irclog2html for #bzflag on 20051224

00:04.26devstertrepan: same with 2.6.13.4
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00:30.05devsteri was pointing out that 2.6.13.4 has problems as well incase people think its only 2.6.12
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02:33.42orchidciao Tupone
02:33.49Tuponeciao :)
02:33.53Tuponecome stai ?
02:34.02orchidgreat
02:34.17TuponeI'm happy for you :)
02:34.28orchidyou don't seem sleep anymore? :)
02:34.41Tuponelol. Back from the club
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06:45.45SportChickany gu admins here?
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10:31.43stahlsaumoin
10:35.37ToughShooterstahlsau: Do you have time for a funmatch on GU?
10:35.53sniperyydToughShooter: where is GU?
10:35.54sniperyyd:P
10:36.14stahlsauToughShooter: nope, not atm
10:36.28ToughShootersniperyyd: You aren't even in the GU league so you can't even talk
10:36.30stahlsauToughShooter: too much xmas-stuff here ;/
10:36.36sniperyydhehe
10:36.38ToughShooterstahlsau: k :(
10:36.38stahlsau^lol
10:36.42sniperyydToughShooter: want 1v1?
10:36.56ToughShooternope
10:37.00sniperyyddub?
11:07.04sniperyydTS: remember me?
11:07.16sniperyydToughShooter: remember me?
11:10.45sniperyydfor example, if i want 5 reds 5 blues and 3 observers how do i set it with -mp ?
11:12.57sniperyyd~man bzfs
11:13.01ibotman bzfs is, like, http://my.bzflag.org/bzfman.cgi?bzfs.6s
11:16.40sniperyyd~bzfquery cristi.brite.ro:5154
11:16.51sniperyyd:))
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12:32.05sussihi
12:32.41sussisaturos called me on dub:5154 was a cheater callsign cheater he could fly
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14:16.41Pimpiwasn't there a possibility to use a file as input for servermessage?
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14:41.25sniperyydPimpi: you host the 1v1 servers?
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15:20.28williyiyyiy
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15:25.32wewewe<PROTECTED>
15:25.57blast007um...you might want to check your address  :)
15:26.17blast007that's a strange blend between a hostname and your local IP address
15:26.37weweweok?
15:26.53wewewebzfquery bzflag.192.168.1.102:5145
15:26.59blast007your IP is actually 68.198.130.63
15:27.05wewewe????
15:27.11weweweyour kkidding
15:27.14blast007no
15:27.34blast007you want the IP of your internet connection, not your local LAN IP address
15:27.42weweweaye
15:28.16wewewebzfquey bzflag.68.198.130.63:5145
15:28.29wewewe~bzfquey bzflag.68.198.130.63:5145
15:28.30blast007~bzfquery 68.198.130.63:5154
15:28.38blast007don't put the bzflag. on there
15:28.47weweweok
15:28.55wewewe~bzfquery 68.198.130.63:5154
15:29.02blast007and it's also unlikely that you opened/forwarded the port to your local machine
15:29.09wewewe.....
15:29.12weweweto much
15:29.28weweweill just forget about it i gues....
15:29.35blast007:)
15:29.39wewewecya
15:29.42blast007bye
15:37.43Ice_Wewebah
15:37.55Ice_Wewemy teleporters will transport tanks, but not shots, which is all I want them to do
15:38.10Ice_Wewehow come the ones on Viper repel shots, but mine wont? :'(
15:41.06blast007aren't they just teleporters linked to the same side?
15:41.50Ice_Weweblast007: yes, but mine aren't working
15:41.59Ice_Weweblast007: want the map code so you can try it?
15:42.32Ice_Weweblast007: http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/34795
15:43.46blast007nah, I don't do maps  ;)
15:44.00sniperyydIce_Wewe: i will look at it lil bit
15:45.45Ice_Weweblast007: just check it to make sure it rebounds your shots... please?
15:45.47Ice_Wewesniperyyd: ok, thanks
15:46.00sniperyydIce_Wewe: but, what means from 8 to 8 ?
15:46.09sniperyydcus im new to linx
15:46.16sniperyydi do them with Bzedit32
15:47.31Ice_Wewesniperyyd: I do it with bzfed, the linux equiv
15:47.49sniperyydi see
15:47.58Ice_Wewesniperyyd: that means that the tele _should_ transport the tank/shot from the same side that it came from
15:48.01sniperyydwait a minute to see if i can save it in a file and open with BZedit win32
15:48.04Ice_Wewesorta like shooting at a wall
15:48.19Ice_Weweit should open in bzedit with no problems
15:48.21sniperyydok
15:48.41Ice_Weweall the extra stuff bzfed adds is commented out, so bzedit wont read it as data.
15:50.33sniperyydi know
15:50.39sniperyydi can view it with bzedit
15:50.55sniperyydmhm... there should be no problems..
15:51.04sniperyydanyway im a beginner mapmaker.
15:51.05sniperyyd;P
15:51.27sniperyydyou should ask viper
15:51.35sniperyydmaybe he knows..
15:55.36Ice_Wewe*groan*
15:55.46Ice_Weweviper is a server, not a person (as far as I know)
16:04.40gsneddersviper is a person
16:04.43gsnedderswho made the map
16:05.05gsnedderstherefore it is called "Viper's Two Castles"
16:05.18gsneddersviper hasn't been around in ages anyway
16:05.35gsneddersthe original two castles was done in bzedit
16:05.54gsneddersbut i think when Pimpi redid it for BZflag 2.0 he did it by hand
16:06.17gsnedders_Manu_, Pimpi, am I correct?
16:31.40ToughShooterI think the viper map playable today is the new new viper ;)
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16:40.35gsneddersToughShooter: as in Viper's modifications on 1.10?
16:44.11Pimpigsnedders: you're right. there's no usable gui tool to make maps. i've seen some commits for a  new version of bzedit, but i have no idea if it works at all until now
16:45.22gsneddersPimpi: and I don't know about bzedit because I really don't think it''ll run well on an emulated Pentium 2 :)
16:45.27Pimpii rewrote Two Castles from scratch and by hand
16:45.44Pimpimaybe ;)
16:45.53gsneddershow did you mange to get it all in exactly the same place?
16:46.07gsneddershours of looking through the bzedit code?
16:48.30Pimpino, i had the old map, the locations where in there
16:48.49Pimpibut yes, bzedit leaves a whole mess
16:49.07Pimpiit took me a while rebuilding everything
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16:49.22Pimpiseveral hours
16:52.40gsneddersfun....
16:53.26*** join/#bzflag tom99 (n=5338d52b@webchat.bzflag.bz)
16:53.30tom99hi
16:53.46blast007hello
16:53.56tom99is this the tank game irc?
16:54.09blast007yup
16:54.09tom99i'm thiking on installing it
16:54.27tom99is it easy to play to otherS?
16:54.50tom99i mean configure the net and all the stuff
16:55.13blast007yeah, the process is fairly simple
16:55.43blast007there's a built-in method for fetching a list of servers, and they show some settings about the server, and how many players are on
16:55.56tom99is it really cool and adictive or just a plain freeware game?
16:56.26tom99my experience with freeware games is not so good, i mean
16:56.30blast007the graphics don't compare to commercial quality games of the day, but the gameplay is very addicting
16:56.36tom99think commercial games are much better
16:56.37blast007fast paced game
16:57.36tom99ok. gameplay is more important than great graphics in a poor gameplay
16:57.47tom99any other freeware games recommended?
16:58.53tom99i'm also  looking ata scorched 3d
17:00.36JeffM2501they are very different
17:01.29Ice_Wewedoes BattleField 1942 have a linux version? I only have the Windows version that came with my video card.
17:01.35Ice_Weweand wine wont play it :'(
17:01.41tom99I'm just tired of playin chess, and other small games
17:01.52tom99and wanna some different, adictive
17:01.55Ice_Wewetom99: flightgear
17:02.09tom99yea, and i'm testing on my linux box
17:02.20tom99so, no windows.
17:02.37tom99I know windows has much more background on games
17:03.02tom99but linux is getting well too, don't you think so?
17:03.12Ice_Wewetom99: Unreal Tournament has a linux binary, its currently broken though. Some idiot uploaded an incomplete archive
17:03.17Ice_Wewetom99: there is Doom
17:04.22tom99yeah, but i got tired to play doom & quake over windows
17:04.45tom99may be some mixed strategy-action game would be cool
17:04.58Ice_Wewetuxracer?
17:05.06Ice_WeweUT2004?
17:05.08tom99and of course testing it on linux gives me more excitement
17:05.13Ice_Wewethose aren't exciting?
17:05.35tom99tuxracer is the penguin over the snow mountains isnt it?
17:05.42Ice_Wewe*sigh* some times I wish linux were more like Windows. Point, click, install, work. I get tired of having to configure _everything_
17:05.47tom99UT2004? dont' know it
17:05.56Ice_Wewetom99: you are technically correct, the best kind of correct
17:06.01Ice_Wewetom99: ohhh, it's FUN!
17:06.12Ice_Wewetom99: Unreal Tournament has a linux binary, its currently broken though. Some idiot uploaded an incomplete archive
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17:06.50Ice_Wewelinux doesn't have enough games.
17:06.54Ice_Wewe:'(
17:06.57tom99ok,  i'll try this tank thing, and i'll see
17:07.03tom99yeah, i image it
17:07.05gsneddersthe idiot is the guy who on his own ports it to mac and linux
17:07.24Ice_Wewegsnedders: no, it's the company that makes it, they support all three OS's
17:07.33tom99but i thought linux is coming with more games
17:07.39blast007some linux ports: http://www.icculus.org/
17:07.49Ice_Wewetom99: it depends on what kind of games you want to play
17:07.56gsneddersIce_Wewe: the guy works for Epic
17:07.59tom99any type
17:08.05gsneddersand he's the only one doing the porting
17:08.09Ice_Wewetom99: linux is the owner of more boring games than Windows and Mac put together
17:08.16Ice_Wewegsnedders: really? hmmm
17:08.28tom99i was looking for any type, especially multiplayer
17:08.31gsneddersIce_Wewe: he also does the  ports of America's Army
17:08.38gsneddersall on his own
17:08.43tom99i mean, not playing agisnt the machine only
17:09.05blast007tom99: there's some tron games, but I'm not sure how well they work online
17:09.07gsneddersAmerica's Army. there's another suggestion
17:09.12tom99i have more fun playing to others and
17:09.17gsneddersi don't llike it that much any more though
17:09.22tom99talking to them also
17:09.28tom99that is more fun
17:09.37gsneddersas blast007 heard me say in #dotgeek
17:09.40tom99you kill someone and then call him asshole
17:09.51tom99that's fun
17:09.55blast007:)
17:10.29Ice_Wewegsnedders: I can't find a link to the download, only to patches, mind telling me where he's hidden it?
17:10.39gsnedderswhat game?
17:10.44Ice_Wewegsnedders: UT2004
17:10.52gsneddersUT2004 is retail
17:10.55gsneddersnot free
17:11.02blast007Wolfenstein ET is free, right?
17:11.38gsneddershttp://www.unrealtournament.com/ut2004/downloads.php - there's a linux demo there
17:11.39Ice_Wewegsnedders: oh, right
17:11.50Ice_Wewegsnedders: it's busted, file ends early... doesn't work
17:11.56gsneddersah
17:12.42Ice_WeweO.O 282mb demo, not this month....
17:13.00gsnedderschrist.
17:13.10gsneddersluckily the mac one is only 58.6
17:13.10tom99about bzflag
17:13.21tom99is there a linux bunary?
17:13.24tom99where?
17:13.29gsneddersnot  a recent one
17:13.30blast007what distro?
17:13.34Ice_Wewegsnedders: it's busted, the real one is the same size as the windows demo
17:13.42Ice_Wewegsnedders: they're all 270+ mb
17:13.56tom99red hat 9
17:13.58Ice_Weweoh god!
17:14.22Ice_Weweforget it, your libs and everything probably have to much dust on them for BZFlag to find them... hehe
17:14.46tom99what you mean? mines are old?
17:14.48Ice_Wewetom99: if you're gonna try linux, at least try a half decent version
17:15.10Ice_Wewetom99: they have Fedora Core 4 out! (that's like the equiv to about RH 13 or 14)
17:15.23tom99ok, I see
17:15.36Ice_Wewedownload and install a decent version, then get back to us
17:15.56tom99but do the game really take profit of the new libs
17:16.02Ice_Wewetom99: yes...
17:16.06A_MeteoriteGentoo!!
17:16.06tom99rH9 is fine
17:16.46tom99what c   features do Bzflag uses not presente in libstdc  5
17:16.59tom99come on
17:17.18tom99and does it needs more than openGL 1.2
17:17.19tom99?
17:17.25tom99coem on
17:17.31A_MeteoriteBZFlag uses SDL 1.2, AFAIK
17:17.33tom99if graphics are not cool
17:17.46tom99it wont have cg sahders
17:17.49A_Meteoriteit might use ogl
17:17.55tom99or openGL sahde lang
17:18.11A_Meteoriteummm
17:18.12gsneddersogl, IIRC
17:18.27A_Meteoriteoh, yes
17:18.36A_Meteoriteogl for graphics
17:18.41A_Meteoritebut you need sdl too
17:18.48tom99i see
17:19.12tom99but games binaries should come with what it needs
17:19.15A_Meteoritethe most recent gcc should compile just fine
17:19.39A_MeteoriteI find it always better to compile myself. :)
17:19.42blast007you could try it anyway, at least building it
17:19.57A_Meteoriteit should work out-of-the-box with a binary
17:20.00A_MeteoriteI think
17:20.23tom99i'll give it a try, but don't wanna compile every game i try
17:20.38tom99its kind of a philosofy
17:20.41A_Meteoritewell, try a binary first
17:20.50A_Meteoritethere is an OBLISK package
17:21.00A_Meteoriteworked for me while on Ubuntu
17:21.01tom99don't mind compile it, guess libraries, download them
17:21.23A_Meteoriteyou just need sdl-devel, and it should work
17:21.29tom99but i think is a bad philosofy to get people involved with games on linux
17:21.38A_Meteoritelol
17:21.50tom99i mean non -tech people
17:22.17A_Meteoriteit's there for people who know how to use it ;)
17:22.38tom99the games binaries should come with the libraries they use
17:22.50A_Meteoritethey do, AFAIK
17:23.00tom99otherwise, just leave the source code
17:23.52blast007they don't 'come with' typically, unless it's a static build
17:23.54A_Meteoriteoh, you get more performance by getting the latest (2.0.5)
17:24.09blast007it's more common to let the package manager do the dependency checking, and have it automatically download extra libraries
17:24.10A_MeteoriteI got 10% on average more FPS
17:24.12tom99but the last for bzflag in i586 is 1.10.6
17:24.28A_Meteoritethen you got a distro with old packages
17:24.43A_Meteoritewe're up to 2.0.4 (official)
17:24.47A_Meteoritewhat are you using?
17:25.21tom99this confuses me
17:25.37tom99there are binaries for different distros
17:25.38A_Meteorite1.10.6 is an old version
17:25.50A_Meteoritewhat distro are you using?
17:26.06A_MeteoriteSlack, SuSE, Fedora?
17:26.07tom99rh9
17:26.10A_Meteoriteoh
17:26.33A_Meteoritewell, my experience with rh is they use old packages
17:26.43tom99there is a rh8  for gcc3
17:26.50tom99version 2.0.0
17:26.52A_Meteoriteget the oblisk package
17:27.04A_Meteoritehttp://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/suparun/bzflag-2.0.4.20050930-i386-Opkg.tar.gz?download
17:27.11A_Meteoriteit'll work most likely
17:27.16A_Meteoriteit always worked for me
17:27.30A_Meteoriteyou need glic2.3
17:27.56A_Meteoritethere is an executable binary in that package
17:27.58A_Meteorite./bzflag
17:28.14tom99ok, gonna try it
17:28.17A_Meteoritek
17:28.40tom99but still don't know why people build things for differtent distros
17:28.57A_Meteoriteheh
17:29.08A_Meteoritesome distros place files in different spots
17:29.09blast007well, each distro has their package manager, and some have specific quirks that need to be accounted for
17:29.21tom99afaik, it would be enough to build things with libc   X, SDL Y, etc..
17:30.14tom99and then you just set paths
17:30.23tom99for dependecnies
17:31.19blast007not all distros have the same libs
17:31.28tom99really?
17:31.34tom99what you mean?
17:31.39blast007different versions
17:31.40tom99apart from the version
17:31.51A_Meteoritethey don't have one standard "package"
17:31.51blast007and not all provide a specific version yet
17:31.56A_Meteoritesome come with more then others
17:32.07tom99yeah, but that happens with different version of same distro
17:32.17blast007and then you have different system architectures, like x86_64, ppc, etc
17:32.31tom99yeah, that makes sense
17:32.43tom99but not different for rh, suse, etc...
17:32.47blast007but the same distro can provide a binary linked to their version of the library
17:32.57tom99that does not make sense form me
17:32.58blast007and update their library if they need
17:33.13tom99mmm
17:33.41tom99but that makes it really complicated for the people who have to build all the combinations
17:33.59tom99it would be better to give just a tar.gz
17:34.17tom99for versions of libs and arquitectures, but just that
17:34.28blast007if only it worked that way  :)
17:34.51tom99that would be easier
17:35.04tom99for maintenance
17:35.33blast007some distros put in their own patches when security holes are found, until an official patch is released
17:36.53tom99but my opinion is that it should not be so hard to get a freeware game running on X configuration of your distro
17:37.16blast007it really isn't :)
17:37.35tom99ok
17:37.59tom99would your granma do it?
17:38.20A_Meteoriteyes, just get the oblisk package and all is done
17:38.23A_Meteorite;)
17:38.30blast007my grandma has a hard time programming the TV  :)
17:38.36A_Meteoritelol!
17:38.46A_Meteorite*VCR
17:38.47A_Meteorite;)
17:38.51blast007no, the TV
17:38.55A_Meteoritewoah
17:38.57A_Meteoritethat's bad
17:38.58blast007sometimes it magically gets in Spanish
17:39.07A_Meteorite...
17:39.31A_Meteoritethey just need to add touch screens to programming menus
17:39.35A_Meteorite:D
17:39.48tom99that's waht i mean
17:39.51blast007or a reset button
17:39.57A_Meteoriteeven better
17:40.11tom99if it is so easy, my granma should be able to run Bzflag without help
17:40.14A_Meteoriteuntil you accidently sit on the remote and *reset!*
17:40.32tom99and not so sure she would be able
17:40.34blast007anyway, install cURL, SDL, and ncurses dev libraries, download/extract the bzflag source, run ./autogen.sh, ./configure, and make
17:40.40A_Meteoriteand all those hours you spent putting the time in would be wasted
17:41.03A_Meteorite(btw, what grandma would play bzflag?)
17:41.07A_Meteorite:P
17:41.21tom99what happens to grandmas? cant' they?
17:41.51A_Meteoritethey *could* but I can't imagine one wanting to play a tank game
17:41.56blast007"You got zapped by Grandma's laser"
17:42.02A_MeteoriteLOL!
17:43.41tom99ok, lets get the binary and i'll tell you
17:43.47A_Meteoritek :)
17:44.04tom99my granma will be happy
17:46.41tom99how do i check the version of my libgc
17:47.02A_Meteoriteummm
17:47.10A_Meteoriteit should work just fine with that binary
17:47.18A_Meteoritejust try it first :)
17:47.32A_Meteoritebrb
17:47.34tom99yeah, but i wanna know it. Just general culture
17:48.54A_Meteoriteback
17:49.21A_Meteoritewell, I would open your package manager and search for "libgc" and see what it says :)
17:49.30A_Meteoriteawww... got to do dishes
17:49.32A_Meteoritebb in a bit
17:52.02tom99ok. thanks
17:52.10tom99my try with the binary is this:
17:52.34tom99[root@linux bzflag-2.0.4.20050930-i386-Opkg]# ./Install./bin/bzfs: /lib/libgcc_s.so.1: version `GCC_3.3' not found (required by ./bin/bzfs)--18:50:48--  http://gsff.codu.org/getsffile.php?file=i386-/curl-7.14.1.tar.gz           => `curl-7.14.1.tar.gz'Resolving gsff.codu.org... done.Connecting to gsff.codu.org[212.118.243.115]:80... connected.HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 302 FoundLocation: http://www.codu.org/getsffile.php?file=i386-/curl-7.14
17:54.01Ice_Wewenext time you paste that much, make SURE to do it at bzflag.pastebin.ca
17:54.16tom99ok, sorry
17:55.18tom99it seems tha package can't download: Could not download library libcurl.so.3.
17:55.57A_Meteoriteback, so glad my mom washes them and I just have to take care of them :)
17:56.25A_Meteoritehmmm
17:56.39A_Meteoritewhat about just "./bzflag"?
17:56.47A_Meteorite(without quotes of course ;) )
17:57.12tom99same hing
17:57.17tom99thing i mean
17:57.25A_Meteoriteyou might have to get cURL and cURL-devel through your package manager
17:57.30A_Meteorite:(
17:58.00tom99what i was running is the oblisk pacakeg isnt' it?
17:58.22A_Meteoritewell, apparently is doesn't include the libs needed
17:58.30A_Meteoriteif you had them it would work :)
17:58.34tom99that is supposed to download automatically libs
17:58.59A_Meteoriteyou did this command, correct?
17:59.00A_Meteorite./Install./bin/bzfs
17:59.15A_Meteoritethat seems not right
17:59.24tom99no, i did ./Install
17:59.25blast007also, it said your libgcc is too old
17:59.28A_Meteoriteheh
17:59.39A_Meteoritegcc4 is the latest :P
17:59.55A_Meteoritebut it has some bugs with BZFlag and other hardware
17:59.56blast007no, it was wanting 3.3
18:00.03A_Meteoriteyes, get 3.3
18:00.12tom99yeah, ask for gcc3.3
18:00.25tom99and starts getting curl
18:00.43A_Meteoritebut it should of got cURL
18:00.45tom99libcurl.3
18:00.50tom99but fails
18:00.51A_Meteorite302 FoundLocation sounds like it got it
18:01.23tom99its empty
18:01.28A_MeteoriteLOL!
18:01.49A_Meteoritewell... you could always do the dreadful compile
18:01.54tom99it fails getting it from osdn.dl.sourceforge.net
18:02.01tom99yeah, i know
18:02.02A_Meteoriteyou wouldn't have access to a Windows or Mac box?
18:02.13tom99that's what i wanted to avoid
18:02.16A_Meteoritehehe
18:02.26blast007orchid :)
18:02.27A_Meteoritebye orchird!
18:02.29tom99yeah, i have 4 machines
18:02.48tom99but wanted to paly around linux
18:02.53A_Meteoriteahh
18:03.03A_Meteoriteyou will need to get the right libs for sure
18:03.12tom99w2000, wXp, MacOsX, linuxRH9
18:03.14A_MeteoriteI would open your package manager and search for:
18:03.17A_Meteoritecurl
18:03.20A_Meteoritecurl-devel
18:03.23A_Meteoritesdl
18:03.26A_Meteoritesdl-devel
18:03.31A_Meteoriteand all other sdl
18:03.37tom99i'm not famirialize with my package manager
18:03.39A_Meteoriteoh
18:03.44A_Meteoriteget apt-get :)
18:03.44JeffM2501sdl dev will install the packages you need
18:03.49A_Meteoritek
18:03.51tom99just tried something the other day but didn't work
18:03.55JeffM2501what distro are you on?
18:03.56blast007do they use yum in rh9?
18:03.56A_Meteoritebut you also need the latest gcc
18:04.09tom99i use rpm command when i need something
18:04.14blast007JeffM2501: they're using RH9
18:04.17JeffM2501eww
18:04.19blast007yeah
18:04.25JeffM2501not good on the dependencys
18:04.28A_Meteoriteyeah
18:04.33JeffM2501ubantuu
18:04.36A_Meteoriterpm -uvh right?
18:04.53tom99sorry?
18:05.06A_Meteoritethat's the command you use?
18:05.51blast007http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-9-Manual/custom-guide/part-pkg-management.html
18:06.17JeffM2501ubantuu
18:06.26A_Meteoriteor even apt-get
18:06.34A_MeteoriteI've had good experience with it
18:06.36JeffM2501ubantuu
18:06.40A_Meteorite(and it's for other distros too!!)
18:06.47tom99i used to start it fron KDE menu
18:07.15blast007http://www.ubuntulinux.org/
18:07.27JeffM2501yeah what he said
18:07.31blast007;)
18:07.36JeffM2501rh9 is way old
18:07.40A_Meteoriteyes
18:07.49A_Meteoritecan you upgrade rh9 to fc4?
18:07.54tom99ubantuu & apt-get don't exist
18:08.06A_Meteoritefc is based off of rh
18:08.12tom99i used rpm -Uvh (U capital)
18:08.14JeffM2501fc sucks
18:08.17A_Meteoritelol
18:08.27A_Meteoritebut he may not want to upgrade
18:08.29JeffM2501debian based is the way to go
18:08.33A_Meteoriteand back up all his files
18:08.36JeffM2501why would one NOT want to upgrade
18:08.40A_Meteoriteand back up all his files
18:08.42A_Meteoritethat's why
18:08.49tom99but i shouldn't need to upgrade to fc4
18:08.54JeffM2501"no, I don't want my computer to run faster and be more stable"
18:09.02A_Meteoriteor can someone "transgrade" to other distros
18:09.12JeffM2501you don't have to upgrade, but it's a lot easyer to build when you have a real package manager
18:09.14A_Meteoritego from one to another without wiping the disk?
18:09.21JeffM2501A_Meteorite, a distro is just a set of software
18:09.30A_MeteoriteI know
18:09.45tom99what is the name of my packaeg manager?
18:09.45A_Meteoritebut it usually makes or breaks the Linux experience
18:09.49A_Meteoriteyum probably
18:09.51JeffM2501rpm
18:09.53A_Meteoritelol
18:10.05A_Meteoritewait
18:10.07JeffM2501don't think rh9 has yum
18:10.08A_Meteoriteyum is SuSE?
18:10.13A_Meteorite*sigh*
18:10.15JeffM2501yum is on many
18:10.17tom99no, the appis other
18:10.21JeffM2501fc has yum
18:10.30A_Meteoritethought so
18:11.19tom99rh9 call it in the menu "Add/Remove apps"
18:11.25*** join/#bzflag marines (n=18dae8d5@webchat.bzflag.bz)
18:11.26A_Meteoriteme too
18:11.27tom99but wanna know its real name
18:11.38A_Meteoritehope you guys can figure this out
18:11.42A_Meteoritegood luck, tom99!
18:12.31tom99its name is /usr/bin/redhat-config-packages
18:12.47tom99but sucks
18:12.53tom99prefer rpm command
18:14.35*** join/#bzflag silverfox (i=vircuser@68-116-47-254.static.mdfd.or.charter.com)
18:23.32tom99<PROTECTED>
18:24.07blast007well, you need to download the RPMs first, then use their filename
18:24.21blast007which is why you should get a real distro
18:24.45tom99you mean in next releases it gets the packaeg automatically?
18:24.53blast007(then again, slackware isn't much better in that regard)
18:25.14tom99but rh9 is not that old...
18:25.20blast007yes it is
18:25.27tom992 years
18:25.32tom99no more
18:26.02blast007right..that's old
18:26.17tom99oh, come on
18:26.36tom99then pdp-11 is a tyranosaurus
18:27.42tom99but doesn't rpm command download the package for you?
18:28.15blast007I don't use RPM based distros, but I don't think it does
18:28.50blast007it's more like slackware's installpkg command I think
18:30.05blast007but yeah, most new distros provide a package manager with search abilities, and dependency tracking
18:30.30tom99do they work well?
18:30.36tom99I'm kind of skeptic
18:30.37blast007and gentoo downloads the source for everything, and builds it
18:30.59tom99i think always you have to play around with shell
18:31.10blast007I use slackware, so my package manager isn't so hot, but it works for me right now
18:31.30blast007I have an addon called slackpkg that provides search and auto-download functionality
18:32.08tom99but what happens if the lib you need is not in the server is searchin foir?
18:32.41blast007well, that's why distros have their own packages
18:32.55tom99i'm looking for curl-7.14.1.tar.gz
18:32.57blast007and if you're building from source, it will use the onese you have
18:33.00blast007ones*
18:33.03tom99for rh9, but its not there
18:33.11blast007(if they are new enough)
18:33.23blast007find a site with RPM packages for RH9
18:33.37*** join/#bzflag marines (n=18dae8d5@webchat.bzflag.bz)
18:33.41*** join/#bzflag Birdie (n=Birdie__@d54C34DE9.access.telenet.be)
18:33.43tom99but the new package managers build the source for you?
18:33.53blast007gentoo's does
18:34.02tom99oh, really?
18:34.09tom99people told me about gentoo
18:34.15blast007but they use whatever source they have in their repository, so not always the newest
18:34.21tom99but also is tough at first
18:34.22blast007the newest you would compile yourself anyway
18:34.32tom99i see
18:34.34blast007yeah, it's not the most intuitive distro...
18:34.50blast007no fancy graphical installer yet  :)
18:35.06tom99cant' I get the rpm for fedora and run it on rh9?
18:35.20tom99for curl i mena
18:35.21Ice_Wewetom99: no
18:35.25blast007I try to avoid that kind of stuff
18:35.35tom99it will tell me it needs x,y libs versions
18:35.48tom99thats what you mean ho?
18:36.01blast007last time I tried getting slackware 10.2 packages for slackware 9, it hosed up my system pretty good
18:36.27tom99this is a pain in the ass
18:36.45tom99curl site has a 7.12.3 curl binary
18:37.05tom99but for bzflag i need 7.14
18:37.24blast007they also have curl source code
18:37.31blast0077.15.1
18:37.44tom99yeah, but this leads to previous thing
18:38.11tom99al last, it should be better get every source code and do a whole compile
18:38.44blast007strange that they have a RH7.2 lib with the latest version
18:39.05tom99hold on
18:39.11tom99there is a linux generic rpm
18:39.45tom99oh, its source
18:40.03blast007anyways, good luck  ;)
18:40.49tom99yeah, i think i'll play chess on pogo
18:41.07tom99i just had to upgrade the jvm
18:44.27tom99life sucks
18:48.26*** join/#bzflag ToughShooter (n=ts@p54B04444.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
18:55.23*** join/#bzflag silverfx (n=vircuser@68-116-47-254.static.mdfd.or.charter.com)
19:13.10*** part/#bzflag ToughShooter (n=ts@p54B04444.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
19:14.46*** join/#bzflag ToughShooter (n=ts@p54B04444.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
20:01.08*** join/#bzflag wegstar (n=wegstar@allegro/user/wegstar)
20:02.52*** join/#bzflag stahlsau_ (n=stahlsau@kob9-d9bd9ac7.pool.mediaWays.net)
20:36.35*** join/#bzflag CBG (n=CBG@cpc2-stme1-5-1-cust130.cdif.cable.ntl.com)
20:46.25*** join/#bzflag bz6760 (n=54a6b28c@webchat.bzflag.bz)
20:47.40bz6760~bzfquery flaxmeyer.dyndns.org
21:07.01gsnedders~bzfquery viper.pimpi.org:5158
21:32.42ToughShooterHmm, bdotson seems to be cheating at blah.pl bzflag.blah.pl:5257
21:33.07ToughShooterAny admin for that server here?
21:49.04*** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=neo@host-84-220-18-212.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)
21:54.53*** join/#bzflag BinarySpike (n=BinarySp@206-113-022-139.plateautel.net)
21:55.46BinarySpike*pin drop*
21:55.55blast007*pin catch*
21:56.05BinarySpikeHeya
21:56.21blast007:)
21:56.37BinarySpikeHow do I mess around with scoring?
21:57.10blast007like how? modifying how scoring takes place on the server-side?
21:57.18BinarySpikeLike can I make a command /givepoints <number> and it gives me that amount of points?
21:57.41blast007you can't in 2.0.x
21:57.56BinarySpikedurn... well so much for that idea...
21:59.02BinarySpikeHmmm... wait!
21:59.10BinarySpikeCan I use the rabbit scorring for my idea? I wanted to make a tag style game
22:00.24BinarySpikeYou can only make points by shooting the IT and if he shoots you you have to shoot somebody else (you can't make points as the IT)
22:02.05Birdieany idea how big the files may be to send a mail with hotmail? or is there no limit?
22:02.32BinarySpikeattachment? probably not over 5MB on Hotmail
22:03.00BinarySpike5MB-15MB is usual
22:07.40BinarySpikedoes bzflag use BSD sockets on all systems?
22:19.20BinarySpikenvm...
22:19.27*** part/#bzflag BinarySpike (n=BinarySp@206-113-022-139.plateautel.net)
22:35.39*** join/#bzflag bz1775 (n=d5fcdd3e@webchat.bzflag.bz)
22:49.06*** join/#bzflag PSPWewe (n=d86a6517@webchat.bzflag.bz)
22:52.04*** join/#bzflag CBG (n=CBG@cpc2-stme1-5-1-cust130.cdif.cable.ntl.com)
23:07.10*** join/#bzflag gina (n=g@52.219-200-80.adsl.skynet.be)
23:09.17*** join/#bzflag CBG (n=CBG@cpc2-stme1-5-1-cust130.cdif.cable.ntl.com)
23:33.25*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501)
23:33.25*** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ
23:37.32*** join/#bzflag bz4625 (n=53edfe3c@webchat.bzflag.bz)
23:37.59bz4625test
23:38.10BearPersontset
23:38.17bz4625its amazing how good this cgi web interface is, i usually hate nweb interfaces for chat
23:38.36*** join/#bzflag sonnentier (n=andreas@ppp83-237-254-60.pppoe.mtu-net.ru)
23:38.38JeffM2501they all suck in some way
23:38.43bz4625yes
23:38.53BearPersoncompared to a decent IRC client, it's nothing
23:38.55bz4625but the one that is used by bzflag is the best i ever saw
23:39.00bz4625true
23:39.03JeffM2501it's just cgirc
23:39.09JeffM2501standard perl irc thingy
23:39.32bz4625ok
23:39.45bz4625test
23:39.51bz4625but pretty fast
23:39.59bz4625its good for a web interface
23:40.14sonnentieris there a possibility to have jumping bots?
23:40.40BearPersoncheck the configure message ;-)
23:40.57BearPerson"Looking for artificial intelligence for BZ's robots... not found."
23:40.58sonnentierwhat?
23:41.01sonnentieryes
23:41.02sonnentierok
23:41.05sonnentieri read that
23:41.09JeffM2501the bot logic is limited
23:41.12JeffM2501they don't do much
23:41.13sonnentierok
23:41.21JeffM2501the autopilot will jump but the normal bot isn't that smart
23:41.37sonnentierthe autopilot doesnt jump intelligent..
23:41.44sonnentierjust auto
23:41.46JeffM2501nope it dosn't
23:41.50sonnentierbut ok
23:42.03JeffM2501the logic is not that complex
23:42.09sonnentierno..
23:42.11JeffM2501you are more then welcome to make it smarter
23:42.20sonnentierhiw complex ist it for bots in games like quake3?
23:42.26JeffM2501very
23:42.34JeffM2501they are often applications and projects in there own
23:42.47sonnentierok
23:42.53sonnentieri cant help out making thr bots smarter,.,
23:43.07JeffM2501thr?
23:43.16sonnentierthe
23:43.19JeffM2501are the vowel keys sticky on your computer?
23:43.21sonnentiermisstyping all the time sorry
23:43.27sonnentiera bit
23:45.12sonnentierthe bots are good if you dont play with jumping, but with they have no chance..
23:45.31JeffM2501they were never designed to be a replacement for a human
23:45.52sonnentierwere they designed to train, or to test the game?
23:46.32JeffM2501I think they were thrown in to just help with debug testing initaly
23:46.37JeffM2501just to drive around and do "stuff"
23:46.43sonnentierreal human is always better especially on a LAN..
23:46.44JeffM2501every so often somone makes them a little better
23:46.51sonnentierok
23:46.58JeffM2501noone is a game AI guru
23:47.30sonnentierok
23:48.00*** part/#bzflag bz4625 (n=53edfe3c@webchat.bzflag.bz)
23:50.41purple_cowJeffM2501: naw, i think there's a surprising amount of AI knowledge here
23:50.47purple_cowit's just nobody wants to do it because it's dumb
23:50.52JeffM2501heh
23:51.00JeffM2501so very true
23:51.11sonnentier^^
23:51.21JeffM2501it's not an oft used feature
23:51.23sonnentieri cant do it because i am to dumb hehe
23:51.28sonnentiertrue
23:51.30JeffM2501then learn more
23:51.33sonnentierok
23:51.44JeffM2501there is a gneral apathy with things bzflag of late it seems
23:51.59JeffM2501purple_cow, isn't it time for me to get all huffy and quit again?
23:52.10purple_cowJeffM2501: about then, i think
23:52.24purple_cowyou haven't really been doing a whole lot of bzflag stuff though
23:52.32Patlabor221like that matters
23:52.33Patlabor221:)
23:52.34purple_cowhehe
23:52.51Patlabor221well tim did realy tick me off last year
23:54.38BearPersonlooks like we need to invest some time into cheat protection again :-/
23:54.48Patlabor221again?
23:54.57Patlabor221as in there was a time when it was not needed?
23:55.00Patlabor221it's xmass break
23:55.03Patlabor221i'll pass
23:55.17BearPersonthere once were some anticheats for 1.10 that weren't ported to 2.0
23:55.19Patlabor221tis the seaon to go global reg :)
23:55.19sonnentiercheaters..
23:55.45Patlabor221if there is anything in 1.10 that isn't in 2.0 it is because it was removed
23:55.45sonnentiersometimes cheater will not die
23:55.55sonnentierdo you have to report the server that you died?
23:55.59Patlabor221that can happen when the client does the death check
23:56.02Patlabor221nope
23:56.03BearPersonyes :-/
23:56.09sonnentierok
23:56.20Patlabor221you don't HAVE to report, that's why cheater can't die
23:56.22BearPersonbzflag is heavily client-side
23:56.27Patlabor221bzflag is a lan game
23:56.36Patlabor2212.2.0 should be better
23:56.39BearPersonserver is basically a hub, no more
23:56.44sonnentier2.2.0?
23:56.46sonnentierok
23:56.48Patlabor221it does a little more then that now
23:56.51Patlabor221but not the major things
23:56.57Patlabor221it dosn't maintain a gamestate
23:57.16BearPersonI'd like to see sortof a "majority vote" thing
23:57.19sonnentiercan you still use some of the old system, which was p2p
23:57.28BearPersonall clients do death checks for all tanks
23:57.33Patlabor221BearPerson, can never trust a cleint
23:57.34Patlabor221ever
23:57.36Patlabor221just the server
23:57.39sonnentieryes
23:57.41Patlabor221any vote system could be leverated
23:57.41BearPersonif more than 50% of them report death, kill the guy
23:57.47Patlabor221why even have the clients do it
23:57.54Patlabor221if you don't trust the server don't play there
23:57.57BearPersonto take load off the server
23:58.02purple_cowleverated?
23:58.02Patlabor221what load?
23:58.09Patlabor221leveraged
23:58.10Patlabor221sorry
23:58.12purple_cowhehe
23:58.22Patlabor221BearPerson, do you know how much time bzflag spends drawing on a client?
23:58.35BearPersonhmm?
23:58.41Patlabor22199.995%
23:58.52Patlabor221so if a server don't have to draw
23:59.02Patlabor221how much time is the gamestate stuff?
23:59.28Patlabor221the server dosn't do it now, not because it is computationaly intensive, it just does it because all the info happens to be client side
23:59.44Patlabor221making a server have a game state takes the same CPU power as a non drawing client
23:59.47sonnentierbut its all sent through the server?
23:59.48Patlabor221aka squat

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