irclog2html for #bzflag on 20051115

`00:00.07`	`gsnedders`	`(you do know who I am)`
`00:00.20`	`brad2901`	`UGM :)`
`00:00.30`	`gsnedders`	`:)`
`00:01.09`	`ruskie`	`:)`
`00:01.18`	`gsnedders`	`ruskie!`
`00:01.21`	`gsnedders`	`late....`
`00:01.26`	`ruskie`	`lol`
`00:01.29`	`ruskie`	`no`
`00:01.30`	`ruskie`	`it's early`
`00:01.32`	`ruskie`	`:)`
`00:01.33`	`gsnedders`	`:)`
`00:01.34`	`ruskie`	`in the day`
`00:02.25`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03timriker * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/ServerStartMenu.cxx: avoid rare buffer overflow`
`00:02.41`	`gsnedders`	`ruskie: what timezone are you in?`
`00:02.45`	`ruskie`	`CET`
`00:03.17`	`gsnedders`	`only CET?`
`00:03.25`	`gsnedders`	`thought you'd be further ahead than that...`
`00:03.25`	`ruskie`	`?`
`00:03.29`	`ruskie`	`lol`
`00:03.34`	`gsnedders`	`quite far east`
`00:03.38`	`ruskie`	`erm`
`00:03.41`	`ruskie`	`now how do you figure that?`
`00:03.42`	`gsnedders`	`CET large timezne`
`00:03.47`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03timriker * 10bzflag/src/scene/Octree.cxx: don't check for undefined define`
`00:03.55`	`ruskie`	`slovenia is below austria...`
`00:04.35`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03timriker * 10bzflag/configure.ac: warn on undefs, ws`
`00:04.39`	`gsnedders`	`i always think it's on the other side of hungary :)`
`00:04.51`	`ruskie`	`hmm that would be slovakia :)`
`00:04.56`	`ruskie`	`and it's above hungary`
`00:04.57`	`ruskie`	`:)`
`00:05.00`	`gsnedders`	`no...`
`00:05.03`	`ruskie`	`and it's still CET iirc`
`00:05.07`	`gsnedders`	`i know where slovakia is :)`
`00:05.21`	`gsnedders`	`just me making up countries :)`
`00:05.29`	`gsnedders`	`moving things around`
`00:05.31`	`gsnedders`	`:)`
`00:07.10`	`ruskie`	`hmmm I wonder how a bzflag world with a pretty decent world map as the terrain would be :)`
`00:08.00`	`gsnedders`	`:)`
`00:08.08`	`gsnedders`	`how about filesize of it?`
`00:08.08`	`ruskie`	`with mountains and stuff`
`00:08.26`	`gsnedders`	`i don't want to imagine...`
`00:08.48`	`ruskie`	`such a map would be rather huge`
`00:08.52`	`ruskie`	`I think 2000+`
`00:09.17`	`gsnedders`	`2000 whats?`
`00:09.27`	`ruskie`	`bzw units :)`
`00:09.36`	`gsnedders`	`:P`
`00:09.45`	`ruskie`	`that was the largest map I saw in bzflag so far`
`00:09.50`	`ruskie`	`some space station thingy`
`00:10.39`	`gsnedders`	`how high is everest?`
`00:10.49`	`ruskie`	`7K km iirc`
`00:10.51`	`ruskie`	`erm`
`00:10.53`	`ruskie`	`7km even`
`00:10.58`	`ruskie`	`sheesh`
`00:11.01`	`ruskie`	`am half asleep`
`00:11.03`	`trepan`	`lasermania is 3000`
`00:11.05`	`gsnedders`	`make the map 7000 units high?`
`00:11.19`	`ruskie`	`ow`
`00:11.28`	`gsnedders`	`at it's highest point`
`00:11.30`	`ruskie`	`no`
`00:11.36`	`ruskie`	`maybe 700`
`00:11.43`	`gsnedders`	`1:10 scale`
`00:12.01`	`ruskie`	`and a way to climb it with a tank :)`
`00:12.10`	`gsnedders`	`2 ways...`
`00:12.17`	`gsnedders`	`the north and south way`
`00:12.22`	`gsnedders`	`just like in reality :)`
`00:12.25`	`ruskie`	`:)`
`00:12.42`	`gsnedders`	`and have a teleporter around the edge of the map`
`00:12.47`	`ruskie`	`yup`
`00:13.26`	`gsnedders`	`637 units east to west`
`00:13.31`	`Tupone`	`8810 meter high iirc`
`00:13.34`	`gsnedders`	`nooo....`
`00:13.47`	`gsnedders`	`1276 east to west`
`00:14.02`	`gsnedders`	`1271 north to south`
`00:14.10`	`gsnedders`	`1:10 seems too small`
`00:14.16`	`gsnedders`	`1:1 would be better`
`00:14.22`	`ruskie`	`not to me...`
`00:14.28`	`ruskie`	`1:10 should be more than enough`
`00:14.38`	`ruskie`	`maybe even 1:100`
`00:14.42`	`gsnedders`	`oh yeah...`
`00:14.48`	`gsnedders`	`i'm getting my conversions wrong`
`00:14.53`	`gsnedders`	`not converting from km to m :)`
`00:15.14`	`gsnedders`	`1275627 east to west`
`00:15.16`	`gsnedders`	`on 1:10`
`00:15.26`	`ruskie`	`how about 1:100`
`00:15.37`	`gsnedders`	`127562.7`
`00:15.43`	`ruskie`	`still HUGE`
`00:15.51`	`gsnedders`	`1:1000?`
`00:15.52`	`gsnedders`	`12756.27`
`00:16.02`	`ruskie`	`hmmm`
`00:16.04`	`gsnedders`	`i'd say that big to make it seem large enough...`
`00:16.11`	`ruskie`	`true`
`00:16.29`	`gsnedders`	`1275.6 doesn't seem big enough`
`00:16.36`	`ruskie`	`yeah`
`00:16.43`	`ruskie`	`though would need to see`
`00:16.51`	`gsnedders`	`wow...`
`00:16.52`	`ruskie`	`hmmm maybe 2500 would be`
`00:16.55`	`gsnedders`	`who''s going to make it`
`00:17.26`	`ruskie`	`I still need to finish my radarless labyrinth`
`00:17.30`	`gsnedders`	`1:2500 seems good enough`
`00:17.43`	`gsnedders`	`5102.508 east/west`
`00:17.59`	`gsnedders`	`5085.4 north/south`
`00:18.06`	`ruskie`	`meant 2500 east/west`
`00:18.12`	`gsnedders`	`lol`
`00:18.21`	`gsnedders`	`i think 1:2500 is good...`
`00:18.48`	`ruskie`	`hmmm can a bzflag map be non-square?`
`00:18.57`	`gsnedders`	`2500 east/west is 1:5102.508`
`00:19.21`	`ruskie`	`hmmm 5K bzw units is still a rather HUGE thing`
`00:19.34`	`gsnedders`	`2551.254 east/west if 1:5000`
`00:19.41`	`gsnedders`	`round numbers are better...`
`00:20.11`	`gsnedders`	`oh shit...`
`00:20.15`	`ruskie`	`?`
`00:20.17`	`gsnedders`	`i'm doing it wrong...`
`00:20.23`	`ruskie`	`lol`
`00:20.45`	`gsnedders`	`for 2500 we need 1:16030.002`
`00:20.51`	`ruskie`	`lol`
`00:21.11`	`ruskie`	`well 5K should be enough...`
`00:21.32`	`gsnedders`	`for total width?`
`00:21.35`	`ruskie`	`yup`
`00:22.10`	`gsnedders`	`5009.3755 width if 1:8000`
`00:22.11`	`ruskie`	`just need to get ppl to make various parts of the world...`
`00:22.20`	`ruskie`	`in various colours to...`
`00:22.35`	`gsnedders`	`this seems insanely complex`
`00:22.43`	`gsnedders`	`and buildings?`
`00:22.45`	`ruskie`	`no`
`00:22.52`	`ruskie`	`just natural features`
`00:23.03`	`gsnedders`	`version 1 then...`
`00:23.07`	`gsnedders`	`version 2 with buildings`
`00:23.13`	`ruskie`	`lol`
`00:23.29`	`gsnedders`	`who was it who made traffic lights in BZ?`
`00:23.35`	`gsnedders`	`we might need them :)`
`00:23.49`	`ruskie`	`hmmm I'm guessing the height of the stuff would be around the height of the bzflag olympics map...`
`00:24.00`	`ruskie`	`gsnedders, we're not making cities :)`
`00:24.18`	`gsnedders`	`but version 2 with buildings? :D`
`00:24.27`	`ruskie`	`if you realy want`
`00:24.42`	`gsnedders`	`lol!`
`00:24.48`	`gsnedders`	`on 1:8000`
`00:24.57`	`gsnedders`	`everest is just over 1 unit high :D`
`00:25.10`	`ruskie`	`hmmm`
`00:25.50`	`ruskie`	`how about everest 80 units?`
`00:25.59`	`gsnedders`	`1:800?`
`00:26.13`	`ruskie`	`what dimensions that comes to?`
`00:26.22`	`gsnedders`	`50093.755`
`00:26.28`	`ruskie`	`eeeeeekkkkkkkkkk`
`00:26.37`	`gsnedders`	`49925.798`
`00:26.46`	`gsnedders`	`50093.755x49925.798`
`00:26.47`	`ruskie`	`I think that would cause problems...`
`00:26.55`	`gsnedders`	`2GB anyone? :`
`00:26.58`	`gsnedders`	`* :D`
`00:29.34`	`*** join/#bzflag Thumper_ (n=bernt@CPE000102d0fe75-CM0012256ecbde.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`00:29.40`	`gsnedders`	`bye all`
`00:29.46`	`gsnedders`	`bedtime for me`
`00:30.23`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@users.gibbscam.com)`
`00:30.23`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ`
`00:57.33`	`SportChick`	`is there a gu admin on?`
`00:57.45`	`SportChick`	`we have a tk who is quite foul - 100% Norwegian Viking`
`01:11.43`	`I_Died_Once`	`ahh`
`01:11.47`	`I_Died_Once`	`he just left mofo`
`01:12.00`	`I_Died_Once`	`but he wasnt tk'ing there... but there was an admin present`
`01:14.48`	`*** join/#bzflag nitrosport_5 (n=chatzill@12.46.85.159)`
`01:17.16`	`nitrosport_5`	`wow verry talkitive`
`01:17.38`	`nitrosport_5`	`how can i register my nick "Matt?"`
`01:34.11`	`brlcad`	`geez, i'm stuffed .. an entire leg of lamb`
`01:34.43`	`brlcad`	`so .. yum.. ee ... oohf`
`01:48.55`	`Thumper_`	`Can a plugin do the equivalent of a '/masterban reload' and '/reload' easily?`
`01:51.04`	`JeffM2501`	`no`
`01:54.35`	`*** join/#bzflag _SD_Keo (i=P00nZoR@65.201.194.116)`
`02:01.52`	`Thumper_`	`JeffM2501: so all I need to do is add a new API function for that?`
`02:02.03`	`Thumper_`	`JeffM2501: how about a generic command processor function?`
`02:02.21`	`JeffM2501`	`Thumper_, there is no easy way to do a generic command processor`
`02:02.27`	`JeffM2501`	`we've had that discussion before`
`02:02.33`	`Thumper_`	`we have? oh. must have missed it`
`02:02.37`	`Thumper_`	`sorry`
`02:02.39`	`JeffM2501`	`all the command proccessors asume a player did them`
`02:02.47`	`JeffM2501`	`to do a generic you'd have to fake out a player`
`02:02.51`	`JeffM2501`	`and trap the errors and stuff`
`02:02.54`	`Thumper_`	`ok`
`02:02.55`	`JeffM2501`	`it would not be prety`
`02:03.18`	`JeffM2501`	`so yes, just add new API entry points just like is there for the countdown stuff`
`02:03.26`	`Thumper_`	`k thx`
`02:03.47`	`JeffM2501`	`there may be a generic command processor later, but probalby not till the code gets reorged`
`02:03.53`	`JeffM2501`	`so for now just keep it consistent`
`02:04.13`	`*** join/#bzflag lan56 (i=lan56@user-vcauu1r.dsl.mindspring.com)`
`02:04.14`	`trepan`	`you could also do the DTR-loopback`
`02:04.15`	`JeffM2501`	`basicly you make the function not assume a player, then get it's def into the header`
`02:04.22`	`JeffM2501`	`yes you could do the dtr super hack`
`02:04.34`	`JeffM2501`	`plugins that log into the server they are running on :)`
`02:04.44`	`JeffM2501`	`I'd rather see the API just be expanded`
`02:04.48`	`JeffM2501`	`bit cleaner`
`02:04.53`	`DTRemenak`	`heh :)`
`02:06.44`	`trepan`	`(cause i'm guessing that'll be a while)`
`02:07.54`	`JeffM2501`	`what? you don't think fearless leader is going to get right on your problem :)`
`02:07.57`	`*** part/#bzflag _SD_Keo (i=P00nZoR@65.201.194.116)`
`02:08.45`	`trepan`	`nor brlcad, nor you (the alias vs. numeric guys)`
`02:08.46`	`orange`	`what's the difference if the first 'usernames' happen to be numeric?`
`02:09.29`	`orange`	`it doesn't break any generality later`
`02:09.35`	`*** join/#bzflag SilentSwan (n=cygnus@unaffiliated/silentswan)`
`02:09.50`	`SilentSwan`	`guten abend`
`02:10.58`	`brlcad`	`orange: it doesn't break anything, they could be dropped later -- it's just a matter of how much effort is put in a direction that we'd eventually like to revert/change and go in a different direction`
`02:11.35`	`brlcad`	`that said, he's right -- i'm taxed on time, and i sure isn't going to fight it`
`02:12.06`	`orange`	`you know why I think numeric ID's are better anyway? As soon as you give someone the chance to personalize their 'username' that is supposed to be 'permanent' they will eventually want to change it. A number is just a number, and people won't ever (likely :-) ask to change it.`
`02:12.15`	`orange`	`it makes a better global ID`
`02:13.09`	`trepan`	`(thx to JeffM2501)`
`02:13.16`	`JeffM2501`	`you had the account before`
`02:13.23`	`JeffM2501`	`somone set it up for you`
`02:13.27`	`JeffM2501`	`I just reset the password`
`02:15.36`	`brlcad`	`orange: changing it wouldn't be a problem regardless if it's an id or a callsign -- you reserve the id permanent, or recycle it (regardless of whether it's numeric or alphanumeric)`
`02:15.55`	`orange`	`brlcad: changing it is precisely what the problem is now :-)`
`02:16.10`	`*** join/#bzflag KRR (n=krrt@12.146.241.20)`
`02:16.13`	`orange`	`the point is, if we want to ban using it, it should not be changeable`
`02:16.16`	`KRR`	`hiyo`
`02:16.19`	`orange`	`hiya KR`
`02:16.30`	`trepan`	`orange: and it won't be, once they've straightened it out`
`02:16.40`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar (n=foo@allegro/user/wegstar)`
`02:16.41`	`trepan`	`but numerics will have to do for now`
`02:17.01`	`orange`	`I maintain that human nature makes personalized 'permanent' id's impossible :-)`
`02:17.32`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar (n=foo@allegro/user/wegstar)`
`02:17.40`	`trepan`	`and /ban, /idban, and /hostban now all prepend the nick to the reason if it isn't already there`
`02:17.42`	`KRR`	`yeah - some human made me change from KR to KRR with a silly rule ;)`
`02:17.44`	`brlcad`	`it shouldn't (ultimately) matter whether they want to change it, rename it, etc`
`02:18.07`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar (n=foo@allegro/user/wegstar)`
`02:18.20`	`orange`	`brlcad: I'm not sure I follow, but I may not have enough vision`
`02:18.21`	`brlcad`	`the only "decision" is what happens to a name when it is no longer use, that's what would have to be agreed upon`
`02:18.49`	`JeffM2501`	`basicly it must be made unchangeable in the forums`
`02:18.57`	`orange`	`if I tell my server not to allow the user with ID "foo" to play, and the user with ID "foo" can change it to "739bar" then it does me no good`
`02:18.59`	`brlcad`	`whether or not to toss the name back into the pool of allowable or effectively disable it unless the original owner reactivates it`
`02:19.39`	`brlcad`	`orange: that's only a limitation of our current setup -- ID "foo" should trace back to an account (which it only slightly does now)`
`02:19.49`	`*** join/#bzflag rj-away (n=booto@rawmode.org)`
`02:20.08`	`brlcad`	`more a limitation of the bzbb coupling than anything`
`02:20.20`	`orange`	`hmmm, using an immutable ID for each account eliminates all the complexity of needing to track history, worry about recycling, or anything`
`02:20.23`	`JeffM2501`	`the user portion of the database should be split`
`02:20.26`	`JeffM2501`	`totaly`
`02:20.35`	`JeffM2501`	`and bzbb just keep a userID to number maping`
`02:20.52`	`brlcad`	`conceptually, though, the point is that the "account" can be a numeric id or a string label -- the same behavior results`
`02:21.09`	`JeffM2501`	`all acount IDs should be beer labels`
`02:21.33`	`orange`	`I agree with that, except we already have an immutable 'account' which is numeric, and could start using it effectively immediately`
`02:21.42`	`brlcad`	`orange: sure, but again, that's the "decision" I was referring to -- whether to recycle them or not`
`02:21.50`	`brlcad`	`still doesn't affect whether ID is a number or a string`
`02:22.17`	`*** join/#bzflag Roxport (n=roxport@ppp-70-128-87-215.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)`
`02:22.19`	`orange`	`but I'm still not sure why you would ever want the user to change their base ID`
`02:22.23`	`brlcad`	`the same holds for numbers.. an account is retired/deleted -- would the number be recycled or not is a similar decision, you just usually don't for numbers`
`02:22.24`	`orange`	`regardless of what it is`
`02:22.48`	`orange`	`right, they're 'anonymous' and generic and there is no need to recycle, or to ever change them`
`02:22.50`	`Roxport`	`what causes tank to blow up when joining? then it says "you can't join again for 3.x seconds" ???`
`02:23.11`	`JeffM2501`	`you a repeat joiner?`
`02:23.14`	`Roxport`	`no`
`02:23.16`	`brlcad`	`i'm not saying we'd want to allow changing their base ID (number or string) i.e. their user/account name`
`02:23.16`	`Roxport`	`i run a server`
`02:23.28`	`JeffM2501`	`repeat joiners can do that`
`02:23.29`	`Roxport`	`a friend trying to log on (never played publicly before) is getting this`
`02:23.37`	`JeffM2501`	`wierd`
`02:23.38`	`Roxport`	`how can i turn off that functin of the server?`
`02:23.45`	`Roxport`	`what's requireudp? do i need that`
`02:23.50`	`JeffM2501`	`no you don't`
`02:23.50`	`orange`	`ah, what I didn't understand was this: <brlcad> it shouldn't (ultimately) matter whether they want to change it, rename it, etc`
`02:23.56`	`Roxport`	`ok`
`02:24.07`	`Roxport`	`what about -q dissallow pings or something. is that needed?`
`02:24.09`	`JeffM2501`	`everyone does UDP now`
`02:24.12`	`JeffM2501`	`no it's not`
`02:24.12`	`Roxport`	`ok`
`02:24.19`	`brlcad`	`Roxport: there's some variable for it, rejoinTime or somesuch`
`02:24.20`	`JeffM2501`	`if you don't know what it is, you probably don't need it`
`02:24.23`	`Roxport`	`ok`
`02:24.31`	`Roxport`	`JeffM2501: :) yeah you're right`
`02:24.46`	`JeffM2501`	`damn, where'd I put my ipod`
`02:24.47`	`brlcad`	`the manpage lists it iirc, or it might even have it's own option, check the manual`
`02:26.06`	`brlcad`	`orange: what I meant by that is that it shouldn't matter on a high-level end-user perspective to our account system whether you decide tomorrow that you want to permanently stop playing with 'orange' and start playing with 'egnaro'`
`02:26.37`	`orange`	`brlcad: as long as there is a published and usable underlying ID that ties orange, egnaro together... I agree with that`
`02:26.43`	`brlcad`	`which is what we have now -- they have to create multiple accounts`
`02:27.05`	`brlcad`	`orange: agreed here too ;)`
`02:27.51`	`brlcad`	`the only difference is whether to make the underlying ID a string or a number -- if it's going to be published, there's good practical reasons to make it a string`
`02:28.06`	`orange`	`ok, here's where we start to disagree :-)`
`02:28.28`	`brlcad`	`yep`
`02:29.13`	`brlcad`	`the secondary question is whether to recycle dead IDs or not, but it's easy enough to say "no, we won't"`
`02:29.29`	`orange`	`who chooses the underlying ID if it is a string?`
`02:29.59`	`brlcad`	`the underlying ID would be an account name to our account system`
`02:30.25`	`brlcad`	`accounts would be tied to individual users (like now)`
`02:30.35`	`brlcad`	`accounts can have various callsigns tied to them`
`02:30.50`	`brlcad`	`if an admin bans any one of those, it bans all of them`
`02:31.00`	`orange`	`all sounds good, except I'm not sure who chooses the account ID`
`02:31.06`	`brlcad`	`(by banning the parent id)`
`02:31.25`	`brlcad`	`users would pick the account ID like how you pick your primary irc user name`
`02:31.46`	`orange`	`that's what I don't like about it then... people will want to change their account ID if you let them choose it`
`02:31.57`	`SilentSwan`	`sigh well, i had to go and blow away the copy of the original madcity map i used to have running... now, i cannot find it anywhere`
`02:32.10`	`SilentSwan`	`i keep finding modified versions that are listed as the original`
`02:32.21`	`brlcad`	`orange: our account system could still allow even that -- it's merely book keeping on the back end`
`02:32.34`	`brlcad`	`pretty trivial book keeping at that`
`02:33.01`	`brlcad`	`and it could be done in a manner that maintains bans`
`02:33.04`	`orange`	`so you have to keep old ID's attached to each account`
`02:33.12`	`brlcad`	`definitely`
`02:33.37`	`orange`	`sounds like a lot more work than just using a permanent, non-personalized ID`
`02:34.34`	`brlcad`	`not really more work, easy book keeping -- the account name would change, the old account name becomes a callsign pointing to the new primary`
`02:34.50`	`orange`	`but it has to be treated specially because it then cannot be deleted by the user`
`02:34.54`	`orange`	`if it can, we're back in the same boat`
`02:34.58`	`brlcad`	`yep`
`02:35.10`	`brlcad`	`that's just a flag in the db`
`02:35.22`	`orange`	`ok, well, with all that, it sounds fine...`
`02:35.30`	`orange`	`and, using the numeric ID's in production right now is also fine`
`02:35.40`	`orange`	`because we can just attach the existing ones to all those accounts when the switchover happens`
`02:36.32`	`orange`	`not that you really needed my approval, lol`
`02:36.33`	`brlcad`	`if you used account names that got looked up for a primary, all existing configs wouldn't even need to change`
`02:37.04`	`orange`	`call them id's, treat them as strings`
`02:37.16`	`brlcad`	`the servers would pass their ban list to the account system to get a list of the IDs`
`02:37.28`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03lan56 * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/EffectsMenu.cxx: make font smaller as it would run well into the console before`
`02:37.31`	`brlcad`	`if that ID shows up, poof`
`02:37.31`	`orange`	`today we can ban using those id's and record them server side, even if they happen to just be numbers`
`02:39.04`	`orange`	`I think jeffm2501 said I'm 345, so if someone bans 345, then later if we separate the systems and I call 'orange' my primary account name, you can just attach '345' as an undeletable old-alias to my name`
`02:39.10`	`orange`	`and it works as is, no changes to people's banlists`
`02:39.17`	`*** join/#bzflag nitrosport_5 (n=chatzill@12.46.85.159)`
`02:39.31`	`brlcad`	`true`
`02:39.48`	`nitrosport_5`	`how can i register my nickname?`
`02:40.03`	`orange`	`and it gives us a workable solution until such time as someone finds time to do the (nice sounding!) full-blown system`
`02:40.03`	`brlcad`	`nitrosport_5: http://my.bzflag.org/bb/`
`02:40.13`	`orange`	`what good timing on that question, too :-)`
`02:40.22`	`nitrosport_5`	`no not bzflag nickname my irc nickname`
`02:40.30`	`orange`	`/msg nickserv help`
`02:40.34`	`brlcad`	`yeah, that's another thing.. this junk shouldn't be on some web page only ;)`
`02:41.00`	`brlcad`	`should be able to make and manage the dang accounts in the game :)`
`02:41.23`	`nitrosport_5`	`it didnt work with help`
`02:41.33`	`brlcad`	`nitrosport_5: did you read the help? :)`
`02:41.47`	`brlcad`	`there was some required effort there ..`
`02:41.54`	`nitrosport_5`	`it didnt pop up any help`
`02:42.08`	`nitrosport_5`	`nikservhelp`
`02:42.13`	`orange`	`nickserv`
`02:42.21`	`nitrosport_5`	`[INFO]No such nick/channel`
`02:42.32`	`orange`	`yeah, you dropped a 'c', see?`
`02:42.48`	`nitrosport_5`	`ahhh thanks`
`02:43.14`	`orange`	`lol`
`02:43.25`	`orange`	`ever tried it with a peppermint stick?`
`02:43.39`	`brlcad`	`never occurred to me to try`
`02:43.47`	`orange`	`it works, and it's good`
`02:43.55`	`orange`	`little channels open up in the peppermint`
`02:44.00`	`orange`	`strange, but true :-)`
`02:44.50`	`orange`	`brlcad: you're right about it needing to be in-game, but this was a great first step, and it's enabled some really cool stuff, and I think it's fairly buildable`
`02:45.19`	`*** join/#bzflag RPG_ (n=G-bus@c-24-15-87-171.hsd1.il.comcast.net)`
`02:45.42`	`RPG_`	`DTRemenak comes in 3 forms`
`02:45.43`	`nitrosport_5`	`[INFO]No such nick/channel when i type /msg nickserve identify password`
`02:45.55`	`brlcad`	`nitrosport_5: nickserv`
`02:45.58`	`orange`	`nitrosport_5: eeee, you have an extra 'e'`
`02:45.58`	`RPG_`	`/msg nickserv identify password`
`02:46.03`	`nitrosport_5`	`lol`
`02:46.18`	`brlcad`	`hilarious`
`02:46.18`	`nitrosport_5`	`im 0 for 2 tonight :(`
`02:46.22`	`orange`	`lol`
`02:46.42`	`RPG_`	`would it work to take the 3000+ proecessor out of my mobo and put it into a new mobo?`
`02:46.49`	`*** part/#bzflag Roxport (n=roxport@ppp-70-128-87-215.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)`
`02:47.09`	`brlcad`	`RPG_: a pair of pliers should do the trick`
`02:47.14`	`brlcad`	`~spell plyers`
`02:47.36`	`RPG_`	`i mean, will I lose any "perfomrance" by transferring it?`
`02:47.39`	`orange`	`pliers looks wrong, but I think it's right`
`02:48.03`	`brlcad`	`yeah, i thought it was wrong but apparently not`
`02:48.20`	`brlcad`	`tricky engrish`
`02:48.26`	`orange`	`tricksy`
`02:48.52`	`brlcad`	`RPG_: using pliers .. shouldn't ..`
`02:48.57`	`brlcad`	`just might snap the sucker in two`
`02:49.25`	`RPG_`	`why did i ever buy AGP in the first place?`
`02:49.39`	`brlcad`	`if you have to ask whether it'll affect performance, you probably shouldn't touch the chip`
`02:49.43`	`RPG_`	`i gotta get a whole new mobo now for a PCIe card`
`02:50.10`	`RPG_`	`probably`
`02:52.37`	`SilentSwan`	`AGP is so... last year`
`02:58.04`	`Thumper_`	`SilentSwan: did you find the mad city map yet?`
`02:58.11`	`SilentSwan`	`no`
`02:58.22`	`Thumper_`	`I have the one turkey.moongroup was running`
`02:58.26`	`Thumper_`	`is that the one you want?`
`02:58.38`	`SilentSwan`	`i have no idea`
`02:58.45`	`SilentSwan`	`i'm looking for the original madcity`
`02:58.53`	`SilentSwan`	`i keep finding modified versions, but not the original`
`02:59.15`	`Aribeth`	`i have a copy of it`
`02:59.22`	`Thumper_`	`my copy is running on bzflag.norang.ca:5155`
`02:59.27`	`Thumper_`	`with modified flags`
`02:59.32`	`SilentSwan`	`hang on`
`02:59.34`	`Aribeth`	`and it can be found on shellshock i beleive`
`02:59.46`	`SilentSwan`	`shellshock?`
`02:59.51`	`Aribeth`	`ya`
`02:59.51`	`brlcad`	`turkey should be one of the oldest`
`03:00.03`	`brlcad`	`shellshock is the shizzle`
`03:00.06`	`Aribeth`	`turkey is old`
`03:00.12`	`RPG_`	`http://shellshock.bzflag.bz`
`03:00.20`	`Thumper_`	`all I did was run it through trepan's bzmapper to remove`
`03:00.22`	`Thumper_`	`overlapping things`
`03:00.27`	`Thumper_`	`http://bzflag.norang.ca/maps/5155.bzw`
`03:02.07`	`*** part/#bzflag RPG_ (n=G-bus@c-24-15-87-171.hsd1.il.comcast.net)`
`03:04.24`	`SilentSwan`	`no, that's not it`
`03:04.33`	`SilentSwan`	`i don't really care`
`03:04.42`	`SilentSwan`	`but thanks`
`03:12.18`	`SilentSwan`	`Aribeth: you have a copy of madcity? i'd be curious to see which one this is...`
`03:20.27`	`KRR`	`for the record, "pliers" is correct`
`03:20.30`	`KRR`	`:)`
`03:21.07`	`DTRemenak`	`oh, and hi and stuff`
`03:22.44`	`KRR`	`howdee DTR (in all your forms)`
`03:24.21`	`DTRemenak`	`that's better, now only two of me :)`
`03:24.40`	`KRR`	`less clothing costs that way....... ;)`
`03:24.58`	`KRR`	`hows mega? he still play?`
`03:25.13`	`DTRemenak`	`bzflag? no`
`03:25.41`	`DTRemenak`	`I play some other games with him every once in a while though`
`03:25.41`	`KRR`	`well, when/if you see him, tell him I read most of the books at last :)`
`03:25.46`	`DTRemenak`	`ah, sweet`
`03:25.48`	`DTRemenak`	`like them?`
`03:26.03`	`KRR`	`yeah - I'm pretty sure I read them a looong time ago`
`03:26.21`	`KRR`	`but I'll reread (good) scifi in a heartbeat`
`03:27.01`	`DTRemenak`	`heh :)`
`03:27.09`	`DTRemenak`	`love the way that was qualified :)`
`03:27.30`	`DTRemenak`	`"if it's good enough to reread it, I'll reread it"`
`03:28.08`	`KRR`	`"more than once, sometimes, if its good enough"`
`03:32.26`	`*** join/#bzflag wizatcomp (i=wizatcom@pool-71-240-225-169.fred.east.verizon.net)`
`03:33.36`	`Thumper_`	`trepan: are the new flag commands in CVS v2_0branch? (/flag give etc)`
`03:38.53`	`Thumper_`	`is anon cvs more then 5 hrs behind now?`
`03:44.56`	`orange`	`/flav give?`
`03:45.00`	`orange`	`/flag give?`
`03:47.30`	`Thumper_`	`some new /flag commands trepan added`
`03:47.36`	`Thumper_`	`you can drop a specific players flag`
`03:54.11`	`trepan`	`Thumper_: yup, i'm not working with 2.1.x until 2.0.6 is done`
`03:55.14`	`Thumper_`	`ok anon cvs isn't caught up yet :/`
`03:55.33`	`trepan`	`they were in early yesterday, iirc`
`03:55.44`	`trepan`	`could be the SF upgrade`
`03:56.12`	`Thumper_`	`probably - I'll just wait :)`
`03:56.15`	`orange`	`trepan: you rock :-)`
`03:57.31`	`trepan`	`orange: ids seem to be working, bzfls.php mod was 1 line, just gonna test a bit`
`03:58.35`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=jeffm@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501)`
`03:58.35`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ`
`03:59.15`	`JeffM2501`	`and have yourself a merry little Christmas..... now`
`04:00.19`	`*** join/#bzflag PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@pcp0011645240pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)`
`04:12.02`	`*** join/#bzflag triclops_ (n=triclops@203-158-50-220.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
`04:17.36`	`trepan`	`BZID's are now available :)`
`04:19.31`	`I_Died_Once`	`whats a BZID ???`
`04:20.02`	`trepan`	`it's for bzfs servers, it's currently the bzbb numeric identifier`
`04:20.30`	`I_Died_Once`	`will I get one?`
`04:20.47`	`JeffM2501`	`you have one`
`04:21.16`	`I_Died_Once`	`I must've missed somethiing somewhere`
`04:21.34`	`JeffM2501`	`yours is 1032`
`04:22.06`	`I_Died_Once`	`is that a number you guys have given me....`
`04:22.22`	`I_Died_Once`	`or is that a md5 sum type of number`
`04:22.24`	`JeffM2501`	`you have had it ever since you the day you registered`
`04:22.44`	`I_Died_Once`	`but trepan said it was bzfs side`
`04:22.54`	`JeffM2501`	`it is :)`
`04:23.21`	`JeffM2501`	`but it came from bzbb`
`04:23.46`	`I_Died_Once`	`so that's my server's number, eh?`
`04:23.53`	`JeffM2501`	`no`
`04:23.57`	`JeffM2501`	`that is YOUR number`
`04:23.58`	`JeffM2501`	`for you`
`04:24.04`	`JeffM2501`	`every registered user has one`
`04:24.04`	`I_Died_Once`	`ah`
`04:24.20`	`I_Died_Once`	`now i gotcha`
`04:24.37`	`JeffM2501`	`basicly you can ban by ID`
`04:24.47`	`JeffM2501`	`then no mater how many times they change there name, the ban sticks`
`04:25.30`	`JeffM2501`	`eventualy it should be not a number`
`04:25.53`	`JeffM2501`	`but a nonmuteable username, with the playing name as a callsign`
`04:26.02`	`JeffM2501`	`like IRC does`
`04:26.31`	`I_Died_Once`	`"Lord Jesus" never came to MoFo and wreaked hell like he did on all the other servers`
`04:26.47`	`I_Died_Once`	`I feel left out and discriminated against`
`04:27.36`	`JeffM2501`	`heh`
`04:47.22`	`*** join/#bzflag SilentSwan (n=cygnus@unaffiliated/silentswan)`
`04:48.11`	`SilentSwan`	`well... i've decided to cancel that interview i've setup... after reading this... http://www.networkworld.com/news/2005/110905-gartner-it.html?nl&nltx=1114managementalert1&code=nlnetsystemsmgmt11388`
`04:48.54`	`SilentSwan`	`now i don't have to get my hopes up again :)`
`04:52.35`	`Aribeth`	`its a load og tripe!`
`04:52.41`	`Aribeth`	`of*`
`04:53.02`	`Aribeth`	`they just dont want to pay for IT`
`04:53.32`	`Aribeth`	`they will find in a few years that a manager wont know how to repair a server`
`04:54.02`	`SilentSwan`	`yeah, well Sandeep in Bangalore is doing it for $5/hour so that's all that matters`
`04:54.24`	`Aribeth`	`yep`
`04:54.36`	`SilentSwan`	`and that's why i'm just not going to bother`
`04:54.51`	`Aribeth`	`im glad to be out of IT`
`04:55.07`	`SilentSwan`	`well... good for you. i'm stuck.`
`04:55.31`	`SilentSwan`	`oh... wait... i'm complaining.`
`04:55.34`	`SilentSwan`	`i'll shutup`
`04:55.36`	`Aribeth`	`well, i'll prolly get a job in a store or something`
`04:57.04`	`SilentSwan`	`i can't do that. i need to eat.`
`04:57.19`	`Aribeth`	`me too, but i cant do IT again`
`04:59.44`	`SilentSwan`	`i just keep thinking about how i have to wake up again every day and keep doing this. rat in a cage.`
`05:00.55`	`JeffM2501`	`despite all your rage?`
`05:01.34`	`purple_cow`	`JeffM2501: what are all the letters and numbers that come after "6600" on that box of yours? :)`
`05:02.55`	`JeffM2501`	`nothing`
`05:03.11`	`JeffM2501`	`it's a regular 128 meg stock 600`
`05:03.13`	`JeffM2501`	`no GT`
`05:03.16`	`JeffM2501`	`no ultra`
`05:03.23`	`purple_cow`	`know how much vram?`
`05:03.26`	`JeffM2501`	`it's a gigabyte card`
`05:03.27`	`JeffM2501`	`128 megs`
`05:03.31`	`JeffM2501`	`no fan`
`05:03.33`	`JeffM2501`	`silent one`
`05:04.15`	`JeffM2501`	`http://www.giga-byte.com/VGA/Products/Products_GV-NX66128DP.htm`
`05:04.19`	`JeffM2501`	`that is the exact card`
`05:04.38`	`JeffM2501`	`you need a DVI adapter with it?`
`05:07.12`	`purple_cow`	`JeffM2501: hang on`
`05:07.55`	`purple_cow`	`trying to decide if i care to shell out for something better`
`05:08.22`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah it is the BOTTOM rung PCI-e card`
`05:08.36`	`JeffM2501`	`I have it available becuase I replaced it allready :)`
`05:09.12`	`purple_cow`	`hehe`
`05:09.23`	`JeffM2501`	`tho I got my GTs for free`
`05:09.26`	`JeffM2501`	`so I can't complain`
`05:09.41`	`JeffM2501`	`are geting a SLI mobo?`
`05:10.02`	`purple_cow`	`no`
`05:10.09`	`purple_cow`	`looking at the shuttle SD31P`
`05:11.40`	`JeffM2501`	`there is a new 6800 that is suposed to be very nice`
`05:11.44`	`JeffM2501`	`and rather cheap`
`05:12.33`	`purple_cow`	`i see a 6800 GT 256MB for $240`
`05:14.02`	`JeffM2501`	`that's a good card`
`05:14.40`	`JeffM2501`	`the new one is the GS`
`05:14.44`	`JeffM2501`	`it's suposed to be good`
`05:15.28`	`purple_cow`	`hmm, doesn't have a category on pricewatch yet`
`05:15.36`	`JeffM2501`	`just enter it into search`
`05:15.41`	`JeffM2501`	`they start at like 208`
`05:16.04`	`JeffM2501`	`http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=190443&AFFIL=pricewatch&NR=1`
`05:16.24`	`JeffM2501`	`it reviewed quite well`
`05:16.27`	`purple_cow`	`err, ick. card i'm looking at is double-width`
`05:17.03`	`JeffM2501`	`a number of 6800 are`
`05:17.05`	`JeffM2501`	`the older ones`
`05:21.15`	`JeffM2501`	`I may be geting a couple GSs`
`05:21.16`	`purple_cow`	`really looking for something with dual DVI`
`05:21.19`	`JeffM2501`	`they should SLI nice`
`05:21.26`	`purple_cow`	`since at some point i'm planning to replace my aging CRTs`
`05:21.51`	`JeffM2501`	`there are many that exist`
`05:21.58`	`JeffM2501`	`my GTs are dual DVI`
`05:22.36`	`JeffM2501`	`many of the XFX brand ones are`
`05:22.56`	`JeffM2501`	`search for 6800 dual DVI PCI`
`05:23.00`	`JeffM2501`	`it shows many`
`05:25.17`	`JeffM2501`	`you can usualy bios update/overclock a non GT to a GT`
`05:25.50`	`purple_cow`	`i think i'm going to go with the pny gt`
`05:26.00`	`JeffM2501`	`k`
`05:26.29`	`JeffM2501`	`I would rather have 1 6800GT then these 2 6600s`
`05:26.39`	`purple_cow`	`hehe`
`05:26.55`	`JeffM2501`	`SLI, while interesting, is a pain in the ass`
`05:27.01`	`purple_cow`	`i still can't believe how cheap computers are nowadays`
`05:27.29`	`JeffM2501`	`what are you getings?`
`05:28.17`	`purple_cow`	`shuttle SD31P, pentium D 830, 2GB, 400GB, and the 6800`
`05:28.23`	`purple_cow`	`all under 1.5k`
`05:30.19`	`JeffM2501`	`oh`
`05:30.21`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm sorry`
`05:30.28`	`purple_cow`	`sorry?`
`05:30.36`	`JeffM2501`	`pentium`
`05:30.45`	`purple_cow`	`why?`
`05:30.54`	`JeffM2501`	`haven't liked them since the P4`
`05:30.58`	`JeffM2501`	`nothing but problems`
`05:31.09`	`JeffM2501`	`the AMDs run much better in our tests`
`05:31.16`	`JeffM2501`	`way cooler`
`05:31.20`	`JeffM2501`	`and way less power too`
`05:35.12`	`JeffM2501`	`and are about 100$ cheaper per CPU`
`05:39.35`	`purple_cow`	`hum`
`05:40.00`	`purple_cow`	`athlon X2 motherboards seem few and far between`
`05:40.12`	`purple_cow`	`only shuttle that supports it runs about $700 right now...`
`05:41.52`	`JeffM2501`	`ohh your doing a mini`
`05:41.53`	`JeffM2501`	`got it`
`05:42.39`	`*** join/#bzflag kahcepb[Ru] (n=den@213.189.217.163)`
`05:42.56`	`purple_cow`	`yep`
`05:48.49`	`purple_cow`	`anyhoo`
`05:49.11`	`purple_cow`	`a PD 830 should be a bit faster than my 1.7G P4 or my 1.4G PM ;)`
`05:51.19`	`JeffM2501`	`when did you get a powermac?`
`05:51.29`	`purple_cow`	`pentium M`
`05:51.33`	`JeffM2501`	`oh`
`05:55.21`	`*** join/#bzflag bz6563 (n=47d0b21a@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`05:55.54`	`MR_BOB`	`evening ya'll!`
`06:11.28`	`MR_BOB`	`anyone in here an admin on hepcat's server?`
`06:16.06`	`trepan`	`why?`
`06:17.15`	`MR_BOB`	`because there's this player there`
`06:17.19`	`MR_BOB`	`who is trolling me/accusing me of cheating`
`06:17.24`	`MR_BOB`	he's not being nice :`(
`06:18.19`	`MR_BOB`	`to be fair, I haven't been as..pleasant back as I could have been, but all I really want is to play...`
`06:18.29`	`orange`	`so silence him and keep playing`
`06:45.49`	`orange`	`trepan: did you put the shot follow into cvs?`
`06:48.37`	`trepan`	`don't think so, there are several other changes around there`
`06:49.17`	`orange`	`ah, was looking for the localset to turn it on... better quit looking :-)`
`06:49.43`	`*** join/#bzflag bz6563 (n=47d0b21a@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`06:49.57`	`trepan`	`it'll be 'trackShots'`
`06:50.24`	`orange`	`coolness`
`06:50.35`	`*** join/#bzflag MR_BOB (i=JK@71-208-178-26.hlrn.qwest.net)`
`07:01.20`	`*** join/#bzflag _Manu_ (n=jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.staticIP.rima-tde.net)`
`07:19.39`	`*** join/#bzflag deprecated (n=deprecat@c-24-18-18-191.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)`
`07:26.18`	`*** join/#bzflag bz3218 (n=ca59966d@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`07:26.23`	`bz3218`	`anyone home?`
`07:27.22`	`JeffM2501`	`home?`
`07:27.29`	`bz3218`	`right.`
`07:27.53`	`bz3218`	`I'm playing BZFlag 2.0.4 on Mac OS X, and the fonts are all naffed.`
`07:28.09`	`bz3218`	`I've tried it on X.2, X.3 and X.4`
`07:28.14`	`bz3218`	`the fonts are still naffed.`
`07:28.36`	`bz3218`	`I am now satisfied that I have brought this problem to the attention of the BZFlag community.`
`07:28.50`	`bz3218`	`:)`
`07:28.53`	`JeffM2501`	`what is your video card?`
`07:29.59`	`bz3218`	`forget the model)`
`07:30.00`	`Guu`	`I've never heard of the model), bz3218!`
`07:30.03`	`bz3218`	`dammit.`
`07:30.08`	`JeffM2501`	`what mac is it?`
`07:30.12`	`bz3218`	`sorry, web interface.`
`07:30.21`	`bz3218`	`G4 Quicksilver, G4 iMac and G3 iMac`
`07:30.45`	`JeffM2501`	`and what quality setting are you at? and what are your textures set to?`
`07:30.59`	`bz3218`	`ati rage 128, geforce2mx and some other ati thing`
`07:31.12`	`bz3218`	`tried most of the quality settings - defaults are the lowest.`
`07:31.21`	`bz3218`	`textures are all low.`
`07:31.23`	`JeffM2501`	`the rage won't be able to do the font scaling right`
`07:31.45`	`JeffM2501`	`in your config, add "set useBitmapFontRenderer 1"`
`07:31.54`	`bz3218`	`i've memorised the key strokes to change the resolution to 640x480 without being able to see the screen :)`
`07:32.01`	`bz3218`	`the font works ok then.`
`07:32.14`	`bz3218`	`then i start a game, hit esc and change the resolution back up.`
`07:32.18`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah the scaling dosn't work on all cards`
`07:32.25`	`JeffM2501`	`and on all drivers`
`07:32.29`	`bz3218`	`right.`
`07:32.33`	`JeffM2501`	`many of the older cards geek`
`07:32.36`	`JeffM2501`	`that's why we have that mode`
`07:32.46`	`bz3218`	`btw, where do i find the config file?`
`07:33.04`	`bz3218`	`i had a hunt for it, because the first time I run bzflag on any machine it works fine.`
`07:33.10`	`JeffM2501`	`your user dir / library/application support/bzflag/2.0/`
`07:33.13`	`bz3218`	`it's only subsequent runs that the font stuffs up.`
`07:33.15`	`JeffM2501`	`then config.cfg`
`07:33.17`	`bz3218`	`thx`
`07:35.55`	`bz3218`	`gtg, thanks for your help Jeff`
`07:36.10`	`JeffM2501`	`have fun`
`07:36.22`	`cosmos`	`"dude you run old maps your server sucks" i love /report`
`07:37.37`	`Aribeth`	`heh, i get that too`
`07:37.49`	`Aribeth`	`who said it`
`07:38.30`	`Aribeth`	`the old maps are the good ones`
`07:38.52`	`cosmos`	`YOUR DEAD`
`07:38.54`	`cosmos`	`nice nick`
`07:38.59`	`Aribeth`	`ya`
`07:39.22`	`Aribeth`	`not as bad as inuasha`
`07:39.32`	`cosmos`	`then i got a mr_bob whining about someone accusing him of cheating`
`07:39.36`	`cosmos`	`over 20 /reports`
`07:39.57`	`Aribeth`	`he was complaining about harmless i think`
`07:40.03`	`cosmos`	`yep`
`07:40.19`	`Aribeth`	`harmless is mostly hot air`
`07:41.28`	`Aribeth`	`whats this player x just farted?`
`07:41.47`	`cosmos`	`that was me messing with him`
`07:41.54`	`Aribeth`	`ahh`
`07:41.56`	`cosmos`	`oops brb`
`07:49.03`	`Aribeth`	`ignore harmless`
`07:49.17`	`Aribeth`	`hes mostly just talk`
`07:49.39`	`MR_BOB`	`apparently. Not a real good welcome for newish players - don't know what 'is problem is though`
`07:49.53`	`MR_BOB`	`I don't care - I got to the point where he was more funny than anything :)`
`07:50.04`	`Aribeth`	`he can get wrapped up in the game`
`07:58.14`	`cosmos`	`ill just mute him every 10 minutes`
`08:00.04`	`Aribeth`	`heh, they think its my server. go figure`
`08:01.50`	`cosmos`	`i saw that`
`08:02.41`	`Aribeth`	`ya. harmless did that`
`08:13.46`	`*** join/#bzflag LePoulpe303 (n=Miranda@AMontpellier-152-1-40-223.w81-251.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`08:14.00`	`LePoulpe303`	`hi all`
`08:31.12`	`LePoulpe303`	`what is the best way to retrieve the active server list ?`
`08:39.50`	`*** join/#bzflag newbie_dont (n=jah@fwt.computerland.pl)`
`08:40.22`	`*** join/#bzflag DTRemenak\|RDP (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)`
`08:40.22`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+v DTRemenak\|RDP] by ChanServ`
`08:41.58`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03trepan * 10db/bzfls.php: temporary numeric BZID info (now running)`
`08:48.26`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03trepan 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/ (11 files in 3 dirs):`
`08:48.27`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: - added "/idban", "/idunban", "/idbanlist", "/idlist" command`
`08:48.27`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: (also caused /ban to generate an idban if for a single player)`
`08:48.27`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: - fixed parseDuration() bug`
`08:52.27`	`*** join/#bzflag wizatcom (i=wizatcom@pool-71-240-225-169.fred.east.verizon.net)`
`08:55.39`	`*** join/#bzflag kahcepb[Ru] (n=den@213.189.217.163)`
`08:56.00`	`LePoulpe303`	`is it possible to query directly the mysql server of mybzflag.org ?`
`09:05.49`	`*** join/#bzflag wizatcomputer (i=wizatcom@pool-71-240-225-169.fred.east.verizon.net)`
`09:05.56`	`*** join/#bzflag MR_BOB (i=JK@71-208-178-26.hlrn.qwest.net)`
`09:12.48`	`*** join/#bzflag jomojo (n=jomojo@c-24-17-68-130.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)`
`09:30.22`	`*** join/#bzflag bz9551 (n=c1a7c523@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`09:36.39`	`*** join/#bzflag jomojo_ (n=jomojo@c-24-17-68-130.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)`
`09:41.34`	`*** join/#bzflag mmu_man (i=revol@ALyon-253-1-56-176.w86-193.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`10:19.08`	`brlcad`	`hmm.. provider provided a really long explanation of sunday's network fiasco`
`10:19.30`	`brlcad`	`sounds like the fit really hit the shans`
`10:23.13`	`brlcad`	`trepan: since you were one of the few to ask, if you're really interested, I can send you the message with the details`
`10:24.21`	`trepan`	`sounds good, need the email?`
`10:24.44`	`brlcad`	`nah`
`10:25.29`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03trepan 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/ (4 files): - added filtering for /banlist, /hostbanlist, /idbanlist, and /viewreports`
`10:35.41`	`brlcad`	`sent`
`10:40.52`	`trepan`	`reminds of some of the emails i used to see when i was at Nortel`
`10:41.50`	`trepan`	`a little honestly blended with a soupcon of CYA`
`10:43.59`	`brlcad`	`yeah`
`10:54.37`	`*** join/#bzflag MR_BOB (i=JK@71-208-178-26.hlrn.qwest.net)`
`10:58.43`	`*** join/#bzflag MR_BOB (i=JK@71-208-178-26.hlrn.qwest.net)`
`11:24.10`	`*** join/#bzflag Ice_Wewe (n=Ice_Wewe@ppp-216-106-107-249.storm.ca)`
`11:38.30`	`ruskie`	`hmmm`
`11:38.44`	`ruskie`	`am on viper and I see odd laggy issues from my side...`
`11:41.06`	`ruskie`	`ppl going nr and back all the time`
`11:46.01`	`eXtreme`	`~seen lan56`
`11:46.03`	`ibot`	`lan56 <i=lan56@user-vcauv9e.dsl.mindspring.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 1d 14h 46m 52s ago, saying: 'ok will do'.`
`11:50.55`	`*** join/#bzflag ruskie (n=ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie)`
`12:07.42`	`*** join/#bzflag kirun (n=kirun@kirun.plus.com)`
`12:12.52`	`*** join/#bzflag ruskie (n=ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie)`
`12:24.07`	`*** join/#bzflag Guest912 (n=c3908304@69.72.217.180)`
`12:28.41`	`*** join/#bzflag hansemann (n=hanseman@dslb-084-058-015-121.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`12:32.05`	`*** join/#bzflag Guest998 (n=c3908304@69.72.217.180)`
`12:32.09`	`*** join/#bzflag wizart (n=wizart@dslb-084-058-182-106.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`12:32.56`	`hansemann`	hi, changed my i386 to an amd64, now i can`t shoot anybody (+ xxx ms) is there any workaround or fix?
`12:54.36`	`*** part/#bzflag hansemann (n=hanseman@dslb-084-058-015-121.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`12:58.02`	`*** join/#bzflag conanhome (n=conan@201.254.98.6)`
`12:59.32`	`*** join/#bzflag hansemann (n=hanseman@dslb-084-058-015-121.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`12:59.37`	`*** join/#bzflag ToughShooter (n=ts@p54B012E1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`13:06.26`	`Chestal`	`hansemann: which bzflag version on which operating system?`
`13:06.58`	`hansemann`	`debian amd64 bzflag 2.04`
`13:07.10`	`Chestal`	`uh, 64Bit Debian?`
`13:07.38`	`hansemann`	`yes :(`
`13:07.49`	`Chestal`	`the debian packages on i386 had some problems, I believe only up to 2.02, though. Not sure, i bzflag will work without changes when running in 64bit mode`
`13:08.11`	`Chestal`	`your best shot is to try and compile it yourself`
`13:08.41`	`hansemann`	`i got a amd64 version, but have the same problem if i compile it from cvs`
`13:08.43`	`Chestal`	`I think I have read about the 64bit issue here before, but I don't know any details. Maybe someone else does who is not awake right now`
`13:09.14`	`hansemann`	`;) thank's`
`13:09.24`	`Chestal`	`is it feasible to do a -m32 build?`
`13:09.49`	`hansemann`	`maybee, i must install a 32bit chroot`
`13:10.24`	`*** part/#bzflag ToughShooter (n=ts@p54B012E1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`13:10.31`	`hansemann`	but i`m new to the amd64 port and must look how things work
`13:10.33`	`*** join/#bzflag ToughShooter (n=ts@p54B012E1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`13:10.38`	`Chestal`	`hmm, not familiar how Debian handles 64/32 bit stuff. Anyway, bzflag _should_ run in 64bit mode, if it doesn't it must be fixed`
`13:11.25`	`hansemann`	`i found a bug report at sourceforge - but no answer yet`
`13:13.50`	`*** join/#bzflag kahcepb[Ru] (n=den@213.189.206.222)`
`13:14.57`	`*** join/#bzflag kahcepb[Ru] (n=den@213.189.217.163)`
`13:18.20`	`*** join/#bzflag bz9707 (n=51af4cfd@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`13:41.53`	`LePoulpe303`	`https://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=149246&ssid=21459`
`13:42.00`	`LePoulpe303`	`oops bad window sry`
`13:43.11`	`_Manu_`	`heh`
`14:00.43`	`*** part/#bzflag hansemann (n=hanseman@dslb-084-058-015-121.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`14:12.03`	`*** join/#bzflag TheRedBaron (n=d8ada652@genesis.concept69.de)`
`14:16.59`	`TheRedBaron`	`Whenever I go to change mousewheel bindings in 2.0.5b2, it resests the whole config back to default... any ideas on why?`
`14:17.23`	`TheRedBaron`	`win2k is my OS`
`14:17.45`	`TheRedBaron`	`Actually, It eats my custom bindings...`
`14:18.04`	`TheRedBaron`	`What I'm trying to do, Is simply reverse the directions`
`14:18.24`	`TheRedBaron`	`Instead of scrolling up to zoom in, I'd rather it scroll down to zoom in.. but no such luck.`
`14:20.30`	`*** join/#bzflag hans- (n=hanseman@dslb-084-058-015-121.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`14:22.46`	`blast007`	`TheRedBaron: works for me with the latest v2_0branch`
`14:23.03`	`I_Died_Once`	`I'm scared to download CVS anymore`
`14:23.24`	`I_Died_Once`	`I dont wanna screw up my server`
`14:23.43`	`blast007`	`?`
`14:23.55`	`blast007`	`did you install the HEAD last time? :)`
`14:24.01`	`blast007`	`or did it just break plugins?`
`14:24.06`	`I_Died_Once`	`somethings usually broken when i get my hands on it`
`14:24.30`	`I_Died_Once`	`I got a nice version of '0.5 installed and running`
`14:24.55`	`TheRedBaron`	`Blast007: the default bindings work, but custom doesn't`
`14:27.51`	`TheRedBaron`	`Blast007: are you using the default or your own bindings?`
`14:39.06`	`*** join/#bzflag cods (n=cods@tuxee.net)`
`14:42.26`	`*** join/#bzflag SportChick (n=SportChi@ca-redbch-cuda1-c3b-a-40.stmnca.adelphia.net)`
`14:51.06`	`eXtreme`	`g username "brad".`
`14:51.06`	`eXtreme`	`Using keyboard-interactive authentication.`
`14:51.06`	`eXtreme`	`Password:`
`14:51.06`	`eXtreme`	`Linux Mikey 2.6.8 #2 Tue Apr 19 21:41:43 EDT 2005 i686 GNU/Linux`
`14:51.06`	`eXtreme`	`The programs included with the Debian GNU/Linux system are free software;`
`14:51.51`	`jpa-`	`...`
`14:51.58`	`Aribeth`	`huh`
`14:52.08`	`Aribeth`	`hi jpa-`
`14:52.08`	`eXtreme`	`DID THAT JUST PASTE? :s`
`14:52.12`	`eXtreme`	`oops`
`14:52.14`	`jpa-`	`hi arii`
`14:52.19`	`eXtreme`	`g username "brad".`
`14:52.19`	`eXtreme`	`Using keyboard-interactive authentication.`
`14:52.19`	`eXtreme`	`Password:`
`14:52.19`	`eXtreme`	`Linux Mikey 2.6.8 #2 Tue Apr 19 21:41:43 EDT 2005 i686 GNU/Linux`
`14:52.19`	`eXtreme`	`The programs included with the Debian GNU/Linux system are free software;`
`14:52.22`	`eXtreme`	`the exact distribution terms for each program are described in the`
`14:52.25`	`eXtreme`	`individual files in /usr/share/doc/*/copyright.`
`14:52.27`	`eXtreme`	`Debian GNU/Linux comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY, to the extent`
`14:52.29`	`jpa-`	`....`
`14:52.29`	`eXtreme`	`oh crap`
`14:52.40`	`Aribeth`	`use paistbin`
`14:52.45`	`jpa-`	`please mess with your paste on some other channel :)`
`14:52.50`	`ruskie`	`lol`
`14:52.59`	`eXtreme`	`i'm not trying to paste anything :(`
`14:53.10`	`ruskie`	`you're just clicking the mouse a lot yes?`
`14:53.18`	`jpa-`	`hans-: are you the 'hans' i know or just somebody else? :)`
`14:53.31`	`eXtreme`	`ruskie: yes`
`14:54.05`	`hans-`	`hi jpa :)`
`14:54.15`	`jpa-`	`:)`
`14:55.20`	`hans-`	`has been a long time...`
`14:57.42`	`hans-`	`jpa, did you know something about a amd64 bug?`
`14:58.04`	`jpa-`	`no`
`14:58.10`	`jpa-`	`atleast i don't know if i did`
`14:59.00`	`SportChick`	`learner, brlcad: ping`
`14:59.27`	`hans-`	can`t play bzflag with my shiny new amd64 :(
`15:01.31`	`jpa-`	`give that to me, you'll get a once-shiny amd athlon xp 2200+`
`15:02.03`	`hans-`	`;)`
`15:04.45`	`*** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@68.32.118.193)`
`15:13.48`	`*** join/#bzflag who123 (n=586ec0c9@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`15:14.55`	`who123`	`hello`
`15:15.03`	`kirun`	`hi`
`15:15.46`	`who123`	`i would like some peeps to be on my team in the bzflag site`
`15:16.05`	`who123`	`its called FRESH CANNED MEAT`
`15:16.19`	`TheRedBaron`	`who123: /join #bzleague`
`15:16.28`	`TheRedBaron`	`or /join #bzchat`
`15:16.38`	`TheRedBaron`	`thats where alot of the league players hang out`
`15:16.45`	`who123`	`oh ok well its my first time here`
`15:16.58`	`TheRedBaron`	`not here, this channel is more for developing.`
`15:16.59`	`TheRedBaron`	`who123: yea, no problem, just helping you`
`15:17.07`	`who123`	`thx`
`15:17.14`	`TheRedBaron`	`Your welcome`
`15:20.48`	`TheRedBaron`	`burlycad: ping`
`15:20.53`	`TheRedBaron`	`brlcad: ping`
`15:21.57`	`*** join/#bzflag nitrosport_5 (n=Matt_Bas@12.46.85.159)`
`15:26.23`	`TheRedBaron`	`learner: ping`
`15:26.48`	`TheRedBaron`	`I'll take either of your identities... just not both at once, more than I could handle`
`15:38.47`	`*** join/#bzflag gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-139-127-22.range86-139.btcentralplus.com)`
`16:25.26`	`learner`	`TheRedBaron: heh`
`16:25.27`	`brlcad`	`TheRedBaron: heh`
`16:25.53`	`*** join/#bzflag Legoguy (n=Legoguy@ppp-70-228-24-64.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net)`
`16:25.59`	`TheRedBaron`	`eagds! both of them`
`16:26.09`	`jpa-`	`~lart learner`
`16:26.11`	`brlcad`	`SportChick: pong`
`16:26.18`	`jpa-`	`brlcad is more symphatic`
`16:26.30`	`learner`	`no he's not`
`16:26.38`	`brlcad`	`no i'm not ;)`
`16:26.43`	`eXtreme`	`lol`
`16:26.56`	`TheRedBaron`	`jpa- that was my next questions`
`16:27.32`	`learner`	`/me wanders off and leaves the fun to brlcad`
`16:27.44`	`learner`	`oop`
`16:27.59`	`brlcad`	`so .. what's up?`
`16:28.07`	`TheRedBaron`	`learner, burlycad, which of you is in charge of the bandwidth department?`
`16:28.20`	`brlcad`	`heh`
`16:28.34`	`brlcad`	`either, what's the real question?`
`16:29.09`	`TheRedBaron`	`I had forgotten your the host for shellshock.bzflag.bz`
`16:29.16`	`TheRedBaron`	`dutchrai's old server`
`16:29.19`	`brlcad`	`right`
`16:29.23`	`TheRedBaron`	`yet its still on 1.10`
`16:29.35`	`TheRedBaron`	`will it consider an upgrade to 2.0.5?`
`16:29.45`	`TheRedBaron`	`I am a fan of his maps. A HUGE fan`
`16:29.47`	`brlcad`	`what's still on 1.10? the server?`
`16:29.50`	`TheRedBaron`	`yes`
`16:29.57`	`brlcad`	`ah`
`16:30.03`	`TheRedBaron`	`a server which I admin :)`
`16:30.11`	`TheRedBaron`	`but had forgotten in it in the transition`
`16:30.16`	`TheRedBaron`	`I thought Dutchrai had taken it down`
`16:30.21`	`brlcad`	`have you tried getting in touch with dutchrai or has he disappeared again?`
`16:30.22`	`TheRedBaron`	`But then I remembered you hosted the bandwidth`
`16:30.25`	`TheRedBaron`	`he provided teh config`
`16:30.32`	`TheRedBaron`	`brlcad, I e-mailed him a month ago`
`16:30.36`	`TheRedBaron`	`he's moved on from bzflag`
`16:30.45`	`TheRedBaron`	`he says he might come back, but some other games and work have his attention`
`16:31.08`	`TheRedBaron`	`So, I'm asking you, If you don't have the time to manage it, I could.`
`16:31.37`	`brlcad`	`I certainly don't, nor do I mind if you do`
`16:31.40`	`TheRedBaron`	`seeing as you left on 1.10 :)`
`16:31.47`	`brlcad`	`i did not :)`
`16:31.54`	`TheRedBaron`	`oh right`
`16:32.05`	`TheRedBaron`	`that (^@# learner did it, my bad I forgot :)`
`16:32.36`	`learner`	`i didn't leave either :P .. just not nearly as much field time :(`
`16:32.57`	`TheRedBaron`	`so it got lost in the twilight zone?`
`16:33.06`	`brlcad`	`well no`
`16:33.16`	`brlcad`	`it's dutchrai's bzfs server`
`16:33.35`	`brlcad`	`i leave server operations up to their respective owners`
`16:33.45`	`TheRedBaron`	`You just own the bandwidth.`
`16:33.53`	`brlcad`	`i just provide the server, bandwidth, and basic rules`
`16:34.27`	`brlcad`	`i can step in, but I really don't want to .. and I'm not a happy puppy if I have to ;)`
`16:34.48`	`TheRedBaron`	`lol`
`16:35.03`	`brlcad`	`ask dutchrai to send me a note that he's willing to let you op the server`
`16:35.11`	`TheRedBaron`	`will do`
`16:35.12`	`brlcad`	`and I can set your access up`
`16:35.31`	`brlcad`	`maybe you could update the website too ;)`
`16:35.37`	`TheRedBaron`	`egads.`
`16:35.45`	`brlcad`	`you familiar with a unix command line I hope?`
`16:35.57`	`TheRedBaron`	`I can be i suppose :)`
`16:36.10`	`brlcad`	`hmm, that's not reassuring`
`16:36.41`	`TheRedBaron`	`ah.`
`16:37.00`	`brlcad`	`it's a bsd server, so to maintain his config, you'll at least need to understand process control, i/o redirection, basic filesystem management, and how to move around, edit files, etc`
`16:37.16`	`TheRedBaron`	`uh oh.`
`16:37.29`	`brlcad`	`not incredibly difficult, but if you've never done it, you're going to be looking at a black terminal wondering what to do`
`16:38.12`	`*** join/#bzflag Pimpi (n=frank@p5481A9C4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`16:38.12`	`TheRedBaron`	`i've worked dos command lines...`
`16:38.20`	`TheRedBaron`	`will that help the learning curve?`
`16:38.26`	`brlcad`	`this could be an opportunity for you to learn, given i "somewhat" know who you are ;)`
`16:38.35`	`brlcad`	`mildly help`
`16:38.38`	`orange`	`I'll help you TheRedBaron :-)`
`16:39.12`	`brlcad`	`there ya go, a mentor ;)`
`16:39.30`	`TheRedBaron`	`somehow, I feel I'm a fly, and I just got invited into the spider's parlor.`
`16:39.50`	`orange`	`nah, that's my realm`
`16:39.58`	`brlcad`	`next week's lesson: installing picogui and linux`
`16:40.34`	`TheRedBaron`	`yowch`
`16:41.11`	`*** join/#bzflag ToughShooter_ (n=ts@p54B023FE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`16:41.25`	`brlcad`	`purple_cow: picogui written in python?`
`16:41.33`	`brlcad`	`or C`
`16:41.46`	`brlcad`	`(and if it's python, how do you get that on phones?)`
`16:42.30`	`TheRedBaron`	`burlycad, does dutchrai have your e-mail?`
`16:42.40`	`brlcad`	`he should`
`16:43.27`	`brlcad`	`I can help get you and/or orange's accounts set up now or later, take your pick`
`16:44.24`	`TheRedBaron`	`if it takes more than 30min, then later, but if not, I can do now.`
`16:44.35`	`brlcad`	`takes about 5 min`
`16:57.29`	`*** join/#bzflag Legoguy (n=Legoguy@70.131.147.191)`
`16:59.09`	`*** join/#bzflag Legoguy_ (n=Legoguy@70.131.145.85)`
`17:03.06`	`*** join/#bzflag thijzeee (n=535381cc@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`17:04.50`	`thijzeee`	`~bzfquery 83.83.129.204:5154`
`17:05.22`	`thijzeee`	`~bzfquery 83.83.129.204:5154`
`17:05.44`	`orchid`	`Chestal: I think M1 plays bzflag on a 64bit machine`
`17:05.55`	`orchid`	`hello TheRedBaron`
`17:06.35`	`thijzeee`	`~bzfquery 83.83.129.204:5154`
`17:06.59`	`*** join/#bzflag Birdie (n=Birdie__@d54C34DE9.access.telenet.be)`
`17:10.21`	`*** part/#bzflag TheRedBaron (n=d8ada652@genesis.concept69.de)`
`17:11.02`	`*** join/#bzflag Legoguy_ (n=Legoguy@ppp-70-228-25-174.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net)`
`17:11.59`	`*** join/#bzflag thijzeee (n=535381cc@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`17:16.57`	`cosmos`	`~bzfquery tuxsux.hepcat.org`
`17:17.12`	`*** join/#bzflag blast007_ (i=1000@24-196-92-143.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)`
`17:23.06`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501)`
`17:23.06`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ`
`17:25.37`	`*** join/#bzflag gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-139-127-22.range86-139.btcentralplus.com)`
`17:25.38`	`*** join/#bzflag bz6815 (n=535381cc@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`17:25.57`	`*** join/#bzflag bz6230 (n=535381cc@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`17:26.25`	`bz6230`	`~bzfquery~bzfquery bzflag.secretplace.us:5255:5154`
`17:26.46`	`*** join/#bzflag bz2263 (n=535381cc@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`17:27.17`	`bz2263`	`~bzfquery 83.83.129.204:5154`
`17:28.00`	`gsnedders`	`~bzfquery viper.pimpi.org:5158`
`17:28.53`	`cosmos`	`hrm`
`17:35.33`	`*** join/#bzflag Legoguy_ (n=Legoguy@70.131.146.211)`
`17:40.21`	`cosmos`	`hey birdie`
`18:05.29`	`brlcad`	`cool, they're giving me unmetered bandwidth due to the outage sunday`
`18:05.55`	`orange`	`forever?`
`18:06.02`	`brlcad`	`heh, I doubt it`
`18:06.15`	`brlcad`	`probably for a few days, maybe through the month`
`18:06.24`	`orange`	`too bad :-)`
`18:07.00`	`brlcad`	`hard to sustain more than 4Mbit/s in a month without hosting porn ;)`
`18:07.19`	`cosmos`	`there you go`
`18:08.07`	`JeffM2501`	`I could do it! :)`
`18:08.23`	`brlcad`	`i'm curious how much bandwidth the list server and bzbb take`
`18:08.33`	`brlcad`	`can't imagine it's more than a quarter or half Mbit`
`18:08.37`	`JeffM2501`	`would a log parser show it?`
`18:08.44`	`brlcad`	`not really`
`18:08.54`	`brlcad`	`might give a lower bound`
`18:08.56`	`JeffM2501`	`slap a monitor on it`
`18:09.02`	`brlcad`	`he used to run mrtg`
`18:09.07`	`brlcad`	`not sure if he still does`
`18:09.30`	`JeffM2501`	`basicly all the trafic apache does is what it would be`
`18:09.32`	`brlcad`	`usually run the meter from the switch`
`18:09.53`	`brlcad`	`secretplace uses up nearly a mbit iirc`
`18:10.08`	`cosmos`	`apache logs all the bytes transferred in each request no?`
`18:10.16`	`orange`	`doesn't log the overhead though`
`18:10.26`	`cosmos`	`yeah`
`18:10.35`	`cosmos`	`start hosting porn and wait for your isp to come a calling`
`18:11.17`	`brlcad`	`I could, nothing in my agreement disallows it`
`18:11.26`	`brlcad`	`but i'd be more inclined to make it a freenode hub`
`18:11.44`	`brlcad`	`that'll eat up a couple mbits`
`18:11.50`	`cosmos`	`yes`
`18:12.02`	`brlcad`	`or get some better bzfs servers hosting ;)`
`18:12.32`	`cosmos`	`madcity appears to be a fan favorite`
`18:12.44`	`JeffM2501`	`I tell ya, reg only, subscription server :)`
`18:12.46`	`brlcad`	`trepan's lasers server is the only reason it's using the 5-10% it's using now`
`18:12.55`	`JeffM2501`	`5$ a month via paypall`
`18:13.10`	`brlcad`	`subscribing what?`
`18:13.18`	`cosmos`	`pay to play`
`18:13.22`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`18:13.24`	`brlcad`	`ahh`
`18:13.36`	`JeffM2501`	`well admined, cheap subscriotion server`
`18:13.46`	`JeffM2501`	`then anyone who cheats, paid you for it :)`
`18:14.09`	`brlcad`	`that's not a fully horrible idea actually ;)`
`18:14.20`	`JeffM2501`	`if you kept it cheap enough and reasonable, it could be a hit`
`18:14.30`	`JeffM2501`	`small enough charge to just keep out the asshats`
`18:14.48`	`brlcad`	`possibly`
`18:14.50`	`cosmos`	`$2 is enough to scare off the basement dwellers`
`18:15.14`	`JeffM2501`	`and if you felt bad about taking the money, have tournys every quarter with real prizes :)`
`18:15.21`	`brlcad`	`X/year Y/month Z/day`
`18:15.35`	`JeffM2501`	`paypall can do recuring subscriptions`
`18:15.36`	`brlcad`	`ooh, now i like that idea`
`18:15.40`	`cosmos`	`i was thinking about offering a small monthly prize for best players etc`
`18:15.49`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah have a ladder system`
`18:15.55`	`brlcad`	`play _here_ and paid!`
`18:16.03`	`JeffM2501`	`well after you pay :)`
`18:16.13`	`brlcad`	`there's a 'get' that never made it in there too`
`18:16.45`	`brlcad`	`hm`
`18:16.46`	`JeffM2501`	`you'd probably want to make the prizes for an event, not per month, otherwise you just end up with the no job play all the time people winning`
`18:17.21`	`JeffM2501`	`kinda give everyone a fair chance for the golden ring`
`18:17.28`	`cosmos`	`true`
`18:17.31`	`JeffM2501`	`like an elimination tourny`
`18:17.50`	`cosmos`	`and if you get banned for cheating you pay a $25 reinstatement fee`
`18:17.51`	`cosmos`	`teehee`
`18:17.52`	`JeffM2501`	`then you could make some rules that state you can't win 2x in a row`
`18:17.59`	`brlcad`	`throw up a web site that shows how much the tourny jackpot is up to if it's some % of the subscription proceeds`
`18:18.07`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`18:18.17`	`JeffM2501`	`if you make it cheap enough people will do it`
`18:18.24`	`JeffM2501`	`I think it has to be under 10$ a month`
`18:18.29`	`brlcad`	`definitely`
`18:18.44`	`JeffM2501`	`5$ would get 95% of your adult players`
`18:18.58`	`JeffM2501`	`and probably help out a lot with the cost`
`18:19.31`	`brlcad`	`it would be nice to have a european server too`
`18:19.33`	`JeffM2501`	`now I have pattented the idea`
`18:19.37`	`cosmos`	`haha`
`18:19.37`	`brlcad`	`heh`
`18:19.43`	`JeffM2501`	`but I'd be willing to license it to you for 1.4 million`
`18:19.49`	`JeffM2501`	`;)`
`18:20.01`	`brlcad`	`1.4 million bits of data .. no problem ;)`
`18:20.11`	`brlcad`	`cat /dev/random > JeffM2501`
`18:21.29`	`brlcad`	`if we/I did do something like that, it'd be nice to have an admin crew that got paid to keep operations going too`
`18:22.06`	`*** join/#bzflag wizatcomp (i=wizatcom@pool-71-240-225-169.fred.east.verizon.net)`
`18:23.09`	`*** join/#bzflag DTRemenak\|RDP (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)`
`18:23.09`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+v DTRemenak\|RDP] by ChanServ`
`18:23.17`	`brlcad`	`that would, however, justify a registered-only server where players could play in peace, have fun, maybe set up an invite system like going to a public pool`
`18:23.48`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah that would be it's largest advantage`
`18:24.06`	`JeffM2501`	`it would keep your jokers out`
`18:24.18`	`brlcad`	`hopefully ;)`
`18:24.52`	`JeffM2501`	`tho it would add a bit of "service" mentatlity to the players, they would expect a level of comitment, since they are paying for it`
`18:25.03`	`brlcad`	`yep`
`18:25.03`	`JeffM2501`	`probalby more requests for maps and settings`
`18:25.07`	`JeffM2501`	`and uptime`
`18:25.17`	`JeffM2501`	`also short problem turnaround`
`18:25.24`	`brlcad`	`uptime is easy -- finding popular maps would be the tough part`
`18:25.27`	`JeffM2501`	`so you'd have to have a support infrastructure`
`18:25.36`	`JeffM2501`	`you could let each user vote :)`
`18:25.40`	`brlcad`	`though starting as a league server could definitely help`
`18:25.44`	`*** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)`
`18:25.45`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+v DTRemenak] by ChanServ`
`18:26.35`	`JeffM2501`	`if I was to do it as a league, I'd make it have a more strict play schedule`
`18:26.44`	`JeffM2501`	`with scheduled games`
`18:26.58`	`JeffM2501`	`like a real sports leauge`
`18:27.09`	`JeffM2501`	`none of this "anyone want to match"`
`18:28.07`	`brlcad`	`hmm, although.. it could work as a death-match style 1 on 1 or 2 on 2 pairwise eliminations`
`18:28.18`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`18:28.36`	`JeffM2501`	`the bigest thing is you don't want to make it too easy for those players who have more time to dominate your rankings`
`18:28.40`	`brlcad`	`if you're the top dog, you win the jackpot`
`18:29.10`	`brlcad`	`though that can be controlled, like you said -- limit their ability to win twice`
`18:29.18`	`brlcad`	`or at least in a row`
`18:29.22`	`JeffM2501`	`if I was going to do it, I'd run it as team CTF and have 2 servers, 1 for just fun play, practce, etc.. and another that runs scheduled games, with a published set of games for the prize`
`18:29.54`	`JeffM2501`	`then you have the fun server for every day play, and one for the grity cash games`
`18:29.59`	`JeffM2501`	`where every team plays the same number of games`
`18:30.01`	`brlcad`	`yeah`
`18:30.23`	`JeffM2501`	`that seems most fair to me`
`18:30.34`	`JeffM2501`	`like the kids socer league :)`
`18:30.38`	`*** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone)`
`18:30.38`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ`
`18:30.56`	`brlcad`	`still not so sure about the scheduled games -- though it could simply be a matter of players scheduling their match`
`18:31.23`	`JeffM2501`	`well you could let them pick when they wanted, but make them have a fixed number of games that count`
`18:31.23`	`brlcad`	`i could write up the program to pair everyone up, post the hierarchy to the website`
`18:31.28`	`brlcad`	`you sign up for match times`
`18:31.31`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`18:31.42`	`JeffM2501`	`you can do it and be flexable in times`
`18:31.52`	`JeffM2501`	`mostly I just think you can only have X games count per team`
`18:32.12`	`JeffM2501`	`otherwise 2 teams could just match the hell outa each other and win`
`18:32.17`	`JeffM2501`	`and trade off each season`
`18:32.22`	`brlcad`	`i'd probably just pick from some standard tournament rulebook`
`18:32.34`	`brlcad`	`like that for soccer or kung-fu competitions, etc`
`18:32.38`	`JeffM2501`	`if you don't play the min matches against difrent teams you are out for the season`
`18:32.44`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`18:32.58`	`JeffM2501`	`well like soccer, they pick who you play and when`
`18:32.59`	`brlcad`	`yeah, and if you don't schedule in time or don't show up, you forfeit`
`18:33.26`	`JeffM2501`	`should have a way for them to play freeplay and practice games too`
`18:33.26`	`JeffM2501`	`for fun`
`18:33.37`	`JeffM2501`	`could make a plugin that enforced the teams durning matches too`
`18:33.42`	`JeffM2501`	`read all the data from the website :)`
`18:33.46`	`brlcad`	`the only difference with sports matchs, though is that everyone is usually in the same timezone/neighborhood/state, etc`
`18:34.02`	`JeffM2501`	`true`
`18:34.09`	`JeffM2501`	`well that's why you make it flexable`
`18:34.11`	`JeffM2501`	`time wise`
`18:34.15`	`brlcad`	`yep`
`18:34.21`	`JeffM2501`	`more effort on the teams part, but it's what you have to do`
`18:34.48`	`JeffM2501`	`basicly you have to have a motivated team capitan`
`18:34.52`	`brlcad`	`heh, it'd only take about a dozen people to pay for the server's bandwidth`
`18:35.14`	`JeffM2501`	`well then the rest could go into paying admins, and prizes`
`18:35.24`	`JeffM2501`	`coudl use it to support the forums/list server too`
`18:35.39`	`brlcad`	`which would still probably all go into a prize or to admins, not looking to make a profit really (unless they show up in hoardes)`
`18:36.02`	`JeffM2501`	`if you had cash left over you could offer code feature bountys`
`18:36.54`	`Tupone`	`hmm?`
`18:37.13`	`brlcad`	`code bounties, that could get wierd ;)`
`18:37.34`	`JeffM2501`	`don't some other projects do it?`
`18:37.46`	`brlcad`	`sure, it's doable`
`18:37.55`	`brlcad`	`just could get wierd given what some people want ;)`
`18:38.01`	`JeffM2501`	`you could have features that people could check out, if they do it in the specified time, they get the cash`
`18:38.02`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`18:38.13`	`brlcad`	`"i want a karma system" cough ;)`
`18:38.16`	`JeffM2501`	`you'd have to make the features reasonable`
`18:38.16`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`18:38.47`	`JeffM2501`	`probably at that point formalise the devs into a council and have them vote on features that are wanted,`
`18:39.07`	`JeffM2501`	`but now I'm talkin crazy`
`18:39.11`	`brlcad`	`form a non-profit to manage the funds`
`18:39.18`	`Tupone`	`:/ I don't want new features, I want bug fixes`
`18:39.34`	`brlcad`	`i want food`
`18:39.41`	`Tupone`	`I want girls`
`18:39.48`	`brlcad`	`and alcohol`
`18:40.06`	`Tupone`	`not tobacco`
`18:40.10`	`Tupone`	`I don't smoke`
`18:40.16`	`brlcad`	`tampoco`
`18:40.51`	`brlcad`	`mmmmm.. that'll do`
`18:41.38`	`Tupone`	`and brlcad`
`18:42.26`	`brlcad`	`feel the love`
`18:42.59`	`Tupone`	`~spell convergining`
`18:43.17`	`retro`	`~spell Tupone`
`18:43.17`	`SportChick`	`Tupone: typo`
`18:43.21`	`SportChick`	`converging`
`18:43.35`	`SportChick`	`hehe, ibot is funnny`
`18:44.09`	`Tupone`	`what about coverging in rome ? next year, about on january ?`
`18:44.35`	`SportChick`	`hehe`
`18:44.36`	`SportChick`	`too soon`
`18:44.56`	`JeffM2501`	`whos' paying for plane tickets :)`
`18:45.09`	`SportChick`	`ooo Tupone's flying us all to italy!`
`18:45.17`	`Tupone`	`lol`
`18:45.21`	`JeffM2501`	`will he keep interpol off our backs?`
`18:46.45`	`SportChick`	`hehe`
`18:49.02`	`SportChick`	`oh!`
`18:49.04`	`SportChick`	`retro: hi`
`18:49.12`	`retro`	`Hi SportChick`
`18:49.26`	`SportChick`	`retro: long time no see`
`18:49.48`	`retro`	`ya. Secretplace is dead late at night these days, which is when I usually play`
`18:49.59`	`retro`	`so, I've been trying other servers.`
`18:50.01`	`cosmos`	`hepcat seems to get busier at night`
`18:50.07`	`SportChick`	`retro: ah, I see. I've been playing ctf mostly and ducati much`
`18:50.21`	`retro`	`I really should try and play earlier when others are on secretplace. I miss the gang.`
`18:50.46`	`Aribeth`	`sleepycows just seems to be plaing dead`
`18:50.53`	`cosmos`	`i need to find a new good ctf map`
`18:51.06`	`retro`	`tybox has a nice rotating collection of ctf maps`
`18:51.18`	`retro`	`and decent lag and lots of players late at night.`
`18:51.18`	`SportChick`	`retro: yeah, I know`
`18:51.21`	`SportChick`	`'cept I hate overlord`
`18:51.29`	`retro`	`well, that's late at night CA time.`
`18:51.43`	`ToughShooter`	`hehe, nowdays I hate overlord, too`
`18:51.51`	`retro`	`yeah, I don't like all the maps on tybox, but some of them are cool`
`18:52.26`	`cosmos`	`tybox is the old hepcat rotation with some twists`
`18:52.27`	`retro`	`It's funny how server popularity seems to rotate. It would make an interesting sociology dissertation. :)`
`18:52.44`	`cosmos`	`i started with pillbox, then overlord, then an overlord/babel revival`
`18:52.52`	`cosmos`	`ow im on to ffa maps`
`18:53.36`	`*** join/#bzflag Birdie_ (n=Birdie__@d54C34DE9.access.telenet.be)`
`18:53.43`	`cosmos`	`lo birdie`
`18:54.07`	`SportChick`	`Birdie: hiya`
`18:54.26`	`Birdie_`	`hey`
`18:54.28`	`Birdie_`	`hello sc`
`18:55.09`	`ToughShooter`	`AFAIK I played at secretplace before SportChick was there. It was a whole lot more popular in the past.`
`18:55.30`	`SportChick`	`ToughShooter: you played BEFORE I was there? that's a really really long time ago :)`
`18:55.38`	`JeffM2501`	`years and years`
`18:55.43`	`SportChick`	`hehe`
`18:55.43`	`retro`	`TS was only a small boy then. :)`
`18:55.46`	`SportChick`	`bz-years anyway`
`18:56.07`	`ToughShooter`	`that's why I said AFAIK`
`18:56.18`	`Aribeth`	`sleepycows used to ba a really hot server`
`18:56.28`	`SportChick`	`well, I've only been playing there since I returned from my trip`
`18:56.33`	`SportChick`	`guess that was around october 2003`
`18:56.42`	`SportChick`	`been admin there since November 2003 iirc`
`18:56.49`	`retro`	`What was that server with wings flags and GM only? Lots of water? you always started in a tube?`
`18:56.59`	`SportChick`	`that was jpa's`
`18:57.03`	`SportChick`	`I think it was oceans`
`18:57.07`	`SportChick`	`or something like that`
`18:57.10`	`retro`	`Ya. I miss that. Is it still around?`
`18:57.13`	`Birdie_`	`yea! that one rocked`
`18:57.18`	`ToughShooter`	`all I know is that I was banned twice from secretplace`
`18:57.26`	`Birdie_`	`i was once:)`
`18:57.45`	`SportChick`	`sheesh, what do you guys do this time :)`
`18:57.54`	`ToughShooter`	`before the first ban I never saw SportChick there but a player called "FMT"`
`18:58.00`	`Birdie_`	`i talked dutch in public to my friend..`
`18:58.08`	`retro`	`ya, I've never been banned. I got nastygrams from an admin once or twice...`
`18:58.10`	`ToughShooter`	`today the list server doesn't even know that callsign`
`18:58.27`	`retro`	`I believe early on in my bzflag playing, SportChick had to admonish me. :)`
`18:58.29`	`JeffM2501`	`when SP started there was no global auth`
`18:58.34`	`JeffM2501`	`I did local auth for SP`
`18:58.39`	`JeffM2501`	`way back in the day`
`18:58.41`	`SportChick`	`yeah, I remember that`
`18:58.42`	`ToughShooter`	`there was "Full metal tank" (I might mess with the case of words) in email`
`18:58.46`	`SportChick`	`wayyy wayyyyyyy back in the day`
`18:58.55`	`JeffM2501`	`that was done for 1.10`
`18:58.59`	`Birdie_`	`and i once was warned for my language to..for saying "damn" :(`
`18:59.13`	`SportChick`	`JeffM2501: I thought that went back as far as 1.7?`
`18:59.13`	`JeffM2501`	`SportChick now you make me feel old ;)`
`18:59.22`	`SportChick`	`JeffM2501: hehe`
`18:59.28`	`JeffM2501`	`no I did local auth in 1.9`
`18:59.29`	`purple_cow`	`JeffM2501: 1.10 is "way back in the day" ?`
`18:59.29`	`JeffM2501`	`IIRC`
`18:59.33`	`ToughShooter`	`I think I started when 1.10.2 came out`
`18:59.35`	`JeffM2501`	`purple_cow, apernatly`
`18:59.43`	`SportChick`	`hrm - could have sworn it was older than that`
`18:59.45`	`JeffM2501`	`1.7b2!`
`18:59.49`	`JeffM2501`	`that is back in the day`
`18:59.56`	`JeffM2501`	`maybe I did it for like G4`
`19:00.01`	`JeffM2501`	`I don't remember`
`19:00.07`	`purple_cow`	`teehee, i remember b2`
`19:00.18`	`JeffM2501`	`b2 was pre open source`
`19:00.24`	`*** join/#bzflag hans- (n=hanseman@dslb-084-058-015-121.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`19:00.29`	`purple_cow`	`i think the first time i really started was e`
`19:00.41`	`SportChick`	`I think e was my first as well`
`19:00.52`	`JeffM2501`	`e7 was many people's first IIRC`
`19:00.53`	`SportChick`	`it was after I got married - sometime in summer of 2002 iirc`
`19:01.08`	`ToughShooter`	`SportChick: Eww, that long ago?`
`19:01.11`	`JeffM2501`	`b2 was from 97-98`
`19:01.42`	`JeffM2501`	`c2 is the first CVS tag`
`19:01.46`	`SportChick`	`ToughShooter: well, I played for about 2 months off and on..I was horrible. Played on turkeymoon. Then I left for a year and didn't start again until oct/nov '03`
`19:02.21`	`*** part/#bzflag hans- (n=hanseman@dslb-084-058-015-121.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`19:02.25`	`*** join/#bzflag Birdie_ (n=Birdie__@d54C34DE9.access.telenet.be)`
`19:02.31`	`Birdie`	`huh?`
`19:02.37`	`ToughShooter`	`SportChick: We were all horrible I think. I produced -50 scores in half an hour`
`19:02.41`	`Birdie`	`i just hosted my normal callsign and switched to this`
`19:02.42`	`Tupone`	`no server listed in the listserver yet :( (except mine)`
`19:02.44`	`Birdie`	`and now the other is joining?`
`19:02.55`	`SportChick`	`1/2 an hour?! I'll bet it didn't take me 5 minutes to get to -50`
`19:03.06`	`purple_cow`	`i think fall '02 was the last time i seriously played :P`
`19:03.25`	`JeffM2501`	`probably was a decks :)`
`19:03.39`	`SportChick`	`mmmmmmmmmmmm decks@!`
`19:03.45`	`purple_cow`	`i'm sure it was a decks`
`19:04.00`	`*** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@63.147.94.149)`
`19:04.02`	`Tupone`	`~decks`
`19:04.04`	`ibot`	`methinks decks is http://bzgirl.bakadigital.com/decks.html`
`19:04.41`	`purple_cow`	`welp, i'd better get to school`
`19:04.45`	`JeffM2501`	`I think I beat you for time not playing :)`
`19:04.56`	`JeffM2501`	`still trying to catch tim :)`
`19:05.22`	`Tupone`	`JeffM2501: I saw tim playing, alone but playing, Never seen you :)`
`19:05.28`	`JeffM2501`	`exactly`
`19:05.32`	`JeffM2501`	`I am catching uP!!!!`
`19:05.34`	`ToughShooter`	`Hadn't Sporty said recently that tim was playing? :o`
`19:05.43`	`*** join/#bzflag YAKarsten (i=karsten@sourcemage/wizard/pdpc.sustaining.BearPerson)`
`19:05.55`	`Tupone`	`bryjen: your server is outdated :/`
`19:05.59`	`SportChick`	`hehe, why do I get blamed for everything?`
`19:06.18`	`*** join/#bzflag bz6689 (n=9de49c03@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`19:06.28`	`ToughShooter`	`I remember you said tim + playing + silvercat`
`19:06.48`	`ToughShooter`	`maybe my brain needs ECC RAM for error correction`
`19:06.54`	`*** part/#bzflag bz6689 (n=9de49c03@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`19:07.45`	`Tupone`	`:)`
`19:07.52`	`JeffM2501`	`Tupone, when did you start?`
`19:08.00`	`Tupone`	`1.7g0`
`19:08.23`	`JeffM2501`	`heh, back when 1.8 was going to save the world :)`
`19:08.42`	`SportChick`	`hehe`
`19:08.52`	`Tupone`	`sometime when I was looking for a game to play at linuxclubm before it was opened. so like 3 years ago`
`19:08.54`	`ToughShooter`	`How have those old versions been?`
`19:09.42`	`JeffM2501`	`how have they been?`
`19:09.47`	`JeffM2501`	`take them out to lunch`
`19:09.49`	`JeffM2501`	`ask them :)`
`19:10.11`	`ToughShooter`	`I mean, are they much worse than 1.10.2?`
`19:10.23`	`Tupone`	`ToughShooter: in the screenshot at SF you can see me while killing a tank with GM, 1.7g2 IIRC`
`19:10.31`	`JeffM2501`	`depends on what you thing is "worse"`
`19:10.35`	`JeffM2501`	`some feel they are better`
`19:10.58`	`Tupone`	`I was not able to play it anymore :( my machine crashes on those`
`19:11.05`	`ToughShooter`	`I mean more bugs, graphical glitches etc`
`19:11.06`	`Tupone`	`s/was/am/`
`19:11.16`	`JeffM2501`	`simpler time :)`
`19:11.28`	`JeffM2501`	`simpler code`
`19:11.32`	`ToughShooter`	`Tupone: sourceforge is slooow today`
`19:11.33`	`JeffM2501`	`boxes ruled the day`
`19:11.54`	`Tupone`	`I see SF slower with the new look`
`19:12.20`	`JeffM2501`	`IIRC b2 ran a while ago when I tried it`
`19:12.57`	`Tupone`	`JeffM2501: is there out in the wild a library to debug openGL calls ?`
`19:13.14`	`JeffM2501`	`mesa`
`19:13.14`	`Tupone`	`like to trace them all ? while working`
`19:13.20`	`BenUrban`	`bah`
`19:13.22`	`BenUrban`	`<-- slow`
`19:13.34`	`trepan`	`Tupone: there are a couple iirc`
`19:13.37`	`JeffM2501`	`I thought I had heard of a couple`
`19:13.39`	`JeffM2501`	`from him :)`
`19:13.40`	`trepan`	`one uses LD_PRELOAD`
`19:14.40`	`BenUrban`	`but of course that's only for gentoo`
`19:15.20`	`trepan`	`Tupone: http://opengl.org/ has http://bugle.sourceforge.net/ as its second news item`
`19:15.37`	`trepan`	`haven't tried it, plus don't know exactly what yuo're trying to do :)`
`19:16.39`	`Tupone`	`hehe, want to look at why my system crash at playing with old 1.7 :/ when I got time`
`19:17.20`	`Tupone`	`I still have my machine at linuXclub that are not so powerful :( I should update them all`
`19:17.24`	`jpa-`	`retro: yes, it is still on, in rotation`
`19:17.31`	`jpa-`	`retro: just not many players anymore..`
`19:17.59`	`retro`	`ah, thanks. How many maps are in the rotation?`
`19:18.24`	`jpa-`	`3`
`19:18.25`	`jpa-`	`2h rotation`
`19:18.50`	`jpa-`	`River / Sniper / Ocean, box.kapsi.fi:50140`
`19:19.12`	`retro`	`cool. I'll have to see if I can get a group there when ocean is up and running. Does it change at the top of the hour?`
`19:19.16`	`jpa-`	`it is actually possible to "force" rotation by joining the empty server and then rejoining until the wanted map is there`
`19:20.17`	`jpa-`	`nah, because it resets every time it is empty, the rotation time is actually _maximum_ 2h, no minimum, so it doesn't change on even hours`
`19:20.42`	`jpa-`	`s/even hours/top of the hour/`
`19:21.53`	`retro`	`ok, I understand. I'll have to get a battle brewing there. :-)`
`19:22.05`	`retro`	`Maybe I can steal a few folks from tybox or hepcat tonight. :)`
`19:22.26`	`jpa-`	`isn't playing with stolen players illegal? ,)`
`19:22.59`	`retro`	`only if I'm caught.`
`19:25.16`	`trepan`	`if I added a new permission called "flagGod" for controlling individual flags, would anyone be offended?`
`19:25.41`	`Tupone`	`Master ?`
`19:26.07`	`Tupone`	`I dunno if some is offended, me not, but better avoid IMHO`
`19:26.16`	`trepan`	`Master works for me`
`19:27.03`	`JeffM2501`	`LordOfTheFlags!`
`19:27.03`	`jpa-`	`i'd call it FLAGCONTROL, in theme with other permissions`
`19:27.27`	`jpa-`	`theyre not BANNER but BAN...`
`19:28.59`	`retro`	`and what powers would a flagGod have?`
`19:29.59`	`trepan`	`<PROTECTED>`
`19:30.32`	`retro`	`this sounds like a feature that will be abused...`
`19:30.51`	`retro`	`with great power comes great responsibility.`
`19:31.01`	`trepan`	`hence new the perm`
`19:31.02`	`retro`	`unfortunately, we're all human, and easily corrupted. :)`
`19:32.33`	`JeffM2501`	`speak for yourself meatsack`
`19:36.55`	`JeffM2501`	`why would I need money for that?`
`19:37.17`	`JeffM2501`	`and what has he done that he deserves to die?`
`19:37.33`	`Aribeth`	`~lart jpa-`
`19:37.38`	`jpa-`	`:(`
`19:37.43`	`*** join/#bzflag Thonolan (n=Thonolan@iD4CC1A40.versanet.de)`
`19:37.46`	`Aribeth`	`ouch`
`19:38.37`	`JeffM2501`	`that would indeed vanquish him`
`19:39.00`	`JeffM2501`	`and that's what I'd expect out of a paly :)`
`19:39.23`	`Thonolan`	`jeffm2501 ping`
`19:39.31`	`Aribeth`	`poor jpa- lost his head :P`
`19:39.40`	`JeffM2501`	`Thonolan, ?`
`19:39.51`	`Thonolan`	`good evening`
`19:39.52`	`JeffM2501`	`Aribeth, did you put some smite on it?`
`19:39.57`	`JeffM2501`	`sup`
`19:40.11`	`Aribeth`	`i did it hilander style`
`19:40.16`	`Thonolan`	`i want your bot guu for our team irc bzi inc`
`19:40.19`	`JeffM2501`	`ooooo`
`19:40.25`	`Thonolan`	`iam member of this team`
`19:40.32`	`JeffM2501`	`channel name?`
`19:40.44`	`Thonolan`	`bz-inc`
`19:40.56`	`Thonolan`	`for bz incorporated`
`19:40.57`	`JeffM2501`	`guu join #bz-inc`
`19:41.05`	`Thonolan`	`thanks jeff`
`19:41.07`	`JeffM2501`	`guu flush`
`19:41.08`	`Guu`	`JeffM2501: okay`
`19:41.31`	`JeffM2501`	`np`
`19:41.39`	`JeffM2501`	`guu status`
`19:41.40`	`Guu`	`JeffM2501: Since Thu Oct 20 11:50:53 2005, there have been 0 modifications and 0 questions. I have been awake for 3 weeks, 5 days, 0 hours, 50 minutes, and 45 seconds this session, and currently reference 1492 factoids. Addressing is in require mode.`
`19:41.50`	`JeffM2501`	`yay for guu`
`19:42.15`	`Thonolan`	`bz incorporated say thanks to jeff`
`19:42.47`	`JeffM2501`	`wonder if brlcad would host her`
`19:43.17`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03trepan 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/ (BanCommands.cxx Permissions.cxx Permissions.h commands.cxx):`
`19:43.17`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: - added the flagMaster permission for fine control of flags`
`19:43.17`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: - did a little cleanup on the online help`
`19:44.41`	`Thonolan`	`bye and thx again`
`19:45.38`	`JeffM2501`	`trepan, lets say a material does a resetmat, and then dosn't define a color, would it be the default for the object? or some generic default?`
`19:45.54`	`trepan`	`1 1 1 1`
`19:46.00`	`JeffM2501`	`good old white :)`
`19:46.34`	`JeffM2501`	`what happens if you have recursive refrences to materials?`
`19:46.38`	`JeffM2501`	`"bad" things?`
`19:46.56`	`trepan`	`the last 'matref' is simply copied into the current material`
`19:47.11`	`JeffM2501`	`how do you detect it?`
`19:47.19`	`trepan`	`huh? i'm missing something`
`19:47.27`	`JeffM2501`	`a mat can ref another mat`
`19:47.29`	`JeffM2501`	`right?`
`19:47.37`	`trepan`	`ya, but it's a full copy`
`19:47.50`	`JeffM2501`	`and what if that mat refs the first mat`
`19:47.57`	`JeffM2501`	`woudl it not keep looping forever?`
`19:48.20`	`trepan`	`material can noly be backward referenced`
`19:49.02`	`JeffM2501`	`so if it refs one in the chain allready it stopes?`
`19:49.42`	`trepan`	`i'm still not getting it (zero coffee intake so far)`
`19:49.48`	`trepan`	`you can't create loops`
`19:49.54`	`JeffM2501`	`object uses mat 1`
`19:49.58`	`JeffM2501`	`mat one uses mat 2`
`19:50.01`	`JeffM2501`	`mat 2 uses mat 3`
`19:50.04`	`JeffM2501`	`mat 3 uses mat 1`
`19:50.43`	`JeffM2501`	`when you load the object at some point you have to walk the mats right ?`
`19:50.44`	`trepan`	`it's that backwards referencing thing again`
`19:51.06`	`JeffM2501`	`so when you hit mat 3 and it refs mat 1, do you throw an error? or just stop?`
`19:51.15`	`trepan`	`1 -> 2 -> 3 -> 1 can't happen`
`19:51.28`	`JeffM2501`	`I could make a file that does it`
`19:51.46`	`JeffM2501`	`coudn't I?`
`19:51.47`	`trepan`	`i forget, think it just whines about 'could not find material'`
`19:52.06`	`JeffM2501`	`do mats have to be defined before they are refed?`
`19:52.08`	`trepan`	`"couldn't find reference material: "`
`19:52.21`	`trepan`	`ya, that's what i mean by backwards referenced`
`19:52.25`	`JeffM2501`	`ok I get it now`
`19:52.33`	`JeffM2501`	`so I have to find a way to prevent that :)`
`19:52.51`	`JeffM2501`	`since I've not stored them in any order when they are being edited`
`19:52.56`	`trepan`	`ah, you allow forwards referencing for mats?`
`19:53.16`	`JeffM2501`	`right now it's just a glob of named classes`
`19:53.23`	`JeffM2501`	`it dosnt' have an order`
`19:53.29`	`JeffM2501`	`since I allow editing willy nilly`
`19:53.33`	`trepan`	`or you could simply only use resolved materials (no refs)`
`19:53.40`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`19:53.55`	`trepan`	`the matrefs and junk are mostly for hand editing`
`19:53.58`	`*** join/#bzflag Legoguy (n=Legoguy@adsl-68-79-27-55.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net)`
`19:54.01`	`JeffM2501`	`just thinking how to do it`
`19:54.14`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah I could just copy and merge when they ref another mat`
`19:54.18`	`trepan`	`although i've had occasion to want such a thing while doing modelling`
`19:54.20`	`JeffM2501`	`but then that dosn't keep an association`
`19:54.38`	`trepan`	`doing a recursion check would be fairly simple`
`19:54.40`	`JeffM2501`	`It would be cool to have a base mat with the texture, then sub mats with colors`
`19:54.53`	`JeffM2501`	`then change the base mat and have all the textures update`
`19:54.57`	`JeffM2501`	`I can just detect it and`
`19:55.08`	`JeffM2501`	`write them out in the right order`
`19:55.35`	`trepan`	`na, just don't allow recursion`
`19:55.35`	`Chestal`	`(offtopic): do the Linux kernel guys really want me to use gcc-2.95?`
`19:56.05`	`JeffM2501`	`well I'll have a stack so If they try to add backwards I can tell em to stuff it`
`19:56.53`	`trepan`	`Chestal: heh, 2 major revs delay`
`19:57.52`	`Chestal`	`the best match I have is gcc-2.95.4 (instead of the .3 the README dictates)`
`19:58.06`	`Chestal`	`they also talk about some very, very old egcs in there`
`19:58.51`	`ToughShooter`	`before I forget, I've seen a picture of cross section of cells made with an electron microscope. It looked almost exactly like bz's gras`
`20:06.59`	`*** join/#bzflag cynyr (n=cynyr@207.75.38.99)`
`20:07.47`	`cynyr`	`~bzfquery afrink.homelinux.org`
`20:08.30`	`cynyr`	`~bzfquery afrink.homelinux.org`
`20:08.39`	`brlcad`	`JeffM2501: fine with me, I can make an account for you now if you want`
`20:08.45`	`brlcad`	`A`
`20:08.45`	`brlcad`	`JeffM2501: fine with me, I can make an account for you now if you want`
`20:08.56`	`brlcad`	`oooooops`
`20:09.01`	`ToughShooter`	`:)`
`20:09.24`	`brlcad`	`shouldn't up-arrow-enter so quickly ;)`
`20:14.36`	`*** join/#bzflag Legoguy_ (n=Legoguy@adsl-68-79-59-136.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net)`
`20:16.58`	`*** join/#bzflag Birdie (n=Birdie__@d54C34DE9.access.telenet.be)`
`20:19.01`	`*** join/#bzflag \|zongo\| (n=zongo@84-72-153-129.dclient.hispeed.ch)`
`20:20.34`	`*** join/#bzflag donny_baker (n=0c289623@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`20:22.23`	`*** join/#bzflag Guest262 (n=d59bc880@genesis.concept69.de)`
`20:26.49`	`Grumbler`	`brlcad, stop spamming or we are going to have to ban you ;)`
`20:27.04`	`brlcad`	`ban me!`
`20:27.07`	`brlcad`	`:)`
`20:27.18`	`Grumbler`	`heh`
`20:27.28`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o Grumbler] by brlcad`
`20:27.58`	`Grumbler`	`yeah, dont be doing that.......power goes to my head, and i start skipping jury duty and get speeding tickets`
`20:28.26`	`brlcad`	`hehe`
`20:28.57`	`Grumbler`	`enjoy the weather we are having btw, its not going to last.....28 degree nights coming`
`20:32.28`	`Grumbler`	`you have previous comments retro`
`20:32.50`	`retro`	`heh, before you joined, I mentioned how humans are easily corrupted by power. :)`
`20:37.32`	`*** join/#bzflag gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-139-127-22.range86-139.btcentralplus.com)`
`20:37.55`	`ToughShooter`	`it's systemic, if you cut this fact out of humans, they won't be humans anymore. it's our nature`
`20:38.04`	`bryjen`	`~weather kowb`
`20:38.42`	`bryjen`	`that doesn't mention the tornado watch`
`20:39.23`	`ToughShooter`	`~weather EDDF`
`20:41.14`	`bryjen`	`!weather owensboro, ky`
`20:41.16`	`Guu`	`bryjen: The current temperature in Weather Underground is 32�F.`
`20:41.51`	`cynyr`	`!weather marquette, mi`
`20:41.52`	`Guu`	`cynyr: The current temperature in Weather Underground is 36�F.`
`20:43.22`	`*** join/#bzflag ToughShooter (n=ts@p54B023FE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`20:44.03`	`*** join/#bzflag ToughShooter (n=ts@p54B023FE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`20:49.01`	`*** join/#bzflag Thumper_ (n=bernt@CPE000102d0fe75-CM0012256ecbde.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`20:56.58`	`*** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=TD-Linux@24-159-197-101.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com)`
`21:08.39`	`*** join/#bzflag _st4lker (n=st4lker@neverland.in-ulm.de)`
`21:26.50`	`*** join/#bzflag bz2152 (n=18dae8d5@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`21:27.16`	`bz2152`	`Hi.`
`21:27.33`	`blast007`	`bz2152: hello`
`21:27.38`	`bz2152`	`Despite the login name, this is bz2152's buddy, using Remote Control to get some source recompiled.`
`21:27.58`	`bz2152`	`I need help with some compile errors that popped up.`
`21:28.10`	`bz2152`	`Should I list them here? ONe by one of course...`
`21:28.18`	`bz2152`	`I am using the v2.0.4 source.`
`21:28.19`	`blast007`	`~pastebin`
`21:28.21`	`ibot`	`methinks pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.ca/`
`21:28.25`	`bz2152`	`OK`
`21:28.51`	`bz2152`	`I didn't remember the website... been so long since I used IRC. :P`
`21:29.07`	`blast007`	`I should also ask what OS you are compiling on :)`
`21:30.36`	`bz2152`	`http://pastebin.ca/28841`
`21:30.40`	`bz2152`	`Windows XP`
`21:30.52`	`bz2152`	`Using Dev-C`
`21:31.23`	`bz2152`	`There should be two " " on the end of Dev-C.`
`21:31.28`	`bz2152`	`Grrrr`
`21:31.42`	`blast007`	`you have SDL installed for Dev-Cpp?`
`21:31.44`	`bz2152`	`There should be two plus marks on the end of Dev-C`
`21:31.48`	`bz2152`	`Uhm...`
`21:31.54`	`bz2152`	`I downloaded a DLL file.`
`21:31.57`	`blast007`	`yup, CGI:IRC kills the plus signs ;)`
`21:32.01`	`bz2152`	`And pasted it into the source folder.`
`21:32.06`	`blast007`	`the DLL is just for running`
`21:32.09`	`bz2152`	`Where the bzflag source.`
`21:32.11`	`bz2152`	`Ah`
`21:32.13`	`bz2152`	`OK`
`21:32.15`	`blast007`	`you need the dev libs/headers too`
`21:32.20`	`bz2152`	`OK`
`21:32.23`	`bz2152`	`Where do I get those?`
`21:32.27`	`bz2152`	`The SDL website is confusing`
`21:32.29`	`blast007`	`should be a package tool of some sort for Dev-Cpp`
`21:32.36`	`bz2152`	`OK....`
`21:32.50`	`blast007`	`can't recall if it had SDL in there, but it's a good spot to start`
`21:33.18`	`bz2152`	`OK`
`21:33.20`	`bz2152`	`I'll look`
`21:33.46`	`blast007`	`if it's not in there, you'll want http://www.libsdl.org/release/SDL-devel-1.2.9-mingw32.tar.gz`
`21:33.56`	`bz2152`	`You want to add in a header?`
`21:34.01`	`*** join/#bzflag YAKarsten (n=karsten@sourcemage/wizard/pdpc.sustaining.BearPerson)`
`21:34.31`	`blast007`	`there will be some headers for SDL that are included during compile`
`21:34.43`	`bz2152`	`A package manager?`
`21:34.52`	`bz2152`	`Is that it?`
`21:35.07`	`blast007`	`I don't use dev-cpp, so I'm not sure of the exact location/name`
`21:35.14`	`bz2152`	`OK`
`21:35.49`	`bz2152`	`Oh, I see`
`21:35.57`	`bz2152`	`You want to import a file.`
`21:35.59`	`bz2152`	`RIght?`
`21:36.03`	`bz2152`	`The SDL source.`
`21:36.04`	`blast007`	`hmm`
`21:36.18`	`bz2152`	`I opened Pakcage Manager...`
`21:36.34`	`bz2152`	`...and saw that you could import a compressed folder.`
`21:36.38`	`JeffM2501`	`is devC++ even updated?`
`21:36.39`	`blast007`	`ah, "You can find and download packages by using the WebUpdate utility within Dev-C++ (in Tools, Check for updates/packages)."`
`21:36.48`	`bz2152`	`AHA!`
`21:36.49`	`bz2152`	`OK`
`21:36.54`	`bz2152`	`I've seen that one...`
`21:37.02`	`blast007`	`JeffM2501: brad2901 uses it`
`21:37.14`	`*** join/#bzflag trepan_ (n=trepan@CPE0040f42db082-CM00e06f15f704.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`21:37.18`	`JeffM2501`	`that still dosn't answer the question :)`
`21:37.23`	`blast007`	`hehe`
`21:37.24`	`JeffM2501`	`has lan been keeping it updated?`
`21:37.38`	`JeffM2501`	`last I saw he was mucking with CVS head, unaware of the branch`
`21:38.02`	`blast007`	`ah`
`21:38.21`	`JeffM2501`	`tho one would think devC++ could deal with an unsigned int`
`21:38.49`	`bz2152`	`I'm downloading the updates`
`21:38.57`	`Pimpi`	`branch was HEAD`
`21:38.58`	`bz2152`	`Every one that is not in another language.`
`21:39.01`	`bz2152`	`:P`
`21:39.23`	`JeffM2501`	`wonder when devC++ will be able to do sub projects`
`21:39.27`	`JeffM2501`	`and multiple targets`
`21:39.50`	`JeffM2501`	`VC express may put it out of biz too`
`21:41.08`	`blast007`	`yeah :)`
`21:41.41`	`JeffM2501`	`finaly got my MSDN VC8`
`21:43.35`	`JeffM2501`	`brlcad, thanks, maybe I'll move it this weekend`
`21:44.37`	`bz2152`	`Installing 32 new packages...`
`21:44.37`	`bz2152`	`:D`
`21:46.03`	`bz2152`	`It's going to knock of 85 MB!!!!`
`21:46.22`	`JeffM2501`	`the object files can be big`
`21:46.35`	`JeffM2501`	`what did you need to build for? the binarys we have don't have what you need?`
`21:46.45`	`bz2152`	`No kidding...`
`21:47.06`	`bz2152`	`Oh....`
`21:47.48`	`bz2152`	`We're rebuilding BZFlag so that we get some extra stuff in the radar`
`21:47.58`	`JeffM2501`	`what kind of extra stuff?`
`21:48.19`	`*** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@68.50.155.230)`
`21:48.21`	`bz2152`	`no,it a extra feature that allows u to see the person of the tank speed`
`21:48.29`	`bz2152`	`nmade by snick`
`21:48.39`	`JeffM2501`	`your applying a patch?`
`21:48.44`	`bz2152`	`Basically`
`21:48.57`	`JeffM2501`	`person of the tank speed?`
`21:49.00`	`JeffM2501`	`what does that mean?`
`21:49.15`	`bz2152`	`dont no how to describe ive never used to`
`21:49.17`	`bz2152`	`**it`
`21:49.39`	`bz2152`	`OK, bz's buddy is back.`
`21:49.42`	`bz2152`	`:)`
`21:49.44`	`JeffM2501`	`just so you know, devc++ builds don't work exactly the same as the normal windows binarys we ship`
`21:49.46`	`bz2152`	`It's done updating`
`21:49.51`	`bz2152`	`Ah, OK`
`21:49.53`	`bz2152`	`"We"....`
`21:49.55`	`JeffM2501`	`it will work more like the linux version`
`21:49.55`	`bz2152`	`?`
`21:49.59`	`JeffM2501`	`then the windows version`
`21:50.03`	`bz2152`	`Oh...`
`21:50.11`	`JeffM2501`	`but it should still work`
`21:50.14`	`bz2152`	`Well, we'll be using this beside the newwer.`
`21:50.21`	`bz2152`	`So the newer will still be there`
`21:50.28`	`JeffM2501`	`newwer?`
`21:50.31`	`bz2152`	`It's done updating.`
`21:50.34`	`bz2152`	`Do I jsut recompile?`
`21:50.38`	`bz2152`	`newer*`
`21:50.43`	`JeffM2501`	`if you have the libs yeah`
`21:50.47`	`JeffM2501`	`compile and pray`
`21:50.49`	`bz2152`	`libs?`
`21:50.59`	`JeffM2501`	`the update added libs and stuff you needed`
`21:51.02`	`JeffM2501`	`like SDL`
`21:51.22`	`JeffM2501`	`you may need libCurl too`
`21:51.28`	`bz2152`	`Same errors`
`21:51.48`	`JeffM2501`	`let me look at them`
`21:51.52`	`JeffM2501`	`where did you get the code?`
`21:51.58`	`JeffM2501`	`from the zip file?`
`21:52.05`	`bz2152`	`From SF's download site`
`21:52.12`	`bz2152`	`ZIP....`
`21:52.13`	`JeffM2501`	`so yes, from the zip file :)`
`21:52.18`	`bz2152`	`OK`
`21:52.19`	`bz2152`	`:P`
`21:52.21`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah you don't have SDL`
`21:52.25`	`JeffM2501`	`it can't find it`
`21:52.25`	`bz2152`	`Alright.`
`21:52.26`	`bz2152`	`So....`
`21:52.36`	`JeffM2501`	`did you read the devC++ readme in the bzflag source dir?`
`21:52.37`	`bz2152`	`I need to download from that link you have above?`
`21:52.44`	`bz2152`	`Um...`
`21:52.47`	`bz2152`	`No...`
`21:52.52`	`bz2152`	`I read the README...`
`21:52.59`	`bz2152`	`:D`
`21:53.01`	`JeffM2501`	`there is a readme.devC++`
`21:53.04`	`bz2152`	`OK`
`21:53.09`	`blast007`	`the dev-cpp readme is outdated a bit, but should still probive some useful info`
`21:53.09`	`JeffM2501`	`it has the build instructions`
`21:53.18`	`blast007`	`mainly, the link for curl is dead ;)`
`21:53.19`	`JeffM2501`	`it will get him the libs he needs`
`21:53.22`	`JeffM2501`	`ahh`
`21:53.27`	`JeffM2501`	`well he can search`
`21:53.36`	`blast007`	`yup`
`21:53.45`	`JeffM2501`	`is it time for another 2.0.5bX ?`
`21:53.50`	`bz2152`	`No Readme.Dev`
`21:53.55`	`blast007`	`and last I checked, the only curl for mingw is SSL, so he'll need OpenSSL too`
`21:54.14`	`bz2152`	`I got OpenSSL`
`21:54.16`	`bz2152`	`In the update`
`21:54.29`	`blast007`	`JeffM2501: I'm working on a new installer if your interested`
`21:54.36`	`JeffM2501`	`blast007, using 2.0?`
`21:54.39`	`blast007`	`uses the modern interface`
`21:54.40`	`blast007`	`yeah`
`21:54.42`	`JeffM2501`	`cool`
`21:54.49`	`JeffM2501`	`is it ready?`
`21:56.24`	`bz2152`	`The Readme isn't helping.`
`21:56.28`	`bz2152`	`There is no LIB tab`
`21:56.40`	`bz2152`	`Or Includes tab`
`21:56.43`	`bz2152`	`It must be outdated`
`21:56.45`	`*** join/#bzflag Guest784 (n=54391950@genesis.concept69.de)`
`21:56.46`	`JeffM2501`	`then you'll have to figure it out`
`21:56.49`	`bz2152`	`Alright...`
`21:56.56`	`JeffM2501`	`we don't use devC++ as our main dev system on windows`
`21:57.06`	`JeffM2501`	`the only reason we have it in there is because somone made it once`
`21:57.14`	`JeffM2501`	`and they update it VERY rarely`
`21:57.30`	`JeffM2501`	`he's kinda a flake`
`21:59.26`	`bz2152`	`Oh... I see`
`21:59.36`	`bz2152`	`Dev-C doesn't allow for undeclared things...`
`21:59.36`	`bz2152`	`Right?`
`21:59.47`	`JeffM2501`	`C++ dosn't allow undeclared things`
`21:59.47`	`bz2152`	`Is that what you said up there>`
`21:59.52`	`bz2152`	`Oh`
`21:59.54`	`bz2152`	`...`
`21:59.57`	`bz2152`	`OK`
`22:00.00`	`JeffM2501`	`your compiler can't find SDL`
`22:00.02`	`JeffM2501`	`it dosn't know where it is`
`22:00.07`	`JeffM2501`	`you have to tell it where to look`
`22:00.25`	`bz2152`	`I don`
`22:00.34`	`bz2152`	`I don't have SDL.`
`22:00.38`	`JeffM2501`	`then you need to get it`
`22:00.50`	`bz2152`	`This is bigger then I thought...`
`22:00.57`	`JeffM2501`	`building is not trivial`
`22:01.00`	`JeffM2501`	`not on windows`
`22:01.00`	`bz2152`	`Do you have a download or website link?`
`22:01.08`	`bz2152`	`Not unless you use Java.`
`22:01.09`	`bz2152`	`:D`
`22:01.10`	`JeffM2501`	`google`
`22:01.15`	`JeffM2501`	`java is a toy langauge`
`22:01.21`	`bz2152`	`I have experience with Java, so I can read some of the C code.`
`22:01.36`	`bz2152`	`Java is NOT a toy language. But let's not duke it out here....`
`22:01.44`	`JeffM2501`	`it has it's uses`
`22:02.01`	`JeffM2501`	`but yes compiling isn't a click bang done thing`
`22:02.08`	`BenUrban`	`java is not a toy language in that it's not fun at all`
`22:02.21`	`JeffM2501`	`for windows, the best way to build with a free compiler is using minGW`
`22:02.27`	`JeffM2501`	`it is allways up to date`
`22:02.34`	`JeffM2501`	`since it uses the linux build system`
`22:02.50`	`JeffM2501`	`we hope to soon support the free VisualC++ express`
`22:03.30`	`bz2152`	`Yea... I just Googled C compilers, and found Dev-C , heard some good stuff about it, (had it installed for a very short time on my system when I thought I'd be learning C ), and so got it.`
`22:03.45`	`JeffM2501`	`it is not a bad compiler for learning`
`22:03.51`	`JeffM2501`	`it dosn't support large projects well`
`22:04.20`	`JeffM2501`	`and as I said, we don't use it realy, so it's not well maintained`
`22:04.37`	`JeffM2501`	`I will probably remove it, once VC8 support is done`
`22:04.48`	`JeffM2501`	`since that will be kept up to date`
`22:05.37`	`*** join/#bzflag RPG_ (n=G-bus@c-24-15-87-171.hsd1.il.comcast.net)`
`22:05.54`	`Tupone`	`bz2152: really ... use mingw32 and look at README.MINGWsomething on bzflag distribution`
`22:06.21`	`JeffM2501`	`it has a good set of instructions`
`22:06.23`	`JeffM2501`	`very complete`
`22:06.51`	`JeffM2501`	`it is entirely possible you will get the libs devC++ wants, and it still may not work because it may be out of date`
`22:07.18`	`JeffM2501`	`and trust me, if Tupone and myself agree, it MUST be true ;)`
`22:07.32`	`Tupone`	`;)`
`22:07.47`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03blast007 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/package/win32/nsis/ (copying.rtf side.bmp uninstall.ico BZFlag.nsi): New modern installer`
`22:07.47`	`JeffM2501`	`like planatary alignment action`
`22:07.55`	`JeffM2501`	`whoot`
`22:07.58`	`JeffM2501`	`dude kill the old one`
`22:08.09`	`JeffM2501`	`well the other 2`
`22:08.16`	`JeffM2501`	`we don't need the big and small anymore`
`22:08.42`	`blast007`	`the other one is an SDL one`
`22:08.51`	`JeffM2501`	`kill it`
`22:09.01`	`bz2152`	`Well, I got SDL, extracted, and everything. Do I "Include" the file, say it's a "Library"?`
`22:09.06`	`JeffM2501`	`if we ever do a windows sdl version, it will be th only one`
`22:09.11`	`bz2152`	`I'm sorry... I'm just confused.`
`22:09.19`	`JeffM2501`	`I don't forsee us doing 2 windows builds`
`22:09.23`	`blast007`	`k`
`22:09.40`	`JeffM2501`	`blast007, I like the checkboxes :)`
`22:09.46`	`JeffM2501`	`and the picture`
`22:09.59`	`JeffM2501`	`tho I am partal to the spawn effect :)`
`22:10.09`	`blast007`	`:)`
`22:10.23`	`JeffM2501`	`can you replace the box/CD icon in the upper left?`
`22:10.29`	`JeffM2501`	`be cool to make that like a mini tank`
`22:10.34`	`JeffM2501`	`if it's not too hard`
`22:10.36`	`blast007`	`yeah, gonna look into that`
`22:10.42`	`JeffM2501`	`cool`
`22:11.04`	`*** join/#bzflag hans- (n=hanseman@dslb-084-058-015-121.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`22:11.21`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03blast007 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/package/win32/ (installer_2.0.nsi nsis/SDL_BZFlag.nsi): Remove the older installer scripts`
`22:11.22`	`JeffM2501`	`it installed fine, looks good, great job on it`
`22:11.30`	`blast007`	`thx`
`22:11.32`	`*** join/#bzflag RedBaron3 (n=47014a57@genesis.concept69.de)`
`22:11.40`	`blast007`	`even installs the man2html'ed files`
`22:11.51`	`JeffM2501`	`cool`
`22:11.54`	`JeffM2501`	`well the old one did`
`22:12.00`	`blast007`	`not the bzw one`
`22:12.04`	`JeffM2501`	`the build system just screws up the greation of them`
`22:12.11`	`JeffM2501`	`ohh the bzw`
`22:12.12`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`22:12.26`	`JeffM2501`	`there are still problems with man2HTML`
`22:12.29`	`JeffM2501`	`on some systems`
`22:12.39`	`blast007`	`k`
`22:12.45`	`blast007`	`anyway, off to work I go ;)`
`22:12.49`	`JeffM2501`	`have fun`
`22:13.02`	`*** part/#bzflag hans- (n=hanseman@dslb-084-058-015-121.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`22:13.24`	`bz2152`	`I already have Simple MediaDirect Layer`
`22:13.31`	`JeffM2501`	`that is SDL`
`22:13.35`	`JeffM2501`	`then your compiler should find it`
`22:13.38`	`bz2152`	`It's in the Package Manager.`
`22:13.40`	`bz2152`	`And it's there`
`22:13.50`	`JeffM2501`	`then why can't it find it?`
`22:14.05`	`bz2152`	`Should I post the errors?`
`22:14.11`	`bz2152`	`Just to be sure we're looking at the same ones.`
`22:14.12`	`bz2152`	`:D`
`22:14.14`	`JeffM2501`	`are they the same as the last errors you posted?`
`22:15.07`	`bz2152`	`http://pastebin.ca/28845`
`22:15.09`	`bz2152`	`ALright...`
`22:15.18`	`bz2152`	`I just C&P the erros'`
`22:15.21`	`bz2152`	`errors*`
`22:15.29`	`bz2152`	`Those are the ones I am constantly having`
`22:15.33`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah it can't find SDL_Init`
`22:15.43`	`JeffM2501`	`your compiler can't find the SDL headers`
`22:16.22`	`bz2152`	`Humph`
`22:16.26`	`bz2152`	`Alright...`
`22:17.52`	`bz2152`	`http://pastebin.ca/28846`
`22:18.01`	`bz2152`	`Those are the files in the SDL package`
`22:18.14`	`JeffM2501`	`ok`
`22:18.19`	`JeffM2501`	`why can't the compiler find them then?`
`22:18.37`	`bz2152`	`It should......`
`22:18.47`	`JeffM2501`	`but it isn't`
`22:18.49`	`bz2152`	`Is there any way to NOT use SDL?`
`22:18.56`	`JeffM2501`	`not in devC++`
`22:19.03`	`bz2152`	`Rats`
`22:19.08`	`JeffM2501`	`you would need visual C++ to not use SDL`
`22:19.18`	`bz2152`	`Would it be easier to install yet another compiler?`
`22:19.32`	`JeffM2501`	`the only other free one is minGW`
`22:19.40`	`JeffM2501`	`and as we have said, it is a better way to build`
`22:19.42`	`Tupone`	`bz2152: look ar README.MINGW32`
`22:19.43`	`JeffM2501`	`for a free compiler`
`22:19.44`	`bz2152`	`OK`
`22:19.49`	`JeffM2501`	`but it is command line`
`22:19.54`	`JeffM2501`	`no clicking`
`22:19.57`	`bz2152`	`I can use that.`
`22:20.06`	`bz2152`	`I can compile and run Java programs...`
`22:20.13`	`bz2152`	`They use the command line`
`22:20.15`	`bz2152`	`:)`
`22:20.20`	`JeffM2501`	`if you say so`
`22:20.24`	`bz2152`	`Seems to me like you don't know much about Java.....`
`22:20.26`	`JeffM2501`	`the readme will walk you thru it`
`22:20.29`	`JeffM2501`	`I do`
`22:20.30`	`bz2152`	`Eeneways`
`22:20.35`	`bz2152`	`Thanks`
`22:20.39`	`JeffM2501`	`I know it's not compiled :)`
`22:21.16`	`JeffM2501`	`just optimised down to it's run time stuff`
`22:21.26`	`JeffM2501`	`still dosn't make machine code`
`22:21.34`	`JeffM2501`	`the mingw should get you going`
`22:21.38`	`JeffM2501`	`it uses the linux make system`
`22:21.44`	`JeffM2501`	`so it will allways be up to date`
`22:21.55`	`bz2152`	`If Java made machine code, then it wouldn't be a compile-once runn-everywhere language.`
`22:22.03`	`JeffM2501`	`no it woudln't`
`22:22.05`	`*** join/#bzflag cody6375 (n=44380596@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`22:22.10`	`JeffM2501`	`and it would be a lot faster :)`
`22:22.15`	`JeffM2501`	`like I say, it has it's uses`
`22:22.22`	`JeffM2501`	`but it is not the best choice for all jobs`
`22:22.27`	`JeffM2501`	`no language is`
`22:22.32`	`cody6375`	`I have a question, I have a question :)`
`22:22.44`	`JeffM2501`	`hello cody6375`
`22:22.47`	`bz2152`	`Well, I'll uninstall Dev-C then`
`22:23.03`	`cody6375`	`when I try to add flags to my script the server won't start`
`22:23.11`	`JeffM2501`	`does it give you an error?`
`22:23.12`	`cody6375`	`HI jeff how are you today ?`
`22:23.33`	`cody6375`	`it acts lit it want to start the shouts down`
`22:24.08`	`JeffM2501`	`you need to run it from a command line with the config`
`22:24.09`	`bz2152`	`Well, bz2152 is taking over the mouse, so TTYL.`
`22:24.10`	`cody6375`	`sorry 13 hours at work and I can't spell`
`22:24.12`	`JeffM2501`	`and see what the error is`
`22:24.44`	`bz2152`	`(By the by, if you wanna know, I go on the net under the ID of fun2program8, javaJake, or FreeniverseAdmin. YOu can Google those if ya want. :P)`
`22:24.52`	`cody6375`	`Jeff I am doing that but when I add the flags I want it won't run`
`22:25.14`	`JeffM2501`	`cody6375, do you run using a batch file you double click?`
`22:25.43`	`cody6375`	`yes I created one to do that`
`22:25.45`	`JeffM2501`	`or do you type in bzfs -config yourconfigfile.txt in the terminal?`
`22:25.50`	`JeffM2501`	`ok`
`22:25.59`	`JeffM2501`	`the bat file closes before you can see the error`
`22:26.04`	`JeffM2501`	`you want to run from the terminal`
`22:26.06`	`cody6375`	`would you like to see the script ?`
`22:26.06`	`JeffM2501`	`so you can see the error`
`22:26.19`	`cody6375`	`yes it does`
`22:26.19`	`JeffM2501`	`the error will tell you what you did wrong in the config`
`22:26.43`	`JeffM2501`	`and that error is?`
`22:26.52`	`cody6375`	`oh okay I understand run the cammond to see the error not the bat file`
`22:27.20`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah when you double click a bat file, it closes the terminal it opens when the app quits, clearing the error`
`22:27.23`	`*** join/#bzflag Aribeth (n=Aribeth@eacb02-00-cmmgga-70-34-176-23.atlaga.adelphia.net)`
`22:27.25`	`JeffM2501`	`you want to run from an existing terminal`
`22:27.28`	`JeffM2501`	`so you can see the error`
`22:27.52`	`cody6375`	`okay I'll do that now and see what happens`
`22:29.17`	`*** join/#bzflag kierra (n=les@fl-71-1-74-87.dyn.sprint-hsd.net)`
`22:33.17`	`*** join/#bzflag triclops (n=triclops@203-158-50-220.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
`22:35.00`	`cody6375`	`okay jeff here is what happened, I added 25 good flags and run the script like you said "NO ERRORS" but then I went to join the game it show a lot more the 25 flags and it would not let me in the game it acted like my right click didn't work`
`22:36.57`	`bz2152`	`try resarting server`
`22:37.33`	`Tupone`	`cody 25 good flags are quite a lot`
`22:37.50`	`Tupone`	`I think like 1000`
`22:37.58`	`cody6375`	`i'm just testing`
`22:38.23`	`Tupone`	`there is a problem already described at sourceforge`
`22:39.43`	`cody6375`	`what's the problem`
`22:39.48`	`*** part/#bzflag RPG_ (n=G-bus@c-24-15-87-171.hsd1.il.comcast.net)`
`22:40.17`	`Tupone`	`too many flag, cause that tanks goes nr IIRC when one is joining`
`22:40.20`	`cody6375`	`i did try to resyart the srever`
`22:40.44`	`cody6375`	`hmmmmm.........`
`22:42.37`	`*** join/#bzflag BearPerson (n=karsten@sourcemage/wizard/pdpc.sustaining.BearPerson)`
`22:42.49`	`*** join/#bzflag Birdie (n=Birdie__@d54C34DE9.access.telenet.be)`
`22:44.47`	`*** join/#bzflag SilentSwan (n=silent@unaffiliated/silentswan)`
`22:47.12`	`*** part/#bzflag kierra (n=les@fl-71-1-74-87.dyn.sprint-hsd.net)`
`22:49.33`	`*** join/#bzflag pyr0 (n=476580ce@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`22:49.47`	`SilentSwan`	`before i go monkeying with it, is bzedit in a usable condition on linux yet?`
`22:50.22`	`pyr0`	`quick question, as im too lazy to open mirc right now, where does the debug log get placed on windows ... cant seem to find it`
`22:51.01`	`pyr0`	`figure ill just run debug in hopes of knowing why i cant connect to longhairs server, but the file is no where to be found, or im blind, again`
`22:53.31`	`SilentSwan`	`i guess not`
`22:54.07`	`pyr0`	`mmm hmm :)`
`22:54.26`	`JeffM2501`	`debug log?`
`22:54.30`	`JeffM2501`	`what debug log?`
`22:55.27`	`pyr0`	`when you open bzflag from command line with the option -debug ... i would guess there'd be a log of sorts`
`22:55.34`	`JeffM2501`	`no`
`22:55.54`	`JeffM2501`	`any debug oputput from the client goes to stdout`
`22:56.07`	`JeffM2501`	`and there is very little`
`22:56.11`	`pyr0`	`oy vey`
`22:56.18`	`JeffM2501`	`what happens when you try to connect to the server?`
`22:56.21`	`pyr0`	`i surrender to no htf matches then :)`
`22:57.03`	`pyr0`	`just an Error connection to server... that will never go away, ip changes, system changes, the whole nine yards ... supposedly others also get the error but didnt notice till i posted on the bzflag board`
`22:57.14`	`JeffM2501`	`what version are you ussing?`
`22:57.29`	`JeffM2501`	`and on what OS?`
`22:57.40`	`pyr0`	`tried it on 2.04 and 2.05b2 (which is what i have on windows) then 2.04 on gentoo`
`22:57.49`	`JeffM2501`	`does it work on windows?`
`22:58.01`	`pyr0`	`nope, neither. same error through all of them`
`22:58.07`	`JeffM2501`	`then it's probably your ISP`
`22:58.17`	`JeffM2501`	`does your ISP have a proxy server or some sort of UDP filter?`
`22:58.36`	`JeffM2501`	`and do any other servers work?`
`22:58.39`	`pyr0`	`seems unlikely ... everything else runs fine, servers, sites, ftps, irc, servers of all sorts that i randomly run`
`22:58.48`	`pyr0`	`no problems from anyone`
`22:59.26`	`pyr0`	`no filters... verizon dsl, which is also what longhair has. no problem getting on other verizon dsl hosted servers`
`22:59.27`	`JeffM2501`	`hard to say then`
`23:00.18`	`JeffM2501`	`it says "internal error connecting to server" ?`
`23:00.21`	`pyr0`	`indeed :)`
`23:00.22`	`pyr0`	`nope`
`23:00.26`	`Tupone`	`pyr0: debug option is -d repeated as much as you want`
`23:00.28`	`pyr0`	`just Error connection to server`
`23:00.36`	`JeffM2501`	`"Error connecting to server"`
`23:00.41`	`JeffM2501`	`cheking the code now`
`23:00.47`	`JeffM2501`	`to see what would cause that`
`23:00.52`	`Tupone`	`pyr0: you tried to move out your old config`
`23:00.56`	`pyr0`	`did it four times tupone, nothing comes up`
`23:01.00`	`JeffM2501`	`that's a socket error`
`23:01.03`	`pyr0`	`yep, no luck`
`23:01.41`	`JeffM2501`	`I'll bet something in the route between you and them has it blocked`
`23:01.44`	`JeffM2501`	`can you ping him?`
`23:01.53`	`JeffM2501`	`or get to anything else he hosts via a non bzflag method?`
`23:01.56`	`pyr0`	`the odd part about all of this is that i cant connect, several others cannot and recieve the same error. but on the other hand, many more can connect without issues`
`23:02.09`	`pyr0`	`i can ping him fine. i dont believe he runs any other servers`
`23:02.16`	`pyr0`	`http, ftp, etc..`
`23:02.33`	`JeffM2501`	`wierd`
`23:02.48`	`JeffM2501`	`basicly it looks like that can only happen if the raw socket fails`
`23:03.34`	`JeffM2501`	`like it can't be inited, or the request never goes out`
`23:03.47`	`JeffM2501`	`you'd have to build from source and run in a debuger`
`23:03.54`	`JeffM2501`	`your deeper then any built in loging`
`23:04.21`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03atupone * 10bzflag/configure.ac: AC_PROG_RANLIB is deprecated now`
`23:04.22`	`JeffM2501`	`now does his server run on windows?`
`23:04.23`	`pyr0`	`well, the one thing that did bother me last night was when i was looking about, i did several traceroutes off of various sites and off my linux system. my own system did fine, got through no problem, but a few of the servers i ran it off of stopped half way in`
`23:04.59`	`pyr0`	`i believe linux (if he is truthful with the homelinux.org portion) although it could be windows`
`23:05.05`	`JeffM2501`	`if his server is on windows, he could be running out of conenctions`
`23:05.20`	`JeffM2501`	`homelinux.org is just one of the free dns names no-ip.com uses`
`23:05.30`	`pyr0`	`doubtful, ive attempted it when all servers empty, no luck`
`23:05.42`	`JeffM2501`	`I don't just mean bzflag connections`
`23:05.47`	`Tupone`	`pyr0: I think is better do a trace on TCP/UDP message to know what the problem is`
`23:05.56`	`pyr0`	`i know, but it was just a guess that he'd use it if it was linux, though it could be false...`
`23:05.56`	`JeffM2501`	`windows XP has a limit to the number of raw TCP connections it can do`
`23:06.02`	`JeffM2501`	`regarless of it's source`
`23:06.16`	`JeffM2501`	`if other servers work for you, then I doubt it's you`
`23:06.22`	`pyr0`	`i understand that much, but its not just me, its others, and the ones who can connect always can`
`23:06.29`	`JeffM2501`	`specialy if you say that others have the same problem with him`
`23:06.45`	`JeffM2501`	`do the others only have the problem with HIM?`
`23:06.50`	`JeffM2501`	`or with any server?`
`23:06.58`	`pyr0`	`i believe its just with him ...`
`23:07.04`	`JeffM2501`	`then it's his freaking server`
`23:07.09`	`JeffM2501`	`or soemthing in the line`
`23:07.13`	`JeffM2501`	`there isn't a think you can do`
`23:07.27`	`JeffM2501`	`I'll bet he's doing other stuff on the machine`
`23:07.29`	`JeffM2501`	`running XP`
`23:07.32`	`JeffM2501`	`and jsut out of connections`
`23:08.29`	`pyr0`	`possible. but that brings me back to the point of how some can connect and always can but then there is those who cannot, so its more then likely just in the line. all the same to me, ill deal without htf league matches there... thanks for the help`
`23:10.53`	`JeffM2501`	`could also be a flakey router on there end`
`23:11.50`	`*** join/#bzflag Teppic (n=Teppic@cpc2-cbly2-5-0-cust83.glfd.cable.ntl.com)`
`23:12.29`	`Teppic`	`Hello?`
`23:12.50`	`JeffM2501`	`hello`
`23:13.07`	`Teppic`	`Is there a specific bug tracker for cvs ?`
`23:13.14`	`JeffM2501`	`not realy`
`23:13.29`	`Teppic`	`Doesn't it get awful messy?`
`23:13.30`	`JeffM2501`	`you say what version you found the bug in, and that's all we realy need to know`
`23:13.34`	`JeffM2501`	`not realy`
`23:13.42`	`*** join/#bzflag brad2901 (i=one@unaffiliated/brad2901)`
`23:13.48`	`JeffM2501`	`it's not like we often have multiple versions live that we need to maintain`
`23:14.03`	`JeffM2501`	`so if it's a bug it's a bug`
`23:14.26`	`Teppic`	`Any know issues with tele's ATM?`
`23:14.43`	`blast007`	`issues like what?`
`23:14.48`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`23:14.55`	`JeffM2501`	`there are tons of little inconsistencys with em`
`23:15.09`	`Teppic`	`Yeah thats what I'm getting, with bullets`
`23:15.40`	`Teppic`	`NM then, no point flagging known issues, thx...`
`23:15.49`	`JeffM2501`	`actualy there is`
`23:15.57`	`JeffM2501`	`we may know it`
`23:16.06`	`JeffM2501`	`but if it's not reported then it will never get fixed`
`23:16.19`	`JeffM2501`	`there is no "spec" of how the TP is suposed to work`
`23:18.23`	`Teppic`	`KK, i'll sort out versions etc, and make a legible entry....`
`23:18.49`	`JeffM2501`	`what version are you doing it in?`
`23:19.14`	`Teppic`	`Up to date cvs, 2.1.3 i think`
`23:19.24`	`JeffM2501`	`then just report it :)`
`23:19.26`	`JeffM2501`	`that's good enough`
`23:19.50`	`JeffM2501`	`if the rare chance that someone has fixed it and you don't have it yet, then it'll just be closed fast`
`23:20.22`	`Teppic`	`I'll do a rebuild first with the speed turned down.`
`23:20.47`	`JeffM2501`	`why try to work around it? it dosn't make it less of a bug`
`23:20.55`	`JeffM2501`	`are you running in an invalid case?`
`23:21.00`	`trepan`	`teles should be redone with arbitrary geo`
`23:21.11`	`trepan`	`forget fixing anything in 2.0.x ;)`
`23:21.11`	`Guu`	`I've never heard of fixing anything in 2.0.x ;), trepan!`
`23:21.25`	`JeffM2501`	`that they should`
`23:21.29`	`Teppic`	`I can't submit bug reports on binaries compiled on an overclocked setup.`
`23:21.31`	`trepan`	`Guu's a bit promiscuous today`
`23:21.45`	`JeffM2501`	`Teppic, should not mater`
`23:22.02`	`Teppic`	`KK`
`23:23.24`	`JeffM2501`	`teles shoudl be arbitary warp zones with a number of desitnation options`
`23:23.31`	`JeffM2501`	`including respawn`
`23:23.55`	`trepan`	`base should be arbitrary, and that would be the last of 'em`
`23:24.08`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`23:24.09`	`trepan`	`JeffM2501: would still like plane defined teles`
`23:24.12`	`trepan`	`not just zones`
`23:24.27`	`JeffM2501`	`a plane is a very thin zone :)`
`23:24.36`	`trepan`	`no, it is not :)`
`23:24.40`	`JeffM2501`	`I didn't mean our current zone implementiion`
`23:24.45`	`JeffM2501`	`I meant "area"`
`23:24.49`	`JeffM2501`	`including planes`
`23:24.57`	`JeffM2501`	`planes and volumes`
`23:25.00`	`JeffM2501`	`how's that? :)`
`23:25.01`	`trepan`	`planes are directional`
`23:25.31`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah if bases could be made arbitrary, then all the old prims could go byebye`
`23:26.13`	`trepan`	`at the end of the MeshFace.h class block =)`
`23:26.51`	`*** join/#bzflag mmu_man (i=revol@ALyon-253-1-4-213.w83-201.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`23:26.54`	`JeffM2501`	`we should define all world geometry as elipsoids :)`
`23:27.11`	`JeffM2501`	`oooo or voxels`
`23:29.28`	`trepan`	`if you look at it the right way, it's already in voxels`
`23:29.37`	`trepan`	`finite precision floating point`
`23:30.26`	`JeffM2501`	`no I mean axis aligned fixed precision old school 1885 voxels :)`
`23:30.40`	`JeffM2501`	`give worlds that NES look :)`
`23:31.38`	`trepan`	`write a quantizing vertex shader :)`
`23:31.47`	`JeffM2501`	`there ya go`
`23:31.53`	`JeffM2501`	`and a fat italian guy`
`23:33.23`	`JeffM2501`	`it did some prety good indoor/outdoor stuff`
`23:35.25`	`Teppic`	`Another one; would that be a sever or client bug?`
`23:35.41`	`JeffM2501`	`probably client`
`23:35.45`	`JeffM2501`	`since it does most of that`
`23:36.21`	`Teppic`	`So is there a possibility that some client's tank would die, but anonthers not?`
`23:36.29`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`23:36.38`	`JeffM2501`	`how do you think people cheat like crazy now?`
`23:37.37`	`JeffM2501`	`bzflag is a lan game`
`23:37.43`	`JeffM2501`	`it wasn't designed for internet play`
`23:38.10`	`trepan`	`can cheat on a lan too, it's just a very trusting game`
`23:38.15`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`23:38.20`	`JeffM2501`	`well with lan cheaters`
`23:38.27`	`JeffM2501`	`you could go and like beat them up :)`
`23:38.35`	`JeffM2501`	`realy helped with tracking them down :)`
`23:38.43`	`JeffM2501`	`"bob's cheating, kick his ass"`
`23:39.15`	`JeffM2501`	`"yeah he was compiling bzflag all day"`
`23:39.18`	`Teppic`	`Or just pull hit connection out of the patch.`
`23:39.25`	`JeffM2501`	`best of all bans :)`
`23:40.01`	`JeffM2501`	`yay, only 2 more regresion bugs to go :)`
`23:40.29`	`DTRemenak`	`yay regressions`
`23:40.40`	`Teppic`	`From a dev point of view, which form of linking is likly to cause least stress to the server?`
`23:41.16`	`JeffM2501`	`huh?`
`23:41.16`	`trepan`	`linking? stress? dynamic vs. static execs?`
`23:41.43`	`Teppic`	`Sry, tele linking name:f/b or 0 1 2 3 etc.`
`23:41.54`	`JeffM2501`	`it's all the same in the end`
`23:42.04`	`JeffM2501`	`once the map is read it's put into the internal format`
`23:42.13`	`trepan`	`the calcs are done on the clients`
`23:42.54`	`JeffM2501`	`but it's the same calc for each way IIRC`
`23:45.32`	`trepan`	`if one were arguing network stress from map downloads, then the forms with * would be less expensive for random linkage`
`23:45.43`	`trepan`	`(as they are sent as strings)`
`23:46.02`	`JeffM2501`	`that would be minimal`
`23:46.07`	`JeffM2501`	`if even noticable`
`23:46.12`	`trepan`	`very minimal :)`
`23:47.31`	`Teppic`	`Thats the sort of comment that stop ppl getting invited to the pub at luntime with the rest if the sw team.`
`23:48.19`	`JeffM2501`	`there is a team?`
`23:49.06`	`Teppic`	`A generalization.`
`23:49.51`	`JeffM2501`	`there is a generalization?`
`23:49.53`	`*** join/#bzflag Thumper_ (n=bernt@CPE000102d0fe75-CM0012256ecbde.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`23:50.33`	`Teppic`	`A "my code is more efficient 'cos all the variables are 1 character long" comment`
`23:50.58`	`JeffM2501`	`use smaller fonts, makes documents fit on disk beter`
`23:51.27`	`Teppic`	`Like scaling down your meshes in the moddler to make them smaller.`
`23:52.42`	`*** join/#bzflag _bubbles_ (i=nicole@69.156.90.7)`
`23:53.39`	`blast007`	`1 character variables are bad design, and hard to follow :)`
`23:53.46`	`JeffM2501`	`why do I allways save the nasty bugs for last :(`
`23:54.00`	`Teppic`	`Human nature`
`23:54.28`	`JeffM2501`	`segmented face milling sucks`
`23:56.50`	`*** join/#bzflag brad2901 (i=one@unaffiliated/brad2901)`
`23:57.00`	`trepan`	`Teppic: saw you tele/shot thing, amd64 builds are known to be buggy`
`23:58.36`	`Teppic`	`Really, how?`
`23:58.48`	`Teppic`	`I think I just worked round it.`
`23:58.59`	`trepan`	`some can't shoot other players, some have spazzy MsgPlayerUpdate's`
`23:59.00`	`blast007`	`things like the inability to shoot anyway`
`23:59.05`	`blast007`	`anyonw*`
`23:59.10`	`blast007`	`bah..`
`23:59.27`	`Teppic`	`The rest of it seems fine.`

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