| 00:00.53 | JeffM2501 | there I go scaring the girls away again :( |
| 00:01.37 | CBG | again? |
| 00:01.45 | bryjen | no shower today? |
| 00:02.31 | JeffM2501 | no, I showerd |
| 00:02.35 | *** join/#bzflag PKMOBILE (n=Apathy@pcp0011645240pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net) |
| 00:02.59 | JeffM2501 | probably cus I don't have my glasses on |
| 00:03.15 | purple_cow | pants might help too |
| 00:03.32 | bryjen | heh |
| 00:03.36 | CBG | :D heh |
| 00:03.41 | JeffM2501 | pants are on too |
| 00:03.46 | JeffM2501 | just got back from Fry's |
| 00:03.58 | JeffM2501 | and they have a strict no no-pants policy |
| 00:04.06 | cosmos | hahaha |
| 00:04.58 | cosmos | nothing beats frys, i saw an asian gangfight at the burbank one |
| 00:05.08 | bryjen | they always seem concerned about shirts and shoes. i don't think i've every seen one of those signs that mentioned pants... |
| 00:05.09 | cosmos | apparently it was down to the last cpu |
| 00:05.13 | JeffM2501 | this was the one in Oxnard |
| 00:05.14 | JeffM2501 | very nice |
| 00:05.17 | JeffM2501 | just opened |
| 00:05.23 | cosmos | oh i hvavnt been to the oxnard one |
| 00:05.28 | cosmos | that wasnt there when i was working there |
| 00:05.59 | *** join/#bzflag Legoguy (n=Legoguy@ppp-68-252-220-11.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net) |
| 00:09.06 | *** join/#bzflag Legoguy (n=Legoguy@ppp-68-252-220-11.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net) |
| 00:11.10 | *** join/#bzflag brokenbz (n=Patrick@D773f.d.pppool.de) |
| 00:11.16 | orchid | ~dict baroque |
| 00:12.27 | brokenbz | hi all I'm Mr. brokenbz |
| 00:12.38 | bryjen | ~jargon baroque |
| 00:12.40 | ibot | [jargon baroque] adj. Feature-encrusted; complex; gaudy; verging on excessive. Said of hardware or (esp.) software designs, this has many of the connotations of elephantine or monstrosity but is less extreme and not pejorative in itself. "Metafont even has features to introduce random variations to its letterform output. Now *that* is baroque!" See also rococo. |
| 00:14.59 | orchid | hello brokenbz |
| 00:15.10 | brlcad | howdy brokenbz |
| 00:15.26 | brlcad | let me guess.. your bz is broken? :) |
| 00:15.43 | brokenbz | aehm, very prosaic question: I did lose my gl.h |
| 00:16.08 | brlcad | losing gl.h shouldn't break bz .. though it would break the build |
| 00:16.18 | brlcad | now losing your gl lib would likely break bz.. ;) |
| 00:16.44 | brokenbz | oh you know such pitties? |
| 00:17.33 | brlcad | well enough |
| 00:18.02 | JeffM2501 | if you are building, often the "missing GL.h" error during config is missleading |
| 00:18.12 | JeffM2501 | usualy it means you need the pthreads thing |
| 00:19.06 | brokenbz | in short: have suse9.2 nvidia and try to compile 2.0.4 configure says: ... missing .. -- but I did already pthread param |
| 00:19.27 | JeffM2501 | do you have a nvidia glx dev package? |
| 00:19.52 | brlcad | heh, JeffM2501 you have your own thread |
| 00:20.04 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, I know, it kind of scares me |
| 00:20.29 | JeffM2501 | but my 40$ dual layer burner consoles me |
| 00:20.35 | brokenbz | I installed this precompiled weird thing from nvidia if you mean that |
| 00:20.47 | *** join/#bzflag A_Meteorite (n=A_Meteor@69.111.244.110) |
| 00:20.49 | JeffM2501 | that is the driver |
| 00:20.52 | orchid | "JeffM2501 is a superstar" |
| 00:21.01 | JeffM2501 | there may also be a glx dev package |
| 00:21.04 | orchid | your darn tootin' he is |
| 00:21.05 | JeffM2501 | I don't know suse tho |
| 00:21.25 | JeffM2501 | I just did ubuntu and it has an nvidia-glx-dev package |
| 00:21.34 | JeffM2501 | that has gl.h and all the libs |
| 00:21.38 | *** part/#bzflag A_Meteorite (n=A_Meteor@69.111.244.110) |
| 00:22.36 | brokenbz | glx -- dont know, accell graphic runs fine. bzflag 1.10 as well |
| 00:23.06 | JeffM2501 | check your package manager |
| 00:23.41 | brokenbz | ok - hang on... |
| 00:25.51 | brlcad | woah, quol's is back on-line |
| 00:26.33 | brlcad | ~nslookup quol.bzflag.org |
| 00:27.19 | brokenbz | xorg-x11-server-glx 6.8.1-15 ... glx-extension and nvidia dummy driver modules |
| 00:28.46 | JeffM2501 | then you probalby need mesa dev |
| 00:30.10 | brokenbz | means mesa-soft? |
| 00:30.28 | JeffM2501 | you just need the headers |
| 00:30.34 | JeffM2501 | your video card should take over |
| 00:30.36 | JeffM2501 | and run |
| 00:32.17 | JeffM2501 | often there is an nvidia glx package, so you get headers with the nvidia specific extensions |
| 00:32.22 | JeffM2501 | but we don't use them |
| 00:32.26 | JeffM2501 | so it should not mater |
| 00:32.52 | brokenbz | hmm, I have the gl.h but in a proprietary folder .../NVIDIA/include/GL. Still configure refuses to see it even with "export LDPATH=-I/usr/...../GL/gl.h" |
| 00:32.54 | JeffM2501 | orchid, how so I change the defualt OS grub picks? |
| 00:33.11 | JeffM2501 | well then ether make sure that's in your path |
| 00:33.19 | orchid | edit /boot/grub/menu.lst |
| 00:33.20 | JeffM2501 | or make a symlink from your base inc filder |
| 00:33.26 | JeffM2501 | thanks orchid |
| 00:33.41 | JeffM2501 | linux is now running on the new computer |
| 00:33.48 | orchid | oh cool |
| 00:34.04 | JeffM2501 | all cept sound |
| 00:35.01 | orchid | thats always left till last :-) |
| 00:36.03 | JeffM2501 | well sound may work but be going to the wrong outputs |
| 00:36.12 | brokenbz | checking GL/glx.h usability... yes |
| 00:36.12 | brokenbz | checking GL/glx.h presence... yes |
| 00:36.12 | brokenbz | checking for GL/glx.h... yes |
| 00:36.22 | CBG | Is it odd that my head is actually *throbbng* intunw with the Michael Jackson playing thorugh my headhphones? |
| 00:36.31 | brokenbz | oops too fast. Meant: configure says... |
| 00:37.21 | brokenbz | But few lines later: |
| 00:37.24 | brokenbz | checking for sdl-config... /usr/bin/sdl-config |
| 00:37.24 | brokenbz | checking for SDL - version >= 1.2.5... yes |
| 00:37.25 | brokenbz | configure: WARNING: Client build has been requested, but GL is not fully available (missing gl.h) |
| 00:37.25 | brokenbz | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:37.39 | JeffM2501 | brokenbz, are you doing the pthreads thign? |
| 00:37.47 | JeffM2501 | the last error is misleading |
| 00:37.56 | JeffM2501 | it will say that if the gl test app fails for ANY reason |
| 00:37.59 | JeffM2501 | including link errors |
| 00:38.10 | brokenbz | I did: ./configure --enable-debug LDFLAGS="-lpthread" |
| 00:38.20 | orchid | oh I get that error now too with or without the pthread hackery |
| 00:38.33 | JeffM2501 | orchid, I think the sound just dosn't know to use the digital output on the card not the analog |
| 00:38.53 | *** join/#bzflag durt (n=ben@pcp0011938702pcs.limstn01.de.comcast.net) |
| 00:39.05 | orchid | JeffM2501: what OS? |
| 00:39.12 | JeffM2501 | ubuntu |
| 00:39.32 | JeffM2501 | if I use the "iMike" usb sound thingy it works |
| 00:39.38 | JeffM2501 | but that's only via my headphones |
| 00:39.54 | JeffM2501 | I have digital speakers, so they need to use the spdif output |
| 00:39.58 | JeffM2501 | not the normal speaker out |
| 00:41.44 | JeffM2501 | brokenbz, you probalby need to talk to learner or tupone, and probalby run a config in verbose mode, to see what the error was |
| 00:42.05 | brlcad | brokenbz: can you paste your config.log anywhere? |
| 00:42.20 | JeffM2501 | anywhere but here :) |
| 00:42.21 | brlcad | or open up an ssh connection |
| 00:42.28 | brlcad | yeah, that too :) |
| 00:42.29 | JeffM2501 | www.pastebin.com is great for that |
| 00:43.24 | orchid | ~pastebin |
| 00:43.26 | ibot | [pastebin] a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.ca/ |
| 00:43.32 | brokenbz | I try pastebin |
| 00:43.40 | durt | why did the flag looks get changed in 2.0.5? |
| 00:43.46 | brokenbz | how do you reference? |
| 00:44.00 | orchid | just paste the url afterwards |
| 00:44.12 | brlcad | brokenbz: just copy/paste large sections into the page and send us the URL |
| 00:44.28 | orchid | http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/ |
| 00:44.49 | orchid | JeffM2501: SATA works? |
| 00:44.59 | orchid | and your SLI stuff |
| 00:45.08 | JeffM2501 | no SLI acceleration |
| 00:45.13 | JeffM2501 | but I have it working with one card |
| 00:45.20 | JeffM2501 | and yes the boot record is working |
| 00:45.26 | JeffM2501 | and not screwing up the sata |
| 00:45.38 | JeffM2501 | the current nvidia drivers do not support SLI |
| 00:45.41 | JeffM2501 | but that's ok |
| 00:46.13 | orchid | likely they will soon enough I guess? |
| 00:46.26 | JeffM2501 | yeah with the 8x.xx ones |
| 00:46.29 | JeffM2501 | will be out soon |
| 00:46.37 | devster | in linux JeffM2501 ? |
| 00:46.43 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 00:46.52 | devster | having fun? :) |
| 00:46.55 | JeffM2501 | linux SLI support with 81.xx drivers |
| 00:47.14 | devster | are you using 32 or 64bit? |
| 00:47.22 | orchid | then you need the BigDell |
| 00:47.23 | JeffM2501 | 64 |
| 00:47.37 | JeffM2501 | the big dell and another 19 and i'll be set |
| 00:48.09 | devster | btw what was the -lpthreads thing above? |
| 00:48.58 | JeffM2501 | some systems need pthreads to build the gltest app |
| 00:49.32 | devster | ah k |
| 00:49.53 | devster | have you ran to compile withs 64bit and the -fPIC thing? |
| 00:51.07 | brokenbz | part of configure.log is in http://pastebin.com/403579 |
| 00:51.35 | brokenbz | line 90 is anoing me... |
| 00:53.11 | brokenbz | command line was ./configure --enable-debug LDFLAGS="-lpthread" |
| 00:54.17 | *** join/#bzflag RPG_ (n=G-bus@c-24-15-87-171.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 01:00.10 | brokenbz | how do I upload files to pastebin? |
| 01:00.38 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 01:00.38 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 01:00.56 | orchid | should be an upload option there |
| 01:01.39 | *** join/#bzflag ean (n=Patrick@D773f.d.pppool.de) |
| 01:03.00 | ean | JeffM2501, had an irc client crash -- did u say sth 2 me? |
| 01:03.30 | orchid | ean: your brokenbz? |
| 01:03.48 | ean | yes sorry |
| 01:03.55 | orchid | you can upload a file at http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/ |
| 01:04.58 | ean | a part of my config.log is allready at http://pastebin.com/403579 |
| 01:05.34 | ean | see line 90 |
| 01:08.40 | ean | poo! theese computerss.. |
| 01:15.14 | *** join/#bzflag brokenbz (n=Patrick@D773f.d.pppool.de) |
| 01:15.23 | RPG_ | Does anyone know how to change the formatting of the CIA commit messages? |
| 01:15.40 | JeffM2501 | you don't realy have that option |
| 01:15.44 | JeffM2501 | they are generated by CIA |
| 01:15.56 | RPG_ | but your messages are formatted differently than masterbot's |
| 01:16.07 | JeffM2501 | how so? |
| 01:16.10 | brokenbz | Am I brokenbz? |
| 01:16.28 | orchid | looks like it |
| 01:16.34 | RPG_ | for example, your "commit comment" is in bold, as ours is just plain |
| 01:16.53 | JeffM2501 | is your channel set as -c ? |
| 01:17.05 | RPG_ | howst I check? |
| 01:17.19 | JeffM2501 | but any options are set via your project profile, and that is the realm of scanlime |
| 01:17.26 | JeffM2501 | check your channel modes :) |
| 01:17.37 | RPG_ | +n |
| 01:18.09 | brlcad | brokenbz: that snippet in the pastebin isn't enough -- the useful information is earlier in the file |
| 01:18.29 | brokenbz | ok |
| 01:18.54 | brokenbz | it'll go to bzflag.pastebin.ca ... |
| 01:21.27 | JeffM2501 | why does every app on linux have it's OWN freaking sound configs? |
| 01:22.04 | bryjen | because there's no MrBill to declare the One True Way |
| 01:22.42 | devster | lol |
| 01:22.50 | JeffM2501 | I got difrent apps blowing sound out difrent speakers |
| 01:22.54 | bryjen | alsa and oss and esd and artsd, oh my! |
| 01:22.56 | JeffM2501 | yet none of them the speakers I want |
| 01:23.05 | devster | JeffM2501: i just had to recompile gcc to link a library statically |
| 01:23.06 | JeffM2501 | even using alsa it's difrent |
| 01:23.41 | JeffM2501 | I think it's confused by the fact that I thinks I have 3 sound cards |
| 01:24.03 | bryjen | uhm, yeah. i was about to ask how many speakers you have.. |
| 01:24.20 | JeffM2501 | the main speakers are hooked to the spdif |
| 01:24.32 | JeffM2501 | I also have a USB sound dongle that is set to a headset |
| 01:24.40 | JeffM2501 | that I use for voice com |
| 01:25.03 | JeffM2501 | then I also put a set of speakers on the normal speaker out on the onboard sound |
| 01:25.08 | JeffM2501 | to make sure its working |
| 01:25.10 | JeffM2501 | and it is |
| 01:25.15 | JeffM2501 | some apps use the analog out |
| 01:25.22 | JeffM2501 | some use the USB headset |
| 01:25.25 | devster | lol |
| 01:25.29 | JeffM2501 | I want them all to use the spdif |
| 01:25.35 | JeffM2501 | on the onboard sound |
| 01:26.30 | JeffM2501 | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:26.48 | *** part/#bzflag RPG_ (n=G-bus@c-24-15-87-171.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 01:27.04 | bryjen | if you're using gnome or kde, you probly want to funnel the apps to the sound daemon, and get the daemon pointed to the desired device |
| 01:27.09 | devster | what system JeffM2501 ? |
| 01:27.30 | JeffM2501 | 3800+ x2 |
| 01:27.35 | devster | snap! |
| 01:27.48 | JeffM2501 | bryjen, that's what I was trying to to |
| 01:27.51 | JeffM2501 | to do |
| 01:28.05 | JeffM2501 | but I can't get anything other then a "pop" out of the spdif when I set it's volume |
| 01:28.51 | devster | you got python working in xchat JeffM2501 ? |
| 01:29.01 | JeffM2501 | huh? |
| 01:29.06 | JeffM2501 | I dono |
| 01:29.08 | JeffM2501 | why? |
| 01:29.17 | devster | because i cant get it work on 64bit |
| 01:29.37 | JeffM2501 | why would I use python in xchat |
| 01:29.41 | bryjen | i'd think the analog/spdif issue should just be a mixer setting if they're both on the same card.... |
| 01:29.44 | JeffM2501 | I don't even use xchat on that system |
| 01:29.58 | devster | ah didnt know :P |
| 01:29.58 | JeffM2501 | bryjen, well, it shows up in alsa as 2 devices |
| 01:30.14 | bryjen | ah |
| 01:30.45 | JeffM2501 | I can live with it coming out of the other speakers for now |
| 01:31.58 | JeffM2501 | new burner shows up |
| 01:32.01 | JeffM2501 | so I'm happy for that |
| 01:33.33 | JeffM2501 | and basicly all the hard ware at least WORKS |
| 01:33.37 | JeffM2501 | that's better then I had before |
| 01:35.13 | brokenbz | split it up: http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/26428 http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/26429 http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/26430 |
| 01:39.04 | brokenbz | is because of installation of the nvidia installer: NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-6629-pkg1.run |
| 01:39.36 | brlcad | i mean much more specifically |
| 01:39.54 | brlcad | it doesn't magically appear on the compile line after an install ;) |
| 01:40.11 | brokenbz | oh the include? I set it by shell var |
| 01:40.42 | brokenbz | otherwise the glx.h could not be found by configure |
| 01:41.01 | brlcad | hmm.. that's not the right location for glx.h |
| 01:41.42 | brlcad | ls /usr/X11R6/include/GL |
| 01:43.16 | brokenbz | GLwDrawA.h GLwDrawAP.h GLwMDrawA.h GLwMDrawAP.h |
| 01:44.22 | brlcad | locate gl.h |
| 01:45.11 | brokenbz | /usr/share/doc/NVIDIA_GLX-1.0/include/GL/gl.h |
| 01:45.24 | brokenbz | and its copy made from me: |
| 01:45.33 | brokenbz | /usr/include/GL/gl.h |
| 01:45.40 | brlcad | made from you? |
| 01:45.50 | brokenbz | the copy cp ... |
| 01:46.01 | brlcad | you're not supposed to need to copy it manually |
| 01:46.14 | brokenbz | true |
| 01:46.17 | brlcad | there's more than a few cp's you'd need for those headers to work |
| 01:46.37 | brokenbz | oh my good -- I'm lost |
| 01:46.57 | brlcad | looks like in this case, the nvidia libs really weren't installed properly.. |
| 01:47.08 | brlcad | hence the failure to configure |
| 01:47.18 | brlcad | where's glu.h? |
| 01:48.24 | brokenbz | missing: find / -name glu.h |
| 01:48.51 | brlcad | that's probably why configure halts |
| 01:49.36 | brokenbz | get it and works? |
| 01:50.01 | brlcad | heh, well, I'd try to reinstall the nvidia driver |
| 01:50.09 | brlcad | if it gives you an option to install developer headers, say yes ;) |
| 01:51.20 | brokenbz | I worked alot till this nvidia stuff worked. guess i've log how I did it... |
| 01:51.41 | brlcad | the error really is bogus -- if _anything_ goes wrong with linking a small opengl app, it reports that error about gl.h |
| 01:53.13 | bryjen | iirc, it was changed because that seemed to be the most common problem people had when they came here asking about failing to build the client |
| 01:53.28 | brlcad | it usually is, but it's still bogus ;) |
| 01:54.10 | brokenbz | so running foobillard is fine -- nice play. -- but does not exclude the error, right? |
| 01:54.31 | *** join/#bzflag help (n=43a41b63@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 01:55.10 | help | hello |
| 01:55.19 | blast007 | hi |
| 01:55.30 | brlcad | it tests for gl.h as OpenGL/gl.h in a framework then GL/gl.h in -lopengl32 -lGL or -lGL2 THEN is searches for glu.h in a framework or in -lglu32 -lGL or -lGL2 .. if either set fails, it reports "couldn't find gl.h" |
| 01:55.33 | brokenbz | good mornig,help |
| 01:55.44 | help | does anyone know why/how to fix, when i quit my screen goes out and back in.. |
| 01:55.55 | brlcad | brokenbz: running bz would be fine too -- you don't need headers to run, you need them to compile |
| 01:56.12 | brlcad | and whether they use the glu interface might be different |
| 01:56.15 | blast007 | help: you mean, it restores the resolution? |
| 01:56.21 | brokenbz | aha |
| 01:56.30 | help | could be, but it only just started happenin |
| 01:56.38 | blast007 | describe "goes out and back in" |
| 01:57.01 | help | hm..it fades out to dark, fades back in to regular |
| 01:57.16 | blast007 | sounds normal to me |
| 01:57.22 | help | ok, wasn't sure bout that |
| 01:57.31 | blast007 | probably have different resolutions set for your desktop and bzflag |
| 01:57.47 | help | thx blast |
| 02:14.41 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03trepan * 10bzflag/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): |
| 02:14.42 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: - add ".png" to texture names exported to MTL files (if not present) |
| 02:14.42 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: - improve the OBJ texture coordinates for the ground, boxes, and pyramids |
| 02:18.45 | *** join/#bzflag A_Meteorite (n=A_Meteor@69.111.244.110) |
| 02:18.53 | *** part/#bzflag A_Meteorite (n=A_Meteor@69.111.244.110) |
| 02:27.35 | brokenbz | will download new nvidia driver. thanks alot! try later -- try to gather some sleep (c) |
| 02:29.41 | *** part/#bzflag brokenbz (n=Patrick@D773f.d.pppool.de) |
| 02:36.22 | trepan | catmull-clark's revenge: http://trepan.bzflag.bz/noshow/modcity.jpg |
| 02:38.16 | purple_cow | hehe |
| 03:06.24 | *** join/#bzflag lan56 (i=lan56@user-vcausp7.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 03:24.42 | brlcad | heh |
| 04:20.45 | brlcad | trepan: ellipsoids from where? :) |
| 04:21.28 | brlcad | the same brep modeler tool you've been using? (forget the name) |
| 04:30.53 | *** join/#bzflag Legoguy (n=Legoguy@ppp-68-252-220-11.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net) |
| 04:32.27 | trepan | brlcad: any modeller with catmull-clark would do it, blender and wings3d produce the same result |
| 04:32.58 | trepan | you do recognize the map, no? |
| 04:34.49 | brlcad | not really, only glanced at it |
| 04:35.29 | brlcad | madcity |
| 04:36.33 | trepan | thought the image name might be a giveaway :) |
| 04:36.41 | brlcad | rarely play there |
| 04:37.42 | trepan | no one does anymore, but it "the" ffa map for while |
| 04:38.38 | brlcad | was that what kernal panic used to run? |
| 04:39.04 | trepan | what was the server name? |
| 04:39.13 | trepan | (and ya, i think so) |
| 04:39.36 | brlcad | what was that name... moon something |
| 04:39.39 | brlcad | linux distro |
| 04:39.56 | trepan | turkey moongroup? |
| 04:40.05 | trepan | hm, can't quite remember |
| 04:42.35 | brlcad | maybe, but doesn't sound quite right |
| 04:42.42 | brlcad | and google's being no help |
| 04:44.58 | brlcad | hmm.. lunar linux.. yeah, that was the distro he worked on |
| 04:46.46 | trepan | map has good dimensions for testing the exported .obj texcoords... :) |
| 04:48.11 | *** join/#bzflag retro (n=ken@gateway-1237.mvista.com) |
| 04:53.28 | *** join/#bzflag blast007 (i=blast007@24-196-92-143.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) |
| 05:29.00 | *** join/#bzflag SportChicky (i=DonnaCra@24-75-159-182.vnnyca.adelphia.net) |
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| 05:39.48 | brlcad | Pimpi: filing through e-mail .. I suppose this "fix for initGroups()" is applied or irrelevant now? |
| 05:40.10 | brlcad | (sorry, this goes all the way back to Feb .. massive e-mail lag) |
| 06:07.20 | *** join/#bzflag _Manu_ (n=jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 06:26.34 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 06:26.34 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 06:35.33 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03atupone * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/ (HUDuiLabel.h HUDuiList.h): common.h should be the 1st included file, directly or indirectly |
| 06:40.02 | Pimpi | brlcad: yeah, the permissions system has been reworked since |
| 06:40.24 | brlcad | figured, just wanted to be certain ;) |
| 06:40.36 | _Manu_ | morning Pimpi |
| 06:40.41 | _Manu_ | and night brlcad :) |
| 06:40.44 | Pimpi | hi _Manu_ :) |
| 06:40.48 | brlcad | howdy |
| 06:41.19 | _Manu_ | just smiling because JeffM2501: http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=5595 |
| 06:41.20 | _Manu_ | :) |
| 06:41.39 | Pimpi | brlcad: do you still plan to get your logging code finished? |
| 06:42.51 | brlcad | of course, it's on my stack |
| 06:44.08 | brlcad | nothing is removed from the stack until it's completed, and logging actually isn't that far down at all (as dubious as that may seem at this point) |
| 06:44.26 | brlcad | I need it for several projects too, so it's certain to happen, just a matter of exactly how quickly |
| 06:44.28 | Pimpi | :) |
| 06:45.11 | brlcad | this is the start of a new fiscal year, so my efforts are fortunately refocused back to bzflag considerably more than last fiscal year |
| 06:47.58 | brlcad | i actually get to focus on brl-cad considerably more this year (considerably more than last fiscal year), which oddly enough benefits bzflag both directly and indirectly |
| 06:48.25 | brlcad | so it's looking to be a good year of coding all around |
| 06:55.39 | *** join/#bzflag kahcepb[Ru] (n=den@213.189.217.163) |
| 07:02.57 | *** join/#bzflag Thumper_ (n=bernt@CPE000102d0fe75-CM0012256ecbde.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 07:14.31 | cosmos | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:15.16 | *** join/#bzflag brokenbz (n=Patrick@A407c.a.pppool.de) |
| 07:15.29 | cosmos | interesting nick |
| 07:18.04 | *** part/#bzflag brokenbz (n=Patrick@A407c.a.pppool.de) |
| 07:18.57 | _Manu_ | cosmos returns :) |
| 07:19.58 | cosmos | heh |
| 07:51.35 | jomojo | I have a question about the cheat that allows you to see stealthed and cloaked tanks |
| 07:52.11 | jomojo | would someone be able to use that cheat and it somehow work so that a gm can lock onto stealth tanks? |
| 07:52.53 | _Manu_ | yes |
| 07:53.32 | _Manu_ | to see cloacked and stealthed.. requires a little change in the client, the same for locking ST tanks |
| 07:53.41 | _Manu_ | :( |
| 07:53.54 | _Manu_ | it's an old cheat |
| 07:56.09 | _Manu_ | these are known as subtle cheats http://www.bzflag.org/wiki/KnownCheats |
| 08:10.11 | *** join/#bzflag teh_conquerer (i=teh_conq@host-148-144-230-24.midco.net) |
| 08:52.01 | *** part/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=jeffm@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501) |
| 09:07.35 | *** join/#bzflag newbie_dont (n=newbie_d@fwt.computerland.pl) |
| 09:20.59 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03trepan * 10bzflag/ (include/FlagSceneNode.h src/geometry/FlagSceneNode.cxx): (log message trimmed) |
| 09:20.59 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: changed default flag rendering mode to glDrawArrays - BZDBvar 'flagLists' |
| 09:21.00 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: testing with '+f good{20}', '/roampos 45', linux, geforce3, AMD XP1800+, |
| 09:21.00 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 1152x864, radar and console both disabled: |
| 09:21.00 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: exp qual: lists - 84, nolists - 132 |
| 09:21.01 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: high qual: lists - 122, nolists - 152 |
| 09:21.03 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: med qual: lists - 125, nolists - 156 |
| 09:21.32 | trepan | ... fps numbers |
| 09:23.14 | *** join/#bzflag mmu_man (i=revol@ALyon-253-1-2-105.w83-201.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 09:40.49 | Pimpi | what is /roampos? |
| 09:41.25 | trepan | try it |
| 09:41.31 | trepan | (in observer mode :) |
| 09:41.49 | Pimpi | ah, roaming position ? |
| 09:41.53 | Pimpi | or similar? |
| 09:42.25 | trepan | ya |
| 09:42.32 | trepan | both reports and sets |
| 09:44.18 | Pimpi | what are theta and phi? |
| 09:45.26 | trepan | try them... |
| 09:48.17 | Pimpi | defines the spot you're looking at? |
| 09:48.24 | Pimpi | or direction? |
| 09:48.53 | Pimpi | i tried, but not 100% sure |
| 09:50.28 | trepan | theta = dir about z axis, phi = tilt |
| 09:51.03 | Pimpi | ic |
| 09:51.06 | Pimpi | ty |
| 11:28.28 | *** join/#bzflag mmu_man (i=revol@ALyon-253-1-2-105.w83-201.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 11:58.08 | *** join/#bzflag ep (n=ep@ip68-228-169-106.ok.ok.cox.net) |
| 12:11.02 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=atupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 12:11.02 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 12:13.43 | *** join/#bzflag kahcepb[Ru] (n=den@213.189.217.163) |
| 12:19.40 | *** join/#bzflag SportyGal (i=DonnaCra@24-75-159-182.vnnyca.adelphia.net) |
| 12:52.54 | *** join/#bzflag SportChick (n=SportChi@ca-redbch-cuda1-c3b-a-40.stmnca.adelphia.net) |
| 13:15.45 | Thumper_ | good morning - I have a BZ privilege question |
| 13:15.56 | Thumper_ | is it possible to set up a server so that anon users can play but |
| 13:16.07 | Thumper_ | global unverified players cannot? |
| 13:16.16 | Thumper_ | ie if you impersonate someone you can't play |
| 13:16.47 | Thumper_ | Is there any way to distinguish between a 'this callsign is registered but not verified' versus |
| 13:16.51 | Thumper_ | this callsign is not registered. |
| 13:17.28 | Thumper_ | I'd like to yank talk and spawn privs from unverified registered players |
| 13:30.48 | jpa- | hi thumpii |
| 13:31.04 | jpa- | requireidentify? |
| 13:31.15 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (n=CBG@cpc2-stme1-5-1-cust130.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 13:31.28 | jpa- | hmm :/ |
| 13:31.38 | Thumper_ | not exactly |
| 13:31.41 | jpa- | maybe add requireidentify to group registered? |
| 13:31.59 | Thumper_ | is there a REGISTERED group? |
| 13:32.11 | Thumper_ | there's EVERYONE and VERIFIED |
| 13:32.15 | CBG | can anyone here now help someone activate their global login? |
| 13:32.16 | jpa- | hmm ah |
| 13:32.20 | CBG | "Janis" on #bzchat needs help. |
| 13:32.21 | jpa- | remembered wrong then |
| 13:32.37 | jpa- | i meant verified, but i'm not exactly sure if it works that way.. |
| 13:32.52 | Thumper_ | VERIFIED is after they identify |
| 13:32.54 | Thumper_ | that's too late |
| 13:33.33 | Thumper_ | a REGISTERED group might be useful... |
| 13:33.52 | jpa- | but, i think it works funny |
| 13:33.59 | Thumper_ | ? |
| 13:34.12 | jpa- | and looks if the user _would_ have persmission REQUIREIDENTIFY if he was verified.. |
| 13:34.21 | jpa- | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:34.39 | Thumper_ | hmmm so how does that affect an anon user? |
| 13:35.02 | Thumper_ | I'll go try that on the test server and see what happens |
| 13:38.35 | trepan | Thumper_: Tupone started to add an 'unknown player' response from the auth server that would help do what you want, dunno how far he's gone with it |
| 13:38.37 | Thumper_ | yeah I guess that work |
| 13:38.39 | Thumper_ | works* |
| 13:38.48 | Thumper_ | except for the can't talk thing :) |
| 13:39.05 | Thumper_ | trepan: ok thx |
| 13:39.08 | jpa- | hack the source |
| 13:39.11 | Thumper_ | requireidentify will work for now |
| 13:39.16 | jpa- | but that will work only for the users in userdb |
| 13:39.26 | jpa- | ie. ones that have logined atleast once before |
| 13:39.34 | Thumper_ | I don't have a userdb |
| 13:39.37 | Thumper_ | I use global only |
| 13:39.57 | jpa- | hmm |
| 13:56.35 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=atupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 13:56.35 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 14:01.03 | Pimpi | Thumper_: the group VERIFIED was called REGISTERED in former versions |
| 14:01.21 | jpa- | see, my memory is not THAT bad yet :) |
| 14:02.00 | jpa- | Thumper_: shouldn't be too difficult to modify bzfs to stop talking in addition to spawning |
| 14:02.38 | Pimpi | if a callsign is registered either locally or globally a palyer needs to authentificate if VERIFIED has the perm REQUIREIDENTIFY |
| 14:03.07 | Pimpi | unregistered players can still play and spawn without problems |
| 14:03.41 | Pimpi | talking is bound to the TALK perm |
| 14:05.57 | jpa- | Pimpi: he wants no TALK for non-verified registered users |
| 14:09.19 | Grumbler | non-verified registered......ie, someone using someone elses callsign |
| 14:11.09 | Tupone | the one with a - in front |
| 14:11.58 | jpa- | Tupone: but wasn't there a problem not getting - if the globally registered one had _never_ joined the server before? |
| 14:12.17 | Tupone | was, you're right |
| 14:13.18 | jpa- | so no longer? |
| 14:13.22 | Tupone | :) |
| 14:13.23 | jpa- | and who shall we thank? :) |
| 14:13.35 | Tupone | guess :) |
| 14:13.51 | jpa- | yes, but you are evil |
| 14:14.02 | jpa- | i am so not going to thank you |
| 14:14.19 | Tupone | :) |
| 14:15.59 | jpa- | even your smile shows you are evil: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20030803 |
| 14:18.58 | Thumper_ | ok thanks guys :) |
| 14:31.29 | *** join/#bzflag mmu_man (i=revol@ALyon-253-1-38-218.w83-205.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 14:42.36 | *** join/#bzflag ToughShooter (n=ts@p54B00972.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:53.27 | *** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@68.32.118.193) |
| 15:08.45 | ToughShooter | http://pastebin.com/404098 <-crashlog after joining as observer (probably good old reconnecting bug), sorry for not having a gdb session :( |
| 15:10.13 | *** join/#bzflag brad2901 (i=brad@unaffiliated/brad2901) |
| 15:19.31 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=atupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 15:19.31 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 15:34.19 | *** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@68.32.118.193) |
| 15:42.27 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu) |
| 15:42.28 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v DTRemenak] by ChanServ |
| 15:59.37 | *** join/#bzflag ep (n=ep@ip68-228-169-106.ok.ok.cox.net) |
| 16:14.51 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 16:14.52 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 16:19.08 | *** join/#bzflag wizart (n=wizart@dslb-084-058-099-048.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:31.38 | devster | is there a bzflag icon for linux? |
| 16:33.56 | *** join/#bzflag brad2901 (i=brad@unaffiliated/brad2901) |
| 16:34.24 | DTRemenak | devster: data/bzflag-48x48.png |
| 16:34.29 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpi (n=frank@p54819980.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:44.24 | orange | HUDuiTypeIn.cxx from current CVS won't compile without adding ctype.h |
| 16:44.31 | orange | (for me, obviously) |
| 16:44.53 | cosmos | hey orange |
| 16:44.58 | orange | hey cosmos |
| 16:45.05 | devster | hmm cant get any sound now damnit |
| 16:49.48 | Grumbler | i just did a compile......no issues |
| 16:50.04 | Grumbler | well, "just" as in 3 hours ago |
| 16:50.42 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 16:50.42 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 16:51.44 | orange | Grumbler: I have often needed additional ctype.h headers... older versions of whatever, I guess |
| 16:51.54 | orange | but they keep getting removed from random files periodically |
| 16:52.13 | Grumbler | well, stop using that old stuff :) |
| 16:52.36 | orange | heh... well, I'm not sure why it hurts to have them, so I'm not sure why they are removed |
| 16:53.22 | Grumbler | have to wait and see |
| 16:53.27 | Tupone | orange: where you need that? I did a lot of include removal, but I can put back things that you needs |
| 16:53.38 | orange | Tupone: |
| 16:53.40 | orange | HUDuiTypeIn.cxx from current CVS won't compile without adding ctype.h |
| 16:53.51 | orange | that's the only one I found |
| 16:53.54 | Tupone | what OS ? |
| 16:53.59 | orange | redhat 9 |
| 16:54.23 | Tupone | what is the compiler error? |
| 16:54.32 | orange | argh, it's gone, hang on |
| 16:55.03 | cosmos | redhat 9 is broken. their compilers jacked alot of crap up hit google :) |
| 16:55.42 | orange | http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/26495 |
| 16:56.07 | Tupone | I cleaned alot, maybe too much, but cleaning includes will help CPU compiling |
| 16:56.20 | orange | true |
| 16:56.38 | DTRemenak | not much. all headers should be protected against multiple inclusion anyway |
| 16:56.49 | DTRemenak | just creates a maintenance nightmare of indirect includes for us :( |
| 16:57.25 | Tupone | well, some include are just not needed, when not indirected include |
| 16:57.44 | DTRemenak | yes, no problem with taking out those which are not used |
| 16:57.56 | Tupone | and I'm most against those. The other, I want in, but I don't really know what they are |
| 16:58.20 | DTRemenak | but when a cxx file only gets a symbol through 5 or 8 or 10 layers of header file, something is screwy |
| 16:59.15 | DTRemenak | really need to do symbol-wise analysis to get things clean, and that is a lot of work :) |
| 17:01.07 | Tupone | DTRemenak: I like all things needed to be included directly, and not needed included not included. I did an approximation, and I'm ready to fix it |
| 17:01.41 | *** part/#bzflag SiriusB (n=SiriusB@168.Red-81-36-53.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 17:01.53 | DTRemenak | ok :) I am happy then, work in progress is nothing new :) |
| 17:02.14 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501) |
| 17:02.14 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 17:02.44 | DTRemenak | just was not sure we were all working toward the same goal, and that was worrying |
| 17:03.17 | Tupone | DTRemenak: I guess you did not know me very well, still :( |
| 17:03.30 | DTRemenak | probably true :( |
| 17:03.48 | orange | well, I've had situations before where I've needed ctype.h where others haven't, but you guys can decide whether or not to put it back... I don't mind hand editing |
| 17:04.03 | Tupone | I wonder if cctype is better then ctype.h . orange ... do you have cctype there ? |
| 17:04.24 | orange | guess not, it didn't work |
| 17:04.31 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/HUDuiTypeIn.cxx: cleanups, ctype |
| 17:04.51 | DTRemenak | had some ws changes there anyway |
| 17:05.12 | Tupone | orange: cctype, not cctype.h |
| 17:06.57 | orange | that worked tupone |
| 17:07.36 | Tupone | DTRemenak: As ctype.h is needed in other files, have you anything against using cctype ? |
| 17:08.17 | DTRemenak | Tupone: don't know until I try compile on weird platforms :) |
| 17:08.40 | Tupone | ok, I'll put ctype.h then :) |
| 17:11.25 | DTRemenak | does not look like there are any unprotected c* headers yet in bz |
| 17:12.02 | Tupone | I never saw one, recently |
| 17:12.13 | *** join/#bzflag SilentSwan (n=silent@unaffiliated/silentswan) |
| 17:12.38 | DTRemenak | "Find in files" did not find any :) |
| 17:18.06 | *** join/#bzflag ToughShooter (n=ts@p54B00972.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:18.10 | *** join/#bzflag SiriusB (n=SiriusB@unaffiliated/unaffiliated/x-0000001) |
| 17:22.35 | Tupone | DTRemenak: I'm putting all ctype.h where needed. When you go and test on those weird platform, could you try to s/ctype.h/cctype/g ? |
| 17:24.08 | DTRemenak | sure |
| 17:25.20 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03atupone * 10bzflag/src/ (10 files in 5 dirs): Putting in ctype.h . I guess we need cctype instead |
| 17:25.44 | DTRemenak | actually...I could probably check config.log, we do checks for a couple |
| 17:27.31 | Tupone | :/ as those are put in std:: I don't know if we need to change the code to call them (e.g. std::isspace('a')) |
| 17:28.08 | Tupone | hmm perhaps their are put both in std and in default |
| 17:28.28 | orange | it worked without it, but I don't know if it is 'right' |
| 17:28.47 | Tupone | ah ok. So they are put in both space |
| 17:30.28 | *** join/#bzflag bz2425 (n=d5e2b8fe@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 17:32.07 | DTRemenak | everything I seems to define HAVE_CSTRING at least |
| 17:32.17 | DTRemenak | dunno about mipspro |
| 17:36.13 | *** join/#bzflag ToughShooter_ (n=ts@p54B0352C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:37.34 | JeffM2501 | ok so lets just "say" that there was a map editor project out there that needed a name, what would you name it? |
| 17:41.23 | Grumbler | a map editor for bz? |
| 17:42.44 | Grumbler | hmmm.... bscape, tscape, realer.... |
| 17:43.50 | cosmos | i dont see silvers servers up, i put an all overlord server up for now |
| 17:44.13 | ToughShooter | ~bzfquery silvercat.tybox.net:5154 |
| 17:44.21 | Grumbler | is he still playing with the permissions |
| 17:44.54 | Grumbler | forget that, that was thumper.....unless they have similar impact |
| 17:44.54 | Guu | I've never heard of that, that was thumper.....unless they have similar impact, Grumbler! |
| 17:45.20 | cosmos | what perm issues |
| 17:45.48 | Grumbler | Thumper_ is it possible to set up a server so that anon users can play but |
| 17:45.49 | Grumbler | Thumper_ global unverified players cannot? |
| 17:46.39 | ToughShooter | It is, look at silvercat when it was running or secretplace |
| 17:47.19 | ToughShooter | In case he reads it ;) |
| 18:01.40 | ToughShooter | BZFlag still crashing when re-connecting using CVS HEAD: http://pastebin.com/404268 (the session is still active in case that could help) |
| 18:02.42 | JeffM2501 | Grumbler, yes a map edititor for bz |
| 18:02.54 | ToughShooter | Should I do a bug report at sourceforge? |
| 18:03.17 | ToughShooter | as it seems it doesn't get fixed via crashlogs |
| 18:03.19 | DTRemenak | warning: Previous frame identical to this frame (corrupt stack?) |
| 18:03.29 | DTRemenak | backtrace is useless |
| 18:03.39 | ToughShooter | yeah, I noticed |
| 18:04.14 | Grumbler | JeffM2501, bzscape, Tracks..... |
| 18:04.18 | ToughShooter | or are steps how to reproduce sent here good enough? |
| 18:04.26 | JeffM2501 | bzscape? |
| 18:04.27 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 18:04.55 | JeffM2501 | and lets just "say" it had 2.0 support |
| 18:05.20 | JeffM2501 | and was cross plat |
| 18:05.43 | Grumbler | Bzmesher |
| 18:05.47 | ToughShooter | BZWEdit? |
| 18:05.55 | JeffM2501 | it will not edit meshes |
| 18:06.04 | JeffM2501 | but allow them to be read and placed |
| 18:06.19 | DTRemenak | ToughShooter: steps to reproduce are good |
| 18:06.27 | Grumbler | creation |
| 18:06.27 | JeffM2501 | I ain't gonna reinvent the wheel |
| 18:06.41 | JeffM2501 | in this theoretical editor |
| 18:07.18 | Grumbler | BZWGod |
| 18:07.24 | JeffM2501 | god? |
| 18:07.34 | Grumbler | you place trees....just like god |
| 18:07.39 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 18:07.45 | JeffM2501 | farmers place trees too |
| 18:07.55 | Grumbler | BZWFarm |
| 18:08.09 | Grumbler | ah, i got it....BZFamer |
| 18:08.15 | Grumbler | err, BZFarmer |
| 18:08.24 | ToughShooter | 1. Open BZFlag, 2. Enter a server, 3. Push "Connect", 4. Wait a few seconds and when it downloads the maps (not the texures) quickly hit "Connect" again, 5. There is no step 5. |
| 18:08.54 | Grumbler | could be construction....hmmm....haliburton.......hmmmm |
| 18:09.11 | Grumbler | maybe legos |
| 18:09.39 | Grumbler | blockBuilder |
| 18:10.22 | JeffM2501 | maybe bzedit2? |
| 18:10.23 | Grumbler | BZWFermenter |
| 18:10.43 | Grumbler | heh, sure, cave into convention |
| 18:11.02 | ToughShooter | The name should describe what the app does, like Safari or Keynote but offer a connection to BZFlag or BZW (world file format). |
| 18:11.32 | JeffM2501 | sure because "safari" says "Web browser" to everyone :) |
| 18:11.50 | Grumbler | JeffM2501, you type faster than i do :) |
| 18:11.59 | ToughShooter | A 2 in the name of the app is a bit strange, as it may look like a version bump, not a complete dfferent app |
| 18:12.01 | JeffM2501 | if I was using apple names, it would have 'i' infront of it |
| 18:12.09 | JeffM2501 | and run like ass on all other platforms :) |
| 18:12.11 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03atupone * 10bzflag/configure.ac: plugins are built when --enable-shared |
| 18:12.32 | JeffM2501 | ToughShooter, who's to say it's not a version bump? |
| 18:12.36 | JeffM2501 | just with all new code |
| 18:12.57 | ToughShooter | these **** apps with i in front are nowadays rather bad except itunes, IMHO |
| 18:13.28 | JeffM2501 | yeah if I did an "i" app, I'd have to give it a totaly non standard interface |
| 18:13.33 | ToughShooter | JeffM2501: As long as it doesn't say bzedit2 1.2 it's ok ;) |
| 18:13.38 | JeffM2501 | and call it "ground breaking" |
| 18:13.46 | ToughShooter | heh |
| 18:13.52 | Grumbler | i like the BZscaper........unless you go completely off the wall.......like...BZWShutUpYouLittleTwitsandStopComplainingAboutNotHavingACoolEditor |
| 18:13.57 | JeffM2501 | right now it's called "mapedit" |
| 18:14.31 | JeffM2501 | MunchkinEdit |
| 18:14.40 | DTRemenak | BZMunch |
| 18:14.42 | Grumbler | BZWOz |
| 18:14.54 | ToughShooter | it's missing the connection to this specific game, there could be mapedits for any existing game |
| 18:14.56 | JeffM2501 | TehP0wnz470r |
| 18:15.11 | ToughShooter | bzpwned ;) |
| 18:15.20 | JeffM2501 | ToughShooter, techincaly it is not tied to just bzflag in it's current incarnation |
| 18:15.32 | JeffM2501 | the map storage system supports more then just bzflag objects |
| 18:15.45 | JeffM2501 | in fact it supports any object, |
| 18:15.58 | JeffM2501 | as long as the map has consitent block formations and is text based |
| 18:16.35 | brlcad | cool, flaggers are going to have like 3 or 4 mapping solutions real soon then ;) |
| 18:16.43 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 18:16.50 | DTRemenak | bzwsuyltascanhace |
| 18:16.51 | brlcad | so maybe the twits will shut up somewhat ;) |
| 18:17.06 | JeffM2501 | how will they get brlcad? |
| 18:17.12 | JeffM2501 | is it free? |
| 18:17.17 | DTRemenak | ... |
| 18:17.20 | brlcad | heh, what am I thinking, they'll never shut up |
| 18:17.41 | Grumbler | just 3-4 times more complaints |
| 18:17.44 | JeffM2501 | if there are other solutions that will get actualy DONE then I won't bother |
| 18:17.47 | brlcad | JeffM2501: heh, it's free yes |
| 18:18.00 | Grumbler | nothing actually gets done |
| 18:18.02 | brlcad | going to make a special bzflag release |
| 18:18.04 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, if it's going to support all the stuff, then I shoudl not continue |
| 18:18.22 | brlcad | JeffM2501: nah, continue.. you cut through code like butter ;) |
| 18:18.34 | JeffM2501 | only on nyquill |
| 18:18.41 | *** join/#bzflag YAKarsten (i=karsten@sourcemage/pdpc.sustaining.BearPerson) |
| 18:18.42 | JeffM2501 | I'm not editing meshes tho |
| 18:18.46 | brlcad | imagine what you could do with dayquil |
| 18:18.49 | *** join/#bzflag ep (n=ep@ip68-228-169-106.ok.ok.cox.net) |
| 18:18.53 | DTRemenak | haha |
| 18:19.03 | JeffM2501 | oddly dayquill dosn't do it for me |
| 18:19.31 | JeffM2501 | my core problems for this one is, I don't know much about OSX and GTK/QT |
| 18:19.35 | brlcad | DTRemenak: of course they will, and then there's mged's horribly hidden/complex command-line driven interface to complain about |
| 18:19.36 | JeffM2501 | but I guess I could leave it stubbed |
| 18:19.47 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, what are the 3-4 solutions you are thinking of |
| 18:19.50 | brlcad | if anything, it'll be a pass through to pull it into blender ;) |
| 18:20.00 | DTRemenak | heh :) |
| 18:20.11 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, some modelers/ convertrs, old school bzedit |
| 18:20.13 | JeffM2501 | and what else? |
| 18:21.28 | brlcad | brl-cad, what you're working on, trepan's got something going, the two old editors if anyone ever goes to edit them up, the ibzedit thingy if it ever solidifies, and maybe blender if someone finished the hooks |
| 18:21.42 | JeffM2501 | oh threpan has something going? |
| 18:21.59 | JeffM2501 | if Treapn's doing something then it'll be a lot better then mine |
| 18:22.02 | JeffM2501 | if not visual :) |
| 18:22.12 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, I've seen iBZedit :) |
| 18:22.23 | JeffM2501 | why do you think I'm puting this code into cvs :) |
| 18:22.40 | brlcad | i think he's been adding hooks to pull it into other existing obj brep-based modelers |
| 18:23.18 | JeffM2501 | like bzfs reading from existing formats? |
| 18:23.28 | JeffM2501 | or adding bzflag objects to other editors? |
| 18:24.06 | JeffM2501 | I don't realy want to do this, but I'm sick of people saying there isn't "something" |
| 18:24.06 | brlcad | i'm not going to focus so much on the meshes either, they'll be able to model implicitly using csg and export to bzw with lods on demand -- more one-way at least initially |
| 18:24.31 | brlcad | bzflags objects are mostly available in other editors except the most restrictive |
| 18:24.43 | JeffM2501 | from a project management standpoint I think we should have an "offical" way to make maps |
| 18:24.46 | brlcad | they're a tiny subset of brl-cad's core primitives |
| 18:24.54 | JeffM2501 | and I don't think text cuts it as the "oficial" way anymore |
| 18:25.00 | Grumbler | JeffM2501, we do, its called notepad |
| 18:25.15 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, groups, teleporters, the material stuff, and pysics drivers |
| 18:25.23 | JeffM2501 | those are the ones editors can't do |
| 18:25.35 | JeffM2501 | Grumbler, I know, I don't think that's viable anymore |
| 18:25.39 | brlcad | yep, I have a modeler mod panel for the world aspects |
| 18:25.45 | ToughShooter | Grumbler: Does notepad load big files faster than vim? ;) |
| 18:25.46 | brlcad | and non-geometric map stuff |
| 18:25.51 | JeffM2501 | then brlcad is it |
| 18:25.57 | JeffM2501 | and I don't need to do this |
| 18:26.06 | brlcad | is this ibzedit? |
| 18:26.09 | Grumbler | no, its not viable....but its offical, and its someelses headache |
| 18:26.12 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 18:26.24 | JeffM2501 | it's what binaryspike should have made ibzedit like |
| 18:26.27 | JeffM2501 | this is my own stuff |
| 18:26.28 | brlcad | ahh, so you've seen ibz and it sucked so much that you started coding ;) |
| 18:26.37 | JeffM2501 | I was coding this before he started |
| 18:26.57 | JeffM2501 | I just got to the point where it reads/writes and draws |
| 18:26.58 | ToughShooter | a good official editor is more likely to get people producing better looking maps |
| 18:27.01 | brlcad | you do have the former bzedit that conceivably could be updated to accommodate the windows folk ;) |
| 18:27.24 | JeffM2501 | linux and windows bzedit share similar feature sets |
| 18:27.29 | JeffM2501 | and share some code |
| 18:27.59 | JeffM2501 | this editor uses a platform type of idea |
| 18:28.00 | JeffM2501 | like bz |
| 18:28.35 | brlcad | any "official" editor /should/ probably be written using libplatform and libgame, so the geometry and interface are the same base as the game and server |
| 18:28.55 | JeffM2501 | what interface? |
| 18:28.55 | brlcad | but that would be completely from scratch mostly |
| 18:29.01 | brlcad | using bz's libs |
| 18:29.02 | JeffM2501 | an all in game inteface with badly drawn emnus? |
| 18:29.08 | brlcad | exactly |
| 18:29.21 | JeffM2501 | someone can make that, but I won't |
| 18:29.30 | brlcad | not necessarily in the client, but using the same base libs |
| 18:29.40 | JeffM2501 | this lets each OS display the data in the way that is best for itself |
| 18:29.44 | brlcad | that would be easy to import and continue supported |
| 18:29.51 | JeffM2501 | sure |
| 18:29.55 | JeffM2501 | but it would look like ass :) |
| 18:30.24 | JeffM2501 | if you are going for least comon denominator, make the editor in game |
| 18:30.31 | JeffM2501 | or just let em use text |
| 18:30.56 | DTRemenak | let them eat cake! |
| 18:31.23 | JeffM2501 | now if the world functions were more portable, I can see using the same world classes for game and editor |
| 18:31.29 | JeffM2501 | but interface I can't agree on |
| 18:31.54 | JeffM2501 | the code in game isn't realy set up for manipulation tho |
| 18:32.24 | JeffM2501 | it could get there eventualy |
| 18:33.04 | JeffM2501 | it does sound like there are other solutions coming up |
| 18:33.14 | JeffM2501 | so there isn't really a need for me to finish this I think |
| 18:34.30 | brlcad | i aint going to discourage you, writing the parser was enough of a feat to support all of the .bzw syntax just from a parsing standpoint |
| 18:34.51 | JeffM2501 | yeah tell me about it |
| 18:35.04 | JeffM2501 | tho I thought of it on a difrent level |
| 18:35.18 | JeffM2501 | my parser itself dosnt' support any objects |
| 18:35.30 | brlcad | going to toss that puppy into bzfs as a validation option on maps |
| 18:35.32 | JeffM2501 | it just stores them as chunks |
| 18:35.54 | JeffM2501 | I wanted a parser that could deal with custom stuff |
| 18:36.00 | JeffM2501 | or future things it may not know about |
| 18:36.03 | brlcad | i think, if I can work out the failure recovery easily enough |
| 18:36.22 | brlcad | yeah, I'm wrestling with that now |
| 18:36.35 | brlcad | whether to leave it strict, or open it up to mistakes and continue parsing |
| 18:36.47 | JeffM2501 | I'd like to see maps define what plugins they need, and maps have plugin specific data |
| 18:37.22 | JeffM2501 | heh, every time binary spike finishes a thing, he posts on his forums about it. |
| 18:39.05 | brlcad | as long as we continue with the same "block" syntax, plugin extensions become a cinch |
| 18:39.11 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:39.30 | JeffM2501 | will your parser/editor system keep that data if the map is edited in brlcad tho? |
| 18:39.36 | JeffM2501 | or will it blow it out? |
| 18:39.45 | brlcad | that would basically be no different than how I handle the "options" blocks now |
| 18:40.02 | JeffM2501 | so you'd keep it? |
| 18:40.12 | brlcad | it just identifies the block and stores all the options it finds verbatum without dorking/parsing each option |
| 18:40.17 | JeffM2501 | my idea was, if I didn't know what a block was, I just let them edit the text of it |
| 18:40.21 | JeffM2501 | and don't draw it |
| 18:40.31 | DTRemenak | could define some additional plugin entry points for dealing with map data specifically, then have the editors load the plugins directly to run verification or whatever |
| 18:40.32 | JeffM2501 | same idea then |
| 18:40.33 | brlcad | since I didn't want to double up the parser with all of bzfs' options too, that's be a horrid complexity |
| 18:40.58 | JeffM2501 | sounds like brlcad will do all the same stuff then |
| 18:41.18 | brlcad | you'd just need to define one container block like "extension" or "plugin", etc, that could be universally ignored |
| 18:41.36 | JeffM2501 | I ignore any name I don't know about |
| 18:42.08 | brlcad | this bit isn't exactly brl-cad yet, it's just a full bzw parser that reads the bzw into structures in memory, validates syntax, preserves comments, structure, etc |
| 18:42.09 | JeffM2501 | so that it would just do the same thing for future features too |
| 18:42.15 | Grumbler | would rather see it a "misc" block where the contents can be manipulated while the editor is up........instead of having to pull up a separate editor |
| 18:42.18 | brlcad | it will be the converter when I'm done though |
| 18:42.33 | JeffM2501 | Grumbler, that was my idea |
| 18:42.42 | JeffM2501 | basicly if it dosn't have a handler for the object |
| 18:42.44 | brlcad | the problem with ignoring any name is then you don't know if something was a syntax mistake or an extension |
| 18:42.55 | brlcad | you wrap it in a block and you'll know |
| 18:42.57 | JeffM2501 | you can still edit it, it just brings up a little text edit box with the text for the object in it |
| 18:43.09 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, true |
| 18:43.13 | Grumbler | yeah, thats would be handy |
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| 18:43.33 | JeffM2501 | my method lets me also implemnt editor features piecemeal |
| 18:43.50 | JeffM2501 | any I don't do off the bat are still useable |
| 18:43.57 | JeffM2501 | just not as clean as possible |
| 18:43.57 | brlcad | the problem i'm seeing already, though, is a horrible namespace pollution |
| 18:44.11 | JeffM2501 | well we know the map format sucks :) |
| 18:44.18 | brlcad | it's going to just get worse for future parsers or modeler makers if it continues to grow like this |
| 18:44.23 | JeffM2501 | all that mesh stuff had to be hacked in there |
| 18:44.33 | JeffM2501 | this is one case where XML would work |
| 18:44.37 | JeffM2501 | but it's patented |
| 18:44.38 | brlcad | it's not horrible, just getting more and more bloated with subtle unnecessary inconsistencies |
| 18:45.28 | brlcad | the mesh stuff is some of the most inconsistent of all, the old stuff is pretty straightforward, albeit simplistic |
| 18:45.36 | JeffM2501 | it wasn't designed to be extended |
| 18:45.48 | JeffM2501 | I'd personaly rather see meshes handled as links to external obj files |
| 18:46.07 | JeffM2501 | tho we have all that pydriver/dynamic material stuff |
| 18:46.28 | brlcad | most of the limitations I see aren't exactly failures of the format but of forethought on the syntax impact and ease of coding in bz |
| 18:46.32 | JeffM2501 | a format that just had a universal surface descriptor could be better |
| 18:46.37 | JeffM2501 | like the BSPs do |
| 18:47.10 | JeffM2501 | well I don't forsee maps being human readable due to complextiy for much longer |
| 18:47.36 | brlcad | it's not just human readable, it's got decent structure |
| 18:48.14 | JeffM2501 | well the origonal format didn't have a method for sub objects |
| 18:48.25 | JeffM2501 | and that's what trepan needed for groups and meshes |
| 18:48.34 | JeffM2501 | that's why they are inconsitent |
| 18:50.58 | brlcad | that's true |
| 18:51.07 | JeffM2501 | I'm just weighing the advantages and disadvantages of doing this |
| 18:51.10 | brlcad | though he also shoehorned in a pseudo preprocessor |
| 18:51.13 | JeffM2501 | 1) I'll catch crap for it |
| 18:51.19 | brlcad | where probably a real preprocessor would have been better |
| 18:51.24 | JeffM2501 | 2) if there are better systems it may not be worth it |
| 18:51.40 | JeffM2501 | but on the + side it may be cool to use it to learn other windowing systems |
| 18:51.59 | brlcad | i can't see you catching crap for it |
| 18:52.07 | brlcad | until you mess with the format ;) |
| 18:52.08 | Grumbler | i can |
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| 18:52.20 | JeffM2501 | you think binary spike is going to just sit down and take it nicely when I tell him it supports OSX? |
| 18:52.22 | brlcad | since I'll complain |
| 18:52.28 | brlcad | i just got it working :) |
| 18:52.42 | JeffM2501 | trepan will give me crap for helping the munchkins too |
| 18:52.46 | JeffM2501 | so I will get some crap |
| 18:52.51 | brlcad | heh |
| 18:53.09 | JeffM2501 | the bigest thing would be it woudl totaly derail iBZedit |
| 18:53.22 | JeffM2501 | and the little guy is having such fun doing it |
| 18:53.28 | JeffM2501 | even tho he has 0 clue for app design |
| 18:53.41 | ToughShooter | Hmm, XML seems to be only patented in America :o |
| 18:53.44 | Grumbler | dont do it |
| 18:53.57 | brlcad | patent shatent |
| 18:54.15 | JeffM2501 | well if grumber dosn't want me to make an editor, then I shoudl listen to him |
| 18:54.15 | ToughShooter | It's a shame that this got patented :/ |
| 18:54.36 | JeffM2501 | oh I think you'll find that if that pattent holds it will be much more then XML |
| 18:54.42 | Tupone | XML, I guess prior arts will eat those patent |
| 18:54.46 | JeffM2501 | the patent is for "sending data in a nutral format" |
| 18:54.58 | Grumbler | at least dont make it public till long after its done |
| 18:55.10 | JeffM2501 | Grumbler, well that's a given |
| 18:55.19 | JeffM2501 | no public till it has real features |
| 18:55.31 | JeffM2501 | and works |
| 18:55.39 | brlcad | ah, that thing -- that's just a frivalous case that wouldn't have gotten light of day otherwise had /. not thought it would cause an uproar kneejerk response |
| 18:56.26 | brlcad | it's even less relevant to xml as it specifically targets non-hierarchical data in a nuetral format iirc |
| 18:56.38 | JeffM2501 | mostly I'm just curios if I made it, would people use it, and help me out on it ( by at least sugesting stuff and ideas ) |
| 18:57.05 | JeffM2501 | I don't want a repeat of bzedit1 |
| 18:57.44 | Grumbler | heh |
| 18:58.13 | ToughShooter | What was going on with bzedit1? |
| 18:58.46 | devster | should the sounds on linux match those on windows? |
| 18:58.48 | JeffM2501 | I made it, noone uses it, I lost interest, then it seemed like EVERYONE wanted to use it |
| 18:58.51 | JeffM2501 | and it needed work |
| 18:59.00 | JeffM2501 | devster, yes |
| 18:59.30 | devster | JeffM2501: what reasons would the sound on linux sound like from a 8bit games console then? :) |
| 18:59.38 | JeffM2501 | crap card |
| 18:59.40 | JeffM2501 | crap drivers |
| 18:59.44 | JeffM2501 | crap build |
| 18:59.44 | JeffM2501 | crap sdl |
| 18:59.47 | JeffM2501 | or crap speakers :) |
| 19:00.04 | Grumbler | that might explain why the wind is blowing the wrong way.....hurricane remenants |
| 19:00.05 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: at least two other people worked on bzedit...just not until you got fed up with it :) |
| 19:00.14 | JeffM2501 | that they did |
| 19:00.18 | JeffM2501 | and I am thankfull for them |
| 19:00.27 | ToughShooter | JeffM2501: Some things need time to be liked ;) |
| 19:00.31 | devster | well xmms plays fine |
| 19:00.37 | JeffM2501 | but if I do it all over again, it would be great to have help and support, at least in testing during dev |
| 19:00.55 | devster | its using onboard sound from my nforce4 mobo and i've installed the nvidia drivers |
| 19:00.56 | ToughShooter | Like some musicans that got really popular after being dead |
| 19:00.56 | Grumbler | yeah, ok, you suckered me in |
| 19:00.56 | JeffM2501 | but then when I also made it, I was very new to the IRC "arena" |
| 19:01.14 | JeffM2501 | I also wrote it in a day and it was totaly crap code |
| 19:01.18 | Tupone | devster: what driver is bzflag using ? |
| 19:01.34 | devster | how do i check? |
| 19:01.45 | Tupone | bzflag chat area |
| 19:02.09 | devster | just says dsp |
| 19:02.11 | I_Died_Once | when you first load the game |
| 19:02.24 | Tupone | so you have alsa ? |
| 19:02.29 | devster | apparently so |
| 19:02.55 | devster | i havent really used linux as a desktop so don't know a lot about the sound config |
| 19:03.02 | Tupone | I don't think sound is different with alsa, but you can write alsa to options->Audio->driver |
| 19:03.21 | Tupone | and see if that is better |
| 19:03.44 | devster | ok |
| 19:04.58 | devster | ok now it says unavailable |
| 19:05.03 | I_Died_Once | gah |
| 19:05.11 | Tupone | ok, you don't have alsa then :( |
| 19:05.25 | devster | and i also can't get it back |
| 19:05.26 | Tupone | clean that |
| 19:05.32 | Tupone | why? |
| 19:05.50 | devster | i dont know |
| 19:06.00 | devster | like i say, i dont know a lot abount sound config in linux |
| 19:06.08 | Tupone | you have to clean the entry and then press return |
| 19:06.43 | devster | ok its back :) |
| 19:07.27 | I_Died_Once | I have alsa |
| 19:07.47 | I_Died_Once | what kind of soundcard do you have, Tupone? |
| 19:08.17 | I_Died_Once | I went through hell getting this generic one that came with my Dell working |
| 19:08.19 | Tupone | the best :) well the best unprofessional ... live |
| 19:08.27 | Tupone | SB live |
| 19:08.39 | I_Died_Once | does it take the emu10k1 (or something close) driver? |
| 19:08.45 | Tupone | yep |
| 19:08.51 | I_Died_Once | I have the same damn card |
| 19:08.54 | I_Died_Once | or the same drive |
| 19:08.57 | I_Died_Once | so WTF |
| 19:09.06 | I_Died_Once | I wasnt here earlier so tell me from the top |
| 19:09.24 | Tupone | we didn't say anything :/ |
| 19:09.30 | I_Died_Once | oh |
| 19:09.35 | I_Died_Once | so is it working? |
| 19:09.42 | Tupone | what is your problem ? |
| 19:09.53 | I_Died_Once | I thought you were having problems with yours |
| 19:09.55 | Tupone | just devster does not like bzflag sound |
| 19:10.27 | Tupone | me ? nope. I did the code to support audio from SDL :) |
| 19:10.46 | Tupone | I mean ... in bzflag |
| 19:11.03 | I_Died_Once | well damn son, my bad |
| 19:11.16 | I_Died_Once | from my end coming in, itseemed as if you or someonoe was having a soundacard problem |
| 19:11.25 | jomojo | JeffM2501: I think the list may need to be restarted a bit sluggish |
| 19:11.54 | devster | just as a general question, how loud is your sound in linux? |
| 19:11.55 | Tupone | devster sound is not good as he expected |
| 19:12.05 | Tupone | very loud :) |
| 19:12.25 | Tupone | so I need to get a hearphone, to not wake other during the night |
| 19:12.28 | I_Died_Once | for me the defaults were very quiet |
| 19:12.31 | I_Died_Once | or low |
| 19:12.38 | I_Died_Once | I had to run it up to really hear it |
| 19:12.46 | devster | ok, just i cant get my speakers over 1/4 volume without going deaf :) |
| 19:13.16 | I_Died_Once | then it started getting on my nerves, and I have it really low with my steroe on playing other music |
| 19:13.51 | Tupone | but I got a mixer, actually 2, one computer, one monitor, so I can choose the volume I want to hear |
| 19:47.41 | I_Died_Once | so wegstar told me the source for his IRC plugin was written on windows, and he doesnt know anything on how to make it compile for *nix |
| 19:48.05 | I_Died_Once | told me to seek elsewhere then his for help on how |
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| 20:27.14 | brlcad | hrm, that's not the right key now was it |
| 20:28.03 | Grumbler | only 24 |
| 20:28.07 | brlcad | nice n breezy out |
| 20:29.58 | Grumbler | like mars for instance |
| 20:30.48 | ToughShooter | It would be interesting to know what effects would occur when earth rotation speeds up near the speed of light |
| 20:31.04 | *** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@68.50.155.230) |
| 20:31.15 | Grumbler | you have way too much time on your hands ToughShooter |
| 20:32.54 | SportyGal | !weather 90277 |
| 20:32.58 | brlcad | mmmm |
| 20:33.00 | Guu | SportyGal: The current temperature in Weather Underground is 63°F. |
| 20:33.06 | brlcad | i had lots of sushi on friday.. LOTS |
| 20:33.24 | SportyGal | brlcad: yummmmmmmy |
| 20:33.58 | brlcad | SportyGal: it was! :) |
| 20:34.08 | brlcad | best i've had in many months |
| 20:34.21 | SportyGal | hrm - and you didn't invite US?! |
| 20:34.51 | brlcad | you're always invited |
| 20:35.01 | SportyGal | hrmph |
| 20:35.09 | JeffM2501 | danke |
| 20:38.08 | JeffM2501 | ibot 8ball, should I make it? |
| 20:39.00 | Grumbler | ~8ball |
| 20:39.01 | ibot | ACTION rolls the eight ball and gets: Better not tell you now |
| 20:39.22 | JeffM2501 | I hate waiting |
| 20:39.39 | Grumbler | maybe you should ask the right question |
| 20:39.50 | Grumbler | i hear it cuts the wait in half |
| 20:39.50 | JeffM2501 | it knows the quesion |
| 20:39.59 | JeffM2501 | I asked it the quesions |
| 20:40.09 | JeffM2501 | ~8ball should I make it? |
| 20:40.17 | ibot | Sure. Yeah, exactly. |
| 20:40.17 | JeffM2501 | see asking |
| 20:40.17 | JeffM2501 | right there |
| 20:40.30 | Grumbler | see |
| 20:40.39 | JeffM2501 | exactly dosn't really fit |
| 20:40.40 | Grumbler | its all in the quesion |
| 20:40.47 | JeffM2501 | I don't think ibot understands |
| 20:40.58 | Grumbler | sure doesnt cut it |
| 20:41.02 | JeffM2501 | tho ibot isn't gonna use the bloddy thing :) |
| 20:42.05 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, if this helps with your verification thing, I belive bzfs ignores any objects that it dosn't know about, as long as they fit the NAME/end format |
| 20:43.24 | SportyGal | ~8ball does JeffM know what he's talking about? |
| 20:43.27 | ibot | Yes. |
| 20:43.34 | SportyGal | hehe |
| 20:49.55 | JeffM2501 | you think anyone would use it Grumbler? |
| 20:50.23 | Grumbler | just a converter.....probably not |
| 20:50.39 | JeffM2501 | no no, the full blown editor |
| 20:50.54 | JeffM2501 | by Just, I meant not supporting old boxes |
| 20:51.03 | JeffM2501 | and allways converting them on red |
| 20:51.12 | JeffM2501 | less objects to support |
| 20:51.30 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03atupone * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/ (15 files): removing our include from HUDDialog.h |
| 20:51.58 | Tupone | I wonder if old box are slower/faster then meshes for collision |
| 20:51.59 | Grumbler | full blown......since write now brl-cad might have a funky interface......not many own macs.........i think a few would use it.........but it would have to keep up any changes in bzw file format |
| 20:52.26 | Tupone | s/then/than/ |
| 20:52.28 | JeffM2501 | what if it supported all 3 major OSs |
| 20:53.04 | Grumbler | well considering you are probably marketing to 6-10 people........it would help |
| 20:53.13 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 20:53.14 | JeffM2501 | that is true |
| 20:53.21 | JeffM2501 | 6-10 |
| 20:53.24 | JeffM2501 | what's the point then |
| 20:53.24 | Grumbler | yeah |
| 20:53.54 | Grumbler | the point is you might get another louman through ease of i/f |
| 20:54.10 | JeffM2501 | possibly |
| 20:54.23 | JeffM2501 | tho that's tallent |
| 20:54.25 | JeffM2501 | not tool |
| 20:54.37 | JeffM2501 | the truely talented will find tools |
| 20:54.43 | JeffM2501 | and there are tools |
| 20:54.43 | Grumbler | yeah, but some people get turned on with tool ease |
| 20:54.58 | JeffM2501 | I don't know how good of a tool dev I am |
| 20:55.02 | Grumbler | heh |
| 20:55.34 | JeffM2501 | the blender method sounds the most interesting |
| 20:55.39 | Grumbler | i think a semi-encapsulated editor would be a benefit to all......assuming meshes are created elsewhere |
| 20:55.49 | JeffM2501 | then perhaps even just making bzfs use blender files directly |
| 20:55.51 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 20:56.00 | JeffM2501 | I don't want to make meshes |
| 20:56.05 | JeffM2501 | better tools for that |
| 20:56.14 | JeffM2501 | I can compute LOD tho |
| 20:56.47 | Grumbler | direct blender files would be nice.......personally, i hate having to jump through all the hoops with 2.0 maps |
| 20:56.53 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 20:57.11 | JeffM2501 | if we made a converter that would change all maps |
| 20:57.13 | Grumbler | the hoops have turned off my map making fires |
| 20:57.19 | JeffM2501 | then maybe legacy isn't a big issue |
| 20:57.37 | Grumbler | screw legacy.....someone can write a converter later |
| 20:57.38 | JeffM2501 | is the future in object placement? or mesh editing? |
| 20:57.45 | JeffM2501 | the fureure of maps that is |
| 20:58.20 | Grumbler | a little of both, leaning a lot towards mesh |
| 20:59.46 | JeffM2501 | so an object placement editor may have limited use, even then |
| 21:00.03 | JeffM2501 | if all the real editing is done in a mesh editor |
| 21:00.25 | Grumbler | yeah, it might allow you better placement and size |
| 21:00.35 | JeffM2501 | there could be benifit if the object editor could detect changes in the mesh |
| 21:00.42 | JeffM2501 | and reimport the mesh |
| 21:00.48 | Grumbler | that would be nice |
| 21:00.58 | JeffM2501 | that leads me more to my other idea |
| 21:01.04 | JeffM2501 | where the editor keeps a "proejct" file |
| 21:01.11 | Grumbler | trying to get placement and size right for the meshes is a pain just in blender |
| 21:01.13 | JeffM2501 | and dosn't use bzw for a native |
| 21:01.29 | JeffM2501 | blender also can't show the dynamic color stuff |
| 21:01.31 | Grumbler | post conversion then |
| 21:01.39 | JeffM2501 | yeah a "save as bzw" |
| 21:01.45 | JeffM2501 | it's more steps |
| 21:01.56 | Grumbler | you could use it to model the future bzw file format |
| 21:02.21 | JeffM2501 | that would make brlcad mad :) |
| 21:02.42 | JeffM2501 | or I cheap out and store stuff in comments |
| 21:02.46 | JeffM2501 | in the bzw file |
| 21:02.51 | Grumbler | yuck |
| 21:03.30 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 21:03.41 | JeffM2501 | thats why a project file sounds better |
| 21:05.01 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03atupone * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/ (4 files): Removing our includes from HUDDialogStack.h |
| 21:05.39 | JeffM2501 | think a project file type of deal would be easy enough to explain? |
| 21:09.43 | brlcad | Tupone: mathematically, boxes and pyramids are faster for collision detection -- whether bz exhibits this is up to implementation .. ;) |
| 21:10.01 | Tupone | brlcad: :) |
| 21:10.13 | JeffM2501 | bzfs may break them all down to the same base face primitive now |
| 21:10.19 | JeffM2501 | so it may be the same |
| 21:11.55 | Tupone | I hope they don't, as all object will have same problem I remember meshes had. I don't know anymore, cause I stopped playing inside meshed worlds |
| 21:12.14 | JeffM2501 | trepan has been optimising a lot |
| 21:12.17 | JeffM2501 | and fixing a lot |
| 21:12.23 | JeffM2501 | but I am not 100% sure |
| 21:13.23 | *** join/#bzflag Ice_Wewe (n=Ice_Wewe@ppp-216-106-107-249.storm.ca) |
| 21:13.46 | Tupone | optimizing is not for me :/ what get optimized is a complex world not the stupid simple world I play on |
| 21:13.46 | Ice_Wewe | how do you make moving water? |
| 21:14.02 | Ice_Wewe | I've been looking at a lot of LouMan's maps, trying to figure it out, and I just can't! |
| 21:14.16 | JeffM2501 | Ice_Wewe, you mean how the visual just moves? |
| 21:14.22 | Ice_Wewe | JeffM2501: yes |
| 21:14.22 | JeffM2501 | or when people fall in it they move? |
| 21:14.31 | JeffM2501 | apply a texture matrix to the material |
| 21:14.33 | JeffM2501 | with a slide |
| 21:14.34 | Ice_Wewe | JeffM2501: no, visually moving |
| 21:14.38 | JeffM2501 | in just u and or v |
| 21:14.39 | Ice_Wewe | slide 10 0 0 |
| 21:14.43 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 21:14.47 | Ice_Wewe | really? |
| 21:14.49 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 21:14.53 | JeffM2501 | on the texture matrix |
| 21:15.02 | JeffM2501 | that will slide the texture over the object |
| 21:15.21 | Ice_Wewe | textureMatrix |
| 21:15.21 | Ice_Wewe | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:15.22 | Ice_Wewe | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:15.22 | Ice_Wewe | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:15.23 | brlcad | Grumbler: funky interface, supports every platform bz does (and then some), and relatively extensive documentation/tutorials to learn the interface |
| 21:15.25 | Ice_Wewe | so that will do it? |
| 21:15.43 | Ice_Wewe | or do you specify size as well? |
| 21:15.47 | JeffM2501 | Ice_Wewe, should |
| 21:15.51 | JeffM2501 | tho you don't need the shift |
| 21:15.52 | Grumbler | brlcad, if its not point and click, its funky :) |
| 21:15.58 | JeffM2501 | it's a texture not an object |
| 21:16.02 | brlcad | it's got point and click |
| 21:16.15 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, techincaly blender has the same, you see how many use that :) |
| 21:16.21 | Grumbler | JeffM2501, i think you are right, it will make brlcad mad ;) |
| 21:16.24 | Ice_Wewe | textureMatrix |
| 21:16.24 | Ice_Wewe | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:16.24 | Ice_Wewe | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:16.24 | Ice_Wewe | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:16.27 | Ice_Wewe | oops |
| 21:16.32 | Ice_Wewe | forgot a return |
| 21:16.36 | JeffM2501 | you dn't need the size |
| 21:16.40 | brlcad | cept nobody has polished the integration with blender |
| 21:16.40 | JeffM2501 | youjust want to slide it |
| 21:16.41 | JeffM2501 | that's it |
| 21:16.42 | Ice_Wewe | oh, ok |
| 21:16.47 | JeffM2501 | unless you need to scale it too? |
| 21:16.49 | brlcad | so it's basically useless |
| 21:16.52 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, true |
| 21:17.02 | Tupone | i would like to branch pretty soon :/ 2.0.6 out ? |
| 21:17.11 | JeffM2501 | if it can do every single feature people will probably learn to use it |
| 21:17.24 | JeffM2501 | Tupone, so branch |
| 21:17.29 | brlcad | again, i'm not saying don't do.. i'd say do it regardless if you wanna |
| 21:17.34 | JeffM2501 | and make anyone with changes merge em |
| 21:17.48 | brlcad | my work is fairly independent, it'll be done when it's done ;) |
| 21:18.01 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, I'm want what is best for the people |
| 21:18.01 | Ice_Wewe | JeffM2501: (line 3): unknown object parameter "slide" - skipping |
| 21:18.07 | JeffM2501 | Id ont' want to confuse them |
| 21:18.18 | JeffM2501 | Ice_Wewe, is slide the right thing |
| 21:18.21 | Ice_Wewe | textureMatrix |
| 21:18.21 | Ice_Wewe | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:18.21 | Ice_Wewe | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:18.21 | Ice_Wewe | end |
| 21:18.23 | JeffM2501 | did you read the man page? |
| 21:18.31 | Ice_Wewe | slide has a man page?! |
| 21:18.36 | brlcad | last I looked at the collision code, it didn't simplify -- there are basic primitives for the collisions |
| 21:18.41 | JeffM2501 | bzw has a man page |
| 21:18.52 | Ice_Wewe | is there a wiki for moving water? |
| 21:18.56 | Grumbler | brlcad, blender is fine, except in that the size and relative postion of objects in a set world is difficult to manage.......hopefully brl-cad does it better :) |
| 21:19.04 | Ice_Wewe | brlcad: you mean that tanks will no longer go right through each other? |
| 21:19.16 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, I was thinking of some ease of map making tools |
| 21:19.23 | JeffM2501 | like a way to put a template tank in the map for scale |
| 21:19.32 | JeffM2501 | with things that show how high it can jump and stuff |
| 21:19.33 | brlcad | i know, just pointing out what I recall from teh code ;) |
| 21:20.00 | JeffM2501 | Ice_Wewe, he was just answering a question we had about meshes, not talking about an enhancment |
| 21:20.12 | Ice_Wewe | JeffM2501: to bad, that'd be sweet |
| 21:20.24 | JeffM2501 | it wouuld be a large change to gameplay |
| 21:20.26 | Ice_Wewe | JeffM2501: heh, having tanks jump on top of each other |
| 21:20.26 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 21:20.29 | JeffM2501 | and could totaly not be in a compatable release |
| 21:20.33 | *** topic/#bzflag by Tupone -> http://BZFlag.org/ || http://my.BZFlag.org/bb/ || http://my.BZFlag.org/ || http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag || http://BZFlag.org/wiki/GettingHelp || http://BZFlag.org/wiki/Download || #bzchat if you just want to chat || paste errors to http://bzflag.pastebin.ca || BZFlag 2.1.x branch will happen soon. Please commit what is supposed to go into 2.0.6 |
| 21:20.49 | Tupone | I'd give few days |
| 21:20.50 | Ice_Wewe | is 2.0.6 out yet? (CVS) |
| 21:20.54 | JeffM2501 | Tupone, cvs will help them merge, just branch it |
| 21:21.07 | JeffM2501 | take the bull by the horns :) |
| 21:21.25 | JeffM2501 | Ice_Wewe, you want shift |
| 21:21.26 | JeffM2501 | not slide |
| 21:21.29 | Ice_Wewe | JeffM2501: so why wont my water work? I did what you said would work... |
| 21:21.30 | Ice_Wewe | oh, ok |
| 21:21.36 | brlcad | Grumbler: and blender's interface is also on the opposite extreme of being "easy to use" (i.e. still difficult even with a tutorial) |
| 21:21.40 | Ice_Wewe | ty |
| 21:21.44 | JeffM2501 | Ice_Wewe, I don't know the map for mat by heart |
| 21:21.49 | JeffM2501 | I had asumed you read the manual |
| 21:21.58 | brlcad | it's definitely got the best mesh support though |
| 21:22.02 | Ice_Wewe | brlcad: can you now make maps for bzflag with blender? or is the plugin not finished? |
| 21:22.16 | JeffM2501 | the plugin isn't finished |
| 21:22.19 | Ice_Wewe | nuts |
| 21:22.21 | JeffM2501 | but you can make maps in blender |
| 21:22.24 | JeffM2501 | using external converters |
| 21:22.24 | brlcad | Ice_Wewe: i'm working on a different one, and no it's not finished ;) |
| 21:22.34 | Ice_Wewe | is there a plugin for wigs3d linux? |
| 21:22.47 | JeffM2501 | the same plugin for wings is on ALL OSs |
| 21:22.48 | brlcad | seems to be the latest fad, everyone's working on one |
| 21:22.52 | Ice_Wewe | Win Xp is busy making maps in wings3d, and having them work, he said the plugin was only for Windoze |
| 21:22.55 | JeffM2501 | as it says in the post |
| 21:22.59 | Ice_Wewe | cool |
| 21:23.01 | JeffM2501 | win XP is a fool |
| 21:23.11 | JeffM2501 | he can't read to save his life |
| 21:23.42 | Ice_Wewe | uhhh JeffM2501, when I go to check my work, there is no water in the map, do I have to define something else with it? |
| 21:23.52 | JeffM2501 | umm yeah |
| 21:23.55 | JeffM2501 | you have to define water |
| 21:23.58 | brlcad | Ice_Wewe: did you read the manpage? |
| 21:24.00 | Ice_Wewe | oh.... |
| 21:24.01 | JeffM2501 | and what material for it to use |
| 21:24.07 | JeffM2501 | yeah READ THE FREAKING MANUAL |
| 21:24.17 | JeffM2501 | comeon man, I know your smarter then that |
| 21:24.17 | Ice_Wewe | brlcad: everyone is talking about this man page, if I knew where it was, I'd be off reading it! |
| 21:24.25 | JeffM2501 | Ice_Wewe, www.bzflag.org |
| 21:24.30 | JeffM2501 | "getting help" link |
| 21:24.32 | JeffM2501 | read it |
| 21:24.33 | Ice_Wewe | JeffM2501: no one has told me where it is, if they had, I'd be there already |
| 21:24.38 | Ice_Wewe | JeffM2501: ahh, TY |
| 21:24.44 | JeffM2501 | Ice_Wewe, because it's on the common sense mainpage |
| 21:25.06 | brlcad | ~google bzw manpage |
| 21:25.12 | Ice_Wewe | JeffM2501: heh, thanks |
| 21:25.32 | JeffM2501 | why does everyone need it allways spelled out for them? |
| 21:26.03 | SportyGal | JeffM2501: cuz they aren't as smart as you :) |
| 21:26.09 | brlcad | they're just .. uh testing you ;) |
| 21:26.09 | Ice_Wewe | JeffM2501: hmm, when I search nothing shows up for "water" or "shift" |
| 21:26.35 | Ice_Wewe | more like testing his ability to not kill me |
| 21:26.37 | SportyGal | JeffM2501: and cuz you humor them by answering their questions so they never learn to figure it out onw their own |
| 21:27.39 | brlcad | Ice_Wewe: I'm not sure what you're reading, but there's quite a bit on water and shift |
| 21:28.13 | JeffM2501 | Ice_Wewe, read the entire manual |
| 21:28.16 | JeffM2501 | dont' skim |
| 21:28.17 | JeffM2501 | learn |
| 21:28.31 | JeffM2501 | I don't think it has to do with smarts |
| 21:28.33 | Ice_Wewe | brlcad: on the "getting help" page, in the search bar, I type "water" or "shift" and I get nothing |
| 21:28.36 | JeffM2501 | it has to do with upbringing |
| 21:28.45 | Ice_Wewe | JeffM2501: gone back to looking at LouMan's maps |
| 21:28.45 | JeffM2501 | Ice_Wewe, did I say to search the page |
| 21:28.51 | JeffM2501 | Ice_Wewe, I said to READ the bloddy thing |
| 21:28.55 | Ice_Wewe | JeffM2501: uhh, no |
| 21:29.00 | JeffM2501 | at the botom there is a link to the man pages |
| 21:29.04 | JeffM2501 | use your brain man |
| 21:29.20 | JeffM2501 | is it that hard to read a web page? |
| 21:29.24 | *** join/#bzflag blast007 (n=blast007@198.150.76.4) |
| 21:29.32 | JeffM2501 | or does it all have to be feed to you via a search command? |
| 21:29.44 | JeffM2501 | heck just pay louman to make your map, that'd be easyer |
| 21:29.46 | JeffM2501 | less reading |
| 21:30.22 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 21:31.32 | JeffM2501 | chiroparacter would be more helpfull |
| 21:33.14 | SportyGal | JeffM2501: why? did you hurt something? |
| 21:33.33 | JeffM2501 | fell down the stairs |
| 21:34.04 | JeffM2501 | I think I just need one more good pop and I'll be back to normal |
| 21:34.46 | SportyGal | JeffM2501: wow!! when? how? are you ok? |
| 21:34.57 | *** join/#bzflag blast007 (n=blast007@198.150.76.4) |
| 21:34.59 | JeffM2501 | week before last |
| 21:35.03 | JeffM2501 | friday |
| 21:35.11 | JeffM2501 | we don't have handrails |
| 21:35.13 | JeffM2501 | and I was in socks |
| 21:35.20 | JeffM2501 | and carying stuff |
| 21:35.22 | JeffM2501 | so boom |
| 21:35.45 | SportyGal | eek |
| 21:36.32 | JeffM2501 | it's mostly better |
| 21:36.36 | JeffM2501 | just one more crack |
| 21:37.22 | SportyGal | still - sorry to hear that. Was it your back that you hurt? |
| 21:38.51 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 21:38.56 | JeffM2501 | fell on my butt |
| 21:38.59 | JeffM2501 | but it's well padded |
| 21:39.09 | JeffM2501 | compressed part of my back |
| 21:39.12 | JeffM2501 | made it very mad |
| 21:39.16 | SportyGal | hehe. you're lucky you didn't crack your tailbone |
| 21:39.16 | JeffM2501 | we had many words |
| 21:39.32 | JeffM2501 | you'd have to get thru a lot of butt to get to my tailbone |
| 21:39.46 | SportyGal | I'm very cautious about back injuries nowadays |
| 21:39.58 | JeffM2501 | they can jack you up |
| 21:40.55 | SilentSwan | hmmm... i had a lifting-related back injury last year that put me out of commission for 2months |
| 21:41.11 | Ice_Wewe | can someone please tell me why I see no water? http://pastebin.ca/26538 |
| 21:41.11 | SportyGal | yup - mine's been plaguing me for close to 4 years now |
| 21:41.38 | SilentSwan | i've had back problems for a long time of one sort or another... it's the price one pays for being tall |
| 21:44.18 | JeffM2501 | how tall are you? |
| 21:44.33 | SilentSwan | about 5'10" |
| 21:44.40 | JeffM2501 | that's not that tall |
| 21:44.48 | JeffM2501 | above averate for a woman |
| 21:44.56 | SilentSwan | no, it's taller than avg |
| 21:45.15 | JeffM2501 | have you ever called a guy "little man" |
| 21:45.21 | SilentSwan | haha... no |
| 21:45.24 | SilentSwan | well... maybe |
| 21:45.29 | SilentSwan | but not because of height |
| 21:46.10 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 21:46.36 | Ice_Wewe | can someone please tell me why I see no water? http://pastebin.ca/26538 |
| 21:46.53 | SportyGal | I see water, Ice Wewe http://photos.surfline.com/displayimage.php?album=17&pos=-5445 |
| 21:47.17 | JeffM2501 | Ice_Wewe, becaus you are trying to fake water with a big mesh |
| 21:47.23 | JeffM2501 | and you should just use the water feature |
| 21:48.05 | JeffM2501 | your "water" mesh dosn't even have texture coordinates |
| 21:48.12 | JeffM2501 | so it won't show your water texture or texture matrix |
| 21:48.15 | JeffM2501 | oh it does |
| 21:48.17 | JeffM2501 | nevermind :) |
| 21:48.27 | JeffM2501 | it's normals your missing |
| 21:48.31 | Ice_Wewe | normals? |
| 21:48.35 | JeffM2501 | normals |
| 21:48.38 | Ice_Wewe | like size? |
| 21:48.40 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 21:48.47 | JeffM2501 | did you read the manual for bzw? |
| 21:49.01 | Ice_Wewe | I searched for water, and shift |
| 21:49.11 | Ice_Wewe | but I didn't read the whole thing, it is like 100 pages! |
| 21:49.29 | JeffM2501 | Ice_Wewe, then you will never learn |
| 21:49.30 | JeffM2501 | it is not that long |
| 21:49.33 | blast007 | tried doing a search? |
| 21:50.27 | Ice_Wewe | blast007: yes, for "water" which didn't really help and "shift" which I am currently looking at something that slipped my careful reading before (sniker all you want) |
| 21:50.43 | JeffM2501 | really? |
| 21:50.46 | Ice_Wewe | yes |
| 21:50.47 | blast007 | I mean for normals |
| 21:50.50 | JeffM2501 | cus the part where it says "material" |
| 21:50.52 | JeffM2501 | for water |
| 21:50.54 | JeffM2501 | is all you need |
| 21:50.57 | Ice_Wewe | yea? |
| 21:50.58 | Ice_Wewe | Doh! |
| 21:50.59 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 21:51.04 | JeffM2501 | you define a material |
| 21:51.08 | JeffM2501 | with your texture |
| 21:51.38 | Ice_Wewe | come again? |
| 21:51.40 | Ice_Wewe | you lost me |
| 21:51.50 | JeffM2501 | you define the material for the water to use |
| 21:51.50 | Ice_Wewe | change textureMatrix to material? |
| 21:51.56 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 21:51.58 | JeffM2501 | well yes |
| 21:52.03 | JeffM2501 | but you need the matrix too |
| 21:52.04 | Ice_Wewe | no, or yes? |
| 21:52.08 | JeffM2501 | you apply the matrix to the material |
| 21:52.13 | Ice_Wewe | o..k... |
| 21:52.14 | JeffM2501 | then the material to the water |
| 21:52.18 | Ice_Wewe | I'm sorta getting it |
| 21:52.23 | Ice_Wewe | I have the matrix |
| 21:52.26 | JeffM2501 | you'd get it more if you would read |
| 21:53.00 | JeffM2501 | maybe it needs to be a book on tape |
| 21:53.13 | SportyGal | hehe |
| 21:53.15 | SportyGal | or a podcast |
| 21:53.32 | JeffM2501 | a podcast would just be us shouting "READ!!!' |
| 21:53.33 | Ice_Wewe | that would work |
| 21:53.36 | Ice_Wewe | heh |
| 21:53.42 | SportyGal | JeffM2501: hehe |
| 21:54.00 | JeffM2501 | I say if you are too lazy to read the docs that were so kindly provided, you got no biz making a map |
| 21:54.40 | Ice_Wewe | ok, so JeffM2501: I've added some stuff to the map, see if its right now... |
| 21:55.06 | JeffM2501 | does it work? |
| 21:55.13 | Ice_Wewe | http://pastebin.ca/26540 |
| 21:55.15 | Ice_Wewe | dunno |
| 21:55.19 | Ice_Wewe | my bzfs complains |
| 21:55.23 | JeffM2501 | why don't you TRY it first |
| 21:55.26 | Ice_Wewe | warning (line 34): unknown object parameter "matref" - skipping |
| 21:55.28 | JeffM2501 | before you ask |
| 21:55.35 | JeffM2501 | then no it's not right |
| 21:56.00 | JeffM2501 | now your not like learning disabled are you? cus then I'd feel bad |
| 21:56.06 | Ice_Wewe | I still see no water... |
| 21:56.25 | JeffM2501 | good lord dude |
| 21:56.32 | Ice_Wewe | well, I think I might have BZlexia |
| 21:56.36 | JeffM2501 | did you not read what we said |
| 21:56.42 | JeffM2501 | you don't do it as a freaking mesh |
| 21:56.44 | Ice_Wewe | well I didn't really understand |
| 21:56.47 | Ice_Wewe | mesh? |
| 21:56.54 | JeffM2501 | # |
| 21:56.54 | JeffM2501 | define water |
| 21:56.54 | JeffM2501 | # |
| 21:56.54 | JeffM2501 | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:56.57 | JeffM2501 | mesh! |
| 21:57.00 | JeffM2501 | you made a mesh |
| 21:57.16 | Ice_Wewe | you said it needed to be a mesh |
| 21:57.17 | JeffM2501 | do you see the word MESH in there? |
| 21:57.23 | Ice_Wewe | no |
| 21:57.23 | JeffM2501 | no I said it did NOT need to be a mesh |
| 21:57.42 | Ice_Wewe | so what is it? |
| 21:57.45 | Ice_Wewe | if its not mesh |
| 21:57.49 | JeffM2501 | <JeffM2501> Ice_Wewe, becaus you are trying to fake water with a big mesh |
| 21:57.49 | JeffM2501 | <JeffM2501> and you should just use the water feature |
| 21:57.56 | JeffM2501 | it is a water level object |
| 21:58.02 | JeffM2501 | just like it says in the manual |
| 21:58.13 | JeffM2501 | The Water Level object |
| 21:58.14 | JeffM2501 | Sets how high the water is, in a matter of units. |
| 21:58.15 | Ice_Wewe | ohhhh, I read something about that in the man page? do you think it could be the same thing? |
| 21:58.34 | JeffM2501 | not a good time to joke |
| 21:58.36 | JeffM2501 | not at all |
| 21:58.40 | JeffM2501 | have fun figuring it out |
| 22:00.14 | Ice_Wewe | how do you disable flags in bzfs.conf? |
| 22:00.29 | JeffM2501 | bzfs.man |
| 22:00.57 | Ice_Wewe | waterLevel |
| 22:00.57 | Ice_Wewe | name waterlevel |
| 22:00.57 | Ice_Wewe | height 1.0 # anything below 0 turns it off |
| 22:00.57 | Ice_Wewe | shift 10 0 0 |
| 22:00.57 | Ice_Wewe | end |
| 22:01.05 | Ice_Wewe | warning (line 4): unknown object parameter "shift" - skipping |
| 22:01.18 | JeffM2501 | huh |
| 22:01.43 | Ice_Wewe | that is the map, waterLevel to end |
| 22:01.50 | Ice_Wewe | warning is the error I get when trying to run it |
| 22:01.56 | JeffM2501 | that makes sense |
| 22:02.02 | JeffM2501 | since your not doing it anywhere near right |
| 22:02.05 | Ice_Wewe | do I have to specify shift somewhere else? |
| 22:02.09 | Ice_Wewe | oh come on! |
| 22:02.13 | Ice_Wewe | this was in the man page! |
| 22:02.16 | Ice_Wewe | I took it right out! |
| 22:02.19 | JeffM2501 | NO IT WASN"T |
| 22:02.25 | JeffM2501 | do you see shift in the man page? |
| 22:02.29 | Ice_Wewe | no |
| 22:02.36 | Ice_Wewe | everything but shift |
| 22:02.36 | JeffM2501 | it's not smart to screw with the people you need help from |
| 22:02.44 | JeffM2501 | read the rest of the file |
| 22:02.54 | JeffM2501 | use your brain |
| 22:03.33 | *** join/#bzflag Erroneous (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu) |
| 22:03.57 | JeffM2501 | what were the 3 steps I told you to do? |
| 22:04.04 | Ice_Wewe | YAY! |
| 22:04.06 | Ice_Wewe | I got it working! |
| 22:04.10 | Erroneous | oooh, 2.1 |
| 22:04.14 | Ice_Wewe | the only problem is... the tank rusts |
| 22:04.21 | Ice_Wewe | so how can I make it so the tank doesn't rust? |
| 22:04.23 | JeffM2501 | that's what happens in water |
| 22:04.28 | Ice_Wewe | or is that harder? |
| 22:04.35 | JeffM2501 | read the man page |
| 22:04.36 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Erroneous] by ChanServ |
| 22:05.21 | JeffM2501 | if you don't want rust you don't want real water |
| 22:05.58 | JeffM2501 | rdp? |
| 22:06.11 | DTRemenak|RDP | remote desktop |
| 22:06.14 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 22:06.23 | JeffM2501 | where you at now? |
| 22:06.29 | DTRemenak|RDP | Aph9 lab |
| 22:06.35 | Ice_Wewe | cools |
| 22:06.44 | JeffM2501 | do they have pie? |
| 22:06.53 | DTRemenak|RDP | no, but they have chips |
| 22:06.54 | Ice_Wewe | JeffM2501: I fixed the rusting problem by making an invisible box above it, the tanks ride on that |
| 22:07.11 | Ice_Wewe | JeffM2501: thanks for all your help, and directing, I've learned something new! |
| 22:07.12 | JeffM2501 | Ice_Wewe, see, thinking isn't hard now is it? |
| 22:07.25 | JeffM2501 | we just have to beat it into you |
| 22:07.31 | Ice_Wewe | JeffM2501: yes, it is easy! but I really didn't know what I was doing... |
| 22:07.31 | JeffM2501 | please next time just put some more effort into it |
| 22:07.37 | Ice_Wewe | ok |
| 22:07.39 | I_Died_Once | WHat prog do I use to hear voice in here? |
| 22:07.46 | JeffM2501 | huh? |
| 22:07.54 | JeffM2501 | irc dosn't support voice chat |
| 22:08.02 | SportyGal | what program do I use to hack JeffM2501's computer? :) |
| 22:08.13 | JeffM2501 | windows XP |
| 22:09.13 | SportyGal | hehe |
| 22:10.31 | SilentSwan | XP is effectively already hacked |
| 22:12.56 | DTRemenak|RDP | hm, wonder if I can run bz over this :) |
| 22:13.03 | I_Died_Once | I keep seeing the server give voice to so and so |
| 22:13.34 | I_Died_Once | " * ChanServ gives voice to Erroneous " |
| 22:13.42 | SilentSwan | you've not been on IRC long, have you? :) |
| 22:13.49 | I_Died_Once | no |
| 22:14.09 | I_Died_Once | I'm just going by what I see |
| 22:14.21 | SilentSwan | voice allows users to talk in a moderated channel |
| 22:14.30 | SilentSwan | it's useful when idiots join a channel |
| 22:14.49 | I_Died_Once | ah |
| 22:14.57 | I_Died_Once | thats probably what they use to ignore me |
| 22:15.02 | SilentSwan | haha |
| 22:15.12 | DTRemenak|RDP | in this channel voice just bumps our nicks to the top of the list. Tupone wanted some way to identify people who knew what they were talking about or something |
| 22:15.14 | I_Died_Once | or make fun of people |
| 22:15.14 | SilentSwan | no, you'd get something like "Cannot send to channel" if that were true |
| 22:15.15 | Ice_Wewe | thats probably what they still ignore me |
| 22:20.21 | JeffM2501 | it says 'the irc gods have stolen your voice" |
| 22:21.04 | JeffM2501 | some some such sillyness |
| 22:21.15 | JeffM2501 | ignore is so much easyer |
| 22:21.44 | JeffM2501 | as is +q |
| 22:23.15 | SilentSwan | ./ignore JeffM2501 |
| 22:23.18 | SilentSwan | oopsies :) |
| 22:23.37 | SilentSwan | nuh uh |
| 22:23.38 | *** join/#bzflag mmu (i=revol@ALyon-253-1-65-202.w86-197.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 22:23.38 | SilentSwan | never |
| 22:27.14 | JeffM2501 | it's ok, I'm used to it |
| 22:28.24 | DTRemenak|RDP | probably never have while you were sober though |
| 22:28.38 | JeffM2501 | you'd be suprised |
| 22:28.59 | JeffM2501 | reembmer techicaly I am evil |
| 22:29.05 | JeffM2501 | and reek of windows |
| 22:29.23 | SilentSwan | knew i smelled something |
| 22:29.32 | SilentSwan | *sniff* smells like XP |
| 22:29.40 | JeffM2501 | smells like work |
| 22:29.54 | JeffM2501 | see |
| 22:29.56 | JeffM2501 | evil |
| 22:30.08 | Tupone | how you change protection to cvs file ? learner? DTRemenak? |
| 22:30.19 | DTRemenak|RDP | protection? |
| 22:30.35 | Tupone | seem command.cxx is x :/ |
| 22:30.59 | Tupone | -rwxr-xr-x 1 Tupone Tupone 89106 25 ott 00:29 commands.cxx |
| 22:31.11 | JeffM2501 | Tupone, will you be on later this evening? and woudl you mind if I buged you about linux audio? |
| 22:31.31 | Tupone | later? :) I'm going to sleep soon |
| 22:31.39 | JeffM2501 | ok |
| 22:31.42 | JeffM2501 | then another day perhaps |
| 22:31.51 | DTRemenak|RDP | how long do you sleep? |
| 22:32.03 | Tupone | 8 hours, more or less |
| 22:32.04 | DTRemenak|RDP | later for Jeff might be tomorrow morning for you :) |
| 22:32.10 | JeffM2501 | I got linux set on my main machine but I have problems geting all the aps to use the correct sound outputs |
| 22:32.11 | Tupone | ahh :) |
| 22:32.20 | JeffM2501 | it may be |
| 22:32.21 | Tupone | JeffM2501: what distro? |
| 22:32.27 | JeffM2501 | ubuntu |
| 22:32.52 | JeffM2501 | onboard audio has both analog outputs and a digital SPDIF out |
| 22:33.01 | JeffM2501 | it's using analog now, I need it to use the digital |
| 22:33.33 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak|RDP, I did fix the sli problem too, with out disabling SLI :) |
| 22:33.38 | DTRemenak|RDP | cool |
| 22:33.54 | JeffM2501 | told x config to use PCIE channel 5 not not 4 |
| 22:33.57 | JeffM2501 | and it's all good |
| 22:34.14 | JeffM2501 | building bz with -j3 makes it hual ass too |
| 22:34.29 | DTRemenak|RDP | yeah, -j is wonderful |
| 22:35.05 | DTRemenak|RDP | -j3 easily halves build times on that server |
| 22:35.16 | JeffM2501 | same for me |
| 22:35.25 | JeffM2501 | did the other CPUs work? |
| 22:35.55 | DTRemenak|RDP | haven't put them in yet, actually. needs a bios update and was giving me grief |
| 22:36.09 | JeffM2501 | tho I did notice something odd, as I play, the process swaps from core to core, and hitches, wonder how I can tell it to stay on one core |
| 22:36.46 | DTRemenak|RDP | you should be able to set processor affinities somewhere |
| 22:36.50 | DTRemenak|RDP | don't remember how |
| 22:36.56 | JeffM2501 | th4e CPU usage graph does this double helix thing |
| 22:37.12 | JeffM2501 | i'll have to read up on it |
| 22:37.29 | JeffM2501 | I have to set an afinity in windows on some games too, but it's just a right click |
| 22:37.48 | DTRemenak|RDP | yeah |
| 22:38.29 | JeffM2501 | but at least it sees all my hardware, that's what's important |
| 22:38.37 | DTRemenak|RDP | heh :) |
| 22:38.55 | JeffM2501 | and grub is working with the windows partitions on the sata drives |
| 22:39.30 | DTRemenak|RDP | cool |
| 23:10.23 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/src/game/BzMaterial.cxx: warning |
| 23:21.30 | DTRemenak|RDP | hahaha |
| 23:23.28 | JeffM2501 | be hella fun when people ask what to use to edit maps. |
| 23:24.18 | devster | cpu usage graphs in linux JeffM2501 ? |
| 23:24.29 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 23:26.01 | devster | where ? :) |
| 23:26.26 | JeffM2501 | umm in the system monitor thingy |
| 23:26.41 | devster | kde one? |
| 23:26.46 | JeffM2501 | mabe |
| 23:29.55 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03trepan * 10bzflag/ (3 files in 3 dirs): less hackish |
| 23:31.09 | JeffM2501 | hmm edifice seems like a cool word |
| 23:31.53 | trepan | ~dict edifice |
| 23:32.20 | JeffM2501 | ~dict deanery |
| 23:32.33 | trepan | gcide came up with "an architectural fabric" for edifice, was hoping to see that |
| 23:33.42 | JeffM2501 | what do you think trepan is the future in meshes and geting bz specific features into real editors? or object placement and editing of bzspecific stuff with meshes from external editors? |
| 23:34.03 | trepan | tabula rasa =) |
| 23:34.25 | JeffM2501 | if you had your druthers what woudl you do for a format? |
| 23:34.41 | JeffM2501 | keep objects? or move to something like a universal surface descriptor? |
| 23:34.47 | JeffM2501 | with just lots of smart grouping |
| 23:35.25 | Thumper_ | Grumbler: um privs all set up (using requireidentify on verified group) |
| 23:35.57 | trepan | how would you differentiate objects and USD? wanting to throw in splines? |
| 23:36.23 | JeffM2501 | well look at quake |
| 23:36.28 | JeffM2501 | it dosn't realy have the concept of an object |
| 23:36.47 | JeffM2501 | it has a lot of surfaces |
| 23:36.51 | JeffM2501 | and connection data |
| 23:36.59 | JeffM2501 | that lets it do pvs and stuff |
| 23:37.10 | JeffM2501 | then a list of the "other" stuff in the map |
| 23:38.19 | trepan | the characters could be considered "objects" |
| 23:38.19 | JeffM2501 | stuff that isnt' woorld geo |
| 23:38.19 | JeffM2501 | those are handled seperately |
| 23:38.19 | JeffM2501 | they move thru the empty spaces in the world |
| 23:38.20 | JeffM2501 | they call them "elements" |
| 23:38.20 | JeffM2501 | players, pickups, stuff like that |
| 23:38.20 | JeffM2501 | they get merged into the bsp |
| 23:38.20 | JeffM2501 | at run time |
| 23:38.30 | JeffM2501 | I dono |
| 23:38.35 | JeffM2501 | I'm asking how you'd do it :) |
| 23:38.47 | JeffM2501 | if legacy maps were not an issue |
| 23:39.01 | trepan | they don't rebuild a full bsp for one 'element's planes |
| 23:39.09 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 23:39.25 | JeffM2501 | the element is just hucked in as a point |
| 23:39.29 | JeffM2501 | it works |
| 23:39.36 | JeffM2501 | I was just using it as an example |
| 23:39.42 | trepan | a real hierarchy would be the first step, DAG style |
| 23:39.48 | JeffM2501 | where all the world geo is in somewhat of a common storage |
| 23:39.54 | JeffM2501 | dag? |
| 23:39.56 | trepan | octree/portals/bsps could be sub-nodes |
| 23:40.04 | trepan | directed acyclic graph |
| 23:40.11 | JeffM2501 | never heard the term |
| 23:40.43 | trepan | often used to describe scene graphs... |
| 23:40.50 | JeffM2501 | so you'd keep it as a tree of objects that is in the view, just making it so the tree can contain more usefull objects |
| 23:41.05 | JeffM2501 | and so the tree is more walkabke |
| 23:41.41 | *** join/#bzflag orchid_ (n=bzgirl@unaffiliated/orchid) |
| 23:41.41 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v orchid_] by ChanServ |
| 23:42.41 | JeffM2501 | what if you wanted to do a terain system? |
| 23:42.53 | trepan | just another sub-node |
| 23:42.57 | JeffM2501 | and both indoor and outdoor stuff |
| 23:43.15 | JeffM2501 | yeah big tree, with terrain nodes, portal nodes to inside stuff |
| 23:43.22 | *** join/#bzflag triclops (n=triclops@203-158-46-13.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 23:43.22 | JeffM2501 | would be very flexable |
| 23:43.44 | trepan | again, sub-nodes, that's the beauty of a proper hierarchical scenegraph |
| 23:43.44 | uso | cosmos: ping |
| 23:43.50 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 23:44.01 | JeffM2501 | you could put what ever you wanted into the sub nodes |
| 23:44.02 | uso | teamkiller at hepcat, grg970 |
| 23:44.07 | JeffM2501 | how would you store it? |
| 23:44.27 | JeffM2501 | on disk I mean |
| 23:44.31 | trepan | map format? |
| 23:44.39 | JeffM2501 | I guess |
| 23:44.47 | JeffM2501 | binary/text? |
| 23:44.54 | trepan | bit of both? ;) |
| 23:44.55 | JeffM2501 | XML or something else? |
| 23:44.55 | uso | cosmos: ok, gone |
| 23:45.09 | trepan | binary for runtime loading |
| 23:45.23 | trepan | ex: octrees, bsps would be pregen'ed |
| 23:45.35 | JeffM2501 | I think at some point the worlds would be too complex to edit by hand in a text file |
| 23:45.36 | trepan | s/would/could |
| 23:45.42 | JeffM2501 | so like a compile pass |
| 23:45.51 | JeffM2501 | that computed vis stuff, maybe did lightmaps |
| 23:47.18 | trepan | iirc, ogre and osg both have scene editors |
| 23:47.32 | JeffM2501 | they do |
| 23:47.42 | JeffM2501 | so you'd want to go for just an existing system |
| 23:47.49 | JeffM2501 | for ease of use? |
| 23:48.06 | trepan | check the power? |
| 23:48.12 | orchid | the cable |
| 23:48.56 | JeffM2501 | finish it up man :) |
| 23:50.12 | *** join/#bzflag SC (n=SportChi@ca-redbch-cuda1-c3b-a-40.stmnca.adelphia.net) |
| 23:50.13 | trepan | look at the clientele |
| 23:50.19 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 23:51.35 | JeffM2501 | 267 view |
| 23:51.39 | JeffM2501 | that is just stupid |
| 23:57.28 | trepan | to note: some bz worlds are already way too complicated to be edited by hand |
| 23:58.56 | JeffM2501 | that they are |
