| 00:00.17 | JeffM2501 | what are you thinking? just giving the changes to loman? |
| 00:00.54 | JeffM2501 | and techincaly a fork dosn't have to wait for anyone, it's a new project in itself |
| 00:04.11 | *** join/#bzflag bz2582 (~44d8bb16@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 00:04.40 | bz2582 | how do u make buildings clear |
| 00:04.44 | bz2582 | or see through |
| 00:04.47 | JeffM2501 | even if I did want to do a new gfx engine, tupone would not like it |
| 00:04.51 | JeffM2501 | bz2582, you don't |
| 00:05.14 | bz2582 | i been on servers where they are |
| 00:05.14 | JeffM2501 | you can apply material properties to a meshbox |
| 00:05.21 | bz2582 | how |
| 00:05.24 | JeffM2501 | in your map |
| 00:05.28 | JeffM2501 | use a meshbox and a material |
| 00:05.31 | JeffM2501 | read the bzw man page |
| 00:05.50 | bz2582 | where is the bzw man page |
| 00:06.07 | JeffM2501 | http://my.bzflag.org/bzfman.cgi?bzw.5s |
| 00:07.30 | trepan | JeffM2501: why wouldn't Tupone like it? |
| 00:07.37 | bz2582 | is there a way to make meteors |
| 00:07.40 | JeffM2501 | because he dosnt' like anything I do |
| 00:07.46 | JeffM2501 | bz2582, draw them |
| 00:08.11 | JeffM2501 | trepan, he fears anything he does not understand off the bat, he dosn't want to "not get it" |
| 00:08.23 | *** join/#bzflag wegstar (~foo@wegstar.user.allegro) |
| 00:09.24 | trepan | ~bzw |
| 00:09.24 | ibot | it has been said that bzw is http://my.bzflag.org/bzfman.cgi?bzw.5s |
| 00:09.54 | JeffM2501 | tho if it was a fork, then it wouldn't mater what tupone thought :) |
| 00:10.47 | wegstar | how do you compile stuff in Visual C++ 2005 Express Edition? |
| 00:10.59 | JeffM2501 | you make a project |
| 00:11.02 | JeffM2501 | add the files |
| 00:11.05 | JeffM2501 | then say build solution |
| 00:11.09 | wegstar | o |
| 00:11.12 | JeffM2501 | what do you want to build? |
| 00:11.29 | wegstar | jsut a test program.. |
| 00:11.33 | JeffM2501 | all the plugins come with vc projects |
| 00:11.40 | JeffM2501 | just open the .sln file |
| 00:11.41 | wegstar | I know |
| 00:16.38 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (~timr@TimRiker.bronze.supporter.pdpc) |
| 00:16.38 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 00:17.59 | wegstar | hmm.. build solution? where's the executable? |
| 00:18.34 | JeffM2501 | did you build it? |
| 00:19.02 | wegstar | yeah |
| 00:19.09 | wegstar | ========== Build: 0 succeeded, 0 failed, 1 up-to-date, 0 skipped ========== |
| 00:19.16 | wegstar | ? |
| 00:19.21 | JeffM2501 | then there will be ether a debug or release folder |
| 00:19.27 | JeffM2501 | that will have your exe or dll in it |
| 00:19.39 | JeffM25O1 | unless I'm an idiot. |
| 00:19.42 | JeffM2501 | JeffM25O1, good one, nver thought of that |
| 00:19.46 | wegstar | :D |
| 00:19.49 | JeffM2501 | :) |
| 00:19.49 | JeffM25O1 | =) |
| 00:19.56 | JeffM2501 | ohh I am an idiot |
| 00:20.05 | JeffM2501 | the rest of the world just dosn't belive me |
| 00:20.14 | JeffM2501 | if you ONLY knew |
| 00:20.20 | JeffM25O1 | =) |
| 00:21.25 | JeffM2501 | noone got added |
| 00:21.39 | wegstar | nope |
| 00:21.59 | JeffM2501 | wegstar, is this an existing plugin? |
| 00:22.08 | wegstar | um... |
| 00:22.15 | JeffM2501 | or what are you building? |
| 00:22.22 | wegstar | a hello world thing |
| 00:22.27 | JeffM2501 | ohhhh |
| 00:22.37 | JeffM2501 | what type of project did you tell it to make? |
| 00:22.55 | TimRiker | hmm. I thought ChanServ would deop folks, but it looks like it does not. ah well. not a biggie. |
| 00:23.02 | wegstar | empty project |
| 00:23.09 | JeffM2501 | wegstar, that is your problem |
| 00:23.15 | wegstar | o |
| 00:23.16 | JeffM2501 | tell it you want a new windows command line app |
| 00:23.26 | JeffM2501 | blank projects don't know what they are building |
| 00:23.43 | JeffM2501 | VC can build more then one type of thing |
| 00:24.08 | wegstar | ok |
| 00:24.31 | JeffM2501 | the project type tells vc if it's building a windows app, a command line app, a library, a DLL, or a .net component |
| 00:24.40 | foo-on-fire | hey, JeffM2501, did you get my (a monkey's) pm? |
| 00:25.00 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 00:25.06 | JeffM2501 | when did you send it? |
| 00:25.09 | foo-on-fire | oh |
| 00:25.11 | foo-on-fire | that's odd |
| 00:25.12 | foo-on-fire | well |
| 00:25.23 | foo-on-fire | july 24th |
| 00:26.03 | JeffM2501 | dude |
| 00:26.10 | JeffM2501 | the banner, whopty do |
| 00:26.17 | JeffM2501 | it's not like it's alive |
| 00:26.31 | CBG | Is jeff on his period... Modd swings like I have never seen! |
| 00:26.38 | CBG | *mood :/ |
| 00:26.58 | JeffM2501 | CBG, you have been here for such a short time comparably, you haven't seen much |
| 00:27.03 | foo-on-fire | lo |
| 00:27.06 | foo-on-fire | lol* |
| 00:27.22 | CBG | That sounds Baaad! |
| 00:27.46 | Erroneous | heh |
| 00:27.52 | CBG | ~seen ToughShooter |
| 00:27.53 | ibot | toughshooter <~ts@p54B01B61.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 3h 1m 15s ago, saying: 'Hmpf, window switching keeps crashing for me but now it isn't in SDL: http://pastebin.com/327891'. |
| 00:28.06 | JeffM2501 | I was adding code to this thing when you were 9 |
| 00:28.20 | CBG | Yeah............... |
| 00:28.49 | CBG | Well, I was in nappies when you were 10 times my age. |
| 00:28.57 | CBG | sorry. Diapers. |
| 00:29.17 | JeffM2501 | huh? |
| 00:29.37 | JeffM2501 | I'm just saying that you make these statemenst like you've seen the expance of my range |
| 00:29.41 | JeffM2501 | when you have been here a blip |
| 00:29.51 | CBG | I know that... :) |
| 00:30.11 | CBG | But today... you are having mood swings that I'm not sure I believe. ;) |
| 00:30.41 | JeffM2501 | fine |
| 00:30.51 | JeffM2501 | you continue to disbelive and expect people to stay the same |
| 00:31.04 | CBG | I dont expect you to stay the same.... |
| 00:31.28 | CBG | I just made an observation.... |
| 00:31.32 | CBG | ~seen cosmos |
| 00:31.32 | ibot | cosmos <~cosmos@valentino.hepcat.org> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 61d 23h 2m 43s ago, saying: 'or too many script kiddies on your block packeting away'. |
| 00:31.37 | JeffM2501 | you disbelve |
| 00:31.40 | JeffM2501 | he is gone |
| 00:31.48 | CBG | :( |
| 00:32.09 | CBG | Its those damned teenagers that made him close hepcat! :( |
| 00:32.26 | JeffM2501 | it was everyone |
| 00:32.43 | CBG | Not just the troublemakers? |
| 00:32.58 | CBG | Those who treatened, abused, etc? |
| 00:33.03 | foo-on-fire | i was mad when the idiots made cosmos stop hosting hepcat. |
| 00:33.11 | foo-on-fire | that was an awesome server |
| 00:33.19 | foo-on-fire | but then again, there are hepcat clones |
| 00:33.31 | CBG | And soon: SilverCat. ;) |
| 00:34.52 | foo-on-fire | heh |
| 00:35.04 | wegstar | :( |
| 00:35.16 | wegstar | ~seen MeBigFatGuy |
| 00:35.16 | ibot | mebigfatguy <dave@balt-209-150-117-10.dynamic-dial.qis.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 59d 19h 29m 27s ago, saying: 'heh'. |
| 00:35.22 | JeffM2501 | it was the ungratefull comunity in general |
| 00:35.31 | Erroneous | servers come and go. it happens. |
| 00:35.34 | JeffM2501 | and the fact that they don't really do anything to poleice them selves |
| 00:35.39 | JeffM2501 | that they do |
| 00:36.46 | ASleepyCow | sleepycows may be gone soon too :( |
| 00:37.31 | wegstar | hmm |
| 00:37.39 | Erroneous | http://www.qis.net/~dbrosius/BZFlag/BZServers.html has a list of what the most popular were in 1.7g2 days |
| 00:38.07 | Erroneous | there are only four that are still running today |
| 00:38.12 | ASleepyCow | it does not bode well when one cannot contact the server provider for over a month |
| 00:38.42 | JeffM2501 | heh "use udp" |
| 00:38.46 | JeffM2501 | man that is back in the day |
| 00:38.49 | Erroneous | yup |
| 00:38.50 | blast007 | :) |
| 00:38.53 | trepan | Erroneous: hehe, imajica is on that list, i doubt it's accuate is to popularity |
| 00:38.54 | blast007 | "knightmare.servegame.com" |
| 00:39.01 | wegstar | hehe |
| 00:39.27 | Erroneous | trepan: he may have just grabbed the whole list on some random day |
| 00:39.34 | Erroneous | I don't know how he picked them |
| 00:40.15 | JeffM2501 | ahh the ill fated "bz cops" |
| 00:40.30 | Erroneous | hehe |
| 00:41.52 | Erroneous | much |
| 00:42.23 | wegstar | ;) |
| 00:45.13 | JeffM2501 | they would cry themslevs to drink |
| 00:45.40 | JeffM2501 | they could save it if they'd each give 2$ |
| 00:46.04 | trepan | some of the recent changes make pay-to-play feasible |
| 00:46.17 | JeffM2501 | that it is |
| 00:46.21 | JeffM2501 | very very feasable |
| 00:47.23 | Erroneous | heh |
| 00:49.00 | trepan | it'll prolly get moved into someone's largest email folder |
| 00:49.12 | ASleepyCow | ya |
| 00:49.46 | ASleepyCow | their phone system suckx |
| 00:50.36 | ASleepyCow | you are placed on hold....er....ignore, then disconnected after listening to ESPN radio for 2 hours |
| 00:51.10 | *** join/#bzflag SportChick (~SportChic@ca-redbch-cuda1-c3b-a-40.stmnca.adelphia.net) |
| 00:52.07 | ASleepyCow | hi Sporty |
| 00:54.02 | SportChick | ASleepyCow: hiya |
| 00:58.13 | SportChick | uhoh |
| 00:58.25 | SportChick | ~bzflist |
| 00:58.40 | SportChick | ~more |
| 00:58.40 | ibot | i guess more is Displays the contents of the named files, one screenful at a time. Syntax: more (file1) (file2) ...(fileN). Where file1 through fileN are the files to display. Example: more papers/history-final displays the file papers/history-final. |
| 00:58.42 | AnAngryCow | i cant get through to colomart about the server |
| 00:58.52 | SportChick | still? |
| 00:58.53 | SportChick | wow |
| 00:59.25 | wegstar | wait... Microsoft Platform SDK is free? |
| 00:59.29 | AnAngryCow | a couple of emil contacts and that was 1.5 weeks ago |
| 00:59.37 | blast007 | wegstar: yup |
| 00:59.52 | wegstar | Microsoft? free?... IT does not compute :/ |
| 01:00.19 | AnAngryCow | resistance is futile. you will learn to service M$ |
| 01:02.10 | wegstar | noooo!!! |
| 01:02.19 | JeffM2501 | wegstar, yeah why not? |
| 01:02.43 | wegstar | :( |
| 01:03.51 | JeffM2501 | why would MS not want to get as many people using there tools as posible? |
| 01:03.58 | JeffM2501 | so that new software devs know there stuff? |
| 01:04.34 | wegstar | hmm... |
| 01:05.04 | JeffM2501 | MS is not stupid when it comes to biz |
| 01:05.13 | JeffM2501 | they didn't get where they are by luck |
| 01:11.58 | *** join/#bzflag christof83 (~christof8@pcp0010060938pcs.tharpe01.fl.comcast.net) |
| 01:13.47 | christof83 | I'm having a problem with configure script in the latest CVS using OSX. when i run configure from the 'work' directory, it says it cant run config.sub |
| 01:23.09 | *** join/#bzflag wizart (~wizart@dsl-084-058-128-213.arcor-ip.net) |
| 01:26.12 | *** join/#bzflag foo-on-fire (~elmunky@user-0can33s.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 01:28.26 | christof83 | there is no configure.sub in this cvs version apparently |
| 01:46.46 | christof83 | why are none of the download links for the stable 2.0.2 version working on the website? |
| 01:50.16 | wegstar | yay! got VC++ express working |
| 01:50.27 | wegstar | now on to the plugins :) |
| 01:58.26 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~jeffm@JeffM2501.sustaining.supporter.pdpc) |
| 01:58.26 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 02:05.59 | christof83 | Jeff, do you know why the latest cvs version doesnt compile on OSX? |
| 02:06.24 | christof83 | I get this error : MacDisplay.cxx:231: error: expected % |
| 02:06.24 | christof83 | ore "const" |
| 02:10.00 | trepan | you might have more success with an SDL build |
| 02:10.37 | christof83 | what do you mean by that? |
| 02:12.37 | trepan | hm, or does it need it regardless... strange setup |
| 02:16.26 | *** join/#bzflag ep (~ep@ip68-97-122-98.ok.ok.cox.net) |
| 02:17.55 | *** join/#bzflag CatScan29 (~1809ae5b@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 02:19.41 | *** join/#bzflag CatScan29 (~1809ae5b@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 02:20.10 | *** join/#bzflag CatScan29 (~1809ae5b@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 02:22.36 | christof83 | Can anyone get bzflag to compile with the current CVS on OSX? |
| 02:25.00 | christof83 | even the stable version 2.0.2 doesnt work |
| 02:28.39 | *** join/#bzflag blast007` (~blast007@24-196-92-143.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) |
| 02:36.00 | JeffM2501 | it works for me |
| 02:36.19 | JeffM2501 | run a autogen, config, then a make |
| 02:36.20 | JeffM2501 | and I'm good |
| 02:36.21 | *** join/#bzflag foo-on-fire (~elmunky@user-0can33s.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 02:37.44 | trepan | is there a reason SDLPlatformFactory.cxx isn't used for Mac SDL builds? |
| 02:38.14 | *** join/#bzflag orchid (~bzgirl@orchid.user) |
| 02:38.14 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v orchid] by ChanServ |
| 02:39.00 | christof83 | Hmm, i get a compile error. MacDisplay.cxx:231: error: expected % ore "const" |
| 02:39.18 | JeffM2501 | did you do the full autogen and configure? |
| 02:39.22 | christof83 | yeah |
| 02:39.24 | JeffM2501 | and do you have SDL? |
| 02:39.36 | christof83 | ive gotten it to compile fine with previous cvs versions |
| 02:39.45 | christof83 | yeah, and it sees it in the configure script |
| 02:40.04 | christof83 | i did have to get the config.sub and config.guess from an older cvs version |
| 02:40.05 | JeffM2501 | what is on that line? |
| 02:40.09 | christof83 | they werent in this one |
| 02:40.11 | JeffM2501 | and what OS version? |
| 02:40.18 | christof83 | 10.4.2 |
| 02:40.52 | JeffM2501 | I just built fine |
| 02:42.15 | wegstar | This is too good to be true.. is there some limit to this VC++ express? |
| 02:43.10 | JeffM2501 | how old is your cvs |
| 02:43.17 | christof83 | today |
| 02:43.22 | JeffM2501 | how old? |
| 02:43.24 | JeffM2501 | I just updated |
| 02:43.28 | christof83 | oh, about an hour |
| 02:43.48 | JeffM2501 | wegstar, not really, it dosnt' ahve some of the same remote debuging and stuff |
| 02:43.51 | JeffM2501 | and all the tools |
| 02:44.16 | JeffM2501 | christof83, what is the line it dies on? |
| 02:45.32 | JeffM2501 | trepan, I don't know thats all tupone and brlcad |
| 02:46.40 | trepan | looks like the MacOSX subdir could be skipped entirely for SDL builds |
| 02:47.02 | JeffM2501 | I am building with SDL I know that |
| 02:47.08 | JeffM2501 | maybe they put the native code in |
| 02:47.13 | JeffM2501 | my builds are working fine |
| 02:48.25 | trepan | checkout MacPlatformFactory.cxx vs. SDLPlatformFactory.cxx, looks like the Mac one is the same as the SDL with #define's |
| 02:48.46 | JeffM2501 | so they just moved it over then |
| 02:48.49 | JeffM2501 | they did the same for windows |
| 02:48.55 | JeffM2501 | that was the tupone I think |
| 02:49.00 | trepan | moved it over? |
| 02:49.06 | JeffM2501 | duped code |
| 02:49.15 | trepan | it's compiling code it doesn't need, fromwhat I can see |
| 02:49.24 | JeffM2501 | that woudl not suprise me |
| 02:50.01 | christof83 | Â the line it was screwing up on says : void MacDisplay::getKey (BzfKeyEvent &bzf_key, char char_code, ::UInt32 keycode) const { |
| 02:50.16 | trepan | in the Makefile.am, you could add SDLPlatformFactory.cxx into the SDL block, and the SUBDIRS line into the non-SDL block |
| 02:50.44 | JeffM2501 | 231 is a method decleration |
| 02:52.08 | JeffM2501 | it shoudl be fine |
| 02:52.28 | JeffM2501 | christof83, see if you can do a clean build, you probably just have an old obj in there or something |
| 02:52.58 | bryjen | wow. peoples |
| 02:53.31 | christof83 | crap, sourceforge isnt letting me get the cvs |
| 02:53.51 | JeffM2501 | I mean to a clean all in your dir |
| 02:53.54 | JeffM2501 | not get new source |
| 02:54.04 | bryjen | either the T1 topped out around 14 players, or someone at work was getting some large spams ;) |
| 02:54.13 | christof83 | yeah, well i deleted it when it didnt work and got the stable version ( i'm impatient) |
| 02:54.42 | *** join/#bzflag sc-phone (~sc@117.sub-70-209-26.myvzw.com) |
| 02:54.54 | JeffM2501 | stable |
| 02:54.56 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 02:55.07 | christof83 | the stable version didnt compile either |
| 02:55.22 | christof83 | that was down for a while too |
| 02:58.29 | *** join/#bzflag absurdhero (~absurd@c-67-172-162-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 02:58.39 | absurdhero | hello |
| 02:59.03 | absurdhero | does anyone know where I can find the paper on proposed cheat detection/prevention methods? |
| 02:59.06 | sc-phone | hi |
| 02:59.23 | absurdhero | I recall reading it somewhere on the site but I don't know where it is now |
| 02:59.31 | trepan | JeffM2501: yup, see what you mean about WinPlatformFactory.cxx, but at least that one does a little differentiation based on BZDB vars ;) |
| 02:59.35 | christof83 | absurdhero: ACM's website |
| 02:59.50 | AnAngryCow | hi sc-phone |
| 03:00.05 | sc-phone | hi cow |
| 03:00.21 | absurdhero | ACM?? |
| 03:00.31 | absurdhero | ok ill check there |
| 03:00.32 | JeffM2501 | trepan, I don't like how he did it |
| 03:00.34 | absurdhero | is it free? |
| 03:01.06 | JeffM2501 | websites are never free |
| 03:01.15 | JeffM2501 | they cost hundreds of $$'s a year |
| 03:01.25 | christof83 | absurdhero: um, not really. Most universities have an account with them |
| 03:02.00 | absurdhero | ya mine doesn't |
| 03:02.19 | absurdhero | although we do have an ACM club, so we ought to. hmmm |
| 03:02.40 | christof83 | JeffM2501: How about this, with the new CVS there is no configure.sub or configure.guess . |
| 03:03.03 | christof83 | I'm using old versions of those files in place. could that be the reason im getting errors? |
| 03:03.13 | JeffM2501 | christof83, use the xcode proijec |
| 03:03.56 | JeffM2501 | it'll call the stuff it needs |
| 03:06.16 | JeffM2501 | christof83, probably |
| 03:06.19 | JeffM2501 | just use clean code |
| 03:06.22 | JeffM2501 | and the xcode |
| 03:06.26 | JeffM2501 | it should all just work |
| 03:06.31 | JeffM2501 | I didn't have to hack anything up |
| 03:06.43 | JeffM2501 | the code will call the right stuff |
| 03:09.04 | christof83 | Its compiling using make right now. It seems like its gotten farther this time than before without errors |
| 03:12.18 | christof83 | JeffM2501: Nevermind, it got the same error again at MacDisplay.css:231: error: expected %<,%> or %<;%> before const |
| 03:12.27 | christof83 | I'll try the xcode now |
| 03:17.12 | christof83 | Jeff: Are you sure with the Xcode that you dont have to change anything? Because in the run script for the BZFlag target, autogen.sh and configure are commented out. Even after uncommenting them, i get cd /Users/Floyd/Research/bzflag-current/bzflag |
| 03:17.12 | christof83 | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:17.12 | christof83 | pbxcp: Info.plist: No such file or directory |
| 03:17.13 | christof83 | pbxcp: Info.plist: No such file or directory |
| 03:17.42 | christof83 | crap, sorry about all that |
| 03:17.52 | JeffM2501 | that is for the installer |
| 03:17.56 | JeffM2501 | it should have built the binarys |
| 03:20.53 | christof83 | What do you do to build using Xcode, I must be missing something because i have all my Frameworks, but when i click Build, it doesnt work |
| 03:21.18 | christof83 | Bzflag-Info.plist is red |
| 03:24.26 | christof83 | so is bzadmin, bzflag and bzfs |
| 03:30.36 | JeffM2501 | the plist is only for the bundle |
| 03:31.23 | christof83 | Oh ok. Well how do i get xcode to do something without it? |
| 03:32.54 | christof83 | Sorry to be so bothersome btw. |
| 03:33.15 | *** join/#bzflag sc-phone (~sc@117.sub-70-209-26.myvzw.com) |
| 03:34.57 | *** part/#bzflag bryjen (bryjen@69-166-134-174.clvdoh.adelphia.net) |
| 03:52.01 | sc-phone | the silence is deafening |
| 03:58.58 | wegstar | ;) |
| 04:04.59 | sc-phone | hi wegstar |
| 04:05.48 | wegstar | hi sc-phone |
| 04:07.26 | wegstar | gym? |
| 04:07.40 | sc-phone | yes |
| 04:07.50 | wegstar | hmm... palmirc |
| 04:07.53 | AnAngryCow | hi sc-phone |
| 04:08.04 | sc-phone | yep |
| 04:08.12 | wegstar | cool |
| 04:08.19 | sc-phone | hi cow - still angry? |
| 04:08.28 | AnAngryCow | yep |
| 04:08.33 | AnAngryCow | ;) |
| 04:08.35 | sc-phone | :( |
| 04:08.44 | AnAngryCow | at colomart |
| 04:09.38 | sc-phone | I know...but i'm STILL trying to think of a way to cheer u up |
| 04:09.54 | Crazy_Cora | its gona be hard today |
| 04:10.04 | Crazy_Cora | i'll pm you later |
| 04:10.06 | sc-phone | hehe - I just walked into a post telling u that |
| 04:10.47 | sc-phone | home now cya soon |
| 04:14.28 | *** join/#bzflag absurdhero (~absurd@c-67-172-162-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 04:14.36 | SportChick | hi |
| 04:14.44 | Crazy_Cora | hi |
| 04:44.56 | *** join/#bzflag Twingy (~justin@lgb-cust-66.18.154.210.mpowercom.net) |
| 04:50.19 | Grumbler | its nice to see SportChick relaxed for once |
| 04:50.32 | SportChick | hrmph |
| 04:51.14 | Erroneous | hehe |
| 04:51.47 | Twingy | sports are over-rated |
| 04:53.42 | *** join/#bzflag foo-on-fire (~elmunky@user-0can33s.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 04:55.46 | purple_cow | Twingy: oh, when the food comes, care to bring your camera + cable? |
| 04:57.20 | SportChick | sports are underrated |
| 04:58.03 | BenUrban | take that with a grain of salt |
| 04:58.09 | BenUrban | or maybe a whole packet |
| 05:01.31 | *** join/#bzflag ToughShooter (~ts@p54B03160.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 05:13.06 | *** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast007@24-196-92-143.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) |
| 05:16.00 | brlcad | someone is missing |
| 05:18.37 | *** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast007@24-196-92-143.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) |
| 05:41.53 | Grumbler | well, power is running out |
| 05:43.39 | Grumbler | it was probably not a good idea to power up by the bar |
| 05:43.50 | Twingy | heh |
| 05:43.52 | Twingy | nice nick name |
| 05:46.32 | Grumbler | hey, thats not nice |
| 05:46.52 | Grumbler | ~SportChick-- |
| 05:47.00 | *** join/#bzflag foo-on-fire (~elmunky@user-0can33s.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 05:47.01 | SportChick | :( |
| 05:47.11 | Grumbler | ~SportChick++ |
| 05:47.20 | Grumbler | but i do owe you a couple |
| 05:47.37 | SportChick | a couple of ++ or a couple of --? |
| 05:48.29 | Twingy | hrm, could you clean up my mess when you're done? *duck* |
| 05:49.38 | SportChick | ~Twingy-- |
| 05:50.20 | Twingy | rightfully so |
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| 06:31.54 | *** join/#bzflag absurdhero (~absurd@c-67-172-162-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 06:40.56 | Erroneous | ~SportChick++ |
| 06:41.09 | SportChick | awwww |
| 06:41.13 | SportChick | DTRemenak++ |
| 06:41.48 | Twingy | Twingy^=1 |
| 06:42.53 | trepan | marathon? |
| 06:43.01 | Erroneous | no, just 3 and 4 :) |
| 06:57.12 | *** part/#bzflag ToughShooter (~ts@p54B03160.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:02.00 | SportChick | ~Aribeth++ |
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| 07:31.11 | *** part/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~jeffm@JeffM2501.sustaining.supporter.pdpc) |
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| 11:44.25 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
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| 12:53.39 | *** join/#bzflag rooter (~mad@zoom.westga.edu) |
| 12:54.22 | rooter | hello all |
| 12:56.19 | rooter | on the CTF league site, on the team match listing... what does it mean when the line is red? Like here: http://my.bzflag.org/league/index.php?link=teaminfo&id=106 |
| 13:00.53 | rooter | ah, it only shows up when i'm logged in |
| 13:03.27 | *** join/#bzflag Saturos (~konversat@p54BFD2BC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:05.06 | *** join/#bzflag kierra (~Owner@fl-71-0-161-236.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) |
| 13:11.19 | meacan | rooter: it means that its new since last login |
| 13:11.50 | rooter | Ah! that could explain why i had so many of them... i really should login more often |
| 13:11.52 | rooter | thanks meacan |
| 13:12.26 | meacan | rooter: kinda like forum, it tries to highlight new items |
| 13:12.30 | meacan | <-- [dmp] :-) |
| 13:12.39 | rooter | Oh! |
| 13:12.50 | rooter | that makes sense |
| 13:14.05 | meacan | The same does news items too - if anyone would enter "news" :) |
| 13:15.00 | rooter | the bz world moves fairly slowly |
| 13:15.52 | meacan | yeah. But news have never really been used. And i doubt anyone really reads/checks it. Forums would probably be a better place to enter such things after all |
| 13:17.10 | rooter | well, i better get busy... the slavers are cracking their whips |
| 13:17.18 | rooter | thanks again bamf |
| 13:17.33 | *** part/#bzflag rooter (~mad@zoom.westga.edu) |
| 13:17.34 | Saturos | I have the same problem on my page bzflag.de... too few BZ-news. :) Hi you two. :) |
| 13:17.53 | Saturos | err... hi [dmp] then. |
| 13:17.58 | meacan | bamf? |
| 13:18.15 | meacan | hi Saturos |
| 13:18.17 | Saturos | 8) |
| 13:18.53 | meacan | the stuff from bzcontenst is attached to my monitor :) |
| 13:19.01 | Saturos | :) |
| 13:19.04 | Saturos | The stickers? |
| 13:19.21 | meacan | along with a gnome that survived the winter |
| 13:19.26 | Saturos | I can't really remember what I sent you... a button and stickers? |
| 13:20.05 | Grumbler | you dont remember what he won..........thats just wrong.......... |
| 13:20.11 | meacan | the price, stickers, and a button. button and lanyard is here.. dunno where the stickers are (just got home yesterday, everything is a mess) |
| 13:20.45 | Saturos | So you attached the lanyard to your monitor? |
| 13:20.56 | Saturos | Or am I getting it wrong? :D |
| 13:21.22 | meacan | correct :) |
| 13:21.45 | Saturos | Grumbler: Of course he got a lanyard but I attached some merchandising too. And since I didn't think anybody would put a lanyard on his monitor I suspected the other stuff. ;) |
| 13:22.17 | Saturos | Well... that's a bit out of purpose. But if it looks good... why not. |
| 13:23.07 | meacan | looks better than the gnome :) |
| 13:23.40 | Saturos | Makes me happy that you seem to like the items. |
| 13:24.21 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@63.147.94.151) |
| 13:24.27 | Saturos | http://saturos.de/projects/upload/files/imag0026.jpg |
| 13:24.31 | Saturos | DId you see that? :D |
| 13:24.35 | meacan | Cool :) Even the gf was pretty excited about the competition :) |
| 13:25.17 | meacan | hehe |
| 13:25.20 | meacan | respect :) |
| 13:25.21 | Saturos | (One of my windows - the others hold more tanks. ;) ) |
| 13:25.44 | Saturos | My gf had a bunch of window-color-tubes. I just had to do it. ;) |
| 13:27.00 | Saturos | Erm... my father forces me to wash the dishes. Damn. Gotta go. |
| 13:27.06 | Saturos | Cya. :) |
| 13:27.14 | meacan | ca |
| 13:27.17 | meacan | cya |
| 13:28.44 | bryjen | heh. bzflag on windows... xp from the look of it... |
| 13:29.27 | bryjen | perhaps next is bzflag on a macintosh |
| 13:29.31 | bryjen | ~dict 4 macintosh |
| 13:43.39 | *** join/#bzflag wegstar (~foo@wegstar.user.allegro) |
| 13:46.27 | *** part/#bzflag kierra (~Owner@fl-71-0-161-236.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) |
| 13:58.18 | wegstar | bzfs.lib?? |
| 14:03.02 | wegstar | where do I find that? |
| 14:06.57 | *** join/#bzflag SportChick (~SportChic@ca-redbch-cuda1-c3b-a-40.stmnca.adelphia.net) |
| 14:22.03 | *** join/#bzflag Bagheera (~Grumbler@grumbler.bronze.supporter.pdpc) |
| 14:23.40 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (~CBG@cpc2-stme1-5-1-cust173.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 14:25.03 | bryjen | wegstar: iirc, it's generated by building bzfs |
| 14:25.19 | CBG | Saturos, ping |
| 14:26.08 | wegstar | hmm... nope |
| 14:29.17 | bryjen | what compiler / IDE are you using? |
| 14:29.32 | wegstar | Visual C++ 2005 Express Edition |
| 14:30.00 | bryjen | hmm |
| 14:30.21 | wegstar | wait... the one used to compile bzfs? |
| 14:30.36 | wegstar | yeah I used mingw to compile bzfs |
| 14:32.35 | bryjen | it may be something that's only setup in the Visual Studio (or whatever it's called that JeffM is using) build |
| 14:37.11 | *** join/#bzflag [dmp] (~dennis@port151.ds1-aboes.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 14:41.42 | *** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast007@24-196-92-143.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) |
| 15:00.06 | Grumbler | ok, almost there. |
| 15:11.08 | SportChick | this is addictive: http://files.deviantart.com/f/2004/188/8/7/gridgame.swf |
| 15:13.00 | wegstar | hmm..interesting |
| 15:15.16 | wegstar | yay 363 |
| 15:15.47 | SportChick | my highest so far is 1015 |
| 15:16.10 | *** join/#bzflag RedBaron2 (~4700a1ec@genesis.concept69.de) |
| 15:17.49 | SportChick | yay! 1100 |
| 15:21.47 | *** join/#bzflag Birdie (~birdie@d51A4640A.access.telenet.be) |
| 15:23.55 | *** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast007@24-196-92-143.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) |
| 15:24.38 | ToughShooter | Hiya Sporty |
| 15:28.56 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (~timr@TimRiker.bronze.supporter.pdpc) |
| 15:28.56 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 15:50.43 | ToughShooter | SportChick: http://img109.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bild1xj.jpg :) |
| 15:51.52 | Aribeth | hi ToughShooter |
| 15:51.59 | Aribeth | hi SportChick |
| 15:52.13 | ToughShooter | Howdy Aribeth |
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| 15:59.35 | *** join/#bzflag SportyGal (DonnaCrawf@24-75-159-182.vnnyca.adelphia.net) |
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| 16:16.39 | TimRiker | "buckshot" ? it's what you shoot a deer with, no? |
| 16:16.43 | TimRiker | ~dict buckshot |
| 16:16.55 | TimRiker | ~dict buckshot |
| 16:18.28 | Aribeth | tim, as JeffM2501 described it it would be a cone of i think 4 shots in a random patern |
| 16:19.07 | bryjen | bird shot then. all available shots fired at slighly varies paths in a cone going forward and up from the tank. Used to combat WinGs. |
| 16:19.34 | Birdie | yay a birdshot |
| 16:19.36 | bryjen | s/all available/a set number/ |
| 16:19.39 | Birdie | watch out for those |
| 16:20.08 | Aribeth | i like my Icarus flag idea |
| 16:20.25 | wegstar | hmm |
| 16:20.42 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~JeffM@JeffM2501.sustaining.supporter.pdpc) |
| 16:20.42 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 16:20.59 | wegstar | heya jeffm2501 |
| 16:21.38 | wegstar | where do I get bzfs.lib? |
| 16:22.37 | JeffM2501 | I make you one |
| 16:22.43 | wegstar | ok |
| 16:23.34 | JeffM2501 | I set it up so that all the windows binarys from now on will include one |
| 16:23.43 | JeffM2501 | we just haven't made a 14 |
| 16:23.48 | *** join/#bzflag foo-on-fire (~elmunky@user-0can33s.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 16:24.11 | wegstar | o |
| 16:24.26 | foo-on-fire | every time i try and update my build of 2.0.3 i get this option: "override rw-r--r-- root/admin for .deps/buildDate.Po? (y/n [n])"? |
| 16:25.11 | foo-on-fire | somebody suggested i choose 'yes' last time, but i'm not sure if i should do the same now, since it's a recurring error |
| 16:25.12 | JeffM2501 | you don't have perms to blow over the file you changed |
| 16:25.54 | foo-on-fire | JeffM2501: "blow over"? |
| 16:25.56 | bryjen | hmm, yeah. you may need to become root and rm that file |
| 16:26.26 | JeffM2501 | foo-on-fire, your file is difrent from the one in CVS |
| 16:26.29 | JeffM2501 | so it wants to replace it |
| 16:26.34 | foo-on-fire | right. |
| 16:26.37 | JeffM2501 | so it wants to blow it out |
| 16:26.39 | JeffM2501 | just say yes |
| 16:26.43 | foo-on-fire | ok |
| 16:26.57 | JeffM2501 | looks like you did your CO as root |
| 16:27.02 | JeffM2501 | and are doing your update as not root |
| 16:27.24 | foo-on-fire | my "CO"? |
| 16:27.25 | Aribeth | eek, thats not good |
| 16:27.30 | SportyGal | Aribeth: what was that website we were playing with last night? |
| 16:27.32 | Aribeth | checkout |
| 16:27.36 | foo-on-fire | oh |
| 16:27.47 | bryjen | another idea for a counter-wings-flag that's a bit more general: Gravity Well: gravity for all tanks (yours too!) within a raduis around you is increased by some factor |
| 16:27.47 | foo-on-fire | i don't think |
| 16:27.50 | Aribeth | Sporty, i have a link |
| 16:27.51 | foo-on-fire | i did |
| 16:28.32 | Aribeth | www.guesswhichmovie.com |
| 16:28.56 | bryjen | or maybe not for yours.... that wouldn't make sense. |
| 16:28.58 | foo-on-fire | so everything's fine if i just choose yes...? |
| 16:29.09 | JeffM2501 | wegstar, http://myth.gibbscam.com/temp/bzfs.lib |
| 16:29.13 | JeffM2501 | foo-on-fire, |
| 16:29.14 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 16:29.26 | foo-on-fire | good |
| 16:29.31 | foo-on-fire | thanks for the help |
| 16:29.31 | JeffM2501 | it's just your build date file that gets updated on your silly OS when you build :) |
| 16:29.33 | ruskie | gaahhh bad day to play... |
| 16:30.06 | Aribeth | bryjen, that sounds like a good counter |
| 16:30.46 | JeffM2501 | bryjen, why not tractor beam :) |
| 16:30.50 | JeffM2501 | "get over here" |
| 16:30.52 | Aribeth | i still like the idea of knocking WG out of the sky with the Icarus flag :) |
| 16:31.03 | bryjen | and it's not so wings-specific, as it'd stop plain old jumpers too |
| 16:31.13 | JeffM2501 | Aribeth, come with me to my branch and we'll add it ;) |
| 16:31.14 | SportyGal | Aribeth: ahhhhh...thanks! I tried "GuessWhatMovie.com" and "GuessTheMovie.com" - neither was right |
| 16:31.15 | Aribeth | yes it would |
| 16:31.29 | bryjen | JeffM2501: trying to counter wings really needs a weapon you don't have to aim |
| 16:31.41 | JeffM2501 | bryjen, I know, was thiknking auto lock in a sphere |
| 16:31.43 | wegstar | ok.. thanks |
| 16:31.43 | bryjen | or aim so much |
| 16:32.18 | JeffM2501 | SportyGal, that's not really a rank |
| 16:32.22 | JeffM2501 | more of a statement |
| 16:32.32 | SportyGal | :) |
| 16:32.35 | JeffM2501 | I could make your rank "athletic supporter" |
| 16:32.49 | SportyGal | no thanks |
| 16:32.55 | SportyGal | I prefer to participate than to support |
| 16:33.08 | bryjen | lets not go there... ;) |
| 16:33.18 | SportyGal | ~lart bryjen |
| 16:33.41 | *** join/#bzflag bm (~bm@203-59-185-86.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 16:33.49 | JeffM2501 | you'd have to forumulate it in the form of a title, state, or position |
| 16:34.04 | SportyGal | How about "The |
| 16:34.04 | foo-on-fire | after updating my cvs version, compiling, and installing today, when i launch bzflag, it says the version is 2.0.3.20050801-DEVEL |
| 16:34.06 | SportyGal | oops |
| 16:34.11 | JeffM2501 | your think is more of a statement for a sig |
| 16:34.20 | SportyGal | How about "The 'Sports are for Chicks" Chick |
| 16:34.21 | foo-on-fire | should i say 2.0.3.20050803-DEVEL? |
| 16:34.21 | JeffM2501 | foo-on-fire, and this is bad how? |
| 16:34.26 | foo-on-fire | it's the third |
| 16:34.31 | JeffM2501 | foo-on-fire, no you replaced the build date file |
| 16:34.34 | Aribeth | hummm...www.bzflag.org down? |
| 16:34.34 | JeffM2501 | with the one from cvs |
| 16:34.43 | JeffM2501 | sf has problems |
| 16:34.51 | Aribeth | oh its just slow |
| 16:35.46 | foo-on-fire | foo-on-fire: shouldn't that mean it should display that it's the 20050803 release? |
| 16:35.47 | bryjen | it only updates the date when you run ./configure |
| 16:35.52 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 16:35.53 | foo-on-fire | shoot |
| 16:35.59 | JeffM2501 | run config again |
| 16:36.03 | JeffM2501 | and it'll update it |
| 16:36.07 | foo-on-fire | i said that to myself. lol |
| 16:36.11 | foo-on-fire | ok |
| 16:36.28 | Aribeth | hummm...Gravity Well hasn't been ricker'd yet |
| 16:36.34 | foo-on-fire | do i compile again after the configure script is run? |
| 16:36.47 | bryjen | is that one already there? |
| 16:36.54 | JeffM2501 | none of them have been rikered |
| 16:36.58 | Aribeth | yes its on the list |
| 16:36.58 | JeffM2501 | and I doubt they will be |
| 16:37.46 | Aribeth | drive 97 miles til you come to the fork in the road |
| 16:37.48 | Aribeth | :P |
| 16:38.07 | bryjen | ah, there its a shot effect. i was just thinking it'd come from the tank itself |
| 16:38.33 | JeffM2501 | from the shell is a little wiered |
| 16:38.37 | JeffM2501 | I'd have it be a field effect |
| 16:38.47 | Aribeth | yes |
| 16:39.01 | JeffM2501 | dono how well that would sync with the current networking system |
| 16:40.26 | Aribeth | what do you think of the Icarus flag just drops WG flags in aradius? |
| 16:40.47 | JeffM2501 | still a little too WG specific |
| 16:40.50 | JeffM2501 | and too "hand of good" |
| 16:40.52 | Aribeth | ahh |
| 16:41.01 | JeffM2501 | and again, why not just kill em? |
| 16:41.09 | Aribeth | true |
| 16:41.19 | JeffM2501 | if you are going to "affect" them |
| 16:41.19 | bryjen | _that_ would be even more godlike |
| 16:41.28 | JeffM2501 | at least it would be consistent :) |
| 16:41.28 | Aribeth | ya |
| 16:41.43 | JeffM2501 | what makes wings so powerfull |
| 16:41.49 | JeffM2501 | lets look at the core problem |
| 16:41.55 | Aribeth | or just jam the jump jets for a short time |
| 16:41.56 | JeffM2501 | maybe a new flag isn't the answer |
| 16:42.02 | bryjen | plucking their wings still gives them a chance to out drive you on the ground |
| 16:42.04 | JeffM2501 | what makes other flags unable to counter it? |
| 16:42.04 | Aribeth | maybe |
| 16:42.07 | JeffM2501 | like SW? |
| 16:42.20 | bryjen | SW's short range |
| 16:42.31 | JeffM2501 | so the problem is they have a better ability to snipe? |
| 16:42.34 | blast007 | what I don't like about it, is their ability to instantly jump upward, when falling a quite a fast rate |
| 16:42.47 | blast007 | at quite* |
| 16:42.59 | Aribeth | yes |
| 16:43.16 | JeffM2501 | so maybe change it so they take multiple flaps to slow down |
| 16:43.28 | bryjen | yeah, they can "bounce" off the ground, descending from on high, getting off a shot, and zipping back up |
| 16:43.36 | Aribeth | they can and do out manuver normal players very well |
| 16:43.40 | *** join/#bzflag brad2901 (brad@ACCB0A55.ipt.aol.com) |
| 16:43.57 | blast007 | just add the wingsJumpVelocity to their current vertical velocity, and cap it off to prevent them from rocketing up |
| 16:44.15 | JeffM2501 | so maybe slow down there turning ability when flying? |
| 16:44.24 | JeffM2501 | make them move a little slower |
| 16:44.28 | blast007 | yup |
| 16:44.35 | JeffM2501 | use up more flaps to go up again |
| 16:44.37 | Aribeth | my score has gone from +14 to -30 with only one WG player |
| 16:44.48 | bryjen | the slide time thing help with their horizontal manuverability |
| 16:44.54 | JeffM2501 | Aribeth, don't look at the ancilary effects, look at the core problem |
| 16:44.54 | foo-on-fire | in a lot of servers, they have something like 99999 allowed wings jumps, and people with wings just hover around in the air all the time, it's impossible to get them. then when you're not looking they come down and blast you. just my input on what sucks about wings... :) |
| 16:45.13 | bryjen | its the vertical control that makes it so powerful |
| 16:45.17 | JeffM2501 | foo-on-fire, that is a server with a bad setting, you can have the same kind of play with a SW with max range |
| 16:45.24 | Birdie | wings is only good with a one shot or 2shots limit |
| 16:45.28 | Aribeth | bryjen, i agree |
| 16:45.36 | foo-on-fire | Birdie: yea |
| 16:45.42 | JeffM2501 | maybe add a little random into the flap amount too? |
| 16:45.50 | Aribeth | and maybe slow down their turning |
| 16:46.00 | JeffM2501 | still gives the fun of flying but dosn't make them sniping machinees |
| 16:46.08 | JeffM2501 | it would make sense that it's harder to shoot from a flying platform |
| 16:46.31 | JeffM2501 | I'm just trying to evaluate all posibilitys |
| 16:46.44 | Aribeth | np jeffM2501 |
| 16:46.45 | JeffM2501 | if there really is a problem with wings, then there is more then one solution |
| 16:47.05 | JeffM2501 | if it's just some people don't "like" it and want an insta kill it flag, then that's not a reason to make a change |
| 16:47.19 | JeffM2501 | any idea shoudl be able to stand up to arugments against as well as for |
| 16:47.29 | Aribeth | yes |
| 16:47.38 | bryjen | i think i like blasts idea about additive flaps, inertia and all. |
| 16:47.40 | JeffM2501 | so right now wg tanks move and turn at normal speed? |
| 16:47.48 | JeffM2501 | I like that idea too |
| 16:47.54 | JeffM2501 | make the flap just add to the vel |
| 16:47.55 | JeffM2501 | not set it |
| 16:47.56 | Aribeth | i beleive so |
| 16:47.57 | bryjen | JeffM2501: you were the one who kept saying "why not just kill them?" ;P |
| 16:48.27 | JeffM2501 | bryjen, yeah, I was, because if you are going to take the time to affect a tank, in a one shot kill game like bz, why not just kill them. |
| 16:48.35 | JeffM2501 | now I am looking beyond the new flag idea |
| 16:48.45 | bryjen | JeffM2501: because that would be too much. |
| 16:49.08 | bryjen | you're arguing against your own arguement :) |
| 16:49.12 | JeffM2501 | I would think an interesting test woudl be, set wg flying tanks to 1/2 speed and turn, and change the flap |
| 16:49.23 | JeffM2501 | bryjen, I think the having them not fly, would be too much as in too confusing |
| 16:49.41 | bryjen | eh, maybe |
| 16:49.42 | JeffM2501 | bryjen, all ideas change, any arugment must be able to evolve |
| 16:50.17 | JeffM2501 | if the goal is to make WG counterable, I'd like to first see if it could be tweaked |
| 16:50.32 | JeffM2501 | I don't belive much thought was put into how it would ballence when it was put in |
| 16:50.34 | bryjen | hence my gravity suggestion. not wings specific, but could work well against it |
| 16:50.37 | JeffM2501 | so we can take a ballance pass at it |
| 16:50.55 | JeffM2501 | bryjen, a worthy idea, but again it goes right to the new flag method |
| 16:51.06 | JeffM2501 | another methiod could be to change WG |
| 16:51.19 | JeffM2501 | adding a flag is an escalation method |
| 16:51.27 | JeffM2501 | that didn't work for the US and USSR :) |
| 16:51.40 | JeffM2501 | better is to reeval the feature that has the problem |
| 16:51.43 | JeffM2501 | first |
| 16:51.53 | JeffM2501 | if that can't be fixed there, then look into adding a counter |
| 16:52.27 | JeffM2501 | I personaly like the idea that SW could be a counter for WG |
| 16:53.04 | Aribeth | in what way would SW be a counter? |
| 16:53.04 | JeffM2501 | but then I also like the idea of SW having a chance to deflect shots too :) |
| 16:53.12 | bryjen | the slide time, jump count, and seperate gravity settings for wings were added to contain its power. these are passive measures though, and have had small effect. I'd like a more active counter agent. |
| 16:53.15 | JeffM2501 | Aribeth, the fact that you don't have to ame |
| 16:53.16 | JeffM2501 | aim |
| 16:53.22 | Aribeth | ahh |
| 16:53.47 | JeffM2501 | it has been said that the game has too many flags as is |
| 16:54.06 | JeffM2501 | bryjen, that just means the things added in where not well thought out |
| 16:54.18 | JeffM2501 | but it all could use testing |
| 16:54.22 | bryjen | or its not always the right approach |
| 16:54.33 | JeffM2501 | I don't think we can all make a hard core decision on it with out playtesting |
| 16:54.39 | JeffM2501 | bryjen, posibly |
| 16:54.41 | bryjen | well, yeah |
| 16:54.52 | JeffM2501 | I think that's how we get into these situations |
| 16:55.03 | JeffM2501 | stuff gets slaped in and we all don't take an effort to ballance it out |
| 16:55.14 | bryjen | quit sharpening the nails, sometimes you just need a bigger hammer :) |
| 16:55.53 | JeffM2501 | in the MMORPG world there are people's jobs to ballance |
| 16:56.05 | JeffM2501 | bryjen, sometimes, but not untill you realise that sharp nails don't work :) |
| 16:56.13 | bryjen | yes, we have no QA department |
| 16:56.19 | JeffM2501 | at this point all of us are guessing |
| 16:56.23 | JeffM2501 | it's not even QA |
| 16:56.29 | JeffM2501 | it's end user experience |
| 16:56.38 | JeffM2501 | and playability |
| 16:56.48 | bryjen | part of the Quality |
| 16:57.31 | JeffM2501 | maybe once we tag we can make a couple changes to a 2.1.x and see what some changes would do |
| 16:57.45 | Aribeth | being dominated by WG takes the fun out of playing for what its worth |
| 16:59.03 | JeffM2501 | well no mater what, no mater how much we talk, we can't really add it to 2.0.x |
| 16:59.06 | Aribeth | imho they can turn and jump to fast |
| 16:59.14 | JeffM2501 | I agree with that |
| 16:59.20 | JeffM2501 | I think they shouol be halved no mater what |
| 16:59.31 | Aribeth | i agree Jeff |
| 16:59.50 | bryjen | limiting wings is likely to just shift where the complaints are coming from. the people that like it know will say you've fscked up wings |
| 16:59.57 | JeffM2501 | maybe a flag that jams all "non weapon" flags in a radius could be your ikarus flag |
| 17:00.00 | bryjen | s/know/now |
| 17:00.06 | JeffM2501 | then it would work for stuff like ST too |
| 17:00.11 | JeffM2501 | and CL |
| 17:00.21 | bryjen | there's SEer for those |
| 17:00.28 | JeffM2501 | seer is full ma |
| 17:00.29 | JeffM2501 | map |
| 17:00.33 | JeffM2501 | this could be just a rad |
| 17:00.38 | JeffM2501 | but lets others see too |
| 17:00.54 | JeffM2501 | would reverse tiny and thin |
| 17:00.56 | JeffM2501 | and others |
| 17:01.05 | JeffM2501 | call it the "normalizer" |
| 17:01.07 | JeffM2501 | :) |
| 17:01.16 | Aribeth | !dict icarus |
| 17:01.18 | TheLastSpartan | Aribeth: wn: Icarus n : (Greek mythology) son of Daedalus; while escaping from Crete with his father (using the wings Daedalus had made) he flew too close to the sun and the wax melted and he fell into the Aegean and drowned |
| 17:01.19 | bryjen | Icarus is named with a wings-specific reference. that'd need another name |
| 17:01.19 | JeffM2501 | I'm just hucking out ideas |
| 17:01.29 | JeffM2501 | yeah it would |
| 17:01.44 | JeffM2501 | the name should fit the flag desing, the design should not change to fit the flag |
| 17:02.11 | JeffM2501 | hmmm maybe a flak cannon |
| 17:02.23 | JeffM2501 | fires bursts into the air, and they explode in little SWs :) |
| 17:02.42 | Aribeth | hummmm.....that sounds interesting |
| 17:03.08 | JeffM2501 | the bad thing would be to shoot it when you are under a building :) |
| 17:03.08 | bryjen | "bullets that explode into shockwaves" is a common theme for l33t flag :/ |
| 17:03.18 | JeffM2501 | yeah it is |
| 17:03.23 | JeffM2501 | dosn't meen it's wrong |
| 17:03.34 | JeffM2501 | a full range shot that explodes into a SW is a bit much |
| 17:03.43 | JeffM2501 | but a small one with an AE may have merrit |
| 17:03.50 | JeffM2501 | shorter range |
| 17:03.54 | JeffM2501 | only goes upish |
| 17:04.03 | JeffM2501 | again it'd need playtesting |
| 17:04.13 | bryjen | leaves you vulnerable to ground attack again |
| 17:04.17 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 17:04.19 | purple_cow | playtesting is for chumps |
| 17:04.19 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@host-84-222-137-48.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 17:04.19 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 17:04.25 | JeffM2501 | good againt jumpers too |
| 17:04.33 | purple_cow | and suckers |
| 17:04.42 | JeffM2501 | this coming from the roomate of the inventor of wings :) |
| 17:04.57 | purple_cow | the thing he did was completely different from wings :P |
| 17:05.00 | purple_cow | he did a flight-sim |
| 17:05.01 | JeffM2501 | I know |
| 17:05.03 | JeffM2501 | it's just funny |
| 17:05.04 | bryjen | hmm, maybe it the explode height leaves the bottom of the SW on the horizontal with the shooter |
| 17:05.20 | purple_cow | and he never suggested that it ever be part of the actual game :P |
| 17:05.23 | JeffM2501 | I think it would be fun to make them open to ground atack |
| 17:05.31 | JeffM2501 | kinda like BU is open to being ssquishes |
| 17:05.59 | JeffM2501 | if you are that in need of wings defense, you have to give somethign up :) |
| 17:06.11 | JeffM2501 | just like the burrow people give up speed |
| 17:06.17 | JeffM2501 | since they just can't dodge |
| 17:06.53 | JeffM2501 | burrow is a good example of a well balanced flag, it dosn't need a direct counter, because it's self countering |
| 17:06.56 | JeffM2501 | I like that in a design |
| 17:07.02 | JeffM2501 | makes it easyer to mix it with others |
| 17:07.20 | bryjen | and its radar range is limited |
| 17:07.26 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 17:07.33 | JeffM2501 | it has good and bad |
| 17:07.41 | JeffM2501 | SB has no bad |
| 17:07.52 | JeffM2501 | does SB have a counter? |
| 17:08.02 | Aribeth | not imho |
| 17:08.08 | bryjen | sometimes you need a rico. |
| 17:08.11 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 17:08.17 | JeffM2501 | that's about it |
| 17:08.33 | JeffM2501 | and that's kinda a minimal detrement |
| 17:08.35 | bryjen | its not terrible, but its there |
| 17:08.46 | JeffM2501 | the ability to just nail people thru stuff more then makes up for that :) |
| 17:09.04 | bryjen | OO and PZ without SB can be bad |
| 17:09.17 | JeffM2501 | yeah SB IS a counter |
| 17:09.21 | Aribeth | yes |
| 17:09.23 | bm | ST is a counter to SB, most SB players are mainly using radar. |
| 17:09.42 | JeffM2501 | GM was made to have more of a self counter by making the GM alive time further out |
| 17:09.56 | JeffM2501 | so that WG people can get in and kill em |
| 17:09.58 | bryjen | true, you can't SB someone through an opaque obstacle if you can't see them on radar |
| 17:10.04 | JeffM2501 | or AG people |
| 17:10.13 | JeffM2501 | bryjen, well you can, you just have to be lucky :) |
| 17:10.24 | JeffM2501 | or good |
| 17:10.36 | bryjen | the GM "activation time" is a kludge to prevent self-kills. I don't care what learner says. :P |
| 17:10.53 | JeffM2501 | it's probably what it started as, but it works as a good self counter too |
| 17:11.03 | JeffM2501 | note how the "GM is too powerfull" comments are way down |
| 17:11.09 | RatOmeter__ | GM is still to powerup, IMO |
| 17:11.10 | bryjen | its the second-worst idea in 2.0 |
| 17:11.30 | RatOmeter__ | *too powerful* |
| 17:11.44 | JeffM2501 | that is one of the problems with the flags, some are powerups that have a direct counter, and others are self ballanced |
| 17:11.47 | JeffM2501 | makes it hard to mix them |
| 17:11.52 | JeffM2501 | like in a non jumping server |
| 17:11.57 | JeffM2501 | jump is a powerup |
| 17:12.00 | JeffM2501 | with no direct counter |
| 17:12.05 | JeffM2501 | same for rico |
| 17:12.06 | Grumbler | ~bryjen++ |
| 17:12.17 | bryjen | jumping poorly is a counter unto itself. |
| 17:12.27 | JeffM2501 | wonder what the design goal of the flags were origonaly |
| 17:12.31 | Grumbler | and landing is a batch |
| 17:12.38 | JeffM2501 | was it suposed to be everyone had a good flag and a difrent power? |
| 17:12.45 | bryjen | so Jump is one of those self-limiting things you like ;) |
| 17:12.50 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 17:13.14 | JeffM2501 | it's like you can't compare a tank with SB to a tank with no flag |
| 17:13.17 | JeffM2501 | it's just not fair |
| 17:13.24 | JeffM2501 | but you can compare a tank with no flag to BU |
| 17:13.36 | JeffM2501 | they are matchable, based on the players skill |
| 17:13.36 | Grumbler | but SB has slow reload |
| 17:13.40 | JeffM2501 | does it? |
| 17:13.43 | Grumbler | yep |
| 17:13.49 | JeffM2501 | well then I did not know that |
| 17:13.59 | JeffM2501 | bryjen, I would not doubt it |
| 17:14.01 | bryjen | Grumbler: I don't think so (re: reload) |
| 17:14.13 | JeffM2501 | I thought it was the same as normal |
| 17:14.22 | JeffM2501 | just like Invis shot |
| 17:14.24 | Grumbler | it did, i know there was a setting for it |
| 17:14.36 | JeffM2501 | there may be a setting, but is it's default the same as normal? |
| 17:14.59 | Grumbler | have to check......and i dont have a repository on the new server.....and old server is down |
| 17:15.15 | JeffM2501 | with settings anything can be done and screw the ballance. so I'm just thingking about defautls here |
| 17:15.25 | JeffM2501 | if we can ballance that, then what people do with settings is up to them :) |
| 17:15.58 | JeffM2501 | ST has no disadvantage does it? |
| 17:16.02 | JeffM2501 | nor does CT |
| 17:16.12 | JeffM2501 | they are direct counter flags |
| 17:16.17 | Grumbler | ST, yes it does, if you are on a team |
| 17:16.25 | bryjen | same with CL |
| 17:16.35 | JeffM2501 | ok for teamkills |
| 17:16.39 | bryjen | they don't enhance your weapon though |
| 17:16.45 | JeffM2501 | and they don't slow you down |
| 17:16.54 | JeffM2501 | or affect you the tank driver in any way really |
| 17:17.16 | JeffM2501 | L has slower recharge |
| 17:17.28 | JeffM2501 | and the ability to just ream yourself on a rico server :) |
| 17:17.38 | Aribeth | yes |
| 17:17.40 | bryjen | well, you might try manuvering a little sneakier as to not give away the surprise early... |
| 17:18.06 | JeffM2501 | bryjen, true, but that's a playstyle choice, not something built into the flag |
| 17:18.19 | bryjen | yeah, was just about to say that |
| 17:18.23 | Grumbler | you could use the same argument for GM though |
| 17:18.26 | JeffM2501 | if you wanted to self balance it you could make the tank perform at 75% saying you need to be stealthy |
| 17:18.40 | bryjen | they're not as useful if you don't play that way though |
| 17:18.53 | JeffM2501 | GM is not really that self limited, other then that thing that was added |
| 17:19.07 | bryjen | turn rate is limited |
| 17:19.21 | bryjen | the smoke from the missile can be blinding |
| 17:19.24 | JeffM2501 | yeah it's a mix of just plain old POWER flags, and ones that are self balancing |
| 17:19.27 | JeffM2501 | interesting |
| 17:19.40 | JeffM2501 | that means there are really 3 types of "good" flags |
| 17:19.53 | JeffM2501 | "powerups" "counters" and "self balancing" |
| 17:20.13 | JeffM2501 | to me it dosn't seem that many servers run with bad flags do they? |
| 17:20.32 | Aribeth | some do |
| 17:20.39 | Grumbler | many is vague, but i play on several that do |
| 17:20.42 | JeffM2501 | good flags are much more popular right? |
| 17:20.47 | Aribeth | not sure how many though |
| 17:20.54 | bryjen | http://www.bzflag.org/wiki/ProjectHistory last paragraph, the origin of superflags |
| 17:20.57 | Grumbler | well, bouncy has come in handy a few times |
| 17:21.03 | JeffM2501 | on any average server is it a 50/50 split between good and bad flags? |
| 17:21.06 | foo-on-fire | can i make a server where you always have a certain flag? |
| 17:21.20 | JeffM2501 | foo-on-fire, not using the default stuff |
| 17:21.20 | Grumbler | JeffM2501, no, usually less |
| 17:21.24 | bryjen | most that do have bad flags use short shake times |
| 17:21.28 | JeffM2501 | Grumbler, that's what I thought |
| 17:21.44 | JeffM2501 | so it sounds like the desing they are going for is, everyone has a flag |
| 17:21.46 | foo-on-fire | well, can i have it so that you cannot shoot unless you have a flag? |
| 17:21.47 | JeffM2501 | and a power |
| 17:21.54 | JeffM2501 | and the game is how you use that power to win |
| 17:21.55 | JeffM2501 | right? |
| 17:22.05 | JeffM2501 | foo-on-fire, not with the default stuff |
| 17:22.09 | foo-on-fire | aww |
| 17:22.14 | JeffM2501 | code it up |
| 17:22.26 | bryjen | JeffM2501: that's a popular style of bzflag. another is driving and aiming (ducati) |
| 17:22.32 | JeffM2501 | Grumbler, I'm not arguing now, I'm just trying to see what people do now |
| 17:22.34 | JeffM2501 | to understand |
| 17:22.49 | JeffM2501 | yeah duc dosn't have any flags does it? |
| 17:23.07 | JeffM2501 | it's like the iroc of servers |
| 17:23.12 | bryjen | no (well team flags) |
| 17:23.14 | JeffM2501 | all about pilot skill |
| 17:23.15 | Aribeth | no not usualy |
| 17:23.29 | Grumbler | well, from a mental approach, its..............what flag can i get first.................is a good/strong flag..............run/dodge/kill...................is there someone dominating the map.........go and kill them |
| 17:23.49 | JeffM2501 | so the flag is your most important thing |
| 17:23.55 | JeffM2501 | is that what you are saying |
| 17:24.00 | JeffM2501 | do you ever run around with NO flag? |
| 17:24.11 | JeffM2501 | is the default tank config viable for most games? |
| 17:24.13 | Grumbler | sure, if the flags around me such |
| 17:24.14 | Aribeth | not often |
| 17:24.20 | JeffM2501 | so it's a lot like quake |
| 17:24.21 | bryjen | in a map littered with flags, you have to use them, or the other guy will, *on you* |
| 17:24.25 | JeffM2501 | find a good weapon, go kill |
| 17:24.50 | Aribeth | yes |
| 17:24.57 | Grumbler | and if you have a SW/GM/L camper, go find the counter flag and go kill |
| 17:25.01 | JeffM2501 | at that point maybe a good option would be to asign a random superflag on spawn |
| 17:25.18 | JeffM2501 | since everyone is gonna get one anyway |
| 17:25.31 | Aribeth | na |
| 17:25.33 | Grumbler | nah, because sometimes you want to kill the other tank to get his flag |
| 17:25.45 | JeffM2501 | you can allways drop it |
| 17:25.56 | JeffM2501 | it sounds like in those cases the default tank config is a disadvantage |
| 17:26.03 | JeffM2501 | or a punishment |
| 17:26.07 | JeffM2501 | in the case of theif |
| 17:26.09 | Grumbler | true, i just dont want someone spawning next to me with laser |
| 17:26.16 | JeffM2501 | true |
| 17:26.21 | JeffM2501 | maybe a range of flags then |
| 17:26.27 | bryjen | being able to drop is important, to aviod the limits of the self-limiting |
| 17:26.38 | JeffM2501 | leave GM,L, and WG as "special" flags |
| 17:26.41 | JeffM2501 | that you have to fight for |
| 17:26.59 | Grumbler | WG is not special, its a cheat |
| 17:27.06 | JeffM2501 | that is just your opinion |
| 17:27.09 | JeffM2501 | it's in there |
| 17:27.10 | Aribeth | ~Grumbler++ |
| 17:27.11 | JeffM2501 | we put it in |
| 17:27.14 | JeffM2501 | it is not a cheat |
| 17:27.22 | JeffM2501 | it may have been poorly implemented |
| 17:27.26 | JeffM2501 | but that is just our fualt |
| 17:27.35 | JeffM2501 | it can't be removed |
| 17:27.39 | JeffM2501 | so you have to deal with it |
| 17:27.44 | Aribeth | then it need fixing imho |
| 17:27.59 | JeffM2501 | I think we are all in agreement that some changes need to be made for it |
| 17:28.01 | JeffM2501 | in some way |
| 17:28.12 | JeffM2501 | but calling it a cheat is just childish |
| 17:28.31 | Aribeth | i like slowing it down to 1/2 speed |
| 17:28.33 | Grumbler | ...and you outta know |
| 17:28.36 | JeffM2501 | I'm trying to hav a serious game balance discussion on it, something we don't EVER do |
| 17:28.42 | JeffM2501 | I like that idea too |
| 17:28.52 | JeffM2501 | when we tag I'll make those changes and we can all test it |
| 17:29.00 | JeffM2501 | then look into testing out counter flag ideas |
| 17:29.04 | Aribeth | sounds good |
| 17:29.04 | bm | the slide and flap settings can suitably nerf WG, the problem (if any) is those settings arent being used very often |
| 17:29.45 | JeffM2501 | the problem grumber is that there are people who LIKE the flag, so when you balance you have to look at it from an unbiased view |
| 17:29.45 | bryjen | multiple flaps is not the default. that setting is being used |
| 17:30.11 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 17:30.22 | JeffM2501 | I do think there are too many settings for any sane server op to use |
| 17:30.29 | JeffM2501 | maybe we shoudl have presets that change stuff |
| 17:30.38 | JeffM2501 | like one that allows more flaps but makes thme less effective |
| 17:30.59 | JeffM2501 | that way we can provide more sets of settings that make sense for them |
| 17:31.10 | JeffM2501 | multi flap was actualy a bug IIRC |
| 17:31.23 | JeffM2501 | the flap limit was put in to fix the bug |
| 17:31.32 | bryjen | it became a tuneable feature |
| 17:31.35 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 17:31.46 | JeffM2501 | when it started it was multiflap |
| 17:32.19 | Grumbler | but back to the balance discussion |
| 17:32.31 | JeffM2501 | the problem I have with just slaping in counter flags with out fully justifying it is, wings was put in that way, and look where it got us. |
| 17:32.51 | JeffM2501 | well I think we all have some ideas now |
| 17:32.55 | JeffM2501 | we just have to wait to test them |
| 17:33.03 | JeffM2501 | and then dicuss from there based on what we find |
| 17:33.52 | JeffM2501 | now you all could let me put in one shot activatable pickups and I'll give you a WG counter :) |
| 17:33.54 | JeffM2501 | repeller :) |
| 17:33.58 | Aribeth | i like the idea of testing new flag ideas befor just adding them |
| 17:34.29 | JeffM2501 | testing has to be done at this pooint, there are enough flags in the game that make it very complex to add new ones to the mix |
| 17:34.41 | Aribeth | yes |
| 17:35.11 | Grumbler | well, i what i havent seen stated, simply .....is a list of the problems with WG. what is it about WG that make it wrong.......no counter, too powerful, powerful+lag=>super powerful... |
| 17:35.20 | JeffM2501 | wonder if there should also be like a server side sanity check, that prints a warning to the server owner when they use combos that may have poblems |
| 17:35.37 | bryjen | need to get a good number of testers to seriously play. wings did get some trying out, but mostly just a few folks from here goofing off |
| 17:35.40 | JeffM2501 | Grumbler, I asked that at the start, and peolle said it |
| 17:35.59 | JeffM2501 | bryjen, yeah, I think we should use the forums more to push for tests |
| 17:36.02 | JeffM2501 | like testing days |
| 17:36.09 | JeffM2501 | get a decent number of people in |
| 17:36.21 | JeffM2501 | and have some sort of form they should fill out on what they thought |
| 17:36.47 | Aribeth | yes |
| 17:37.19 | Grumbler | oy, that always sounds good, but open conversation is better.....avoid the form if possible |
| 17:38.11 | Grumbler | you also have to take into account what server was run, and what lag to the server was recorded |
| 17:39.44 | Grumbler | pompous donkey sometimes |
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| 17:39.59 | Aribeth | heh agreed |
| 17:40.07 | bryjen | Ok, along the lines of those three good flag categories... wings has no direct counter, and is not a counter itself, which leaves it to be self-limiting. but is has no _bad_ side. just limits to make it not-so-good |
| 17:40.21 | JeffM2501 | what was the last thing you saw me say? |
| 17:40.36 | Grumbler | "some sort of form" |
| 17:40.36 | JeffM2501 | bryjen, I agree, I think it should be made self limiting |
| 17:41.08 | JeffM2501 | <JeffM2501> Grumbler, that's why I say we have testing events, so we know the server |
| 17:41.08 | JeffM2501 | <JeffM2501> and the setings |
| 17:41.08 | JeffM2501 | <JeffM2501> and then ask them how that worked out for them |
| 17:41.08 | JeffM2501 | <JeffM2501> have a mailing list to send out the stuff we are looking for |
| 17:41.08 | JeffM2501 | <JeffM2501> or to announce the changes that are currently being tested |
| 17:41.12 | JeffM2501 | <JeffM2501> like we have a testing specific server(s) |
| 17:41.14 | JeffM2501 | --- Dis |
| 17:41.18 | JeffM2501 | man I typed a lot when I was disconected too :) |
| 17:42.29 | *** join/#bzflag [dmp] (~dennis@port151.ds1-aboes.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 17:42.56 | *** join/#bzflag mmu_man (~revol@p54AD9949.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:44.07 | JeffM2501 | bryjen, maybe it needs to be a bit self limiting, and a bit countered |
| 17:51.32 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2502 (~JeffM@users.gibbscam.com) |
| 17:53.11 | JeffM2502 | good lord |
| 17:53.33 | JeffM2502 | is it just me? |
| 17:53.41 | JeffM2502 | was it something I said? |
| 17:54.51 | bryjen | yes, rational debate will not be tolerated! |
| 17:54.53 | bryjen | ;) |
| 17:55.01 | JeffM2502 | so the gods command it |
| 17:55.40 | JeffM2502 | so where were we? |
| 17:56.08 | JeffM2502 | had I said anything about a fork in the past hour? |
| 17:56.14 | Aribeth | <@JeffM2501> bryjen, maybe it needs to be a bit self limiting, and a bit countered |
| 17:56.25 | bryjen | that's a two-bit idea ;) |
| 17:56.32 | JeffM2502 | <JeffM2501> problem with counters is, what's going to make server ops from using the counter |
| 17:56.32 | JeffM2502 | <JeffM2501> are the current servers populated with good amounts of seer, to go witht he ST/CL? |
| 17:57.13 | bryjen | do they pick the flags, or just +f good{X} ? |
| 17:57.18 | JeffM2502 | I dono |
| 17:57.23 | JeffM2502 | that's why I'm asking |
| 17:57.36 | JeffM2502 | you all play a lot more then I, so I defer to you for what's out there |
| 17:57.45 | bryjen | any secretplace admins care to comment? |
| 17:58.03 | JeffM2502 | it'd be cool to get a data sampling of what most servers are running |
| 17:58.16 | Aribeth | i normaly use +f good{x} and -s xx |
| 17:58.18 | JeffM2502 | like what configs get the most people and stuff |
| 17:58.39 | JeffM2502 | ok so if people generaly use the good ones, they'll posibly get some counters |
| 17:58.59 | JeffM2502 | maybe with +F good, the server should know what flags are counter only and make sure that the counters are there somewhere too |
| 17:59.15 | JeffM2502 | perhaps we put those 3 classes of flag in the code |
| 17:59.52 | Aribeth | but in order for me to remove wings i have had to define each flag indivigualy |
| 17:59.55 | JeffM2502 | then an option could be +f power and then you only get self balancing flags |
| 18:00.03 | bryjen | +f good gives you one of each good, so counters being good, you get them too |
| 18:00.09 | Aribeth | useing -f WG does not work |
| 18:00.16 | JeffM2502 | bryjen, if you have enough flag slots right? |
| 18:00.32 | bryjen | hmm? |
| 18:00.34 | JeffM2502 | +f good{2} could give you ST but no Seer |
| 18:00.51 | bryjen | no, that'd give 2 of each good |
| 18:00.54 | JeffM2502 | ohh |
| 18:00.57 | JeffM2502 | ok |
| 18:01.12 | JeffM2502 | I thought that gave you 2 flags, from the good pool |
| 18:01.20 | JeffM2502 | then there realy isn't a problem with that |
| 18:01.39 | JeffM2502 | Aribeth, -f WG dosn't do it? |
| 18:02.05 | JeffM2502 | IIRC -f puts the flag in the "disallowed flag" list |
| 18:02.06 | Aribeth | no. you still get WG |
| 18:02.32 | trepan | -f is associated with +s/-s, not +f ... |
| 18:02.41 | bryjen | iirc, there was some confusion a while back as to how +s and -s for random flags behave |
| 18:03.32 | bryjen | trepan: so -f WG does not stop +f good from giving you a wings flag? |
| 18:03.35 | Aribeth | in order to disalow a flag i had to define each flag one by one |
| 18:03.52 | JeffM2502 | ahh |
| 18:03.52 | Aribeth | no it does not stop it |
| 18:04.11 | JeffM2502 | maybe -f should work with +f then |
| 18:04.23 | Aribeth | and i had to balance the numbers for each |
| 18:04.25 | JeffM2502 | just to make it easyer |
| 18:04.30 | Aribeth | yes |
| 18:04.31 | trepan | i know that Lou specs each flag, as do i |
| 18:04.37 | trepan | some maps can't use +f good |
| 18:04.43 | JeffM2502 | no they can't |
| 18:05.03 | JeffM2502 | thats just an ease of server use tho |
| 18:05.31 | JeffM2502 | so it sounds like self balancing, counter, or a bit of both may work |
| 18:05.40 | JeffM2502 | and then we have to test the hell outa it |
| 18:05.42 | Aribeth | the man page says -f flag should work |
| 18:05.52 | JeffM2502 | maybe it's just a bug then |
| 18:06.08 | Aribeth | i think it may be a bug |
| 18:06.17 | trepan | Aribeth: not the current bzfs man page |
| 18:06.19 | JeffM2502 | for testing I say we use SF to disribute "betas" |
| 18:06.23 | Aribeth | ohh |
| 18:06.31 | bryjen | Aribeth: "-f {good|bad|flag-id} Disallows random flags of the given type." +f flags are required flags, -/+s are random |
| 18:06.39 | JeffM2502 | we make a testing project, fill it with the betas |
| 18:06.44 | trepan | Disallows random flags of the given type. Required flags given by |
| 18:06.44 | trepan | the +f option are still provided. The bad argument is equivalent to |
| 18:06.44 | trepan | specifying -f once for each kind of bad flag. |
| 18:06.47 | JeffM2502 | then clear it when the release is done |
| 18:07.54 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpinella (~frank@p5481B261.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:18.50 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 18:18.55 | trepan | JeffM2501: you trying to enforce sensible flag setups? |
| 18:19.11 | JeffM2501 | sorta |
| 18:19.17 | JeffM2501 | at least talk about them |
| 18:19.28 | JeffM2501 | I know that actual "game design" is crazy talk around here |
| 18:19.33 | JeffM2501 | but maybe it's time for it |
| 18:20.00 | Grumbler | by doing so you are definitely favouring the flag-counter flag approach i would think |
| 18:20.11 | Erroneous | trying to save people from their own stupidity is pointless and limiting |
| 18:20.28 | JeffM2501 | Grumbler, It is a thing to think of |
| 18:20.38 | JeffM2501 | but I also feel that making it self balanceing is an option too |
| 18:20.48 | JeffM2501 | we have a couple options |
| 18:20.49 | Erroneous | it's the server owner's job to ensure that his world is balanced |
| 18:20.55 | JeffM2501 | I personaly like self blancing |
| 18:21.10 | Erroneous | if it's not balanced to the satisfaction of the players, they will not play there |
| 18:21.20 | JeffM2501 | Erroneous, they arn't do ing it, if we say it's all the server owners then why don't we just let them write there own flags |
| 18:21.29 | Erroneous | if it is balanced to the satisfaction of the players who play there then it's GOOD ENOUGH |
| 18:21.31 | JeffM2501 | we have a default gameplay, that is all I'm trying to balance |
| 18:21.39 | Erroneous | default is no-flags |
| 18:21.43 | JeffM2501 | true |
| 18:21.54 | JeffM2501 | so then noone can complain about any flags |
| 18:22.01 | JeffM2501 | since they are all just hacks |
| 18:22.07 | Erroneous | I haven't been complaining about flags ;) |
| 18:22.12 | JeffM2501 | others have |
| 18:22.14 | Grumbler | and noone can complain if we remove flags |
| 18:22.15 | JeffM2501 | that's what I'm saying |
| 18:22.16 | Erroneous | there are flags I don't like. I don't use them |
| 18:22.24 | Erroneous | big whoop |
| 18:22.28 | bryjen | adding a wings counter flag is providing the admins a tool to balance with ;) |
| 18:22.42 | trepan | they already have the tools |
| 18:22.45 | JeffM2501 | adding more controlls to let the wings flag self balance is the same |
| 18:22.53 | Erroneous | Grumbler: removing flags is limiting. the idea is to be LESS limiting not more |
| 18:22.58 | JeffM2501 | trepan, they can't slow down the speed of a flying tank |
| 18:23.08 | JeffM2501 | can they? |
| 18:23.19 | trepan | they can't slow down its angvel either, but those are not the only ways to limit |
| 18:23.20 | orange | this is not a complaint, but the list of options and features available in bzfs is long and not up to date, there are many different (and inconsistent) ways of changing them, and most people have no clue how to change them, no clue that they even CAN change them, so I would think sensible defaults at all levels would make sense |
| 18:23.29 | Grumbler | and people accuse me of stupid arguments |
| 18:23.37 | JeffM2501 | trepan, so we don't have the tools to do the idea we discussed then right? |
| 18:23.52 | JeffM2501 | slowing them down and making the flaps adjust not set vel |
| 18:23.52 | trepan | ... but those are not the only ways to limit |
| 18:23.57 | JeffM2501 | no they are not |
| 18:24.00 | JeffM2501 | but they are some |
| 18:24.21 | JeffM2501 | in an opimal world we would let them limit it in any way they chose |
| 18:24.33 | JeffM2501 | leting the server fully define the behavor of the flag |
| 18:24.35 | JeffM2501 | but we don't have that |
| 18:24.56 | JeffM2501 | I'm all for more ways to customise the behavor |
| 18:25.01 | trepan | my point is that there are already ways to limit the flag that aren't being used |
| 18:25.10 | JeffM2501 | that is a true statement as well |
| 18:25.19 | trepan | are you sure that by adding _wingsTankSpeed it'll get used ? |
| 18:25.28 | JeffM2501 | my point is there are ways to limit it that could also be fun that can't be done |
| 18:25.37 | JeffM2501 | trepan, depends what it's default is |
| 18:25.52 | JeffM2501 | but you are right, the core problem is server owners don't set sane setings |
| 18:26.05 | JeffM2501 | or they change one and noth otehrs |
| 18:26.22 | bryjen | if they're using +f good, a counter flag would be automagically included |
| 18:26.27 | Erroneous | sometimes the server owners and their players like non-sane settings...should we limit that? |
| 18:26.31 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 18:26.35 | JeffM2501 | maps.google.com is cool |
| 18:26.44 | JeffM2501 | Erroneous, no, not at all |
| 18:26.58 | JeffM2501 | I just think the defaults should be sane and balanced to our design |
| 18:27.05 | Erroneous | ok, good. now I'll go back in my cave :) |
| 18:27.05 | JeffM2501 | once they change it let em go where they want |
| 18:27.40 | JeffM2501 | I do think the number of settings they have now is duanting |
| 18:27.44 | orange | what I was saying, and I think you're saying the same JeffM2501, is that just knowing they can turn on wings flags doesn't mean they know how or will tweak the settings |
| 18:27.52 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:28.00 | JeffM2501 | I'd like to provide them some presets |
| 18:28.01 | orange | so it'd be best if it was 'good' out of the box... defaults apply at many many levels |
| 18:28.05 | JeffM2501 | for known fun configurations |
| 18:28.08 | Erroneous | JeffM2501: there has been a suggestion for a "style" setting |
| 18:28.10 | Erroneous | yeah |
| 18:28.10 | bryjen | orange: having >1 flap is a non-default setting |
| 18:28.12 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:28.33 | JeffM2501 | yeah peoople are setting the flags and seting the flaps |
| 18:28.38 | JeffM2501 | but not seting the other stuff |
| 18:28.44 | JeffM2501 | and people are saying those servers arn't fun |
| 18:28.51 | Erroneous | not everyone says they aren't |
| 18:28.53 | orange | right, because some player says "hey, set _wingsFlapCount 999" or whatever |
| 18:28.56 | Erroneous | people still play on them |
| 18:29.00 | JeffM2501 | there are other optiosn to make those servers fun, adding more options to wings, or adding counter flags |
| 18:29.29 | orange | is it possible to change the name of a group on bzbb without affecting anything else about it? |
| 18:29.37 | JeffM2501 | orange, yeah |
| 18:29.39 | orange | thanks |
| 18:29.41 | JeffM2501 | we just rename it |
| 18:29.59 | JeffM2501 | all a group realy is, is an id # |
| 18:30.09 | orange | I was hoping that was the case |
| 18:30.30 | bryjen | I don't hate wings. I don't want it to just go away or be crippled. I'd just like a way to counter it. I have yet to find a good strategy that works consistently. |
| 18:30.58 | orange | I still think a self-balancing method is best... not a counter-flag |
| 18:30.59 | Grumbler | ~bryjen++ |
| 18:31.06 | JeffM2501 | so do I |
| 18:31.17 | JeffM2501 | self balancing mixes best with other flags |
| 18:31.26 | orange | I like the 'fall from more than a certain distance holding this flag and you die' method |
| 18:31.47 | Erroneous | orange: what's to prevent them from dropping it when they fall? |
| 18:31.57 | orange | nothing, but then they lose it, right? |
| 18:32.00 | JeffM2501 | you'd have to add hud indicators for that, and that would make the game more complex |
| 18:32.07 | bryjen | I worry that "self-balanceing" it will be crippling it. take too much of the fun out, and other people will complain |
| 18:32.08 | Erroneous | right, and can pick it up when they land |
| 18:32.15 | Erroneous | most dropped flags are not zapped |
| 18:32.16 | JeffM2501 | you can't peanalise a noob for not knowing something |
| 18:32.20 | orange | make it disappear after first drop, it can, right? |
| 18:32.27 | JeffM2501 | that's complex |
| 18:32.29 | JeffM2501 | way complex |
| 18:32.39 | JeffM2501 | and very arbitrary |
| 18:32.51 | Erroneous | yay arbitrariness |
| 18:32.52 | JeffM2501 | I think slowing them down would make it fun |
| 18:32.58 | JeffM2501 | and makes some sense |
| 18:33.13 | trepan | angvel also makes sense |
| 18:33.14 | JeffM2501 | flying controlls of a tank are not as crisp as it is when driving :) |
| 18:33.23 | Erroneous | as long as it's configurable. slowing down wings on e.g. hills would be idiotic |
| 18:33.25 | bryjen | not complex. it'd be a special case in the code. if type==WG in front of if drops=>maxdrops |
| 18:33.25 | trepan | the changes i put in yesterday balances it out some |
| 18:33.36 | JeffM2501 | what did you change? |
| 18:33.46 | trepan | wings slide, grav, jumpvel |
| 18:33.59 | JeffM2501 | how do old clients behave with those setings? |
| 18:34.05 | bryjen | he change the defaults for the existing tunables |
| 18:34.07 | trepan | they pick them up |
| 18:34.09 | JeffM2501 | ahhh |
| 18:34.10 | JeffM2501 | ok |
| 18:34.12 | JeffM2501 | existing |
| 18:34.13 | JeffM2501 | got it |
| 18:34.15 | JeffM2501 | cool |
| 18:34.26 | bryjen | server-side |
| 18:34.28 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:34.37 | JeffM2501 | for some reason I thought he was saying he added those |
| 18:35.15 | JeffM2501 | well we'll see how those help in 2.0.4 then |
| 18:35.18 | JeffM2501 | and go from there |
| 18:35.44 | trepan | those are settings used on Metropolis, no big complaints |
| 18:35.48 | JeffM2501 | cool |
| 18:36.04 | Grumbler | from what i see on SP, the admins will find the old vals and change to that......so anyone with 90+ms lag is screwed |
| 18:36.29 | Erroneous | say, that brings up something else I'd like to see |
| 18:36.37 | JeffM2501 | Grumbler, that's just mean |
| 18:36.41 | Erroneous | I'd like a way to administratively lock a bzdb variable |
| 18:36.41 | JeffM2501 | dude why are you so bitter? |
| 18:37.01 | Tupone | Erroneous: please rebuild curl too, if you have not yet, after you changed c-ares |
| 18:37.10 | trepan | JeffM2501: because he's prolly right ;) |
| 18:37.12 | Grumbler | wings man, its all about wings and lag. |
| 18:37.12 | Erroneous | Tupone: ugh |
| 18:37.14 | Erroneous | Tupone: ok |
| 18:37.29 | JeffM2501 | so you are seriously telling me that they want to make people with slow connections play worse? |
| 18:37.40 | JeffM2501 | why would they not just change the lagkick? |
| 18:37.59 | orange | hmm, I didn't catch the intent relationship in what he said |
| 18:38.00 | Grumbler | heh, because a lagkick of 120 would get rid of the pigeons |
| 18:38.23 | bryjen | Grumbler: that's an admin problem. Like what Erroneous was saying. You can't stop people from shooting themselves in the foot. |
| 18:38.39 | JeffM2501 | they may change them back to defaults because that's the way they like it to play, but I don't think it's to screw people with +90 |
| 18:38.51 | trepan | Erroneous: you really need that level of control? |
| 18:38.54 | JeffM2501 | that's the part I felt was mean |
| 18:38.59 | Grumbler | yep, its unforturneate that single flag is the cause of it though |
| 18:39.10 | JeffM2501 | Grumbler, it was a change |
| 18:39.18 | JeffM2501 | all changes cause people to feel it's effects |
| 18:39.25 | Erroneous | trepan: yeah. right now I've removed SET from all but admin, because of just a couple variables that I don't want changed |
| 18:39.34 | bryjen | No, if it wasn't for wings, they'd probly find something else to tweak that you wouldn't like |
| 18:39.35 | JeffM2501 | you can work with it, or you can bitch and moan and look like a fool |
| 18:39.42 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:39.56 | JeffM2501 | no other persons prefrences will be perfect for any other person |
| 18:40.08 | Grumbler | bryjen, not really, it has been pretty solid for many versions |
| 18:40.17 | JeffM2501 | so go play those |
| 18:40.34 | JeffM2501 | if you can't deal |
| 18:40.43 | JeffM2501 | we have been trying to dicuss it rationaly |
| 18:40.54 | JeffM2501 | but from you I mostly see snide remarks |
| 18:40.59 | JeffM2501 | so I just wonder why? |
| 18:41.07 | Grumbler | becasue you are not listening |
| 18:41.27 | bryjen | that's another issue too, Jeff. the argument, "play somewhere else" or "start you own" is a empty solution. |
| 18:41.28 | JeffM2501 | just because I don't agree 100% with what you say dosn't mean I don't hear you |
| 18:41.44 | JeffM2501 | bryjen, I know, it's the same as his comments, baseless |
| 18:41.47 | JeffM2501 | that's why I said it |
| 18:42.27 | JeffM2501 | Grumbler, I thought you had some good input into the conversation |
| 18:42.36 | JeffM2501 | but then you come off with comments like that |
| 18:42.45 | bryjen | specious. that's the word i was looking for |
| 18:42.51 | JeffM2501 | that's a word? |
| 18:43.02 | JeffM2501 | !dict specious |
| 18:43.03 | TheLastSpartan | JeffM2501: wn, gcide, and moby-thes responded: wn: specious adj 1: plausible but false; "specious reasoning"; "the spurious inferences from obsolescent notions of causality"- Ethel Albert [syn: {spurious}] 2: plausible but false; "a specious claim" 3: based on pretense; deceptively pleasing; "the gilded and perfumed but inwardly rotten nobility"; "meretricious praise"; "a meretricious (6 more messages) |
| 18:43.16 | JeffM2501 | yeah that would be it :) |
| 18:43.29 | bryjen | looks good at first, but doesn't work out in practice |
| 18:43.33 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:43.38 | JeffM2501 | same as "remove wings" |
| 18:43.41 | JeffM2501 | or "it's a cheat" |
| 18:43.56 | bryjen | it _was_ a cheat ;) |
| 18:43.56 | JeffM2501 | it just started as a cheat ;) |
| 18:44.07 | orange | sanctioned cheat |
| 18:44.32 | JeffM2501 | the moment we put it in, it became a feature, maybe not the best thought out feature, but at that point, we had to support it, just like any other flag or feature |
| 18:44.41 | JeffM2501 | and I feel we shoudl treat it as such |
| 18:45.02 | JeffM2501 | maybe remoal is an option, but that seems to be a very harsh thing, since people ARE using it, and ARE having fun with it. |
| 18:45.03 | Erroneous | JeffM2501: not from the moment we put it in. there have been times we've pulled stuff back out before release. |
| 18:45.11 | JeffM2501 | true |
| 18:45.14 | Erroneous | it's when it was released that it became permanent |
| 18:45.17 | JeffM2501 | I don't recall the puiing of a flag |
| 18:45.18 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:45.20 | bryjen | removing it is an option. the most extreme one. i repeat that i'm not advocating going that far. |
| 18:45.22 | JeffM2501 | that's kinda what I meant |
| 18:45.23 | Erroneous | JeffM2501: Lag? |
| 18:45.37 | orange | here is what I used to use to build bzflag from cvs: |
| 18:45.38 | orange | cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.sf.net:/cvsroot/bzflag login |
| 18:45.38 | orange | cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.sf.net:/cvsroot/bzflag checkout bzflag |
| 18:45.38 | orange | cd bzflag && ./autogen.sh && ./configure && nice make |
| 18:45.39 | bryjen | nothing is permanent. they're only bits. |
| 18:45.45 | trepan | ~lart Erroneous |
| 18:45.48 | JeffM2501 | Erroneous, ? |
| 18:45.49 | trepan | perfect |
| 18:45.53 | orange | but now when I run ./configure I get: |
| 18:45.58 | orange | BZFlag-2.0.3.20050803 |
| 18:45.59 | orange | configure: error: cannot run /bin/sh ./config.sub |
| 18:46.12 | Erroneous | JeffM2501: the Lag Flag was pulled before release. And trepan just slapped me for mentioning it. |
| 18:46.21 | JeffM2501 | well that was just stupid :) |
| 18:46.27 | JeffM2501 | but a good point |
| 18:46.33 | JeffM2501 | at least we pulled that before release |
| 18:46.44 | Grumbler | look, i am just trying to help......wings has problems, my "snide" comments are meant to highlight the fact that wings, even with all the tunablity, has problems as implemented on networks where lag is greater +90(bullssht number i grant you), and I am not hearing solutions that would solve that......a counter flag would, and the only argument against that is that it is against philosophy.... |
| 18:46.50 | JeffM2501 | it's out there, we'd catch crap if we pulled it |
| 18:47.15 | JeffM2501 | Grumbler, so you feel that self limiting the flag will not be efective? |
| 18:47.16 | Erroneous | heck yeah you would. there are way more people who really like wings than who dislike it |
| 18:47.28 | bryjen | even "released" feature should not be religiously held on to. if they are sufficiently crap, they should die. |
| 18:47.44 | JeffM2501 | I don't think wings is suficently crap tho |
| 18:47.47 | Grumbler | JeffM2501, yes, self limiting the flag will be ineffective |
| 18:47.47 | orange | wings is good on servers where it is intended for everyone to have wings |
| 18:47.48 | Aribeth | i dont think it would |
| 18:47.50 | JeffM2501 | irix support is crap |
| 18:47.55 | Erroneous | bryjen: have to be a lot more careful, but it can still be done |
| 18:47.57 | JeffM2501 | Grumbler, why do you feel this way? |
| 18:48.01 | bryjen | I don't either. is just needs works. |
| 18:48.08 | JeffM2501 | I'd like to know your reasons for thinking this |
| 18:48.38 | JeffM2501 | so far I've seen reasons against self limiting is, grumbler things it won't work, others like the idea |
| 18:48.42 | orange | JeffM2501: are you talking about limiting by changing it irrevocably to be limited, or just changing the default values to cripple it? |
| 18:49.02 | JeffM2501 | orange, making more options to limit other things whne you have lit |
| 18:49.05 | JeffM2501 | like your turn speed |
| 18:49.11 | JeffM2501 | and your ability to change direction |
| 18:49.15 | JeffM2501 | so more then we have now |
| 18:49.25 | orange | what grumbler is saying (I think) is that if you can make it so it works like today, some servers will do so |
| 18:49.33 | JeffM2501 | sure |
| 18:49.34 | orange | so that's no limit at all |
| 18:49.38 | JeffM2501 | that can happen with any change |
| 18:49.44 | JeffM2501 | some servers could not add in the counter flag |
| 18:49.45 | Grumbler | JeffM2501, let me answer your question with another......how do you stragically attack someone with a WG flag, assuming you dont have WG yourself? |
| 18:49.47 | JeffM2501 | same argument |
| 18:49.52 | bryjen | I'm not entirely convinced that new tunables or tweaking wings behavior will be effective. I'd like to see it tested. My preference leans toward a counter weapon. |
| 18:50.07 | JeffM2501 | Grumbler, outmanuver them, and get under them with SW |
| 18:50.19 | JeffM2501 | right now with the current setings I don't think that is easy tho |
| 18:50.45 | JeffM2501 | I too would like to see it tested |
| 18:50.58 | JeffM2501 | maybe there are no settings that can help |
| 18:51.00 | Aribeth | hah, how many times have i trtied that and died in the process |
| 18:51.15 | trepan | 3? |
| 18:51.24 | bryjen | hehe |
| 18:51.30 | JeffM2501 | Aribeth, like I say, I don't think you can do it today |
| 18:51.42 | JeffM2501 | that is why I'd like to test new setings |
| 18:51.45 | Aribeth | agreed |
| 18:52.08 | JeffM2501 | with a counter flag, what is the strategy? |
| 18:52.10 | JeffM2501 | get under them |
| 18:52.14 | JeffM2501 | fire the coutner |
| 18:52.17 | JeffM2501 | wait for them to fall |
| 18:52.19 | JeffM2501 | then kill them? |
| 18:52.21 | bryjen | depends on how it works |
| 18:52.24 | JeffM2501 | or fire something up and kill them? |
| 18:52.42 | orange | (can anyone offer any advice on my ./configure problem _way_ above? :-) |
| 18:52.49 | JeffM2501 | sounds similar to my strategy, just with a difrent weapon |
| 18:52.50 | trepan | server-side AA guns |
| 18:52.59 | trepan | oh ya, bring on the flak |
| 18:53.00 | JeffM2501 | trepan, I sugested flak :) |
| 18:53.03 | Erroneous | orange: you on a mac? |
| 18:53.06 | orange | linux |
| 18:53.14 | orchid | vertical laser |
| 18:53.15 | JeffM2501 | flak would be good against jumpers too |
| 18:53.19 | orange | redhat9 (I know) |
| 18:53.20 | bryjen | randomly positioned transparent death drivers in the sky! |
| 18:53.28 | JeffM2501 | call them "air pockets" |
| 18:53.48 | trepan | although my old world weapon tracker patch would have done it easily |
| 18:53.48 | JeffM2501 | a verticaly firing spread weapon could be fun and usefull |
| 18:53.51 | Erroneous | Tupone: orange is having the same problem with config.sub etc not being copied as the mac kiddies are having |
| 18:53.57 | bryjen | turbulence |
| 18:53.57 | JeffM2501 | good against jumpers and flyers |
| 18:54.11 | JeffM2501 | trepan, make it a plugin, they can track players :) |
| 18:54.18 | Tupone | I suppose they need to get a good automake/autoconf |
| 18:54.31 | orange | autoconf (GNU Autoconf) 2.57 |
| 18:54.33 | *** join/#bzflag captrespect (~captrespe@dsl017-059-206.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 18:54.36 | captrespect | hey |
| 18:54.47 | orange | automake (GNU automake) 1.6.3 |
| 18:54.55 | captrespect | is there a way to alt tab out of bzflag in kde? |
| 18:54.57 | Erroneous | Tupone: then we should probably limit what it checks for, to make sure whatever they have will either work or fail |
| 18:55.07 | Tupone | orange: the problem is not that autoconf is broken. The problem is that the one shipped by Mac is broken IMHO |
| 18:55.12 | JeffM2501 | Grumbler, we are not saying we are going to change anything, we want to test, I hope you can help us test when we make the changes. that's all :) |
| 18:55.17 | orange | I'm on redhat 9, Tupone |
| 18:55.19 | Erroneous | Tupone: orange is on Redhat :) |
| 18:55.26 | Erroneous | Tupone: that's why I told you about it |
| 18:55.29 | JeffM2501 | maybe we will have to add a flag |
| 18:55.39 | JeffM2501 | some posible counter flags could be fun :) |
| 18:55.46 | JeffM2501 | and more fun is allways better |
| 18:55.50 | Erroneous | if it was just another mac I would have told him to copy the files like I tell all the other mac kiddies to do :) |
| 18:55.50 | Aribeth | trepan, i still have your tracker patch |
| 18:56.06 | JeffM2501 | I think it's going to come down to more options and a new weapon flag |
| 18:56.10 | Tupone | however 1.6 is the one that seems broken, from 1.7 on should work |
| 18:56.21 | orange | could you make gm more powerful if locked onto a wings player? |
| 18:56.29 | Tupone | but we can release a dist source |
| 18:56.32 | orange | Erroneous: what file do you tell them to copy? |
| 18:56.41 | Erroneous | orange: config.sub and config.guess |
| 18:56.41 | orange | perhaps it will work for me |
| 18:56.44 | JeffM2501 | orange, a posibility, tho I think the not lock thing is a bug |
| 18:56.46 | Erroneous | from anywhere else on your machine |
| 18:56.56 | Tupone | people are not required to automake/autoconf |
| 18:57.00 | orange | ah, I have an old cvs bzflag build |
| 18:57.03 | orange | I'll get that |
| 18:57.17 | Erroneous | Tupone: then perhaps we should set an AM_REQUIRED of 1.7, if that's what it needs? |
| 18:57.22 | trepan | Aribeth: ah, before the predictive tracking, iirc |
| 18:57.22 | Grumbler | the present, instaneous flap of WG makes GM locking/killing rough |
| 18:57.40 | Tupone | 1.7 or 1.8 or 1.9, not just 1.7 |
| 18:57.45 | JeffM2501 | somone made a patch that does better vertical locking |
| 18:57.48 | Aribeth | guard world weapon tracker |
| 18:57.51 | orange | Tupone, Erroneous: that got me past the next hurdle, thans |
| 18:57.52 | JeffM2501 | that will be applied in 2.1.x |
| 18:57.55 | JeffM2501 | that may help as well |
| 18:57.55 | orange | *thanks |
| 18:58.00 | Erroneous | orange: no problem |
| 18:58.19 | JeffM2501 | I would think GM should be able to lock on any visable tank |
| 18:58.20 | Erroneous | Tupone: there's no "1.7 or newer" notation? |
| 18:58.33 | Tupone | I don't remember, have to check |
| 18:58.50 | Tupone | however we should release source.tgz |
| 18:58.56 | Tupone | even for beta |
| 18:59.02 | Tupone | and put in SF IMHO |
| 18:59.07 | Erroneous | seems silly to me to have an error message like "can't run /bin/sh ./config.sub" when you could have "Automake 1.7 or newer required" |
| 18:59.27 | orange | is there a flag to configure to tell it where to look for a more recent version of curl? |
| 18:59.32 | Erroneous | ~lart JeffM2501 |
| 18:59.38 | Erroneous | heh |
| 18:59.40 | orange | I had to compile my own, and I don't want to install it for the whole system for fear of breaking something |
| 18:59.40 | JeffM2501 | scons.................................... |
| 18:59.48 | JeffM2501 | Erroneous, have you ever used scons? |
| 18:59.54 | Erroneous | JeffM2501: yup |
| 19:00.00 | JeffM2501 | and you like automake better? |
| 19:00.10 | Erroneous | needed to download like ten packages just to install the damn thing |
| 19:00.13 | Tupone | orange: the PATH for curl-config |
| 19:00.18 | JeffM2501 | oh that does suck |
| 19:00.24 | JeffM2501 | I just apted it and it worked |
| 19:00.27 | orange | ooh, I see what you mean |
| 19:00.30 | *** part/#bzflag captrespect (~captrespe@dsl017-059-206.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 19:00.42 | orange | lol |
| 19:00.44 | Erroneous | ~lart JeffM2501 |
| 19:01.03 | Erroneous | ~cluebat JeffM2501 |
| 19:01.03 | ibot | ACTION pulls out a ClueBat (tm) and thwaps JeffM2501. |
| 19:01.27 | Erroneous | hey, I like free computers :) |
| 19:01.41 | JeffM2501 | I tired slack, didn't like the install |
| 19:01.48 | Erroneous | what install? ;) |
| 19:01.52 | JeffM2501 | exactly |
| 19:02.07 | JeffM2501 | like I know how to format a drive |
| 19:02.07 | bryjen | text menus offend you? |
| 19:02.11 | Erroneous | it's so bsd-ish. feels nice and friendly. |
| 19:02.32 | JeffM2501 | at the time I didn't know squat, so I needed something to walk me thru it |
| 19:02.41 | JeffM2501 | I could probably get it all installed now |
| 19:02.45 | bryjen | it formats. partitioning may still be manual |
| 19:02.47 | Erroneous | heh, slack is not a distro for people who don't know squat, I'll grant you that :) |
| 19:02.56 | JeffM2501 | Grumbler, I don't like the squisy landing |
| 19:03.19 | bryjen | Grumbler: i wondered that yesterday, about the bounce attacks |
| 19:03.22 | Tupone | ~squat |
| 19:03.23 | JeffM2501 | featurewise, I didn't see it giving me anymore then debian did, so I just stayed with debian |
| 19:03.28 | orange | Tupone: thanks for pointing out what should have been obvious :-) |
| 19:03.34 | Grumbler | bryjen, thats what got me thinking about it |
| 19:03.34 | Tupone | yw |
| 19:03.50 | JeffM2501 | Erroneous, they are a bit too cartoony for me, I know they have to be exagerated or you don't see them |
| 19:03.57 | bryjen | heh. ibot doesn't know squat ;) |
| 19:04.06 | JeffM2501 | but you know I a more a hard core action type fan |
| 19:04.08 | Tupone | me neither |
| 19:04.41 | Erroneous | Tupone: to "not know squat" is to be clueless |
| 19:05.03 | Erroneous | hehe |
| 19:05.21 | Tupone | I'm clueless, what you mean |
| 19:07.18 | Erroneous | JeffM2501: I haven't tried debian in too long to criticize it :) |
| 19:07.36 | orange | I waited on a new release from them for a year before I gave up |
| 19:07.38 | bryjen | its hard to beat debian on sheer features (available package) count |
| 19:07.48 | Erroneous | but it was not an enjoyable experience for me when I did |
| 19:07.50 | orange | I don't like upgrading |
| 19:08.00 | Grumbler | orange, it just updated :) |
| 19:08.06 | orange | yeah, about 6 months too late for me |
| 19:08.23 | *** join/#bzflag rabbit25 (~rabbit25@pcp03852369pcs.martnz01.ga.comcast.net) |
| 19:08.24 | Erroneous | bryjen: build it all from source anyway :) |
| 19:08.28 | orange | seriously, I started looking seriously at using it about 1.5 years ago, and 6 months ago I gave up and went to gentoo |
| 19:09.12 | Erroneous | bryjen: packages mean nothing to me. remember, I use slackware and dragonfly ;) |
| 19:09.13 | Tupone | orange: and why redhat? |
| 19:09.14 | Grumbler | dont know gentoo, debian has always had what i needed......... |
| 19:09.47 | orange | an old sysadmin of mine liked it, and installed it on all our machines... it was pretty good back in the day, but the upgrade treadmill made me tired |
| 19:09.56 | Grumbler | although trying to find where they put the "standard" configs is always a larger chore then it should be |
| 19:10.44 | Tupone | well, if you have redhat and gentoo on the same network, you could build a make dist on gentoo and copy the tarball on redhat. so no config.sub |
| 19:11.30 | orange | well, I found an old config.sub and it's working so far |
| 19:13.15 | Erroneous | orange: config.sub and config.guess are standard files. theoretically you can use them from anywhere |
| 19:13.22 | orange | cool |
| 19:13.51 | Erroneous | although if you have a system whos id wasn't known by whatever autoconf generated the config.sub and config.guess, you might have a problem |
| 19:14.07 | orange | I did have to add "#include <ctype.h>" to bzflag/LocalCommand.cxx so isspace would work |
| 19:14.17 | orange | this is a problem that popped up many months ago, and now it is back |
| 19:14.22 | *** join/#bzflag foo-on-fire (~elmunky@user-0can33s.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 19:14.36 | *** join/#bzflag RPG_ (~G-bus@c-24-15-87-171.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 19:14.51 | RPG_ | hi |
| 19:15.02 | RPG_ | is there an estimated release date for 2.0.4? |
| 19:15.28 | bryjen | no |
| 19:15.30 | Tupone | dec 2004 |
| 19:15.34 | bryjen | "real soon now" |
| 19:15.35 | Erroneous | RPG_: within the next month, +/- 12 months |
| 19:15.59 | RPG_ | lol |
| 19:16.09 | bryjen | one month - 12 months? |
| 19:16.26 | orange | argh, confine mouse option doesn't work anymore... yes or no, I still can't get my mouse out |
| 19:16.37 | RPG_ | is there gonna be any significant BZFS changes from .0.2 to .0.4? |
| 19:16.38 | Erroneous | bryjen: sure, want to release 11 months ago? |
| 19:16.47 | Erroneous | RPG_: there are many |
| 19:16.48 | bryjen | typing so fast your going back in time? ;) |
| 19:16.57 | Tupone | orange: SDL ? |
| 19:17.34 | bryjen | never trust an Erroneous datestamp |
| 19:17.36 | orange | I think so |
| 19:17.55 | RPG_ | timestamp? |
| 19:18.44 | RPG_ | it says I can't compile plugins because the compiler can't find bzfs.lib. bzfs.lib is nowhere in CVS. How do i get bzfs.lib? |
| 19:19.07 | RPG_ | ~RPG has been stamped |
| 19:19.16 | RPG_ | -err |
| 19:19.20 | RPG_ | ~RPG_ is stamped |
| 19:19.20 | ibot | ...but rpg_ is already something else... |
| 19:19.39 | orange | Tupone: when I build without SDL (just did) now it won't capture the mouse, regardless of confine mouse setting |
| 19:19.56 | bryjen | RPG_: ask DTR or Jeff for one. the upcomig beta 14 package should have one included |
| 19:20.03 | Tupone | SDL is the only one that does |
| 19:20.09 | RPG_ | ok |
| 19:20.11 | orange | ah |
| 19:20.44 | RPG_ | ping DTRemenak |
| 19:21.11 | RPG_ | ping JeffM501 |
| 19:21.28 | RPG_ | ping JeffM2501 |
| 19:21.35 | JeffM2501 | RPG_, ? |
| 19:21.41 | RPG_ | do you have bzfs.lib ? |
| 19:21.53 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 19:21.59 | RPG_ | can I have a copy? |
| 19:22.10 | JeffM2501 | Erroneous, how close is 14 to being done? |
| 19:22.13 | Erroneous | RPG_: if you have a little patience you'll get it in b14 |
| 19:22.19 | Erroneous | JeffM2501: building the installer now |
| 19:22.25 | JeffM2501 | RPG_, no you may not |
| 19:22.46 | JeffM2501 | RPG_, the binary installers will incude it from now on, so the 14 he is making will have it in it |
| 19:23.02 | RPG_ | ok |
| 19:24.05 | JeffM2501 | if you must have it RIGHT now, http://myth.gibbscam.com/temp/bzfs.lib |
| 19:24.30 | Erroneous | aww, JeffM2501 is so nice |
| 19:25.09 | JeffM2501 | Erroneous, I had made it for wegstar before you said you were doing 14 |
| 19:25.17 | JeffM2501 | so it was just sitting there |
| 19:25.23 | Erroneous | ah, ok :) |
| 19:25.34 | JeffM2501 | what you thought I'd put "effort" into it? ;) |
| 19:25.37 | bryjen | erroneous statements |
| 19:25.53 | Erroneous | hehe |
| 19:27.15 | Erroneous | mmm, fried eggs |
| 19:27.20 | eggs-erroneous | heh |
| 19:28.45 | bryjen | ~dict 1 erroneous |
| 19:28.55 | bryjen | you deviant ;) |
| 19:29.01 | Erroneous | :) |
| 19:29.07 | *** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast007@24-196-92-143.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) |
| 19:29.27 | eggs-erroneous | lol |
| 19:29.48 | eggs-erroneous | its from the old Ernist goes to Camp movie |
| 19:30.15 | bryjen | and _that_ would explain why i don't get it |
| 19:30.17 | eggs-erroneous | eggs-eroneous means anything and everything goes into the eggs |
| 19:30.17 | Grumbler | ...you know you are a redneck.... |
| 19:31.34 | eggs-erroneous | grumbler, and... |
| 19:32.14 | Erroneous | oops. I suppose I should have built plugins first... |
| 19:32.31 | *** part/#bzflag RPG_ (~G-bus@c-24-15-87-171.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 19:32.48 | Erroneous | JeffM2501: I get a "scorereset.proj failed to open" |
| 19:33.17 | Erroneous | hmm, never mind, I'm an idiot |
| 19:34.27 | *** join/#bzflag a_monkey (~elmunky@user-0can33s.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 19:34.32 | Crazy_Cora | hummm...no punch line from Grumbler :P |
| 19:35.01 | a_monkey | ok guys. so, i need to have a .obj to import to a .bzw mesh right? |
| 19:36.22 | Crazy_Cora | :) |
| 19:36.27 | a_monkey | blender can export two kinds of .obj files - "videoscape with vertex colors obj" or "wavefront obj" |
| 19:36.31 | a_monkey | which one is it? |
| 19:37.04 | Grumbler | try'em both |
| 19:37.06 | Crazy_Cora | wavefront |
| 19:37.33 | a_monkey | Crazy_Cora: thanks |
| 19:38.17 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/plugins/ (2 files in 2 dirs): correct .def files |
| 19:40.51 | a_monkey | Crazy_Cora: you're sure, or guessing? |
| 19:40.57 | *** join/#bzflag tavla (~spreker@ip51cfa1ef.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 19:41.32 | Crazy_Cora | yes |
| 19:41.59 | bryjen | shurley not |
| 19:42.18 | Crazy_Cora | im sure its wavefront |
| 19:42.35 | Crazy_Cora | and dont call me sherly :P |
| 19:44.36 | orange | Tupone: had to go to SDL 1.2.8 - 1.2.5 didn't work right, though it passed the test (I believe) |
| 19:44.48 | orange | anyway, I have a working bzflag cvs version again, thanks |
| 19:44.59 | orange | ~Tupone++ |
| 19:45.03 | Tupone | SDL-1.2.8 is the one good, other I not suggest |
| 19:45.03 | orange | ~DTRemenak++ |
| 19:45.33 | Erroneous | 1.2.7 has always worked fine for me |
| 19:46.29 | Tupone | hmm, some problem an mac with that, IIRC |
| 19:47.17 | Erroneous | Tupone: well, I don't use a mac ;) |
| 19:47.32 | a_monkey | does the obj-to-bzw converter require a .mtl file to go with the .obj too? |
| 19:47.36 | a_monkey | for materials |
| 19:47.40 | a_monkey | or just the .obj |
| 19:47.43 | *** join/#bzflag twb (twb@CPE-144-132-70-24.vic.bigpond.net.au) |
| 19:47.58 | Crazy_Cora | just the .obj i beleive |
| 19:48.32 | *** join/#bzflag _Manu_ (~Julio@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 19:48.36 | Crazy_Cora | jeffM2501 would be the one to ask |
| 19:49.49 | Grumbler | SportChick, are the SP logs timestamped |
| 19:53.07 | a_monkey | k |
| 19:53.11 | *** join/#bzflag SC (~SportChic@ca-redbch-cuda1-c3b-a-40.stmnca.adelphia.net) |
| 19:53.11 | a_monkey | brb |
| 19:53.42 | Grumbler | three??.... SC, are the SP logs timestamped |
| 19:55.47 | trepan | Grumbler: i believe they are, Nid has a timestamping tool |
| 19:57.25 | Grumbler | yeah, i was hoping to get a copy and do some stat grouping..........its been awhile since i have looked at server logs though, so i am not sure what is in them anymore |
| 20:00.43 | trepan | p.s. bzfs also has a '-ts [micros]' option now, microsecs don't work in Win |
| 20:10.42 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03bryjen * 10bzflag/misc/checkToken.php: clean up the comment a little |
| 20:11.36 | trepan | ~dict coup |
| 20:12.00 | Aribeth | revolution |
| 20:12.02 | Aribeth | :P |
| 20:12.14 | trepan | from gcide: unexpected, clever, and successful tactic or stratagem |
| 20:12.48 | trepan | not sure that announcing it beforehand is a good idea |
| 20:12.52 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (~timr@TimRiker.bronze.supporter.pdpc) |
| 20:12.52 | *** join/#bzflag twb (twb@CPE-144-132-70-24.vic.bigpond.net.au) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 20:12.52 | *** join/#bzflag bm (~bm@203-59-185-86.dyn.iinet.net.au) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 20:12.52 | *** join/#bzflag RatOmeter (~chatzilla@139.78.95.188) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 20:12.52 | *** join/#bzflag gonkulator (~brandon@c-24-9-235-7.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 20:12.52 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by irc.freenode.net |
| 20:13.04 | Grumbler | they announced it afterwards.....seems a little late |
| 20:14.19 | Grumbler | http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=1724732005 |
| 20:15.42 | Erroneous | well ya don't want to announce it beforehand! |
| 20:16.12 | Grumbler | yeah, that would probably not be cricket |
| 20:25.10 | *** join/#bzflag foo-on-fire (~elmunky@user-0can33s.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 20:25.25 | foo-on-fire | i understand that there are 28 good flags total right now? |
| 20:26.09 | Tupone | I'm making a little test on my server. It seems only 2.0.0 had jitter problem |
| 20:27.20 | foo-on-fire | hmm |
| 20:28.13 | blast007 | foo-on-fire: you can get a list of them by doing: bzfs -help |
| 20:28.22 | foo-on-fire | how do i exclude flags from "+f good". i want no phantom zone or jumping or ricochet |
| 20:29.14 | bryjen | it doesn't work that way. if you don't want ALL of the good flags, you have to specify them seperately |
| 20:32.03 | Aribeth | +f ST{4} +f SE{8}..... |
| 20:33.11 | Erroneous | ~bzfrag jpa- |
| 20:33.11 | ibot | ACTION kills jpa- with a shot from his BZTank |
| 20:33.26 | Aribeth | heh |
| 20:33.39 | jpa- | Erroneous: did not :) |
| 20:33.50 | Erroneous | :) |
| 20:33.54 | Aribeth | ~bzfrag jpa- |
| 20:33.55 | ibot | ACTION destroys jpa- with a guided missle |
| 20:34.13 | jpa- | Aribeth: i'll accept anything from you |
| 20:34.33 | Aribeth | eek! |
| 20:35.12 | bryjen | ~bzflist |
| 20:35.20 | Aribeth | hummm...what devltry can i think of next |
| 20:35.35 | bryjen | 39 players on one server |
| 20:35.43 | jpa- | Aribeth: doesn't -f exclude? |
| 20:35.45 | Erroneous | a server not normally on the list |
| 20:35.49 | Erroneous | sounds fishy to me |
| 20:35.56 | Erroneous | ~bzfquery bzflag.cornishes.net |
| 20:36.14 | Aribeth | not if you have +f good{xx} and/or -s xx |
| 20:36.21 | jpa- | looks fishy :) |
| 20:36.29 | Erroneous | yup, looks fishy |
| 20:36.34 | bryjen | botty |
| 20:37.06 | Aribeth | is outr freind back? |
| 20:37.51 | Erroneous | ~dns bzflag.cornishes.net |
| 20:37.57 | Erroneous | recognize it? |
| 20:38.06 | Aribeth | not off hand |
| 20:38.41 | jpa- | very surprising, leading some admin, mr. brown, with >1000 points |
| 20:39.30 | Aribeth | sounds like the little hack mikeusa was doing |
| 20:39.57 | Grumbler | ~nslookup 66.218.54.83 |
| 20:40.12 | jpa- | lol |
| 20:40.16 | bryjen | hmm, there was a mr.something that brought a handful of bots into my server last night. left prompty when told, tho |
| 20:40.17 | jpa- | i think i crashed the server |
| 20:40.22 | jpa- | i did /idlestats |
| 20:40.37 | *** join/#bzflag jomojo (~jomojo@c-24-17-68-130.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 20:40.38 | jpa- | the leader has 1008-0... |
| 20:40.51 | bryjen | long player or flag lists cause network problems |
| 20:41.21 | bryjen | ah, it was " |
| 20:41.23 | *** join/#bzflag ibunny (~alex@jolie.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 20:41.25 | ibunny | ha! |
| 20:41.45 | bryjen | it was "mr.bill" with the bots last night |
| 20:45.50 | Aribeth | he is getting geno and killing the bots to get the high score |
| 20:46.39 | orchid | Aribeth: what hack was mikeusa doing? |
| 20:46.50 | ibunny | ack that dude |
| 20:47.18 | Aribeth | he had added some code that would give praise for scores of up to 1000 or more |
| 20:47.47 | Aribeth | he got to 1000 with out geno, and without being killed |
| 20:48.52 | Aribeth | he is paused and he is still getting points.. |
| 20:49.02 | orchid | heh |
| 20:49.05 | *** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast007@24-196-92-143.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) |
| 20:49.11 | Aribeth | blatent cheating |
| 20:49.20 | Aribeth | its hacked for sure |
| 20:49.22 | JeffM2501 | I would be the one to ask for what? |
| 20:49.32 | jpa- | lol, bzadmin is crashing |
| 20:50.23 | Aribeth | i think what is happening is every time a lagit player kills a bot Mr. Brown gets points |
| 20:50.48 | Aribeth | and if a bot kills a bot he gets points |
| 20:51.47 | jpa- | did the server crash or is it just me? |
| 20:51.55 | Aribeth | the server is up |
| 20:52.00 | Aribeth | im there now |
| 20:52.05 | JeffM2501 | Erroneous, where do you get this error? |
| 20:52.34 | foo-on-fire | what's the "ambient color" of a material? |
| 20:53.00 | JeffM2501 | the color it is in the ambient lite |
| 20:53.03 | JeffM2501 | light |
| 20:53.04 | blast007 | ambient == "of the surrounding area or environment" |
| 20:53.18 | JeffM2501 | !dict ambient |
| 20:53.20 | TheLastSpartan | JeffM2501: wn, gcide, and moby-thes responded: wn: ambient adj : completely enveloping; "the ambient air"; "ambient sound"; "the ambient temperature"; gcide: Ambient \Am"bi*ent\, n. Something that surrounds or invests; as, air . . . being a perpetual ambient. --Sir H. Wotton. [1913 Webster]; gcide: Ambient \Am"bi*ent\, a. [L. ambiens, p. pr. of ambire to go around; amb- + ire to (2 more messages) |
| 20:53.26 | Erroneous | JeffM2501: hmm? |
| 20:53.34 | JeffM2501 | Erroneous, something about a .prog |
| 20:53.36 | jpa- | hm hm, i'm having 50 milliplayers average on my server :) |
| 20:53.41 | JeffM2501 | I was at lunch |
| 20:53.49 | JeffM2501 | see that I Had some flashys in channel when I got back |
| 20:54.00 | Erroneous | ah. the comment after that said "never mind, I'm an idiot" |
| 20:54.08 | JeffM2501 | oh ok |
| 20:54.17 | Erroneous | it helps to update -P ;) |
| 20:54.20 | Erroneous | err -d |
| 20:54.29 | JeffM2501 | somone also said I may know more about something |
| 20:54.31 | jpa- | Aribeth: ok, then it is just that bzadmin can't handle 40 players |
| 20:54.41 | Aribeth | maybe |
| 20:54.52 | JeffM2501 | oh the obj thing |
| 20:55.14 | JeffM2501 | foo-on-fire, was that you, asking about the object material thing? |
| 20:55.21 | Erroneous | has anyone asked that admin about his, err, tactics? |
| 20:55.23 | JeffM2501 | you all change your names som much |
| 20:55.26 | Grumbler | jpa-, watch where you step, you may crush all those little tanks |
| 20:55.43 | brlcad | that's just wrong |
| 20:55.44 | jpa- | Erroneous: i said to remove the bots, he said to shut up |
| 20:55.50 | Aribeth | i see the bots go nr at times |
| 20:55.57 | jpa- | DTRemenak: and "didn't i ban you?" |
| 20:56.20 | DTRemenak | jpa-: alright. suppose someone who can do something about it should talk to him. |
| 20:56.33 | foo-on-fire | foo-on-fire: no |
| 20:56.40 | Grumbler | it should be a private server at least |
| 20:56.45 | jpa- | i can do something about it, i can pribe DTRemenak :) |
| 20:56.46 | foo-on-fire | foo-on-fire: i don't think so, anyways... :P |
| 20:56.55 | DTRemenak | jpa-: no need to bribe anybody |
| 20:56.59 | JeffM2501 | foo-on-fire, why are you talking to yourself? |
| 20:57.11 | foo-on-fire | darn it |
| 20:57.13 | DTRemenak | using bots to get yourself to the top of the server list is verboten |
| 20:57.16 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, he wanted to pribe you |
| 20:57.17 | foo-on-fire | why does my client keep doing this |
| 20:57.22 | JeffM2501 | I think that inovles a chicken |
| 20:57.27 | foo-on-fire | it's a weird client problem |
| 20:57.30 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: sorry, too much proofreading ;) |
| 20:57.33 | JeffM2501 | foo-on-fire, you lack fung shue |
| 20:57.41 | foo-on-fire | fung shue? |
| 20:57.45 | JeffM2501 | fung shue |
| 20:57.50 | Grumbler | shoe fungus |
| 20:57.52 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 20:57.58 | JeffM2501 | that is something else :) |
| 20:58.04 | Grumbler | smells the same |
| 20:58.05 | foo-on-fire | i'm unaware what fung shue is. |
| 20:58.13 | JeffM2501 | then you lack wang |
| 20:58.31 | bryjen | uhm.. |
| 20:58.31 | Grumbler | didnt know you needed a computer for that |
| 20:58.45 | JeffM2501 | your chi is weak |
| 20:58.53 | JeffM2501 | all computers need wang |
| 20:59.19 | jpa- | DTRemenak: hm, got kicked or just left? |
| 20:59.27 | JeffM2501 | "sure we wang." "...can" "wang" |
| 20:59.30 | DTRemenak | jpa-: rejoined as observer |
| 20:59.36 | jpa- | ah |
| 20:59.37 | Grumbler | wang chung? |
| 20:59.45 | JeffM2501 | everybody have fun tonight |
| 20:59.56 | foo-on-fire | i meant to be taking to you, JeffM2501, when my client made me talk to myself |
| 21:00.05 | jpa- | Aribeth reserved for me! |
| 21:00.12 | JeffM2501 | I figured as much, I'm just messing with you :0 |
| 21:00.12 | Aribeth | was cornishes.net mikeusa? |
| 21:00.15 | Grumbler | foo-on-fire, ah, irc client..... |
| 21:00.25 | jpa- | Aribeth: he was 24. something |
| 21:00.32 | jpa- | newyork etc. |
| 21:00.41 | Grumbler | Aribeth, you are a little paranoid on this mikeusa thing.....does he owe you money? |
| 21:00.42 | foo-on-fire | Grumbler: yes, irc client |
| 21:00.50 | Aribeth | ya, but he could have changed it |
| 21:01.07 | JeffM2501 | but part of it was, http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php?date=2000-09-22&res=l |
| 21:01.17 | foo-on-fire | it does this weird thing in the cvs version that it didn't do before, and keeps making me talk to myself. i better start using the stable version again. :P |
| 21:01.19 | Aribeth | no ;), but im curious |
| 21:02.45 | Aribeth | Grumbler, it just sounds like something he would do |
| 21:02.56 | blast007 | http://bbspot.com/News/2004/07/feng_shui_motherboard.html |
| 21:03.11 | Aribeth | i also cant remember who was running cornish.net |
| 21:03.57 | foo-on-fire | blast007: now that's just weird. :| |
| 21:04.04 | blast007 | :) |
| 21:04.23 | foo-on-fire | heh |
| 21:04.33 | DTRemenak | I'm not getting any response from these people |
| 21:04.50 | jpa- | DTRemenak: is there some other than mr.brown? |
| 21:04.57 | jpa- | mr.brown has been still for some time |
| 21:05.08 | Aribeth | DTR, do you remember who was running cornish.net before? |
| 21:05.11 | DTRemenak | blzh (the bot master) is logged in also |
| 21:05.15 | DTRemenak | Aribeth: nope |
| 21:05.22 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (~CBG@cpc2-stme1-5-1-cust173.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 21:05.32 | jpa- | ~logs |
| 21:05.32 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, logs is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/, or stats http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/bzflag.html.gz |
| 21:05.37 | bryjen | hehe. botmaster |
| 21:05.54 | Aribeth | i wonder if it was blzh, or mikeusa |
| 21:06.14 | Aribeth | it might be blzh then |
| 21:06.31 | Aribeth | i vaugly remember something like that |
| 21:08.10 | JeffM2501 | does it really mater who it is? |
| 21:08.25 | Grumbler | blast007, i like the statement at the end |
| 21:08.44 | blast007 | hehe |
| 21:08.50 | Aribeth | no. just that mikeusa had added code to give praise for scores up to 1000 + |
| 21:09.09 | JeffM2501 | ok |
| 21:09.13 | JeffM2501 | whopy do |
| 21:09.30 | JeffM2501 | damn I can't belive I spelled whopty wrong |
| 21:09.37 | JeffM2501 | I am a failure as a human :( |
| 21:09.49 | DTRemenak | neither of them are globally registered either |
| 21:09.53 | JeffM2501 | that's her progitive :) |
| 21:09.53 | jpa- | JeffM2501: you'll make a good love-toy for jpa |
| 21:10.05 | Aribeth | only when im threatened directly by them |
| 21:10.06 | JeffM2501 | jpa-, wtf? |
| 21:10.08 | DTRemenak | not registered, not responding. bye-bye. |
| 21:10.09 | blast007 | lol |
| 21:10.12 | jpa- | JeffM2501: the server doesn't seem to support global registering anyway.. |
| 21:10.22 | Aribeth | or i feel the need to |
| 21:10.24 | JeffM2501 | jpa-, so why go there? |
| 21:11.01 | jpa- | for pure curiousity? |
| 21:11.13 | JeffM2501 | what ever floats your boat |
| 21:11.25 | Grumbler | Aribeth, .....or you just wake up ticked off.........i know i do that from time to time......... :) |
| 21:11.29 | Aribeth | paybacks a ... |
| 21:11.39 | JeffM2501 | payback is a giant panda |
| 21:11.40 | DTRemenak | jpa-: it does support global reg. I get a + there. |
| 21:11.43 | Aribeth | old Marine habbits :P |
| 21:11.57 | jpa- | DTRemenak: hmm, maybe it was just too loaded to handle mine |
| 21:12.19 | JeffM2501 | why is he still talking^^? |
| 21:12.44 | jpa- | me? |
| 21:12.47 | jpa- | why not? |
| 21:12.55 | JeffM2501 | why not not? |
| 21:13.23 | jpa- | bah |
| 21:13.32 | JeffM2501 | victory! |
| 21:13.46 | bryjen | http://www.pvponline.com/archive.php3?archive=20050629 |
| 21:13.58 | jpa- | can just as well be silent if the mr. JeffM2501 wants me to be.. |
| 21:14.00 | JeffM2501 | that was the best panda EVAR |
| 21:14.26 | JeffM2501 | should be on the side of a tank -->>>> http://www.pvponline.com/images/news/panda-attack.jpg |
| 21:15.54 | Aribeth | i like my old squadren patch. a dragon holding a plane in one hand and a lightning bolt in the other |
| 21:16.10 | JeffM2501 | a true panda master could beat a dragon |
| 21:16.20 | Aribeth | i duno |
| 21:16.35 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 21:17.01 | Tupone | DTRemenak: have you noticed some jittery with new version ? |
| 21:17.08 | DTRemenak | Tupone: nope |
| 21:17.37 | Tupone | cause I tested here with my bad connection, and get only one "2.0.0 linux" with jitter |
| 21:17.46 | Tupone | hope the issue is gone |
| 21:18.15 | Tupone | dunno if I/we have done something from 2.0.0 |
| 21:18.55 | Grumbler | b12 was jittery, b11 and b13 werent.....then again, it is probably just me grumbling |
| 21:18.55 | JeffM2501 | Aribeth, that is why the dragon would fall to the panda, the panda knows ;) |
| 21:19.09 | JeffM2501 | that is if we are talking about fictional kung fu universes |
| 21:19.28 | JeffM2501 | in the real wold the panda woudl win as well because a dragon is a fictonal character :) |
| 21:19.33 | Aribeth | im talking Marines |
| 21:19.52 | Tupone | Grumbler: jitters you see depends on the other players. Had you noticed or other had |
| 21:19.55 | JeffM2501 | so there is no giant panda marine platoon? |
| 21:20.03 | Aribeth | nope |
| 21:20.10 | JeffM2501 | I call that discrimination |
| 21:20.26 | Aribeth | nope, just never formed one |
| 21:20.32 | JeffM2501 | gonna have to call P.F.A.R.T.O.G.P. |
| 21:20.34 | JeffM2501 | on that one |
| 21:20.35 | Grumbler | Tupone, jitters i see, i dont think anybody else noticed........although i did feel hunted |
| 21:20.36 | Tupone | depends on your client too |
| 21:21.11 | Aribeth | jeffM2501, lol |
| 21:21.12 | JeffM2501 | maybe they have a panda squad on some other world |
| 21:21.14 | Grumbler | win client, and its not the hardware |
| 21:21.26 | JeffM2501 | to them it is a fearsom beast of battle, and bambo eating |
| 21:21.27 | Tupone | could be you get some remote laggy window player |
| 21:21.37 | Aribeth | they have a black sheep squadren |
| 21:21.43 | JeffM2501 | koola bears can be quite feirce if provoked as well |
| 21:21.44 | Aribeth | VMF-214 |
| 21:21.48 | JeffM2501 | who fears sheep? |
| 21:21.58 | JeffM2501 | thats like fearing a chicken |
| 21:22.04 | Aribeth | i would fear those sheep |
| 21:22.23 | JeffM2501 | come at them with a loom, they run in fear |
| 21:22.32 | blast007 | lol |
| 21:22.33 | Grumbler | Tupone, could be, it arrived in b12, but left for before i had a chance to fully narrow it down.........but when i switched back to b11, it was gone |
| 21:22.51 | Aribeth | and take away the panda's bamboo and they are ruined |
| 21:22.55 | Aribeth | :P |
| 21:23.22 | Grumbler | b13 has yet to show any similar lag/jitter |
| 21:23.42 | DTRemenak | Grumbler: what about b14? |
| 21:23.49 | Tupone | Grumbler: if that happen again, a clientquery will be helpful |
| 21:24.38 | Grumbler | Tupone, it was all mixed on the server, so i couldnt narrow it down......although there were some old 2.0.2 clients |
| 21:25.26 | Grumbler | DTRemenak, havent gotten that far......is that version that allows me to kill all the WG tanks :) |
| 21:25.28 | Tupone | I see a tank with 2.0.0 that had problem, 2.0.2 ok to me |
| 21:26.06 | Tupone | just killing birdie is enough |
| 21:26.10 | DTRemenak | Grumbler: servers running b25 have less wings-friendly default settings |
| 21:26.14 | DTRemenak | errr b14 even |
| 21:26.29 | Grumbler | whoa b25 bombers |
| 21:26.45 | trepan | DTRemenak: premonition? |
| 21:26.53 | DTRemenak | trepan: could say that :) |
| 21:27.15 | DTRemenak | Grumbler: the b-14 was a later revision of the b-10 iirc |
| 21:28.01 | Grumbler | ...for testing |
| 21:28.02 | DTRemenak | ah, yeah http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-14 |
| 21:29.17 | Grumbler | ....all we need is for the tanks to morph into something like that.........be worth it just to watch the morph action |
| 21:29.33 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 21:30.43 | Grumbler | ...now i suppose with all the wing setting available you could set up a server so that the tanks had similar physics to a plane............ |
| 21:30.54 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03atupone * 10bzflag/ChangeLog: Changes |
| 21:31.25 | Grumbler | strafing runs would be wicked |
| 21:31.29 | bm | i've just finished a patch that adds wings to the tank model... |
| 21:32.35 | Grumbler | bm is it just visual, or does the "hit" area account for the wings |
| 21:33.03 | bm | just visual. |
| 21:33.10 | Grumbler | pics? |
| 21:34.08 | JeffM2501 | why does that seem like an oxymoron |
| 21:34.14 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10bzflag/plugins/bzAPI.txt: |
| 21:34.14 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: mention .net 2k5 express beta. |
| 21:34.14 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: mention that header and libs are in windows bins |
| 21:34.14 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: change refs of std:;string to bzAPIString |
| 21:34.26 | bm | yeah got some screens. i havent a got a place to put them at the moment. |
| 21:35.06 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (~timr@TimRiker.bronze.supporter.pdpc) |
| 21:35.06 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 21:36.08 | blast007 | bm: http://www.imageshack.us/ |
| 21:36.41 | orchid | or the forum |
| 21:38.20 | *** join/#bzflag |zongo| (~zongo@84-72-40-59.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 21:38.26 | SportyGal | orchid: wow! hi, long time no see/talk |
| 21:38.31 | ToughShooter | ~dict oxymoron |
| 21:38.39 | orchid | he SportyGal :-) |
| 21:38.41 | *** part/#bzflag ibunny (~alex@jolie.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 21:38.58 | SportyGal | orchid: SHE SportyGal :) |
| 21:39.21 | orchid | lol oops |
| 21:39.33 | orchid | s/he/hi/ |
| 21:40.03 | SportyGal | :) |
| 21:40.11 | bm | http://img213.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bzfi00007np.png |
| 21:41.07 | orchid | looks pretty good to me |
| 21:41.13 | blast007 | cool :) |
| 21:41.43 | ToughShooter | Do they flap, too? |
| 21:41.52 | *** join/#bzflag RPG_ (~G-bus@c-24-15-87-171.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 21:42.14 | RPG_ | hi |
| 21:42.19 | blast007 | hi RPG_ |
| 21:42.43 | RPG_ | i noticed in the pluigin API, you can retrieve a player's callsgin and team, but you cannot retrive his e-mail |
| 21:42.53 | RPG_ | i'm looking at BZF_API bz_PlayerRecord * bz_getPlayerByIndex ( int index ) |
| 21:42.54 | SportyGal | oooo grumbler: I haven't been watching much today, but adding hit radius to account for the wings might be a way to make them slightly more vulnerable :) |
| 22:05.30 | *** part/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@63.147.94.151) |
| 22:06.55 | *** join/#bzflag zoly (~zoly@p549DC5EE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:07.04 | zoly | g'day |
| 22:07.27 | zoly | is there anything known about incompatible client which crash the 2.0.2 bzflag server ? |
| 22:07.53 | zoly | happened 3 times today that the server segfaulted shortly after the same person logged on |
| 22:08.53 | zoly | last two times within 5 minutes |
| 22:09.09 | Aribeth | duno |
| 22:09.49 | zoly | i've firewalled that ip address now |
| 22:10.18 | zoly | but i don't like to do that as the person is very unlikely to cause harm intentionally |
| 22:12.37 | zoly | pattern was 3 time the same. player logs in, shortly later connection from webchat.bzflag.bz (69.28.129.166), and that's the last thing logged |
| 22:13.05 | zoly | "Segmentation fault" |
| 22:13.25 | blast007 | that would be the list server joining, to see if the server is running |
| 22:13.57 | blast007 | occurs when the server sends the ADD message |
| 22:14.40 | zoly | 69.28.129.166 connects periodically, probably to update the list of players. |
| 22:15.30 | blast007 | ah yeah, the my.bzflag.org site connects every 5 minutes, iirc |
| 22:16.17 | blast007 | but yeah, I don't think there is a known issue |
| 22:17.10 | zoly | i try to contact that player on the forum, to find out what client he uses |
| 22:20.08 | blast007 | it's not a player |
| 22:20.17 | blast007 | it's the list server |
| 22:21.08 | blast007 | ah, I see |
| 22:21.19 | blast007 | a certain player joins, then the webchat thing joins |
| 22:21.54 | blast007 | the webchat is joining because the server sends an ADD message to the list server, to update the player count on the list |
| 22:23.09 | trepan | zoly: OS? could you run the server in a debugger? |
| 22:26.28 | RPG_ | could someone check out this code and see if it looks right? |
| 22:26.28 | RPG_ | http://pastebin.com/328787 |
| 22:26.34 | RPG_ | for a plugin |
| 22:27.49 | JeffM2501 | no spaces in a custom slash command |
| 22:27.57 | RPG_ | oh |
| 22:27.58 | JeffM2501 | you want to register 1 / command |
| 22:28.00 | JeffM2501 | called match |
| 22:28.09 | JeffM2501 | and then do difrent stuff based on if the paramater is start or end |
| 22:28.20 | JeffM2501 | or take the space out |
| 22:28.26 | JeffM2501 | and make it like match_start |
| 22:28.33 | RPG_ | that looks good |
| 22:29.21 | RPG_ | if I register "match", and "match_start", if somebody types "match_start", will it take that as "match" or "match_start"? |
| 22:29.31 | JeffM2501 | match_start |
| 22:29.34 | RPG_ | ok |
| 22:29.36 | JeffM2501 | that's what the word is |
| 22:29.45 | JeffM2501 | "match" != "match_start" |
| 22:29.54 | JeffM2501 | it does a full word match on the first word |
| 22:29.57 | RPG_ | i had problems making my patch, i told it to match "report match", but it was matching "report" instead |
| 22:29.59 | JeffM2501 | case insenstive |
| 22:30.02 | RPG_ | ahh |
| 22:30.11 | JeffM2501 | that is because you wernt' using my cool API :) |
| 22:30.35 | JeffM2501 | the "command" part of a / command is the first word |
| 22:30.43 | JeffM2501 | aka the text up to the first whitespace |
| 22:31.01 | JeffM2501 | adding a command for /report match is invalid because there is allready /report |
| 22:31.06 | JeffM2501 | and they both have the same command |
| 22:31.31 | JeffM2501 | what if the person typed /report match is too short |
| 22:31.38 | JeffM2501 | how wold it know what command to send it to? |
| 22:31.52 | RPG_ | that's why i got rid of that command |
| 22:32.03 | RPG_ | replaced it with /match_end |
| 22:32.03 | JeffM2501 | because the command is invalid |
| 22:32.09 | JeffM2501 | you could make it /reportmatch |
| 22:32.54 | RPG_ | i think i found a bug in the API |
| 22:33.18 | RPG_ | when you type /loadplugin <plugin> in BZFS, it will always tell you "Plug-inLoaded", regardless if it was loaded or if it was an invalid plugin name |
| 22:33.35 | JeffM2501 | that would be a bug then |
| 22:33.42 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10bzflag/plugins/bzAPI.txt: fill in more info on general plugin function, custom data types, and mor events. |
| 22:34.27 | JeffM2501 | ahh I don't have a return code |
| 22:34.28 | RPG_ | when I load the plugin, and type /match, /match_start, and /match_end, it always says "invalid command" |
| 22:34.52 | RPG_ | the dll file "raceToSeven.dll" is in the BZFlag directory alongside BZFS |
| 22:35.01 | RPG_ | and I type /loadplugin raceToSeven before I start |
| 22:35.19 | JeffM2501 | why don't you make it part of the config? |
| 22:35.37 | JeffM2501 | turn on debug level 4 and make sure you are geting inited |
| 22:35.44 | RPG_ | ok |
| 22:35.49 | JeffM2501 | or set a break point in your pluing and make sure it's all geting registerd properly |
| 22:35.55 | RPG_ | i'm not using a config; just command-line |
| 22:36.01 | JeffM2501 | same thing |
| 22:36.04 | JeffM2501 | config IS command line |
| 22:36.28 | SportyGal | ~Aribeth++ |
| 22:36.55 | RPG_ | BZFS: Plugin:raceToSeven found but expects an older API version (2), upgrade it |
| 22:38.20 | JeffM2501 | the header you are using is wrong then |
| 22:38.23 | JeffM2501 | for your bzfs version |
| 22:38.53 | RPG_ | hmm |
| 22:38.54 | RPG_ | i'll CVS |
| 22:38.59 | JeffM2501 | what header are you using |
| 22:39.12 | RPG_ | #include "bzfsAPI.h" |
| 22:39.12 | RPG_ | #include "TextUtils.h" |
| 22:40.52 | Pimpinella | it's the plugin, thats build against an old version |
| 22:41.13 | RPG_ | BZFS is the b13 version |
| 22:41.17 | Pimpinella | you need an older version of bzfs or an newer of the plugin |
| 22:41.26 | JeffM2501 | in the api header |
| 22:41.40 | Pimpinella | build against current bzfsAPI.h |
| 22:41.45 | RPG_ | I am |
| 22:41.46 | JeffM2501 | what does |
| 22:41.47 | JeffM2501 | #define BZ_API_VERSION |
| 22:41.48 | JeffM2501 | say? |
| 22:41.55 | JeffM2501 | it should be 5 |
| 22:42.05 | RPG_ | it's not there |
| 22:42.08 | RPG_ | it says |
| 22:42.08 | RPG_ | BZ_GET_PLUGIN_VERSION |
| 22:42.08 | RPG_ | instead |
| 22:42.13 | JeffM2501 | above that |
| 22:42.22 | blast007 | in bzfsAPI.h |
| 22:42.25 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 22:42.28 | RPG_ | oh |
| 22:42.30 | JeffM2501 | #define BZ_API_VERSION5 |
| 22:42.31 | JeffM2501 | #define BZ_GET_PLUGIN_VERSION BZF_PLUGIN_CALL int bz_GetVersion ( void ) { return BZ_API_VERSION;} |
| 22:42.34 | JeffM2501 | is it 5? |
| 22:43.12 | RPG_ | yes it's 5 |
| 22:43.30 | JeffM2501 | did you copy the project from an existing pluing? |
| 22:43.32 | RPG_ | yes |
| 22:43.33 | JeffM2501 | or make a new project? |
| 22:43.39 | RPG_ | copied it from scorereset |
| 22:43.41 | JeffM2501 | do you have the .def file? |
| 22:43.44 | RPG_ | yes |
| 22:43.53 | JeffM2501 | in the .def does it have bz_GetVersion |
| 22:44.00 | RPG_ | yes |
| 22:44.06 | JeffM2501 | wierdness |
| 22:44.15 | JeffM2501 | send me your entire project dir |
| 22:44.19 | RPG_ | i noticed that the playHistoryTracker plugin didn't work either |
| 22:44.20 | RPG_ | ok |
| 22:44.21 | RPG_ | e-mail? |
| 22:44.24 | JeffM2501 | sure |
| 22:44.28 | RPG_ | address? |
| 22:44.28 | JeffM2501 | same as before |
| 22:44.34 | RPG_ | right |
| 22:44.35 | JeffM2501 | check your sent items :) |
| 22:44.56 | JeffM2501 | play history tracker was busted rectly |
| 22:45.07 | RPG_ | 987KB zip file |
| 22:46.34 | RPG_ | sento |
| 22:46.51 | RPG_ | hey DTRemenak made it to op! |
| 22:47.05 | RPG_ | cya, ride's here |
| 22:47.06 | *** part/#bzflag RPG_ (~G-bus@c-24-15-87-171.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 22:49.51 | JeffM2501 | he dosn't even HAVE the header |
| 22:49.54 | JeffM2501 | wtf |
| 22:51.40 | blast007 | the other plugins don't either |
| 22:51.47 | blast007 | they have it in the include path: ../../include; ../../win32/vc71/ |
| 22:52.02 | JeffM2501 | I know |
| 22:52.06 | JeffM2501 | but his path isn't even set right |
| 22:52.12 | blast007 | heh |
| 22:59.00 | creeperz | !weather 57350 |
| 22:59.02 | TheLastSpartan | creeperz: The current temperature in Huron, South Dakota (57350) is 76°F (5:55 PM CDT on August 03, 2005). Conditions: Heavy Thunderstorm Rain Mist. Humidity: 91%. Dew Point: 73°F. Wind: WNW at 10 mph (17 km/h). Pressure: 29.91 in (1013 hPa). Visibility: 1.0 miles (1.6 kilometers). UV: 1 out of 16 |
| 22:59.23 | AHappyCow | !weather 30040 |
| 22:59.25 | TheLastSpartan | AHappyCow: The current temperature in Cumming, Georgia (30040) is 90°F (6:50 PM EDT on August 03, 2005). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 54%. Dew Point: 68°F. UV: 2 out of 16 |
| 22:59.27 | creeperz | oh, its raining huh? |
| 22:59.44 | creeperz | so that giant BANG that broke my window must have been thunder then, huh? |
| 22:59.58 | AHappyCow | could be |
| 23:00.29 | creeperz | you know what? |
| 23:00.33 | creeperz | that very well could be |
| 23:00.39 | creeperz | http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/253824 |
| 23:01.20 | SportyGal | !weather 90277 |
| 23:01.22 | TheLastSpartan | SportyGal: The current temperature in Redondo Beach, California (90277) is 75°F (3:47 PM PDT on August 03, 2005). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 65%. Dew Point: 63°F. Wind: WNW at 16 mph (26 km/h). Pressure: 29.93 in (1013 hPa). Visibility: 10.0 miles (16.1 kilometers). UV: 6 out of 16 |
| 23:05.03 | JeffM2501 | wierd his plugin dosn't work, but shockwaveDeath works fine |
| 23:05.48 | zoly | trepan: linux 2.4.27. yes, could do. i'd still need to contact that player for testing,. |
| 23:06.22 | *** join/#bzflag CVirus (~ZVirus@82.201.178.57) |
| 23:06.25 | *** part/#bzflag CVirus (~ZVirus@82.201.178.57) |
| 23:14.15 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: amazing the stuff you find out when someone ELSE actually starts using your code, eh? |
| 23:14.27 | JeffM2501 | his project got jacked somehow |
| 23:15.03 | JeffM2501 | I take his code and put it into a copy of SWDeath and it's fine |
| 23:15.16 | trepan | DTRemenak: like busted tex D/L caching on windows, months later... ;) |
| 23:15.27 | DTRemenak | trepan: yeah, like that :) |
| 23:16.15 | JeffM2501 | I think he had some exports still set as the name of the project he started with |
| 23:16.18 | JeffM2501 | and it was "wonkey" |
| 23:18.32 | JeffM2501 | I'd like to make a VC "new plugin" project type |
| 23:18.34 | JeffM2501 | that'd be cool |
| 23:19.03 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 23:19.18 | JeffM2501 | we did it in VC6 for some of our stuff, I just don't know how to do it in VC7 |
| 23:19.30 | JeffM2501 | appwizards used to be realy easy |
| 23:19.47 | JeffM2501 | just provide a sample project, and tell it what to replace with what, and it woudl take care of it all |
| 23:26.28 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, there a batfile way to do a search and replace in a file? |
| 23:26.52 | *** join/#bzflag wizart (~wizart@dsl-084-058-144-223.arcor-ip.net) |
| 23:27.20 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10bzflag/plugins/SAMPLE_PLUGIN/ (6 files): provide a template project for use in new plugin creation |
| 23:27.41 | DTRemenak | nope, not that I can think of |
| 23:27.58 | JeffM2501 | ok |
| 23:28.06 | JeffM2501 | then I'll just provide instructions |
| 23:28.24 | DTRemenak | could do it with vbscript ;) |
| 23:28.24 | JeffM2501 | that project is basicly a plugin template |
| 23:28.44 | JeffM2501 | all they have to do is replace the term SAMPLE_PLUGIN with there plugin name, in the filenames and the contents |
| 23:28.46 | JeffM2501 | and it'll be cool |
| 23:28.53 | JeffM2501 | can you make a vb script executable? |
| 23:29.34 | DTRemenak | .vbs is marked executable by explorer, yeah |
| 23:29.43 | DTRemenak | that's why so many viruses use it to spread ;) |
| 23:29.47 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 23:29.49 | blast007 | hehe ;) |
| 23:30.59 | JeffM2501 | wonder if we could do it with a web thing |
| 23:31.04 | JeffM2501 | that would make the files |
| 23:31.09 | JeffM2501 | and send you a zip :) |
| 23:31.33 | JeffM2501 | we could make a script file for nix |
| 23:34.06 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10bzflag/plugins/bzAPI.txt: add instructions on how to make a new plugin from the template |
| 23:35.01 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (~CBG@cpc2-stme1-5-1-cust173.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 23:35.01 | *** join/#bzflag Gnurdux (~gnurdux@69.251.224.96) |
| 23:35.21 | Gnurdux | does anyone know where to get the latest bzflag for Ubuntu Hoary? its WAY behind and a friend need s it |
| 23:35.49 | blast007 | JeffM2501: as for making an archive with PHP: http://pear.php.net/package/File_Archive |
| 23:35.59 | orchid | !seen ep |
| 23:36.00 | TheLastSpartan | orchid: ep was last seen here 5 weeks, 0 days, 6 hours, 4 minutes, and 12 seconds ago saying: <ep> apt-remove 1.10 first? |
| 23:36.11 | Gnurdux | oh and the sarhge package didnt work |
| 23:36.46 | blast007 | Gnurdux: worst case, couldn't they just download the source and compile it? |
| 23:37.07 | JeffM2501 | somone makes an ubanutu binary? |
| 23:37.25 | orchid | ep got got 2.0 for ubuntu somewhere |
| 23:37.45 | JeffM2501 | fun fun |
| 23:37.57 | JeffM2501 | blast007, I'd rather not do it that way, but I guess if we must |
| 23:38.12 | blast007 | :) |
| 23:38.47 | blast007 | if it's just one file, it could just write it out, and they could copy and paste |
| 23:38.59 | Gnurdux | i suppose |
| 23:39.10 | Gnurdux | but it is their first day on linux ;) |
| 23:39.20 | blast007 | Gnurdux: ah |
| 23:39.44 | Gnurdux | i gave him my sarge package |
| 23:39.52 | Gnurdux | but various deps were outdated |
| 23:39.58 | Gnurdux | since sarge came out after hoary |
| 23:41.10 | *** join/#bzflag triclops (~triclops@c220-239-40-45.rivrw7.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 23:41.34 | blast007 | http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=262251&postcount=3 |
| 23:42.00 | blast007 | which links to http://packages.debian.org/unstable/games/bzflag |
| 23:42.04 | Gnurdux | yes... |
| 23:42.10 | Gnurdux | but even the SARGE package is too new |
| 23:42.14 | Gnurdux | like i said |
| 23:42.24 | Gnurdux | it even says there it needs a newer libcurl |
| 23:42.34 | blast007 | then get a newer libcurl :) |
| 23:43.11 | blast007 | dependencies are listed on that page |
| 23:44.50 | Gnurdux | i foudnd the backport |
| 23:44.55 | Gnurdux | so no prob :) |
| 23:44.58 | Gnurdux | google is my friend :) |
| 23:45.00 | *** part/#bzflag Gnurdux (~gnurdux@69.251.224.96) |
| 23:56.11 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, ping |
| 23:56.52 | JeffM2501 | or anyone who cares to comment |
| 23:56.53 | JeffM2501 | http://myth.gibbscam.com/temp/doc/ |
| 23:58.41 | purple_cow | JeffM2501: you can't spell! |
| 23:58.43 | purple_cow | ;) |
