| 02:39.01 | *** join/#bzflag ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 02:39.01 | *** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org/ || http://my.BZFlag.org/bb/ || http://my.BZFlag.org/ || http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag || http://BZFlag.org/wiki/GettingHelp || http://BZFlag.org/wiki/Download || http://bzflag.org/wiki/MapMaking |
| 02:39.01 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 02:39.41 | Newb | I tried copying gl.h to ./include/GL and that didn't help |
| 02:39.46 | rkr | Well...are you building by hand, using a source package system, doing a CVS checkout, building a release... |
| 02:40.32 | Newb | I downloaded the source with config script. |
| 02:40.33 | Newb | This happens then I run ./configure |
| 02:40.37 | Newb | *when |
| 02:40.43 | rkr | (I can't answer authoritatively, as I use a package system to build bzflag, and don't use GNU/LINUX much...but I'm running a BSD and am somewhat familiar with the issues...) |
| 02:41.14 | rkr | You mean you downloaded the source tarballs which already had the ./configure script? Or do you mean that you used some unspecified "config script" to download the sources? |
| 02:41.34 | Newb | Well, if youcan tell me where to DL BZFlag rpms for FC3 that would be good enough for me |
| 02:42.00 | Newb | I mean that I DL'd the source tarball with the script already in it |
| 02:42.13 | rkr | I would have no idea about that. I don't do GNU/LINUX. I'm a BSD person. (^& No RPMs on my system. (^& |
| 02:42.16 | rkr | Okay. |
| 02:42.27 | rkr | And ./configure complains that it can't find gl.h? |
| 02:42.32 | Newb | yes |
| 02:42.42 | rkr | And it is already in /usr/include/GL/gl.h? |
| 02:42.52 | Newb | I even tried readin the script myself, but it' sover 8000 lines |
| 02:42.54 | Newb | Yes |
| 02:43.14 | rkr | Heh. ./configure scripts are not meant to be read, as far as I'm concerned. |
| 02:43.33 | rkr | Okay. Try running autogen.sh (if they included that in the source archive). |
| 02:44.05 | rkr | (I can't remember if it's in there...) |
| 02:44.25 | DTRemenak | Newb, http://heidelberg.freshrpms.net/rpm.html?id=1195 has FC3 rpms for 2.0.2 |
| 02:44.26 | Newb | [root@localhost bzflag-2.0.2.20050318]# ./autogen.sh./autogen.sh: line 4: aclocal: command not found |
| 02:44.37 | rkr | It probably should not be necessary, but you can always re-extract the archive to get back to where you are, so no harm in running autogen.sh... |
| 02:44.38 | rkr | Ah. |
| 02:44.46 | rkr | Okay, there's your RPMs. |
| 02:44.58 | DTRemenak | you're probably missing a lot of dev packages to build it...if you'd still like assistance building it I can probably help |
| 02:45.12 | Newb | Thanks :-) |
| 02:45.17 | Newb | I'll get thos rpms |
| 02:45.23 | Newb | What version do I want? |
| 02:45.48 | DTRemenak | on that page there should be a link that says "RPM file"...that's the one you want |
| 02:45.49 | rkr | (But missing packages shouldn't cause OpenGL headers to not be found...should it?) |
| 02:46.18 | DTRemenak | rkr, yeah, it's actually an AC_TRY_LINK |
| 02:46.31 | DTRemenak | so if you're missing mesa_dev or similar it won't work |
| 02:47.05 | *** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast007@24-196-92-143.jvl.wi.charter.com) |
| 02:47.31 | rkr | I'm not sure what "mesa_dev" is. A version of Mesa/OpenGL should be included with the X server, these days, unless FC is really stripped down. Even NetBSD includes OpenGL with the base system... |
| 02:47.50 | DTRemenak | binaries |
| 02:48.08 | Newb | well rpm didn't give me an errors |
| 02:48.13 | DTRemenak | rkr: you need the _dev package to link properly |
| 02:48.21 | purple_cow | not link, compile |
| 02:48.24 | DTRemenak | Newb, that's a good sign |
| 02:48.31 | Newb | what do I run? |
| 02:48.36 | Newb | And doe sit have ot run in X? |
| 02:48.38 | DTRemenak | purple_cow, sometimes you end up with headers but not libs |
| 02:48.40 | purple_cow | a runtime package contains libraries, -dev has the headers & developer docs |
| 02:48.49 | purple_cow | DTRemenak: um |
| 02:48.56 | purple_cow | that makes no sense ;) |
| 02:48.59 | rkr | "binaries" == "libraries"? If you don't have OpenGL libraries installed in the base system, you don't have OpenGL. And if you have the libraries without the headers, you have a pretty crippled system... |
| 02:49.17 | rkr | Ah, thanks, Purple_cow. |
| 02:49.22 | purple_cow | you don't need the headers if you're just running stuff |
| 02:49.32 | rkr | That's true, but you can't do much if you can't compile anything. (^& |
| 02:50.01 | Newb | Could not set Video Mode: Couldn't find matching GLX visual. |
| 02:50.19 | rkr | (Though I guess you can install systems without development support. I always throw on the whole enchilada. It's only about 100MB or so...) |
| 02:50.22 | Newb | Does the mean that I have to configure X to use my new gl settings? |
| 02:50.32 | DTRemenak | purple_cow, there have been a number of cases with mesa specifically where the header is obviously present but it won't link until the -dev package is installed. I don't know why, I've never looked into it. |
| 02:50.57 | Newb | I installed the gl drviers fro my vidcard, but didn't change the XF86 config yet |
| 02:51.42 | rkr | Newb: Suggest you either get the RPMs that were pointed out, or else go to your LINUX installation and make sure that it's fully equipped for development/programming. |
| 02:52.05 | DTRemenak | Newb, make sure you've followed all of the instructions for installing your gl drivers. assuming the person who built the rpms built with SDL, it should never try to select a mode that it's not capable of. |
| 02:52.09 | Newb | I got and installed the BZFlag rpm. it worked |
| 02:52.47 | Newb | I got my gl install package from Nvidia, because I have a GeForce3 |
| 02:53.05 | DTRemenak | if you're sure that's all done properly, then try running bzflag -window |
| 02:53.11 | Newb | but I didn't change the X config to use it yet |
| 02:53.21 | DTRemenak | ah, definately do that |
| 02:55.01 | trepan | rkr: your ridiculous 'complex map' causes no crashes over here, it's either OS/build related or you simply ran out of memory |
| 02:55.41 | purple_cow | heh |
| 02:55.45 | DTRemenak | same here |
| 02:55.54 | DTRemenak | I played around on it for a while with no problems |
| 02:56.01 | rkr | I figured it was a memory allocation failure. Did I say it was not? |
| 02:56.04 | DTRemenak | other than a very low framerate |
| 02:56.08 | rkr | It stil lshouldn't crash. |
| 02:56.30 | purple_cow | rkr: if your kernel performs an OOM kill, there's not much you can do to avoid it |
| 02:56.33 | trepan | 160fps, radar disabled, looking away from the center junk :) |
| 02:56.42 | rkr | Not checking allocations is "ridiculous". |
| 02:56.48 | DTRemenak | yeah, what about looking towards it :) |
| 02:57.13 | rkr | As far as I know, the kernel never kills you for that. It just returns NULL if there is insufficient memory. Programs that don't check that will blow up when they dereference a NULL pointer. |
| 02:57.37 | purple_cow | most kernels i know will kill whatever's using the most memory if you run out |
| 02:57.51 | rkr | LINUX does that. Horrible tactic. |
| 02:57.58 | purple_cow | no, it makes a lot of sense |
| 02:58.17 | rkr | Not really, since well-written programs can't defend against crashes. |
| 02:58.46 | purple_cow | if you're completely out of virtual memory, what happens when an interrupt handler needs a few bytes? |
| 02:58.54 | rkr | In any case, if you theorize that the OS is crashing the program that way, I can easily check by writing a malloc()ing program... |
| 02:59.06 | purple_cow | suddenly the *machine* crashes instead of whatever program is sucking up memory |
| 02:59.17 | rkr | Well, you would expect the OS would reserve some memory for itself, wouldn't you? Much as there's a reserve of disk space on partitions for super user use? |
| 03:00.07 | purple_cow | rkr: ok, let me rephrase. if you want to add a bunch of checks to bzflag for memory allocation issues, patches welcome |
| 03:00.37 | purple_cow | i seriously doubt it's an issue anybody wants to spend their time on, since there are probably thousands of places where allocations are performed |
| 03:01.10 | rkr | #include <stdlib.h> |
| 03:01.10 | rkr | #include <stdio.h> |
| 03:01.10 | rkr | int main (int argc, char **argv) |
| 03:01.10 | rkr | { |
| 03:01.10 | rkr | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:01.10 | rkr | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:01.12 | rkr | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:01.14 | rkr | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:01.16 | rkr | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:01.18 | rkr | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:01.20 | rkr | } |
| 03:01.22 | rkr | gcc t.c./a.out |
| 03:01.24 | rkr | Safely exiting when VM is exhausted. |
| 03:01.35 | purple_cow | you know, i am *so* glad that you pasted all that |
| 03:01.36 | rkr | So, your theory that the OS crashed the program is bogus. |
| 03:02.02 | rkr | Well, there was mis-information being spread. |
| 03:02.25 | purple_cow | all that proves is that an allocation will fail if the kernel can't find room for it |
| 03:02.41 | purple_cow | it doesn't explain at all what the kernel does if your virtual memory is full |
| 03:03.20 | rkr | If malloc() can't return, it should fail. What is so complicated about that? |
| 03:03.35 | DTRemenak | root@dtremenak:~# ./a.out |
| 03:03.37 | DTRemenak | Safely exiting when VM is exhausted. |
| 03:03.37 | rkr | (Sorry, if it can't return new memory, it should fail with a NULL ptr.) |
| 03:03.42 | DTRemenak | that on a linux-2.4 system |
| 03:04.31 | rkr | So, bzflag got a NULL pointer back from a memory allocation and proceeded to dereference. |
| 03:04.58 | trepan | could do preload hook on the alloc()s, but for c++ 'new'? |
| 03:05.16 | rkr | I believe you can overload operator new... |
| 03:05.25 | trepan | ew, someone +'ed me |
| 03:05.27 | purple_cow | rkr: can't really overload on bulit-in types |
| 03:05.55 | purple_cow | trepan: you can check whether new returns NULL too |
| 03:06.00 | trepan | either way, checking for each allocation at this point in the game is unreasonable |
| 03:06.17 | rkr | Ah. And you do a lot of individual allocations of built-ins? |
| 03:06.24 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~jeffm@JeffM2501.sustaining.supporter.pdpc) |
| 03:06.24 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 03:06.34 | rkr | (shrug) |
| 03:06.44 | purple_cow | rkr: new is also used to allocate arrays |
| 03:06.54 | rkr | Okay, fixing the bug is unreasonable. That's better than saying that it's not a bug, at least. |
| 03:07.13 | purple_cow | i'm inclined to say that your machine not having enough memory to run your map is not our bug, yes |
| 03:08.22 | purple_cow | it's something that can be checked for, but that doesn't make it a bug |
| 03:08.40 | rkr | So if you fopen() a file for write access, don't check it for failure, and the file exists and you're not privileged to write it...that's not a bug? |
| 03:08.42 | JeffM2501 | how can he not have enough memory? |
| 03:08.53 | JeffM2501 | rkr, that's bad design |
| 03:09.18 | JeffM2501 | it's more common to not be able to open a file, then it is for new to fail. |
| 03:09.29 | rkr | Okay, so it's bad design. I'd still call it a bug. |
| 03:09.39 | JeffM2501 | new actualy fails on your system? |
| 03:09.43 | rkr | The point is, info was available about success; it was ignored. |
| 03:09.49 | rkr | Yes. Memory is finite. Even VM. |
| 03:09.53 | JeffM2501 | that hapeens in many things |
| 03:10.05 | JeffM2501 | rkr, wow, your system sucks |
| 03:10.08 | rkr | About 128MB per process is the traditional default. |
| 03:10.13 | JeffM2501 | wow |
| 03:10.15 | rkr | Wow, Jeff, you must be using a Turing machine. |
| 03:10.24 | JeffM2501 | I get 4 gigs of address space |
| 03:10.31 | JeffM2501 | regardless of physical ram |
| 03:10.31 | purple_cow | rkr: considering the simplicity of bzflag maps and the limits of the graphics capability (both of the system and the software), under any normal conditions there should *never* be a memory failure |
| 03:10.34 | rkr | I live with real machines, which admiteedly are less powerful than turing machines... |
| 03:11.03 | rkr | The memory failure was observed when a typo in the generation produced a large map, such as the sample. |
| 03:11.09 | JeffM2501 | rkr, it takes time and effort to check all news, and in 99.9% of them the work |
| 03:11.17 | rkr | (shrug) |
| 03:11.23 | rkr | I didn't say that most of the time it doesn't work. |
| 03:11.26 | JeffM2501 | how big of a new were you asking for? |
| 03:11.35 | rkr | I'm saying that it's a bug to trash the video display. |
| 03:11.43 | JeffM2501 | last time I saw a new fail was on OS7+ mac |
| 03:11.47 | purple_cow | trashing your display sounds like an OS bug ;-) |
| 03:11.48 | Newb | well, hopefully this will do it. |
| 03:11.50 | trepan | heh, as if a debugger was used... |
| 03:11.51 | Newb | Guess I gotta restart X and see |
| 03:12.00 | rkr | I have no idea. bzflag does not print those stats, and it blew the stack away so backtraces are gone. |
| 03:12.07 | purple_cow | because, ya know, when i have GL programs crash, everything gets cleaned up happy |
| 03:12.18 | JeffM2501 | eww your GL died |
| 03:12.26 | DTRemenak | heh, running that map takes 482mb here |
| 03:12.36 | JeffM2501 | that should never happen in a protected memory system |
| 03:12.43 | rkr | No, purple_cow. It's a bzflag bug. bzflag changes the resolution, then crashes before it restores what it mucked with. |
| 03:12.55 | JeffM2501 | rkr, so fix it |
| 03:13.13 | rkr | fix bzflag? Are we past the semantic argument that it's a bug, then? |
| 03:13.15 | purple_cow | rkr: what X server are you running? 'cuz ctrl+alt++ will switch through the resolutions on everything I've used in the last 8 years... |
| 03:13.20 | rkr | (I can't fix X.) |
| 03:13.28 | JeffM2501 | many fixes are for things that arn't comonly encoutered bugs |
| 03:13.35 | rkr | Depends on your X config, purple_cow. |
| 03:13.36 | JeffM2501 | feature flaws and bad designes can be fixed too |
| 03:14.06 | DTRemenak | rkr, nobody will object to a patch that checks allocations for nullity. but nobody wants to do the work either. |
| 03:14.25 | rkr | I can't remember now why I wound up disallowing that ctr-alt-+ hack, though the X config files suggest that it's a bad idea anyway as it prevents legit key sequences being passed to applications. |
| 03:14.26 | JeffM2501 | yeah it's a common thing to not check them |
| 03:14.34 | purple_cow | this whole argument is just about stupid semantics. some of us aren't willing to call completely bogus situations "bugs" and some are |
| 03:14.47 | JeffM2501 | is he in an invalid case? |
| 03:14.51 | rkr | Okay, if no one will object, that's a start. |
| 03:15.11 | JeffM2501 | was the new size like unreasonable? |
| 03:15.16 | DTRemenak | if it's worth the effort to you that's cool. if it's not, certainly nobody here is going to do it. |
| 03:15.25 | JeffM2501 | can you slap in a breakpoint in a debuger before it dies and see? |
| 03:15.42 | purple_cow | JeffM2501: it's not dying at any particular point |
| 03:15.54 | JeffM2501 | valgrind |
| 03:16.05 | JeffM2501 | find out where it blows over a boundry |
| 03:16.10 | purple_cow | it's dying because some random allocation fails because he doesn't have enough memory, and then something ends up derefs NULL |
| 03:16.19 | JeffM2501 | valgrind should find that |
| 03:16.24 | purple_cow | not really |
| 03:16.29 | JeffM2501 | it wont" |
| 03:16.30 | JeffM2501 | ? |
| 03:16.32 | JeffM2501 | wow |
| 03:16.36 | DTRemenak | only if you can get it to overrun your own memory size |
| 03:16.38 | purple_cow | an out-of-memory failure can happen at any point depending on what else is running |
| 03:16.45 | JeffM2501 | boundchecker can break on any malloc/new failure |
| 03:16.50 | DTRemenak | e.g. if it happened on my machine I could trap it with valgrind |
| 03:17.02 | rkr | Even if I could, I would have no idea where. The backtrace, I believe, gets trashed. Also, it makes am ess to crash out of xf86vidmode. |
| 03:17.04 | JeffM2501 | he could wrap new up, make it check and assert |
| 03:17.05 | purple_cow | JeffM2501: it can be caught, but it's not something that can be fixed in only one spot |
| 03:17.12 | DTRemenak | but it wouldn't be any information because if I opened a text file in my web browser, it would fail earlier |
| 03:17.28 | JeffM2501 | that would be simplest |
| 03:17.41 | JeffM2501 | a global new macro that did an assert on the return |
| 03:17.51 | JeffM2501 | but still |
| 03:17.56 | JeffM2501 | wow new failing |
| 03:17.59 | DTRemenak | you can probably catch most of them by trapping nulls in the world allocation code and texture manager. almost everything else is little chunks of memory. |
| 03:18.02 | JeffM2501 | haven't heard of that in a long while |
| 03:18.23 | JeffM2501 | hell the VC debuger will pobably find it |
| 03:18.25 | DTRemenak | you'll never get a complete solution without checking every new and malloc in the code |
| 03:18.26 | rkr | It's pretty easy to do, Jeff. (^& |
| 03:18.30 | JeffM2501 | it's a map that can dupe it? |
| 03:18.35 | trepan | DTR: probably an octree in this case |
| 03:18.39 | JeffM2501 | a real world reasonable map? |
| 03:18.41 | DTRemenak | not on a machine with your memory, JeffM2501 :) |
| 03:18.52 | JeffM2501 | what? |
| 03:18.55 | JeffM2501 | all I have is 2 gigs |
| 03:18.59 | DTRemenak | won't do it on mine, 482 mb isn't enough to push the edge |
| 03:19.18 | DTRemenak | his "sample map" pulls about 480 mb of memory |
| 03:19.19 | rkr | Oh, it can be made larger by shifting a decimal place... |
| 03:19.19 | JeffM2501 | how little does he have? |
| 03:19.30 | JeffM2501 | good lord |
| 03:19.31 | DTRemenak | it's enough to make my machine go into pagefile |
| 03:19.33 | JeffM2501 | that's NOT a reasonable map |
| 03:19.46 | rkr | No, it's not. |
| 03:19.53 | DTRemenak | it's only a 3.8mb map |
| 03:19.55 | JeffM2501 | that is not a bug, that is a map outside of the design goals of bzflag |
| 03:20.01 | JeffM2501 | what expands it so big? |
| 03:20.01 | rkr | The memory consumer was a typo. |
| 03:20.04 | JeffM2501 | heavy group useage? |
| 03:20.10 | rkr | No. |
| 03:20.15 | DTRemenak | trepan's probably right, it's probably the octrees that blow it up |
| 03:20.29 | trepan | i have a 25 byte map that'll eat all of your's memory... |
| 03:20.35 | rkr | The lack of objects of the sort I needed, simulated with voxels. Make a typo in the generation description and you get far more boxes than you intend. |
| 03:20.36 | DTRemenak | hehe |
| 03:20.40 | JeffM2501 | still the map parser is not perfect, it can make cases that are unsuported |
| 03:20.51 | BenUrban | trepan: i have a 1 line shell command that'll do the same |
| 03:21.01 | BenUrban | and it'll do it faster |
| 03:21.02 | BenUrban | and better |
| 03:21.10 | trepan | ya for you |
| 03:21.13 | rkr | It's really all just boxes. No groupings. |
| 03:21.19 | JeffM2501 | rkr, since bzflag dosn't support voxels, the input was a map file, so I don't care where the typo was, the map was out of bounds. |
| 03:21.32 | JeffM2501 | bugs in your script or code I don't care about. |
| 03:21.41 | JeffM2501 | how many boxes? |
| 03:21.49 | JeffM2501 | in the map? |
| 03:22.01 | JeffM2501 | and was the map file valid? |
| 03:22.03 | rkr | grep & wc if you care about that. I don't. I care that bzflag blew up gracelessly. |
| 03:22.09 | JeffM2501 | acording to bzflag standards? |
| 03:22.20 | JeffM2501 | dude bzflag blows up all the time |
| 03:22.22 | rkr | It conformed, yes. Just had a few too many boxes. |
| 03:22.25 | DTRemenak | 42,732 |
| 03:22.29 | trepan | rkr: try -set _coldetDepth 0 & -set _cullDepth 0 |
| 03:22.30 | rkr | Not for me it doesn't. (^& |
| 03:22.41 | JeffM2501 | rkr then you need to bang on it more |
| 03:22.45 | rkr | What do those parameters control? |
| 03:22.52 | JeffM2501 | thats an unreasonable number of boxes |
| 03:23.09 | rkr | It's rather more than there were supposed to be. (shrug) |
| 03:23.15 | trepan | although i believe the octree double-loading was re-introduced |
| 03:23.25 | JeffM2501 | bzflag isn't made for N objects, in design or speed |
| 03:23.29 | DTRemenak | "rather more" e.g. "an order of magnitude more?" :) |
| 03:23.53 | rkr | At least one order of magnitude, yes. |
| 03:23.57 | JeffM2501 | so your complaining that bzflag has a bug because it dosn't suport your huge unreasonable map? |
| 03:23.58 | rkr | (^& |
| 03:24.04 | DTRemenak | trepan, doesn't bzfs build the octrees too? |
| 03:24.10 | trepan | yup |
| 03:24.15 | rkr | No, it's because bzflag crashes and leaves the video mode screwed up. |
| 03:24.16 | trepan | just the coldet one |
| 03:24.16 | DTRemenak | bzfs only snarfs about 12mb of memory with that map here |
| 03:24.20 | DTRemenak | ah, ok |
| 03:24.21 | rkr | I don't care that it can't load the map; that's fine. |
| 03:24.23 | JeffM2501 | I guess it has a bug because it dosn't support my 10000 x 10000 textures ether |
| 03:25.01 | DTRemenak | rkr: heck, you want unexpected behavior, try bzfs +f good{100} |
| 03:25.02 | rkr | I don't ask that it work miracles. Just that it not make a mess. (^& |
| 03:25.03 | JeffM2501 | purple_cow, did you get the screamers to compike? |
| 03:25.15 | JeffM2501 | rkr, then you are in the wrong place my friend :) |
| 03:25.26 | DTRemenak | rkr, or -set gravity "abc" |
| 03:25.29 | JeffM2501 | bzflag is 13 or so years old :) |
| 03:25.37 | DTRemenak | or any number of other things |
| 03:25.58 | JeffM2501 | sucker dosn't even have a design dock |
| 03:26.09 | JeffM2501 | I'm suprised it runs sometimes :) |
| 03:26.39 | rkr | Heh. |
| 03:26.40 | JeffM2501 | but then again, I was drunk when I did some parts of it :) |
| 03:26.58 | DTRemenak | if the server crashes sometime other than startup, or if clients crash mid-game then we probably care. if clients crash when you're not in a game or the server crashes on startup we don't really give a damn, that happens a lot and it's easy to get around |
| 03:27.55 | JeffM2501 | still his system can't allocate 400 megs? |
| 03:27.56 | JeffM2501 | wow |
| 03:28.02 | DTRemenak | heck, until last year both bzfs and bzflag leaked memory like the dickens and nobody did anything about it until we got valgrind on it. |
| 03:28.52 | JeffM2501 | seems odd that valgrind won' do a malloc check |
| 03:28.53 | rkr | Jeff: I said before, the traditional process VM space on BSD has been 128MB for a long time. |
| 03:29.01 | JeffM2501 | in boundchecker we can set ram limits too when running |
| 03:29.02 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501, it does. malloc WON'T FAIL |
| 03:29.04 | rkr | It can be raised by a kernel option and probably by a sysctl. |
| 03:29.07 | trepan | coldet alone will kill you at around 1000 boxes sans octrees... |
| 03:29.10 | JeffM2501 | to simulate low ram situations |
| 03:29.20 | DTRemenak | valgrind might be able to do that, I dunno |
| 03:29.22 | rkr | But no memory is infinite. You'll run out eventually. Adding more RAM just postpones that. |
| 03:29.38 | JeffM2501 | rkr, wow hen how do people use real apps on BSD then? |
| 03:30.16 | JeffM2501 | rkr, when you have a proper memory manager that does address maping and give your app a pure virtual memory space, it becomes a lot easyers |
| 03:30.25 | JeffM2501 | on windows we allocate up to 4 megs of ram |
| 03:30.28 | JeffM2501 | sorry gigs |
| 03:30.31 | JeffM2501 | on 32 bit system |
| 03:30.32 | rkr | 99.999% of applications don't need such ridiculous amounts of memory. If they do, they are runaway applications generally and will die NO MATTER HOW MUCH memoryo you give them. |
| 03:30.57 | rkr | Only a very few programs need so much. For those special cases, you can modify the kernel limits. |
| 03:31.02 | DTRemenak | rkr, so what would you have us do? impose arbitrary limits? check every alloc? wouldn't you rather we spent our time making bzflag more awesome? |
| 03:31.05 | JeffM2501 | rkr, not true, simulations, cad,cam, modeling, many common WORKSTATION class applications that the variuls unix systems run |
| 03:31.23 | JeffM2501 | we get catia models that are 2-3 gigs all the time |
| 03:31.30 | rkr | As established, bzflag shouldn't need that much memory. The problem isn't that it runs out. the problem is what happens when it does. |
| 03:31.37 | JeffM2501 | rkr, so fix it |
| 03:31.44 | JeffM2501 | check and assert every new in the code |
| 03:31.47 | rkr | Do they load those models into main memory? |
| 03:31.48 | JeffM2501 | tell us when you are done :) |
| 03:31.52 | JeffM2501 | rkr, yes |
| 03:31.53 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501, allocating memory you don't actually have is always a problem. windows uses a swap file not a swap partition so it can alloc until phys memory + disk space < 4gb |
| 03:31.59 | rkr | Or do they index and access on disk? |
| 03:32.03 | rkr | Do they use mmap()? |
| 03:32.27 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, true, but it handles it on the back end, and it can grow while the app is running, at least there is some provision in it |
| 03:32.28 | DTRemenak | unixes use swap partitions...if yours isn't big enough malloc will fail |
| 03:32.30 | rkr | You can mmap() as muchas you like, I believe, up to architecture limits of VM space. But anonymous VM (malloc()/new type stuff) is limited. |
| 03:32.31 | JeffM2501 | not some lame 128 meg cap |
| 03:32.35 | purple_cow | JeffM2501: yeah, compiked and running :) |
| 03:32.42 | JeffM2501 | purple_cow, |
| 03:32.43 | purple_cow | JeffM2501: that was the whole "what key for the sports cam" thing |
| 03:32.50 | JeffM2501 | hard caps seem lame, like old 68k mac |
| 03:32.54 | JeffM2501 | and "code segements" |
| 03:32.59 | rkr | Interestingly the last few installs I've done have limited swap partitions by default to *less* than physical memory. |
| 03:33.05 | JeffM2501 | purple_cow, well you didn't say :) |
| 03:33.13 | rkr | You can also swap over NFS or swap to file. |
| 03:33.19 | rkr | that's beside the point, though. |
| 03:33.26 | DTRemenak | hard caps are a good idea for server systems, to prevent a runaway app from forcing critical services into swap |
| 03:33.27 | JeffM2501 | so linux and bsd sytems have fixed swaps? |
| 03:33.33 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, true |
| 03:33.36 | DTRemenak | yeah, it's a separate disk partition |
| 03:33.38 | rkr | Not sure what you mean by fixed swaps. |
| 03:33.51 | JeffM2501 | can the sawp size get biger if needed? |
| 03:34.04 | rkr | You can add swap files and partitions at any time on BSD. |
| 03:34.11 | bryjen | even if its a file, Linux doesn't "grow" its swap space automagically |
| 03:34.12 | JeffM2501 | on windows if the pagefile starts to fill it can allocate more, since it's just a file? |
| 03:34.15 | rkr | It's done via swapctl(8). |
| 03:34.19 | JeffM2501 | ok that's cool |
| 03:34.25 | DTRemenak | freebsd can change it dynamically within the slice. linux can't, I dunno about other bsds. |
| 03:34.30 | JeffM2501 | I guess bsd is more of a server OS then a workstation OS |
| 03:34.44 | rkr | I did that on a RAID box to part out the swapping over RAID after I'd already built a filesystem all over RAID. |
| 03:35.07 | JeffM2501 | we just hit the "yes make it biger" button :) |
| 03:35.11 | JeffM2501 | when it gets close |
| 03:35.20 | DTRemenak | until you run out of free disk space :) |
| 03:35.25 | rkr | On WIN32, I just let the OS manage it and try not to think about it... |
| 03:35.28 | JeffM2501 | unlikely |
| 03:35.36 | DTRemenak | unix can swap out to nfs if it has to (eek!) |
| 03:35.39 | JeffM2501 | 120-250 megs drives :) |
| 03:35.40 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 03:35.45 | JeffM2501 | gig drives |
| 03:35.55 | JeffM2501 | having 4 gig free isn't usualy an issue these days |
| 03:36.05 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501, I actually ran out of space on the partition that had my windows swap file on it once. killed the whole system |
| 03:36.14 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, yeah that can be bad |
| 03:36.18 | DTRemenak | guess it decided that of all the processes, the least important was user32 :S |
| 03:36.30 | JeffM2501 | one reason I don't like the "put windows on a tiny partion" methodology |
| 03:36.38 | DTRemenak | linux at least makes smart choices about what app to kill :) |
| 03:36.47 | JeffM2501 | no OS is perfect :) |
| 03:36.52 | bryjen | you just have to put the swapfile somewhere's else then |
| 03:36.56 | DTRemenak | so true |
| 03:37.04 | JeffM2501 | guess tha'ts why there arn't many games on BSD then |
| 03:37.26 | JeffM2501 | eq2 uses about 2 gigs of ram when running |
| 03:37.31 | DTRemenak | geez, that's excessive |
| 03:37.35 | JeffM2501 | not really |
| 03:37.36 | rkr | How much bzflag sources (for the main program) are there other than .../src/bzflag? |
| 03:37.41 | bryjen | so nice that win2k setup couldn't format a part bigger than 4G |
| 03:37.59 | JeffM2501 | bryjen, yeah I remember that limit |
| 03:38.04 | JeffM2501 | XP dosn't ahve it |
| 03:38.07 | DTRemenak | rkr, everything in every other src/ directory except bzadmin and bzfs is used to link bzflag |
| 03:38.23 | bryjen | yeah, it can make 32G ones during setup now |
| 03:38.24 | rkr | No, I think that the main reason that games for BSD are limited is simply the lack of DRI (outside of FreeBSD) and the relatively obscure status it enjoys. |
| 03:38.26 | JeffM2501 | rkr, the client uses the other libs tho, like common, net. etccc |
| 03:38.37 | DTRemenak | bryjen, hrm, I formatted a 25-gig partition when I was installing 2k |
| 03:38.49 | JeffM2501 | rkr, well the fact that few uses it is the bigest one |
| 03:38.58 | JeffM2501 | if they have to change code for a port, it makes it harder to justify |
| 03:39.02 | DTRemenak | yeah, it's not a big market |
| 03:39.09 | bryjen | DTR: not using the format tool builtin to the text-mode setup programs |
| 03:39.16 | DTRemenak | bryjen, yeah, using that |
| 03:39.23 | JeffM2501 | the limit MAY have been in NT4 |
| 03:39.29 | rkr | Yes. "The relatively obscure status that it enjoys", Jeff. |
| 03:39.30 | DTRemenak | blank disc, partitioned and installed onto a 25 gig ntfs5 partition |
| 03:39.32 | JeffM2501 | it's been so long |
| 03:39.39 | DTRemenak | bryjen, maybe because it was 2KAS |
| 03:39.46 | bryjen | uhm.... |
| 03:39.59 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 03:40.00 | bryjen | :P |
| 03:40.00 | JeffM2501 | AS? |
| 03:40.04 | DTRemenak | advanced server |
| 03:40.08 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 03:40.16 | DTRemenak | nt4 called it "enterprise server" or whatever |
| 03:40.21 | rkr | Though Mac is part BSD these days (and part Mach)...(^& |
| 03:40.21 | JeffM2501 | it was ehter 2kWS or NT4WS that had a limit |
| 03:40.27 | DTRemenak | think they went back to that name for 2k3 too |
| 03:40.40 | JeffM2501 | rkr, it just has BSD style bindings, IIRC it's not any real BSD code or kernel |
| 03:40.55 | DTRemenak | rkr, but the games are all going to port to either X or Aqua, not to BSD or Mac |
| 03:41.04 | rkr | Um, it has BSD userland. Some FreeBSD and some NetBSD. At least, that's what the references say that i read. |
| 03:41.06 | DTRemenak | doesn't matter how similar the subsystems are |
| 03:41.09 | rkr | The kernel is Mach, however. |
| 03:41.09 | blast007 | Server 2003 has the "Enterprise Edition" |
| 03:41.16 | rkr | So I gather. |
| 03:41.21 | JeffM2501 | rkr, well I can allocate an assload of ram :) |
| 03:41.24 | JeffM2501 | with new |
| 03:41.24 | trepan | from the latest /. post, a line i didn't think to read so soon: "The EtherFabric software shipping Monday runs on the Linux kernel 2.4 and 2.6, with support for Windows and Unix coming in the first half of next year" |
| 03:41.26 | JeffM2501 | and it just works |
| 03:41.44 | rkr | That's nice. It's still a tiny amount compared to the infinite. When you get to infinity, let me know...(^& |
| 03:42.03 | JeffM2501 | 4 gig is closer to inf. then 128 :) |
| 03:42.07 | JeffM2501 | often close enough :) |
| 03:42.13 | rkr | Not proportionately any closer. (^& |
| 03:42.14 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501, it's infitesimally closer :) |
| 03:42.43 | bryjen | try one of the 64bit archs |
| 03:42.46 | JeffM2501 | rkr, so you need infinate ram? |
| 03:42.53 | JeffM2501 | bryjen, I am |
| 03:42.54 | JeffM2501 | soon |
| 03:42.57 | DTRemenak | woot |
| 03:43.01 | JeffM2501 | dual core 4200 |
| 03:43.08 | JeffM2501 | with 4 gigs of ram |
| 03:43.24 | rkr | \lim_{k \to \infty} {1 \over k} == 0 == \lim_{k \to \infty} {4e10 \over \infty}. |
| 03:43.37 | JeffM2501 | rkr, so are you going to fix it or keep whining? |
| 03:43.40 | rkr | (Err, last \infty should be k.) |
| 03:43.56 | rkr | Yes, looking at it, but you keep whining about how 640K ought to be enough for anyone...(^& |
| 03:44.04 | JeffM2501 | never said that |
| 03:44.04 | rkr | (Or whatever.) |
| 03:44.10 | rkr | Close enough. (^& |
| 03:44.14 | JeffM2501 | you keep going off on how your OS dosn'tt suck ;) |
| 03:44.32 | JeffM2501 | seems mine sucks less since it can run your map ;) |
| 03:44.48 | bryjen | no, maybe that means it sucks more ;) |
| 03:44.49 | JeffM2501 | purple_cow, does it have what you need? |
| 03:45.04 | JeffM2501 | if sucking == working then I'm all FOR the suck |
| 03:45.14 | JeffM2501 | sucking can be good if applied in the right places |
| 03:45.24 | rkr | I could raise the per-process limit, Jeff. It's not an OS bug. It's a bzflag bug that cause bzflag to *crash* when the OS tells bzflag that it can't have what it wants. |
| 03:45.30 | bryjen | too late, he went |
| 03:45.43 | JeffM2501 | rkr, ok so fix it for bsd then |
| 03:45.44 | purple_cow | JeffM2501: what, screamers? i guess. probably would be prudent to start from a requirements standpoint rather than the old code |
| 03:45.45 | rkr | If you really want me to look at fixing it, quit whining about N is enough memory for everyone. (^& |
| 03:45.51 | JeffM2501 | the other OSs don't need to waste the cycles on the if test |
| 03:46.03 | rkr | You can't "fix it for BSD". You have to fix it for memory allocation failure. |
| 03:46.07 | JeffM2501 | purple_cow, yeah that's what I had thought you wanted in the first pace |
| 03:46.27 | rkr | I can readily give you a map that *will* crash your system if that will make you happy. |
| 03:46.28 | purple_cow | JeffM2501: at the same time, it's good to have the old stuff in case there's code we can reuse ;) |
| 03:46.31 | JeffM2501 | rkr, ok just don't waste my windows machiens CPU on something that will probably never happen :) |
| 03:46.41 | purple_cow | though prolly not too much, since it seems a lot of that is engine stuff, which is mostly taken care of for us |
| 03:46.46 | JeffM2501 | purple_cow, got an idea for the requrements? |
| 03:46.53 | JeffM2501 | purple_cow, yeah |
| 03:47.02 | JeffM2501 | the "game" part of the code was basicly just moving that silly pod |
| 03:47.15 | JeffM2501 | but it looked damn good doing it :) |
| 03:47.42 | JeffM2501 | the bigest thing that bugs me about the pod is there is no clear "gun" port |
| 03:47.46 | rkr | You won't be able to notice the CPU consumption unless you're using an 8086, Jeff. (^& |
| 03:47.48 | JeffM2501 | not for a single shot |
| 03:48.00 | purple_cow | JeffM2501: could do something on either side and alternate |
| 03:48.12 | JeffM2501 | rkr, best would be a debug asert that can compile out in release mode |
| 03:48.16 | DTRemenak | two guns is better than one |
| 03:48.18 | JeffM2501 | that's how most real projects to dit |
| 03:48.33 | rkr | That's an abuse of assert(). |
| 03:48.38 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, a true statement, but if you wanted like a "shot" |
| 03:48.42 | purple_cow | how is it an abuse of assert? |
| 03:48.48 | purple_cow | assert was *made* for checking things |
| 03:48.50 | JeffM2501 | isn't that what its bloddy for? |
| 03:48.51 | rkr | assert() is used to catch "can't happen", not to fail gracefully. It would have the same problem as crashing. |
| 03:49.17 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501, two shots is better than one too :) |
| 03:49.20 | JeffM2501 | ok then don't use the "Assert" function make your own assert, the concept is still an assert |
| 03:49.21 | rkr | You use assert() to catch logically impossible things (if the programmer understood the code correctly), not to do error-checking against finite resources or user mis-use. |
| 03:49.32 | bryjen | you're trying to solve two different problems, rkr |
| 03:49.35 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, was just thingking of ballance |
| 03:49.49 | rkr | No, I'm just trying to get it to exit cleanly if memory is exhausted. |
| 03:49.57 | rkr | (Rather than blow up badly.) |
| 03:50.11 | JeffM2501 | I have thought of puting like a photon torpedo hole on the bottom middle, like on the front of those star treck klingon ships on it |
| 03:50.15 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501, have them calculate the distance and path to the target so they hit it in the same place at the same time, from different starting locations |
| 03:50.26 | bryjen | 1. the need to check allocations 2. gracefully clean-up on (error) exit |
| 03:50.39 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, on an open fire weapon how do you know what the 'target" is? |
| 03:50.43 | JeffM2501 | distance wise |
| 03:50.48 | DTRemenak | calculate the path |
| 03:50.48 | JeffM2501 | you could be leading the target |
| 03:50.50 | rkr | Was bzflag originally written in plain C? Or has it always been C++? |
| 03:50.54 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, to what object |
| 03:50.58 | JeffM2501 | there could be N |
| 03:51.00 | purple_cow | this codebase has always been C++ |
| 03:51.01 | DTRemenak | m, that's true, moving objects |
| 03:51.06 | JeffM2501 | and moving shots |
| 03:51.09 | DTRemenak | hadn't thought of that :) |
| 03:51.18 | purple_cow | rkr: assert() would exit fine if you catch the abort signal and shut down SDL before exiting |
| 03:51.24 | JeffM2501 | the pod was deisnged for the side ports to be like machine guns |
| 03:51.30 | JeffM2501 | low damage high rate of fire |
| 03:51.33 | purple_cow | for all i know, SDL already catches abort |
| 03:51.35 | bryjen | no, we won't all sit still for you to target us, DTRemenak ;) |
| 03:51.40 | DTRemenak | bryjen, awww |
| 03:51.42 | rkr | Thanks, purple_cow. I just saw some element-by-element copying of a vector and was wondering why it didn't use a C++ operator. |
| 03:51.44 | JeffM2501 | purple_cow, SDL does, the "parachute" |
| 03:52.02 | DTRemenak | rkr, copying an entire vector is non-obvious |
| 03:52.02 | JeffM2501 | rkr, that dosn't mean that all the develpers KNOW C++ :) |
| 03:52.04 | rkr | purle_cow: assert() does not exit(). It abort()s. |
| 03:52.15 | rkr | Well, yes, you could do that, purple_cow... |
| 03:52.25 | rkr | (Didn't read the whole thing; sorry; obscured by a window.) |
| 03:52.32 | DTRemenak | rkr, took me a while to figure out how, would have been faster to write a for loop to do it |
| 03:52.42 | JeffM2501 | why are you using voxels anyway? |
| 03:52.57 | rkr | To construct objects that can't be expressed natively. |
| 03:53.07 | bryjen | because he is silly |
| 03:53.10 | JeffM2501 | so fix the engine to express tthem nativly |
| 03:53.11 | rkr | That, too. |
| 03:53.28 | trepan | for ramps... |
| 03:53.29 | bryjen | you can't get a mesh into the shape you want? |
| 03:53.37 | rkr | You can't walk up a mesh. |
| 03:53.45 | bryjen | oh, yeah |
| 03:53.46 | JeffM2501 | so fix the engine so you CAN |
| 03:53.47 | rkr | (^& |
| 03:54.02 | rkr | We had this discussion the other night. I was told that it was verbotten to change the design that much. |
| 03:54.13 | JeffM2501 | you can't make the tank tilt |
| 03:54.15 | rkr | So I embraced the voxel approach to solve it locally with a workaround. |
| 03:54.18 | JeffM2501 | but you could fix the "walk" code |
| 03:54.23 | DTRemenak | it can't be done until next protocol break. that is != to it can't be done at all :) |
| 03:54.31 | DTRemenak | and you can't make the tank tilt |
| 03:54.33 | bryjen | so quit trying to be subversive |
| 03:54.43 | JeffM2501 | well actualy you can make the tank tilt |
| 03:54.46 | JeffM2501 | if you fork as well |
| 03:54.49 | rkr | How am I being subversive? |
| 03:54.56 | JeffM2501 | are you a student? |
| 03:54.59 | DTRemenak | I doubt he'd want to fork :) |
| 03:55.04 | rkr | I'm creating the map that I want with the tool that i have. |
| 03:55.16 | rkr | No, I'm not a student, Jeff. |
| 03:55.24 | JeffM2501 | a map that is gonna be slower then crap :) |
| 03:55.30 | DTRemenak | rkr, I'd bet bryjen was being sarcastic, just fyi :) |
| 03:55.39 | rkr | (^& |
| 03:55.46 | bryjen | you're trying to produce the "verbotten" behavior through a different means |
| 03:55.58 | rkr | (Jeff: Runs reasonably well for me...) |
| 03:56.12 | JeffM2501 | rkr, execpt when you run out of ram :) |
| 03:56.20 | DTRemenak | rkr: I was getting < 1/4 fps on that map when facing the center |
| 03:56.24 | rkr | No. What I was told was verbotten was to make tanks tilt. |
| 03:56.26 | JeffM2501 | how many FPS? |
| 03:56.41 | JeffM2501 | yeah you can fix the walking code and make it walk up meshes |
| 03:56.42 | rkr | I am not using voxels to do that, just to make walkable shapes. (^& |
| 03:57.02 | rkr | DTRemanak: Well, the map you saw was *not* what it was supposed to be like. It had rather more boxes than it was supposed to have. |
| 03:57.16 | rkr | I am *not* trying to make that map work. |
| 03:57.17 | JeffM2501 | what is your FPS now? |
| 03:57.17 | bryjen | GIGO |
| 03:57.28 | JeffM2501 | on your good map? |
| 03:57.30 | DTRemenak | rkr, I know...geez, that's what I get for trying to crack a joke :) |
| 03:57.33 | rkr | I am trying to make it not blow up and leave a bloody mess... |
| 03:57.41 | bryjen | that |
| 03:57.48 | JeffM2501 | rkr, well that ain't gonna happen till you fix it :) |
| 03:57.51 | bryjen | s what happens in FPSes, no? |
| 03:57.56 | rkr | Sorry, DTRemanak. I didn't read it as a joke. (^& |
| 03:58.25 | DTRemenak | the music is so awesome |
| 03:58.30 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 03:58.30 | DTRemenak | very well done |
| 03:58.35 | JeffM2501 | did you see that you can download it? |
| 03:58.37 | rkr | Jeff: I can't fix it while people keep yapping. (^& (And fps on a good map is about normal for me without DRI (not LINUX or FreeBSD or Mac or WIN32)... |
| 03:58.40 | DTRemenak | yeah, I did |
| 03:58.49 | JeffM2501 | those people have my eternal respect for making that thing |
| 03:58.58 | JeffM2501 | "get outa my face Tree Dodger" |
| 03:59.08 | DTRemenak | rkr, you can always ignore the rapping. |
| 03:59.12 | DTRemenak | err, yapping |
| 03:59.12 | JeffM2501 | rkr, sure you can, just don't repply |
| 03:59.18 | rkr | (About 20 to 30 fps...) |
| 03:59.23 | rkr | Ah, that would be rude, though. (^& |
| 03:59.24 | DTRemenak | ignoring the rapping is probably good too though :) |
| 03:59.32 | JeffM2501 | I still haven't seen a FPS number |
| 03:59.34 | DTRemenak | 'cause the rapping sucks |
| 03:59.39 | bryjen | oh noes |
| 03:59.40 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501, he just gave you one ;) |
| 03:59.46 | rkr | Go back up a few lines, Jeff. (^& |
| 03:59.48 | JeffM2501 | he did? |
| 03:59.50 | JeffM2501 | ahh I ssee |
| 03:59.51 | JeffM2501 | ok |
| 03:59.56 | JeffM2501 | my bad :) |
| 04:00.02 | JeffM2501 | 20-30 |
| 04:00.04 | JeffM2501 | wow |
| 04:00.08 | DTRemenak | I see, said the blind man, as he picked up his hammer and saw |
| 04:00.21 | JeffM2501 | that is low |
| 04:00.25 | rkr | (shrug) |
| 04:00.26 | DTRemenak | haha |
| 04:00.28 | JeffM2501 | purple_cow, have you see the movie yet? |
| 04:00.34 | rkr | Try turning off hardware acceleration and see what you get, Jeff. (^& |
| 04:00.40 | purple_cow | JeffM2501: downloaded it. haven't watched so far |
| 04:00.51 | JeffM2501 | no thank, I use an OS that dosn't suck and has real drivers ;) |
| 04:00.52 | rkr | Better still, completely bypass DRI just to be sure. Use Mesa directly. |
| 04:00.53 | JeffM2501 | purple_cow, you should |
| 04:00.57 | rkr | (shrug) |
| 04:00.59 | JeffM2501 | eww |
| 04:01.01 | JeffM2501 | why? |
| 04:01.02 | purple_cow | JeffM2501: yeah, i'll get around to it |
| 04:01.06 | JeffM2501 | no REALY |
| 04:01.13 | rkr | I use an OS that doesn't suck but doesn't have commercial support. (^& |
| 04:01.15 | JeffM2501 | you SHOULD WATCHH IT! |
| 04:01.24 | JeffM2501 | rkr that is a form of suckage :) |
| 04:01.31 | JeffM2501 | my compuer is a tool |
| 04:01.35 | rkr | Jeff: Not really. (^& |
| 04:01.39 | JeffM2501 | it does what I want |
| 04:01.43 | rkr | So does mine. |
| 04:01.51 | rkr | If I w anted, I'd have GNU/LINUX or WIN32 or the like installed. |
| 04:01.52 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501, some people like their tools to not tell them what they can and can't do with them (!) |
| 04:01.53 | JeffM2501 | well since suckage is relitive to the person describing it, yes it does :) |
| 04:02.01 | rkr | I find NetBSD more comfortable/friendly/stable. |
| 04:02.08 | DTRemenak | no, I won't put that screw in for you! says the screwdriver |
| 04:02.13 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, yeah between linux and windows they do exactly what I want them to do |
| 04:02.19 | JeffM2501 | for the rest I use the mac :) |
| 04:02.22 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 04:02.28 | JeffM2501 | and they ALL have hardware GL |
| 04:02.48 | JeffM2501 | what's the point of having 2 400$ video cards if you arn't gonna have drivers for em :) |
| 04:02.49 | rkr | That's nice. (^& |
| 04:03.10 | Aribeth_away | Gentoo does most of what i need it to do |
| 04:03.11 | rkr | You have 2 $400 cards and only got 1/4fps on that map? Wow. (^& |
| 04:03.19 | DTRemenak | rkr, dude wrong guy :) |
| 04:03.28 | DTRemenak | HE has 2 $400 video cards |
| 04:03.33 | DTRemenak | I got 1/4 fps :) |
| 04:03.34 | rkr | Oh, sorry. |
| 04:03.43 | rkr | Crossed wires. |
| 04:03.44 | JeffM2501 | how fast is your CPU |
| 04:03.53 | JeffM2501 | that gives you 20-30? |
| 04:04.12 | purple_cow | JeffM2501: just added a short doc with my ideas. completely undeveloped so far |
| 04:04.22 | JeffM2501 | well the video cards are on order, they are on there way |
| 04:04.32 | JeffM2501 | right now I have one 150$ video card |
| 04:04.33 | rkr | About 2GHz, I believe, according to dmesg. I didn't see a real clock rating on the AMD CPU itself. |
| 04:04.41 | JeffM2501 | it's an AMD what? |
| 04:04.46 | JeffM2501 | 2800? |
| 04:04.51 | rkr | AMD 64. |
| 04:04.59 | DTRemenak | I paid about $150 for mine too...two or three years ago :) |
| 04:05.00 | JeffM2501 | 64 what? |
| 04:05.06 | rkr | Oh, AMD's number is 3200, I believe. |
| 04:05.07 | JeffM2501 | 3000? |
| 04:05.11 | JeffM2501 | there ya go :) |
| 04:05.12 | bryjen | bits |
| 04:05.18 | rkr | Real speed is 2GHz. |
| 04:05.20 | JeffM2501 | not a bad CPU at all |
| 04:05.22 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 04:05.25 | DTRemenak | bryjen :) |
| 04:05.32 | rkr | cpu0: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3200+, 1994.98 MHz |
| 04:05.48 | JeffM2501 | I'd probably get 60-70 on this system with hardwarre GL, if your in software |
| 04:06.09 | JeffM2501 | and I'm on a regular 2800+ right now |
| 04:06.15 | rkr | Oh? 2 to 3 times the speed for $800 in hardware. That's more than the rest of the system is worth. (^& |
| 04:06.22 | JeffM2501 | untill I get the new hotness |
| 04:06.31 | JeffM2501 | rkr, no no |
| 04:06.39 | JeffM2501 | on my little 150$ card |
| 04:06.47 | JeffM2501 | read ALL the lines I say |
| 04:06.50 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501, what do you have in there now? 5700? |
| 04:06.50 | rkr | Ah. |
| 04:06.57 | JeffM2501 | 5750 |
| 04:07.05 | JeffM2501 | rkr, so a cheaper system |
| 04:07.06 | rkr | Just a little while ago, I was being encouraged not to pay attention to all of the lines people were saying. (^& |
| 04:07.07 | DTRemenak | cool |
| 04:07.18 | DTRemenak | rkr, more like all or none :) |
| 04:07.19 | Aribeth_away | nice card |
| 04:07.21 | JeffM2501 | Aribeth_away, how do you like it? |
| 04:07.34 | JeffM2501 | Im torn between those and 6800's |
| 04:07.39 | DTRemenak | listening to just some of them is a bit...odd |
| 04:07.41 | rkr | I have more than 1 bit of attention, I'm afraid. And some may be permamently wired on, others off. |
| 04:07.45 | Aribeth_away | i love it. i get 130 to 240 fps depending on the map |
| 04:07.47 | bryjen | didn't we get the answer to that question earlier ;) |
| 04:07.51 | rkr | So all or none isn't really a proposition that will work... |
| 04:08.11 | rkr | What's your video monitor's refresh rate, Aribeth? (^& |
| 04:08.13 | JeffM2501 | rkr, you are wierd dude |
| 04:08.21 | rkr | (noddles) |
| 04:08.35 | Aribeth_away | noh about 10 ms |
| 04:08.36 | JeffM2501 | is the 6600GT like the 'ultra" version of the 6600? |
| 04:08.50 | Aribeth_away | not sure |
| 04:08.55 | rkr | (^& |
| 04:09.06 | rkr | What good is more than 100fps, then? |
| 04:09.10 | JeffM2501 | the display will be the best part tho :) |
| 04:09.15 | Aribeth_away | i have the new dell 24 inch lcd |
| 04:09.19 | JeffM2501 | rkr, the fact that you can turn up the settings |
| 04:09.26 | JeffM2501 | Aribeth_away, that's what I'm geting |
| 04:09.43 | JeffM2501 | rkr, larger textures, more effects, etc... and bring it back down to refresh |
| 04:10.08 | JeffM2501 | Aribeth_away, have you pluged in the svideo to it? if so how does it look? |
| 04:10.11 | rkr | What's the point of an fps rating on a setting level that you won't use, then? (^& I assumed that the number of fps was at the desired level... |
| 04:10.14 | JeffM2501 | does it make an ok TV |
| 04:10.20 | JeffM2501 | rkr, benchmark |
| 04:10.23 | DTRemenak | Aribeth_away, you get over 100 fps on Giza !? |
| 04:10.29 | Aribeth_away | Jeff, not yet |
| 04:10.30 | JeffM2501 | it's the only bench mark we have |
| 04:10.43 | JeffM2501 | Aribeth_away, and it's a dual input monitor right? |
| 04:11.13 | Aribeth_away | no, VGA, DVI, SVidio out, and Component |
| 04:11.29 | Aribeth_away | and 4 usb ports |
| 04:11.32 | JeffM2501 | VGA and DIV |
| 04:11.36 | JeffM2501 | those are 2 inputs :) |
| 04:11.37 | rkr | Jeff: But without saying what your settings are, it's not a benchmark at all. So I assumed that the "benchmark" was at the highest desired level of detail (or at least, highest before saying "it's getting too slow"). |
| 04:11.44 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpinella (~frank@p5481997A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 04:11.55 | JeffM2501 | rkr, I didn't say it was a good benchmark, i just said it was one :) |
| 04:12.10 | rkr | Jeff: Don't confuse me with facts. |
| 04:12.15 | JeffM2501 | I'd love to have a timing test |
| 04:12.15 | Aribeth_away | lol. i know. i was pulling your leg |
| 04:12.26 | JeffM2501 | rkr, don't talk to me unless your willing to be serious |
| 04:12.31 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 04:12.49 | rkr | I have more than 1 bit of seriousness... |
| 04:12.54 | JeffM2501 | Aribeth_away, the pan is to have one of thsoe as the main, running the mac and PC, with the PC running 2 more 19's off to the side |
| 04:13.00 | JeffM2501 | rkr, whatever |
| 04:13.01 | *** join/#bzflag Newb (~184a5350@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 04:13.15 | Newb | Hey, thanks for helping et BZflag running :-) |
| 04:13.19 | Newb | *me |
| 04:13.28 | Newb | Now how do I play it? |
| 04:13.29 | JeffM2501 | I just want to make sure that I can swap between the PC and mac |
| 04:13.45 | Aribeth_away | JeffM2501, in a word...SWEET! |
| 04:13.49 | DTRemenak | rkr, on an unrelated note...you can test bzflag cvs by putting its sources in your pkgsrc directory and telling it to use them. pkgsrc may complain about patches not lining up perfectly but it ought to work |
| 04:14.05 | Aribeth_away | i have it running in 1920x1200 res |
| 04:14.11 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, but then would he complain about? |
| 04:14.25 | JeffM2501 | Aribeth_away, yeah both the PC and mac will support that |
| 04:14.28 | DTRemenak | or just apply the pkgsrc patches to the cvs sources manually (with patch) and use the normal ./autogen.sh && ./configure && make |
| 04:14.31 | JeffM2501 | I hope |
| 04:14.44 | JeffM2501 | I was hoping to use it as a TV monitor too |
| 04:14.49 | JeffM2501 | since it's nice and widescreen |
| 04:14.57 | Aribeth_away | it was a pain to find the X config code to get it working |
| 04:15.03 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501, he's demonstrated an ability to complain about many different things, some of them even perfectly valid :) |
| 04:15.12 | rkr | DTRemenak: It would probably be simpler to build a release-LIKE tarball of sources, remove the distinfo file, and drop the new tarball in distfiles... |
| 04:15.16 | purple_cow | JeffM2501: ok, hows that look? |
| 04:15.19 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, wonder if he's related to CBG :) |
| 04:15.22 | DTRemenak | rkr, yeah, or that :) |
| 04:15.22 | Newb | I was just playin BZ for about the last hour or so for the first time. I noticed that a lot of other people had cool wepeans that I didn't have (or didn' know how to use) |
| 04:15.28 | JeffM2501 | purple_cow, how's what look? |
| 04:15.29 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501, not nearly so bad |
| 04:15.34 | purple_cow | JeffM2501: doc/specification |
| 04:15.39 | JeffM2501 | ohh haven't looekd yet |
| 04:15.44 | rkr | I can try your suggestion, though. (^& |
| 04:15.46 | blast007 | Newb: the help menu in the game might be of use ;) |
| 04:15.47 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501, for one thing he's willing to do stuff and test stuff :) |
| 04:16.06 | rkr | What's the anoncvs root? I don't grab from SourceForge often enough... |
| 04:16.08 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, true true |
| 04:16.17 | JeffM2501 | rkr there is a cvs access page |
| 04:16.22 | DTRemenak | rkr, /cvsroot/bzflag for bzflag |
| 04:16.23 | JeffM2501 | linked right off the main web page |
| 04:16.24 | JeffM2501 | has it all |
| 04:16.31 | DTRemenak | or yeah, look at the web page |
| 04:16.37 | Newb | Blast007: obviously I tried the help menu.. it didn't help very much |
| 04:16.38 | JeffM2501 | purple_cow, WATCH THE MOVIE |
| 04:16.46 | JeffM2501 | really |
| 04:16.49 | JeffM2501 | seriously |
| 04:16.49 | rkr | Jeff: Yes, I can go look it up from scratch. I was hoping that someone knew offhand. |
| 04:17.01 | Newb | I figured out the key sto control the tank... just not the full game play. |
| 04:17.11 | blast007 | Newb: to get other weapons, pick up different flags |
| 04:17.31 | Newb | But I keep getting flags that suck... then I can't get another one |
| 04:17.33 | JeffM2501 | purple_cow, it has to sting like a bee too |
| 04:17.47 | blast007 | space button or middle mouse button drop the flag |
| 04:17.53 | Newb | oh... ok |
| 04:17.57 | JeffM2501 | purple_cow, want to talk about it here? or somewhere else |
| 04:18.00 | blast007 | expect 'bad' flags, that stick around until they run out |
| 04:18.08 | JeffM2501 | I have other ideas besides the limted shots idea |
| 04:18.13 | DTRemenak | Newb, http://shellshock.bzflag.bz/guides-firstcontact.html |
| 04:18.21 | Newb | Thanks |
| 04:18.22 | DTRemenak | there are other guides the same place |
| 04:18.25 | DTRemenak | they're very cool |
| 04:18.33 | DTRemenak | dutchrai is the man |
| 04:18.37 | blast007 | DTRemenak: hehe, was _just_ about to paste that link ;) |
| 04:19.41 | JeffM2501 | or see if we can just get all the content |
| 04:19.45 | JeffM2501 | and absorb the site |
| 04:19.56 | Aribeth_away | ummmm |
| 04:19.56 | DTRemenak | Dutchrai gave us permission to use it, IIRC |
| 04:20.00 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 04:20.06 | JeffM2501 | it's good info |
| 04:20.10 | JeffM2501 | make it part of the real deal |
| 04:20.18 | JeffM2501 | and set them up as authors |
| 04:20.43 | DTRemenak | actually it's currently hosted on bzflag.bz proper |
| 04:20.49 | purple_cow | JeffM2501: either here or elsewhere is fine |
| 04:20.59 | DTRemenak | so in a way it is already absorbed |
| 04:22.16 | blast007 | would be cool to load the guides into the game using cURL by throwing them into a text file on a webserver |
| 04:22.33 | blast007 | then you could update them when needed |
| 04:22.54 | JeffM2501 | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:23.10 | JeffM2501 | so if you shoot a lot, it takes less shots to kill you |
| 04:23.19 | purple_cow | JeffM2501: ok |
| 04:23.25 | JeffM2501 | or you can mother your shots and have more power for shilds |
| 04:23.39 | *** join/#bzflag detached_ (~bzgirl@ottawa-hs-209-217-79-115.d-ip.magma.ca) |
| 04:23.40 | JeffM2501 | also you can pull power from shields to move at a faster speed |
| 04:23.47 | JeffM2501 | pickups can increase your power regen |
| 04:23.58 | JeffM2501 | or just give you a one shot "top off" |
| 04:24.04 | JeffM2501 | but it's random |
| 04:24.11 | JeffM2501 | you don't know what you get when you pick it up |
| 04:24.16 | Aribeth_away | in bzflag?? |
| 04:24.29 | purple_cow | Aribeth_away: no |
| 04:24.36 | Aribeth_away | thought so |
| 04:24.37 | JeffM2501 | pickups can also increase your shots up to 3 levels |
| 04:24.38 | JeffM2501 | more damage |
| 04:24.44 | JeffM2501 | but also takes more power |
| 04:24.55 | JeffM2501 | and UT CTF, not the bz stuff :) |
| 04:25.03 | purple_cow | hmm |
| 04:25.05 | JeffM2501 | if that sounds OK I'll edit the file |
| 04:25.19 | purple_cow | JeffM2501: update and then change |
| 04:25.20 | JeffM2501 | purple_cow, big diff is , can't cap a flag unless your flag is at base |
| 04:25.28 | JeffM2501 | and no carying your own flag |
| 04:25.36 | JeffM2501 | hit it and it VOOPs back |
| 04:25.42 | JeffM2501 | I will update |
| 04:27.07 | Newb | coo, thanks for the tut... I'm going back to playing |
| 04:27.34 | Newb | BTw... is there anyway to straff in this game? |
| 04:27.49 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 04:27.53 | *** join/#bzflag blast007` (~blast007@24-196-92-143.jvl.wi.charter.com) |
| 04:27.54 | Newb | Cause I get killed trying to turn around a lot. |
| 04:28.02 | JeffM2501 | that is the chalange |
| 04:28.09 | Newb | ok |
| 04:28.55 | purple_cow | JeffM2501: yay for this being different enough from bz to be interesting :) |
| 04:30.52 | JeffM2501 | object based world? |
| 04:30.56 | JeffM2501 | for starters? |
| 04:31.43 | purple_cow | doesn't ogre have that .scene thing? |
| 04:31.52 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 04:31.56 | JeffM2501 | but I mostly mean |
| 04:32.01 | JeffM2501 | things the pod can't go thru |
| 04:32.09 | JeffM2501 | aka "stuff" |
| 04:32.15 | JeffM2501 | how ever its' defined |
| 04:32.43 | DTRemenak | blast007: yeah, that would be cool. patches welcome? :) |
| 04:33.05 | purple_cow | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:33.05 | blast007 | hehe ;) |
| 04:33.20 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501, experiMENTALfrog seriously needs to tone down his sig pic |
| 04:34.25 | JeffM2501 | hooooolly hell |
| 04:34.44 | DTRemenak | heh, see? |
| 04:34.58 | purple_cow | rofl |
| 04:35.02 | blast007 | wow.... |
| 04:35.25 | DTRemenak | it's especially great with his one-line posts :S |
| 04:35.42 | JeffM2501 | he's been notified |
| 04:35.45 | JeffM2501 | and sig removed |
| 04:35.48 | JeffM2501 | he's a jerk |
| 04:35.54 | JeffM2501 | an old KM "buddy" |
| 04:36.01 | DTRemenak | ah one of those |
| 04:36.06 | JeffM2501 | he's on the path to the bad place |
| 04:51.22 | JeffM2501 | purple_cow, updated |
| 04:51.39 | JeffM2501 | and probably spelled HORIBLY |
| 04:52.43 | brlcad | heh |
| 04:52.53 | brlcad | ~spell horibly |
| 04:53.10 | JeffM2501 | purple_cow, I have more ideas, but figured keep it simple at first |
| 04:55.22 | bryjen | heh. variably |
| 04:56.13 | JeffM2501 | hey it's not my fault I don't have a personal dictationist :) |
| 04:56.43 | JeffM2501 | and probably the size |
| 04:57.02 | JeffM2501 | the safety zone thign was just an idea |
| 04:58.00 | purple_cow | yeah, i commented a bit on that |
| 04:58.21 | JeffM2501 | it has abbuse problems so maybe it waits |
| 04:58.28 | purple_cow | i don't really like it - if you need to pee, you can hold it until the next round starts and sit it out or take a couple points hit |
| 04:58.51 | JeffM2501 | and cathater sales rise |
| 04:59.07 | JeffM2501 | subspace had them |
| 04:59.10 | JeffM2501 | they can be usefull |
| 04:59.16 | JeffM2501 | but not esental |
| 04:59.30 | purple_cow | doesn't thinkgeek sell a bottle for that? |
| 04:59.57 | JeffM2501 | that's why you save gatorade bottles :) |
| 05:00.44 | bryjen | perhaps you are able to go into "safety" to keep your points, but unable to exit until a new round starts |
| 05:01.54 | JeffM2501 | better to just die then |
| 05:02.07 | JeffM2501 | since points would be reset on a round |
| 05:02.38 | bryjen | yeah, it wouldn't work then |
| 05:03.05 | JeffM2501 | fix the shot bug? |
| 05:03.17 | DTRemenak | still trying to decide if I like it :) |
| 05:03.32 | JeffM2501 | they should not end early |
| 05:03.38 | DTRemenak | why not? |
| 05:03.40 | DTRemenak | GMs do |
| 05:03.52 | JeffM2501 | because they never have in the past |
| 05:04.03 | JeffM2501 | and it would be inconsitent with 2.0.2 and before |
| 05:04.08 | JeffM2501 | tho it really wouldn't mater |
| 05:04.09 | bryjen | lasers work OK |
| 05:04.11 | JeffM2501 | actualy |
| 05:04.13 | DTRemenak | whoa...did I just hear JeffM2501 use a tradition argument? :) |
| 05:04.34 | JeffM2501 | in 2.0.2 what if you had an object off map, and a shot ricoed back in? |
| 05:04.45 | DTRemenak | rico wasn't calculated at all |
| 05:05.09 | JeffM2501 | so in 2.0.2 it wold not rico back in? |
| 05:05.40 | DTRemenak | I actually changed that for 2.0.4 before this thing came up, because it triggered a bunch of Bad Things graphically in certain situations where you had shotsKeepVeritcalVelocity |
| 05:06.09 | JeffM2501 | but would that not make a shot on 2.0.4 end, where on 2.0.2 it could rico back into play? |
| 05:06.17 | JeffM2501 | or do you not end it if it's never going to hit anything? |
| 05:06.17 | DTRemenak | no |
| 05:06.26 | DTRemenak | in 2.0.2 it would just keep going through all the objects |
| 05:06.34 | DTRemenak | no rico calculations |
| 05:06.36 | JeffM2501 | ahh ok |
| 05:06.39 | JeffM2501 | well not too bad then |
| 05:06.47 | bryjen | that'd look silly |
| 05:06.50 | DTRemenak | certain 2.0.3s have it reco again |
| 05:06.56 | DTRemenak | bryjen, heck yeah it does |
| 05:07.02 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, ewww |
| 05:07.14 | JeffM2501 | what ever it is, it should be consistent across prot version |
| 05:07.21 | JeffM2501 | since we use proto to mean "gameplay" version as well |
| 05:07.33 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501, I joined every map currently running and none had objects outside the walls |
| 05:07.43 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, yeah it is rare |
| 05:07.50 | JeffM2501 | so like I say, not a BIG thing |
| 05:07.56 | DTRemenak | so I figured it would be no big deal...the ground is the only difference |
| 05:08.05 | DTRemenak | and that's where most of the bad gfx come from |
| 05:08.15 | DTRemenak | shots passing through the ground outside the walls |
| 05:08.25 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 05:08.32 | JeffM2501 | well as long as it's thought out |
| 05:08.39 | JeffM2501 | and stays gameplay conistent |
| 05:08.53 | DTRemenak | terminating them at the edge is imho a much more reasonable solution :) |
| 05:09.15 | JeffM2501 | or let them rico back in |
| 05:09.17 | DTRemenak | doesn't seem to cause any nasties between clients |
| 05:09.25 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 05:09.32 | JeffM2501 | a valid change for this release |
| 05:14.17 | DTRemenak | wonder if we can make them just stop, and not explode, at the edge of the map |
| 05:14.30 | DTRemenak | so the tele effect would be all you see |
| 05:14.33 | DTRemenak | that could be cool |
| 05:14.42 | JeffM2501 | or make them fade out :) |
| 05:14.47 | DTRemenak | even cooler :) |
| 05:15.06 | purple_cow | soo |
| 05:15.14 | purple_cow | now that that's out of the way, where do we start? :) |
| 05:17.45 | JeffM2501 | with a cool cool logo! |
| 05:19.21 | purple_cow | hehe |
| 05:19.35 | purple_cow | that's not even funny :P |
| 05:19.47 | purple_cow | well, yeah it is |
| 05:19.49 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 05:20.02 | JeffM2501 | ogre as engine |
| 05:20.05 | JeffM2501 | SDL for input? |
| 05:20.14 | JeffM2501 | what for sound? |
| 05:20.17 | JeffM2501 | and what for net? |
| 05:20.21 | purple_cow | doesn't ogre have input? |
| 05:20.25 | JeffM2501 | some |
| 05:20.29 | purple_cow | sound i think we can ignore for now, that's easy to add later |
| 05:20.31 | JeffM2501 | don't think it does sticks |
| 05:20.34 | JeffM2501 | net? |
| 05:21.20 | purple_cow | what options are there? |
| 05:21.29 | JeffM2501 | enet |
| 05:21.31 | JeffM2501 | tnl |
| 05:21.43 | JeffM2501 | some other one somone was talking about before |
| 05:21.47 | JeffM2501 | "Rsomething" |
| 05:21.52 | JeffM2501 | or homebrew |
| 05:23.25 | purple_cow | not homebrew |
| 05:24.04 | JeffM2501 | I've got a network sub system done with enet done allready |
| 05:24.13 | JeffM2501 | complete with mesage packers and all |
| 05:24.28 | JeffM2501 | dosn't have any fancy features like compression |
| 05:24.31 | JeffM2501 | but it works |
| 05:29.06 | purple_cow | tnl looks good |
| 05:29.10 | purple_cow | higher-level than enet |
| 05:29.15 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 05:29.20 | JeffM2501 | never used it |
| 05:29.42 | JeffM2501 | don't know how well it's OS support is |
| 05:30.11 | Pimpinella | English:I want to rent soon a root server on which I BZFlag servers install. Who a BZFlag server to hEnglish:I want to rent soon a root server on which I BZFlag servers install. Who a BZFlag server to have wants can it to me say. If 20 people meet cost a server 3¤. (Translate by google)ave wants can it to me say. If 20 people meet cost a server 3¤. (Translate by google) |
| 05:30.30 | Pimpinella | nice one |
| 05:30.39 | Pimpinella | from gu forums |
| 05:31.52 | purple_cow | looks like technically just win, lin & osx |
| 05:32.06 | purple_cow | but that's good enough for me |
| 05:32.16 | JeffM2501 | jup |
| 05:32.24 | JeffM2501 | any sort of user auth? |
| 05:32.26 | JeffM2501 | or do that later? |
| 05:32.42 | purple_cow | later |
| 05:32.53 | purple_cow | right now i just want something playable |
| 05:33.14 | JeffM2501 | firestarter code is playable |
| 05:33.18 | JeffM2501 | tho not current with ogre |
| 05:33.35 | JeffM2501 | so I guess we get a world loader set up |
| 05:33.45 | JeffM2501 | and a network server to connect to and get info from |
| 05:33.59 | JeffM2501 | then some sort of entity management thingy |
| 05:34.16 | JeffM2501 | and have it all call hooks in the game code when needs to know what to do |
| 05:34.25 | JeffM2501 | so it can be swapable |
| 05:34.41 | JeffM2501 | oh and you have to watch that movie |
| 05:36.36 | JeffM2501 | and techincaly I should be packing |
| 05:37.00 | purple_cow | when do you move? |
| 05:37.51 | JeffM2501 | sunday |
| 05:38.14 | JeffM2501 | tho I may just take friday off to pack too |
| 05:41.06 | purple_cow | hmm, world loader |
| 05:43.03 | JeffM2501 | or at least that .scene thing |
| 05:43.08 | JeffM2501 | what makes those things? |
| 05:43.18 | JeffM2501 | oh and watch the damn movie! :) |
| 05:44.58 | purple_cow | JeffM2501: i think there are exporters for some common software packages |
| 05:45.03 | purple_cow | i know there's a blender exporter... |
| 05:45.04 | JeffM2501 | well |
| 05:45.05 | JeffM2501 | 2 |
| 05:45.12 | JeffM2501 | blender and max |
| 05:45.15 | JeffM2501 | I don't have max |
| 05:45.21 | JeffM2501 | and don't know how to use blender |
| 05:46.38 | purple_cow | don't worry! learning it will only drive you a little insane |
| 05:46.56 | JeffM2501 | ogre's interface is an afroont to my clicky nature |
| 05:47.17 | JeffM2501 | tho I'm sure I can model in lightwave and export |
| 05:47.26 | purple_cow | prolly |
| 05:49.14 | JeffM2501 | tho what all is going to be done server side? |
| 05:49.19 | purple_cow | err, the manual says there are lightwave, maya & wings3d exporters |
| 05:49.35 | JeffM2501 | that is for the .mesh formaty |
| 05:49.42 | JeffM2501 | the .scene is not part of the base stuff |
| 05:49.48 | JeffM2501 | it's a difrent plugin |
| 05:50.03 | JeffM2501 | how much will the world need to know about the world? |
| 05:50.07 | JeffM2501 | sorry |
| 05:50.13 | JeffM2501 | server need to know about the world? |
| 05:50.37 | purple_cow | hmm |
| 05:50.45 | purple_cow | i'd prefer that as much as possible be done on the server |
| 05:50.47 | JeffM2501 | I'd rather not BZ cheezze |
| 05:50.48 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 05:51.03 | JeffM2501 | make the server use headless ogre? |
| 05:52.28 | purple_cow | hmm |
| 05:52.45 | JeffM2501 | they do have a nice little loader project that is seperate from ogre |
| 05:52.46 | purple_cow | that's tempting |
| 05:53.34 | JeffM2501 | it would be kinda cool to do a server with a display and have it record movies :) |
| 05:53.41 | JeffM2501 | if it had enough juice |
| 05:59.04 | *** join/#bzflag gvdm (~gvdm@210-246-13-149.paradise.net.nz) |
| 05:59.44 | purple_cow | hmm, beginning to wonder about .scene |
| 06:00.06 | JeffM2501 | maybe just send over simple object definitions? |
| 06:00.12 | JeffM2501 | or just callouts to mesh files? |
| 06:00.34 | purple_cow | callouts to mesh files, i'd say |
| 06:00.50 | JeffM2501 | server would still need to know how to load the mesh |
| 06:01.00 | JeffM2501 | or at least know it's colision rect |
| 06:01.03 | JeffM2501 | or volume |
| 06:01.07 | JeffM2501 | if it has to do collisions |
| 06:01.11 | JeffM2501 | for any reason |
| 06:01.49 | purple_cow | hmm. can ogre be used without ever creating a render window? |
| 06:01.56 | JeffM2501 | I don't know |
| 06:05.45 | JeffM2501 | yay |
| 06:09.00 | *** join/#bzflag Newb (~184a5350@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 06:09.14 | Newb | is there a way to make the radar bigger? |
| 06:09.22 | rkr | Bigger than what? |
| 06:09.28 | Newb | bigger then it is. |
| 06:09.38 | Newb | It so small I can barley see the bullets |
| 06:09.49 | rkr | Depends on how big it is; (^& I think that there's some flexibility...but you can't make it fullscreen that I know of. |
| 06:10.00 | Newb | that would be cool |
| 06:10.10 | Newb | Cause I barley use I user view. |
| 06:10.15 | Newb | *the |
| 06:10.22 | purple_cow | Newb: look in the settings |
| 06:10.58 | Newb | the other main problem I have is that I can't ever hit anyone, because I can't tell how far away they are (in user view) |
| 06:11.27 | rkr | purple_cow: You mean you *can* make it huge? I can only get it to maybe 1/9th of my display... |
| 06:12.27 | purple_cow | well, you can always use the bzdb variable to make it bigger |
| 06:12.46 | rkr | bzdb? |
| 06:12.57 | purple_cow | /set |
| 06:17.53 | rkr | Ah, not something that a normal player can do, then, on just any old map? |
| 06:18.27 | purple_cow | it's a client variable |
| 06:18.35 | Newb | I found it |
| 06:18.39 | purple_cow | the GUI sets it, but the actual variable has effect beyond the range that the gui controls |
| 06:18.41 | Newb | it's better |
| 06:19.09 | Newb | I there a training server? |
| 06:19.27 | Newb | I've been gettin my ass stomped al night by people that I can't even hit. |
| 06:19.41 | rkr | All I could find was radarLimit.... |
| 06:20.26 | trepan | ~bzconf |
| 06:20.27 | ibot | i guess bzconf is http://bzflag.org/wiki/ConfigFile |
| 06:21.58 | Newb | how do the other guys line up they're shots so perfectly? do they know something I don't? or are just "that good"? |
| 06:22.07 | rkr | ls work* |
| 06:22.13 | rkr | whups... |
| 06:23.03 | Newb | Usually what happens is as soon as I try to shoot someone they jump, then they just keep bouncing till one of they're teammates kills me. |
| 06:23.36 | Newb | Sometimes I can kill them in the air buy bouncing with them and shooting them in the air. |
| 06:23.59 | purple_cow | Newb: it's pretty easy to get them to land on a bullet |
| 06:24.03 | purple_cow | sounds like you just need to practice more |
| 06:24.08 | *** join/#bzflag qwe (~qwe@dialup-ras13-151.eug.or.uspops.net) |
| 06:24.10 | Newb | I guessI just suck |
| 06:24.33 | qwe | hmm, when I hit "Q" to turn radar on it just gives me "Hit 'Q' to toggle radar" on the console |
| 06:25.41 | qwe | any ideas? |
| 06:30.24 | *** join/#bzflag _Manu_ (~jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 06:35.41 | *** join/#bzflag tankdriver (~aussie@dialup-246.86.221.203.acc50-stge-pth.comindico.com.au) |
| 06:35.48 | DTRemenak | qwe, could be that the server you're on has radar disabled |
| 06:36.11 | DTRemenak | dtremenak.bakadigital.com:6001, for instance, is set up that way |
| 06:37.03 | qwe | DTRemenak: that must be it, I joined another server and now it works fine |
| 06:37.05 | qwe | ty |
| 06:37.08 | DTRemenak | np |
| 06:37.12 | *** part/#bzflag qwe (~qwe@dialup-ras13-151.eug.or.uspops.net) |
| 06:38.29 | tankdriver | Hi all. Is it possible in the future that robot players could use flags and jump? |
| 06:46.33 | DTRemenak | tankdriver, anything is possible |
| 06:46.48 | DTRemenak | and the future is a very long time |
| 06:48.07 | tankdriver | Sounds good. I'm down under and the servers here are all empty, so a nice jumping bot would be good. :) |
| 06:48.47 | DTRemenak | autopilot can do that and more |
| 06:49.24 | tankdriver | It can? what command line option do you need for that? |
| 06:49.26 | DTRemenak | start up multiple bzflags, set them on autopilot, then join the server yourself :) |
| 06:49.29 | DTRemenak | none |
| 06:49.39 | DTRemenak | but you only get one per client and it replaces the player |
| 06:49.45 | DTRemenak | so you need to start bzflag more than once |
| 06:49.54 | DTRemenak | join the server, press 9 to activate autopilot |
| 06:50.04 | DTRemenak | F4 minimizes and you can go start the next copy |
| 06:50.08 | tankdriver | ok, I'll try that, I use linux and xfce dekstop manager |
| 06:50.32 | DTRemenak | beware of cpu and ram shortages with too many copies of bzflag running |
| 06:50.36 | Pimpinella | recruit your friends to play the game |
| 06:50.44 | DTRemenak | good, on windows sometimes multiple clients makes it crash :) |
| 06:50.55 | DTRemenak | much better to run linux anyway :) |
| 06:50.59 | tankdriver | I"m trying, but they like CS |
| 06:51.08 | DTRemenak | ugh |
| 06:51.19 | tankdriver | Yes true, I only use linux, have done for a few years now. |
| 06:51.52 | purple_cow | because everyone else does it? |
| 06:51.53 | DTRemenak | but lots of people do so it's probably me that's strange :) |
| 06:52.19 | tankdriver | Thats for sure bzflag is quality software, and CS is just a hack. |
| 06:52.33 | Pimpinella | ... |
| 06:52.43 | DTRemenak | heh "bzflag is quality software"...fortunately you are unfamiliar with the code :) |
| 06:53.13 | tankdriver | I have looked at the code, but its well beyond my hello world programing skills. |
| 06:53.23 | DTRemenak | at least it's fun to play, that's the important thing :) |
| 06:53.53 | DTRemenak | some parts of it are probably well within your grasp if you can do hello world from memory :) |
| 06:55.01 | DTRemenak | other parts of it, even the people who wrote it don't understand... |
| 06:55.39 | DTRemenak | "I think I was drunk when I wrote that" comes up more often than you might wish ;) |
| 06:55.51 | purple_cow | i do too understand BZDB! |
| 06:56.03 | tankdriver | I have played with the robotplayer code, but changed a few things... hoping to introduce a few logic bugs that would make the robots stupid, but it seems I have even more logic bugs, and I still get tosted by them :( |
| 06:56.22 | Pimpinella | if we would freeze features and spend one or two years on refactoring it'd probably becomesomewhat better |
| 06:56.24 | DTRemenak | robot code is not the most simple by any means :) |
| 06:56.43 | tankdriver | :( I know |
| 06:56.55 | DTRemenak | Pimpinella, you can't easily refactor within a protocol freeze |
| 06:57.11 | DTRemenak | Jeff's new message handling stuff breaks protocol for instance |
| 06:57.34 | DTRemenak | purple_cow, right... :) |
| 06:57.49 | Pimpinella | havn't looked at that yet |
| 06:58.07 | purple_cow | i swear! |
| 07:00.27 | *** join/#bzflag mmu_man (~revol@ALyon-253-1-47-223.w83-205.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 07:07.04 | tankdriver | I have 3 bzflags going, but only one is player is active, the others show up as nr next the there nick. Have I done something wrong? |
| 07:12.47 | *** join/#bzflag gvd1 (~gvdm@210-246-13-149.paradise.net.nz) |
| 07:13.10 | *** part/#bzflag gvd1 (~gvdm@210-246-13-149.paradise.net.nz) |
| 07:20.59 | tankdriver | Maybe the server wont let more than one connection from the same computer. |
| 07:25.15 | purple_cow | that doesn't really make sense |
| 07:28.46 | *** join/#bzflag kyelewis` (~kyelewis@203.48.249.52) |
| 07:38.05 | tankdriver | Yeah, I guess you right. |
| 07:38.44 | tankdriver | What would happen is the other players would come up as not responding. |
| 07:39.00 | tankdriver | nr next to the callsign |
| 07:39.06 | ruskie | connection probs |
| 07:39.14 | ruskie | maybe to slow... |
| 07:39.20 | purple_cow | what OS? |
| 07:39.21 | tankdriver | its on my computer. |
| 07:39.27 | rkr | Hm. If you're not actually logged in, it seems that the radar area doesn't clear for refreshes---even though messages (e.g., servers' names on the serverlist on the metaserver) can be written there... |
| 07:39.29 | tankdriver | linux FC3 |
| 07:39.37 | purple_cow | how are you running multiple clients? |
| 07:39.43 | tankdriver | I had 3 going |
| 07:40.02 | purple_cow | what i'm asking is how you started them |
| 07:40.25 | tankdriver | As I switched from on to the other, the one I switched to would would and the others would stop responding. |
| 07:40.41 | tankdriver | Ok I ran each one in a different terminal. |
| 07:41.29 | *** join/#bzflag gvdm (~gvdm@210-246-13-149.paradise.net.nz) |
| 07:44.31 | purple_cow | presumably in a window with mousegrab off? |
| 07:45.00 | tankdriver | I think I have mousegrab on |
| 07:45.16 | tankdriver | I'll try it without. |
| 07:46.04 | *** join/#bzflag Birdie (~birdie@d51A465C1.access.telenet.be) |
| 07:46.29 | tankdriver | Is that called mouse confine |
| 07:46.56 | purple_cow | yeah, but that won't help the problem |
| 07:47.05 | purple_cow | how did you switch between them if the mouse was grabbed? |
| 07:48.12 | tankdriver | I pressed F4 to minimised each window, and then used alt-tab to swtich between. |
| 07:48.59 | Birdie | au its no auto "giving the voice" |
| 07:49.00 | purple_cow | could be your GL driver blocks things when the window is hidden? |
| 07:51.18 | tankdriver | Not sure, the players all appear, on the score list, but do not appear on the map |
| 07:57.15 | *** part/#bzflag gvdm (~gvdm@210-246-13-149.paradise.net.nz) |
| 08:04.20 | *** join/#bzflag jolie (~alex@jolie.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 08:04.20 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v jolie] by ChanServ |
| 08:07.19 | Pimpinella | Birdie: nah, you're not in the channel's access list |
| 08:11.25 | _Manu_ | Pimpinella, good morning :) |
| 08:12.43 | Birdie | oh _Manu_, some one told very very good about you on the gu forum |
| 08:13.43 | ruskie | hmmm |
| 08:15.22 | _Manu_ | Birdie, very very good? sure? ;) |
| 08:15.58 | Birdie | a quote: man! I wish we could clone Manu for every server |
| 08:16.11 | ruskie | :)) |
| 08:16.39 | _Manu_ | lol :) |
| 08:17.04 | Birdie | people complain because he base camps, and admins tell hims to fix his lag because he is getting lagkicked all the time, and his remark on that is that he need you on the server |
| 08:31.54 | *** join/#bzflag triclops_ (~triclops@c211-31-49-112.rivrw7.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 08:32.05 | *** join/#bzflag _Manu_ (~jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 08:32.41 | _Manu_ | he base camps... who? |
| 08:40.07 | *** part/#bzflag _Manu_ (~jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 08:41.30 | Birdie | binairyspike |
| 08:42.12 | ruskie | well anti base camping tools would be a good idea... |
| 08:42.44 | Birdie | certainly not on gu |
| 08:42.56 | Birdie | and basecamping isnt waiting for people to spawn btw |
| 08:43.09 | Birdie | just waiting there above with the flag till some one jumps to it |
| 08:44.51 | ruskie | erm? |
| 09:02.13 | rkr | Um, I thought that basecamping is camping out (i.e., waiting around) near the base, primarily to catch fresh logins and people who respawn after their flag is captured. |
| 09:02.29 | ruskie | yup |
| 09:02.30 | Birdie | you can also define it like that |
| 09:02.33 | ruskie | that's how I define it |
| 09:02.49 | Birdie | but another definition is(they call it defence to:) ), is waiting on your base with the flag |
| 09:02.57 | Birdie | is why they call it camping |
| 09:03.11 | ruskie | I call that defense and it's a valid move imho... |
| 09:03.26 | ruskie | you don't endanger the other team unless they try to get your flag... |
| 09:03.26 | rkr | Camping out at the enemy base is not defense. It's offense. |
| 09:03.44 | ruskie | rkr, we were refering to own base |
| 09:03.49 | rkr | Whether it's valid depends...I see people hang out around the enemy base with shockwave or steamroller to pick up easy points...no skill. |
| 09:03.54 | rkr | Ah.... |
| 09:03.59 | rkr | I didn't catch that. |
| 09:04.06 | rkr | Then I wouldn't call that basecamping. |
| 09:04.32 | ruskie | that's defense imho... |
| 09:04.44 | ruskie | and camping doesn't bother me... only basecamping... |
| 09:06.11 | Birdie | for normal camping you dont need skill either.. |
| 09:08.47 | rkr | But at least players can avoid normal campers, so if someone camps out, they can be lonely (except for people that enjoy digging them out). |
| 09:09.04 | rkr | For base campers, you can't avoid them... |
| 09:09.12 | ruskie | yup |
| 09:09.32 | ruskie | I sometimes hunt campers or camp myself(in tricky positions)... |
| 09:10.12 | ruskie | the worst base camping is geno... |
| 09:17.15 | Pimpinella | i hate writing forum replies in german and repeat everything in english to make it readable for averybody |
| 09:18.21 | ruskie | reply in english and be done with it... |
| 09:19.04 | Pimpinella | the author of the original posting seems to be unable to understand it |
| 09:19.33 | Pimpinella | http://www.gamesunited.de/ib/index.php?showtopic=11188&st=0&#entry243992 |
| 09:19.57 | Pimpinella | i love google's translations |
| 09:30.56 | *** join/#bzflag LePoulpe303 (~LePoulpe3@AMontpellier-251-1-78-253.w83-201.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 09:31.14 | LePoulpe303 | Hi all ! |
| 09:31.23 | Pimpinella | hi |
| 09:34.09 | ruskie | lo |
| 09:36.38 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (~Matthew@cpc3-stme1-5-0-cust91.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 09:41.22 | rkr | Greetings, even. |
| 09:42.44 | CBG | Who is "even"? :P |
| 09:42.52 | rkr | Steven? |
| 09:42.57 | CBG | heh. |
| 09:45.42 | CBG | Uh oh! |
| 09:45.47 | rkr | (^& |
| 09:46.33 | CBG | I hate that smiley... :/ |
| 09:46.51 | jolie | hah |
| 09:47.09 | CBG | :D |
| 09:47.36 | CBG | I can see what it is, but why is it so special?? |
| 09:47.47 | CBG | Whats wrong with :) or 8) |
| 09:48.05 | jolie | even :o) |
| 09:48.09 | Pimpinella | http://www.harpshop.de/shop/product_info.php?products_id=114&osCsid=7ba7a21066e5cc0bf6322996d999ac84 |
| 09:48.16 | Pimpinella | my new baby :) |
| 09:48.43 | jolie | hahah |
| 09:48.59 | *** join/#bzflag _Manu_ (~jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 09:49.18 | Pimpinella | i love this harp |
| 09:49.39 | _Manu_ | harp? |
| 09:49.47 | Pimpinella | harp |
| 09:49.48 | _Manu_ | :) |
| 09:49.49 | CBG | Ahhh... A Harmonika? |
| 09:50.03 | Pimpinella | yep |
| 09:50.49 | CBG | Well, kudos to you if you can play it! :o |
| 09:51.07 | _Manu_ | Pimpinella, free day? :) |
| 09:51.30 | Pimpinella | nah, working on tax stuff |
| 09:51.38 | Pimpinella | wanna help me? ;) |
| 09:52.00 | ruskie | lol |
| 09:53.10 | Pimpinella | later |
| 09:55.02 | *** join/#bzflag _Manu_ (~jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 09:56.00 | _Manu_ | net problems fixed :/ |
| 09:57.08 | ruskie | what probs? |
| 09:57.21 | ruskie | hmm how I'd like to play some bzflag now... |
| 09:57.28 | _Manu_ | well don't receiving messages nor pings |
| 09:57.31 | ruskie | to bad this crappy work boxen can't do much... |
| 09:57.37 | _Manu_ | I mean irc |
| 09:58.39 | _Manu_ | I switched to irc.eu.freenode.net ring |
| 09:59.07 | ruskie | I just stick with the primary irc.freenode.net |
| 09:59.12 | ruskie | never had probs with it... |
| 10:00.30 | _Manu_ | I was direct connected to kornbluth.freenode.net because it works fine most of times.. but not now |
| 10:03.15 | *** join/#bzflag newbie_dont (~a@fw.newitech.pl) |
| 10:07.20 | jpa- | sgk284 <3<33 |
| 10:13.11 | *** join/#bzflag tango_ (~nome@adsl-ull-223-208.42-151.net24.it) |
| 10:26.48 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~atupone@host-84-222-139-232.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 10:27.33 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 10:40.29 | *** join/#bzflag Teppic (~Teppic@cpc1-cbly2-5-0-cust239.glfd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 10:48.06 | *** join/#bzflag Teppic (~Teppic@cpc1-cbly2-5-0-cust239.glfd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 10:49.40 | *** join/#bzflag Teppic (~Teppic@cpc1-cbly2-5-0-cust239.glfd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 10:54.13 | *** join/#bzflag Admirarch (1000@mwr25.christs.cam.ac.uk) |
| 10:55.10 | *** join/#bzflag Teppic (~Teppic@cpc1-cbly2-5-0-cust239.glfd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 10:59.04 | *** join/#bzflag _Manu_ (~jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 11:05.11 | *** join/#bzflag Admirarch (1000@mwr25.christs.cam.ac.uk) |
| 11:20.55 | *** join/#bzflag tankdriver (~aussie@203.221.127.240) |
| 11:21.27 | tankdriver | Hi, how do you get the lagstatus to work.. just type /lagstatus ? |
| 11:30.11 | jpa- | erm, /lagstats |
| 11:32.55 | tankdriver | Arrrr yes |
| 11:33.24 | tankdriver | Can I type it anytime? |
| 11:34.18 | jpa- | no, you have to be connected to a server |
| 11:34.23 | tankdriver | I am |
| 11:34.30 | tankdriver | I'm obing a game |
| 11:34.51 | jpa- | and though most servers allow anybody to use it, it is possible to prohibit it from non-admins |
| 11:35.12 | tankdriver | I see, that would explain it |
| 11:35.19 | tankdriver | Darn :( |
| 11:35.25 | jpa- | what does it say? |
| 11:35.31 | tankdriver | nothing at all |
| 11:35.37 | jpa- | humm |
| 11:35.45 | tankdriver | but I have seen it before |
| 11:36.00 | tankdriver | but I didn't remember what keys I pressed |
| 11:36.01 | jpa- | try to press "o", select "lag stats" with up/down arrows and press enter |
| 11:36.16 | tankdriver | ok thanks |
| 11:36.45 | jpa- | and you have to press "n" to open chat-promth before typing "/lagstats" |
| 11:37.03 | tankdriver | thanks that worked great :) |
| 11:37.15 | tankdriver | just pressing "o" did it |
| 11:37.26 | jpa- | yup, it is the default |
| 11:37.55 | tankdriver | I"m supprised that it might not be available on some servers. Why is this? |
| 11:38.35 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (~Matthew@cpc3-stme1-5-0-cust91.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 11:39.03 | jpa- | i've not seen a server that it is not available on |
| 11:39.14 | tankdriver | Ok ^_^ good stuff. |
| 11:39.18 | jpa- | but it is possible to remove it if the server admin wants to |
| 11:39.34 | CBG | whats this? |
| 11:39.49 | tankdriver | I"m just hopping my adsl connection starts this week, dialup and US servers, it not pretty |
| 11:41.50 | Tupone | you can, but don't do that too much, as your message will be taken as spam |
| 11:42.28 | jpa- | getting addicted on bzflag is no joy.. |
| 11:42.29 | tankdriver | bzflag seems to be pretty hungry when it comes to bandwidth. |
| 11:42.45 | jpa- | 5KByte/sec |
| 11:42.48 | jpa- | avg. |
| 11:43.38 | tankdriver | thanks guys/girls its a great game, but seems to take a bit of learning |
| 11:44.46 | Tupone | no it is not taking a lot to learn, just a simple rule ... easy to learn, difficult to master |
| 11:45.16 | tankdriver | Nods |
| 11:52.10 | Admirarch | This is most odd: After running bzflag without problems for months it now fails to start approximately two thirds of the time when run as any user other than root and -debug complains about "curl_easy_perform() error: 7". No appreciable system changes have been made. |
| 11:54.26 | Admirarch | (Linux, 2.0.1 and after upgrading to 2.0.2) |
| 12:02.10 | Tupone | Admirarch: can you upgrade to the last cvs version ? |
| 12:02.57 | Admirarch | Tupone: Sure, but I'm expecting it isn't a bzflag problem given that everything was working an hour ago |
| 12:03.47 | Tupone | but the new version, if fails, give us a better diagnostic :) |
| 12:05.25 | Admirarch | I'll be back with you in a bit then |
| 12:25.44 | Admirarch | This appears to be working fine, quite why I'm not sure but it solves any immediate problems |
| 12:30.45 | Tupone | well, that's ok. I fixed some problem with that |
| 12:36.00 | Admirarch | Many thanks |
| 12:39.20 | Tupone | yw |
| 12:57.23 | *** join/#bzflag carmeh (~3fa491c6@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
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| 13:35.57 | *** part/#bzflag bz4391 (~9f5b5bd4@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 13:36.40 | *** join/#bzflag LePoulpe303 (~LePoulpe3@AMontpellier-251-1-78-253.w83-201.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 13:38.24 | LePoulpe303 | anyone knows if there is a faster way than mybzflag wew site to know which players arecurrently connected ? |
| 13:39.10 | *** join/#bzflag sniperiid (~cristb@82.137.26.35) |
| 13:40.09 | *** join/#bzflag Birdie (~birdie@d51A465C1.access.telenet.be) |
| 13:55.07 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (~Matthew@cpc3-stme1-5-0-cust91.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 13:56.24 | *** join/#bzflag rkr (~rkr@socrates.olib.org) |
| 13:56.45 | rkr | hm... |
| 13:56.58 | rkr | The server doesn't like the /names command, i guess...(^& |
| 14:03.02 | *** join/#bzflag SportChick (~SportChic@ca-redbch-cuda1-c3b-b-183.stmnca.adelphia.net) |
| 14:11.01 | rkr | I could not see in the man page...how do you get bzflag to release the input focus in -window mode? |
| 14:13.51 | Chestal | rkr: there is some option, input menu I believe |
| 14:13.56 | Chestal | 'confine mouse' os similar |
| 14:14.04 | rkr | Ah...thanks. |
| 14:41.04 | Birdie | ~seen menotume |
| 14:41.05 | ibot | menotume <~meno@menotume.active.supporter.pdpc> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 13d 14h 35m 50s ago, saying: 'learner, do you know where brlcad is ?'. |
| 14:47.06 | jpa- | ~seen CBG |
| 14:47.07 | ibot | cbg <~Matthew@cpc3-stme1-5-0-cust91.cdif.cable.ntl.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 13d 17h 46m 18s ago, saying: 'yes. :D'. |
| 14:47.14 | jpa- | ibot sucks |
| 14:47.16 | ibot | Look who's talking |
| 14:47.44 | jpa- | TimRiker: ibot is living in the past, fix him :) |
| 14:58.34 | Grumbler | please, just stop now, dont let george lucas win.......he is the movie version of bill gates......please.....i am begging...... |
| 15:01.05 | jpa- | wtf |
| 15:01.06 | jpa- | 18:01:05 -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- Password identification is required for [IDENTIFY] |
| 15:04.22 | jpa- | bah |
| 15:16.45 | *** join/#bzflag tankdriver (~aussie@dialup-154.86.221.203.acc50-stge-pth.comindico.com.au) |
| 15:18.07 | *** join/#bzflag mmu_man (~revol@ALyon-253-1-25-207.w83-205.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 15:27.21 | *** join/#bzflag BearPerson (karsten@BearPerson.sourcemage) |
| 15:29.03 | tankdriver | night all |
| 15:32.42 | *** join/#bzflag menotume (~meno@menotume.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 15:49.06 | TimRiker | ~seen jpa- |
| 15:49.07 | ibot | jpa- is currently on #bzflag (20h 25m 39s). Has said a total of 25 messages. Is idling for 44m 45s |
| 15:49.19 | jpa- | :) |
| 15:49.30 | jpa- | ~seen tankdriver |
| 15:49.31 | ibot | jpa-: i haven't seen 'tankdriver' |
| 15:49.42 | jpa- | ah, just fixed? |
| 15:49.51 | TimRiker | I didn't do anything. |
| 15:49.59 | TimRiker | ibot: 1+1 |
| 15:50.01 | ibot | methinks 1+1 is 3 for large values of 1 |
| 15:50.49 | jpa- | so why does ibot suck? |
| 15:51.02 | jpa- | you can see, tankdriver quit like 30 min ago |
| 15:51.09 | jpa- | why doesn't ibot remember? |
| 15:52.48 | TimRiker | don't know. |
| 15:52.54 | TimRiker | ~pw |
| 15:52.55 | ibot | hmm... patches welcome is a common response by maintainers of Open Source products. It's roughly means "We don't have much time on our hands, so if you write that feature and send it to us we will likely roll it in. If you don't have the time to write it, we don't either. Stop asking for it." |
| 15:53.25 | jpa- | the feature is there, it just doesn't work :P |
| 15:59.32 | *** join/#bzflag Guest003 (~8b0d7f81@genesis.concept69.de) |
| 16:01.53 | *** join/#bzflag SportyGal (sportygali@67-21-174-30.stmnca.adelphia.net) |
| 16:04.52 | *** join/#bzflag BenUrban (~benurban@pcp07709741pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net) |
| 16:07.35 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (~Matthew@cpc3-stme1-5-0-cust91.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 16:08.06 | CBG | JeffM2501 OR any other bb admins: Double Post on the bzbb at http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewforum.php?f=64 |
| 16:55.53 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@host-84-222-139-232.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 16:55.53 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 16:56.46 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~JeffM@JeffM2501.sustaining.supporter.pdpc) |
| 16:56.46 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 17:08.26 | *** join/#bzflag blast007_ (~blast@24-196-92-143.jvl.wi.charter.com) |
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| 17:23.20 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v jolie] by ChanServ |
| 17:33.46 | *** join/#bzflag Dhraakellian (~ntryon@cpe-66-67-53-29.rochester.res.rr.com) |
| 17:33.55 | Dhraakellian | oh, hey, there's a bzflag chan |
| 17:34.08 | Dhraakellian | and on a network to which I'm already connected |
| 17:34.08 | jpa- | no |
| 17:34.23 | jpa- | this channel is about Birdie's gender |
| 17:36.39 | DTRemenak | ~gender Birdie |
| 17:36.40 | ibot | Birdie is hermaphroditic |
| 17:37.15 | *** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast007@24-196-92-143.jvl.wi.charter.com) |
| 17:37.36 | Tupone | Dhraakellian: this channel is the main channel for bzflag developer, and even an help channel |
| 17:39.04 | Tupone | not for organizing bzflag tournament, there is a =nother channel for that |
| 17:42.03 | *** join/#bzflag ToughShooter (~ts@p54B023BF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:42.41 | Tupone | ~jpa--- |
| 17:43.04 | fabianne | oh |
| 17:43.05 | jpa- | hmph |
| 17:43.10 | Birdie | tupone is my bud! |
| 17:43.31 | jpa- | sorry Birdie |
| 17:43.35 | Tupone | that is just for the bad answer to a channel newbie |
| 17:43.48 | fabianne | lol* |
| 17:43.54 | jpa- | aha |
| 17:43.55 | fabianne | chill ;) |
| 17:44.01 | jpa- | he doesn't care about Birdie anyway :) |
| 17:44.29 | fabianne | actually Dhraakellian this channel isnt real, its all a dream.. we are a product of your mind :D |
| 17:44.41 | Tupone | ~fabianne-- |
| 17:44.52 | blast007 | lol |
| 17:45.47 | jpa- | Dhraakellian: this channel is the main channel for bzflag developer, and even an help channel |
| 17:46.16 | Tupone | ~jpa--- |
| 17:46.21 | jpa- | hmph |
| 17:46.29 | Tupone | for echoing |
| 17:47.03 | fabianne | oh yeah Dhraakellian we have a channel where we complain about tupone aswell :D |
| 17:47.07 | fabianne | haha jk ;) |
| 17:53.48 | Dhraakellian | heh |
| 17:54.12 | Dhraakellian | well, I'm no stranger to IRC tech stuff, and I'm an expert at lurking |
| 17:54.35 | jpa- | you're not doing very well.. |
| 17:54.50 | Dhraakellian | not at the moment, no |
| 17:54.51 | jpa- | 4 directed messages in 20 minutes |
| 17:55.04 | jpa- | you've been noticed! |
| 17:55.15 | blast007 | :) |
| 17:56.36 | fabianne | HEY! |
| 17:56.39 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (~timr@proxysb01.ext.ti.com) |
| 17:56.40 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 17:57.44 | jpa- | fabianne: sorry, but blast007 is a carnivore |
| 17:57.53 | fabianne | dude... |
| 17:57.55 | fabianne | >_< |
| 17:59.14 | blast007 | jpa-: carnivore != cannibal |
| 17:59.35 | jpa- | fabianne == flesh |
| 18:00.02 | TimRiker | mmmm. grapes |
| 18:01.18 | jpa- | :/ |
| 18:01.22 | jpa- | i suck at this |
| 18:01.25 | jpa- | fabianne: teach me |
| 18:01.44 | fabianne | first you wash the grapes.... |
| 18:01.54 | fabianne | then you approach slowly to the person |
| 18:01.58 | jpa- | i don't have any grapes |
| 18:02.08 | jpa- | only grapefruit and fabianne |
| 18:02.25 | fabianne | then you give the grapes to him, mouth to mouth, or by softly introducing them with ur fingers.. |
| 18:02.33 | fabianne | but i guess charma is need it :P |
| 18:03.04 | Tupone | rkr: you are here ? |
| 18:04.01 | blast007 | hmm...ibot seems to be having issues...keep getting "exceeded allowed forked count" |
| 18:04.31 | jpa- | he had issues earlier today too |
| 18:05.41 | blast007 | :) |
| 18:06.34 | Tupone | CIA is missing my commit :( |
| 18:14.38 | *** join/#bzflag ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 18:14.38 | *** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org/ || http://my.BZFlag.org/bb/ || http://my.BZFlag.org/ || http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag || http://BZFlag.org/wiki/GettingHelp || http://BZFlag.org/wiki/Download || http://bzflag.org/wiki/MapMaking |
| 18:14.38 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 18:15.04 | Tupone | I suppose you have GL include file under /usr/X11R6/include/GL |
| 18:15.08 | rkr | Um. i can't find AC_X_PATH in configure.ac. |
| 18:15.21 | Tupone | AC_PATH_XTRA sorry |
| 18:15.31 | rkr | AC_PATH_XTRA...ah, yes, was about to say I could find *that*. (^& |
| 18:15.58 | rkr | Okay, autogenning... |
| 18:16.17 | rkr | ./configuring... |
| 18:16.30 | rkr | What am I looking to see fixed by this? The compilation issue? |
| 18:16.42 | Tupone | when you will update again, be sure the file do not get merge conflict |
| 18:17.02 | Tupone | it will say building client or something |
| 18:17.53 | rkr | Oh, I wouldn't count on that. GNU autoconf has trouble finding OpenGL without explicit LDFLAGS= params on the ./configure line. (^& |
| 18:18.16 | Tupone | where it has to look at for library ? |
| 18:18.47 | rkr | In /usr/X11R6/lib (or, better, /usr/pkg/lib). |
| 18:19.00 | rkr | It tends not to get necessary rpath info set, however. |
| 18:19.14 | Tupone | so /usr/X11R6/lib will work ? |
| 18:19.28 | rkr | It will. If you also add it explicitly to the rpath when linking. |
| 18:19.50 | rkr | autoconf doesn't figure that out and tends to believe that OpenGL doesn't exist. |
| 18:19.54 | *** join/#bzflag bz4713 (~d111b7f9@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 18:20.01 | Tupone | wait a moment if you can |
| 18:20.01 | bz4713 | p |
| 18:20.05 | rkr | (Or doesn't work.) |
| 18:20.06 | bz4713 | ; |
| 18:20.07 | fabianne | q |
| 18:20.24 | blast007 | bz4713: need something? :) |
| 18:20.27 | blast007 | hrm.. |
| 18:20.30 | blast007 | apparently not |
| 18:20.46 | rkr | (The usual solution is to do: LDFLAGS="-L/usr/X11R6/lib -Wl,-R/usr/X11R6/lib" ./configure |
| 18:21.10 | Tupone | LIBS="$LIBS $X_LIBS" << try adding this line too, just after the other |
| 18:22.08 | rkr | Okay...right now it's in the middle of an attempted compilation with just your change. Do you want me to abort or let it finish? (It's on bzfs.cxx now.) |
| 18:22.23 | Tupone | abort, I want to build the client too |
| 18:22.38 | Tupone | the main things is that configure should detect you system |
| 18:22.47 | rkr | Okay. |
| 18:22.49 | Tupone | and set flag |
| 18:23.23 | *** join/#bzflag Naruto_ (cc@h118n2fls307o1101.telia.com) |
| 18:23.33 | rkr | You mean set LDFLAGS? |
| 18:23.50 | Tupone | LIBS="$LIBS $X_LIBS" << I said this |
| 18:24.00 | rkr | Yes. I got that. |
| 18:24.01 | Tupone | on the configure.ac |
| 18:24.20 | rkr | Yes. You said "and set flag", though. Did you mean something else in addition to the LIBS= line? |
| 18:24.32 | Tupone | no |
| 18:24.43 | rkr | Okay. |
| 18:24.48 | Tupone | you should have added 2 lines CPPFLAGS and LIBS |
| 18:25.05 | *** part/#bzflag Naruto_ (cc@h118n2fls307o1101.telia.com) |
| 18:25.21 | rkr | Yes. |
| 18:25.28 | rkr | The tail end of ./configure is now: |
| 18:25.34 | rkr | BZFlag-2.0.3.20050621 with the following: |
| 18:25.34 | rkr | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:25.34 | rkr | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:25.34 | rkr | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:25.34 | rkr | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:25.41 | rkr | I assume that that's good news. |
| 18:25.45 | Tupone | yeah |
| 18:26.04 | Tupone | try building and then I wanna see what library the various exe require |
| 18:27.14 | rkr | Okay. I will say that the /usr/X11R6/lib version of OpenGL is a bit old and has a 64-bit issue that causes crashes of the X server in some cases. I can compile, but don't want to run the client without telling it to use a different OpenGL (via LDFLAGS to take precedence...) |
| 18:27.44 | rkr | gmake clean && gmake in progress. |
| 18:28.13 | Tupone | ah .. ok .. that is a problem then ... |
| 18:28.21 | Tupone | cannot say that runtime? |
| 18:28.38 | rkr | rpath info...(^& |
| 18:29.04 | rkr | NetBSD discourages mucking with, or even having/using ld.so.conf. I'd rather not buck the OS trend on that. |
| 18:29.44 | rkr | The solution that seems to work is LDFLAGS="-L/usr/pkg/lib -Wl,-R/usr/pkg/lib" (/usr/pkg being the default prefix for pkgsrc, from which a more recent OpenGL was built...) |
| 18:29.50 | Tupone | so where are you going to get the X library ? |
| 18:29.58 | Tupone | ah ok , get the answer |
| 18:30.23 | rkr | I guess I could set it on an env. var when running... |
| 18:30.30 | Tupone | --x-libraries=DIR |
| 18:30.41 | Tupone | perhaps :/ |
| 18:30.45 | rkr | Anywa, it's churning away on a build. Now on bzfsPlugins.Tpo. |
| 18:31.06 | rkr | CustomeGroup. |
| 18:31.22 | Tupone | So, your problem of building from CVS is about to be solved ... or you have other issue on that ? |
| 18:31.23 | *** join/#bzflag Naruto_ (cc@h118n2fls307o1101.telia.com) |
| 18:32.05 | rkr | We'll see. (^& So far, it looks like it might be mostly solved, at least to the extent that bzflag can fix it. |
| 18:32.28 | rkr | (I don't think that bzflag should have to worry about which OpenGL I'm using; if it can find "the system" OpenGL, that should be good enough...) |
| 18:32.42 | Tupone | ok, then you can see if even the crash is resolved or I have to research more |
| 18:32.48 | rkr | (So long as I can override it, anyway...(^&) |
| 18:33.46 | *** join/#bzflag BenUrban (~benurban@68.32.118.193) |
| 18:33.52 | rkr | We'll see. I'll let you know when I know. thanks! |
| 18:34.01 | Tupone | yw |
| 18:37.49 | rkr | Hm. It's done. Or at least it's stopped. |
| 18:39.01 | rkr | Some warnings bout possibly conflicts of libraries, and then a string of undefined references, e.g., to Bzfwindow::addResizeCallback(), BzfWindow::addExposeCallback(), ... |
| 18:39.44 | Tupone | could you pastebin your result? |
| 18:40.03 | Tupone | ~pastebin |
| 18:40.05 | ibot | it has been said that pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.ca |
| 18:40.06 | rkr | Pastebin? You mean copy it here in irc, or..? |
| 18:40.17 | BenUrban | ~rafb |
| 18:40.44 | BenUrban | rafb is Read a F***ing Book, where you can paste stuff without flooding the channel - try http://rafb.net/paste/ |
| 18:40.53 | BenUrban | ~rafb |
| 18:41.00 | BenUrban | hmm, did i use the wrong syntax? |
| 18:41.26 | BenUrban | ibot: rafb is Read a F***ing Book, where you can paste stuff without flooding the channel - try http://rafb.net/paste/ |
| 18:41.27 | ibot | BenUrban: okay |
| 18:41.30 | BenUrban | ~rafb |
| 18:41.31 | ibot | methinks rafb is Read a F***ing Book, where you can paste stuff without flooding the channel - try http://rafb.net/paste/ |
| 18:41.34 | BenUrban | better |
| 18:41.43 | rkr | How about the .ca site that was given first? (^& |
| 18:41.49 | BenUrban | ~pastebin |
| 18:41.51 | ibot | i heard pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.ca |
| 18:41.54 | BenUrban | i hear it's down |
| 18:42.00 | BenUrban | or at least it was at some point today |
| 18:42.35 | rkr | I'm at it right now, so it seems to be up. |
| 18:42.37 | jpa- | BenUrban: you are flooding the channel by telling how not to flood the channel.. |
| 18:42.44 | BenUrban | lol sorry |
| 18:42.48 | BenUrban | ah ok |
| 18:43.28 | Birdie | since when is jpa- some one to "try to do good" here? |
| 18:43.38 | jpa- | i'm not |
| 18:43.51 | BenUrban | everyone gets annoyed by flooding |
| 18:43.52 | jpa- | i just found a new way of being evil |
| 18:43.53 | rkr | i'll set a 12 hour expiration on it. (^& |
| 18:43.56 | BenUrban | LMAO |
| 18:44.27 | rkr | it's pasted. |
| 18:44.34 | BenUrban | you gotta give us the url |
| 18:44.35 | Tupone | number/name url ? |
| 18:44.52 | rkr | Warnings/errors... http://pastebin.ca/15377 |
| 18:46.35 | Tupone | I miss the link command :( would you mind do a make redirecting the output and then pasting all |
| 18:47.09 | rkr | Ah, I didn't know you needed that...okay, I'll redo that... |
| 18:47.14 | Tupone | just doing the make in the stage you are, without clearing all the object |
| 18:47.44 | rkr | Too late, I'm afraid; I was trying with LDFLAGS set to see if it would help to pick up anything from /usr/pkg (unlikely, but...) |
| 18:47.56 | Tupone | well ok |
| 18:48.18 | rkr | Hey, it's only computer time. (^& |
| 18:48.18 | Tupone | I just wondering why you get all duplicated library ,, standard and new ? |
| 18:48.48 | Tupone | I saw that even in the configure.log |
| 18:48.54 | rkr | You mean like on line 1? |
| 18:49.02 | Tupone | yeah |
| 18:49.40 | rkr | Probably because libcurl was built from pkgsrc, so it used the most up-to-date SSL, which is in pkgsrc, but bzflag was compiling without -L/-Wl,-R to grab from /usr/pkg, so it got the old base system ssl... |
| 18:50.44 | Tupone | that means we cannot autodetect that ... ./configure LDFLAGS="-L/-Wl,-R" whatever is |
| 18:50.49 | Tupone | should work |
| 18:50.49 | rkr | (pkgsrc doesn't overwrite system libraries; one reason is that one may want the old version due to compatibility breakage. Another is that you can delete packages, and you don't want to lose core functionality like SSL...) |
| 18:52.22 | rkr | I kinda figured. the current build has LDFLAGS= set on the ./configure line. With luck the warnings will go away... |
| 18:53.09 | Tupone | LDFLAGS before ./configure or after ? |
| 18:53.24 | rkr | Before, so it gets passed in in the environment. |
| 18:53.35 | rkr | LDFLAGS=... ./configure |
| 18:53.41 | Tupone | better after, so reconfigure works again |
| 18:53.59 | Tupone | New version of automake/autoconf shoulw work that way |
| 18:54.12 | rkr | Hm...I've not had problems with that in recent autoconf... |
| 18:54.44 | Tupone | what I meant, being passed as an environment variable, it work the first time only |
| 18:55.04 | Tupone | when you re-run configure, automatically , it will get nothing |
| 18:55.05 | rkr | I understood. |
| 18:55.29 | Tupone | normally you just re-compile, so no problem |
| 18:55.32 | rkr | I had the impression that ./configure was saving that from the environment. |
| 18:55.55 | Tupone | I guess not, even if I have not made specific test |
| 18:56.13 | *** part/#bzflag Dhraakellian (~ntryon@cpe-66-67-53-29.rochester.res.rr.com) |
| 18:56.37 | rkr | Hm. Interesting, as i've been doing it this way for some time in maintaining a small library, and it seems to remember the env. var. setting... |
| 18:56.50 | rkr | Which version of autoconf? |
| 18:57.28 | Tupone | 2.15 does not support the variable passed to configure, just env vars are ok |
| 18:57.39 | rkr | I'm not using 2.15. I'm using 2.59. |
| 18:57.43 | Tupone | the 2.50 family seems to support the new way |
| 18:58.04 | Tupone | I know |
| 18:58.19 | rkr | 'new way" being what you describe (only use env. vars. once)? |
| 18:58.54 | Tupone | new way: variable are specified after configure and saved in the config file and reused |
| 18:59.05 | rkr | hm...still gets warnings. |
| 18:59.22 | rkr | Okay, how much of this thing do you want to see? Whole file, or just from the link line? |
| 18:59.50 | Tupone | problem to pasting all the file ? |
| 18:59.57 | Tupone | s/to// |
| 19:00.08 | rkr | No. Just didn't know you wanted to wade through it. (^& |
| 19:00.53 | Tupone | looking for something that I don't know ... I prefer seeing all :/ |
| 19:01.12 | rkr | Actually, maybe a problem. I was going to upload, but it says it won't let me upload more than 60K. |
| 19:01.18 | rkr | The buildlog is a little over twice that. |
| 19:01.37 | Tupone | ok, then from the final link |
| 19:01.56 | rkr | How about I toss it on my web server in a scratch dir and give you apointer for that? (^& |
| 19:02.40 | rkr | http://www.olib.org/~rkr/scratch/bzflag.make |
| 19:03.38 | rkr | (I assume that that is not a problem to access...) |
| 19:03.57 | Tupone | about c-ares, if you want ... better install c-ares in the system and configure curl to use c-ares |
| 19:05.27 | rkr | i'm not sure what c-ares is, exactly. I only care about it at all because it had a file that couldn't be found from CVS when trying to "make dist". |
| 19:07.28 | Tupone | c-ares is an aynchronous DNS, it means that can resolv DNS names without blocking the thread. Resolving names sometimes block bzfag rendering for a while so you can lag |
| 19:07.42 | Tupone | your platform directory is empty |
| 19:07.45 | Tupone | ? |
| 19:08.28 | rkr | You mean src/platform? |
| 19:08.57 | Tupone | yeah |
| 19:08.58 | rkr | src/platform has a bunch of stuff... BeOSDisplay, ... wave.h and lots inbetween. |
| 19:08.59 | Tupone | no obj |
| 19:09.09 | rkr | Oh. No objects, yeah. |
| 19:09.12 | Tupone | :( |
| 19:09.21 | Tupone | have you ever build bzflag ? |
| 19:09.50 | Tupone | or you just run linux program in a compatibility mode? |
| 19:09.55 | rkr | Yes. Prior to DTRemanak(sp) making the pkgsrc, I did it with some hair-pulling. |
| 19:09.57 | Tupone | or something similar |
| 19:10.15 | rkr | Then subsequently, I just built the package from pkgsrc. |
| 19:10.26 | rkr | (Actually, I've built the 1.x clients as well, from pkgsrc...) |
| 19:10.39 | rkr | But only once did I build it "by hand". |
| 19:11.01 | rkr | AT the time, it required some passes with sed to remove some LINUXisms... |
| 19:11.02 | Tupone | SDL is working? |
| 19:11.14 | *** join/#bzflag blast007` (~blast007@24-196-92-143.jvl.wi.charter.com) |
| 19:11.15 | rkr | Seems to be. (^& |
| 19:12.34 | rkr | Hm. still have a bunch of LINUX_TRUE's... |
| 19:14.05 | rkr | Interesting. My memory of what was done is a bit fuzzy, but the Makefile from pkgsrc is patching src/platform/Makefile.in with a couple of sed lines. |
| 19:14.12 | rkr | SUBST_FILES.fixme= src/platform/Makefile.in |
| 19:14.12 | rkr | SUBST_SED.fixme= -e "s|@LINUX_TRUE@||g" |
| 19:14.12 | rkr | SUBST_SED.fixme+= -e "s|@LINUX_FALSE@|\#|g" |
| 19:14.28 | *** part/#bzflag ToughShooter (~ts@p54B023BF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:14.34 | Tupone | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:14.45 | Tupone | look at a line similar to this in configure.ac |
| 19:15.20 | rkr | Doesn't have the |netbsd* |
| 19:15.24 | Tupone | without netbsd :) |
| 19:15.27 | Tupone | add it |
| 19:15.35 | blast007 | b: |
| 19:15.36 | rkr | Already doing that...(^& |
| 19:15.39 | blast007 | er.. |
| 19:15.57 | blast007 | too many keyboards... |
| 19:18.11 | rkr | Okay, re-autogened, re-./configured and am now re-running gmake to a logfile. |
| 19:18.20 | Tupone | ok |
| 19:18.41 | Grumbler | netbsd, what crazy OS is that? :) |
| 19:18.55 | rkr | the oldest open source BSD. |
| 19:19.07 | rkr | sister to FreeBSD, parent to OpenBSD. |
| 19:19.30 | rkr | Popular in some corners. (^& |
| 19:20.09 | Grumbler | his./my....ug, i am jsut off todya |
| 19:20.11 | rkr | (^& |
| 19:24.59 | *** join/#bzflag |zongo| (~zongo@lsn-boi-catv-c126-p081.vtx.ch) |
| 19:25.49 | rkr | Well, .../src/platform is populated with .o files, now. |
| 19:25.55 | Tupone | good |
| 19:25.56 | rkr | At least some... |
| 19:25.57 | Tupone | but ? |
| 19:26.22 | rkr | Still compiling the rest. Id did a gmake clean first, since config stuff was changing... |
| 19:26.46 | Tupone | well, you don't need to clean |
| 19:26.53 | Tupone | at least I don't don it |
| 19:27.01 | rkr | I tend to be paranoid about that. |
| 19:27.19 | rkr | And it's only computer time... |
| 19:29.30 | rkr | http://www.olib.org/~rkr/scratch/bzflag.makeNow the log file is 155047 bytes long, and it bails out with new and exciting errors. |
| 19:29.55 | rkr | (Update from same URL, if I didn't screw that up...) |
| 19:31.21 | rkr | First one looks like an ncurses/curses problem...shouldn't the code be #including only one or the other header? |
| 19:31.24 | Tupone | bzflag seems ok |
| 19:32.13 | Tupone | do you need bzadmin? :) |
| 19:32.24 | rkr | no, I guess not. Not from this build anyway. (^& |
| 19:33.09 | rkr | ./bzflag |
| 19:33.09 | rkr | No fonts found (the -directory option may help). Exiting |
| 19:33.18 | rkr | I remember seeing that when I built by hand before... |
| 19:33.35 | Tupone | you build in the same directory of source file? |
| 19:34.04 | rkr | Um, I don't think I understand your question. |
| 19:34.22 | Tupone | you run ./configure ? |
| 19:34.24 | rkr | The compiled executable was put in .../src/bzflag/bzflag (binary file) by the gmake. |
| 19:34.30 | rkr | Yes, I ran ./configure. |
| 19:34.59 | Tupone | ok ... lok at ~/.bzf/2.0/config.cfg for a directory item |
| 19:35.02 | blast007 | ./bzflag -directory ../../data/ |
| 19:35.26 | Tupone | follow blast suggestion |
| 19:35.53 | Tupone | or from the root do a "ln -sf src/bzflag/bzflag" and run from there |
| 19:36.11 | rkr | Ack. Ran, but when I exited, it did not reset the display. Hit a memory fauilt. |
| 19:36.44 | Tupone | next debugging session ... I need to feed myself :) |
| 19:37.24 | rkr | Heh. Well, thanks for this. I'll see if it works in other regards... |
| 19:38.19 | rkr | If you're still around, here's a starter: The bt in gdb says it happens in PlaySound or similar. |
| 19:38.32 | rkr | And anytime I select an item from the main bzflag menu, it dies. |
| 19:38.44 | Tupone | only when you exit? |
| 19:38.53 | *** join/#bzflag jolie (~alex@p54A735FD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:38.53 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v jolie] by ChanServ |
| 19:39.01 | blast007 | it plays a sound when you select a menu item |
| 19:39.16 | *** join/#bzflag Thumper_ (~bernt@CPE000102d0fe75-CM0012256ecbde.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 19:40.07 | rkr | No, anytime I select any menu item. |
| 19:40.20 | jpa- | rkr: select or press enter? |
| 19:40.27 | rkr | If we trust gdb, which only has a single frame backtrace, it happens in playsound. |
| 19:40.41 | Pimpinella | saturn asked me for a program to " hide my ip from the bzflag server" :) |
| 19:40.41 | jpa- | it plays "click" sound when you press enter |
| 19:40.41 | rkr | PRess enter; activate. Not just move the highlight. |
| 19:41.26 | blast007 | Pimpinella: haha :) |
| 19:42.10 | Tupone | I guess there is a -mute option on bzflag |
| 19:43.17 | Aribeth | :P |
| 19:45.23 | rkr | Okay, -mute solves that problem. I can now play bzflag. |
| 19:45.58 | Aribeth | eek! |
| 19:46.08 | Aribeth | :P |
| 19:46.17 | rkr | I am unable to induce the pester-a-server crash. But I was also unable to reproduce that with 2.0.2 client. |
| 19:47.15 | rkr | Well, innocent by evil grinning pumpkin standards. |
| 19:49.26 | *** join/#bzflag Naruto_ (cc@h118n2fls307o1101.telia.com) |
| 19:50.56 | Tupone | ok ... seems good then . Have to investigate the curses and the sound problem |
| 19:51.02 | Naruto_ | anyone knows what's up with MOFO server? |
| 19:53.32 | *** join/#bzflag creeperz (Meatwad@host-57-142-230-24.midco.net) |
| 19:54.16 | rkr | I think that I'm due to take a break. (^& |
| 19:54.41 | rkr | Oh, and thanks again, tupone. (^& |
| 19:54.51 | Tupone | yw |
| 20:00.41 | *** join/#bzflag [brad] (brad2901@ACCB0831.ipt.aol.com) |
| 20:05.22 | Tupone | rkr: I suspect curses is borked OS side :/ |
| 20:14.25 | *** join/#bzflag [brad] (brad2901@brad2901.user) |
| 20:24.55 | [brad] | o_O |
| 20:25.00 | bunny | scary... |
| 20:25.12 | bunny | dude you washed ur fingers right? |
| 20:25.20 | bunny | ah mouth... |
| 20:25.23 | Aribeth | man |
| 20:25.23 | bunny | yuk |
| 20:25.28 | Aribeth | ick |
| 20:25.45 | bunny | hi Aribeth |
| 20:25.49 | Aribeth | hi |
| 20:26.49 | bunny | but theres no more grapes.. |
| 20:26.54 | bunny | theres kiwis... |
| 20:27.24 | [brad] | (is that spelt right? :\ ) |
| 20:27.45 | jpa- | :/ |
| 20:27.45 | bunny | coconuts |
| 20:28.01 | Birdie | lol this was the channel for bzflag and stuff? |
| 20:28.19 | Aribeth | it was |
| 20:28.20 | [brad] | Don't be silly Birdie.. :) |
| 20:28.26 | bunny | :D |
| 20:28.37 | jpa- | bunny: i think you were j/k with me.. or teached something wrong |
| 20:28.44 | Tupone | people, please ... stay on topic |
| 20:28.52 | bunny | dude before mouth to mouth.. you gotta have da chram.. |
| 20:28.54 | bunny | without it.. |
| 20:28.59 | bunny | ur just a pervert :P |
| 20:29.02 | jpa- | we need Aribeth and [brad] to #hug-bunny |
| 20:29.03 | Tupone | there is other channel for that |
| 20:29.50 | Aribeth | Tupone, is ChanServ a bot? |
| 20:30.06 | Tupone | technically yes |
| 20:30.11 | TimRiker | Aribeth: yes. though not a normal one. it runs on the irc server. |
| 20:30.17 | Tupone | is something from freenode |
| 20:30.56 | TimRiker | Aribeth: it's called dancer-services and includes ChanServ, MemoServ, NickServ and others. |
| 20:30.58 | Aribeth | TimRiker, would the code be available to ChanServ and ibot for me to look at? |
| 20:31.16 | Aribeth | ahh |
| 20:31.27 | TimRiker | Aribeth: yes on both. see the dancer-services project for chanserv and blootbot for ibot. |
| 20:32.07 | TimRiker | you're not likely to get any additions approved upstream on dancer-services. on the otherhand I'm eager to get improvements to ibot. ;-) |
| 20:32.10 | TimRiker | ~blootbot |
| 20:32.11 | ibot | i heard blootbot is an IRC bot written in perl descended from infobot. Hosted on SF. Patches welcome, submit on SF or mailto:Tim@Rikers.org, or http://blootbot.sourceforge.net/,. I am a blootbot |
| 20:33.09 | Aribeth | im experimenting with a local irc server just for personal use |
| 20:40.37 | menotume | Anyone know if there is a sql script to create the tables needed for bzflist ? |
| 20:40.44 | menotume | i'm trying to set one up for testing |
| 20:42.01 | menotume | epppp, nvm, i think i may have found one :) |
| 20:50.27 | *** join/#bzflag brad2901 (brad2901@brad2901.user) |
| 20:51.12 | brad2901 | wth.. everytime I run BZFlag it and xchat crash.. |
| 20:56.36 | menotume | only if xchat is running ? |
| 20:57.02 | brad2901 | I haven't tried closing xchat |
| 20:57.16 | menotume | well, what changed ? |
| 20:57.21 | brad2901 | Oh.. and.. |
| 20:57.32 | brad2901 | the menu text is all screwed up |
| 20:57.46 | brad2901 | It's just rectangles |
| 20:57.50 | menotume | hmm |
| 20:58.02 | brad2901 | I havne't changed anything....... |
| 20:58.05 | menotume | O/S ? |
| 20:58.11 | brad2901 | Windows Xp |
| 20:58.21 | menotume | last reboot? :) |
| 20:58.30 | brad2901 | 4weeks, 1 day ago :) |
| 20:58.37 | menotume | wow |
| 20:58.44 | menotume | pretty good for WinDoze |
| 20:58.48 | brad2901 | yup |
| 20:58.59 | menotume | may be overdue, dunno |
| 20:59.04 | brad2901 | Hrm |
| 20:59.09 | brad2901 | :( |
| 20:59.23 | Aribeth | probably does need a reboot |
| 20:59.37 | Aribeth | XP gets kinda messed up after awhile |
| 20:59.44 | brad2901 | heh |
| 20:59.46 | brad2901 | yeah |
| 20:59.57 | brad2901 | ok, i'll do that a bit later |
| 21:00.05 | brad2901 | thanks menotume and Aribeth :) |
| 21:00.11 | Aribeth | nnp |
| 21:06.51 | *** part/#bzflag _Manu_ (~jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 21:11.41 | menotume | mnp |
| 21:25.25 | menotume | ugggg. i need a listserver expert |
| 21:25.26 | menotume | I setup a listserver, can get to it from a browser, but bzfs doesn't seem to know how to get to it (I set -publiclist) |
| 21:27.28 | *** join/#bzflag Sporty (~SportChic@ca-redbch-cuda1-c3b-b-183.stmnca.adelphia.net) |
| 21:29.18 | menotume | could someone hit this url for me? http://meno.zapto.org/bzlist?action=ADD |
| 21:29.31 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@DHCP-170-84.caltech.edu) |
| 21:29.31 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v DTRemenak] by ChanServ |
| 21:29.49 | menotume | thanks, whoever it was :) |
| 21:29.51 | brad2901 | menotume: "MSG: ADD" |
| 21:29.58 | menotume | right, thx brad |
| 21:29.59 | brad2901 | That's all I got |
| 21:30.02 | brad2901 | np ;) |
| 21:30.03 | menotume | yep |
| 21:30.43 | Tupone | 301 Moved Permanently |
| 21:30.55 | menotume | huh ? |
| 21:31.12 | menotume | hmmm |
| 21:31.15 | Grumbler | JeffM2501< apt-get update iis painless.....apt-get upgrade is not |
| 21:31.17 | Tupone | curl http://meno.zapto.org/bzlist?action=ADD |
| 21:31.21 | TimRiker | menotume: you want http://meno.zapto.org/bzlist/?action=ADD |
| 21:31.26 | JeffM2501 | I did upgrade :) |
| 21:31.45 | menotume | TimRiker: thx, should be the same |
| 21:32.08 | Tupone | the message he gaves me is a redirection |
| 21:32.09 | TimRiker | menotume: no. one gets a 301 and the other does not. ie: one works with bzflag and the other does not. |
| 21:32.17 | Grumbler | JeffM2501< have you changed the apt-get source list since they moved to sarge......or are you pointing directly at sarge.......? |
| 21:32.18 | menotume | ah haa |
| 21:32.47 | Tupone | that is the way to test :) curl http://meno.zapto.org/bzlist?action=ADD |
| 21:32.50 | JeffM2501 | Grumbler, I dono :) |
| 21:32.58 | menotume | YAY, that's it |
| 21:33.04 | Grumbler | 'cause sarge was released recently, and it hasnt changed in the last few weeks |
| 21:33.06 | menotume | thx TimRiker and Tupone |
| 21:33.29 | JeffM2501 | Grumbler, sasami was done when sarge was testing |
| 21:33.34 | Tupone | if we want to support for redirection in bzflag I think I can do easily |
| 21:33.35 | TimRiker | menotume: what 'cha hackin' on? |
| 21:33.53 | TimRiker | Tupone: except that existing clients/servers don't handle it. |
| 21:34.04 | Grumbler | JeffM2501< look at /etc/apt*/source*list file....should tell you went repository you are pointing at |
| 21:34.08 | Tupone | yeah :) |
| 21:34.32 | TimRiker | Tupone: better to fix the web server so that it's not needed. cuts the web requests in half. |
| 21:35.09 | Tupone | yes, only problem if there is a lightning strike, but that will hit the database too :/ |
| 21:35.49 | Tupone | and there are other way to handle it |
| 21:36.30 | Grumbler | JeffM2501< you should have something like deb ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/ stable main ....where the word "stable" can be "testing|stable|sarge|somethingelse" |
| 21:37.05 | Grumbler | ......most of the apt-gets for sarge have been painless the last month.5 or so |
| 21:39.40 | *** join/#bzflag BearPerson (karsten@BearPerson.sourcemage) |
| 21:39.45 | menotume | TimRiker: ahhh, i'm hacking a private server with global login |
| 21:40.41 | *** join/#bzflag wizart (~wizart@dsl-084-058-136-104.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:40.56 | menotume | TimRiker and Tupone: my 'fix' was to put a '/' at the end of the -publiclist param |
| 21:41.08 | Tupone | yeah |
| 21:41.16 | JeffM2501 | Grumbler, it was on testing, I just changed it to stable and am updating again |
| 21:42.41 | Grumbler | JeffM2501< dont suppose you would know how to tell windows not to go looking to dns for a single web address would you? ie. bubba.web.com = (lan address) |
| 21:43.00 | JeffM2501 | add it to your lmhosts file |
| 21:43.01 | menotume | there's a hosts file, i think |
| 21:43.05 | BearPerson | I think there's an %WINDIR%\lmhosts, yeah |
| 21:43.28 | JeffM2501 | BearPerson, depends on what version of windows you have |
| 21:43.36 | JeffM2501 | Grumbler, just search for lmhosts |
| 21:43.39 | JeffM2501 | it's a text file |
| 21:44.34 | JeffM2501 | if you have spyware checkers installed, they may not like you editing that file tho |
| 21:44.40 | JeffM2501 | as it's a common hijack method |
| 21:44.57 | JeffM2501 | wow that's a prety dumb router |
| 21:45.20 | Grumbler | its a nimo wireless as well, you think they would handle that better......arg |
| 21:47.53 | *** part/#bzflag bunny (~alex@jolie.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 21:49.35 | Tupone | no nat ? |
| 21:50.11 | *** join/#bzflag tango_ (~nome@adsl-ull-223-208.42-151.net24.it) |
| 21:50.59 | Grumbler | nat+spi, |
| 21:51.00 | Tupone | I think you can redirect ip for your public server to a local address. But not sure how. I can't do with my cisco |
| 21:51.19 | Tupone | I can do with linux |
| 21:52.03 | Tupone | I mean from the inside |
| 21:52.26 | Tupone | surely it happen for the outside, otherwise your is not public |
| 21:53.54 | Tupone | some software does not like to have response from a different address, so be sure that answer come back to the nat |
| 21:59.01 | Grumbler | its definitely a router thing......when i request the public webpage www.whaterver.com, DNS returns the outside ip address.....the router should realize that and loop it through the port forwarding.....but it doesnt, and i get the router configuration page instead...... |
| 21:59.44 | Tupone | unless you can modify the nat at the router for outgoing packet |
| 22:00.03 | *** join/#bzflag bz0878 (~acd66fbe@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 22:00.59 | brad2901 | Oh man, that reboot didn't go to well :( |
| 22:01.13 | brad2901 | It won't start now... |
| 22:01.20 | Tupone | brad2901: what is the problem? |
| 22:01.29 | Grumbler | heh, funny, the lmhost file is windows/system32/etc |
| 22:01.39 | brad2901 | Hang on Tupone |
| 22:02.21 | menotume | just give it an hour, brad |
| 22:02.43 | Tupone | what have you done? |
| 22:02.50 | brad2901 | Windowsb could not start because the following file is missing or corrupr: \windows\system32\config\systrem |
| 22:02.58 | brad2901 | corrupt* |
| 22:03.01 | brad2901 | windows* |
| 22:03.08 | brad2901 | system* |
| 22:03.11 | brad2901 | ;) |
| 22:03.15 | Tupone | windows ... thats bad, cannot help |
| 22:03.20 | brad2901 | :( |
| 22:03.22 | Tupone | unless you fireit |
| 22:03.33 | brad2901 | heh |
| 22:04.27 | *** join/#bzflag Guest993 (~acd66fbe@genesis.concept69.de) |
| 22:04.39 | *** join/#bzflag SportChick (~SportChic@ca-redbch-cuda1-c3b-b-183.stmnca.adelphia.net) |
| 22:04.42 | Guest993 | nick brad2901 |
| 22:07.05 | menotume | brad2901: on my win laptop, there is a 'system.sav' file in that same dir |
| 22:07.08 | menotume | BUT ... |
| 22:07.19 | menotume | it's ancient and much smaller than 'system' |
| 22:09.16 | brad2901 | Do you have any ideas as to how I repair it? |
| 22:10.37 | menotume | not a clue :( |
| 22:11.11 | menotume | i would recommend spending some time with my friend, google |
| 22:11.25 | *** join/#bzflag retro (~ken@gateway-1237.mvista.com) |
| 22:11.31 | brad2901 | Ok, i'll give that a try |
| 22:13.15 | *** join/#bzflag [brad] (brad@brad2901.user) |
| 22:24.58 | *** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast@24-196-92-143.jvl.wi.charter.com) |
| 22:27.11 | [brad] | Could someone please paste the error I posted a while ago/ |
| 22:28.09 | [brad] | ): |
| 22:28.21 | [brad] | Guess I need to type it out again |
| 22:29.09 | menotume | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:29.09 | menotume | <brad2901> corrupt* |
| 22:29.10 | menotume | <brad2901> windows* |
| 22:29.10 | menotume | <brad2901> system* |
| 22:29.27 | menotume | :)* |
| 22:29.28 | [brad] | Thanks menotume :) |
| 22:39.58 | *** join/#bzflag S1gn (~corwin@bzq-84-109-158-94.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 22:42.17 | S1gn | anybody wants to help? I can't understand what's wrong with -synctime, it's 1:41 local time (ok, even 22:41 gmt) but there is sunny day there |
| 22:43.49 | S1gn | amber.gotdns.org:5679 |
| 22:49.43 | *** join/#bzflag BenUrban (~benurban@pcp07709741pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net) |
| 23:02.04 | *** join/#bzflag _bubbles_ (~nadic666@toronto-HSE-ppp4263576.sympatico.ca) |
| 23:21.14 | *** join/#bzflag RPG_ (~G-bus@c-24-15-87-171.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 23:21.25 | *** part/#bzflag RPG_ (~G-bus@c-24-15-87-171.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 23:21.28 | *** join/#bzflag RPG_ (~G-bus@c-24-15-87-171.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 23:21.35 | RPG_ | hi |
| 23:22.24 | blast007 | hello :) |
| 23:23.09 | RPG_ | does somebody know what string to query a BZFlag server with if you want the server to return back to you it's current player data (such as who's playing and what team they're on) |
| 23:23.34 | JeffM2501 | the list server dosn't know that |
| 23:23.43 | JeffM2501 | ohh you mean the game server? |
| 23:23.48 | RPG_ | yep |
| 23:23.56 | blast007 | it's not a string |
| 23:24.00 | blast007 | it will be a packet |
| 23:24.03 | JeffM2501 | yeah it's not a URL |
| 23:24.05 | JeffM2501 | it's TCP packet |
| 23:24.10 | blast007 | are you wanting to do that with PHP? |
| 23:24.14 | RPG_ | yes |
| 23:24.18 | JeffM2501 | there are scripts that do it allready |
| 23:24.25 | RPG_ | any PHP ones? |
| 23:24.28 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 23:24.28 | blast007 | cuz there's a simple script in the misc/ dir of the source code |
| 23:24.37 | blast007 | get's players and scores, iirc |
| 23:24.37 | JeffM2501 | the bzfsquery one |
| 23:24.39 | RPG_ | bzlist.php? |
| 23:24.42 | blast007 | yup |
| 23:24.43 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 23:24.49 | RPG_ | bzfquery is perl |
| 23:24.49 | JeffM2501 | that's the list server |
| 23:24.55 | blast007 | oh..heh |
| 23:25.05 | JeffM2501 | noodlemans my.bzflag.org code does it |
| 23:25.23 | JeffM2501 | the perl code will show the packet stuff tho |
| 23:25.40 | JeffM2501 | a couple other people have php pages that do it |
| 23:25.43 | JeffM2501 | all the stat trackers |
| 23:25.47 | RPG_ | die $! unless connect(S, $server); |
| 23:25.58 | RPG_ | is that the line that gets the data? |
| 23:26.00 | JeffM2501 | that is just to make sure it can connect |
| 23:26.01 | JeffM2501 | NO |
| 23:26.06 | JeffM2501 | that is just to see if it's there |
| 23:26.09 | JeffM2501 | that dosn't send any data |
| 23:26.18 | JeffM2501 | the list server does NOT know about players |
| 23:26.29 | RPG_ | i'm talking about the bzfs server |
| 23:26.37 | JeffM2501 | I know |
| 23:26.49 | JeffM2501 | that code you showed is from the list server tho |
| 23:27.30 | JeffM2501 | ether pull the code from the python or perl scripts |
| 23:27.36 | JeffM2501 | or check out the "web" project |
| 23:27.57 | JeffM2501 | it has the stat tracking stuff IIRC |
| 23:28.05 | *** join/#bzflag brad2901 (brad2901@brad2901.user) |
| 23:28.42 | brad2901 | ~blast007++ |
| 23:29.01 | RPG_ | my.bzflag.org pulls the player info from a mysql database |
| 23:29.08 | JeffM2501 | actualy just view source for http://my.bzflag.org/currentplayers.php |
| 23:29.11 | JeffM2501 | at the bottom |
| 23:29.16 | JeffM2501 | it'll show you the php |
| 23:29.57 | blast007 | hmm....I swore there was a .php one |
| 23:30.09 | JeffM2501 | there is, it's just not in misc :) |
| 23:30.19 | JeffM2501 | there are a couple of them |
| 23:30.35 | RPG_ | the currentplayers.php pulls the players from a mysql database too |
| 23:30.40 | *** join/#bzflag triclops (~triclops@c211-31-49-112.rivrw7.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 23:30.49 | JeffM2501 | one of those pages fills out the SQL |
| 23:31.00 | RPG_ | i think bzfquery.pl is used for that |
| 23:31.02 | JeffM2501 | my.bzflag.org dosn't use the list servers database |
| 23:31.06 | JeffM2501 | it may be |
| 23:31.12 | JeffM2501 | no it's not |
| 23:31.16 | JeffM2501 | we don't have cronjobs |
| 23:31.33 | RPG_ | so the info is sampled each time someone visits the site? |
| 23:31.45 | JeffM2501 | all the source for that stuff is in the db project |
| 23:31.57 | JeffM2501 | RPG_, I dono, I didn't write it, noodleman did |
| 23:32.04 | JeffM2501 | basicly he converted the perl to php |
| 23:32.11 | JeffM2501 | a couple other people have as well |
| 23:32.16 | RPG_ | /db/update/update_data.php |
| 23:32.16 | JeffM2501 | it's a simple packet tho |
| 23:35.20 | JeffM2501 | can you read python code? |
| 23:35.43 | purple_cow | it's hard *not* to be able to read python code ;) |
| 23:35.48 | RPG_ | don't think i ever tried |
| 23:35.49 | JeffM2501 | no it's not |
| 23:35.53 | JeffM2501 | but you have to be willing :) |
| 23:36.01 | JeffM2501 | bzfquery.py does it |
| 23:36.10 | JeffM2501 | it connects to a server and gets the players and stuff |
| 23:36.52 | JeffM2501 | basicly you connect to the server via TCP |
| 23:36.56 | JeffM2501 | and send some data |
| 23:36.59 | JeffM2501 | get some data |
| 23:37.23 | JeffM2501 | thens end a 'qc' to query the game and get back a packed structure |
| 23:39.27 | *** join/#bzflag junker (~44bb3519@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 23:41.05 | blast007 | I had a PHP one that could do stuff like connect to a bzfs server, get the players, scores, and team scores, join as a player, send chat messages, respond to lag pings, etc |
| 23:42.11 | RPG_ | still have it? |
| 23:42.29 | blast007 | it was in a broken state last I checked |
| 23:42.37 | *** join/#bzflag junker (~44bb3519@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 23:43.06 | blast007 | if you just want players and scores, I might be able to find the initial PHP port of the bzfquery.pl |
| 23:43.11 | RPG_ | i can still look at it |
| 23:43.23 | *** join/#bzflag bz0473 (~44bb3519@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 23:43.58 | meacan | RPG_: Hi, i got you PM but havnt looked at your site. I'm pretty busy these days, but will eventually look at it.. (i'm [dmp]) |
| 23:44.34 | JeffM2501 | somone with a "D" name had a site all done |
| 23:44.35 | blast007 | RPG_: it's on my laptop at home right now (I'm at work) but I could look for it when I'm done |
| 23:45.10 | RPG_ | meacan, i probalby figured out what i wanted to know; i think i sent you one on the date() function a few monts ago |
| 23:45.40 | RPG_ | jeffm2501, had "a" site? |
| 23:46.06 | DTRemenak | david_v, of fortix. see http://fortix.bzflag.org/list.php |
| 23:47.15 | RPG_ | i talked to him a while back, i think he uses bzfquery.pl too |
| 23:47.28 | meacan | no, he uses java |
| 23:48.42 | meacan | Im pretty sure of that :-) |
| 23:49.51 | JeffM2501 | I did? |
| 23:50.05 | JeffM2501 | oh |
| 23:50.08 | meacan | No, david_v/fortix site |
| 23:50.12 | RPG_ | i saw a java interface that queried servers awhile back, but i don't remember where |
| 23:50.13 | JeffM2501 | yeah a website that did stuff |
| 23:50.19 | JeffM2501 | yeah maybe it was fortix |
| 23:50.25 | JeffM2501 | it did player tracking and all that |
| 23:50.32 | JeffM2501 | and did it's own server querys |
| 23:50.32 | DTRemenak | he uses java for the launcher, but the rest of it is in php iirc |
| 23:50.51 | JeffM2501 | the sbo code should do it as well |
| 23:50.54 | JeffM2501 | somewhere |
| 23:51.02 | *** join/#bzflag mmu_man (~revol@ALyon-253-1-25-207.w83-205.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 23:51.05 | DTRemenak | he also has an RSS-ish feed that you can suck off of so you don't generate mass queries into servers |
| 23:51.08 | JeffM2501 | it just shoves it INTO it's own database |
| 23:51.17 | JeffM2501 | mmmmm rss sucking...... |
| 23:51.27 | DTRemenak | actually I think s.b.o has an RSS feed too |
| 23:51.31 | JeffM2501 | guu used to suck the sbo feeds |
| 23:51.34 | meacan | no, he uses java. PHP is just to display it on the website and update rss-feed |
| 23:52.48 | meacan | As im hosting it, it would belive i'm right on this one. |
| 23:53.19 | RPG_ | later, i have a browser full of 10 tabs searching for the site |
| 23:53.21 | *** part/#bzflag RPG_ (~G-bus@c-24-15-87-171.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 23:53.25 | DTRemenak | meacan: I'll accept that you're right, sure :) I was just trying to recall things |
| 23:53.57 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (~timr@TimRiker.bronze.supporter.pdpc) |
| 23:53.57 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 23:55.53 | JeffM2501 | and there is the man who would know of a php bzfsquery :) |
| 23:58.41 | *** join/#bzflag ElectricElf (~david@ElectricElf.developer.debian) |
| 23:59.13 | blast007 | JeffM2501: it's very likely that there wasn't one |
| 23:59.34 | JeffM2501 | the sbo one was I thought |
| 23:59.48 | JeffM2501 | or you think he used perl to fill the database? |
| 23:59.55 | blast007 | the sbo one was perl, unless it was rewritten |