| 00:00.27 | *** join/#bzflag bz5788 (~45c5ca7e@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 00:02.14 | bz5788 | Greetings. |
| 00:03.02 | learner | hello |
| 00:13.06 | SportChick | menotume: ping |
| 00:30.37 | menotume | pong |
| 00:30.54 | menotume | SportChick: whenever you're ready |
| 00:34.48 | SportChick | now |
| 00:34.59 | SportChick | (actually, I was ready in January) |
| 00:35.16 | menotume | hehe |
| 00:35.24 | menotume | one sec - problem with my server |
| 00:35.28 | SportChick | :( |
| 00:37.20 | menotume | ok, can you go to bzflag.no-ip.com:5156 ? |
| 00:37.30 | SportChick | yes, one sec |
| 00:37.48 | menotume | k |
| 00:50.46 | *** join/#bzflag wegstar (~YCC@adsl-67-121-189-133.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 01:04.13 | SportChick | ~menotume++ |
| 01:04.15 | SportChick | ~Tupone++ |
| 01:04.28 | learner | better? |
| 01:04.33 | SportChick | not for me,b ut for him |
| 01:04.33 | menotume | yup |
| 01:04.42 | menotume | her clock is drifting bigtime |
| 01:04.42 | SportChick | he says my clock is all screwy |
| 01:05.09 | menotume | SportChick: how is yyour time-of-day clock ? |
| 01:05.14 | SportChick | it's perfect |
| 01:05.16 | SportChick | 6:05 |
| 01:05.18 | menotume | hmmm |
| 01:05.20 | learner | wonder if there's something pushing time updates to her machine |
| 01:05.23 | SportChick | always matches my watch |
| 01:05.59 | SportChick | I'll keep peaking in here, but need to start dinner |
| 01:06.06 | menotume | when i put the 'other' path in the tupone suggested, her jitter wnet waaaay down (to me, visually) |
| 01:06.14 | menotume | err, other patch |
| 01:06.47 | menotume | still a little, but very consistant (which i guess the deadreckoning adjust is for) |
| 01:07.56 | menotume | her clock is drifting more than a second every 20 seconds |
| 01:08.54 | menotume | well, that whereever it gets 'ticks' from in M$ WinBlows |
| 01:09.08 | menotume | not time-of-day |
| 01:13.19 | learner | wow |
| 01:13.43 | learner | can't be drifting that much if something's not making adjustments |
| 01:15.03 | learner | the system clock should be based on the same tick counter that we use for timing |
| 01:15.15 | menotume | make it a little over 1 second per 12 seconds - over a period of 2 minutes |
| 01:15.34 | menotume | there's some funky logic in TimeKeeper for M$ |
| 01:15.46 | learner | how's that time being computed? from the timekeeper? |
| 01:15.54 | menotume | it's a fairly consistant drift, i think |
| 01:15.58 | menotume | yes |
| 01:16.33 | menotume | TimeKeeper::getTick() - TimeKeeper::getNullTime() |
| 01:16.44 | menotume | lemme check that |
| 01:17.51 | menotume | yep. |
| 01:18.13 | learner | ticks are just less frequently updated getCurrent()'s |
| 01:18.16 | menotume | ServerLink::sendPlayerUpdate |
| 01:19.18 | menotume | tick is once thru main loop ? |
| 01:19.33 | learner | hmm.. ches did switch a handful of the getcurrent's to gettick many moons ago, wonder if that's at all related |
| 01:19.36 | menotume | *updated once per loop* |
| 01:19.47 | learner | yes, only once per frame actually, iirc |
| 01:20.03 | menotume | it's losing time |
| 01:20.14 | menotume | hmm |
| 01:20.55 | menotume | well, there's _something_ wrong |
| 01:21.10 | menotume | I ran my logging client at GU public server today for 5 minutes |
| 01:21.23 | learner | yes, it's sounding more like a bug now than something with her machine to me |
| 01:21.26 | menotume | the worst drift anyone had was .5 seconds, and that corrected itself |
| 01:22.30 | menotume | ok, we made some progress, let's shelf this amd pick it up again in a few months :) |
| 01:23.05 | learner | should add a QueryPer..Counter() call to the run loop and print out how much performance timer time has elapsed every minute of timekeeper time |
| 01:23.17 | SportChick | menotume: don't you DARE |
| 01:23.22 | menotume | that's greek to me |
| 01:23.22 | learner | they "should" match if the logic is correct in getCurrent() |
| 01:23.30 | menotume | aua, she's listening |
| 01:23.44 | menotume | that has to be in her client, right ? |
| 01:24.32 | learner | QueryPerformanceCounter() is the win32 version of gettimeofday(), it returns a high-precision counter based on the reported cpu frequency |
| 01:24.42 | learner | ooh, I wonder if her cpu is reporting the wrong frequency.. |
| 01:24.42 | menotume | ahh, gotya |
| 01:24.47 | menotume | :) |
| 01:24.50 | menotume | yep |
| 01:24.53 | learner | that'd be a constant drift |
| 01:25.23 | menotume | off by about 9% |
| 01:26.15 | menotume | how about a small app |
| 01:26.26 | menotume | that just reports QueryPerformanceCounter() |
| 01:26.34 | menotume | let her run it for 1 minute |
| 01:27.04 | learner | can you add a LARGE_INTEGER f; QueryPerformanceCounter(&f); printf("frequency is %f\n", 1.0 / (float)f.QuanPart); ? |
| 01:27.19 | menotume | who ? |
| 01:27.21 | learner | QuadPart |
| 01:27.26 | learner | heh, you :) |
| 01:27.30 | menotume | she is on MS, and i can't build that |
| 01:27.42 | menotume | :) |
| 01:27.44 | learner | ahh, where'd her build come from? |
| 01:27.55 | menotume | standard, it was MY client that was logging |
| 01:28.04 | learner | ahh |
| 01:28.08 | learner | bleh :) |
| 01:28.13 | menotume | I logged the timestamp she sent in MsgPlayerUpdates |
| 01:28.45 | learner | hmm.. who added timestamps? I don't recall that recent |
| 01:28.57 | menotume | i'm guessing tupone |
| 01:29.01 | menotume | but, not sure |
| 01:29.24 | learner | there ya go sporty .. witchhunt is over. tupone did it :) |
| 01:29.31 | menotume | must have been 2.0, would break protocol |
| 01:30.12 | learner | yeah, i must have been paying attention to something else at the time -- probably quenching/logging or something |
| 01:30.20 | menotume | ahhh |
| 01:30.27 | menotume | i thought you knew EVERYTHING |
| 01:30.39 | learner | har har :) |
| 01:30.44 | menotume | ;) |
| 01:31.20 | SportChick | I believe sgk added timestamps to logs, but not sure if that's what you are talking about |
| 01:31.30 | learner | does the timestamp get progressively worse or adjust at all? |
| 01:31.32 | menotume | ahh, no, that was me :) |
| 01:31.39 | menotume | progressive |
| 01:31.45 | menotume | well, i may adjust a little |
| 01:31.57 | menotume | one sec ... |
| 01:32.25 | learner | progressively worse means the framerate limiter isn't going to do jack for you |
| 01:32.54 | menotume | http://meno.zapto.org/bzcaps/sporty01.log |
| 01:33.48 | learner | hmm.. |
| 01:34.10 | learner | can you get those same results from another windows player? |
| 01:34.28 | learner | not same value, but same observance |
| 01:35.34 | learner | finding a windows player that doesn't exhibit it would be interesting to know |
| 01:35.39 | menotume | ok |
| 01:35.59 | menotume | can/will do |
| 01:36.00 | menotume | i just put a legend in there, refresh to get it |
| 01:36.13 | learner | got it |
| 01:38.32 | menotume | hmmm, any windows users here ? |
| 01:38.55 | menotume | ok, wrong place to ask :) |
| 01:39.03 | learner | heh |
| 01:44.21 | orange | I do run windows, but I don't play on it |
| 01:45.59 | menotume | got one |
| 01:46.22 | menotume | all i had to do was go to hepcap, do CLIENTQUERY |
| 01:46.35 | menotume | then grep the log to remove everyone else |
| 01:47.00 | menotume | learner: http://meno.zapto.org/bzcaps/torture2m.log |
| 01:47.03 | orange | hepcap :-) |
| 01:47.10 | menotume | hehe |
| 01:47.12 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~jeffm@Patlabor221.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 01:47.12 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 01:47.42 | learner | okay, that's good to see at least |
| 01:47.44 | orange | that is very very weird |
| 01:47.55 | orange | (sorry, I'm eavesdropping) |
| 01:48.06 | menotume | :) |
| 01:48.31 | menotume | I think it's a M$ problem |
| 01:48.38 | menotume | only way to fix is with linux |
| 01:48.39 | orange | could it be hardware? |
| 01:48.54 | learner | there is a ms tech note that says QPC might jump forward in time by a couple seconds if the bus gets saturated |
| 01:49.07 | orange | back to the idea of a bootable linux CD |
| 01:49.12 | learner | but since hers isnt jumping, that would imply the frequency is wrong |
| 01:49.19 | menotume | yep |
| 01:50.19 | learner | i suppose it could be some massive floating point math drift too |
| 01:50.25 | menotume | so, how does the freq get set (for the QueryPerformanceCounter()) ? |
| 01:50.33 | learner | there is a cast from double to float in there |
| 01:50.42 | menotume | hmm |
| 01:50.58 | learner | get's set from a call to QueryPerformanceFrequency when the app starts |
| 01:51.25 | menotume | ahh, so it can be fooled |
| 01:51.27 | learner | ooh, could try recomputing the frequency |
| 01:51.34 | learner | ooh! i bet that's it |
| 01:51.41 | learner | she's got a laptop afterall |
| 01:51.46 | menotume | yes |
| 01:51.50 | learner | cpu throttling will be going on non-stop |
| 01:52.00 | menotume | ahhh |
| 01:52.07 | menotume | heh |
| 01:52.15 | learner | that frequency is going to change like mad potentially |
| 01:52.39 | *** join/#bzflag bz2210 (~c72df774@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 01:53.06 | orange | she could turn off powersaving performance features |
| 01:53.21 | menotume | hmmm, maybe that's why my laptop is whacked |
| 01:53.31 | learner | even set to "off" lots of chipsets will still oscillate the "real" frequency a little |
| 01:53.47 | learner | the performance counter is supposed to pick up the actual frequency from the bios |
| 01:54.08 | learner | that would also explain the drift |
| 01:54.22 | learner | on app start, it's not cpu intensive yet, so it's not 100% |
| 01:54.38 | *** join/#bzflag BlasterWisconsin (~a9cf3a6a@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 01:54.38 | bz2210 | can I net work 2 computers with BZFlag? |
| 01:54.38 | learner | cpu speeds up and her game is drifted off ever since |
| 01:54.39 | orange | adjust the frequency periodically? |
| 01:54.49 | learner | the framerate limiter _would_ have helped then.. |
| 01:54.51 | orange | few times a minute |
| 01:54.59 | learner | few times a second |
| 01:55.10 | orange | if it isn't expensive, sure |
| 01:55.10 | learner | or maybe once per tick |
| 01:55.43 | learner | shouldn't be bad at all compared to the drift |
| 01:55.55 | learner | couple nanosecs |
| 01:57.13 | learner | hrm, scratch that.. qpf is documented to not change, it's the counter frequency |
| 01:57.24 | learner | if it's zero, though.. |
| 01:57.45 | *** part/#bzflag bz2210 (~c72df774@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 01:59.08 | learner | yeah, the zero case in getcurrent is bad |
| 02:00.08 | menotume | i like watching lerner think |
| 02:01.23 | learner | it's just the gin n tonic talking |
| 02:13.31 | *** join/#bzflag menotume (~meno@menotume.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 02:23.16 | menotume | it's verwy quiet in here |
| 02:27.10 | learner | sssh |
| 02:29.51 | CIA-5 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/src/common/TimeKeeper.cxx: print a message if the performance counter fails, and for shuck's sake, don't loose/clamp time even if we are using timeGetTime() |
| 02:31.05 | learner | would anyone object if I update TimeKeeper to doubles? |
| 02:33.36 | learner | going once |
| 02:33.38 | learner | going thrice |
| 02:35.12 | wegstar | :-) |
| 02:37.29 | purple_cow | you really need that much precision? :P |
| 02:37.40 | menotume | i object |
| 02:40.26 | menotume | learner: can it be double interanlly, and converted/shifted/whatever to single |
| 02:41.11 | menotume | remember, it's sent in msgs |
| 02:41.29 | CIA-5 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/src/common/TimeKeeper.cxx: add a sanity check and make sure we're using the best possible timer resolution for timeGetTime() |
| 02:41.50 | menotume | SportChick: check back in 4 months |
| 02:42.09 | menotume | muahawahawaha |
| 02:42.24 | orange | I suppose he's getting away with teasing because he's actually helping |
| 02:43.29 | learner | purple_cow, our timing is based on correct time estimates from app start.. accumulated (!) so if it's always rounding up/down that 7th decimal place, it can accumulate error pretty darn quickly |
| 02:44.03 | learner | would be odd for modern hardware/compilers to consistently round as such, but it's not unheard of |
| 02:44.29 | SportChick | wanna see something cool? |
| 02:44.42 | SportChick | oh, wait - I got no place to put it |
| 02:44.44 | SportChick | one sec |
| 02:44.46 | learner | you giving menotume the finger? :) |
| 02:45.44 | SportChick | no, trying to figure out where to put up an image for you to see |
| 02:45.48 | SportChick | (temporarily) |
| 02:45.51 | learner | there's also potential for consistent float error on a highly optimized build that is told that it's okay to fudge ieee floating for speed |
| 02:46.04 | menotume | lol |
| 02:47.00 | learner | SportChick, next step is to test out those latest fixes with a new build for you |
| 02:47.08 | learner | need to get someone to make you a new build |
| 02:47.52 | SportChick | http://www.kirkanddonna.com/donna/images/boat.jpg |
| 02:47.54 | learner | i can add the framerate limiter now too, but it'd really be better to test this piecewise to know what actually fixes it |
| 02:48.10 | SportChick | JeffM2501: ping |
| 02:48.15 | SportChick | DTRemenak: ping |
| 02:48.25 | learner | you got a tan since I last saw you .. :) |
| 02:48.44 | SportChick | hehe, not me! that's a boat our church bought for a village that was wiped out in india |
| 02:48.53 | SportChick | it's a fishing boat |
| 02:49.05 | learner | i was sure that was kirk in the blue pants |
| 02:49.22 | menotume | hehe |
| 02:49.24 | SportChick | hah |
| 02:49.53 | SportChick | who else does windows builds? |
| 02:49.59 | menotume | let's see if this works ... |
| 02:50.03 | menotume | WINDOZE SUX |
| 02:50.17 | SportChick | yes, well, it keeps you linux guys on your toes |
| 02:50.22 | menotume | hmmm. no bites |
| 02:50.41 | menotume | I tried |
| 02:51.03 | SportChick | stevek: ping |
| 02:51.10 | SportChick | sgk284: ping |
| 02:51.21 | SportChick | does trepan build windows? |
| 02:52.03 | trepan | nope |
| 02:58.31 | SportChick | so close, yet... |
| 03:00.06 | blast007 | SportChick: you just wanting the bzflag.exe file? |
| 03:00.16 | learner | she needs a fresh build |
| 03:00.19 | SportChick | blast007: I need whatever they tell me i need |
| 03:00.34 | blast007 | I can build, but it would be from anon cvs |
| 03:01.02 | SportChick | learner: would that work? |
| 03:01.07 | learner | nope |
| 03:01.16 | learner | but someone can tar up non-anon for him |
| 03:01.44 | learner | my sources are already heavily edited for the next test presuming this fails |
| 03:01.57 | SportChick | learner: hehe |
| 03:02.38 | trepan | i'll re-get the dev srcs if no-one else has clean ones |
| 03:02.52 | menotume | i can do the same |
| 03:03.01 | menotume | just a new dir is all |
| 03:04.01 | menotume | getting it now |
| 03:04.08 | learner | or someone could poke Tim to add blast007 |
| 03:04.13 | learner | but that might get scary :) |
| 03:04.17 | blast007 | heh |
| 03:04.18 | SportChick | TimRiker: ping |
| 03:04.28 | trepan | menotume: all yours, tea-time for y.t. |
| 03:04.34 | menotume | :) |
| 03:04.54 | learner | SportChick: he could commit the next changes that break it even worse for you :) |
| 03:05.03 | SportChick | :( |
| 03:05.21 | menotume | blast007: can you handle a .tgz ? |
| 03:05.23 | learner | course probably no more dangerous than the other clowns that have access now :) |
| 03:05.31 | blast007 | menotume: yeah |
| 03:05.33 | menotume | okies |
| 03:07.09 | SportChick | ~menotume++ |
| 03:07.12 | SportChick | ~learner++ |
| 03:07.20 | SportChick | ~Tupone++ |
| 03:07.23 | SportChick | ~blast007++ |
| 03:07.56 | SportChick | ~TheRedBaron++ |
| 03:07.56 | menotume | blast007: http://meno.zapto.org/SportyIsJittery/cvs20050512.tgz |
| 03:08.05 | blast007 | hehe |
| 03:08.13 | menotume | I didn't say anything |
| 03:08.34 | SportChick | ~Bagheera++ |
| 03:10.37 | menotume | ahh haa ! |
| 03:10.44 | menotume | good timing :) |
| 03:11.05 | learner | blast007, don't guarantee that it'll compile ;) |
| 03:11.07 | DTRemenak | hmm, does that mean I have to reboot :) |
| 03:11.18 | SportChick | dtr, dtr, dtr:! |
| 03:11.18 | blast007 | learner: :) |
| 03:11.39 | menotume | DTRemenak: someone needs a windows build |
| 03:11.41 | SportChick | DTRemenak: you are needed |
| 03:11.54 | SportChick | desparately |
| 03:12.02 | SportChick | grrrr |
| 03:12.06 | SportChick | despErately |
| 03:12.53 | DTRemenak | jej |
| 03:13.05 | DTRemenak | okiedokey, guess I'll restart then |
| 03:13.23 | menotume | ahh, dual-boot ? |
| 03:13.27 | DTRemenak | yup |
| 03:13.56 | DTRemenak | brb |
| 03:13.59 | menotume | maybe not needed if blast007 is doing it ? |
| 03:14.02 | learner | poor guy |
| 03:14.03 | menotume | too late |
| 03:14.14 | learner | sucked back to the dark side |
| 03:14.19 | menotume | rofl |
| 03:14.19 | blast007 | mine will probably compile slower ;) |
| 03:14.27 | blast007 | only a PIII 700MHz |
| 03:15.20 | SportChick | ~Dtremenak++ |
| 03:15.21 | learner | mine compiles faster if I whisper sweet nothings to it |
| 03:16.01 | menotume | DTRemenak: we really need a linux build ! |
| 03:16.04 | SportChick | learner: but..oh, nevermind |
| 03:16.05 | menotume | ohh, not her yet |
| 03:16.34 | SportChick | I don't think he's EVER be a "her" |
| 03:16.34 | learner | menotume: hehe |
| 03:16.53 | menotume | :) |
| 03:17.51 | menotume | wow, he must have 'NT' |
| 03:18.08 | SportChick | either that or he ran for his life |
| 03:18.26 | learner | dtr probably just uses that as a good believeable lie so that he can get away from us all .. count to 100, relax, regroup, etc.. everyone will believe that rebooting to windows takes that long |
| 03:18.59 | menotume | heh, his timing was interesting, right after blast007 started a build |
| 03:19.05 | SportChick | maybe linux crashed his machine |
| 03:19.10 | menotume | hah |
| 03:19.30 | *** join/#bzflag MeBigFatGuy (dave@balt-209-150-116-25.dynamic-dial.qis.net) |
| 03:19.38 | learner | w00t w00t |
| 03:19.39 | SportChick | hiya mebigfatguy! |
| 03:19.40 | learner | howdy MeBigFatGuy |
| 03:19.44 | MeBigFatGuy | howdy |
| 03:19.50 | menotume | hi MeBigFatGuy |
| 03:19.54 | MeBigFatGuy | heya |
| 03:20.21 | MeBigFatGuy | heh |
| 03:20.30 | MeBigFatGuy | i can build... but deploying is another story :) |
| 03:20.57 | menotume | ok, everybody build - let's have a race |
| 03:21.04 | SportChick | now all we need is for jeff to show up and attempt one too |
| 03:21.14 | MeBigFatGuy | altho broadband may be coming to mebigfatguy |
| 03:21.24 | SportChick | you're on DIALUP?! |
| 03:21.33 | MeBigFatGuy | of course! |
| 03:21.37 | SportChick | woah doggie! |
| 03:21.40 | menotume | ~MeBigFatGuy++ |
| 03:21.49 | MeBigFatGuy | aw shucks |
| 03:21.50 | menotume | :) |
| 03:21.56 | SportChick | he's on dialup - he hasn't seen the second one yet |
| 03:21.58 | SportChick | :) |
| 03:22.03 | menotume | lol |
| 03:22.05 | SportChick | ~mebigfatguy++ |
| 03:22.10 | MeBigFatGuy | does this seem legit? |
| 03:22.12 | MeBigFatGuy | http://www.baybroadband.net/ |
| 03:22.29 | learner | MeBigFatGuy, it's about time .. comcast is crossing the river, eh? |
| 03:22.36 | MeBigFatGuy | no, see above |
| 03:22.40 | learner | ahh |
| 03:22.51 | MeBigFatGuy | broadband radio |
| 03:22.51 | menotume | wireless faster than cable ? |
| 03:23.34 | creeperz | my friend billy just got wireless internet |
| 03:23.47 | MeBigFatGuy | doesn't build on windoz |
| 03:23.54 | menotume | worth a try MeBigFatGuy |
| 03:24.02 | learner | wow, their commercial business rates are very reasonable |
| 03:24.12 | menotume | MeBigFatGuy: error in TimeKeeper ? |
| 03:24.29 | MeBigFatGuy | timekeeper--yes |
| 03:24.44 | menotume | ohhh, $199 setup |
| 03:25.41 | learner | heck, i'd drop comcast for their rates |
| 03:25.44 | menotume | I wonder who broke cvs ? |
| 03:25.56 | MeBigFatGuy | IntToString... i'm not familiar with that |
| 03:26.00 | learner | menotume: hamsters |
| 03:26.06 | MeBigFatGuy | but i've lost all recolection of c++ |
| 03:26.19 | menotume | IntToString - yuk |
| 03:27.16 | menotume | MeBigFatGuy: know anyone else who has tried it (baybroadbacnd) :? |
| 03:27.21 | learner | my bad, how about... |
| 03:27.23 | MeBigFatGuy | no |
| 03:27.42 | MeBigFatGuy | i just a hand addressed letter in the mail today |
| 03:27.43 | menotume | if it weren't for the $199 install, would be worth a trr |
| 03:27.51 | learner | doesn't look like a sham, but you'd have to just see them in person it sounds |
| 03:27.53 | menotume | hmm |
| 03:28.03 | SportChick | http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/stories/2005/01/24/story2.html |
| 03:28.33 | MeBigFatGuy | thanks sc |
| 03:28.48 | learner | 200 for out there is not that unexpected since most of the people they'll have to set up have nothing in place or will likely need wiring upgraded |
| 03:29.05 | MeBigFatGuy | yup |
| 03:29.23 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@DHCP-170-84.caltech.edu) |
| 03:29.26 | learner | ahh, good link |
| 03:29.52 | menotume | DTRemenak: we really need a linux build ! |
| 03:29.59 | SportChick | http://www.gigaom.com/2005/01/24/the-baltimore-bay-broadband/ |
| 03:30.12 | menotume | DTRemenak: just kidding |
| 03:30.59 | SportChick | MeBigFatGuy: what town you in? |
| 03:31.01 | learner | MeBigFatGuy/DTRemenak, you can just take out the IntToString() and just print the boolean result from QueryPerformanceFrequency and if false, print some message |
| 03:31.16 | MeBigFatGuy | warwick |
| 03:32.31 | learner | so close, but so far |
| 03:33.54 | MeBigFatGuy | i'm assuming that since they sent me a hand addressed flyer, i can join in the fun |
| 03:33.58 | SportChick | is that in maryland or rhode island? |
| 03:34.04 | MeBigFatGuy | maryland |
| 03:34.08 | MeBigFatGuy | eastern shore |
| 03:34.19 | SportChick | k, I don't think I have any more good links for you then |
| 03:35.01 | learner | MeBigFatGuy: i think i'm going to cry.. |
| 03:35.04 | learner | so .. beautiful |
| 03:35.07 | MeBigFatGuy | http://maps.google.com/maps?q=warwick,+md&hl=en |
| 03:35.15 | MeBigFatGuy | me too, learner |
| 03:35.30 | SportChick | what did I miss? |
| 03:43.25 | CIA-5 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/src/common/ (cURLManager.cxx TimeKeeper.cxx): always good to compile |
| 03:43.44 | DTRemenak | hmm, wonder what was in cURLManager... |
| 03:44.46 | blast007 | what change was needed to get it to compile? |
| 03:45.06 | learner | heh |
| 03:45.48 | DTRemenak | blast007: a couple |
| 03:45.54 | DTRemenak | ah, just a debug output |
| 03:46.57 | MeBigFatGuy | learner: finally you can have broadband on your yacht |
| 03:49.34 | learner | ooh, really? |
| 03:49.44 | learner | i've always wanted to live on a boat |
| 04:00.50 | DTRemenak | you will |
| 04:01.29 | CIA-5 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/ (3 files in 3 dirs): |
| 04:01.29 | CIA-5 | BZFlag: since bz accumulates elapsed time since program start, at least use doubles |
| 04:01.29 | CIA-5 | BZFlag: internally to minimize accumulation of floating point error over time and even |
| 04:01.29 | CIA-5 | BZFlag: potential for time drift for optimized code that is allowed to take shortcuts on |
| 04:01.29 | CIA-5 | BZFlag: precision for speed |
| 04:01.43 | learner | while there's a glimmer of hope that you were hitting the bug in the time counter where it lost time, it's simply not that likely |
| 04:01.59 | DTRemenak | I suppose you want me to rebuild with those changes now? |
| 04:02.19 | learner | no, after the first test :) |
| 04:02.38 | learner | but then, yea :) |
| 04:06.46 | DTRemenak | SportChick: ftp://zalmoxis.bakadigital.com/builds/bzflag-2.0.3b1.exe |
| 04:07.10 | DTRemenak | I imagine learner will want you to run with -d |
| 04:07.22 | learner | yup |
| 04:11.11 | SportChick | error - 425 can't open data connection |
| 04:11.46 | learner | you see any messages about QueryPerformance? |
| 04:11.55 | SportChick | no, can't download |
| 04:11.59 | learner | ahh |
| 04:14.15 | DTRemenak | hrmph |
| 04:16.11 | learner | dame problem here |
| 04:16.26 | SportChick | ~whaleslap learner |
| 04:16.27 | ibot | ACTION slaps learner upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh |
| 04:16.27 | learner | er, heh |
| 04:16.30 | learner | s/dame/same/ |
| 04:17.19 | learner | completely unintentional, but rather conveniently funny |
| 04:18.10 | DTRemenak | http://dtremenak.bakadigital.com/bzflag-2.0.3b1.exe |
| 04:21.43 | SportChick | what's -d mean? |
| 04:22.13 | learner | means to run it with debug turned on |
| 04:23.23 | SportChick | how do I do that? |
| 04:24.23 | learner | right click that icon, properties |
| 04:24.43 | *** join/#bzflag horizstar (horizon@c-67-171-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 04:24.47 | SportChick | then what? |
| 04:24.54 | learner | beats me |
| 04:25.02 | SportChick | :( |
| 04:25.05 | learner | hehe |
| 04:25.27 | learner | there should be a long line that says bzflag-2.0.3.exe or something |
| 04:25.34 | SportChick | yes there is |
| 04:25.47 | learner | add a -d to the end of it (with a space in front) |
| 04:25.57 | DTRemenak | at the end of that line add "-d > c:\bzflag.log" |
| 04:25.59 | learner | er |
| 04:26.01 | DTRemenak | without quotes |
| 04:26.02 | SportChick | target: "c:\program files\bzflag2.0.3b1\bzflag.exe" |
| 04:26.05 | learner | never mind.. you need a console |
| 04:26.12 | DTRemenak | learner, redirection works |
| 04:26.21 | learner | ahh, good one dtr |
| 04:26.29 | DTRemenak | change to Target: "c:\program files\bzflag2.0.3b1\bzflag.exe" -d > c:\bzflag.log |
| 04:26.50 | horizstar | hi people ... i've gotten it in mind to develop a dodgeball-style version of CTF ... do you think people would be interested in playing that? |
| 04:27.19 | SportChick | unexpected: >. Server must go after all options. |
| 04:27.36 | DTRemenak | hm |
| 04:27.46 | DTRemenak | maybe it doesn't like redirection |
| 04:27.51 | learner | heh |
| 04:28.00 | DTRemenak | I use it from a batch file |
| 04:28.11 | learner | yeah, that's what I was hoping it was |
| 04:28.23 | SportChick | now what? |
| 04:28.27 | learner | SportChick, Start -> Run "cmd" |
| 04:28.43 | SportChick | ok |
| 04:29.20 | learner | c:\progra~1\bzflag2.0.3b1\bzflag.exe -d > c:\bzflag.log |
| 04:29.49 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 04:30.12 | SportChick | system cannot find the path specified |
| 04:30.31 | learner | what was the line in that properties window? |
| 04:30.57 | SportChick | target: "c:\program files\bzflag2.0.3b1\bzflag.exe" |
| 04:31.08 | DTRemenak | just paste this into the run dialog "c:\program files\bzflag2.0.3b1\bzflag.exe" -d > c:\bzflag.log |
| 04:31.19 | SportChick | actually it was c:\Program Files\ |
| 04:31.31 | blast007 | windows isn't case sensitive |
| 04:31.34 | SportChick | ok |
| 04:31.36 | learner | hrmph, progra~1 shoulda worked |
| 04:31.45 | blast007 | cd \program files\bzflag2.0.3b1 |
| 04:31.56 | blast007 | bzflag -d > c:\bzflag.log |
| 04:34.32 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@host-84-222-136-15.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 04:34.54 | DTRemenak | hola Tupone |
| 04:35.06 | Tupone | morning |
| 04:35.12 | learner | gut and tag |
| 04:35.45 | SportChick | I'm going to sp now |
| 04:37.45 | learner | he obviously doesn't have an ipod |
| 04:40.38 | SportChick | what?! no spectators? |
| 04:42.40 | SportChick | is this supposed to FIX me or just track the problem? |
| 04:44.08 | DTRemenak | if I read correctly, it's an attempt to find out what your problem IS :) |
| 04:44.49 | learner | with a slim to nil chance that it was the problem |
| 04:45.13 | learner | actually, just by running bz for a sec like that should say whether it was the problem |
| 04:45.25 | learner | look in that log file |
| 04:45.30 | learner | what's in there? |
| 04:48.48 | SportChick | LIBCURL: libcurl/7.12.3 |
| 04:48.48 | SportChick | setTextureFilter() Couldn't find texid: -1 |
| 04:48.48 | SportChick | ContextInitializer::executeFreeFuncs() start |
| 04:48.48 | SportChick | ContextInitializer::executeFreeFuncs() end |
| 04:48.49 | SportChick | ContextInitializer::executeInitFuncs() start |
| 04:48.51 | SportChick | ContextInitializer::executeInitFuncs() end |
| 04:48.55 | SportChick | setTextureFilter() Couldn't find texid: -1 |
| 04:48.57 | SportChick | setTextureFilter() Couldn't find texid: -1 |
| 04:49.01 | SportChick | ContextInitializer::executeFreeFuncs() start |
| 04:49.03 | SportChick | ContextInitializer::executeFreeFuncs() end |
| 04:49.05 | SportChick | ContextInitializer::executeInitFuncs() start |
| 04:49.10 | learner | I suppose I should have been more specific |
| 04:49.11 | SportChick | ContextInitializer::executeInitFuncs() end |
| 04:49.13 | SportChick | setTextureFilter() Couldn't find texid: -1 |
| 04:49.15 | SportChick | setTextureFilter() Couldn't find texid: -1 |
| 04:49.19 | SportChick | ContextInitializer::executeFreeFuncs() start |
| 04:49.25 | SportChick | ContextInitializer::executeFreeFuncs() end |
| 04:49.27 | SportChick | ContextInitializer::executeInitFuncs() start |
| 04:49.29 | SportChick | ContextInitializer::executeInitFuncs() end |
| 04:49.31 | SportChick | setTextureFilter() Couldn't find texid: -1 |
| 04:49.33 | SportChick | setTextureFilter() Couldn't find texid: -1 |
| 04:49.35 | SportChick | setTextureFilter() Couldn't find texid: -1 |
| 04:49.38 | learner | SportChick! |
| 04:49.41 | SportChick | ContextInitializer::executeFreeFuncs() start |
| 04:49.43 | SportChick | ContextInitializer::executeFreeFuncs() end |
| 04:49.45 | SportChick | ContextInitializer::executeInitFuncs() start |
| 04:49.47 | SportChick | ContextInitializer::executeInitFuncs() end |
| 04:49.49 | SportChick | setTextureFilter() Couldn't find texid: -1 |
| 04:49.55 | SportChick | ContextInitializer::executeFreeFuncs() start |
| 04:49.57 | SportChick | ContextInitializer::executeFreeFuncs() end |
| 04:49.59 | SportChick | ContextInitializer::executeInitFuncs() start |
| 04:50.01 | SportChick | ContextInitializer::executeInitFuncs() end |
| 04:50.03 | SportChick | setTextureFilter() Couldn't find texid: -1 |
| 04:50.13 | SportChick | ContextInitializer::executeFreeFuncs() start |
| 04:50.15 | SportChick | ContextInitializer::executeFreeFuncs() end |
| 04:50.17 | SportChick | ContextInitializer::executeInitFuncs() start |
| 04:50.19 | SportChick | ContextInitializer::executeInitFuncs() end |
| 04:50.25 | SportChick | setTextureFilter() Couldn't find texid: -1 |
| 04:50.29 | SportChick | setTextureFilter() Couldn't find texid: -1 |
| 04:50.31 | SportChick | ContextInitializer::executeFreeFuncs() start |
| 04:50.33 | SportChick | ContextInitializer::executeFreeFuncs() end |
| 04:50.35 | SportChick | ContextInitializer::executeInitFuncs() start |
| 04:50.41 | SportChick | ContextInitializer |
| 04:50.43 | SportChick | is that the wrong thing? |
| 04:50.45 | SportChick | what? |
| 04:50.57 | learner | pasted _way_ too much |
| 04:51.05 | SportChick | :( sorry |
| 04:51.19 | trepan | never paste more then 4 lines |
| 04:51.28 | Tupone | SportChick: I made a little change to bzflag code and you have no jitter |
| 04:52.10 | SportChick | Tupone: they said I still have jitter |
| 04:52.24 | Tupone | yeah, cause I modified my piece of code |
| 04:52.27 | learner | tupone, her tick time is drifting horribly |
| 04:52.55 | learner | DTRemenak, got the updated build yet? |
| 04:52.56 | Tupone | I have removed the delay correction, and she looks very good |
| 04:53.11 | DTRemenak | learner: want one? |
| 04:53.16 | learner | please, sir |
| 04:53.16 | Tupone | drifty linearly ? |
| 04:53.26 | learner | yeah, pretty much |
| 04:53.39 | learner | testing floating point error accumulation now |
| 04:53.56 | Tupone | :( My algo suppose a zero drift |
| 04:54.17 | learner | she drifts about 1 second (!) every 10-20 seconds |
| 04:54.44 | Tupone | omg .. like 5/10 % I said yesterday :) |
| 04:54.57 | SportChick | yep |
| 04:55.22 | DTRemenak | SportChick: can you paste the log file at http://pastebin.ca instead? |
| 04:56.30 | learner | Tupone, found an assumption/bug in timekeeper that could have caused drift (lost time), but it was for non queryperformancecounter win32 |
| 04:56.41 | learner | and apparently it's not her case or it should have been in her debug |
| 04:57.11 | Tupone | As the problem seems specific to someone, could be a bugged hardware/OS that gives wrong timing data ? |
| 04:57.25 | SportChick | yes |
| 04:57.27 | SportChick | DTRemenak: yes |
| 04:57.32 | SportChick | DTRemenak: this one or the next? |
| 04:57.36 | learner | so that leads back to float error or values from QPC drifting |
| 04:58.03 | DTRemenak | this one first :) |
| 04:58.30 | SportChick | all of it, or just 4 lines? |
| 04:58.59 | DTRemenak | all of it there :) |
| 04:59.08 | learner | Tupone, QueryPerformanceCounter .. it's a high resolution win32 tick counter (1nm or so resolution) that's based on hardware rate |
| 04:59.42 | Tupone | could be the hardware rate is out of spec for some machine? |
| 04:59.43 | learner | the other high possibilty is that QueryPerformanceFrequency is slightly wrong (or was getting cast down from double) |
| 04:59.47 | SportChick | http://pastebin.ca/11647 |
| 05:00.07 | trepan | 1nm/c = wow, good timer :) |
| 05:00.25 | DTRemenak | ah, k thanks |
| 05:00.40 | learner | QueryPerformanceFrequency is supposed to be constant, though, so I'm not sure what we could do about it except attempt to detect it and compute a correction metric |
| 05:00.53 | DTRemenak | QPF doesn't like SpeedStep apparently |
| 05:01.27 | Tupone | for who want to see SportChick without jitter, change line Player.cxx:1319 to if (0) { |
| 05:01.42 | SportChick | ?? Am I supposed to do something? |
| 05:01.48 | DTRemenak | there's some discussion about using timeGetTime to correct drift in QPF |
| 05:02.01 | learner | supposed to dance the Jitterbug while we keep trying |
| 05:02.37 | learner | DTRemenak, yeah, I read that -- though it was for correcting for the multisecond jump that QPC should be making if it was her hardware |
| 05:02.49 | Tupone | SportChick: is that a laptop |
| 05:02.51 | learner | it's not doing that, which makes it sound like the frequency is just wrong |
| 05:03.08 | learner | Tupone, this is not cpu frequency :) .. I thought that at first too :) |
| 05:03.17 | SportChick | Tupone: yes |
| 05:03.18 | DTRemenak | I bet there's a way to turn SpeedStep or PowerNow! off |
| 05:03.25 | DTRemenak | SportChick: Intel or AMD processor? |
| 05:03.31 | SportChick | intel |
| 05:03.44 | Tupone | ohh, so better specify no battery saving then |
| 05:04.37 | learner | if that works, it'll contradict the ms docs (which wouldn't surprise me) |
| 05:04.40 | SportChick | http://pastebin.ca/11648 |
| 05:06.16 | learner | SportChick, have you tried that yet? turning your advanced power management off? |
| 05:06.53 | learner | it would likely be a bios option(s) |
| 05:06.58 | SportChick | learner: as I recall, we did that a few months ago when I was in berkeley |
| 05:07.06 | SportChick | it might have been jeffm who walked me through it |
| 05:07.09 | SportChick | there was no change |
| 05:07.13 | learner | k |
| 05:07.39 | learner | that's what I'd hope, only for the sake of consistency |
| 05:08.01 | *** join/#bzflag Teppic (~Teppic@cpc1-cbly2-5-0-cust239.glfd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 05:08.03 | Tupone | well, I think in a week I can rewrite the remote tracking of timestamp, to take into account drift |
| 05:08.37 | Tupone | But if we know what causes it, I don't :) |
| 05:08.57 | learner | yeah,I wouldn't account for it |
| 05:09.08 | learner | something's causing it -- that should be accounted for/fixed |
| 05:09.30 | learner | not that those two statements make sense together.. must be getting late |
| 05:10.52 | learner | accounting for drift in the server could be abused by cheaters maybe too.. dunno |
| 05:11.14 | learner | up to him |
| 05:11.15 | Tupone | Accounting for drift in client |
| 05:11.16 | DTRemenak | hmm? |
| 05:11.25 | SportChick | I am NOT cheating |
| 05:11.41 | learner | SportChick: oh please, we SO know you are the biggest cheater |
| 05:11.44 | learner | pfft |
| 05:11.53 | DTRemenak | am I supposed to build again? |
| 05:11.59 | learner | heh, yes please :) |
| 05:12.32 | Tupone | is NTP supposed to use /change the QPC ? |
| 05:12.41 | learner | no |
| 05:13.07 | Tupone | I think we have to use a different timer then :( |
| 05:13.10 | learner | it's supposed to be a near direct query of the hardware counter |
| 05:13.48 | DTRemenak | Tupone: it's a problem that's been solved before. I think I can write something up that can compensate now that I know what the problem is. |
| 05:14.45 | Tupone | we can compensate on observer, but better your way, to compensate on SC , so we don't need to update all the client |
| 05:16.35 | learner | DTRemenak, your presuming that QPC is returning wrong or QPF ? |
| 05:16.54 | DTRemenak | both |
| 05:16.56 | DTRemenak | :) |
| 05:17.02 | learner | :) |
| 05:17.04 | DTRemenak | more like they don't match |
| 05:17.22 | DTRemenak | err, more like they're uncorrelated |
| 05:17.25 | learner | watch timeGetTime be wrong too |
| 05:17.52 | learner | is there a _gettimeofday()? :) |
| 05:18.04 | DTRemenak | shouldn't be any problems with timeGetTime other than low accuracy |
| 05:18.18 | DTRemenak | I mean low precision, of course |
| 05:18.43 | learner | of course |
| 05:20.59 | DTRemenak | learner: I get 57 warnings now |
| 05:21.19 | Tupone | nite all |
| 05:21.22 | *** part/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@host-84-222-136-15.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 05:21.47 | learner | expected |
| 05:22.18 | learner | i didn't change all the place where there is a cast to float or float var on the caller |
| 05:22.25 | learner | shouldn't matter for testing this, though |
| 05:22.48 | learner | since any error accumulation would be internal to timekeeper |
| 05:22.49 | DTRemenak | except that now I have to Rebuild All with "error on warnings" off :) |
| 05:25.30 | *** join/#bzflag ToughShooter (~ts@p54B060C9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 05:26.41 | learner | eep :) |
| 05:28.32 | DTRemenak | SportChick: same url again for the new build |
| 05:28.56 | DTRemenak | I'm not at all convinced it will help anything but hey, whatever :) |
| 05:28.56 | SportChick | ok |
| 05:30.37 | *** part/#bzflag ToughShooter (~ts@p54B060C9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 05:31.14 | learner | need menotume to watch her again |
| 05:34.50 | SportChick | they said I'm still jittery |
| 05:35.03 | learner | alrighty, thanks |
| 05:35.23 | SportChick | http://pastebin.ca/11649 |
| 05:36.53 | SportChick | wait |
| 05:36.56 | SportChick | that seems to be wrong |
| 05:37.22 | SportChick | it looks identical to before - do I have to delete the old file? |
| 05:37.40 | SportChick | time looks too old tob e current |
| 05:38.25 | learner | no, it's fine.. the output wouldn't have changed |
| 05:39.25 | learner | it was making sure your cpu was doing sane floating point |
| 05:40.27 | SportChick | how do we know if it worked? |
| 05:49.20 | SportChick | what's the meter that now shows up to the right of my alt/as box? |
| 05:50.55 | DTRemenak | shot reload timers |
| 05:51.25 | DTRemenak | 10 shots = 10 bars. white is ready to shoot, green is time passed, red is time remaining...or something like that. |
| 05:57.26 | SportChick | DTRemenak: it's cool |
| 05:57.33 | SportChick | but my jitter remains :( |
| 06:04.18 | DTRemenak | what's next is that I need to write a bit of code to compensate for QPF/QPC's "problems" |
| 06:04.46 | DTRemenak | dunno when I'll be able to do that though. soon hopefully |
| 06:05.43 | *** part/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~jeffm@Patlabor221.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 06:07.39 | SportChick | okay, thanks dtr |
| 06:07.49 | SportChick | ~dtremenak++ |
| 06:07.51 | SportChick | ~tupone++ |
| 06:07.56 | SportChick | ~learner++ |
| 06:08.05 | SportChick | ~karma SportChick |
| 06:08.05 | ibot | sportchick has karma of 89 |
| 06:08.12 | SportChick | ~karma learner |
| 06:08.12 | ibot | learner has karma of 72 |
| 06:08.17 | SportChick | ~karma Dtremenak |
| 06:08.17 | ibot | dtremenak has karma of 97 |
| 06:08.22 | SportChick | ~karma tupone |
| 06:08.22 | ibot | tupone has karma of 103 |
| 06:10.01 | SportChick | ~karma Dtremenak |
| 06:10.01 | ibot | dtremenak has karma of 97 |
| 06:10.05 | SportChick | ~dtremenak++ |
| 06:15.18 | *** join/#bzflag _Manu_ (~jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 06:15.20 | *** join/#bzflag brad2901 (brad2901@ACC8ECC7.ipt.aol.com) |
| 06:19.52 | *** join/#bzflag brad2901 (brad2901@brad2901.user) |
| 07:03.01 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~atupone@host-84-222-136-15.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 07:11.41 | *** join/#bzflag mmu_man (revol@ALyon-112-1-20-229.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 07:13.36 | *** join/#bzflag gvdm (~gvdm@210-246-13-171.paradise.net.nz) |
| 07:49.13 | *** join/#bzflag tango_ (~nome@adsl-89-253.37-151.net24.it) |
| 08:58.18 | horizstar | anyone have a URL for a page that explains the basics of map-making ... the bzw man page doesn't help much with the basic syntax stuff |
| 09:27.11 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~atupone@host-84-222-136-15.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 09:53.30 | *** join/#bzflag jolie (~sasha@p54A744C3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:53.33 | jolie | hola |
| 09:54.26 | Tupone | hola nina |
| 09:54.42 | jolie | bambino bello |
| 09:54.51 | Tupone | lol |
| 09:55.26 | Tupone | come va? |
| 09:55.46 | jolie | va bien |
| 09:55.54 | jolie | tuto bien |
| 09:55.58 | jolie | haha |
| 09:56.05 | Tupone | :) |
| 09:56.12 | jolie | well not really |
| 09:56.23 | jolie | but i ddont know how to say i feel like shit in .it |
| 09:56.25 | jolie | so.. |
| 09:56.32 | horizstar | lol |
| 09:56.47 | Tupone | :( |
| 09:56.57 | Tupone | how so? |
| 09:57.02 | jolie | same as usual |
| 09:57.11 | jolie | nothing new into my boring dentimental life |
| 09:57.15 | jolie | sentimental even |
| 09:57.38 | Tupone | you're a wonderful person, so you should not |
| 09:57.43 | jolie | well.. |
| 09:58.03 | jolie | thxs , but i think b4 saying im a wonderfull person, you should know me :P |
| 09:59.07 | Tupone | Sorry, I'd say I fell like you are a wonderful person, but I abbreviated that :P |
| 09:59.49 | jolie | i feel like fraggin someone.. |
| 10:01.15 | jolie | i started smoking again |
| 10:01.34 | jolie | i felt inlove with someone again.. |
| 10:01.46 | Tupone | hehe I'm against smoking, we cannot live together then :) |
| 10:01.52 | jolie | and as always nothing good comes out of those 2 |
| 10:01.54 | jolie | >_< |
| 10:02.09 | jolie | dudeee living 2gether?!!? |
| 10:02.15 | Tupone | lol |
| 10:02.19 | Tupone | j/k |
| 10:02.26 | jolie | dont scare da shieit out of me before i even dare to wake up propertly |
| 10:03.00 | jolie | i mena im stying up till late again... |
| 10:03.05 | jolie | its all sheit |
| 10:03.11 | jolie | and gets worse... |
| 10:03.17 | Tupone | Problem on translating your last sentence :( |
| 10:03.31 | Tupone | better continue to work :| |
| 10:03.40 | jolie | last nite the guy i felt inlove with, invited his lesbian friend over.. and she spended the nite there.. >_< and he hasnt callme yet... |
| 10:03.50 | jolie | see how pathetic my life turns like!? |
| 10:04.36 | jolie | i mean i wonder how do i end up with such guys... >_< |
| 10:04.47 | jolie | oh well. have fun at babelfish :P |
| 10:09.47 | jolie | Tupone: yeah working is good, as matter of fact i tried to do some gfx... but they all turn into headless men >_< hehehe |
| 10:10.08 | Tupone | :) |
| 10:11.05 | jolie | i see it comming, the well known coward email or the phone call, saying im so sorry alex, but my lesbian friend is no longer lesbian... >_< |
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| 10:17.30 | *** join/#bzflag BearPerson (karsten@BearPerson.sourcemage) |
| 10:17.59 | jolie | moin moin germany |
| 10:29.39 | *** part/#bzflag jolie (~sasha@p54A744C3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:31.16 | menotume | aww, i missed the fun :P |
| 10:31.21 | menotume | hi Tup |
| 10:37.01 | *** join/#bzflag Electric1lf (~david@573e7127033a709d.node.tor) |
| 10:37.36 | horizstar | anyone here know anything about mapmaking? |
| 10:37.47 | horizstar | how can i make a transparent wall? |
| 11:13.00 | *** join/#bzflag Electric1lf (~david@24.164.242.113) |
| 11:26.21 | *** join/#bzflag doughecka_ (~Doug@adsl-18-112-213.sdf.bellsouth.net) |
| 11:27.45 | horizstar | any devs around? |
| 11:39.49 | *** join/#bzflag cadu (~cadu@201008080124.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 11:39.49 | cadu | hello ! |
| 11:39.49 | cadu | bzflag is SO nice ! :) |
| 11:39.51 | horizstar | yes, yes it is |
| 11:40.05 | cadu | eheheh i'm so happy with it |
| 11:40.10 | cadu | but i can't frag much :'( |
| 11:40.20 | cadu | take a bit of time to get accustomed ... |
| 11:40.26 | cadu | keyboard is easier ? |
| 11:40.40 | horizstar | i use keyboard |
| 11:40.57 | Chestal | most people use mouse |
| 11:41.11 | horizstar | hi Chestal |
| 11:41.28 | Chestal | hi |
| 11:41.29 | horizstar | can i pick your brain for a couple minutes? |
| 11:41.47 | Chestal | just ask |
| 11:41.58 | horizstar | k, i'm trying to develop an inning-based map |
| 11:42.11 | horizstar | it's a dodgeball map |
| 11:42.20 | Chestal | I don't know much about maps and virtually nothing about the new 2.0 map features |
| 11:42.21 | horizstar | the problem is that when the timer goes off |
| 11:42.25 | horizstar | everyone has to rejoin |
| 11:42.33 | Chestal | ah, ok |
| 11:42.38 | horizstar | so i'm wondering if you know any workarounds for making time-dependent things happen in bzflag |
| 11:42.45 | horizstar | the only thing i can think of is world weapons |
| 11:43.17 | Chestal | hmm |
| 11:43.37 | horizstar | most people (not devs) to whom i've talked so far say i should make this a development request |
| 11:43.38 | Chestal | I"m note sure what exactly you can do with maps |
| 11:43.47 | Chestal | I know that there is dynamic color |
| 11:44.00 | horizstar | hmm |
| 11:44.06 | Chestal | but that's probably unsuitable |
| 11:44.09 | horizstar | are the physics drivers time-dependent? |
| 11:44.13 | horizstar | i dunno much about them |
| 11:44.32 | Chestal | because AFAIK it is synched to local time and as such not synchronized |
| 11:44.43 | horizstar | ah |
| 11:44.52 | Chestal | but I really don't know |
| 11:44.53 | cadu | what can i use to make maps ?! |
| 11:45.07 | cadu | there's some editor or it's some language like povray's ? |
| 11:45.13 | horizstar | oh neat |
| 11:45.19 | horizstar | phsyics objects might do it for me |
| 11:45.40 | horizstar | keep all the "out" players in a little turntable for a few minutes |
| 11:45.43 | Chestal | cadu: you can write simple maps with a text editor |
| 11:45.49 | Chestal | cadu: it's not feasible for meshes, though |
| 11:46.00 | cadu | Chestal: what the pros use ? |
| 11:46.11 | horizstar | i use Emacs :) |
| 11:46.15 | horizstar | lol |
| 11:46.22 | cadu | o_O |
| 11:46.25 | cadu | ;-) |
| 11:46.29 | horizstar | <- not a pro |
| 11:46.30 | cadu | going to play a lil :) |
| 11:46.44 | Chestal | I know nothing about map making, there is bzedit, but I don't think it supports most of the new features. There are some conersion tools or plugins for 3D modelers |
| 11:46.49 | cadu | 256k/128k adsl is good for bzflag ? |
| 11:46.59 | Chestal | better ask someone else :-) |
| 11:47.25 | cadu | i want to play with a friend of mine that lives 3km from here and we both have only 256k/128k adsl |
| 11:47.33 | Chestal | cadu: for client it should be ok, downstream might be a little tight for servers with many players |
| 11:47.42 | cadu | 1 on 1 should be ok ? |
| 11:48.01 | Chestal | for server 128kbit/s is _very_ tight, but 1vs1 should work |
| 11:48.25 | horizstar | cadu: there are several servers out there with nobody on them |
| 11:48.30 | horizstar | you might want to try one of them |
| 11:48.39 | cadu | but i live on brazil :D |
| 11:48.50 | cadu | an 1on1 game for neighbors seems more reasonable :) |
| 11:48.56 | cadu | and lag should be much lesser |
| 11:48.58 | horizstar | is he on the same ISP as you? |
| 11:49.00 | cadu | s/er// |
| 11:49.08 | horizstar | cuz if not you could have bad lag issues anyways |
| 11:49.18 | cadu | horizstar: same isp and same 'logical block' |
| 11:49.25 | horizstar | ah |
| 11:49.30 | cadu | we live on the same street |
| 11:49.31 | horizstar | well then you should be in luck :) |
| 11:49.38 | horizstar | ?? |
| 11:49.41 | horizstar | you said 3km |
| 11:49.41 | cadu | my ping to there rates 80ms |
| 11:49.47 | cadu | big street ? :) |
| 11:49.47 | horizstar | oh ... long street :) |
| 11:49.49 | horizstar | haha |
| 11:50.06 | cadu | brazil is huge country :) |
| 11:50.14 | cadu | we have spare terrain to build that :) |
| 11:50.22 | horizstar | that's like saying "we both live on the banks of the Amazon" |
| 11:50.24 | cadu | i wouldn't even call it an avenue :) |
| 11:50.48 | horizstar | Chestal: thanks for your help ... who are the people that i should bug about my question? |
| 11:54.30 | Chestal | horizstar: trepan probably knows most about the map features. A good place would be http://my.bzflag.org/bb/ , I think it has a map making forum |
| 11:54.41 | horizstar | ok sweet, thanks much |
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| 12:24.30 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~atupone@host-84-222-136-15.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 12:26.08 | menotume | hi Tupone |
| 12:26.14 | menotume | i see you were filled in |
| 12:26.25 | Tupone | filled in where? |
| 12:26.35 | *** join/#bzflag uso_w (proxy@gate.ibr.ch) |
| 12:26.49 | menotume | with Sporty's problem |
| 12:26.56 | menotume | here are the logs: |
| 12:27.03 | menotume | http://meno.zapto.org/bzcaps/sporty01.log <== SportChick |
| 12:27.26 | menotume | http://meno.zapto.org/bzcaps/torture2m.log <== another windows user for reference |
| 12:27.33 | Tupone | ahh, I guess DTRemenak is going to fix. Prolly the change he made using the QuickPerformanceCounter |
| 12:27.40 | menotume | ok |
| 12:28.26 | Tupone | hehe, so I bet right :) |
| 12:28.32 | menotume | :) |
| 12:28.42 | menotume | tou da man ! |
| 12:28.49 | menotume | you da man |
| 12:28.54 | Chestal | wow, that's a lot of drift |
| 12:28.59 | menotume | yep |
| 12:29.03 | menotume | a good 9% |
| 12:29.15 | Chestal | I can count the seconds more precisely manually :-) |
| 12:29.15 | menotume | or, a bad 9% |
| 12:29.21 | menotume | lol |
| 12:29.37 | Tupone | even my estimate about having 5/10 % drift was ok. Sound magic .. I just guess :) |
| 12:30.01 | Tupone | prolly is due to the speedstep |
| 12:30.26 | Tupone | intel had a bad way to save battery .... |
| 12:30.35 | menotume | ahhh |
| 12:31.21 | Tupone | speedstep, AFAIK, save battery removing some cycle |
| 12:31.23 | menotume | hmm, but it's pretty consistant |
| 12:31.31 | Chestal | QuickPerformanceCounter uses CPU clocks for timing? |
| 12:31.31 | menotume | ohhh |
| 12:31.39 | Chestal | if so, that's a bad idea |
| 12:31.57 | Tupone | I guess so, but not an expert |
| 12:32.02 | menotume | huh? M$ with a bad diea ? |
| 12:32.25 | menotume | :P |
| 12:32.42 | Chestal | I recently read an article about different ways to do timing in a PC |
| 12:32.45 | Tupone | that is not the Time of Day clock, just an internal counter with lot of precision |
| 12:32.51 | Chestal | there are lots of different ways, but almost all suck :-) |
| 12:33.07 | Chestal | the (quite new) HPET thign is the only way to go |
| 12:33.32 | Tupone | worst of all, I don't like because ntp does/can not use it |
| 12:34.42 | Tupone | and does not change it |
| 12:36.06 | Tupone | I thought about fixing drift in the DeadReckoning algorithm, but with a very bad timing lot of things are messed up, better fix TimeKeeper |
| 12:40.49 | menotume | use AC power / change power-saving settings |
| 12:54.20 | *** join/#bzflag newbie_dont (~a@fw.newitech.pl) |
| 13:00.34 | Tupone | It seems she tested powers-saving times ago with JeffM support |
| 13:11.34 | *** join/#bzflag Teppic (~Teppic@cpc1-cbly2-5-0-cust239.glfd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 13:14.06 | horizstar | when you make a world weapon of a non-weapon type, what does that do? |
| 13:14.23 | horizstar | like if i make a world-weapon have type "V" like on the `man bzw` page? |
| 13:14.41 | horizstar | does that make tanks in that vicinity go faster at that time that weapon "goes off" |
| 13:15.02 | *** part/#bzflag cadu (~cadu@201008080124.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 13:20.18 | Chestal | horizstar: my guess is that the shots become V-shots, i.e. as if fired by a tank carrying the V flag |
| 13:20.55 | horizstar | ahhhh |
| 13:21.02 | horizstar | darn ... this was going to solve my problems |
| 13:21.08 | horizstar | cuz i could put everyone behind a barrier |
| 13:21.16 | horizstar | then make them all jump every 3 minutes :) |
| 13:21.42 | horizstar | but i think i can still do what i need with world weapons |
| 13:21.46 | horizstar | they're very configurable |
| 13:22.03 | horizstar | unfortunately everyone's going to have really really bad scores as a result :D |
| 13:24.21 | *** join/#bzflag _Manu_ (~jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 13:40.11 | *** join/#bzflag Bagheera (~Grumbler@grumbler.bronze.supporter.pdpc) |
| 13:40.16 | Bagheera | morning |
| 13:41.54 | *** join/#bzflag ToughShooter (~ts@p54B07984.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:45.15 | horizstar | is there a way to get super flags to fall at specific times? |
| 13:45.25 | horizstar | when setting up a server |
| 13:45.41 | horizstar | like every 3 minutes have a bunch of jump flags fall? |
| 13:45.54 | menotume | i don't think so |
| 13:46.06 | horizstar | k |
| 13:46.14 | menotume | but, i also don't think there are any map experts here right now |
| 13:46.20 | menotume | :) |
| 13:46.30 | horizstar | tis okay, i've been here all night long asking questions like this |
| 13:46.32 | horizstar | :) |
| 13:47.33 | menotume | but, if you did that, would the whole map be covered with flags after a while ? |
| 13:47.43 | menotume | "wouldn't" |
| 13:48.07 | horizstar | not the way i'm going to do it, but that's still a good point |
| 13:48.26 | horizstar | i could have a cronjob run bzadmin every few minutes and "reset flags" |
| 13:48.28 | horizstar | ... |
| 13:48.31 | horizstar | maybe |
| 13:56.00 | jpa- | horizstar: it is not possible by standard means, but you could use bzadmin like that or modify bzfs source |
| 13:57.18 | TimRiker | horizstar: flags either all start there, or drop randomly over time depending on the options. |
| 13:57.40 | TimRiker | currently the random dropping flags would be random flags, not specified ones. |
| 13:57.57 | horizstar | thanks |
| 13:58.06 | horizstar | hey i think you're the person i want to talk to, tim |
| 13:58.08 | TimRiker | making specific flags drop at specific times would need source changes to bzfs. |
| 13:58.28 | horizstar | basically i'm trying to make a different kind of gametype |
| 13:58.35 | horizstar | simply by creative use of map features |
| 13:58.42 | TimRiker | I'm open to improvements in that area given a good design idea. |
| 13:58.49 | horizstar | i'm trying to make a dodgeball game |
| 13:58.53 | horizstar | where everyone gets one life |
| 13:58.58 | horizstar | :) |
| 13:59.08 | horizstar | and then the game ends after one flag capture |
| 13:59.19 | horizstar | and everyone respawns |
| 13:59.40 | horizstar | but the best i can come up with is to "trap" everyone in a "holding area" for the duration of the game |
| 13:59.43 | horizstar | using world weapons |
| 13:59.57 | horizstar | and then turning off the world weapons for a brief period at the end of every game (every 3 minutes) |
| 14:00.07 | TimRiker | new game types are evaluated based on a lot of criteria. need to not make more of a mess of the game internals as well as be in demand. |
| 14:00.14 | horizstar | indeed |
| 14:00.19 | horizstar | that's why i'm kludging it this way |
| 14:00.41 | horizstar | but a better kludge would be if i could trap everyone behind a wall, and every 3 minutes drop a bunch of "Jump" flags |
| 14:00.49 | horizstar | into the holding pen |
| 14:01.41 | jpa- | i think that could be done completely server-side |
| 14:01.54 | TimRiker | if you are doing it with code changes it should be fairly easy to deny spawn till the game resets. |
| 14:02.12 | horizstar | yeah, i didn't want to touch the code though :D |
| 14:02.23 | jpa- | why not :) |
| 14:02.30 | TimRiker | larger problem is that game resets still require everyone to re-connect. |
| 14:02.36 | horizstar | everyone i've talked to so far has suggested that i make the following dev request: |
| 14:02.46 | horizstar | that game resets NOT require everyone to reconnect |
| 14:02.53 | horizstar | that would be the easiest solution |
| 14:02.55 | TimRiker | that's a big change. |
| 14:02.55 | jpa- | TimRiker: but why reset the complete game.. |
| 14:03.14 | jpa- | just flags and let people spawn |
| 14:03.28 | horizstar | jpa-: actually there are no flags in my gametype |
| 14:03.31 | TimRiker | jpa-: nod. certianly easier. |
| 14:03.40 | horizstar | so it's just a respawn issue |
| 14:03.55 | jpa- | well that shouldn't be difficult |
| 14:04.14 | TimRiker | jpa-: just game end stuff like score reset etc. should be possible to do those bits without a proper game reset. |
| 14:04.33 | jpa- | TimRiker: does he want score reset? |
| 14:04.37 | horizstar | no |
| 14:04.39 | horizstar | no score reset |
| 14:04.43 | horizstar | or yes |
| 14:04.45 | horizstar | doesn't matter |
| 14:04.48 | TimRiker | heh |
| 14:05.00 | horizstar | the whole point is to have independent 3-minute games |
| 14:05.04 | jpa- | so just a gamekeeper variable "allowSpawn" and check it before letting people spawn.. |
| 14:05.09 | jpa- | or maybe hmm.. |
| 14:05.16 | jpa- | something nicer, but easy anyway |
| 14:05.24 | TimRiker | server is in charge of score updates now. (2.x) so it should be possible to set the score to anything yhe server likes at any time. |
| 14:05.32 | jpa- | maybe player->lifesleft |
| 14:06.00 | horizstar | what sort of neat things can bzadmin do? |
| 14:06.08 | jpa- | not much |
| 14:06.12 | horizstar | hmm |
| 14:06.16 | jpa- | run any commands on the server, give output |
| 14:06.38 | TimRiker | horizstar: just things that an admin can do with any client like reset all the flags, kick players, etc. |
| 14:06.47 | horizstar | can you reset the players? :) |
| 14:06.57 | TimRiker | nope. just kick em. |
| 14:07.10 | jpa- | just modify the code, bzadmin isn't very nice solution |
| 14:07.11 | TimRiker | ~kick horizstar |
| 14:07.24 | TimRiker | what? no kick? ;-) |
| 14:07.34 | horizstar | ooh ... you know how people can get bunted to the Observers mode if they're idle? |
| 14:07.42 | horizstar | is there a way to bunt them to the other team? |
| 14:07.58 | jpa- | hmm? |
| 14:08.05 | jpa- | i thought the server just kicks idle players |
| 14:08.11 | TimRiker | from the server, sorta. rabbit mode does that. in normal game play, I don't think there are any hooks for that. |
| 14:08.15 | horizstar | i read somewhere in the bzfs man page that you can change that behavior to move them to Spec |
| 14:08.21 | horizstar | k |
| 14:08.41 | TimRiker | horizstar: I remember that being requested, I don't recall it being implemented, but I could be wrong. |
| 14:09.11 | horizstar | so another way of going about this would be to have to "levels" of spawning |
| 14:09.20 | jpa- | horizstar: can you do C++? C? |
| 14:09.23 | horizstar | a "minor" spawn which takes you to a holding area |
| 14:09.29 | horizstar | and a "major" spawn which takes you to your base |
| 14:09.38 | horizstar | jpa-: yeah |
| 14:09.49 | horizstar | but please don't make me :) |
| 14:09.54 | jpa- | so just implement player->livesLeft :) |
| 14:10.02 | jpa- | it shouldn't be difficult |
| 14:10.11 | jpa- | while, your levels thing could be done with zones |
| 14:10.18 | TimRiker | moving to observer would be nicer. should also stop msg'ing though so observers can't help players. |
| 14:10.21 | horizstar | i have zones |
| 14:10.33 | jpa- | everyone on the same team, after flag capture they spawn on the base |
| 14:10.40 | horizstar | that's how i get "out" players to spawn in the holding area |
| 14:10.51 | horizstar | but without changing the code, i can't get them to spawn on the base |
| 14:10.55 | horizstar | when the "game is over" |
| 14:11.23 | horizstar | unless you know something about zones that i don't |
| 14:11.37 | horizstar | which is entirely likely since i started learning about bzflag maps about 12 hours ago :) |
| 14:11.43 | TimRiker | nope. can't think of a way to get that without code changes. |
| 14:12.10 | horizstar | k |
| 14:12.21 | horizstar | well i'll finish my kludge-world for now |
| 14:12.23 | jpa- | it is opensource anyway, not without a reason :) |
| 14:12.26 | horizstar | see how it works out |
| 14:12.31 | horizstar | then if not i'll edit the source |
| 14:12.45 | horizstar | (which will be a monumental failure i'm sure) |
| 14:14.47 | Tupone | from my spy, I know someone is working on change from observer to team, and viceversa |
| 14:15.00 | Tupone | but no code in yet |
| 14:15.10 | learner | spies, lies, and espionage |
| 14:15.44 | jpa- | and jpa |
| 14:16.12 | Tupone | I learner ... how did you plan to help SC ? |
| 14:16.20 | Tupone | s/I/Hi/ |
| 14:16.47 | jpa- | still suffering from jitter? |
| 14:17.05 | Tupone | but now we know the cause :) |
| 14:17.29 | jpa- | it is not me, is it? :) |
| 14:17.41 | Tupone | is jpa- ! |
| 14:18.40 | learner | dtr or myself is going to write the drift compensation into our timekeeper |
| 14:18.52 | TimRiker | Tupone: cool. should be possible to give admin control to team changing. rabbit stuff does that, more or less. |
| 14:19.19 | Tupone | drift ... why not use other timer, like system clock? |
| 14:19.44 | horizstar | if a team base is not in the only spawn zone for that team, would changing a player's team mid-game cause them to spawn in the spawn zone or on the base? |
| 14:20.22 | jpa- | Tupone: i think he means client-server drift |
| 14:21.17 | Tupone | server is not involved |
| 14:21.21 | TimRiker | we know the cause of the jitter? confirmed a system clock issue then? |
| 14:21.25 | learner | Tupone, qpc is the best timer to use by a long shot on that platform |
| 14:21.28 | Tupone | seems so |
| 14:21.58 | TimRiker | so if SC runs a ntp client does her jitter go away? |
| 14:22.04 | Tupone | but that is not synchronizable from NTP, for instance ... |
| 14:22.08 | learner | the secondary less resolution timer is actually used to determine if the qpc is jumping |
| 14:22.24 | Tupone | TimRiker: that timer is just hardware |
| 14:22.31 | learner | TimRiker, no, not system clock |
| 14:22.34 | Tupone | is not a kernel mantained one |
| 14:22.36 | TimRiker | qpc? |
| 14:22.42 | learner | QueryPerformanceTimer |
| 14:22.50 | learner | s/Timer/Counter/ |
| 14:23.05 | Tupone | I hate that |
| 14:23.08 | learner | it's their version of gettimeofday, but higher resolution |
| 14:23.13 | horizstar | quick quiz: is "rotation" a degrees or radians parameter? |
| 14:23.29 | TimRiker | horizstar: degrees in the world file. |
| 14:23.34 | horizstar | hmm |
| 14:23.37 | TimRiker | horizstar: radians in the source. ;-) |
| 14:23.40 | horizstar | my calculations were way off then |
| 14:23.41 | horizstar | argh |
| 14:23.42 | horizstar | lol |
| 14:23.56 | horizstar | isn't this what caused that British satellite to bounce off of Mars's atmosphere? :) |
| 14:24.03 | jpa- | horizstar: tip, http://www.kapsi.fi/~jpa/stuff/bzw/ |
| 14:24.05 | learner | uses the hardware clock tick rate frequency to given the high accuracy |
| 14:24.11 | horizstar | jpa-: thanks, been there :) |
| 14:24.16 | jpa- | bah :/ |
| 14:24.50 | learner | the problem in her case is that either QPC is drifting back in time or (more likely, imo) the reported QueryPerformanceFrequency is slightly incorrect |
| 14:25.06 | jpa- | horizstar: i think it was because of not converting cm -> inch |
| 14:25.18 | Tupone | learner: I should read more, but if one day we want to use ntp (or similar) to synchronize player it does not seems to work, need implement ntp in bzflag :) |
| 14:25.31 | learner | QPF is supposed to be a constant value returned from the bios/hardware |
| 14:26.22 | horizstar | jpa-: yeah, i think so too :) i was just teasing |
| 14:28.37 | learner | tupone, that's almost what we have already without ntp |
| 14:28.52 | learner | the problem is just incorrect values coming from the timer that needs to be fixed |
| 14:29.31 | learner | what we do is very much like ntp already, without actually using the ntp protocol |
| 14:29.40 | Tupone | normally ntp do a drift correction using measurement. You wanna do the ntp algo inside bzflag |
| 14:29.48 | Bagheera | this is not going to be just a SC fix is it.....i know she is the leading jitter-er.........i have seen a few with this issue |
| 14:29.49 | learner | yes |
| 14:30.09 | learner | but that would be a server-client drift time negotiation |
| 14:30.46 | learner | in this case, the client was still drifting too fast .. the timer has to be changed/fixed |
| 14:31.06 | learner | even with it drift-adjusting against the server every couple secs, it was drifting too fast |
| 14:31.07 | Tupone | why not just doing time-of-day <-> QPC/QPF compensation |
| 14:31.32 | learner | that is what we're basically going to do |
| 14:32.35 | Tupone | the only thing .. I like to see what windows ntp (if any9 does, and where it put the result |
| 14:33.15 | learner | the secondary timer that will be used to check the drift adjustment is sort of a time of day counter like gettimeofday |
| 14:34.30 | learner | i wouldn't rely at all on an external system ntp |
| 14:34.40 | learner | that's just asking for trouble |
| 14:34.41 | Tupone | what is the precision of system clock, actually? |
| 14:34.42 | Bagheera | amazing that all this drift calc got added to 2.0 |
| 14:35.05 | learner | Bagheera, there's no drift calc yet :) |
| 14:35.15 | learner | "will be used" |
| 14:35.32 | Bagheera | soooo, why would this not be an issue in pre-2.0 stuff? |
| 14:36.05 | learner | because the packets weren't being timestamped and modified on the server based on that timestamp |
| 14:36.21 | Bagheera | ah, its the servers fault :) |
| 14:36.28 | Tupone | cause I fixed/broken the DeadReckoing staff, taking into account delay of packet |
| 14:36.37 | learner | i think we determined last night that tupone made the fatal change on the server side? :) |
| 14:36.50 | Tupone | no server side |
| 14:36.54 | Tupone | client side |
| 14:37.03 | learner | ahh |
| 14:37.14 | Tupone | more precisely, observer |
| 14:37.21 | learner | the assumptions were good, though -- the bug is valid |
| 14:37.59 | learner | menotume got some solid numbers that showed her drift sliding away like butter |
| 14:38.32 | Chestal | it sure looks like her local clock (as calced by bzflag) is _extremely_ inaccurate |
| 14:40.10 | Bagheera | there are a couple people out there with inaccurate clocks.........one of those lessons |
| 14:40.11 | learner | actually it's just "very slightly" wrong |
| 14:40.19 | learner | the problem is with how bzflag does it's timer |
| 14:40.23 | learner | it accumulates time |
| 14:40.33 | learner | so it's compounded error the longer she plays |
| 14:40.44 | Tupone | I wonder how SDL does that on windows |
| 14:40.46 | learner | within a few minutes, she's unplayable |
| 14:41.00 | learner | Tupone, that was one suggestion I thought to try.. |
| 14:41.09 | learner | there's an SDL_GetTick or somesort |
| 14:41.22 | learner | would be interesting to test it out and see if they compensate already |
| 14:41.27 | Tupone | learner: I start to correct the timestamp after 10 measurement |
| 14:42.16 | learner | "correct the timestamp"?? |
| 14:42.30 | Tupone | so I bet she start jiittering after a while (30 sec) |
| 14:42.40 | Tupone | correct the position with timestamp info |
| 14:42.41 | learner | you modify the timekeeper's internal counter? |
| 14:42.49 | Tupone | sry |
| 14:43.12 | Tupone | no timekeeper, only deadreckoning |
| 14:43.16 | learner | ok |
| 14:43.18 | horizstar | oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh |
| 14:43.22 | horizstar | just thought of something |
| 14:43.28 | horizstar | if i make my barrier weapon a laser |
| 14:43.38 | horizstar | and change the server variable to leave the laser around for 3 minutes |
| 14:43.42 | horizstar | then i just have to fire it once :) |
| 14:43.56 | horizstar | (in case anyone cared :) |
| 14:44.07 | learner | horizstar, not a bad idea :) |
| 14:44.08 | Bagheera | horizstar< yes, you can see that in the louman map |
| 14:44.25 | learner | make the spawn zones behind the laser |
| 14:44.31 | horizstar | yep |
| 14:44.33 | horizstar | exactly |
| 14:44.40 | horizstar | fun fun fun |
| 14:44.51 | learner | then it's like opening the door to a herd of cattle |
| 14:45.02 | horizstar | which is exactly what i wanted all along |
| 14:45.06 | horizstar | ah sweetness |
| 14:45.22 | learner | you'll need a shot line too, so they can't shoot from the spawn zone |
| 14:45.31 | horizstar | the spawn zone is elevated |
| 14:45.34 | horizstar | above the playfield |
| 14:45.43 | learner | why do that? :) |
| 14:45.46 | horizstar | with a small wall, and a hole in the wall where the laser will go |
| 14:46.03 | horizstar | because i wanted people to be able to see the action |
| 14:46.12 | horizstar | and i couldn't figure out how to make transparent walls |
| 14:46.37 | Bagheera | you can make semi-transparent |
| 14:46.39 | horizstar | (b/c i don't have a clue what i'm doing here :) |
| 14:47.06 | horizstar | yeah, i know that one can do that ... however i also know that *I* cannot do that :) |
| 14:47.21 | Bagheera | learn |
| 14:47.24 | horizstar | rofl |
| 14:47.38 | horizstar | it's been 12 hours since i started this stuff, and i've had a migraine the whole time :\ |
| 14:51.36 | *** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast007@24-196-92-143.jvl.wi.charter.com) |
| 14:52.25 | *** join/#bzflag SportChick (~SportChic@ca-redbch-cuda1-c5b-b-192.stmnca.adelphia.net) |
| 15:10.13 | *** join/#bzflag bz7393 (~cea28ffc@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 15:30.45 | *** join/#bzflag cadu (~cadu@200.179.42.157) |
| 15:30.52 | cadu | hi! there's a non-gl version of bzflag ? |
| 15:31.00 | cadu | with like 320x200 resolution etc |
| 15:33.11 | learner | what do you mean by non-gl? it will work on software gl emulation mode |
| 15:33.24 | learner | but it is inherintly an opengl game |
| 15:34.39 | TimRiker | cadu: no. |
| 15:35.24 | TimRiker | I've run the linux GL version on things as small as a 200Mhz strongarm with no FPU, but it's unplayable. 6fps with fastmath libs compiled in. |
| 15:35.48 | cadu | but without a gl accelleration ? |
| 15:35.51 | cadu | strongarm !? o_O |
| 15:35.51 | TimRiker | it'll do down to 256x192 but then most text is unreadable. =/ |
| 15:36.11 | horizstar | anyone have a URL or man page that explains the meaning of all the /set vars in bzfs? |
| 15:36.23 | horizstar | such as _laserAdLife and _laserAdRate :) |
| 15:36.31 | TimRiker | cadu: yeah. I know of some TI folks working on a port the the OMAP2 which includes 3d accel. should run fine there. |
| 15:37.21 | TimRiker | horizstar: http://bzflag.org/wiki/ServerVariables |
| 15:37.31 | learner | horizstar, only the source code, afaik |
| 15:37.40 | learner | ahh, someone wrote somethign up.. neat |
| 15:37.49 | horizstar | hey sweet |
| 15:37.57 | horizstar | i actually just found http://www.bzflag.org/wiki/NetworkProtocol |
| 15:38.02 | horizstar | which has your #defines |
| 15:38.14 | horizstar | er, consts |
| 15:38.24 | horizstar | i thought that AdLife was seconds, not multiplication ... |
| 15:38.57 | horizstar | but it does seem to be a multiplicative thing :\ |
| 15:41.17 | cadu | TimRiker: strongarm was something portable ? |
| 15:41.17 | horizstar | awesome |
| 15:41.20 | horizstar | my map works :) |
| 15:41.24 | horizstar | i'm so happy :) |
| 15:45.33 | TimRiker | cadu: arm9 processor built by intel. example: old compaq iPAQ. newer ones are XScale. |
| 15:46.12 | TimRiker | cadu: and yes, iPAQ was one of the ones I ran it on. |
| 15:52.52 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~JeffM@Patlabor221.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 15:52.52 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 15:54.24 | cadu | TimRiker: you ran bzflag on a portable ?? o_O |
| 15:54.25 | cadu | whoa :D |
| 15:55.30 | SportChick | TimRiker: did you hear they may have identified my problems (/me crosses her fingers that this really works) |
| 15:55.50 | ruskie | nice |
| 15:55.56 | ruskie | so you can come and shoot us some more... |
| 15:56.08 | SportChick | well, not until the new client is coded, but I am hopeful |
| 15:57.16 | GvzEvxre | SportChick: yeah I heard. great work all! |
| 15:59.24 | horizstar | lol |
| 15:59.36 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (~CannonBal@cpc3-stme1-5-0-cust91.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 16:00.04 | ruskie | jpa-, and what is it? |
| 16:01.14 | horizstar | so the shot length is defined by ShotRange/ShotSpeed, and then GMAdLife and laserAdLife are both multipliers for that amount |
| 16:01.16 | horizstar | is that right? |
| 16:01.52 | horizstar | shot life* i should say |
| 16:04.12 | horizstar | ah wait that's defined as ReloadTime ... cool |
| 16:17.15 | JeffM2501 | ? |
| 16:17.30 | JeffM2501 | probably would help if I was awake |
| 16:17.42 | *** join/#bzflag brad2901 (brad2901@ACBCFAB5.ipt.aol.com) |
| 16:21.02 | JeffM2501 | awwww trepan didn't draw them a little picture :) |
| 16:21.51 | *** join/#bzflag wizart (~wizart@dsl-084-058-004-240.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:22.01 | JeffM2501 | dude I can't type propper sentances when I'm wake |
| 16:22.14 | CBG | Rofl! True! |
| 16:22.43 | CBG | If you'r not awake, and you'r not asleep, what are you? |
| 16:23.08 | JeffM2501 | there are many states inbetween |
| 16:23.18 | CBG | Really? Such as? |
| 16:30.47 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@63.147.94.151) |
| 16:31.09 | JeffM2501 | such as that state |
| 16:41.46 | ruskie | hmmm where does bzflag store downloaded maps? |
| 16:41.54 | JeffM2501 | cache folder |
| 16:42.02 | JeffM2501 | if you are set to cache them |
| 16:42.18 | JeffM2501 | or do you mean when you say "download map" ? |
| 16:42.28 | ruskie | when it's saying downloading map |
| 16:42.40 | ruskie | it's trying to download: http://balin.pimpi.org/newviper1.bin |
| 16:42.40 | JeffM2501 | like when you just join? |
| 16:42.57 | ruskie | and it's takking waaayyy to long to download |
| 16:43.03 | JeffM2501 | if you are set to cache it it will keep it in the cashe folder |
| 16:43.09 | JeffM2501 | if you arn't then it dosn't save it to disk |
| 16:43.10 | JeffM2501 | just ram |
| 16:43.24 | ruskie | but still it should dl it as fast as wget does shoulnd't it? |
| 16:43.30 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 16:43.34 | JeffM2501 | unless there is a bug |
| 16:43.42 | ruskie | hmmm better try updating to latest cvs |
| 16:43.43 | JeffM2501 | or the connection timed out |
| 16:46.15 | *** part/#bzflag cadu (~cadu@200.179.42.157) |
| 16:50.08 | *** join/#bzflag _Manu_ (~jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 17:01.40 | SportChick | is it possible to put screenshots in pastebin? |
| 17:04.13 | SportChick | Anyone know what could cause this result: |
| 17:04.32 | SportChick | http://www.kirkanddonna.com/donna/Temp/bzfi0000.png |
| 17:04.32 | ToughShooter | Why shouldn't it? At least you can put the string inside file |
| 17:04.40 | SportChick | http://www.kirkanddonna.com/donna/Temp/bzfi0001.png |
| 17:04.44 | SportChick | http://www.kirkanddonna.com/donna/Temp/bzfi0002.png |
| 17:04.49 | SportChick | http://www.kirkanddonna.com/donna/Temp/bzfi0003.png |
| 17:04.54 | SportChick | http://www.kirkanddonna.com/donna/Temp/bzfi0004.png |
| 17:05.18 | SportChick | the player is on windows, I believe 2.0.2 stable |
| 17:07.35 | JeffM2501 | what crapy video card? |
| 17:08.36 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (~CannonBal@cpc3-stme1-5-0-cust91.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 17:11.48 | DTRemenak | seems to be a SuperSavage based on the first screen |
| 17:12.01 | ruskie | hmmm I thought worlds were nothing else but plain text files not binary files... |
| 17:12.04 | SportChick | dunno |
| 17:12.27 | JeffM2501 | odd that bzflaf would display it there |
| 17:12.28 | JeffM2501 | like thgat |
| 17:12.28 | DTRemenak | ruskie: both are true |
| 17:12.31 | JeffM2501 | at that size |
| 17:12.46 | ruskie | DTRemenak? |
| 17:12.51 | JeffM2501 | ruskie, map files are text, bzfs makes them binary for transmision to the client |
| 17:12.58 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: not really odd |
| 17:12.59 | ruskie | erm |
| 17:13.18 | ruskie | "Loading world from http://balin.pimpi.org/newviper1.bin" |
| 17:13.19 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, I don't recall the GL driver line looking like that |
| 17:13.23 | ruskie | and it just stays there |
| 17:13.33 | JeffM2501 | ruskie, then the URL is busted |
| 17:13.44 | ruskie | and I can manualy fetch it using wget |
| 17:13.52 | JeffM2501 | then something else is busted |
| 17:14.05 | JeffM2501 | the server is trying to tell you to get the binary map via HTTP |
| 17:14.11 | JeffM2501 | and HTTP has been in flux of late |
| 17:14.22 | ruskie | is there a wayto manual dl and stuff somehwere? |
| 17:14.32 | JeffM2501 | maybe it'd be a pita |
| 17:14.44 | ruskie | <-- is used to pita :) |
| 17:14.51 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: mine says "GeForce3/PCI/SSE/3DNOW!" |
| 17:15.00 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 17:15.02 | JeffM2501 | that's what I'm used to |
| 17:15.10 | JeffM2501 | at least seeing AGP |
| 17:15.11 | DTRemenak | it's just the ID string from the driver |
| 17:15.12 | JeffM2501 | or PCI |
| 17:15.13 | JeffM2501 | or whatnot |
| 17:15.18 | JeffM2501 | not just the card name |
| 17:15.22 | JeffM2501 | bbiab |
| 17:15.29 | JeffM2501 | but sounds like they need better drivers |
| 17:15.33 | ruskie | and latest cvs didn't want to build... :( |
| 17:16.46 | ruskie | this is weird.... |
| 17:17.41 | ruskie | gaahhh only with viper I have the problem it seems... |
| 17:21.13 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@host-84-222-136-15.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 17:24.22 | Tupone | SportChick: have not read what they are doing, but the timer bzflag is using on windows behave bad on your laptop. I guess they are trying to make it doing a better job |
| 17:25.46 | *** join/#bzflag Thelastdarlick (~502bc592@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 17:27.43 | *** join/#bzflag thelastdarlick (~502bc592@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 17:28.19 | JeffM2501 | ruskie, they are probably the only server doing the HTTP get of a world, usualy the bzfs just sends it out. |
| 17:28.29 | thelastdarlick | <TimRiker> ~bzfquery bzflag.secretplace.us:5255 |
| 17:28.41 | DTRemenak | SportChick: the screen shots indicate that the person is having trouble with a change I made to improve speed in 2.0.2. The change has already been reverted in 2.0.3; if you'd like to send that person the url to grab the build I made for you, that might help him. |
| 17:28.53 | thelastdarlick | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:29.08 | ruskie | JeffM2501, so is there a way I can trick bzflag into having the newviper1.bin in it's cache somehow? |
| 17:29.16 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 17:29.27 | JeffM2501 | put it in there and name it with the MD5 of the file |
| 17:29.43 | ruskie | with a .bwc ext? |
| 17:29.57 | JeffM2501 | ja |
| 17:30.02 | CBG | Who runs the fortix.bzflag.org thingymajig? |
| 17:30.17 | orange | david_v |
| 17:30.37 | CBG | It's just it's not working... :( |
| 17:31.05 | thelastdarlick | -d options |
| 17:31.05 | orange | isn't there an email link on it? |
| 17:31.10 | JeffM2501 | thelastdarlick, what are you trying to do? |
| 17:31.45 | SportChick | DTRemenak: okay, thanks |
| 17:31.58 | Tupone | SportChick: do you have Win2K ? |
| 17:32.34 | Tupone | I mean, your laptop |
| 17:33.46 | CBG | Got it: fortix@gmail.com |
| 17:33.51 | Tupone | DTRemenak: have you read the SDL SDL_systimer.c |
| 17:34.43 | DTRemenak | Tupone: no, but that's a great idea. what did they do? |
| 17:34.43 | thelastdarlick | im trying to see if my server is there |
| 17:35.13 | Tupone | they do not use QPC :-> Apparently there are problems with QPC on Win2K |
| 17:35.21 | menotume | Tupone: Sporty was XP |
| 17:35.27 | menotume | err, has |
| 17:35.36 | Tupone | ok, they use timeBeginPeriod(1); |
| 17:35.47 | Tupone | and timeGetTime(); |
| 17:36.09 | Tupone | the first should set the resolution |
| 17:36.14 | Tupone | to 1 msec |
| 17:36.31 | Tupone | the 2nd get the time |
| 17:37.03 | JeffM2501 | thelastdarlick, get http://my.bzflag.org/db/ and look for your server name |
| 17:37.07 | JeffM2501 | tha'ts the full list server |
| 17:37.21 | JeffM2501 | QPC can vary |
| 17:37.23 | JeffM2501 | with cycles |
| 17:37.27 | Chestal | learner: it seems to be almost 10% off, that's several orders of magnitude worse than one would expect |
| 17:37.37 | JeffM2501 | timeGetTime is not a good replacement |
| 17:37.42 | thelastdarlick | thanks jeffM2501 |
| 17:37.42 | DTRemenak | Tupone: hm. timeGetTime is not good enough |
| 17:37.45 | JeffM2501 | it has a minimum granularity of 10ms |
| 17:37.48 | DTRemenak | in general anyway |
| 17:37.49 | Chestal | for jitter lag (as in /lagstats) I don't thin there is an accumulation effect |
| 17:37.56 | Chestal | it just compares dt on client and server |
| 17:37.57 | Tupone | I guess you can set to 1 msec |
| 17:38.07 | DTRemenak | minimum is closer to 1ms...but only on some machines |
| 17:38.11 | Tupone | with timeBeginPeriod(1) |
| 17:38.11 | SportChick | Tupone: I have win xp |
| 17:38.12 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, there are some good timer code snipits on codeguru and gamedev.net |
| 17:38.14 | JeffM2501 | for windows |
| 17:38.24 | DTRemenak | most desktops have a min res in timeGetTime of something like 15ms |
| 17:38.30 | JeffM2501 | ones that adapt for changing frequencys |
| 17:39.07 | JeffM2501 | or she could go into her bios and turn off CPU throttle |
| 17:39.16 | Chestal | a PC has so many timers |
| 17:39.20 | Chestal | and some of them are quite accurate |
| 17:39.27 | Chestal | WIndows shoudl be able to ue one of them :-) |
| 17:39.30 | JeffM2501 | QPC is very accurate |
| 17:39.42 | JeffM2501 | but it dosn't work well on systems that change CPU speed |
| 17:39.44 | JeffM2501 | like laptops |
| 17:39.45 | Chestal | isn't QPC based on CPU clock? That's not a good idea |
| 17:39.46 | Tupone | they also can use gettickcount |
| 17:39.51 | Chestal | it's not even accurate I think |
| 17:39.57 | JeffM2501 | it's based on the timer in the chip |
| 17:40.05 | Chestal | it's good to measure things in clock steps, but not good to measure time |
| 17:40.06 | JeffM2501 | not the full CPU clock |
| 17:40.24 | JeffM2501 | QPC was mostly added for profiling of code |
| 17:40.48 | Tupone | DTRemenak: getTickCount() ? |
| 17:40.58 | JeffM2501 | Tupone, that's even worse |
| 17:41.02 | Tupone | lol |
| 17:41.09 | Chestal | there was an article in c't recently |
| 17:41.16 | Chestal | not about timer API, but about the hardware |
| 17:41.26 | Chestal | let me check it, I think it also said two small thigns about what WIndows uses |
| 17:42.13 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, |
| 17:42.13 | JeffM2501 | http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article2086.asp |
| 17:42.14 | ruskie | hmmm seems something in the code doesn't like being build wihout bot support... |
| 17:42.24 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: oddly, I still have that article open from last night ;) |
| 17:42.31 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 17:42.35 | JeffM2501 | very good |
| 17:42.40 | JeffM2501 | great minds and all that |
| 17:42.44 | DTRemenak | yup |
| 17:43.09 | JeffM2501 | ewww gametutorials.com got all fugly |
| 17:43.37 | JeffM2501 | I remember somewhere where somone had a lib that did some good stuff |
| 17:43.42 | JeffM2501 | or some snippet code |
| 17:44.01 | JeffM2501 | or maybe just use SDL time? |
| 17:44.04 | JeffM2501 | does it comp for it? |
| 17:44.07 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: if you want to write or snarf some code to do the compensation, feel free. I was going to look at the top couple here http://www.cbloom.com/misc/index.html to begin with. |
| 17:44.34 | JeffM2501 | ohh I don't want to write a damn thing, I was just trying to thow out helpfull ideas :) |
| 17:44.42 | DTRemenak | hehe |
| 17:44.56 | JeffM2501 | sill I wonder what SDL does |
| 17:45.24 | JeffM2501 | may be interesting to see if an SDL build helps her at all |
| 17:45.38 | JeffM2501 | since that could be done decently easy |
| 17:46.09 | DTRemenak | I have vector calculus and chem lab to do today, then I'm leaving tonight. Earliest I can write anything is monday night. |
| 17:46.48 | JeffM2501 | hence why SDL may be fast and easy |
| 17:47.17 | Tupone | JeffM2501, DTRemenak: I can try to handle SDL/native dynamically on windows, switching it by config file. Do you thing is worth ? |
| 17:47.21 | JeffM2501 | where you off to this weekend? |
| 17:47.30 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: check out the top file on the link I sent. the description sounds good but I haven't looked at the code |
| 17:47.43 | SportChick | MONDAY?! |
| 17:47.55 | JeffM2501 | Tupone, I don't think that woudl be needed |
| 17:48.00 | SportChick | :( |
| 17:48.03 | JeffM2501 | it would be ether or |
| 17:48.09 | DTRemenak | SportChick: after 4 months, 3 days shouldn't be too bad ;) |
| 17:48.26 | JeffM2501 | but before any code was changed to use SDL, I'd rather thing just trying an SDL build on her system would be smart |
| 17:48.47 | JeffM2501 | unless SDL just uses qpc |
| 17:48.52 | JeffM2501 | withc it very well may\ |
| 17:48.59 | Tupone | does not use that |
| 17:49.04 | JeffM2501 | what's it use? |
| 17:49.07 | Chestal | what did the old code use? That worked? |
| 17:49.12 | Tupone | what I said before :) |
| 17:49.22 | JeffM2501 | wow |
| 17:49.25 | Tupone | timeGetTime or getTick |
| 17:49.29 | DTRemenak | Chestal: the old code didn't send any timer stuff over the network |
| 17:49.31 | SportChick | DTRemenak: yeah, but what if it doesn't work?! I'll be back to where I started, 4 months and 3 days later |
| 17:49.32 | JeffM2501 | guess granularity dosn't mean much |
| 17:49.47 | JeffM2501 | SportChick, people have lives too |
| 17:50.02 | SportChick | JeffM2501: I know that! and DTR (hopefully) knows I'm kidding |
| 17:50.17 | JeffM2501 | SportChick, open your bios and see if you can turn off CPU throttleing |
| 17:50.25 | JeffM2501 | that may make it run more like a desktop for now |
| 17:50.30 | JeffM2501 | will suck more batery power |
| 17:50.41 | Chestal | DTRemenak: it did, it has been doing this since 1.10 IIRC |
| 17:50.58 | DTRemenak | SportChick: this is the best lead we've ever had. once we find the problem the solution isn't so much work ;) |
| 17:50.59 | Chestal | DTRemenak: I thought there was a recent change in the TimeKeeper code for Windows? |
| 17:51.37 | DTRemenak | Chestal: Tupone found the change he made in 2.0 that caused the timer dependency across network |
| 17:51.55 | Chestal | that could affect the dead reckoning, i.e. how other player see you |
| 17:52.05 | Chestal | but that is not related to lagstats jitter value |
| 17:52.09 | Tupone | yeah, that is the problem |
| 17:52.25 | Chestal | there was a change that not the tick time is used, not current time when sending MPU |
| 17:53.08 | Chestal | Tupone: the jitter compensation code has problems with slow clock drift? |
| 17:53.21 | Chestal | (not that this clock drift is anythng like slow :-) |
| 17:53.49 | Tupone | with slow should not have problem, in my mind, it use barely the previous 10 samples |
| 17:54.05 | Tupone | or a number near that |
| 17:55.02 | Chestal | with a clock drift as high as 10%, jitter will could be around 50ms I guess, depending on the pattern of MPU |
| 17:55.11 | Chestal | IIRC MPU is sent at least once a second |
| 17:55.19 | Chestal | that would give 100ms extra latency |
| 17:55.40 | Chestal | for MPU which follow fast, that latency is not there |
| 17:55.47 | Chestal | so average jitter can be somethign in-between |
| 17:55.56 | Chestal | calculated jitter that is |
| 17:56.08 | Chestal | grmpf, cannot find that article |
| 17:56.21 | Tupone | jitter should not be affeccted by timestamp, I guess |
| 17:56.39 | Tupone | I suppose is the round trip computed by server |
| 17:56.56 | Tupone | jitter -> lag as measured by lag/stat |
| 17:57.05 | Tupone | not jitter, sry |
| 17:57.23 | Chestal | yes, the latency value isn't |
| 17:57.43 | SportChick | JeffM2501: I will - just remind me where to do that |
| 17:58.12 | JeffM2501 | it's not part of windows or anything |
| 17:58.17 | JeffM2501 | it's in the bios |
| 17:58.17 | *** join/#bzflag Birdie (~birdie@d51A465C1.access.telenet.be) |
| 17:58.21 | JeffM2501 | when the PC first starts up |
| 17:58.23 | Chestal | ok, found the article |
| 17:58.31 | JeffM2501 | shoudl say something like hit F1 to enter setup |
| 17:58.45 | JeffM2501 | or some other key |
| 17:58.59 | JeffM2501 | that will take you to the basic hardware configuration section |
| 17:59.14 | JeffM2501 | then poke around for something that says CPU throttle |
| 17:59.20 | JeffM2501 | kurt should know where the bios is |
| 17:59.23 | Chestal | there are 7 different timers in a PC :-) |
| 17:59.33 | SportChick | so I should hit f1 before windows starts to boot, right? |
| 17:59.37 | SportChick | kirk is at work |
| 17:59.44 | JeffM2501 | F1 or some other key |
| 17:59.50 | SportChick | k - brb |
| 17:59.50 | JeffM2501 | you'll have to read the startup screen |
| 17:59.52 | JeffM2501 | the black one |
| 17:59.55 | JeffM2501 | it will say |
| 18:00.01 | JeffM2501 | it's usualy F1 or F2 or DEL |
| 18:00.17 | Tupone | does QueryPerformanceFrequency return the same value always? I mean does not depends on speedstep ? |
| 18:00.33 | JeffM2501 | QPF may change if the CPU thortles |
| 18:00.43 | JeffM2501 | IIRC |
| 18:00.43 | Tupone | so , we just read once |
| 18:00.50 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:00.50 | Tupone | on bzflag |
| 18:01.08 | Tupone | that could be a problem, perhaps |
| 18:01.13 | JeffM2501 | one of them |
| 18:01.35 | Chestal | hmm, WIndoiws PerformanceTimer can be based on different hardware timers |
| 18:01.44 | Chestal | it depends on hardware and driver config |
| 18:01.55 | Chestal | if it uses HPET; everythign should be fine |
| 18:02.07 | Chestal | if it uses TSC (CPU), there are some issues to be dealt with |
| 18:02.25 | Chestal | QUeryPerformanceFrequency should give a good hint on what timer is actually used |
| 18:03.02 | Chestal | not that we can influence it directly |
| 18:04.53 | Chestal | the article also talks about "waitable timers" of Windows, it's not a Windows article, but a hardware one, so it doesn#t give any details |
| 18:05.23 | Chestal | I find it strange, that Windows would not compensate for dynamic CPU frequency when it bases its performance counters on TSC |
| 18:05.51 | Chestal | such a value would be more or less useless to the application |
| 18:06.20 | Chestal | I wonder whether there is either a bug in the bz code or a driver/whatever problem on SC's Windows |
| 18:06.58 | Tupone | bzflag code, in case of error from QueryPerformanceFrequency, uses the timeGetTime |
| 18:07.28 | Chestal | why would thast give an error? |
| 18:07.29 | JeffM2501 | make a config option to allways use timeGetTime |
| 18:07.39 | JeffM2501 | Chestal, qpf dosn't exist on all CPUs |
| 18:07.48 | Chestal | it's not a CPU thing, it's a windows thing |
| 18:07.49 | JeffM2501 | aka old pentiums |
| 18:07.51 | Chestal | TSC is the CPU thing |
| 18:07.59 | Chestal | qpf can use different timers |
| 18:08.10 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (~CannonBal@cpc3-stme1-5-0-cust91.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 18:08.12 | JeffM2501 | ok well what windows calls on the CPU dosn't work on old old CPUs |
| 18:08.16 | JeffM2501 | and it errors |
| 18:08.17 | Chestal | the 8253/54, the PM-Timer, HPET or TSC |
| 18:08.32 | JeffM2501 | it can error |
| 18:08.34 | Chestal | HPET is new stuff, maybe only with new PCs and XP |
| 18:08.41 | JeffM2501 | also don't think it was supported under 95 |
| 18:08.43 | Chestal | 8253/54 is odl stuff, better not to use that .-) |
| 18:09.08 | Chestal | PM is ACPI |
| 18:09.10 | JeffM2501 | Tupone, thow in a bzdb config option to force timegettime and I'll make her a build |
| 18:09.14 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (~timr@TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 18:09.14 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 18:09.16 | JeffM2501 | see if the old code works better for her then |
| 18:09.28 | CBG | Hi Sir Riker. ;) |
| 18:09.36 | Tupone | ok, If I can do in an hour ... |
| 18:09.44 | Tupone | I'll try :) |
| 18:09.56 | Chestal | could be intersting to see the Frequency value |
| 18:10.07 | Chestal | would tell us, which HW timer is actually used |
| 18:10.30 | *** join/#bzflag ElectricElf (debian-tor@ElectricElf.developer.debian) |
| 18:12.15 | *** join/#bzflag SportChick (~SportChic@ca-redbch-cuda1-c5b-b-192.stmnca.adelphia.net) |
| 18:12.43 | SportChick | there was no option to turn off throttling - I checked every tab |
| 18:14.28 | Chestal | apropos TSC: the hyperthreading vulnerability is interesting, although it was a bit inflated on /. |
| 18:15.39 | JeffM2501 | that sucks |
| 18:16.11 | JeffM2501 | Tupone, I should just be able to comment out the qpf call and fall thru to the timegettime then right? |
| 18:16.15 | JeffM2501 | and build for her? |
| 18:16.30 | Tupone | yeah ... better then messing with code, adding methods .. |
| 18:16.34 | JeffM2501 | k |
| 18:16.39 | JeffM2501 | let me give it a shot |
| 18:16.53 | JeffM2501 | gotta wait for the home dirs to backup anyway |
| 18:17.04 | JeffM2501 | what file? |
| 18:17.10 | Tupone | TimeKeeper.cxx |
| 18:17.14 | Tupone | under common |
| 18:17.38 | Tupone | line 91 |
| 18:17.42 | JeffM2501 | k |
| 18:17.44 | JeffM2501 | geting latest |
| 18:18.00 | JeffM2501 | good lord who checked in the plg files into ares? |
| 18:18.29 | Tupone | what are the plg ? |
| 18:18.36 | JeffM2501 | program lookup database |
| 18:18.54 | JeffM2501 | local IDE offsets for code and stuff for debuging and browse info |
| 18:18.58 | JeffM2501 | they change every time you build |
| 18:19.43 | Tupone | I did, copying from the c-ares tar.gz |
| 18:19.53 | JeffM2501 | joy |
| 18:19.53 | Tupone | remove whatever is not needed, please |
| 18:19.57 | JeffM2501 | yeah doing it |
| 18:19.59 | CIA-5 | BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10bzflag/src/c-ares/vc/areslib/areslib.plg: remove the PLG, it's a local chace file and difrent for everyone |
| 18:20.19 | Tupone | I'm a noob |
| 18:20.25 | _Manu_ | :) |
| 18:20.28 | JeffM2501 | wasn't you, was the ares windows guy |
| 18:20.40 | JeffM2501 | was geting a confict every time I got latest |
| 18:21.03 | CIA-5 | BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10bzflag/src/c-ares/vc/adig/adig.plg: remove the PLG, it's a local chace file and difrent for everyone |
| 18:22.57 | JeffM2501 | SportChick, we are going to try someting for ya |
| 18:25.02 | SportChick | JeffM2501: cool |
| 18:25.09 | SportChick | just give me a shout when I need to do something |
| 18:25.29 | JeffM2501 | I'm building now |
| 18:25.36 | horizstar | hmm well ... people liked my dodgeball map, but there are some things that need improvement |
| 18:25.40 | horizstar | so time to do that |
| 18:26.18 | *** join/#bzflag Noodleman (~tuckerm@12-210-73-82.client.insightBB.com) |
| 18:28.43 | JeffM2501 | whooo look at all the warnings |
| 18:29.46 | DTRemenak | learner was experimenting, probably needs to revert a change |
| 18:29.49 | DTRemenak | don't bother fixing the warnings |
| 18:30.20 | JeffM2501 | when will they learn that a double != a float |
| 18:32.02 | ToughShooter | What's a float? Is it neither single or double? Is there a datatype real available? I'm just asking out of curiousity |
| 18:32.17 | horizstar | double ~= float |
| 18:32.18 | horizstar | :D |
| 18:32.28 | JeffM2501 | floats are 32 bit |
| 18:32.31 | JeffM2501 | doubles are 64 |
| 18:32.39 | JeffM2501 | asigning a double to a float can lose data |
| 18:32.47 | JeffM2501 | hence the warning |
| 18:32.51 | ToughShooter | so a double == single? |
| 18:32.53 | JeffM2501 | like asigning a long to a short |
| 18:32.54 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:32.57 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 18:32.59 | JeffM2501 | float == single |
| 18:33.03 | ToughShooter | err, single |
| 18:33.04 | JeffM2501 | double == double |
| 18:33.25 | JeffM2501 | a double is a 2x wide floating point type |
| 18:33.31 | ToughShooter | I think that typo was freud-related |
| 18:33.39 | JeffM2501 | SportChick, gimme your e-mail |
| 18:34.36 | ToughShooter | is a float defined as 1 bit digit for +,-, then 4 bits exponent and then 9 bit mantissa? |
| 18:34.57 | SportChick | sportchick@kirkanddonna.com |
| 18:34.59 | JeffM2501 | dono |
| 18:35.11 | Tupone | ToughShooter: the 14 bit? |
| 18:35.13 | JeffM2501 | never needed to get into the guts of the floating point methods |
| 18:35.28 | Tupone | what are the other 18 for? |
| 18:35.45 | ToughShooter | Tupone: In university profs said it would be a floating point |
| 18:35.56 | Tupone | 14 bit? |
| 18:36.15 | ToughShooter | Yes :/ |
| 18:36.18 | bryjen | two 7-bit bytes? |
| 18:36.23 | JeffM2501 | ToughShooter, there are a couple difrent formats for floats IIRC |
| 18:36.42 | Chestal | bzflag assumes IEEE flaot (more or less) |
| 18:36.47 | menotume | exponent only goes -8 to 7 ? |
| 18:36.59 | Chestal | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_754 |
| 18:37.14 | JeffM2501 | SportChick, I sent you a new bzflag.ext |
| 18:37.17 | JeffM2501 | exe |
| 18:37.18 | JeffM2501 | unzip it |
| 18:37.19 | Tupone | the format is normally : most significant bit is sign, then come exponent biased , then mantissa, normalized |
| 18:37.21 | ToughShooter | +- is 0 and 1, then exponent that has to be subracted with 8 and then mantissa with has seperator defined by exponent |
| 18:37.33 | Chestal | 1,8,23 for float |
| 18:37.39 | JeffM2501 | and replace put it in the version that DTR sent you, replacing his exe |
| 18:37.39 | Chestal | 1,11,52 for double |
| 18:37.49 | SportChick | JeffM2501: ok |
| 18:37.50 | Tupone | normally the 1st bit of mantissa is removed, cause is alway one |
| 18:38.40 | menotume | TS: exponent is signed also |
| 18:39.08 | Tupone | normalizing mantissa means converting the number between 0 and 0.499999999999999 |
| 18:39.19 | ToughShooter | What's the definition of signed? I know how it is inside resource files because I wrote a resource editor but not sure how it is in general |
| 18:39.35 | menotume | +/- :) |
| 18:39.42 | Tupone | I guess wikipedia is better then me at explaining |
| 18:39.59 | menotume | in general terms - forget what any professor has ever tuaght you |
| 18:40.03 | jpa- | Tupone: humm.. 0.49999...? |
| 18:40.18 | Tupone | or from 0.50000000 to 0.999999999999999 |
| 18:40.36 | Tupone | think those as bit |
| 18:40.44 | ToughShooter | Hmm, I better stick with my profs definition until exams |
| 18:40.46 | Tupone | 0.100000000000 to 0.111111111111111111 |
| 18:41.07 | jpa- | ah, yes, so it is 2^exp not 10^exp? |
| 18:41.11 | Tupone | yeah |
| 18:41.18 | _Manu_ | it's binary.. |
| 18:42.10 | SportChick | JeffM2501: I'm getting an error trying to unzip it |
| 18:42.29 | jpa- | _Manu_: obvious now, m * 10^exp is just more familiar to me :) |
| 18:43.10 | Chestal | we could write a small test programm for SportChick, which loops for a whiel and compares timer values returned by PerformanceCOunter and timeGetTime() (and also print PerformanceFrequency) |
| 18:43.19 | Chestal | we = some Windows guy :-) |
| 18:43.23 | menotume | yep |
| 18:43.31 | _Manu_ | jpa-, on/off 1/0 two stages :) base 10 is for humans.. because 10 fingers ;-p |
| 18:43.32 | menotume | test proggies are good |
| 18:43.37 | menotume | take out the variables |
| 18:43.55 | Tupone | if the mantissa is not within those limits, just moltiply it by 2 and remove 1 to exponent |
| 18:44.03 | Chestal | maybe run so long that you can actually measure the time with a stop watch, too |
| 18:44.07 | Tupone | that is the rule to normalize |
| 18:44.17 | jpa- | _Manu_: so if i cut 8 of my fingers of i'll be a better computer user? ,) |
| 18:44.37 | _Manu_ | jpa-, probably... o_P |
| 18:44.40 | Tupone | jpa-: 9 finger |
| 18:44.55 | Tupone | you should use just one |
| 18:44.59 | jpa- | eh, true |
| 18:45.02 | _Manu_ | yes.. base 2.. only one finger :) |
| 18:45.07 | _Manu_ | finger up or down |
| 18:45.15 | Tupone | not the middle one :) |
| 18:45.18 | jpa- | so why do we need 10 for base 10? :) |
| 18:45.23 | _Manu_ | Tupone, lol |
| 18:45.44 | _Manu_ | because the 0 |
| 18:45.54 | jpa- | hum.. |
| 18:46.11 | Tupone | what is? base 4? |
| 18:46.43 | jpa- | Tupone: binary, try it on your fingers :P |
| 18:47.03 | *** join/#bzflag rooter (~rooter@webguy.cc.westga.edu) |
| 18:47.10 | Tupone | I wonder 3 and 2 binary what they mean ... |
| 18:47.23 | Chestal | must be qubits |
| 18:47.26 | rooter | anybody interested in a league match 3vs3 or 2vs2? |
| 18:47.31 | jpa- | bah, ah, i'm bad at this :) |
| 18:47.38 | rooter | hello all btw :) |
| 18:47.43 | Chestal | hi rooter |
| 18:47.48 | _Manu_ | jpa-, you forgot how to play ;) |
| 18:47.50 | jpa- | 132 in decimal, convert to binary |
| 18:47.58 | jpa- | _Manu_: i never knew :) |
| 18:47.59 | bryjen | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:48.15 | Tupone | ok ok |
| 18:48.45 | jpa- | bryjen: good, now use your fingers and a mirror |
| 18:49.32 | bryjen | 5-bit bytes... stranger and stranger |
| 18:49.49 | rooter | league matches seem few and far between these days |
| 18:50.03 | Chestal | they are |
| 18:50.04 | jpa- | actually.. i think 5bit groups would be called words to exclude them from bytes |
| 18:50.34 | SportChick | JeffM2501: I can't unzip the file - it says it isn't a valid archive |
| 18:50.42 | *** join/#bzflag User164 (~User@p54877B0D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:50.42 | ToughShooter | Anyone tried out this yet? http://www.bordergatewayprotocol.net/~jon/humor/images/EthernetKiller.jpg/EthernetKiller.jpg |
| 18:50.48 | jpa- | SportChick: the file is a .zip right? :) |
| 18:50.52 | SportChick | yes |
| 18:51.03 | SportChick | but winzip can't open it |
| 18:51.52 | jpa- | i could try if i can get it open.. |
| 18:51.56 | jpa- | might be a version issue |
| 18:51.58 | jpa- | jpa@kapsi.fi |
| 18:52.55 | SportChick | jpa-: I forwarded the email |
| 18:53.02 | jpa- | ok |
| 18:53.22 | SportChick | jpa-: if you can open it, is there somewhere you can put it up so I can pull it down? |
| 18:54.11 | jpa- | yup |
| 18:54.17 | jpa- | got the mail now, testing.. |
| 18:54.51 | rooter | oh well... you guys have a great weekend |
| 18:55.17 | jpa- | hmm, doesn't work |
| 18:55.44 | jpa- | unzip says it is not complete archive.. JeffM2501 shall send it again :) |
| 18:56.30 | SportChick | yes, at least it wasn't just me being dumb - thanks for trying it jpa |
| 18:56.43 | jpa- | ToughShooter: http://www.kapsi.fi/~jpa/stuff/other/bzflag.zip if you want to try :P |
| 18:56.46 | ToughShooter | Expander usually ignores suffix |
| 18:56.51 | jpa- | SportChick: :) |
| 18:57.13 | jpa- | SportChick: or then we are both dumb.. or you also failed forwarding the email correctly ,) |
| 18:57.40 | ToughShooter | Yup, it's incomplete |
| 19:01.27 | *** join/#bzflag Teppic (~Teppic@cpc1-cbly2-5-0-cust239.glfd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 19:05.37 | menotume | mailbox size limit / truncated ? |
| 19:06.59 | jpa- | menotume: might be.. but i'd think it to give some error message |
| 19:07.07 | menotume | it should |
| 19:07.16 | menotume | should just refuse it |
| 19:07.21 | jpa- | btw, <3<3<3 |
| 19:07.27 | menotume | <3 :) |
| 19:08.02 | menotume | awwww, no index in stuff/pics :( |
| 19:08.14 | jpa- | baha :) |
| 19:08.21 | jpa- | good reason for it :P |
| 19:08.24 | menotume | hehe |
| 19:08.32 | menotume | g2g anyways - bb 2nite |
| 19:08.40 | jpa- | and it is pix anyway :) |
| 19:08.49 | menotume | ahhh, so it is |
| 19:09.08 | menotume | and, there IS an ndex, just blank |
| 19:09.16 | jpa- | yup |
| 19:09.42 | jpa- | most of the pictures are just some circuits etc. |
| 19:09.52 | menotume | i see |
| 19:10.43 | menotume | jpa- is probably look at access_log |
| 19:10.54 | menotume | lookING |
| 19:11.05 | jpa- | actually no |
| 19:11.15 | jpa- | my ISP doesn't provide it to users |
| 19:11.24 | menotume | ahh |
| 19:11.41 | menotume | cu <3 |
| 19:11.47 | jpa- | cu :) |
| 19:12.10 | jpa- | (than god he has to go.. eventually would have guessed some directory names :) |
| 19:12.33 | menotume | configure your gallery !! |
| 19:13.38 | jpa- | i have a gallery? |
| 19:13.58 | jpa- | phew, i should clean my public_html sometime :) |
| 19:13.58 | menotume | ahhh, breadboard cicuits |
| 19:14.01 | menotume | opps, i'm not here |
| 19:14.51 | menotume | you look dangerous with that soldering oron ! |
| 19:15.05 | jpa- | awwwwwwwww |
| 19:15.10 | jpa- | shouldn't have said :) |
| 19:16.36 | jpa- | well menotume is so nice he could not tease me about anything he finds :) |
| 19:16.56 | menotume | what's to tease ? |
| 19:17.28 | menotume | haha, jpa is a hardware genius, ha ha |
| 19:17.35 | jpa- | :E |
| 19:18.41 | jpa- | that device you see there, video of it being ready: http://www.scene.org/file.php?file=/parties/2004/assembly04/short_film/vilkutin-final6-combined_mpg.zip&fileinfo |
| 19:19.11 | menotume | i really g2g out - i'll check it later |
| 19:19.16 | menotume | nbye (for real) |
| 19:19.18 | jpa- | ok <3 |
| 19:21.48 | *** join/#bzflag orchid (orchid@orchid.user) |
| 19:21.54 | jpa- | hi orchid |
| 19:22.31 | orchid | hi |
| 19:23.21 | SportChick | heya orchid |
| 19:23.30 | orchid | hi SportChick |
| 19:24.25 | orchid | SportChick: any progress? |
| 19:24.55 | jpa- | she got a zip-file from jeff that just won't uncompress :) |
| 19:25.31 | orchid | hmm |
| 19:25.47 | orchid | rooter: find anyone? |
| 19:27.27 | SportChick | anyone here an admin on hepcat? there's a revolt brewing |
| 19:28.49 | ToughShooter | PING Birdie |
| 19:36.15 | ToughShooter | Bye Sporty |
| 19:40.09 | *** join/#bzflag doughecka_ (~Doug@adsl-78-217-174.sdf.bellsouth.net) |
| 19:42.04 | *** join/#bzflag Grumbler (~Grumbler@grumbler.bronze.supporter.pdpc) |
| 19:44.47 | Birdie | pong..but to late |
| 19:44.51 | Birdie | sorry sportchick |
| 19:44.57 | jpa- | hi Birdie |
| 19:45.16 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (~CannonBal@cpc3-stme1-5-0-cust91.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 19:46.54 | Birdie | hey |
| 19:46.56 | Birdie | jpa- |
| 19:47.00 | CBG | hi :) |
| 19:47.08 | CBG | aww. nvm. lol |
| 19:47.27 | jpa- | poor CBG.. no-one likes him |
| 19:49.52 | *** join/#bzflag linuxclub (~me_@ppp-217-133-1-186.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 19:50.10 | JeffM2501 | it would not unzip? |
| 19:50.14 | JeffM2501 | and what did it say was missing? |
| 19:50.50 | linuxclub | jpa- did test too |
| 19:51.15 | JeffM2501 | was a DLL missing? |
| 19:51.18 | JeffM2501 | like libcurl? |
| 19:51.30 | linuxclub | bad zip |
| 19:51.39 | JeffM2501 | wierd |
| 19:51.43 | JeffM2501 | normal winzip zip |
| 19:51.49 | JeffM2501 | maybe it got eaten in the email |
| 19:51.55 | SportChick | JeffM2501: all it says is: "Cannot open file: does not appear to be a valid archive. if you downloaded this file,t ry downloading the file again. |
| 19:52.02 | SportChick | I did try to d/l again, but same result |
| 19:52.08 | JeffM2501 | then it got eaten |
| 19:52.09 | JeffM2501 | 1 sec |
| 19:52.21 | SportChick | the one I got was 727 kb |
| 19:52.34 | JeffM2501 | mine is 708k |
| 19:53.07 | JeffM2501 | http://myth.gibbscam.com/temp/bzflag.exe |
| 19:57.00 | SportChick | JeffM2501: when I try and open it (I saved it in place of the one dtr gave me yesterday, the screen goes black for a sec like it's going to open and then it reverts to previous state (this window) |
| 19:57.14 | JeffM2501 | wierd |
| 19:58.10 | JeffM2501 | let me find my libcurl |
| 19:59.30 | *** join/#bzflag linuxclub (~me_@ppp-217-133-1-186.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 20:00.22 | Grumbler | you trying to install trojans again jeff...... :) |
| 20:04.28 | linuxclub | works? doesn't work? I wanna know |
| 20:08.06 | *** join/#bzflag Blue_Eyes (~Blue_Eyes@host200-152.pool62211.interbusiness.it) |
| 20:09.12 | *** join/#bzflag brad2901|away (brad2901@ACCB0F43.ipt.aol.com) |
| 20:11.09 | *** join/#bzflag brad2901_ (brad2901@ACCB0F43.ipt.aol.com) |
| 20:11.18 | jpa- | brad2901_ <3 |
| 20:12.39 | brad2901_ | jpa- <3 :) |
| 20:17.09 | JeffM2501 | Grumbler, TOTALY |
| 20:18.48 | JeffM2501 | SportChick try this one http://myth.gibbscam.com/temp/bzflag.zip |
| 20:18.53 | JeffM2501 | just unzip it anywhere |
| 20:18.56 | JeffM2501 | it's a full dir |
| 20:18.59 | JeffM2501 | with lib curl and all |
| 20:19.07 | SportChick | will do |
| 20:21.58 | SportChick | anyone wanna come test with me? going to sp |
| 20:22.17 | JeffM2501 | does it run? |
| 20:33.34 | *** part/#bzflag Blue_Eyes (~Blue_Eyes@host200-152.pool62211.interbusiness.it) |
| 20:34.16 | *** join/#bzflag doughecka_ (~Doug@68.18.82.240) |
| 20:34.46 | *** join/#bzflag mmu_man (revol@AMontsouris-108-1-17-118.w80-15.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:35.40 | SportChick | so far so good |
| 20:35.52 | SportChick | not only does it run, but it appears that my jitter has not gone up yet |
| 20:36.10 | SportChick | gonna test for anothre 5 minutes or so, but (crossing fingers) you may have done it! :) |
| 20:36.38 | CBG | Can anyone please quickly tell me how to change the perms on a file in Terminal? |
| 20:37.13 | jpa- | chmod (u|g|o)+(r|w|x) file |
| 20:37.43 | jpa- | for example, chmod u+rw file adds read and write permissions for the owner of the file |
| 20:37.48 | CBG | Which of the options do I use to make it so I have Full perms? |
| 20:38.01 | jpa- | you or everyone? |
| 20:38.08 | CBG | Just me. :) |
| 20:38.16 | jpa- | chmod 700 file |
| 20:38.24 | CBG | Ok. Thanks. :D |
| 20:39.23 | *** join/#bzflag Privia (~Privia@c-24-60-204-79.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 20:40.05 | CBG | Gah, Won't work... :( |
| 20:41.17 | CBG | If I update my bzflag version from 2.0.0 to 2.0.2, will it edit any of the contents? |
| 20:41.37 | jpa- | huh= |
| 20:41.42 | JeffM2501 | SportChick, it dosn't have a realy VALID fix |
| 20:41.45 | JeffM2501 | it's just a hack |
| 20:42.17 | CBG | jpa-: I have map and conf files in BZFlag2.0.0.app/Contents/MacOS/ |
| 20:42.17 | JeffM2501 | but it will confirm that the QPC stuff is the problem |
| 20:42.28 | JeffM2501 | It means that DTR will have to fix it on monday |
| 20:42.32 | CBG | If I download 2.0.2, what will happen to the map and conf files? |
| 20:42.50 | JeffM2501 | they will stay in that app |
| 20:43.04 | JeffM2501 | since your new one will be BZFlag2.0.2.app/whatever |
| 20:43.10 | CBG | Ok. Thanks. |
| 20:43.22 | JeffM2501 | so if you throw away the old .app the stuff that is in it will go with it |
| 20:43.29 | JeffM2501 | aka, move them first |
| 20:43.45 | CBG | Yep. Got it. Cheers, both. |
| 20:44.12 | CBG | aka?? Surely you mean ie. ? :p |
| 20:45.51 | JeffM2501 | no I was saying the statement could allso be expressed (or known as ) "move them first" :) |
| 20:46.18 | CBG | Ahh. Ok. :) |
| 20:46.43 | *** join/#bzflag jolie (~sasha@p54A74BBE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:46.49 | jolie | hola |
| 20:46.53 | jpa- | lala |
| 20:46.59 | jolie | hey you |
| 20:47.04 | jolie | i need some sarcasm |
| 20:47.53 | trepan | well isn't that just the wittiest thing i've heard all day... |
| 20:48.02 | jpa- | i think you need brains to make your own sarcasm :) |
| 20:48.09 | JeffM2501 | lookat me I'm whinning for sarcasm |
| 20:48.14 | JeffM2501 | booo hoooooo! |
| 20:48.18 | jolie | well.. thxs i need it |
| 20:48.44 | jolie | i think you got it wrong, hehe |
| 20:48.56 | jolie | but well i ask for it, just in da wrong way heh |
| 20:50.16 | CBG | Just out of interest, when people donate, the money doesn't go towards fags, booze or porn, right? |
| 20:50.35 | jpa- | of course it does ,) |
| 20:50.42 | jolie | ..>_< no it goes to homeless, childcare and medicine for the poor |
| 20:50.57 | jpa- | jolie: ..poor bzflag devs you mean :) |
| 20:51.18 | jolie | plus the huge netwrok developers and all their families |
| 20:51.24 | CBG | But seriously, what does it pay for? Their(your) time? |
| 20:51.56 | jpa- | their time i think.. and their cola |
| 20:52.33 | *** part/#bzflag jolie (~sasha@p54A74BBE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:52.47 | CBG | sf.net takes 5% if you donate through them... Is there any other way to donate? |
| 20:53.14 | jpa- | i think sf.net is worth it |
| 20:54.32 | CBG | Ok... I'll thunk about it! |
| 20:54.34 | SportChick | ~jeffm2501++ |
| 20:54.38 | SportChick | ~dtremenak++ |
| 20:54.49 | SportChick | ~jpa-++ |
| 20:54.54 | CBG | ~jpa+++ |
| 20:55.00 | SportChick | JeffM2501: you found it! it works great! |
| 20:55.00 | CBG | ~jpa-+++ |
| 20:55.02 | jpa- | ~karma |
| 20:55.02 | ibot | jpa- has karma of 3 |
| 20:55.06 | SportChick | ~jeffm2501++ |
| 20:55.08 | SportChick | ~dtremenak++ |
| 20:55.14 | jpa- | ew don't make me nice :/ |
| 20:55.17 | SportChick | ~jeffm2501++ |
| 20:55.20 | jpa- | ~SportChick++ |
| 20:55.25 | *** join/#bzflag Sgeo (~Sgeo@ool-182e9882.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 20:55.34 | SportChick | jpa - give the karma to jeff! they fixed my jitter!!! |
| 20:55.43 | SportChick | ~jeffm2501++ |
| 20:55.46 | jpa- | ~JeffM2501++ |
| 20:55.46 | SportChick | ~dtremenak++ |
| 20:55.52 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: SportChick looked fine on SP. She said she had some negative effects on her display though, I'm guessing because of the lower precision timers being used all over the place. |
| 20:55.56 | CBG | ~jeffm2501+++++ |
| 20:56.06 | CBG | ~dtremenak+++++ |
| 20:57.26 | CBG | ~jpa-+++++ |
| 20:57.39 | CBG | ~dtremenak |
| 20:57.41 | ibot | There are 10 kinds of people: those who know binary, and those who don't. |
| 20:57.50 | CBG | ~jpa- |
| 20:58.04 | CBG | ~JeffM2501 |
| 20:58.13 | jpa- | #botpark |
| 20:58.44 | CBG | Is the ibot at botpark identical to this one? |
| 20:58.57 | jpa- | yup |
| 20:59.06 | jpa- | while it has different name i remember.. |
| 20:59.15 | jpa- | but same process |
| 20:59.21 | CBG | Same info? |
| 20:59.26 | jpa- | yes |
| 21:03.50 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, probably |
| 21:03.57 | JeffM2501 | but that does mean that it probably is QPC |
| 21:04.10 | JeffM2501 | it was just a quick test to narrow it down |
| 21:05.02 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 21:07.54 | jpa- | gnight peopple |
| 21:08.57 | brad2901 | night jpa- :) |
| 21:09.04 | jpa- | :) |
| 21:09.36 | CBG | cu |
| 21:19.24 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (~CannonBal@cpc3-stme1-5-0-cust91.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 21:21.02 | CBG | I have here, 2 computers on the same LAN. One is running bzfs, bzadmin and bzflag all on the same server fine. |
| 21:21.29 | CBG | But I cannot connect to local host on the other computer aswell as the first... |
| 21:23.38 | CBG | Any ideas? |
| 21:25.06 | brad2901 | your trying to connect to 'localhost' from another computer?!? |
| 21:25.56 | CBG | Yes, |
| 21:26.03 | JeffM2501 | you can't use the word localhost |
| 21:26.07 | JeffM2501 | you have to use that comptuers IP |
| 21:26.10 | brad2901 | how is that supposed to wkr? |
| 21:26.16 | CBG | I ahve tried both ways |
| 21:26.16 | JeffM2501 | localhost means "THIS COMPUTER" |
| 21:26.33 | JeffM2501 | do you have the firewalls turned on? |
| 21:26.37 | CBG | I ahve tried with the other comps IP... |
| 21:26.41 | brad2901 | try connecting to the name of the comp |
| 21:26.50 | JeffM2501 | what is the error you get? |
| 21:26.57 | CBG | One sec |
| 21:28.15 | CBG | the error is just "Error connecting to server" (using the IP)... |
| 21:28.32 | JeffM2501 | are there personal firewalls involved on any of the systems? |
| 21:28.37 | JeffM2501 | and what IP are you puting in? |
| 21:28.43 | JeffM2501 | the lan IP or the WAN IP? |
| 21:28.57 | CBG | LAN |
| 21:29.25 | CBG | I don't think there would be a firewall problem, I can connect to the HD of one computer from the other wirelessly... |
| 21:29.38 | JeffM2501 | the firewal may have the port for filesharing open |
| 21:29.42 | JeffM2501 | but not the bzflag port |
| 21:30.14 | JeffM2501 | they both macs? |
| 21:30.14 | CBG | yes. |
| 21:30.14 | CBG | Ill look. |
| 21:30.16 | JeffM2501 | check the networking section |
| 21:30.16 | JeffM2501 | there is a firewall |
| 21:30.18 | CBG | Am |
| 21:31.25 | CBG | FileSharing ON, Firewall OFF. |
| 21:31.32 | JeffM2501 | wierd then |
| 21:31.40 | JeffM2501 | one woudl think it should work fine |
| 21:32.30 | CBG | Yep... |
| 21:33.52 | CBG | I cant connect from this computer at all... Even if im not running bzflag in localhost on the other. |
| 21:34.30 | CBG | ~bzfquery cbg.kicks-ass.org |
| 21:34.31 | CBG | \ |
| 21:34.43 | CBG | *sigh* |
| 21:35.42 | CBG | ~bzfquery 81.103.45.91 |
| 21:36.18 | CBG | bzfs is running fine... so why cant ibot connect? |
| 21:36.43 | *** join/#bzflag BenUrban (~benurban@pcp07709741pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net) |
| 21:37.05 | CBG | I had my server going perfectly on the other comp previously... What might be different about the other computer? |
| 21:38.36 | CBG | No firewall... Port on router is still open... |
| 21:39.50 | JeffM2501 | wrong IP, bad config, no UDP |
| 21:39.52 | JeffM2501 | mac wierdness |
| 21:40.16 | CBG | i'm getting the ip from the server list. |
| 21:40.35 | JeffM2501 | that would be your WAN IP |
| 21:40.36 | CBG | I just tried with the identical config from my other comp |
| 21:40.38 | JeffM2501 | not your LAN ip |
| 21:40.40 | CBG | No no! |
| 21:40.51 | CBG | Its my local. trust me. |
| 21:41.12 | JeffM2501 | why would the list server know your local IP |
| 21:41.15 | JeffM2501 | that makes no sense |
| 21:41.20 | JeffM2501 | what IP are you using? |
| 21:41.27 | CBG | Other people see the publiaddr, but if your on the lan, the pubblcaddr is not there, only the local IP is. |
| 21:41.38 | JeffM2501 | that is not the list server then |
| 21:41.38 | CBG | jeffM: I ahve no idea... But thats how it works. |
| 21:41.42 | JeffM2501 | that is the LAN discovery |
| 21:41.49 | JeffM2501 | nothing to do with list server |
| 21:41.51 | CBG | Who cares... It has worked fine before. |
| 21:42.00 | JeffM2501 | well it's not now |
| 21:42.04 | JeffM2501 | that is the reason to care |
| 21:42.06 | JeffM2501 | something is difrent |
| 21:42.10 | JeffM2501 | what did you change from before? |
| 21:42.28 | JeffM2501 | normaly computers don't just stop working, unless something changed |
| 21:42.38 | BenUrban | you mean *nix computers don't |
| 21:42.53 | JeffM2501 | I mean all comptuers |
| 21:42.54 | BenUrban | of sturdy contrsuction |
| 21:43.00 | JeffM2501 | something has to change |
| 21:43.01 | BenUrban | *constrction |
| 21:43.05 | JeffM2501 | wether it be the OS eating itself |
| 21:43.06 | BenUrban | ack |
| 21:43.12 | CBG | The only difference is that bzfs is running on another comp. |
| 21:43.25 | JeffM2501 | ok then what is difrent about that computer? |
| 21:43.26 | BenUrban | that's a very big difference |
| 21:43.35 | JeffM2501 | is it an exact clone of the first one? |
| 21:43.42 | BenUrban | if you change from local hosting to lan hosting.... |
| 21:43.42 | CBG | Its an iMac G4 not an iBook G4. |
| 21:43.45 | JeffM2501 | does it have the same sets of iPs and sme ports open |
| 21:44.11 | JeffM2501 | same versions of software? |
| 21:44.11 | JeffM2501 | same config? |
| 21:44.11 | CBG | Map or client config? |
| 21:44.11 | CBG | Wait. Both are same. lol |
| 21:44.15 | JeffM2501 | I would think that it would have a diferent IP on your lan would it not? |
| 21:44.18 | BenUrban | computer config |
| 21:44.30 | BenUrban | i wold hope so |
| 21:44.46 | CBG | The IPs are like: xxx.xxxx.xxx.2 and xxx.xxx.xxx.3 |
| 21:44.50 | JeffM2501 | ok |
| 21:45.01 | JeffM2501 | then did you change your router to route the BZ port from 2 to 3? |
| 21:45.19 | CBG | I never had to do anything like that before. |
| 21:45.27 | CBG | Before I just opened 5154 on the router. |
| 21:45.45 | JeffM2501 | did you have to tell it where topen it to? |
| 21:45.47 | BenUrban | your router doesn't do nat? |
| 21:45.57 | JeffM2501 | what is your lan IP? |
| 21:45.59 | CBG | All I remember doing is saying "Open 5154"... |
| 21:46.04 | JeffM2501 | 192.168.0.2? |
| 21:46.06 | CBG | which comp? |
| 21:46.09 | JeffM2501 | any |
| 21:46.14 | JeffM2501 | do they start with 192? |
| 21:46.17 | CBG | yes |
| 21:46.22 | JeffM2501 | ok then your on nat |
| 21:46.28 | CBG | 192.168.11.X |
| 21:46.33 | BenUrban | yeah, that's nat |
| 21:46.40 | BenUrban | you gotta change your router config |
| 21:46.41 | JeffM2501 | when you "said open 5154" you had to tell it where to open it TO |
| 21:46.53 | CBG | I did? lol |
| 21:46.58 | CBG | Okay. Ill take a look |
| 21:46.58 | JeffM2501 | your router had the old server's LAN IP in there, now it needs the new server |
| 21:47.12 | JeffM2501 | how can you say you didn't you don't even remember what you did? |
| 21:47.37 | CBG | because I dont remember. |
| 21:47.45 | CBG | I ahve other stuff like EXAMS on my mind. |
| 21:48.08 | CBG | and now i cant remember the darn router account details Argh |
| 21:48.13 | BenUrban | lol |
| 21:48.26 | CBG | :( |
| 21:50.17 | JeffM2501 | then why waste time seting up servers when you have exams? |
| 21:50.37 | BenUrban | addiciton of course |
| 21:50.38 | JeffM2501 | when you can't dedicate cycles to it |
| 21:52.18 | CBG | Because I wan't planning on wasting time... |
| 21:52.18 | CBG | and BenUrbans right... |
| 21:53.27 | CBG | How doi you set the port in the conf file? |
| 21:53.47 | CBG | -p PORT ? |
| 21:54.01 | JeffM2501 | jup |
| 21:54.05 | CBG | ty |
| 21:54.05 | JeffM2501 | you using a non standard port? |
| 21:54.26 | CBG | I set 5155 to the comp... |
| 21:54.31 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 21:54.36 | JeffM2501 | also change your publicaddr |
| 21:54.37 | CBG | So that 5154 will still work on the other |
| 21:54.53 | CBG | to server:port ? |
| 21:55.03 | JeffM2501 | ja |
| 21:55.23 | CBG | ~bzfquery cbg.kicks-ass.org |
| 21:55.30 | CBG | oops |
| 21:55.37 | CBG | ~bzfquery cbg.kicks-ass.org:5155 |
| 21:57.17 | CBG | ~bzfquery 192.168.11.3:5155 |
| 21:57.49 | BenUrban | well DH |
| 21:57.51 | CBG | ~bzfquery 81.103.45.91:5155 |
| 21:57.53 | BenUrban | *DUH |
| 21:57.54 | BenUrban | lol |
| 21:58.09 | CBG | :( |
| 21:58.14 | JeffM2501 | I'm sure it wasn't the DNS lookup that was the problem |
| 21:58.24 | JeffM2501 | did you open 5155 to your desktop mac? |
| 21:58.26 | JeffM2501 | on the router? |
| 21:58.29 | CBG | Yes. |
| 21:58.44 | JeffM2501 | did you put in the other mac's IP? |
| 21:59.07 | CBG | I put in The imacs... |
| 21:59.31 | JeffM2501 | one would think it would work then if it was set up all correctly |
| 21:59.36 | CBG | yes.... |
| 21:59.44 | CBG | clearly its not :( |
| 21:59.55 | JeffM2501 | clearly |
| 22:00.03 | BenUrban | did you manually open the port in your mac firewall? |
| 22:00.08 | CBG | bzadmin can connect (also on thne imac) |
| 22:00.12 | CBG | Ben: yes... |
| 22:00.17 | JeffM2501 | 1) route isn't set, 2) firewall, 3) server isn't set to listen on 5155 |
| 22:00.20 | BenUrban | which port? |
| 22:00.20 | JeffM2501 | it's one of those 3 |
| 22:00.32 | BenUrban | did you open 5154 or 5155? |
| 22:00.34 | CBG | 5155 |
| 22:00.45 | CBG | 5155 to imac, 5154 to ibook. |
| 22:00.53 | BenUrban | you're sure? |
| 22:01.06 | BenUrban | does bzflag use tcp or udp or both? |
| 22:01.11 | BenUrban | thanks ibot |
| 22:01.17 | BenUrban | very helpful lol |
| 22:01.25 | CBG | Udp... ? |
| 22:03.10 | CBG | Jeff... ? |
| 22:03.18 | CBG | Tell me bz doesnt use tcp :( |
| 22:03.42 | BenUrban | if it does, there's a firewall blocking me from reaching it |
| 22:04.01 | CBG | I think I only opened 5155 UDP... |
| 22:04.30 | BenUrban | oh |
| 22:04.37 | CBG | Ill open tcp too... |
| 22:06.36 | CBG | Try again... :) |
| 22:07.16 | BenUrban | better |
| 22:07.20 | BenUrban | now it's blocking it |
| 22:07.23 | BenUrban | rather |
| 22:07.24 | BenUrban | closed |
| 22:07.26 | BenUrban | hehe |
| 22:07.32 | CBG | wha? |
| 22:07.36 | BenUrban | the port is closed |
| 22:07.38 | BenUrban | :P |
| 22:07.44 | CBG | I JUST OPENED IT |
| 22:07.46 | BenUrban | or rather |
| 22:07.47 | CBG | argh! |
| 22:07.49 | BenUrban | there's nothing listening |
| 22:08.01 | BenUrban | Trying 81.103.45.91... |
| 22:08.01 | BenUrban | telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused |
| 22:09.18 | blast007 | 5155/tcp closed unknown |
| 22:09.18 | blast007 | 5155/udp open unknown |
| 22:09.57 | CBG | I just blooming opened it! |
| 22:10.01 | CBG | I did it right now!!! |
| 22:10.11 | blast007 | still shows closed |
| 22:10.20 | CBG | 4 Minutes ago! ARGH! |
| 22:10.49 | CBG | ~bzfquery cbg.kicks-ass.org:5155 |
| 22:12.33 | BenUrban | gtg |
| 23:34.42 | *** join/#bzflag Noodleman (~tuckerm@12-210-73-82.client.insightBB.com) |
| 23:53.19 | *** join/#bzflag wegstar (~YCC@adsl-67-121-188-165.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 23:55.43 | wegstar | I have to type uickly |
| 23:55.46 | wegstar | oops |
| 23:55.50 | wegstar | wrong channel |
