irclog2html for #bzflag on 20050114

`00:00.09`	`Legolas`	`i tried to make one didnt work`
`00:00.10`	`JeffM2501`	`then add one :-P`
`00:00.15`	`Legolas`	`i tried to make one didnt work`
`00:00.22`	`Legolas`	`:-PP`
`00:00.24`	`JeffM2501`	`what does "didn't work"`
`00:00.29`	`JeffM2501`	`look I'm trying to help you`
`00:00.34`	`JeffM2501`	`but fine, go read the man page`
`00:00.39`	`JeffM2501`	`and look at the samples`
`00:00.48`	`Legolas`	`i am thankful of your help`
`00:01.15`	`Tupone`	`isEmpty ?`
`00:01.23`	`DTRemenak`	`that might do it`
`00:01.27`	`*** join/#bzflag Privia (~Privia@h000d93444438.ne.client2.attbi.com)`
`00:01.36`	`Legolas`	`when i added the defualt group it didnt work`
`00:03.40`	`Grumbler`	`you will probably have to add requireidentify`
`00:05.34`	`Grumbler`	`useless`
`00:06.03`	`Legolas`	`what are the groups in version 1.11.36?`
`00:06.30`	`DTRemenak`	`yup, that fixed`
`00:06.34`	`DTRemenak`	`~tupone++`
`00:06.38`	`Legolas`	`?`
`00:06.47`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/src/common/StateDatabase.cxx: test for emptiness before eval'ing`
`00:07.36`	`Tupone`	`I've done nothing`
`00:07.55`	`DTRemenak`	`you helped a lot :)`
`00:09.42`	`amathis`	`ugh`
`00:09.46`	`amathis`	`the nvidia drivers are installed..`
`00:09.50`	`amathis`	`but bzflag is uber laggy.`
`00:10.18`	`DTRemenak`	`amathis, when you started x, did you get the nvidia splash screen?`
`00:10.59`	`amathis`	`DTRemenak: of course`
`00:11.03`	`DTRemenak`	`ok :)`
`00:11.05`	`amathis`	`I have installed nvidia drivers so many times..`
`00:11.08`	`DTRemenak`	`heh :)`
`00:11.10`	`amathis`	`splash comes up..`
`00:11.17`	`DTRemenak`	`just checking the obvious first :)`
`00:11.21`	`amathis`	`Enemy Territry && bzflag are LAGGY`
`00:11.25`	`amathis`	`like the drivers aren't right`
`00:11.32`	`amathis`	`I compiled kernel with nvidia..`
`00:11.36`	`amathis`	`and I installed nvidia drivers`
`00:13.07`	`DTRemenak`	`you have agpgart right? didn't accidentally turn that off in the kernel?`
`00:14.52`	`newbie__dont`	`amathis, please cat /proc/driver/nvidia/agp/status`
`00:19.01`	`amathis`	`root@corinth amathis # /proc/driver/nvidia/agp/status`
`00:19.01`	`amathis`	`bash: /proc/driver/nvidia/agp/status: Permission denied`
`00:19.06`	`amathis`	`o.o`
`00:20.04`	`DTRemenak`	`you forgot the "cat" part :)`
`00:20.20`	`amathis`	`ugh`
`00:20.53`	`amathis`	`Status: Enabled`
`00:20.53`	`amathis`	`Driver: AGPGART`
`00:20.53`	`amathis`	`AGP Rate: 4x`
`00:20.53`	`amathis`	`Fast Writes: Disabled`
`00:20.53`	`amathis`	`SBA: Disabled`
`00:21.19`	`DTRemenak`	`that looks good at least`
`00:23.10`	`amathis`	`ugh.`
`00:23.33`	`redsoxfan90`	`wats the code for the flag wings ?`
`00:24.09`	`JeffM2501`	`man bzfs`
`00:24.21`	`blast007`	`think bzfs -help shows them too`
`00:24.39`	`DTRemenak`	`WG if you're lazy, which you prolly are.`
`00:26.03`	`redsoxfan90`	`lol`
`00:26.22`	`DTRemenak`	`:)`
`00:26.32`	`JeffM2501`	`your lazyness is funny?`
`00:26.42`	`redsoxfan90`	`yes!`
`00:27.15`	`redsoxfan90`	`WG[40]?`
`00:27.36`	`blast007`	`WG{40}`
`00:27.51`	`redsoxfan90`	`thanks`
`00:28.59`	`redsoxfan90`	`bye all`
`00:29.05`	`blast007`	`cya`
`00:32.20`	`newbie__dont`	`amathis, one more obvious thing: check your processor usage, maybe sth is eating it up`
`00:35.43`	`amathis`	`newbie__dont: I just realized I was compiling 4 apps.`
`00:35.44`	`amathis`	`:D`
`00:35.46`	`*** join/#bzflag Legolas (~Legolas@69.106.132.154)`
`00:35.47`	`amathis`	`that is why :)`
`00:35.50`	`Legolas`	`hi guys`
`00:35.56`	`wegstar_away`	`hi`
`00:36.39`	`Legolas`	`is there a site i van visit that will tell me how to get a REQUIREIDENTIFY permission on the Defualt group?`
`00:36.56`	`Legolas`	`i tried almost everythinag`
`00:37.04`	`JeffM2501`	`except puting it in the default grou`
`00:37.05`	`JeffM2501`	`p`
`00:37.12`	`Legolas`	`lol i did that`
`00:37.19`	`JeffM2501`	`and what error did you get?`
`00:37.24`	`Legolas`	`... i think`
`00:37.36`	`JeffM2501`	`what does your default group look like?`
`00:37.49`	`JeffM2501`	`and are you sure the default software even does what you want it too`
`00:37.55`	`newbie__dont`	`amathis, we all have our segfaults :)`
`00:37.59`	`Legolas`	`here wait a second`
`00:38.08`	`JeffM2501`	`IIRC requireID just means you have to ID if the name is allready registered`
`00:38.14`	`Legolas`	`DEFAULT: ACTIONMESSAGE FLAGHISTORY DATE IDLESTATS LAGSTATS PRIVATEMESSAGE REQUIREIDENTIFY REPORT`
`00:38.17`	`JeffM2501`	`it still lets unreged names work`
`00:38.18`	`amathis`	`newbie__dont: I am not stupid, I just forgot I was compiling apache2 php and mysql on another desktop`
`00:38.21`	`amathis`	`newbie__dont: :)`
`00:38.24`	`Legolas`	`is that correct`
`00:38.32`	`JeffM2501`	`that will give those premisions`
`00:38.45`	`JeffM2501`	`to that group`
`00:38.48`	`JeffM2501`	`what do you want to happen?`
`00:39.05`	`Legolas`	`I want people to register before they play`
`00:39.07`	`JeffM2501`	`do you want me to be kicked if I login as legolas and don't ID?`
`00:39.28`	`JeffM2501`	`don't think the base software does that`
`00:39.28`	`Legolas`	`yes`
`00:39.31`	`newbie__dont`	`amathis, np, i had the sam problem with lag in bz and running amule`
`00:39.41`	`JeffM2501`	`but can I still play as jeffm2501 if I don't register it, and it's open?`
`00:39.51`	`*** join/#bzflag sgk284 (~stevek@AC85239F.ipt.aol.com)`
`00:40.16`	`Legolas`	`no i want it so you have to register`
`00:40.26`	`JeffM2501`	`I don't think the base software does that`
`00:40.30`	`orange`	`REGISTERED: REQUIREIDENTIFY`
`00:40.31`	`Legolas`	`it must`
`00:40.38`	`orange`	`that will force callsigns that are registered to identify`
`00:40.44`	`Grumbler`	`the old stuff used to......but i suspect the Nidhoggr will be going down the same setup trial`
`00:40.46`	`orange`	`but will allow unregistered callsigns to play`
`00:40.48`	`Legolas`	`ok`
`00:40.49`	`JeffM2501`	`orange, yeah he dosnt' want that`
`00:40.56`	`JeffM2501`	`Legolas, that isnt' what you want`
`00:40.59`	`JeffM2501`	`let lets unreg played`
`00:41.07`	`Legolas`	`i know`
`00:41.09`	`JeffM2501`	`the reg only servers are moded I think`
`00:41.16`	`Legolas`	`ok`
`00:41.16`	`JeffM2501`	`or maybe it was a cli`
`00:41.20`	`Grumbler`	`orange that no longer seems to work`
`00:41.29`	`orange`	`hmmm, I thought I had it set up so that all would have to identify once`
`00:41.42`	`orange`	`but I didn't save that setup`
`00:41.51`	`Grumbler`	`i tried it on mine.......it allowed me in`
`00:41.55`	`orchid`	`clear`
`00:42.07`	`Grumbler`	`everybody down!`
`00:42.08`	`learner`	`jifl, heh -- mac builds aren't holding it up, and making the build itself isn't the problem`
`00:42.20`	`orange`	`Grumbler: you mean in the new versions?`
`00:42.42`	`Legolas`	`ok thanks guys`
`00:43.18`	`orange`	`I thought putting REQUIREIDENTIFY in DEFAULT would do it, but he says he tried that... odd`
`00:43.25`	`JeffM2501`	`it won't`
`00:43.28`	`orange`	`(where it = require all users to identify)`
`00:43.34`	`Legolas`	`yeah it didnt work`
`00:43.38`	`JeffM2501`	`that perm is "odd"`
`00:43.42`	`JeffM2501`	`it was ether a mod`
`00:43.46`	`JeffM2501`	`or a cli`
`00:43.49`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm looking now`
`00:45.03`	`Legolas`	`hehe`
`00:45.10`	`JeffM2501`	`what ever floats your boat sparky`
`00:45.17`	`Legolas`	`lol`
`00:49.53`	`JeffM2501`	`what's the spawn message?`
`00:51.12`	`JeffM2501`	`oh they just jacked up the boolean test`
`00:51.17`	`JeffM2501`	`stoopid`
`00:51.39`	`JeffM2501`	`it shoudlt' be done with a perm anyway`
`00:53.42`	`*** join/#bzflag orchid (orchid@orchid.user)`
`00:54.28`	`amathis`	`Hola orchid`
`00:54.37`	`orchid`	`hi`
`00:56.28`	`JeffM2501`	`DTRemenak, vc71 dosn't build anymore`
`00:56.56`	`DTRemenak`	`JeffM2501, doesn't surprise me overmuch`
`00:57.00`	`DTRemenak`	`I'm not in windows right now`
`00:57.04`	`DTRemenak`	`haven't been for a day or so`
`00:57.23`	`JeffM2501`	`c:\Documents and Settings\JeffM.GIBBS\Desktop\bzflag\src\common\bzfio.cxx(26) : error C3861: 'vsnprintf': identifier not found, even with argument-dependent lookup`
`00:57.30`	`JeffM2501`	`same for strncasecmp`
`00:57.53`	`DTRemenak`	`add a HAVE__VSNPRINT (double underscore in there) to config.cfg`
`00:57.59`	`DTRemenak`	`same for HAVE__STRICMP`
`00:58.07`	`JeffM2501`	`you mean config.h?`
`00:58.18`	`JeffM2501`	`no tha'ts the problem I don't have it`
`00:58.23`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah, config.h`
`00:58.28`	`DTRemenak`	`you do have _vsnprintf`
`00:58.31`	`DTRemenak`	`just not vsnprintf`
`00:58.44`	`DTRemenak`	`unless they broke backwards compatibility`
`00:59.00`	`JeffM2501`	`I see it now`
`00:59.28`	`JeffM2501`	`no`
`00:59.29`	`JeffM2501`	`no I don't`
`00:59.32`	`JeffM2501`	`it's set`
`00:59.36`	`JeffM2501`	`yet still dosn't work`
`00:59.42`	`DTRemenak`	`then you're missing a .h somewhere`
`00:59.49`	`JeffM2501`	`fresh cvs`
`00:59.57`	`DTRemenak`	`I mean, something's not included that should be`
`01:00.13`	`JeffM2501`	`or common is done after something`
`01:00.14`	`DTRemenak`	`do a symbol lookup on _vsnprintf`
`01:00.22`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah, or common is the wrong place`
`01:00.35`	`JeffM2501`	`_CRTIMP int __cdecl _vsnprintf(char , size_t, const char , va_list);`
`01:00.40`	`JeffM2501`	`in STDIO.H`
`01:00.52`	`DTRemenak`	`what file are you having the error in?`
`01:00.55`	`*** join/#bzflag blast007_ (xl-110@dialup-4.159.8.87.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net)`
`01:01.01`	`JeffM2501`	`154 of them`
`01:01.29`	`JeffM2501`	`worldfilelocation.cxx`
`01:01.33`	`JeffM2501`	`is the first`
`01:01.48`	`Tupone`	`I moved common.h up for all the file that broke my compiler`
`01:01.54`	`DTRemenak`	`heh`
`01:01.56`	`JeffM2501`	`common.h is first`
`01:02.01`	`DTRemenak`	`want me to reboot and fix it?`
`01:02.01`	`JeffM2501`	`in this file`
`01:02.09`	`JeffM2501`	`I can't test my patch`
`01:02.35`	`JeffM2501`	`well can't test it till I get home anyway`
`01:02.46`	`JeffM2501`	`but one would think it would have to be fixed before release`
`01:02.54`	`*** join/#bzflag blast007__ (~blast007@dialup-4.159.8.87.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net)`
`01:03.02`	`*** join/#bzflag SilverFox (SilverFox@68-116-47-254.or.charter.com)`
`01:03.40`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah, it will. I just have to reboot and fix it.`
`01:10.35`	`*** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@DHCP-170-110.caltech.edu)`
`01:11.37`	`JeffM2501`	`DTRemenak, I have to go do some errands, patch 1102049 does what legolas and I think a number of others want to do. It hasn't been tested, I will test when I get home.`
`01:11.50`	`DTRemenak`	`ok`
`01:15.09`	`JeffM2501`	`the patch is more friendly then the perm too, it dosnt' kick, it just dosn't let you spawn`
`01:17.07`	`DTRemenak`	`does it at least tell you why you can't spawn?`
`01:17.12`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`01:17.14`	`DTRemenak`	`ok :)`
`01:17.16`	`JeffM2501`	`and says what to do`
`01:17.19`	`JeffM2501`	`to reg and id`
`01:17.20`	`DTRemenak`	`cool`
`01:17.26`	`JeffM2501`	`even did the manpage`
`01:18.16`	`JeffM2501`	`to do it as a perm, what you want is to add a Spawn perm`
`01:18.25`	`JeffM2501`	`and to require ID, you move spawn from default to reg`
`01:19.25`	`DTRemenak`	`ah, ok`
`01:19.29`	`DTRemenak`	`does the patch do all that?`
`01:20.25`	`JeffM2501`	`10 lines`
`01:20.33`	`JeffM2501`	`well the patch dosn't do the perm`
`01:20.45`	`JeffM2501`	`it makes it a command line option`
`01:20.47`	`JeffM2501`	`a lot easyer`
`01:20.53`	`JeffM2501`	`I was saying IF you want it as a perm`
`01:21.00`	`JeffM2501`	`then the current implementation is stupid`
`01:21.01`	`DTRemenak`	`ah`
`01:21.09`	`JeffM2501`	`and shoudl be redone as a spawn perm`
`01:21.18`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah, it's kind of backwards`
`01:21.21`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`01:21.25`	`JeffM2501`	`so this is simple`
`01:21.28`	`JeffM2501`	`and a small change`
`01:21.33`	`JeffM2501`	`yet will make many happy`
`01:25.45`	`*** join/#bzflag Fuddl (~fuddl@tittchen.saustall.busn.org)`
`01:27.37`	`*** join/#bzflag yoyox (yoyox@koty.org)`
`01:28.14`	`*** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@2002:45a6:8672:0:0:0:0:1)`
`01:33.10`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/ (3 files in 2 dirs): fix vc71 build. remove lame HAVE_VSNPRINTF check because everyone has vsnprintf from common.h.`
`01:37.50`	`*** part/#bzflag Tupone (Tupone@84.222.138.243)`
`01:42.02`	`creeperz`	`how do i get CVS?`
`01:42.18`	`creeperz`	`hmm`
`01:42.28`	`creeperz`	`might help if it was installed properly first, huh?`
`01:46.07`	`SilverFox`	`2.0 due out today?`
`01:46.57`	`purple_cow`	`maybe`
`01:48.05`	`Grumbler`	`hmm, it worked`
`01:49.20`	`*** part/#bzflag triclops (~caleb@c211-31-49-112.rivrw7.nsw.optusnet.com.au)`
`01:49.30`	`*** join/#bzflag triclops (~caleb@c211-31-49-112.rivrw7.nsw.optusnet.com.au)`
`01:49.43`	`*** join/#bzflag creeperz (~creeperz@70-57-235-119.sxfl.qwest.net)`
`01:55.12`	`elspuddy`	`question can be a map rotation in bzflag ?`
`01:55.53`	`blast007`	`you need a script to cycle the maps, and then you need to set a time limit in the game`
`01:56.15`	`blast007`	`bzfs doesn't yet have built-in map rotation`
`01:56.40`	`elspuddy`	`is there any premade scripts out there to do this ?`
`01:59.17`	`blast007`	`you basically just do a batch file or a shell script and put each bzfs command on each line`
`01:59.34`	`*** join/#bzflag MeBigFatGuy (dave@balt-209-150-116-166.dynamic-dial.qis.net)`
`01:59.45`	`blast007`	`a batch file is a text file that ends with .bat`
`01:59.57`	`blast007`	`one command per line`
`02:12.13`	`*** join/#bzflag ep (~ep@ip68-97-124-161.ok.ok.cox.net)`
`02:13.48`	`*** join/#bzflag Legoguy (~Lego\|Desk@adsl-67-36-182-162.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net)`
`02:13.57`	`*** join/#bzflag Quol (~quolsimo@modemcable103.129-200-24.mc.videotron.ca)`
`02:16.32`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~JeffM@Patlabor221.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`02:17.04`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar (~wegstar@adsl-67-122-114-253.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`02:17.18`	`JeffM2501`	`get it fixed DTRemenak ?`
`02:17.22`	`DTRemenak`	`yup`
`02:17.33`	`JeffM2501`	`tho just realised it'll take me 5 hours to get the code`
`02:18.56`	`DTRemenak`	`up to 5 hours, not necesarily 5 at a minimum`
`02:18.59`	`elspuddy`	`can i use the mutile -d switchs in the bzfs conf file ?`
`02:19.10`	`DTRemenak`	`yes`
`02:19.27`	`DTRemenak`	`assuming that was supposed to say "multiple" not "mutile"`
`02:19.33`	`elspuddy`	`yep`
`02:20.18`	`*** join/#bzflag dax (~me@pD9536EEC.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`02:20.25`	`elspuddy`	`just so i cna get the useful (and some useless) messages from the server.`
`02:20.59`	`DTRemenak`	`yup. if you want my advice, don't use the fourth one, just three at most :)`
`02:21.19`	`DTRemenak`	`the fourth one dumps a TON of net packet information that you don't want`
`02:21.33`	`JeffM2501`	`4 can actualy slow down the server`
`02:21.46`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah, 'cause it has to write all that stuff out`
`02:23.19`	`*** join/#bzflag Aribeth (~Aribeth@dsl081-067-057.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`02:23.35`	`JeffM2501`	`nope hasn't updated yet`
`02:23.41`	`DTRemenak`	`three gives about 1mb a week on my servers`
`02:23.42`	`JeffM2501`	`you want to test the patch?`
`02:24.06`	`TimRiker`	`JeffM2501: testing now.`
`02:24.21`	`TimRiker`	`cleaned up some typos, and formatting, added a bit to the message.`
`02:24.22`	`JeffM2501`	`I couldn't even see if it compiled`
`02:24.30`	`JeffM2501`	`since vc7 didn't build`
`02:24.47`	`JeffM2501`	`then I needed steak, rice, beer, and trashbags`
`02:24.51`	`DTRemenak`	`'twas slightly busted.`
`02:24.53`	`JeffM2501`	`sadly I failed in that endevor`
`02:25.02`	`DTRemenak`	`you at least got the beer, right?`
`02:25.03`	`TimRiker`	`JeffM2501: we can fix your 5 hour lag anytime you want.`
`02:25.12`	`JeffM2501`	`I know`
`02:25.21`	`TimRiker`	`~pester JeffM2501`
`02:25.23`	`ibot`	`JeffM2501: Are we there yet? .. Are we there yet? .. Are we there yet?`
`02:25.37`	`JeffM2501`	`hey I know where I am, do you know where you are ?:)`
`02:25.40`	`TimRiker`	`not quite the right pester. ah well.`
`02:26.17`	`*** join/#bzflag lan56 (lan56@h-68-164-235-26.lsanca54.dynamic.covad.net)`
`02:26.23`	`JeffM2501`	`ugg milk and chicken don't mix that well`
`02:27.59`	`JeffM2501`	`ooo gotta go tell the tivo to get battlestar galatica`
`02:34.15`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03timriker * 10bzflag/ (6 files in 2 dirs): add JeffM2501's -requireidentify with updates`
`02:36.04`	`JeffM2501`	`huzah`
`02:37.14`	`JeffM2501`	`the existing thing should probably be moved into something like that too, since it's not REALY a perm, it dosnt' make sense to apply to any other group, you'd just want something like -autoghost`
`02:37.30`	`JeffM2501`	`since it's across the board`
`02:38.01`	`JeffM2501`	`I have a can full of pennys so I'm just flinging them out 0.02$ at a time :)`
`02:40.34`	`TimRiker`	`there could be servers that require membership in other groups (ie clans) to join.`
`02:41.03`	`TimRiker`	`so in that sense a perm makes sense.`
`02:41.20`	`DTRemenak`	`TimRiker: a "spawn" permission would make more sense though`
`02:41.28`	`JeffM2501`	`you'd want to protect just that group?`
`02:41.28`	`DTRemenak`	`as JeffM2501 suggested earlier`
`02:41.31`	`JeffM2501`	`and not the others?`
`02:41.44`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah if you wanted to controll spwans then have a spawn perm`
`02:41.46`	`DTRemenak`	`so you could set just one group or two to be able to spawn`
`02:41.46`	`JeffM2501`	`and move it around`
`02:41.59`	`TimRiker`	`give the "SPAWN" permission to DEFAULT by default =) and remove it and give it to REGISTERED if you want to restrict the server.`
`02:42.10`	`JeffM2501`	`on the name protection ( cus that's all the existing perm is ) it shoudl be called that`
`02:42.20`	`JeffM2501`	`yes, that's how I'd do requireID as a perm`
`02:42.23`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah, if we're going for permissions SPAWN makes more sense`
`02:42.24`	`JeffM2501`	`not how it is done now`
`02:42.36`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm not sure what the current perm is trying to do`
`02:42.37`	`JeffM2501`	`in the end`
`02:42.45`	`JeffM2501`	`just protect regstered names?`
`02:43.03`	`DTRemenak`	`the current one seems like a poorly thought out hack to me, actually :)`
`02:43.12`	`JeffM2501`	`a yup`
`02:43.15`	`TimRiker`	`it's supposed to protect locally registered names iirc.`
`02:43.16`	`JeffM2501`	`who did it?`
`02:43.30`	`JeffM2501`	`then I would think you would want to do that for all names`
`02:43.35`	`JeffM2501`	`regardless of group`
`02:43.44`	`JeffM2501`	`and controll spawn on a perm basis`
`02:44.06`	`DTRemenak`	`TimRiker: but the only group it makes sense for is DEFAULT`
`02:44.10`	`JeffM2501`	`dosn't realy make sense to just protect admins`
`02:44.14`	`JeffM2501`	`why not protect all`
`02:44.19`	`JeffM2501`	`still dosn't let unreg play`
`02:44.25`	`JeffM2501`	`they just have to pick a new name`
`02:44.45`	`DTRemenak`	`heh`
`02:44.58`	`JeffM2501`	`I found em under the couch`
`02:46.22`	`JeffM2501`	`mm chicken and vodka... that's better`
`02:47.22`	`TimRiker`	`DTRemenak: why just DEFAULT?`
`02:47.46`	`JeffM2501`	`why tie spawn to some group other then registered?`
`02:47.47`	`TimRiker`	`DTRemenak: what If I want to run a server for my buddies in TimRikerTest group?`
`02:47.57`	`JeffM2501`	`true`
`02:48.01`	`JeffM2501`	`then anyone could reg`
`02:48.05`	`JeffM2501`	`but only your people could play`
`02:48.08`	`JeffM2501`	`what would be COOL`
`02:48.15`	`JeffM2501`	`is if you could set perms in realtime`
`02:48.19`	`JeffM2501`	`then for a leauge match`
`02:48.28`	`JeffM2501`	`set the perms for just the 2 temas`
`02:48.34`	`JeffM2501`	`so only they can play`
`02:48.38`	`JeffM2501`	`noone else can spawn`
`02:48.50`	`TimRiker`	`should work now I would think.`
`02:48.57`	`TimRiker`	`well, with a SPAWN perm.`
`02:49.06`	`JeffM2501`	`don't think you can set perms at runtime`
`02:49.32`	`JeffM2501`	`not that I remember what I implemented`
`02:49.33`	`*** join/#bzflag PointBlank (PointBlank@dialup-4.240.105.249.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net)`
`02:50.19`	`TimRiker`	`hmm. ah yeah. you can add folks to a group on the fly, but not add perms to a group.`
`02:52.24`	`JeffM2501`	`what would be even MORE cool is to add permision sets that could be set and unset`
`02:52.33`	`JeffM2501`	`so you could go into "leauge mode" with a single command`
`03:10.28`	`DTRemenak`	`TimRiker: I meant that the REQUIREIDENTIFY is only useful for DEFAULT. SPAWN would be useful for any/all groups`
`03:11.20`	`DTRemenak`	`to be a member of any other group you'd need to be registered and identified anyway`
`03:11.41`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03timriker * 10bzflag/man/bzfs.6s: formatting`
`03:11.52`	`TimRiker`	`DTRemenak: agreed`
`03:12.02`	`elspuddy`	`is there any why of stoping people from useing the auto pilot on the server ?`
`03:12.20`	`elspuddy`	`why - way`
`03:12.33`	`DTRemenak`	`elspuddy: -disableAutoPilot should do it, iirc`
`03:12.41`	`DTRemenak`	`but it's not foolproof, easy to hack around`
`03:12.42`	`TimRiker`	`elspuddy: iirc there is a mode that denies bots/autopilot, but that's easy to avoid by hacking the client.`
`03:13.25`	`blast007`	`-disableBots: disallow clients from using autopilot or robots`
`03:14.07`	`brlcad`	`* unmodified clients, at least`
`03:14.18`	`blast007`	`:)`
`03:15.28`	`elspuddy`	`hmmm`
`03:15.29`	`elspuddy`	`bad argument "-disableAutoPilot"`
`03:15.46`	`JeffM2501`	`its' disableBots`
`03:15.51`	`elspuddy`	`kk`
`03:15.53`	`JeffM2501`	`like the blast said`
`03:16.29`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar (~wegstar@adsl-67-121-170-85.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`03:18.13`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`pure unadulterated speciesism`
`03:18.23`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`shouldn't be tolerated, dang nab it!`
`03:18.38`	`elspuddy`	`bad argument "-disableBots"`
`03:18.40`	`JeffM2501`	`are the horses geting upity again?`
`03:18.43`	`brlcad`	`MeBigFatGuy: you prefer adulterated? :)`
`03:18.53`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`pickin' on poor bots`
`03:18.54`	`Grumbler`	`put the beer down and step away from the monitor mac`
`03:19.05`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`bots are people too, after all`
`03:19.17`	`JeffM2501`	`then they are the same species as us`
`03:19.27`	`JeffM2501`	`so it's just a regular baning`
`03:19.33`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`where's the -disablePeeps arg?`
`03:19.44`	`brlcad`	`hehehe`
`03:19.45`	`JeffM2501`	`-disableMeatSacks`
`03:20.18`	`JeffM2501`	`http://www.terrybisson.com/meat.html`
`03:21.06`	`Grumbler`	`xenosaga.....`
`03:21.57`	`*** part/#bzflag wegstar (~wegstar@adsl-67-121-170-85.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`03:22.29`	`creeperz`	`mm`
`03:22.31`	`creeperz`	`meat`
`03:23.31`	`blast007`	`elspuddy: what version of bzflag?`
`03:23.54`	`elspuddy`	`[elspuddy@localhost bin]$ ./bzfs -conf /home/elspuddy/tp/bzfs.conf`
`03:23.54`	`elspuddy`	`bad argument "-prohibitbots"`
`03:23.54`	`elspuddy`	`BZFlag server 1.10.6.20040923-RELEASE-linux-gnu (protocol 1910) http://BZFlag.org/`
`03:23.54`	`elspuddy`	`Copyright (c) 1993 - 2004 Tim Riker`
`03:24.17`	`Grumbler`	`hey the copyright expired`
`03:24.36`	`JeffM2501`	`whoot.. coupe time!!!`
`03:24.43`	`brlcad`	`elspuddy: try ./bzfs -help`
`03:25.07`	`JeffM2501`	`tiki or european this time?`
`03:25.16`	`creeperz`	`coupe time?`
`03:25.17`	`Grumbler`	`....we dont need no water, let it burn`
`03:25.50`	`DTRemenak`	`sedan time!`
`03:26.11`	`brlcad`	`I'm an excellent driver..`
`03:26.15`	`brlcad`	`yeah..`
`03:27.28`	`TimRiker`	`uh, copyright does not expire in one year.`
`03:27.46`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm fine.... gimme the keys!!!!`
`03:28.25`	`JeffM2501`	`damn`
`03:31.03`	`elspuddy`	`nice missle`
`03:31.17`	`elspuddy`	`missile even`
`03:32.04`	`blast007`	`In 1.10.8, what is -prohibitBots supposed to do when someone turns autopilot on?`
`03:32.58`	`JeffM2501`	`destroy all humans`
`03:33.05`	`blast007`	`:)`
`03:33.15`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03timriker * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/Permissions.cxx: ws`
`03:36.19`	`*** join/#bzflag noyb (~noyb@wbar2.lax1-4-8-213-215.dsl-verizon.net)`
`03:38.33`	`noyb`	`are you guys still working on the libcurl/blocking issue?`
`03:39.11`	`JeffM2501`	`the timeout is very short now, and you can set it to be as short as you want`
`03:39.31`	`noyb`	`nice`
`03:39.47`	`JeffM2501`	`making it unblocking is probably not in the scope of day of release changes`
`03:40.57`	`noyb`	`it's been a fun ride for the last few days. Like watching the last 30 seconds of a long race, in very slooww motion.`
`03:41.02`	`*** join/#bzflag Privia (~Privia@h000d93444438.ne.client2.attbi.com)`
`03:41.45`	`TimRiker`	`if you try to enter before you get central login approved, and get denied, you can never enter.`
`03:42.02`	`creeperz`	`:-O`
`03:42.05`	`TimRiker`	`I expect the client won't send multiple enters.`
`03:42.28`	`JeffM2501`	`best to kick em then?`
`03:42.33`	`noyb`	`does this mean that all players must register to play?`
`03:42.36`	`JeffM2501`	`that does force a resend? :)`
`03:42.43`	`JeffM2501`	`it's an option noyb`
`03:42.53`	`noyb`	`thx`
`03:43.01`	`TimRiker`	`JeffM2501: for the moment, I suppose so.`
`03:43.12`	`JeffM2501`	`probably why the old one does it`
`03:43.27`	`JeffM2501`	`proper system would allow for callsign change ala /nick`
`03:43.35`	`JeffM2501`	`but that's a biger fish`
`03:43.43`	`JeffM2501`	`and I'm out of butter`
`03:44.15`	`JeffM2501`	`all I have left is "PAM"`
`03:44.22`	`noyb`	`groan...`
`03:44.36`	`JeffM2501`	`hey don't knock pam`
`03:44.39`	`JeffM2501`	`it's nonstick`
`03:44.49`	`JeffM2501`	`and can be used as a flamethrower in emergencys`
`03:45.19`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm alergic to it`
`03:45.29`	`Grumbler`	`dont forget popeye`
`03:45.55`	`JeffM2501`	`gives me gas`
`03:46.40`	`Grumbler`	`can-ola.........like a spanish-canadian`
`03:48.19`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03timriker * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/CmdLineOptions.h: old comment`
`03:48.50`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03timriker * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx: kick em so they'll MsgEnter again`
`03:50.38`	`JeffM2501`	`I must be doing good, 2 accepted patches in 24 hours`
`03:53.22`	`noyb`	`so help me understand this CIA-2 message. Does this mean if I get bzflag via CVS _after_ that message I'll get that change?`
`03:53.37`	`DTRemenak`	`provided you have dev cvs access, yes`
`03:53.46`	`noyb`	`oof`
`03:53.55`	`noyb`	`not anon?`
`03:53.55`	`DTRemenak`	`on anoncvs there's a 0 to 5 hour lag`
`03:53.55`	`Grumbler`	`if you go anon....your doomed for hours of pain`
`03:53.57`	`JeffM2501`	`if you don't it can take up to5 hours`
`03:54.07`	`DTRemenak`	`it syncs every 5 hours`
`03:54.08`	`JeffM2501`	`they only sycn dev to anon a couple times a day`
`03:54.49`	`noyb`	`so let's hear about how difficult it is to get dev cvs access...`
`03:55.16`	`Grumbler`	`you have to contribute something useful`
`03:55.16`	`JeffM2501`	`you have to ask, and generaly commit to the project`
`03:55.29`	`JeffM2501`	`since dev access = ability to change stuff`
`03:56.07`	`Grumbler`	`abuse the power and lose all.........and then the guy in black suits show up`
`03:58.01`	`creeperz`	`does anyone know who David J. Lawler?`
`03:58.08`	`*** join/#bzflag Silver1 (SilverFox@68-116-47-254.or.charter.com)`
`04:00.52`	`noyb`	`JeffM2501: when you say "commit to the project" do you mean, "submit changes" or "show some devotion to the project" ?`
`04:01.02`	`JeffM2501`	`submit changes`
`04:01.03`	`JeffM2501`	`directly`
`04:01.14`	`JeffM2501`	`that is why not everyone gets it`
`04:01.23`	`Grumbler`	`knee pads have been known to help`
`04:01.25`	`JeffM2501`	`dev access means no more patches`
`04:01.26`	`brlcad`	`modify the source code (or documentation, build files, etc)`
`04:01.39`	`brlcad`	`consistently, and usefully`
`04:01.42`	`JeffM2501`	`generaly one submits a number of pataches first`
`04:01.50`	`brlcad`	`to the point of your patches annoy those that do have access :)`
`04:02.02`	`JeffM2501`	`to show they undertand the coding rules`
`04:02.15`	`DTRemenak`	`speaking of patches: what does anyone think of http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1100328&group_id=3248&atid=303248`
`04:02.39`	`JeffM2501`	`tho techincaly I could just type "tim.. do me" and I'd have dev access`
`04:02.41`	`Grumbler`	`speaking of which......checks to see if purple_cow submitted the blender plugin`
`04:03.01`	`JeffM2501`	`does the dvr own you now brlcad ?`
`04:03.06`	`DTRemenak`	`code looks clean, I'm just wondering if we want to break protocol this close to 2.0.`
`04:03.08`	`JeffM2501`	`don't forget to get battlestar`
`04:03.09`	`brlcad`	`JeffM2501: hehehe ..`
`04:03.27`	`noyb`	`where do those patches get submitted? By the way... is this current line of Q/A in a FAQ somewhere?`
`04:03.33`	`JeffM2501`	`DTRemenak: there IS a chese hack to do that`
`04:03.44`	`JeffM2501`	`make it turn -1 into 0xFFFFFFFF`
`04:03.49`	`JeffM2501`	`and cancel on that`
`04:03.53`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah, that's cheesy though :)`
`04:03.55`	`brlcad`	`JeffM2501: I'm already sucked in with a backlog of stargates and simpsons..and soon more farscape`
`04:03.57`	`TimRiker`	`Grumbler: I would think a value of ~0 would suffice.`
`04:04.08`	`JeffM2501`	`noyb: on sf`
`04:04.09`	`brlcad`	`noyb: sf project site`
`04:04.11`	`JeffM2501`	`follow that link`
`04:04.23`	`JeffM2501`	`brlcad: GET THE BATTLESTAR!`
`04:04.36`	`brlcad`	`noyb: Q/A + bz is often a funny`
`04:04.49`	`JeffM2501`	`heh`
`04:05.08`	`DTRemenak`	`brlcad, battlestar is way higher priority than simpsons :)`
`04:05.18`	`JeffM2501`	`did you see the mini?`
`04:05.21`	`JeffM2501`	`I realy liked it`
`04:05.28`	`JeffM2501`	`good spin on space flight and battles`
`04:05.39`	`brlcad`	`has battlestar started already or about to?`
`04:05.45`	`JeffM2501`	`tomorow`
`04:05.48`	`brlcad`	`i did see the mini`
`04:05.55`	`brlcad`	`twas good, albeit short`
`04:05.56`	`JeffM2501`	`guy at our work, worked on the origonal`
`04:06.04`	`JeffM2501`	`he did all the 'computer" screens`
`04:07.12`	`DTRemenak`	`heh, it hasn't started here yet?`
`04:07.45`	`DTRemenak`	`my roommate has a friend in the uk who's been sending them to him`
`04:07.56`	`JeffM2501`	`it's tomorow for us`
`04:08.02`	`JeffM2501`	`the mini was a while ago`
`04:08.11`	`Silver1`	`battlestar galactica?`
`04:08.19`	`JeffM2501`	`yes`
`04:08.20`	`Silver1`	`that reminds me, I need to schedule that too.`
`04:08.46`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah. we've seen 10, #11 aired sunday (?) I think`
`04:09.12`	`JeffM2501`	`cool`
`04:09.33`	`Grumbler`	`it gets viewed i n the uk first`
`04:09.38`	`Grumbler`	`why?`
`04:09.49`	`JeffM2501`	`smaller market`
`04:09.53`	`JeffM2501`	`usualy a test run`
`04:09.59`	`JeffM2501`	`SF is popular there`
`04:10.06`	`JeffM2501`	`easyer to run a marketing campaign too`
`04:10.07`	`DTRemenak`	`they're really quite good`
`04:10.13`	`JeffM2501`	`basicly they beta it for us :)`
`04:10.14`	`DTRemenak`	`I was impressed`
`04:10.23`	`Grumbler`	`dang, coupling and galatica......i might move`
`04:11.20`	`JeffM2501`	`but then you also have to eat hagus`
`04:12.09`	`bryjen`	`~spell hagus`
`04:12.11`	`ibot`	`possible spellings for hagus: hags hag's haggis hugs hag us hag-us Hague's Hugues Hg's hogs Hague Magus Tagus hacks hakes harks hawks hog's`
`04:12.15`	`Grumbler`	`...i do need to lose a few pounds........and they do have good indian food`
`04:14.45`	`JeffM2501`	`hmm I still have an oustanding patch for bzflag :(`
`04:14.55`	`JeffM2501`	`682463`
`04:15.00`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`well if it's outstanding.....`
`04:15.47`	`bryjen`	`braggart`
`04:16.16`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`ooooh, the missiles :)`
`04:16.27`	`DTRemenak`	`maybe for 2.0.2 :)`
`04:16.40`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`the link seems bad`
`04:16.46`	`JeffM2501`	`probalby is`
`04:16.51`	`JeffM2501`	`it shoudl be redone anyway`
`04:16.53`	`bryjen`	`almost 2 years old`
`04:17.07`	`JeffM2501`	`wow`
`04:17.12`	`DTRemenak`	`'twould be something else to add to the effects menu :)`
`04:17.22`	`JeffM2501`	`naw just tie to experimental`
`04:17.28`	`JeffM2501`	`wonder why it was never accepted`
`04:17.41`	`DTRemenak`	`it was used in xl iirc`
`04:18.00`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`was the shiznit, dats fo shor`
`04:18.02`	`DTRemenak`	`so it's gotten plenty of testing`
`04:18.16`	`blast007`	`the 3D missile model?`
`04:18.20`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah`
`04:18.24`	`blast007`	`:)`
`04:18.30`	`bryjen`	`probly bitrotten by now`
`04:18.39`	`JeffM2501`	`ohh it won't apply`
`04:18.42`	`JeffM2501`	`for sure`
`04:18.48`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`is that like bittorrent?`
`04:18.49`	`DTRemenak`	`blast007 probably has an up to date for 1.10.x version :)`
`04:19.02`	`blast007`	`yeah, had to fix a few things for it to work in 1.10.4`
`04:19.17`	`bryjen`	`or the past tense of bit rotate`
`04:19.17`	`DTRemenak`	`still probably wouldn't apply to 2.0.`
`04:19.18`	`JeffM2501`	`I'd redo it`
`04:19.22`	`JeffM2501`	`since it's all TM now`
`04:19.26`	`DTRemenak`	`and JeffM2501 has a point`
`04:19.37`	`*** join/#bzflag qbwwdp (~lexiana@dsl081-117-104.dfw1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`04:19.44`	`qbwwdp`	`hey`
`04:19.46`	`JeffM2501`	`was there a reason it was not done?`
`04:19.49`	`JeffM2501`	`I don't recall`
`04:19.51`	`bryjen`	`you would or you will ?`
`04:19.53`	`blast007`	`there was also some bugs with it in certain texture/blending/etc settings`
`04:19.53`	`qbwwdp`	`come play on britsystems.com`
`04:19.59`	`qbwwdp`	`hurry`
`04:20.00`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`we liked boxes and pyramids, back then`
`04:20.07`	`DTRemenak`	`hehe`
`04:20.13`	`JeffM2501`	`if it was to be done again, I'd redo it, had I my druthers`
`04:20.24`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`well hurry on up thar big fellar`
`04:20.32`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03timriker * 10bzflag/ (6 files in 3 dirs): sort, -requireidentify, copyright in man pages`
`04:20.43`	`JeffM2501`	`was I off by 1?`
`04:20.52`	`JeffM2501`	`me fail english... that unpossbile!!!!`
`04:21.47`	`JeffM2501`	`MeBigFatGuy: I can't find my druthers`
`04:21.47`	`bryjen`	`druthers ... drawers ... pants? JeffM2501 has no pants?`
`04:21.47`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`i'll look, let you know`
`04:21.52`	`DTRemenak`	`JeffM2501: you left them on the desk`
`04:22.03`	`JeffM2501`	`no there is chicken on the desk`
`04:22.07`	`JeffM2501`	`and 2 empty bottles`
`04:22.11`	`Grumbler`	`is learner crawling under desks again`
`04:22.13`	`DTRemenak`	`the chicken ate your druthers?`
`04:23.09`	`bryjen`	`it must almost be Friday`
`04:23.23`	`Grumbler`	`...and monday is a holiday`
`04:23.44`	`JeffM2501`	`no the mac is off`
`04:23.44`	`bryjen`	`huh?`
`04:23.49`	`JeffM2501`	`he won't come over unless the mac is on`
`04:24.05`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`JeffM2501, pick up a mac mini yet?`
`04:24.11`	`JeffM2501`	`not out yet`
`04:24.13`	`JeffM2501`	`22nd`
`04:25.35`	`amathis`	`there is a holiday monday?`
`04:25.46`	`JeffM2501`	`martin luther king`
`04:25.55`	`amathis`	`haha.`
`04:26.04`	`JeffM2501`	`didn't you studdy your black history boy?`
`04:26.08`	`amathis`	`I am surprised I forgot that one.`
`04:26.16`	`amathis`	`JeffM2501: no, it is force fed.`
`04:26.45`	`Grumbler`	`ouch, july`
`04:26.56`	`amathis`	`city of hypocrisy`
`04:27.03`	`amathis`	`~spell hypocrisy`
`04:27.03`	`ibot`	`'hypocrisy' may be spelled correctly`
`04:27.18`	`bryjen`	`Welcome to Earth, the planet of ...`
`04:27.25`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`it's ironic that a guy who was all about making sure folks would be treated fairly about being able to work, is celebrated by not`
`04:27.32`	`Grumbler`	`hippo-chrissy a large blonde from a 70s sitcom`
`04:27.46`	`JeffM2501`	`thighmaster helped her get better`
`04:28.13`	`bryjen`	`MeBigFatGuy: then there's Labor Day, celebrating the American work ethic by....`
`04:28.20`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`yes, that too`
`04:28.25`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`we seem to have a pattern`
`04:28.35`	`JeffM2501`	`and christmas`
`04:29.06`	`Grumbler`	`dont forget the day we vote........we have to work so we cant vote`
`04:29.26`	`amathis`	`heh, gotta click the 'red' 'blue' or 'green' button.`
`04:29.32`	`amathis`	`do they even need names there?`
`04:29.33`	`bryjen`	`Washington's birthday, when you do not have to tell a lie about not wanting to come in to work ;)`
`04:31.00`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`actually its a national law that employers are required to give you off two hours to vote`
`04:31.07`	`bryjen`	`http://www.opm.gov/fedhol/2005.asp`
`04:31.37`	`Grumbler`	`yeah, but they dont mandate paying you for that time......at least i dont think........`
`04:31.55`	`JeffM2501`	`hah, there ya go`
`04:31.55`	`JeffM2501`	`http://sasami.bakadigital.com/source/missiles.diff/bz/bz_cvs_missiles/`
`04:32.00`	`JeffM2501`	`patch away :)`
`04:32.37`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`just the diff file?`
`04:32.48`	`bryjen`	`any some empty dirs`
`04:32.54`	`bryjen`	`s/any/and/`
`04:33.34`	`bryjen`	`hmm`
`04:34.23`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`hmmm, attic references in diff`
`04:34.58`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`ugg, lots of fuzz`
`04:35.30`	`amathis`	`methinks it's bedtime.`
`04:35.40`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03timriker * 10bzflag/man/bzfs.6s: typo, OPTIONS`
`04:35.45`	`Grumbler`	`goodnight johnboy`
`04:35.53`	`amathis`	`Grumbler: johnboy?`
`04:35.59`	`amathis`	`what do you mean by that`
`04:36.05`	`Grumbler`	`am i really that old`
`04:36.08`	`Grumbler`	`ug`
`04:36.18`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`heh`
`04:36.35`	`amathis`	`Grumbler: I am not really up on culture or entertainment o.o`
`04:36.46`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`you woudl have to be crusty`
`04:37.10`	`amathis`	`hrm.`
`04:37.17`	`Grumbler`	`.....i still the waltons are shown in the midwest somewhere`
`04:37.24`	`amathis`	`Thanks for reminding me I need a life. :)`
`04:37.52`	`orange`	`Grumbler: I got it, anyway`
`04:38.05`	`bryjen`	`http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0068149/`
`04:38.06`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/2792/walton1.htm`
`04:49.04`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`hmm, looks like we are getting the storm that left patlabor's area now`
`04:49.51`	`orchid`	`19C today, -8C tommorow :-\`
`04:49.55`	`jpa-`	`Thumper_: i _was_ sleeping :S`
`04:50.07`	`Thumper_`	`hehe`
`04:50.10`	`Grumbler`	`ouch`
`04:50.14`	`Thumper_`	`you still want it?`
`04:50.48`	`jpa-`	`Thumper_: and _you_ should be sleeping now :)`
`04:51.14`	`Thumper_`	`not yet`
`04:51.27`	`Thumper_`	`have to update the 3 new and 9 changed olympic obstacles first`
`04:51.38`	`Thumper_`	`4 new`
`04:51.45`	`jpa-`	`growing evilness needs atleast 9 hours of sleep`
`04:53.58`	`bryjen`	`~convert 19 degrees C to degrees F`
`04:54.06`	`bryjen`	`bah`
`04:54.09`	`jpa-`	`hah :D`
`04:54.10`	`Grumbler`	`ha`
`04:54.14`	`jpa-`	`your scale is limited`
`04:54.18`	`jpa-`	`,)`
`04:54.19`	`bryjen`	`~convert 19 degC to degF`
`04:54.40`	`jpa-`	`it is thinking....`
`04:54.43`	`Thumper_`	`66F`
`04:54.59`	`bryjen`	`ibot's parsing of plain english is limited`
`04:55.25`	`Grumbler`	`66 in toronto........thats a summer heat wave`
`04:56.21`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`66F here today`
`04:56.59`	`Grumbler`	`yeah......but us on the shore actually had sunshine`
`04:57.21`	`Thumper_`	`not anymore it's not`
`04:57.46`	`Grumbler`	`yeah.......the dog is in the tub, so it must be raining hard`
`04:58.05`	`orchid`	`~factstats author`
`04:58.50`	`Thumper_`	`where I live it was +10C today and raining, now it's -2C and snowing (50F, and 29F)`
`04:58.53`	`bryjen`	`!convert -8 degC to degF`
`04:58.53`	`guu`	`bryjen: 17.6`
`04:59.07`	`bryjen`	`guu continues to kick ass`
`04:59.07`	`guu`	`Damn right I do!`
`05:00.28`	`jpa-`	`-0.4�C here now`
`05:03.34`	`orchid`	`!bzflagdonors`
`05:03.35`	`guu`	`orchid: <a href="http://sourceforge.net/users/daveturton/">daveturton</a><a href="http://sourceforge.net/help/icon_legend.php?context=site_donor&uname=daveturton&return_to=%2F"><IMG src="http://images.sourceforge.net/images/icons/sf_2.png" alt="SourceForge.net Donor" border="0" width="16" height="16"></a><a (10 more messages)`
`05:03.53`	`orchid`	`huh`
`05:04.00`	`jpa-`	`that is ugly`
`05:04.08`	`blast007`	`heh`
`05:04.18`	`jpa-`	`i need html-parser for irssi :S`
`05:05.00`	`*** join/#bzflag hw- (~hw@c-24-3-241-202.client.comcast.net)`
`05:08.41`	`TimRiker`	`ibot does not do temp conversion at present.`
`05:09.08`	`TimRiker`	`I need to hack that in sometime.`
`05:11.34`	`Grumbler`	`you might want to check it, its been idling a little rough`
`05:11.35`	`jpa-`	`hw-: well, you was quite good at idling`
`05:11.40`	`jpa-`	`until now :)`
`05:12.01`	`learner`	`TimRiker, how about a command to query arbitrary major bzfs versions (bzfquery 2.0 ducati.bzflag.org:5154`
`05:12.53`	`*** join/#bzflag hw- (~hw@c-24-3-241-202.client.comcast.net)`
`05:12.59`	`learner`	`at least the current and previous perhaps`
`05:14.05`	`jpa-`	`also, i think we should put up a server on previous version to tell people "hey, 2.0 is out" when it is out`
`05:14.25`	`jpa-`	`otherwise they just see empty serverlist and think no-one plays bzflag anymore`
`05:14.35`	`hw-`	`or they join and get refused connection`
`05:14.38`	`*** join/#bzflag Legolas (~Legolas@69.106.132.154)`
`05:14.44`	`jpa-`	`hw-: join where?`
`05:15.00`	`jpa-`	`hw-: old version serverlist does not show new servers`
`05:18.27`	`hw-`	`well when the server is updated to a new version it does not magically clear the last server clients joined`
`05:18.43`	`hw-`	`for people who like to play on the same server and dont use the list`
`05:19.24`	`sgk284`	`ping nidhoggr`
`05:19.38`	`hw-`	`sgk!`
`05:19.41`	`sgk284`	`hw-!`
`05:19.47`	`sgk284`	`hey man hows it going/`
`05:19.48`	`sgk284`	`?`
`05:20.15`	`hw-`	`wiz banned me for exercising my democratic right to start polls when people swear`
`05:20.34`	`learner`	`there is no democracy on servers`
`05:20.35`	`DTRemenak`	`you have no democratic rights`
`05:20.42`	`sgk284`	`lol`
`05:20.46`	`hw-`	`why can people start polls then`
`05:20.53`	`DTRemenak`	`for when admins aren't around`
`05:20.54`	`sgk284`	`how long wsa the ban for?`
`05:20.58`	`sgk284`	`was*`
`05:21.01`	`hw-`	`how would I know how long the ban was for`
`05:21.07`	`DTRemenak`	`and it's the admin's choice to let you poll`
`05:21.21`	`sgk284`	`yea hw, if an admin is there let them handle it not you, but if you'd like i'll go talk to him about it`
`05:21.27`	`sgk284`	`was it just a 24 hour ban?`
`05:21.31`	`hw-`	`the person was cursing repeatedly`
`05:21.44`	`sgk284`	`your a regular so i cant see you being permabanned`
`05:21.44`	`hw-`	`which is much worse than me starting a poll :p`
`05:21.59`	`hw-`	`I have been oppressed by this hypocracy before`
`05:22.08`	`learner`	`hw-, so don't play there`
`05:22.14`	`hw-`	`obviously I am not playing there`
`05:22.16`	`sgk284`	`i'd have to ask wiz his oppinion first to get a fair view :)`
`05:22.27`	`sgk284`	`hw-, do you know how long the ban is for?`
`05:22.34`	`hw-`	`seriously sgk, how would I know`
`05:22.45`	`hw-`	`is there like some magical ban query`
`05:22.51`	`learner`	`hw-, and whether swearing is against any server rules is also a good question`
`05:22.58`	`sgk284`	`i dunno, doesnt bzflag tell you when your banned? i've never been banned, i have not a clue`
`05:23.02`	`hw-`	`swearing is definitely against the server rules thank you`
`05:23.07`	`sgk284`	`:)`
`05:23.27`	`hw-`	`umm it just said banned: repeatedly starting polls when asked not to`
`05:23.29`	`hw-`	`didnt say how long`
`05:23.34`	`bryjen`	`does bzfs send the ban target a message before disconnecting them?`
`05:23.35`	`learner`	`hw-, well the admins set the rules and if the admins banned you, then something is up`
`05:23.39`	`JeffM2501`	`2.0 will tell you that you've been baned when you try to log into a server that bans you`
`05:23.53`	`sgk284`	`hw, you should send your reasoning to the list (bzflag@dragon.org) then us admin will debate it and come to a conclusion`
`05:23.56`	`hw-`	`the admins should enforce the rules.`
`05:24.09`	`sgk284`	`hw, dont say that in your email...`
`05:24.12`	`hw-`	`if someone is cursing repeatedly the admins should deal with it`
`05:24.21`	`learner`	`so either the swearing was at least acceptible in this instance, or your use of the poll was frowned upon -- regardless, they don't need a reason`
`05:24.43`	`learner`	`hw-, that's your take on swearing and enforcing rules strictly -- not theirs`
`05:24.49`	`JeffM2501`	`not all servers have to be swear free`
`05:24.55`	`hw-`	`whatever learner I play there all the time I know their policy`
`05:24.55`	`learner`	`best to play on servers that jive better with you`
`05:25.03`	`hw-`	`my point is`
`05:25.12`	`hw-`	`they were more lenient with the swearer than me`
`05:25.14`	`hw-`	`for starting a poll`
`05:25.14`	`creeperz`	`lol`
`05:25.18`	`hw-`	`they asked him nicely to stop`
`05:25.21`	`hw-`	`they could have asked me nicely to stop`
`05:25.28`	`hw-`	`I play there all the time it's not like i'm trying to get banned`
`05:25.37`	`sgk284`	`hw, once again please just email the list and we'll let you know how the discussion goes and maybe wiz had his reasons`
`05:25.47`	`sgk284`	`if you'd like, i'll email them instead`
`05:26.14`	`creeperz`	`hw-: what are you banned from?`
`05:26.14`	`bryjen`	`the reason you quoted says they _did_ ask you not to poll`
`05:26.18`	`sgk284`	`hw, i'm not going to undo wiz's ban without hearing him first`
`05:26.20`	`JeffM2501`	`this channel dosn't have anything to do with servers`
`05:26.29`	`hw-`	`hey I didnt come here pleading my case... [00:19] <sgk284> hey man hows it going/`
`05:26.32`	`hw-`	`he asked so I tell`
`05:26.36`	`sgk284`	`lol true`
`05:26.59`	`creeperz`	`umm`
`05:27.01`	`sgk284`	`d`
`05:27.05`	`creeperz`	`Nidhoggr isnt comin home`
`05:27.09`	`creeperz`	`we ate him`
`05:27.11`	`creeperz`	`alive`
`05:27.12`	`sgk284`	`heh`
`05:27.20`	`hw-`	`creeperz: secretplace is the server`
`05:27.25`	`Noodleman`	`screaming makes me hungry`
`05:27.33`	`creeperz`	`eh`
`05:27.38`	`creeperz`	`why were you banned?`
`05:27.45`	`learner`	`ahh, secretplace`
`05:27.51`	`creeperz`	`hw-: get a washcloth and some glue handy`
`05:27.52`	`JeffM2501`	`maybe they felt that since you play there so much you should know better`
`05:28.07`	`sgk284`	`creeperz, please dont get him started again ;)`
`05:28.09`	`learner`	`maybe they just don't like you`
`05:28.10`	`JeffM2501`	`or an admin had a bad day`
`05:28.20`	`JeffM2501`	`learner need a mac build tested at all?`
`05:28.23`	`JeffM2501`	`or can I turn it off`
`05:28.30`	`creeperz`	`sorry, sgk284`
`05:28.31`	`learner`	`JeffM2501, .. ALMOST done!`
`05:28.37`	`JeffM2501`	`then I'll leave it on`
`05:29.00`	`learner`	`testing inclusion of libcurl in the framework now`
`05:29.05`	`learner`	`sdl is all goody now`
`05:29.09`	`JeffM2501`	`learner: do you know if they make an audio input thingy for USB?`
`05:29.15`	`JeffM2501`	`since the mini dosn't have input`
`05:29.36`	`learner`	`there are usb audio input devices`
`05:29.43`	`JeffM2501`	`ok cool`
`05:29.50`	`JeffM2501`	`well or maybe afterburner will ship`
`05:30.04`	`learner`	`you mean input for mic or output for speakers?`
`05:30.13`	`learner`	`either way.. usb for both`
`05:30.13`	`JeffM2501`	`input for a mic`
`05:30.19`	`JeffM2501`	`the mini has sound out`
`05:30.20`	`JeffM2501`	`just no in`
`05:30.44`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar (~wegstar@adsl-67-121-170-85.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`05:31.14`	`wegstar`	`There should be sound for the rain...`
`05:31.32`	`JeffM2501`	`there should be lots of things`
`05:31.40`	`wegstar`	`heh..right`
`05:31.49`	`learner`	`http://www.osxaudio.com/index.php?category=18`
`05:32.05`	`learner`	`transit, for example`
`05:32.41`	`hw-`	`have you guys considered some of the sound and texture files are unnecessarily large filesize (and length for sounds)`
`05:33.29`	`learner`	`hw-, if you shrink them without sacrificing quality, I'd be glad to update them`
`05:33.31`	`JeffM2501`	`I actualy think the textures are too small`
`05:35.05`	`hw-`	`acutally I just renamed some of the smaller files over the big ones`
`05:36.30`	`blast007`	`why would you want smaller textures? :)`
`05:36.44`	`blast007`	`unless your video card is crap...`
`05:36.54`	`JeffM2501`	`the size may make his modem cry`
`05:37.10`	`hw-`	`my video card is crap actually`
`05:37.13`	`hw-`	`but it does improve performance`
`05:37.20`	`JeffM2501`	`$30 replace it :)`
`05:37.26`	`JeffM2501`	`join us in the 21st`
`05:37.35`	`hw-`	`the *_basetop.png files are 300+k`
`05:37.43`	`JeffM2501`	`and the plan was to make a low res texture kit`
`05:37.46`	`JeffM2501`	`it jsut never got done`
`05:37.54`	`JeffM2501`	`if you want to packege one up they can put it on SF`
`05:37.57`	`JeffM2501`	`300k is nothing`
`05:37.57`	`hw-`	`I made one.. it is pretty`
`05:38.06`	`hw-`	`300k is much greater than 4k`
`05:38.08`	`JeffM2501`	`is it the same as the existing textures?`
`05:38.14`	`JeffM2501`	`yes, but 300k is a higher res`
`05:38.20`	`JeffM2501`	`and generaly looks better close up`
`05:38.24`	`JeffM2501`	`on modern cards`
`05:38.26`	`hw-`	`http://hankwilde.com/images/screenshot.jpg`
`05:38.30`	`hw-`	`look mine are sparkly close up`
`05:38.45`	`hw-`	`haha`
`05:38.51`	`hw-`	`gimme your video card`
`05:38.56`	`hw-`	`this is a stickup`
`05:39.01`	`blast007`	`man, that makes your eyes burn`
`05:39.04`	`sgk284`	`lol`
`05:39.04`	`JeffM2501`	`dude a mx is realy 30$`
`05:39.16`	`JeffM2501`	`is that from MS paint?`
`05:39.18`	`learner`	`egads..! my eyes! .. they burn!.. aiiieee..`
`05:39.20`	`wegstar`	`I don't feel so good...`
`05:39.26`	`sgk284`	`hw- you should be banned just for those textures ;)`
`05:39.30`	`blast007`	`lol`
`05:39.33`	`wegstar`	`heh`
`05:39.41`	`creeperz`	`oh wow`
`05:39.44`	`hw-`	`zapped told me I spin around much faster with them`
`05:39.46`	`creeperz`	`thats not good :-P`
`05:39.54`	`sgk284`	`lol`
`05:39.55`	`hw-`	`framerate goes up too`
`05:39.57`	`hw-`	`memory load goes down`
`05:39.59`	`JeffM2501`	`what kinda crap card do you have in that thing?`
`05:40.03`	`JeffM2501`	`intel integrated?`
`05:40.06`	`hw-`	`ati radeon 8500`
`05:40.11`	`creeperz`	`:-O`
`05:40.12`	`JeffM2501`	`that is NOT crap`
`05:40.13`	`hw-`	`it is the drivers that bzflag does not agree with`
`05:40.15`	`sgk284`	`JeffM2501, hey dont' mock it till you've tried it!`
`05:40.17`	`sgk284`	`:)`
`05:40.19`	`JeffM2501`	`run windows`
`05:40.28`	`JeffM2501`	`I have tried intel, I get to mock all I want`
`05:40.30`	`hw-`	`I do run windows... the linux drivers were much better`
`05:40.32`	`sgk284`	`lol`
`05:40.45`	`creeperz`	`JeffM2501: does that mean i can mock, as well?`
`05:40.50`	`sgk284`	`my i830 handles everything bzflag throws at it just about`
`05:40.51`	`JeffM2501`	`my 7000 runs current texturs just fine, at 60+fps`
`05:40.56`	`hw-`	`when I get gm the lag skyrockets... so I have to tweak the image files`
`05:41.01`	`JeffM2501`	`sgk284: that's NOT much`
`05:41.03`	`hw-`	`I get 90+ fps anyways`
`05:41.09`	`creeperz`	`wow`
`05:41.11`	`JeffM2501`	`then what's the point?`
`05:41.12`	`creeperz`	`thats good`
`05:41.16`	`hw-`	`the point is the memory`
`05:41.19`	`JeffM2501`	`your screen dosnt' even refresh that fast`
`05:41.21`	`blast007`	`my 8MB Savage card can get 24 FPS, although lots of them are swapped around ;)`
`05:41.30`	`JeffM2501`	`what you have like 9 megs of ram?`
`05:41.40`	`hw-`	`like I said.. its a driver problem`
`05:41.54`	`creeperz`	`you just said it was a memory problem :-/`
`05:41.54`	`JeffM2501`	`well ATI drivers do suck`
`05:42.01`	`JeffM2501`	`hardcore`
`05:42.03`	`sgk284`	`hw-, linux or windows?`
`05:42.09`	`JeffM2501`	`that is why you don't get them if you can help it`
`05:42.13`	`creeperz`	`windows`
`05:42.21`	`hw-`	`the linux drivers were awesome, the windows ones suxorz`
`05:42.39`	`JeffM2501`	`with nvidia they are all good :)`
`05:42.53`	`JeffM2501`	`what version of windows?`
`05:43.01`	`sgk284`	`yea nvidia is nice`
`05:43.10`	`hw-`	`windows 2003 server`
`05:43.17`	`sgk284`	`what?!`
`05:43.20`	`JeffM2501`	`well there is your problem`
`05:43.29`	`blast007`	`my bosses's new Radeon 9700 card in his laptop has lighting glitches in 3DMark 2k3...and my GeForce FX 5200 can do it just fine`
`05:43.34`	`hw-`	`want my ip and adminstrator login too while you're at it ?`
`05:43.45`	`JeffM2501`	`ATI has GL comptabability issues all over the place`
`05:43.46`	`sgk284`	`why the ... what the... huh? windows 2003 server? what... i'm speechless`
`05:44.06`	`JeffM2501`	`2k3 is not a bad OS`
`05:44.09`	`sgk284`	`hw- everyone here can already have your ip... the next step shouldnt be too hard ;)`
`05:44.10`	`JeffM2501`	`it's just not the best for games`
`05:44.21`	`bryjen`	`not the right market`
`05:44.23`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`05:44.24`	`sgk284`	`JeffM2501, thats what i was implying....`
`05:44.35`	`JeffM2501`	`people do what they do`
`05:44.38`	`sgk284`	`heh`
`05:44.38`	`JeffM2501`	`at least it's not mE`
`05:44.41`	`sgk284`	`lol`
`05:44.47`	`JeffM2501`	`or bob`
`05:44.48`	`creeperz`	`lol`
`05:44.53`	`blast007`	`Me would probably run the game better ;)`
`05:44.54`	`hw-`	`hey if you could... hack into my router and make it get a new ip so I can evade the ban`
`05:44.54`	`sgk284`	`yes! bob`
`05:45.11`	`sgk284`	`do you have a dynamic or static ip?`
`05:45.14`	`hw-`	`dynip`
`05:45.28`	`JeffM2501`	`hw-: so your not going to like a 800meg to 1 gig install are you?`
`05:45.29`	`sgk284`	`well if you can't figure that out yourself...`
`05:45.47`	`hw-`	`but its all the way downstairs and you guys are so excitable`
`05:46.06`	`hw-`	`jeff as long as I can download it with bit torrent... I only have 2400 baud modem`
`05:46.14`	`sgk284`	`hw- you cant most likely access the router from yuor puter, probably http://192.168.2.1 or something like that`
`05:46.24`	`hw-`	`192.168.1.1 actually`
`05:46.28`	`hw-`	`now hack the password for me`
`05:46.34`	`JeffM2501`	`actualy your on cable`
`05:46.35`	`sgk284`	`lol`
`05:46.41`	`JeffM2501`	`and it does it's own content managment`
`05:46.42`	`sgk284`	`yea you have comcast... what are you saying?`
`05:46.48`	`JeffM2501`	`it'll get the data as you need it`
`05:46.57`	`*** part/#bzflag wegstar (~wegstar@adsl-67-121-170-85.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`05:47.13`	`JeffM2501`	`so no need for a torrent`
`05:47.39`	`JeffM2501`	`auto updating too :)`
`05:47.54`	`hw-`	`hey you're the one who said 1gig install not me`
`05:47.57`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar (~wegstar@adsl-67-121-170-85.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`05:47.59`	`*** part/#bzflag wegstar (~wegstar@adsl-67-121-170-85.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`05:48.13`	`JeffM2501`	`1 gig to start`
`05:48.24`	`creeperz`	`:-O`
`05:48.31`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm sure nid will host something for it`
`05:48.39`	`creeperz`	`ok`
`05:48.42`	`JeffM2501`	`since he'd be able to admin from his cell phone`
`05:48.46`	`creeperz`	`time for the 40 OZ`
`05:48.57`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar (~wegstar@adsl-67-121-170-85.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`05:49.11`	`creeperz`	`nice an' chilled Hurricane waiting for me`
`05:49.36`	`JeffM2501`	`ya know once your old enough to drink you don't have to brag about it anymore`
`05:49.44`	`creeperz`	`i know`
`05:50.04`	`wegstar`	`.hehe`
`05:50.25`	`creeperz`	`but i do anyway`
`05:50.28`	`creeperz`	`:-D`
`05:50.30`	`JeffM2501`	`was it just me or did he seem like an ass?`
`05:50.39`	`bryjen`	`seem like?`
`05:50.42`	`wegstar`	`it was ibot...`
`05:50.52`	`wegstar`	`:)`
`05:50.55`	`JeffM2501`	`well I was being nice`
`05:50.56`	`sgk284`	`err is there a known way to bypass the bzflag filter? an admin was having a problem tonight with someone spelling out fu**`
`05:51.07`	`blast007`	`I'm still trying to figure out why he said he had a 2400 baud modem, yet he has a router :P`
`05:51.15`	`JeffM2501`	`sure as long as it dosn't hit a filter it goes thru`
`05:51.25`	`JeffM2501`	`so put a space or something and it's thru`
`05:51.32`	`JeffM2501`	`cus he was being an ass`
`05:51.46`	`sgk284`	`yea hes either clueless or jsut being annoyin`
`05:51.48`	`sgk284`	`g`
`05:51.52`	`learner`	`sgk284, not known to me.. if you have the exact string they used (usually from logs) and can reproduce it, I'll fix it`
`05:51.53`	`JeffM2501`	`no filter can get em all`
`05:52.12`	`learner`	`spaces wouldn't get it through the filter`
`05:52.15`	`sgk284`	`hw has a history of being obnoxious and condecending`
`05:52.17`	`JeffM2501`	`probably something non printable then`
`05:52.29`	`JeffM2501`	`do _ ?`
`05:52.30`	`sgk284`	`hes one of the best players i've ever seen though`
`05:52.31`	`creeperz`	`sgk284: so do i :-D`
`05:53.00`	`sgk284`	`JeffM2501, thats what i was thinking, waiting for nid though`
`05:53.05`	`learner`	`hrm.. i might have used [:space:] class .. if that's really the case, easy to fix`
`05:53.18`	`learner`	`but really need the server log of the real string`
`05:53.31`	`creeperz`	`hmm`
`05:53.34`	`creeperz`	`stale :-S`
`05:53.36`	`sgk284`	`the only thing is, arent non rintables removed from strings? i must have seen a function or code that does that about 5 different ways in various places in the code`
`05:53.36`	`JeffM2501`	`or just login and cuss up a storm :)`
`05:53.40`	`creeperz`	`drain time`
`05:53.58`	`learner`	`sgk284, supposed to be, yes`
`05:54.01`	`sgk284`	`k`
`05:54.13`	`JeffM2501`	`could have been a . too`
`05:54.29`	`JeffM2501`	`I can think of a number of ways`
`05:55.28`	`learner`	`that also would not have made it through`
`05:55.30`	`JeffM2501`	`could even mod a client to do a reverse bad word lookup and reformat those strings to have something inbetween them`
`05:55.37`	`JeffM2501`	`what's it check for?`
`05:55.40`	`JeffM2501`	`any non leter?`
`05:55.42`	`learner`	`no variations of spacing and/or punctuation will get through`
`05:55.51`	`*** join/#bzflag Guest854 (~d9ea94bf@rw08.de)`
`05:56.01`	`learner`	`it's hard to say all that it's checking really.. it's quite a bit`
`05:56.11`	`JeffM2501`	`heh`
`05:56.20`	`*** join/#bzflag hw- (~hw@c-24-3-241-202.client.comcast.net)`
`05:56.22`	`learner`	`non-printables could be a problem, don't recall if they're accounted for`
`05:56.32`	`JeffM2501`	`maybe they just put a tab or something`
`05:56.51`	`learner`	`tab is picked up by [:space:]`
`05:56.55`	`JeffM2501`	`ok`
`05:57.35`	`learner`	`it's more likely a bug where it's missing the last/first word of a certain phrase`
`05:57.38`	`bryjen`	`hard to say? some kind of secret? Or just difficult to pronounce?`
`05:57.41`	`bryjen`	`;)`
`05:58.00`	`JeffM2501`	`your human ears can not hear it`
`05:58.59`	`DTRemenak`	`btw, just to balance people saying the wordfilter misses words it should catch, I got this in my logs the other day "Matched: [74 +- 1]"`
`05:59.05`	`learner`	`bryjen, only a secret in an obfuscated regex kind of way`
`05:59.05`	`DTRemenak`	`from a lagstats display`
`05:59.08`	`learner`	`bryjen, http://bzflag.bz/cvs/src/common/WordFilter.cxx`
`05:59.10`	`hw-`	`it missed "hell"`
`05:59.20`	`DTRemenak`	`and I can't figure out for the life of me what it's supposed to be :S`
`05:59.25`	`learner`	`hw-, that's most likely not in their filter list`
`06:00.00`	`wegstar`	`which one...?`
`06:00.21`	`*** join/#bzflag bz2183 (~d3173663@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`06:00.54`	`learner`	`DTRemenak, yeah, that's an old problem .. the l33t filtering can get overly aggressive`
`06:01.05`	`learner`	`it's better than it was.. used to match strings of numbers`
`06:01.12`	`DTRemenak`	`just thought I'd throw some more fuel on the fire or whatever :)`
`06:01.18`	`DTRemenak`	`feel free to ignore me :)`
`06:01.21`	`learner`	`you can usually actually reverse-break-down the regex to find what it matched`
`06:01.49`	`bryjen`	`where they go back in time. and jack is being interrogated, they guy asks about the zat`
`06:02.09`	`learner`	`that's also a side effect of people adding words to the filter that do not belong (short words, for example)`
`06:02.25`	`wegstar`	`umm... no, havent watched SG in a year or so...`
`06:02.38`	`wegstar`	`was it the one with the council...?`
`06:03.49`	`learner`	`bryjen, you can read on some of the rules it's using in plain english here: http://bzflag.bz/cvs/misc/multilingualSwearList.txt`
`06:05.05`	`learner`	`the biggest false-positives I've seen to date are applying the english suffix/prefix rules to non-english words`
`06:06.35`	`sgk284`	`lol`
`06:07.11`	`learner`	`00:57:40: bryjen: hard to say? some kind of secret? Or just difficult to pronounce?`
`06:07.28`	`bryjen`	`learner: look closely for the <joke> tag....`
`06:07.39`	`wegstar`	`that's one long list...;)`
`06:08.18`	`bryjen`	`perhaps your irc client does not support it and silently ignored`
`06:08.20`	`bryjen`	`;)`
`06:11.21`	`bryjen`	`http://www.stargatesg1.com/home/episodes/s2.html season 2 episode 221 "1969"`
`06:12.39`	`JeffM2501`	`that was a good one`
`06:18.29`	`sgk284`	`anything i can do to help with the release?`
`06:18.37`	`hw-`	`unban me so I leave the channel alone`
`06:18.45`	`learner`	`~sgk284++`
`06:18.53`	`sgk284`	`:)`
`06:19.12`	`jpa-`	`people are getting really helpful :)`
`06:19.37`	`jpa-`	`lets delay the release for two weeks, saying every day "today" and we will have everything fixed`
`06:19.55`	`JeffM2501`	`a +q will take care of him leaving the channel allone`
`06:20.02`	`sgk284`	`heh`
`06:20.23`	`Nidhoggr`	`hallo`
`06:20.28`	*** mode/#bzflag [-b *!www-data@c-24-1-104-25.client.comcast.net] by `ls`
`06:20.32`	`learner`	`howdy Nidhoggr.. brace thyself :)`
`06:20.36`	`sgk284`	`hey nidhoggr`
`06:20.37`	`sgk284`	`run`
`06:20.38`	`Nidhoggr`	`:)`
`06:20.39`	`Nidhoggr`	`hi`
`06:20.47`	`Nidhoggr`	`hi orchid`
`06:20.49`	`JeffM2501`	`munchkins at the gates man`
`06:20.57`	`jpa-`	`hi jpa-`
`06:21.20`	`jpa-`	`hi`
`06:21.22`	`jpa-`	`eww`
`06:21.44`	`jpa-`	`i really thought that someone said "hi jpa"`
`06:21.51`	`sgk284`	`lol!`
`06:21.56`	`DTRemenak`	`hahaha`
`06:21.56`	`sgk284`	`hi jpa-!`
`06:22.02`	`DTRemenak`	`hi jpa- :)`
`06:22.02`	`sgk284`	`jpa-++`
`06:22.06`	`sgk284`	`~jpa-++`
`06:22.07`	`jpa-`	`hi sgktoodifficultnicktotype`
`06:22.14`	`sgk284`	`284?`
`06:22.14`	`DTRemenak`	`sgk<tab>`
`06:22.17`	`jpa-`	`hi DTRemenak`
`06:22.18`	`sgk284`	`or just hit tab`
`06:22.24`	`sgk284`	`DTRemenak, read my mind`
`06:22.28`	`DTRemenak`	`~gmta`
`06:22.29`	`ibot`	`well, gmta is Great Minds Think Alike`
`06:22.34`	`sgk284`	`2/8=4`
`06:22.37`	`sgk284`	`wait`
`06:22.39`	`sgk284`	`lol`
`06:22.42`	`DTRemenak`	`heh`
`06:22.42`	`sgk284`	`ignore that...`
`06:22.54`	`learner`	`hehe`
`06:22.58`	`sgk284`	`wow that was bad`
`06:23.02`	`jpa-`	`just put ^(-1) after it`
`06:23.10`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`or swap ops`
`06:23.13`	`jpa-`	`and say that you pressed enter at wrong point`
`06:23.27`	`learner`	`2\8=4`
`06:23.27`	`sgk284`	`well obviosuly i did:) my keyboard...uh stuck`
`06:23.42`	`DTRemenak`	`2 = 8 / 4`
`06:23.52`	`DTRemenak`	`I thnk that's what you meant`
`06:24.23`	`sgk284`	`DTRemenak, yes!`
`06:24.24`	`learner`	`bryjen, careful .. he might coredump on you`
`06:24.35`	`bryjen`	`eww`
`06:25.01`	`bryjen`	`dirty dirty pages`
`06:25.13`	`jpa-`	`disk or disk buffers?`
`06:25.14`	`sgk284`	`fsck the disk!`
`06:25.14`	`DTRemenak`	`orchid wins :)`
`06:25.34`	`learner`	`:)`
`06:25.43`	`jpa-`	`or maybe he went to toilet with the disk and flushed it there... :)`
`06:26.18`	`Nidhoggr`	`ok... anything else before I go to bed?`
`06:26.19`	`Nidhoggr`	`:)`
`06:26.25`	`hw-`	`unban me@`
`06:26.28`	`DTRemenak`	`don't forget to flush :)`
`06:26.29`	`Nidhoggr`	`heh.`
`06:26.43`	`learner`	`Nidhoggr, brush your teeth?`
`06:26.46`	`hw-`	`i'll join incognito so no one will know it is me`
`06:27.01`	`Nidhoggr`	`learner: will do. :)`
`06:27.07`	`jpa-`	`Nidhoggr: take knifes out of your bed first`
`06:27.27`	`DTRemenak`	`ensure that no venomous snakes are present in the gap between the sheets`
`06:27.30`	`Nidhoggr`	`we have a sign beside or toilet about putting the lid down. it totally freaks me out to see a cat drink from it. I go postal.`
`06:27.54`	`DTRemenak`	`heck, for that matter, you might want to make sure that no non-venomous snakes are between your sheets, too`
`06:27.55`	`hw-`	`flushing toilets with open lids can spray bacteria up to 25 feet`
`06:28.04`	`jpa-`	`Nidhoggr: buy superglue and a rubber band, and make auto-close system`
`06:28.05`	`DTRemenak`	`hw-: so can coughing`
`06:28.07`	`learner`	`be sure to check for ninjas behind the curtains`
`06:28.09`	`Nidhoggr`	`:)`
`06:28.41`	`bryjen`	`ninjas hiding from the monsters under the bed?`
`06:28.44`	`Nidhoggr`	`goodnight all. :) chat with ya'll tomorrow.`
`06:28.54`	`learner`	`cheers Nidhoggr`
`06:28.54`	`DTRemenak`	`g'night Nidhoggr`
`06:28.57`	`Nidhoggr`	`&`
`06:28.58`	`bryjen`	`'nite`
`06:29.03`	`creeperz`	`hm`
`06:29.05`	`jpa-`	`night`
`06:29.11`	`creeperz`	`that kid did a good job with that super-glue ;-)`
`06:29.14`	`DTRemenak`	`is not :)`
`06:29.25`	`DTRemenak`	`it's today already`
`06:29.27`	`jpa-`	`while i think he is too addicted to quit from such a good conversation like this :)`
`06:29.32`	`*** join/#bzflag SilverFox (SilverFox@68-116-47-254.or.charter.com)`
`06:29.41`	`sgk284`	`learner, the person got past the filter by spelling the plural of fu (i.e. fus)`
`06:29.52`	`DTRemenak`	`heh`
`06:29.57`	`creeperz`	`lol`
`06:29.58`	`learner`	`hrm`
`06:29.59`	`DTRemenak`	`that's almost humorous`
`06:30.00`	`learner`	`which server?`
`06:30.03`	`sgk284`	`secretplace`
`06:30.10`	`DTRemenak`	`heh`
`06:30.20`	`hw-`	`can I ask what is hte point of replacing the curse words with **** instead of just rejecting the entire message`
`06:30.29`	`hw-`	`it encourages filter abuse to display the censored message`
`06:30.32`	`sgk284`	`lol i'll go protect him`
`06:30.42`	`jpa-`	`** * *****`
`06:30.49`	`DTRemenak`	`heh, I think you ought to kick him yourself :)`
`06:30.58`	`DTRemenak`	`oops, did I say that in the channel?`
`06:31.16`	`hw-`	`you should let him repeatedly curse until some regulars get mad and start a poll then ban them`
`06:31.17`	`jpa-`	`yes`
`06:31.17`	`bryjen`	`trying not to mess up too bad on false positives?`
`06:33.47`	`hw-`	`can I ask why is there not a mute button for admins`
`06:33.58`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar (~wegstar@adsl-64-175-249-29.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`06:34.13`	`hw-`	`when people curse you could just mute them then they cannot send messages`
`06:34.19`	`DTRemenak`	`hw-: because noone has written one`
`06:34.37`	`creeperz`	`:-P`
`06:34.43`	`hw-`	`yeah but silence is already there`
`06:34.52`	`hw-`	`so it would just be * silences <badguy>`
`06:35.50`	`creeperz`	`learner: :-P`
`06:36.19`	`learner`	`looks like the filter is missing the word`
`06:37.05`	`jpa-`	`but, i can still do F * * K, yes?`
`06:37.18`	`learner`	`hw-, in the future, the server may have an option to be able to auto-kick players that cause so many filterings`
`06:37.24`	`learner`	`jpa-, no`
`06:37.32`	`jpa-`	`or does it know gappytext?`
`06:37.41`	`hw-`	`learner, it seems that mute would be an obvious and easy solution`
`06:37.48`	`learner`	`it knows a lot of the common things you'd think to use`
`06:38.00`	`learner`	`easiest way around it is to find a word not in the filter list`
`06:38.13`	`learner`	`hw-, that'd be a good patch`
`06:38.17`	`learner`	`bzfs option`
`06:38.19`	`jpa-`	`or use figlet-text :)`
`06:38.31`	`jpa-`	`we need send figlet -option to bzflag`
`06:38.42`	`hw-`	`once an admin mutes a player it becomes very hard for further infractions...`
`06:38.52`	`bryjen`	`moving silence to the server was discussed, so an admin could /silence foo and bzfs would stop relaying foo's MsgMessages`
`06:39.04`	`bryjen`	`donno if it was implemented`
`06:39.10`	`learner`	`hw-, i meant mute the single filtered message`
`06:39.20`	`learner`	`-quellFiltered or something`
`06:39.28`	`hw-`	`I mean prevent an abusive player from sending anymore messages`
`06:39.34`	`sgk284`	`ahh thats a nice and unobtrusive idea :)`
`06:39.37`	`hw-`	`only thing they can do after that is tk`
`06:39.43`	`learner`	`that's a different feature altogether unrelated to filtering`
`06:39.43`	`hw-`	`and most servers have tk autokick`
`06:39.44`	`sgk284`	`hw- if they are all blocked whats it matter?`
`06:39.50`	`wegstar`	`can the player still /report?`
`06:39.57`	`learner`	`that's been discussed plenty of times`
`06:40.06`	`sgk284`	`report is a 2.0 feature right?`
`06:40.16`	`learner`	`no, you can report in 1.10`
`06:40.25`	`learner`	`it was a 1.9 feature`
`06:40.36`	`jpa-`	`1.09 you mean?`
`06:40.43`	`jpa-`	`or hmm`
`06:40.45`	`hw-`	`without being able to send public or team or private messages it is hard for players to make trouble...`
`06:40.51`	`jpa-`	`how do the numbers go`
`06:41.08`	`sgk284`	`odds are dev versions... i think`
`06:41.18`	`sgk284`	`evens are releases`
`06:41.34`	`jpa-`	`they can still write with their treadmarks`
`06:41.46`	`jpa-`	`if _trackFade is high enough :)`
`06:41.59`	`jpa-`	`sgk284: yes, but i meant if it is 1.9 or 1.09`
`06:42.16`	`sgk284`	`is the duration of the treadmark set clientside? because its be nice if i could change it to be longer:)`
`06:42.21`	`sgk284`	`itd*`
`06:42.59`	`jpa-`	`sgk284: it is set with server param _trackFade`
`06:43.19`	`sgk284`	`okay`
`06:43.23`	`hw-`	`treadmarks should be tank color`
`06:43.24`	`jpa-`	`or variable..hmm`
`06:43.40`	`wegstar`	`goodnite all`
`06:43.42`	`sgk284`	`hw-, why?`
`06:43.42`	`*** part/#bzflag wegstar (~wegstar@adsl-64-175-249-29.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`06:43.50`	`hw-`	`because then all the tracks would look cool`
`06:44.00`	`hw-`	`and with high speed they should drift like racing cars`
`06:44.32`	`hw-`	`yay physics`
`06:45.13`	`sgk284`	`this may be geeky... but the other day i ammused myself by replicating the doppler effect with the puddles on the mirror and with shockwave...`
`06:45.15`	`sgk284`	`heh`
`06:45.25`	`JeffM2501`	`learner mac test? or tomorow? /me wants to sleep soon`
`06:46.04`	`learner`	`JeffM2501, one test in about 5-10 minutes?`
`06:46.07`	`learner`	`still compiling`
`06:46.11`	`hw-`	`doppler stands out a lot with thief flag`
`06:46.11`	`JeffM2501`	`sure`
`06:46.15`	`hw-`	`it has quick reload time`
`06:46.16`	`JeffM2501`	`wow that is slow`
`06:46.24`	`JeffM2501`	`dosn't sound any faster then my G3`
`06:46.31`	`learner`	`this is the 10th compile or something`
`06:46.51`	`learner`	`trying different build options to make it not link the system lib`
`06:55.38`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-2 (~CIA@to.je.spocco.com)`
`06:56.43`	`*** join/#bzflag mmu_man (revol@ALyon-112-1-4-6.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`06:58.17`	`hw-`	`^funny`
`07:07.51`	`learner`	`JeffM2501, tomorrow.. another problem`
`07:08.00`	`JeffM2501`	`suxor`
`07:08.06`	`learner`	`undefined symbol.. main`
`07:08.07`	`JeffM2501`	`what's making it not so happy?`
`07:08.11`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-2 (~CIA@to.je.spocco.com)`
`07:08.12`	`learner`	`dang sdlmain`
`07:08.25`	`JeffM2501`	`do 2 binarys?`
`07:08.37`	`*** part/#bzflag hw- (~hw@c-24-3-241-202.client.comcast.net)`
`07:08.45`	`learner`	`something to do with what the libsdl folks are doing (or not doing in this framework) instead of just doing what they do in the dylib..`
`07:09.21`	`JeffM2501`	`get the SDL sources, and build them right into the app, no lib :)`
`07:11.54`	`learner`	`i can hack it, but I was actually trying to follow their build suggestions`
`07:11.58`	`learner`	`silly me`
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`07:12.10`	`JeffM2501`	`heh`
`07:25.50`	`SportChick`	`so I guess hw is making his displeasure known`
`07:34.49`	`learner`	`SportChick, i think I'll have a good fix in for that slip here in a jiffy`
`07:35.37`	`SportChick`	`the filter?`
`07:35.39`	`SportChick`	`cool`
`07:35.44`	`learner`	`handle a whole slew of repetitive suffixes`
`07:35.50`	`learner`	`yeah`
`07:36.02`	`SportChick`	`awesome! thanks, learner! you are a prince!`
`07:36.06`	`SportChick`	`~learner++`
`07:36.11`	`learner`	`that got through as a combination of multiple suffixes .. lil oversight`
`07:36.24`	`noyb`	`see ya...`
`07:36.30`	`learner`	`see you noyb`
`07:36.33`	`SportChick`	`Jeff, we gotta reschedule that dinner soon`
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`09:01.06`	`learner`	`woo hoo.. it builds!`
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`09:05.53`	`learner`	`yeas measter..`
`09:07.00`	`learner`	`very cool`
`09:07.17`	`learner`	`we just became an objective-c++ project on the mac when building from xcode`
`09:07.38`	`purple_cow`	`so today, i was exposed to my first real objective C`
`09:07.41`	`purple_cow`	`and ya know what?`
`09:07.54`	`learner`	`not really`
`09:08.14`	`purple_cow`	`i am now firmly cemented in my belief that obj-c users are crackheads`
`09:08.22`	`learner`	`heh`
`09:08.54`	`learner`	`obj-c ala cocoa? gnustep? or frameworkless`
`09:09.08`	`purple_cow`	`doesn't matter`
`09:09.11`	`purple_cow`	`the syntax made my eyes bleed`
`09:09.24`	`learner`	`yea of little faith in pure dynamicly typed programming paradigm`
`09:09.48`	`purple_cow`	`learner: uhh, i'm a python groupie ;)`
`09:09.49`	`learner`	`actually tis not pure I suppose`
`09:09.54`	`learner`	`heh`
`09:10.23`	`learner`	`the syntax does take a while.. but that part is very familiar from a smalltalk background`
`09:10.31`	`purple_cow`	`doesn't get much more dynamic than python`
`09:11.16`	`purple_cow`	`except perhaps that guy that was making python into a prototype-based system`
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`09:12.32`	`learner`	`purple_cow, the original obj-c implementation was merely a slew of preprocessor macros`
`09:13.02`	`learner`	`#define [ ...`
`09:14.03`	`purple_cow`	`learner: how does that contradict my crackhead belief?`
`09:15.01`	`learner`	`mm.. apple needs to make cocoa frameworks cross-platform`
`09:15.19`	`learner`	`instant portability would make the language take off`
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`09:36.34`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/src/platform/MacOSX/main.m: no longer needed with the old project files obliterated`
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`09:45.48`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/src/platform/MacOSX/ (7 files in 3 dirs): English resouce directory for the old build system is obsoleted by the new build setup, so remove it.`
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`09:48.16`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/src/platform/MacOSX/ (SDLMain.m SDLMain.h Makefile.am): add the sdlmain hook code`
`09:59.30`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/configure.in: need objective-c compiler settings for libMac.a now. remove sdl from preprocessor (it's a linker option). remove English.lproj dirs.`
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`10:14.59`	`Chestal`	`tag`
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`10:16.27`	`learner`	`tag`
`10:20.05`	`Chestal`	`so, what did you people break overnight? :-)`
`10:20.57`	`learner`	`i'm still breaking, thank you very much :)`
`10:21.55`	`Chestal`	./configure: line 1406: syntax error near unexpected token `OBJC'
`10:22.08`	`learner`	`hrm`
`10:22.09`	`learner`	`see?`
`10:22.12`	`Chestal`	`have you converted bzflag to objective C? ;-)`
`10:25.21`	`learner`	`one line at a time`
`10:25.37`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/ (4 files in 2 dirs):`
`10:25.39`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: add initial new BZFlag xcode project for mac os x. this new project resolves`
`10:25.41`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: several long-standing build problems including keeping in sync with the unix`
`10:25.43`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: build. it still needs a means to do a make clean better as well as autogenerate`
`10:25.45`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: the info.plist using mkplist.cxx`
`10:27.07`	`Chestal`	`sometimes, I have to wait for my own lock, that always irritates me`
`10:27.29`	`learner`	`Chestal, re objc error .. you did autogen.sh yes?`
`10:27.35`	`Chestal`	`learner: yes`
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`10:28.06`	`Chestal`	`might be an issue with older autoconf stuff`
`10:28.47`	`learner`	`set var.. ac_subst var`
`10:29.02`	`Chestal`	`the line is _AM_DEPENDENCIES(OBJC)`
`10:29.08`	`Chestal`	`in the generated configure`
`10:29.15`	`learner`	`hrm`
`10:29.30`	`learner`	`try removing the []'s perhaps?`
`10:30.23`	`Chestal`	`what do you need it for?`
`10:30.38`	`Chestal`	`removing [] doesn't change anything`
`10:32.08`	`learner`	`it's required to get substitution of the OBJC dependency tracking variables in src/platform/MacOSX/Makefile`
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`10:32.19`	`learner`	`i.e. to work around an automake bug`
`10:33.28`	`Chestal`	`sadly, I have no clue about this auto* thing`
`10:33.41`	`Chestal`	`this is the only _AM_DEPENDENCIES line in configure.in, though`
`10:34.25`	`Chestal`	`seems like autoconf takes this as is into configure`
`10:36.41`	`Chestal`	`on my home PC, I don't get that errors (newer auto* tools), but HAVE_ASINF etc. do not get defined which leads to build errors`
`10:37.11`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/configure.in: try to appease other equally albeit differently buggy old versions of automake`
`10:37.42`	`Chestal`	`these *f functions are just wrong anyway, but I guess we have to for old compilers`
`10:37.44`	`learner`	`am_deps are keys to let automake know that it needs to use that keyword as a dependency (so that if it changes, require a rebuild`
`10:37.50`	`learner`	`try that configure.in..`
`10:38.40`	`Chestal`	`same thing, different line`
`10:39.08`	`learner`	`which line?`
`10:39.17`	`Chestal`	`different line number, but the line looks the same`
`10:39.29`	`Chestal`	`itjust seems to have produced some more code before that line`
`10:39.40`	`learner`	`ahh, yes`
`10:39.42`	`Chestal`	`1440 instead of 1406`
`10:40.05`	`learner`	`ac_check_projs instead of just setting the var`
`10:42.14`	`learner`	`Chestal, what's the reason for asinf failing?`
`10:42.18`	`learner`	`might be compiler flag..`
`10:42.29`	`Chestal`	`not sure, it finds sqrtf in a seperate check before`
`10:42.44`	`Chestal`	`but then all the other *f functions fail`
`10:43.02`	`learner`	`it's output in config.log`
`10:43.35`	`learner`	`it'll have the reason, actual output from the compiler, and then a slew of environment vars`
`10:44.06`	`Chestal`	`-framework SDL`
`10:44.10`	`Chestal`	`this option does not belong there`
`10:44.16`	`learner`	`yep, that's what I figured`
`10:44.22`	`learner`	`what's the framework SDL test say?`
`10:44.31`	`learner`	`(it should have failed)`
`10:44.50`	`learner`	`i suspect it didn't "fail" .. only outputting a warning or something`
`10:45.44`	`Chestal`	`configure:8446: checking for SDL framework`
`10:45.44`	`Chestal`	`configure:8467: ccache gcc -c -g -O2 conftest.c >&5`
`10:45.48`	`Chestal`	`no error`
`10:45.59`	`learner`	`heh, bastage`
`10:46.14`	`learner`	`no way that's a valid option`
`10:47.57`	`learner`	`there's no "unrecognized option" output anywhere??`
`10:48.16`	`Chestal`	`not there, but I don't understand what it does exactly, hard to read this stuff`
`10:48.30`	`learner`	`can you send/paste/post?`
`10:48.31`	`Chestal`	`you see the two lines I pasted above`
`10:48.39`	`Chestal`	`shouldn't there be a -framework option on the gcc line?`
`10:50.00`	`learner`	`hrm.. perhaps..`
`10:51.06`	`Chestal`	`hmm, ac_compile`
`10:51.10`	`Chestal`	`but -framework is LDFLAGS`
`10:51.21`	`Chestal`	`so I guess it's only used when linking`
`10:51.31`	`Chestal`	`<PROTECTED>`
`10:51.59`	`Chestal`	`see gcc -c above`
`10:52.03`	`learner`	`apparently for at least your version it's leaving it out`
`10:52.21`	`Chestal`	`well, it's correct not to use LDFLAGS for -c`
`10:52.22`	`learner`	`try a AC_TRY_LINK`
`10:53.58`	`Chestal`	`checking for SDL framework... no`
`10:54.04`	`Chestal`	`checking for asinf... yes`
`10:54.26`	`learner`	`great`
`10:54.28`	`Chestal`	`that's better`
`10:54.49`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/configure.in: give the other confers something to compile that should fail a little more easily -- link too`
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`11:57.50`	`jpa-`	`:)`
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`14:03.06`	`learner`	`great .. now the test fails of mac too`
`14:03.34`	`Pimpinella`	`he...`
`14:05.25`	`learner`	`wooo`
`14:05.27`	`learner`	`http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/01/14/apple_powerbook_g5/`
`14:06.28`	`Pimpinella`	`will be much too expensive :(`
`14:10.02`	`learner`	`i'm more interested in it's speed :)`
`14:13.30`	`Pimpinella`	`are possible values for bzdb values listed somewhere?`
`14:14.05`	`Pimpinella`	`e.g. for all those rain settings`
`14:14.30`	`jpa-`	`<PROTECTED>`
`14:14.35`	`jpa-`	`oh`
`14:14.43`	`jpa-`	`misunderstood`
`14:14.48`	`Pimpinella`	`:)`
`14:15.18`	`Pimpinella`	`and whats the use of the physics object?`
`14:15.43`	`jpa-`	`to make moving stuff`
`14:15.52`	`jpa-`	`that moves tank too`
`14:16.18`	`*** join/#bzflag noyb (~noyb@wbar2.lax1-4-8-213-215.dsl-verizon.net)`
`14:16.31`	`jpa-`	`http://warri1.dyndns.org/~petteri/river.bzw has river and escalators`
`14:16.43`	`jpa-`	`if you want example :)`
`14:18.58`	`*** join/#bzflag noyb (~noyb@wbar2.lax1-4-8-213-215.dsl-verizon.net)`
`14:19.43`	`noyb`	`jpa-: what was that url again?`
`14:19.58`	`jpa-`	`again? :)`
`14:20.02`	`jpa-`	`http://warri1.dyndns.org/~petteri/river.bzw`
`14:20.08`	`jpa-`	`you have bad memory :D`
`14:20.37`	`Pimpinella`	`ty jpa-`
`14:20.42`	`noyb`	`I have a bad terminal... I crashed it with a very large cut/paste.`
`14:21.35`	`jpa-`	`haha`
`14:22.19`	`jpa-`	`it is nice when you paste ~10kB text with termspeed=300`
`14:22.33`	`jpa-`	`it writes it quite long in nano`
`14:22.41`	`jpa-`	`(updates screen every time)`
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`14:29.33`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/configure.in: do not use a header that redefines main or it will simply fail for everyone!`
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`14:43.36`	`*** join/#bzflag Grumbler (~a06091d2@grumbler.bronze.supporter.pdpc)`
`14:43.56`	`Grumbler`	./configure: line 1440: syntax error near unexpected token `OBJC'
`14:43.56`	`Grumbler`	./configure: line 1440: `_AM_DEPENDENCIES(OBJC)'
`14:44.13`	`Grumbler`	`a ./configure off a fresh HEAD checkout`
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`14:48.21`	`Chestal`	`Grumbler: same I get, learner already knows about it. For now, I simply remove that line from the generated configure`
`14:48.55`	`Grumbler`	`ok....`
`14:49.05`	`Chestal`	`seems to work fine with newer autotools`
`14:49.08`	`Grumbler`	`its not used anywhere else in the configure`
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`14:52.30`	`Grumbler`	`just for reference then automake (GNU automake) 1.4-p6`
`14:54.24`	`Grumbler`	`dang the roof is leaking`
`14:54.42`	`Pimpinella`	`how works roaming in 1.11?`
`14:55.49`	`Chestal`	`arrow keys to move, +shift/alt/ctrl to change height etc.`
`14:55.56`	`Chestal`	`might be tht you have a bad autocovnerted config`
`14:56.11`	`Chestal`	`try moving it out of the way, so it can create a fresh one`
`14:56.18`	`jpa-`	`you must bind arrows`
`14:56.28`	`jpa-`	`they are not bind if converted`
`14:56.31`	`learner`	`yes, we knows.. but we does not have an alternative in mind yet..`
`14:56.46`	`Pimpinella`	`k, ty`
`14:56.57`	`jpa-`	`learner: you and your precious?`
`14:57.04`	`learner`	`does it still do it if you wrap it in "if x$host_os = xmacos ; then .. fi" ?`
`14:57.23`	`learner`	`(Grumbler)`
`14:57.27`	`Pimpinella`	`learner: heard you are an tk'er? ROTFL ;)`
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`14:57.39`	`learner`	`Pimpinella: =)`
`14:58.50`	`learner`	`that silly "real name" thing gets 'em every time ;)`
`14:59.07`	`Pimpinella`	`he...`
`14:59.39`	`learner`	`Chestal, could you try the same fix?`
`15:02.22`	`Chestal`	`only around the _AM_DEPENDENCIES([OBJC]) line?`
`15:04.17`	`learner`	`yea`
`15:07.07`	`*** join/#bzflag sgk284 (~sgk284@ws50.cs.drexel.edu)`
`15:07.10`	`sgk284`	`hello`
`15:09.11`	`Chestal`	`hmm, does not work, but I don't quite understand why`
`15:09.28`	`learner`	`mkay, then I'll keep searching`
`15:09.48`	`learner`	`m4 is trying to expand it -- not a shell variable problem`
`15:10.49`	`Chestal`	`Iwould have thought that sh skips the part to the endif, but obviously it tries to parse it nonetheless?`
`15:24.19`	`Nidhoggr`	`heh`
`15:24.28`	`sgk284`	`morning nid`
`15:24.34`	`Nidhoggr`	`good morning.`
`15:28.28`	`jpa-`	`Nidhoggr: i saw you going to sleep`
`15:28.32`	`jpa-`	`and i see you waking up`
`15:28.39`	`jpa-`	`now this feels strange`
`15:28.46`	`jpa-`	`i stay up more than you sleep`
`15:28.52`	`sgk284`	`lol,jpa- what time zone you in?`
`15:29.01`	`jpa-`	`gmt+2`
`15:29.13`	`Nidhoggr`	`I don't really sleep all that much. :)`
`15:29.13`	`sgk284`	`oh that explains it`
`15:29.17`	`Nidhoggr`	`yeah.`
`15:29.22`	`sgk284`	`and that ^`
`15:29.27`	`Nidhoggr`	`I'm gmt-7`
`15:29.33`	`sgk284`	`-5 here`
`15:29.39`	`sgk284`	`i think...`
`15:29.42`	`sgk284`	`:)`
`15:29.51`	`Nidhoggr`	`I've actually been awake for about 3 hours anyway.`
`15:29.53`	`jpa-`	`negative people!`
`15:30.08`	`Nidhoggr`	`was a long day yesterday and an early day today.`
`15:32.11`	`Grumbler`	`learner, i will check......hold on, chestal says no worky...will wait.....commenting it out does work`
`15:46.10`	`*** join/#bzflag Legolas (~Legolas@69.106.132.154)`
`15:58.22`	`*** join/#bzflag occy_ (~october@ip24-252-197-99.mc.at.cox.net)`
`15:59.19`	`occy_`	`when I am in gnome (2.8.0) I can sometimes accidently get "locked out" of my bzflag session. Background: I've had F1 bound to a term since like... 96' And so sometimes I accidently hit F1 instead of Escape...`
`15:59.21`	`occy_`	`heh`
`15:59.39`	`occy_`	`anyway I can resume the session?`
`15:59.56`	`occy_`	`I'm on 59998 (it's a really cool map, if someone could join really quickly... don't want to lose that map)`
`16:00.41`	`occy_`	`ducati 59998 that is.`
`16:01.35`	`occy_`	`heh`
`16:02.37`	`t-s`	`Hmm, bzflag 1.11.37.20050112-DEVEL-darwin7.7.0-SDL just crashed for me at startup.`
`16:03.03`	`Chestal`	`might be the same that happened to DTR`
`16:03.05`	`t-s`	`Anyone want a crash log? (next start worked perfectly)`
`16:03.13`	`Chestal`	`I think it was some epty variable in the config file`
`16:03.20`	`Chestal`	`oh?, hmm`
`16:04.05`	`t-s`	`fonts have been huge white rect signs`
`16:04.20`	`t-s`	`now theire readable again`
`16:04.44`	`Chestal`	`I get the white blocks on my home machien when I use high texture filtering, have no idea, why though, might be just the drivers`
`16:06.04`	`t-s`	`system drivers..hmm it's a radeon mobile (7500?) with 32MB RAM`
`16:07.57`	`t-s`	`Thread 0 Crashed:`
`16:07.58`	`t-s`	`0 GLEngine 0x0672bfac 0x66b1000 + 0x7afac`
`16:07.58`	`t-s`	`....`
`16:08.23`	`t-s`	`seems like it's really related to OpenGL`
`16:09.17`	`Chestal`	`it only did it once?`
`16:10.04`	`t-s`	`It worked previously and it works now again. Only that one time it crashed`
`16:11.18`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar (~wegstar@adsl-67-121-188-203.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`16:11.53`	`*** join/#bzflag smec (~smec@c5375170d.cable.wanadoo.nl)`
`16:20.12`	`*** join/#bzflag ep (~ep@ip68-97-124-161.ok.ok.cox.net)`
`16:20.24`	`*** join/#bzflag bz5649 (~97082f6d@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`16:20.58`	`*** join/#bzflag david_v (~david_v@c-4ebae055.17-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)`
`16:23.24`	`david_v`	`tam tam, is any dev here to discuss a simple last-minute fix ?`
`16:23.34`	`david_v`	`for 2.0`
`16:23.56`	`Chestal`	`fix?`
`16:24.25`	`Chestal`	`looks like Huygens landed successfully on Titan`
`16:24.30`	`david_v`	`yeah. i wrote my little "bz launcher" and...`
`16:24.48`	`david_v`	`bzflag -version uses stderr, grrr! :)`
`16:24.58`	`david_v`	`no idea how to catch that output on win`
`16:25.02`	`david_v`	`stdout would be good`
`16:25.05`	`david_v`	`or both`
`16:25.38`	`Chestal`	`hmm, indeed,it dump -help and stuff to stderr`
`16:25.48`	`Chestal`	`I guess you can argue where it should go to`
`16:25.52`	`orchid`	`david_v: did you change the fonts on your playerlist site?`
`16:26.04`	`orchid`	`something is amiss`
`16:26.07`	`orchid`	`:P`
`16:26.12`	`david_v`	`orchid: the sizes yea, but try the settings page :)`
`16:26.18`	`orchid`	`ahh ok`
`16:26.19`	`david_v`	`amiss?`
`16:26.29`	`orchid`	`wrong`
`16:26.35`	`david_v`	`ah`
`16:26.40`	`Chestal`	`personally, I prefer when programs print thsi stuff to stdout, a lot do, then others don't`
`16:27.10`	`*** join/#bzflag kFraction (~kFraction@serifos.eecs.harvard.edu)`
`16:27.16`	`cods`	`bzw.5 man page show that tetra object can take a phydrv keyword, but that don't seem to be the case.`
`16:27.58`	`david_v`	`Chestal: if stdout + stderr is used (only on windows) i would be very happy, i could even write a patch if you like :)`
`16:29.25`	`Nidhoggr`	`bzfs needs to be configurable to write a pid file.`
`16:30.06`	`*** part/#bzflag kFraction (~kFraction@serifos.eecs.harvard.edu)`
`16:30.42`	`david_v`	`Chestal: otoh stderr is a little annoying, the best would be stdout only an both platforms. emm hmm`
`16:30.54`	`david_v`	`stderr on win gives you a dialog box`
`16:31.13`	`cods`	`so, unless I'm wrong, I think this small patch should be applid to bzw.5s: http://tuxee.net/man-bzw-2.patch`
`16:31.24`	`david_v`	`well, not exactly dialog, but an error msg in a window`
`16:31.33`	`cods`	`(which remove 'phydrv' from tetra object example)`
`16:31.33`	`Chestal`	`david_v: the change would be fine with me, will wait for some other opinions, though`
`16:32.39`	`david_v`	`Chestal: i don't worry too much as long as it gets into 2.0, after that may not be so wise to break stuff`
`16:32.52`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~JeffM@Patlabor221.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`16:33.05`	`david_v`	`right now people can't launch 1.11 from my site if they're on win though`
`16:33.26`	`Chestal`	`you using a java applet?`
`16:33.27`	`cods`	`Chestal: can you apply the patch above to bzw.5s ?`
`16:33.53`	`david_v`	`Chestal: yep`
`16:34.28`	`Chestal`	`david_v: hmm, an applet shouldn't be allowed tolaunch stuff? I guess people have to somehow set it to be trusted?`
`16:34.35`	`david_v`	`signed java applet`
`16:35.06`	`*** join/#bzflag Birdie (~birdie@d54C34D0B.access.telenet.be)`
`16:35.39`	`Chestal`	`cods: you sure about the change? I have no clue`
`16:36.05`	`gonkulator`	`/win 2`
`16:36.06`	`cods`	`Chestal: tested both a tiny map to validate that. And I checked again source code, and checked again the syntax part of bzw.`
`16:36.09`	`gonkulator`	`oops`
`16:37.21`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03chestal * 10bzflag/man/bzw.5s: no phys drivers for tetrahedrons`
`16:38.27`	`david_v`	`Chestal: http://fortix.bzflag.org/list.php?server=1vs1.pimpi.org%3A5160 as an example, you can click on the white box (0/10) to join the observer team, you'd get a dialog box asking what to do`
`16:42.29`	`DTRemenak`	`david_v: if you want a cheap way to get around bzflag -version using a dialog instead of text, use bzfs -version instead`
`16:42.54`	`DTRemenak`	`anyone who doesn't have matching versions of bzflag and bzfs has a screwed up install anyway`
`16:42.58`	`Chestal`	`oh, that goes to stdout?`
`16:43.02`	`DTRemenak`	`yup`
`16:43.14`	`Chestal`	`and -help, too`
`16:43.23`	`Chestal`	`k, I'll make the client do the same then`
`16:43.38`	`DTRemenak`	`mmm, I don't really like that idea`
`16:43.38`	`Chestal`	`unless there is a good reason to use stderr?`
`16:43.41`	`DTRemenak`	`yup`
`16:43.44`	`Chestal`	`there is?`
`16:43.53`	`DTRemenak`	`start->run->c:\progra~1\bzflag1.11\bzflag -version`
`16:44.02`	`DTRemenak`	`if it goes to stdout you get no output`
`16:44.18`	`Chestal`	`bah, broken OS :-)`
`16:44.20`	`DTRemenak`	`yup`
`16:44.34`	`david_v`	`:) thx DTRemenak, will try with that`
`16:45.03`	`DTRemenak`	`Chestal: 'twould be ugly, but maybe a -stdout flag. so bzflag -stdout -version?`
`16:45.21`	`Chestal`	`hmm, too ugly IMHO`
`16:45.28`	`DTRemenak`	`thought you'd say that :)`
`16:45.47`	`JeffM2501`	`why not just set the version resource?`
`16:45.48`	`david_v`	`lol`
`16:46.23`	`DTRemenak`	`that would be one more thing to change for every version bump`
`16:46.29`	`*** join/#bzflag Noodle-sensei (~tuckerm@bc186118.bendcable.com)`
`16:46.35`	`DTRemenak`	`unless we can find some way to automate it`
`16:46.53`	`JeffM2501`	`you could, it's just text in the .rc`
`16:46.57`	`david_v`	`also it's much easier for me anyway to grep out -version output rather than use some os-specific hacks`
`16:47.04`	`david_v`	`oh`
`16:47.06`	`DTRemenak`	`does it run through the c preprocessor?`
`16:47.31`	`DTRemenak`	`then we could use the #defines for BZ_MAJOR_VERSION and so on`
`16:47.32`	`JeffM2501`	`no, you'd have to make a script or util that set it from the version.h before the main apps were built`
`16:47.39`	`DTRemenak`	`belch`
`16:47.49`	`JeffM2501`	`well at least I don't THINK it is`
`16:47.49`	`DTRemenak`	`on any other os I'd say that's a fine solution :)`
`16:47.52`	`JeffM2501`	`maybe they do`
`16:48.36`	`Nidhoggr`	`does windows have an equiv of process id (pid) ?`
`16:48.46`	`DTRemenak`	`yes`
`16:48.51`	`DTRemenak`	`at least nt-based does`
`16:49.19`	`Nidhoggr`	`so getpid() should work in windows, too?`
`16:49.28`	`DTRemenak`	`mm, wouldn't guarantee that`
`16:49.58`	`JeffM2501`	`what are you trying to do?`
`16:50.14`	`Nidhoggr`	`none of the stuff I'm trying to get into bz is happening. maybe I'm not whining loud enough. :)`
`16:50.29`	`JeffM2501`	`what do you need pid for?`
`16:50.38`	`DTRemenak`	`Nidhoggr: _getpid() on windows`
`16:50.40`	`Nidhoggr`	`I need to find an easy way for certain people to get on the server and restart stuff without giving them root access.`
`16:50.57`	`Nidhoggr`	`so I need the pid`
`16:51.13`	`Nidhoggr`	`bash will return the pid, but it doesn't work properly from a script.`
`16:51.48`	`JeffM2501`	`screen won't do it?`
`16:51.53`	`Nidhoggr`	`screen?`
`16:52.00`	`JeffM2501`	`run each in a screen`
`16:52.05`	`Nidhoggr`	`um. no.`
`16:52.08`	`JeffM2501`	`ok`
`16:52.09`	`Nidhoggr`	`screen is a bad idea.`
`16:52.17`	`Nidhoggr`	`these all run in a chroot.`
`16:52.17`	`JeffM2501`	`ok`
`16:52.23`	`Nidhoggr`	`as a background process.`
`16:52.24`	`JeffM2501`	`ahh`
`16:52.40`	`Chestal`	`Nidhoggr: hmm, I don't understand where the problem with bash is?`
`16:52.50`	`JeffM2501`	`just put in a nix thing and have it write out a file that has the pid, and the contents are the public addr and port`
`16:52.58`	`JeffM2501`	`to a file`
`16:53.03`	`JeffM2501`	`then your script can get it`
`16:53.15`	`JeffM2501`	`windows users will just use remote desktop`
`16:53.33`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah, that particular functionality would be rather pointless on windows`
`16:53.45`	`*** join/#bzflag t-s (~ts@pD95631E6.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`16:54.06`	`Nidhoggr`	`chestal, I tried doing the thing to get the pid in the script, but it always returns the pid of the parent.`
`16:54.09`	`Nidhoggr`	`not of bzfs`
`16:54.15`	`Nidhoggr`	`which is chroot`
`16:54.27`	`Chestal`	`ah`
`16:54.40`	`Nidhoggr`	`so I get no scriptie joy`
`16:55.49`	`Nidhoggr`	`if I could do bzfs -conf blah.cf -pidfile blah.pid, it'd make things very handy.`
`16:55.58`	`Chestal`	`hmm, I am not very familiar with chroot, does it fork?`
`16:56.05`	`Chestal`	`I woudl have assumed it jsut execs`
`16:56.15`	`JeffM2501`	`one woudl think that sould be very easy to implement`
`16:56.20`	`Nidhoggr`	`I thought it execs.`
`16:56.44`	`Chestal`	`but if it just execs, pid should be correct`
`16:56.45`	`Nidhoggr`	`JeffM2501: yes... it's a simple getpid() in c++ and _getpid() in windows, apparently.`
`16:57.06`	`JeffM2501`	`Nidhoggr, why even bother with windows`
`16:57.07`	`Nidhoggr`	`well, tell that to the OS. :-p`
`16:57.09`	`DTRemenak`	`I'd say you don't need to bother with the windows side`
`16:57.10`	`JeffM2501`	`it won't do anything`
`16:57.11`	`DTRemenak`	`heh`
`16:57.15`	`Nidhoggr`	`JeffM2501: dunno. just remarking.`
`16:57.18`	`Chestal`	`i.e. chroot is started by shell,with pid x, execs bzfs, pid of bzfs is then x, too`
`16:57.22`	`JeffM2501`	`just make it a nix only feature`
`16:57.30`	`JeffM2501`	`should take 5 to to min`
`16:57.42`	`Chestal`	`then there's always pidof etc.`
`16:57.48`	`Chestal`	`but I am not objecting a bzflag option`
`16:57.49`	`Nidhoggr`	`chestal: I wish I knew why it didn't work right. it's not returnign the proper pid.`
`16:58.37`	`JeffM2501`	`I'll even make the patch for you if you want`
`16:58.40`	`Nidhoggr`	`:)`
`16:59.23`	`JeffM2501`	`well on 5 hour old code`
`16:59.50`	`Nidhoggr`	`like last time I tried the bash thing, I spent an hour or so writing a script to start and stop various bzfs instances... then found that the pid it was gathering was the wrong one. :(`
`17:00.22`	`DTRemenak`	`JeffM2501: the actual code hasn't changed in 7 hours or so`
`17:00.30`	`JeffM2501`	`fun fun`
`17:00.32`	`DTRemenak`	`just configure.in and bzw.5`
`17:00.53`	`JeffM2501`	`well I had confilcts up the wazzoo cus the last patch was applied`
`17:00.54`	`Nidhoggr`	`do users/groups authentication to my.bzflag.org work yet?`
`17:01.05`	`DTRemenak`	`yes`
`17:01.09`	`Nidhoggr`	`oooh.`
`17:01.24`	`JeffM2501`	`Nidhoggr you may also like the switch I made a patch for`
`17:01.28`	`JeffM2501`	`-requireidentify`
`17:01.30`	`Nidhoggr`	`which means I should send my admins email saying to register on my.bzflag.org asap.`
`17:01.41`	`JeffM2501`	`makes everyon ID before they can spawn, even if the name is not reged.`
`17:01.42`	`DTRemenak`	`I think only Tim's HiX is using my.b.o groups`
`17:01.58`	`Nidhoggr`	`hrm. what happens if they are not regged?`
`17:02.05`	`JeffM2501`	`can't spawn`
`17:02.12`	`Nidhoggr`	`not sure I wanna do that yet.`
`17:02.13`	`creeperz`	`i think its a good idea`
`17:02.13`	`JeffM2501`	`and are given a message that says "dude register"`
`17:02.19`	`Nidhoggr`	`heh.`
`17:02.28`	`creeperz`	`if it has the argument -requireidentify then it should MAKE you identify`
`17:02.30`	`JeffM2501`	`thats why it's there in addition to the current stuff`
`17:02.50`	`JeffM2501`	`creeperz, you can't allways do that, because the name may not be in the db yet`
`17:03.11`	`JeffM2501`	`Nidhoggr, you can make a group in bzbb and add who ever you want, since your an admin`
`17:03.22`	`Nidhoggr`	`creeperz: our current thing is to require identify for registered users.`
`17:03.24`	`Nidhoggr`	`cool`
`17:03.24`	`creeperz`	`in the bzfs db or are you talking about the phpbb side?`
`17:03.25`	`JeffM2501`	`just make it hidden, and you as the moderator of it.`
`17:03.29`	`creeperz`	`ohh`
`17:03.33`	`creeperz`	`ok`
`17:03.36`	`Nidhoggr`	`and if you aren't registered, you can just play.`
`17:03.43`	`Nidhoggr`	`we just don't want people stealing callsigns.`
`17:03.53`	`Chestal`	`I am not quite clear about how global and local logins work together`
`17:03.54`	`creeperz`	`good idea`
`17:04.00`	`JeffM2501`	`some want everyone to register`
`17:04.11`	`JeffM2501`	`we also talked about a "spwan" permision`
`17:04.17`	`JeffM2501`	`but that would take more changes`
`17:04.20`	`*** join/#bzflag blast007_ (~blast@dialup-4.158.219.112.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net)`
`17:04.21`	`Chestal`	`is there a way to disallow /register?`
`17:04.34`	`JeffM2501`	`if you don't have the files, the data will never be saved`
`17:05.01`	`Nidhoggr`	`chestal: I'm not real clear on that either.`
`17:05.14`	`Nidhoggr`	`there seems to be some confusion, since grumbler mentioned it, too.`
`17:05.22`	`Chestal`	`a global login creates a local login without a pass now`
`17:05.26`	`JeffM2501`	`the server will allways LET you register`
`17:05.44`	`JeffM2501`	`I could make it disable registration if there was not a users file`
`17:06.02`	`JeffM2501`	`or basicly not any 1 of the 3 files.`
`17:06.03`	`Chestal`	`the users file is more or less needed with global logins still`
`17:06.16`	`JeffM2501`	`the groups would be the big one for globals`
`17:06.18`	`Chestal`	`I must configure the privileges for users`
`17:06.32`	`JeffM2501`	`basicly you'll allways have to ahve at least 1 of the 3 files`
`17:07.13`	`JeffM2501`	`Nidhoggr, you want it called "-pidfile" ?`
`17:07.21`	`Nidhoggr`	`yes.`
`17:07.25`	`Nidhoggr`	`thanks :)`
`17:09.59`	`JeffM2501`	`the method on nix is getPID(); ?`
`17:10.36`	`Chestal`	`pid_t getpid()`
`17:11.39`	`JeffM2501`	`fopen on nix is fopen(filename, mode, perms); ?`
`17:11.54`	`menotume`	`~seen dax`
`17:11.55`	`ibot`	`dax is currently on #bzflag (5h 51m 27s)`
`17:12.27`	`Chestal`	`JeffM2501: no, fopen is fopen, no perms`
`17:12.29`	`Nidhoggr`	`I sent email to folks on my admin list to get registered on my.bzflag.org asap.`
`17:13.55`	`Chestal`	`the interaction between global and local logins need some clarification/discussion`
`17:14.01`	`JeffM2501`	`Nidhoggr, you want a newline?`
`17:14.11`	`JeffM2501`	`chestal, IIRC they are basicly the same`
`17:14.15`	`Nidhoggr`	`probably not`
`17:14.31`	`Nidhoggr`	I should be able to do a kill -9 `cat secretplace.pid`
`17:14.39`	`Chestal`	`there are some subtleties, where it's not quite clear what happens, at least to me`
`17:14.54`	`JeffM2501`	`that's tim's thingy`
`17:15.41`	`Nidhoggr`	`Chestal: I agree. we need to understand the subtleties of how they work together.`
`17:15.42`	`JeffM2501`	`from what I was told, it just says that hey that user is authed, and has these groups`
`17:15.52`	`Chestal`	`I'd go with a newline, shouldn't really matter, though`
`17:15.54`	`JeffM2501`	`and if you have a local group def then your cool`
`17:15.59`	`JeffM2501`	`and it'll use those perms`
`17:16.09`	`Chestal`	`I don't think groups are used already?`
`17:16.27`	`JeffM2501`	`groups have been used for perms since day one of reg`
`17:16.36`	`JeffM2501`	`the remote group name is just sent`
`17:16.40`	`JeffM2501`	`to the server`
`17:16.51`	`JeffM2501`	`and if that server has a permset for that group`
`17:16.55`	`JeffM2501`	`then it'll be used`
`17:16.56`	`Chestal`	`uhm`
`17:16.58`	`Chestal`	`that's scary`
`17:17.05`	`JeffM2501`	`BINGO!`
`17:17.26`	`JeffM2501`	`anyone on bzbb can set themseves to an "ADMIN" group`
`17:17.28`	`Nidhoggr`	`are we doing these things as hidden groups?`
`17:17.34`	`JeffM2501`	`and get access to every single server out there!`
`17:17.40`	`Chestal`	`the user file only has default/registered`
`17:17.41`	`JeffM2501`	`Nidhoggr, I am`
`17:17.43`	`Nidhoggr`	`ok.`
`17:17.50`	`JeffM2501`	`ADMIN is a default internal group`
`17:18.00`	`Chestal`	`would have to look at the code, though, to see what really happens`
`17:18.06`	`JeffM2501`	`the only saving grace is that only a few can make groups`
`17:18.22`	`JeffM2501`	`but hey, you too can make em, and take over any server :)`
`17:18.44`	`Nidhoggr`	`woo.`
`17:18.56`	`Nidhoggr`	`created my 2 groups. should also create a whitelist group.`
`17:21.26`	`JeffM2501`	`Nidhoggr, http://appletalk.rhapsody.com.hk:443/appletalk/viewtopic.php?t=9233 <---- 5 minis == 1 cube :)`
`17:21.33`	`Chestal`	`are there any logins which already have groups?`
`17:21.58`	`JeffM2501`	`tim gave some people a test group for his server`
`17:22.00`	`Nidhoggr`	`wow.`
`17:22.02`	`Nidhoggr`	`cool :)`
`17:22.06`	`JeffM2501`	`or do you mean localy?`
`17:22.19`	`Chestal`	`no, rfom bzbb`
`17:22.28`	`JeffM2501`	`just tims test one`
`17:22.33`	`JeffM2501`	`I can make you a group`
`17:22.35`	`JeffM2501`	`if you wish`
`17:22.35`	`Chestal`	`the people who logged inso far seem to have been groupless`
`17:22.38`	`JeffM2501`	`for duc`
`17:22.47`	`JeffM2501`	`99.9% are`
`17:23.02`	`Chestal`	`this has to be clarified and discussed`
`17:23.11`	`Chestal`	`before a release`
`17:23.16`	`Chestal`	`this is a total showstopper for me`
`17:23.33`	`JeffM2501`	`and somone wonderd why I made so much noise about it before :)`
`17:23.44`	`Chestal`	`I have always been udner the assumption that it only does user verification`
`17:23.50`	`Nidhoggr`	`which is why I'm creating groups now.`
`17:23.58`	`JeffM2501`	`whats the point of it just doing that?`
`17:24.15`	`Chestal`	`JeffM2501: that's the main point of the system IMHO`
`17:24.22`	`Chestal`	`no need to register at every single server`
`17:24.41`	`Chestal`	`and as adminI can immediately trust the logins`
`17:24.58`	`JeffM2501`	`the system can do more then that`
`17:24.59`	`Chestal`	`and can then decide what privileges to give, jsut as before`
`17:25.01`	`JeffM2501`	`leauge games`
`17:25.04`	`JeffM2501`	`cop groups`
`17:25.06`	`JeffM2501`	`stuff like that`
`17:25.09`	`Chestal`	`yes`
`17:25.09`	`JeffM2501`	`why limit it?`
`17:25.20`	`JeffM2501`	`you still descide what perms`
`17:25.22`	`Chestal`	`but I don't really want to give out privileges based on bzbb groups`
`17:25.42`	`JeffM2501`	`so you want a -ignoreremotegroups`
`17:25.46`	`Chestal`	`as I understand it, righ tnow,I have no control`
`17:25.50`	`JeffM2501`	`some will want to give perms on remote groups`
`17:25.51`	`Chestal`	`yes, basically`
`17:26.07`	`Chestal`	`or maybe allow specific remote groups`
`17:26.13`	`Chestal`	`but not admin, that's for sure`
`17:26.16`	`JeffM2501`	`well 1) remote should ALLWAYS ignore the admin group`
`17:26.29`	`Chestal`	`I could iamgine definign a list of remote groups which are used`
`17:26.32`	`Chestal`	`and only those`
`17:26.37`	`JeffM2501`	`2) you should probbly have a group file for remote and a group file for local`
`17:26.49`	`JeffM2501`	`then if you didn't have a remote groups file, they would be screwed`
`17:26.58`	`JeffM2501`	`then you could still do remote auth`
`17:27.07`	`JeffM2501`	`and merge in the groups from your local users file`
`17:27.08`	`Chestal`	`I think a closed list of remote groups to use would work fine`
`17:27.27`	`JeffM2501`	`sadly noone was consulted when this was implemented`
`17:27.58`	`Chestal`	`I wasn't following events backthen`
`17:28.05`	`Chestal`	`anyway, now I know ;-)`
`17:28.14`	`JeffM2501`	`that's the thing, all it was, was that wiki`
`17:28.31`	`Chestal`	`well, bz isn't documented very well at this point`
`17:28.43`	`Chestal`	`it's work that noone likes to do, I understand that`
`17:28.47`	`JeffM2501`	`ya think :)`
`17:28.57`	`Chestal`	`the protocol doc is sadly out of date`
`17:29.09`	`JeffM2501`	`but some features are discussed and "known" more then others`
`17:29.20`	`JeffM2501`	`more people know about masterban then karma`
`17:30.24`	`Chestal`	`I know about the same amount about both`
`17:30.32`	`JeffM2501`	`Nidhoggr, you want to petition for patch 1102462 to be applied to CVS`
`17:30.44`	`JeffM2501`	`well yeah but as you said you don't pay much attention :)`
`17:31.28`	`Chestal`	`musterban is a simple thing though, so bzfs manpage should tellme everything I need to know (at least from a client view)`
`17:31.46`	`Nidhoggr`	`sure. :)`
`17:31.51`	`JeffM2501`	`well during it's design we went thru a number of posible implemenations`
`17:31.55`	`JeffM2501`	`with the CVS and stuff`
`17:32.02`	`*** join/#bzflag SportChick (~SportChic@ca-redbch-cuda1-c5b-b-192.stmnca.adelphia.net)`
`17:32.04`	`JeffM2501`	`and how we update and keep masterban`
`17:32.17`	`Chestal`	`yes, that's the complciated part`
`17:32.22`	`JeffM2501`	`yup`
`17:32.23`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/ListServerConnection.cxx: never, ever, request group info for ADMIN from the list server`
`17:32.25`	`Chestal`	`but as a server owner, that's not important to know`
`17:32.38`	`Chestal`	`the optins and /command are documented, so it's fine`
`17:32.42`	`JeffM2501`	`but it was done very colaborative so it was done well IMHO`
`17:32.45`	`Chestal`	`(assuming they work :-)`
`17:33.20`	`Chestal`	`the bzbb login stuff righ tnow is simple, but not too bad IMHO, it works. It's more the details of how this stuff is then used in bzfs`
`17:33.25`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm going to make reg and ID be disabled if you have no local files, since you HAVE to have at least 1`
`17:34.36`	`DTRemenak`	`Chestal: it only requests groups that are defined already on the server, and will now never request admin. As long as the local and remote groups have unique names, there shouldn't be any problems.`
`17:35.08`	`DTRemenak`	`it would still be good to be able to define a list of allowed remote groups`
`17:35.10`	`Chestal`	`DTRemenak: I really want the control. Right now, I want _no_ remote groups to be used on my servers`
`17:35.39`	`JeffM2501`	`but you DO want local auth`
`17:35.43`	`DTRemenak`	`right. as long as none of your groups' names overlap the boards' group names, none will be used.`
`17:36.02`	`*** join/#bzflag newbie__dont (~janko@dlg135.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)`
`17:36.04`	`DTRemenak`	`and see my comment about it still being a good idea to be able to define a list of allowed remote groups`
`17:36.09`	`Chestal`	`DTRemenak: that's not good enough IMHO`
`17:36.16`	`JeffM2501`	`can a user name exist in the users file, yet not in the passfile, and the game still check remote auth?`
`17:36.31`	`Chestal`	`my passfiles are empty`
`17:36.34`	`Chestal`	`remote logins work`
`17:36.57`	`Chestal`	`hmm, that's not quite true, two people are in the passfile with *,hmm`
`17:37.01`	`JeffM2501`	`but are your userfiles full?`
`17:37.09`	`Chestal`	`not sure, what's so special about them`
`17:37.12`	`Chestal`	`yes`
`17:37.16`	`JeffM2501`	`ok then that's good`
`17:37.29`	`JeffM2501`	`you could add a simple switch to never pull remote groups`
`17:37.36`	`DTRemenak`	`Chestal: I was just explaining how the current system works, not that I think it's a good solution :)`
`17:37.47`	`DTRemenak`	`'cause it really isn't`
`17:38.08`	`DTRemenak`	`imho there should be separate local and remote groups files`
`17:38.32`	`Nidhoggr`	`DTRemenak: can you please apply patch 1102462 to CVS for me?! :)`
`17:39.42`	`Chestal`	`I also wonder whetehr it might be useful to have a non-public server use the global logins`
`17:39.46`	`DTRemenak`	`JeffM2501: why did you put in in feature requests not in patches?`
`17:39.54`	`Chestal`	`I don't think this can be done yet`
`17:39.56`	`JeffM2501`	`I did?`
`17:40.00`	`DTRemenak`	`yup`
`17:40.07`	`JeffM2501`	`cus I missed`
`17:40.11`	`JeffM2501`	`and they look the same`
`17:40.30`	`Nidhoggr`	`I put it in feature request this morning. :)`
`17:40.45`	`JeffM2501`	`ahh`
`17:40.48`	`Nidhoggr`	`oh, can you make multiple group moderators?`
`17:40.54`	`JeffM2501`	`no`
`17:40.57`	`Nidhoggr`	`bummer.`
`17:40.58`	`JeffM2501`	`well I dono`
`17:41.00`	`JeffM2501`	`maybe`
`17:41.03`	`JeffM2501`	`try it`
`17:42.58`	`JeffM2501`	`where would I put some data that I need to set in bzfs.cxx, and get in commands.cxx ?`
`17:43.17`	`JeffM2501`	`ahh I know what I'll do`
`17:46.34`	`Chestal`	`ehm, uhm, local passwords don't work anymore?`
`17:46.51`	`Chestal`	`at least they don't seem to get saved`
`17:47.10`	`JeffM2501`	`ohh yeah I'm 4, 4 here`
`17:47.18`	`Chestal`	`ah, my fault I guess, hehe,silly error`
`17:47.20`	`JeffM2501`	`DTRemenak, I use a clean cvs each time`
`17:47.46`	`DTRemenak`	`aww :)`
`17:49.27`	`*** join/#bzflag dax (~me@pD9E677FD.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`17:51.20`	`JeffM2501`	`Chestal, do you want a -disablelogins command line switch too?`
`17:52.26`	`JeffM2501`	`I have it set to auto-disable if you don't define any files`
`17:52.31`	`JeffM2501`	`so it'll be off by default`
`17:53.11`	`Chestal`	`what should disablelogins do?`
`17:53.17`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03chestal * 10bzflag/TODO: global logins need some though`
`17:53.29`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/ (man/bzfs.6s src/bzfs/CmdLineOptions.cxx): apply patch 1102462 from jeffm2501, -pidfile option`
`17:53.30`	`Chestal`	`grmpf, t missing`
`17:53.35`	`JeffM2501`	`register identify and the group commands all just fail`
`17:53.46`	`JeffM2501`	`they return "logins are disabled on this server"`
`17:53.53`	`Nidhoggr`	`thanks DTRemenak !!!`
`17:53.58`	`JeffM2501`	`basicly it puts it back in old -password mode`
`17:54.07`	`Chestal`	`JeffM2501: I am not sure what I want yet,there are a variety of issues`
`17:54.14`	`JeffM2501`	`k`
`17:54.23`	`Chestal`	`e.g. when I register locally with /register but that name alsoexists on bzbb`
`17:54.25`	`Chestal`	`etc. etc.`
`17:54.27`	`JeffM2501`	`well it dosn't make sense to allow logins if you haven't define anything that will use them`
`17:54.27`	`*** join/#bzflag Tupone (Tupone@84.222.137.63)`
`17:54.48`	`JeffM2501`	`that's why I'm auto turning them off in that case`
`17:54.59`	`Chestal`	`local logins or global logins, too?`
`17:55.00`	`JeffM2501`	`since right now it LOOKs like they work`
`17:55.19`	`JeffM2501`	`even for remote logins you need at least one file IIRC ( the users file )`
`17:55.23`	`DTRemenak`	`JeffM2501: they WILL work, but they're passive`
`17:55.31`	`DTRemenak`	`they won't persist from session to session`
`17:55.56`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah they will work, but since no users have groups, and no groups are defined, play is the same as if you didn't ID`
`17:55.59`	`DTRemenak`	`you can do /addgroup and all that from inside bzflag, without any external files at all`
`17:56.11`	`JeffM2501`	`but you can't set group perms`
`17:56.14`	`JeffM2501`	`so what's the point`
`17:56.21`	`DTRemenak`	`mm, I think you can`
`17:56.28`	`JeffM2501`	`I don't think so`
`17:56.36`	`JeffM2501`	`unless that was added later`
`17:56.42`	`orange`	`aren't there any implied default group permissions?`
`17:56.45`	`JeffM2501`	`I did not no realtime perm changes`
`17:56.52`	`JeffM2501`	`yes`
`17:57.08`	`orange`	`so assigning users to groups would at least get them those`
`17:57.13`	`orange`	`(even if they aren't permanent)`
`17:57.18`	`JeffM2501`	`but the default perms are the same as the reg perms`
`17:57.28`	`JeffM2501`	`everyone gets the default perms`
`17:57.31`	`JeffM2501`	`reg or unreg`
`17:57.35`	`orange`	`oh, I thought there was an implied ADMIN group`
`17:57.38`	`JeffM2501`	`yes`
`17:57.40`	`orange`	`with different perms`
`17:57.43`	`JeffM2501`	`yes`
`17:57.47`	`JeffM2501`	`but if you don't have a users file`
`17:57.55`	`JeffM2501`	`no users can be set to it`
`17:57.59`	`JeffM2501`	`since they arn't stored`
`17:58.09`	`JeffM2501`	`I guess you could do it just for that session`
`17:58.13`	`orange`	`well, I can't see a point in doing it, anyway, it's pathological`
`17:58.16`	`JeffM2501`	`same as giving out the -password`
`17:58.16`	`orange`	`but it could be done, yeah`
`17:58.28`	`DTRemenak`	`mm, you can show them but not set them`
`17:58.41`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah never did a set/remove interface`
`17:58.52`	`JeffM2501`	`it would be nice to do that with the spawn perm`
`17:58.54`	`JeffM2501`	`on leauge games`
`17:58.58`	`DTRemenak`	`yup`
`17:59.05`	`JeffM2501`	`when its' game time, have a ref give spawn to just team members`
`17:59.06`	`orange`	`there you go...`
`17:59.15`	`JeffM2501`	`but for that you'd have to have team groups`
`17:59.19`	`JeffM2501`	`so yo'd have a file :)`
`17:59.19`	`orange`	`that's a reason to have groups/permissions without permanent userdb`
`17:59.33`	`orange`	`but yeah, without a groupdb there'd be no point in that`
`17:59.35`	`JeffM2501`	`you'd want to have a groups file for that`
`17:59.47`	`JeffM2501`	`and if there is a groupDB it enables logins :)`
`17:59.51`	`JeffM2501`	`it's only if you have NO files`
`17:59.52`	`orange`	`other than temporarily granting admin (which is pathological) there's no point`
`17:59.58`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`18:00.09`	`JeffM2501`	`it's set to asume you have at least 1 file`
`18:00.20`	`JeffM2501`	`you can even jsut throw in a blank group file and it'll do it`
`18:00.26`	`JeffM2501`	`so it's not hard`
`18:03.56`	`JeffM2501`	`it's patch 1102490 if you want it`
`18:08.20`	`JeffM2501`	`DTRemenak, you should probably also not ask for the DEFAULT or REGISTERD groups, since it would be st00pid ( won't hurt )`
`18:08.57`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah, save on bandwidth if nothing else`
`18:09.01`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`18:09.21`	`JeffM2501`	`you going to do the -noglobalgroups option?`
`18:09.25`	`JeffM2501`	`or should I make another patch?`
`18:09.35`	`*** join/#bzflag DarthValou (~none@lsn-boi-catv-c114-p172.vtx.ch)`
`18:09.42`	`DTRemenak`	`neither. I'm working on an -allowedRemoteGroups`
`18:09.48`	`JeffM2501`	`ahh`
`18:09.52`	`JeffM2501`	`that would take care of it`
`18:10.03`	`JeffM2501`	`can you set NONE?`
`18:10.22`	`JeffM2501`	`or just do REGISTERED as the only one`
`18:10.26`	`JeffM2501`	`then that would do none`
`18:10.31`	`DTRemenak`	`mm, don't see any point. -allowedRemoteGroups VERIFIED would do it.`
`18:10.38`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`18:10.44`	`JeffM2501`	`same thing`
`18:10.52`	`JeffM2501`	`the group isn't called VERIFIED is it?`
`18:10.56`	`DTRemenak`	`it is`
`18:10.59`	`JeffM2501`	`thought it was registerd`
`18:11.02`	`JeffM2501`	`ohh well`
`18:11.03`	`JeffM2501`	`same thing`
`18:11.06`	`DTRemenak`	`REGISTERED means locally I think`
`18:11.12`	`JeffM2501`	`ahh`
`18:11.18`	`JeffM2501`	`fair nuf`
`18:11.33`	`DTRemenak`	`or else Tim just randomly changed it, which I suppose is possible.`
`18:11.35`	`JeffM2501`	`bit confusing then cus verified in the code is what gets set when you ID`
`18:12.01`	`DTRemenak`	`hm, he probably just randomly changed it then :)`
`18:12.09`	`DTRemenak`	`I have to admit, it's a better word for the job`
`18:12.24`	`DTRemenak`	`screws old groupdb files though`
`18:12.25`	`JeffM2501`	`well with global there are no unregistered users`
`18:12.30`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah`
`18:12.33`	`JeffM2501`	`so it's a difrent class of things`
`18:12.42`	`JeffM2501`	`every user is verified`
`18:12.49`	`JeffM2501`	`it realy should be the remotes DEFAULT`
`18:12.55`	`JeffM2501`	`but that also would screw with stuff`
`18:19.21`	`*** part/#bzflag DarthValou (~none@lsn-boi-catv-c114-p172.vtx.ch)`
`18:23.45`	`DTRemenak`	`ok, now the big question: as a default, do we want to allow all remote groups, or none?`
`18:24.41`	`DTRemenak`	`Chestal, JeffM2501?`
`18:25.30`	`JeffM2501`	`what perms do they get?`
`18:25.42`	`DTRemenak`	`whatever the groupdb file says they do`
`18:25.58`	`Chestal`	`so, one groupdb file now, but -allowed... option?`
`18:25.59`	`DTRemenak`	`allowing all would be current behavior if no -useremotegroups was specified`
`18:26.22`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah. -useRemoteGroup VERIFIED will get the behavior you want`
`18:26.28`	`DTRemenak`	`only using it for user auth`
`18:26.29`	`Tupone`	`current requirement for automake tool is? I guess 1.4, but learner broke it`
`18:26.33`	`Chestal`	`admin should probably be masked always still?`
`18:26.40`	`DTRemenak`	`ADMIN is hardcoded out`
`18:27.47`	`DTRemenak`	`but if you don't specify a -useRemoteGroup, should it use all the groups in the groups file, or only VERIFIED?`
`18:28.07`	`DTRemenak`	`I'm tempted to go for only VERIFIED myself`
`18:28.15`	`Chestal`	`might be better`
`18:28.26`	`DTRemenak`	`easier to code, and makes remote groups strictly opt-in rather than opt-out`
`18:28.43`	`DTRemenak`	`remote user auth is still always enabled`
`18:28.49`	`Chestal`	`I'm a bit uncertain because therereally are no global groups yet, so not sure what they would be used for`
`18:29.03`	`DTRemenak`	`there is one, TimRikerTest`
`18:29.09`	`Chestal`	`hmm :-)`
`18:29.17`	`DTRemenak`	`it's set up to be pseudoadmin on HiX`
`18:29.39`	`Chestal`	`so, VERIFIED and REGISTERED are two things?`
`18:29.44`	`DTRemenak`	`so he'd have to change his config to include -useRemoteGroups TIMRIKERTEST`
`18:30.04`	`DTRemenak`	`Chestal: I'm not sure. Use the Source :)`
`18:30.11`	`Chestal`	`could there be a need to allow an open set of remote groups?`
`18:30.28`	`DTRemenak`	`I don't think so. You still have to set them in your groupdb file`
`18:30.30`	`Chestal`	`could add a special syntax if really needed though, like -useRemoteGroups * or all`
`18:30.33`	`DTRemenak`	`for them to do any good`
`18:30.53`	`Chestal`	`k, then no for now`
`18:31.00`	`DTRemenak`	`ok`
`18:31.23`	`Chestal`	`what I just checked: if I login to my server without token, say server does not know me yet`
`18:31.29`	`Chestal`	`but bybb knows callsign`
`18:31.43`	`DTRemenak`	`yes`
`18:31.46`	`Chestal`	`bzfs will not ask list about me, so I don't get a -, this might be ok, not sure`
`18:31.53`	`Chestal`	`then I /register foo`
`18:31.59`	`Chestal`	`so user+pass is set locally`
`18:32.06`	`DTRemenak`	`eek, do you get a +?`
`18:32.19`	`Chestal`	`no, I get no indicator`
`18:32.26`	`DTRemenak`	`ah`
`18:32.30`	`Chestal`	`well, after the identify I gdt a + of course`
`18:32.45`	`DTRemenak`	`right - but you're not necessarily the same Chestal`
`18:32.47`	`jpa-`	`global login is bad, btw, since someone could set up a evil server to gather people's passwords`
`18:32.59`	`Chestal`	`if I come back with global login, I'll be chestal for the server, too`
`18:33.03`	`DTRemenak`	`jpa-: passwords are never sent to the individual servers`
`18:33.09`	`jpa-`	`DTRemenak: oh`
`18:33.12`	`jpa-`	`DTRemenak: good`
`18:33.19`	`DTRemenak`	`you'd have to set up a man in the middle attack on the list server`
`18:33.41`	`jpa-`	`well, it is possible too for the server side`
`18:33.56`	`jpa-`	`oh hmm`
`18:34.09`	`jpa-`	`the passwords don't go that way :P`
`18:34.21`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah, passwords are only sent to the list server`
`18:34.44`	`DTRemenak`	`list server returns a token to the client, client sends token to game server, game server asks the list server if it's good or bad`
`18:34.44`	`jpa-`	`ok, i trust that people can't steal my identity :)`
`18:35.04`	`jpa-`	`token ring!`
`18:35.16`	`DTRemenak`	`there are two ways they could: man in the middle (tough to set up), or rooting the list server (we'd know)`
`18:35.19`	`Chestal`	`more liek a token triagnle ;-)`
`18:36.07`	`Chestal`	`the token is not bound to a specific server, though?`
`18:36.11`	`DTRemenak`	`no`
`18:36.15`	`Chestal`	`this would allow a server admin a possible attack`
`18:36.20`	`DTRemenak`	`but it's only good for one use`
`18:36.25`	`DTRemenak`	`what do you mean?`
`18:36.35`	`Chestal`	`well, my server gets your token`
`18:36.38`	`DTRemenak`	`ok`
`18:36.40`	`Chestal`	`I don't ask the lsit server`
`18:36.46`	`Chestal`	`but use it to connect to anothe server`
`18:36.46`	`DTRemenak`	`ok`
`18:37.04`	`jpa-`	`Chestal: a triangle is also a ring, but with 3 divisions only (maybe trepan has passed by complaining about divisions ,)`
`18:37.10`	`DTRemenak`	`yup, could be done once for every time I tried to log into your server`
`18:38.01`	`jpa-`	`is there timeout for tokens?`
`18:38.11`	`Chestal`	`and what do you think about the case I outlined above? local/global user?`
`18:38.12`	`DTRemenak`	`jpa-: I believe there is, you'd have to check the php`
`18:38.35`	`Chestal`	`maybe token should be bound to client IP?`
`18:38.36`	`jpa-`	`DTRemenak: ok, i don't need to know :)`
`18:38.43`	`DTRemenak`	`Chestal: it may already be`
`18:38.51`	`DTRemenak`	`it's not server-specific though`
`18:38.58`	`Chestal`	`either way would work`
`18:39.31`	`Chestal`	`need some food, brb`
`18:39.40`	`DTRemenak`	`hm, no, it isn't bound to the client ip, since it's relayed through the server`
`18:39.50`	`DTRemenak`	`and the client IP is not sent to the list server`
`18:40.07`	`DTRemenak`	`it would be a rather complicated change, but might be worth it`
`18:42.17`	`Tupone`	`kerberos system is better! But was demoted :(`
`18:42.52`	`jpa-`	`activedirectory!`
`18:43.09`	`Nidhoggr`	`might be scary :)`
`18:43.19`	`Tupone`	`DTRemenak: have you tried to build after learner changes, on unix ?`
`18:43.25`	`DTRemenak`	`Tupone: no`
`18:43.36`	`DTRemenak`	`did he break something again?`
`18:43.40`	`Tupone`	`he broke it, with automake 1.4`
`18:43.53`	`DTRemenak`	`hmph`
`18:44.31`	`jpa-`	`"did he break something again?" <- i like that :)`
`18:44.50`	`Tupone`	`we should fix it or constraint the automake to be "dunno what"`
`18:45.32`	`DTRemenak`	`should fix it, yes`
`18:53.13`	`jpa-`	`DTRemenak: no need to hope, everything you do works`
`18:53.20`	`DTRemenak`	`hahaha`
`18:53.32`	`DTRemenak`	`that's what you think :)`
`18:54.53`	`*** join/#bzflag sgk284 (~sgk284@ws50.cs.drexel.edu)`
`18:55.12`	`*** part/#bzflag Thumper_ (~bernt@CPE000102d0fe24-CM0012256ecbde.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`18:55.32`	`*** join/#bzflag Thumper_ (~bernt@CPE000102d0fe24-CM0012256ecbde.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`19:02.21`	`JeffM2501`	`DTRemenak, you should probably build 3ds2bzw and include it in the windows install`
`19:02.33`	`DTRemenak`	`ick`
`19:02.49`	`DTRemenak`	`I don't want to mess with lib3ds, thanks anyway`
`19:02.53`	`JeffM2501`	`heh`
`19:03.13`	`DTRemenak`	`hopefully it'll be obsolete soon enough anyway`
`19:03.43`	`JeffM2501`	`he working the blender?`
`19:03.51`	`jpa-`	`povray/moray2bzw would be more useful`
`19:03.57`	`JeffM2501`	`obj`
`19:04.01`	`jpa-`	`or either blender`
`19:05.52`	`*** join/#bzflag creeperz (creeperz@70-57-235-119.sxfl.qwest.net)`
`19:06.37`	`Nidhoggr`	`JeffM2501: I'm finally getting proper spam/virus stuff installed on the hosting server.`
`19:07.51`	`JeffM2501`	`cool`
`19:08.29`	`jpa-`	`you mean, like spamming applications and viruses? :)`
`19:08.34`	`Nidhoggr`	`I'm actually paying someone to install it.`
`19:08.38`	`Nidhoggr`	`yeah, that's it!`
`19:08.40`	`Nidhoggr`	`:)`
`19:08.58`	`Nidhoggr`	`someone wrote a package that incorporates right into the web interface on the cobalts.`
`19:09.08`	`Nidhoggr`	`allows users to control white/black listing, etc.`
`19:09.48`	`JeffM2501`	`cool`
`19:10.12`	`Nidhoggr`	`and it's cheap... 100 bucks for the install`
`19:15.11`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/ (4 files in 2 dirs):`
`19:15.11`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: add -useremotegroups option to limit the fetching of remote groups from the list server to strictly those that the game server is interested in, rather than requesting information on all defined groups.`
`19:15.14`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: this ought to work but I haven't tested it (and may have screwed up the manpages) since I'm in windows right now.`
`19:15.27`	`DTRemenak`	`Chestal: that should make you happier`
`19:15.56`	`Nidhoggr`	`DTRemenak: feel free to use your shell on the server to do testing.`
`19:16.15`	`Nidhoggr`	`just pick a port number and let me know, so there are no conflicts.`
`19:16.35`	`DTRemenak`	`Nidhoggr: I'm thinking about trying to set up my servers to use the central groups anyway`
`19:16.38`	`*** join/#bzflag sgk284 (~sgk284@ws51.cs.drexel.edu)`
`19:16.41`	`Nidhoggr`	`cool`
`19:16.45`	`Nidhoggr`	`which servers are yours?`
`19:16.47`	`*** join/#bzflag t-s (~ts@pD95631E6.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`19:16.52`	`sgk284`	`hello`
`19:16.57`	`DTRemenak`	`the ones labeled "DTRemenak's test server" :)`
`19:17.00`	`Nidhoggr`	`hi sgk284`
`19:17.04`	`Nidhoggr`	`ooooh. :)`
`19:17.14`	`DTRemenak`	`they run on a K6-200 FreeBSD-4 box under my desk`
`19:17.39`	`Nidhoggr`	`nice. :)`
`19:18.01`	`DTRemenak`	`I'll probably end up taking all but one down post-release to avoid overwhelming the poor box :)`
`19:18.11`	`Nidhoggr`	`the olympic server have my a headache... something turns on and off and made my video unhappy.`
`19:18.18`	`Nidhoggr`	`aah.`
`19:18.28`	`sgk284`	`lets say in theory one were to implement a feature that allows flagged messages (i.e. ones that word filter detects as having bad words) to just be ignored and never sent to the other players, and it were to be enabled from the command line, what would be a good name for the option?`
`19:18.36`	`*** part/#bzflag t-s (~ts@pD95631E6.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`19:19.01`	`Nidhoggr`	`hm.`
`19:19.09`	`sgk284`	`Nidhoggr, that olympics server is generated by a script, everytime all the palyers leave a new one is randomly made`
`19:19.17`	`DTRemenak`	`it should probably begin with -filter like all the other filter options`
`19:19.24`	`DTRemenak`	`-filterBlockHits or something`
`19:19.28`	`*** join/#bzflag t-s (~ts@pD95631E6.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`19:19.29`	`Nidhoggr`	`-filterSquelch`
`19:19.39`	`Nidhoggr`	`cuz Squelch ijfts`
`19:19.46`	`DTRemenak`	`but I don't think such a feature would be a good idea, quite honestly :(`
`19:19.53`	`sgk284`	`really why?`
`19:20.03`	`DTRemenak`	`too many false positives`
`19:20.07`	`DTRemenak`	`like certain lagstats results`
`19:20.09`	`Nidhoggr`	`nod`
`19:20.13`	`sgk284`	`there was some discussion about it last night, learner seemed to like it`
`19:20.27`	`sgk284`	`yea fals positives i guess could be a problem`
`19:20.56`	`sgk284`	`what is in lagstats that is setting off the filter?`
`19:21.03`	`*** join/#bzflag \|zongo\| (~zongo@lsn-boi-catv-c114-p172.vtx.ch)`
`19:21.17`	`DTRemenak`	`[74 +- 1] is the one that I caught`
`19:21.29`	`sgk284`	`heh thats wierd`
`19:21.31`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah`
`19:21.52`	`sgk284`	`why would lagstats even be filtered in the first place?`
`19:21.55`	`*** join/#bzflag Legoguy (~Lego\|Desk@adsl-67-36-182-162.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net)`
`19:22.11`	`DTRemenak`	`sgk284: outbound message`
`19:22.21`	`sgk284`	`k`
`19:22.31`	`DTRemenak`	`it doesn't discriminate`
`19:22.59`	`DTRemenak`	`it _might_ be a good idea to not filter messages with a source of ServerPlayer, but I don't know what possible holes that could leave`
`19:23.26`	`DTRemenak`	`it would have to be looked into rather thourgouhly first`
`19:23.30`	`sgk284`	`hmm... yea`
`19:26.30`	`DTRemenak`	`JeffM2501: are _all_ bzbb groups automatically user groups on the list server, or does some flag have to be set?`
`19:26.49`	`DTRemenak`	`like could I set perms on the developers group and expect them to work?`
`19:27.25`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar (~wegstar@adsl-67-123-172-203.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`19:27.47`	`JeffM2501`	`huh?`
`19:27.51`	`JeffM2501`	`devs arn't a group`
`19:28.06`	`DTRemenak`	`http://my.bzflag.org/bb/groupcp.php?g=1235`
`19:28.19`	`JeffM2501`	`ohh yeah`
`19:28.20`	`DTRemenak`	`"develoeprs are everywhere"`
`19:28.21`	`JeffM2501`	`forgot I did that`
`19:28.27`	`DTRemenak`	`you're the freaking owner :)`
`19:28.28`	`JeffM2501`	`well yeah you could set perms on it`
`19:28.37`	`DTRemenak`	`ok`
`19:28.39`	`Chestal`	`hmm, osem commit emails seem to be missing`
`19:28.52`	`JeffM2501`	`no group is "special"`
`19:28.56`	`DTRemenak`	`coolio`
`19:29.13`	`DTRemenak`	`and it's case-insensitive, right?`
`19:32.13`	`*** join/#bzflag joeshrimp (~445fa4a4@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`19:32.21`	`joeshrimp`	`hi`
`19:32.59`	`joeshrimp`	`I need some help here: has anybody ever calculated how much bandwidth per second a normal, 12-person server uses?`
`19:33.17`	`JeffM2501`	`maybe....`
`19:33.24`	`JeffM2501`	`the code in bzfs is`
`19:33.28`	`Nidhoggr`	`how many shots?`
`19:33.30`	`JeffM2501`	`bbl`
`19:33.43`	`joeshrimp`	`let's try five-eight`
`19:33.49`	`joeshrimp`	`(five is fine)`
`19:34.29`	`Chestal`	`DTRemenak: developers as a remote group seems to work`
`19:34.34`	`Nidhoggr`	`secretplace has 10 shots and uses about 1mbps when it has about 12 people on it, unless you have it optimized in the vars, and then it uses between 500kbps to 750kbps.`
`19:34.58`	`joeshrimp`	`okay`
`19:35.05`	`Nidhoggr`	`so 5 shots would be better. probably under 500kbps optimized.`
`19:35.09`	`Nidhoggr`	`when it's full.`
`19:35.09`	`DTRemenak`	`Chestal: cool`
`19:35.12`	`joeshrimp`	`ok cool :)`
`19:35.15`	`joeshrimp`	`and is there any easy way to check the CPU usage of BZFS.exe?`
`19:35.19`	`DTRemenak`	`Chestal: does my code work though? :)`
`19:35.25`	`Nidhoggr`	`using windows? dunno.`
`19:35.32`	`Nidhoggr`	`secretplace runs on debian.`
`19:35.39`	`joeshrimp`	`okay`
`19:35.43`	`Nidhoggr`	`bzfs is not very resource intensive.`
`19:35.49`	`DTRemenak`	`joeshrimp: the processes tab on task manager will tell you`
`19:35.58`	`Chestal`	`DTRemenak: come and join the 217.* server please`
`19:35.59`	`sgk284`	`joeshrimp, i think jsut hit ctrl-alt-del an go into processes`
`19:36.04`	`DTRemenak`	`ok`
`19:36.34`	`Nidhoggr`	`I caught grumbler's server taking 99% of the cpu once. :)`
`19:36.49`	`joeshrimp`	`hehehe`
`19:36.59`	`joeshrimp`	`okay, thanks sgk284`
`19:37.01`	`Chestal`	`DTRemenak: ok, joni again please`
`19:37.07`	`joeshrimp`	`I figured but thought it might report incorrectly`
`19:37.20`	`joeshrimp`	`that's nice to know Nidhoggr`
`19:37.33`	`joeshrimp`	`I'm trying to run on a Dual Xeon 2.8Ghz, 2GB ECC RAM server spec`
`19:37.40`	`joeshrimp`	`but it's remote and shared`
`19:37.43`	`Nidhoggr`	`it normally doesn't do that... it's just that it had a problem.`
`19:38.00`	`joeshrimp`	`any way to prevent such an overload?`
`19:38.10`	`joeshrimp`	`or such a problem that has such an overload?`
`19:38.12`	`sgk284`	`kill it? :)`
`19:38.16`	`joeshrimp`	`yeah :)`
`19:38.31`	`joeshrimp`	`well, I can't be online forever to monitor it`
`19:38.41`	`joeshrimp`	`but I guess I could just reset it every 15 minutes`
`19:38.47`	`joeshrimp`	`(well, maybe every hour)`
`19:38.52`	`sgk284`	`it shouldnt ever get too bad`
`19:38.53`	`joeshrimp`	`(it would bug people to lose their score) :)`
`19:38.54`	`joeshrimp`	`ok`
`19:38.56`	`sgk284`	`i wouldnt worry about it`
`19:39.25`	`joeshrimp`	`so though bzfs.exe doesn't use many resources`
`19:39.42`	`joeshrimp`	`would a computer like what I said possibly have any problems`
`19:39.51`	`joeshrimp`	`allocating so much bandwidth per second`
`19:39.56`	`joeshrimp`	`if it were shared?`
`19:40.25`	`DTRemenak`	`bzfs should never take 99% cpu, if it does, it's a bug. and I think the two most common infinite-loop bugs have been fixed.`
`19:40.32`	`sgk284`	`err how many are sharing it?`
`19:40.44`	`joeshrimp`	`I don't know...it was kind of a messy question :)`
`19:40.45`	`DTRemenak`	`and it'll take at most 50% on a dual-proc setup, it's only single-threaded`
`19:41.13`	`sgk284`	`wow... finally a good reason for a single threaded server ;)`
`19:41.25`	`DTRemenak`	`joeshrimp: outside of the infinite-loop case, bzfs takes very marginal resources`
`19:41.33`	`DTRemenak`	`I run it on a K6-200 with 96 mb of ram`
`19:41.34`	`Chestal`	`DTRemenak: I still haven't got the commit emails of your changes, only for the ADMIN change`
`19:41.49`	`Chestal`	`DTRemenak: did you get them? Would liek to know whether it's a local problem`
`19:41.53`	`DTRemenak`	`well, I run five instances on a K6-200 with 96 mb of ram`
`19:41.54`	`joeshrimp`	`well, the connection is a OC-192, OC-3`
`19:42.00`	`joeshrimp`	`ahhh, okay`
`19:42.07`	`DTRemenak`	`Chestal: I don't subscribe to -commit`
`19:42.07`	`Chestal`	`K6-200, that#s a fast server for bzfs`
`19:42.14`	`joeshrimp`	`ok cool :)`
`19:42.17`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah, and Chestal is even braver :)`
`19:42.49`	`Chestal`	`the newer servers do more stuff, though, so they are boudn to eat a few more resources, but hopefully not too much`
`19:42.55`	`DTRemenak`	`it does suck some bandwidth, mostly outbound`
`19:42.57`	`joeshrimp`	`ok`
`19:43.23`	`DTRemenak`	`you won't have any trouble at all on an optical line :)`
`19:43.53`	`joeshrimp`	`ok good :)`
`19:44.32`	`DTRemenak`	`most of the people who have bandwidth problems on their servers are using cable modems, asynchronous with 300k upload or something`
`19:44.37`	`sgk284`	`DTRemenak, is the outbound traffic compressed in any fashion?`
`19:44.47`	`DTRemenak`	`sgk284: only maps are compressed`
`19:45.02`	`DTRemenak`	`compression takes cpu time`
`19:45.13`	`sgk284`	`how hard do you think itd be to implement some form of streaming compression on it? (as an option)`
`19:45.17`	`DTRemenak`	`most people who run servers 24/7 have fast connections and slow cpus if anything`
`19:45.22`	`joeshrimp`	`ok`
`19:45.35`	`joeshrimp`	`on your K6-200, how much of the processor is eaten up with one instance?`
`19:45.41`	`joeshrimp`	`(approximate, if you know)`
`19:46.08`	`DTRemenak`	`with no players on, all five instances together take up 0.2%`
`19:46.28`	`DTRemenak`	`highest load I've had is 8 players, about 20% cpu`
`19:46.52`	`DTRemenak`	`depending on the options you pick, that will vary`
`19:47.14`	`DTRemenak`	`if you don't turn on the word filter it's negligible`
`19:47.27`	`joeshrimp`	`ok`
`19:47.52`	`DTRemenak`	`and with 2.8 ghz, even _with_ the wordfilter it'll be negligible :)`
`19:47.55`	`joeshrimp`	`and the K6-200 is how many mhz/ghz, again?`
`19:47.58`	`DTRemenak`	`200`
`19:48.00`	`DTRemenak`	`mhz`
`19:48.04`	`joeshrimp`	`ahh okay :)`
`19:48.05`	`DTRemenak`	`that's what the 200 means`
`19:48.08`	`joeshrimp`	`then it should be no problem`
`19:48.15`	`joeshrimp`	`okay is newb`
`19:48.24`	`DTRemenak`	`no prob, gotta start sometime`
`19:48.27`	`joeshrimp`	`yep`
`19:48.38`	`joeshrimp`	`well thanks for all the help; I think that answered all my questions!`
`19:48.54`	`joeshrimp`	`hope to have one up soon, now that I found a hosting deal :)`
`19:49.12`	`DTRemenak`	`cool. if you have any more, this is a good place to come, or http://my.bzflag.org/bb/`
`19:49.24`	`joeshrimp`	`thanks`
`19:51.33`	`*** part/#bzflag t-s (~ts@pD95631E6.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`19:53.42`	`*** join/#bzflag ep (~ep@ip68-97-124-161.ok.ok.cox.net)`
`19:53.54`	`Chestal`	`is there need to have a public server without global logins?`
`19:54.03`	`Chestal`	`and non-public server with?`
`19:54.10`	`DTRemenak`	`Chestal: I can't think of any reason for the first`
`19:54.31`	`DTRemenak`	`non-public server with might be possible - like match servers`
`19:54.37`	`Chestal`	`DTRemenak: for the first: if you want to have local ids, they can kind of conflict with the global ones`
`19:54.41`	`*** join/#bzflag My[DSMBR (~muahahah@3ffe:80ee:26ba:0:0:0:0:1)`
`19:54.43`	`*** part/#bzflag wegstar (~wegstar@adsl-67-123-172-203.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`19:54.54`	`*** join/#bzflag orchid (orchid@orchid.user)`
`19:54.56`	`sgk284`	`what if a server admin wants to sue his own set of users rather than bzbb's?`
`19:55.13`	`sgk284`	`i.e. administrator may be taken on bzbb but a server admin may want to use that on his server`
`19:55.14`	`DTRemenak`	`Chestal: how would the ids conflict?`
`19:56.04`	`DTRemenak`	`probably a good idea to have the option anyway, but I don't think anyone would use it`
`19:56.13`	`Chestal`	`DTRemenak: well, conflict in the sense that the callsign is the id, so I can have a regisetred callsign on a server with password, but I woudl also be able to global-login with that id without local pass`
`19:56.17`	`DTRemenak`	`sgk284: most people do "So-and-so-Admin" anyway`
`19:56.41`	`Chestal`	`DTRemenak: and I think /register must be first, so if global login is first, no way to set a local password then`
`19:57.03`	`DTRemenak`	`Chestal: that's what ensures identity though`
`19:57.22`	`Chestal`	`DTRemenak: yes, but when used the other way around, it's strange`
`19:57.52`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah, that's true. maybe should set up some sort of conflict-trapping system`
`19:58.00`	`Chestal`	`if I am careful and not set password in bz menu and login to my new server, I can set a local password, but only then`
`19:58.19`	`Chestal`	`on the other hand, a local auth migh tbe useful in case of list server failure`
`19:58.29`	`Chestal`	`but coudl also use different callsign for that, as an emergency`
`19:59.03`	`DTRemenak`	`you'd also have -passwd if the list server failed`
`19:59.25`	`DTRemenak`	`server op could log in with that, unregister users and add them back to groups manually`
`20:00.40`	`DTRemenak`	`./configure: line 3110: OBJC: command not found`
`20:00.45`	`DTRemenak`	`LEARNER! :)`
`20:00.52`	`*** join/#bzflag orchid (orchid@orchid.user)`
`20:01.12`	`Chestal`	`I fear he has no idea how to fi it and still get the needed functinality on Mac`
`20:01.16`	`Chestal`	`fix it`
`20:01.18`	`*** join/#bzflag TimRiker (~timr@TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`20:01.19`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ`
`20:01.20`	`DTRemenak`	`ahh`
`20:01.35`	`DTRemenak`	`well, at least it doesn't abort configure`
`20:01.47`	`Chestal`	`DTRemenak: match servers was also my idea for non-public and global logins`
`20:02.19`	`Chestal`	`TimRiker: hi, I _think_ there is a security problem with the token system which might have to be addressed`
`20:02.20`	`DTRemenak`	`TimRiker: is there a way for a server to get global logins without ADDing itself?`
`20:02.45`	`DTRemenak`	`heh, betcha didn't guess you'd get pounced like this :)`
`20:04.10`	`Chestal`	`maybe logins with password should not allow global logins? not sure`
`20:04.21`	`Chestal`	`I see problems with either way`
`20:05.37`	`Chestal`	`I would like to go with global logins only, not sure if everyone is registered n bzbb or wants to, only important for admins anway as long as I don't force registration`
`20:06.03`	`DTRemenak`	`is there a way to disable /register?`
`20:06.28`	`Chestal`	`I don't think so`
`20:06.37`	`DTRemenak`	`maybe we need like a -auth={none\|local\|global\|both} switch`
`20:06.43`	`Chestal`	`could not give a passwd file, but that would only partly work`
`20:12.04`	`*** join/#bzflag occy (~october@ip24-252-197-99.mc.at.cox.net)`
`20:14.27`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03chestal * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/ListServerConnection.cxx: no need for c_str()`
`20:19.10`	`Tupone`	`DTRemenak: DxJoystick.cxx is compiled even if you don't use? Like when you don't have MS undistributable include files?`
`20:20.21`	`Tupone`	`USE_DINPUT ... where is set ?`
`20:21.40`	`DTRemenak`	`Tupone: it's a kind of convoluted system`
`20:21.57`	`Tupone`	`looking for BROKEN_DINPUT now`
`20:22.05`	`DTRemenak`	`that's a configure test`
`20:22.39`	`DTRemenak`	`almost all mingw setups will trigger BROKEN_DINPUT`
`20:23.02`	`Tupone`	`mine wont ... but I'm trying x`
`20:23.56`	`DTRemenak`	`hm, you mean you have a working DX7+ setup on mingw?`
`20:24.36`	`DTRemenak`	`ohh, what's host_os set to?`
`20:24.43`	`Tupone`	`I'm on linux`
`20:24.48`	`DTRemenak`	`configure skips checking it if it's not on mingw`
`20:25.02`	`Tupone`	`well host=mingw32`
`20:25.12`	`DTRemenak`	`if test $host_os = mingw32; then`
`20:25.34`	`Tupone`	`#define BROKEN_DINPUT 1 in config.h`
`20:25.38`	`DTRemenak`	`ok`
`20:25.46`	`DTRemenak`	`then DXJoystick should skip most of itself`
`20:26.13`	`Tupone`	`the include of dinuput is before test`
`20:26.24`	`DTRemenak`	`ahh`
`20:26.32`	`Tupone`	`on DXJoystick.h`
`20:26.39`	`*** join/#bzflag ep (~ep@ip68-97-124-161.ok.ok.cox.net)`
`20:26.57`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah, the BROKEN_DINPUT section should be before that`
`20:27.14`	`Tupone`	`you fix :)`
`20:27.18`	`Tupone`	`I test`
`20:27.19`	`DTRemenak`	`but dinput.h has to be before the DIRECTINPUT_HEADER_VERSION test`
`20:27.21`	`DTRemenak`	`ok :)`
`20:29.25`	`ep`	`i just did a slight upgrade of my kernel, now bzflag gives me -- Xlib: extension "GLX" missing on display ":0.0". What happened?`
`20:29.35`	`Tupone`	`you have nvidia`
`20:29.40`	`ep`	`yes`
`20:29.58`	`Tupone`	`and you forget to emerge or update, whatever, nvidia-kernel`
`20:30.03`	`DTRemenak`	`wow, this stuff is a mess :)`
`20:30.14`	`Grumbler`	`nvidia and linux are a pain`
`20:30.52`	`Grumbler`	`every kernel update is another rebuild of the nvidia stuff.......wish they would fix that up`
`20:31.21`	`Tupone`	`mainly is just a license problem`
`20:31.41`	`ep`	`i didnt forget but as a mandrake user (and a newibie) I use urpmi kernel to install -- didn't see a nvidia kernel listed on the choices.`
`20:32.09`	`Tupone`	`how did you get nvidia drivers last time?`
`20:32.32`	`ep`	`last time i followed the steps on nvidia 's web site`
`20:32.43`	`ep`	`it was a pain of course`
`20:32.45`	`Grumbler`	`you'll have to do them again`
`20:32.47`	`Tupone`	`follows them again`
`20:32.51`	`ep`	`how fun`
`20:33.03`	`Grumbler`	`hence the nvidia is a pain comment`
`20:33.04`	`Tupone`	`well, no need to update xfree/xorg conf`
`20:33.05`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/src/platform/ (DXJoystick.h DXJoystick.cxx): do a more extensive check to be sure we can use DXJoystick. should fix linux->mingw cross-compile`
`20:33.12`	`Thumper_`	`I'm using ATI Radeon 9000 and get weird colour changes with depth buffer on - using the open source drivers in X 4.3 - Do you have any idea if the proprietary drivers for X 4.3 from ATI will help?`
`20:33.44`	`Grumbler`	`tupone, didnt you send me a link to a place that has some sort of hack that will allow kernel updates without having to rebuild the core?`
`20:33.48`	`DTRemenak`	`Tupone: that should do it`
`20:34.09`	`Grumbler`	`someone did at one time`
`20:34.20`	`Tupone`	`possibly, but if, I forget anything`
`20:34.28`	`Grumbler`	`ditto`
`20:42.50`	`*** join/#bzflag wizart (~wizart@dsl-084-057-009-164.arcor-ip.net)`
`20:46.10`	`Tupone`	`DTRemenak: that compiles`
`20:46.17`	`DTRemenak`	`cool :)`
`20:46.29`	`Tupone`	`Now trying to build :/`
`20:47.42`	`orchid`	`cl`
`20:48.10`	`Tupone`	`cl ?`
`20:48.21`	`DTRemenak`	`st!`
`20:48.29`	`orchid`	`sw!`
`20:48.34`	`DTRemenak`	`gm!`
`20:48.36`	`Thumper_`	`G`
`20:49.06`	`*** part/#bzflag Tupone (Tupone@84.222.137.63)`
`20:49.19`	`*** join/#bzflag Tupone (Tupone@84.222.137.63)`
`20:57.11`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-2 (~CIA@to.je.spocco.com)`
`21:00.59`	`TimRiker`	`DTRemenak: there's not at present, but that would be reasonable to add. There is a CHECKTOKENS command on the list server. bzfs just needs to call it.`
`21:12.33`	`orchid`	`configure.in:55: error: possibly undefined macro: _AM_DEPENDENCIES this is a new error to me on autogen`
`21:13.04`	`orchid`	`hm, please use m4_pattern_allow`
`21:14.49`	`*** join/#bzflag Matjaz (~bu@AS-97-114.dial-up.siol.net)`
`21:14.49`	`JeffM2501`	`Nidhoggr, found out a bit more on the ram on the mini, it dosnt' take all kinds of dimms, the compatable ones will run about 150$`
`21:15.04`	`Grumbler`	`orchid, just comment that line out, learner was working on it`
`21:15.13`	`*** join/#bzflag mmu_man (revol@ATuileries-117-1-3-73.w193-251.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`21:15.16`	`orchid`	`ah`
`21:15.36`	`Grumbler`	`its one of those mac compatible thingies`
`21:15.51`	`JeffM2501`	`no the cheap cheap suff dosn't work in a lot of PC mobos too`
`21:16.01`	`JeffM2501`	`it's like a high/low density thing`
`21:18.05`	`Nidhoggr`	`JeffM2501: that's still pretty good.`
`21:18.25`	`Nidhoggr`	`and in 2 months they'll be even cheaper. :)`
`21:18.48`	`Nidhoggr`	`for the time being I can't afford to pay attention until after april.`
`21:18.57`	`Nidhoggr`	`budget is super tight.`
`21:19.10`	`Nidhoggr`	`but after april, I am getting one of those macs.`
`21:19.18`	`orchid`	`Grumbler: config.status: error: cannot find input file: BZFlag.xcode/Makefile.in I need to comment something else out here too it looks like?`
`21:19.37`	`orchid`	`xcode sounds suspiciously macish to me`
`21:19.41`	`Nidhoggr`	`yep`
`21:19.49`	`Nidhoggr`	`xcode is mac-ish.`
`21:20.38`	`Nidhoggr`	`JeffM2501: is there any way to search for new users on bzbb? like the people who have registered in the last 24 hours sort of thing?`
`21:25.25`	`Pimpinella`	`must a classes' static attribute be initialized before it's first use?`
`21:26.07`	`Pimpinella`	`hm, seems so`
`21:41.57`	`Chestal`	`http://esamultimedia.esa.int/images/cassini_huygens/huygens_land/landing_01_H.jpg`
`21:43.25`	`Pimpinella`	`cvs up reports conflicts between repository and my local (modified) copy. how can i find out about them?`
`21:44.37`	`Tupone`	`what you want to find?`
`21:44.45`	`Chestal`	`Pimpinell: in the file, there will be sections within <<<<<<<<<<<<<<`
`21:44.50`	`Tupone`	`you get a C when you update`
`21:45.09`	`Tupone`	`IIRC just 3 "<"`
`21:45.23`	`Tupone`	`dunno for sure`
`21:45.44`	`Pimpinella`	`trying to find that`
`21:46.32`	`Chestal`	`yes, better to only search for 3 of them, I am not sure myself`
`21:46.42`	`Chestal`	`it#s rather obvious when you found it, though`
`21:47.10`	`Pimpinella`	`7 :)`
`21:57.15`	`Pimpinella`	`solved, ty`
`22:05.03`	`DTRemenak`	`orchid: do cvs update -d`
`22:05.19`	`DTRemenak`	`it's a new directory`
`22:05.56`	`orchid`	`DTRemenak: it built now, Tupone told me the same thnks`
`22:06.14`	`DTRemenak`	`ok :)`
`22:08.01`	`*** join/#bzflag sgk284 (~stevek@AC85239F.ipt.aol.com)`
`22:10.37`	`Nidhoggr`	`sgk284: how goes the patch coding? :)`
`22:11.22`	`JeffM2501`	`DTRemenak, how do you feel a bout a "maping" section in bzbb?`
`22:11.58`	`DTRemenak`	`JeffM2501: that's not really my area, but I don't think it would be a bad idea`
`22:12.46`	`JeffM2501`	`I know, but you have a good feel on the comunity`
`22:12.53`	`JeffM2501`	`and a lot of map questions have come up recently`
`22:13.07`	`JeffM2501`	`I know the ducatiwanabe guy made his own "map makers" forum`
`22:13.19`	`DTRemenak`	`tried to. afaik it doesn't actually work`
`22:13.22`	`JeffM2501`	`but I'd think if there is that much interest then won't be bad to be a forumset on bzbb`
`22:13.25`	`JeffM2501`	`heh`
`22:13.32`	`JeffM2501`	`hence why I think it should be integrated :)`
`22:13.36`	`DTRemenak`	`yup :)`
`22:13.48`	`DTRemenak`	`I dunno what subforums you'd have though`
`22:13.58`	`DTRemenak`	`I guess announcements/new maps, help,...`
`22:14.02`	`JeffM2501`	`figure just one on, map help, map releases/screenshots, and one on maps in progress`
`22:14.10`	`JeffM2501`	`just those 2`
`22:14.15`	`JeffM2501`	`sorry 3`
`22:14.28`	`JeffM2501`	`"preview and pimping" :)`
`22:14.32`	`DTRemenak`	`"maps in progress" just asking for hundreds of posts, eh ? :)`
`22:14.48`	`JeffM2501`	`they seem to like to compare digital wangs in the map world`
`22:14.50`	`JeffM2501`	`so why not`
`22:14.54`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03atupone * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/ (7 files): Rule1: common.h be the first. Rule2: Body (.cxx) should include interface header first`
`22:14.57`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah, I guess`
`22:16.34`	`Grumbler`	`digital wangs.....oy, now that forum topic title might draw more than one would expect ;)`
`22:16.58`	`Grumbler`	`orchid, sry, i had to step away, looks like learner did more since the initial error....looks like you are good now`
`22:17.18`	`sgk284`	`Nidhoggr, hey uh which patch? the whitelist?`
`22:17.21`	`Nidhoggr`	`yep`
`22:17.45`	`sgk284`	`err... umm....`
`22:17.49`	`Nidhoggr`	`I just realized something else about the whitelist for 2.0.`
`22:18.09`	`sgk284`	`2.0 hasnt been released yet, can we be pretty certain bzfs.cxx won't change much by release time?`
`22:18.17`	`sgk284`	`whatd you realize?`
`22:18.23`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/DEVINFO: split header order stuff into its own paragraph to make it more obvious, fix grammar`
`22:18.39`	`DTRemenak`	`throwing away cards!`
`22:18.42`	`sgk284`	`i'm going to get on the patch tonight and tomorrow, during the week i dont have much time anymore`
`22:18.55`	`Nidhoggr`	`the php script will have to be able to authenticate with new scheme to database.`
`22:19.16`	`sgk284`	`yea i dont know if that will even be possible... so i have a few ideas floating around`
`22:19.21`	`DTRemenak`	`it's not that hard to do, it's an easy interface`
`22:19.39`	`sgk284`	`i havent looked at the new auth scheme yet`
`22:19.44`	`Nidhoggr`	`nod`
`22:19.46`	`sgk284`	`DTRemenak, i'll trust you on that`
`22:19.50`	`sgk284`	`:)`
`22:19.55`	`Nidhoggr`	`we'll worry about that part later.`
`22:20.05`	`DTRemenak`	`basically it's an http get request, then parse it for the token`
`22:20.12`	`DTRemenak`	`if you get a token, the username/password is valid`
`22:20.20`	`sgk284`	`oh okay, it shouldnt be a problem at all then`
`22:20.25`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah`
`22:20.33`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar (~wegstar@adsl-67-123-172-203.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`22:21.02`	`DTRemenak`	`probably easier than matching with the local db actually :)`
`22:21.11`	`Grumbler`	`JeffM2501, i think a couple more subsections under maps might be prudent........maybe released/problems/initial/.......i think the new format is going to start a few people building maps.....hopefully dutchs site will help`
`22:21.12`	`sgk284`	`yea i was jsut thinking that heh:)`
`22:21.44`	`Nidhoggr`	`getting a good number of people signing up for bzbb accounts`
`22:21.47`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah I think there will be many questions`
`22:21.52`	`JeffM2501`	`I am doing them now`
`22:21.58`	`Grumbler`	`cool beans`
`22:22.02`	`sgk284`	`who server is bzbb running on?`
`22:22.10`	`sgk284`	`s/who/who's`
`22:22.10`	`JeffM2501`	`the same one as the list server`
`22:22.11`	`Nidhoggr`	`guess`
`22:22.12`	`Nidhoggr`	`:)`
`22:22.13`	`sgk284`	`okay`
`22:22.15`	`sgk284`	`:)`
`22:23.39`	`sgk284`	`<random thought> i'm getting a frog tonight! :) </random thought>`
`22:23.52`	`Nidhoggr`	`a frog?!`
`22:23.54`	`Nidhoggr`	`what kind?`
`22:23.59`	`sgk284`	`lol yes`
`22:24.04`	`sgk284`	`i dunno but tis cool looking`
`22:24.07`	`sgk284`	`its*`
`22:24.58`	`sgk284`	`it was my girlfriends idea... she said we need a pet together and i didn't want to get anything high maintenance :) she didn't want a frog but hey.. i thought it was neat :)`
`22:25.28`	`Nidhoggr`	`:)`
`22:25.43`	`sgk284`	`heh`
`22:25.55`	`Nidhoggr`	`frogs are cool`
`22:25.58`	`Nidhoggr`	`so are newts`
`22:26.02`	`sgk284`	`indeed`
`22:26.24`	`sgk284`	`and salamanders`
`22:26.27`	`Nidhoggr`	`yep`
`22:26.37`	`Nidhoggr`	`aquatic frogs are cool, too.`
`22:27.00`	`Nidhoggr`	`just empty the container every day or so, fill it with tap water, add declorinator, and put frog back in.`
`22:27.07`	`retro`	`A witch turned me into a newt once!`
`22:27.08`	`sgk284`	`i hope cats and/or dogs dont eat frogs :)`
`22:27.12`	`retro`	`i got better....`
`22:27.16`	`sgk284`	`heh nice one retro`
`22:27.21`	`Nidhoggr`	`a friend of mine kept one in a clear glass pitcher in her kitchen for a while. :)`
`22:27.39`	`sgk284`	`now everytime you play bzflag i'm gonna picture a newt sitting behind a computer`
`22:27.41`	`retro`	`did this pitcher happen to mate to a blender?`
`22:27.48`	`Nidhoggr`	`nope`
`22:27.52`	`retro`	`sgk284, hahaha`
`22:27.55`	`Nidhoggr`	`that'd be kinda icky.`
`22:28.28`	`retro`	`Nid, a similar joke was in the Farside once. Two fish swimming in a blender pitcher, and one says, "the suspense is killing me"`
`22:28.36`	`*** join/#bzflag wizart (~wizart@dsl-084-057-009-164.arcor-ip.net)`
`22:28.42`	`Nidhoggr`	`hahahahaha`
`22:29.06`	`retro`	`sgk284, perhaps I should play as retro_newt tonight? :)`
`22:29.10`	`sgk284`	`heh`
`22:30.05`	`sgk284`	`okay well i'm off to enjoy a wild and crazy friday night... and of course get a frog`
`22:30.26`	`Nidhoggr`	`have fun!`
`22:30.41`	`Nidhoggr`	`:)`
`22:32.45`	`*** join/#bzflag desyre (~PircBot@adsl-67-123-172-203.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`22:34.06`	`Tupone`	`dnl in front ?`
`22:34.36`	`learner`	`heh`
`22:34.37`	`*** join/#bzflag redsoxfan90 (~18dae8d5@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`22:34.43`	`Tupone`	`:)`
`22:34.45`	`learner`	`<PROTECTED>`
`22:34.49`	`learner`	`;)`
`22:35.04`	`redsoxfan90`	`hi all`
`22:35.38`	`retro`	`Hey, does anyone have the map from the old freedomlives bzflag server? I always liked that map.`
`22:35.51`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/configure.in: revome the hack of _AM_DEPENDENCIES for OBJC`
`22:36.43`	`Grumbler`	`learner, commenting it out worked for me`
`22:38.13`	`Chestal`	`someone care for a quick test?`
`22:38.29`	`Grumbler`	`test what, compile?`
`22:38.34`	`learner`	`mathematics?`
`22:39.54`	`Chestal`	`can you run client with -list http://my.bzflag.org/test.php and connect to 217.* server?`
`22:40.35`	`Grumbler`	`not i....only have an old client :(`
`22:40.48`	`Chestal`	`old like 1.10 old?`
`22:41.10`	`Grumbler`	`1.11.36 old....the last DTR stuff`
`22:41.16`	`Chestal`	`good enough`
`22:41.19`	`Grumbler`	`ok`
`22:41.20`	`Chestal`	`I think`
`22:42.34`	`wegstar`	`is`
`22:42.34`	`wegstar`	`BZFlag 2.0 Release Candidate build - 1.11.36 still the latest one?`
`22:43.43`	`Chestal`	`tupone is not in dev group on bzbb`
`22:43.45`	`Nidhoggr`	`they might like it and they'd never release.`
`22:43.53`	`Noodle-sensei`	`Nidhoggr: hmm, true`
`22:43.59`	`Nidhoggr`	`:)`
`22:44.21`	`Noodle-sensei`	`i know i'd like poking them...`
`22:45.05`	`Nidhoggr`	`hahahahahaha`
`22:45.15`	`DTRemenak`	`1.11.36 is still the latest build. same protocol for .34-.37`
`22:45.26`	`wegstar`	`ok...`
`22:47.14`	`Chestal`	`who acn add people to bzbb dev group?`
`22:47.33`	`JeffM2501`	`I can`
`22:47.35`	`JeffM2501`	`nid can`
`22:47.35`	`Pimpinella`	`Pat`
`22:47.37`	`JeffM2501`	`learner can`
`22:47.42`	`JeffM2501`	`pat is dead`
`22:47.45`	`JeffM2501`	`tim can`
`22:47.50`	`Pimpinella`	`?`
`22:47.51`	`Pimpinella`	`ic`
`22:47.55`	`Chestal`	`can someone then please add Tupone?`
`22:47.56`	`learner`	`poor pat`
`22:47.57`	`JeffM2501`	`sure`
`22:48.04`	`JeffM2501`	`pat was a bastage`
`22:48.20`	`Nidhoggr`	`:(`
`22:48.24`	`learner`	`the 221'st of his kind`
`22:48.26`	`JeffM2501`	`it's a pheonic thing`
`22:48.30`	`JeffM2501`	`phenix thing`
`22:48.41`	`Grumbler`	`chestal, i am hanging on find servers`
`22:48.44`	`JeffM2501`	`you allways come back difrent thru the seige peroulus`
`22:48.55`	`learner`	`from a long line of patlaborish kingdomains`
`22:49.15`	`JeffM2501`	`tupy is added`
`22:49.29`	`JeffM2501`	`dynastys have to be overthrown`
`22:49.31`	`Chestal`	`thanks`
`22:49.34`	`JeffM2501`	`sure`
`22:49.39`	`JeffM2501`	`usualy with names that make more sense`
`22:49.48`	`TimRiker`	`.37 is up as debian packages.`
`22:49.59`	`Nidhoggr`	`I've always been fond of calling people by their real first names.`
`22:50.17`	`Pimpinella`	`can somebody help me in the use of URLManager?`
`22:50.18`	`JeffM2501`	`noone knew what a labor was anyway`
`22:50.24`	`Nidhoggr`	`:)`
`22:50.30`	`JeffM2501`	`give it a URL,it'll go get it`
`22:50.34`	`Grumbler`	`and it doesnt like to be killed......`
`22:50.41`	`JeffM2501`	`it can't be killed`
`22:50.48`	`JeffM2501`	`tho you can set the timeout externaly now`
`22:50.55`	`Grumbler`	`ah`
`22:50.59`	`Grumbler`	`that is probably the issue`
`22:51.08`	`JeffM2501`	`it's 15 seconds now`
`22:51.15`	`JeffM2501`	`via config you can set it`
`22:51.15`	`Pimpinella`	`JeffM2501: what about &data, can remain empty?`
`22:51.22`	`Grumbler`	`err, then it wasnt the timeout`
`22:51.31`	`Grumbler`	`it was hanging for minutes`
`22:51.46`	`JeffM2501`	`IIRC it gets filled with the data from the URL`
`22:51.52`	`JeffM2501`	`it'll manage it self`
`22:51.59`	`JeffM2501`	`are you chaning IT? or just using it?`
`22:52.12`	`Pimpinella`	`using`
`22:52.18`	`JeffM2501`	`then you shouldn't care`
`22:52.23`	`JeffM2501`	`just do what motd does`
`22:52.27`	`JeffM2501`	`it's the simplest use of it`
`22:52.31`	`DTRemenak`	`heh!`
`22:52.33`	`JeffM2501`	`pat wrote it`
`22:52.37`	`JeffM2501`	`so it's all wacky`
`22:52.39`	`DTRemenak`	`you obviously haven't seen my motd changes :)`
`22:52.45`	`Pimpinella`	`hehe`
`22:52.55`	`DTRemenak`	`actually, it might still use URLManager on one line`
`22:52.58`	`JeffM2501`	`well yeah I know t's more complex, but the call to get the data is the same`
`22:53.02`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah`
`22:53.04`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah it should`
`22:53.07`	`JeffM2501`	`the parsing AFTER`
`22:53.09`	`JeffM2501`	`is cooky`
`22:53.11`	`DTRemenak`	`hehe`
`22:53.23`	`DTRemenak`	`actually it exploits TextUtils::tokenize`
`22:53.31`	`DTRemenak`	`another patlabor function iirc`
`22:54.23`	`JeffM2501`	`I didn't write that`
`22:54.37`	`Pimpinella`	`MessageOfTheDay::getURL, is it that what i should looking for?`
`22:54.55`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah`
`22:55.06`	`DTRemenak`	`JeffM2501: you didn't? I thought you were the tokenizing-master`
`22:55.25`	`JeffM2501`	`I use it a lot`
`22:55.28`	`JeffM2501`	`I didn't write it`
`22:55.38`	`JeffM2501`	`I use it to parse`
`22:55.46`	`JeffM2501`	`all over the place`
`22:55.54`	`DTRemenak`	`cool`
`22:56.04`	`JeffM2501`	`TimRiker, is there a way to backup the current bb code into CVS?`
`22:56.10`	`JeffM2501`	`or is it allready in CVS?`
`22:57.37`	`*** join/#bzflag PointBlank (PointBlank@dialup-4.240.105.191.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net)`
`23:00.00`	`TimRiker`	`JeffM2501: the bb code is not. it should get added sometime.`
`23:01.18`	`JeffM2501`	`then I'm doing a local backup`
`23:01.47`	`JeffM2501`	`doing a mod that hasn't been redone`
`23:03.34`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/ (include/URLManager.h src/common/URLManager.cxx): ws`
`23:03.49`	`JeffM2501`	`ohno DTRemenak has the WS disease`
`23:03.55`	`JeffM2501`	`somone get the hammer`
`23:04.02`	`DTRemenak`	`I couldn't read the darn thing :)`
`23:04.14`	`JeffM2501`	`A likely story`
`23:04.16`	`DTRemenak`	`you used like...normal indent settings`
`23:04.20`	`JeffM2501`	`so you gonna do my other patch too?`
`23:04.28`	`DTRemenak`	`do what?`
`23:04.38`	`JeffM2501`	`apply it`
`23:04.42`	`DTRemenak`	`what patch?`
`23:05.34`	`DTRemenak`	`oh, that patch`
`23:05.40`	`JeffM2501`	`1102490`
`23:06.01`	`DTRemenak`	`I dunno if I like it or not, I'll let someone else decide`
`23:06.35`	`JeffM2501`	`just make your group thing overide it`
`23:06.47`	`wegstar`	`JeffM2051: about my server problem 2 or so days ago... You connected with your client and saw the "Right click or press "i" to start" screen, but couldn't "start", right?`
`23:06.54`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`23:07.04`	`wegstar`	`ah`
`23:07.06`	`wegstar`	`i see`
`23:07.11`	`wegstar`	`you had to be reigstered...`
`23:07.14`	`JeffM2501`	`there is little to no usefullness wheny ou don't set any group perms, have no user database, and no local users.`
`23:07.17`	`JeffM2501`	`ahh`
`23:07.18`	`JeffM2501`	`heh`
`23:07.25`	`wegstar`	`is there some way to disable it?`
`23:07.29`	`JeffM2501`	`perms`
`23:07.42`	`wegstar`	`in the conf file...`
`23:07.42`	`JeffM2501`	`or are you using -requireidentify ?`
`23:07.51`	`wegstar`	`nope`
`23:08.08`	`JeffM2501`	`then it's perms on your groups`
`23:08.33`	`DTRemenak`	`JeffM2501: it's the idea of introducing additional complications which quash what "little to no usefulness" exists just to make doing something stupid a little bit harder that bothers me :)`
`23:09.10`	`JeffM2501`	`it just sucks that the default is allowing registration when it does nothing`
`23:09.17`	`DTRemenak`	`oh, crap, I have a class right now. bbl`
`23:09.21`	`JeffM2501`	`you can get old behavor just by throwing a blank groups file in there`
`23:09.27`	`JeffM2501`	`for those that may want it`
`23:09.29`	`JeffM2501`	`heh`
`23:09.40`	`wegstar`	`wait.. i have no such thing as -requireidentify in my conf..`
`23:09.46`	`JeffM2501`	`ok`
`23:09.50`	`JeffM2501`	`then it's in your groups`
`23:09.54`	`JeffM2501`	`NOT your conf`
`23:10.03`	`wegstar`	`and so I must...`
`23:10.09`	`JeffM2501`	`edit your groups file`
`23:10.16`	`wegstar`	`found in...`
`23:10.24`	`JeffM2501`	`I dono`
`23:10.28`	`JeffM2501`	`where ever you told it to be`
`23:10.32`	`JeffM2501`	`with -groupdb`
`23:10.40`	`JeffM2501`	`external file locations are up to you`
`23:10.43`	`wegstar`	`I commented that out...`
`23:10.53`	`wegstar`	`in the conf`
`23:10.53`	`JeffM2501`	`then it should not require any form of ID`
`23:11.10`	`wegstar`	`hmm..`
`23:11.38`	`*** join/#bzflag doughecka_ (~Doug@adsl-18-113-209.sdf.bellsouth.net)`
`23:11.42`	`wegstar`	`but i do have -passdb and -userdb...`
`23:11.45`	`JeffM2501`	`since the default groups allow unreg`
`23:11.51`	`JeffM2501`	`it's the group perms that do it`
`23:13.52`	`wegstar`	`so I should...`
`23:14.07`	`JeffM2501`	`find out what's making you require ID`
`23:15.34`	`JeffM2501`	`honestly for you, I'd got to the simplest config you can`
`23:15.41`	`JeffM2501`	`just to work out your login issues`
`23:15.46`	`JeffM2501`	`then add more options later`
`23:15.57`	`wegstar`	`ah.. i found this thingy .."NADER`
`23:15.57`	`wegstar`	`DEFAULT VERIFIED`
`23:15.57`	`wegstar`	`"`
`23:16.10`	`JeffM2501`	`that's your user DB`
`23:16.41`	`JeffM2501`	`a group would say somethign that had the registered group have the requireidentify perm`
`23:17.28`	`wegstar`	`shouldn't it be "Default registered"?`
`23:17.45`	`JeffM2501`	`no`
`23:17.48`	`Grumbler`	`i guess in version three the next logical step is to have a sortable join list`
`23:17.48`	`JeffM2501`	`that's a USER`
`23:17.50`	`JeffM2501`	`not a group`
`23:17.55`	`JeffM2501`	`verified is a valid group`
`23:18.00`	`wegstar`	`ok`
`23:18.06`	`JeffM2501`	`anyone in the users file is assumed to be REGISTERED`
`23:18.18`	`JeffM2501`	`cus thats how they got into the file in the first place`
`23:18.28`	`JeffM2501`	`verified means they have an account on bzbb`
`23:18.42`	`JeffM2501`	`and you can have users who are registered but not verfied`
`23:18.49`	`JeffM2501`	`ala local to you only`
`23:18.57`	`JeffM2501`	`I'd turn all that crap off`
`23:19.01`	`JeffM2501`	`all options`
`23:19.04`	`JeffM2501`	`except public`
`23:19.05`	`wegstar`	`ok`
`23:19.14`	`JeffM2501`	`and work out your connection issues`
`23:19.24`	`wegstar`	`connection issues?`
`23:19.24`	`JeffM2501`	`then you know nothing else is geting in the way`
`23:19.31`	`JeffM2501`	`your login write error`
`23:19.37`	`wegstar`	`its fine now`
`23:19.40`	`JeffM2501`	`oh`
`23:19.43`	`JeffM2501`	`see you didn't say that :)`
`23:19.51`	`JeffM2501`	`what did you change?`
`23:20.02`	`wegstar`	`nothing ... just reinstalled it bzflag`
`23:20.11`	`JeffM2501`	`so you had a borked install`
`23:20.19`	`wegstar`	`probably..`
`23:20.19`	`JeffM2501`	`reinstalling != changeing nothing :)`
`23:20.32`	`JeffM2501`	`it means changing everything`
`23:20.37`	`wegstar`	`right... :)`
`23:23.56`	`wegstar`	`i just commented the userdb and all that other stuff out.. it should work now... right?`
`23:25.01`	`JeffM2501`	`do you want to do registration?`
`23:25.32`	`wegstar`	`nope...why? is it good?`
`23:25.49`	`JeffM2501`	`it depends on how you want to run your server`
`23:25.54`	`JeffM2501`	`and that's up to you`
`23:25.59`	`JeffM2501`	`how do you admin?`
`23:26.09`	`JeffM2501`	`with just /password and a single admin?`
`23:26.10`	`wegstar`	`type the server password...`
`23:26.16`	`JeffM2501`	`ok then your simple admin`
`23:26.27`	`JeffM2501`	`if you have no reason to give others perms, or stuff`
`23:26.27`	`wegstar`	`is there a better way?`
`23:26.31`	`wegstar`	`oh`
`23:26.34`	`JeffM2501`	`tehre is a difrent way`
`23:26.41`	`JeffM2501`	`you could do it secretplace style`
`23:26.47`	`JeffM2501`	`where you register and identify`
`23:26.59`	`JeffM2501`	`that's the way that works with bzbb`
`23:26.59`	`wegstar`	`oh`
`23:27.03`	`JeffM2501`	`and all that stuff`
`23:29.40`	`wegstar`	`is there a page showing how to use "all that stuff"?`
`23:30.20`	`JeffM2501`	`man bzfs`
`23:30.28`	`wegstar`	`ok`
`23:30.31`	`JeffM2501`	`and sample groups file in misc`
`23:30.37`	`JeffM2501`	`of the source release`
`23:30.45`	`wegstar`	`ok...`
`23:33.49`	`*** join/#bzflag blast007 (~root@dialup-4.158.219.112.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net)`
`23:33.59`	`wegstar`	`?`
`23:34.11`	`JeffM2501`	`root`
`23:34.17`	`wegstar`	`ah`
`23:34.18`	`blast007`	`heh`
`23:37.59`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03chestal * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/ListServerConnection.cxx: isolate callsign correctly in bad token reply from list server, so we can send a message to the player`
`23:38.20`	`wegstar`	`heh`
`23:38.23`	`Chestal`	`I didn't do it!`
`23:38.49`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-2 (~CIA@to.je.spocco.com)`
`23:46.43`	`TimRiker`	`Tupone: you testing the new token ip checking with test.php?`
`23:47.12`	`Tupone`	`I dunno what I did. I just join Chestal`
`23:47.35`	`Chestal`	`he did :-)`
`23:48.02`	`Chestal`	`I would be ready to commit the change in bzfs`
`23:48.10`	`Chestal`	`as soon as the list server gets changed`
`23:52.06`	`TimRiker`	`k. I'm happy with the list server now.`
`23:52.55`	`Chestal`	`yes, let's hope peopel with strange IP setups are rare and don't use bzflag :-)`
`23:53.32`	`TimRiker`	`k. moved it to bzfls.php and committed`
`23:53.37`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03timriker * 10db/bzfls.php: store and check client IP when checking tokens`
`23:53.56`	`learner`	`woo hoo.. i think i found an alternative to the objc error`
`23:54.06`	`Chestal`	`a different error? ;-)`
`23:54.12`	`learner`	`need someone to test and tell me it all works great unquestionably`
`23:54.22`	`Chestal`	`me, me!`
`23:54.26`	`learner`	`hehe`
`23:54.45`	`TimRiker`	`Chestal: soon we'll hear about it if they aren't rare.`
`23:55.29`	`Chestal`	`TimRiker: new bzfls running?`
`23:55.41`	`learner`	`~bzflist`
`23:56.09`	`TimRiker`	`Chestal: yes, and test.php is gone.`
`23:56.49`	`Chestal`	`ok`
`23:56.55`	`Tupone`	`TimRiker: we should put on a paper the requirement for the auto-tools, libcurl, libsdl, etc. If current debian stable is not more a must we could upgrade. I'm talking after 1st release`
`23:57.20`	`Tupone`	`version number I mean`
`23:57.42`	`TimRiker`	`Tupone: nod. wiki page would work.`
`23:58.18`	`TimRiker`	`Chestal: committing the bzfs change?`
`23:58.22`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03chestal * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/ListServerConnection.cxx: bzfs asks list server to check whether token and client IP match`
`23:58.26`	`TimRiker`	`hehe`
`23:58.37`	`Tupone`	`e.g. I'm cross compiling linux -> windows and a new autoconf version help`

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