irclog2html for #bzflag on 20041227

`00:28.16`	`*** join/#bzflag Noodleman (~tuckerm@12-202-135-41.client.insightBB.com)`
`00:33.14`	`*** join/#bzflag bz0468 (~447f78aa@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`01:08.10`	`*** join/#bzflag bz0751 (~447f78aa@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`01:09.20`	`*** join/#bzflag bz2411 (~447f78aa@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`01:16.51`	`*** join/#bzflag wizart (~wizart@dsl-084-057-003-101.arcor-ip.net)`
`01:36.34`	`*** join/#bzflag Tupone_ (Tupone@84.222.139.104)`
`01:38.05`	`*** join/#bzflag lan56 (lan56@dialup-4.232.30.138.Dial1.LosAngeles1.Level3.net)`
`01:52.33`	`lan56`	`I am`
`01:52.39`	`SportChick`	`wow! hiya lan56`
`01:52.45`	`SportChick`	`~lan56++`
`01:52.45`	`Tupone`	`hi SportChick`
`01:52.46`	`lan56`	`hey`
`01:52.49`	`SportChick`	`that's just for being here`
`01:52.56`	`SportChick`	`wow! hiya tupone and blast`
`01:52.58`	`lan56`	`thank you :)`
`01:53.01`	`SportChick`	`~tupone++`
`01:53.05`	`SportChick`	`~blast007++`
`01:53.08`	`blast007`	`heh`
`01:53.12`	`SportChick`	`~karma tupone`
`01:53.12`	`ibot`	`tupone has karma of 50`
`01:53.13`	`Tupone`	`;)`
`01:53.15`	`SportChick`	`cool!`
`01:53.19`	`blast007`	`nice`
`01:53.20`	`SportChick`	`~karma blast007`
`01:53.20`	`ibot`	`blast007 has karma of 8`
`01:53.26`	`SportChick`	`~blast007`
`01:53.30`	`SportChick`	`~karma lan56`
`01:53.30`	`ibot`	`lan56 has karma of 11`
`01:53.39`	`SportChick`	`~blast007++`
`01:53.45`	`SportChick`	`~karma blast007`
`01:53.45`	`ibot`	`blast007 has karma of 9`
`01:53.47`	`lan56`	`hmm, went up like 5 since I last checked`
`01:53.55`	`SportChick`	`~blast007++`
`01:53.58`	`SportChick`	`there, that's better`
`01:54.06`	`SportChick`	`lan:heh`
`01:54.17`	`SportChick`	`~tupone++`
`01:54.20`	`SportChick`	`~lan56++`
`01:54.24`	`SportChick`	`you guys need more`
`01:54.39`	`SportChick`	`so how was your christmas, everyone?`
`01:54.49`	`Tupone`	`~sportchick++`
`01:54.51`	`SportChick`	`awww`
`01:54.52`	`SportChick`	`heh`
`01:54.52`	`lan56`	`~sportchick+52`
`01:54.55`	`blast007`	`was good :)`
`01:54.59`	`lan56`	`wish that actually added 52 :)`
`01:55.01`	`SportChick`	`hehe - I don't think that works, lan`
`01:55.04`	`SportChick`	`:)`
`01:55.07`	`lan56`	`~sportchick++`
`01:55.11`	`SportChick`	`great, blast! what did you do?`
`01:55.11`	`lan56`	`good enough :)`
`01:55.17`	`SportChick`	`~lan56++`
`01:55.26`	`SportChick`	`~blast007++`
`01:55.28`	`SportChick`	`~tupone++`
`01:55.36`	`Tupone`	`blush`
`01:55.40`	`SportChick`	`~karma sportchick`
`01:55.40`	`ibot`	`sportchick has karma of 32`
`01:55.41`	`amathis`	`heh`
`01:55.41`	`SportChick`	`wow`
`01:55.45`	`blast007`	`went to see my mom's side of the family, and then hung out at home and wrote code ;)`
`01:55.47`	`SportChick`	`that's way more than I deserve`
`01:55.47`	`amathis`	`such a giving season.`
`01:55.50`	`SportChick`	`oooo amathis! hiya`
`01:55.53`	`SportChick`	`~amathis++`
`01:55.56`	`amathis`	`heh`
`01:55.58`	`amathis`	`:)`
`01:56.06`	`SportChick`	`blast007: hehe sounds fun`
`01:56.11`	`amathis`	`~SportChick++`
`01:56.24`	`SportChick`	`our day went great until we made a trip to the emergency room, thereby missiing christmas dinner`
`01:56.37`	`blast007`	`:(`
`01:56.47`	`amathis`	`0.0`
`01:56.50`	`amathis`	`wha wha what!`
`01:56.58`	`lan56`	`:\`
`01:57.09`	`SportChick`	`hubby's mom was really sick -chest pains. But she's okay - she has bronchitis & pluracy`
`01:57.22`	`SportChick`	`a few drugs can handle that`
`01:57.26`	`SportChick`	`~tupone++`
`01:57.31`	`SportChick`	`quick - up his while he's gone`
`01:57.36`	`SportChick`	`~tupone++`
`01:57.43`	`SportChick`	`(do it in secret!)`
`01:58.17`	`SportChick`	`~amathis++`
`01:58.21`	`blast007`	`heh`
`01:58.21`	`blast007`	`~tupone++`
`01:58.27`	`SportChick`	`~blast007++`
`01:58.32`	`blast007`	`~sportchick++`
`01:58.32`	`SportChick`	`~lan56++`
`01:58.35`	`blast007`	`~amathis++`
`01:58.35`	`SportChick`	`~tupone++`
`01:58.47`	`SportChick`	`~tupone++`
`01:58.49`	`blast007`	`;)`
`01:58.50`	`SportChick`	`~lan56++`
`01:58.53`	`SportChick`	`~blast007++`
`01:58.54`	`lan56`	`~sportchick++`
`01:58.58`	`SportChick`	`~amathis++`
`01:58.58`	`lan56`	`~tupone++`
`01:59.01`	`lan56`	`~blast007++`
`01:59.04`	`SportChick`	`who else can we bolster?`
`01:59.06`	`lan56`	`~amathis++`
`01:59.08`	`SportChick`	`~karma learner`
`01:59.08`	`ibot`	`learner has karma of 48`
`01:59.12`	`SportChick`	`~learner++`
`01:59.17`	`SportChick`	`~karma brlcad`
`01:59.17`	`ibot`	`brlcad has karma of 26`
`01:59.22`	`SportChick`	`~brlcad++`
`01:59.27`	`SportChick`	`~karma nidhoggr`
`01:59.27`	`ibot`	`nidhoggr has karma of 32`
`01:59.30`	`amathis`	`~lan56++`
`01:59.36`	`amathis`	`~Nidhoggr++`
`01:59.40`	`amathis`	`~SportChick++`
`01:59.45`	`amathis`	`~blast007++`
`01:59.49`	`amathis`	`there`
`01:59.52`	`amathis`	`I am done ^_6`
`01:59.54`	`SportChick`	`~nidhoggr++`
`01:59.58`	`lan56`	`brb`
`02:00.00`	`blast007`	`~lan56++`
`02:00.00`	`SportChick`	`heh~! good job amathis`
`02:00.10`	`SportChick`	`~lan56++`
`02:00.35`	`SportChick`	`~edini++`
`02:00.41`	`SportChick`	`~Chestal++`
`02:00.48`	`SportChick`	`~cosmos++`
`02:00.53`	`SportChick`	`~cods++`
`02:01.02`	`SportChick`	`~fiberchunks++`
`02:01.50`	`SportChick`	`~scanline++`
`02:02.17`	`SportChick`	`~pimpinella++`
`02:02.30`	`purple_cow`	`heh`
`02:04.58`	`SportChick`	`oh, alright!`
`02:05.02`	`SportChick`	`~purple_cow++`
`02:05.04`	`SportChick`	`:)`
`02:05.12`	`amathis`	`:P`
`02:16.05`	`*** join/#bzflag Aribeth (~Aribeth@dsl081-067-057.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`02:16.22`	`*** join/#bzflag PrezKennedy (~Matthew@pcp035019pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)`
`02:38.28`	`*** join/#bzflag MeBigFatGuy (dave@balt-209-150-116-132.dynamic-dial.qis.net)`
`02:38.35`	`PrezKennedy`	`darn script kiddies are irritating`
`02:38.46`	`necrobunny`	`o,o?`
`02:38.51`	`necrobunny`	`PrezKennedy: what are they doing?`
`02:39.03`	`PrezKennedy`	`trying to use php exploits`
`02:39.08`	`necrobunny`	`heh`
`02:39.09`	`blast007`	`:/`
`02:40.10`	`PrezKennedy`	`i already forwarded the info to the system admin`
`02:40.36`	`necrobunny`	`*`
`02:40.39`	`JBdiGriz`	`<PROTECTED>`
`02:40.39`	`necrobunny`	`oof`
`02:40.59`	`necrobunny`	`make sure you have your tin-foil hat on..`
`02:41.13`	`PrezKennedy`	`its probably a 14 year old`
`02:41.24`	`PrezKennedy`	`i saw the other site they were trying to use in the exploit`
`02:41.40`	`necrobunny`	`what was the exploit?`
`02:41.42`	`necrobunny`	`SQL related?`
`02:42.58`	`necrobunny`	`THE KIDDIES GOT HIM!!!`
`02:43.00`	`necrobunny`	`OMFP!`
`02:43.06`	`*** join/#bzflag PrezKennedy (~Matthew@pcp035019pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)`
`02:43.10`	`necrobunny`	`they Dos'd him!`
`02:43.11`	`necrobunny`	`oh`
`02:43.13`	`necrobunny`	`phew`
`02:43.14`	`necrobunny`	`:P`
`02:43.40`	`PrezKennedy`	`eh its too long`
`02:43.43`	`PrezKennedy`	`but theyre running unix commands in the URL`
`02:43.51`	`necrobunny`	`eh...`
`02:44.05`	`necrobunny`	`heh`
`02:44.52`	`necrobunny`	`PrezKennedy: anything too serious would be under root perm's, no?`
`02:45.26`	`PrezKennedy`	`im not very worried about it`
`02:45.41`	`necrobunny`	`it isn't like it is a windows box :P`
`02:48.24`	`PrezKennedy`	`yeah but people attacking my website irritates me anyways`
`02:48.31`	`necrobunny`	`yep`
`02:48.46`	`necrobunny`	`heh`
`02:48.47`	`necrobunny`	`I wonder..`
`02:48.55`	`necrobunny`	`if you could get unix commands across..`
`02:48.56`	`necrobunny`	`:P`
`02:49.09`	`necrobunny`	`you could wget a bunch of illegal music`
`02:49.11`	`necrobunny`	`and then..`
`02:49.18`	`necrobunny`	`replace index.html to show em'`
`02:49.25`	`necrobunny`	`and then nmap fbi.gov rapidly`
`02:49.29`	`blast007`	`hehe`
`02:49.30`	`necrobunny`	`and watch fbi find the site`
`02:49.34`	`necrobunny`	`hehe`
`02:49.37`	`blast007`	`riaa ;)`
`02:50.19`	`necrobunny`	`heh`
`02:50.35`	`blast007`	`example of kiddie hacking: http://my.bzflag.org/bb/files/`
`02:50.58`	`blast007`	`replaced index files`
`02:51.20`	`necrobunny`	`hah`
`02:51.25`	`necrobunny`	`I wonder how they did it`
`02:51.34`	`blast007`	`think that was an Apache exploit`
`02:51.39`	`necrobunny`	`I would like to know, since we need to make suire php2press is safe`
`02:51.56`	`blast007`	`yeah, fairly sure it wasn't php related`
`02:56.37`	`PrezKennedy`	`maybe it was apache related`
`02:58.01`	`cosmos`	`ç[3~[3~[3~`
`03:37.59`	`*** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@2002:45a6:8672:0:0:0:0:1)`
`03:44.42`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar (~anonymous@adsl-64-175-249-72.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`04:01.34`	`*** join/#bzflag DTRemenak-K6 (0@host-226-158.dialup.innercite.com)`
`04:14.08`	`*** join/#bzflag SilverFox (SilverFox@68-116-47-254.or.charter.com)`
`04:24.21`	`SilverFox`	`if I want a box to be shootthrough, but NOT drivethrough, what options do I use?`
`04:25.12`	`blast007`	`shootthrough`
`04:26.12`	`blast007`	`I think "passable" makes it both shootthrough and drivethrough`
`04:26.37`	`blast007`	`but just using "shoothrough" should make it so you can't drive through it`
`04:34.07`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~JeffM@Patlabor221.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`04:35.13`	`*** join/#bzflag bz8963 (~502b7456@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`04:36.59`	`*** join/#bzflag bz8963 (~502b7456@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`04:37.22`	`bz8963`	`does anyone know why i can't login to hepcat.org?`
`04:37.32`	`bz8963`	`it was fine until a few days ago`
`04:37.48`	`bz8963`	`and the server does appear to be up and running`
`04:38.22`	`bz8963`	`hi, by the way!`
`04:39.58`	`*** join/#bzflag bz4186 (~502b7456@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`04:40.04`	`bz4186`	`hello?`
`04:40.14`	`Quol`	`hello`
`04:40.28`	`bz4186`	`could i ask a question, please?`
`04:41.13`	`Quol`	`sure`
`04:41.16`	`bz4186`	`until a few days ago i had no problem loggin into hepcat.org. now i just get the message "connection failed".`
`04:41.33`	`bz4186`	`the server is up and running and i've never been kicked off the server`
`04:41.45`	`JeffM2501`	`have you contacted the server admin?`
`04:41.52`	`bz4186`	`i don't know how to`
`04:41.58`	`SilverFox`	`I'm right here.`
`04:42.09`	`Quol`	`maybe a UDP problem??`
`04:42.11`	`SilverFox`	`you can also go to http://bzflag.hepcat.org`
`04:42.25`	`SilverFox`	`who do you play as?`
`04:42.35`	`bz4186`	`snickersnack`
`04:42.51`	`bz4186`	`i've tried other ids`
`04:42.58`	`bz4186`	`in case that was reserved`
`04:43.09`	`SilverFox`	`Can you msg me your IP address?`
`04:43.34`	`bz4186`	`yep, one moment please`
`04:44.09`	`bz4186`	`80.43.116.86`
`04:44.15`	`bz4186`	`but it changes`
`04:44.35`	`bz4186`	`these are dynamically assigned addresses by my internet provider, tiscali uk`
`04:47.01`	`bz4186`	`hello?`
`04:47.34`	`JeffM2501`	`he's probably looking into it, just chill`
`04:47.38`	`SilverFox`	`bz4186, I have sent you a private msg explaining.`
`04:47.51`	`bz4186`	`where can i see that?`
`04:48.10`	`bz4186`	`send it publically if you wish`
`04:48.37`	`SilverFox`	`bz4186, we have banned tiscali uk due to abuse.`
`04:48.37`	`bz4186`	`i'm using a web interface, btw`
`04:48.39`	`JeffM2501`	`should be a blinking name`
`04:48.42`	`JeffM2501`	`in the bottom`
`04:48.42`	`Quol`	`was the IP in a segment that was banned SilverFox?`
`04:48.47`	`SilverFox`	`Quol, yes.`
`04:48.52`	`bz4186`	`tiscali is one of the largest ip providers in the uk`
`04:48.58`	`SilverFox`	`I understand.`
`04:49.07`	`*** join/#bzflag \|tim\| (~\|tim\|@ip68-111-10-130.sb.sd.cox.net)`
`04:49.11`	`bz4186`	`there are thousands of people who use the same ip block`
`04:49.19`	`bz4186`	`oh, well.`
`04:49.22`	`Quol`	`SilverFox: sorry - didn't see the above - redundant question :)`
`04:49.40`	`bz4186`	`i'm sorry to hear about the ban, because hepcat.org was one of my favourite servers`
`04:49.41`	`SilverFox`	`Sorry snickersnack.`
`04:49.56`	`bz4186`	`what was the abuse, if you don't mind me asking?`
`04:49.57`	`SilverFox`	`The euro mirror will not have this blocked.`
`04:50.05`	`SilverFox`	`try euro.tybox.net:5156`
`04:50.42`	`bz4186`	`thanks. what is a euro mirror? I guess I could just log on and find out.`
`04:50.51`	`SilverFox`	`European mirror of pillbox.`
`04:51.04`	`SilverFox`	`The intent is to have a low lag pillbox for European players.`
`04:51.30`	`bz4186`	`I see. low lag is good. sorry to ask you again, but i'm curious: what was the abuse?`
`04:51.59`	`bz4186`	`if it's some dreadful secret, please feel free to stay silent :)`
`04:52.32`	`Quol`	`i am guess sillyness - like cheaters, harasers or something`
`04:53.15`	`bz4186`	`those we can do without. it spoils everything when everyone starts suspecting everyone else of cheating`
`04:53.34`	`bz4186`	`it only takes one cheat and everyone is under suspicion`
`04:54.54`	`bz4186`	`regarding lag: i find it incredible really that you can play someone from another country at all`
`04:55.16`	`bz4186`	`often my lag is not to bad, even on the us servers`
`04:55.42`	`bz4186`	`though some are better than others`
`04:55.59`	`Quol`	`as the ISPs around the worls increase their bandwidth and quality of connections, they should hopefully keep getting better and better :)`
`04:56.19`	`bz4186`	`i suppose it's the miracle of fast moving electrons :)`
`04:56.51`	`bz4186`	`even so, it must take some smart coding to make it seem as though there is no delay`
`04:58.20`	`bz4186`	`btw, what is the size to the nearest virtual metre of a bzflag tank?`
`04:58.51`	`JeffM2501`	`1.8 units IIRC`
`05:00.48`	`bz4186`	`surely not! that's only 5.9 feet`
`05:00.54`	`bz4186`	`i'm taller than that`
`05:01.07`	`JeffM2501`	`depends on what you call a unit`
`05:01.14`	`JeffM2501`	`bzflag has no real world units`
`05:01.19`	`JeffM2501`	`it's all just bzflag "units"`
`05:01.23`	`bz4186`	`oh, i see`
`05:01.31`	`JeffM2501`	`it's just number`
`05:01.33`	`bz4186`	`why not relate them to metres`
`05:01.36`	`bz4186`	`?`
`05:02.16`	`JeffM2501`	`why relate them to meters?`
`05:02.20`	`bz4186`	`how about 1 unit = 4m`
`05:02.29`	`JeffM2501`	`call it what ever you want`
`05:02.33`	`JeffM2501`	`the computer dosn't care`
`05:02.36`	`JeffM2501`	`it's just a number`
`05:02.41`	`bz4186`	`it would be nice to know how fast the tanks move`
`05:02.52`	`bz4186`	`or how fast they would move in real life`
`05:03.02`	`JeffM2501`	`it's a game where tanks jump`
`05:03.08`	`JeffM2501`	`it has no real relation to real life`
`05:03.17`	`bz4186`	`oh, don't real ones jump? :)`
`05:03.36`	`bz4186`	`the shots are a bit slow, i imagine`
`05:03.46`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah real ones move a bit faster`
`05:04.03`	`bz4186`	`fortunately, gravity doesn't seem to affect the bzflag tank shells`
`05:04.14`	`JeffM2501`	`nope`
`05:04.18`	`purple_cow`	`the bullets don't actually have any mass`
`05:04.19`	`JeffM2501`	`being a game, it dosn't have to`
`05:04.31`	`bz4186`	`they're photon bullets?`
`05:04.37`	`purple_cow`	`no, photons have mass`
`05:04.40`	`bz4186`	`but slower than c`
`05:04.43`	`JeffM2501`	`they are textures`
`05:04.53`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`bz4186, ok, ickity ackity ookk aa, 1 unit == 4m`
`05:04.58`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`it is done`
`05:05.17`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`happy now?`
`05:05.17`	`purple_cow`	`;)`
`05:05.32`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm sure if soneone woudl here he'd say "patches welcome" cus that solves all things`
`05:05.33`	`bz4186`	`you've coded it in to the next version already? :)`
`05:05.40`	`JeffM2501`	`sure`
`05:05.41`	`*** part/#bzflag shorty114 (~shorty114@shorty114.user)`
`05:05.54`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`bz4186, i've back patched it to the version on your disk`
`05:05.56`	`JeffM2501`	`since the game dosn't actualy USE units, then it's in all versions, even the ones in the past`
`05:06.05`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`you should tighten up that firewall of yours :)`
`05:06.07`	`*** join/#bzflag bz4186 (~502b7456@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`05:06.25`	`bz4186`	`sorry missed that!`
`05:06.32`	`bz4186`	`hit the back button`
`05:06.33`	`JeffM2501`	`since the game dosn't actualy USE units, then it's in all versions, even the ones in the past`
`05:06.51`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`in my version 1 bz unit == 1 mile`
`05:06.57`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`but in yours its 1 bz unit = 4m`
`05:07.00`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`so we are both happy`
`05:07.10`	`JeffM2501`	`mine is a furlong`
`05:07.14`	`bz4186`	`your tank is more than a mile long!`
`05:07.20`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`yes`
`05:07.22`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`indeedy`
`05:07.26`	`bz4186`	`no wonder it's so slow`
`05:07.30`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`i play a monsters game`
`05:08.03`	`JeffM2501`	`his worlds are that much larger tho`
`05:08.03`	`JeffM2501`	`so it's not soo bad`
`05:08.03`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`yes`
`05:08.08`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`my worlds are usually 800 miles across`
`05:08.29`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`where as yours are usually 3200m`
`05:09.21`	`bz4186`	`another question: does the server list appear in lag order (least to most)?`
`05:09.24`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`luckily, my tank has sophisticated circuitry, such that, if you join my world, i convert 4 meters to 1 mile dynamically, and so i can shoot you just fine`
`05:09.43`	`JeffM2501`	`it's in player order`
`05:09.46`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`no, # of players`
`05:09.53`	`bz4186`	`i see.`
`05:10.16`	`bz4186`	`i think xpilot might've been like that, but it's some time since i've played it`
`05:10.19`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`ties are probably broken by the last server that had a player`
`05:12.25`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~JeffM@Patlabor221.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`05:12.48`	`bz4186`	`is there anything i can do to optimize my connection latency?`
`05:13.28`	`bz4186`	`i don't know if my adsl connection is at all tweakable`
`05:13.57`	`SilverFox`	`bz4186, try speedguide.net`
`05:14.17`	`bz4186`	`thanks`
`05:14.21`	`bz4186`	`i'll give it a look`
`05:15.05`	`SilverFox`	`what hieght are shots fired at? (muzzlehieght I think()`
`05:15.21`	`JeffM2501`	`1.2 i HINK`
`05:15.26`	`Quol`	`I prefer cubit's myself :)`
`05:15.37`	`necrobunny`	`Quol: this isn't Noahs Arc.`
`05:15.42`	`bz4186`	`:)`
`05:16.07`	`SilverFox`	`gotta admin noah's arc would be a lot more interesting if it had tanks though.`
`05:16.08`	`bz4186`	`Noah would have used a tank if amphibuous ones had been invented then`
`05:16.19`	`SilverFox`	`but everything would be more interesting with tanks.`
`05:16.23`	`JeffM2501`	`noah would have used a speedboat`
`05:16.25`	`JeffM2501`	`much faster`
`05:16.30`	`JeffM2501`	`great photos for the bible`
`05:16.38`	`Quol`	`lol`
`05:16.42`	`bz4186`	`the mice (both of them) get so easily upset by the sound of gunfire`
`05:17.03`	`SilverFox`	`tank hieght is 1.6?`
`05:17.11`	`Quol`	`I wouldn't worry about the mice - I would worry about the rhino`
`05:17.12`	`SilverFox`	`I keep thinking shots are around 1.57 for some reason.`
`05:17.20`	`JeffM2501`	`they could be`
`05:17.25`	`JeffM2501`	`I think tank is 1.8 high`
`05:17.39`	`JeffM2501`	`check thec ode`
`05:17.40`	`JeffM2501`	`code`
`05:17.41`	`SilverFox`	`<PROTECTED>`
`05:17.50`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`cateracts`
`05:17.56`	`Quol`	`lol SilverFox`
`05:17.59`	`SilverFox`	`JeffM2501, I've got a binary (winblows) install.`
`05:18.01`	`bz4186`	`wouldn't make any difference to my awful play`
`05:18.07`	`JeffM2501`	`SilverFox, so get the source`
`05:18.10`	`JeffM2501`	`it's free`
`05:18.24`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`1.57 sounds familiar`
`05:18.28`	`Quol`	`while we are at it - why not "bull vision" also - everything goes red`
`05:18.36`	`bz4186`	`my brother would like to play bzflag, but he's on windows and doesn't have any opengl drivers`
`05:18.41`	`SilverFox`	`JeffM2501, money isn't the only thing cost is associated with.`
`05:18.44`	`bz4186`	`is it easy to set them up`
`05:18.49`	`bz4186`	`?`
`05:19.01`	`Quol`	`bz4186 - what videocard?`
`05:19.01`	`JeffM2501`	`bz4186, what version of windows?`
`05:19.10`	`bz4186`	`voodoo 3dfx`
`05:19.15`	`JeffM2501`	`ewww`
`05:19.17`	`SilverFox`	`bz4186, have him just install directx, it'll work fine.`
`05:19.18`	`Quol`	`ahhh - good luck`
`05:19.19`	`JeffM2501`	`what voodoo`
`05:19.27`	`JeffM2501`	`SilverFox, what are you talking about`
`05:19.35`	`JeffM2501`	`bzflag dosn't use DX for rendering`
`05:19.40`	`Quol`	`I had a set of voodoo2 cards - never got it working properly`
`05:19.47`	`JeffM2501`	`exactly`
`05:19.50`	`Quol`	`search the net for the "mesa" drivers`
`05:20.02`	`Quol`	`there is an old version of them for windows somewhere`
`05:20.06`	`JeffM2501`	`quol depends on what version of windows`
`05:20.13`	`JeffM2501`	`98+ will ship with software GL`
`05:20.30`	`bz4186`	`it's XP`
`05:20.36`	`JeffM2501`	`it has GL then`
`05:20.40`	`JeffM2501`	`at least in a software sense`
`05:20.46`	`JeffM2501`	`what voodoo is it?`
`05:20.47`	`SilverFox`	`JeffM2501, I have not OpenGL drivers.`
`05:21.00`	`Quol`	`XP? you got one of those cards working on XP?`
`05:21.02`	`bz4186`	`i don't know what voodoo card it is exactly. i'd have to ask him`
`05:21.12`	`JeffM2501`	`SilverFox, and you don't have DirectX drivers ether, you have video drivers that implement BOTH`
`05:21.21`	`JeffM2501`	`you never want to use the drivers that ship with DX`
`05:21.24`	`bz4186`	`i don't use windows, so all this stuff is a mystery to me`
`05:21.26`	`JeffM2501`	`you want the ones from the MFG`
`05:21.37`	`SilverFox`	`JeffM2501, interesting. BZ was crap until I updated directx.`
`05:21.43`	`JeffM2501`	`what card?`
`05:21.48`	`bz4186`	`direct rendering is a must`
`05:21.53`	`bz4186`	`on linux`
`05:22.01`	`bz4186`	`i imagine it is the same on windows`
`05:22.15`	`bz4186`	`voodoo 3dfx, i think`
`05:22.19`	`SilverFox`	`Mobility Radeon?`
`05:22.31`	`Quol`	`bz4186: spend 100$ a get yourself an ATI 9600 DDR cards or something - you can get one taht has 256MB on it now for around there`
`05:22.36`	`JeffM2501`	`3dfx is the mfg of the voodoo chipsets they made 6 of them`
`05:22.44`	`SilverFox`	`and on the other machine it was a ATI 128 Rage I think?`
`05:22.51`	`JeffM2501`	`SilverFox, that probably updated you to some newer drivers, get the latest ones from your laptop mfg`
`05:22.58`	`JeffM2501`	`ewww`
`05:23.07`	`JeffM2501`	`dx will update drivers`
`05:23.11`	`JeffM2501`	`but never be totaly current`
`05:23.16`	`JeffM2501`	`it's just a side effect`
`05:23.25`	`bz4186`	`i'm using a ati mach64, which isn't brilliant, but it's fast enough without texture mapping`
`05:23.35`	`JeffM2501`	`the new nvidia and ATI drivers wantDX9 tho`
`05:23.41`	`JeffM2501`	`eww`
`05:23.45`	`JeffM2501`	`you people and your crap cards`
`05:23.48`	`SilverFox`	`JeffM2501, that must be it.`
`05:23.51`	`JeffM2501`	`best of luck`
`05:23.58`	`SilverFox`	`JeffM2501, tough to upgrade video in a laptop.`
`05:23.59`	`bz4186`	`i think bzflag looks nice without texures`
`05:24.02`	`JeffM2501`	`replace it`
`05:24.05`	`Quol`	`bz4186: I meant something in the RADEON family - they are alright cards, and you can get them cheap`
`05:24.10`	`SilverFox`	`<PROTECTED>`
`05:24.16`	`JeffM2501`	`if your on a voodoo3 or better there should be drivers for it`
`05:24.19`	`bz4186`	`there's a certain geometrical purity about it`
`05:24.27`	`JeffM2501`	`GF2MXs are like 35$`
`05:24.42`	`Quol`	`i would stay away from those though....`
`05:24.45`	`Quol`	`hatted them`
`05:24.50`	`Quol`	`imho that is`
`05:24.55`	`JeffM2501`	`Quol, I say the same thing about ATI`
`05:25.00`	`JeffM2501`	`the ATI drivers suck`
`05:25.00`	`Quol`	`lol`
`05:25.02`	`JeffM2501`	`hard`
`05:25.07`	`JeffM2501`	`MXs run fine`
`05:25.09`	`bz4186`	`my brother could upgrade quite easily, but he uses a playstation for games`
`05:25.10`	`JeffM2501`	`drivers for all OSs`
`05:25.22`	`JeffM2501`	`no hardware ATI drivers for anything less then an 8000`
`05:25.25`	`Quol`	`i had horrible issues with the MX's though`
`05:25.26`	`*** join/#bzflag Chesta\| (~thilo@pD9E5F304.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`05:25.26`	`JeffM2501`	`and DRI isn't complete`
`05:25.37`	`JeffM2501`	`I've never had a problem with any nvidia card`
`05:25.38`	`Quol`	`I prefered the real cards...nvidia's real lineup`
`05:25.43`	`JeffM2501`	`well sure`
`05:25.46`	`bz4186`	`the whole DRI thing is terribly tangled up`
`05:25.54`	`JeffM2501`	`shaders are allways better`
`05:26.02`	`JeffM2501`	`but the MXs are not any less real`
`05:26.05`	`JeffM2501`	`just no shaders`
`05:26.25`	`Quol`	`I know that ATI had issues a year ago or something - but i haven't had any issues whatsoever with the later ones`
`05:26.40`	`Quol`	`and in the low end cards - I think they outperform the MX's hands down`
`05:26.45`	`*** join/#bzflag TankTuner (~cf45898c@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`05:26.53`	`JeffM2501`	`sure but on linux you can't get hardware drivers for em`
`05:26.59`	`JeffM2501`	`never had a problem with ATI hardware`
`05:27.06`	`Quol`	`ahh - I thought we were talking windows :)`
`05:27.07`	`JeffM2501`	`it's allways been ATI software`
`05:27.21`	`JeffM2501`	`even the windows drivers are no so stable`
`05:27.25`	`bz4186`	`there's usually a time lag with linux and drivers`
`05:27.28`	`JeffM2501`	`they crash a lot`
`05:27.49`	`bz4186`	`i wish manufacturers would stop assuming everyone uses windows`
`05:27.55`	`JeffM2501`	`nvidia dosn't`
`05:27.57`	`Quol`	`haven't had any issues on windows with them - been using them for 2 years - so far so good`
`05:28.04`	`JeffM2501`	`they have drivers for a large nubmer of OSs`
`05:28.14`	`JeffM2501`	`eww a 2 year old card`
`05:28.15`	`Quol`	`in that timeframe, I went through 4 nvidia cards - all MXes :)`
`05:28.17`	`JeffM2501`	`BURN IT!!!!`
`05:28.25`	`bz4186`	`oh, that sounds good.`
`05:28.51`	`bz4186`	`i've heard that games run faster on linux`
`05:28.56`	`bz4186`	`don't know if that's tre`
`05:29.00`	`bz4186`	`true`
`05:29.02`	`Quol`	`JeffM2501: I just keep upgrading - had an ATI 1700 I think, then a 9200, then a 9600...`
`05:29.03`	`JeffM2501`	`I own 2MXs, 4Mxs, 3's 4's FX5200's, 5700,s and 5900's`
`05:29.05`	`JeffM2501`	`they all run fine`
`05:29.20`	`JeffM2501`	`the radeons have some funky issues`
`05:29.32`	`JeffM2501`	`like they don't handle non square windows gracefully`
`05:29.41`	`JeffM2501`	`we put a round window ontop of a GL context`
`05:29.42`	`Quol`	`could be - but I am really happy with my 9600`
`05:29.51`	`JeffM2501`	`slows down like 50X`
`05:30.23`	`Quol`	`again - could be, but where else can you get a 256MB DDR card for 90$ :)`
`05:30.36`	`JeffM2501`	`from nvidia with a FX5200`
`05:31.10`	`Quol`	`they were all in the 150 range when I bought the card I think...prbably have come down in price now though`
`05:31.11`	`JeffM2501`	`price point wise they all have about the same offerings`
`05:31.18`	`JeffM2501`	`ohh no, not a 5200`
`05:31.41`	`JeffM2501`	`FX5200 256 meg is like 80$`
`05:31.46`	`Quol`	`maybe - I haven't tried the 5200 though...since it is not an MX - I may try it...`
`05:31.48`	`purple_cow`	`your radeon 9600 is $100 for the cheapest, fx5200 is $74 :)`
`05:31.49`	`JeffM2501`	`full FX line shaders`
`05:31.57`	`JeffM2501`	`it's not the fastest FX`
`05:32.01`	`JeffM2501`	`but it's a card`
`05:32.05`	`purple_cow`	`it's not very fast at all`
`05:32.22`	`purple_cow`	`hell, you can get a 5700FX for $90`
`05:32.27`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`05:32.28`	`Quol`	`and that's AGP 8x 2?`
`05:32.34`	`bz4186`	`what are the glxgear ratings?`
`05:32.34`	`blast007`	`5200 is fast enough for me ;)`
`05:32.44`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah they do 8x`
`05:32.55`	`Quol`	`wow - I will look into it...`
`05:32.56`	`JeffM2501`	`like I say, they all match in price point`
`05:33.03`	`Quol`	`how are they on regular 2d stuff?`
`05:33.17`	`JeffM2501`	`fine`
`05:33.22`	`JeffM2501`	`it all uses the same 3d hardware`
`05:33.26`	`Quol`	`I know that there were big issues with the MXes and 2d resolutions above 1024x768`
`05:33.27`	`JeffM2501`	`on the backend`
`05:33.36`	`purple_cow`	`hehe`
`05:33.39`	`JeffM2501`	`that sounds like a bios issue from a card mfg`
`05:33.45`	`JeffM2501`	`mine ran 1600 just fine`
`05:33.52`	`JeffM2501`	`even the mxs`
`05:34.05`	`JeffM2501`	`you probably didn't have your monitor config right`
`05:34.10`	`JeffM2501`	`so it didn't think it could go higher`
`05:34.12`	`Quol`	`all my Mxes were all "foggy" - main reason why I dumoed them`
`05:34.19`	`purple_cow`	`...foggy?`
`05:34.21`	`JeffM2501`	`or maybe you were running the standard windows drivers`
`05:34.47`	`Quol`	`dumped i mean...yah - like corners weren't clear, dragging issues - would leave a trail...`
`05:34.49`	`necrobunny`	`piping himself?`
`05:34.56`	`JeffM2501`	`what drivers?`
`05:35.00`	`Quol`	`no - was using the nvidia drivers`
`05:35.04`	`necrobunny`	`ugh.. I suppose it is bedtime.`
`05:35.08`	`JeffM2501`	`I've never seen issues like that`
`05:35.19`	`Quol`	`always upgraded, but never worked - maybe I just got some bad ones - bad luck...`
`05:35.27`	`JeffM2501`	`a card can't be GL compliant if it dosnt' show the exact same thing as the refrence images`
`05:35.45`	`Quol`	`in lower resolutions they were alright`
`05:35.57`	`Quol`	`but they crapped out when the resolution got higher`
`05:35.58`	`JeffM2501`	`I had ATI cards that coudn't draw a textured quad right`
`05:36.05`	`JeffM2501`	`woudl screw the blend at the edges`
`05:36.17`	`JeffM2501`	`sounds like you had some issues`
`05:36.19`	`JeffM2501`	`what mfg?`
`05:36.42`	`Quol`	`asus, creative....I am thinking of the other`
`05:36.53`	`JeffM2501`	`never used those`
`05:37.00`	`JeffM2501`	`tho I never used the "main" brands like that`
`05:37.11`	`JeffM2501`	`allways did the ones based of the refrence boards`
`05:37.21`	`Quol`	`the other was some small brand - like zel brand or something`
`05:37.24`	`JeffM2501`	`evga and stuff`
`05:38.16`	`JeffM2501`	`my most common use of a MX was secondary video card in a PCI slot`
`05:38.20`	`JeffM2501`	`they work great for that`
`05:38.41`	`Quol`	`that's good.`
`05:39.05`	`Quol`	`although the newer ones you can just use the DVI to power the 2nd monitor...`
`05:39.06`	`JeffM2501`	`but everyone has there own experience with difrent hardware`
`05:39.11`	`JeffM2501`	`well yeah`
`05:39.15`	`JeffM2501`	`but when you need 3`
`05:39.19`	`Quol`	`lol`
`05:39.32`	`Quol`	`the best were the matrox - can't remember the model`
`05:39.36`	`Quol`	`dual head PCI cards`
`05:39.46`	`JeffM2501`	`G200 and 400`
`05:39.53`	`JeffM2501`	`total crap cards`
`05:39.58`	`JeffM2501`	`we had some`
`05:40.06`	`Quol`	`3D crap - but 2D was quite good`
`05:40.08`	`JeffM2501`	`GF3 and a MX worked a LOT better`
`05:40.22`	`JeffM2501`	`actualy we had a number of 2d driver issues with matrix`
`05:40.24`	`blast007`	`the FX 5200 has a PCI version`
`05:40.25`	`JeffM2501`	`matrox`
`05:40.26`	`Quol`	`I had 6 monitors hooked up in my last job with those babies`
`05:40.29`	`JeffM2501`	`they had blend mode issues`
`05:40.34`	`Quol`	`powered our NOC machines`
`05:41.04`	`Quol`	`was cool to drag and drop windows between all 6 monitors :)`
`05:41.18`	`JeffM2501`	`you can do that now with twinview`
`05:41.27`	`JeffM2501`	`just slap in a bunch of nvidia cards`
`05:41.38`	`JeffM2501`	`drivers support N screens out of the box`
`05:41.48`	`JeffM2501`	`and virtual desktop support`
`05:41.49`	`Quol`	`yup - just waiting for them to make quad cards :)`
`05:41.57`	`blast007`	`http://www.nvidia.com/page/sli.html`
`05:42.00`	`JeffM2501`	`that would show down the GPU`
`05:42.17`	`JeffM2501`	`multi head eats ram and GPU cycles`
`05:42.21`	`Quol`	`i don't like nscreens though - unless they have improved, I wasn't impressed with n screen at all`
`05:42.25`	`bz4186`	`bye all. thanks for the advice.`
`05:42.34`	`JeffM2501`	`by "N" I mean as many as you want`
`05:42.36`	`blast007`	`bz4186: cya`
`05:42.51`	`JeffM2501`	`as many as the card supports`
`05:42.54`	`Quol`	`<PROTECTED>`
`05:42.58`	`JeffM2501`	`no`
`05:43.07`	`JeffM2501`	`nview is a feature in the driver`
`05:43.10`	`Quol`	`maybe I am wrong - whatever virtual desktop software that they have`
`05:43.15`	`JeffM2501`	`it's the driver`
`05:43.18`	`Quol`	`ahh - nview - that's it`
`05:43.19`	`JeffM2501`	`it does it`
`05:43.23`	`JeffM2501`	`works fine for me`
`05:43.29`	`JeffM2501`	`runs just like leenox`
`05:43.40`	`Quol`	`just didn't like how it wasn't all that configurable`
`05:44.09`	`JeffM2501`	`how so, define N deskiops, pick images for them, pick how you cycle thru them, and be able to send any window to any desktop`
`05:44.24`	`JeffM2501`	`what else is there to configure?`
`05:45.03`	`Quol`	`some window managers are more configurable and more "friendly" to use...like go screen`
`05:45.17`	`JeffM2501`	`whatever floats your boat`
`05:45.21`	`Quol`	`unless they have improved it...`
`05:45.28`	`JeffM2501`	`they allways improve it`
`05:45.29`	`Quol`	`last time I tried was about a year ago`
`05:45.35`	`*** join/#bzflag huwr (~huwr@CPE-203-51-24-14.nsw.bigpond.net.au)`
`05:45.39`	`JeffM2501`	`up untill last year, ATI had 2 driver people`
`05:45.45`	`JeffM2501`	`now they have like 10`
`05:45.52`	`JeffM2501`	`nvidia has like 40`
`05:46.00`	`Quol`	`couldn't even define keyboard shortcuts to switch screens - had to do it with the mouse :)`
`05:46.15`	`JeffM2501`	`those must have been some VERY old drivers`
`05:46.20`	`Quol`	`ya - nvidia stole all of matrox's guys - lol`
`05:46.21`	`JeffM2501`	`alt F1`
`05:46.35`	`JeffM2501`	`well when matrox stoped paying them enough :)`
`05:46.38`	`Quol`	`ya - but waht if you want it to be something else`
`05:46.40`	`JeffM2501`	`they go where the cash is`
`05:46.46`	`JeffM2501`	`I set it to alt-F1`
`05:46.59`	`JeffM2501`	`you can set it to whatever`
`05:47.07`	`Quol`	`ya - the matrox engineer's got killer deals`
`05:47.25`	`Quol`	`cool - I guess they have improved nview then...thats's good to know`
`05:47.26`	`blast007`	`nview has mouse gestures now to switch desktops ;)`
`05:47.30`	`JeffM2501`	`nvidia did the smart thing and got as many smart people as they could`
`05:47.43`	`JeffM2501`	`they understand that hardware is only as good as the driver`
`05:47.47`	`PrezKennedy`	`so they could do other smart things in the future`
`05:47.48`	`Quol`	`yup - I know that lawsuit is still going on`
`05:47.53`	`JeffM2501`	`don't think ATI realised that it recently`
`05:48.18`	`Quol`	`nvidia has put out some great chips - that's for sure`
`05:48.33`	`Quol`	`can't argue about that`
`05:48.41`	`JeffM2501`	`and linux support for ALL chipsets`
`05:48.50`	`JeffM2501`	`ATI just did the 8000 and up`
`05:49.24`	`Quol`	`deffinetly - is you talk linux - nvidia is the way to go....with windows, I think that the latest cards are fairly equivalent..`
`05:49.36`	`JeffM2501`	`I just know I can stick my nvida cards in any system, on prety much any OS and get the same performance/quality`
`05:49.47`	`JeffM2501`	`no mater what the card`
`05:49.50`	`JeffM2501`	`can't do that with ATI`
`05:49.55`	`Quol`	`like I know the video capture (analog that is) seems to be better quality on my ATI - always got better results from my camcorder through an ATI...`
`05:50.11`	`JeffM2501`	`yes ATI does do the vivo well`
`05:50.16`	`JeffM2501`	`but then I use DVI for that`
`05:50.26`	`JeffM2501`	`who wants to use (shudder) analog`
`05:50.53`	`Quol`	`well - if your camcorder only supports that - then you don't have many choices`
`05:51.07`	`JeffM2501`	`one is get a new camcorder :)`
`05:51.08`	`Quol`	`although, I just upgraded it this christmas, now it's all through firewire :)`
`05:51.16`	`JeffM2501`	`it's much better`
`05:51.19`	`JeffM2501`	`higher res too`
`05:51.27`	`Quol`	`ya - it's great - pure digital...`
`05:51.32`	`JeffM2501`	`and if the new corder has video in, then use it to caputre`
`05:51.36`	`Quol`	`transfering everything over to DVD now...`
`05:51.37`	`JeffM2501`	`much better then the cards`
`05:52.12`	`JeffM2501`	`I've seen some realy nice USB digitizers too`
`05:52.40`	`Quol`	`ya - was the 2nd to top of the line sony - stereo sound, all digital, night vision, looks cool`
`05:53.16`	`Quol`	`and through firewire, everything is crystal clear..`
`06:54.57`	`*** join/#bzflag sgk284 (~sgk284@pool-138-89-238-58.atc.east.verizon.net)`
`06:56.08`	`sgk284`	`hello`
`06:56.24`	`Aribeth`	`hi`
`06:56.42`	`sgk284`	`how goes it?`
`06:56.49`	`Aribeth`	`good`
`06:57.02`	`Aribeth`	`and you?`
`06:57.07`	`sgk284`	`not too bad`
`07:18.03`	`*** join/#bzflag nullified (~nullified@user-vcaup2r.dsl.mindspring.com)`
`07:18.13`	`nullified`	`Hey all`
`07:21.58`	`sgk284`	`hey nullifies`
`07:22.01`	`sgk284`	`hey nullified`
`07:22.04`	`sgk284`	`:)`
`07:22.58`	`*** part/#bzflag sgk284 (~sgk284@pool-138-89-238-58.atc.east.verizon.net)`
`07:29.46`	`*** part/#bzflag nullified (~nullified@user-vcaup2r.dsl.mindspring.com)`
`07:40.03`	`*** join/#bzflag nullified (~nullified@user-vcaup2r.dsl.mindspring.com)`
`07:41.11`	`*** join/#bzflag blast007_away (~blast@dialup-4.159.47.185.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net)`
`07:52.44`	`*** join/#bzflag Silver[a] (SilverFox@68-116-47-254.or.charter.com)`
`08:08.04`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-4 (~CIA@to.je.spocco.com)`
`08:20.35`	`*** join/#bzflag nullified_ (~nullified@user-vcaup2r.dsl.mindspring.com)`
`08:25.08`	`nullified_`	`i have?`
`08:34.04`	`nullified_`	`...`
`08:48.27`	`Crko`	`is there a way to add flags during a game?`
`08:48.35`	`Crko`	`perhaps a admin command :P`
`08:52.36`	`nullified_`	`anyone alive?`
`08:55.37`	`ruskie`	`:))`
`08:56.22`	`Pimpinella`	`whats up?`
`08:56.46`	`Pimpinella`	`oh, wrong window`
`08:57.24`	`nullified_`	`lol`
`08:57.29`	`nullified_`	`guess so`
`08:57.51`	`*** part/#bzflag Pimpinella (~frank@p50821FC9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`08:58.25`	`*** join/#bzflag Pimpinella (~frank@p50821FC9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`08:59.49`	`nullified_`	`wb`
`08:59.53`	`nullified_`	`frank?`
`09:04.21`	`nullified_`	`not the famous frank?`
`09:04.24`	`nullified_`	`?`
`09:13.39`	`*** join/#bzflag bau (~levko@sporedi.info)`
`09:13.46`	`*** part/#bzflag bau (~levko@sporedi.info)`
`09:16.22`	`*** join/#bzflag \|tim\| (~\|tim\|@ip68-111-10-130.sb.sd.cox.net)`
`09:19.09`	`*** join/#bzflag _edini (~edini@edini.net)`
`09:23.42`	`Pimpinella`	`nullified_: hm?`
`09:24.04`	`nullified_`	`the frank?`
`09:24.09`	`Pimpinella`	`who is a famous frank?`
`09:24.15`	`Pimpinella`	`bzfrank? no`
`09:24.51`	`Pimpinella`	`there is another famous frank --> Chestal`
`09:24.59`	`nullified_`	`that's him?`
`09:25.18`	`Pimpinella`	`bzfrank is before my time in bz`
`09:25.33`	`Pimpinella`	`Chestals real name is frank too, though`
`09:25.59`	`nullified_`	`Ooooh. ok`
`09:30.25`	`nullified_`	`nite all`
`09:30.27`	`*** part/#bzflag nullified_ (~nullified@user-vcaup2r.dsl.mindspring.com)`
`10:33.36`	`*** join/#bzflag TheDarkSamurai (~3eff4008@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`10:33.58`	`TheDarkSamurai`	`morning all`
`10:48.04`	`*** join/#bzflag Crko (~crko@cmb27-47.dial-up.arnes.si)`
`11:05.29`	`*** join/#bzflag Pimpinella (~frank@p50820B6A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`11:07.31`	`*** join/#bzflag Tupone (Tupone@84.222.139.15)`
`11:08.59`	`*** join/#bzflag trepan (~trepan@trepan.user)`
`11:13.00`	`Silver[a]`	`morwening`
`11:46.45`	`*** join/#bzflag newbie_dont (~janko@dkl171.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)`
`12:01.00`	`*** join/#bzflag noob_dont (~janko@dlj133.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)`
`12:03.38`	`*** join/#bzflag \|zongo\| (~zongo@80-218-159-21.dclient.hispeed.ch)`
`12:07.36`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-4 (~CIA@to.je.spocco.com)`
`12:10.14`	`*** join/#bzflag birdie (~birdie@d51A5325E.kabel.telenet.be)`
`12:34.25`	`Pimpinella`	`i fixed my problems with -reportpipe in my chroot`
`12:34.51`	`Pimpinella`	`i had to mount /proc to get pipies working`
`12:35.07`	`Pimpinella`	`s/pipies/pipes`
`12:39.23`	`Chestal`	`oh? I wonder why that is, hmm`
`12:40.20`	`Pimpinella`	`Guerin on #debian told me a pipe must live in a filesystem, at least a virtual`
`12:41.12`	`Pimpinella`	`what I wander about is, that it seems i have to do this only once, not everytime i use the chroot command`
`12:41.44`	`Pimpinella`	`would suspect the proc mount is gone once the chrooted process is stopped`
`12:41.59`	`Pimpinella`	`but it seems it is persistent...`
`12:45.16`	`Chestal`	`don't ask me, chroot always confuses me`
`12:48.53`	`Tupone`	`Pimpinella: I suspect that anything you do system wide will stay even when you leave chroot, so a mount`
`12:51.50`	`Tupone`	`I think of it like a shell with a different file system hierarchy, no more no less`
`12:55.35`	`Pimpinella`	`hm, proc is a special type of fs. since it's provided by the kernel the mount in the chroot might be just another instance of the systems proc (obviously, since there is no other kernel in the chroot and the kernel wont provide another one). if a pipe is needed /etc/mtab is condulted for the position of the procfs and mtab will keep the proc entry once it is in there`
`12:56.31`	`Pimpinella`	`the procfs is accessible just needs an anchor which is the mountpoint /proc`
`12:56.57`	`Tupone`	`yeah, so you just should mount it in the chroot hierarchy`
`12:56.57`	`Pimpinella`	`at least explains ;)`
`12:58.34`	`Pimpinella`	`hey, bzflag is great, it helps meunderstanding my operating system ;)`
`12:58.45`	`Tupone`	`hehe`
`12:59.18`	`Tupone`	`I guess someone is looking at "/proc/mounts"`
`12:59.59`	`Tupone`	`cause /etc/mtab is not copied in the chroot, unless you do`
`13:00.08`	`Pimpinella`	`i did`
`13:00.17`	`Tupone`	`:)`
`13:00.18`	`Pimpinella`	`well, i created`
`13:00.51`	`noob_dont`	`Pimpinella, are you an admin on ducati?`
`13:01.00`	`Tupone`	`you mount the proc inside the chroot or outside?`
`13:01.18`	`Pimpinella`	`Tupone: inside`
`13:01.44`	`Pimpinella`	`noob_dont: if Chestal gave me privs again, lets give it a try`
`13:02.21`	`Tupone`	`so, it is updated, and did you leave the chroot without unmounting it?`
`13:02.50`	`\|zongo\|`	`noob_dont: i am`
`13:10.39`	`Pimpinella`	`Tupone: yes, i didn't umount`
`13:12.19`	`Pimpinella`	`Tupone: and when i restarted bzfs in the chroot the pipe still worked`
`13:12.22`	`Pimpinella`	`without need to mount proc again`
`13:13.55`	`Pimpinella`	`dunno if it will also survive a reboot, and i only reboot that box on emergency (2 times this year so far)`
`13:15.52`	`Tupone`	`the mount of proc is still there. dunno who is consulting mtab, but I guess pipes handler (kernel) does not need to consult that.`
`13:16.39`	`Tupone`	`probably programs get from /proc what is needed, and proc remain mounted, even if mtab does or does not say this`
`13:19.18`	`Tupone`	`udev or devfsd could have the need of reading it?`
`13:23.31`	`Pimpinella`	`hey Quol`
`13:24.42`	`Pimpinella`	`no devfs here`
`13:24.45`	`*** join/#bzflag Grumbler (~galkire@grumbler.bronze.supporter.pdpc)`
`13:33.58`	`Grumbler`	`hmmm, looks like there was some developer fall out during the holidays`
`13:38.43`	`Chestal`	`at least the holidays gave me some time to work a little on the code :-)`
`13:40.37`	`Chestal`	`sad thing is that once I have time and motivation to work on the code, noone else is around to discuss with, oh well`
`13:42.36`	`Grumbler`	`sounds like you need more people working on it in your timezone`
`13:42.51`	`Chestal`	`that would be nice`
`13:43.02`	`Chestal`	`but over the holidays it was more or less deserted here`
`13:43.03`	`Tupone`	`I'm one`
`13:44.11`	`Chestal`	`Tupone: does switching fullscreen/window work for you?`
`13:44.19`	`Tupone`	`on SDL, yeah`
`13:44.20`	`Chestal`	`here on Debian with MGA DRI, it crashes`
`13:44.27`	`Chestal`	`obviously on first gl call after switch`
`13:44.38`	`Chestal`	`when I last tried (about 1-2 months ago) it worked`
`13:45.10`	`Chestal`	`sound liek the gl context gets screwed up`
`13:46.39`	`Chestal`	`gdb core backtrace shows crah in some dri stuff, gl call is something innocent, glIdentity or so`
`13:46.48`	`Tupone`	`I remember some guys worked lastly on the gl context trying to fix it.`
`13:46.56`	`Tupone`	`trepan perhaps`
`13:47.04`	`Quol`	`hello Pimpinella`
`13:47.06`	`Tupone`	`and learner`
`13:47.47`	`Chestal`	`this is not a part of the code I am familiar with`
`13:47.55`	`Tupone`	`Chestal: is that an SDL build?`
`13:47.56`	`Chestal`	`I once looked into how 1.7/1.10 handled this stuff`
`13:48.01`	`Chestal`	`and it was broken by design`
`13:48.04`	`Chestal`	`yes, SDL`
`13:48.10`	`Chestal`	`non-SDL cannot switch, or can it?`
`13:48.19`	`Tupone`	`I don't think it can`
`13:48.21`	`Chestal`	`non-SDL has some other issues now`
`13:48.48`	`Chestal`	`I am not sure, are both SDL and direct X11/Linux 'supported'?`
`13:49.39`	`Tupone`	`X11/Linux does not have all the feature`
`13:49.49`	`Tupone`	`but is not "unsupported"`
`13:49.54`	`Chestal`	`but it's broken`
`13:50.02`	`Chestal`	`some of the callback logic seems to have changed`
`13:50.07`	`Chestal`	`it behaves all weird sometimes now`
`13:50.19`	`Chestal`	`infinite resolution switching can happen for example`
`13:50.53`	`Chestal`	`the SDL stuff does the work in other places than the X11 stuff does`
`13:51.33`	`Chestal`	`I'm not sure it's easy to fix it in the platform independent part of the code`
`13:51.48`	`Chestal`	`but again, that part of the code is mostly unknown to me and it scares me :-)`
`13:52.14`	`Tupone`	`the 8 bit color bug is a must for you?`
`13:52.16`	`Chestal`	`Tim seemed to be eager to get a realease out`
`13:52.40`	`Chestal`	`well, the 8bit problem makes it impossbile for me to use 1.10 on my bzflag machine`
`13:52.48`	`Chestal`	`along with the new font engine`
`13:53.05`	`Chestal`	`which is too slow, I guess it's only fast with hardware texture support`
`13:53.11`	`Tupone`	`yeah`
`13:53.21`	`Chestal`	`and it looks ugly on my software machine`
`13:53.41`	`Tupone`	`it is ugly even in my hardware machine :(`
`13:54.03`	`Chestal`	`are thr fonts 'smoothed' on painting?`
`13:54.09`	`Chestal`	`are s the the font files itself?`
`13:54.12`	`Tupone`	`font occupy too much space on screen,`
`13:54.41`	`Tupone`	`for the tiny font, they are just like they are in the font file`
`13:55.01`	`Tupone`	`so no smoothing`
`13:55.06`	`Chestal`	`IMHO they look ok on my hardware machine at 1024x768`
`13:55.18`	`Chestal`	`hmm, which one is too big?`
`13:55.26`	`Chestal`	`scoreboard and control panel can be adjusted?`
`13:55.33`	`Tupone`	`well, difficult to see bullet coming through the font`
`13:55.57`	`Tupone`	`so I remove the Scoreboard while playing`
`13:56.43`	`Tupone`	`when the char font are bigger, they are antialiased by the hardware texture engine`
`13:56.54`	`Chestal`	`hmm, changign font siye also crashes bz fr me`
`13:57.04`	`Chestal`	`I never played with scoreboard`
`13:57.52`	`Chestal`	`changign fontszize shouldn't affect the gl context, though?`
`13:57.57`	`Tupone`	`nope`
`13:58.09`	`Chestal`	`work son my software machine`
`13:58.38`	`Tupone`	`well, on linux, with GLX, we don't need to care about GL context, IIRC`
`13:58.40`	`Chestal`	`also, ducati needs an OS update or at least additional packets installed`
`13:58.50`	`Chestal`	`right now, I cannot run a 1.11 bzfs there`
`13:59.00`	`Tupone`	`what it needs?`
`13:59.13`	`Tupone`	`adns is not mandatory`
`13:59.20`	`Chestal`	`well, I used to compiel with g++-295 on my faster machine, then copy it over`
`13:59.21`	`Tupone`	`curl?`
`13:59.27`	`Chestal`	`but now it requires a new libc version for some reason`
`13:59.34`	`Chestal`	`I thnik I tracked this down once to regex stuff`
`13:59.42`	`Chestal`	`mising packets are libcurl, ssl, crypto`
`14:00.11`	`Tupone`	`I guess you cna build without curl`
`14:00.44`	`Tupone`	`and ssl and crypto just depend on curl`
`14:01.12`	`Chestal`	`confgiure --help doesn't lit an option`
`14:02.16`	`Chestal`	`gdb bt looks the same after font crash than after res change`
`14:02.28`	`Chestal`	`#9 0x4099a842 in __driUtilCreateScreen () from /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/mga_dri.so`
`14:02.33`	`Chestal`	`#10 0x08076c19 in BackgroundRenderer::drawSky (this=0xbfffe6c0, renderer=@0x8304118,`
`14:02.34`	`Chestal`	`<PROTECTED>`
`14:02.46`	`Chestal`	`764 is call to glIdentity`
`14:02.52`	`Chestal`	`first call in render loop to GL I suppose`
`14:03.03`	`Chestal`	`do font change seems to mess up the gl context or somethign similar`
`14:04.50`	`Chestal`	`getMainWindow()->getWindow()->callResizeCallbacks();`
`14:04.56`	`Chestal`	`so it calls resize callbacks`
`14:05.06`	`Chestal`	`I suppose those go down into the platform specific window code`
`14:05.07`	`Tupone`	`ohh, just to get the dimension`
`14:05.16`	`Chestal`	`probably destroy/create new context etc.`
`14:06.20`	`Tupone`	`SDLDisplay.cxx:674 I made 3/4 month ago a check to not destroy context`
`14:06.28`	`Chestal`	`the problem with 1.10 gl code was that it had some clever managing classes for gl lists`
`14:06.36`	`Chestal`	`but those were not aware of context changes`
`14:06.49`	`Chestal`	`and on context change, all gl ids become invalid`
`14:07.05`	`Chestal`	`but they happily called gldeletelsits with the old ids`
`14:07.10`	`Tupone`	`yeah, I remember it.`
`14:07.15`	`Chestal`	`this didn't cause crashes, though, only wrong colors etc.`
`14:07.34`	`Chestal`	`I cannot fulyl trust this machien here, though, it has some bad mem`
`14:07.40`	`Chestal`	`maybe I should try to reboot`
`14:07.47`	`Tupone`	`on SDL I removed that context destroy/init`
`14:07.50`	`Chestal`	`but its 100% reproducacble`
`14:08.15`	`Tupone`	`that is because we use GLX and do not need that`
`14:08.33`	`Tupone`	`but someone else could have done this in other place`
`14:09.00`	`Chestal`	`when did you remove it? when SDL support was created, or later?`
`14:09.05`	`Chestal`	`because SDL used to work for me`
`14:09.20`	`Tupone`	`later, but 3/4 months ago, or before`
`14:09.25`	`Tupone`	`I can check`
`14:10.09`	`Tupone`	`19-Jul-04`
`14:10.55`	`Chestal`	`what file is this in?`
`14:11.05`	`Tupone`	`SDLDisplay.cxx:674`
`14:11.48`	`Chestal`	`at the tiem of te change?`
`14:11.55`	`Chestal`	`I wish I had a good cvs browser`
`14:12.03`	`Chestal`	`the sf web interface is just too slow`
`14:12.57`	`Tupone`	`I use emacs, annotate`
`14:14.33`	`Tupone`	`1.36 -> 1.37`
`14:14.52`	`Chestal`	`1.38 has a siginficant cange`
`14:14.59`	`Chestal`	`I will try to undo this`
`14:15.13`	`Chestal`	`althugh I am quite sure I have used it after July, hmm`
`14:16.36`	`Chestal`	`still crashes`
`14:18.06`	`Tupone`	`MainWindow.cxx:290`
`14:18.28`	`Tupone`	`I don't think it should be there for glx`
`14:18.41`	`Chestal`	`290 is EOF`
`14:18.53`	`Chestal`	`241?`
`14:18.59`	`Chestal`	`<PROTECTED>`
`14:19.00`	`Tupone`	`MainWindow ?`
`14:19.26`	`Tupone`	`src/bzflag/MainWindow.cxx`
`14:19.42`	`Chestal`	`wee`
`14:19.59`	`Chestal`	`when I press F1, SDLWindow::create gets called 12 times`
`14:20.19`	`Chestal`	`yes, Mainwindow.cxx has 290 lines`
`14:20.35`	`Tupone`	`so it is 241`
`14:20.44`	`Chestal`	`I'll comment this out`
`14:20.53`	`Chestal`	`why the many calls to the create function?`
`14:20.57`	`Chestal`	`is there more than one window?`
`14:21.19`	`Tupone`	`some resizing, I guess most from FontManager`
`14:21.24`	`Tupone`	`:(`
`14:21.36`	`Chestal`	`uhm`
`14:21.43`	`Chestal`	`why woudl FontManager resize things?`
`14:22.23`	`Chestal`	`ah, the first 10 calls are probably on startup`
`14:22.42`	`Chestal`	`that woudl explain the slow start, too, maybe`
`14:22.46`	`Tupone`	`just to compute dimension I suppose, I haven't look deeply at those. Perhaps not font manager but HUI to get size of screen`
`14:22.48`	`Chestal`	`takes forever for bzflag to display the start screen`
`14:23.15`	`Chestal`	`only 2 on switch to window`
`14:23.25`	`Chestal`	`still crashes without the line in MainWindow.cxx`
`14:23.31`	`Tupone`	`ohh`
`14:23.43`	`Chestal`	`one more try`
`14:23.50`	`Chestal`	`but I have an uneasy feelign about this all`
`14:24.09`	`Chestal`	`it seems to me, that the tasks of window/display etc. are not well defined`
`14:24.16`	`Chestal`	`and each platform andles it in an inconsistent way`
`14:24.27`	`Chestal`	`it scares me`
`14:25.24`	`Chestal`	`ok, now it works`
`14:25.27`	`Tupone`	`yeha, when I did SDL porting, I mean to replace everything. So with just one layer is easy to change. But that is not`
`14:25.33`	`Chestal`	`initocntext removed from mainwindow`
`14:25.44`	`Chestal`	`before, I had undone your change in SDLDsiplay`
`14:25.46`	`Tupone`	`ah, what was the revious try?`
`14:25.50`	`Tupone`	`ah ok`
`14:25.52`	`Chestal`	`so now SDL does onyl create the context once`
`14:25.57`	`Chestal`	`I guess this breaks SDL on Windows now`
`14:26.28`	`Chestal`	`I also want to know the reason for the many resizes or whatever it's doing`
`14:26.33`	`Chestal`	`that seems to be silly`
`14:27.03`	`Tupone`	`dunno, I tried with DTR (windows) my changes, cause I was scared for windows, but they work`
`14:27.15`	`Chestal`	`hmm`
`14:27.26`	`Chestal`	`I thoguht Window swould lose context even on window switching?`
`14:27.29`	`Tupone`	`probably break everything not SDL`
`14:27.38`	`Chestal`	`or maybe SDL handles that internally?`
`14:27.44`	`Tupone`	`probably`
`14:28.00`	`Tupone`	`but I cannot imagine how :(`
`14:28.13`	`Chestal`	`IMHO this mess has to be cleaned somehow`
`14:28.23`	`Tupone`	`all SDL :)`
`14:28.28`	`Chestal`	`I fear there is noone who understands how things really work`
`14:28.29`	`Tupone`	`only it`
`14:29.42`	`Tupone`	`1.32 (brlcad 13-Dec-04): OpenGLGState::initContext();`
`14:30.01`	`Tupone`	`that initContext has been put there recently`
`14:30.25`	`Chestal`	`what does the cvs comment say?`
`14:30.29`	`Chestal`	`it wasn't there in 1.10 either`
`14:31.02`	`Tupone`	`duh, just use the existing callback .. in fact just hook into the resize func called by the callback.`
`14:31.12`	`Tupone`	`?`
`14:31.19`	`Tupone`	`that is the comment`
`14:31.32`	`Chestal`	`uhm`
`14:32.54`	`Chestal`	`hmm, why do I not have any CVS commit from learner in my mail on that day?`
`14:33.52`	`Tupone`	`http://cia.navi.cx/stats/author/brlcad`
`14:34.24`	`Chestal`	`oh, what's that?`
`14:35.15`	`Tupone`	`it is from scanline/purple_cow`
`14:35.16`	`Chestal`	`add initContext as a window resize callback. this at least fixes resize problems on mac and perhaps elsewhere when hitting f1, dragging window corner, etc.`
`14:35.25`	`Chestal`	`this seems to be the rationale for adding it`
`14:35.39`	`Chestal`	`still wondering why all these commits are missing on the CVS ml`
`14:36.02`	`Chestal`	`so as I feared, fix one platfor, break others`
`14:36.20`	`Tupone`	`I guess MacOSX does not use GLX`
`14:37.08`	`Chestal`	`lustig`
`14:37.14`	`Chestal`	`aber PSNR ist doch eh halbwegs nutzlos`
`14:37.15`	`Chestal`	`oopsa`
`14:38.09`	`Chestal`	`still not sure why it crashed for mt with that call, though`
`14:43.38`	`CIA-4`	`BZFlag: 03chestal * 10bzflag/BUGS: more info on resize crash`
`14:44.10`	`Chestal`	`indeed, MainWindow::resize is called 10 tiems for me on program start`
`14:44.24`	`Chestal`	`sounds like once or maybe twice should be sufficient?`
`14:45.22`	`Tupone`	`lol`
`14:45.26`	`*** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@63.147.94.145)`
`14:45.57`	`Tupone`	`i guess that initContext can be moved to SDLDisplay, and done only for Mac`
`14:46.13`	`Tupone`	`in the place where already is`
`14:46.22`	`Chestal`	`maybe a mac guy will be here later and can try`
`14:46.42`	`Chestal`	`still, the crash seems to say that there is something wrong`
`14:46.46`	`Chestal`	`and we only avoid the problem`
`14:47.31`	`Tupone`	`I don't think there is a problem for linux, again. If you remove that lines. Only on platform that needs that`
`14:47.36`	`Chestal`	`when ij windows mode, I get less resizes, only 8`
`14:47.39`	`Chestal`	`first is with 0/0`
`14:47.51`	`Chestal`	`then 6 with the final size of 640x480`
`14:47.56`	`Chestal`	`so it#s only 7 in total`
`14:48.24`	`Chestal`	`Tupone: yes, it works fine without context rrecreation, but shoudln't it be ok to recreate the nctext, even when not necessary?`
`14:48.53`	`Tupone`	`you 'll have to delete or the old references, destroy the context, recreate`
`14:49.34`	`trepan`	`if there's no context present while calling function like glLoadIdentity, then it may be accessing invalid memory`
`14:50.01`	`Tupone`	`or destroy and recreate the context, delete all the reference, without accessing GL, rebind them`
`14:50.13`	`*** join/#bzflag Nikaji (~switched@Nikaji.student.supporter.pdpc)`
`14:50.52`	`trepan`	`p.s. this is not a platform issue, this issue appears to be specific to your system at the moment`
`14:50.53`	`Tupone`	`now what is done is: destroy/recreate context, and for each object, sequentially, destroy and recreate gl binding`
`14:50.55`	`Chestal`	`hmm, the call is actualyl not about context creation, but init`
`14:51.04`	`Chestal`	`this seems to onyl do platform independent stuff?`
`14:51.31`	`Chestal`	`trepan I don't trust the platform display/window code at all`
`14:51.48`	`trepan`	`what is done now is to do all of the freeing, and then all the regeneration, in that order, and without any mixing`
`14:51.51`	`Chestal`	`non-SDL Linxu/X11 behaves weird, too, infitinite resize callbacks`
`14:52.17`	`trepan`	`Chestal: nor i, but it seems to work fine for most folks, including linux users`
`14:52.35`	`trepan`	`so this problem is more specific to your system then the generic SDL/Linux case`
`14:52.36`	`Chestal`	`anyway, MaiNWindow seems liek the wrong place to do anythign with the gl context`
`14:53.14`	`Chestal`	`and the dozen resizes are silly, too, trying to find what causes them`
`14:54.05`	`trepan`	`just don't mess it up for the other 99% of the users :)`
`14:55.00`	`Chestal`	`well, SDL/X11 is broken on my machine`
`14:55.06`	`Chestal`	`and I suppseo X11/non-SDL is broken everywhere`
`14:55.22`	`Chestal`	`we could say that we want to get rid of non-SDL platform of course`
`14:55.26`	`Tupone`	`trepan: you changed it some days ago :)`
`14:55.36`	`Chestal`	`but as long as they're in there, they should all work`
`14:56.02`	`Chestal`	`problem is, that's noone understands how thigns work together and it takes about 10 people to test every change`
`14:56.44`	`Chestal`	`that reminds me: is the control panel font supposed to be evenly spaced?`
`15:00.43`	`Tupone`	`I dunno :(`
`15:02.43`	`Tupone`	`trepan: what happens if we delete a binding to GL that do not exists? I guess we need a flag to not delete object if we have destroyed the context`
`15:03.39`	`Chestal`	`uhm, the resize logic make my head hurt :-)`
`15:04.36`	`Tupone`	`I was fighting with, months ago. And I loose`
`15:05.46`	`Chestal`	`it's not quite clear what the several 'windows' are exactly supposed to be`
`15:05.52`	`Chestal`	`and what a resize is`
`15:12.56`	`*** join/#bzflag orchid (orchid@orchid.user)`
`15:13.36`	`Chestal`	`hi orchid, read all your offline docs?`
`15:13.49`	`orchid`	`hi`
`15:14.01`	`orchid`	`actually some, the bash guide I read a little`
`15:14.18`	`Tupone`	`hi orchid`
`15:14.30`	`Grumbler`	`mornin orchid`
`15:15.16`	`orchid`	`Chestal: you can do: for(i=0;i<=10;++i) in a bash script, I didnt know that before :P`
`15:18.01`	`Chestal`	`bash is full of surprises`
`15:18.28`	`orchid`	`yup`
`15:21.49`	`*** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast007@dialup-4.159.47.185.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net)`
`15:34.31`	`*** join/#bzflag blast007_ (~blast@dialup-4.159.50.238.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net)`
`15:35.41`	`*** join/#bzflag blast007__ (~blast007@dialup-4.159.50.238.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net)`
`15:43.12`	`*** join/#bzflag Noodleman (~tuckerm@12-202-135-41.client.insightBB.com)`
`15:45.07`	`Noodleman`	`fnord!`
`15:45.55`	`Nidhoggr`	`hiya Noodleman`
`15:46.31`	`Noodleman`	`hey`
`15:53.34`	`*** join/#bzflag DTRemenak-K6 (0@host-227-213.dialup.innercite.com)`
`15:53.48`	`Noodleman`	`moof`
`15:54.09`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`~dict moof`
`15:58.32`	`Tupone`	`hi DTRemenak-K6`
`15:59.00`	`*** join/#bzflag SportChick (~SportChic@ca-redbch-cuda1-c5b-b-192.stmnca.adelphia.net)`
`16:00.00`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`hi Tupone`
`16:00.13`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`hi SportChick too :)`
`16:01.09`	`Chestal`	`hi DTR`
`16:01.25`	`Chestal`	`DTR: do you know whether the control panel font is supposed to be evenly spaced?`
`16:01.27`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`hi Chestal`
`16:01.39`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`it is not guaranteed to be`
`16:01.43`	`Chestal`	`ok`
`16:02.01`	`Chestal`	`it has some special handling for spaces, but it gives strange results, I don't understan dit`
`16:02.23`	`Chestal`	`e.g., when I have "abcabcabc" and "ab ab ab", the letetrs align`
`16:02.30`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`special handling for spaces?`
`16:02.32`	`Chestal`	`but when I ave "a a a"`
`16:02.38`	`Chestal`	`each space seems to get larger`
`16:02.59`	`Tupone`	`kernings?`
`16:03.08`	`Chestal`	`yes, in TextureFont::drawString`
`16:03.14`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`ah`
`16:03.29`	`Chestal`	`it makes a distinction between space at beginnign of string and later spaces`
`16:04.07`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`hmm, wonder why.`
`16:04.18`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`thanks, ibot`
`16:04.35`	`Chestal`	`you can try it, send a mesasge in bz`
`16:04.39`	`Chestal`	`first tr 'abc d'`
`16:04.43`	`Chestal`	`then 'a d'`
`16:04.48`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`bz does not run on this machine :(`
`16:05.02`	`Chestal`	`in control panel the latter looks like 'a...d'`
`16:05.15`	`Chestal`	`(. used to mark space)`
`16:05.28`	`Chestal`	`if I remove the special handling, it works fine`
`16:05.34`	`Chestal`	`but maybe it breaks something else`
`16:05.55`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`I can't think of any good reason for it. Lemme look at the code.`
`16:06.22`	`Chestal`	`it adds an additional fontMetrics[lastCharacter].whiteSpaceDist`
`16:08.18`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`it looks like it should actually be shorter, though`
`16:08.37`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`since for spaces it uses initialDist + charWidth + whiteSpace`
`16:09.03`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`and for others it uses (last character's) whiteSpace + whiteSpace + initialDist + charWidth`
`16:09.09`	`Chestal`	`no, only for space on beginning of line`
`16:09.13`	`Chestal`	`i == 0`
`16:09.18`	`Chestal`	`the else is for later spaces`
`16:09.42`	`Chestal`	`it adds an additional space depending on the preceding character`
`16:10.00`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`ok, I see now.`
`16:10.36`	`Chestal`	`I guess this is Whitespace from the .fmt file`
`16:10.42`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`I don't see any reason for it to be like that.`
`16:10.43`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`yeah`
`16:10.43`	`Chestal`	`it's large for ' '`
`16:10.53`	`Chestal`	`fo rletters it seems to be mostly 0`
`16:10.58`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`it's taken from the .ttf when the fonts are generated`
`16:11.50`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`if it looks ok without the special handling there, I'd say take it out`
`16:12.11`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`if you wanna know why it's there, ask jeff`
`16:12.30`	`Chestal`	`ok`
`16:13.13`	`Chestal`	`do you know if it would be hard to add special handlign for texture-impaired folks? Right now, font rendering is sloooow if you have no hw texture support`
`16:14.00`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`I don't know. I'd guess that you'd need to implement a second class like TextureFont, and link it in to FontManager`
`16:14.35`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`probably need a generic interface class too`
`16:14.35`	`Chestal`	`hmm, I'm also wonderign what kidn of tetxure mapping is used for the fonts if textures are off`
`16:15.09`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`"none" should be used for fonts always`
`16:15.21`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`I'm not sure if we ever got that set up though`
`16:15.35`	`Chestal`	`fonts look different when I change texture setting`
`16:15.51`	`Chestal`	`this is on my hw machine here`
`16:15.53`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`yeah, when you change it it forces a reload from TM`
`16:16.17`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`it's not necessarily well-managed`
`16:16.47`	`*** join/#bzflag JBdiGriz (~JBdiGriz@adsl-63-204-116-8.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net)`
`16:16.47`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ`
`16:17.05`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`hm, and TF doesn't request a particular mode either, so they're loaded in whatever it's set at.`
`16:17.09`	`Chestal`	`so, it's supposed to be blitted 'as is' to the screen?`
`16:17.18`	`Chestal`	`it seems to undergo the texture filtering which is configured`
`16:17.28`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`ideally. it looks like that was never implemented though.`
`16:18.05`	`Chestal`	`well, it can still be :-)`
`16:18.11`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`hehe`
`16:18.30`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`'twould require some mods to TextureManager to force a particular mode for a texture when loading`
`16:18.43`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`then use that from TF::preLoadLists`
`16:18.57`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`might have potential elsewhere too, not sure`
`16:19.15`	`Chestal`	`ah, hmm`
`16:19.31`	`Chestal`	`if TM knew, it wouldn't even have to reload the font textures I assume?`
`16:19.40`	`Chestal`	`at least not for a texture filtering change`
`16:19.40`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`that could be done`
`16:19.52`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`yeah, they'd have to be reloaded for context changes still`
`16:20.11`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`but actually, FM forces a reload then also`
`16:20.52`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`hm, wonder if they're reloaded twice`
`16:21.26`	`Chestal`	`why can't you run bz there? What kind of machine is tht?`
`16:21.42`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`heh. K6-166 with a 2mb Diamond Stealth :)`
`16:21.56`	`Chestal`	`ok :-)`
`16:21.58`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`and 32 megs of RAM`
`16:22.04`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`seriously underpowerd`
`16:23.11`	`*** join/#bzflag bz7668 (~447f772d@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`16:23.25`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`if I only had a working slot a mobo I could put together a much nicer box out of parts I have lying around :(`
`16:23.51`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`oh well, I'll be back with my primary box in a week or so`
`16:25.39`	`bz7668`	`bzfquery annhiliation.servegame.org`
`16:26.13`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`bz7668: you need a ~ before bzfquery for that to work`
`16:26.20`	`Chestal`	`DTR: I am going for an Athlon64 in a month or so`
`16:26.30`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`nice :)`
`16:26.38`	`DTRemenak-K6`	`I prolly will sometime also`
`16:27.08`	`bz7668`	`~bzfquery annhiliation.servegame.org`
`16:32.04`	`bz7668`	`do you guys know a solution to getting my server on the public list?`
`16:35.02`	`orchid`	`bz7668: if you have a router/firewall open port 5154, also use -publicaddr and -public see this page http://www.bzflag.org/wiki/CreatingAServer#head-133ca2bc4630b04a25b21bc45f3508fb0916c53e`
`16:42.08`	`*** join/#bzflag atharis (~atharis@pc411.pasnet.pascani.rdsnet.ro)`
`16:43.06`	`orchid`	`!bzfs`
`16:43.36`	`*** join/#bzflag guu (guu@myth.gibbscam.com)`
`16:43.56`	`SportChick`	`hi dtremenak! what's with the -K6?`
`16:53.19`	`CIA-4`	`BZFlag: 03chestal * 10bzflag/ (include/OSFile.h src/common/OSFile.cxx): formatting`
`16:57.15`	`cosmos`	`-bzfquery hepcat.org`
`16:57.24`	`cosmos`	`oops`
`16:57.39`	`cosmos`	`~ [3~[3~`
`17:00.03`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~JeffM@216-190-167-2.bras01.sho.az.frontiernet.net)`
`17:07.41`	`*** join/#bzflag tupone_laptop (~atupone@84.222.139.15)`
`17:22.42`	`*** join/#bzflag amathis (~amathis@cpe-024-165-186-204.midsouth.rr.com)`
`17:25.58`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-3 (~CIA@to.je.spocco.com)`
`17:38.32`	`*** join/#bzflag lp2 (gfabasic@otto-29.wireless.bright.net)`
`18:01.06`	`*** join/#bzflag RP1 (~RPG@c-24-15-87-171.client.comcast.net)`
`18:03.06`	`lp2`	`anyone osx users here? how does one lock a guided missile with one mouse button? ;-))`
`18:03.42`	`RP1`	`good point`
`18:03.59`	`RP1`	`pressing i would work, i think`
`18:23.33`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-3 (~CIA@to.je.spocco.com)`
`18:29.05`	`orange`	`well, now, apple says you don't need more than one button, so work it out with them :-)`
`18:29.17`	`orange`	`I have no clue... keyboard seems your only option, actually`
`18:39.32`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar (~anonymous@adsl-67-123-173-76.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`18:46.40`	`*** join/#bzflag \|zongo\| (~zongo@lsn-boi-catv-c121-p004.vtx.ch)`
`18:49.04`	`*** join/#bzflag IceDrake (~44afeefd@rw08.de)`
`18:50.22`	`IceDrake`	`register boo`
`18:51.30`	`wegstar`	`"/register boo"`
`19:03.32`	`*** join/#bzflag SilverFox (SilverFox@68-116-47-254.or.charter.com)`
`19:03.49`	`*** join/#bzflag nilson (nilson@pcp03331736pcs.tsclos01.al.comcast.net)`
`19:11.37`	`*** join/#bzflag \|atharis (~atharis@pc411.pasnet.pascani.rdsnet.ro)`
`19:14.17`	`*** join/#bzflag birdie (~birdie@d51A5325E.kabel.telenet.be)`
`19:20.02`	`*** join/#bzflag kawsy (~0c18f846@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`19:59.38`	`*** join/#bzflag nilson (nilson@pcp03331736pcs.tsclos01.al.comcast.net)`
`20:19.53`	`orchid`	`hi Quol`
`20:20.26`	`orchid`	`~x es en mujer`
`20:22.33`	`Quol`	`hello orchid - how are ya?`
`20:22.45`	`Quol`	`you staying warm these days?`
`20:22.55`	`orchid`	`somewhat yep`
`20:24.04`	`orchid`	`your not working today I take it?`
`20:24.06`	`Quol`	`that's good...we are freezing our tails off over here these past few days..`
`20:24.17`	`Quol`	`nope - I go back on wednesday`
`20:24.26`	`Quol`	`you?`
`20:24.34`	`orchid`	`monday 3rd :)`
`20:24.43`	`Quol`	`ahh - that's nice`
`20:24.52`	`Quol`	`so you can play BZFlag for days on end - like old times :)`
`20:25.27`	`orchid`	`well, perhaps, in 10-15 min bursts :)`
`20:25.34`	`Quol`	`lol`
`20:25.55`	`Quol`	`10 - 15 minutes of bz every 15 - 20 minutes =:)`
`20:26.16`	`orchid`	`:) not that bad`
`20:26.45`	`Quol`	`you are right - every half hour...`
`20:27.02`	`Quol`	`oh wait - that was me :)`
`20:37.19`	`*** join/#bzflag tuponet (~tuponet@84.220.23.77)`
`20:38.21`	`orchid`	`ciao tuponet`
`20:38.32`	`tuponet`	`ciao orchid`
`20:39.10`	`*** join/#bzflag nilson (nilson@pcp03331736pcs.tsclos01.al.comcast.net)`
`20:46.11`	`*** join/#bzflag ep (mdr@ip68-97-124-161.ok.ok.cox.net)`
`20:51.57`	`Chestal`	`hmm, what are smoke, mountain4 and explode3 textures (bzflag -debug -debug)?`
`20:57.22`	`bryjen`	`iirc, it loads mountainX, where X starts at 1 and increments until no longer found`
`20:57.51`	`bryjen`	`perhaps the same with explode?`
`21:00.48`	`Chestal`	`ah`
`21:01.11`	*** join/#bzflag kyelewis` (~kyelewis@203.46.65.139)
`21:01.23`	`Chestal`	`smoke seems to belong to the trackmarks somehow`
`21:02.45`	`*** join/#bzflag Noodleman (~tuckerm@12-202-135-10.client.insightBB.com)`
`21:03.33`	`bryjen`	`there was talk of doing exhaust trails in the air similar to tracks on the ground`
`21:08.56`	`bryjen`	`hehe. use patlabor's bubble rain texture for exhaust -- tanks that blow bubbles as they drive :)`
`21:23.13`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar (~anonymous@adsl-67-123-173-76.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`21:23.31`	`wegstar`	`Is it possible to host two servers on one computer?`
`21:25.10`	`orchid`	`wegstar: sure`
`21:25.29`	`orchid`	`use differnt ports thats all`
`21:27.52`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-4 (~CIA@to.je.spocco.com)`
`21:28.56`	`*** join/#bzflag bz0982 (~45e40c22@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`21:29.05`	`wegstar`	`ok`
`21:29.58`	`*** join/#bzflag bz0694 (~45e40c22@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`21:30.34`	`bz0694`	`~bzfquery annhiliation.servegame.org`
`21:30.49`	`wegstar`	`strange... it won't pick up my conf file...`
`21:31.09`	`bz0694`	`~bzfquery annhiliation.servegame.org`
`21:31.45`	`wegstar`	`nevermind`
`21:33.03`	`*** join/#bzflag edini (~edini@edini.net)`
`21:51.43`	`*** join/#bzflag amathis (~amathis@cpe-024-165-186-204.midsouth.rr.com)`
`21:59.08`	`CIA-4`	`BZFlag: 03chestal * 10bzflag/ (7 files in 5 dirs):`
`21:59.08`	`CIA-4`	`BZFlag: fix some unsafe c_str() nastiness; change most of OSFile from char* to`
`21:59.08`	`CIA-4`	`BZFlag: std::string along the way, adjust other files as needed; counter slowdown by`
`21:59.08`	`CIA-4`	`BZFlag: enhancing some parts, so now it is actually faster than before; I hope Windows`
`21:59.08`	`CIA-4`	`BZFlag: still works, needs testing`
`22:01.15`	`*** join/#bzflag huwr (~huwr@CPE-203-51-24-14.nsw.bigpond.net.au)`
`22:01.24`	`CIA-4`	`BZFlag: 03chestal * 10bzflag/BUGS: typo and even more info on resize problem`
`22:06.22`	`bryjen`	FontManager.cxx: In member function `void
`22:06.23`	`bryjen`	`<PROTECTED>`
`22:06.25`	`bryjen`	`<PROTECTED>`
`22:06.26`	`bryjen`	FontManager.cxx:168: warning: cannot pass objects of non-POD type `struct
`22:06.28`	`bryjen`	`<PROTECTED>`
`22:06.29`	`bryjen`	`Chestal?`
`22:08.28`	`Chestal`	`let me check`
`22:09.52`	`CIA-4`	`BZFlag: 03chestal * 10bzflag/src/3D/FontManager.cxx: add .c_str() for DEBUG4`
`22:10.07`	`Chestal`	`not sure why it compiled for me`
`22:11.14`	`CIA-4`	`BZFlag: 03chestal * 10bzflag/ (man/bzflag.6s src/bzflag/bzflag.cxx): add -debug to client -help and manpage`
`22:18.23`	`Chestal`	`bryjen: does it work now?`
`22:18.36`	`bryjen`	`yes. thanks`
`22:21.28`	`CIA-4`	`BZFlag: 03chestal * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/ServerLink.cxx: when connecting server, only print low-level information (UDP downlink etc.) if debugLevel >=1`
`22:22.23`	`*** join/#bzflag birdie (~birdie@d51A5325E.kabel.telenet.be)`
`22:22.31`	`CIA-4`	`BZFlag: 03chestal * 10bzflag/ChangeLog: -debug`
`22:25.17`	`bryjen`	`compiles and runs`
`22:26.00`	`Chestal`	`not many servers to choose from right now`
`22:28.47`	`Nidhoggr`	`~bzflist`
`22:29.48`	`bryjen`	`Chestal: it was not mapped. mapped it to F1, then pressed. Bang! core dump`
`22:30.01`	`Chestal`	`ah, good :-)`
`22:30.04`	`Chestal`	`happens to me, too`
`22:30.10`	`bryjen`	`uhm`
`22:30.15`	`Chestal`	`which Linux is it?`
`22:30.19`	`Chestal`	`what video card?`
`22:30.38`	`Chestal`	`go to src/bzflag/MainWindow.cxx:241`
`22:30.48`	`Chestal`	`comment out // OpenGLGState::initContext();`
`22:31.01`	`bryjen`	`Slackware 9. a bit old. Matrox G450`
`22:31.11`	`Chestal`	`hmm, I got a Matrox, too, G400`
`22:31.18`	`Chestal`	`on Debian, though`
`22:31.50`	`Chestal`	`bzflag is one of the few apps, where the mosuewheel is actually useful IMHO :-)`
`22:34.40`	`bryjen`	`hmm, backtraceing... SceneRenderer, BackgroundRenderer::drawSky, __driUtilCreateScreen ick`
`22:35.52`	`*** join/#bzflag TimRiker (timr@TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`22:35.53`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ`
`22:36.18`	`*** join/#bzflag Legoguy (~Lego\|Desk@adsl-67-36-176-141.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net)`
`22:37.10`	`bryjen`	`XFree86 Version 4.3.0, Linux 2.4.28`
`22:37.27`	`Chestal`	`bryjen: yes, same place for crash. Have you tried the change in MainWindow?`
`22:37.33`	`Chestal`	`hi Tim`
`22:39.01`	`bryjen`	`just now. toggle works great with that change`
`22:39.08`	`CIA-4`	`BZFlag: 03chestal * 10bzflag/misc/bzfquery.pl: bump protocol version in bzfquery.pl; miight have to be adjusted for new info in gae query message?`
`22:44.59`	`TimRiker`	`been out with the flu for a few days`
`22:46.21`	`CIA-4`	`BZFlag: 03timriker * 10web/cgi-bin/moin_config.py: require login, enable email`
`22:52.01`	`Chestal`	`bryjen: with lighting=best it works pretty good for me`
`22:52.19`	`Chestal`	`bryjen: with "fast", it's somewhat unpredictable`
`22:52.27`	`bryjen`	`getting "error connecting to server" now`
`22:52.29`	`bryjen`	`:(`
`22:52.46`	`Chestal`	`yes, obviously it crashed`
`22:52.51`	`Chestal`	`after you left`
`22:53.17`	`bryjen`	`ping orchid`
`22:53.57`	`orchid`	`I will look`
`22:56.35`	`orchid`	`looks like its not running`
`22:57.05`	`orchid`	`its ran in a screen, and screen wont let me attach to it, even as root, its tupone's screen`
`22:57.35`	`Chestal`	`my server crashed, too`
`22:57.48`	`Chestal`	`when the other guy left`
`22:58.19`	`Chestal`	`hmm, that must be new`
`22:58.33`	`orchid`	`decks.sh: line 2: 1673 Segmentation fault ~/valgrind/bin/valgrind --leak-check=yes --logfile=bzfs dist/bzfs -conf decks.conf`
`22:59.03`	`orchid`	`should be running now`
`23:13.10`	`*** join/#bzflag ep (mdr@ip68-97-124-161.ok.ok.cox.net)`
`23:15.13`	`*** join/#bzflag Tupone (Tupone@84.222.139.15)`
`23:17.04`	`TimRiker`	`cvs servers are crashing now? know why?`
`23:17.16`	`*** join/#bzflag Legoguy (~Lego\|Desk@adsl-67-36-176-141.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net)`
`23:19.28`	`orchid`	`dont know why the server crashed`
`23:24.03`	`TimRiker`	`Chestal: MsgPlayerInfo could really be used for autopilot and paused as additional bits.`
`23:25.26`	`Chestal`	`yes, possibly`
`23:25.43`	`Chestal`	`although Pause might be different`
`23:25.49`	`Chestal`	`paused is a bit in PlayerState right now`
`23:26.00`	`Chestal`	`I put autopilot there, too, at first, but it was a mistake`
`23:26.17`	`TimRiker`	`why?`
`23:26.22`	`Chestal`	`PlayerState is suppused to have all bits zeroed out if a player dies, at least the code makes that assumption`
`23:26.29`	`TimRiker`	`and why do you remove the (void)s ?`
`23:26.54`	`Chestal`	`I find the voids unusual style, rest of bzflag doesn't use it either, or am I mistaken?`
`23:27.01`	`TimRiker`	`re player state. ahh.`
`23:27.24`	`Chestal`	`bzfs has a severe problem right now, crashed often when a player leaves, investigating...`
`23:28.39`	`TimRiker`	`I don't know of any compilers that require or forbid the (void)s but I would expect that it might generate more warnings if they are included. I'd prefer to add them unless anyone knows a reason not to.`
`23:29.06`	`Chestal`	`(void) is C style IMHO, it's still allowed in C++, but normally not used`
`23:29.08`	`CIA-4`	`BZFlag: 03trepan * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/DropGeometry.cxx: delete[], not delete (and save some memory allocation time)`
`23:29.20`	`Chestal`	`for the compier, it is exactly the same`
`23:33.58`	`TimRiker`	`don't feel strongly one way or the other.`
`23:34.09`	`Chestal`	`ok, I can reproduce server crash now`
`23:34.22`	`Chestal`	`it seems to crash when player at slot 0 leaves`
`23:36.26`	`TimRiker`	`bzadmin output is messes up now.. seems to echo msgs twice.`
`23:36.41`	`TimRiker`	`oh.. never mind. had the server in the same window...`
`23:36.47`	`Chestal`	`hmm, so much for my theory, player at slot 2 left, crashes it, too. Doesn'T seem to happen when 0 and 1 are there and 1 leaves, though`
`23:36.54`	`Chestal`	`:-)`
`23:36.58`	`CIA-4`	`BZFlag: 03trepan * 10bzflag/src/common/Flag.cxx: Flags::kill() also cleans out flagSets`
`23:38.06`	`purple_cow`	`TimRiker: i don't think any compiler modern enough to deal with bzflag cares about () vs (void)`
`23:40.31`	`TimRiker`	`purple_cow: probably not. though I don't give a lot of faith to things like the solaris compilers.`
`23:41.54`	`Chestal`	`TimRiker: on the idea to release: I think we should decide which things need to really be done before that, then think of how to get some proper testing`
`23:42.22`	`Chestal`	`and no more new features I'd say`
`23:42.29`	`TimRiker`	`Chestal: I'm open to suggestions.`
`23:42.47`	`Chestal`	`and it would be great if some poor slave would bring the network protocol doc up to date :-)`
`23:43.02`	`Chestal`	`TimRiker: well, right now there seem to be some issues which need to be fixed`
`23:43.25`	`Chestal`	`1) server crash, 2) some GL issues, need to talk to learner tomorrow`
`23:43.26`	`TimRiker`	`no new flags, game modes, etc. bug fixing welcome.`
`23:43.43`	`Chestal`	`non-SDL X11 is somewhat hosed`
`23:43.52`	`TimRiker`	`need to get regular builds out for wider testing. I've started doing debian builds.`
`23:43.57`	`Chestal`	`can we go all the way to SDL? or better not?`
`23:44.09`	`*** join/#bzflag blast007_away (~blast@dialup-4.159.62.245.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net)`
`23:44.10`	`Chestal`	`SDL does not work on 8bit for now`
`23:44.22`	`Chestal`	`and the font rendering is slooow without HW textures`
`23:44.27`	`Chestal`	`these are the issued from my point of view`
`23:44.36`	`TimRiker`	`what's wrong with non-SDL X11? and can 8bit SDL be fixed?`
`23:45.05`	`Chestal`	`TimRiker: I had non-SDL in an endless resize loop yesterday with fullscreen`
`23:45.16`	`Chestal`	`resizing is somewhat messed up anyway`
`23:45.30`	`Chestal`	`if resizing is cheap, it's no problem, we got _lots_ of calls to resizing`
`23:45.42`	`Chestal`	`but curent version recreates gl context, which can be expensive`
`23:45.54`	`Tupone`	`from my poor analysis 8 bit SDL is an SDL problem looking for alpha and getting RGB instead of pseudocolor`
`23:45.58`	`Chestal`	`but we need peopel for the major platforms here, ideally at the same time`
`23:46.29`	`Chestal`	`sadly, I forgot all about the SDL 8 bit problem, I tried to analyze it some months ago`
`23:46.38`	`Chestal`	`Tupone: but I probably haven't gotten further than you've got`
`23:47.02`	`Tupone`	`I asked you to make a little test recompiling SDL, :(`
`23:47.14`	`Chestal`	`'little' :-)`
`23:47.25`	`Tupone`	`just to know if that is the problem`
`23:47.41`	`*** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast007@dialup-4.159.62.245.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net)`
`23:47.46`	`Chestal`	`maybe one of these days`
`23:48.07`	`Chestal`	`there also is a differnce on my teo machines`
`23:48.11`	`TimRiker`	`need someone to sign up for making regular win* builds.`
`23:48.12`	`Chestal`	`diffeernt visuals in 8 bit mode`
`23:49.51`	`Chestal`	`uhm, fonts on the sky now`
`23:49.51`	`Tupone`	`The problem, infact are the visuals, in my opinion`
`23:49.51`	`Tupone`	`actually the algorithm SDL uses to select it`
`23:50.45`	`Chestal`	`I think I asked on the sdl channel once`
`23:50.51`	`Chestal`	`but got no useful answers`
`23:53.42`	`Tupone`	`well, I read the code, and hurt me :)`
`23:54.13`	`Chestal`	`how does valgrind work? can I just run my app with it?`
`23:54.54`	`Tupone`	`yeah, -g is better`
`23:55.18`	`*** join/#bzflag doughecka_ (~Doug@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net)`

Generated by irclog2html.pl by Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc.