irclog2html for #bzflag on 20031013

00:00.02*** join/#bzflag triclops (~triclops@203-219-160-62-nsw.tpgi.com.au)
00:06.41*** part/#bzflag fhffhqvb (fhff@81.68.135.141)
01:19.35*** join/#bzflag Carnage (strayer@dyn216-8-132-61.ADSL.mnsi.net)
01:58.54*** join/#bzflag bryjen (bryjen@ky-owensboro1a-242.owboky.adelphia.net)
02:03.15learner:)
02:03.57learnerwell.. I'm having fun, even if the channel is having fun "playing dead" :)
02:04.06learnerlol
02:04.08JBDiGriz"roll over"
02:04.11JBDiGriz"speak"
02:04.32JBDiGrizTMI
02:04.42learnerhehe
02:05.32JBDiGrizbrlcad wasn't updating automatically before. I tried with the new 1.9.7 and it was still at 1.9.6
02:05.43learnerI noticed the comment..
02:06.03learnerIt's set to every 20 minutes now, but your comment was about 45 minutes after the commit
02:06.22JBDiGrizI tend to assume that it's hard to check every comment when you come back to the channel ;)
02:06.35JBDiGrizHas it reset now?
02:06.41learnerIt's presently up to date, afaikt
02:07.07learnerit often is too hard, but then I can always grep the logfile for brlcad and learner :)
02:07.26JBDiGrizNope, it's still at 1.9.6.
02:09.02learnerhrm... there's nothing to cvs update, and nothing to build
02:09.15learnerperhaps bzadmin.. oh..
02:09.21*** join/#bzflag Spiffy (Owner@ilslvn01.one-eleven.net)
02:09.32*** mode/#bzflag [+o Spiff] by ChanServ
02:09.45SpiffHi peoples. :)
02:10.05JBDiGrizsshhhh, be vewy quiet, i'm hunting wabbits.
02:10.18learnerthat would cause old bzadmin to not be able to connect to new server, I bet
02:10.39learnerhrm.. but its still the _old_ server....
02:11.04ElmerFuddHarrumph, someone else has taken that nick.
02:11.44ElmerJFuddNot too many people know his middle initial. heheheheheheh
02:14.01RoadRunnermeep meep
02:15.08SpiffMeep, eh?  Did you ever play with the guy who used the callsign "Meep?"
02:15.27DudleyDoRightNope ;)
02:15.50SpiffHe was really cool.  It's been probabily six or seven months since he was around under that callsign though.
02:16.22DudleyDoRightNot too many cool new players. Most of them are just looking to brag about how good they are.
02:16.39SpiffLoL
02:16.40SpiffThat bites.
02:17.12DudleyDoRightAnd of course they start with the foul language when they realize that they're not as good as they think :)
02:18.36SpiffNaturally.  Sportsmanship.... seems to be dead.
02:27.49WileECoyoteDudleyDoRight: hrm. seems to be two separate problems that masked the server reset
02:28.48WileECoyoteit's telling me that it is, in fact 1.9.7 now (since you disconnected at 11:51 PDT
02:30.33WileECoyotesee the tail of http://brlcad.org/server.log to see
02:31.35DudleyDoRighthmm, i just tried connecting with a 1.9.7 client, and it didn't show up. That connection was with a 1.9.6 client.
02:31.40DudleyDoRightI'll doublecheck
02:32.59DudleyDoRightTis a problem with the bzflist. It appears in the 1.9.6 client list, but I can't connect due to an incompatible server version.
02:33.19DudleyDoRightIt doesn't appear in the 1.9.7 client, but I can connect if I type in the parameters.
02:35.28WileECoyote*poof*
02:35.50DudleyDoRight"poof" "POOF"
02:40.01*** join/#bzflag MrApathyCream (MAC@balt-209-163-100-116.qis-dynamic-dialup.coretel.net)
02:46.15WileECoyoteJB: did you get a chance to check out the gamma control yet?
02:49.00sn0w_panthercya
02:49.10sn0w_pantherjust finished Secretplace
02:49.16sn0w_panthernscore of 308
02:49.21sn0w_pantherbye
02:54.14*** join/#bzflag Big_Barrel (~chatzilla@adsl-64-219-213-203.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net)
02:54.24SpiffHiya Quol. :)
02:54.32Big_Barrelhey quol
02:54.35Quolheya Spiff
02:54.37Big_Barrelone sec man
02:54.39Quolheya BB
02:54.47Spiff'lo Barrel.
02:54.48Big_Barrelhey spiff
02:54.57Big_Barrelwhat you up to?
02:55.29SpiffJust chillin' out.. killing time until I can go home in the morning. :-D
02:55.29SpiffYou?
03:04.37Quolhey Coyote/learner
03:04.52learnerhowdy quol :)
03:05.33Quolbed time for this BZer
03:05.48Quolsee you all later
03:05.57Big_Barrelnot much with me spiff
03:06.05Big_Barrelquol just joined HoW
03:06.14*** join/#bzflag bzgirl (~aec@toronto-hs-64-26-176-100.s-ip.magma.ca)
03:06.15learnerg'night quol
03:06.22Big_Barrelhi bzg
03:06.28bzgirlhello
03:08.32DudleyDoRightI haven't tried gamma yet
03:08.54learnerAll I can say is "worked for me", so I'm curious how it does for you
03:10.20JBDiGrizHow would I know it is working?
03:10.36learnergo to the options and set it brighter/darker
03:11.04JBDiGrizIt's been awfully dark lately on your server, I was playing with the time adjustment yesterday.
03:12.42JBDiGrizBrightness works, but the clouds are not looking particularly smooth
03:19.35Big_BarrelJB: go meet DM on ducati
03:23.51SpiffHmm.  Maybe you should join ProXS too, learner. ;-)
03:24.03Big_Barrellol
03:24.22Big_BarrelproXS=proconstipation XS
03:25.13*** join/#bzflag |tim| (~|tim|@ip68-106-184-191.sb.sd.cox.net)
03:25.18procrastinatorHeh
03:25.21SpiffHmmm Barrel... LoL.
03:25.42Spiffhttp://i20.ebayimg.com/03/i/00/bb/14/26_1_s.JPG
03:25.54SpiffExcuse me while I drool on my keyboard. ;-)
03:26.38procrastinatorI'd probably fit in rather well with those guys, but I'm not interested in leaving BzR
03:26.58SpiffThe ProXS guys are cool. :)
03:28.34JBDiGrizbb wishes he could be cool enough to be a proconstipator ;)
03:28.59SpiffHmmm.
03:29.45Big_Barrelwhat is that a 3000gt?
03:29.58CIA03dbrosius * 12bzflag/ (BUGS): Troublesome bug
03:30.24SpiffYes. :)
03:30.31SpiffMy fav. car. ;-)
03:30.37Big_Barrelboo
03:31.05SpiffOf course... I'm a Chevy guy...... but I'll make an exception for that car... it's just flat out beautiful. :)
03:31.24Big_Barrelyou should be drooling over this>>>http://www.fast-autos.net/photoarchive/dodge/acr14.html
03:31.51SpiffEwww... a Dodge. ;)
03:32.04Big_Barrelnot just a dodge
03:32.08Big_Barrela VIper
03:32.20Big_Barrelthat would crush that 3000gt
03:32.25Big_Barrelturbo or not
03:32.56SpiffI really don't care. :)   The 3000GT is prettier in my eyes.
03:33.04Big_Barrelhmmm
03:33.09Spiff'Sides... I'm not buying a car to race it... just to look good and get around.
03:33.17Big_Barrelhmmm
03:33.23SpiffAnd the Viper doesn't have a back seat. :)
03:33.24Big_Barrelthey don't make 3000gt anymore
03:33.36Big_Barrelwho needs a back seat
03:33.51Big_Barrelif you can afford a viper you probabally have a BMW as well
03:34.45SpiffSo?  They don't make the nice ol' Impala's anymore.. at least not the *real* ones... doesn't make them lesser cars. :)
03:34.52SpiffLoL.. but I can't.  So... oh well. ;)
03:35.22Spiff300GT= Pretty, fast, cheap, and somewhat roomy.. :)
03:35.47Spiff3000GT^
03:36.23Big_Barrelwell i think we can both agree on this then>> http://community.webshots.com/photo/45343441/45343951DTcpyk
03:36.41Big_Barrelfuck the back seat :)
03:36.54Big_Barrelzo6 is one bad mofo
03:37.20Big_Barrelwhat you are married w/ a kid or something?? lol
03:37.24Big_Barrelwhy do you need a back seat ????
03:38.13SpiffI'm not married.. and I have no kids.  Answer that question for yourself. ;)
03:38.15SpiffLoL
03:38.15SpiffJ/k
03:38.27SpiffAnd yes.. that 'Vette is pretttttty nice.
03:38.49SpiffBut that's another car I can't afford. ;)
03:39.27SpiffI was actually thinkin' of a back seat.. 'cause I have a *lot* of friends.. and sometimes my friends need a ride. :)
03:40.02Big_Barrelwait
03:40.07Big_Barrelhere is my dream linup
03:42.24Big_Barrelthe Viper ACR, Vette Z06, this ( http://www.bmw.com/generic/com/en/products/automobiles/showroom/7series/sedan/index.html ) BMW 7.45, and this ( http://www.bmw.com/generic/com/en/products/automobiles/showroom/mseries/m3/index.html ) BMW M3
03:42.36Big_Barreland a big ass truck
03:42.42Big_Barreland i would have it made :)
03:43.07Big_Barrelwhen you become old enough to drive then the driving friends around gets really old
03:43.15SpiffI wouldn't mind having an Avalanche... those rock. :)
03:43.16Big_Barreltrust me
03:43.30Big_Barrelhmmm, maybe a prosche chyanne for me
03:43.31SpiffOld enough to drive?!?  Pfffff.  I've been driving for a couple of years now! :P
03:43.33SpiffLoL
03:43.40Big_Barreli though you were 15
03:43.42Spiffhttp://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/PORT/PTW_131.jpg
03:43.52Spiff*That* is the car I'd like to have.. ;)
03:43.53Big_Barrellmao
03:44.04Big_Barrelyeah, try 6.1 million dollars
03:44.07Spiff0-60 in 3.2 seconds... top speed of 278.... ;-)
03:44.38SpiffWell... I might as well dream big. :-D
03:45.02Big_Barrelwell this would spank it >>  http://www.supercars.net/Pic?s=7&y=2000&m=Dodge&o=Hennessey%20Viper%20Venom%20800TT&p=http://www.supercars.net/servlets/PW/garagePics/GottaBeKD/6car0.jpg&b=http://www.supercars.net/garages/GottaBeKD/6v2.html
03:45.07SpiffAnd.. no.. I will turn 18 at the beginning of December. :)
03:45.16Big_Barrelah i though you were 15
03:45.19Big_Barrelmy mistake
03:45.43Big_Barrellook at the meat on those tires!!!!!!! omg!!!!!!!!
03:45.49Big_Barreli want to cream my pants
03:45.53Big_Barreljust looking at it
03:45.55Big_Barrellol
03:46.04SpiffNo biggie. :-)
03:46.23Big_Barrel2.4 sec 0-60
03:46.40SpiffYou should really develop a less vulgar vocabulary. :)
03:46.50CIA03dbrosius * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (playing.cxx): robots now blow up when they're teams flag is captured
03:46.55SpiffOr at least a little more socially appropriate.
03:46.58Big_Barrel~dict cream
03:47.23*** part/#bzflag bzgirl (~aec@toronto-hs-64-26-176-100.s-ip.magma.ca)
03:47.24Big_Barrelwhat are you talking about?
03:47.26Big_Barrellol
03:47.40procrastinatormy viper...
03:47.50Big_Barrelmy viper god dammit!!!!
03:47.55SpiffAhh.. thought you said crap.. LoL.   Either way... still seems like it could be kinda nasty.
03:47.58Big_Barrellol
03:48.22Big_Barrellearner just look at my dream linup
03:48.22SpiffI think you scared bzgirl off. :P
03:48.26Big_Barrelscroll up to the links
03:48.27SpiffI'm off guys... bed time.  LoL
03:48.30Big_Barreland you will drool
03:48.30SpiffLaterz. :-)
03:48.33Big_Barrelcu
03:48.40Big_Barrelcu guys
04:08.29MrApathyCreamtime to feed the horsies, bbiab
04:08.36procrastinatorhow many?
04:09.50MrApathyCream8
04:10.01procrastinatorwow, that's a lot of feed
04:10.06MrApathyCreamyup
04:10.11MrApathyCreambe back in 15mins
04:25.23procrastinatorhe's late :)
04:38.03MrApathyCreamback
04:40.27CIA03dbrosius * 12bzflag/ (BUGS): more
04:49.03*** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~jeffm@adsl-64-172-197-103.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net)
04:49.03*** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ
04:54.56Patlabor221jbd I'll make a 1.9.6 build when I get to work
05:11.54procrastinatoryou mean 1.9.7?
05:12.09Patlabor221is that version taged?
05:12.23learnerhe was supposed to do it sometime tonight
05:12.29learnerdon't know if he did it yet
05:12.55Patlabor221if it is, then yes
05:14.00learnerthe number's already been bumped, just needs to be tagged
05:14.10learneryes.. cvs log says it hasn't been tagged yet
05:14.13Patlabor221why wasn't it taged at the same time
05:14.16Patlabor221?
05:14.27Patlabor221has tehre been any changes since?
05:14.32learnerchestal bumped it when he broke protocol, but it was untested
05:14.45Patlabor221ahh
05:15.19Patlabor221cus it should be bumped and taged at the same time, as I thought that was the point of it all
05:15.20learnerhey, at this rate, maybe we'll auto roll over to 1.10.0 after 1.9.9 =)
05:15.31Patlabor221no 1.9.10
05:15.34learneror 2.0.0 :)
05:15.46learnerI know, I'm jesting
05:15.50Patlabor221I know :)
05:16.13learnerpay no mind to the guy with a few negra modelos in him
05:16.33Patlabor221I drank the worlds largest movie soda a bit ago
05:16.35Patlabor221got a headake now
05:16.39learnerheh
05:16.47learnerwhich movie?
05:16.52Patlabor221Kill Bill
05:17.33learnerI almost went to see that tonight as well
05:17.34learnerany good?
05:17.43Patlabor221it's
05:17.46Patlabor221umm
05:17.48Patlabor221well
05:17.54Patlabor221it's not bad
05:17.55learnerheh
05:17.59Patlabor221but it will not be what you expect
05:18.04Patlabor221it's very entertaining
05:18.06learneryou're saying it's an average tarantino film? :)
05:18.24Patlabor221it's "out there" for a tarantino film
05:18.28learnerAll I'm "expecting" is Uma  :)
05:18.38Patlabor221that's why I say it will not be what you expect
05:18.55Patlabor221she has really nasty feet
05:19.00learnerlol
05:19.13Patlabor221when they are 15 feet high
05:20.17Patlabor221many many parts of it are very funny
05:20.29Patlabor221if you find the type of humor it is funny
05:20.38Patlabor221spiffy, would hate the movie
05:20.59learnerheh
05:21.09learnersounds like I have something to do tomorrow outside of this channel :)
05:21.19Patlabor221yeah you should see it
05:28.23CIA03dbrosius * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (playing.cxx): Roger decides to turn quicker when players are > 30 degrees out of aim
05:28.58MrApathyCreamlearner... ththttheeerththeese somethign outside the channel?
05:29.52learnerMAC: no, no of course not.. now get back to those bugs.. mkay?
05:30.00Patlabor221just think of the outside as a REALLY big channel
05:30.05MrApathyCreamphew, you had me scared there for awhile
05:30.06Patlabor221in a blue room, with that one light
05:31.25learner~quol
05:31.32JBDiGrizwe're gone
05:31.53learnerwho is "king kong"??  sussudio?
05:32.21JBDiGrizasdf
05:32.30learnerreally??
05:32.42JBDiGrizHe was a far better player than sussudio, but he has his attitude problem.
05:32.46learnermy god I've never seen that side of him
05:32.53MrApathyCreamarg, it's irritating the bots have to choose your color
05:32.55JBDiGrizAll the time.
05:33.18JBDiGrizHe really takes it out on new players if they're on his team. He hates to lose.
05:33.43JBDiGrizI was surprised we did so well against that team, they had some great players there.
05:33.46learnerIf that was asdf, I'm surprised he wasn't doing better =)
05:34.09JBDiGrizHis score was up there considering everyone who was in the battle.
05:34.27learnerI had a better ratio against all but him, and we were close.. He usually has me at _least_ 2-1
05:34.47JBDiGrizAlmost everyone there is in the top two pages of the ladders.
05:34.49Patlabor221asdf has been known to do that
05:34.53learnerbut we certainly had their teamwork beat :)
05:35.01JBDiGrizYou were doing great, really on target tonight.
05:35.15purple_cowwoooo
05:35.16purple_cowsg1 :)
05:35.25JBDiGrizWe had the attitude of going out and having fun, and working together. :)
05:35.27purple_cowscanline's parents decided to buy season 4 for us
05:35.32learnerit felt like I might be back up to par for my game
05:35.33Patlabor221got them re-riped?
05:35.46Patlabor221ahh, season 4 is the best I've seen yet
05:35.57JBDiGrizIf everyone is done with changes for the evening, I'll tag 1.9.7
05:36.22Patlabor221I have to move an icon tomrow, but it should be fine to tag now
05:37.30JBDiGrizMrAC was doing some work on the bots earlier, I don't know if he has something to add.
05:37.42learnerSpeaking of such.. Pat, could you make a 1024x1024 high-quality of the tank -shadow?
05:38.02Patlabor221the render I did?
05:38.11Patlabor221or just the normal tank?
05:38.12learneryup
05:38.16JBDiGrizActually I want one of the tank blowing into little pieces. I think it would be more appropriate for my game. :)
05:38.20Patlabor221it had a shadow?
05:39.21learnerthe icon render.. a big one with nice jittered supersampling, shiny, multiple light rays, but no ground shadow (just the tank)
05:39.35Patlabor221it didn't have a ground shadow
05:39.39Patlabor221not in the render
05:39.47Patlabor221I added the shadow in photoshop
05:39.48learneryes, it had a shadow.. unless you manually added that
05:39.51learnerah
05:39.58learnercool then :)
05:40.03Patlabor221a true ground shadow would be totaly difrent
05:40.11Patlabor221I'll have to run the render again
05:40.19Patlabor221as I only did it at 256x
05:40.24learnerI guessed, but wasn't sure..
05:40.27Patlabor221what do you need one so large for?
05:40.39learnera resource for later
05:40.59Patlabor221umm ok
05:41.00learner512 would probably work, but 1024 is safe
05:41.01JBDiGrizI'm starting the tag process, first make sure current builds and runs.
05:41.34Patlabor221it'll take a goodly long while to render that
05:41.36learnerPlus, you're probably one of a very select few who have access to lightwave :)
05:41.43Patlabor221can't do it till tomorow
05:41.51learnerno problem, no rush
05:41.51Patlabor221the model is an OBJ
05:42.06Patlabor221should open in any app
05:42.22learnerbut they don't all render as well as lightwave
05:42.24Patlabor221I should render the new tank
05:42.31learnernew tank?
05:42.41Patlabor221max, povray, mia, and truespace all should
05:42.44Patlabor221as well as blender
05:42.50Patlabor221when I redid the bz tank
05:43.16learnerpic?
05:43.22Patlabor221looking for it
05:43.26Patlabor221maybe it was before your time
05:43.40purple_cowblender can't open the obj you're talking about
05:43.43learnerI vaguely remember such a beast, but it's fleeting
05:43.48purple_cowit can only do some crappy ogj
05:43.56purple_cowobj*
05:44.00Patlabor221there are scrips that import it I saw
05:44.32Patlabor221hmm I wonder where I put those images
05:45.24Patlabor221oooo not good.... movie popcorn is fighting back :(
05:45.54learnerwee.. found it
05:47.51Patlabor221http://www.bakadigital.com/BZ/colors.jpg
05:48.26Patlabor221http://www.bakadigital.com/BZ/NewBZTank.zip
05:48.50learnerAh, yes.. I've seen those
05:49.31learnerA high quality of those would be nice too, though the textures could definately use some work :)
05:49.42Patlabor221hmmm, it's kinda scary when a wget has been running for over a day now
05:49.50Patlabor221yeah the texture is crap
05:49.57learnerwoah
05:50.40Patlabor221I think it will take another 2 days to finish :(
06:09.17JBDiGrizl, did you check into why your server isn't showing up on the list for 1.9.7?
06:09.18learneraww foo
06:09.53learnerserver must have crashed?
06:09.54JBDiGrizprobably, or some other reason to knock us out.
06:10.22JBDiGrizTime for a tag
06:10.39learnerjb: no I haven't
06:10.54learnerbut I am running 1.9.7...
06:26.44learnerWell, I'm not sure what's up.. I clean rebuilt and still don't show up
06:27.02learnermaybe something to do with tim's udp/tcp port changes..
06:27.41JBDiGrizThat took a while. I need a faster machine and network connection. :)
06:34.08*** join/#bzflag Big_Barrel (~chatzilla@adsl-64-219-213-203.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net)
06:43.44JBDiGrizNew build for macintosh is being uploaded to dragon.
06:46.47CIA03dbrosius * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (playing.cxx): Roger consider 15 degrees better
06:49.13*** join/#bzflag bomber_ (~bomber@ap97.physik.uni-frankfurt.de)
06:49.17bomber_moin
06:49.31learnerhowdy bomber
07:01.00*** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-82-84-96-5.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)
07:01.15learnermoin tupone
07:01.32Tuponemorning learner/brlcad
07:02.24purple_cowdoobeedoo
07:05.33*** join/#bzflag mmu_man (~revol@ALyon-209-1-28-15.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr)
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08:39.39CIA03brlcad * 12bzflag/src/platform/MacOSX (MacDisplay.cxx):
08:39.39CIAClean up the OS X key handling.
08:39.40CIAFinally added support for the dang key modifiers for shift, alt, and control.
08:39.40CIACommand is mapped to alt; command/alt clicking is a right mouse event.
08:39.41CIASo.. now right click game entry can actually work on a one button mouse as expected and
08:39.42CIAI finally get to see how that dang observer-mode movement works...
08:40.36learnerAnd on that note, I shall ride off to bed
08:50.10*** join/#bzflag [dmp] (~dennis@port151.ds1-aboes.adsl.cybercity.dk)
08:56.34*** join/#bzflag MrCooper (~daenzer@dclient80-218-117-230.hispeed.ch)
09:02.11*** join/#bzflag larsl (~larsl@c213-100-62-55.swipnet.se)
09:02.11*** mode/#bzflag [+o larsl] by ChanServ
10:22.49*** join/#bzflag cniV (~kchan@c211-29-162-104.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au)
12:23.10*** join/#bzflag rooter ([JLHj5gFgs@webguy.cc.westga.edu)
12:23.19rootergood morning gentlemen
12:23.21rooterladies
12:31.01*** join/#bzflag bzgirl (~aec@toronto-hs-64-26-176-100.s-ip.magma.ca)
12:51.31rooterhello bzgirl
12:51.35rooterlong time no see
12:51.49bzgirlhi root
12:51.59rooteris it getting cold up ther?
12:52.02rooterthere?
12:52.15bzgirlits not too bad yet
12:52.22bzgirl~toronto
12:52.38rooterhmmm
12:52.41rooter~atlanta
12:52.43bzgirlbut the bad stuff is on the way :(
12:53.18rooteri see
12:53.50bzgirlwhat is the station code for atlanta? like the airport #?
12:53.55rooterah
12:53.57bzgirltoronto is cyyz
12:53.58rooter~atl
12:54.23rooterdoes ibot have to be primed?
12:56.01bzgirlibot: atlanta is <reply> see weather atl
12:56.04bzgirl: okay
12:56.09bzgirl~atl
12:57.04rooterit couldn't find atl when i tried a sec ago
12:58.08bzgirlatl isnt right i dont think
12:58.19rooterahh... it's KATL
12:58.25rooter~weather KATL
12:58.31rooter:)
12:58.40bzgirlibot: forget atl
12:58.40bzgirl: i didn't have anything called 'atl'
12:59.10bzgirlibot forget atlanta
12:59.11i forgot atlanta, bzgirl
12:59.20rooterthanks
12:59.34bzgirlibot: atl is <reply> see weather KATL
12:59.36bzgirl: okay
12:59.41bzgirl~atl
12:59.52rooterhow has your bz sabbatical gone?
13:00.02bzgirlhmm
13:00.22bzgirlwell not too bad, its been a month almost now
13:00.36bzgirli tried to play FFA but im no good at that :)
13:01.06rooterme either.  i've thought about doing the same... i'm not sure i'm strong enough to quit that long ;)
13:01.46bzgirlits not that hard really, you will find other more productive things to do..
13:01.51bzgirllike chat on irc :)
13:02.04rooterlol
13:02.31rooteryeah...  sometimes at home i will play armegatron instead
13:02.55bzgirli like playing tuxracer with my neice
13:03.08rootersounds fun
13:03.49rooteri'll play frozen bubble with my bosses son
13:03.56bzgirl:)
13:08.28Chestalhi
13:08.37bzgirlhello Chestal
13:09.22bzgirlhow many boss'es do you have?
13:09.33Chestalbut I bombarded him with so many details that he gave up, so we have anotehr talk on Thursday, grmpfl
13:09.36Chestalbasically 2 of them
13:10.06Chestalformally, I have boss A and C, but inreality I have A and B and do not even know C
13:10.38Chestalbzgirl: I'm on a 2-3 week sabbatical myself now :-)
13:10.46bzgirlnot good to have 3 boss'es, one is plenty enough
13:10.55bzgirlyou havent played in 3 weeks?!
13:11.07Chestalbzgirl: no, I'm just starting
13:11.11bzgirlahh
13:11.38bzgirlif you need counselling during the tough first weeks let me know :)
13:11.53rooterhello ches
13:12.09ChestalI plan to not play before November, that's not too long
13:12.19rooterstill an accomplishment
13:12.30bzgirlbeacuse of work?
13:12.52Chestalseveral factors, but nothing new
13:14.33Chestalspeaking of productive things, have you taken a look at the new invisibles? I haven't yet
13:14.52bzgirlahh no, will look now
13:15.41bzgirl"from the vault" means old movies?
13:16.23Chestalnot quite sure
13:16.50bzgirl6 is quiz show
13:17.42bzgirl12 is good morning vietnam
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13:19.22bzgirl10 is almost famous
13:20.26Chestalhmm, I've seen that movie, but then I didn't find it to be as good as most people
13:20.51Chestal2 is Flash Gordon and 11 is Tarzan
13:20.57bzgirli thought it was pretty good
13:21.30ChestalIMHO now above average
13:21.33Chestaleh, s/now/not/
13:21.37triclopsgot 3 yet?
13:21.59bzgirltriclops: nope
13:22.07bzgirlwhat is he holding?
13:22.15triclopshehe
13:22.21triclopsit's some meat
13:22.47triclopsfreshly cut too
13:23.12bzgirlhe is a butcher?
13:24.11triclopshe is in a butcher shop
13:24.20triclopshis father worked as a butcher
13:24.44bzgirloh!
13:24.46triclopsif I recall the owner needed some help...
13:25.00bzgirlits a mob movie?
13:25.20triclopsnot likely. its a comedy
13:25.28bzgirlyou know...
13:25.35bzgirlyou could just tell me :)
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13:25.55triclopsMike Myres
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13:37.29fiberchunksbzgirl -- you around?
13:37.41bzgirlfiberchunks: yes
13:38.00fiberchunkswhee :)
13:38.09fiberchunkshow's life treating you?
13:38.42bzgirloh not too bad actually, im enjoying thanksgiving day today :)
13:38.59fiberchunksthanksgiving? aren't you about a month off? ;)
13:39.22bzgirlumm no, thats you foolish americans that got it wrong
13:39.26fiberchunkslol
13:40.39fiberchunksglad to see you brought your blog back up
13:40.54bzgirlyeah, my fans complained :)
13:41.12fiberchunksI was one of 'em, but couldn't find you -- it's like trying to contact the pope ;)
13:41.24bzgirlheh
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13:41.45bzgirli think my email addys is public in the forums
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13:44.23[dmp]can anyone access ladder.bzflag.org ?
13:44.43fiberchunksyes
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13:47.01fiberchunkslots of network fun today :\
13:47.14fiberchunksanyway, back to work -- glad to see you're back bzgirl :)
13:47.21[dmp]This network is about as stable as my floppydisks
13:47.24[dmp]:(
13:47.39bzgirlfiberchunks: im a kinder, gentler bzgirl now too :)
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13:50.20triclopsDoS?
13:56.17[dmp]triclops. Nope. "Major problems"
13:56.44triclopsyeah, just got a global notice. it appears to be hardware
13:57.41triclopsmakes it all the more exciting
13:58.55[dmp]I've had enough excitement when with raid-reinstall (which i failed :( )
13:59.47triclopsloose data?
14:00.39[dmp]No, remove the active disk and used two new.
14:00.55[dmp]It just ssems that all my floppies are too old to work
14:01.14[dmp]it kinda makes it hard to install debian without working floppies (i have no cdrom)
14:03.00triclopsahh, i removed my floppy disk drive to preserve the life of my hard drives.
14:03.34triclopsI understand your pain though. It seems every 2nd disk I ever try to write an image to is screwed
14:04.15[dmp]Had to try 7 disks/reformats before i could a "driver-disk-3" working. wasnt exactly motivating
14:04.27[dmp]I need to buy new disk before i try again.
14:06.19triclopshehe, 7 disks is a long time. Do you need that many disks for a network install?
14:07.20[dmp]No, 5disks. But when the fail to work, one after the other, you end up doing alot of formatting, rewriting images etc.
14:07.36[dmp]I didnt even reach the point where i should play with raid :(
14:10.27triclopsyeah that is bad. could you have used the old disk instead of floppies?
14:13.39[dmp]How?
14:16.34triclopshmm, i'm not entirely familiar with debian
14:16.55triclopsi just took a quick look at the installation manual
14:17.11triclopsit appears the alternative to the driver disks is a single tarball
14:18.05[dmp]i wish i didnt give away my cdrom :)
14:18.36triclopsso i guess (having never tried this myself) you place the driver tarball onto the harddisk (making sure it is in a nice readable format), mount it and use it.
14:18.41triclopscdroms are very good
14:20.53[dmp]yeah
14:21.12[dmp]i guess a usb-memory-stick would be just as good.
14:21.21[dmp]if USB works.
14:21.24[dmp]Not sure
14:22.20triclopsthe driver for the usb would probably be on the usb stick :)
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14:23.26triclopsactually it loads usb so usb keyboards can be used so there may be hope
14:24.40[dmp]sounds much nicer than those floppies :)
14:24.53triclopsdid you get to the 'Install Kernel and Driver Modules' stage of install btw?
14:25.21[dmp]yes i did
14:25.32triclopssweet
14:25.45triclopscause you can select a local hdd
14:25.52triclopsto load the files from
14:26.14triclopsor even over network apparently
14:26.31[dmp]i used network for installing
14:26.57triclopsso where did it die?
14:27.00[dmp]but after partitionizing, after lilo did its work, i wanted to try to bootdisk and found it was broken
14:27.19[dmp]and as i've never played with raid, i like to have a working bootdisk
14:27.36[dmp]And at that time i just had enough, so the old disk is bacn in.
14:28.36[dmp]Is it ugly to make an alias on eth0 with my wan IP, to avoid that ip.request for myself goes to my gw and back?
14:30.49triclopswhich ip request?
14:32.07triclopss/ip//
14:33.17[dmp]If i want to surf my own hosted pages it the packets would go from desktop->server->router->server .. Server is a local ip, and router got my wan ip, but it just forwards it to server.. (hope this make sense)
14:34.21[dmp]I like to avoid the server->router->server thingy.
14:35.12triclopsyeah. i guess the problem is when you type in the URL it resolves to your wan IP.
14:35.17[dmp]what would be "best": 1) add an alias on the server, so it too got the wan-ip 2) some route'ing stuff? 3) iptables-firewall ?
14:35.20[dmp]exactly
14:35.44triclopsYou could add an entry into your hosts file for that domain name maybe
14:35.56triclopsbit of a hack
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14:36.30triclopsouch
14:38.02triclopsyou could use NAT on the desktop maybe. Send everything destined for wan IP to the local IP instead.
14:38.26triclopslocal server IP
14:40.58[dmp]hmm, I better read up on this stuff.
14:42.17triclopsif you use NAT look at iptables stuff.
14:43.07triclopsrouting (most likely) won't work because the destination field in the packet won't change, so it wont solve the problem
14:44.08triclopsi'm not sure what effect having the wan IP aliased on eth0 would do either.
14:44.36triclopsand on that note I goto bed.
14:44.39[dmp]Sounds like time for try-and-error-experiementing :)
14:44.48[dmp]THanks for the input triclops.
14:44.49triclopshehe
14:44.59triclopsno worries, cya
14:45.02[dmp]cu
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15:56.13Nidhoggrnow to find a good wiki software
15:56.19Nidhoggrthat isn't python
15:56.20Nidhoggr:)
15:58.43TyroneFHornighWhat's your problem with python?
16:01.32Nidhoggrthe machine that it's going on is already super overloaded.
16:01.39Nidhoggrand it's not currently using python.
16:01.49Nidhoggrnot wanting to add to the load much.
16:01.52TyroneFHornighGet a better machine ;)
16:01.55Nidhoggrso it has to be php
16:02.02Nidhoggrit's a good machine, just overworked.
16:02.07Nidhoggrand I have nowhere else to put it.
16:02.12Nidhoggrhrm.
16:02.19Nidhoggrmaybe I can put it on another machine, and redirect.
16:02.52TyroneFHornighThat's always the better answer. I like to separate out chores among several machines.
16:03.14Nidhoggrthis machine is where all the reports are generated, and our internal website is, etc.
16:03.20TyroneFHornighOf course, I'm usually working with 4-10 year old machines as well.
16:03.26Nidhoggrit needs to be broken up, but there are a lot of interdependencies.
16:03.31Nidhoggryeah.
16:04.04Nidhoggrwhat's up, pat?
16:04.16Patlabor221just trying to find out how todo a tricky thing
16:04.23Patlabor221I want multiple sets of increasing ranks
16:04.24Nidhoggrah.. what's that?
16:04.26Patlabor221per user group
16:04.27Nidhoggrhrm.
16:04.39Nidhoggrmight be a challenge.
16:04.52Patlabor221perhaps
16:05.08Patlabor221mostly I want to know what happens with multiple ranks on the same limit now
16:05.21Nidhoggryou could make groups, then hack the code to display various data based on group membership.
16:06.27Patlabor221yeah, that's what I'm thinking I would have to do
16:06.35Patlabor221mostly I just wonder if anyone has done this allready.
16:10.03Patlabor221hmmm, I got 6 out of 12 invisibles off the bat
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16:15.06TyroneFHornighAmazing, I got 3 out of 6 invisibles, immediately. It must be an easy week. :)
16:15.16TyroneFHornighWell 3 out of 12 actually. :)
16:15.28Patlabor221I have 6
16:15.37bzgirli have 6 too
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16:16.11Patlabor221I have 1 2 3 6  11 and 12
16:17.32TyroneFHornighOnly 1 6 and 11 for me. I really need to get out and see more movies.
16:17.48Patlabor221I wana say 8 is some wayans brothers
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16:25.48Patlabor221I would have had to shoot myself if I didn't' get #3
16:30.16TyroneFHornighDid you get the 1.9.7 build up on dragon.org, so Bags can get his rabbit fix ;)
16:30.31Patlabor221not yet, I'm getting ready to build it now
16:30.38Patlabor221just waitig for the work build to finish
16:30.52TyroneFHornighI was really trying to see if he was going to speak up. :)
16:31.16Patlabor221it's good to remind me of these things tho :)
16:32.28Patlabor221tag is "v1_9_7_BETA" right
16:32.31TyroneFHornighbzg, I like the dinner for the family blog entry. :)
16:32.35TyroneFHornighYep
16:33.05bzgirlTyroneFHornigh: i had turkey and cheesecake for breakfast today :)
16:33.24Patlabor221no such tag
16:34.07learnerpat: cvs log on any file will tell you the tag names
16:34.22TyroneFHornighFrom the README log: v1_9_7_Beta
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16:34.43TyroneFHornighI'm not sure if it's case sensitive.
16:34.54learnergood afternoon jolly ;)
16:34.59jollyheya :)
16:35.05Patlabor221eta was lower case
16:35.09TyroneFHornighGood Morning (UGT) jolly. :)
16:35.14jollyheh
16:35.26bzgirlhi j
16:40.45TyroneFHornighbzg, do you have a holiday today, or just taking it easy after the weekend?
16:41.00bzgirltoday is a holiday
16:42.26TyroneFHornighSome kids have today off for Columbus day, but others don't. Luckily our eldest doesn't get too annoyed that her younger siblings don't have to be in school today. :)
16:51.01CIA03jeffm2501 * 12bzflag/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Move Windows icon to /win32 and re-add as binary so it dosn't get horked
16:51.55Patlabor221too late man
16:52.02Patlabor221I come pre horked
16:52.43TyroneFHornighI didn't realize horking was a once only occurrence. It's fun to learn new things. :)
16:52.47Patlabor221you gonna do a 1.9.7 src tarball for me?
16:53.08TyroneFHornighI thought we should allow others to get in on the fun.
16:53.26Patlabor221there are others?
16:53.38TyroneFHornighAt least 5 of them.
16:53.54Patlabor221I think at least 2 of them are figments
16:53.59TyroneFHornighThose aren't all just voices in your head.
16:54.15Patlabor221win bin and src zip are up
16:54.35Patlabor221any reason to keep the old dmgs?
16:55.08VoiceInPatsHead1Drat, that was supposed to be 13
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16:55.16Patlabor221any reason to keep any of the old builds at all?
16:55.25*** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ
16:55.26Patlabor221if somone wanted to go back, they could get fromt he tag
16:55.52VoiceInPatHead131.9.6 might be useful since there was still a server running it, but if larsl has updated, there's no reason for anything else.
16:56.15Patlabor221but none for 1.9.5 ?
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16:56.20VoiceInPatHead13nope
16:56.26sn0w_m0nkeymornin
16:56.32Patlabor221and do we want to keep suport for somone who is slow to update?:)
16:56.40VoiceInPatHead13Good Morning (UGT)
16:56.44Patlabor2211.9.5 is gone :)
16:56.55Patlabor221hello sn0w_m0nkey
16:57.12Patlabor221if there are servers for 1.9.7 I say that's all we post
16:57.41VoiceInPatHead13If there is something they need to test, we should keep support, but they can also generate their own binaries in that case.
16:57.46Patlabor221but then I have been known to be radical, and "out there"
16:57.54VoiceInPatHead13It doesn't make that much of a difference.
16:58.04Patlabor221yeah, if they want to specificly go back to an older version that's up to them
16:58.14Nidhoggrsometimes finding audio streaming solutions can be a real pain. :(
16:58.36Patlabor221I will leave 1.9.6 tar and RPM will we get 1.9.7 versions
16:58.39VoiceInPatHead13mvf nid, how about sourceforge?
16:58.50Patlabor221note, that was a big hint to somone to make them :)
16:58.51Nidhoggrmost people use winamp to encode their streams for radio
16:59.04Patlabor221shoutcast does rock
16:59.10Nidhoggrand we won't run icecast2 yet, because it's too unstable.
16:59.21Nidhoggrbut darwin streaming server supports icecast.
16:59.28Nidhoggrwith mounting points
16:59.31Nidhoggrwhich is what we need.
16:59.49Nidhoggrbut the only encoder I can find that does multiple streams is 45 bucks a license.
16:59.49VoiceInPatHead13Be radical, go with darwin streaming server :)
17:00.01Nidhoggrthat's what we're doing :)
17:00.03NidhoggrDSS rules
17:00.41Nidhoggrthe free shoutcast encoder does multiple streams, but I can't find a free icecast compatible one that does more than one stream.
17:01.00Nidhoggrso I tell customer 45 bucks per encoder.
17:01.32Nidhoggror I have our developer hack dss to accept mountpoint/password in the password field. :)
17:01.59Nidhoggrhe's already too busy.
17:02.09VoiceInPatHead13Hire a contractor :)
17:02.40Nidhoggrthe simpler solution is to just let the customer eat the cost.
17:02.59Nidhoggrthey want to broadcast over port 80 for their stations.
17:03.01VoiceInPatHead13True, but you can't blame a contractor for trying to drum up work. :)
17:03.19Nidhoggrand shoutcast won't do that for multiple stations on a single machine without multiple IPs.
17:03.49Nidhoggrand they only wanna do mp3 streams
17:03.52Nidhoggrno real or quicktime.
17:03.57Nidhoggrfortunately dss supports it.
17:14.46learnerI think you should go with the contractor idea
17:14.49learner:)
17:15.56VoiceInPatHead13I think someone's planning on branching out :)
17:17.49Patlabor221where would the mac want to put config files?
17:18.28VoiceInPatHead13Global or local? It's probably the same answer as Unix in many cases, but we also have the option of Preference directories.
17:18.47Patlabor221ok, where "should" i put them
17:19.08Patlabor221for linux I am doing this
17:19.08Patlabor221<PROTECTED>
17:19.08Patlabor221<PROTECTED>
17:19.08Patlabor221<PROTECTED>
17:19.13VoiceInPatHead13Probably $HOME
17:19.20Patlabor221so same thing?
17:19.44VoiceInPatHead13Unless you want to go completely maccish and start creating configs in XML ;)
17:20.25Patlabor221no they are not XML, but it would be nice to 'tosh it best I can
17:20.45VoiceInPatHead13The voices in your head are never definite, otherwise we would tell you to go kill someone.
17:20.59Patlabor221ohh they do that
17:21.02Patlabor221like ALL the time
17:22.27VoiceInPatHead13Stick with Unix convention for now.
17:22.50Patlabor221okeys
17:23.39VoiceInPatHead13That's scary, Pat really does listen to the voices in his head. :)
17:24.05Patlabor221only when the serve "the will (tm)"
17:24.23VoiceInPatHead13Don't we always? :)
17:24.58Patlabor221look on kazza
17:24.59VoiceInPatHead133 doors down on the right.
17:26.17VoiceInPatHead13Tomorrow we go looking for "the wone (tm)"
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17:34.02VoiceInPatHead13Have you purchased your tickets to the lotr marathon? I've heard they're already sold out in San Diego.
17:34.54Patlabor221we were pondering it just last night
17:35.19VoiceInPatHead13There aren't many selections for Theaters.
17:40.08bryjenif people other than yourself can hear the voice in your head, does that mean you're not crazy?
17:40.29bryjenor would that actually be worse?
17:41.09Patlabor221sane people worry me
17:42.01bryjendo we have any of those 'round here? ;)
17:42.21Patlabor221I hope not
17:45.17Legolas~d
17:48.20VoiceInPatHead13Sold out in San Diego, and in Orange
17:49.00Patlabor221I can't find a place to get tickets online for around here
17:49.28VoiceInPatHead13Only Hollywood, and Bakersfield around there.
17:50.29VoiceInPatHead13http://www.lordoftherings.net/trilogy/theaters.html
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17:59.25VoiceInPatHead13More new ops around here. Might this have something to do with visits from a certain individual?
18:00.01captain_protonprobably
18:00.45VoiceInPatHead13I'm all in favor of it :)
18:00.45captain_protonits frustrating that we need to be one of the few freenode channels with ops, but the nature of the project demands some posturing to keep the kids in line :)
18:01.25VoiceInPatHead13See, it's not just the voices in Pat's head that are building the distributions. :)
18:01.45captain_protonhmm
18:02.03bzgirlChestal: i need #4,7,8 & 9
18:02.05captain_protonthat sounds like a psychologist's field day
18:02.13larsl~invisibles
18:02.15rumour has it, invisibles is at http://www.filmwise.com/invisibles/index.shtml
18:02.19Chestalbzgirl: what's #1?
18:02.26VoiceInPatHead13GMTA
18:02.28bzgirlflintstones
18:02.43Chestalah, guess I could've figured that out, not that I watched it
18:02.44VoiceInPatHead13I managed to get #2 after thinking about it.
18:03.11ChestalI am also missing #5
18:03.29bzgirlharry met sally
18:03.38bzgirl(jolly got it for me)
18:03.58Chestalah, only saw 5 minutes of that movie, but now I can recognize it :-)
18:04.16Patlabor221we have all but 4 7 and 9
18:04.29bzgirlwhat is 8?
18:05.51Chestalis that inside a theatre in 8?
18:06.33*** mode/#bzflag [-o larsl] by larsl
18:06.34Patlabor221yes it is
18:08.22*** mode/#bzflag [+o larsl] by ChanServ
18:09.29ChestalPatlabor;: comedy?
18:09.47Patlabor221yes
18:10.00Chestalok, I give up :-)
18:10.19Patlabor221robert townsend is in it
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18:14.41larslNidhoggr: What is the "description" column in the http file listing at http://bzflag.dragon.org/builds/1.9/ ? Can we add descriptions there over FTP?
18:19.47bryjenthat's a generic directory index page generated by the web server.  i wonder if its a magic filename that gets used for description.
18:20.42Patlabor221lunch time
18:22.56[dmp]larsl: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/mod/mod_autoindex.html#adddescription :)
18:24.29Chestalcould possibly be put into .htaccess?
18:24.58[dmp]yes
18:25.11[dmp]same with icons etc
18:25.57[dmp]or you can add text prefix/postfix'd the directory list
18:29.50larslIt would be nice to have "Linux package for GCC3 ABI" or "Win32 installer" in the description.
18:33.29bryjenperhaps adddescription with wild-cards   *.exe="Windows"  bzflagOSX*="Mac OSX" ...
18:35.58bryjenthere'd need to be a pattern defined and whoever made the build would have to remember to follow it tho...
18:38.15bryjenwoah
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18:39.32*** mode/#bzflag [+bbb *cell*!*@* *!*@68.111.116.228 *!*edelstei*@*] by carroll.freenode.net
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18:39.35bryjenwhee
18:41.28Nidhoggrlarsl, you have to add descriptions in the .htaccess file in that dir (you'd have to create one)
18:41.51Nidhoggrlook through apache docs for AddDescription
18:42.01Nidhoggrfeel free to put .htaccess in that dir.
18:42.51Nidhoggrand subsequent dirs, if you create them.
18:43.46NidhoggrYou can do something like AddDescription "Mac install" *.dmg
18:43.51Nidhoggretc
18:44.58larslI'll try that.
18:45.03Nidhoggrcool :)
18:45.10Nidhoggrit's standard apache stuff.
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18:46.17NidhoggrI normally turn dir listing off, so I haven't used that directive in years.
18:46.47ColaNuthey jb, dont you think Pat has enough voices in his head?
18:48.00bryjenhe's number 13
18:49.09ColaNutwho are the other 12?
18:49.29bryjenyou'd have to ask Patlabor221
18:49.51larslNidhoggr: Do you allow .htaccess files in that directory? I've tried uploading one, but it doesn't seem to change anything.
18:49.57NidhoggrHRM.
18:50.02larslI don't even get an error if I add a nonsense line.
18:50.02Nidhoggrhrm
18:50.26Nidhoggrhang on....
18:51.17CIA03cobraa1 * 12bzflag/ (AUTHORS): Updated email address
18:51.28captain_protonwow, cobraa1
18:51.44Chestaluiui
18:51.53CIA03cobraa1 * 12bzflag/ (ChangeLog): Updated email address
18:52.41larslNidhoggr: Now it seems to work. =)
18:53.31Nidhoggradded AllowOverride All line to directory
18:53.36Nidhoggrbrb
18:54.47CIA03chestal * 12bzflag/ (ChangeLog): add jitter/timestamps
18:56.08Nidhoggrexcellent... works good. :)
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18:56.42prodanhey
18:56.44prodan<PROTECTED>
18:56.54prodanim no longer banned
18:58.25bryjeni think anyone @ t-dialin.net was banned for a while.
18:58.30scanlineprodan: I wouldn't count on that being permanent
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18:59.10prodanhmmm
18:59.15Nidhoggrtheir abuse department is completely unresponsive
18:59.25prodando i have to look for a new isp?
18:59.28prodannwho is cell
18:59.38Mayhemhehe, bzdisease
18:59.47prodancell == perfect cell?
18:59.51bryjenyeah
18:59.51Nidhoggryeah
18:59.54Nidhoggrhe's annoying
18:59.56Mayhemsplinter cell?
19:00.02bryjenand persistent
19:00.11larslIs it correct to call the .dmg files "installers", or are they just plain archives or software manager packages (like RPM)?
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19:00.17captain_protonsplinter cell: puppy helmet
19:00.29prodanshall i hack his machine?
19:00.49learnerlarsl: technically neither
19:00.49prodan(lame joke)
19:01.04learnerthey are auto-mounting disk images that contain an installer :)
19:01.30larslOK.
19:01.33Nidhoggrlarsl, they are disk images
19:01.35larslWhy disk images?
19:01.36Nidhoggr:)
19:01.45Nidhoggrthey mount like regular hard drives in OSX
19:01.58prodanapt-get install OSX
19:02.04prodannhmm
19:02.04Nidhoggrthen you "eject" them when you are done with them.
19:02.16prodanapt-get remove --pruge OSX
19:02.52bryjena disk image could be considered a type of  archive.  files in a filesystem in a file.
19:03.31scanlinelarsl: OS X has all sorts of weird little metadata widgets that I don't think tar supports
19:03.47larslAh, right.
19:03.59bryjenstreams?
19:04.21scanlinedata and resource forks are still around
19:04.22learnerdmg is rather similar to an iso, and is one of the (problably most) common ways to distribute os x software
19:05.11CIA03chestal * 12bzflag/man (bzfs.6s): document changes to /lagstats and /ban
19:05.48bryjenwow. document. as a verb ;)
19:07.45learnerbesides encapsulating the multi-resource fork hfs+ filesystem, a dmg can auto-mount, open a content window, run arbitrary scripts, set a background image, among other coolities
19:07.51Chestalbryjen: that canbe read in at least two ways :-)
19:08.47larslThe filesystem sets the background image?
19:09.43learnerthe filesystem mount connection to the Finder application, can describe an image that should be set as a background image
19:10.18learnermore a feature of the filesystem contained inside describes that an image should be set
19:10.54learnerand I mean background of the auto-mounted filesystem, not the entire desktop
19:11.10Chestalplaying.cxx:533 following <= what's that about?
19:11.29prodanibotducati
19:11.35larslAh.
19:11.52Chestalthe input string gets tokenized, thenprinted to cout
19:12.46learnerChestal, any idea why a 1.9.7 server might not show up in the server list?
19:12.53ChestalI'll simply remove it
19:13.02Chestallearner: hmm, mine does
19:13.08learnerever since the change yesterday, my server has not showed up (yet it's running)
19:13.18Chestaldo you see ducati and xmission?
19:13.19learnerI've rebuilt from scratch and still have the same problem
19:13.25learneryes, just those two
19:13.34learnertry connecting to brlcad.org:14242
19:14.58Chestalseems to work
19:15.12learneryet list server isn't happy
19:21.07larslDid you shut it down now?
19:22.30CIA03chestal * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (playing.cxx): remove strange code artifact which tokenized input string and printed it to cout
19:24.12CIA03chestal * 12bzflag/ (BUGS): thief invisible; more info on stuck problem
19:28.21TyroneFHornighlearner, your server shows up in the server list for 1.9.6
19:29.16TyroneFHornighColaNut: You are Number 6.
19:29.40captain_protoni am not a man, i am a free number!
19:29.44CIA03chestal * 12bzflag/misc (bzfquery.pl): update bzfquery.pl to newest protocol
19:32.25learnerTyroneFHornigh: very interestink
19:32.41TyroneFHornighbut, stoopid.
19:36.16Nidhoggr:)
19:36.39TyroneFHornighbut pot in the palm might be worth about two grand :)
19:36.47Nidhoggrsnort
19:38.33learnerhiya mayhem
19:39.26Mayhemgreetings learner :)
19:40.22MayhemI am having deep and meaningful thoughts about how server-controlled gamestate would affect lag
19:41.23TyroneFHornighI've had several deep and meaningless thoughts about that. It would mean that people with higher lag wouldn't get as many advantages as now.
19:41.30learnercoo.. I'm trying to figure out reasons to touch every source file yet again to invoke massive mail spammage
19:41.40Mayhemlearner: heh
19:41.50TyroneFHornighYou just want to make it into the top 10 on sourceforge. :)
19:42.01learnerI was looking at that TyroneFHornigh...
19:42.13MayhemTyroneFHornigh: the only problem is that the person with low lag would get an unfair advantage...
19:42.16learnerI think the stats are purely based on sf file downloads and site views
19:42.30larslNo, it's CVS activity too.
19:42.33learneryou can get a breakdown of the site stats over time, rather interesting
19:42.54larslI think.
19:43.01learneryou can see the slashdot effect kick in
19:43.14TyroneFHornighAs now, the person with high lag gets an unfair advantage. I'm not sure that you can really call it unfair since it goes to someone. We can only choose who is the deserving party.
19:43.54MayhemTyroneFHornigh: why does having high lag give them an advantage? they have to compensate for it too.
19:44.21learnerhttp://sourceforge.net/project/stats/?group_id=3248
19:44.32learnerchange that to monthly :)
19:44.40TyroneFHornighIt seemed like we were making it in when there was a lot of cvs activity, but I haven't actually looked at the algorithms. I probably should before making any further funny comments.
19:45.06learneryes.. but that was also right after we released.. hence lots of downloads
19:45.30TyroneFHornighHigh lag makes them almost unhittable, but their bullets are in the state at each client where there's low lag, therefore the low lag people are easier to hit.
19:45.38MayhemIn general though, lag has a *much greater* effect than it needs to have currently
19:45.41larslMayhem: But they know that they are lagging.
19:46.09TyroneFHornighlarsl: Most people don't know they are lagging. A number of people don't understand the concept.
19:46.49MayhemTyroneFHornigh: their lag doesn't make them less hittable, its just what you are aiming at has moved lots by the time the shots reach it.
19:47.06TyroneFHornighMayhem: I don't disagree with you at all. I think there are some things we can do to compensate for lag. Have you looked at Chestal's mods to 1.9 which lists the lag statistics along with jitter?
19:47.24MayhemTyroneFHornigh: no, that sounds interesting
19:47.41TyroneFHornighMayhem: To me that's unhittable, since you can't aim in any direction and assume they'll be there when your shot arrives.
19:48.03MayhemTyroneFHornigh: but they experience the same, as you have moved by the same amount from their point of view
19:48.05Chestalit's very basic so far, mainly useful to actually see whether some peopel with average latency have high jitter
19:48.34TyroneFHornighNot really, because their shot enters your state (low lag).
19:48.48Chestalthe lag situation is more or less symmetrical at the moment (at least when we assume a constant latency and no packet loss)
19:49.37MayhemTyroneFHornigh: lag in this case is end-to-end, it doesn't 'change' as the message is passed
19:49.40Chestalhowever, there are some mysteries with respect  to lag, i.e. average latency as showed by lagstats != "felt" lag
19:49.47TyroneFHornighWe had this discussion when Chestal put in the mods, and my standpoint then was there wasn't a lot of possibilities for changes, but we should make the mods and disprove that viewpoint.
19:50.11ChestalI just hope that the timestampsI added might give more insight on this issue
19:50.17MayhemChestal: lagstats shows client-server roundtrip time?
19:50.23ChestalMayhem: yes
19:50.26bzgirlchecking whether build environment is sane... configure: error: newly created fi            le is older than distributed files!
19:50.26bzgirlCheck your system clock
19:50.33bzgirlwhat does that error mean?
19:50.35ChestalMayhem: for some special MsgLagPing packets
19:50.42ChestalMayhem: server -> client -> server
19:50.46TyroneFHornighMayhem: lag doesn't change, but the state where the collision detection is different.
19:50.48Mayhemso latency for aiming and hitting a target requires you add your latency to your targets latency
19:51.13Chestalwith a constant latency and only two players
19:51.31ChestalA: 20ms  B:160ms   and A: 90ms  B:90 ms  should be the same
19:51.36learnerbzgirl: is your date/time set right?
19:51.38Mayhemyes
19:51.43bzgirllearner no
19:51.46Chestalthat makes some assumptions of course
19:51.59Mayhembut its actually 2(A+B)!
19:52.00learnerthat would be what it's complaining about :)
19:52.09TyroneFHornighbzgirl: find . -exec touch {} \;
19:52.16learnerheh
19:52.28bzgirllearner: but why? who cares what time it is
19:52.28ChestalMayhem: depends on what time you want. The roundtrip a -> b -> a is the sum, yes
19:52.39TyroneFHornighMake sure you're in the bzflag directory when you execute that.
19:52.40learnerthe builder cares
19:52.48ChestalMayhem: because it it a -> s -> b -> s -> a
19:52.55TyroneFHornighmake builds files depending on the relative age of the files.
19:53.01bzgirloh
19:53.06learnerit only rebuilds when something is newer/older than the file -- with a messed up clock you confuse it
19:53.16bzgirlmaybe i should learn to make ntp work
19:53.23Chestalusually happens when your local clock derives from the file server's clock
19:53.32TyroneFHornighbzgirl: Definitely, it's worth it. :)
19:53.38MayhemA = a -> s -> a, B = b -> s -> b
19:53.52Mayhemamount A has to lead B to get a direct hit is 2(A+B)
19:54.10Mayhemhang on, let me rethink that :)
19:54.32ChestalMayhem A = s -> a -> s, but ourassumption is that this is the same, i.e. latency is constant
19:54.45Chestalno, you just have to lead A+B
19:54.55Chestalactually, no :-)
19:55.03Chestal(A+B)/2 Ithink
19:55.04Mayhemyes, thats right, I was thinking of on-way latency
19:55.20Chestalah, hmm
19:55.24Chestalno, A+B
19:55.30MayhemA's perception of B is already (A+B)/2 behind...
19:55.37Chestalyes, exactly
19:55.38Mayhemyes, A+B
19:55.51Mayhemwhich is pretty ugly
19:55.52Chestalwhen there are more than 2 players, things become complicated
19:55.56Mayhemyes
19:56.02Chestaleveryone has his unique world view
19:56.05TyroneFHornighI don't think so, because the shotbegin enters the state of B's client, and doesn't need to be tracked from A after that.
19:56.13Chestalwould be even more complicated with the multicasting
19:56.16CIA03atupone * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (5 files): bots obtaining start position same as real player (shared code)
19:56.17Mayhemhowever, if the server was deciding hits, then A would only lead everyone by A
19:56.38MayhemB would always lead by B...
19:56.54Chestalyes, without any lag compensation features that is
19:57.18Chestalbut then A might blow up even if a shot missed his tank fromhis point of view
19:57.30TyroneFHornighThat happens already.
19:57.32Mayhemyes, but how much of a price is that to pay?
19:57.32Chestalno
19:57.36Chestalthat does not happen now
19:57.59ChestalMayhem: well, I fear that it could radically change gameplay
19:58.17MayhemChestal: it could, as we like to know precisely that we have dodged
19:58.20TyroneFHornighLast night on ducati, I shot through an enemy player, and then killed a teammate. They were both killed after a second.
19:58.25Chestalthe good thin gis, it would make me invincible on ducati with my 20ms lag :-)
19:58.45ChestalTyroneFHo: yes, but that's not what I was talking about
19:58.50MayhemYou can get a feel for it by observing a player with high lag
19:58.54ChestalTyroneFH: the players which exploded saw the shot hitting their tanks
19:59.22MayhemYou feel shots hit a bit after they pass you
19:59.29Chestalright now, everyone can evade shots, regardless of lag
19:59.32TyroneFHornighI've also seen shots which appeared to be wide from my point of view, and the other player's point of view, but he blew up.
19:59.38Chestalwhen the server has control of state, that's no longer the case
19:59.54ChestalTyroneFho: eh, how can you know his point of view?
19:59.59TyroneFHornighI asked.
20:00.07ChestalTyroneF: then he was confused
20:00.14Chestalthe client does the collision checks
20:00.26Chestalthere is no way a shot can kill you unless it really hits you in your local view
20:00.26TyroneFHornighI messaged that the shot looked wrong, and he agreed. Perhaps he was confused.
20:00.43Chestalif it still hapenns, it is a bug not related to lag
20:00.46MayhemTyroneFHornigh: most likely the collision detection
20:01.12TyroneFHornighCould be, I have no way of verifying anything since it's all visual perception.
20:01.17Chestalanother idea would be to try and compensate lag somehow
20:01.24Chestalbut that seems to be difficult to me
20:01.35Chestaljitter compensation is the only thign I can really imagine
20:01.42Chestaland even that is not so easy I fear
20:01.59*** join/#bzflag mmu_man (~revol@ALyon-209-1-23-150.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr)
20:02.52Chestalwould be inteesting to see the 1.9 jitter values for some players which show average latency and still feel very laggy somehow
20:03.04ChestalI am not convinced that the current jitter display is good as is, though
20:03.21Mayhemwhere do I find this patch to display these values?
20:03.34TuponeI think displayed jitter is too low now
20:03.35Chestalit's in current 1.9 CVS code
20:03.35TyroneFHornighI was checking that last night. I had a hard time hitting MrAC on xmission, and determined that his lag and jitter were high relative to mine.
20:03.51ChestalTupone: it's averaged, so when there are a lot of 0 values, it will be low
20:03.52TyroneFHornighI was able to compensate once I looked at that.
20:04.04ChestalTupone: and it is averaged over the number of measurements, not over time
20:04.32TuponeSo we should have min/max too ???
20:04.41Chestalmaybe
20:04.47Chestalbut probsbly not a global max
20:04.49Tupones/min\///
20:05.06Chestalmax for last 10s? who knows
20:05.16Chestalmaybe a histogram :-)
20:05.23Tuponeyeah, a pie
20:05.34TyroneFHornighmmmmmm, pie :)
20:05.52Tuponeyet hungry
20:06.01Chestalwell, cu later
20:06.06bzgirlbye ches
20:06.09MayhemChestal: a nice graph like in Quake-engine games
20:15.23TimRikerHomehttp://www.sharpsystems.com/products/pc_notebooks/actius/rd/3d/ <- ooh. perfect BZFlag system. ;-)
20:19.26*** part/#bzflag prodan (~prodan@p508BB22D.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:20.54learnerNiet niet niet.. dual G5 with 23" flat panel :)
20:21.14TyroneFHornighOnly one?
20:21.32learnerwell.. only one till that bug is fixed =)
20:22.31*** join/#bzflag Carnage (strayer@dyn216-8-133-198.ADSL.mnsi.net)
20:22.36learneroh, I might have fixed that...
20:23.34TyroneFHornighAlways have to appreciate the accidental bug fix :)
20:25.54CIA03atupone * 12bzflag/ (3 files in 3 dirs): player tcp connection set to blocking (was nonb by my error).
20:26.29CIA03brlcad * 12bzflag/ (BUGS): tee hee.. gotta love bugs that get fixed without trying.  gamma on secondary display is correct now.
20:28.07learnerOkay.. my server is showing up under 1.9.7 list now.. and I changed nothing
20:29.10learnerdid someone change something?
20:31.08Patlabor221~seen MrApathyCream
20:31.11mrapathycream <MAC@balt-209-163-100-116.qis-dynamic-dialup.coretel.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 14h 58m 18s ago, saying: 'arg, it's irritating the bots have to choose your color'.
20:31.27Patlabor221hmmm he won't be back on till later thn
20:42.16Patlabor221learner: I'm re-runing that render for you
20:52.58purple_cowdoodeedoo
20:58.13Mayhemshoowap
20:59.50CIA03atupone * 12bzflag/ (TODO): old item: configure detect missing GL/GLU headers and disable client
21:04.42Patlabor221learner
21:04.44Patlabor221http://jeffm.bakadigital.com/BZ/image001.jpg
21:04.50Patlabor221that's the big ass one you wanted
21:05.13Patlabor221and   http://jeffm.bakadigital.com/BZ/image001.tga is it with an alpha channel for the BG
21:05.31*** join/#bzflag TyroneFHornigh (~JBDiGriz@216.188.65.26)
21:05.38purple_cowdamn macgyver is sexy
21:05.47*** join/#bzflag learner (sean@chr160dhcp1509.chrchv01.md.comcast.net)
21:05.47*** mode/#bzflag [+o learner] by ChanServ
21:05.59Patlabor221ahhh there you is
21:06.17Patlabor221http://jeffm.bakadigital.com/BZ/image001.jpg
21:06.22Patlabor221that is your large render
21:06.38Patlabor221tga of the same name in the same place that has an alpha channel
21:07.04purple_cowwhy not do png+alpha?
21:07.09purple_cowtga = blahhh
21:07.16learnerthere me is just had bzclient crash on me and bring the system down again
21:07.18Patlabor221it's what lightwave made
21:08.43Patlabor221anyone know if the code for our moded ibot is avail anywhere?
21:09.00TyroneFHornighWhich version of bzflag client?
21:09.02purple_cow...our modded ibot?
21:09.19Patlabor221ibot is a moded blootbot right?
21:09.21Patlabor221: no idea
21:09.46purple_cowi think all of ibot's hacks have been contributed back to blootbot
21:09.54Patlabor221oh
21:10.00Patlabor221then that should make it easy :)
21:10.42TimRikerHomePatlabor221: ibot is current cvs blootbot
21:10.51Patlabor221ok cool, thanks
21:10.54Patlabor221wasn't sure
21:12.43Patlabor221is it pretry straight forward to set up?
21:13.16TuponeI saw the ClanWar Manager ibot page. It's kinda usable for us?
21:13.27TimRikerHomefairly. if you use sqlite it autocreates all the tables. same on mysql provided youy get the user account added ok.
21:13.37TimRikerHomeTupone: url?
21:13.43learnerSaw some rather interesting ctf bugs..
21:13.51Tuponehttps://sourceforge.net/projects/war-manager/
21:14.13Patlabor221the tagline on the blootbot project is not that reasureing
21:14.24learnerlag/jumpyness shot through the roof once there were 4-6 payers
21:14.27Tuponelearner: bug?
21:14.53learnerand occasionally on flag capture, a player would respawn where they exploded instead of at base
21:15.04TimRikerHomeTupone: hmm. eggdrop scripts. does sound useful for ibot though. msg players on irc to remind of games etc.
21:15.08learnerTupone: yes.. I'd call that a bug
21:15.28learnermost of the players should not have had any lag problems.
21:15.38Tuponelearner: I was just asking, preparing the message, and you gave answer. :)
21:16.06TimRikerHomecould just tie into botmail. botmail should be fixed up to a) deliver when player talks as opposed to just on join now and b) only alert once for multiple channel joins.
21:16.15bzgirllearner it was most likely my connection, i shouldnt lag 210ms on my own server
21:17.15bryjenthose streaming mp3's will get ya' ;)
21:18.12Tuponelearner: thats with the brand new bzflag?
21:18.13learnerbzg: perhaps.. but that code has changed a bit and I've seen the jitter jumpyness on the other servers when they get busy too
21:18.27learnerthat's with the latest on my end
21:18.35bzgirlbryjen: i didnt have any music on :)
21:19.50Tupone'cause I change code location for respawning (to let use it for bot)
21:19.58bryjenand learner hasn't implemented your "server streams music to clients" feature yet ;)
21:20.08CoffeeBeannoir......good anime, really long
21:20.16learnerhey.. I didn't lose the bet :)
21:23.06learnerPatlabor221: looks great :)
21:23.09learnerthanks!
21:23.33TimRikerHomeTupone: why should player tcp be blocking?
21:23.47TuponeIt was that way.
21:24.18TuponeBefore I changed something on connection to the server.
21:24.54TuponeWe should check every usage of connection to see if non block will work with tcp.
21:25.31TuponeWhat happened is that sometime we loose control of the tank.
21:25.46Tuponetcp, as is implemented now is non preemptive.
21:25.50TuponeWe should rewrite
21:27.40*** join/#bzflag TyroneFHornigh (~JBDiGriz@216.188.65.26)
21:27.41Tuponeif you see ServerLink.cxx:743 you'll understand
21:28.03Tupones/743/473
21:36.52TimRikerHomeTupone: ugh... it should just queue what it got and return if it can't get a full packet.
21:37.14TimRikerHomenext call would grab what's in the buffer and try to get more, also returning if there is not a complete packet. etc.
21:37.22TimRikerHomeonly handle it when we have complete info.
21:37.47*** join/#bzflag Spiff (~Spiff@12-223-213-142.client.insightbb.com)
21:37.48*** mode/#bzflag [+o Spiff] by ChanServ
21:38.03TuponeThat code is there from ages. We should put in the TODO or BUGS. It explains drop of FPS on poor connection
21:43.24Chestalserver side is handling partial packets just fine I think
21:44.06TuponeChestal: I think having fixed the stuck problem. Have occasion to try?
21:44.18TimRikerHomeTupone: /me nods
21:44.20ChestalTupone: what was it?
21:44.40TuponeI set non blocking the tcp (my mistake)
21:44.56Chestalhmm
21:45.06ChestalI don't see how that woudl relate to the stuck bug in BUGS?
21:45.10Tuponethere was no check on ServerLink
21:45.32Chestalor are we talking about two different bugs?
21:45.48Tuponewhenever a tcp frames arrive, if it drop somethink, it stay on the loop waiting for data
21:45.58Tuponeon ServerLink.cxx loop
21:46.07Chestalthat would lead to a deadlocked client, no?
21:46.24Chestalor at least until the rest of the data arrives
21:46.28Tuponeor waiting for a next frame to arrive
21:46.58Chestalthat could explain stop'n'go refresh when I played on Windows over 56k back then maybe
21:47.15Chestalthought you were referrign to the 'tank is stuck# bug in BUGS
21:47.16TuponeNo, my fixes was only for unix
21:47.28*** join/#bzflag TyroneFHornigh (~JBDiGriz@216.188.65.26)
21:47.32Tuponethe BUG you got 1 hour ago?
21:47.37Chestalyes
21:48.18TyroneFHornighThe network around here is bouncing like a yoyo. It's probably that same worm again, but they won't let me track down what is really happening. :(
21:49.05Tuponeon ServerLink.cxx a read can return -1. This value is not checked, so its used to increment size of data (actually decrementing)
21:50.11Tuponeso what's happen is that you get stuck for a while, waiting ... I don't know what
21:50.45Chestalah, it would return -1 in case of EAGAIN?
21:50.56Chestaland then some random crazyness happens
21:51.04Tuponeyeah
21:51.11Chestalit shoudl check that return value anyway
21:51.51CIA03timriker * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (ServerLink.cxx): debug, ws
21:52.16Tuponenow I re-put blocking. Had to insert a function on network.cxx. I got an intuition for Windows implementation. Don't know if it is correct
21:52.49TimRikerHomelooks like that loop is expecting non-blocking.
21:53.03TimRikerHomejust that the loop might go forever.
21:53.38ChestalI don't thnk so
21:53.43Tuponebut before it was blocking, and it does not check the length of the packet
21:53.46Chestaleven a blocking read can return with less bytes than you want to have
21:54.04ChestalAFAIR in case of signals etc.
21:54.25Chestalbut maybe I should look at the code first :-)
21:54.58TimRikerHomerlen = recv(fd, (char*)headerBuffer, 4, 0);
21:55.10TimRikerHomeTupone: where does it not check the length?
21:55.29Chestalit doesn't check for error, yes
21:55.35Chestalit assumes length is >= 0
21:55.43Tuponeif it is non blocking and only 1 byte has arrived it return -1
21:55.48Chestalis the check new?
21:56.03Chestalthe rlen >= 0?
21:57.05TimRikerHomenfound from the previous would be 0 if there were no bytes to read.
21:57.24Tuponethe select only ask for file readable, not how many byte
21:57.25Chestalin case of non-blocking it would be -1
21:57.41Chestalbut when no date is there, it shouldn't try to read
21:57.41TimRikerHomea tcp pipe is not readable if it has 0 bytes
21:58.15TimRikerHomeso if it's readable there are 1 or more bytes.
21:58.17Chestalwhat happens, when ServerLink::read() returns an error?
21:58.25Chestaldoesn#t tha tmean all is messed up?
21:58.54TimRikerHomeServerLink::read() would only get called when select shows there are bytes.
21:59.25TuponeIC
22:00.10Chestalhmm, that's strange
22:00.28Chestalplaying,.cxx checks the return value of read() for -2, meaning sevrer error
22:00.29Chestalbut it returns -1 in all error cases?
22:01.16Chestalplaying.cxx 3676
22:03.29Tuponecould be the send that does not work? it should be blocking!
22:03.50TuponeServerLink.cxx:360
22:03.58[dmp]Chestal; is there any reason that ducati dosnt seem to show up on the serverlist ?
22:04.15TimRikerHomeTupone: why should _anything_ be blocking?
22:04.31Tuponesend(fd, (const char*)msgbuf, len + 4, 0)
22:04.33TimRikerHomeTupone: you want to hang the interface?
22:04.54TimRikerHomeTupone: again, why should it be blocking?
22:04.56Tuponeme not. We should do what you say before. I Just say that for what the code us
22:05.21Chestaldmp: the local name server is messed up
22:05.23TimRikerHomeI suspect that dns lookups and server list requests are effectively blocking now.
22:05.44TimRikerHomeI would think the normal tcp code is not.
22:06.13TuponeYou agree that we should rewrite?
22:06.19ChestalTupone: TCP socket used t obe blocking? then was non-blocking for soem time )by accident) and now is blocking again?
22:06.43Tuponeyeah, 3/4 day before
22:07.05Chestalany opionions on that -2 check?
22:07.32TuponeI did a fix for connection to the server, alarm did not work on mine, and I used select.
22:08.17Tuponereally the nonblocking stuff I put for the connection
22:08.53TimRikerHomegame does not hit that loop for me.
22:09.25*** join/#bzflag TyroneFHornigh (~JBDiGriz@216.188.65.26)
22:11.22Tuponethere are some other tcp message (AddPlayer, RemovePlayer, MsgFlagUpdate ...) I think they arrive there
22:11.57TuponeNot pretty sure
22:11.58Chestaluh, you are confusing me
22:12.11Chestalare we talkign about doMessages() in playing.cxx?
22:12.36TuponeI'm saying that there are some tcp message that arrives during the game.
22:12.46TimRikerHomewith 30 players over http proxy and setBlocking() removed I do enter that loop in read. always exits after one iteration.
22:12.47Chestalof course, lots of
22:13.06Chestalyes, one would normally expect this
22:13.15Chestalserver sends chunks < MTU
22:13.21Chestalso one woudl expect client to receive chunks of that size
22:13.34Chestalbut I don't think it's guaranteed
22:14.16TimRikerHometcp stack will split > MTU packets, as will gateways along the way. so MTU might effectively shrink.
22:14.37Tuponewhen you -requireudp are there still tcp packet?
22:14.39Chestalyes, but bzfalg messages are small
22:14.53ChestalI don't thnk there is a mesage > 100 btyes atfer joining, or is there?
22:14.53TimRikerHomedon't know if the tcp stack will connect multiple tcp packets if it still has some in the queue do to retries.
22:15.07Chestalok, MsgMessage can be larger
22:15.17TimRikerHomeTupone: yes. only certian msg types go over udp.
22:15.49ChestalI think it would normally not combine them and set the push flag for each segment
22:15.51TimRikerHomeso in short, we should always be using non-blocking.
22:16.17Chestalnon-blocking is good, but then we must check what code we have to rewrite
22:16.57Chestalnon-blocking would not really stop the read loop from stallign the client, though
22:17.11Chestalin case it only gets partial data, it will still wait there untl the data arrives
22:17.30TuponeWith that blocking, I do not get stuck anymore. Hit with gdb I was on a read, actually, during stuck!
22:19.03Chestalwith non-blocking socket, when ServerLink::read() enters that loop because it recieved only partial data, it wil mess up
22:19.35Chestalon second thought it shouldn't happen ebcause of the select
22:19.48Chestalbut it would still not hurt to add a check
22:20.03TimRikerHomeTupone: I'm failing to userstand what you are saying...
22:20.25TimRikerHomeTupone: what OS where you running when you got stuck?
22:20.44Chestalchangign the socket to non-blockign won't buy as anything unless we restructure the code
22:20.50TuponeLinux
22:21.22TimRikerHomeChestal: if it's blocking then writes should hang the interface, yes?
22:21.23TuponeBefore, with non blocking, I was often stuck on xmission for say 1 minute
22:21.48TuponeOnce, with gdb I see the process was inside a read
22:21.57ChestalTimRiker: well, yes. I fit's non-blockign we would need some logic there instead to retry at a later time
22:22.09TimRikerHomeTupone: I don't get stuck on xmission with or without blocking and I'm playing through a slow connection.
22:22.18ChestalI got stuck earlier today
22:22.27Chestalit always happened right after a respawn
22:22.47Chestaland once stuck, it wouldn#t go away
22:23.05ChestalTupone: but your 'Stuck' seems to be somethign different?
22:23.14TuponeWith blocking It didn't happen again.
22:23.15ChestalI mean, when it's blocke din read, the whoel client would be dead
22:23.23Chestalthat was not the case, I just could not drive around
22:23.33TimRikerHomewe already do a BzfNetwork::setNonBlocking(query) on non-win
22:23.43TuponeTank does not move
22:24.02TuponeI inserted that 4/5 days ago
22:24.04TimRikerHomeI think that is not related.
22:24.24Tuponefor the connect
22:24.34Chestalwhy is there a blocktike = 0 at the end of the udp if?
22:24.49Chestalthat doesn't make sense at all
22:25.31TuponeI changed only the constructor
22:27.40Tuponethe end of UDP is TCP! Isn't that
22:27.40Chestalok, there is a possible problem
22:27.49TimRikerHomewhat is the point of the connectthread? to handle interface events curring connect()?
22:27.55Chestalwhe the 4 byte header has been recvd
22:28.04Chestalafter that there is a recv call to get length bytes
22:28.21TimRikerHomeTupone: huh? I don't understand: the end of UDP is TCP! Isn't that
22:28.21Chestalthat is not preceded by a select, so it might return -1 EAGAIN in case of non-blocking socket
22:28.24Noodlemanahh! Spiff is mad with power!
22:28.48TuponeFallback to normal TCP receive  I see the comment
22:29.05Chestalmaybe the server is sendign a mesage with two send calls?
22:29.13Chestalone for header, one for rest?
22:29.39Chestalwhatever, I woudl recommend to stick with blocking, unless someone wants to rewrite send and read
22:30.12TimRikerHomeTupone: I don't understand
22:30.20SpiffHi, Noodleman. :-)
22:30.33ChestalTupone: ah, hmm, ok, whatever, normally shouldn#t happen anyway
22:30.33SpiffSpiff is tired with travel actually.
22:30.52SpiffI just drove roughly five hours.. home from south-central Illinois.
22:30.53Chestalso, wrappign things up: ServerLink code is designed for blocking sockets
22:30.53Noodlemani walked 5 miles today :-)
22:30.58Tuponewas an answer on why blocktime shoud be set to 0. No problem
22:31.02Chestalnon-blockign would be better, but requires some changes to the code
22:31.11Chestalthere#s still that == -2 issue
22:31.16ChestalIMHO that shoudl be < 0
22:31.38SpiffFive miles.. five hours... hmmm.  I guess mine was just more *mentally* tiring. :)
22:31.46Noodlemanhehe
22:32.09Tuponewasn't Pat working to substitute the net layer?
22:32.31Patlabor221my net layer is not compatable with Bzs current methods
22:32.39Patlabor221it's udp only
22:32.46Chestalhm, I have to go to bed, it's late
22:32.48Chestalcu
22:32.56TyroneFHornighg'nite ches
22:32.59SpiffLaterz Chestal.
22:33.10TuponeGuten nicht
22:33.33Patlabor221see ya Chestal
22:34.24learnerGood night @ChanServ
22:34.30learnerer, Chestal ;)
22:34.37Patlabor221heh
22:34.47TyroneFHornighThat tab completion doesn't read minds yet.
22:35.12larslA thought completion feature... that would be nice.
22:35.33[dmp]larsl; seems like the modified server made my bzflag crash, suddenly
22:35.42[dmp]Now i cant start bzflag at all :-|
22:37.11larsl0:34, time to sleep.
22:38.41learnerah, that's a good lad.. break it and run off to sleep =)
22:38.58*** join/#bzflag Big_Barrel (~chatzilla@rrcs-sw-24-173-20-70.biz.rr.com)
22:39.15Big_Barrel~seen quol
22:39.17quol <~quolsimo@65.39.216.149> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 19h 33m 29s ago, saying: 'see you all later'.
22:39.49Big_Barrel~ducati6
22:39.57*** join/#bzflag Carnage (strayer@dyn216-8-132-214.ADSL.mnsi.net)
22:40.03Big_Barrelhey carnage
22:40.08Carnagehey man :)
22:40.19Big_Barrelhehe quol and i lost to VBZ today :(
22:40.22Noodlemanon the news, they where just talking about these logs made out of used coffee grounds
22:40.27Carnagei asked bamf for a match but he didnt want to :(
22:40.31Noodlemanthey burn brighter and make 88% less carbon monoxide
22:40.36Big_Barrelthat was quol's 1st match in quite a long while
22:40.40Noodlemanplus, they smell like coffee
22:40.43Noodlemanmmmmmmmm...
22:40.49Carnagelol noodle
22:41.00Noodlemani'd buy those
22:41.08Carnageis mrxooper here?
22:41.16Carnagecooper*
22:41.33NoodlemanMrCooper: calling MrCooper
22:41.39NoodlemanCarnage is waiting
22:41.41Noodleman:-)
22:42.43*** join/#bzflag Big_Barrel (~chatzilla@rrcs-sw-24-173-20-70.biz.rr.com)
22:42.56Big_Barrelsrry
22:43.01Big_Barrelcarnage u there?
22:43.22Carnageim on quols server so if i dont respond dont take it personal
22:44.42*** join/#bzflag Big_Barrel (~chatzilla@rrcs-sw-24-173-20-70.biz.rr.com)
22:44.51Big_Barrelcarnage?
22:46.05Big_Barrel~ducati6
22:46.17Big_Barrel~quol
22:46.56Big_Barrel~dict spiff
22:46.59Carnageyes
22:47.14Big_Barrelhehe i will be home in a few hrs
22:47.21Carnagesigh
22:47.29Big_Barrelfind us a match!!! lets kick some ass tonight and make up for the loss
22:47.33Carnagemaybe we could get a match with bips
22:47.38Big_Barrelyes find out
22:47.47Big_Barreli should be home in about 2hrs tops
22:48.11Big_Barrel~dict quol
22:48.51Carnage~dict carnage
22:48.59Big_Barrellol
22:49.05Big_Barrelcu in a few carnage
22:51.57*** join/#bzflag bzfrank (~chatzilla@p50918C6C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
22:52.00bzfrankhi
22:52.11learnerhowdy
22:53.04bzgirlhi frank
22:53.45bzfrankhi learner, hi bzgirl!
22:53.59bzfrankhow is life on irc? :)
22:54.34bzgirloh its as fun as the advertisments promised
22:54.35TyroneFHornighWelcome to the hi channel, we're high on hi's :)
22:55.49bzfrankhi then...
22:56.10*** part/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-82-84-96-5.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)
23:00.51Patlabor221hi!
23:01.26TyroneFHornighhe left without even contributing a hi. That's highly rude. :)
23:01.52bzfrankhi pat
23:02.08Patlabor221how goes it
23:02.34Patlabor221ohh cool, the rank feature I wanted is gonna be suported in phpbb 2.2 :)
23:03.59*** join/#bzflag [dmp] (~dennis@port151.ds1-aboes.adsl.cybercity.dk)
23:06.01[dmp]A channelop might wanna look at this post: http://www.bzflag.org/league/index.php?link=bzforums&forumid=5&threadid=460&
23:06.05[dmp]night
23:06.07TyroneFHornighdon't forget to say "hi" this time
23:06.44Patlabor221we need his hostname for  the whitelist
23:06.54TyroneFHornighIt's already done, he was on earlier.
23:07.10Patlabor221ahh good
23:07.40TyroneFHornighOh, and hi :)
23:08.32Patlabor221hi!
23:08.38learnerhi
23:09.01TyroneFHornighIt's hi-ghly contagious.
23:11.39Patlabor221the 'tosh uses standard *nix paths now right? no more of that odd stuff with a : ?
23:12.22learnerright
23:12.41Patlabor221coo
23:13.20Patlabor221know what res the mac defaults to?
23:13.40learnerscreen res??
23:13.48Patlabor221yeah
23:13.58Patlabor221is 800x600 as a min ok?
23:13.58learnerit depends on the display/machine
23:14.04Patlabor221or at least as a default?
23:14.09learneryea, that's a good min
23:15.49TyroneFHornighThere are some calls you can make to determine if it's supported, but even this old ibook does 800x600.
23:16.27Patlabor221I'm just looking for a config default
23:16.33Patlabor221tho that's good to know
23:16.52Patlabor221probably should make the LGE init make sure the specified res is avail, and get as close as it can.
23:17.18*** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-82-84-96-5.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)
23:19.48TyroneFHornighHi Tupone :)
23:19.56Tuponehi
23:20.41Patlabor221hi!
23:21.48TyroneFHornighTomorrow we become the anti-insomnia channel.
23:22.35NidhoggrI'm already anxious for 1.11 :/
23:22.37SpiffIf you come in here, you're sure to fall asleep. ;-)
23:22.51Nidhoggrsince it will address some of the more annoying mac stuff.
23:22.52TyroneFHornighIt's bound to be a very quiet day. :D
23:23.01Nidhoggrwhy's that?
23:23.08Patlabor221that's no way for an op to speak spiff
23:23.10Nidhoggr<---already falling asleep.
23:23.13*** mode/#bzflag [-o Spiff] by Patlabor221
23:23.19Patlabor221:P
23:23.22Nidhoggrheh
23:23.32Patlabor221it is thanksgiving :)
23:23.34TyroneFHornighWednesday is op wars, stop that :)
23:23.57*** mode/#bzflag [+o TyroneFHornigh] by Patlabor221
23:24.04Patlabor221you sure you want me to stop? :)
23:24.16*** mode/#bzflag [-o TyroneFHornigh] by Patlabor221
23:24.21TyroneFHornighDefinitely, I'm afraid to touch the keyboard. ;)
23:24.36*** part/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-82-84-96-5.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)
23:24.42Patlabor221HI
23:24.43Patlabor221oh
23:24.45Patlabor221wopps
23:24.49Nidhoggrheh
23:27.17CoffeeBeanhey
23:27.25Patlabor221hi!
23:27.44TyroneFHornighhi :)
23:28.44CoffeeBeanguten tag
23:28.46learnerhi
23:29.12TyroneFHornighSo have you downloaded the latest 1.9, Bags?
23:29.49Patlabor221Ni hao!
23:30.04learnerni hao ma
23:30.11Patlabor221sup!
23:30.16CoffeeBeanma ma da ma
23:30.24TyroneFHornighxie xie
23:30.32Patlabor221word to your mutha!
23:31.10CoffeeBeanyo yo yo boyzzzzzz
23:31.53Patlabor221BeerHops did you see a 1.9.7 was posted?
23:32.05BeerHopsyep, just got it....danke
23:32.27learnerNidhoggr: gamma fixed.. lemme know if it makes a difference
23:32.28Patlabor221it has new "set your comp on fire" technology
23:32.30Patlabor221use it well
23:33.49BeerHops"set you comp on fire"....hmmmm.....
23:33.53TyroneFHornighThose flames leaping from the monitor are very realistic, but how did you add the smell? :)
23:34.16Patlabor221with the new DirectFry API
23:34.32TyroneFHornighI thought that was only available in winderz :P
23:34.42Patlabor221I ported it
23:34.46Patlabor221its part of SDL now
23:34.49BeerHopsheh
23:34.51Patlabor221OpenFry
23:35.10BeerHopstime to go play with it.....
23:35.13TyroneFHornighSeveral people refuse to go to Fry's ;)
23:35.27Patlabor221why?
23:35.44TyroneFHornighService/Mule headedness
23:35.46Patlabor221just cus it's a complete pain in the ass to actualy PURCHASE something fromt here?
23:36.05TyroneFHornighIt's no problem to purchase something, but try returning something that doesn't work.
23:36.11Patlabor221that's even worse
23:36.23Patlabor221for the love of odin, don't write a check there.
23:36.32TyroneFHornighUnless you're trying to purchase something during their Thanksgiving sale. 4 hour lines ....
23:36.58Patlabor221not like best buy or comp USA has any better service tho
23:37.09TyroneFHornighI saw people walk in the store, one person got in line while the others went to do their shopping.
23:37.24Patlabor221yeah seen that too
23:37.46TyroneFHornighBest Buy and Comp USA won't honor their price guarantees. I've never had that problem at Fry's.
23:38.17Patlabor221you just have to know exatly what you want  when you go to try's
23:38.39Patlabor221and then give them a rash of poopie if you want an exchange
23:38.40TyroneFHornighMatrix Reloaded, $14.99 tomorrow. That's what I want. :)
23:38.58Patlabor221<PROTECTED>
23:39.14TyroneFHornighI actually found that going in when they first open is the best way to exchange something. The clerks haven't burned out yet.
23:39.41Patlabor221I just take a baseball bat, and say "WHAT!" when the look at me funny
23:39.44*** join/#bzflag victorvdl (~victor@ip214.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com)
23:39.46Patlabor221never have proboems
23:39.55Patlabor221hi!
23:39.57TyroneFHornighhi
23:40.10learnerhi?
23:40.51TyroneFHornighI think some people are afraid of getting hi. ;)
23:41.00BeerHopshi
23:41.06BeerHops?
23:46.42bzfranklater
23:46.50Patlabor221bye!
23:46.51learnercya frank
23:47.03Patlabor221hi!
23:47.05*** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@158.222.227.6)
23:47.09Patlabor221hi!
23:47.15Patlabor221damn precog
23:51.51TyroneFHornighhi
23:52.03Patlabor221maybe you have postcog
23:55.07*** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@158.222.227.6)
23:55.12TyroneFHornighhi
23:55.17Patlabor221hi1
23:55.19DTRemenakhello
23:57.57Quolping 255.255.255.255
23:57.59Patlabor221Hi!
23:58.16Quolhowsy Pat
23:58.17DTRemenakhello
23:58.18TyroneFHornighhi

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