irclog2html for #bzflag on 20030923

`00:00.02`	`CIA`	`03timriker * 12bzflag/ (5 files in 5 dirs): simple version of linking everytime`
`00:02.32`	`TimRiker`	`down to 3 seconds for a build. ah well.`
`00:09.43`	`patlabor221`	`we ended up only getting 5 this time`
`00:23.23`	`Tupone`	`Tim: LD_ADD is in the dependency so you'll get build everytime`
`00:26.22`	`patlabor221`	`tim go bye bye`
`00:26.47`	`Tupone`	`I know. Just to say`
`00:28.22`	`Tupone`	`I'm rebuilding, But I suppose that any time I rebuild executable, because buildDate.o, If I'm Right, goes into the dependencies`
`00:30.38`	`Tupone`	`I'm right :-)`
`00:34.49`	`*** part/#bzflag patlabor221 (~JeffM@208.48.199.216)`
`00:36.11`	`*** join/#bzflag JBDiGriz (~JBDiGriz@adsl-63-204-118-194.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net)`
`00:46.29`	`*** join/#bzflag Dahmphire (~jeffm@adsl-67-115-246-38.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net)`
`00:47.12`	`*** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@host-224-116.dialup.innercite.com)`
`00:52.50`	`CIA`	`03dbw192 * 12bzflag/src/platform/MacOSX/BZFlag.pbproj (project.pbxproj): Maybe buildDate.cxx will stay in one place for a while.`
`01:09.34`	`JBDiGriz`	`Great picture of the baby on the panda cam right now.`
`01:11.26`	`*** join/#bzflag MrApathyCream (~MAC@balt-209-163-100-85.qis-dynamic-dialup.coretel.net)`
`01:15.46`	`CIA`	`03dbrosius * 12bzflag/src/common (WordFilter.cxx): fix vc dup var errors`
`01:33.31`	`CIA`	`03dbrosius * 12bzflag/win32 (2 files): follow this date folly in vc`
`01:36.21`	`CIA`	`03dbrosius * 12bzflag/src/date (buildDate.cxx): from silly to ridiculous`
`01:40.40`	`*** join/#bzflag creeperz (~creeperz@host-11-76-220-24.midco.net)`
`01:42.55`	`Dahmphire`	`what is the date sillyness?`
`01:44.08`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ`
`01:56.08`	`MrApathyCream`	`who knows, riker is going nuts`
`01:56.22`	`MrApathyCream`	`buildDate is in its own directory`
`01:56.29`	`MrApathyCream`	`(new)`
`01:58.55`	`Patlabor221`	`wow`
`01:59.07`	`Patlabor221`	`all for a version`
`02:06.25`	`*** join/#bzflag SGI (~SGI@bgp01138bgs.sothfd01.mi.comcast.net)`
`02:06.33`	`SGI`	`hi`
`02:06.57`	`*** part/#bzflag creeperz (~creeperz@host-11-76-220-24.midco.net)`
`02:08.03`	`*** join/#bzflag drinian (~drinian@pcp153139pcs.hamntn01.nj.comcast.net)`
`02:09.14`	`SGI`	`are you happy learner`
`02:09.59`	`learner`	`happy as a one legged-man in a butt kicking contest`
`02:10.30`	`SGI`	`~dict leggedf`
`02:10.41`	`SGI`	`~dict legged`
`02:11.05`	`SGI`	`intresting`
`02:12.44`	`learner`	`imagine a man with one leg trying to kick a butt`
`02:13.31`	`SGI`	`its like a man with a hand trying to drive a motorcycle`
`02:14.07`	`SGI`	`with a jump you can kick a butt`
`02:14.27`	`SGI`	`with one hand ...you cant drive a motorcycle`
`02:14.38`	`Patlabor221`	`sure you can`
`02:14.44`	`Patlabor221`	`just a pain to stop :)`
`02:14.52`	`learner`	`Heck, I drive a car with no hands all the time :)`
`02:16.16`	`SGI`	`the gear how ...you drive the motor...just with the 1st gear`
`02:17.09`	`Patlabor221`	`1) put the clutch on the same side as the throtle`
`02:17.19`	`SGI`	`lol`
`02:17.22`	`Patlabor221`	`2 use the throtle to speed sync the gears when you shift`
`02:17.29`	`Patlabor221`	`I've done that in my truct`
`02:17.45`	`SGI`	`~dct truct`
`02:17.49`	`Patlabor221`	`truck`
`02:18.49`	`learner`	`weee.. I got 3 invisibles`
`02:18.55`	`JBDiGriz`	`Some interesting clients on quol just now. tanks leaping all over the field at sudden times.`
`02:19.04`	`Patlabor221`	`we craped out at 5 of them`
`02:19.06`	`SGI`	`I cant type the keyboard with one hand`
`02:19.25`	`JBDiGriz`	`Which invisibles did you get Pat?`
`02:19.26`	`Patlabor221`	`sounds like a personal problem to me.`
`02:19.28`	`SGI`	`have you the admion`
`02:19.44`	`SGI`	`have you the admin on quol`
`02:19.58`	`Patlabor221`	`1,3,5,6,8`
`02:20.00`	`JBDiGriz`	`yes, but you can't do anything about unusual behavior unless there's something there`
`02:20.22`	`JBDiGriz`	`~invisibles`
`02:20.22`		`invisibles is, like, at http://www.filmwise.com/invisibles/index.shtml`
`02:21.29`	`Patlabor221`	`I got 3 and 8 off the bat`
`02:21.58`	`*** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@host-225-226.dialup.innercite.com)`
`02:22.00`	`JBDiGriz`	`I only got 8 off the bat. It's not surprising we both got that one after some of the conversation today. ;)`
`02:22.06`	`SGI`	`have you tried a roaming and tracking a tank from the sky`
`02:23.05`	`JBDiGriz`	`I was just playing on quol for a bit. I wasn't trying to track down the cheats today. I've done it in the past, but there's no way to be certain.`
`02:23.32`	`JBDiGriz`	`I can go back there with you, and we can verify some of the clients together.`
`02:23.48`	`SGI`	`there is quol now`
`02:24.04`	`JBDiGriz`	`He arrived just as I had to go help with some homework`
`02:24.23`	`SGI`	`ok`
`02:24.42`	`JBDiGriz`	`I'll go back as an observer for a bit and see what's going on`
`02:30.39`	`*** join/#bzflag TimRiker (~timr@proxyle01.ext.ti.com)`
`02:30.46`	`learner`	`I have 5, 6, ans 8`
`02:30.58`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ`
`02:31.20`	`Patlabor221`	`#3 was funny`
`02:32.08`	`learner`	`I have 1 now.. halfway`
`02:32.11`	`Patlabor221`	`and it has a relation to #3`
`02:32.28`	`Patlabor221`	`sorry 5 and 3 have a relation`
`02:32.37`	`learner`	`oh?`
`02:32.41`	`learner`	`is 3 on video yet?`
`02:32.43`	`Patlabor221`	`yes`
`02:32.46`	`Patlabor221`	`ohh yeah`
`02:32.49`	`learner`	`hrm`
`02:32.50`	`Patlabor221`	`I own it`
`02:32.53`	`learner`	`ha`
`02:33.14`	`Patlabor221`	`came out in 1999`
`02:34.12`	`learner`	`loos a lot like either jet lee clothing, or maybe mel gibson`
`02:34.21`	`learner`	`I'm assuming those are guns`
`02:34.33`	`Patlabor221`	`ohh no no`
`02:34.44`	`Patlabor221`	`if they were you would see them :)`
`02:34.51`	`learner`	`ah, true true`
`02:35.09`	`Patlabor221`	`there is a VERY strong relation to #5`
`02:35.19`	`Patlabor221`	`something is the same`
`02:35.39`	`Patlabor221`	`you may not have seen it tho`
`02:35.48`	`learner`	`i think not`
`02:35.58`	`learner`	`guy relation, or girl?`
`02:36.07`	`Patlabor221`	`guy`
`02:36.50`	`Patlabor221`	`"disco is not dead!!!! disco is LIFE!!!!"`
`02:39.06`	`SGI`	`there is a limit of word for helpmsg`
`02:39.11`	`SGI`	`words`
`02:40.18`	`*** join/#bzflag Jamesbob (Jamesbob@ACC76110.ipt.aol.com)`
`02:40.53`	`*** part/#bzflag Jamesbob (Jamesbob@ACC76110.ipt.aol.com)`
`02:41.06`	`learner`	`Oh yea, I've definatley not seen it`
`02:41.26`	`Patlabor221`	`you get it?`
`02:41.33`	`learner`	`Yea, never seen it`
`02:41.40`	`learner`	`never heard of it`
`02:41.42`	`Patlabor221`	`it was funny`
`02:42.10`	`Patlabor221`	`did you get all of #1?`
`02:42.13`	`learner`	`since you mentioned #5 .. #1 has something to do with #5 for the opposite sex reason`
`02:42.39`	`Patlabor221`	`1 is not related to 5 at all I think`
`02:43.00`	`Patlabor221`	`what part of #1 do you have?`
`02:43.12`	`learner`	`what do you mean what part?`
`02:43.24`	`learner`	`the "name of the movie" part?`
`02:43.34`	`Patlabor221`	`you said you had #1 "sorta"`
`02:43.41`	`learner`	`i did?`
`02:43.43`	`Spiff`	`Have any of you played "Return to Castle Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory"??`
`02:43.44`	`learner`	`no, I hav e1`
`02:44.05`	`learner`	`OOOhh..`
`02:44.09`	`Patlabor221`	`spiff I played RTCW, and a but of the expansion`
`02:44.12`	`learner`	`I'm halfway done 4/8`
`02:44.17`	`Patlabor221`	`ahh`
`02:44.17`	`Spiff`	`257.8MB download. Whoa.`
`02:44.25`	`Patlabor221`	`you won't like it spiff`
`02:44.31`	`Patlabor221`	`it's a full blown FPS`
`02:44.32`	`*** join/#bzflag KR (~k@cae168-234-054.sc.rr.com)`
`02:44.41`	`KR`	`hi all`
`02:44.45`	`Spiff`	`I was just surfin' GameHippo... and noticed the huge size. LoL I was like "whoa!"`
`02:44.45`	`learner`	`We should point people to that next time they complain about a 7 mb download`
`02:44.47`	`Spiff`	`Hey KR.`
`02:44.54`	`Patlabor221`	`yeah`
`02:44.55`	`learner`	`or even a 20 mb download`
`02:44.57`	`Spiff`	`LoL learner. :-)`
`02:45.05`	`Patlabor221`	`spiff, blood gore and the entire 27 feet`
`02:45.10`	`Spiff`	`I'd hate to think how long that'd take on 57k.`
`02:45.14`	`Spiff`	`I sorta figured that.`
`02:45.23`	`Spiff`	`All of the Wolfenstein games were that way. :-\|`
`02:45.33`	`KR`	`a * 7 M * download? Jeez, who has bandwidth to handle that??? :)`
`02:45.34`	`Patlabor221`	`no I mean worse then like UT and stuff`
`02:45.40`	`learner`	`can't remember who that girl is in #2..`
`02:45.41`	`SGI`	`with 57k........`
`02:46.00`	`Patlabor221`	`who's the guy?`
`02:46.04`	`SGI`	`neverending download`
`02:47.11`	`DTRemenak`	`I would complain about a 7mb download...see, RTCW comes on CD, enemy territory you only have to download once, not once every three months...`
`02:47.29`	`DTRemenak`	`or two weeks, or nightly, depending how closely you follow it`
`02:47.39`	`Patlabor221`	`you don't play any MMORPGs do you?`
`02:47.41`	`JBDiGriz`	`Some people can't live their life without complaining ;)`
`02:47.50`	`learner`	`258 1024 1024 * * 57 8 / 1024 * / 60 / 60 / p`
`02:47.51`	`Patlabor221`	`yeah, and they all come here :)`
`02:47.51`	`learner`	`10.30`
`02:47.52`	`DTRemenak`	`no, I don't.`
`02:47.57`	`learner`	`it'll take 10.3 hours spiff`
`02:48.07`	`SGI`	`there is achet client there toio`
`02:48.11`	`SGI`	`cheat`
`02:48.12`	`Patlabor221`	`asuming you can hold a pipe for that long`
`02:48.17`	`JBDiGriz`	`Not all of them, it just seems like we get more than our fair share.`
`02:48.54`	`learner`	`and that you can achieve 57kbs, which isn't likely for most modems/isps`
`02:49.05`	`DTRemenak`	`impossible, on copper lines`
`02:49.08`	`DTRemenak`	`56k is max`
`02:49.13`	`DTRemenak`	`53k in US, by FCC regs`
`02:49.17`	`Patlabor221`	`you'll average 3-4k a sec`
`02:49.24`	`learner`	`er, I mean 56..`
`02:49.24`	`Patlabor221`	`real K`
`02:49.28`	`Patlabor221`	`not that fake bit crap`
`02:49.28`	`DTRemenak`	`And joy, I'm connected at 26.4k right now...`
`02:50.00`	`DTRemenak`	`it's all whether it's B or b.`
`02:50.20`	`learner`	`258 1024 1024 * * 26.4 8 / 1024 * / 60 / 60 / p`
`02:50.20`	`learner`	`22.23`
`02:50.21`	`DTRemenak`	`can't wait for hard drive manufacturers to start putting capacities in bits :)`
`02:50.22`	`Patlabor221`	`well bits make the numbers look biger :)`
`02:50.24`	`Spiff`	`Hey DTR... you want to download this 257.8MB game and test it for me? ;-)`
`02:50.26`	`Spiff`	`LoL`
`02:50.35`	`DTRemenak`	`spiff: I've got it on CD :)`
`02:50.44`	`DTRemenak`	`RTCW, right?`
`02:50.56`	`Patlabor221`	`yeah, he's not geting warz`
`02:51.04`	`Patlabor221`	`or is that just the demo?`
`02:51.07`	`DTRemenak`	`skip the second mission, the rest is really a blast`
`02:51.12`	`Spiff`	`Nooooooo. Lookie at the site.`
`02:51.15`	`Spiff`	`One sec.`
`02:51.59`	`Spiff`	`Well...`
`02:52.01`	`Spiff`	`Enemy Territory is easily the best freeware first person shooter I have ever played. The game, which was originally supposed to be an expansion pack for Return to Castle Wolfenstein was released as a stand alone freeware game. While there is no single player mode, the multiplayer kicks major butt.`
`02:52.16`	`DTRemenak`	`so you're downloading RTCW, or ET?`
`02:52.16`	`Spiff`	`They made it into a freeware game (legally).`
`02:52.21`	`Spiff`	`Nope.`
`02:52.23`	`DTRemenak`	`Ah, ET`
`02:52.26`	`Spiff`	`I was just lookin' at it.`
`02:52.40`	`Spiff`	`:-)`
`02:52.53`	`Patlabor221`	`so it comes with the core engine/`
`02:52.56`	`DTRemenak`	`I didn't like ET much, but maybe it's because the lans I go to are too small, and internet play is...nonexistent`
`02:53.00`	`Patlabor221`	`that dosn't make sense`
`02:53.14`	`Patlabor221`	`unless id decided to let them give away the Q3 engine`
`02:53.29`	`DTRemenak`	`patlabor: it's just the engine, and four HUGE maps`
`02:53.39`	`DTRemenak`	`and id is kinda in charge of RTCW, you know...`
`02:53.48`	`DTRemenak`	`no "them" about it`
`02:53.53`	`Spiff`	`I wish they'd make a game that looked that cool but didn't have so much blood spattering. :-)`
`02:53.54`	`Patlabor221`	`so they are giving away a free engine`
`02:53.56`	`DTRemenak`	`unless you mean gray matter`
`02:54.08`	`Patlabor221`	`then go play the nerf FPS spiff`
`02:54.16`	`DTRemenak`	`yes, but it's crippled like the demos are...no mods`
`02:54.24`	`DTRemenak`	`just four REALLY HUGE maps`
`02:54.26`	`Patlabor221`	`ahhh`
`02:54.30`	`Patlabor221`	`makes sense then`
`02:54.36`	`Patlabor221`	`so demo engine only those maps`
`02:54.48`	`DTRemenak`	`pretty much`
`02:54.51`	`Patlabor221`	`and probably just the coneent for those maps, no extra models and the like`
`02:55.11`	`DTRemenak`	`although, you know, the demo engines are just the full engines, with a hardcoded PAK limitation`
`02:55.33`	`DTRemenak`	`and MD5 sums so they know if you tweaked with your PK3s.`
`02:55.35`	`Patlabor221`	`yeah, and maybe a checksum or something on the data`
`02:55.37`	`Patlabor221`	`yeah`
`02:55.47`	`Spiff`	`Nerf FPS? LoL`
`02:55.47`	`Spiff`	`Huh?`
`02:55.54`	`Patlabor221`	`nerf made a shooter`
`02:56.00`	`Patlabor221`	`or there are some paintball ones`
`02:56.01`	`Spiff`	`You've gotta be kidding me!`
`02:56.02`	`DTRemenak`	`no explosions? nah...`
`02:56.04`	`Spiff`	`LoL`
`02:56.12`	`Patlabor221`	`well he dosn't want blood`
`02:56.15`	`Spiff`	`I used to play with Nerf guns constantly. :-)`
`02:56.18`	`learner`	`anyone get invisibles 2,4, or 7?`
`02:56.20`	`DTRemenak`	`so turn it off :)`
`02:56.27`	`Patlabor221`	`seems kinda odd to shoot people with bullets and not have blood`
`02:56.35`	`Spiff`	`That it does.`
`02:56.51`	`Spiff`	`Sorta like "paintball mode" in Goldeneye 64 was. It just didn't feel right. :-)`
`02:57.09`	`DTRemenak`	`Soldier of fortune is one of the goriest games around, the models have over 250 ways of falling over dead, and realistic blood spurts and stuff...but you can toggle everything, and make it entirely goreless`
`02:57.19`	`Patlabor221`	`shoot offf there thumbs!!!!!`
`02:57.30`	`DTRemenak`	`and othe parts`
`02:57.36`	`*** join/#bzflag SGI (~SGI@bgp01138bgs.sothfd01.mi.comcast.net)`
`02:57.44`	`DTRemenak`	`I find the gore distracting, personally`
`02:57.45`	`*** part/#bzflag drinian (~drinian@pcp153139pcs.hamntn01.nj.comcast.net)`
`02:57.52`	`Patlabor221`	`if it's too much sure`
`02:57.58`	`DTRemenak`	`there's this one tank game that I really like...`
`02:58.05`	`Patlabor221`	`ragdoll in UT2k3 is funny tho`
`02:58.05`	`SGI`	`bz`
`02:58.18`	`DTRemenak`	`gee, sgi, how did you know?`
`02:58.36`	`Patlabor221`	`bz is a fps`
`02:59.15`	`SGI`	`is the only game I know`
`02:59.19`	`learner`	`whaa?? I thought it was a rts?`
`02:59.25`	`learner`	`:)`
`02:59.29`	`Patlabor221`	`yeah we have to take out your orcs`
`02:59.44`	`SGI`	`~dict orcs`
`02:59.48`	`learner`	`one drives my tank`
`02:59.57`	`Patlabor221`	`~dict orc`
`03:00.03`	`Patlabor221`	`ibot sucks`
`03:00.04`		`If you got $5 I'll do more than that!`
`03:00.05`	`Patlabor221`	`just google it`
`03:00.07`	`SGI`	`~patlabor221 .....orcs`
`03:00.09`	`learner`	`hehe`
`03:00.53`	`SGI`	`learner you checked the swear list`
`03:01.10`	`learner`	`I started looking at it, haven't finished yet`
`03:01.10`	`Patlabor221`	`pfffff dictionarys need more mythical creatures`
`03:01.13`	`SGI`	`have you`
`03:01.29`	`Patlabor221`	`gotta go get food`
`03:01.29`	`DTRemenak`	`patlabor: correction, the language needs less mythical creatures`
`03:01.30`	`SGI`	`~dict hobbit`
`03:01.40`	`Patlabor221`	`no no, we need more :)`
`03:01.42`	`DTRemenak`	`lol`
`03:01.48`	`learner`	`orc �[ ??k ]`
`03:01.48`	`learner`	`noun`
`03:01.48`	`learner`	`1�`
`03:01.48`	`learner`	`any of various whales, such as the killer and grampus`
`03:01.48`	`learner`	`2�`
`03:01.52`	`learner`	`a mythical monster`
`03:02.11`	`SGI`	`pages 1452`
`03:02.14`	`learner`	`bah, copy past b-ork'd on me`
`03:02.19`	`SGI`	`or 1542`
`03:02.31`	`DTRemenak`	`or is that b-orc'd?`
`03:03.10`	`Spiff`	`Ahh.. those are action games that are pry not too violent.. the LOTR ones.`
`03:03.27`	`SGI`	`hi Spiff`
`03:03.29`	`DTRemenak`	`probably no playability either`
`03:03.36`	`Spiff`	`Hi SGI. :-)`
`03:03.40`	`DTRemenak`	`get something that's written as a game, not as a book`
`03:04.04`	`SGI`	`question about helpmsg about`
`03:04.07`	`Spiff`	`Actually.. I've read some reviews.. they say it's one of the only games made after a movie/book that is playable.`
`03:04.21`	`Spiff`	`I'm gonna test it one of these days.`
`03:04.28`	`Spiff`	`Then I'll give ya the Spiffy rating. ;-)`
`03:04.38`	`DTRemenak`	`that's really weird...the movies were good too, really surprised me, I expected them to suck, since the books were so good`
`03:04.42`	`SGI`	`there is a limit ......words numbers`
`03:04.58`	`DTRemenak`	`everything can be represented as numbers`
`03:05.19`	`SGI`	`~dict ogre`
`03:05.21`	`Spiff`	`Well, DTR, maybe the games will also surprise you. I hope they do! :-)`
`03:05.31`	`DTRemenak`	`me too :)`
`03:08.55`	`Spiff`	`In the meantime... I need to dig up some hardware that can handle those games. LoL`
`03:09.07`	`DTRemenak`	`lol`
`03:09.14`	`DTRemenak`	`what're ya running now?`
`03:10.40`	`Spiff`	`Well... I have two PC's at the moment. One is sorta my mom's tho. They both have these nasty 810 chipsets in 'em. Blech.`
`03:11.06`	`Spiff`	`Sadly.. the one I'm on now has gag 64MB's of RAM. :-\| Soooooo.. I'm gonna get a job and make it into a real PC one of these days. :-)`
`03:12.00`	`SGI`	`you have email`
`03:14.12`	`DTRemenak`	`ooh...a job :)`
`03:14.37`	`SGI`	`!define PROD_VER`
`03:14.46`	`DTRemenak`	`one of the best ways of making money`
`03:14.54`	`SGI`	`!define PROD_NAME`
`03:16.19`	`Spiff`	`Yeah... I know. ;-) I considered begging downtown....`
`03:16.20`	`Spiff`	`LoL`
`03:16.21`	`Spiff`	`J/k`
`03:16.29`	`Patlabor221`	`ahh sustinance`
`03:17.43`	`KR`	`just got the new Xandros beta running - very kewl`
`03:17.49`	`Spiff`	`Sadly... there aren't a lot of places in this town that I really care to work. We've got a Wal Mart... LoL.`
`03:17.57`	`DTRemenak`	`lol`
`03:18.00`	`KR`	`spiffers, this is the one that will bring you over from the dark side...`
`03:18.05`	`Spiff`	`Oh.. excuse me.. a "Super" Wal Mart. Pffff. Not very "super" if you ask me.`
`03:18.16`	`Spiff`	`Hmm KR?`
`03:18.51`	`KR`	`I gotta Linux distro for you, just installed the beta tonite`
`03:19.03`	`DTRemenak`	`if you're any good at IT stuff you can prb find a job in that field...ask some small legal firms, tell them you'll fix all the gaping security holes in their networks :)`
`03:19.27`	`DTRemenak`	`KR: 2.6 kernel?`
`03:19.27`	`Spiff`	`LoL DTR. :-)`
`03:19.34`	`SGI`	`correct`
`03:19.39`	`Spiff`	`Oh, KR? Maybe someday. ;-)`
`03:19.58`	`Spiff`	`Brb`
`03:20.19`	`Patlabor221`	`perhaps he will be ready for that when it dosn't take him 4 trys to install XP`
`03:21.17`	`DTRemenak`	`XP can be a bitch to install`
`03:21.22`	`KR`	`heh - I was listening to Clark Howard radio show this weekend`
`03:21.22`	`KR`	`na guy calls in, he had just gotten an email`
`03:21.22`	`KR`	`from someone who had his name, addy, social, checking account # w/bank routing #, and a credit card`
`03:21.22`	`KR`	`for a "fee", this "company" wuld tell this guy whose servers they sucked the info off of`
`03:21.22`	`KR`	`hows that for a "business plan"? :)`
`03:21.39`	`Patlabor221`	`not when all your trying to do is a wipe`
`03:21.40`	`DTRemenak`	`lol`
`03:21.48`	`SGI`	`msg dtremenak and if you can change it`
`03:21.49`	`KR`	`nope - 2.4.22`
`03:21.58`	`DTRemenak`	`ah, too bad`
`03:22.09`	`KR`	`they try to make it very stable, for business users`
`03:22.32`	`KR`	`and win newbies`
`03:22.44`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah, but 2.6 is so COOL`
`03:22.57`	`Patlabor221`	`will it boot right from a CD and install and format a drive with just clicky stuff?`
`03:23.09`	`KR`	`Pat - less than 20 mins`
`03:23.15`	`Patlabor221`	`good`
`03:23.29`	`KR`	`DTR - 2.6 is only a recompile away ;)`
`03:23.40`	`DTRemenak`	`lol, that's what they say...`
`03:24.05`	`KR`	`Pat - it'll even resize NTFS partitions`
`03:24.10`	`DTRemenak`	`really?`
`03:24.12`	`DTRemenak`	`cool`
`03:24.14`	`SGI`	`WriteUninstaller "$INSTDIR\Uninstall.exe"`
`03:24.16`	`Patlabor221`	`that is nice`
`03:24.25`	`SGI`	`sorry`
`03:24.34`	`KR`	`has drag-n-drop CD burning from within the file manager`
`03:24.42`	`Patlabor221`	`mehh`
`03:24.54`	`KR`	`and does win network shares like nobodies business`
`03:24.58`	`DTRemenak`	`does it say *EXPERIMENTAL* before it does any NTFS stuff, or is linux-ntfs it out of that territory now?`
`03:25.18`	`KR`	`well, they have had it stable since Nov last year doing NTFS`
`03:25.18`	`purple_cow`	`i think read is still EXPERIMENTAL, and write is still DANGEROUS`
`03:25.27`	`KR`	`nlol pat`
`03:25.41`	`DTRemenak`	`lol`
`03:25.48`	`DTRemenak`	`kr: gotta get rid of that "n"`
`03:25.55`	`KR`	`nno nway`
`03:26.21`	`KR`	`hey - anyone notice bzg's webblog today?`
`03:26.24`	`KR`	`:(`
`03:26.37`	`Patlabor221`	`yes`
`03:26.48`	`JBDiGriz`	`do we have any underage people left in the channel?`
`03:27.02`	`KR`	`she gone for good, or just busy with the new old job?`
`03:27.11`	`Patlabor221`	`more sick of the crap`
`03:27.16`	`KR`	`not unless 37 is underage :)`
`03:27.33`	`JBDiGriz`	`i think ibot is a little racy at times`
`03:27.39`	`KR`	`that sucks - tell her she'll be missed`
`03:28.00`	`Patlabor221`	`I too am seeing the poinlessness of the "comunity"`
`03:28.04`	`DTRemenak`	`AHH...there's a click in this song...dang MP3Pro`
`03:28.23`	`KR`	`it's small`
`03:28.44`	`Patlabor221`	`and most of it is jerks`
`03:28.48`	`JBDiGriz`	`There are a number of people in the greater "community" who will drive you nuts if you pay attention to them. I tend not to play as much unless I know the people who are playing.`
`03:28.52`	`Patlabor221`	`the group of "cool" people is small`
`03:29.02`	`KR`	`so one baddy makes it worse than if more peeps were invovled`
`03:29.11`	`SGI`	`2.7`
`03:29.27`	`*** join/#bzflag Megachirops (~425d2c70@p50912BAA.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`03:29.31`	`DTRemenak`	`higher percentage`
`03:29.36`	`*** join/#bzflag Spiff (~Spiff@12-223-213-142.client.insightbb.com)`
`03:29.36`	`KR`	`wow mega is alive`
`03:29.49`	`Patlabor221`	`the odds of going onto a server and finding somone who is a) cheating b) being and ass or C) teamkilling is not very large`
`03:29.58`	`Patlabor221`	`when there are less then 100 people on total`
`03:29.59`	`Spiff`	`OoOoO... and on IRC. :-)`
`03:30.07`	`Megachirops`	`lol, g'day all`
`03:30.27`	`JBDiGriz`	`Actually I think it is rather large to find one of those on most public servers. That's why I tend towards people I know.`
`03:30.31`	`KR`	`agreed Pat`
`03:30.47`	`Spiff`	`Actually, Patlabor.. actually.. if you combine those.. not counting each one as being improbabile.. I'm afraid the odds are fairly large.`
`03:30.58`	`Spiff`	`Whoops. Cute that first Actually.`
`03:31.03`	`Spiff`	`cut^`
`03:31.10`	`Patlabor221`	`sorry there should have been a NOT there in the frot`
`03:31.13`	`Patlabor221`	`heh`
`03:31.23`	`Patlabor221`	`or remove the not at the end`
`03:31.31`	`Spiff`	`Geez! My grammar and spelling is going out the window tonight.`
`03:31.34`	`KR`	`not transference`
`03:31.37`	`Spiff`	`Hehehe Patlabor. :-)`
`03:32.05`	`Spiff`	`The only servers that I've never seen that stuff on are the Quol servers... I've actually only had to kick/ban two or three people there..ever.`
`03:32.07`	`JBDiGriz`	`There are a lot of subtle cheats out there which look like lag and affect all play on the servers.`
`03:32.21`	`Spiff`	`Yep. There's someone in the League who uses 'em too.`
`03:32.52`	`JBDiGriz`	`Usually the people who use them act like asses and start gloating about how good they are.`
`03:32.53`	`Spiff`	`Chik suspects it also. It's just too convenient for it to be natural lag.`
`03:33.08`	`ElectricElf`	`\|tim\| picked up a cheater on xmission the other day who was able to turn midair, apparently.`
`03:33.09`	`Spiff`	`LoL. Sounds like this person. :-)`
`03:33.21`	`DTRemenak`	`I really doubt there's just one`
`03:33.25`	`Patlabor221`	`your dialy max is just over 75 people, it peaks to near 100 on sundays, total average is only 54 people`
`03:33.44`	`Spiff`	`I banned a guy from Turkey a couple of times for turning in mid air.`
`03:33.57`	`Patlabor221`	`bans don't do squat`
`03:34.00`	`JBDiGriz`	`I would say our cheaters are near 30% right now.`
`03:34.00`	`ElectricElf`	`Spiff: Ah, okay, I wasn't really sure if I trusted the report.`
`03:34.03`	`Spiff`	`Well.. maybe not. But this person is good enough to make the supposed cheat count.`
`03:34.03`	`ElectricElf`	`Spiff: Good to get confirmation.`
`03:34.21`	`ElectricElf`	`JBDiGriz: I don't see anywhere near that much on xmission, unless you count quit/join people, and the really subtle lagcheaters.`
`03:34.25`	`Patlabor221`	`I would say higher if you count the IP loging clients`
`03:34.28`	`Spiff`	`This guy used the callsign "Simon and Garfunkel" a lot.`
`03:34.44`	`ElectricElf`	`Patlabor221: How's logging IPs cheating?`
`03:34.47`	`JBDiGriz`	`I count the subtle cheaters "thin" tanks included`
`03:34.53`	`Patlabor221`	`it's a modified client`
`03:34.58`	`ElectricElf`	`JBDiGriz: "thin" tanks?`
`03:35.04`	`Spiff`	`Yeah... and some people use it negatively. :(`
`03:35.09`	`Patlabor221`	`and it's not something that the client is suposed to have access too`
`03:35.12`	`JBDiGriz`	`It's easy to make your tank thinner than it shoud be.`
`03:35.17`	`Spiff`	`I, for one, like being able to use an alias and not have some jerk telling everyone who I am.`
`03:35.19`	`ElectricElf`	`Patlabor221: I don't lump everybody who has a modified or tweaked client automatically in the "cheat" group.`
`03:35.26`	`DTRemenak`	`Spiff: get dialup :)`
`03:35.34`	`Patlabor221`	`I'm not, that is why I said, "If you count..."`
`03:35.49`	`Spiff`	`AHHHHHH!! DTR said the D word! :-P`
`03:35.51`	`ElectricElf`	`Patlabor221: I've been sorely tempted to improve the radar a few times. I'd submit the patch but until it got more widely-used it's conceivable I would have an advantage.`
`03:35.56`	`KR`	`hmmm - I think any mod to a client would be a cheat. Not so?`
`03:35.58`	`Patlabor221`	`there are many difrent levels of cheats`
`03:36.11`	`ElectricElf`	`Patlabor221: Heck, maybe it would suck for other people but would be truly _excellent_ for me, just because I designed it for me in mind.`
`03:36.17`	`ElectricElf`	`Patlabor221: That's certainly not a cheat.`
`03:36.18`	`Spiff`	`Any mod that gives you a special advantage that others don't have.. yep.`
`03:36.28`	`Patlabor221`	`in your opinion`
`03:36.33`	`ElectricElf`	`Any mod that exploits a bug in the server is a cheat, IMO.`
`03:36.37`	`KR`	`mine too.`
`03:36.47`	`learner`	`focus people, we still need 2, 4, and 7 on the invisibles..`
`03:36.52`	`DTRemenak`	`I tend to think, interface changes aren't cheats...every person is different, might'n't they want different interfaces too?`
`03:36.55`	`Patlabor221`	`sure those are the ones that are on the borderline for some`
`03:37.00`	`ElectricElf`	`DTRemenak: That's the point yes.`
`03:37.00`	`captain_proton`	`wow, its like there's been conversation in here the last two weeks, and i haven't paid attention to any of it`
`03:37.09`	`Spiff`	`But what if it's something that gives you a game advantage? Say some sort of special hunting/lockon system? If other playes don't have it.. it's a cheat.`
`03:37.11`	`Patlabor221`	`if those were all the ones we had to worry about, I would be fine :)_`
`03:37.19`	`JBDiGriz`	`Design it, code it up, and if it makes it into the client code base, it's no longer a cheat. Many of us would be glad to include something like that as long as it can be turned off by the user.`
`03:37.30`	`ElectricElf`	`DTRemenak: I'm totally unwilling to automatically lump everybody who doesn't have the exact same client as everybody else as a "cheat".`
`03:37.32`	`Patlabor221`	`spiff then techicnaly a larger monitor gives you an advantage`
`03:37.36`	`Patlabor221`	`as the radar has more res`
`03:37.40`	`Spiff`	`LoL`
`03:37.45`	`DTRemenak`	`exactly...publish it as a patch, everyone has access to it`
`03:37.55`	`Patlabor221`	`even if it's not perfect`
`03:37.56`	`Spiff`	`That is something that the user can change though.`
`03:37.56`	`JBDiGriz`	`I just ran into someone who seems to be able to lock onto narrow tanks amazingly easily.`
`03:38.02`	`ElectricElf`	`DTRemenak: Yah. I'd submit a patch.`
`03:38.06`	`Spiff`	`What if the user has a huge monitor.. but can't code? :-P`
`03:38.12`	`Patlabor221`	`knightmare says he's got an aimbot`
`03:38.21`	`DTRemenak`	`what if a user has a 4' pda, but CAN code???`
`03:38.29`	`Spiff`	`LoL DTR. :-)`
`03:38.31`	`Megachirops`	`lol@DTR`
`03:38.42`	`DTRemenak`	`anyone see a WinCE client???`
`03:38.44`	`KR`	`a 4 foot PDA?`
`03:38.46`	`ElectricElf`	`JBDiGriz: Anyhoo, what's this "thin tank" cheat?`
`03:38.46`	`Spiff`	`I guess they're just flat out cooked. ;-)`
`03:38.47`	`JBDiGriz`	`Then the two of them could work together, that's why it's called a community. ;)`
`03:39.02`	`ElectricElf`	`JBDiGriz: The one where the tank appears normal, but is always significantly smaller as far as collisions are concerned?`
`03:39.04`	`Patlabor221`	`no GL on CE`
`03:39.11`	`DTRemenak`	`KR: so I missed shift ;)`
`03:39.15`	`captain_proton`	`Patlabor221: the sg1 rippage is proceeding fastily :)`
`03:39.17`	`KR`	`lol`
`03:39.22`	`Patlabor221`	`keen`
`03:39.24`	`Patlabor221`	`got season 4?`
`03:39.28`	`captain_proton`	`no :(`
`03:39.31`	`JBDiGriz`	`Very simple, the bullet hit check is in the client. Just make your tank thinner.`
`03:39.32`	`DTRemenak`	`patlabor: so, write it in the Win API...`
`03:39.45`	`Patlabor221`	`a software renderr, no thanks`
`03:39.50`	`DTRemenak`	`lol`
`03:39.58`	`Patlabor221`	`software is dead`
`03:40.00`	`DTRemenak`	`not ideal, i'd agree`
`03:40.04`	`JBDiGriz`	`It's separate from the obstacle check, so it's not all collisions.`
`03:40.17`	`ElectricElf`	`JBDiGriz: Ah, okay.`
`03:40.29`	`ElectricElf`	`JBDiGriz: Yeah, I haven't seen that one myself but I've heard of it.`
`03:40.48`	`Patlabor221`	`narow/wide is sent as a state thing, so both display and collisons should use the same thing`
`03:40.51`	`captain_proton`	`Patlabor221: well - sorta`
`03:40.51`	`ElectricElf`	`I guess one of the plusses of a map with lots of the higher-end superflags is that the field is somewhat levelled with respect to cheaters.`
`03:41.00`	`captain_proton`	`crystalspace's software renderer is teh neat`
`03:41.05`	`JBDiGriz`	`It's hard to detect. When you see it, you have to wonder if it's lag or something else.`
`03:41.10`	`Patlabor221`	`well some are`
`03:41.17`	`ElectricElf`	`Patlabor221: According to JBDiGriz, the bullet collision code is done clientside.`
`03:41.23`	`ElectricElf`	`Patlabor221: That would certainly allow for the behaviour described.`
`03:41.26`	`Patlabor221`	`yeah it all is`
`03:41.40`	`Patlabor221`	`sure it's the same as the "I can't die" think`
`03:41.43`	`Patlabor221`	`so he can do what ever he wants`
`03:41.50`	`Patlabor221`	`he's just makeing it look tricky`
`03:42.04`	`Patlabor221`	`it dosn't have anything to do with the "narrow" flag`
`03:42.07`	`JBDiGriz`	`As is the check for carrying thin/narrow flags. The "I can't die" is obvious. The "thin" tank could be lag.`
`03:42.20`	`KR`	`or just a close miss`
`03:42.25`	`Patlabor221`	`or he shrank his tank rad`
`03:42.34`	`ElectricElf`	`Patlabor221: Yes, we covered that a while ago :)`
`03:42.43`	`Patlabor221`	`well I wasn't here was I? :)`
`03:42.50`	`ElectricElf`	`Patlabor221: Apparently not! :)`
`03:42.57`	`JBDiGriz`	`You could change the tank to a square check instead of the spherical check.`
`03:42.59`	`Patlabor221`	`I may have been feeding`
`03:43.25`	`ElectricElf`	`JBDiGriz: Frankly, I'm not too concerned about the kinds of cheats that just make tanks harder to hit.`
`03:43.32`	`ElectricElf`	`JBDiGriz: (For xmission I mean)`
`03:43.38`	`Patlabor221`	`well that all ain't gonna be solved till a masive ripin hapens`
`03:43.46`	`ElectricElf`	`JBDiGriz: There are usually enough people with GMs/Ls, or people who are just damned good players, that it doesn't matter.`
`03:44.23`	`JBDiGriz`	`EE: but it drives away the newer players who are getting frustrated that they can't hit anything and don't understand why.`
`03:44.28`	`Patlabor221`	`cap, if you can't get season 4 I can look into puting them in the DVDrom on asgard`
`03:44.31`	`Spiff`	`Yes. Tho it is annoying to pump 10 GM's into a player and watch them all "miss" him when you know he couldn't have dodged them.`
`03:44.37`	`Patlabor221`	`since soon asgard will be using less bandwith and resources`
`03:44.44`	`ElectricElf`	`Spiff: When it's that obvious they get banned. :)`
`03:45.07`	`captain_proton`	`hmmmmmm`
`03:45.19`	`JBDiGriz`	`Has anyone noticed the bullets appearing out of nowhere and killing a player cheat?`
`03:45.21`	`Patlabor221`	`more then likey BZBB is moving tomorow`
`03:45.23`	`ElectricElf`	`JBDiGriz: I dunno, I'm ambivalent about it.`
`03:45.28`	`Spiff`	`Sure. When there's an admin around. :-)`
`03:45.31`	`captain_proton`	`Patlabor221: moving to where?`
`03:45.37`	`Patlabor221`	`arizone`
`03:45.39`	`Patlabor221`	`arizona`
`03:45.44`	`ElectricElf`	`JBDiGriz: I'd rather the possibility didn't exist, but it does - given that I'd rather suffer them than ban people who are innocent.`
`03:45.57`	`ElectricElf`	`JBDiGriz: (Since you're quite right - it really is pretty much impossible to distinguish.)`
`03:46.00`	`Spiff`	`It seems that xmission has been loosely adminned at times. That's why I don't play there.`
`03:46.09`	`Spiff`	`Well... that.. and my client crashes there. I don't know why.`
`03:46.13`	`Patlabor221`	`that was the first cheat I thought somone wold make, simple finger of death, spawn a shot in side them`
`03:46.15`	`Patlabor221`	`boom`
`03:46.36`	`JBDiGriz`	`EE: Exactly right, we can't discover the cheats at this point, but it would be nice to add some code to help admins determine what's happening.`
`03:46.38`	`Spiff`	`There was a guy on proton's server ages ago that did that. :-)`
`03:46.46`	`ElectricElf`	`Spiff: Should be better now, with respect to adminning. Dunno about the client crash, you'd have to ask tim.`
`03:46.49`	`Spiff`	`Back in the days of the "Decks" server. :-D`
`03:46.50`	`ElectricElf`	`s/tim/Tim/`
`03:46.57`	`JBDiGriz`	`There still seem to be some around.`
`03:47.15`	`ElectricElf`	`JBDiGriz: I've been tempted to ask people to stand still :)`
`03:47.16`	`Spiff`	`Hehehe. I'm not sure how that works either, ElectricElf. My client never crashes on any other servers.. only there.`
`03:47.20`	`ElectricElf`	`JBDiGriz: (So I could check myself.)`
`03:47.26`	`Patlabor221`	`jbd, are you talking about login all server data?`
`03:47.29`	`ElectricElf`	`Spiff: I think he tests things out there.`
`03:47.36`	`Spiff`	`Hmm. Dunno.`
`03:47.49`	`ElectricElf`	`JBDiGriz: But even since running into the invulnerable cheat which could be turned on/off, I've figured it's pointless to ask ;)`
`03:48.05`	`JBDiGriz`	`I'm not sure if logging the server data is the right answer. Although that's certainly a possibility.`
`03:48.25`	`Patlabor221`	`the only other thing is to put stricter checks on the server`
`03:48.28`	`Patlabor221`	`or more checks`
`03:48.47`	`Spiff`	`Dumb question- Why's bzbb moving, Patlabor?`
`03:48.51`	`JBDiGriz`	`or only add the checks when an admin requests it.`
`03:49.01`	`Patlabor221`	`better host`
`03:49.11`	`Patlabor221`	`why not check all the time?`
`03:49.18`	`Spiff`	`CooL.`
`03:49.19`	`Patlabor221`	`not like it'll use that much CPU`
`03:49.28`	`JBDiGriz`	`Because it puts it in the path of Hurricane Marty.`
`03:49.31`	`JBDiGriz`	`;)`
`03:49.35`	`Patlabor221`	`and cus I don't need to deal with the server kidies anymore`
`03:50.22`	`Patlabor221`	`Nidhoggr is much better at webserver admin and security then I am`
`03:50.35`	`Spiff`	`Ohh. He's going to host it?`
`03:50.37`	`JBDiGriz`	`I'll have to start playing around in the server rather than the client. It's not like I'm the c++ expert around here. :P`
`03:50.39`	`Patlabor221`	`yes
`03:50.45`	`Spiff`	`I get it. :-)`
`03:50.49`	`Patlabor221`	`the server don't do much`
`03:50.55`	`Patlabor221`	`it dosnt' have a proper game state`
`03:51.40`	`Patlabor221`	`thats one reason why the server could not pick the spawn point`
`03:52.18`	`JBDiGriz`	`I often spawn into the path of bullets, so I'm not sure that the spawning code is doing much for use anyway.`
`03:52.42`	`Patlabor221`	`it's suposed to try and not put you in the front of shots, but I think it just does the best it can`
`03:54.53`	`JBDiGriz`	`When are we going to 1.9.4?`
`03:55.48`	`Patlabor221`	`when ever someone thinks we are ready for a build`
`03:57.12`	`JBDiGriz`	`Let me know. I'm still willing to do the mac distribution. I hope that will keep me in the "cool" crowd B-)`
`03:57.19`	`Patlabor221`	`what are the outstanding bugs?`
`03:57.31`	`captain_proton`	`1.9.4?`
`03:57.37`	`Patlabor221`	`next build`
`03:57.38`	`captain_proton`	`did we progress past 1.9.0?`
`03:57.43`	`Patlabor221`	`a while ago`
`03:57.47`	`captain_proton`	`wow`
`03:57.49`	`captain_proton`	`i've been out of it`
`03:57.50`	`Patlabor221`	`you didn't read the version memo did you?`
`03:58.21`	`captain_proton`	`i did`
`03:58.28`	`Patlabor221`	`we bump the rev on each testing build, or when ever "big" features go in`
`03:58.31`	`captain_proton`	`but it didn't say anything about releasing...`
`03:58.32`	`JBDiGriz`	`There are about 14 listed in BUGS. There's no priority on them.`
`03:58.34`	`captain_proton`	`ah`
`03:58.51`	`Patlabor221`	`so went from 1.9.0 to 1.9.1 when we changed the version stuff "just cus"`
`03:58.59`	`captain_proton`	`=)`
`03:59.00`	`JBDiGriz`	`They are not "releases", they are "testing" distributions. ;)`
`03:59.01`	`Patlabor221`	`1.9.2 on a proto change to add team to shot data`
`03:59.19`	`Patlabor221`	`1.9.3 for the first "alpha" test build`
`03:59.21`	`Patlabor221`	`yes`
`03:59.31`	`Patlabor221`	`now 1.9.4 cus 1.9.3 was total crap`
`03:59.43`	`JBDiGriz`	`Unfortunately 1.9.3 wasn't tagged, so we really need to go to 1.9.4 so we know what we're running.`
`03:59.56`	`TimRiker`	`soon to be 1.9.5 cause 1.9.4 is total crap.`
`03:59.56`	`Patlabor221`	`yeah`
`03:59.58`	`Patlabor221`	`that too`
`04:00.07`	`Patlabor221`	`it is a never ending cycle :)`
`04:00.08`	`captain_proton`	`TimRiker: heh`
`04:00.22`	`Patlabor221`	`or my fave term "NFG"`
`04:00.42`	`captain_proton`	`its like the anti-me`
`04:00.44`	`JBDiGriz`	`I see Tim's been adding code again. :P`
`04:00.55`	`TimRiker`	`heh`
`04:01.26`	`captain_proton`	`Nifty Frappuchino Gardens?`
`04:01.40`	`Patlabor221`	`not quite`
`04:01.40`	`JBDiGriz`	`~farq`
`04:01.44`		`I think you meant fuck. dont beat around the bush, man.`
`04:01.50`	`Patlabor221`	`first word "NO" last word "Good"`
`04:01.58`	`Patlabor221`	`instert apropriate F word`
`04:02.01`	`*** join/#bzflag Megachirops (~425d2c70@p50912BAA.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`04:02.07`	`Patlabor221`	`yeah like that`
`04:02.17`	`TimRiker`	`ok, calm down.`
`04:02.36`	`JBDiGriz`	`Tell it to ibot, she's the one with the language.`
`04:03.31`	`Noodleman`	`this is such a cool picture`
`04:03.34`	`Noodleman`	`http://www.noodleroni.com/photos.php?viewphoto=dsc00107`
`04:04.04`	`JBDiGriz`	`That doesn't look like Indiana.`
`04:04.15`	`Patlabor221`	`hot lizard action`
`04:04.27`	`*** part/#bzflag Noodleman (~tuckerm@adsl-66-72-31-172.dsl.kntpin.ameritech.net)`
`04:04.32`	`JBDiGriz`	`They are "horny" toads.`
`04:04.35`	`*** join/#bzflag Noodleman (~tuckerm@adsl-66-72-31-172.dsl.kntpin.ameritech.net)`
`04:04.43`	`Noodleman`	`what that farq?`
`04:04.46`	`Noodleman`	`hehe`
`04:04.56`	`Noodleman`	`that's actually a reptile show in utah`
`04:06.17`	`Spiff`	`LoL Noodleman. :-)`
`04:08.04`	`JBDiGriz`	`It seems the net has calmed down a bit. 3 hours ago, I was getting hit hard by people connecting to my web server.`
`04:13.36`	`Noodleman`	`http://www.noodleroni.com/photos.php?viewphoto=dsc00111`
`04:13.46`	`Noodleman`	`can you imaging that snake costing $1000?`
`04:14.03`	`Noodleman`	`it's beautiful, but i would pay that much`
`04:15.03`	`Megachirops`	`would or wouldn't?`
`04:15.11`	`Noodleman`	`bah, wouldn't`
`04:15.16`	`Noodleman`	`dsylexia :-)`
`04:15.42`	`Spiff`	`A beautiful snake?`
`04:15.47`	`Noodleman`	`yea`
`04:15.58`	`Patlabor221`	`purdy`
`04:16.05`	`Noodleman`	`i like snakes`
`04:16.11`	`Patlabor221`	`I like the next picture`
`04:16.15`	`Patlabor221`	`impresive`
`04:16.16`	`Spiff`	`That's one big if. ;-)`
`04:16.18`	`Spiff`	`Hehehe`
`04:16.37`	`Noodleman`	`i've got a rosy boa, a california king snake, and a ball python loose somewheres :-)`
`04:16.50`	`Patlabor221`	`dsc00114 that is your best work :)`
`04:17.26`	`Noodleman`	`yes, if i do say so myself`
`04:17.31`	`Spiff`	`Oh wow. Is that cornfield in Indiana? ;-)`
`04:17.32`	`Spiff`	`LoL`
`04:17.43`	`Patlabor221`	`it's like a tile/caulking quesadia`
`04:17.44`	`Noodleman`	`i think that's nebraska, but i'm not sure`
`04:17.45`	`Spiff`	`Oh.. and Amish.`
`04:18.08`	`Noodleman`	`this is my favorite pic`
`04:18.11`	`Noodleman`	`http://www.noodleroni.com/photos.php?viewphoto=dsc00068`
`04:18.16`	`Patlabor221`	`do they have many munitions there spiff?`
`04:18.19`	`Spiff`	`It's a nice corn field. ;-)`
`04:18.25`	`Noodleman`	`utah state house`
`04:18.32`	`Spiff`	`OoOo... that r0x0rz.`
`04:18.37`	`Spiff`	`Excuse me, Patlabor?`
`04:18.42`	`Megachirops`	`i want one`
`04:18.49`	`Patlabor221`	`it is ammoville`
`04:19.06`	`Patlabor221`	`one would hope it is full of amunition`
`04:19.14`	`Noodleman`	`i bet mortarburg is nearby`
`04:19.17`	`Megachirops`	`one would hope not`
`04:19.22`	`Noodleman`	`and nuketon`
`04:19.30`	`Spiff`	`Bah. LoL`
`04:19.35`	`Patlabor221`	`well if it is not, then perhaps they named it improperly`
`04:19.45`	`Patlabor221`	`and should put LACK infront off it`
`04:19.47`	`Spiff`	`We call 'em Ammo's here... like Awwmo.`
`04:19.48`	`Patlabor221`	`or a !`
`04:19.52`	`Spiff`	`Or Ahmo.`
`04:20.50`	`Patlabor221`	`they don't fit into the sidebar :(`
`04:20.55`	`KR`	`bye all`
`04:22.53`	`Patlabor221`	`damn, that reminds me, I have to go pick up shogun tomorow`
`04:22.56`	`*** join/#bzflag Megachirops (~425d2c70@p50912BAA.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`04:23.08`	`Megachirops`	`lol, F5 still works`
`04:23.52`	`Spiff`	`LoL Mega. :-)`
`04:24.09`	`Spiff`	`Shogun? Like the one with Richard Chaimberland in it?`
`04:24.22`	`Patlabor221`	`yes!`
`04:24.24`	`Spiff`	`Chaimberlan^ Bah. I dunno how it's spelled! :-P`
`04:24.29`	`Patlabor221`	`anjesan`
`04:24.29`	`Spiff`	`That movie r0x0rz.`
`04:24.34`	`Patlabor221`	`it's not a movie`
`04:24.39`	`Spiff`	`Mini series. :-P`
`04:24.47`	`Patlabor221`	`there ya go skip`
`04:24.53`	`Spiff`	`It's a lot of people on camera acting... so I lump it in with movies. :-)`
`04:25.19`	`Noodleman`	`excuses...`
`04:25.38`	`Noodleman`	`just concede that you don't know the diff between a movie and a mini-series`
`04:25.43`	`Patlabor221`	`so did star treck 5, but we don't count that as a movie now do we?`
`04:25.56`	`Megachirops`	`lol..`
`04:26.14`	`DTRemenak`	`mm, the Final Frontier...`
`04:26.26`	`Spiff`	`Anyway.. it's good. Tho I think his stating "I'm not a God d***ed sodomite" doesn't seem to fit in light of his recent publicity.`
`04:27.10`	`Patlabor221`	`rememeber, actors are NOT there characters, there is that fantasy/reality line :)`
`04:27.13`	`Spiff`	`LoL Noodleman.`
`04:27.39`	`Spiff`	`True true. But I'd think that it'd be hard to act something that you didn't feel. You can tell that I'm not an actor. :-)`
`04:27.52`	`Spiff`	`easy to act ^^`
`04:27.54`	`Patlabor221`	`that is the entire point of being an ACTOR`
`04:28.02`	`Patlabor221`	`that's what makes them good`
`04:28.09`	`Spiff`	`Yep. Quite true.`
`04:28.19`	`Noodleman`	`life is a stage, therefore everyone is an actor, ergo, everyone is fake`
`04:28.22`	`Noodleman`	`:-P`
`04:28.24`	`Patlabor221`	`so more props to him`
`04:28.39`	`Patlabor221`	`well the matrix does have you.`
`04:28.49`	`Spiff`	`Man.. he got to kiss some okay lookin' women! What a bummer.`
`04:29.07`	`Patlabor221`	`I'm sure he didn't mind`
`04:29.18`	`Spiff`	`Pff! I don't see how anyone could mind!`
`04:29.18`	`Spiff`	`LoL`
`04:29.28`	`Noodleman`	`Ewwwww! i don't wanna kiss you!`
`04:29.40`	`Spiff`	`I'm talking about the women, Noodleman. :P`
`04:29.42`	`Spiff`	`LoL`
`04:29.44`	`Noodleman`	`you might give me diseases!`
`04:30.03`	`Spiff`	`That's what my g/f said... errrrr`
`04:30.05`	`Spiff`	`LoL`
`04:30.34`	`Patlabor221`	`this is true, she did, got it on tape :)`
`04:30.47`	`Spiff`	`Hehehe Patlabor. :-)`
`04:30.57`	`Spiff`	`You must've spent some $ to get that tape made. ;-)`
`04:31.25`	`Patlabor221`	`well 1.98$ she sent it to me as a MP3, so I had to dump it to tape`
`04:31.54`	`Patlabor221`	`but it's on a good TDK so don't worry`
`04:32.21`	`Spiff`	`Hehehe. You must've confused our voices. She's the one begging to kiss me. ;-)`
`04:32.33`	`Spiff`	`See?`
`04:32.35`	`Spiff`	`LoL`
`04:33.01`	`Spiff`	`The question is.. which g/f? ;-)`
`04:33.12`	`Spiff`	`Oops. Did I type that?`
`04:33.19`	`DTRemenak`	`lol`
`04:33.39`	`Spiff`	`marker^`
`04:34.13`	`Spiff`	`Ahhh!`
`04:34.24`	`SGI`	`open a bottle of wine....I ahve the passwd for SF`
`04:34.47`	`Patlabor221`	`I don't think he knows where that line I was talking about is.`
`04:34.59`	`Patlabor221`	`and my logs`
`04:35.00`	`Spiff`	`I can't win. :-P`
`04:35.10`	`DTRemenak`	`once you've said something here, you've said it`
`04:35.18`	`Spiff`	`LoL`
`04:35.31`	`Patlabor221`	`asgard isn't at my home`
`04:35.34`	`SGI`	`what you doing Spiff`
`04:35.36`	`Noodleman`	`it's in my logs too`
`04:35.44`	`Noodleman`	`and freenode's, if they log`
`04:35.48`	`DTRemenak`	`And I can always hit save...`
`04:35.54`	`DTRemenak`	`or printscreen`
`04:36.03`	`Spiff`	`;-)`
`04:36.21`	`Patlabor221`	`I love teh internet, it's soo much cooler then the internet :)`
`04:36.24`	`SGI`	`thank you`
`04:36.31`	`DTRemenak`	`sounds like fun, I've always wanted to try disarming a bomb`
`04:36.40`	`Noodleman`	`i shall now use my l33t sk1lz, and find out who spiff's g/f is`
`04:36.40`	`Spiff`	`LoL`
`04:36.49`	`DTRemenak`	`mega: I can get faster service ;)`
`04:36.55`	`Megachirops`	`lol`
`04:36.56`	`Spiff`	`I don't have an "offical" g/f at the moment.`
`04:36.57`	`Patlabor221`	`the P99s will be gone by then`
`04:37.10`	`DTRemenak`	`but the mailbombs won't`
`04:37.16`	`SGI`	`may I help you Mega`
`04:37.21`	`Noodleman`	`just a "de facto" g/f`
`04:37.28`	`Megachirops`	`no, thx.. i think i can handle it`
`04:37.43`	`Spiff`	`Her name is Mandi. :-)`
`04:37.47`	`Noodleman`	`haven't been mutually recogized as [gb]/f`
`04:37.58`	`SGI`	`I used to disarm bombs in the army`
`04:38.10`	`Patlabor221`	`ahh that explains a lot :)`
`04:38.11`	`Megachirops`	`that sounds like a fun job`
`04:38.14`	`DTRemenak`	`really? I hear they're using robots now`
`04:38.35`	`Noodleman`	`i think he is :-P`
`04:38.37`	`SGI`	`no Im not`
`04:38.41`	`DTRemenak`	`I don't think so`
`04:38.46`	`Spiff`	`LoL`
`04:38.49`	`Spiff`	`:-)`
`04:38.50`	`SGI`	`They fired me...`
`04:38.50`	`Noodleman`	`SGI: :-)`
`04:38.53`	`DTRemenak`	`that I can see`
`04:39.06`	`DTRemenak`	`that last comment was to mega, not to SGI`
`04:39.20`	`DTRemenak`	`permanently wired in, huh?`
`04:39.32`	`Patlabor221`	`hmmm they are out of P99s gonna have to sub in K99s`
`04:39.38`	`Megachirops`	`shall we call you 3rd of 19?`
`04:39.39`	`SGI`	`I blow up to many "Spiff"`
`04:39.49`	`SGI`	`..ohh sorrry robots`
`04:40.11`	`Megachirops`	`lol`
`04:40.20`	`Spiff`	`Yep. I've got built in USB ports, DVD drives, Ethernet adapters....`
`04:40.21`	`Spiff`	`;-)`
`04:40.52`	`Spiff`	`Wake up, DTRemenak.`
`04:40.56`	`Spiff`	`The Matrix has you.`
`04:40.57`	`Megachirops`	`ya better have an ATI video care or you're gonna have a hard time with HL2`
`04:41.04`	`Noodleman`	`i can put an ethernet cable in my mouth and Own every box in the net, just by thinking about it :-)`
`04:41.18`	`Spiff`	`LoL Noodleman`
`04:41.24`	`SGI`	`in your mouth`
`04:41.38`	`SGI`	`just one port`
`04:41.38`	`Noodleman`	`would you rather me put it someplace else?`
`04:41.40`	`DTRemenak`	`not if someone unplugs the other end of said cable`
`04:41.48`	`Megachirops`	`LMAO!`
`04:41.50`	`Spiff`	`Yes. Your ear.`
`04:42.00`	`DTRemenak`	`an ear is input only, spiff ;)`
`04:42.06`	`Spiff`	`Nose then.`
`04:42.11`	`Spiff`	`That's sorta an input..`
`04:42.15`	`Spiff`	`But an output sometimes. :-)`
`04:42.20`	`Spiff`	`So we can call it input/output.`
`04:42.21`	`Spiff`	`:-D`
`04:42.25`	`DTRemenak`	`"I breath, and the world is mine"`
`04:42.29`	`SGI`	`stop him`
`04:42.39`	`DTRemenak`	`stop who?`
`04:42.44`	`Spiff`	`And in case you didn't notice, the mouth is an input too. ;-)`
`04:42.46`	`SGI`	`breath breath in the air`
`04:42.59`	`SGI`	`I/O`
`04:43.05`	`Noodleman`	`and an output, when there is a buffer overflow`
`04:43.15`	`Spiff`	`Or a virus. ;)`
`04:43.27`	`DTRemenak`	`or a worm...a real big worm`
`04:43.35`	`SGI`	`7 ports all are I/O`
`04:43.39`	`Patlabor221`	`then just flush the buffer ya dumbass`
`04:44.19`	`DTRemenak`	`once it's overflowing, it's too late to flush`
`04:44.28`	`DTRemenak`	`that holds true for many situations`
`04:44.42`	`SGI`	`sgi-`
`04:45.41`	`SGI`	`why I cant see the helpmsg about`
`04:46.07`	`Patlabor221`	`is there a file for it?`
`04:46.15`	`SGI`	`yes`
`04:46.50`	`SGI`	`-helpmsg config/mm/helpmsg.txt about`
`04:47.56`	`DTRemenak`	`when you join the server type /help about`
`04:48.07`	`learner`	`shleepy mee bee`
`04:48.11`	`learner`	`g'night`
`04:48.12`	`DTRemenak`	`or maybe your parameters are backwards`
`04:48.15`	`SGI`	`with a couple words I can see`
`04:48.28`	`SGI`	`nite`
`04:48.44`	`DTRemenak`	`g'night learner`
`04:48.50`	`SGI`	`when im going to write all "bible" ........nothing happen`
`04:49.09`	`Spiff`	`C-ya learner.`
`04:49.29`	`SGI`	`learner.......good night`
`04:54.18`	`DTRemenak`	`time to go to bed, see you all later`
`04:54.52`	`SGI`	`nite all`
`04:55.05`	`SGI`	`bye bye to all`
`04:55.13`	`*** part/#bzflag SGI (~SGI@bgp01138bgs.sothfd01.mi.comcast.net)`
`04:55.44`	`Spiff`	`Wow.. and everyone drops out.`
`04:55.45`	`Spiff`	`:-)`
`04:55.53`	`Patlabor221`	`well it is geting late`
`04:56.00`	`Patlabor221`	`most of us have stuff to do in the AM`
`04:56.14`	`*** join/#bzflag triclops (~chatzilla@203-219-160-62-nsw.tpgi.com.au)`
`04:56.19`	`Patlabor221`	`like find a suplyer for EM P99s`
`04:56.42`	`Spiff`	`We do? Wow! Hehehehe.`
`04:57.08`	`Patlabor221`	`I don't think your certifed on the P99 yet man`
`04:58.06`	`Patlabor221`	`hmmm has a short rail, may need to go with G17s`
`04:58.39`	`*** join/#bzflag creeperz (~creeperz@host-11-76-220-24.midco.net)`
`04:59.05`	`Patlabor221`	`or super hardballs :)`
`05:06.12`	`Patlabor221`	`hmmmm they do have automaic kenetic K99s`
`05:11.51`	`CIA`	`03dbrosius * 12bzflag/win32 (date.dsp): make buildDate.cxx rebuild always on VC`
`05:12.34`	`*** join/#bzflag MrApathyCream (~MAC@balt-209-163-100-198.qis-dynamic-dialup.coretel.net)`
`05:14.23`	`CIA`	`03dbrosius * 12bzflag/win32 (4 files): add date project`
`05:37.24`	`*** join/#bzflag mmu_man (~revol@ALyon-209-1-18-121.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`06:37.17`	`*** join/#bzflag triclops (~caleb@203-219-160-62-nsw.tpgi.com.au)`
`06:49.20`	`MrApathyCream`	`arg list server down?`
`06:51.54`	`*** join/#bzflag triclops (~triclops@203-219-160-62-nsw.tpgi.com.au)`
`06:55.29`	`*** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-217-133-255-34.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)`
`07:34.46`	`captain_proton`	`what exactly are you interfacing the API with?`
`07:35.19`	`captain_proton`	`are you splitting the local player stuff from the UI?`
`07:35.40`	`triclops`	`i would like to`
`07:35.53`	`triclops`	`sorry - thats the plan`
`07:37.20`	`triclops`	`i would really like to spit the "game engine" stuff from being tied specifically to any IO`
`07:51.05`	`MrApathyCream`	`roger is a fightin' machine now :)`
`07:52.12`	`CIA`	`03dbrosius * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (playing.cxx): Roger gets rid of some of the yips, avoids shots instead`
`07:52.27`	`triclops`	`it fights like a newbie with an aimbot :)`
`07:57.45`	`MrApathyCream`	`roger 17-1 against 2 bots on xmission :)`
`07:59.23`	`triclops`	`not bad. i'm sure if the bots were given some evasion code they would be much more competetive :-)`
`08:07.27`	`MrApathyCream`	`prhaps`
`08:07.45`	`MrApathyCream`	`27-1, next game`
`08:09.47`	`triclops`	`how fast is it beating them?`
`08:16.26`	`MrApathyCream`	`pretty quick`
`08:16.44`	`MrApathyCream`	`they kill eachother way too much`
`08:16.49`	`MrApathyCream`	`(too)`
`08:17.46`	`triclops`	`yeah, i ran an almost recent roger on a random map and it took forever for it to find the bots (alive)`
`08:23.19`	`MrApathyCream`	`roger gets stuck sometimes`
`08:23.55`	`MrApathyCream`	`well, off to bed`
`08:23.58`	`triclops`	`hehe, pathfinding is soo easy for humans`
`08:35.19`	`*** join/#bzflag larsl (~larsl@c213-100-62-55.swipnet.se)`
`08:36.56`	`*** join/#bzflag MrCooper (~daenzer@dclient80-218-117-230.hispeed.ch)`
`08:47.21`	`*** join/#bzflag KTL_ (~KTL@scotty.kulnet.kuleuven.ac.be)`
`09:07.12`	`*** join/#bzflag bomber (~bomber@ap97.physik.uni-frankfurt.de)`
`09:07.16`	`bomber`	`moin`
`09:20.03`	`Chestal`	`tag`
`09:29.35`	`larsl`	`Hm, the client doesn't update _shotRange after it has started playing.`
`09:36.53`	`Chestal`	`I wish I could build badmin with g++ 2.95`
`09:38.11`	`larsl`	`It still doesn't link?`
`09:39.15`	`Chestal`	`always the same error, getId() and pack()`
`09:39.27`	`Chestal`	`maybe it would work in release mode, I always try debug mode`
`09:39.43`	`Chestal`	`larsl: I thin that _shotRange changes, but is never used directly inthe code at all`
`09:39.55`	`larsl`	`OK.`
`09:40.00`	`Chestal`	`larsl: it is indirectly used because _reload_time = "_shotRange / _shotSpeed"`
`09:40.14`	`larsl`	`Oh.`
`09:40.26`	`Chestal`	`but currently the cache does not get invalidtated when a variableit depends on changes`
`09:40.39`	`Chestal`	`that's an issue that has to be thought about`
`10:12.47`	`CIA`	`03larsl * 12bzflag/src/bzadmin (bzadmin.cxx): Exit cleaner when we lose the connection to the server`
`10:17.24`	`CIA`	`03larsl * 12bzflag/src/bzadmin (bzadmin.cxx): Distinguish between communication error and superkill`
`10:31.41`	`CIA`	`03larsl * 12bzflag/src/bzadmin (2 files): Remove old includes, add more doxygen comments`
`10:41.55`	`*** join/#bzflag purple_cow (~jupiter@home-dhcp6-158.colorado.edu) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:41.55`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+bbb !@68.111.116.228 gorb!@ sussudio!@] by leguin.freenode.net`
`10:41.55`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+bb !@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net cell!@] by leguin.freenode.net`
`10:47.52`	`*** join/#bzflag [dmp] (dennis@130.225.194.99)`
`10:49.27`	`CIA`	`03larsl * 12bzflag/src/bzadmin (2 files): Include xcurses.h if HAVE_XCURSES_H is defined, not if it's _not_ defined`
`10:53.03`	`Chestal`	`hi [dmp], how's the raytracer progressing?`
`10:57.16`	`CIA`	`03larsl * 12bzflag/ (acconfig.h): Removed acconfig.h, it's not used anymore`
`10:58.30`	`[dmp]`	`Erhm. Its an art-edition. It makes really awefull abstract pictures :-)`
`10:59.44`	`larsl`	`Did you get the shading to work?`
`11:01.25`	`[dmp]`	`No, that is what is causing my problems.`
`11:30.51`	`KTL_`	`does somebody know an alternative for maxima? (for linux)`
`11:31.03`	`KTL_`	`to do some basic calculations`
`11:31.14`	`KTL_`	`(but big ones)`
`11:40.45`	`Chestal`	`hmm, I never tried maxima, didn't even know it existed :-)`
`11:49.41`	`bomber`	`Xmaxima?`
`11:51.33`	`*** join/#bzflag dheckaman (~dheckaman@64-44-153-2.user.uswo.net)`
`12:20.26`	`KTL_`	`that's the same:-)`
`12:20.50`	`KTL_`	`xmaxima based on maxima and that one based on an older macsyma`
`12:20.51`	`Chestal`	`I think we have mathlab somewhere`
`12:21.01`	`Chestal`	`but IIRC that's not for free`
`12:21.22`	`KTL_`	`mmm, i think about maple in win on vmware on lnx`
`12:21.53`	`Chestal`	`I always liked maple best`
`12:22.41`	`KTL_`	`:-)`
`12:22.52`	`KTL_`	`hungry, bye:-)`
`12:22.56`	`KTL_`	`tnx`
`12:44.48`	`*** join/#bzflag MrApathyCream (~MAC@balt-209-163-100-198.qis-dynamic-dialup.coretel.net)`
`12:54.36`	`*** join/#bzflag mmu (~revol@ALyon-209-1-8-172.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`13:04.53`	`*** join/#bzflag ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)`
`13:04.53`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o ChanServ] by zelazny.freenode.net`
`13:05.21`	`*** join/#bzflag ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)`
`13:05.21`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o ChanServ] by zelazny.freenode.net`
`13:05.21`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+bbb cell!@ !@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net gorb!@] by clarke.freenode.net`
`13:05.21`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+bb sussudio!@ !@68.111.116.228] by clarke.freenode.net`
`13:05.39`	`*** join/#bzflag ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)`
`13:05.39`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o ChanServ] by zelazny.freenode.net`
`13:05.39`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+bbb cell!@ !@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net gorb!@] by clarke.freenode.net`
`13:05.39`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+bb sussudio!@ !@68.111.116.228] by clarke.freenode.net`
`13:07.16`	`CIA`	`03dbrosius * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (playing.cxx): Roger now separates Shockwaves`
`13:16.17`	`*** join/#bzflag larsl_school (~LarsL@mat01.nada.kth.se)`
`13:16.22`	`*** join/#bzflag Lars_L (~LarsL@mat01.nada.kth.se)`
`14:08.10`	`*** join/#bzflag TimRiker (~timr@proxyle01.ext.ti.com)`
`14:08.28`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ`
`14:19.12`	`*** join/#bzflag learner1 (sean@chr160dhcp1675.chrchv01.md.comcast.net)`
`14:27.06`	`*** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@63.147.94.145)`
`14:37.29`	`*** join/#bzflag [dmp] (~dennis@D40A3023.rev.stofanet.dk)`
`14:42.18`	`[dmp]`	`Half og Denmark seems to be without power :-)`
`14:42.36`	`[dmp]`	`Now I know, why i'd moved.`
`14:44.58`	`*** join/#bzflag larsl_school (~LarsL@mat01.nada.kth.se)`
`14:46.21`	`[dmp]`	`larsl_out: Do you know what caused the powerblackout in southern sweden?`
`14:50.50`	`bomber`	`:o))`
`14:51.16`	`*** join/#bzflag KTL (~KTL@scotty.kulnet.kuleuven.ac.be)`
`15:15.09`	`*** join/#bzflag drinian (~drinian@pcp153139pcs.hamntn01.nj.comcast.net)`
`15:23.43`	`*** join/#bzflag TimRiker (~timr@proxyle02.ext.ti.com)`
`15:23.44`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ`
`15:24.39`	`*** join/#bzflag patlabor221 (~JeffM@208.48.199.216)`
`15:24.40`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o patlabor221] by ChanServ`
`15:36.40`	`*** join/#bzflag larsl_school (~LarsL@mat01.nada.kth.se)`
`15:37.01`	`*** join/#bzflag larsl_school (~LarsL@mat01.nada.kth.se)`
`15:37.45`	`*** join/#bzflag larsl_school (~LarsL@mat01.nada.kth.se)`
`15:45.23`	`Nidhoggr`	`pretty funny when a player misspells "stupid"`
`15:47.26`	`patlabor221`	`heh`
`15:52.47`	`*** join/#bzflag TyroneFHornigh (~JBDiGriz@216.188.65.26)`
`16:06.52`	`*** join/#bzflag brlcad (sean@chr160dhcp1675.chrchv01.md.comcast.net)`
`16:19.12`	`patlabor221`	`can anyone get to this URL ? http://bzbb.bakadigital.com/viewtopic.php?t=1055`
`16:24.29`	`larsl_school`	`Works for me.`
`16:24.36`	`patlabor221`	`yay, thanks`
`16:24.39`	`Nidhoggr`	`:)`
`16:24.46`	`*** join/#bzflag Noodleman (~tuckerm@adsl-66-72-30-21.dsl.kntpin.ameritech.net)`
`16:24.57`	`larsl_school`	`Seems to be a little bit faster too.`
`16:25.23`	`Nidhoggr`	`only slower for pat`
`16:25.53`	`patlabor221`	`I'll live`
`16:26.23`	`patlabor221`	`page gen times are still low, so it's just my route to you`
`16:26.47`	`Nidhoggr`	`nod`
`16:27.00`	`patlabor221`	`and I mispelled your name :)`
`16:27.28`	`patlabor221`	`and you can get to the admin panel right?`
`16:28.20`	`Nidhoggr`	`yup`
`16:28.26`	`patlabor221`	`probably should change the email settings to be something on your server`
`16:28.47`	`patlabor221`	`in general adin->config`
`16:29.31`	`bryjen`	`I get a 404 for that. did it change boxes?`
`16:29.40`	`patlabor221`	`yes`
`16:30.00`	`bryjen`	`~nslookup bzbb.bakadigital.com`
`16:30.25`	`Nidhoggr`	`~nslookup bzbb.bzflag.org`
`16:30.31`	`Nidhoggr`	`:)`
`16:30.42`	`bryjen`	`hell hath no fury like an ibot scorned :(`
`16:31.17`	`bryjen`	`err, or something like that`
`16:31.40`	`Nidhoggr`	`heh, btorch. :)`
`16:31.42`	`Nidhoggr`	`oops`
`16:34.27`	`bryjen`	`eh, looks like its the proxy server here. ooo, now i'm getting "403 Forbidden"`
`16:35.13`	`Nidhoggr`	`hrm wierd.`
`16:35.23`	`Nidhoggr`	`you might still be getting the old IP`
`16:35.28`	`Nidhoggr`	`try bzbb.secretplace.us`
`16:35.53`	`bryjen`	`yeah. the proxy box must stil have the old one. bypassing it works. ;)`
`16:35.59`	`Nidhoggr`	`:)`
`16:36.12`	`Nidhoggr`	`I need to put up a customer service page.`
`16:37.12`	`bryjen`	`blah. ibot's ignoring me again. last time i knew why. this time i've no clue...`
`16:39.59`	`patlabor221`	`the old webserver, she be off the line`
`16:40.19`	`fiberchunks`	`what is this about moving bzbb?`
`16:40.26`	`fiberchunks`	`afternoon, all`
`16:40.34`	`Nidhoggr`	`hello, fiber.`
`16:40.37`	`patlabor221`	`I sent you a message yesteday`
`16:40.39`	`patlabor221`	`it moved`
`16:40.45`	`fiberchunks`	`to where?`
`16:40.51`	`patlabor221`	`arizona`
`16:41.02`	`fiberchunks`	`ah, fancy -- I hope it likes it's new home`
`16:41.04`	`patlabor221`	`the land of bandwith and sand`
`16:41.17`	`patlabor221`	`it went over cleanly`
`16:41.25`	`patlabor221`	`didn't take long at all`
`16:41.50`	`fiberchunks`	`ah, nids hosting it now?`
`16:41.54`	`patlabor221`	`yeah`
`16:42.11`	`patlabor221`	`he's much smarter in the ways of webservers then I am`
`16:42.20`	`Nidhoggr`	`who all is going to need shell access for admin?`
`16:42.41`	`*** join/#bzflag skinny_puppy (~jkillenb@roc-66-66-212-46.rochester.rr.com)`
`16:42.42`	`patlabor221`	`and this gives us a functional "test" board now, I'lll just bring up the old one on a new URL`
`16:42.50`	`skinny_puppy`	`how to enable direct rendering?`
`16:42.57`	`patlabor221`	`I say me, you and fiber`
`16:43.05`	`patlabor221`	`pardon there puppy?`
`16:43.23`	`skinny_puppy`	`need direct rendering for good graphics, how to turn on?`
`16:43.29`	`patlabor221`	`huh?`
`16:43.39`	`bryjen`	`3d in linux`
`16:43.47`	`patlabor221`	`do you mean OpenGL?`
`16:43.56`	`Nidhoggr`	`okie.`
`16:43.59`	`patlabor221`	`or hardware?`
`16:43.59`	`skinny_puppy`	`bryjen: yes, glxinfo says no derict rendering`
`16:44.20`	`KTL`	`you need drivers for it`
`16:44.28`	`patlabor221`	`ahh sounds like somone got no hardware drivers`
`16:44.37`	`skinny_puppy`	`KTL: what must do?`
`16:44.40`	`patlabor221`	`what card ya got skinny_puppy`
`16:44.42`	`KTL`	`first of all: the graphics card should be able to do opengl`
`16:45.01`	`bryjen`	`needs a kernel module loaded and entries in the xf86config file`
`16:45.03`	`patlabor221`	`what video card do you have?`
`16:45.03`	`skinny_puppy`	`is ATI 7000`
`16:45.11`	`patlabor221`	`oooo, no hardware for you then`
`16:45.17`	`patlabor221`	`DRI only`
`16:45.35`	`patlabor221`	`ATI only has hardware drivers for the 8000 and up`
`16:45.40`	`*** join/#bzflag Noodleman (~Tucker@adsl-66-72-30-21.dsl.kntpin.ameritech.net)`
`16:45.43`	`patlabor221`	`laptop?`
`16:45.50`	`skinny_puppy`	`so is kernel mod? is laptop`
`16:45.57`	`KTL`	`players without opengl are normally slaughtered:-)`
`16:46.08`	`KTL`	`>:-)`
`16:46.22`	`patlabor221`	`there are no hardware drivers for that card`
`16:46.31`	`patlabor221`	`the DRI project is working on it but I don't think they have it yet`
`16:46.35`	`bryjen`	`DRI project supplies drivers for radeon 7000`
`16:46.37`	`patlabor221`	`ATI doesn't make them`
`16:46.46`	`patlabor221`	`yeah and they don't support hardware yet`
`16:46.52`	`patlabor221`	`Jzaun had the same problem`
`16:47.11`	`bryjen`	`my radeon 7500 works ok`
`16:47.15`	`KTL`	`is ATI a closed source productent too then?`
`16:47.21`	`patlabor221`	`ohh yeah`
`16:47.22`	`KTL`	`producent`
`16:47.45`	`skinny_puppy`	`patlabor221: yes is compaq`
`16:47.52`	`patlabor221`	`you could install windows, ATI makes hardware drivers for windows for that card.`
`16:48.31`	`patlabor221`	`there is a set of drivers for X that do support hardware, but they are like $250`
`16:48.38`	`skinny_puppy`	`have other laptop with ati rage mobility, is support for that?`
`16:48.43`	`patlabor221`	`oooooooooooooooooooo`
`16:48.43`	`patlabor221`	`no`
`16:48.47`	`patlabor221`	`that's even worse`
`16:49.03`	`patlabor221`	`that was on of the good 3d "decellerators"`
`16:49.08`	`dheckaman`	`lol`
`16:49.27`	`patlabor221`	`it's true, software rendering on a P3 500 is faster then a rage`
`16:49.40`	`patlabor221`	`so using the card slows you down if your CPU is faster then that`
`16:50.30`	`patlabor221`	`could go check on the DRI project and see how they are doing, the 7000 mobility was on there list`
`16:51.40`	`skinny_puppy`	`patlabor221: are linking?`
`16:52.16`	`bryjen`	`http://dri.sourceforge.net/`
`16:52.40`	`patlabor221`	`google, where evertyhing comes from :)`
`17:00.33`	`bryjen`	`interesting http://dri.sourceforge.net/doc/dri_driver_features.phtml`
`17:01.23`	`patlabor221`	`ohh looks like they are getting some more support for it`
`17:01.24`	`patlabor221`	`that's nice`
`17:01.51`	`patlabor221`	`it used to be a lot less`
`17:02.02`	`larsl_school`	`patlabor221: I updated bzadmin to work with the UNIX version of PDCurses, it might be easier to get it to work on Win32 now.`
`17:07.52`	`bryjen`	`http://dri.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/ATIRadeon i wonder if there's no hardware TCL on the 7000 (rv100 chip) then`
`17:08.31`	`bryjen`	`at first i though it meant it the driver`
`17:16.28`	`Chestal`	`hmm, just got kicked for out of world while having burrow`
`17:16.31`	`Chestal`	`actualy, it was Otto`
`17:29.00`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`Probably not for traveling too fast.`
`17:45.02`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`Which bugs need to be fixed before we release 1.9.4 and which bugs need to be fixed before we release 1.10.0?`
`17:46.35`	`patlabor221`	`what bugs prevent the bascs from working, and what bugs prevent new features from working, and what bugs have been in there since before 1.9 ?`
`17:47.45`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`I'm looking through the BUGS file. I don't see anything which prevents the basics from working. There are a couple of robots and a thief flag bug.`
`17:48.17`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`There are a number that have been in since before 1.9.`
`17:48.28`	`patlabor221`	`well I would say the robot and thef bugs definatly before 1.10`
`17:48.51`	`patlabor221`	`then lets sqeep out a 1.9.04 now and see how it goes`
`17:49.07`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`There's a voting arbiter bug which should be fixed before 1.10`
`17:49.13`	`patlabor221`	`ok`
`17:49.34`	`patlabor221`	`basicly stuff that breaks new features are things that definatly should be fixed`
`17:49.47`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`I don't think the OS X gamma problem for two monitors should hold us up. ;)`
`17:49.57`	`patlabor221`	`things that have been there for a release would be nice, but people have lived with them`
`17:51.01`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`There's an old bug regarding hit detection on pyramids.`
`17:51.09`	`patlabor221`	`go ahead and bump and tag when you want and just let us know`
`17:51.33`	`patlabor221`	`well that should probably be fixed as it seems to show up more now`
`17:51.37`	`patlabor221`	`with the new stuff`
`17:52.31`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`We need some direction to prioritize these bugs, rather than just having the file with everything dumped into it.`
`17:52.32`	`larsl_school`	`Collision behaviour is different for boxes and pyramids too, if you drive into a box you will slide along the wall but if you drive into a pyramid you're stuck until you back up.`
`17:53.07`	`larsl_school`	`The bug tracker?`
`17:53.25`	`patlabor221`	`yes they are very difrent`
`17:55.19`	`Chestal`	`IMHO all bugs that are at the top of BUGS should be fixed before release`
`17:55.24`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`The bug tracker looks like it is very out of date.`
`17:55.29`	`Chestal`	`if we don't want to, put them onto the tracker`
`17:55.44`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`ches, including the Mac OS 2 display bug?`
`17:56.00`	`Chestal`	`TyroneFHornigh: yes, if noone wants to fix that, put it on the tracker :-)`
`17:56.30`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`There's only one person who can even see that bug that we know of. ;)`
`17:57.57`	`larsl_school`	`I get an error when compiling on Solaris:`
`17:58.06`	`larsl_school`	Permissions.h:55: error: `poll' redeclared as different kind of symbol
`17:59.49`	`larsl_school`	`A 'poll' enum value collides with the system function 'int poll(pollfd*, long unsigned int, int)'.`
`18:06.43`	`patlabor221`	`sounds like a learner thing`
`18:12.54`	`brlcad`	`hrm..`
`18:15.19`	`captain_proton`	`larsl_out: is that with the solaris compiler or g++?`
`18:15.45`	`brlcad`	`it's technically true.. the AccessPerm enum is global for some reason`
`18:15.56`	`brlcad`	`where poll is one of the enum values`
`18:16.49`	`brlcad`	`I'd bet the solaris compiler is loading the system c headers for free or in a different order`
`18:17.15`	`brlcad`	`Easy enough to scope the AccessPerm into PlayerAccessInfo`
`18:41.56`	`*** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-217-133-255-34.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)`
`18:44.46`	`*** join/#bzflag prodan (~prodan@dial-in3.rz.uni-mannheim.de)`
`18:44.58`	`prodan`	`ibot ducati`
`18:45.11`	`[dmp]`	`~d`
`18:45.19`	`brlcad`	`eep`
`18:45.21`	`prodan`	`~d`
`18:45.29`	`[dmp]`	`Its sleepy :)`
`18:45.29`	`brlcad`	`~quol`
`18:45.30`	`prodan`	`(doesnt work)`
`18:45.38`	`Nidhoggr`	`~secretplace`
`18:45.41`	`brlcad`	`~sup G`
`18:45.41`		`nuthin, yous?`
`18:45.46`	`Nidhoggr`	`snort`
`18:45.49`	`Nidhoggr`	`silly bot`
`18:45.52`	`prodan`	`ibot wake up`
`18:45.52`		`wish i knew, prodan`
`18:45.56`	`brlcad`	`well, she's alive`
`18:46.01`	`prodan`	`ibot insult ibot`
`18:46.01`		`go stick ibot's head in a pig, prodan.`
`18:46.02`	`brlcad`	`they're not responding`
`18:46.40`	`prodan`	`ducati went down on me and i dont know if its my route or ducati`
`18:48.21`	`prodan`	`ibot is a bit slow`
`18:48.22`		`parse error: dunno what the heck you're talking about, prodan`
`18:48.46`	`prodan`	`thx ibot`
`18:50.11`	`prodan`	`ibot tr en de larts`
`18:50.11`		`prodan: KCI error, or a problem with the Keyboard-Chair Interface.`
`18:51.45`	`prodan`	`ibot ducati`
`18:53.49`	`*** join/#bzflag anaconda (~ASdf@adsl-212-41-84-4.solnet.ch)`
`18:53.51`	`anaconda`	`hi`
`18:53.59`	`prodan`	`griezi`
`18:54.13`	`anaconda`	`hey prodan, wie geit's?;-)`
`18:54.23`	`prodan`	`ca va`
`18:54.33`	`prodan`	`nerr guet`
`18:54.41`	`prodan`	`s�lber?`
`18:54.42`	`anaconda`	`wiso?`
`18:54.59`	`prodan`	`mir gohts guet`
`18:54.59`	`brlcad`	`~rose`
`18:55.07`	`[dmp]`	`heh`
`18:55.25`	`anaconda`	`oh, mir geits nid auzu schl?cht - es si no immer semschterferie;-)`
`18:55.38`	`prodan`	`hehe fuule sagg`
`18:55.40`	`anaconda`	`was isch los mit ducati?`
`18:55.54`	`prodan`	`i bi aifach uusegschmisse worde`
`18:56.14`	`anaconda`	`prodan: he, du hesch ja die cooli Zyt o mau gha, oder?;-)`
`18:56.26`	`prodan`	`mi traceroute goht numme zum netzwerkknoten vo stuttgart`
`18:57.09`	`anaconda`	`wie isch d'ip vom ducati-server?`
`18:57.43`	`prodan`	`141.99.42.48`
`18:58.15`	`anaconda`	`merci;-)`
`18:58.27`	`anaconda`	`aues io bi mir`
`18:58.49`	`anaconda`	`s?tt eigentlech funktioniere...`
`18:59.37`	`prodan`	`aha merci`
`19:00.29`	`anaconda`	`es geit wider, juhuiiii;-)))`
`19:00.47`	`prodan`	`supi`
`19:00.50`	`*** join/#bzflag Bagheera (~Bagheera@h-68-165-122-98.MCLNVA23.covad.net)`
`19:06.53`	`*** join/#bzflag Noodleman (~tuckerm@adsl-66-72-31-58.dsl.kntpin.ameritech.net)`
`19:08.52`	`prodan`	`(especially the Sep 21 archive)`
`19:10.40`	`bryjen`	`~dict lart`
`19:11.24`	`bryjen`	`grrr`
`19:14.37`	`Bagheera`	`dont tempt ibot, it will get you back.......eventually........while you are sleeping.............with a chainsaw...........`
`19:15.33`	`Bagheera`	`sickem ibot`
`19:15.44`	`bryjen`	`she's taken to fits of ignoreing me recently :(`
`19:16.22`	`Bagheera`	`and this is different from the rest of the world.... ;)`
`19:16.42`	`bryjen`	`:P`
`19:17.20`	`Bagheera`	`~spell antivirual`
`19:17.24`		`possible spellings for antivirual: antiviral antivirals individual antral`
`19:17.34`	`Bagheera`	`good girl`
`19:17.55`	`bryjen`	`~botsnack`
`19:18.19`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`~botsnack`
`19:18.19`		`TyroneFHornigh: aw, gee`
`19:18.31`	`Bagheera`	`lol`
`19:18.46`	`bryjen`	`not even bribery works for me`
`19:18.52`	`Bagheera`	`~karma bryjen`
`19:18.52`		`bryjen has neutral karma`
`19:19.13`	`Bagheera`	`~botsnack`
`19:19.13`		`aw, gee, Bagheera`
`19:19.38`	`Bagheera`	`good girl, now go get me a beer`
`19:20.16`	`larsl`	`~karma larsl`
`19:20.16`		`larsl has neutral karma`
`19:20.25`	`*** join/#bzflag Spiff (~Spiff@12-223-213-142.client.insightbb.com)`
`19:20.36`	`Bagheera`	`~karma spiff`
`19:20.36`		`spiff has neutral karma`
`19:20.44`	`bryjen`	`i'm not sure, but the ~karma thing may just be randomness`
`19:20.52`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`~lame bryjen`
`19:21.04`	`TimRiker`	`~nslookup bzbb.bzflag.org`
`19:21.11`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`~nickometer bryjen`
`19:21.11`		`'bryjen' is 0.000% lame, tyronefhornigh`
`19:21.14`	`Spiff`	`Hey all. :-)`
`19:21.27`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`she doesn't hate you that much bry ;)`
`19:21.49`	`Spiff`	`~nickometer TyroneFHornigh`
`19:21.49`		`'TyroneFHornigh' is 53.000% lame, spiff`
`19:21.52`	`Spiff`	`LoL`
`19:21.53`	`bryjen`	`TyroneFHornigh: were you asking her to hobble me?`
`19:22.08`	`Nidhoggr`	`cool beans, Tim. :)`
`19:22.11`	`Nidhoggr`	`thanks.`
`19:22.14`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`She doesn't like dirty old men very much though`
`19:22.18`	`TimRiker`	`bryjen: ibot karma is broken, and I'm not motivated to fix it cause it does not reflect anything.`
`19:22.23`	`TimRiker`	`~karma TimRiker`
`19:22.23`		`timriker has karma of 1`
`19:22.31`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`and I do have to use a cane ;)`
`19:22.39`	`TimRiker`	`Nidhoggr: np.`
`19:22.49`	`Nidhoggr`	`~nickometer Nidhoggr`
`19:22.49`		`'Nidhoggr' is 0.000% lame, nidhoggr`
`19:22.52`	`Nidhoggr`	`:)`
`19:23.04`	`Spiff`	`~nickometer Spiff`
`19:23.04`		`'Spiff' is 0.000% lame, spiff`
`19:23.09`	`Spiff`	`0:-)`
`19:24.08`	`larsl`	`~nickometer ThisIsALongNickWithAnnoyingCharacters$%&�[]`
`19:24.08`		`'ThisIsALongNickWithAnnoyingCharacters$%&�[]' is 99.9871% lame, larsl`
`19:24.22`	`bryjen`	`nickometer is analysis of your nick, not your personality`
`19:24.40`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`or walking ability :)`
`19:25.55`	`Spiff`	`Wha?! No personality analysis?!?!? That sux0rz. ;-)`
`19:26.09`	`bryjen`	`Frau Bl�cher!`
`19:26.14`	`Spiff`	`Okies. Spiffy's been in a car all day.`
`19:27.32`	`TimRiker`	`~karma TimRiker`
`19:27.32`		`timriker has karma of 23984793847`
`19:27.59`	`TimRiker`	`Spiff: patches welcome.`
`19:28.39`	`larsl`	`~nickometer TimRiker`
`19:28.39`		`'TimRiker' is 0.000% lame, larsl`
`19:29.41`	`Nidhoggr`	`heh`
`19:30.02`	`larsl`	`Not for the guy running the karma server. =)`
`19:30.05`	`captain_proton`	`~karma captain_proton`
`19:30.05`		`captain_proton has neutral karma`
`19:30.11`	`captain_proton`	`hmmk`
`19:30.16`	`bryjen`	`larsl: true ;)`
`19:30.24`	`Bagheera`	`~dict hmmk`
`19:30.36`	`Bagheera`	`~spell hmmk`
`19:30.36`		`possible spellings for hmmk: HM Mk hammy Hank hank honk hunk MM mm HMO HMS Ham Hom h'm ham hem him hum HTML Hummel MMe Mme Huck Hume hack hark hawk heck heme hick hock home homo hook amok hams hemp hems hims hulk hump hums husk hymn hammock hummock MGM Emma Emmi Emmy Omsk YMMV ammo`
`19:30.55`	`Bagheera`	`~dict hummock`
`19:31.27`	`bryjen`	`maybe he's thinking in HTML`
`19:31.30`	`Bagheera`	`learn something new everyday........`
`19:37.36`	`TimRiker`	`but anyone can change their nick, join a channel where ibot hangs out and oldnick++ all day long.`
`19:38.11`	`TimRiker`	`so it's useless until you can track who karma'd who.`
`19:38.57`	`TimRiker`	`same thing could happen in bz, which is why only registered nicks will be able to participate, and why each nick will have to have a unique email address.`
`19:39.18`	`*** join/#bzflag niksie (~nkist@3eea15b7.cable.wanadoo.nl)`
`19:39.31`	`TimRiker`	`course if you own a domain you could be foo234234@example.com etc.`
`19:53.07`	`Nidhoggr`	`~secretplace`
`19:54.40`	`*** part/#bzflag prodan (~prodan@dial-in3.rz.uni-mannheim.de)`
`19:56.52`	`TimRiker`	`~xmission`
`19:57.06`	`TimRiker`	`heh. empty`
`19:57.58`	`TimRiker`	`joing xmission and try the new map out.`
`19:58.03`	`TimRiker`	`er join`
`19:59.01`	`CIA`	`03larsl * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (3 files): The sky should work now for small and large worlds, mountains still need to be rescaled`
`20:01.40`	`*** join/#bzflag nicolas (~nicolas@modemcable083.101-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca)`
`20:01.41`	`nicolas`	`hi`
`20:02.59`	`nicolas`	`can anyone tell me real quick what's the library used by -lX11, ld returns me an error when I try to compile bzflag, I verified and I have xlibs-dev installed. ?`
`20:03.37`	`captain_proton`	`nicolas: perhaps /usr/X11/lib isn't in your library path?`
`20:04.17`	`nicolas`	`I have /usr/X11R6/lib/ in my hierarchy.. not /usr/X11. How can I see if it's in my library path, Makefile ?`
`20:04.39`	`captain_proton`	`is it in /etc/ld.so.conf?`
`20:04.57`	`nicolas`	`yes.`
`20:05.02`	`Tupone`	`error in compiling or in configuring`
`20:05.29`	`Tupone`	`?`
`20:05.44`	`nicolas`	`compiling`
`20:06.16`	`Tupone`	`so configure should have found X11 library. No error or warning messages? Are you linux`
`20:06.47`	`nicolas`	`yes, I run debian.`
`20:07.21`	`Tupone`	`configure should have already searched and found the X11 library. If not it should have give you a warning`
`20:07.27`	`Tupone`	`give a look at config.log`
`20:07.37`	`captain_proton`	`what version are you trying to build?`
`20:07.57`	`nicolas`	`1.7g2`
`20:07.59`	`anaconda`	`ahhhh, the 2nd one which fails. arggggg`
`20:08.03`	`nicolas`	`I think the lastest release.`
`20:08.16`	`captain_proton`	`any reason why you're not installing the debian package?`
`20:08.19`	`*** join/#bzflag patlabor221 (~JeffM@208.48.199.216)`
`20:08.19`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o patlabor221] by ChanServ`
`20:08.37`	`brlcad`	`moin pat`
`20:08.38`	`nicolas`	`it's simply not usable.`
`20:08.59`	`nicolas`	`The only time it worked with my I was jumping twice the height I'm suposed to and I was being banned out of the games.`
`20:09.01`	`captain_proton`	`can you elaborate?`
`20:09.09`	`nicolas`	`it segfaults`
`20:09.16`	`nicolas`	`when i try to join a game`
`20:09.17`	`Chestal`	`the Debian package works just fine`
`20:09.23`	`nicolas`	`not for me.`
`20:09.28`	`Tupone`	`are you stable or testing?`
`20:09.33`	`nicolas`	`stable.`
`20:09.45`	`Tupone`	`testing should have the 1.7 IIRC`
`20:09.46`	`nicolas`	`want me to make a strace of it segfaulting ?`
`20:10.00`	`Chestal`	`hmm, I run unstable and it works perfect`
`20:10.17`	`nicolas`	`how can I install the unstable package using apt ?`
`20:10.20`	`Tupone`	`stable is 1.7e4`
`20:10.40`	`larsl`	`brlcad: pong`
`20:10.46`	`nicolas`	`bzflag_1.7e4, yes.`
`20:10.53`	`Chestal`	`in that case you migh tbe better off buildign your own which should be easy`
`20:10.59`	`Chestal`	`e4 is really, really old`
`20:11.02`	`nicolas`	`that's why I'm here. ;)`
`20:11.18`	`brlcad`	`larsl: I have a patch for the solaris problem if you are interested.. commiting now`
`20:11.22`	`nicolas`	`<PROTECTED>`
`20:11.24`	`Tupone`	`go to debian and download from testing the bzflag, see if it work`
`20:11.27`	`nicolas`	`I have xlibs-dev installed.`
`20:11.37`	`TimRiker`	`captain_proton: sup?`
`20:11.52`	`nicolas`	`yeah I guess I'll try that.. but I'd still prefer to know how to fix that dependency problem...`
`20:11.53`	`captain_proton`	`TimRiker: nevermind`
`20:11.53`	`larsl`	`brlcad: I'm not on a Solaris box anymore, but fixes are always good. =)`
`20:12.19`	`Chestal`	`nicolas: you will also need xlibmesa-gl-dev or whatever it is called in stable`
`20:12.48`	`TimRiker`	`apt-get source from testing and rebuild.`
`20:13.09`	`TimRiker`	`1.10.x will go into all feeds cause it breaks the protocol.`
`20:13.32`	`TimRiker`	`nicolas: what's the dependancy problem?`
`20:13.49`	`captain_proton`	`yay for moving to a sensible versioning scheme`
`20:13.55`	`CIA`	`03brlcad * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (playing.cxx): make message length MessageLen`
`20:13.58`	`TimRiker`	`ah... where is libX11* ?`
`20:14.49`	`TimRiker`	`looks like /usr/X11R6/lib`
`20:15.19`	`nicolas`	`TimRiker: -lX11, passed to g++ (c++)`
`20:15.40`	`TimRiker`	`nicolas: might need to add -L/usr/X11R6/lib to LDADD`
`20:16.27`	`nicolas`	`in my environment ?`
`20:16.55`	`CIA`	`03atupone * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (menus.cxx): shadow and smooth option are now actuated immediately (BUG 808736)`
`20:17.11`	`nicolas`	`<PROTECTED>`
`20:17.37`	`larsl`	`bunnies == sussudio?`
`20:17.53`	`CIA`	`03brlcad * 12bzflag/src/bzfs (3 files): maved the AccessPerm permission enum (that is used by the PlayerAccessInfo) out of the global namespace and into the PlayerAccessInfo namespace; this should unchoke name conflicts on Solaris`
`20:17.54`	`bryjen`	`larsl: yes, he's used that name`
`20:17.57`	`nicolas`	`hmm`
`20:18.02`	`nicolas`	`is xlibmesa3-gl non-free ?`
`20:18.06`	`patlabor221`	`but there have also been impersonators`
`20:18.17`	`larsl`	`brlcad: I thought so, he's calling me a pig in Swedish.`
`20:18.41`	`brlcad`	`heh`
`20:19.10`	`brlcad`	`the wonders of tab completion :)`
`20:19.16`	`bryjen`	`<PROTECTED>`
`20:19.41`	`bryjen`	`when alpha sorted ;)`
`20:19.41`	`Chestal`	`why are we back to alwaays relink btw.?`
`20:20.14`	`brlcad`	`Tim's fault :) /me chuckles`
`20:20.35`	`Chestal`	`but most of the time Tim has his reasons (or thinks he has :-)`
`20:20.59`	`nicolas`	`err..`
`20:21.04`	`brlcad`	`He didn't like N copies of the buildDate.cxx file :)`
`20:21.11`	`brlcad`	`where N = 4;`
`20:21.18`	`Chestal`	`yes, but that was yesterday`
`20:21.25`	`brlcad`	`Oh, it's differen?`
`20:22.07`	`Tupone`	`now we only get one, and is compiled everytime. It is so fast that is scroll away`
`20:22.33`	`Chestal`	`Tupone: you did some changes after Tim's changes yesterday?`
`20:22.37`	`Chestal`	`then Tim did more changes`
`20:22.39`	`Chestal`	`I am confused`
`20:23.06`	`Tupone`	`I did a change before Tim. I was using LIBS`
`20:23.21`	`Tupone`	`LIBS is not used on the dependency`
`20:23.43`	`Tupone`	`Tim used LD_ADD ad that is used in the dependency`
`20:24.31`	`Chestal`	`hmm, whatever. I'd still prefer a version which only rebuild/relinks when necessary`
`20:25.12`	`Tupone`	`mine used just to compile the buildDate.cxx once per make, and thats all`
`20:25.43`	`Tupone`	`Tim's compile the buildDate.cxx, and build all the exe`
`20:27.09`	`Tupone`	`I solved your bzflag$(EXEEXT) problem by not changing the rule of building, and including buildDate.o in the library linked by exe`
`20:27.12`	`TimRiker`	`~lart tab completion of the wrong nick`
`20:27.29`	`Bagheera`	`~xmission`
`20:28.05`	`Tupone`	`please .. can I revert to mine ?????`
`20:29.02`	`TimRiker`	`hmm. build the .o but not use it anywhere unless needed. hmm... others have thoughts on this?`
`20:29.24`	`Chestal`	`after a make; no changes, another make should not do anythign IMHO`
`20:29.46`	`Chestal`	`I still think we shoudl try to use CVS date, not build date, but that has problems of its own`
`20:29.59`	`Chestal`	`this is all a big confusion and probaby still not very well thought through`
`20:31.55`	`brlcad`	`We can stick to just one buildDate.cxx file, that's not a bad idea`
`20:33.24`	`Chestal`	`I'm still not convinced that a _build_ date is useful at all. But if we want to stick with it I still don't liek unneccasary relinkink`
`20:34.19`	`brlcad`	`I can think of two quick'n easy solutions: 1) rebuild the buildDate.cxx upon link 4 times of the one file (like before) or 2) have two make targets for build (make date and make all, for example) where make date is called during link and make all invalidates/deletes it`
`20:34.31`	`*** join/#bzflag niksie (~nkist@3eea15b7.cable.wanadoo.nl)`
`20:35.29`	`Chestal`	`buildDate.cxx is used by all platforms?`
`20:35.38`	`TimRiker`	`Chestal: should be, yes.`
`20:35.42`	`brlcad`	`I'd vie for #1 just because it is so simple, and the time to build that trivial file is inconsequential compared to the time required to link`
`20:35.44`	`TimRiker`	`might not be yet.`
`20:35.47`	`Tupone`	`my solution was to build without any check buildDate.o and forget. It will be used on all link`
`20:36.24`	`Chestal`	`Tupone: so, bzflag would not depend on buildDate.o?`
`20:36.31`	`Tupone`	`Yeah!`
`20:36.38`	`Chestal`	`hmm`
`20:36.45`	`Tupone`	`Just use it as X11 libs`
`20:37.00`	`Tupone`	`like every library.`
`20:37.11`	`Tupone`	`not bzflag library!`
`20:37.13`	`Chestal`	`so, we'd only get a new date when we start make from the top-level directory then, not when we just start it from src/bzflag?`
`20:37.28`	`Tupone`	`this too!`
`20:37.59`	`Tupone`	`if you start from src date was rebuild before any other package`
`20:38.46`	`brlcad`	bzadmin.cxx:173: `error' undeclared (first use this function)
`20:39.24`	`larsl`	`That's odd - it's declared on the row above.`
`20:39.31`	`bryjen`	`and`
`20:39.32`	`bryjen`	bzadmin.cxx: In function `bool getServerString(ServerLink&, std::string&,
`20:39.34`	`bryjen`	`<PROTECTED>`
`20:39.35`	`bryjen`	`bzadmin.cxx:223: exception handling disabled, use -fexceptions to enable`
`20:39.49`	`larsl`	`Bleh.`
`20:40.03`	`larsl`	`Are exceptions turned off by default in some versions of GCC?`
`20:40.33`	`bryjen`	`donno. there's -fno-exceptions on the echoed gcc command`
`20:41.06`	`larsl`	`Not for me.`
`20:42.37`	`bryjen`	`g++ --version = g++ (GCC) 3.2.2`
`20:43.00`	`larsl`	`Here too.`
`20:44.37`	`Chestal`	`maybe one with --enable-debug the other without?`
`20:45.08`	`bryjen`	`mine is without`
`20:45.11`	`larsl`	`I use --enable-debug`
`20:45.18`	`bryjen`	`ah-hah`
`20:45.23`	`Chestal`	`here, with debug, and no -fno-exceptions`
`20:45.24`	`larsl`	`How annoying.`
`20:45.29`	`Chestal`	`doesn#t seem quite right though`
`20:45.39`	`Chestal`	`should both be the same IMHO`
`20:45.44`	`larsl`	`Yes.`
`20:46.32`	`larsl`	`Will -fno-exceptions produce faster code even if there are no exceptions?`
`20:46.44`	`bryjen`	`hmm before it was on both CFLAGS and CXXFLAG in the Makefile. re configure --enable-debug and now its just on CFLAGS`
`20:47.11`	`larsl`	`It doesn't really make any sense in CFLAGS.`
`20:47.13`	`Tupone`	`CXXFLAGS="$CXXFLAGS";; ???`
`20:47.33`	`larsl`	`Isn't that only for C code (which typically doesn't have exceptions) ?`
`20:48.23`	`Chestal`	`DEVINFO saysuse of exceptions is encouraged. I think that's wrong, though?`
`20:48.49`	`larsl`	`I read that before I used it.`
`20:49.05`	`bryjen`	`yay for docs! ugh that they're incorrect!`
`20:49.23`	`larsl`	`I think that was changed a couple of months ago, earlier templates, exceptions etc were not allowed, now they are.`
`20:50.14`	`Chestal`	`well, I remember that exceptions had been used in StateDatabase, then changed to signal it with NaN. IIRC on Tim's request`
`20:50.36`	`larsl`	`Yuck.`
`20:50.37`	`bryjen`	`invoke( TimRiker );`
`20:50.58`	`larsl`	`I'm not actually using exceptions, I'm throwing strings. =)`
`20:51.49`	`larsl`	`throw + catch makes error handling much easier.`
`20:52.53`	`Chestal`	`TimRiker: do we want to use exceptions or not?`
`20:53.22`	`TimRiker`	`no exceptions.`
`20:53.28`	`bryjen`	`har`
`20:53.35`	`Chestal`	`then we should use -fno-exceptions always and change DEVINFO`
`20:53.49`	`TimRiker`	`sounds like a good thing.`
`20:54.06`	`Chestal`	`right now, debug and release builds differ weith repect to -fno-e`
`20:54.21`	`Chestal`	`poor larsl has been using exceptions for bzadmin though`
`20:54.23`	`Tupone`	`there was a -fno-exception on configure.in it was changed by capt on 2003/06/22: "add StateDatabase to build"`
`20:55.34`	`Chestal`	`how has configure.in been created?`
`20:56.12`	`Tupone`	`mine hand, copying from the old Make`
`20:56.31`	`Chestal`	`hmm, it does not really look homan created`
`20:57.05`	`Tupone`	`Are you saying I'm a bot?`
`20:58.03`	`Chestal`	`hmm, there is a common part int he beginning for several platforms, sets CFLAG and CXXFLAGS among others`
`20:58.07`	`Spiff`	`Yes, Tupone. You're a bot. :P LoL`
`20:58.12`	`Chestal`	`below depending on debug or not, these are extended`
`20:58.34`	`Chestal`	`the first section usually sets some CFLAGS, but no CXXFLAGS, looks a bit incoherent to me`
`20:59.17`	`Tupone`	`You should look at he first version. Does not work but its pretty :-)`
`21:02.36`	`Tupone`	`CFLAGS, CXXFLAGS, and all the other used to stay on different Makefile, with different value, for debuggin and so.`
`21:02.38`	`Bagheera`	`~xmission`
`21:03.15`	`Tupone`	`I had make my best (it is not too much but is my problem) to not make an explosive case`
`21:03.36`	`*** part/#bzflag drinian (~drinian@pcp153139pcs.hamntn01.nj.comcast.net)`
`21:04.05`	`Chestal`	`well, I guess we shouuld somehow at least make sure that -fno-exception is used for both debug and release builds then`
`21:06.21`	`*** join/#bzflag triclops (~triclops@203-219-160-62-nsw.tpgi.com.au)`
`21:07.31`	`Tupone`	`what about buildDate issue? still thinking at?`
`21:08.32`	`Chestal`	`I guess I stopped thinkign for today .-)`
`21:09.10`	`TimRiker`	`Tupone: I think I agree with your method, just not the implementation.`
`21:09.34`	`Tupone`	`what you don't like ?`
`21:09.41`	`TimRiker`	`I'm testing adding bzflag_LDFLAGS with the .o now. less ugly? depends on how you look at it.`
`21:09.48`	`Tupone`	`no`
`21:09.53`	`TimRiker`	`no?`
`21:10.01`	`Tupone`	`you overwrite a change in LIBS`
`21:10.05`	`Tupone`	`in configure.in`
`21:10.39`	`CIA`	`03timriker * 12bzflag/ (DEVINFO): no exceptions`
`21:10.40`	`TimRiker`	`rather not do it globally.`
`21:10.58`	`Chestal`	`why not rebuild builddate on linking of bzfalg/bzfs/...?`
`21:11.20`	`Tupone`	`Just too much problem of compatibility`
`21:11.28`	`Chestal`	`for a fresh budl it would buld it 4 times, but that#s still amuch faster than relinking the whoel application`
`21:11.52`	`*** join/#bzflag skinny_puppy (~jkillenb@roc-66-66-212-46.rochester.rr.com)`
`21:11.55`	`Chestal`	`compat? why that?`
`21:12.04`	`Tupone`	`that $(EXEEXT) !`
`21:12.05`	`TimRiker`	`Tupone: and overriding LIBS is not?`
`21:12.47`	`Chestal`	`I could imagine a make call in bzflag: targte. No idea how well that integrates with the automake stuff though`
`21:13.16`	`Tupone`	`compatibility you says? I don't think. LIBS normally get system library, and you can use that in all automake version`
`21:14.28`	`Tupone`	`however, I was thinking at bzflag_LDFLAGS before. My fear was only compatibility. I have already lost my face on autoconf. So preferring avoiding temptation`
`21:15.28`	`CIA`	`03larsl * 12bzflag/src/bzadmin (bzadmin.cxx): Use ugly error handling`
`21:15.36`	`Tupone`	`But it could work, actually. It worked on mine`
`21:15.55`	`Chestal`	`larsl: you could've used setjmp/longjmp instead ;-)`
`21:17.36`	`TimRiker`	`what about using: LIBS+=../date/buildDate.o in each Makefile.am ?`
`21:18.49`	`Tupone`	`dont think it works. Those statement are processed by automake IIRC. so they are not useful to make dynamic vars`
`21:18.53`	`TimRiker`	`hmm. that nukes the -lm`
`21:20.11`	`Tupone`	`when I made that bzflag_LDFLAGS I got a pletora of warning from previous version of automake, that I could not understand !?`
`21:21.49`	`skinny_puppy`	`plethora?`
`21:22.08`	`TimRiker`	`Tupone: post here? or in #flood?`
`21:22.38`	`Tupone`	`It was yesterday. I have to redo things`
`21:23.30`	`TimRiker`	`diff -u -r1.18 Makefile.am`
`21:23.30`	`TimRiker`	`--- src/bzfs/Makefile.am 22 Sep 2003 23:59:43 -0000 1.18`
`21:23.30`	`TimRiker`	`+++ src/bzfs/Makefile.am 23 Sep 2003 21:23:05 -0000`
`21:23.30`	`TimRiker`	`@@ -24,7 +24,7 @@`
`21:23.30`	`TimRiker`	`<PROTECTED>`
`21:23.31`	`TimRiker`	`<PROTECTED>`
`21:23.33`	`TimRiker`	`- ../date/buildDate.o \`
`21:23.35`	`TimRiker`	`<PROTECTED>`
`21:23.37`	`TimRiker`	`<PROTECTED>`
`21:23.39`	`TimRiker`	`+bzfs_LIBS = ../date/buildDate.o`
`21:23.57`	`TimRiker`	`well, that nuked the empty lines, but you get the picture.`
`21:24.23`	`TimRiker`	`oops.. that's the LIBS version, not the LDFLAGS version.`
`21:24.57`	`Tupone`	`I'll redo`
`21:26.20`	`brlcad`	`No exceptions?!? sigh`
`21:26.34`	`TimRiker`	`[timr@cn014a0868018l1 bzflag]$ time make > /dev/null`
`21:26.34`	`TimRiker`	`real 0m1.050s`
`21:26.34`	`TimRiker`	`user 0m0.850s`
`21:26.34`	`TimRiker`	`sys 0m0.080s`
`21:26.52`	`brlcad`	`I leave for 15 minutes and all heck breaks loose`
`21:26.59`	`Tupone`	`automake-1.5: src/platform/Makefile.am: warning: automake does not support libPlatform_a_SOURCES being defined conditionally`
`21:27.20`	`TimRiker`	`Tupone: that's a different issue...`
`21:28.09`	`Tupone`	`could be that is not related! It just another automake version. So yesterday I dropped that for LIBS`
`21:30.17`	`TimRiker`	`I don't know why you get that... I'm on 1.4 and it does not complain.`
`21:30.47`	`Tupone`	`I thought: I cannot try easily other automake version, even sf didn't worked. So I go for sure!`
`21:31.19`	`larsl`	`TimRiker: Newer versions are stricter with how and where you define variables.`
`21:31.51`	`Tupone`	`could be noone use 1.5!`
`21:31.54`	`CIA`	`03timriker * 12bzflag/src (4 files in 4 dirs): hack automake to avoid gratuitous linking`
`21:31.55`	`TimRiker`	`k. try that version folks...`
`21:32.30`	`TimRiker`	`larsl: k. we'll have to fix that when we get to it.`
`21:33.38`	`Tupone`	`TimRiker: thanx`
`21:33.46`	`patlabor221`	`happy, autumnal Equinox everyone!`
`21:34.46`	`TimRiker`	`~dict plethora`
`21:35.02`	`TimRiker`	`skinny_puppy: not sure if that's what you were asking.`
`21:35.36`	`Tupone`	`but that was what I mean!`
`21:35.49`	`skinny_puppy`	`TimRiker: who is ibot? he smart`
`21:36.18`	`TimRiker`	`~ibot?`
`21:36.19`		`[ibot] a blootbot now, no longer an infobot. run by BZFlag (TimRiker) on his server. see blootbot also http://blootbot.sourceforge.net/ it uses SQLite but can use MySQL or other SQL for storage.`
`21:36.48`	`patlabor221`	`and she's a she`
`21:37.23`	`patlabor221`	`~who is your daddy?`
`21:37.24`		`YOU are, Mr. Sexy Pants`
`21:37.31`	`skinny_puppy`	`she is not person?`
`21:37.46`	`patlabor221`	`what is your definition of "person"?`
`21:38.00`	`patlabor221`	`she may be able to pass a turring test`
`21:38.09`	`bryjen`	`phear the pantz!`
`21:38.17`	`skinny_puppy`	`she is then code :) neat!`
`21:38.28`	`patlabor221`	`techinacly so you are you, but yes`
`21:39.31`	`skinny_puppy`	`ibot: you are cool`
`21:39.31`		`skinny_puppy: I think you lost me on that one`
`21:39.43`	`brlcad`	`ibot: botsmack`
`21:39.44`		`sure, wanna snort some with me?`
`21:39.53`	`brlcad`	`have to keep that girl fed :)`
`21:40.05`	`bryjen`	`ibot: hello?`
`21:40.06`	`patlabor221`	`~botsnack`
`21:40.06`		`patlabor221: thanks`
`21:40.17`	`patlabor221`	`too much smack= not so good`
`21:40.57`	`bryjen`	`i'm still shunned`
`21:41.09`	`larsl`	`Is it bad to call BackgroundRenderer::doInitDisplayLists() more than once?`
`21:41.12`	`brlcad`	`I regulate her addiction to once a day -- keeps her close by`
`21:41.48`	`patlabor221`	`depends, if it checks to see if the lists are made, no, if not then all it would do would be init some more lists`
`21:41.53`	`patlabor221`	`and waste some card mem`
`21:42.10`	`larsl`	`OK.`
`21:45.35`	`TimRiker`	`bryjen: bryjen!~bryjen@63.147.94.*: 1079455863 1063903863 bryjen abuse of forget`
`21:45.54`	`bryjen`	`ah`
`21:47.00`	`bryjen`	`i went about removing learners "whaleslap foo" explicit entries for some users after he added it with a param`
`21:47.04`	`TimRiker`	`bryjen: deleted.`
`21:47.27`	`TimRiker`	`ah`
`21:47.33`	`*** join/#bzflag Noodleman (~Tucker@adsl-66-72-31-42.dsl.kntpin.ameritech.net)`
`21:47.35`	`bryjen`	`although I don't think she'd let me remove "whaleslap bryjen" :(`
`21:47.54`	`bryjen`	`~listkeys whaleslap`
`21:48.12`	`patlabor221`	`that is a lot of slaping`
`21:48.38`	`bryjen`	`hehe. didn't get "whaleslap learner" either. meebee that was on purpose tho...`
`21:48.44`	`larsl`	`~forget whaleslap bryjen`
`21:48.53`	`larsl`	`Too late.`
`21:48.54`	`Bagheera`	`seems like the new map is holding up so far`
`21:49.08`	`Bagheera`	`lots of tank rubble all over the place`
`21:49.20`	`Bagheera`	`see how it handles with time`
`21:51.14`	`TimRiker`	`the #DEL# ones are deleted. they go away after some time.`
`21:51.31`	`TimRiker`	`Bagheera: cool. no stuck flags?`
`21:51.57`	`TimRiker`	`~factinfo whaleslap bryjen`
`21:51.57`		`whaleslap bryjen -- last modified 3d 3h 35m 51s ago by bryjen!bryjen@ky-owensboro1a-242.owboky.adelphia.net.`
`21:52.10`	`TimRiker`	`~forget whaleslap bryjen`
`21:52.10`		`i forgot whaleslap bryjen, TimRiker`
`21:52.20`	`Bagheera`	`nothing yet, I will play late tonight and see whats going on`
`21:54.32`	`bryjen`	`~factinfo whaleslap learner`
`21:54.32`		`bryjen: there's no such factoid as whaleslap learner`
`21:54.41`	`bryjen`	`~listkeys whaleslap`
`22:00.32`	`bryjen`	`yay! the proxy seems to have acquired bzbb's new ip addy`
`22:06.10`	`CIA`	`03larsl * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (3 files): Rescale sky and mountains for small or large worlds, seems to work but I'm no GL guru`
`22:06.28`	`CIA`	`03larsl * 12bzflag/ (BUGS): Removed bug`
`22:13.54`	`Nidhoggr`	`work conf call. I am about to volunteer for a whole lot of work against my better judgement. :/`
`22:14.13`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`Don't do it. ;)`
`22:14.34`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`Hire a contractor instead....:D`
`22:14.41`	`Nidhoggr`	`it's one of those things where I have an opportunity to convert a large section of our operations to linux, instead of windows.`
`22:15.05`	`Nidhoggr`	`mainly, our mailserver.`
`22:15.07`	`Nidhoggr`	`imail sucks.`
`22:17.58`	`Noodleman`	`take the plunge, learn qmail`
`22:18.05`	`Noodleman`	`you'll like yourself alot`
`22:18.06`	`Noodleman`	`:-)`
`22:18.19`	`Nidhoggr`	`I'm using qmail on my personal servers.`
`22:18.24`	`Nidhoggr`	`well, one of them.`
`22:18.31`	`Noodleman`	`cool, you've got clue :-)`
`22:18.34`	`Nidhoggr`	`that's what I'm about to volunteer to do.`
`22:18.46`	`Nidhoggr`	`switch us to qmail, qmailadmin and vpopmail.`
`22:18.54`	`Noodleman`	`great`
`22:19.08`	`Nidhoggr`	`and then I gotta choose an imap server and a web interface.`
`22:19.31`	`Noodleman`	`i use courier-imap and squirrelmail`
`22:19.38`	`Noodleman`	`i don't really know anything else`
`22:19.39`	`Nidhoggr`	`nod.`
`22:19.45`	`Nidhoggr`	`I was thinking about horde.`
`22:20.03`	`Noodleman`	`horde's kinda overkill for just webmail`
`22:20.13`	`Noodleman`	`it's more of an online groupware`
`22:20.17`	`scanline`	`squirrelmail is cute and simple`
`22:20.42`	`Nidhoggr`	`we could use a groupware thing.`
`22:20.48`	`Nidhoggr`	`company-wise`
`22:20.52`	`scanline`	`though I don't trust imap security-wise so I only run the imap server on loopback`
`22:24.13`	`patlabor221`	`that was a very very long line of "N"s`
`22:24.41`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`Broken up by the scanline.`
`22:25.35`	`Nidhoggr`	`we have too many people using our current imap solution or i'd ditch it.`
`22:25.53`	`Nidhoggr`	`well, I done volunteered, and it's approved. shudder`
`22:26.00`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`imap seems like overkill for many applications, but some people seem to like it.`
`22:26.03`	`[dmp]`	`What is BZFlagXL, except its a modified BZflag. What does it 'do' ?`
`22:26.29`	`scanline`	`it's bzflag, right`
`22:26.30`	`scanline`	`but it's XL`
`22:26.35`	`scanline`	`so it's extra large`
`22:26.38`	`scanline`	`or excel compatible`
`22:26.39`	`scanline`	`or something`
`22:27.38`	`[dmp]`	`So thats why he think its optimized :-)`
`22:29.58`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`If you look at the web page the only change seems to be a camera mode.`
`22:32.31`	`larsl`	`Red flag is stuck inside red base on xmission, needs to be reset.`
`22:32.48`	`larsl`	`I asked them to rejoin, but they won't.`
`22:36.38`	`[dmp]`	`patlabor221: BZBB complains about not beeing able to connect to smtp`
`22:37.01`	`Spiff`	`I'm not sure that BZFlag XL is really a "cheat."`
`22:37.16`	`Spiff`	`It's just got some lousy external views. They're really stiff.. and make you play more poorly.`
`22:37.25`	`Spiff`	`I tested it out... and I couldn't play with it at all.`
`22:37.43`	`patlabor221`	`yes I know DMP, Nidhoggr needs to set up his mailserver`
`22:37.46`	`patlabor221`	`spiff it's not`
`22:38.23`	`Nidhoggr`	`hrm. it's setup to go to you. I can probably set it up to use localhost`
`22:38.37`	`patlabor221`	`mine won't acept it now that it's not local here`
`22:38.59`	`skinny_puppy`	`it takes long to build bzflag?`
`22:39.05`	`Nidhoggr`	`can you test it now?`
`22:39.18`	`TimRiker`	`RoadRunnr [S&D]: TIM STOP THAT YOU IDIOT!`
`22:39.30`	`TimRiker`	`nice. good for a ban I'm thinking.`
`22:39.46`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`What were you doing that set him off?`
`22:40.01`	`TimRiker`	`I reset the flags to get the red flag unstuck`
`22:40.09`	`TimRiker`	`said I was going to first.`
`22:40.28`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`Sounds like you got him unstuck as well.`
`22:40.30`	`patlabor221`	`still errors Nidhoggr, just try sending a PM to somone, and you can see it`
`22:40.41`	`TimRiker`	`to which he replied: RoadRunnr [S&D]: WHAT THE FUK TIM!!!!`
`22:40.47`	`patlabor221`	`Could not connect to smtp host : 0 :`
`22:41.08`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`Sounds like kick time at that point. He should have figured that out.`
`22:41.46`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`Did he happen to be playing red?`
`22:46.07`	`larsl`	`TyroneFHornigh: He was playing blue I think, but he had SW.`
`22:46.17`	`larsl`	`Not that SW is something to get upset about. =)`
`22:46.48`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`So he's one of the got to kill everyone types, rather than the need an unfair advantage type.`
`22:47.38`	`skinny_puppy`	`is 1.7g2 the one to build?`
`22:48.08`	`patlabor221`	`TyroneFHornigh shall find this funny, http://www.pvponline.com`
`22:48.40`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`ROTFLMAO :D`
`22:49.30`	`KTL`	`skinny_puppy: the code is precompiled for a lot of distributions, so chances are big you don't have to compile`
`22:50.07`	`KTL`	`and by compiling and installing from source you risk to corrupt your packaging system if your distro has one`
`22:50.20`	`KTL`	`so it's better to find a package`
`22:50.22`	`skinny_puppy`	`KTL: i have 586`
`22:50.42`	`KTL`	`that's the architecture, not the distribution`
`22:50.52`	`KTL`	`do uname -a (or -A don't remember)`
`22:50.59`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`uname -a`
`22:51.04`	`skinny_puppy`	`i know so i dont want to use a 686 or 386 compile`
`22:51.54`	`larsl`	`What distribution do you have? There is a SRPM on the SF page.`
`22:52.01`	`KTL`	`(if it doesn't crashes... why not:-), if it does the package manager can remove it easely)`
`22:52.36`	`KTL`	`~ispell easely`
`22:52.37`		`possible spellings for easely: easel easily easels basely easterly Early early ASL Ashely ESL Beasley ease easy weaselly easel's eagerly wisely Elsey measly teasel weasel Edsel easer Ashly Basel eased eases aisle`
`22:53.26`	`Nidhoggr`	`smtp is fixed on bzbb.`
`22:55.14`	`KTL`	`pas midnight again, must sleap, must improbe BAM-bot tomorrow`
`22:55.19`	`KTL`	`sleep`
`22:55.24`	`KTL`	`past`
`22:55.46`	`KTL`	`bye`
`22:55.47`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`Your eyelids are getting heavy =)`
`22:56.02`	`patlabor221`	`These aren't the droids your looking for.`
`22:56.20`	`KTL`	`(bang head against table grroooink)`
`22:59.04`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`We have plenty of old bugs if you would like ;)`
`22:59.10`	`Nidhoggr`	`:)`
`22:59.38`	`Nidhoggr`	`it's always fun moving things from one machine to another. you never know what is broken.`
`23:00.49`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`The SMTP issue is simply a breakdown in the way the Internet used to work to the realities of today. We can't accept SMTP relay mail from just anyone anymore.l :(`
`23:02.09`	`Nidhoggr`	`my favorite were all the ISPs trying to do store and forward smtp`
`23:02.36`	`*** join/#bzflag Megachirops (~425d2c70@p509119E4.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`23:03.06`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`Especially the wonderful routing with sending uucp email. :/`
`23:04.01`	`Nidhoggr`	`hey, it improved a lot before it died.`
`23:04.26`	`Nidhoggr`	`I had a mailing list that sent about 15K emails a day via UUCP`
`23:04.45`	`Nidhoggr`	`back before I could afford a dedicated ppp connection.`
`23:04.48`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`I helped set up one of the first nodes. It wasn't a problem when everyone connected through ucbvax`
`23:05.48`	`Nidhoggr`	`I was using uucp in '92 for a UUCP/FIDO gateway... that was a pain.`
`23:06.23`	`Nidhoggr`	`I didn't register my first domain until 93, though.`
`23:07.38`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`I had stopped working with uucp by '92. I didn't register my domain until about '95.`
`23:07.53`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`I had registered a few other domains earlier than that.`
`23:08.33`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`Those early email addresses are still the source of most spam I receive.`
`23:09.07`	`Nidhoggr`	`did you get a nice low NIC handle?`
`23:09.21`	`learner1`	`just because there was a whaleslap entry doesn't mean it would actually slap you :)`
`23:09.24`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`not really, 192`
`23:09.34`	`Nidhoggr`	<--- CM1`
`23:09.37`	`Nidhoggr`	`CM21 that is`
`23:10.04`	`learner1`	`some of those had "custom" responses :)`
`23:10.55`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`I didn't see any of the "custom" responses. I'm still trying to figure out how to get ibot to give a complete list of commands and factoids.`
`23:12.24`	`TimRiker`	`help helps, but is incomplete.`
`23:12.28`	`TimRiker`	`patches welcome.`
`23:12.29`	`learner1`	`ibot, what is whaleslap learner`
`23:12.30`		`No way! He's my buddy.`
`23:12.41`	`learner1`	`=)`
`23:12.42`	`TimRiker`	`~literal whaleslap learner`
`23:12.43`		`ibot slaps learner upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh`
`23:12.57`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`very, but it is possible to get a few unusual commands.`
`23:13.07`	`learner1`	`once the whaleslap $who was in place, it takes precedence`
`23:14.36`	`TimRiker`	`yes. the cmd: versions don't edit very well.`
`23:15.56`	`learner1`	`~forget whaleslap learner`
`23:15.56`		`i forgot whaleslap learner, learner1`
`23:15.56`	`TimRiker`	`~factinfo whaleslap learner`
`23:15.56`		`there's no such factoid as whaleslap learner, TimRiker`
`23:15.56`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`Even so, the command you sent, replied without giving the actual command it uses.`
`23:15.56`	`TimRiker`	`~1+1`
`23:15.57`		`somebody said 1+1 was 3 for large values of 1`
`23:15.57`	`learner`	`~sup G?`
`23:15.57`		`nuthin, yous?`
`23:15.59`	`learner`	`she's dead :(`
`23:15.59`	`learner`	`time for some mouth to mouth`
`23:16.00`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`she's dead, Tim. (said in the monotone bones tones)`
`23:16.00`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`I would be careful with the mouth to mouth, she bites. ;)`
`23:16.12`	`learner`	`wee`
`23:16.18`	`learner`	`~botsnack`
`23:16.18`		`learner: :)`
`23:16.26`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`an ibot flood ;)`
`23:16.59`	`TimRiker`	`yes. the cmd: versions don't edit very well.`
`23:17.06`	`TimRiker`	`~1+1`
`23:17.07`		`somebody said 1+1 was 3 for large values of 1`
`23:17.27`	`TimRiker`	`hmm. that was the last msgs before the lag last time. might be just net stuff.`
`23:25.19`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`I see ibot made it into the stats page today. She is a noisy thing especially with the URL's, and she writes the longest lines now. ;)`
`23:26.20`	`*** part/#bzflag skinny_puppy (~jkillenb@roc-66-66-212-46.rochester.rr.com)`
`23:37.43`	`*** join/#bzflag chinook (~Moazel@243.212.8.67.cfl.rr.com)`
`23:42.52`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`What now?`
`23:43.45`	`patlabor221`	`just the stuff on SF`
`23:44.04`	`patlabor221`	`I personaly can't see how binary verification can work at all`
`23:44.55`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`I didn't read the thread, is this some method of calculating that the binary came from a trusted source?`
`23:45.18`	`patlabor221`	`seems the latest sugestion is send part of the binary`
`23:45.19`	`patlabor221`	`or something`
`23:45.28`	`patlabor221`	`a "core"`
`23:45.41`	`Megachirops`	`how would that work?`
`23:45.49`	`patlabor221`	`the origonal idea was to have the client get it's "game core" from the server`
`23:46.26`	`patlabor221`	`but 1) I would not trust a server to send me execuable code. 2) to make it cross plat your talking script. 3) what is to prevent the cleint from even using it`
`23:46.43`	`patlabor221`	`now they sugest the server requesting a portion of the client code`
`23:46.48`	`patlabor221`	`and verifying that`
`23:46.52`	`patlabor221`	`and that is more secure`
`23:47.01`	`patlabor221`	`but I think it could be faked`
`23:47.10`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`There's no way to guarantee the client will use it. and the client can send anything it wants whether it's in the binary or in a file somewhere else.`
`23:47.14`	`patlabor221`	`and the logistics of it are questionalbe`
`23:47.27`	`patlabor221`	`it's basicly a large "magic number"`
`23:47.35`	`patlabor221`	`yes`
`23:47.51`	`patlabor221`	`now I can see some merit in what frrank was trying`
`23:47.57`	`patlabor221`	`but not as a sole security method`
`23:48.16`	`patlabor221`	`make a closed source authentication module that the server can query`
`23:48.35`	`patlabor221`	`but at some point you need to asume that that will be hacked`
`23:49.05`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`Anyone could rewrite that module to return whatever they want. The API is still out in the open source.`
`23:49.10`	`patlabor221`	`then all you can do is verify all the data coming from the client is within tolerance`
`23:49.15`	`patlabor221`	`yes`
`23:49.29`	`patlabor221`	`well the idea is, your closed source module does some calc`
`23:49.36`	`patlabor221`	`and sends that to the server`
`23:49.42`	`patlabor221`	`and verifys that it's right`
`23:49.54`	`patlabor221`	`so they would have to figure out what calc you are doing`
`23:50.03`	`patlabor221`	`it's posible but it will take time and effort`
`23:50.29`	`fiberchunks`	`allo pat`
`23:50.31`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`There are calculations that can be used that will be hard to break, but it's only a game.`
`23:50.45`	`patlabor221`	`what you distribute in source format does not have the same calc`
`23:51.07`	`patlabor221`	`yeah and all you have to do is step thru an assembly level debuger and see what it's doing`
`23:51.25`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`plus which, I'm not sure we can trust the developers not to release it. That patlabor221 is a might shady if you ask me ;)`
`23:51.27`	`patlabor221`	`so again it all comes back to verifying the clients input`
`23:51.46`	`patlabor221`	`true, it requires you to have trusted binary builders`
`23:51.48`	`patlabor221`	`hello fiber`
`23:51.50`	`patlabor221`	`how goes it?`
`23:52.16`	`fiberchunks`	`good thanks`
`23:52.33`	`Megachirops`	`y'know, the cheating/anti-cheating battle sounds like a programmers' war.. who does the best programming, the cheaters or anti-cheaters? ;)`
`23:53.11`	`patlabor221`	`you can never beat all cheats`
`23:53.17`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`The anti-cheaters do the best programming, otherwise the cheaters wouldn't have anything to do. ;)`
`23:53.28`	`fiberchunks`	`heh`
`23:53.32`	`Megachirops`	`lol.. good point pat`
`23:53.57`	`patlabor221`	`since it is just a game, the best you can do is get rid of the vulgar ones`
`23:54.03`	`patlabor221`	`or minimse what the cheaters can do`
`23:54.12`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`I was accused of cheating yesterday because I had a tremendous lag of 94ms on quol. ;)`
`23:54.19`	`fiberchunks`	`lol`
`23:54.25`	`fiberchunks`	`ooo, that's huge lag ;)`
`23:54.37`	`patlabor221`	`yeah, are you on satalite or something?`
`23:55.15`	`patlabor221`	`in an open active dev enviroment, I don't feel there is any way to ever trust a client`
`23:55.29`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`Use a wirebrush ;)`
`23:55.42`	`CIA`	`03atupone * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (playing.cxx): bot selection of target take into account rabbit rule`
`23:55.45`	`fiberchunks`	`cd /; rm -rf * :)`
`23:55.51`	`*** part/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-217-133-255-34.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)`
`23:56.01`	`patlabor221`	`just run setup.exe`
`23:56.08`	`fiberchunks`	`lol, on linux?`
`23:56.08`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`Steel wool gets the platters nice and shiny too. :)`
`23:56.14`	`patlabor221`	`sure use wine :)`
`23:56.39`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`We have enough whiners around here ;)`
`23:56.42`	`fiberchunks`	`what is it: c:`
`23:56.47`	`fiberchunks`	`fdisk /mbr?`
`23:58.05`	`patlabor221`	`I dono, is creeper here?`
`23:58.07`	`Megachirops`	`good point`
`23:58.11`	`TyroneFHornigh`	`I'm not planning on hiring fiber to be my sysadmin anytime soon. :)`
`23:59.12`	`fiberchunks`	`lol`
`23:59.36`	`fiberchunks`	`hey, anyone know how to _just_ add .* files/dirs to a tar archive?`
`23:59.55`	`fiberchunks`	`I do tar czvf foo.tar.gz .* but it adds all directories too :\`

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