irclog2html for #bzflag on 20030824

`00:07.38`	`Chikorita`	`wuts wrong DT?`
`00:08.10`	`DTRemenak`	`it was a sigh of relief, not one of distress :)`
`00:08.36`	`DTRemenak`	`ever tried to set up SSH on a RH6 system that didn't have GCC installed?`
`00:08.41`	`Chikorita`	`o dats good :)`
`00:08.57`	`Chikorita`	`um cant say dat i have LoL`
`00:09.12`	`Chikorita`	`buh i guessin itz not easy`
`00:10.22`	`Chikorita`	`telnet heh`
`00:10.30`	`Chikorita`	`i remember telnet`
`00:10.39`	`DTRemenak`	`telnet = security hazard`
`00:11.14`	`ElectricElf`	`DTRemenak: Could always use telnet-ssl, though I suspect if you had difficulties with SSH you wouldn't have much more luck with telnet-ssl :)`
`00:11.29`	`Chikorita`	`used it to connect 2 mah skool`
`00:11.46`	`DTRemenak`	`well, ssh works now, so I'm not gonna go try encapsulating telnet to do the same thing :)`
`00:12.03`	`ElectricElf`	`DTRemenak: Yeah, quite. :)`
`00:12.17`	`Chikorita`	`o ty i need a paperweight`
`00:13.23`	`Chikorita`	`lol`
`00:13.45`	`DTRemenak`	`or would you prefer a hard drive that makes "click click" noises?`
`00:14.21`	`DTRemenak`	`if you have BIG papers to hold down, I have a monitor with a nonfunctional red gun on that shelf over there`
`00:14.54`	`Chikorita`	`heh`
`00:14.59`	`ElectricElf`	`DTRemenak: You can never have too much cyan.`
`00:15.07`	`DTRemenak`	`:)`
`00:15.29`	`DTRemenak`	`the lack of red is kinda disturbing in BZFlag tho`
`00:15.40`	`DTRemenak`	`Fine in RvG CTF`
`00:15.56`	`DTRemenak`	`but not in FFA (will geno kill him or not???)`
`00:17.02`	`Chikorita`	`so u cant c red tanks?`
`00:17.13`	`DTRemenak`	`they're just...black`
`00:17.20`	`Chikorita`	`ah`
`00:17.33`	`DTRemenak`	`not the monitor I'm using now, this one's nice`
`00:17.45`	`Chikorita`	`heehe`
`00:21.18`	`Patlabor221`	`why?`
`00:21.27`	`DTRemenak`	`'cause it was there?`
`00:21.53`	`Patlabor221`	`so is a hamer to hit yourself in the head, but I don't see you doing that :)`
`00:22.12`	`fiberchunks_`	`allo Patlabor221, et al`
`00:22.33`	`DTRemenak`	`My v.92 died in a lightning storm (I THOUGHT it was in a surge protector, but upon a later check, realized it wasn't)`
`00:22.35`	`Patlabor221`	`sup`
`00:22.53`	`Patlabor221`	`well why use a modem at all`
`00:22.55`	`DTRemenak`	`and I couldn't find any v.90s around`
`00:22.57`	`Patlabor221`	`you need some borad bands`
`00:23.17`	`DTRemenak`	`b/c the only broadband in this area is satellite`
`00:23.25`	`bryjen`	`http://www.sangoma.com/cards_cables/514ft1.htm`
`00:23.25`	`Patlabor221`	`move :)`
`00:23.27`	`fiberchunks_`	`interesting little discussion there on the channel a little ways back`
`00:23.35`	`DTRemenak`	`Pat: thought about it`
`00:23.49`	`Patlabor221`	`Think not.. Do...`
`00:23.51`	`Patlabor221`	`fiber`
`00:23.53`	`Patlabor221`	`http://bfoj.bakadigital.com/movies/BloodGulch/RvB_PSA3_HiRes.avi`
`00:23.53`	`DTRemenak`	`:)`
`00:24.08`	`Patlabor221`	`and anyone else who has a sense of humor should watch that`
`00:24.24`	`bryjen`	`.avi :(`
`00:24.32`	`DTRemenak`	`hm...I bought my sense of humor in a run-down pawnshop in East Oakland, think it'll still work?`
`00:24.41`	`fiberchunks_`	`yay!`
`00:24.50`	`Patlabor221`	`it's divx`
`00:24.57`	`Patlabor221`	`linux WILL play it`
`00:25.03`	`fiberchunks_`	`indeed`
`00:25.14`	`Patlabor221`	`DTRemenak yeah it will still work`
`00:25.21`	`Patlabor221`	`ohh yeah it's like 30 megs`
`00:25.24`	`Patlabor221`	`no soup for you`
`00:25.51`	`bryjen`	`recommend an app for linux ?`
`00:25.52`	`Patlabor221`	`smallest thing I have is a 2.4 meg PSA2`
`00:25.55`	`Patlabor221`	`mplayer`
`00:26.13`	`DTRemenak`	`2.4 meg = 1/2 hour on this connection?`
`00:26.13`	`Patlabor221`	`www.divx.com has info`
`00:26.28`	`Patlabor221`	`probalby`
`00:26.31`	`fiberchunks_`	`mplayer for sure -- though xine isn't bad (it's just a p.i.t.a. sometimes)`
`00:26.50`	`DTRemenak`	`is it worth it?`
`00:26.56`	`Patlabor221`	`it's very very funny`
`00:27.10`	`Patlabor221`	`specialy if you have ever played CTF games`
`00:27.18`	`Patlabor221`	`hence its title "red vs blue"`
`00:27.30`	`DTRemenak`	`got a url for the low-res version?`
`00:27.50`	`Patlabor221`	`www.redvsblue.com`
`00:27.52`	`fiberchunks_`	`yah, but it doesn't really have anything to do with CTF though -- more just people ragging on each other ;)`
`00:28.09`	`Patlabor221`	`hey dohnut gets the flag at one point`
`00:28.16`	`fiberchunks_`	`heh`
`00:28.24`	`Patlabor221`	`he does soo good they give him some new armor`
`00:28.26`	`fiberchunks_`	`that's a 'subliminal' CTF thing`
`00:28.27`	`fiberchunks_`	`:)`
`00:28.39`	`Patlabor221`	`kinda a "litish red"`
`00:29.13`	`Patlabor221`	`there are more now`
`00:29.17`	`Patlabor221`	`up to ep 16`
`00:29.23`	`fiberchunks_`	`oooo, goody`
`00:29.30`	`fiberchunks_`	`I think last one I have is 14`
`00:29.31`	`Patlabor221`	`psa2 isn'`
`00:29.31`	`fiberchunks_`	`or 13`
`00:29.34`	`Patlabor221`	`psa2 isn't the best one`
`00:29.46`	`Patlabor221`	`psa1 is funny`
`00:30.33`	`*** join/#bzflag LagMonkey (~simon@adsl-64-172-197-136.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net)`
`00:30.45`	`*** join/#bzflag LagMonkey (~simon@adsl-64-172-197-136.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net)`
`00:30.54`	`Patlabor221`	`hi lagmonkey`
`00:30.55`	`LagMonkey`	`Hi, Patlabor221`
`00:32.36`	`bryjen`	`lo LagMonkey`
`00:33.52`	`*** join/#bzflag doughecka (~~joe@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net)`
`00:34.09`	`Patlabor221`	`hmmm I didn't teach it "lo"`
`00:35.14`	`Patlabor221`	`What Up lagmonkey, how you doing?`
`00:35.14`	`LagMonkey`	`Hello, Patlabor221 I'm coo, how you doin?`
`00:36.20`	`bryjen`	`your requisition`
`00:37.22`	`bryjen`	`hehe`
`00:37.24`	`Patlabor221`	`! insult learner`
`00:37.40`	`bryjen`	`LagMonkey insult Patlabor221`
`00:37.41`	`LagMonkey`	`thy food is such as hath been belch'd upon by infected lungs, learner.`
`00:37.43`	`LagMonkey`	`<PROTECTED>`
`00:37.54`	`Patlabor221`	`!insult learner`
`00:37.54`	`LagMonkey`	`learner wow I didn't know cousins could marry in your state.`
`00:38.09`	`bryjen`	`WV ?`
`00:38.21`	`Patlabor221`	`!addinsult %n you bite.`
`00:38.22`	`LagMonkey`	`"%n you bite." has been added to the insult list`
`00:39.56`	`DTRemenak`	`what, the guppies aren't enough?`
`00:40.08`	`learner`	`they were small`
`00:41.22`	`bryjen`	`well, the box was _large_. I didn't check the fish. ;)`
`00:44.01`	`[dmp]`	`hm`
`00:47.58`	`DTRemenak`	`hm?`
`00:48.06`	`learner`	`hm`
`00:48.11`	`DTRemenak`	`hm`
`00:48.19`	`[dmp]`	`hm!`
`00:48.28`	`DTRemenak`	`hm?!?!`
`00:48.39`	`learner`	`hm`
`00:49.07`	`[dmp]`	`Let's write lyrics to the next britneyspears album. I can feel vibes in this`
`00:49.30`	`[dmp]`	`hm, better get some sleep`
`01:11.53`	`*** part/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@host-225-52.dialup.innercite.com)`
`01:19.17`	`*** join/#bzflag BaDiN (Paramount@adslsapo-b3-253-24.telepac.pt)`
`01:19.18`	`BaDiN`	`ol�`
`01:35.09`	`*** join/#bzflag JBDiGriz (~JBDiGriz@adsl-63-204-118-194.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net)`
`02:17.58`	`Patlabor221`	`yay, lagmonkey don't time out anymore after 30-40 min`
`02:18.09`	`captain_proton`	`is lagmonkey your mfcbot?`
`02:20.02`	`Patlabor221`	`yes :)`
`02:20.11`	`Patlabor221`	`it's very very lagy`
`02:20.52`	`Patlabor221`	`it's also using like 3.8 megs of ram`
`02:22.05`	`captain_proton`	`terrifying`
`02:22.28`	`Patlabor221`	`it strikes fear in the hearts of man`
`02:22.52`	`Patlabor221`	`tho it will let you add insults to it's list from within IRC :)`
`02:23.03`	`captain_proton`	`how...useful`
`02:23.09`	`Patlabor221`	`yeah`
`02:23.32`	`Patlabor221`	`I'm going to add a real "seen" function to it, that'll be the most usefull thing`
`02:23.44`	`captain_proton`	`perhaps the most important question is`
`02:23.47`	`captain_proton`	`why is it in #bzflag? ;)`
`02:23.59`	`Patlabor221`	`for insults`
`02:24.06`	`Patlabor221`	`since we lost noodlebot`
`02:24.09`	`captain_proton`	`we don't need insults`
`02:24.17`	`Patlabor221`	`true`
`02:24.20`	`Patlabor221`	`and I was rather bored`
`02:24.21`	`captain_proton`	`insults are unnecessary functionality`
`02:24.29`	`scanline`	`~fishslap insults`
`02:24.30`		`ACTION slaps insults up side the head with a wet fish.`
`02:24.38`	`Patlabor221`	`!lart scanline`
`02:24.38`	`LagMonkey`	`scanline wow I didn't know cousins could marry in your state.`
`02:25.16`	`Patlabor221`	`well lagmonkey is rather stupid`
`02:25.50`	`Patlabor221`	`I've got him his own channel for testing now, probably won't bring him back till he can tell us what server a callsign is on`
`02:26.08`	`Patlabor221`	`or when they were last seen`
`02:26.17`	`captain_proton`	`don't we have a web page to do that?`
`02:26.23`	`Patlabor221`	`yeah`
`02:26.33`	`Patlabor221`	`but people seem to come here looking for people`
`02:26.50`	`captain_proton`	`Patlabor221: then we should encourage them to look at the web sites and bookmark them`
`02:26.51`	`Patlabor221`	`we also have e-mail for commits, but CIA is here :)`
`02:27.42`	`*** part/#bzflag LagMonkey (~simon@adsl-64-172-197-136.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net)`
`02:28.08`	`Patlabor221`	`sadly I don't know perl so I can't mod ibot`
`02:28.24`	`scanline`	`you could try.. learning perl`
`02:28.31`	`Patlabor221`	`why, I know C`
`02:28.51`	`Patlabor221`	`and I've layed out this bot rather nicely`
`02:28.59`	`Patlabor221`	`the ibot code was "odd"`
`02:29.01`	`captain_proton`	`nicely? its using freaking MFC`
`02:29.09`	`Patlabor221`	`only for the interface`
`02:29.16`	`Patlabor221`	`broke the bot into it's own class`
`02:29.30`	`scanline`	`C is a terrible language for a bot`
`02:29.42`	`Patlabor221`	`and all the commands and converstation parsers are derived off of a base "handaler" class`
`02:29.43`	`scanline`	`in a bot you want security from buffer overruns, and good string handling`
`02:29.57`	`Patlabor221`	`yeah, that's why I'm using MFC CStrings :)`
`02:30.12`	`scanline`	`pervert`
`02:30.37`	`Patlabor221`	`just cus you don't like it dosn't mean it's bad, it's just what you told me about python :)`
`02:30.47`	`gonkulator`	`scanline: I tried learning perl, it didn't go well, remember?`
`02:31.23`	`Patlabor221`	`It's being setup to where each command can be a plugin, and posibly even a python module`
`02:31.33`	`Patlabor221`	`or script`
`02:31.42`	`Patlabor221`	`I don't think modlule is the right word`
`02:31.46`	`scanline`	`Patlabor221: there is no good reason to use MFC strings instead of STL strings`
`02:31.59`	`Patlabor221`	`yeah, CString.format`
`02:32.14`	`Patlabor221`	`lets your sprintf into it`
`02:32.20`	`Patlabor221`	`or stream`
`02:32.51`	`Patlabor221`	`also the CFile and CArchive work well with CString to parse up files`
`02:33.07`	`scanline`	`that's... bleh`
`02:33.09`	`Patlabor221`	`tho it really is just an expirement in abominationness`
`02:33.14`	`scanline`	`such silliness when you could use perl or python`
`02:33.34`	`Patlabor221`	`it works for me :)`
`02:33.59`	`scanline`	`hmm, I seem to have a gentoo 1.4rc4 stage 3 iso`
`02:34.10`	`scanline`	`it is`
`02:34.17`	`Patlabor221`	`BZGirl lubs it`
`02:34.27`	`scanline`	`not for gaming of course, but great for running windows EDA apps and doing OS development type stuff`
`02:34.48`	`Patlabor221`	`yeah, I hear it can't get hardware accelleration or anything like that`
`02:34.49`	`scanline`	`I usually use it to run windows-only microcontroller and FPGA tools, but I'm about to set up a linux VM to try some kernel coding`
`02:34.56`	`scanline`	`well, it does accelerated 2D`
`02:34.57`	`scanline`	`just not 3D`
`02:35.09`	`Patlabor221`	`wow that's more then I figured, that's nice`
`02:35.45`	`scanline`	`VMware 4 has some DirectX support`
`02:35.47`	`ElectricElf`	`I use it too.`
`02:35.54`	`ElectricElf`	`scanline: Not enough for games.`
`02:36.04`	`scanline`	`it will run Starcraft`
`02:36.05`	`ElectricElf`	`Right, you already covered that :)`
`02:36.07`	`Patlabor221`	`Direct X is such an ugly API`
`02:36.14`	`scanline`	`indeed`
`02:36.27`	`ElectricElf`	`Patlabor221: If you're looking at this kind of thing, you might also want to check out win4lin from Netraverse.`
`02:36.44`	`ElectricElf`	`(I use VMware for all sorts of things, not Windows. If I just used Windows I might try Win4lin.)`
`02:36.46`	`Patlabor221`	`ohh, I have a windows machine allrady`
`02:36.51`	`Patlabor221`	`and a linux machine`
`02:37.16`	`Patlabor221`	`tho I should put some more ram in the linux machine`
`02:40.41`	`captain_proton`	`my bandwidth is teh suck right now`
`02:40.52`	`Patlabor221`	`25 meg too much?`
`02:41.28`	`Patlabor221`	`http://bfoj.bakadigital.com/movies/BloodGulch/RvB_PSA3_HiRes.avi`
`02:41.28`	`captain_proton`	`with scanline using it up, probably would be about 6 hours minimum`
`02:41.36`	`Patlabor221`	`ouch`
`02:41.47`	`scanline`	`I'm not using any AFAIK`
`02:41.56`	`Patlabor221`	`don't you have a "gimme the bandwith" bat?`
`02:41.57`	`scanline`	`well, not much`
`02:42.03`	`scanline`	`some browsing of USB and kernel docs, but that's it`
`02:42.04`	`Patlabor221`	`ha... see`
`02:42.07`	`Patlabor221`	`trust me it's funny :)`
`02:42.19`	`captain_proton`	`scanline: until right before i said that, i was at 8s lag`
`02:42.20`	`captain_proton`	`oh well`
`02:42.24`	`ElectricElf`	`Patlabor221: That file is way too huge for what you get. :)`
`02:42.25`	`scanline`	`and now some looking up of gentoo docs...`
`02:42.33`	`captain_proton`	`hmm...gimme the bandwidth bat...`
`02:42.36`	`scanline`	`captain_proton: yeah, I was getting some mad lag too, but assumed you were downloading something`
`02:42.44`	`ElectricElf`	`(I mean, who really needs a 600x800 or whatever it is AVI of heads bobbing?)`
`02:42.45`	`scanline`	`captain_proton: could be dan or his roommates`
`02:42.49`	`captain_proton`	`could be`
`02:42.55`	`Patlabor221`	`it should only be 640`
`02:43.04`	`captain_proton`	`my whiffle bat was quite useful`
`02:43.10`	`captain_proton`	`in our bicycle jousting episodes`
`02:43.13`	`ElectricElf`	`Patlabor221: Whatever it is, it's very large :)`
`02:43.21`	`Patlabor221`	`naw that's not large`
`02:43.49`	`Patlabor221`	`tho they have lower res versions on there site`
`02:44.05`	`ElectricElf`	`It's 720x480 :)`
`02:44.16`	`Patlabor221`	`wow`
`02:44.23`	`captain_proton`	`Patlabor221: tell ya what`
`02:44.25`	`ElectricElf`	`(and, I mean, heads bobbing. Seriously. :)`
`02:44.30`	`ElectricElf`	`Somebody needs to learn Flash or something ;)`
`02:44.33`	`Patlabor221`	`yeah it is`
`02:44.39`	`captain_proton`	`when i get these new video-player boxes working`
`02:44.43`	`Patlabor221`	`do you know what it's from EE`
`02:44.44`	`captain_proton`	`you can send me a super-res one`
`02:44.51`	`captain_proton`	`and i'll watch it on an 11x8.5' screen`
`02:44.52`	`Patlabor221`	`bfoj has them all`
`02:44.53`	`ElectricElf`	`Patlabor221: What, the graphics?`
`02:44.58`	`Patlabor221`	`yeah`
`02:45.11`	`Patlabor221`	`that's recorded from halo right of an x-box`
`02:45.37`	`Patlabor221`	`so flash would not really be good for that`
`02:45.40`	`ElectricElf`	`Patlabor221: Yeah, I presumed it was from Halo.`
`02:46.00`	`Patlabor221`	`There regular episoded have more motion usualy`
`02:46.01`	`ElectricElf`	`http://phunny.drghetto.com/switchlinux3.swf`
`02:46.06`	`Patlabor221`	`and are bout the same time`
`02:46.41`	`Patlabor221`	`yeah that one is funny`
`02:46.44`	`Patlabor221`	`seen that a while ago`
`02:46.49`	`Patlabor221`	`all vecor art tho`
`02:46.52`	`ElectricElf`	`K :)`
`02:46.56`	`ElectricElf`	`"fembots with a penchant for evil" :)`
`02:47.05`	`ElectricElf`	`Patlabor221: Of course.`
`02:47.12`	`ElectricElf`	`Great quality, small file size, excellent results.`
`02:47.22`	`Patlabor221`	`sure, for vector art`
`02:47.39`	`Patlabor221`	`not so hot for streaming real video`
`02:47.58`	`scanline`	`I'm sure you could write a driver for the Xbox that would intercept the DirectX calls and convert to a flash movie`
`02:48.15`	`Patlabor221`	`with the shaders?`
`02:48.28`	`Patlabor221`	`tho they don't use a moded x-box`
`02:49.11`	`ElectricElf`	`Patlabor221: I fail to see the difference between "streaming real video" and viewing a vector-based animation when the "real video" can be reproduced exactly with a vector-based animation, recorded as a series of bitmaps, and then sent down the wire.`
`02:49.24`	`ElectricElf`	`(Well, except for the obvious difference in bandwidth and CPU power required)`
`02:49.27`	`Patlabor221`	`sure you could fake it`
`02:49.38`	`Patlabor221`	`and I don't think it would look as good`
`02:49.38`	`ElectricElf`	`Patlabor221: It's an artificial distinction.`
`02:49.43`	`ElectricElf`	`Patlabor221: Pfft :)`
`02:49.57`	`Patlabor221`	`would take more work on the artist side too`
`02:49.58`	`ElectricElf`	`Patlabor221: I've worked with some pretty crappy animators and they do a pretty good job :)`
`02:50.04`	`Patlabor221`	`yeah`
`02:50.14`	`ElectricElf`	`Yep, it would take more work by the artists, generally speaking.`
`02:50.20`	`Patlabor221`	`lot more`
`02:50.27`	`ElectricElf`	`(Though the redvsblue example I have is a bad one - that'd be way easier to do with something like Flash)`
`02:50.41`	`Patlabor221`	`well you have only seen the PSAs`
`02:50.55`	`Patlabor221`	`http://bfoj.bakadigital.com/movies/BloodGulch/RvB_Episode01_HiRes.avi`
`02:51.09`	`Patlabor221`	`those don't have motion`
`02:51.09`	`Patlabor221`	`they are just bobin heads`
`02:51.15`	`Patlabor221`	`tho even those other could be done in flash`
`02:51.30`	`Patlabor221`	`but they would take a LOT longer to do`
`02:51.42`	`Patlabor221`	`they pump one of these out a week`
`02:52.16`	`Patlabor221`	`this was there off week so we only get a PSA`
`02:54.27`	`ElectricElf`	`Thinking about one of those Zaurus SL-C760s as replacement.`
`02:56.11`	`*** join/#bzflag PatlaborFMP (~jeffm@adsl-64-172-197-136.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net)`
`02:57.26`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ`
`02:58.47`	`*** join/#bzflag Quol (~Quol@modemcable052.11-203-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca)`
`03:10.34`	`*** join/#bzflag bzgirl (~orchid@toronto-hs-64-26-176-100.s-ip.magma.ca)`
`03:11.07`	`*** join/#bzflag JBDiGriz (~JBDiGriz@adsl-63-204-118-194.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net)`
`03:13.48`	`fiberchunks_`	`allo, anyone aware (or have), a laptop (~1GHz, 256 MB of RAM) they want to get rid of?`
`03:14.14`	`fiberchunks_`	`I prefer to buy from people I trust, rather than ebay (if possible)`
`03:15.28`	`PatlaborFMP`	`we sell them too`
`03:15.31`	`PatlaborFMP`	`http://www.rgpsales.com/RGPmedia/content.asp?name=maxnote_series`
`03:16.20`	`fiberchunks_`	`is that the 9000 series?`
`03:17.21`	`PatlaborFMP`	`there are a couple series there`
`03:18.36`	`fiberchunks_`	`mmm, can't get it near the price I'm looking for (~$400) << anyone think this is unreasonable`
`03:18.47`	`fiberchunks_`	`am I expecting too much?`
`03:19.24`	`PatlaborFMP`	`for a gig? with how large a screen?`
`03:19.41`	`fiberchunks_`	`doesn't really matter -- the most important part is the processor and RAM`
`03:20.05`	`PatlaborFMP`	`for 400 you won't get a new one`
`03:20.28`	`fiberchunks_`	`it's for a buddy of mine, who is currently living in poverty (planned poverty), but needs a laptop -- I can afford around $500 and give it to him as a gift`
`03:20.38`	`fiberchunks_`	`new isn't necessary, just robust`
`03:20.48`	`fiberchunks_`	`and linux compatible`
`03:20.50`	`fiberchunks_`	`:)`
`03:20.53`	`PatlaborFMP`	`then ebay`
`03:21.28`	`fiberchunks_`	`that's what I was figuring -- but I thought I'd ask here first, see if anyone's got anything they want / need to get rid of`
`03:21.49`	`fiberchunks_`	`sad thing is, I've got 2 laptops that suit the bill, but both of the mobos fried`
`03:21.50`	`fiberchunks_`	`:\`
`03:22.29`	`fiberchunks_`	`by the way -- don't ever buy a sager laptop -- they are horribly constructed`
`03:22.55`	`PatlaborFMP`	`I could have told you that`
`03:23.00`	`PatlaborFMP`	`they are EVIL`
`03:23.18`	`fiberchunks_`	`indeed -- but I didn't know you when I bought the thing -- and surprisingly they got good reviews`
`03:23.52`	`ElectricElf`	`fiberchunks_: I've got an IBM Thinkpad 380D. It's still in active use, but it's a very solid laptop.`
`03:23.54`	`fiberchunks_`	`it was a mess when I took it apart for post-fire diagnosis`
`03:24.03`	`fiberchunks_`	`for sale? and if so, what specs?`
`03:24.10`	`ElectricElf`	`Nope, not for sale.`
`03:24.25`	`fiberchunks_`	`ah, well what're the specs anyway?`
`03:24.28`	`ElectricElf`	`Still in pretty much perfect condition (except for scratches on the case that I put there). It's about five, six years old, and it's been running continuously for about 2 and a half years now.`
`03:24.37`	`ElectricElf`	`Pentium 150MMX, 32M of memory, 2GB hard drive.`
`03:24.44`	`ElectricElf`	`It's a rock. :)`
`03:24.55`	`fiberchunks_`	`mmm, processor's too small :\ thanks though`
`03:24.59`	`ElectricElf`	`(800x600x16bit display)`
`03:25.05`	`ElectricElf`	`fiberchunks_: Well, like I said, it's not for sale.`
`03:25.14`	`ElectricElf`	`fiberchunks_: But if he's after reliability, something along these lines may be suitable.`
`03:25.22`	`PatlaborFMP`	`150`
`03:25.24`	`PatlaborFMP`	`slow`
`03:25.34`	`fiberchunks_`	`indeed, but it's also for future DAW work in linux`
`03:25.39`	`ElectricElf`	`(Battery is still good for two hours charge, too, and I think it was originally for three. Excellent staying power.)`
`03:25.43`	`fiberchunks_`	`hence the ram and processor requirement`
`03:25.44`	`ElectricElf`	`fiberchunks_: DAW?`
`03:25.59`	`fiberchunks_`	`Digital Audio Workstation (i.e. HD mixing / mastering)`
`03:26.05`	`ElectricElf`	`fiberchunks_: CPU and memory and disk are irrelevant. I'm`
`03:26.20`	`ElectricElf`	`fiberchunks_: CPU and memory and disk are pretty much irrelevant, I'm just pointing you to a good brand.`
`03:26.27`	`fiberchunks_`	`indeed`
`03:33.41`	`*** join/#bzflag Carnage (strayer@dyn216-8-132-170.ADSL.mnsi.net)`
`04:05.45`	`*** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@host-225-21.dialup.innercite.com)`
`04:10.12`	`learner`	`~quol`
`04:19.57`	`learner`	`FMP? is that like freakishly multi-processored?`
`04:20.44`	`DTRemenak`	`I was wondering 'bout that too`
`04:22.18`	`DTRemenak`	`fmp.com turns up "FMP Computer Services"`
`04:22.34`	`DTRemenak`	`"Everything works if you let it!"`
`04:22.40`	`DTRemenak`	`some motto`
`04:22.42`	`learner`	`fake medical practicioner?`
`04:23.06`	`DTRemenak`	`fmp.it is FileMaker Pro`
`04:23.41`	`DTRemenak`	`fmp.de is Financial Market Partners`
`04:24.46`	`DTRemenak`	`fmp-online.de is Free Music Produktion`
`04:25.06`	`DTRemenak`	`fmp-berlin.de is "Forschungsinstitut f�r Molekulare Pharmakologie"`
`04:25.13`	`DTRemenak`	`some drug company`
`04:25.37`	`DTRemenak`	`fmp666.com is Full Moon Productions (sounds spooky)`
`04:26.19`	`bzgirl`	`http://www.full-metal-panic.com/`
`04:26.50`	`DTRemenak`	`fmp.fr is...something french`
`04:27.00`	`DTRemenak`	`mutual fund co?`
`04:29.18`	`DTRemenak`	`http://www.ram.org/ramblings/philosophy/fmp.html - Free Music Philosophy`
`04:29.24`	`PatlaborFMP`	`the girl is allways right :)`
`04:29.36`	`DTRemenak`	`ooh`
`04:31.00`	`DTRemenak`	`The images on that page are still loading, so I have No Idea (TM) what it actually is`
`04:31.26`	`DTRemenak`	`Ah...gotta love meta tags`
`04:31.30`	`PatlaborFMP`	`I didn't even know they had a site`
`04:32.09`	`DTRemenak`	`I wish they wouldn't put so many pictures on it...but then, that would be kinda pointless, huh.`
`04:32.57`	`PatlaborFMP`	`hah the main page changes each reload`
`04:33.28`	`DTRemenak`	`heh, then I'll make sure never to go back :)`
`04:35.14`	`*** join/#bzflag Carnage (strayer@dyn216-8-132-170.ADSL.mnsi.net)`
`04:35.17`	`DTRemenak`	`I don't know what people see in this...`
`04:35.29`	`bzgirl`	`~quol`
`04:36.09`	`PatlaborFMP`	`fmp is kinda funny`
`04:36.27`	`DTRemenak`	`I meant, anime in general`
`04:36.54`	`DTRemenak`	`I know lots of ppl who enjoy it, but I really, honestly, do not see why.`
`04:37.03`	`PatlaborFMP`	`photoshop is your one tue friend :)`
`04:37.10`	`DTRemenak`	`the GIMP`
`04:37.12`	`PatlaborFMP`	`some of it is rather good,`
`04:37.12`	`learner`	`indeed`
`04:37.20`	`PatlaborFMP`	`some of it is "ok"`
`04:37.23`	`PatlaborFMP`	`some of it is crap`
`04:37.39`	`learner`	`in the right hands, it can do "magic"`
`04:37.53`	`PatlaborFMP`	`I would recomend against seeing the crap ones`
`04:37.59`	`DTRemenak`	`Patlabor: same with any other art form, right?`
`04:38.07`	`PatlaborFMP`	`yeah`
`04:38.28`	`DTRemenak`	`I dunno, guess it's just not for me`
`04:38.31`	`PatlaborFMP`	`for those who don't get it, I recomend Cowboy Beebop`
`04:39.10`	`DTRemenak`	`I'll look into it`
`04:39.22`	`DTRemenak`	`presuming it can be found online`
`04:39.24`	`PatlaborFMP`	`tho you have to not mind Jaz as well`
`04:39.34`	`DTRemenak`	`Jazz, like the music?`
`04:39.34`	`PatlaborFMP`	`ehhhh well depends where you look :)`
`04:39.38`	`PatlaborFMP`	`yes`
`04:39.42`	`PatlaborFMP`	`like the music`
`04:39.46`	`DTRemenak`	`I can live with jazz.`
`04:40.09`	`DTRemenak`	`Jazz and classical are the extent of my musical preference`
`04:40.13`	`DTRemenak`	`maybe I'm just picky`
`04:40.43`	`PatlaborFMP`	`this is the them for Bebop`
`04:40.49`	`PatlaborFMP`	`http://bfoj.bakadigital.com/movies/anime/cowboy_bebop/01%20-%20-----%20-%20Tank!.mp3`
`04:41.52`	`PatlaborFMP`	`theme not them :)`
`04:42.06`	`captain_proton`	`yay for tank`
`04:42.10`	`DTRemenak`	`I'll listen to it sometime when I have time to download 3.2 MB`
`04:42.26`	`DTRemenak`	`right now, though, it's off to bed for me`
`04:42.46`	`PatlaborFMP`	`see ya`
`04:42.48`	`DTRemenak`	`c'yall later`
`04:42.59`	`learner`	`g'night dtr`
`04:43.12`	`*** part/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@host-225-21.dialup.innercite.com)`
`04:50.06`	`learner`	`Mmm.. do tell if there's any extra scenes or additional endings`
`04:51.50`	`PatlaborFMP`	`well allready it starts difrent`
`04:53.00`	`PatlaborFMP`	gou`auld ship coming and taking ra's first host
`04:55.56`	`PatlaborFMP`	`and they find evidence of jafa under the ring this time.`
`04:57.12`	`PatlaborFMP`	`I got the "ultimate" edition that has the DC, the normal one, and a lot of extras`
`04:58.52`	`learner`	`i saw it a couple days ago -- almost got it`
`04:59.38`	`PatlaborFMP`	`was only 20$`
`05:00.11`	`PatlaborFMP`	`tho I know it's now gonna be odd seing Kurt Russel as Jack`
`05:00.58`	`learner`	`yes... macguyver makes a _way_ better jack`
`05:01.19`	`PatlaborFMP`	`yeah`
`05:01.20`	`learner`	`though both dannys are good`
`05:01.33`	`PatlaborFMP`	`yeah`
`05:02.13`	`scanline`	`macgyver also makes a pretty good macgyver`
`05:02.33`	`PatlaborFMP`	`this is also very true`
`05:03.00`	`PatlaborFMP`	`wonder when they will put those on DVD`
`05:05.17`	`PatlaborFMP`	`know if there are any plans?`
`05:06.03`	`scanline`	`dunno`
`05:11.08`	`learner`	`http://www.dvdshowsonline.com/securestore/c188786.2.html`
`05:11.13`	`*** join/#bzflag MrApathyCream (MAC@balt-209-163-100-107.qis-dynamic-dialup.coretel.net)`
`05:12.45`	`PatlaborFMP`	`bah still no Norther Exposure`
`05:25.01`	`PatlaborFMP`	`well this version sets up why they took the bomb to abidos`
`05:25.16`	`PatlaborFMP`	`cus they knew "something" was there`
`05:33.32`	`*** join/#bzflag JBDiGriz (~JBDiGriz@adsl-63-204-118-194.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net)`
`05:33.59`	`JBDiGriz`	`learner: you still awake?`
`05:34.09`	`learner`	`JBDiGriz: no ;)`
`05:34.27`	`JBDiGriz`	`learner: and i bet you still have all that soap completely dry! ;-P`
`05:34.39`	`captain_proton`	`there's an online petition to put macG on dvd, but no plans, afaik`
`05:35.09`	`learner`	`cap, you didn't see the link?`
`05:36.12`	`captain_proton`	`ooooooooooooooooooooooooo`
`05:36.27`	`PatlaborFMP`	`I don't know if that's like a legit thing there`
`05:37.05`	`captain_proton`	`wow, 35 discs?`
`05:37.05`	`PatlaborFMP`	`noone else has it`
`05:37.13`	`scanline`	`looks rather homemade, so the quality probably isn't better than TV`
`05:37.18`	`Quol`	`that's a really great trick JB`
`05:37.20`	`learner`	`yea, it's not exactly a "season 1-7" dvd set that I'd expect -- perhaps just a slap-it-to-disk-for-sale venture`
`05:37.35`	`PatlaborFMP`	`I'm betting it's hong kong rips`
`05:37.37`	`scanline`	`the FAQ says the discs are all region-free`
`05:37.55`	`JBDiGriz`	`I don't take credit for it, \|tim\| came up with it.`
`05:38.53`	`captain_proton`	`hm, speaking of which`
`05:39.05`	`Quol`	`right - I was ust saying that it was a great trick...hard to reproduce though`
`05:39.06`	`PatlaborFMP`	`probably kaaza rios`
`05:39.18`	`Quol`	`the one flag always kept disappearing on me`
`05:39.56`	`captain_proton`	`tip for anybody who might be interested: mymacgyver.tk :P`
`05:42.37`	`Quol`	`well - gnight all`
`05:42.42`	`Quol`	`time for bed for me`
`05:42.48`	`bzgirl`	`cu Quol`
`05:43.05`	`learner`	`g'night Quol-man`
`05:43.21`	`JBDiGriz`	`g'nite q`
`05:57.03`	`Quol`	`OK - learner has been teaching me how to say good night`
`05:57.09`	`Quol`	`over and over again`
`05:57.14`	`Quol`	`this time I mean it - g'night`
`05:57.17`	`Quol`	`<PROTECTED>`
`05:57.27`	`bzgirl`	`cu Quol :)`
`05:57.32`	`learner`	`heh`
`05:58.10`	`learner`	`~quol`
`05:58.21`	`JBDiGriz`	`~learner`
`05:58.22`		`learner is probably your friend`
`05:58.32`	`learner`	`:D`
`05:58.42`	`bzgirl`	`~JBDiGriz`
`05:58.42`		`"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger!"`
`05:58.52`	`learner`	`hehe`
`05:59.04`	`learner`	`~bzgirl`
`05:59.06`		`well, bzgirl is the coolest around`
`05:59.26`	`bzgirl`	`~captain_proton`
`05:59.26`	`JBDiGriz`	`the coolest around what?`
`05:59.44`	`bzgirl`	`like the Fonz, jb`
`05:59.57`	`JBDiGriz`	`you wear leather?`
`06:00.04`	`learner`	`heh`
`06:00.04`	`bzgirl`	`sure`
`06:00.13`	`bzgirl`	`in the winter :)`
`06:00.20`	`JBDiGriz`	`we're going to see learner start drooling again!`
`06:00.37`	`JBDiGriz`	`and your hair is in a pompadour?`
`06:00.48`	`learner`	`I've been listening to soothing tunes - I'm coo`
`06:01.03`	`JBDiGriz`	`learner: tank tops`
`06:01.14`	`learner`	`cough`
`06:01.21`	`learner`	`ahem`
`06:01.26`	`JBDiGriz`	`learner: cheerleader skirts`
`06:02.32`	`JBDiGriz`	`learner: soap bars`
`06:02.48`	`bzgirl`	`http://bzgirl.bakadigital.com/tanktop.gif`
`06:03.16`	`JBDiGriz`	`You need a model! ;-)`
`06:03.21`	`ElectricElf`	`That wasn't what I was expecting.`
`06:03.42`	`bzgirl`	`heh`
`06:03.54`	`ElectricElf`	`bzgirl: :)`
`06:03.57`	`ElectricElf`	`(Still only kidding :)`
`06:04.07`	`PatlaborFMP`	`heh`
`06:04.53`	`learner`	`what are those little white things under the names?`
`06:05.03`	`JBDiGriz`	`Could somebody close the fume hood over ElectricElf?`
`06:05.26`	`ElectricElf`	`learner: Rockets?`
`06:05.28`	`JBDiGriz`	`markers?`
`06:05.31`	`ElectricElf`	`Fireworks?`
`06:05.51`	`learner`	`I'll refrain from saying what my guess was`
`06:06.05`	`ElectricElf`	`learner: Well, I wasn't going to mention what they reminded me of either. :)`
`06:06.06`	`JBDiGriz`	`learner: cold shower`
`06:06.52`	`bzgirl`	`bamf made the logo, we got a lot of wise cracks about the "rockets" :(`
`06:07.04`	`ElectricElf`	`bzgirl: This is not surprising.`
`06:07.18`	`PatlaborFMP`	`should make them bullets`
`06:07.26`	`ElectricElf`	`PatlaborFMP: I was thinking similar.`
`06:07.26`	`JBDiGriz`	`In this crowd, you could expect nothing else.`
`06:07.27`	`learner`	`lol`
`06:07.43`	`bzgirl`	`har har`
`06:07.45`	`JBDiGriz`	`PatlaborFMP: Ooh, the madonna look!`
`06:07.47`	`bzgirl`	`yuk it up`
`06:07.48`	`ElectricElf`	`JBDiGriz: I'll show it to my mum next time I see her and we'll get her reaction then. :)`
`06:07.50`	`learner`	`PatlaborFMP: !`
`06:07.57`	`PatlaborFMP`	`no not out`
`06:08.21`	`ElectricElf`	`bzgirl: Perhaps a helmet and something else.`
`06:08.30`	`ElectricElf`	`Crater maybe.`
`06:08.43`	`learner`	`as long as there are two of them, you're not gonna win :)`
`06:09.01`	`PatlaborFMP`	`well you could make them difrent`
`06:09.17`	`JBDiGriz`	`I would say her team would win quite handily!`
`06:09.19`	`ElectricElf`	`learner: Er. We weren't thinking the same thing then :)`
`06:15.59`	`*** join/#bzflag bzgirl (~orchid@ottawa-hs-64-26-167-231.d-ip.magma.ca)`
`06:18.41`	`JBDiGriz`	`~ElectricElf`
`06:19.02`	`CIA`	`03brlcad * 12bzflag/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Added VotingBooth class to libcommon build`
`06:19.47`	`JBDiGriz`	`What sort of schedule are we on for release?`
`06:22.08`	`JBDiGriz`	`It's time to get this crowd subversive again. It's far too complacent around here.`
`06:22.33`	`MrApathyCream`	`a slow one`
`06:25.05`	`learner`	`it seems to me like we could be about 2-3 weeks away from a beta release with the current stabilization rate`
`06:26.59`	`MrApathyCream`	`says the man adding a voting booth`
`06:27.31`	`learner`	`actually just about finished with it`
`06:28.09`	`learner`	`couple more days to add the server config options and hook up the timers`
`06:30.42`	`learner`	`want to ripping apart the bzfs /command handling func, but I'm exercising restraint for now`
`06:35.36`	`CIA`	`03brlcad * 12bzflag/src/platform/MacOSX/BZFlag.pbproj (project.pbxproj): Added VotingBooth to libCommonNet framework`
`06:36.54`	`captain_proton`	`learner: i'm thinking it would be nice to combine bzfs /command and CMDMGR`
`06:37.11`	`learner`	`i was thinking the same thing`
`06:37.38`	`learner`	`was going to hold off asking about how the cmdmgr works until later, though`
`06:37.48`	`captain_proton`	`heh`
`06:40.45`	`CIA`	`03brlcad * 12bzflag/src/bzfs (2 files): Add poll, vote, and veto permissions`
`06:45.35`	`learner`	`Oooooo...`
`06:45.37`	`learner`	`interesting`
`06:46.01`	`learner`	`all of my keybinding issues seem to go away if i build using project builder instead of with make..`
`06:46.29`	`learner`	`that's a bit scary`
`06:46.57`	`learner`	`also notice that you can "deburrow" rather quickly using jumping :)`
`06:47.52`	`*** join/#bzflag eddienull (~kevin@adsl-67-126-217-196.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net)`
`07:06.48`	`MrApathyCream`	`cool 50 meter walls!`
`07:15.45`	`PatlaborFMP`	`radar should use the size too`
`07:15.49`	`PatlaborFMP`	`it's not a GL thing`
`07:16.11`	`PatlaborFMP`	`world size is a global, not just a const that's all`
`07:16.26`	`PatlaborFMP`	`unless somone busted it`
`07:18.42`	`captain_proton`	`what in the world...`
`07:18.51`	`captain_proton`	`bzfs.cxx:823`
`07:19.08`	`captain_proton`	`who did that?`
`07:19.09`	`MrApathyCream`	`ah ok`
`07:19.21`	`MrApathyCream`	`WorldSize is still using the old constant, needs to be move to BZDB`
`07:19.38`	`PatlaborFMP`	`when i did it there was no bzbb`
`07:19.52`	`PatlaborFMP`	`so whoever did bzdb missed it`
`07:20.01`	`MrApathyCream`	`i'll put it in in a sec`
`07:20.13`	`MrApathyCream`	`captain_proton, um..... me?`
`07:20.21`	`captain_proton`	`~fishslap MrApathyCream`
`07:20.23`		`ACTION slaps MrApathyCream up side the head with a wet fish.`
`07:20.44`	`captain_proton`	`MrApathyCream: i'm changing that function to do this instead:`
`07:20.50`	`captain_proton`	`BZDB->set(StateDatabase::BZDB_FLAGHEIGHT, string_util::format("%f", fHeight));`
`07:21.00`	`MrApathyCream`	`ok... please don't check in`
`07:21.06`	`MrApathyCream`	`for a lil bit`
`07:21.14`	`MrApathyCream`	`i've got a big checkin going on a sloooooooow connection`
`07:21.24`	`MrApathyCream`	`don't want to fail on up-to-date`
`07:21.45`	`captain_proton`	`but i shall wait`
`07:21.47`	`PatlaborFMP`	`what are they doing to you?`
`07:23.02`	`PatlaborFMP`	`wack them with the bandwith bat`
`07:23.31`	`captain_proton`	`i don't have the bat here`
`07:23.37`	`captain_proton`	`its at my parents' house`
`07:23.39`	`PatlaborFMP`	`make one`
`07:23.41`	`captain_proton`	`i'll pick it up tomorrow`
`07:23.44`	`PatlaborFMP`	`out of shoes or something`
`07:24.10`	`PatlaborFMP`	`or the bandwith teflon coated frying pan`
`07:24.31`	`captain_proton`	`'bandwidth' has two d'`
`07:24.32`	`captain_proton`	`ss`
`07:24.46`	`captain_proton`	`i do have frying pans`
`07:24.50`	`PatlaborFMP`	`see`
`07:25.01`	`PatlaborFMP`	`I';m on the living room comp, it kinda sucks`
`07:25.02`	`CIA`	`03dbrosius * 12bzflag/ (20 files in 6 dirs): _wallHeight, _boxHeight, _pyrBase, _pyrHeight, _tankRadius, _muzzleFront, _muzzleHeight moved to BZFS`
`07:25.12`	`MrApathyCream`	`ok, cappy, commit away`
`07:28.16`	`MrApathyCream`	`learner: you say you can jump with burrow? you should be able to... hmmm...`
`07:28.34`	`learner`	`no`
`07:28.58`	`learner`	`when you drop the flag, you "unburrow" slowly again`
`07:28.59`	`MrApathyCream`	`PatlaborFMP, did you check out the z-bouncing bullets?`
`07:29.08`	`learner`	`you can speed this up quickly by jumping twice ;)`
`07:29.18`	`MrApathyCream`	`ah, ok`
`07:29.38`	`learner`	`effectively making a near-zero unburrow`
`07:30.14`	`PatlaborFMP`	`I put in a todo cus I could not get them right`
`07:30.47`	`captain_proton`	`arg`
`07:31.31`	`MrApathyCream`	`hmm what happened to my box textures?`
`07:32.05`	`MrApathyCream`	`PatlaborFMP, did you try the latest, is it not right?`
`07:32.23`	`captain_proton`	`MrApathyCream: this is with pyramids, your fix was for boxes`
`07:33.51`	`PatlaborFMP`	`do they go thur the ground?`
`07:34.10`	`MrApathyCream`	`yes currently, but that would probably be easy to fix as well`
`07:34.23`	`PatlaborFMP`	`then it's the same as it was before`
`07:34.31`	`PatlaborFMP`	`they should bounce`
`07:34.32`	`*** join/#bzflag eddienull (~kevin@adsl-67-126-217-196.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net)`
`07:35.04`	`MrApathyCream`	`well decks for instances has a really nice new dribbling effect on the platforms`
`07:35.56`	`MrApathyCream`	`anyone recall where in the code it tests your video card as relates textures?`
`07:36.03`	`captain_proton`	`MrApathyCream: 1.8 w/ buggy new physics patch had that effect ;)`
`07:36.20`	`PatlaborFMP`	`what does it say in the BZ bible should happen when shots hit the ground?`
`07:36.30`	`captain_proton`	`somewhere in SceneRenderer iirc`
`07:36.31`	`MrApathyCream`	`shrug`
`07:36.36`	`MrApathyCream`	`k`
`07:36.46`	`captain_proton`	`PatlaborFMP: its never really been an issue`
`07:36.49`	`PatlaborFMP`	`so I guess it's what ever you want to do`
`07:36.53`	`PatlaborFMP`	`well it is now`
`07:37.09`	`PatlaborFMP`	`the only way for them to get going down is off a rico`
`07:37.28`	`captain_proton`	`true`
`07:37.40`	`MrApathyCream`	`scenebuilder perhaps?`
`07:37.57`	`MrApathyCream`	`interestingly, bullets fired down into a pyramid don't bounce`
`07:38.10`	`MrApathyCream`	`(or up)`
`07:38.44`	`PatlaborFMP`	`that is what the todo is about`
`07:38.48`	`PatlaborFMP`	`that is the problem`
`07:39.20`	`MrApathyCream`	`arg... _boxHeight isn't initialized`
`07:39.24`	`MrApathyCream`	`searching....`
`07:39.33`	`MrApathyCream`	`no box textures..caused by it`
`07:39.42`	`CIA`	`03davidtrowbridge * 12bzflag/src (2 files in 2 dirs): clean up a few things, most notably MAC's evil variable set`
`07:39.45`	`captain_proton`	`the _botHeight stuff isn't really applicable to BZDB`
`07:39.50`	`captain_proton`	`since the client has no use for it`
`07:40.06`	`MrApathyCream`	`ah isee`
`07:40.09`	`PatlaborFMP`	`seems people want to put all kinds of stuff in there cap :)`
`07:40.24`	`captain_proton`	`mmmhmm`
`07:40.36`	`MrApathyCream`	`captain_proton, it allows server ops to adjust default settings for random worlds`
`07:40.40`	`MrApathyCream`	`through -vars`
`07:41.03`	`captain_proton`	`MrApathyCream: yeah...i guess`
`07:42.02`	`MrApathyCream`	`textures!!! woowoo`
`07:42.58`	`MrApathyCream`	`so shall i put in the bouncing ground?`
`07:43.01`	`learner`	`i maintain that the bzdb is a nicely worked out interface for storing data (that is not frequently updated), regardless of the bzdb's initial intended use :P`
`07:43.34`	`MrApathyCream`	`PatlaborFMP, evals are at least cached in a std::map now`
`07:43.43`	`PatlaborFMP`	`ahhh so n`
`07:43.45`	`captain_proton`	`learner: it is, but it only makes sense if that data is both serializable to a string and infrequently accessed`
`07:43.47`	`learner`	`pat: by looking at the implementation, it's all going into a map, so it's just a hash lookup`
`07:44.01`	`PatlaborFMP`	`map is not a hash`
`07:44.18`	`PatlaborFMP`	`map is a binary search`
`07:44.44`	`MrApathyCream`	`tree yes`
`07:44.50`	`PatlaborFMP`	`so it's n`
`07:44.58`	`captain_proton`	`MrApathyCream: hmm - eval()s are cached?`
`07:44.59`	`MrApathyCream`	`stl has a hashmap tho`
`07:45.04`	`MrApathyCream`	`yes`
`07:45.05`	`captain_proton`	`when does it update the cache?`
`07:45.13`	`MrApathyCream`	`callback`
`07:45.16`	`scanline`	`O(ln n) should be fine for this sort of thing`
`07:45.29`	`captain_proton`	`MrApathyCream: i think hash_map is still technically an sgi extension`
`07:45.29`	`PatlaborFMP`	`if it`
`07:45.36`	`PatlaborFMP`	`'s not looked up a lot yes`
`07:45.38`	`captain_proton`	`MrApathyCream: what about expressions that use a variable`
`07:45.50`	`captain_proton`	`do you create dependency lists? :)`
`07:45.54`	`CIA`	`03dbrosius * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (playing.cxx): Move statedatabase initialization earlier to make sure vars have at least a non-NAN value`
`07:45.58`	`MrApathyCream`	`captain_proton, no`
`07:46.10`	`MrApathyCream`	`'exercise for the reader'`
`07:46.14`	`captain_proton`	`hehe`
`07:46.43`	`MrApathyCream`	`i was thinking about just clearing the whole cache on any callback, but....`
`07:47.28`	`CIA`	`03davidtrowbridge * 12bzflag/ (TODO): talk about making cacheing more intelligent`
`07:49.03`	`learner`	`cap: per earlier comment, is it only true that it only makes sense if the data is serializeable because the state database class presently only supports strings?`
`07:49.33`	`captain_proton`	`learner: well - sort of`
`07:49.38`	`captain_proton`	`from the public interface, yes`
`07:49.49`	`captain_proton`	`implementation gets -much- more complicated otherwise`
`07:50.05`	`captain_proton`	`one nice thing about BZDB is that its internally simple`
`07:50.17`	`learner`	`pat: ah, did not know about hash_map -- I'd remember reading years ago that internally a map could be (and mostl likely would be) actually implemented using hash tables`
`07:50.33`	`learner`	`but that was pre-standardization`
`07:50.49`	`PatlaborFMP`	`std requires all map key classes to have a < oper`
`07:51.05`	`MrApathyCream`	`yup`
`07:51.49`	`learner`	`yes?`
`07:54.10`	`learner`	`that basically just gives you bidirectional iterators, which says nothing as to whether it's a red-black tree, a hash on key, etc`
`07:55.11`	`learner`	`I imagine the main difference of hash_map is the ability to define your own hash functions`
`08:02.16`	`PatlaborFMP`	`and the fact that one IS a tree`
`08:02.28`	`PatlaborFMP`	`I've use maps to sort as I add`
`08:03.05`	`PatlaborFMP`	`be great for a dept sorter`
`08:03.09`	`PatlaborFMP`	`depth even :)`
`08:03.59`	`learner`	`i wouldn't call it a tree (although a particular stl implementation may be one) -- it's just an ordered key container with convenient insertion`
`08:05.11`	`PatlaborFMP`	`it's a one sided binary tree`
`08:05.23`	`PatlaborFMP`	`but they are all proper descriptpions`
`08:05.28`	`PatlaborFMP`	`it has it's uses`
`08:05.54`	`captain_proton`	`learner: std::map specifies log2(n) time. i don't know how you'd get that without a binary tree`
`08:08.04`	`learner`	`cap: where?`
`08:09.23`	`learner`	`and is what time are you talking about?`
`08:09.29`	`learner`	`insertion, lookup, deletion?`
`08:11.40`	`learner`	`lookups are easily O(1) with hash tables, insertion are more, amortized cost can be very good`
`08:13.43`	`captain_proton`	`hash tables are not O(1)`
`08:13.47`	`captain_proton`	`they're O(almost 1)`
`08:13.57`	`captain_proton`	`learner: ansi`
`08:14.36`	`learner`	`indeed`
`08:15.08`	`learner`	`though, metric-wise O(1+c) is still O(1)`
`08:15.32`	`learner`	`even for large c`
`08:16.18`	`captain_proton`	`not really`
`08:16.25`	`captain_proton`	`because C isn't constant time`
`08:16.25`	`learner`	`really`
`08:16.43`	`learner`	`I'm referring to "big-Oh" notation`
`08:16.53`	`learner`	`you only care aboue magnitudes`
`08:17.37`	`captain_proton`	`O(1) implies constant time across n`
`08:17.45`	`captain_proton`	`whereas a hash table will not give you constant time`
`08:18.09`	`learner`	`certainly not for large n, sure`
`08:18.26`	`learner`	`it doesn't approach O(n), though`
`08:18.32`	`captain_proton`	`so when people say O(1), they really mean O(n) ;)`
`08:18.34`	`learner`	`or even O(logn)`
`08:18.48`	`learner`	`noooo...`
`08:19.44`	`learner`	`O(n) is would be a linear lookup -- even if you had a huge hash with millions of entries you are going to get near instant lookup times`
`08:20.24`	`captain_proton`	`which is true`
`08:20.29`	`captain_proton`	`because the coefficient is so small`
`08:20.32`	`learner`	`your only "almost" since you're bound to have hash key collisions and there will be extra keys in your bin that you will have to serach`
`08:21.14`	`learner`	`but that number is very very small, compared to the capacity of the hash`
`08:21.26`	`learner`	`anyhow .. :)`
`08:22.03`	`learner`	`heh`
`08:22.21`	`captain_proton`	`hmm...tea...`
`08:23.58`	`learner`	`eep`
`08:24.44`	`captain_proton`	`the 56k is killing me :(`
`08:25.32`	`learner`	`I can't stand 56k any more -- heck I can't really stand cable most of the time`
`08:35.54`	`captain_proton`	`oog, lots of dependencies`
`08:36.32`	`learner`	`from a closet?`
`08:36.54`	`captain_proton`	`nono, 'emerge' is the package system`
`08:37.02`	`captain_proton`	`rather, the command to install stuff`
`08:37.05`	`learner`	`hehe`
`08:42.21`	`MrApathyCream`	`~fishslap learner`
`08:42.22`		`ACTION slaps learner up side the head with a wet fish.`
`08:42.27`	`CIA`	`03dbrosius * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (2 files): shots reflect off the ground now`
`08:42.55`	`MrApathyCream`	`captain_proton, care to check my logic in ShotStrategy for ground reflection?`
`08:43.01`	`MrApathyCream`	`seems to work, but.....`
`08:43.21`	`captain_proton`	`but?`
`08:43.37`	`MrApathyCream`	`perhaps i am doing something wrong, or making bad assumptions?`
`08:46.27`	`captain_proton`	`MrApathyCream: what did you have the 'min' parameter for?`
`08:46.38`	`MrApathyCream`	`cause that's what all the other ones had`
`08:46.47`	`MrApathyCream`	`getFirstBuilding, getFirstTeleporter`
`08:46.47`	`captain_proton`	`k`
`08:47.16`	`MrApathyCream`	`i guess i should check for that too`
`08:47.22`	`MrApathyCream`	`if groundT > min`
`08:47.30`	`CIA`	`03brlcad * 12bzflag/include (WordFilter.h): added isPrintable helper func`
`08:47.30`	`MrApathyCream`	`at least that's what the others do....`
`08:47.47`	`captain_proton`	`i'm gonna remove the name for now so it builds on the "secondary platform" with debug`
`08:48.27`	`CIA`	`03davidtrowbridge * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (ShotStrategy.cxx): remove unused parameter`
`08:48.58`	`learner`	`ah.. conflict .. hehe`
`08:50.37`	`captain_proton`	`sound goes all wonky when it ricos vertically`
`08:50.49`	`MrApathyCream`	`really?`
`08:51.11`	`captain_proton`	`and it doesn't always rico the correct direction`
`08:51.53`	`captain_proton`	`you didn't add a sound, did you?`
`08:52.02`	`MrApathyCream`	`no`
`08:52.17`	`CIA`	`03dbrosius * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (ShotStrategy.cxx): respect min value for collisions`
`08:52.33`	`MrApathyCream`	`bad bounce in terms of x/y?`
`08:52.44`	`captain_proton`	`sometimes`
`08:52.52`	`captain_proton`	`seems it also doesn't reliably reflect down off boxes`
`08:54.41`	`MrApathyCream`	`math requires exact collision`
`08:54.46`	`MrApathyCream`	`probably should ease up on it`
`08:54.55`	`captain_proton`	`...exact collision?`
`08:55.06`	`MrApathyCream`	`do we have a fudge factor defined already?`
`08:55.19`	`MrApathyCream`	`z must == bottom of building, exactly`
`08:55.36`	`captain_proton`	`huh...`
`08:55.59`	`captain_proton`	`isn't the shot path pre-built in SegmentedShotStrategy?`
`08:56.24`	`MrApathyCream`	`yes, as part of that see BoxBuilding::getNormal`
`08:56.47`	`captain_proton`	`so how would that be un-exact?`
`08:56.51`	`captain_proton`	`doesn't it use ray intersections?`
`08:57.25`	`MrApathyCream`	`yes`
`08:57.38`	`MrApathyCream`	`maybe i'll throw Epsilon error in there`
`08:58.02`	`captain_proton`	`hrm`
`08:58.45`	`captain_proton`	`i'd suggest just making timeRayHitsBlock do its thing`
`08:59.02`	`MrApathyCream`	`captain_proton, timeray doesn't do z`
`08:59.04`	`captain_proton`	`err`
`08:59.17`	`captain_proton`	`so -make- it do z`
`08:59.29`	`captain_proton`	`rather than adding special cases`
`09:03.17`	`CIA`	`03dbrosius * 12bzflag/src/obstacle (BoxBuilding.cxx): make z bouncing less error prone`
`09:03.38`	`MrApathyCream`	`gag, it's 5 am, gotta go`
`09:13.59`	`CIA`	`03davidtrowbridge * 12bzflag/ (2 files): stuff`
`09:14.38`	`captain_proton`	`ph34r my informative commit messages`
`09:14.44`	`captain_proton`	`and on that note, i do believe its naptime`
`09:15.11`	`scanline`	`g'night captain_proton`
`09:16.41`	`learner`	`g'night cap`
`09:21.13`	`*** join/#bzflag MrCooper (~daenzer@dclient80-218-118-173.hispeed.ch)`
`09:42.35`	`learner`	`woo hoo -- everything compiling and working as expected`
`10:20.57`	`*** join/#bzflag larsl (~larsl@c213-100-62-55.swipnet.se)`
`10:56.27`	`*** join/#bzflag [dmp] (~dennis@D40A3023.rev.stofanet.dk)`
`11:44.25`	`*** join/#bzflag Chikorita (Chikorita@AC98F5A6.ipt.aol.com)`
`11:53.25`	`Chikorita`	`~d`
`11:53.53`	`Chikorita`	`ibot: botsnack`
`11:53.53`		`Chikorita: :)`
`12:12.12`	`*** join/#bzflag Chikorita (Chikorita@AC98F5A6.ipt.aol.com)`
`12:16.31`	`larsl`	`~glasstowers`
`12:16.38`	`larsl`	`~glasstowers-hx2`
`12:26.34`	`*** join/#bzflag Quol (~Quol@modemcable052.11-203-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca)`
`12:26.52`	`Quol`	`hello all`
`12:27.05`	`Quol`	`larsl, you there?`
`12:27.51`	`Chestal`	`tag`
`12:28.05`	`Quol`	`just in case you are, I noticed a couple things about bzadmin17 version 5`
`12:29.01`	`Quol`	`I get all sorts of warnings and errors when I cmopile it, but when I apply te missing ine to the version 4 source, no errors are encountered.`
`12:29.49`	`Quol`	`so I don't know if you used a newer source than version 4 and maybe you didn't mean to release it in versionm 5? just thought it was worth mentioning.`
`12:31.00`	`Chikorita`	`good morning Q , guten tag Chestal`
`12:32.06`	`Chikorita`	`~d`
`12:32.11`	`Quol`	`hey Chikorita`
`12:32.36`	`Chikorita`	`~glasstowers`
`12:33.28`	`Chikorita`	`hmm i should say ...guten morgen`
`12:35.22`	`Chikorita`	`2 years of german in high skool ...i forgotten most of wut i learned :P`
`12:35.27`	`Chestal`	`already afternoon here`
`12:35.43`	`Chestal`	`so, 'Guten Tag' would be appropriate`
`12:35.56`	`Chikorita`	`o okies heehe yay`
`12:38.30`	`Chikorita`	`sooooooooo`
`12:38.33`	`Chikorita`	`umm`
`12:39.45`	`Chikorita`	`-.-`
`12:41.43`	`*** join/#bzflag bzgirl (~orchid@ottawa-hs-64-26-167-231.d-ip.magma.ca)`
`12:44.15`	`[dmp]`	`Anyone know how old "Cell" is?`
`12:45.30`	`Chestal`	`not really, my guess would be that he is in his twenties`
`12:47.39`	`bzgirl`	`its Steve Guttenberg's birthday today :)`
`12:48.18`	`[dmp]`	`Who is he?`
`12:48.31`	`bzgirl`	`a bad actor`
`12:48.43`	`[dmp]`	`Oh. I belived he (cell) was much younger.`
`12:49.00`	`[dmp]`	`Ah, guess i didnt miss anything then :)`
`12:49.23`	`bzgirl`	`was cell on ducati the other day? i saw a blue observer called cell, wasnt sure it was him tho`
`12:50.16`	`[dmp]`	`He was playing some yesterday night.`
`12:50.44`	`[dmp]`	`Telling everyone how good he was, except when he actually played, he was the "worst" player.`
`12:51.24`	`[dmp]`	`So he just said there and told that he woundlt play with/against head, craxy because they werent good enough. (bascially)`
`12:53.38`	`[dmp]`	`I just throught it was funny; it bitch about people that have no skills. When he finally joins he ends up with the lowest score.. Rejoins as observer and keep telling everbody how good he is. .. Joins again (later) and get does poorly, and leave because shots goes trough me. (Which isnt true, as his shots was easy to dodge, so i was miles away.. ) ..`
`12:53.47`	`[dmp]`	`Kinda figured that he was a young teenager :)`
`13:04.20`	`larsl`	`Quol: Here now.`
`13:04.29`	`larsl`	`What kind of warnings did you get?`
`13:05.56`	`larsl`	`Quol: I added -ansi -pedantic -Wall to the g++ options in the Makefile, it seems to generate a lot of warnings when parsing the bzflag header files. It compiled OK for me though.`
`13:07.00`	`larsl`	`Does it build with warnings, or doesn't it build at all?`
`13:19.13`	`*** join/#bzflag BaDiN (Paramount@81.193.1.153)`
`13:19.16`	`BaDiN`	`ol�!`
`13:19.21`	`BaDiN`	`any teams to play against bips?`
`13:19.27`	`BaDiN`	`chestal?`
`13:19.30`	`BaDiN`	`bzgirl?`
`13:19.31`	`BaDiN`	`anyone?`
`13:19.40`	`BaDiN`	`learner?`
`13:20.28`	`Quol`	`lol BaDiN - you seen faris bulars day off? - Bular, Bular..`
`13:20.54`	`BaDiN`	`:)`
`13:21.14`	`BaDiN`	`well...`
`13:21.16`	`BaDiN`	`guess nto`
`13:21.17`	`BaDiN`	`not`
`13:21.19`	`BaDiN`	`cya then :)`
`13:27.46`	`*** join/#bzflag BaDiN (Paramount@81.193.1.153)`
`13:27.50`	`BaDiN`	`ol� again :)`
`13:27.53`	`BaDiN`	`i just need one player, now`
`13:27.56`	`BaDiN`	`for a practice match`
`13:27.59`	`BaDiN`	`quol, wanna come?`
`13:28.00`	`BaDiN`	`ahhhhhhhhh`
`13:28.02`	`BaDiN`	`he's away`
`13:28.03`	`BaDiN`	`lol`
`13:28.20`	`BaDiN`	`anyone?`
`13:58.40`	`*** join/#bzflag tea\|tree_ (~tea\|tree@pD9E9591E.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`13:58.47`	`tea\|tree_`	`hello im back`
`13:58.49`	`tea\|tree_`	`^^`
`14:19.53`	`*** part/#bzflag [dmp] (~dennis@D40A3023.rev.stofanet.dk)`
`15:11.25`	`*** join/#bzflag [dmp] (~dennis@D40A3023.rev.stofanet.dk)`
`15:25.02`	`*** part/#bzflag [dmp] (~dennis@D40A3023.rev.stofanet.dk)`
`15:34.19`	`*** join/#bzflag bryjen (1000@ky-owensboro1a-242.owboky.adelphia.net)`
`15:54.51`	`*** join/#bzflag MrApathyCream (MAC@balt-209-163-100-84.qis-dynamic-dialup.coretel.net)`
`16:05.35`	`*** join/#bzflag eddienull (~kevin@adsl-67-126-217-196.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net)`
`16:11.11`	`*** join/#bzflag KTL_ (~KTL@scotty.kulnet.kuleuven.ac.be)`
`16:29.06`	`*** join/#bzflag sussudio (Suss@81.68.133.229)`
`16:30.00`	`sussudio`	`if anyone has admin on xmission or cares at all what happens on that server, at the moment there's a jerk with the callsign "TK Boys Revenge" tk'ing and rejoining after the fact, over and over again. His IP is 68.194.230.50`
`16:30.42`	`*** join/#bzflag [dmp] (~dennis@D40A3023.rev.stofanet.dk)`
`16:31.08`	`sussudio`	`or did anyone stop caring about xmission ages ago anyway? i tried emailing tim but that didnt seem to help much either`
`16:36.11`	`larsl_tv`	`A lot of people care, but there are not many admins.`
`16:37.12`	`sussudio`	`maybe someone should write a 'special admin client' that sends a shot without a known sender to jerks.`
`16:42.10`	`larsl_tv`	`There is really no substitute for active admins.`
`16:50.10`	`sussudio`	`yeah, but not like the lowlifes that have admin on hashmark......`
`16:50.37`	`sussudio`	`there's this one jerk, uses, amongst others, the callsigns 'sinep' (turn it around :-P) and 'vaginator' that will kick you when you kill him too much.....`
`17:03.17`	`*** join/#bzflag JBDiGriz (~JBDiGriz@adsl-63-204-118-194.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net)`
`17:44.45`	`*** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~jeffm@adsl-64-172-196-241.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net)`
`17:44.45`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ`
`17:48.02`	`bryjen`	`~xmission`
`18:19.37`	`*** join/#bzflag niksie (~nkist@3eea1789.cable.wanadoo.nl)`
`18:23.38`	`learner`	`does anyone know approximately how fast the bzfs run loop is? i.e. how many iterations/second`
`18:23.57`	`Patlabor221`	`I think it's as fast as it can`
`18:24.08`	`Patlabor221`	`since the sleep commands were commented out`
`18:24.16`	`niksie`	`wouldn't that mess things up?`
`18:24.26`	`scanline`	`you sure it doesn't select()?`
`18:24.35`	`Patlabor221`	`no I'm not sure`
`18:24.46`	`Patlabor221`	`but I did see usleep(1) commented out`
`18:25.00`	`scanline`	`yeah, it uses select()`
`18:25.12`	`Patlabor221`	`what does that do?`
`18:25.26`	`scanline`	`sleeps until either a timeout or there's activity on any of its sockets`
`18:25.32`	`Patlabor221`	`ahhh`
`18:25.34`	`learner`	`select will make it wait for network communictaion`
`18:25.39`	`scanline`	`and it's calculating a timeout according to TimeKeeper...`
`18:25.42`	`scanline`	`so there's no fixed iteration time`
`18:25.49`	`Chikorita`	`o.-`
`18:25.52`	`Patlabor221`	`so not good for what learner wants`
`18:26.00`	`Chikorita`	`did sum1 say sleep?`
`18:26.06`	`Chikorita`	`-.-`
`18:27.50`	`learner`	`hmm`
`18:28.38`	`learner`	`it would seem like i should be able to expect maybe something on an order of magnitude less than 100`
`18:29.37`	`Patlabor221`	`what is the select timeout?`
`18:31.14`	`learner`	`not positive, but it looks like it's set to the lowest lag`
`18:31.42`	`Patlabor221`	`how does it know the lowest lag?`
`18:31.44`	`learner`	`hence, i should see dozens or so updates a sec`
`18:31.47`	`Patlabor221`	`from the last ping?`
`18:31.51`	`learner`	`yea`
`18:34.01`	`learner`	`that's close enough good enough for me -- i just needed to know whether it was 100's or 100,000's`
`18:34.23`	`*** join/#bzflag strayer (~strayer@p509117EF.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`18:34.25`	`scanline`	`where are you seeing that?`
`18:34.49`	`scanline`	`it's calculating the timeout by asking TimeKeeper for the amount of time until the next timer expires AFAICT`
`18:34.51`	`learner`	`the select call is src/bzfs.cxx:7016`
`18:35.13`	`scanline`	`right, I found the select call..`
`18:35.21`	`[dmp]`	`hi strayer`
`18:35.48`	`strayer`	`hi [dmp] :)`
`18:35.58`	`scanline`	`hmm, it's on 6603 here though...`
`18:36.19`	`learner`	`Oooh.. yea`
`18:36.25`	`learner`	`I have a big patch in there`
`18:36.28`	`learner`	`forgot about that`
`18:37.16`	`scanline`	`still, it's calculating the timeout using TimeKeeper.`
`18:37.20`	`scanline`	`what's this for?`
`18:38.20`	`niksie`	`you have to have some files that are created by the installer`
`18:38.26`	`niksie`	`oops, mischan`
`18:38.27`	`*** part/#bzflag niksie (~nkist@3eea1789.cable.wanadoo.nl)`
`18:39.07`	`learner`	`scanline: where are you reading? there's are timekeepers used to track a lot of other events it seems`
`18:39.13`	`learner`	`like if a flag is drapping`
`18:39.51`	`learner`	`getCurrent() looks like it behaves like a gettimeofday call -- getting the current game "tick"`
`18:39.56`	`scanline`	`ok.. there are two select calls I see`
`18:40.05`	`scanline`	`one on 1828 that's only used during shutdown`
`18:40.17`	`scanline`	`then the main one on 6618`
`18:40.22`	`learner`	`yes`
`18:40.34`	`scanline`	`struct timeval timeout gets filled using waitTime`
`18:41.03`	`scanline`	`waitTime is calculated above there... suppose all that does is handle flag drops`
`18:41.11`	`scanline`	`ah, and lag pings`
`18:41.16`	`scanline`	`but that's all`
`18:41.40`	`scanline`	`anyway, what's this for?`
`18:41.40`	`larsl_tv`	`Ack, ServerLink.cxx has linking dependencies on Player.cxx. =P`
`18:42.04`	`learner`	`right, it looks like the lagpings will overwrite the flagdrop waittime..`
`18:42.25`	`scanline`	`only if they're smaller...`
`18:42.44`	`scanline`	`waittime will be the amount of time until the soonest event that it needs to wake up for`
`18:42.53`	`learner`	`ah yes.. so it takes the smallest delta`
`18:42.58`	`learner`	`makes sense`
`18:44.40`	`learner`	`ah, i need to kick off an event after X seconds`
`18:45.12`	`learner`	`but i don't want to be checking the clock every loop iteration`
`18:45.20`	`learner`	`every second or so is good enough`
`18:45.23`	`scanline`	`why not?`
`18:45.47`	`scanline`	`it's a very cheap operation`
`18:46.53`	`scanline`	`it's not like the main loop is in the innermost cracks of a rasterizer and needs every CPU cycle it can get, it gets called at most once per incoming packet`
`18:47.07`	`scanline`	`and per expired timer`
`18:47.29`	`learner`	`perhaps`
`18:47.56`	`scanline`	`premature optimization is always a bad thing`
`18:48.07`	`Patlabor221`	`hell if you don't check it every time, what ever timer callback func you call is gonna check it often anyway :)`
`18:48.09`	`scanline`	`if it causes any noticeable change in CPU usage, make it check less frequently`
`18:48.28`	`learner`	`i'm not optimizing -- i'm trying to figure out where it goes ;)`
`18:48.40`	`scanline`	`just add it the same way flag drops are handles`
`18:48.43`	`scanline`	`er, handled`
`18:48.46`	`learner`	`and understanding the current loop in the meantime`
`18:49.05`	`Patlabor221`	`or end games`
`18:49.07`	`scanline`	`the way bzfs handles sockets and timeouts is pretty standard, though it would be nice if that code were more generalized`
`18:49.08`	`Patlabor221`	`how are they handeld`
`18:49.18`	`Patlabor221`	`that's very simlar to what you are wanting to do`
`18:56.40`	`sussudio`	`~eat kazaa`
`18:56.41`		`ACTION eats kazaa and falls over dead`
`18:59.23`	`*** join/#bzflag Chikorita (Chikorita@AC9BB4CF.ipt.aol.com)`
`18:59.38`	`*** join/#bzflag theanit-linux (~Patlabor2@adsl-64-172-196-241.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net)`
`19:01.34`	`learner`	`heh, what's that?`
`19:01.54`	`PatlaborRH9`	`P2P app`
`19:02.12`	`PatlaborRH9`	`and a spyware platform`
`19:02.59`	`larsl_tv`	`Is bzfs supposed to print "checking callsign: ..." even without -d switches?`
`19:04.57`	`doughecka`	`kazaa lite doesnt have spyware :)`
`19:05.14`	`PatlaborRH9`	`it does`
`19:05.17`	`PatlaborRH9`	`it just has less of it`
`19:05.43`	`PatlaborRH9`	`one of the spyware DLLs is a core part of it`
`19:06.15`	`doughecka`	`ah`
`19:06.20`	`bryjen`	`and it uses cout to print that. i thought printf was preferred`
`19:08.54`	`PatlaborRH9`	`what do the coding docs/ the bzflag bible say?`
`19:11.00`	`PatlaborRH9`	`like?`
`19:11.02`	`larsl`	`KTL_: Emacs. =)`
`19:11.33`	`learner`	`M-x tutorial`
`19:11.56`	`KTL_`	`ok, i need a 3d editor and not a text editor yes:-)`
`19:12.04`	`KTL_`	`and not emacs`
`19:12.32`	`PatlaborRH9`	`what version of bzedit are you using? linux or windows?`
`19:12.34`	`KTL_`	`some people marry with emacs i think`
`19:12.43`	`KTL_`	`linux 2.1 and crashing all the time`
`19:12.56`	`KTL_`	`seams the 2.1 bzedit is not much`
`19:12.58`	`bryjen`	`Eh. no mention and several other uses. (only 1 in bzfs) I just remembered a CVS item once replacing cout's with printf's.`
`19:12.58`	`PatlaborRH9`	`you can try the windows one with wine`
`19:13.10`	`KTL_`	`can wine do the opengl?`
`19:13.14`	`larsl`	`KTL_: The Windows version with Wine is usually more stable.`
`19:13.47`	`larsl`	`Does BZEdit use OpenGL?`
`19:13.51`	`PatlaborRH9`	`yes`
`19:14.19`	`larsl`	`Wow, I didn't even notice when I tried it. I guess Wine handled it pretty good. =)`
`19:14.29`	`PatlaborRH9`	`there is a set of DLLs you need, they are on the bzedit w32 site`
`19:14.38`	`PatlaborRH9`	`it dosn't use MUCH gl`
`19:15.01`	`scanline`	`wine really doesn't have any work to do with OpenGL.. it's all standardized. DirectX is the hard one`
`19:15.42`	`PatlaborRH9`	`someone should try to build the windows version with winelib`
`19:15.57`	`larsl`	`Is the network protocol going to change again any time soon?`
`19:16.22`	`scanline`	`larsl: probably...`
`19:16.30`	`larsl`	`Oh well. =)`
`19:21.53`	`sussudio`	`well kazaalite doesnt differ from kazaa that much..... it still takes about a month to download something`
`19:22.00`	`sussudio`	`http://home.wanadoo.nl/sussudio/snort.png`
`19:22.23`	`KTL_`	`(i can't reach artemisgames since months i believe)`
`19:22.51`	`sussudio`	`KTL_: are you admin on hashmark?`
`19:23.22`	`KTL_`	`sussudio: no, i wish i was, then i could kick sinep back`
`19:23.25`	`PatlaborRH9`	`the domain was down a whileago`
`19:23.30`	`PatlaborRH9`	`it should be back now`
`19:23.30`	`sussudio`	`KTL_: exactly`
`19:23.38`	`sussudio`	`sinep is a dork`
`19:23.47`	`sussudio`	`he uses the callsign "vaginator" too`
`19:24.01`	`KTL_`	`ah, never seen e vaginator:-) would remember that`
`19:24.13`	`KTL_`	`i know he didn't like me pauzed with 100 score`
`19:24.23`	`sussudio`	`well i got his ip..... it's on machlink.com`
`19:24.51`	`sussudio`	`i've seen people use disgusting callsigns on hashmark a lot, i think it's mostly sinep`
`19:25.23`	`KTL_`	`mmm but he is a strong player... and these strange names are most of all low players`
`19:25.51`	`sussudio`	`a wrote a bunch of them down`
`19:25.58`	`KTL_`	`lol:-)`
`19:26.15`	`sussudio`	`like numbersdork in japan......`
`19:26.20`	`KTL_`	`never seen`
`19:26.31`	`sussudio`	`he comes on with callsigns like 2934890343`
`19:27.09`	`KTL_`	`bwa, it's not a real prob, if he kicks everybody that would be a prob, but in that he still is selecting`
`19:27.15`	`sussudio`	`or spoogebob with 65.71.64.191`
`19:27.26`	`KTL_`	`ah spoogebob, played against that one`
`19:27.37`	`KTL_`	`how do you get the ip's?:-)`
`19:27.41`	`KTL_`	`stibnite?`
`19:27.45`	`sussudio`	`or the dorkster family on intermip.... 65.25.254.66`
`19:27.58`	`sussudio`	`dad, son and daughter play on there.....`
`19:28.07`	`sussudio`	`son and daughter use the fly cheat`
`19:28.15`	`KTL_`	`lol it's a family`
`19:28.22`	`sussudio`	`neh, the ip's are there all the time, they're just hidden in the regular client`
`19:28.43`	`KTL_`	`:-) never thought about getting them out of the client`
`19:29.22`	`bryjen`	`<PROTECTED>`
`19:29.29`	`KTL_`	`where is that bzedit then? if artemis is down then ...`
`19:30.04`	`PatlaborRH9`	`artemis is NOT down I said`
`19:30.14`	`PatlaborRH9`	`it was down for like 3 days`
`19:30.19`	`PatlaborRH9`	`but that was months ago`
`19:30.24`	`PatlaborRH9`	`http://www.artemisgames.com/bzedit/`
`19:30.25`	`KTL_`	`euhm, strange`
`19:30.34`	`PatlaborRH9`	`I just went there fine`
`19:30.35`	`sussudio`	`aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah`
`19:30.40`	`sussudio`	`640x480 HURTS on a 21" monitor`
`19:31.00`	`KTL_`	`lol`
`19:31.37`	`sussudio`	`it's like sitting too close to the tv`
`19:31.38`	`KTL_`	`(my first attempt was a failure, now it works idd)`
`19:32.03`	`sussudio`	`http://home.wanadoo.nl/sussudio/ips.png`
`19:33.00`	`KTL_`	`niiiiceeeeee`
`19:33.11`	`sussudio`	`yup`
`19:33.13`	`KTL_`	`tux shadow joe`
`19:33.33`	`sussudio`	`hm?`
`19:34.07`	`KTL_`	`players i play against, a lot`
`19:34.21`	`sussudio`	`k`
`19:34.23`	`KTL_`	`<PROTECTED>`
`19:34.53`	`sussudio`	`i think the display of ip's slows down my client though`
`19:35.09`	`KTL_`	`just a bit more of graphics`
`19:35.22`	`sussudio`	`i don't know, it might be polling for them`
`19:35.48`	`KTL_`	`i heard it would make a difference if the matrices for the 3d models would be gigen too opengl as big arrays`
`19:36.13`	`KTL_`	`instead of the vertex per vertex call to opengl`
`19:36.23`	`KTL_`	`s/gigen/given/`
`19:36.40`	`sussudio`	`i think they removed a lot of redundant stuff being sent in 1.9`
`19:37.07`	`PatlaborRH9`	`BZ does use lists for what it can`
`19:37.21`	`PatlaborRH9`	`BZ is not pushing the graphics pipe of many modern cards`
`19:38.50`	`sussudio`	`so what makes maps with 1000 boxes crawl? cpu?`
`19:39.04`	`PatlaborRH9`	`the vis sort`
`19:39.07`	`PatlaborRH9`	`so yeah CPU`
`19:39.11`	`sussudio`	`mkay`
`19:39.14`	`KTL_`	`i remeber the file for the tanks, opengl begin opengl end and ea serious amount of calls between them, i've recently seen how others do it, nice big matrices given in on call`
`19:39.30`	`PatlaborRH9`	`KTL those calls are put in a list`
`19:39.37`	`PatlaborRH9`	`that basicly makes it a matrix`
`19:39.54`	`*** join/#bzflag fiberchunks_ (~mike@237.14.252.64.snet.net)`
`19:39.58`	`fiberchunks_`	`allo`
`19:40.01`	`PatlaborRH9`	`the glbegin stuff is only called once`
`19:40.04`	`PatlaborRH9`	`when the list is made`
`19:40.14`	`PatlaborRH9`	`after that it's just glDrawList();`
`19:40.20`	`sussudio`	`lo porkchunks`
`19:40.47`	`KTL_`	`they do it this way:`
`19:40.49`	`KTL_`	`static GLfloat mesh9[MESH9_SIZE][6][3] = {`
`19:40.49`	`KTL_`	`{ {0.188038,0.243392,0.03}, {-0,-0,-1}, {0.197164,0.232505,0.03}, {-0,-0,-1}, {0.203246,0.213184,0.03}, {-0,-0,-1} },`
`19:40.51`	`PatlaborRH9`	`the problem is that every world object is tested against the frustum for vis`
`19:40.57`	`PatlaborRH9`	`yes I know KTL`
`19:40.59`	`KTL_`	`and a lot of lines beneath that`
`19:41.09`	`PatlaborRH9`	`it's just a difrent way of storing the data`
`19:41.22`	`learner`	`howdy, fiber`
`19:41.26`	`PatlaborRH9`	`in a list, the card will put the data in the most optimal format for the card`
`19:41.40`	`PatlaborRH9`	`your describing vertex arays`
`19:42.18`	`PatlaborRH9`	`if the data dosn't change it's best to put it in a list`
`19:42.26`	`PatlaborRH9`	`so you don't send it to the card every time you draw`
`19:42.45`	`PatlaborRH9`	`if they are calling the array func every frame, they are slower then a list.`
`19:43.08`	`PatlaborRH9`	`on a card that does hardware transforms that is`
`19:44.03`	`PatlaborRH9`	`and actualy for the BZ static data it's optimised into strips and fans so it would be better then an array`
`19:44.08`	`fiberchunks_`	`allo learner`
`19:44.13`	`PatlaborRH9`	`sup fiba`
`19:44.32`	`fiberchunks_`	`heya pat`
`19:44.40`	`KTL_`	`:-)-`
`19:45.04`	`PatlaborRH9`	`vertex arays are nice for data that changes`
`19:45.08`	`sussudio`	`yay. ati tv is buggered again..........`
`19:47.12`	`fiberchunks_`	`this movie is such a p.o.s.`
`19:47.42`	`PatlaborRH9`	`what one?`
`19:47.49`	`fiberchunks_`	`the quick and the dead`
`19:48.09`	`fiberchunks_`	`I am amazed that gene hackman is in it`
`19:49.56`	`bryjen`	`has somebody been tinkering with the sound recently?`
`19:50.48`	`*** join/#bzflag JBDiGriz (~JBDiGriz@adsl-63-204-118-194.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net)`
`19:50.51`	`larsl`	`What's that command that monitors a file and prints the contents while it changes?`
`19:51.02`	`JBDiGriz`	`tail -f ?`
`19:51.16`	`larsl`	`That's it, thanks.`
`19:52.30`	`tea\|tree_`	`hello`
`19:54.04`	`learner`	`jb: found out something rather interesting yesterday`
`19:54.12`	`JBDiGriz`	`Yes?`
`19:54.21`	`learner`	`remember me complaining about all the keybinding issues I've been having?`
`19:54.37`	`JBDiGriz`	`I've been complaining about keys in 1.9 as well`
`19:54.53`	`learner`	`i couldn't even join a game or chat`
`19:55.02`	`larsl`	`Did someone reverse the radar zoom keys?`
`19:55.33`	`learner`	`changing them on the key manager menu was also very troublesome`
`19:56.13`	`learner`	`the problems almost completely go away when I use project builder to build the client..`
`19:56.35`	`learner`	`(i had been using my auto-generated build via make)`
`19:58.34`	`JBDiGriz`	`Different compiler?`
`19:59.05`	`learner`	`nope, pretty sure`
`19:59.52`	`learner`	`very odd..`
`20:00.17`	`learner`	`bzemacs?`
`20:00.49`	`learner`	`M-x bzedit-mode`
`20:00.50`	`KTL_`	`(to make a map, bzedit runs with wine, but i really don't like it)`
`20:00.51`	`learner`	`:)`
`20:01.12`	`PatlaborRH9`	`so fix the linux editor`
`20:01.18`	`learner`	`have you tried the linux version?`
`20:01.19`	`PatlaborRH9`	`or port the windows one :)`
`20:01.34`	`KTL_`	`they are from the same level`
`20:01.53`	`KTL_`	`maybe... now i finally have a good wine... autocad with wine?:-)`
`20:02.11`	`PatlaborRH9`	`they only share a bit of common code`
`20:02.39`	`KTL_`	`but for example: these groups of obstacles, that's still pending`
`20:03.15`	`PatlaborRH9`	`yeah all that's really waiting on that is a change to the selection mechanism to allow multiple slelctions`
`20:03.19`	`KTL_`	`i'm not going to fix it, no time, and i want to do a bot, after some weeks`
`20:08.14`	`*** join/#bzflag BaDiN (Paramount@81.193.34.13)`
`20:08.15`	`BaDiN`	`ol�`
`20:08.25`	`learner`	`ol�`
`20:08.37`	`BaDiN`	`:)`
`20:17.57`	`doughecka`	`macs are cool! :)`
`20:18.26`	`learner`	`okay, so i have click counts on the bzfs main loop ;)`
`20:19.08`	`learner`	`it updates about 2+-2 times/s with one player playing`
`20:19.33`	`learner`	`that seems incredibly low to me :/`
`20:20.09`	`learner`	`but is reasonable/acceptable`
`20:20.54`	`scanline`	`it would depend on how the player is moving`
`20:21.08`	`scanline`	`if the velocity is constant, playerupdates get sent pretty infrequently`
`20:21.12`	`learner`	`hence the +-2`
`20:21.38`	`learner`	`it was 4 ticks/s with high-speed and shots sent around`
`20:21.43`	`scanline`	`eh.. it shouldn't ever go to 0 updates/s, and I would think it gets higher if you're turning erratically`
`20:22.05`	`scanline`	`the high-speed flag doesn't really matter, it's how much the user is controlling the tank`
`20:22.17`	`learner`	`well, it was about 3 ticks per 5 sec when I sat idle killed`
`20:24.31`	`learner`	`go ahead and jump on brlcad.org if you want to see it in action -- update ticks are 5 sec cumulative intervals`
`20:25.17`	`scanline`	`that's alright`
`20:26.20`	`learner`	`;)`
`20:27.22`	`learner`	`yep, it stabilizes to 2 ticks per 5 sec when dead and I was able to kick it up to 99 ticks (20 tick/s) going nuts with the mouse and agility flag`
`20:31.37`	`PatlaborRH9`	`I thought the minimum update was 30 a sec`
`20:33.08`	`*** join/#bzflag sussi (Ralf@217-68-173-54.cable.primacom.net)`
`20:33.20`	`clarion`	`howdy sussi`
`20:34.42`	`BaDiN`	`hi susi`
`20:34.43`	`BaDiN`	`hi sussi`
`20:35.47`	`sussi`	`hi`
`20:37.35`	`brlcad`	`go ahead`
`20:39.07`	`PatlaborRH9`	`couple people have made helper scripts for maps`
`20:40.17`	`KTL_`	`ahahahah????`
`20:40.18`	`KTL_`	`tel`
`20:40.19`	`KTL_`	`:-)`
`20:40.33`	`KTL_`	`in sfsnap maybe? didn't look their`
`20:40.35`	`KTL_`	`there`
`20:40.36`	`PatlaborRH9`	`check patches and bzbb, but I have heard some people talk about them`
`20:40.47`	`PatlaborRH9`	`I have never used them`
`20:45.57`	`brlcad`	`KTL: http://www.shellshock.dutchrai.com/downloads-tools.htm`
`20:46.52`	`brlcad`	`there are some goodies there if you haven't seen that yet`
`20:47.51`	`brlcad`	`do you think it is more useful to specify a minimum required vote via counts or via percentages?`
`20:48.11`	`PatlaborRH9`	`counts can be nasty`
`20:48.13`	`brlcad`	`is 5 players must affirm OR 65% must affirm, etc`
`20:48.22`	`PatlaborRH9`	`cus what if people leave`
`20:48.29`	`PatlaborRH9`	`I'd do percent`
`20:48.32`	`brlcad`	`it's a bzfs option, so the admins will know how many players they will have`
`20:48.42`	`PatlaborRH9`	`no, they don't`
`20:48.55`	`brlcad`	`ah, good point -- never mind ;)`
`20:48.56`	`PatlaborRH9`	`they know max players`
`20:49.00`	`PatlaborRH9`	`not real players`
`20:49.16`	`brlcad`	`dunno what I was thinking`
`20:49.47`	`KTL_`	`his blind ambition has a map totally generated with perl`
`20:50.01`	`PatlaborRH9`	`yeah some people use it for that`
`20:50.32`	`PatlaborRH9`	`anyone here have 3ds MAX or something that will read it's files?`
`21:18.34`	`*** join/#bzflag prodan (~prodan@dial-in211.rz.uni-mannheim.de)`
`21:18.55`	`*** part/#bzflag prodan (~prodan@dial-in211.rz.uni-mannheim.de)`
`21:20.18`	`*** join/#bzflag evil_enchilada (~blardebla@0-1pool61-153.nas23.thornton1.co.us.da.qwest.net)`
`21:25.44`	`Chestal`	`hiho`
`21:25.56`	`Chestal`	`that was a unique movie`
`21:26.23`	`*** join/#bzflag KTL (~KTL@scotty.kulnet.kuleuven.ac.be)`
`21:27.58`	`brlcad`	`chestal: which movie?`
`21:28.07`	`brlcad`	`and did you figure out 4/7? :)`
`21:28.12`	`Chestal`	`brlcad: 'Russian Ark'`
`21:28.16`	`Chestal`	`no :-(`
`21:34.35`	`tea\|tree`	`hello`
`21:35.12`	`tea\|tree`	`~`
`21:35.14`	`tea\|tree`	`~d`
`21:41.51`	`*** join/#bzflag tea\|tree_ (~tea\|tree@pD9E9591E.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`21:42.35`	`brlcad`	`huah!`
`21:42.40`	`brlcad`	`last bit of glue and I'll be done!`
`21:55.16`	`*** join/#bzflag JBDiGriz (~JBDiGriz@adsl-63-204-118-194.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net)`
`21:56.48`	`*** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@host-224-78.dialup.innercite.com)`
`22:21.31`	`brlcad`	`what is the _WIN32 4:4786 warning being quelled?`
`22:21.48`	`brlcad`	`or unquelled`
`22:23.45`	`brlcad`	`never mind -- thank you google`
`22:51.32`	`*** join/#bzflag sussudio (Suss@81.68.133.229)`
`22:52.05`	`sussudio`	`the blue flag is hanging in mid-air on xmission`
`22:52.07`	`sussudio`	`http://home.wanadoo.nl/sussudio/flaginair.png`
`22:56.31`	`brlcad`	`cool`
`22:56.48`	`brlcad`	`can't jump up and reach it?`
`22:56.54`	`sussudio`	`nope.....`
`22:57.03`	`sussudio`	`i think all blue just left and returned it to get it down`
`22:57.22`	`sussudio`	`i don't think you can get flags anyway if they're not on the ground`
`22:57.51`	`brlcad`	`well.. that flag might have thought he was on the ground, though :)`
`23:01.17`	`sussudio`	`~pig kazaa`
`23:01.19`		`''`
`23:01.19`	`scanline`	`~sci-fi du jour`
`23:01.19`		`There seems to be a magneto-ionized tachyon emission field in the construct, ensign travis`
`23:01.19`	`larsl`	`Grr, the blue flag on xmission is dead.`
`23:01.19`	`sussudio`	`hmm it looked like it was on blue base in observer mode`
`23:01.19`	`larsl`	`It is on blue base, but it's dead.`
`23:01.19`	`larsl`	`Not on radar, can't be grabbed.`
`23:03.46`	`KTL`	`the bzw file format...`
`23:04.02`	`KTL`	`can it be that the position uses a different scale then the size?`
`23:04.17`	`larsl`	`KTL: Size is "radius".`
`23:04.33`	`larsl`	`The x side of a box is x size * 2.`
`23:05.48`	`KTL`	`mmm (is my brain segfaulting again?)`
`23:08.02`	`larsl`	`Except for the z size, that is the actual height of the box.`
`23:08.08`	`larsl`	`=)`
`23:09.24`	`KTL`	`size is X Y Z, he the lengts of the sides of the box, and? the position is which point from the box????`
`23:10.16`	`larsl`	`The position is the center of the base rectangle.`
`23:10.31`	`KTL`	`ah... oef`
`23:10.56`	`larsl`	`The x, y, z sizes that you type is how far the box extends in each direction from that point (except downwards).`
`23:11.05`	`KTL`	`aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa`
`23:11.09`	`KTL`	`now i understand`
`23:11.14`	`KTL`	`mmm:-)`
`23:11.15`	`KTL`	`tnx`
`23:20.18`	`*** join/#bzflag BZSpiff (~BZSpiff@12-222-147-141.client.insightBB.com)`
`23:20.30`	`BZSpiff`	`Hey all. :-)`
`23:24.08`	`KTL`	`hey`
`23:27.09`	`*** join/#bzflag Carnage (strayer@dyn216-8-133-193.ADSL.mnsi.net)`
`23:33.20`	`sussudio`	`bah that assmonkey spiff.... he was on a server this week with a cheatclient. i will be watching his IP closely.`
`23:44.09`	`sussudio`	`http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots/gatesmug1.html`
`23:44.10`	`sussudio`	`hah`
`23:51.25`	`brlcad`	`w00t!`
`23:51.30`	`brlcad`	`cmdlineoptions separated`
`23:57.55`	`larsl`	`cmdlineoptions?`

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