| 00:03.33 | captain_proton | is there a way i can examine an object? |
| 00:03.40 | scanline | examine howso? |
| 00:03.56 | captain_proton | find out what functions/members it has, etc |
| 00:04.05 | scanline | print dir(object) |
| 00:04.21 | scanline | or object.__dict__ |
| 00:04.33 | captain_proton | bah |
| 00:04.34 | captain_proton | [] |
| 00:04.42 | scanline | dir() is mostly like .__dict__, but it adds some extra attributes that aren't really in the dict |
| 00:04.57 | scanline | hmm |
| 00:05.34 | scanline | although it it's a SWIG'ed object it probably doesn't support all that introspection stuff properly |
| 00:05.53 | scanline | dir() hardly ever returns nothing at all |
| 00:06.13 | scanline | it returns 51 attributes for the number 5 :) |
| 00:08.04 | captain_proton | <SelectBuffer object at 0x842d7a8> <-- super helpful |
| 00:08.16 | scanline | is there a way to set the RGB from the current color, leaving the alpha alone? |
| 00:08.31 | scanline | s/from/for/ |
| 00:08.40 | captain_proton | yep, thats what 3f is for |
| 00:08.52 | scanline | ok, guess I'm just doing something wrong |
| 00:11.59 | scanline | doh.. |
| 00:12.08 | scanline | "glColor3 variants specify new red, green, and blue values explicitly and set the current alpha value to 1.0 (full intensity) implicitly." |
| 00:13.38 | scanline | guess I'll need separate display lists for each color |
| 00:13.53 | scanline | not too bad, considering so far that's just teleporters then everything else |
| 00:15.27 | captain_proton | what exactly are you working on? |
| 00:15.32 | scanline | radar |
| 00:16.00 | scanline | making it use display lists for a set of Z layers |
| 00:17.19 | captain_proton | ahh |
| 00:17.43 | scanline | I have it running a lot faster, just need to get the enhanced radar back :) |
| 00:18.06 | captain_proton | yay for display lists being cheap |
| 00:18.12 | scanline | yep |
| 00:37.32 | scanline | er, server |
| 00:37.39 | scanline | want to commit my new radar darnit! |
| 00:37.56 | fiberchunks | sf's cvs responds with a backcourt volley ;) |
| 00:38.09 | scanline | oh no! |
| 00:39.58 | fiberchunks | ~google for optik |
| 00:41.20 | fiberchunks | wow, that's a nifty little module too |
| 00:41.27 | scanline | indeedy |
| 00:42.13 | fiberchunks | very little voodoo for very much handling -- the way all things should be |
| 00:42.14 | fiberchunks | :) |
| 00:44.48 | captain_proton | hrm...strange |
| 00:45.08 | captain_proton | i'm only seeing pyramids in the select buffer when there's something else in front of them |
| 00:46.20 | *** join/#bzflag JBDiGriz (~JBDiGriz@adsl-63-204-118-6.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net) |
| 00:48.18 | fiberchunks | wow, that's pretty cool, galeon 1.3.5 does location bar completion on things not in it's history buffer, like a file:///blah/blah/blah thing |
| 00:48.53 | *** join/#bzflag iLLf8d (~neener@user-0can1b0.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 00:50.12 | iLLf8d | for any dev listening a nice feature would be for ppls w/out soundcards to get a more prominent gm warning visually and or, while gm lock they get quickturn (i've been playing without sond cause i've been lazy tho I realized how boned ppls can be) I usually turn into the shot notice the gm and have no time to turn away |
| 00:50.21 | iLLf8d | dudes w/out sound need more warning |
| 00:50.26 | iLLf8d | nheh |
| 00:58.07 | scanline | whee.. display lists, plus now the player dots are non-square |
| 00:58.20 | scanline | http://navi.picogui.org/images/bzflag/bzfs_radar.png |
| 00:59.24 | fiberchunks | very cool |
| 00:59.37 | fiberchunks | muffix? ;) |
| 00:59.48 | bzgirl | fiberchunks: |
| 00:59.50 | scanline | it's the 100% muffin-based UNIIX |
| 00:59.55 | scanline | er, UNIX |
| 01:00.07 | fiberchunks | bzgirl: |
| 01:00.26 | bzgirl | fiberchunks: what forum did derv post that first religious thing, that prompted their own forum? |
| 01:00.41 | bzgirl | you remeber, like the original post, was it moved? |
| 01:00.42 | fiberchunks | bzgirl> should be in chat |
| 01:00.48 | fiberchunks | no, I don't think it was |
| 01:00.53 | fiberchunks | but lemme check |
| 01:01.25 | fiberchunks | here it is: http://bzbb.bakadigital.com/viewtopic.php?t=771&sid=45653c772365ad6b6078db3b02791efe |
| 01:02.03 | fiberchunks | well, minux the sid /me thwacks self |
| 01:02.08 | fiberchunks | minus that is |
| 01:02.45 | fiberchunks | oh, wait -- you mean the _original_ thread, or the one where you can join their club? |
| 01:03.01 | bzgirl | sry, was away.. |
| 01:03.36 | bzgirl | the original one where he had the idea of a weekly meeting |
| 01:04.20 | fiberchunks | that is in that christians thread thing |
| 01:04.31 | fiberchunks | err, christians topic, rather |
| 01:04.37 | bzgirl | ah ok |
| 01:07.54 | sussudio | christians are so two milenniums ago. |
| 01:09.28 | *** join/#bzflag andrd (~data@user-0can406.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 01:09.57 | andrd | how can i have a map with all flags but guided missile? i tried just doing -f GM, but that disabled all flags |
| 01:10.29 | bzgirl | do -f for all the others |
| 01:10.39 | bzgirl | and +f for GM |
| 01:11.25 | andrd | i think i want the reverse |
| 01:11.35 | bzgirl | oh sorry! |
| 01:11.40 | andrd | could i do +f good +f bad -f GM? |
| 01:12.02 | andrd | or would that force GM in? |
| 01:13.41 | iLLf8d | roflmao |
| 01:13.44 | iLLf8d | the christian forum |
| 01:13.47 | iLLf8d | that means all the cheats |
| 01:13.50 | iLLf8d | =P |
| 01:14.21 | iLLf8d | seems the religious feel free to cheat when they can see absolution |
| 01:14.41 | iLLf8d | nice to be forgiven by god forget their own conscience |
| 01:15.17 | bzgirl | andrd: ive always assumed -f GM will disable it |
| 01:16.27 | andrd | bzgirl: yeah, but it disabled everything else too |
| 01:17.16 | bzgirl | maybe -f GM and +f the others |
| 01:19.11 | bzgirl | andrd: http://www.shellshock.dutchrai.com/references-bzfscmd.htm |
| 01:20.15 | iLLf8d | whatya trying to do? |
| 01:21.06 | bzgirl | he wants all flags except GM |
| 01:21.47 | iLLf8d | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:21.47 | iLLf8d | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:21.47 | iLLf8d | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:21.47 | iLLf8d | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:21.47 | iLLf8d | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:22.29 | bzgirl | so -f bad GM? |
| 01:22.47 | iLLf8d | -f GM should work |
| 01:22.57 | iLLf8d | if it doesn't he's got a problem somewhere else |
| 01:23.10 | bzgirl | it has on my servers, i had -f GM -f L -f SW |
| 01:23.29 | iLLf8d | yeah maybe its his version tho its been like that since I can remember |
| 01:23.55 | bzgirl | iLLf8d: yo still have lots of maps? |
| 01:24.07 | iLLf8d | I still have the ones I made and I made a few more |
| 01:24.22 | iLLf8d | got one that'll be good tho I gotta make up a progie to finish it |
| 01:24.24 | iLLf8d | altho |
| 01:24.33 | iLLf8d | with the windows bzedit client maybe i'll do it by hand |
| 01:24.51 | iLLf8d | its a gm and laser world |
| 01:24.54 | iLLf8d | should be good |
| 01:25.14 | iLLf8d | pyarmids on the ground accept 4 spawn points |
| 01:25.27 | iLLf8d | and tunnels/buildings on wall and cieling |
| 01:25.55 | iLLf8d | so basically you get on walls or cieling or die right away |
| 01:26.25 | bzgirl | heh |
| 01:26.47 | bzgirl | i know lots about dying right away |
| 01:26.49 | iLLf8d | trying for some different gameplay |
| 01:27.01 | iLLf8d | I'm gonna remake hix to force ctf too |
| 01:27.11 | iLLf8d | then run it here locally |
| 01:27.57 | iLLf8d | gonna speed up movement on the field tho put some working bunkers in to to encourage defense |
| 01:28.27 | iLLf8d | and do away with the drop flag on pyarmids to get it to the center of the field |
| 01:28.32 | iLLf8d | gotta work for it |
| 01:28.33 | iLLf8d | =P |
| 01:29.29 | scanline | http://navi.picogui.org/images/bzflag/bzflag_map.png |
| 01:30.03 | bzgirl | did you use a script for that? |
| 01:30.14 | scanline | in a manner of speaking |
| 01:30.26 | scanline | that's actually a feature of pybzflag's world loader |
| 01:30.45 | scanline | you can load worlds from normal text files, load them from the binary files used in bzflag's cache, randomly generate them.. and more |
| 01:30.48 | *** join/#bzflag Michaelh (Mouse@171-47.dynamic.visi.com) |
| 01:30.56 | scanline | this is the 'and more', done purely out of craziness |
| 01:31.07 | scanline | and it was about 20 lines of code :) |
| 01:31.16 | bzgirl | ive seen all this pybzflag talk in here, im still not sure what it is :) |
| 01:31.33 | scanline | it's a set of python modules for working with the bzflag protocol and worlds |
| 01:32.01 | scanline | it already has some utilities for manipulating worlds, an observer client, and a chat client |
| 01:32.12 | bzgirl | ooh cool |
| 01:32.17 | scanline | there's a work-in-progress bzflag server and world editor |
| 01:32.46 | scanline | mainly it's just an experiment with a nice clean architecture for implementing bzflag, but that means it can do some really neat stuff |
| 01:32.55 | scanline | like a 3D world view in bzfs :) |
| 01:32.57 | scanline | hiya captain_proton |
| 01:33.02 | captain_proton | yay for dinner |
| 01:33.08 | scanline | captain_proton: I got the radar working nicely, but I can't commit it :-/ |
| 01:33.12 | captain_proton | :P |
| 01:33.21 | scanline | http://navi.picogui.org/images/bzflag/bzfs_radar.png |
| 01:33.29 | captain_proton | its a shame scanline isn't here... |
| 01:33.32 | captain_proton | you'd love this meal |
| 01:33.40 | scanline | wazzat? |
| 01:33.46 | captain_proton | curried fried rice |
| 01:33.50 | scanline | ooh |
| 01:34.05 | Michaelh | no critter bits? |
| 01:34.21 | captain_proton | its got chicken |
| 01:34.25 | captain_proton | but only so my sister will eat it |
| 01:34.31 | scanline | hehe |
| 01:35.01 | captain_proton | making it for myself i'd probably replace the chicken with tofu and add onion & ginger |
| 01:35.04 | scanline | captain_proton: http://navi.picogui.org/images/bzflag/bzflag_map.png <-- this monster gets 8fps in the game UI now |
| 01:35.13 | Michaelh | what was that about javadoc style comments... is there a utility to convert it to a html document? |
| 01:35.18 | captain_proton | yes |
| 01:35.24 | captain_proton | they get included in the doxygen run |
| 01:35.59 | Michaelh | so like @param & @author @returns etc.... |
| 01:36.08 | captain_proton | i'm not sure it does that |
| 01:36.17 | scanline | captain_proton: it should |
| 01:36.19 | captain_proton | but /** documenation */ gets included in the class references |
| 01:36.43 | captain_proton | hiya learner |
| 01:36.52 | learner | howdy cap |
| 01:36.53 | Michaelh | I loath putting complicated html in javadocs.... but I put the parameters, return stuff etc in |
| 01:39.29 | captain_proton | you don't have to put html in there |
| 01:39.30 | *** join/#bzflag Carnage (strayer@dyn216-8-175-175.ADSL.mnsi.net) |
| 01:39.41 | captain_proton | just explain what the class/function does |
| 01:39.52 | Michaelh | I know, that's what I do |
| 01:40.45 | Michaelh | have to admit that's a new concept for bzflag |
| 01:40.47 | Carnage | any admins for ducati on? |
| 01:40.57 | captain_proton | what, documentation? :) |
| 01:41.02 | Michaelh | yep :) |
| 01:41.43 | Carnage | can ugo to ducati and kick trunks he is k, also hurassing me and other teammates |
| 01:42.41 | *** join/#bzflag fiberchunks (~frobozzpf@237.14.252.64.snet.net) |
| 01:43.08 | Carnage | never mind he just left |
| 01:43.47 | Michaelh | he's special k? |
| 01:44.03 | captain_proton | bah |
| 01:44.18 | captain_proton | it bothers me so much when people are content to let campers live |
| 01:45.24 | Carnage | im ment TK |
| 01:45.47 | Michaelh | it's pat labor's twin :) |
| 01:51.54 | sussudio | x |
| 01:52.08 | Michaelh | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:53.34 | Michaelh | ? |
| 01:54.38 | captain_proton | cvs is being really flaky |
| 01:57.48 | captain_proton | not working for me |
| 01:58.01 | scanline | at least now it's just hanging instead of disconnecting immediately |
| 01:58.16 | captain_proton | yep |
| 01:58.25 | captain_proton | eventually gets disconnected |
| 01:58.26 | sussudio | ~d |
| 01:58.50 | Michaelh | so can people submit changes to 1.7 code or is that frozen in stone now? |
| 01:59.02 | Michaelh | just curious |
| 01:59.11 | fiberchunks | ~dict tuple |
| 01:59.36 | scanline | captain_proton: we defintely need to use a LogApproach vector for the camera target, so when you pick a new object it smoothly snaps to it :) |
| 01:59.53 | Michaelh | just seems like any changes to 1.9 will not make it out to the general public for quite some time |
| 02:00.08 | sussudio | what would make a linux box beep at you? 100% cpu usage? |
| 02:00.25 | Michaelh | seeing you with a windows install disk? |
| 02:00.40 | sussudio | i was running bzfs and it went BEEP |
| 02:01.20 | scanline | usually it will beep if you press backspace at the beginning of the line, or if you try to tab-complete a file that doesn't exist |
| 02:01.27 | scanline | or that has multiple matches |
| 02:01.57 | sussudio | it was just running bzfs really |
| 02:04.53 | scanline | http://navi.picogui.org/images/bzflag/jetstream_grass.jpeg |
| 02:06.50 | fiberchunks | scanline> correct me if I'm wrong, but tuple is just another way of saying array? |
| 02:06.59 | scanline | not quite |
| 02:07.10 | fiberchunks | oooo, pretty grass, btw :) |
| 02:07.10 | scanline | tuple, list, array, and sequence all have distinct meanings in python |
| 02:07.22 | captain_proton | eh...kind of pretty |
| 02:07.24 | captain_proton | kind of ugly too |
| 02:07.27 | scanline | a sequence is the broadest category, any object that can be indexed really |
| 02:07.38 | scanline | captain_proton: not pretty, but better than the original :) |
| 02:07.52 | scanline | fiberchunks: a list is a mutable sequence and a tuple is an immuatble sequence |
| 02:08.11 | captain_proton | arguable :) |
| 02:08.22 | scanline | fiberchunks: an array is something the Numeric module introduces- it's like a list, but arbitrarily-dimensional, and homogenous |
| 02:08.24 | scanline | captain_proton: :) |
| 02:08.36 | captain_proton | erk |
| 02:08.40 | fiberchunks | from the python docs: 'it is possible to create tuples with mutable objects, such as lists' |
| 02:08.47 | captain_proton | ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host |
| 02:08.48 | scanline | fiberchunks: arrays are good for fast computations- everything's the same data type, so they can be manipulated very fast |
| 02:09.02 | scanline | fiberchunks: yes.. but the tuple itself is always immutable |
| 02:09.05 | fiberchunks | oh, so tuples can contain any data type? |
| 02:09.09 | scanline | yes |
| 02:09.14 | fiberchunks | ic that now |
| 02:09.17 | scanline | all python sequences except for arrays can contain any data type |
| 02:10.52 | fiberchunks | rather, the tutorial |
| 02:12.45 | *** join/#bzflag Noodleman (~tuckerm@bc183148.bendcable.com) |
| 02:13.44 | fiberchunks | scanline> besides the ability to group unlike data types together, why would one choose a tuple over an array if the data types contained therein were the same? |
| 02:14.23 | scanline | you mean tuples and arrays or lists and arrays? |
| 02:14.33 | fiberchunks | tuples and arrays |
| 02:14.52 | scanline | well, arrays are mutable and tuples aren't, so they're really for completely different things |
| 02:15.26 | fiberchunks | but slice and concatenation operations can simulate a mutable tuple |
| 02:15.45 | scanline | not really |
| 02:16.02 | scanline | slice and concatenation let you create new instances that have different values, they don't let you change the original value |
| 02:16.17 | scanline | this is important when you have references to an object from several places |
| 02:16.21 | fiberchunks | ah, gotcha |
| 02:16.35 | scanline | arrays, tuples, and lists are really used for completely different things |
| 02:16.57 | scanline | arrays are -only- used with the Numeric module, for doing matrix math and such |
| 02:17.17 | scanline | though there are array subclasses you see for manipulating sound and images in packages like PIL and pygame |
| 02:18.15 | scanline | tuples are for when you want a list of objects that can't be changed, or that has a more compact in-memory representation than lists. For example, if you want to return multiple values from a function |
| 02:18.21 | scanline | lists are for pretty much everything else |
| 02:20.00 | scanline | hah |
| 02:20.13 | fiberchunks | teach on, herr professor :) |
| 02:20.29 | scanline | the most important thing to remember really is just which types in python are mutable |
| 02:20.48 | fiberchunks | which would be lists and arrays |
| 02:21.05 | scanline | everything in python is done by reference, but that only changes your program's behaviour with mutable types |
| 02:21.19 | scanline | and dictionaries, and instances... and probably more |
| 02:21.46 | scanline | most types are mutable, but the basic ones like int, float, string, and tuple are immutable |
| 02:21.47 | fiberchunks | coolio, thx :) |
| 02:21.50 | sussudio | cell is on ducati with a cheatclient |
| 02:22.47 | scanline | sure thing |
| 02:24.41 | *** join/#bzflag Carnage (strayer@dyn216-8-172-180.ADSL.mnsi.net) |
| 02:25.02 | Carnage | any ducati admins on? cheater cell is up 2 his oldtricks |
| 02:25.09 | bzgirl | i banned him |
| 02:25.19 | Carnage | thank u |
| 02:33.14 | fiberchunks | cell is now cheating on xmission |
| 02:33.17 | fiberchunks | ~xmission |
| 02:42.07 | *** join/#bzflag Quol (~QuolSimo@modemcable052.11-203-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 02:42.34 | Quol | hello all |
| 02:44.13 | bzgirl | hi Quol |
| 02:45.06 | fiberchunks | lo quol |
| 02:45.10 | JBDiGriz | hey Q |
| 02:45.41 | learner | howdy Quol |
| 02:45.56 | Noodleman | m00f |
| 02:45.57 | learner | odd.. I can't connect to my own server |
| 02:46.36 | Noodleman | how about i send cell a little "cheat" client again? think he'd fall for it again? ;-) |
| 02:48.16 | fiberchunks | learner> the 1.9 version? |
| 02:48.36 | fiberchunks | I can connect to bunnyhunt |
| 02:48.52 | fiberchunks | and gerbil lair |
| 02:49.25 | bzgirl | does anyone here use blog software on linux? |
| 02:50.13 | *** part/#bzflag iLLf8d (~neener@user-0can1b0.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 02:52.04 | fiberchunks | bzgirl> I've been looking at a CMS system that has a blog module for it, but I don't use any 'standalone' bloggers |
| 02:52.26 | bzgirl | theres like a thousand on freshmeat :) |
| 02:52.46 | bzgirl | but some rewuire mysql others cgi-bin access et |
| 02:52.49 | bzgirl | etc |
| 02:53.07 | fiberchunks | heh -- been looking at drupal (http://drupal.org) for a project I'm trying to get going << it requires mysql or some other db (postgres, IIS, whatever) |
| 02:53.31 | sussudio | bzgirl: apt-cache show pyblosxom |
| 02:53.40 | Noodleman | bzgirl: i use b2, which is a php blog page |
| 02:57.05 | Quol | learner and Nid - you guys read over my HOWTO that I posted for bzfs in a chroot jail? I am interested to know if I forgot anything or should add anything?? |
| 02:57.26 | learner | Quol: haven't read it yet, sry |
| 02:57.46 | bzgirl | Quol: i read it today and will try it this week to set up, im on debian though, but it should be pretty similar |
| 02:57.55 | Quol | learner: no probs - |
| 02:57.56 | learner | I'll put it to the test and put one of my servers in a jail, though, sometime over the coming week |
| 02:58.03 | learner | ;) |
| 02:58.15 | Quol | bzgirl: let me know and take some notes - we can add sections for some other distros |
| 02:58.37 | bzgirl | sussudio: have you used that? pyblosom? |
| 02:59.23 | Quol | learner: let me know if you run into any problems with it :) this is version 1 of the doc afterall :) |
| 03:07.43 | *** join/#bzflag Noodleman (~tuckerm@bc183148.bendcable.com) |
| 03:18.38 | sussudio | bzgirl: no. i just used apt-cache search blog. |
| 03:20.06 | bzgirl | sussudio: the server i want to run it on is RH, but it looks ok, i dont need Mysql or cgi-bin stuff |
| 03:25.11 | sussudio | nuh... it just wants apache and python |
| 03:25.13 | Quol | well - g'night all - see you later... |
| 03:25.19 | bzgirl | cu |
| 03:25.21 | *** part/#bzflag Quol (~QuolSimo@modemcable052.11-203-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 03:26.23 | *** join/#bzflag Chikorita (Chikorita@ACA52C14.ipt.aol.com) |
| 03:26.45 | Chikorita | hi people |
| 03:27.12 | bzgirl | hi Chikorita |
| 03:27.19 | learner | hi, chika |
| 03:27.19 | Chikorita | bzg! |
| 03:27.21 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~jeffm@adsl-64-172-198-77.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 03:27.21 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ |
| 03:27.26 | Chikorita | :) |
| 03:27.31 | Chikorita | learnerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr |
| 03:27.33 | learner | you sure were on late last night :) |
| 03:27.35 | Chikorita | :D |
| 03:27.40 | Chikorita | heehe ya |
| 03:27.46 | Chikorita | jus mee an scanny |
| 03:27.47 | Chikorita | heh |
| 03:27.50 | learner | or.. early, that is |
| 03:27.57 | Chikorita | yackin it up wee were :P |
| 03:28.11 | Chikorita | so u finally saw mah message eh |
| 03:28.52 | Chikorita | i was like drivin around cant make up mah mind jus drivin around all ova da place... |
| 03:29.03 | Chikorita | sumtimes i dunno wut i want |
| 03:29.06 | Chikorita | :\ |
| 03:29.20 | learner | liking your new car? eh? |
| 03:29.34 | Chikorita | i finally went mickie d's an bought mee a mcflurrie |
| 03:29.39 | Chikorita | ya i lub it heehe |
| 03:29.58 | Chikorita | i drove like a hunnid miles jus 2 buy an ice cream |
| 03:30.04 | Chikorita | heehe |
| 03:30.34 | Chikorita | i wanna supe it up now an make it perfect |
| 03:30.36 | Chikorita | guess wut |
| 03:30.45 | learner | wut |
| 03:30.50 | Chikorita | i tinkin bout gettin personalized plates |
| 03:30.57 | Chikorita | dat read .... |
| 03:31.03 | Chikorita | "YAY" |
| 03:31.05 | Chikorita | heehe |
| 03:31.09 | bzgirl | heh |
| 03:31.13 | Chikorita | wouldnt dat b kewl |
| 03:31.18 | Chikorita | imma do it |
| 03:31.21 | Chikorita | tommorrow |
| 03:31.21 | learner | heh heh |
| 03:31.23 | Chikorita | heehe |
| 03:31.34 | bzgirl | thats dedication to CTF |
| 03:31.41 | Chikorita | LoL ya |
| 03:31.55 | Chikorita | i say yay all da time tho...itz mah fav werd |
| 03:32.16 | Chikorita | like wen i found a quarta in da parkin lot .. |
| 03:32.26 | Chikorita | i sed "yay , a quarta" |
| 03:32.29 | Chikorita | heehe |
| 03:32.32 | learner | :) |
| 03:32.38 | scanline | werd! |
| 03:32.38 | Chikorita | :D |
| 03:32.47 | Chikorita | scanline! |
| 03:32.49 | Chikorita | hi! |
| 03:32.53 | scanline | hiyas |
| 03:33.00 | Chikorita | boy u mus live in here scanny |
| 03:33.02 | Chikorita | LoL |
| 03:33.10 | Chikorita | iz dat ur futon ova there in da corna? |
| 03:33.14 | scanline | :) |
| 03:33.25 | scanline | well, don't have much else to do at the moment than write code |
| 03:33.45 | Chikorita | i gonna put a bean bag chair in here so i can fall an sink into it |
| 03:34.02 | Chikorita | an no1 wil c mee heh |
| 03:34.17 | Chikorita | o codin r u |
| 03:34.36 | Chikorita | u werkin on dat server teleporter idea thingie? |
| 03:35.34 | Patlabor221 | interserver ports? |
| 03:36.04 | Chikorita | uh huh |
| 03:36.11 | scanline | Chikorita: no, mostly working on pybzflag stuff |
| 03:36.15 | Chikorita | o i c |
| 03:36.18 | Patlabor221 | there would be many problems with interserver ports |
| 03:36.36 | Chikorita | ya i kno , scanline sed it would b tricky |
| 03:36.48 | Patlabor221 | and it dosn't realy make sense |
| 03:36.49 | bzgirl | what go in a tele on ducati and come out on turkey? |
| 03:36.56 | Patlabor221 | a dedicated loby would be better |
| 03:36.59 | Patlabor221 | yes BZGirl |
| 03:37.04 | Chikorita | lol ya bzg |
| 03:37.11 | bzgirl | oh cmon that would cool! |
| 03:37.20 | Chikorita | heehe datz wut i say |
| 03:37.21 | learner | :) |
| 03:37.24 | Chikorita | :D |
| 03:37.46 | learner | over-ruled, pat .. chop chop now, get busy implementing :) |
| 03:38.02 | Patlabor221 | it would be neat for some things I agree |
| 03:38.14 | Patlabor221 | but it would not work well with the current server stuff |
| 03:38.24 | Patlabor221 | what if server was full, name take, ect... |
| 03:38.32 | fiberchunks | it'd become like that 3d chess game -- where you have levels stacked on top of one another |
| 03:38.36 | Patlabor221 | you'd have to stop shots |
| 03:38.42 | Chikorita | or like u could go into a teleporter an end up in a secret server dats only accessible by dat portal thingie wutever |
| 03:38.45 | Patlabor221 | what happens to your score on the server you leave? |
| 03:38.55 | Patlabor221 | chik that's what I mean by a lobby |
| 03:39.03 | Chikorita | yea fiber |
| 03:39.04 | learner | I think there just needs to be new world objects.. stargates :) |
| 03:39.10 | learner | wormholes and everything :) |
| 03:39.11 | Patlabor221 | a central map with links to all servers as teleporters |
| 03:39.19 | fiberchunks | BZ-SG1 |
| 03:39.23 | scanline | ooh |
| 03:39.26 | Chikorita | u lose ur score then |
| 03:39.34 | learner | heh |
| 03:39.44 | Chikorita | jus as if u logged off da server an wen into anutha 1 |
| 03:40.02 | learner | making the horizontal water splash would be a really cool ogl effect.. :) |
| 03:40.03 | Patlabor221 | ok so if oyu have a crap score just hop a gate and then come back and it's clear :) |
| 03:40.07 | Patlabor221 | much easyer then relogin |
| 03:40.12 | Chikorita | <<<server hops all da time tween ducati an intermip :) |
| 03:40.16 | fiberchunks | Patlabor221> lol :) |
| 03:40.32 | Patlabor221 | what do you when the server has a client with your name? |
| 03:40.43 | fiberchunks | a nice, clearly defined path for mass-cheating mayhem ;) |
| 03:40.45 | scanline | whoa |
| 03:41.05 | learner | leave mayhem out of this :) |
| 03:41.06 | scanline | with my new radar, the texture cache, and FSAA off, I get a solid 60 FHz on Gerbil's Lair |
| 03:41.15 | fiberchunks | Patlabor221> that's when the auto-register function comes in ;) |
| 03:41.33 | Chikorita | score only matters on FFA servers ...not much 2 do wif CTF servers.. |
| 03:41.35 | Patlabor221 | well then you have to change the client to be able to change your name |
| 03:41.47 | sussudio | crap.. it's still here. |
| 03:41.47 | fiberchunks | scanline> I would think that that is an enormous improvement, considering how boggy gerbil lair is with a 'real' client |
| 03:42.17 | fiberchunks | Patlabor221> or kick the one who's using your nick |
| 03:42.19 | Patlabor221 | well they are not redoing the gl state for every freakin object, I would hope they are fast |
| 03:42.20 | scanline | fiberchunks: indeed. we fixed a huge bug in the texturing that was causing it to load a new copy of the texture for every box/pyramid in the world :) |
| 03:42.34 | fiberchunks | ah, that helped then :) |
| 03:42.42 | scanline | fiberchunks: also redid the radar so that it breaks up the world into several slices along the Z axis and stuffs each into display lists |
| 03:42.42 | Patlabor221 | fiber, what if you leap into a server where your name is regisered, but not to you? |
| 03:42.51 | Patlabor221 | it's a kick teelporter then |
| 03:43.13 | Chikorita | hmm |
| 03:43.15 | Patlabor221 | just not gonna be horibly intutitive with the current way of doing it |
| 03:43.25 | fiberchunks | Patlabor221> well, in an ideal world, only one person would be able to have a specific callsign, and a 'mass' registration server (ala karma system) |
| 03:43.32 | fiberchunks | and thus that wouldn't be a problem |
| 03:43.33 | Chikorita | <<<callsign copyrighted dec.2002 |
| 03:43.34 | Chikorita | ;) |
| 03:43.34 | Patlabor221 | it's a nice idea but there are many other things that would need to be done first |
| 03:43.48 | Patlabor221 | yes centeral name databases could fix that |
| 03:43.56 | scanline | I think it would work if it wasn't a teleporter but a new object that could send you to new servers.. like a hyperlink :) |
| 03:44.02 | fiberchunks | oh, I agree, I'm just playing devils advocate -- cause it'd be neat :) |
| 03:44.10 | Patlabor221 | yeah it would |
| 03:44.21 | Patlabor221 | but there is a lot more to think about before somone just stuffs it in |
| 03:45.26 | fiberchunks | like learner said -- new world object -- WORMHOLES! ;) |
| 03:45.34 | learner | yay! |
| 03:45.53 | Patlabor221 | while the effect would be cool, a new object solves nothing |
| 03:45.57 | fiberchunks | it would be _incredibly_ cool to see a map with a stargate in it that worked :) |
| 03:46.19 | Patlabor221 | realy a teleporter shoudl just be 2 regons in space, and able to be atached to any object |
| 03:47.12 | fiberchunks | and it'd be even more cool if that stargate required a series of glyphs that the user enters (ala /stargate foobar) before he/she could use it ;) |
| 03:47.17 | bzgirl | deep down inside all you scifi guys really belive in wormholes and tears in the fabric of space and time...dont you? |
| 03:47.29 | scanline | http://navi.picogui.org/images/bzflag/gerbil.jpeg <-- 54 FHz |
| 03:47.30 | fiberchunks | I do |
| 03:47.33 | Patlabor221 | we only know what TV tells us |
| 03:47.41 | Chikorita | ~sci-fi du jour |
| 03:47.41 | | Explosion imminent: inverse pseudopositrino reflection amplifier in deck 42, ensign travis |
| 03:47.42 | bzgirl | its sci-FICTION |
| 03:47.49 | Chikorita | heehe |
| 03:47.50 | Patlabor221 | ha fiber, so you dial and get shot |
| 03:47.57 | Patlabor221 | go play quake :) |
| 03:48.02 | fiberchunks | Patlabor221> yah, gotta be quick :) |
| 03:48.12 | Patlabor221 | again go play quike |
| 03:48.23 | Chikorita | o noooo not deck 42 ! dats where dey keep all da tribbles ;) |
| 03:48.28 | Chikorita | :P |
| 03:48.40 | Patlabor221 | you can do stargates in quake C if youwant |
| 03:48.53 | fiberchunks | bah, bz-gates would be fancy |
| 03:48.56 | fiberchunks | ;) |
| 03:49.06 | bzgirl | learner: he made that stuff up |
| 03:49.10 | learner | hehehe |
| 03:49.12 | fiberchunks | lol |
| 03:49.19 | Patlabor221 | actualy noone knows what they are, we have never been to one, it's all really guesses |
| 03:49.26 | bzgirl | exactly |
| 03:49.50 | Chikorita | worms r good 4 my plants |
| 03:49.52 | bzgirl | lets stick to stuff we know is real, like jumping tanks |
| 03:49.57 | Patlabor221 | educated guesses, but still guesses |
| 03:50.04 | Chikorita | LoL bzg |
| 03:50.04 | learner | lol, bzg |
| 03:50.16 | learner | lol, chika |
| 03:50.23 | fiberchunks | true enough, but the absence of light in a concentrated region of space is enough to make you wonder -- and then scientifically / mathematically defining the possibility of it is even more intriguing |
| 03:50.53 | Chikorita | huh? |
| 03:51.01 | learner | the equations are a royal headache to follow |
| 03:51.11 | fiberchunks | ow, /me just inhaled lens fluid accidentally |
| 03:51.17 | learner | eek |
| 03:51.18 | bzgirl | heh |
| 03:52.01 | fiberchunks | learner> pick up a copy of 'gravitation' some time if you really want a mind-bender :\ |
| 03:52.16 | learner | who's the author? |
| 03:52.22 | fiberchunks | hold one |
| 03:52.25 | Patlabor221 | get the book on the 2d flatlander people, that will bake your noodle |
| 03:52.35 | learner | nvr mind, found it |
| 03:52.38 | fiberchunks | kip thorne |
| 03:52.50 | Chikorita | i read "resturaunt at the end of the universe" in 6th grade dat was a kewl book ta read |
| 03:53.04 | learner | holy cow.. that book is 120 bucks on amazon.. |
| 03:53.05 | fiberchunks | 'but what if I hadn't told you you were going to knock the vase over?' |
| 03:53.20 | Patlabor221 | so long and thanks for all the fish |
| 03:53.29 | fiberchunks | learner> it's well worth the price in weight / thickness / and equations :) |
| 03:53.49 | Patlabor221 | I want peril sensitive sunglasses |
| 03:54.02 | Chikorita | ooH where learner go? |
| 03:54.05 | Chikorita | heehe |
| 03:55.03 | Chikorita | ~fishslap learner |
| 03:55.06 | | ACTION slaps learner up side the head with a wet fish. |
| 03:55.10 | learner | 28dh 2u bbhhe |
| 03:56.37 | Chikorita | a big heavy book like "gravitation" prolly has alot of mass to it so it prolly has alot of gravity too |
| 03:56.44 | Chikorita | ;P |
| 03:57.01 | Chikorita | all da lil sci-fi books revolve around it |
| 03:57.03 | Chikorita | on da shelf |
| 03:57.06 | Chikorita | heehe |
| 03:57.12 | Chikorita | i silly |
| 03:57.16 | Chikorita | :P |
| 03:57.29 | fiberchunks | scanline> where's the keybinding definition for the 'q' key in the pybzflag modules, or is that a std behavior? |
| 03:57.43 | Chikorita | std! uh oh |
| 03:57.53 | Chikorita | o wait u meant standard |
| 03:57.58 | scanline | fiberchunks: it's the ThreeDController class at the bottom of UI/ThreeDView.py |
| 03:58.04 | fiberchunks | thx |
| 03:58.08 | Chikorita | jus ignore mee i go sit in da corner>>>>>>>>>>>>> |
| 03:58.11 | Patlabor221 | ~ban-everyone |
| 03:58.12 | | : are you sure you want to ban everyone? <Y,n,a> |
| 03:58.28 | scanline | fiberchunks: In my local copy both q and escape work, but the CVS server is down :-/ |
| 03:58.29 | Chikorita | no ban mee :( |
| 03:58.56 | scanline | fiberchunks: the new non-slow radar is also only in my local copy |
| 03:59.19 | sussudio | ~ban *!*@*.aol.com |
| 04:00.01 | fiberchunks | yah, I know :\ cvs sux0rs |
| 04:00.09 | captain_proton | argh, still no sf cvs? |
| 04:00.22 | Patlabor221 | why arn't you running it in your svn? |
| 04:00.42 | scanline | Patlabor221: it started out in svn, but captain_proton suggested moving it to official CVS |
| 04:01.13 | fiberchunks | beating a dead horse: what would the approx bandwidth necessary for bzflag cvs be? |
| 04:01.17 | Patlabor221 | why? is he gone 'tarded or something? |
| 04:01.44 | captain_proton | because we've already got bzflag stuff spread out everywhere (ex: bzfsgui.sf.net) |
| 04:02.39 | scanline | I agree it's good to keep everything in one place |
| 04:02.39 | fiberchunks | i.e. min upload, min # clients, GB/month -- does anyone get reports on this sort of data (perhaps herr Riker?) |
| 04:02.47 | scanline | but maybe this big outage is an excuse to change that place :) |
| 04:03.04 | captain_proton | fiberchunks: well - for upload, we'd want a lot |
| 04:03.10 | captain_proton | so a checkout doesn't take 20 minutes |
| 04:03.21 | fiberchunks | I suggested that very idea last night -- but the problem (and a very good one), is where to host, that's free with the bandwidth necessary? |
| 04:03.30 | Patlabor221 | fiber I would take your source size * the number of develoipers * the activity |
| 04:03.49 | scanline | why not babylonia? |
| 04:03.51 | fiberchunks | Patlabor221> for what, GB/month? |
| 04:04.00 | Patlabor221 | to get an idea |
| 04:04.12 | captain_proton | scanline: because they might get pissed off if i used up any more of their bandwidth than i currently do |
| 04:04.15 | Patlabor221 | most dev cvs work is tinny bandwith |
| 04:04.17 | scanline | ah |
| 04:04.19 | Patlabor221 | just the delta states |
| 04:04.36 | captain_proton | full checkouts probably occur maybe 20-50 times a day |
| 04:04.40 | fiberchunks | right, I suppose the major b/w would be fresh checkouts of the whole tree |
| 04:04.44 | captain_proton | for just the developers |
| 04:04.52 | Patlabor221 | yeah and that's what2.5 megs per pop? |
| 04:04.59 | captain_proton | about, yeah |
| 04:05.01 | fiberchunks | of the whole tree? or just the changed files? |
| 04:05.05 | Patlabor221 | say 3 with some proto |
| 04:05.13 | Patlabor221 | tree is like 2.5 megs |
| 04:05.19 | scanline | captain_proton: hmm, both radar and 3D views get unhappy with nonstandardly sized worlds |
| 04:05.34 | captain_proton | howso |
| 04:05.56 | scanline | well, in the 3D view the world can be so big you can't zoom out far enough to see all of it, and it starts hitting the far clipping plane |
| 04:05.57 | Patlabor221 | screamers is way larger then BZ and it's hoted fine on my T1, dosn't get that much trafic tho |
| 04:06.04 | fiberchunks | so 300 M/day conservatively (figuring 100 full checkouts / day) |
| 04:06.09 | scanline | in the radar it just doesn't seem to rescale according to the world size, which is really odd |
| 04:06.25 | Patlabor221 | fiber it would probably be a lot less then that |
| 04:06.31 | Patlabor221 | more when a new release was done |
| 04:06.41 | Patlabor221 | less when it's just devs |
| 04:06.42 | captain_proton | this is just the developer cvs |
| 04:06.50 | captain_proton | we probably have a number of users who update/check out pretty often |
| 04:06.51 | fiberchunks | well yeah, but I'm just trying to gather a conservative estimate |
| 04:07.02 | fiberchunks | I'm one, when cvs works |
| 04:07.09 | scanline | ./worldviewer.py random:size=2100,boxHeight=200,citySize=10,pyrBase=30,pyrHeight=50 -u game |
| 04:07.24 | scanline | it's skyscraper bzflag :) |
| 04:07.27 | Patlabor221 | I think there are less then 100 people who can build |
| 04:08.05 | fiberchunks | windows-wise I would agree with you -- not so sure about *nix-wise though |
| 04:08.17 | Patlabor221 | I wanted to miror cvs on asgard but SF makes that impisible |
| 04:08.32 | Patlabor221 | fiber, 'nixies are cabable, but many seem to run packages |
| 04:08.38 | fiberchunks | good point |
| 04:09.01 | Patlabor221 | I'd bet BZ is under 100 megs a day |
| 04:09.35 | captain_proton | we're averaging about 400 downloads a day from the web releases |
| 04:09.47 | scanline | fiberchunks: sf doesn't give you cvs statistics |
| 04:09.52 | fiberchunks | ah, phoot |
| 04:10.16 | Chikorita | ~d |
| 04:10.24 | Patlabor221 | so web downloads are lookin at over a gig a day |
| 04:10.28 | fiberchunks | captain_proton> is that cvs code, or just the package / source official release builds? |
| 04:10.30 | Chikorita | ooH kr iz on .. |
| 04:10.38 | Chikorita | bbl |
| 04:10.50 | captain_proton | thats the official releases |
| 04:10.53 | fiberchunks | k |
| 04:11.08 | captain_proton | but i think it shows us something about the scale of the traffic the site gets |
| 04:11.48 | fiberchunks | for official releases yes, but that doesn't mean that cvs must continue to be hosted there, does it? hrm, no, I suppose that would violate the 'everything in one place' idea |
| 04:12.22 | captain_proton | plus if we have that many users downloading a day, its going to be more than just one or two who use cvs |
| 04:12.25 | Patlabor221 | actualy locations don't matter much I think, as long as links to those downloads are presented in one place. |
| 04:12.38 | Patlabor221 | so say 1/4 of them are that's 100 |
| 04:12.43 | captain_proton | Patlabor221: its a pain in the ass to have 2876581 different bzflag sites |
| 04:13.08 | Patlabor221 | I"m not meaning sites, one site, one server for CVS and one just for the downloads. the site links them |
| 04:13.12 | Patlabor221 | tha'ts not horible |
| 04:13.15 | scanline | fiberchunks: it shouldn't be an issue to have CVS/Subversion on a different server than downloads and web as long as all the code is in one place. That's what we're doing already, after all |
| 04:13.47 | Patlabor221 | acutaly SF dosn't keep all our downloads in one place |
| 04:13.53 | fiberchunks | that's what I was thinking -- seeing as how the majority of traffic could prob. be attributed to 'release' downloads |
| 04:13.54 | Patlabor221 | they have all the mirrors |
| 04:14.16 | fiberchunks | right, ibiblio telia, et al |
| 04:14.31 | scanline | captain_proton: whoa, I just noticed that horizontal panning works |
| 04:14.38 | *** join/#bzflag Chikorita (Chikorita@ACA52C14.ipt.aol.com) |
| 04:14.44 | Chikorita | *sigh* |
| 04:14.49 | Patlabor221 | seperating them may be good, then if the CVS server craps, then at least the download files are still cool |
| 04:14.51 | captain_proton | well it sort of works |
| 04:15.06 | scanline | seems to work right from any angle I try |
| 04:15.13 | scanline | vertical is still messed up though |
| 04:15.15 | captain_proton | rotate to 45 degrees |
| 04:15.26 | scanline | works |
| 04:15.29 | fiberchunks | yah, but even if that were agreeable, the major issue of hosting/control of host has to be resolved |
| 04:15.30 | captain_proton | it does? |
| 04:15.45 | scanline | yep.. I'm trying it at different angles, horizontal always works |
| 04:16.06 | captain_proton | horizontal and vertical are the same code |
| 04:16.08 | fiberchunks | s/hosting/free hosting |
| 04:16.09 | scanline | now we just need key/mouse bindings that don't suck |
| 04:16.14 | scanline | captain_proton: hmm... |
| 04:16.19 | captain_proton | err |
| 04:16.23 | captain_proton | i mean x/y |
| 04:16.42 | captain_proton | if i rotate to 45, mouse up/down works the same as left/right (horizontal panning) |
| 04:16.46 | scanline | yeah, I'm referring to x/y panning with shift-middle |
| 04:17.00 | scanline | yep |
| 04:17.09 | captain_proton | which is wrong |
| 04:17.09 | scanline | but horizontal panning (x) always seems to work |
| 04:17.57 | scanline | I really hate shift/alt-middle |
| 04:18.15 | captain_proton | ok |
| 04:18.29 | captain_proton | i want left button completely available for my stuff |
| 04:18.33 | scanline | first question is, whould we require a middle button? |
| 04:18.36 | captain_proton | i like the wheel for zoom |
| 04:18.37 | scanline | er, should |
| 04:18.42 | captain_proton | other than that, i'm happy |
| 04:18.42 | scanline | yes, I like the wheel too |
| 04:18.59 | scanline | could be like blender where technically you can use it with a 2-button mouse, but it really sucks :) |
| 04:19.03 | captain_proton | especially the smoooooothness of it |
| 04:19.05 | fiberchunks | wouldn't requiring a middle button eliminate the left button for those with only 2? |
| 04:19.16 | Patlabor221 | cap it gets funny at near 0 zoom |
| 04:19.20 | Patlabor221 | takes for ever to zoom in or out |
| 04:19.51 | scanline | captain_proton: also, I'd like to clean up the controller stuff so that we have a base for map viewing, which is then subclassed for editing. do you have any local changes that would screw up? |
| 04:20.14 | captain_proton | might screw up picking, but nothing thats unfixable |
| 04:20.18 | scanline | ok |
| 04:20.24 | scanline | hm, picking... |
| 04:20.34 | scanline | :) |
| 04:20.34 | captain_proton | basically just a camera.load & view.scene.pick(event.pos) |
| 04:21.02 | scanline | oh, and besides the radar, I added some other miscellaneous stuff... |
| 04:21.23 | scanline | exceptions on missing texture are more sensible, ESC quits in ThreeDController, added a wireframe mode |
| 04:23.39 | Patlabor221 | what is thought of this for a new TP texture? |
| 04:23.49 | captain_proton | so scanline |
| 04:23.50 | Patlabor221 | http://www.bakadigital.com/BZ/caution.png ? |
| 04:23.58 | captain_proton | do you have any suggestions for different mouse bindings? |
| 04:24.00 | captain_proton | or Patlabor221? |
| 04:24.17 | Patlabor221 | you can't allways asume a middle mouse button |
| 04:24.21 | Patlabor221 | or a wheel |
| 04:24.25 | sussudio | wtf |
| 04:24.32 | sussudio | i wasnt supposed to get spam from SF |
| 04:24.41 | learner | or even a mouse |
| 04:24.44 | scanline | captain_proton: I was still pondering... I'd really like to make the middle button pick, but that tends to confuse people, so I was thinking left picks, right pans, shift-right rotates |
| 04:25.01 | captain_proton | well we have keyboard bindings for the wheel |
| 04:25.09 | Patlabor221 | I allways do right rotates, shift right pans |
| 04:25.12 | scanline | Patlabor221, learner: I think we need a 3-button mouse with wheel for efficient editing.. there will be keybindings so it's not required, but it will really help |
| 04:25.17 | Patlabor221 | people seem to rotate more then pan |
| 04:25.32 | scanline | Patlabor221: makes sense.. in blender that's configurable :) |
| 04:25.41 | learner | as long as it's not required, and doesn't leave features out, I'm happy |
| 04:25.53 | scanline | also, how about yoinking blender's "3D cursor" idea? |
| 04:26.01 | Patlabor221 | sure it shoudl be configed for anything |
| 04:26.07 | captain_proton | scanline: link to an explaination of "3d cursor" |
| 04:26.16 | Patlabor221 | but common thing in modelers is to rotate a 3d view more |
| 04:26.45 | Patlabor221 | tho most mapers use a 4 viewport setup |
| 04:26.46 | scanline | captain_proton: I'll look if ya want, but basically it's the location that new objects are created at. When you move it in one view, its position doesn't change in the axes that view can't control |
| 04:27.06 | scanline | captain_proton: in blender, you left-click to position the 3D cursor, middle plus various modifiers moves the camera, and right selects |
| 04:27.18 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 04:27.27 | captain_proton | i'm planning to make my editor have only one view |
| 04:27.33 | Patlabor221 | left select is standard for a LOT of things |
| 04:27.40 | scanline | captain_proton: I was thinking that in the camera mode we're using now, we could use a crosshair or something to mark the location the camera is focused on if it's not an object.. and the 3D cursor could also serve that purpose |
| 04:28.09 | scanline | Patlabor221: obviously |
| 04:28.15 | captain_proton | whatever we end up with, it needs to be reconfigurable |
| 04:28.19 | captain_proton | so i can use the glove, etc |
| 04:29.16 | scanline | might be good to start on a way to configure such things |
| 04:29.31 | scanline | could make our configuration files python too :) |
| 04:29.43 | captain_proton | works for me |
| 04:30.14 | scanline | then we'd have it define a dict or something mapping inputs (which could be classes defining keys, mouse buttons/axes) to functions implementing actions |
| 04:30.21 | scanline | Patlabor221: screamers? |
| 04:30.28 | Patlabor221 | it's a silly name |
| 04:30.40 | Patlabor221 | it's no longer the thing I envisioned |
| 04:30.42 | scanline | Patlabor221: Super Happy Fun Car |
| 04:30.56 | Patlabor221 | I like it, it's got a ring to it. |
| 04:31.21 | Patlabor221 | tho they ain't cars |
| 04:31.33 | scanline | SUVs? |
| 04:31.43 | Patlabor221 | not exactly |
| 04:31.51 | Patlabor221 | lack of wheels mostly |
| 04:31.53 | captain_proton | good morning, how are you, i'm doctor worm |
| 04:32.32 | scanline | yikes |
| 04:32.35 | Patlabor221 | cap you have to hook it up to work with an old Nintendo power glove |
| 04:32.42 | captain_proton | power glove sucks |
| 04:32.49 | Patlabor221 | that they do |
| 04:32.52 | Patlabor221 | bu stil |
| 04:33.14 | Patlabor221 | I don't have one |
| 04:33.22 | Patlabor221 | I just thought it would be funny |
| 04:33.31 | Patlabor221 | we have some of those spaceball thingys |
| 04:33.32 | scanline | I have one around here somewhere |
| 04:33.55 | captain_proton | scanline: i noticed last night you started on an ftgl-type-thingy? |
| 04:34.02 | Patlabor221 | they kept giving us free ones untill we hooked up support for them |
| 04:34.09 | scanline | captain_proton: a little.. I got tired before actually writing any code |
| 04:39.57 | Patlabor221 | well if noone has any good names, I fear I will have to revert to the random anime title generator |
| 04:41.19 | captain_proton | make a little birdhouse in your soul |
| 04:41.40 | fiberchunks | yay, TMBG |
| 04:41.42 | fiberchunks | :) |
| 04:41.44 | Patlabor221 | everyone wants prostetic foreheads for there real heads |
| 04:42.27 | Patlabor221 | did you ever see the Tinny Toon Aventures where they did music videos for 2 songs from that album? |
| 04:42.39 | captain_proton | i've seen the particle man one |
| 04:42.49 | Patlabor221 | they did Constantiople too |
| 04:42.57 | scanline | KMOD_CTRL == KMOD_LCTRL | KMOD_RCTRL |
| 04:43.08 | captain_proton | scanline: oh? :) |
| 04:43.10 | *** join/#bzflag eddienull (~kevin@adsl-63-195-130-242.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net) |
| 04:43.21 | scanline | captain_proton: I forgot about that when I was looking at this last too |
| 04:45.07 | Patlabor221 | oooooo, the "Mecha Name Generator Version 2.0 |
| 04:45.28 | scanline | captain_proton: you seem to be missing a sign or two in your trig |
| 04:45.49 | Patlabor221 | Tactical Galaxy Seeker: Super God |
| 04:46.49 | captain_proton | scanline: very possible |
| 04:47.03 | scanline | captain_proton: I'm just not sure which yet :) |
| 04:48.40 | scanline | ah, I think I fixed it |
| 04:48.58 | captain_proton | now if only you could commit it >:P |
| 04:49.00 | captain_proton | diff me |
| 04:49.10 | scanline | I could just paste in the relevant lines, it's really short |
| 04:49.15 | scanline | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:49.15 | scanline | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:49.15 | scanline | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:49.15 | scanline | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:49.15 | scanline | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:50.05 | scanline | I rearranged it so that it looked more like a matrix multiply, but I think it's the sign on sin for y that was missing |
| 04:50.25 | scanline | plus I think you had the angle going backwards.. I took out the sign on view.cameara.azimuth |
| 04:51.10 | captain_proton | ooh sexy |
| 04:51.57 | scanline | I'm definitely putting the camera target on an Animated.Vector to see if I can smooth it out |
| 04:51.58 | fiberchunks | oh, forgot to mention (and remind), that overhead seems to be broken |
| 04:52.14 | scanline | Works For Me (tm) |
| 04:52.17 | captain_proton | maybe a gaussian approach? |
| 04:52.32 | scanline | captain_proton: hmm... |
| 04:53.05 | scanline | captain_proton: how would that work for animation? |
| 04:53.36 | fiberchunks | scanline: AttributeError: PygameViewport instance has no attribute 'evalViewport' <<< upon issuing ./worldviewer.py http://jupiter.babylonia.flatirons.org/decks -uoverhead |
| 04:53.51 | captain_proton | greatest speed would be in the middle of whatever movement you were doing |
| 04:54.05 | scanline | fiberchunks: I fixed that already |
| 04:54.10 | fiberchunks | ah, :) |
| 04:54.17 | captain_proton | i mean gaussian velocity |
| 04:54.21 | captain_proton | not position =) |
| 04:54.45 | scanline | captain_proton: hmm.. well, I'll try the LogApproach first since it's already written, and I rather like having the most speed at the beginning of the motion |
| 04:55.02 | captain_proton | could try either of the approaches you've written already |
| 04:55.02 | scanline | the cool thing about Animated.Vector is it's easy to change that :) |
| 04:55.08 | captain_proton | btw, what is sigmoid used for? |
| 04:55.10 | scanline | well, sigmoid won't really work for this |
| 04:55.20 | scanline | the HUD show/hide uses it |
| 04:55.28 | captain_proton | ahh |
| 04:55.33 | captain_proton | btw, the hud show/hide is really cute |
| 04:55.44 | scanline | the thing about sigmoid is you have to map a particular range from the value you're controlling onto the sigmoid function, so it works best on things that are usually discrete |
| 04:55.44 | scanline | :) |
| 04:55.45 | scanline | thanks |
| 04:56.44 | captain_proton | its like using MovieOS! |
| 04:57.23 | scanline | hehe |
| 04:57.58 | Chikorita | ;) |
| 04:59.14 | Chikorita | did i jus kill dis convo? |
| 04:59.20 | Chikorita | im sowee |
| 04:59.23 | Chikorita | :x |
| 05:03.46 | captain_proton | so did we decide on right mouse button for rotation, shift+right for horizontal panning? |
| 05:04.03 | scanline | I think so |
| 05:04.10 | captain_proton | k |
| 05:08.33 | captain_proton | every once in a while i get a password prompt |
| 05:09.29 | scanline | wooo, it's all woogly |
| 05:11.24 | Chikorita | nite all i goin 2 bed too... |
| 05:11.42 | *** part/#bzflag bzgirl (~brat@toronto-hs-64-26-176-100.s-ip.magma.ca) |
| 05:12.04 | *** part/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~jeffm@adsl-64-172-198-77.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 05:17.41 | captain_proton | bah |
| 05:17.49 | captain_proton | only games out there are 10-shot get lucky games |
| 05:20.36 | sussudio | ah it's gone |
| 05:20.41 | sussudio | ~bzflist |
| 05:22.35 | fiberchunks | captain_proton> wanna play little rabbit hunt? |
| 05:23.29 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 05:23.34 | captain_proton | if there are more than two of us =) |
| 05:23.41 | fiberchunks | learner> come on then :) |
| 05:23.58 | fiberchunks | and sussudio if you have a 1.9 client? |
| 05:24.07 | sussudio | timmah? |
| 05:24.24 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 05:24.31 | fiberchunks | respect mah authoritah |
| 05:24.32 | captain_proton | we need rabbit hunt decks |
| 05:24.35 | fiberchunks | yes yes |
| 05:24.39 | sussudio | ITSABADKITTIE |
| 05:24.49 | fiberchunks | that would be a good koth style game |
| 05:24.57 | fiberchunks | jump and chase |
| 05:25.19 | fiberchunks | learner! play rabbit! the DoD commands you! ;) |
| 05:29.53 | captain_proton | 1 or 2 shot? |
| 05:30.26 | fiberchunks | don't matter -- I prefer 2 shot |
| 05:30.34 | fiberchunks | but 1 is fine if that's what you like |
| 05:31.16 | captain_proton | its up |
| 05:33.38 | *** join/#bzflag lurgy (~lurgyman@161.97.199.99) |
| 05:55.50 | *** join/#bzflag Noodleman (~tuckerm@bc183148.bendcable.com) |
| 05:59.53 | CIA | 03micahjd * 12pybzflag/ (9 files in 3 dirs): Metric bucketful of changes I couldn't commit earlier because of flaky sourceforge CVS |
| 06:06.43 | fiberchunks | cvs <login foo here>; cvs co pybzflag -- correct? |
| 06:06.53 | fiberchunks | wanna see if anonymous is behaving |
| 06:08.11 | fiberchunks | yay! anon cvs |
| 06:09.48 | fiberchunks | scanline> I thought that shift+right was panning no? |
| 06:10.09 | captain_proton | on the copy you have, probably shift+middle |
| 06:10.29 | scanline | the copy in CVS won't work until I can commit this file |
| 06:10.44 | fiberchunks | ah, k |
| 06:10.45 | captain_proton | freakin' hell |
| 06:12.26 | CIA | 03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag/UI (ThreeDControl.py): A missing file, oh no! |
| 06:12.49 | fiberchunks | heh, I'm trying to update bzflag now -- this should take a good long time |
| 06:13.22 | CIA | 03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag/UI (ThreeDView.py): Animated is not in UI |
| 06:13.55 | scanline | it actually just got pretty decently-fast for me |
| 06:14.14 | fiberchunks | it's become dog slow for me ;) |
| 06:14.31 | scanline | is this anoncvs you're talking about or via SSH? |
| 06:15.39 | fiberchunks | I have no account -- so it's anon |
| 06:15.43 | scanline | ah |
| 06:15.48 | scanline | well, sfsnap does pybzflag now |
| 06:16.13 | fiberchunks | yeah I know -- I haven't tried anon in a while due to it's usual b0rkenness, so I figured I'd try for a hoot |
| 06:19.23 | fiberchunks | well, the woman beckons -- have a good one |
| 06:27.21 | CIA | 03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag/UI (2 files): Hooray, a camera class that transparently pipes everything through Animated |
| 06:28.23 | captain_proton | scanline: cvs add OpenGLViewport |
| 06:29.14 | scanline | that isn't a separate file |
| 06:29.16 | scanline | it's in Viewport.py |
| 06:29.42 | captain_proton | hrm |
| 06:29.43 | scanline | ah |
| 06:29.56 | scanline | forgot to test 3D, I was just testing game since it tests radar and ThreeDView |
| 06:30.28 | CIA | 03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag/UI (ThreeDView.py): Fix ThreeDView |
| 06:31.12 | scanline | so, now we have a camera that works exactly like picogui's debug camera :) |
| 06:33.35 | learner | eeek!!!!! |
| 06:33.45 | learner | did I miss some decks??!?!?! |
| 06:34.31 | captain_proton | you did |
| 06:34.33 | CIA | 03davidtrowbridge * 12pybzflag/BZFlag/UI (2 files): mostly working picking |
| 06:34.40 | scanline | ooh |
| 06:34.44 | learner | :( oh, the humanity |
| 06:35.03 | *** part/#bzflag eddienull (~kevin@adsl-63-195-130-242.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net) |
| 06:35.11 | scanline | hmm |
| 06:35.18 | scanline | does it only register a hit on a box if I click the top side? |
| 06:35.20 | captain_proton | it seems to mess up with pyramids |
| 06:35.24 | captain_proton | and yeah |
| 06:35.28 | captain_proton | i'm working on it |
| 06:35.34 | scanline | okeydokey |
| 06:37.42 | captain_proton | although i'm hopelessly confused about it at the moment :P |
| 06:39.39 | CIA | 03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag/UI (ThreeDView.py): A little documenting |
| 06:42.29 | captain_proton | scanline: don't suppose you have any ideas? :P |
| 06:42.47 | scanline | I'll look at it right after I commit this, just a sec |
| 06:45.21 | CIA | 03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag/UI (3 files): Added infrastructure for editing controls that build on viewing controls to yield an 'editor' UI |
| 06:45.56 | scanline | looks like Drawable.drawWithName isn't used? |
| 06:46.10 | captain_proton | nope |
| 06:46.15 | captain_proton | won't be either, let me clean that up |
| 06:46.21 | scanline | okey |
| 06:47.09 | CIA | 03davidtrowbridge * 12pybzflag/BZFlag/UI (Drawable.py): pooperscoop a turd left over from an old design idea |
| 06:48.24 | scanline | yaknow, it looks almost like it's rendering it with the wrong perspective matrix or something similar |
| 06:48.47 | scanline | if I reposition the view so that the only thing on the screen is a single box, I can't pick it |
| 06:49.11 | captain_proton | the modelview should be the same |
| 06:49.13 | captain_proton | lemme check |
| 06:49.14 | scanline | i really don't like duplicating the gluPerspective stuff there |
| 06:49.33 | captain_proton | hrm |
| 06:49.59 | captain_proton | let me read some docs to see if its even necessary |
| 06:50.14 | scanline | ok |
| 06:50.28 | captain_proton | hmm, it is |
| 06:50.35 | captain_proton | but perhaps we could make it load the existing perspective matrix |
| 06:50.51 | scanline | the perspective matrix is set up in OpenGLViewport.configureOpenGL, we could call that |
| 06:51.00 | scanline | scene would need a viewport reference though |
| 06:52.25 | CIA | 03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag/UI (Viewport.py): viewport.rect is a lot better than viewport.viewport |
| 06:53.59 | scanline | at least the initialization for pick should probably go in view rather than scene, since it needs to poke at the viewport |
| 06:54.24 | captain_proton | fine with me |
| 06:54.37 | scanline | k |
| 06:55.07 | scanline | hmm |
| 06:58.43 | CIA | 03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag/UI (2 files): Rearranged the picking code a bit, it still doesn't work |
| 07:03.37 | CIA | 03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag/UI (2 files): Reorganized the pick code a little more |
| 07:05.25 | CIA | 03brlcad * 12bzflag/ (2 files in 2 dirs): handle non-alphanumerics better; added output method |
| 07:11.32 | captain_proton | hrm |
| 07:11.33 | captain_proton | mousemove? |
| 07:13.05 | scanline | yeah.. so it's easy to make sure the right areas are getting turned into the right objects |
| 07:13.14 | captain_proton | ah |
| 07:13.18 | scanline | and I know I broke the pick matrix.. I'm looking at some docs to figure out how it's supposed to work |
| 07:16.37 | CIA | 03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag/UI (2 files): Picking is slightly more working.. it looks like the scene it's picking from is scaled differently than the scene it's rendering |
| 07:24.12 | CIA | 03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag/UI (ThreeDView.py): Picking works. Silly rabbit, OpenGL's origin isn't the same as SDL's origin |
| 07:24.53 | CIA | 03davidtrowbridge * 12pybzflag/doc (AUTHORS): expandify my information |
| 07:25.07 | scanline | =) |
| 07:25.09 | captain_proton | ahh |
| 07:25.22 | captain_proton | you see, i was using gtkglarea, in which the origins are the same |
| 07:25.36 | scanline | well, there was also a problem with the matrices |
| 07:26.26 | captain_proton | neato |
| 07:26.33 | captain_proton | can we move it back to left click? :) |
| 07:26.33 | scanline | but now it calls the viewport's code for setting up perspective matrices, so it should work with different FOVs or ortho mode |
| 07:26.38 | scanline | mmmyes :) |
| 07:27.07 | scanline | also, it's kind of odd that the Style object has the drawable for the ground... |
| 07:27.16 | scanline | but I guess it makes sense in that the style object gives the ground size |
| 07:28.07 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 07:28.15 | captain_proton | the editor view doesn't use the editing control? |
| 07:28.21 | scanline | it doesn't? |
| 07:28.30 | scanline | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:28.30 | captain_proton | oh oops |
| 07:29.13 | scanline | that way it could be possible to switch to Editing controls during a game :) |
| 07:30.10 | captain_proton | hah! |
| 07:30.33 | captain_proton | in-editor playtesting too |
| 07:30.37 | scanline | indeed |
| 07:30.48 | captain_proton | thats kind of disgustingly flexible |
| 07:30.51 | scanline | that'd be as good an excuse as any to make a playable client in pybzflag :) |
| 07:33.53 | scanline | checking out or checking in? |
| 07:33.58 | captain_proton | checking in |
| 07:34.09 | captain_proton | i usually do a diff before i do a commit |
| 07:34.20 | captain_proton | just to make sure i don't commit something boneheaded =) |
| 07:34.29 | scanline | I did that more often when using subversion :) |
| 07:34.48 | scanline | ah... |
| 07:36.06 | captain_proton | erg |
| 07:36.14 | captain_proton | i think sf might have been deaded again |
| 07:36.30 | scanline | bleh |
| 07:38.06 | captain_proton | merrily, merrily he said unto them, merrily merrily, for i am come |
| 07:38.21 | captain_proton | for in the land of reversible cups, and sanitary pedestals.. |
| 07:38.21 | scanline | ooh.. decks in wireframe |
| 07:40.16 | scanline | so... |
| 07:40.22 | scanline | when will this be able to draw tanks? :) |
| 07:40.33 | captain_proton | heh |
| 07:40.39 | captain_proton | the tank drawing code in bzflag scares me |
| 07:41.20 | captain_proton | src/geometry/models/*tank |
| 07:41.25 | scanline | ah |
| 07:41.27 | scanline | LOD? |
| 07:41.31 | captain_proton | yep |
| 07:42.16 | scanline | hm.. this looks like something that should be pickled and stuck in the data directory or something |
| 07:43.59 | captain_proton | or converted to a real model format |
| 07:44.39 | scanline | well, we could convert all of these drawables to a real model format :) |
| 07:44.57 | captain_proton | not really |
| 07:45.28 | scanline | not that it would help at all, since you'd still have to pull them apart and rescale things and recalculat normals |
| 07:45.44 | CIA | 03davidtrowbridge * 12pybzflag/BZFlag/UI (ThreeDControl.py): rearrangify the picking stuff |
| 07:46.55 | scanline | how does bzedit represent selected objects? |
| 07:47.14 | captain_proton | you mean backend or visually? |
| 07:47.18 | scanline | both |
| 07:47.23 | scanline | :) |
| 07:47.27 | scanline | but I'm mainly thinking about visually |
| 07:47.29 | captain_proton | backend depends on the version |
| 07:47.34 | captain_proton | visually, i colored the object red |
| 08:06.15 | scanline | hm.. assuming this works, it would be the first bzedit that works on OS X |
| 08:06.57 | captain_proton | yep |
| 08:06.58 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 08:07.11 | captain_proton | how might i kill the delay in the loop? |
| 08:07.43 | scanline | for now the only way besides commenting it out is to give the viewport's constructor a big value for the frame rate limit |
| 08:07.59 | *** join/#bzflag MrCooper (~daenzer@dclient80-218-118-173.hispeed.ch) |
| 08:08.19 | scanline | the event loop will omit the delay entirely if it's already past its deadline for the next timer event |
| 08:11.59 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 08:12.03 | captain_proton | is python internally threaded at all? |
| 08:12.08 | scanline | nope |
| 08:12.19 | scanline | its threads are just pthreads or equivalent |
| 08:12.30 | captain_proton | which leads to the next question |
| 08:12.41 | scanline | someone was trying to give the interpreter threads, but it's going slow because it uses the C stack for python function calls |
| 08:12.54 | captain_proton | how do we get this thing to run at a decent speed on the onyx |
| 08:13.29 | scanline | what would be different about the onyx as compared to linux? |
| 08:13.41 | captain_proton | the processors are slower |
| 08:13.45 | captain_proton | 250MHz apiece |
| 08:13.49 | captain_proton | but there are 4 of em |
| 08:13.50 | scanline | oh, ok |
| 08:14.02 | captain_proton | nono |
| 08:14.08 | scanline | I don't see how threads would help then |
| 08:14.08 | captain_proton | I/O is much better than on linux |
| 08:14.36 | scanline | I should try profiling this thing again now that the big texture problem is fixed |
| 08:14.38 | captain_proton | could fawn out some stuff to other processors |
| 08:14.45 | scanline | ah |
| 08:14.53 | scanline | right.. forgot it was multiple CPU |
| 08:15.09 | scanline | still, there's not much to farm.. I would expect this is spending almost all its time in the rendering loop |
| 08:19.43 | captain_proton | naptime |
| 08:19.46 | CIA | 03davidtrowbridge * 12pybzflag/BZFlag/UI (ThreeDView.py): whitespace fix |
| 08:19.49 | scanline | yeah, same here... |
| 08:19.54 | scanline | I'm not seeing anything notable in this profile |
| 08:21.07 | scanline | these are probably the most important lines: |
| 08:21.12 | scanline | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:21.12 | scanline | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:21.16 | scanline | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:21.47 | scanline | there aren't any cumulative times over 1 second for that run that aren't in the path from the entry point to draw() |
| 08:22.24 | scanline | and the cumulative time doesn't drop noticealby in the rendering path until right between the view's render() and drawable's draw() |
| 08:22.37 | scanline | hm.. is there a way to build a list of display list IDs and give that directly to OpenGL? |
| 08:55.14 | *** join/#bzflag eddienull (~kevin@adsl-63-195-130-242.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net) |
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| 09:42.54 | Chestal | tag |
| 10:26.23 | *** join/#bzflag bomber (~bomber@ap97.physik.uni-frankfurt.de) |
| 10:26.28 | bomber | moin |
| 10:30.35 | Chestal | hi bomber |
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| 14:22.24 | TimRiker | ~nslookup quol.bzflag.org |
| 14:26.17 | captain_pistachi | http://www.gamespot.com/gamespot/features/all/gamespotting/071103minusworld/1.html |
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| 16:13.27 | scanline | hi |
| 16:14.31 | prot-work | hiya scanline |
| 16:20.40 | scanline | :) |
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| 16:25.07 | prot-work | yay for smp |
| 16:31.59 | fiberchunks | scanline or prot-work> how did you all generate the profiling numbers up above? |
| 16:32.04 | fiberchunks | and good morning |
| 16:32.05 | fiberchunks | :) |
| 16:33.14 | fiberchunks | ah, that's what psyco is? |
| 16:33.48 | prot-work | thats one thing that psyco does |
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| 16:46.22 | prot-work | scanline: what version of freetype will you require? |
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| 16:53.11 | prot-work | harumph |
| 16:53.27 | prot-work | i need to install gimp-print in order to satisfy an 8th-level dependency for imagemagick |
| 16:53.49 | fiberchunks | heh |
| 16:54.06 | prot-work | which means i may end up having to install gimp :P |
| 16:54.27 | prot-work | ooh nope, next one is cups |
| 16:55.16 | prot-work | NOW i get to do gimp and gtk+ |
| 16:55.22 | fiberchunks | yup, then gimp-cups I would imagine -- why don't you just USE="-cups" ? |
| 16:55.38 | prot-work | this isn't gentoo |
| 16:55.48 | fiberchunks | ah, .deb or .rpm? |
| 16:55.58 | prot-work | nope |
| 16:56.02 | prot-work | inst tardist |
| 16:56.03 | prot-work | (irix) |
| 16:57.43 | *** join/#bzflag patlabor221 (~jeffm@208.48.199.214) |
| 16:57.58 | prot-work | he really needs to get rid of that auto-ghost |
| 16:58.22 | *** join/#bzflag patlabor221 (~jeffm@208.48.199.214) |
| 16:58.27 | prot-work | damnit |
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| 16:58.34 | prot-work | hit him on aim about that |
| 16:58.41 | prot-work | i can't do it here |
| 16:59.00 | *** join/#bzflag patlabor221 (~jeffm@208.48.199.214) |
| 16:59.27 | fiberchunks | k |
| 16:59.35 | *** join/#bzflag patlabor221 (~jeffm@208.48.199.214) |
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| 17:02.20 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ |
| 17:04.25 | prot-work | Patlabor221: get rid of the autoghost |
| 17:06.57 | Patlabor221 | I thought I did, but mric is not saving the changes |
| 17:06.59 | Patlabor221 | :( |
| 17:07.43 | Patlabor221 | switched to x-chat |
| 17:10.44 | fiberchunks | oh, I do so love anon cvs |
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| 17:20.49 | prot-work | BWAHAHAHAHAHAH |
| 17:20.54 | prot-work | the overhead view is working |
| 17:21.27 | prot-work | YEEHAW! |
| 17:21.29 | fiberchunks | what's this about a wireframe view that scanline mentioned last night? |
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| 17:24.27 | fiberchunks | picker is identifying objects too -- uber-spiffy :) |
| 17:25.37 | prot-work | =) |
| 17:25.48 | prot-work | hrm, anaglyph seems kinda borked |
| 17:25.57 | prot-work | might be a bug in this old graphics hardware |
| 17:26.48 | fiberchunks | lemme look-see |
| 17:27.06 | prot-work | well the code was messed up |
| 17:27.19 | prot-work | but after i fixed that it only gets the anaglyph view when moving fast through the scene |
| 17:27.32 | prot-work | lemme commit the code fixes |
| 17:28.10 | CIA | 03davidtrowbridge * 12pybzflag/BZFlag/UI (AnaglyphView.py): unbreak anaglyph mode |
| 17:29.50 | prot-work | amazing |
| 17:29.54 | prot-work | i'm getting 50fps |
| 17:30.02 | prot-work | and its using 1 250MHz processor |
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| 17:31.05 | prot-work | fiberchunks: can you grab the snap and try anaglyph? |
| 17:31.13 | prot-work | its possible that scanline borked it with his camera changes |
| 17:31.46 | fiberchunks | new snap? I just cvs upped it |
| 17:32.03 | prot-work | anoncvs is 24hrs behind, no? |
| 17:32.20 | fiberchunks | oh, I'm not sure -- I'll get latest snappage of pybzflag too |
| 17:33.29 | fiberchunks | yes, anaglyph is indeed not separating out the 3 (or however many) channels for anaglyph |
| 17:33.43 | fiberchunks | just looks like regular 3d view |
| 17:35.53 | prot-work | 2 channels |
| 17:36.03 | prot-work | one red, one bluegreen |
| 17:36.11 | fiberchunks | ah |
| 17:36.39 | fiberchunks | how is the offset from the 'center image' decided? something to do with the eyes' focal length? |
| 17:37.25 | prot-work | 3dwm.sf.net |
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| 17:37.35 | fiberchunks | oooo ! |
| 17:37.39 | prot-work | right now its got a hardcoded 'eye separation' value |
| 17:37.51 | fiberchunks | 404 not found |
| 17:37.54 | prot-work | and it determines the camera angles based on the distance from the camera's focus point |
| 17:37.57 | prot-work | err |
| 17:37.59 | prot-work | just search for 3dwm |
| 17:38.04 | prot-work | its a neat project, but completely useless |
| 17:38.04 | fiberchunks | I will, no worries |
| 17:38.35 | Patlabor221 | your drag smoothing is wierd |
| 17:38.40 | prot-work | at least useless if you're not in an immersive environment |
| 17:38.50 | prot-work | its a bit weird |
| 17:38.52 | prot-work | but i like it |
| 17:39.05 | Patlabor221 | should make it an option, makes it feel laggy to me |
| 17:39.12 | Patlabor221 | and if there is a hitch, it freaks |
| 17:39.13 | fiberchunks | I dig the vnc cube ;) |
| 17:39.41 | Patlabor221 | and it dosn't work if the mouse X Coordinates are negitive |
| 17:39.58 | Patlabor221 | or off the screen |
| 17:40.40 | Patlabor221 | but its nice and smooth :) |
| 17:41.27 | prot-work | well the mouse coord thing can be fixed |
| 17:41.51 | prot-work | it will always feel a little laggy, due to how it works |
| 17:42.02 | Patlabor221 | yeah I know |
| 17:42.26 | Patlabor221 | optimaly for an editor you would want the same point on the map under the cursor as you drag it |
| 17:42.37 | Patlabor221 | but perspective would screw that |
| 17:42.42 | Patlabor221 | do you have an ortho mod? |
| 17:43.18 | prot-work | it'll do ortho if the view's fov isn't set |
| 17:43.30 | prot-work | but i don't like ortho at all, because you can't do stereo with it |
| 17:43.51 | Patlabor221 | yes but for editing flat views it could be nice |
| 17:44.09 | prot-work | who needs flat views? :) |
| 17:44.14 | Patlabor221 | not everyone has your sterio tank |
| 17:44.24 | Patlabor221 | allways the student aren't you?" :) |
| 17:44.30 | prot-work | they can get anaglyph glasses for free |
| 17:44.42 | prot-work | ;-) |
| 17:44.48 | Patlabor221 | not the best editor interface there man |
| 17:45.05 | Patlabor221 | but then if you want it just be a toy then thats fine :) |
| 17:45.17 | fiberchunks | how does one light off the editor? |
| 17:45.22 | prot-work | however, i've decided that this one i'm writing for me |
| 17:45.35 | prot-work | so i'm not going to do too much support or user requests |
| 17:47.21 | prot-work | its always nice to create something useful, but in this case, i want to create something fun |
| 17:47.36 | Patlabor221 | fun is good |
| 17:47.44 | prot-work | freakin' hell |
| 17:47.52 | prot-work | i need to install povray to install imagemagick? |
| 17:48.24 | fiberchunks | shouldn't have to no |
| 17:48.35 | Patlabor221 | I didn't have to in debian |
| 17:48.39 | Patlabor221 | before the evil |
| 17:48.56 | prot-work | the sgi freeware is always built with every freaking feature enabled |
| 17:49.04 | prot-work | so dependencies are hellish |
| 17:51.46 | prot-work | omg |
| 17:51.55 | prot-work | i finished dependencifying |
| 17:51.59 | prot-work | and its installing... |
| 17:53.38 | JBDiGriz | fiberchunks: Did you reorganize the netmeeting wiki? |
| 17:53.50 | fiberchunks | I chopped out a section -- the last one |
| 17:53.58 | fiberchunks | but aside from that I haven't touched it |
| 17:54.17 | JBDiGriz | The new outline format looks really good! It seems to have changed more than just one section. |
| 17:54.43 | fiberchunks | well, I cleaned that up a bit, but someone else may have diddled it |
| 17:55.37 | fiberchunks | yeah, that's just my cleanup |
| 17:57.12 | Patlabor221 | cap is there a texture matrix? |
| 17:57.36 | prot-work | ...texture matrix? |
| 17:57.57 | Patlabor221 | like to transform UV cords before they are appied? |
| 17:58.46 | prot-work | no |
| 17:59.33 | prot-work | http://jupiter.babylonia.flatirons.org/irix.png |
| 17:59.38 | fiberchunks | JBDiGriz> the outline got hosered since vi is in tabs, and pasting to a web window expands the tabs, so some of the items were all over the place :\ |
| 18:00.06 | fiberchunks | spiffy, but where's the teleporters? |
| 18:00.52 | prot-work | hrm, good question |
| 18:02.24 | JBDiGriz | fiberchunks: The way it looks now is very readable, and can easily be used for implementation. Thanks for putting it together! |
| 18:02.31 | fiberchunks | np |
| 18:02.40 | Patlabor221 | this dosn't look quire right does it? http://www.bakadigital.com/crome.jpg |
| 18:02.52 | prot-work | there, i recaptured and it has teleporters now |
| 18:03.13 | fiberchunks | Patlabor221> 404 |
| 18:03.55 | Patlabor221 | bah, http://www.bakadigital.com/crome.JPG |
| 18:04.15 | fiberchunks | ooo, I like it >=) |
| 18:04.22 | Patlabor221 | I don't think it's right tho |
| 18:04.41 | fiberchunks | but yes, it doesn't look right (the concept is nice though ;) ) |
| 18:05.00 | Patlabor221 | yes I want to turn all tanks into crome hottoes |
| 18:05.02 | fiberchunks | the feet are huge proportionally |
| 18:05.06 | fiberchunks | lol |
| 18:05.15 | Patlabor221 | not my model |
| 18:05.24 | fiberchunks | and her butt is too big (but that may be preference) |
| 18:05.44 | fiberchunks | but then, I digress... |
| 18:06.41 | prot-work | hah |
| 18:06.49 | prot-work | this machine gets the same framerate as mine at home |
| 18:07.05 | prot-work | and its severly cpu limited...so my only guess is that the display list calls are near instant |
| 18:09.19 | prot-work | yay for hardware made in 19965 |
| 18:09.23 | prot-work | err |
| 18:09.25 | prot-work | 1996 |
| 18:09.46 | fiberchunks | wow, future hardware -- 'where does he get all these amazing toys?' ;) |
| 18:10.59 | Patlabor221 | all there is a texture matrix |
| 18:11.01 | prot-work | scanline: POKE POKE POKE |
| 18:12.19 | prot-work | Patlabor221: huh? english please |
| 18:12.52 | Patlabor221 | glMatrixMode(GL_TEXTURE) Applies subsequent matrix operations to the texture matrix stack. |
| 18:13.26 | Patlabor221 | I'm using glTexGen and the default sphere map uses a repeat rad of 1 |
| 18:14.12 | Patlabor221 | so it looks like I use the texture matrix to scale that up to fit the object |
| 18:14.31 | Patlabor221 | I think |
| 18:16.19 | prot-work | makes sense |
| 18:16.56 | Patlabor221 | in all the samples I have seen the objects are conviniently 1 unit in rad or less |
| 18:17.08 | *** join/#bzflag learnerTesting (sean@chr160dhcp1675.chrchv01.md.comcast.net) |
| 18:17.41 | *** join/#bzflag learnerAtWork (sean@chr160dhcp1675.chrchv01.md.comcast.net) |
| 18:18.16 | prot-work | learnerAtWork: http://jupiter.babylonia.flatirons.org/irix.png |
| 18:19.11 | learnerAtWork | awesome |
| 18:21.00 | learnerAtWork | cap: http://www.sgi.com/workstations/tezro/ |
| 18:23.58 | prot-work | i'm more impressed by the new onyx4 |
| 18:24.01 | prot-work | droooooooool |
| 18:24.09 | prot-work | its got fragment programs!!! |
| 18:24.54 | Patlabor221 | shaders |
| 18:25.04 | learnerAtWork | yes good stuff |
| 18:25.05 | prot-work | some call them shaders |
| 18:25.08 | prot-work | i call them programs |
| 18:25.17 | prot-work | since "vertex shader" is kind of a misnomer |
| 18:25.51 | learnerAtWork | we were just drooling over the onxy4's too |
| 18:26.04 | prot-work | and FSAA!! |
| 18:26.08 | prot-work | in a viz server! |
| 18:26.13 | learnerAtWork | hehe, not quite general enough for me to call them programs yet |
| 18:26.21 | prot-work | they're general enough |
| 18:26.24 | learnerAtWork | maybe next month :) |
| 18:26.38 | prot-work | the assembly language for them is turing complete |
| 18:27.25 | prot-work | but - ohh man |
| 18:27.37 | prot-work | their "deskside" config (4u) looks beautiful |
| 18:27.45 | prot-work | its a shame that the minimum system is 45k |
| 18:27.46 | learnerAtWork | that's why I think I'll call them programs soon enough.. the guys working on general api's are going to make programming for them a breeze |
| 18:28.01 | learnerAtWork | do you know cpu specs? |
| 18:28.08 | prot-work | i'm sure they're r16k |
| 18:28.09 | learnerAtWork | couldn't find anything other than 'it's mips" |
| 18:28.35 | prot-work | i've never known them to put anything less than their fastest processor in the onyxes |
| 18:28.57 | learnerAtWork | I'm just wandering/hoping there is something >r16k :) |
| 18:28.59 | prot-work | workstations have options, with the onyx the only question is "how big?" |
| 18:29.06 | prot-work | nope, r16k is the latest mips |
| 18:29.09 | prot-work | 700MHz |
| 18:29.27 | learnerAtWork | you don't think there'll be a new chip in time for siggraph? |
| 18:29.32 | prot-work | maybe |
| 18:29.37 | prot-work | r16k is really very fast |
| 18:29.55 | prot-work | can't quite beat a 2.5G pentium, but when you've got 20 of them it doesn't really matter |
| 18:30.12 | prot-work | and the graphics pipes are what really do the work on an onyx |
| 18:30.33 | learnerAtWork | yes, you have to have an I/O need to warrant one of those machines |
| 18:30.38 | prot-work | (the base config can push 9.8 Gpixels/s :P~) |
| 18:31.57 | learnerAtWork | just got back from subway. yum |
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| 18:44.08 | learnerAtWork | wow, apparently they are using ATI chips/cards for the graphics.. |
| 18:44.55 | learnerAtWork | ah yes, and they are r16k's, up to 64-way |
| 18:45.15 | learnerAtWork | http://news.com.com/2100-1010_3-1025324.html?tag=fd_top |
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| 19:08.06 | Roadkill | What should I do about someone stealing my callsign? I've been using it for about a year and now someone else has started to use it. I've attempted to register it on this irc server but can't. |
| 19:08.33 | learnerAtWork | did they register it? |
| 19:09.05 | Roadkill | Well, it seem that they have. I can't because it has been register already. |
| 19:09.37 | learnerAtWork | afaik, if they registered it before you, you are SOL unless they're willing to pass it over to you |
| 19:10.01 | fiberchunks | foobar! hi all |
| 19:10.06 | learnerAtWork | if they don't use it, it'll time out in a couple months |
| 19:10.20 | learnerAtWork | hey, fiber, how's in goin' |
| 19:10.27 | fiberchunks | swimmingly |
| 19:10.31 | Roadkill | That's what I thought..., How would I contact the person how has registered it? |
| 19:10.40 | learnerAtWork | send them a mesg |
| 19:11.05 | fiberchunks | I am now clean, and feel mighty! :) |
| 19:11.45 | learnerAtWork | heh |
| 19:11.46 | Roadkill | I have no idea who to send it to. I was able to change my nick to Roadkill. |
| 19:12.34 | fiberchunks | well, there must be a db somewhere of all the registered names -- you could /msg lilo (the freenode owner) and quiz him/her about it I imagine |
| 19:12.51 | Roadkill | Thanks |
| 19:13.17 | fiberchunks | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:13.17 | fiberchunks | -NickServ- roadkill created 41 weeks (4h 13m 56s) ago |
| 19:13.17 | fiberchunks | -NickServ- -- End of list (1/1 matches shown) -- |
| 19:13.33 | learnerAtWork | wow, almost a year ago |
| 19:13.51 | fiberchunks | also, you can do this -- and fiddle with things /msg nickserv help |
| 19:13.58 | Roadkill | Thanks |
| 19:14.01 | fiberchunks | np |
| 19:14.12 | learnerAtWork | maybe you registered and just don't remember :) |
| 19:14.27 | fiberchunks | heh, that's very possible |
| 19:14.49 | learnerAtWork | I forget my password all the time in here .. :/ |
| 19:15.19 | fiberchunks | I register so often that I can't forget it -- it's burned in the 'useless trivia' part of my brain (about 95% of total volume) ;) |
| 19:16.36 | learnerAtWork | heh |
| 19:16.59 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@63.147.94.145) |
| 19:16.59 | learnerAtWork | mine is a tight security policy -- even I can't remember it ;) |
| 19:17.23 | fiberchunks | oh damn, I just dropped myself :\ |
| 19:17.34 | learnerAtWork | what's the name of the mesg service? |
| 19:17.54 | fiberchunks | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:18.09 | learnerAtWork | that's the nickserv, not the message service |
| 19:18.43 | learnerAtWork | it's like mesgserv or msgserv or something |
| 19:18.47 | bryjen | MemoServ ? |
| 19:18.52 | learnerAtWork | ah, yes, that's it |
| 19:18.53 | fiberchunks | that's it |
| 19:22.01 | fiberchunks | see, isn't that just fancy :) |
| 19:22.10 | learnerAtWork | heh |
| 19:22.55 | learnerAtWork | we need a nickserv and memoserv for bzflag |
| 19:23.05 | learnerAtWork | and an ibot |
| 19:23.11 | learnerAtWork | and /me actions |
| 19:23.41 | fiberchunks | well, we've an ibot |
| 19:23.41 | Patlabor221 | you have nickserv |
| 19:23.48 | fiberchunks | and memoserv |
| 19:23.53 | learnerAtWork | kinda |
| 19:24.02 | fiberchunks | not a specific channel one though |
| 19:24.16 | Patlabor221 | what other services you want in BZ? |
| 19:24.38 | fiberchunks | oh oh, you mean for the game! ;) /me thwacks head |
| 19:25.14 | learnerAtWork | right now it's a set of loosly grouped "commands", it'd be nice if they were distinct service modules |
| 19:25.24 | Patlabor221 | lots of things would be nice |
| 19:25.33 | learnerAtWork | :) yea, I guess |
| 19:25.36 | fiberchunks | messaging.py << get on it learnerAtWork ;) |
| 19:25.39 | Patlabor221 | like the crome hottie |
| 19:25.47 | fiberchunks | crome tank hotties |
| 19:25.50 | fiberchunks | :) |
| 19:26.01 | fiberchunks | smoke break zones |
| 19:26.18 | learnerAtWork | champagne rooms? |
| 19:26.23 | fiberchunks | VIP rooms ;) |
| 19:26.30 | learnerAtWork | :) |
| 19:26.46 | fiberchunks | bawmp chicka bawmp bawmp, chicka chicka chicka |
| 19:27.26 | fiberchunks | little map defined zones where specific .oggs play |
| 19:27.33 | learnerAtWork | link it automatically to a beasty karma system so that only respected players could get in |
| 19:27.39 | fiberchunks | <secret room> |
| 19:27.49 | fiberchunks | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:27.54 | fiberchunks | </secret room> |
| 19:28.18 | learnerAtWork | *bromp* *bink* *boo* *dah* |
| 19:28.22 | fiberchunks | the 'bling bling' rating |
| 19:28.27 | learnerAtWork | heh |
| 19:29.12 | fiberchunks | Patlabor221> I have given this much thought: 'wheelless vehicles of DOOM, for great justice!' |
| 19:29.38 | Patlabor221 | bit long that is |
| 19:29.44 | fiberchunks | 'now with 20% more crome tank hotties!' (TM) |
| 19:30.12 | JBDiGriz | It's too early on the east coast for the conversation to have degenerated so quickly! |
| 19:30.17 | fiberchunks | :) |
| 19:30.39 | Patlabor221 | if I can get it to look right |
| 19:31.08 | JBDiGriz | call them wheevod for short |
| 19:31.34 | fiberchunks | call it the puma |
| 19:31.44 | Patlabor221 | cupathingy |
| 19:31.46 | fiberchunks | or the warthog, or some other mythical creature ;) |
| 19:31.58 | learnerAtWork | I don't know if I wanna know what puma would stand for :) |
| 19:32.02 | fiberchunks | cupathingy - there it is :) |
| 19:32.08 | Patlabor221 | now what did I tell you about makin up animals |
| 19:32.27 | fiberchunks | 'what _the hell_ is that?!?' |
| 19:32.42 | fiberchunks | shiela!!!!! noooooooo |
| 19:32.45 | JBDiGriz | Shoot it, stuff it, mount it. |
| 19:32.48 | Patlabor221 | ep 12 had a good line "now could put put that in a memo and entitle it, sh$t I allready know?" |
| 19:33.01 | fiberchunks | lol, yah, watched that one last night :) |
| 19:34.08 | Patlabor221 | they deifnalyt have some good wrighters |
| 19:34.16 | fiberchunks | yes, they do |
| 19:34.20 | *** join/#bzflag Nugget (Nugget@24-161-14-129.hvc.rr.com) |
| 19:34.34 | Patlabor221 | tho I think BZ needs the line tucker uses when caboose kills church |
| 19:34.56 | fiberchunks | can't remember -- what is it? |
| 19:35.10 | Patlabor221 | "team killing f**ktards" |
| 19:35.21 | fiberchunks | lol -- yeah -- :D |
| 19:35.53 | Patlabor221 | tho that would not make it thru some of the famialy filters |
| 19:35.53 | fiberchunks | bzmsg >> you have killed a teammate -- c**kbite! |
| 19:36.26 | Patlabor221 | "why are there 6 peddals and only 4 directions?!?!" |
| 19:36.32 | fiberchunks | lol |
| 19:36.58 | fiberchunks | in case learnerAtWork and JBDiGriz are totally confused -- this is all from a thing called 'red vs. blue' it is entirely too funny -- check it out |
| 19:37.12 | Patlabor221 | that they do |
| 19:37.33 | Patlabor221 | but it does have some words that are not for the faint of heart, or the faint of butt, |
| 19:37.47 | fiberchunks | so don't watch it at work learnerAtWork ;) |
| 19:38.13 | fiberchunks | http://redvsblue.com/ |
| 19:38.46 | Patlabor221 | ohh get the high res ones I have |
| 19:39.11 | Patlabor221 | http://bakadigital.com/darkmoor-noshare/movie/BloodGulch/ |
| 19:39.21 | fiberchunks | ah yes -- it seems they are killing the server for new episode |
| 19:39.30 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 19:39.37 | Patlabor221 | username dark |
| 19:39.41 | Patlabor221 | password d3ll |
| 19:40.09 | learnerAtWork | eek |
| 19:40.12 | JBDiGriz | What are they going to do, fire me? I'm a contractor, I'm already unemployed! |
| 19:40.15 | learnerAtWork | I'll have to try it when I get home |
| 19:40.23 | learnerAtWork | don't have the avi codec installed here |
| 19:40.32 | Patlabor221 | it's divx |
| 19:40.39 | learnerAtWork | that's what I meant |
| 19:41.03 | fiberchunks | JBDiGriz> heh, then download away :) |
| 19:41.17 | fiberchunks | start at episode 01 though -- they are sequential |
| 19:42.06 | Mayhem | ~dict crome |
| 19:42.10 | Mayhem | ~dict chrome |
| 19:42.13 | fiberchunks | chrome |
| 19:42.29 | Mayhem | I know, I'm just making a subtle point for Patlabor221 :) |
| 19:42.50 | Patlabor221 | ~ban-everyone |
| 19:42.54 | | : are you sure you want to ban everyone? <Y,n,a> |
| 19:42.54 | fiberchunks | it is a well known fact that herr labor is a 'less than perfect' speller :) |
| 19:43.00 | Patlabor221 | Y |
| 19:43.05 | learnerAtWork | heh |
| 19:43.26 | Mayhem | that should be - Abort, Retry, Fail :p |
| 19:43.28 | Patlabor221 | the english language is 95% exceptions |
| 19:43.48 | JBDiGriz | That must be why it's not working, ibot just blue-screened! |
| 19:43.59 | learnerAtWork | "Yes", "no", and "anybody's guess" |
| 19:44.04 | david_v | lol |
| 19:44.07 | Mayhem | yes, but you were trying to use a word, not make up a new one. |
| 19:44.09 | david_v | at JBDiGriz |
| 19:44.59 | fiberchunks | try: spell except: all |
| 19:45.03 | fiberchunks | raise |
| 19:45.25 | Patlabor221 | well since it's not working properly maybe it is crome |
| 19:48.37 | learnerAtWork | anyone here familiar with ntalkd? |
| 19:48.49 | fiberchunks | nope |
| 19:49.51 | Mayhem | learnerAtWork: used to use talk a bit, but never had much call to play with the daemon |
| 19:50.31 | *** join/#bzflag bzgirl (~brat@toronto-hs-64-26-176-100.s-ip.magma.ca) |
| 19:50.34 | fiberchunks | a memoserv function for bzflag would be incredibly useful, on deeper thought |
| 19:51.11 | learnerAtWork | quite, even for only single-server messages, though globablly would be cool too |
| 19:51.11 | Patlabor221 | it would be rather easy to hook up with the registration commands |
| 19:51.39 | fiberchunks | it would be nice if you light off bzflag, connect to list serv, and any messages for you were there |
| 19:51.41 | learnerAtWork | perhaps after we get some sort of bzflag network with servers chatting to one another, it'd be a little more reasonable to implement |
| 19:51.48 | fiberchunks | indeed |
| 19:52.01 | fiberchunks | and that 'lobby' type idea that was batted about a while ago |
| 19:52.03 | Patlabor221 | you could put it in to the list server |
| 19:52.11 | Patlabor221 | since all server talk to it |
| 19:52.22 | fiberchunks | that's what I was thinking (except for lan thangs) |
| 19:52.40 | Patlabor221 | but then you could have issues with multiple people with the same regiration name |
| 19:52.40 | fiberchunks | but those use their own bzfls don't they? |
| 19:53.03 | Patlabor221 | realy you need to have it done in the same place as the centeral username database. |
| 19:53.03 | fiberchunks | well, again, solved with karma (or whatever system is decided upon for that functionality) |
| 19:53.09 | fiberchunks | right |
| 19:53.20 | Patlabor221 | I wish people would stop calling it that |
| 19:53.32 | Patlabor221 | karam is a feature built on top of a centeral user database |
| 19:53.49 | Patlabor221 | you can have the database with out karama |
| 19:53.52 | fiberchunks | well, CUD is kinda appalling dontcha think :) |
| 19:54.12 | fiberchunks | ~dict cud |
| 19:54.18 | Patlabor221 | jsut call it user reg then |
| 19:54.34 | fiberchunks | fair enough |
| 19:54.54 | JBDiGriz | common user reg == cur |
| 19:55.00 | Patlabor221 | karma is realy just flair on top of the more important part of user reg |
| 19:55.02 | learnerAtWork | when I say karma, I pretty much only refer to some sort of user-reliability rating system |
| 19:55.15 | Patlabor221 | as it should be |
| 19:55.22 | learnerAtWork | that could be tacked onto a user database or not |
| 19:55.26 | learnerAtWork | it's not? |
| 19:55.29 | fiberchunks | I mean it in the sense of a server knows who you are, and assigns some sort of rating to you |
| 19:55.36 | learnerAtWork | ah |
| 19:55.43 | Patlabor221 | it's planed to be put on top of the db |
| 19:55.54 | fiberchunks | so it's like the 'whole picture' pat is talking about |
| 19:55.56 | Patlabor221 | the server knowing who you are is the big part |
| 19:56.03 | fiberchunks | indeed |
| 19:56.08 | Patlabor221 | krama is just going to be a method for abuse, imho |
| 19:56.26 | fiberchunks | are there machinations for 1.9 inclusion of 'central user reg' ? |
| 19:56.45 | Patlabor221 | that wasn't discussed at the net meeting? |
| 19:56.52 | JBDiGriz | ~dict cur |
| 19:57.02 | bryjen | sheesh /in/ spelling |
| 19:57.04 | JBDiGriz | your karma just ran over my dogma |
| 19:57.06 | learnerAtWork | call it the "curry" system |
| 19:57.22 | fiberchunks | capt and scan would love the 'curry' system |
| 19:57.23 | learnerAtWork | lol, jb |
| 19:58.10 | fiberchunks | Patlabor221> I know that your user reg stuff is applicable -- but is it going to be a 'central' or 'per server' user reg thing? |
| 19:58.29 | Patlabor221 | it could esaly be made centeral |
| 19:59.03 | Patlabor221 | there just needs to be a decision on where to put the server and what it should do ( sql, custom stuff, etc) |
| 19:59.11 | fiberchunks | ah |
| 19:59.20 | learnerAtWork | It would be nice to not have a single point of failure |
| 19:59.26 | learnerAtWork | i.e. the list server |
| 19:59.38 | Patlabor221 | I concur |
| 19:59.44 | learnerAtWork | some sort of distributed network would be more fault tolerant |
| 19:59.49 | *** join/#bzflag Chikorita (~peacemkkr@205.197.172.222) |
| 19:59.52 | learnerAtWork | perhaps even peer to peer |
| 19:59.52 | Patlabor221 | I would like to see a sepearate database server |
| 19:59.57 | fiberchunks | well, if the 'mirroring the listserv' idea from the net meeting got implemented, then that wouldn't be an issue |
| 20:00.02 | Chikorita | hi all |
| 20:00.05 | Patlabor221 | that uses it's own protocoll, then does what ever it needs to get to the back end |
| 20:00.06 | learnerAtWork | true, fiber |
| 20:00.08 | learnerAtWork | hi, chika |
| 20:00.13 | Patlabor221 | so server groups could use there own lists |
| 20:00.26 | Patlabor221 | one DB for every server out there won't cut it. |
| 20:00.42 | learnerAtWork | it would be conventient to have a whole "server network" channel to pass messages around on |
| 20:00.53 | fiberchunks | well, then there must be some sort of mechanism for data sharing between the db servers, no? |
| 20:01.03 | learnerAtWork | servers could handle any chatter they desired |
| 20:01.04 | fiberchunks | s/mechanism/secure mechanism |
| 20:01.08 | Patlabor221 | fiber that could be optional |
| 20:01.16 | Patlabor221 | but some people may want there own private databases |
| 20:01.24 | Patlabor221 | like for the leauge |
| 20:01.26 | fiberchunks | good point |
| 20:01.29 | learnerAtWork | that wouldn't be a problem |
| 20:02.07 | learnerAtWork | in the sense that servers could be started only caring about certain message classes |
| 20:02.27 | Chikorita | u mean ...talk to peeps from 1 server to da next? |
| 20:02.27 | Chikorita | im losted.. |
| 20:02.33 | fiberchunks | a reliance on a db for the thing might cause initial grief with server owners -- the reason it's nice now is the ease with which one can get a server going |
| 20:02.55 | fiberchunks | when I say db, I mean mysql, pgsql, etc |
| 20:02.57 | Patlabor221 | the entire DB would be optional as it is now |
| 20:03.03 | fiberchunks | not the user db as it is |
| 20:03.05 | fiberchunks | ah, ic |
| 20:03.29 | Patlabor221 | thats why I think there shoudl be our own server that interfaces to sql or what have you |
| 20:03.36 | Patlabor221 | then you can change the backend at will |
| 20:03.42 | Patlabor221 | with out affecting the servers |
| 20:03.46 | fiberchunks | gotcha |
| 20:04.02 | Patlabor221 | cus who knows that there won't be a "super dupper psql" next year |
| 20:04.12 | Patlabor221 | or bobql |
| 20:04.22 | fiberchunks | simmonssql |
| 20:04.47 | Patlabor221 | sure it's easy to put one protocoll in the raw game, but it forces everyone to use it. |
| 20:05.33 | fiberchunks | however, one protocol is easier to maintain than 2 |
| 20:05.43 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 20:06.17 | Patlabor221 | but if we make it our own protocll, 1) it does what we want it, no more no less, all we have to do is maintain that. It's up to each implelmtation of the server to take care of the back end |
| 20:06.34 | Patlabor221 | so somone makes one with a sql backend, when it's done, it's done. |
| 20:06.40 | Patlabor221 | or maybe even a flat file. |
| 20:06.44 | Patlabor221 | or what ever |
| 20:06.44 | fiberchunks | true |
| 20:10.00 | *** join/#bzflag sussudio (Suss@81.68.132.217) |
| 20:11.16 | Chikorita | aww david heehe |
| 20:11.22 | Chikorita | lol fiber |
| 20:11.31 | Chikorita | poor wall |
| 20:11.39 | Chikorita | now it prolly needs sum spackle |
| 20:12.31 | fiberchunks | nah, it's concrete |
| 20:19.08 | Chikorita | wb capn |
| 20:19.15 | learnerAtWork | oh, then better to not bang your head against it, fiber :o |
| 20:24.38 | fiberchunks | I do that for pleasure in my off-time learner ;) |
| 20:37.27 | Chikorita | bbl |
| 20:38.46 | prot-work | argh |
| 20:38.50 | prot-work | they keep having power outages here |
| 20:39.13 | *** join/#bzflag Nugget (Nugget@24-161-14-129.hvc.rr.com) |
| 20:39.23 | scanline | hey, navi's still up |
| 20:39.30 | scanline | so the power outages weren't too widespread :) |
| 20:39.45 | prot-work | i wonder if bhaskara is up |
| 20:40.06 | scanline | we |
| 20:40.07 | scanline | er |
| 20:40.12 | scanline | we're looking for a UPS for the flight hardware :) |
| 20:40.33 | prot-work | well, my uptime is 14 days, so i think i'm good |
| 20:41.04 | prot-work | scanline: if you're still notbusy, you could fix anaglyph ;) |
| 20:42.48 | learnerAtWork | yay, ibm nda arrived |
| 20:47.25 | scanline | prot-work: |
| 20:48.41 | scanline | er |
| 20:48.55 | scanline | bah, none of the UPSes here work |
| 20:49.07 | scanline | so if I have anything to say about it, we won't be doing this test until wednesday :-/ |
| 20:53.12 | scanline | hey, didn't realize it was already so late |
| 20:53.28 | scanline | damn that broken breakout box sucked up a lot of time.... |
| 20:54.26 | prot-work | hmm, more interesting stuff |
| 20:54.31 | prot-work | you could fix anaglyph |
| 20:55.51 | scanline | hmm, yes.. |
| 20:56.01 | scanline | if I came down there, would there be a computer I could fix anaglyph on? |
| 20:57.56 | *** join/#bzflag JBDiGriz (~JBDiGriz@216.188.65.26) |
| 20:58.58 | Noodleman | http://sean.swallow.org/bill_of_no_rights.txt |
| 21:01.40 | prot-work | yes |
| 21:01.42 | prot-work | there are many computers |
| 21:03.50 | Patlabor221 | whoot, got environ maping working :) |
| 21:07.39 | *** part/#bzflag Roadkill (~mikep@169.207.150.18) |
| 21:09.43 | Patlabor221 | fiber, hows this? http://www.bakadigital.com/shinny-pants.jpg |
| 21:10.51 | learnerAtWork | oh, nice |
| 21:11.01 | learnerAtWork | can she drive my tank? |
| 21:11.25 | Patlabor221 | well then you would have to be her. |
| 21:11.36 | bzgirl | Patlabor221: you been messing with my pic? |
| 21:11.49 | Patlabor221 | yeah sorry |
| 21:11.58 | Patlabor221 | I felt you needed shinny shinny pants |
| 21:12.00 | JBDiGriz | That's all they have to mess with, poor lads. |
| 21:12.09 | bzgirl | heh |
| 21:12.20 | Patlabor221 | I still have to add the freckles |
| 21:12.22 | learnerAtWork | :) |
| 21:12.25 | learnerAtWork | LOL!!!!! |
| 21:12.51 | bzgirl | be quiet learner, i only have freckles in the summer |
| 21:13.06 | learnerAtWork | :) hehe, sure |
| 21:13.21 | Patlabor221 | well at least the skin based environ maping is working |
| 21:13.26 | Patlabor221 | tho it takes 2 passes |
| 21:14.03 | prot-work | environment /win 5 |
| 21:14.05 | prot-work | err |
| 21:14.20 | Patlabor221 | well fake env maping |
| 21:18.12 | fiberchunks | her hamstrings are too small, calves are too tall and too thin, and where's her kneecaps? :) |
| 21:18.25 | Patlabor221 | I didn't make it |
| 21:18.32 | Patlabor221 | I just made the pants shinny |
| 21:18.46 | fiberchunks | well, you wanted to know what was wrong with it :) but yeah, I like the shiny pants :) |
| 21:18.57 | Patlabor221 | and now fixed the alpha problem |
| 21:19.01 | Patlabor221 | you could see thru her ass |
| 21:19.03 | Patlabor221 | not good |
| 21:19.59 | *** join/#bzflag lurgy`work (~lurgyman@161.97.199.99) |
| 21:20.07 | lurgy`work | herbert RETURNS! |
| 21:20.08 | *** part/#bzflag lurgy`work (~lurgyman@161.97.199.99) |
| 21:21.01 | Patlabor221 | the model is from here |
| 21:21.01 | Patlabor221 | http://www.planetquake.com/polycount/info/ut/abbeychase/abbeychase.shtml |
| 21:45.06 | CIA | 03davidtrowbridge * 12pybzflag/BZFlag/UI (2 files): fixinate anaglyph stereo |
| 21:56.50 | *** part/#bzflag david_v (~david_v@c213-200-135-241.cm-upc.chello.se) |
| 21:59.29 | Patlabor221 | yay it's 8bit:o'clock |
| 22:04.55 | bryjen | Patlabor221: what time? |
| 22:05.12 | Patlabor221 | 2:56 |
| 22:07.03 | *** join/#bzflag david_v (~david_v@c213-200-135-241.cm-upc.chello.se) |
| 22:09.05 | bzgirl | ~seen [dmp] |
| 22:09.06 | | [dmp] <~dennis@3E6B486F.aalb.stofanet.dk> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 12d 30m 5s ago, saying: 'it didnt work :)'. |
| 22:11.30 | david_v | yep, and now we recall why he isn't back yet :) |
| 22:11.47 | bzgirl | is he on vacation? |
| 22:11.58 | david_v | well, somebody said that, that's a more decent idea :) |
| 22:12.11 | CIA | 03davidtrowbridge * 12pybzflag/BZFlag/UI (Drawable.py): you know you're working on the right piece of software when it takes longer to think up a commit message than it does to fix the bug |
| 22:12.15 | david_v | i mailed him before and didn't get any answer yet, so i guess so |
| 22:13.02 | learnerAtWork | lol, cap, nice commit |
| 22:14.57 | fiberchunks | for any of you interested, pics of my car's wreckage are here: http://fiberchunks.bakadigital.com/wreck/wreck.html |
| 22:16.28 | learnerAtWork | yikes fiber |
| 22:16.34 | learnerAtWork | everyone ok? |
| 22:17.41 | bzgirl | this was the hit and run guy? |
| 22:17.56 | fiberchunks | yah |
| 22:18.00 | bzgirl | grr |
| 22:18.01 | fiberchunks | er, yes and yes |
| 22:18.05 | fiberchunks | :) |
| 22:18.18 | Patlabor221 | did they find the bastard? |
| 22:18.19 | *** join/#bzflag Chikorita (~peacemkkr@205.197.172.222) |
| 22:18.28 | Chikorita | back |
| 22:18.33 | Chikorita | dat was fun :) |
| 22:18.40 | Chikorita | ~d |
| 22:18.49 | fiberchunks | no, regretfully, and with a month + having gone by, I doubt they ever will -- that's alright though -- karma will kick his ass :) |
| 22:18.55 | Mayhem | Oh, I just remembered dmp said he was visiting his parents for a while... |
| 22:19.09 | david_v | and NOW you say it :) hm |
| 22:19.18 | *** join/#bzflag Carnage (strayer@dyn216-8-175-45.ADSL.mnsi.net) |
| 22:19.28 | Chikorita | hi carny hi david |
| 22:19.41 | Chikorita | oops carny went bye bye |
| 22:19.42 | david_v | hey Carnage-quickie and re Chiko :) |
| 22:19.53 | Chikorita | heh |
| 22:21.47 | Chikorita | ~d |
| 22:22.20 | fiberchunks | bzgirl is free to uploads hundreds of them, if she likes :) |
| 22:22.24 | bzgirl | :) |
| 22:22.43 | bzgirl | digital-girl has a bunch |
| 22:23.00 | Patlabor221 | yonk em down and make a gallery for them |
| 22:23.18 | fiberchunks | mmm hmm |
| 22:23.22 | fiberchunks | yoink! |
| 22:23.28 | Chikorita | i found a really good avatar buh it was too many pixels :( |
| 22:23.33 | fiberchunks | yoikes! and away! |
| 22:23.39 | Patlabor221 | how large was it? |
| 22:23.42 | bzgirl | yours is great Chikorita |
| 22:23.46 | Patlabor221 | I made the sizes HUGE |
| 22:24.01 | fiberchunks | I noticed that -- are they bigger than 128x128 now? |
| 22:24.06 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 22:24.16 | Patlabor221 | had to up it to fit your dancing girl |
| 22:24.22 | fiberchunks | lol |
| 22:24.37 | Patlabor221 | tho it's only like 160 wide |
| 22:24.41 | Patlabor221 | so not too bad |
| 22:25.05 | Patlabor221 | figured it wouldn't hurt to let them be longer then wide, we do have the vertical room |
| 22:25.25 | learnerAtWork | fiber that spastic anime was craazy |
| 22:25.59 | fiberchunks | oh yeah, plenty o V room -- just gotta be careful with width, or the 800x600 crowd will get displeased |
| 22:26.05 | fiberchunks | don't you dare :) |
| 22:26.22 | Patlabor221 | I don't care much about the 800x600 crowd :) |
| 22:26.36 | Patlabor221 | they can come to the 21st centry and get real monitors |
| 22:26.41 | fiberchunks | lol |
| 22:26.44 | Chikorita | i was gonna make da chiko roll mah avatar |
| 22:26.47 | Chikorita | heehe |
| 22:26.52 | Chikorita | buh it 2 big ums |
| 22:26.56 | *** join/#bzflag SGI (~SGI@pcp01642968pcs.sothfd01.mi.comcast.net) |
| 22:27.01 | Chikorita | hi sgi |
| 22:27.02 | Patlabor221 | it's set to like 50k now |
| 22:27.07 | Chikorita | o okies |
| 22:27.08 | bzgirl | nah, chiko roll isnt that big |
| 22:27.08 | fiberchunks | SGI those pics are posted now |
| 22:27.11 | Patlabor221 | that shoudl be large enought for most thing |
| 22:27.40 | Mayhem | Chikorita: you could shrink the image |
| 22:27.58 | Chikorita | i tried buh it sed "too dam big , too dam bad.." |
| 22:28.05 | Chikorita | j/k |
| 22:28.15 | Chikorita | well it was sumtin in those lines... |
| 22:28.16 | fiberchunks | wow, what program was that? I want it ;) |
| 22:28.19 | Patlabor221 | send it to me and I can make it fit |
| 22:28.20 | Chikorita | LoL |
| 22:28.35 | Chikorita | itz a meanie prog ..sum grump made it prolly |
| 22:28.43 | Chikorita | kk pat |
| 22:28.46 | fiberchunks | fits my personality to a T |
| 22:28.52 | Chikorita | i wil do :) |
| 22:28.55 | Chikorita | haha fiber |
| 22:28.57 | Patlabor221 | so that's why you use gimp? |
| 22:29.16 | Patlabor221 | jsut rename it grump |
| 22:29.19 | bzgirl | http://www.upfromaustralia.com/chikoroll.html |
| 22:29.36 | Chikorita | heh ya dats mee :P |
| 22:29.38 | fiberchunks | Patlabor221> ha -- grokking the grump |
| 22:29.47 | bzgirl | its only 138x250 |
| 22:29.53 | Patlabor221 | that should fit just fine |
| 22:29.54 | Chikorita | imma put it on mah rebel league site one day |
| 22:30.08 | Chikorita | "chikorita's Corner" :) |
| 22:30.14 | Patlabor221 | chik, do you want me to set this as your avatar? |
| 22:30.16 | fiberchunks | I can't believe they left off vegimite for 'things australian' |
| 22:30.28 | Chikorita | umm i dunno ... |
| 22:30.33 | Chikorita | lol |
| 22:30.36 | Mayhem | you need http://www.simplot.com.au/_images/pages/brands_chiko_top.gif without the outside bit |
| 22:30.38 | Patlabor221 | it shoyudl fit just fine |
| 22:30.47 | Chikorita | i tink i saw anutha 1 i liked ...im still lookin |
| 22:31.41 | Patlabor221 | well current maxes are 160x200 500k |
| 22:31.43 | fiberchunks | goody, kernel 2.6.0-test is out :) |
| 22:32.02 | Patlabor221 | damn I'm generous on the avatar size |
| 22:32.06 | fiberchunks | .5 meg for an avatar? that's huge? |
| 22:32.07 | Chikorita | lol |
| 22:32.18 | Chikorita | so nice pat iz |
| 22:32.21 | Chikorita | :P |
| 22:32.25 | Patlabor221 | well I got pissed at it one day |
| 22:32.46 | Patlabor221 | so I put in a lot of zeros |
| 22:32.56 | fiberchunks | i guess so :) |
| 22:33.07 | Patlabor221 | not like I'm hurting for space |
| 22:33.33 | fiberchunks | no, I wasn't thinking of that -- but 2 avatars'll be a nice 1M download if someone decides to abuse that |
| 22:33.46 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 22:34.09 | Patlabor221 | but to get that large in that small of a space it would have to be animated all to hell |
| 22:34.24 | Chikorita | brb |
| 22:34.33 | fiberchunks | true |
| 22:34.57 | SGI | sorry hi all......daughter screming |
| 22:35.05 | fiberchunks | lo SGI |
| 22:35.09 | SGI | nws for me |
| 22:35.13 | SGI | news |
| 22:35.13 | fiberchunks | SGI pics are posted of the car |
| 22:35.22 | SGI | aa thank you |
| 22:35.24 | fiberchunks | np |
| 22:35.45 | SGI | im going to post my pics me tooo.......when i have 5secs |
| 22:45.15 | *** join/#bzflag JBDiGriz (~JBDiGriz@adsl-63-204-118-6.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net) |
| 22:53.33 | *** join/#bzflag Noodleman (~tuckerm@216.228.183.148) |
| 22:56.50 | *** part/#bzflag SGI (~SGI@pcp01642968pcs.sothfd01.mi.comcast.net) |
| 23:08.07 | *** join/#bzflag Chikorita (~peacemkkr@205.197.172.222) |
| 23:18.50 | captain_proton | hrm |
| 23:19.05 | captain_proton | i should have checked framerate on pybzflag rendering at 1024x768 anaglyph |
| 23:19.10 | *** join/#bzflag mmu_man (~revol@ALyon-209-1-15-79.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 23:21.21 | Patlabor221 | is it 2? |
| 23:22.31 | captain_proton | 2? |
| 23:22.49 | learnerAtWork | .2? |
| 23:23.14 | captain_proton | yay for working flipz pyramid drawing |
| 23:23.17 | david_v | 2 SPF maybe :) |
| 23:24.22 | fiberchunks | captain_proton> what's your http to decks again? |
| 23:24.31 | captain_proton | http://jupiter.babylonia.flatirons.org/decks |
| 23:24.34 | fiberchunks | thx |
| 23:27.40 | CIA | 03davidtrowbridge * 12pybzflag/BZFlag/UI (AnaglyphView.py): make the eye separation a bit less painful |
| 23:38.48 | Chikorita | ahhhhh |
| 23:38.50 | Chikorita | dang u |
| 23:38.52 | Chikorita | lol |
| 23:39.02 | Chikorita | i werked :P |
| 23:39.04 | Mayhem | Its fun to kick |
| 23:39.08 | Mayhem | but not to be kicked |
| 23:39.23 | Chikorita | k bye all foo time :) |
| 23:39.49 | captain_proton | scanline: so yeah...3d UIs need a lot of research, and who better to do it than us, using the bp equipment? ;-) |
| 23:39.52 | fiberchunks | what time is foo time? |
| 23:40.24 | Mayhem | foo o'clock |
| 23:40.30 | sussudio | fiberchunks: sorry, i seem to have misplaced my AOLtard to english dictionary |
| 23:40.42 | captain_proton | so we discovered that the navigation stuff in the 3d view is niftier than we thought |
| 23:40.49 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-62-11-18-110.dialup.tiscali.it) |
| 23:40.58 | fiberchunks | captain_proton> such as ? |
| 23:41.01 | captain_proton | you can just hold down the right mouse button and use modifiers in between |
| 23:41.16 | fiberchunks | ooo, spiffy, for pan rotate, zoom, etc? |
| 23:41.24 | captain_proton | yeah |
| 23:41.27 | captain_proton | don't have to do them individually |
| 23:41.37 | captain_proton | just one happy navigation interface |
| 23:41.46 | fiberchunks | mmmm, /me waits for download to complete for new snappage retrieval |
| 23:41.50 | captain_proton | can even use wheel while the right button is down =) |
| 23:41.58 | captain_proton | don't need a new snap |
| 23:42.04 | captain_proton | just happens to be a characteristic of how it was written |
| 23:42.18 | fiberchunks | that becomes a feat of dexterity -- yeah, but I want to check out the 'new and improved' anaglyph |
| 23:42.29 | captain_proton | ah |
| 23:44.55 | fiberchunks | dern, I musta threw it all out :\ |
| 23:45.26 | captain_proton | you should get a free pair of anaglyph glasses |
| 23:45.32 | captain_proton | since - its free! |
| 23:46.38 | fiberchunks | much less painful :) |
| 23:46.44 | fiberchunks | where? |
| 23:46.52 | captain_proton | rainbowsymphony.com |
| 23:47.09 | captain_proton | i'm kind of enjoying this when i'm coming at it from the point of view that i don't have any users =) |
| 23:47.26 | captain_proton | because i hate users |
| 23:47.47 | Mayhem | metaphorically, i mean! |
| 23:48.24 | captain_proton | yep |
| 23:48.26 | captain_proton | often they |
| 23:48.28 | captain_proton | 're the same |
| 23:49.06 | Mayhem | yes, but if the users aren't customers, you can ignore them :) |
| 23:50.06 | captain_proton | indeed |
| 23:51.43 | *** part/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-62-11-18-110.dialup.tiscali.it) |
