irclog2html for #bzflag on 20030711

`00:01.04`	`JBDiGriz`	`i'm glad captain_proton, david_v, and i all have different nicks`
`00:01.12`	`captain_proton`	`can't forget MAC too`
`00:01.26`	`JBDiGriz`	`he just wasn't here at the time! :-)`
`00:01.31`	`captain_proton`	`=)`
`00:01.50`	`sussudio`	`how do you fall asleep on just the 'l'?`
`00:01.55`	`captain_proton`	`sussudio: nose`
`00:02.19`	`sussudio`	`l o`
`00:02.23`	`sussudio`	`guess i got a bigger nose then`
`00:02.27`	`*** join/#bzflag Legolas (~Legolas@adsl-68-73-89-127.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net)`
`00:02.31`	`sussudio`	`mine gets the l and o`
`00:02.33`	`*** part/#bzflag Legolas (~Legolas@adsl-68-73-89-127.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net)`
`00:02.34`	`JBDiGriz`	`or a smaller keyboard`
`00:02.42`	`sussudio`	`it's a standard keyboard`
`00:02.52`	`learner`	`hey!.. I'm not gone _yet_!`
`00:02.56`	`learner`	`hehehe`
`00:03.01`	`sussudio`	`got it off an olivetti 486 server`
`00:03.01`	`*** join/#bzflag Merry (~Merry@adsl-68-73-89-127.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net)`
`00:03.04`	`JBDiGriz`	`no such thing as a standard keyboard`
`00:03.05`	`scanline`	`whoa..`
`00:03.05`	`david_v`	`is Chestal somewhere nearby, by any chance?`
`00:03.15`	`captain_proton`	`scanline: ?`
`00:03.23`	`learner`	`my finger rests on the "ell".. :P`
`00:03.26`	`sussudio`	`david_v: is asdf being nasty again?`
`00:03.33`	`david_v`	`where is everybody when you really need them`
`00:03.34`	`scanline`	`1000 shot server, no ricochet, hold down 'enter' near a building and wiggle around a bit`
`00:03.36`	`david_v`	`sussudio: no it's a bugfix`
`00:03.40`	`captain_proton`	`erg!`
`00:03.46`	`*** join/#bzflag HenryRiker (~HenryRike@c-67-163-110-59.client.comcast.net)`
`00:03.50`	`captain_proton`	`where is the hardcoded 'i' to start?`
`00:03.57`	`JBDiGriz`	`and the server crashes in flames`
`00:04.55`	`*** join/#bzflag HenryRiker (~HenryRike@c-67-163-110-59.client.comcast.net)`
`00:05.06`	`*** join/#bzflag calico (calico@bgm-66-67-6-151.stny.rr.com)`
`00:06.53`	`scanline`	`http://navi.picogui.org/images/screenshots/flamethrower.jpeg`
`00:07.11`	`*** join/#bzflag HenryRiker (~HenryRike@c-67-163-110-59.client.comcast.net)`
`00:07.13`	`*** join/#bzflag Henry_Riker (~HenryRike@c-67-163-110-59.client.comcast.net)`
`00:07.16`	`captain_proton`	`hah`
`00:07.31`	`scanline`	`ooh, and that also shows the wonderful team scores I get`
`00:08.33`	`captain_proton`	`those are nice team scores`
`00:08.33`	`sussudio`	`~seen timriker`
`00:08.34`		`timriker <~timr@proxyle02.ext.ti.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #openembedded, 2h 4m 15s ago, saying: 'heh. yes indeed.'.`
`00:08.44`	`sussudio`	`tim is on comcast`
`00:09.11`	`scanline`	`captain_proton: especially green... looks like -17806? really hard to read...`
`00:09.25`	`sussudio`	`hm where'd my i go`
`00:09.30`	`Henry_Riker`	`scanline, server?`
`00:09.35`	`captain_proton`	`hi Henry_Riker`
`00:09.39`	`scanline`	`localhost`
`00:09.44`	`captain_proton`	`erg!`
`00:09.54`	`Henry_Riker`	`scanline, ahh`
`00:09.54`	`captain_proton`	`where does the right click/i to start playing get handled?`
`00:10.10`	`scanline`	`Henry_Riker: it's my pybzflag server.... it doesn't send any MsgTeamUpdates yet, so the client uses uninitialized memory for team scores`
`00:10.24`	`Henry_Riker`	`scanline, ohh. fun, fun`
`00:10.54`	`scanline`	`yep`
`00:11.39`	`captain_proton`	`there are no explicit references to right click :P`
`00:11.54`	`*** part/#bzflag calico (calico@bgm-66-67-6-151.stny.rr.com)`
`00:13.38`	`Merry`	`bye`
`00:13.47`	`*** join/#bzflag TimRiker (~timr@c-67-163-110-59.client.comcast.net)`
`00:14.07`	`captain_proton`	`TimRiker: did you hit a deadline or something? its strange to see you home from work so early :)`
`00:14.14`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ`
`00:14.15`	`TimRiker`	`Henry_Riker: hi henry!`
`00:14.25`	`TimRiker`	`captain_proton: heh. Keri's out tonight. I'm playing with the kids`
`00:15.15`	`Henry_Riker`	`yes dad`
`00:15.23`	`TimRiker`	`good job henry!`
`00:16.14`	`scanline`	`TimRiker: hi henry! you have a cool dad :)`
`00:16.19`	`scanline`	`oops`
`00:16.28`	`scanline`	`s/TimRiker/Henry_Riker/`
`00:16.34`	`TimRiker`	`heh. you know my dad? ;-)`
`00:16.39`	`scanline`	`=)`
`00:18.11`	`david_v`	`sent an e-mail to Chestal with a patch for the league site`
`00:18.38`	`bzdoug`	`uh huh :)`
`00:18.56`	`david_v`	`translate? :)`
`00:18.56`	`bzdoug`	`Henry_Riker: I would hope you knows your dad`
`00:20.06`	`scanline`	`hmmm...`
`00:20.27`	`TimRiker`	`ghosts?`
`00:20.31`	`scanline`	`captain_proton: know anything about an 8-byte header on UDP messageS?`
`00:20.46`	`scanline`	`0000: FEED 0000 0027 021F 0023 7075 0200 0143 .....'...#pu...C`
`00:21.02`	`sussudio`	`FEED M3 53YM0UR`
`00:21.32`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Server now establishes a UDP connection and hex dumps any incoming UDP packets`
`00:22.36`	`captain_proton`	`scanline: are you using ethereal?`
`00:22.53`	`scanline`	`captain_proton: both ethereal and some debugging code I added in python`
`00:22.58`	`captain_proton`	`hmm`
`00:23.00`	`scanline`	`they agree on the packet contents`
`00:23.14`	`captain_proton`	`8 bytes? what message`
`00:23.36`	`scanline`	`that's a playerupdate... you can see the 0x0023 0x7075 beginning the actual message`
`00:24.15`	`scanline`	`that 0000 probably corresponds to a player ID, 0027 might be a redundant length field`
`00:24.35`	`scanline`	`I'm rummaging through bzfs trying to find out for sure though`
`00:24.46`	`captain_proton`	`playerupdate is packed on the client`
`00:25.01`	`scanline`	`well, I was looking for the unpacking code...`
`00:25.08`	`scanline`	`but I guess it might be easier to find on the client side`
`00:26.40`	`Henry_Riker`	`yeah i do do a good job when somebody tells me the letter of it.`
`00:27.06`	`TimRiker`	`Henry_Riker: that's right! nice job.`
`00:28.24`	`scanline`	`captain_proton: PlayerLink::state should always be ServerRelay since it doesn't do multicast, right?`
`00:28.28`	`david_v`	`g'night folks`
`00:28.56`	`captain_proton`	`scanline: -should- be :)`
`00:29.08`	`scanline`	`ah, looks like it... ServerLink::send seems fairly juicy`
`00:29.19`	`scanline`	`and it determines whether to use UDP`
`00:29.49`	`Henry_Riker`	`yeah it is.`
`00:30.11`	`scanline`	`Henry_Riker: wow, you're a BZFlag developer too? :)`
`00:30.18`	`captain_proton`	`hehe`
`00:30.59`	`scanline`	`bingo`
`00:31.00`	`scanline`	`<PROTECTED>`
`00:31.00`	`scanline`	`<PROTECTED>`
`00:31.00`	`scanline`	`<PROTECTED>`
`00:31.00`	`scanline`	`<PROTECTED>`
`00:31.25`	`captain_proton`	`0xfeed...that's useful`
`00:31.48`	`scanline`	`yep.. and the redundant length`
`00:31.55`	`scanline`	`and that lastRectPacketNo always seems to be zero`
`00:31.59`	`scanline`	`er, recv`
`00:32.02`	`Henry_Riker`	`i am 4`
`00:32.09`	`captain_proton`	`so we've got 8 bytes of overhead on every player update...`
`00:32.28`	`captain_proton`	`what a clever protocol`
`00:32.40`	`scanline`	`not just regular overhead, obscure undocumented overhead!`
`00:32.48`	`captain_proton`	`the best kind`
`00:33.04`	`scanline`	`any reason not to ditch it?`
`00:33.11`	`captain_proton`	`i can't see any`
`00:33.15`	`captain_proton`	`so far as it works`
`00:33.20`	`scanline`	`okeydokey`
`00:33.31`	`captain_proton`	`could be one of those unconnected "do not press this button" things`
`00:33.40`	`scanline`	`hehe... we'll see`
`00:35.07`	`TimRiker`	`feel free to hack up the udp protocol.`
`00:35.24`	`scanline`	`is this PacketQueue thing important?`
`00:35.35`	`captain_proton`	`TimRiker: do you have any clue where the "click right mouse to start" is handled?`
`00:35.36`	`Henry_Riker`	`yhh,`
`00:35.40`	`scanline`	`:)`
`00:35.47`	`TimRiker`	`It would be nice to have a date or packet sequence etc.`
`00:36.09`	`TimRiker`	`captain_proton: not off the top of my head. trey the doxygen text? ;-)`
`00:36.27`	`TimRiker`	`http://bzflag.org/doyxgen/`
`00:36.43`	`captain_proton`	`heh`
`00:36.59`	`scanline`	`would anything actually use a sequence number for packets sent over UDP?`
`00:37.08`	`TimRiker`	`s/trey/try/`
`00:37.19`	`captain_proton`	`-someone- found it, because they added 'i' for the mouse-button-challenged folks`
`00:37.31`	`captain_proton`	`TimRiker: ooh, thats a good lookin' web page`
`00:37.36`	`captain_proton`	`The requested URL /doyxgen/ was not found on this server.`
`00:37.52`	`TimRiker`	`er http://bzflag.org/doxygen/`
`00:39.38`	`captain_proton`	`is that doxygen tree cronned?`
`00:39.55`	`captain_proton`	`hmm, webserver is being quite speedy`
`00:39.55`	`scanline`	`oh, hm....`
`00:40.19`	`scanline`	`captain_proton: the length and sequence number are for putting multiple messages in one UDP packet`
`00:40.23`	`TimRiker`	`looks like sf went bye bye`
`00:40.59`	`captain_proton`	`but we don't actually combine messages like that, do we?`
`00:41.09`	`captain_proton`	`sigh`
`00:41.19`	`scanline`	`doesn't appear that we do, but the code's there`
`00:41.52`	`captain_proton`	`amazing`
`00:42.55`	`scanline`	`I don't really see how it would be useful to put multiple messages in a UDP packet`
`00:42.57`	`TimRiker`	`I moved the doxygen down from html/ . looks like sf is back now.`
`00:43.06`	`scanline`	`this looks to just be duplicating the overhead UDP already gives us`
`00:43.22`	`captain_proton`	`well - it -would- be useful if done right`
`00:43.28`	`captain_proton`	`but that is not the way to do it`
`00:43.40`	`TimRiker`	`scanline: if the server is sending out traffic from 10 players to one player it would be nice to combine packets on the server.`
`00:44.10`	`TimRiker`	`server should wait for milliseconds, then flush. but we should have a datestamp of some kind first.`
`00:44.29`	`TimRiker`	`that way the clients can backdate the packet and re-deadreacon from there.`
`00:45.03`	`TimRiker`	`the overhead should probably get removed in cvs till we have a complete solution.`
`00:45.14`	`scanline`	`how about then we ditch the UDP header completely, allow multiple messages per UDP packet, and add time stamps directly to messages where it would be useful, like playerupdate and shotbegin?`
`00:45.27`	`scanline`	`or that...`
`00:45.39`	`captain_proton`	`scanline: thats a good topic for sat...`
`00:46.00`	`scanline`	`ok.. I'll remove the overhead anyway, since it seems like it will be the first step either way`
`00:46.10`	`scanline`	`I like the idea of keeping the UDP and TCP message formats exactly the same`
`00:46.58`	`TimRiker`	`scanline: sounds good to me.`
`00:47.19`	`TimRiker`	`though if we add to playerupdate (the most common) we could probably add them everywhere.`
`00:47.34`	`scanline`	`could make it part of the message header`
`00:47.42`	`scanline`	`(length, type, timestamp)`
`00:47.59`	`scanline`	`another thought I had about the protocol is adding sizes to the world blocks`
`00:48.04`	`TimRiker`	`keep a microsecond timer on the server and date everything. sync on the client as best we can.`
`00:48.11`	`scanline`	`as it is, there's a size on the header, but that's nearly useless since all the other blocks have no size`
`00:48.21`	`*** join/#bzflag JBDiGriz (~JBDiGriz@adsl-63-204-118-6.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net)`
`00:48.22`	`TimRiker`	`keep it`
`00:48.36`	`scanline`	`keep what?`
`00:48.37`	`TimRiker`	`lets clients/server ignore packets they don't understand.`
`00:48.41`	`TimRiker`	`the length.`
`00:48.50`	`scanline`	`oh. I wasn't talking about removing the length`
`00:48.56`	`scanline`	`I was suggesting adding lengths for all the blocks`
`00:49.24`	`TimRiker`	`in the world? yes. that would be a Good Thing`
`00:49.33`	`scanline`	`as it is, the client could ignore fields in the header it doesn't understand, but if any of the blocks have changed size it would get confused`
`00:49.45`	`TimRiker`	`back later...`
`00:49.51`	`scanline`	`bye`
`00:51.09`	`captain_proton`	`hrm`
`00:51.21`	`captain_proton`	`why is the playerupdate header 4 bytes instead of 2?`
`00:51.33`	`scanline`	`hm?`
`00:51.54`	`captain_proton`	`'0023 7075'`
`00:52.02`	`captain_proton`	`whats the 0023? (doc says 002a)`
`00:52.07`	`scanline`	`that's the length`
`00:52.13`	`scanline`	`the doc needs updating`
`00:52.13`	`captain_proton`	`ah, right`
`00:52.37`	`*** join/#bzflag SGI (~sgi-tank@pcp01642968pcs.sothfd01.mi.comcast.net)`
`00:52.41`	`SGI`	`hi`
`00:53.46`	`scanline`	`I'm just going to nuke this whole PacketQueue mess... if/when we add the capability to combine messages in UDP packets, we should find a cleaner way anyway, like maybe using the STL a bit`
`00:53.56`	`captain_proton`	`indeed`
`00:54.01`	`captain_proton`	`or...enet`
`00:54.16`	`scanline`	`enet?`
`00:54.29`	`SGI`	`enet??`
`00:54.34`	`captain_proton`	`one of the possibilities we're looking at`
`00:54.37`	`captain_proton`	`enet.cubik.org`
`00:54.42`	`captain_proton`	`(don't worry, its got python bindings)`
`00:54.48`	`scanline`	`=)`
`00:54.49`	`captain_proton`	`eek!`
`00:55.20`	`scanline`	`cute`
`01:00.15`	`captain_proton`	`hmm`
`01:00.26`	`captain_proton`	`this trackd api looks like it may be possible to get orientation information`
`01:00.29`	`captain_proton`	`rather than strict position`
`01:01.34`	`captain_proton`	`in any case`
`01:01.41`	`captain_proton`	`its a really simple library`
`01:03.29`	`captain_proton`	`ooh`
`01:03.31`	`captain_proton`	`'press %s to start'`
`01:03.46`	`bzdoug`	`lol`
`01:07.48`	`scanline`	`wow, this is amazing`
`01:07.54`	`captain_proton`	`hm?`
`01:07.57`	`scanline`	`bzfs.cxx has almost an exact copy of the code I just ripped out of the client`
`01:09.11`	`captain_proton`	`yay for cruft`
`01:09.15`	`scanline`	`hmm`
`01:09.16`	`scanline`	`<PROTECTED>`
`01:09.25`	`scanline`	`they even acknowledge in the code that the queue is useless`
`01:10.08`	`sussudio`	`the same 'they' that killed kenny?`
`01:10.14`	`captain_proton`	`bah, i'm an idiot`
`01:10.36`	`captain_proton`	`take a look at the cmdIdentify function i implemented`
`01:13.33`	`scanline`	`but but but.. it's in playing.cxx!`
`01:14.06`	`scanline`	`hehehe...`
`01:14.08`	`scanline`	`<PROTECTED>`
`01:14.08`	`scanline`	`<PROTECTED>`
`01:14.32`	`scanline`	`nice identify command`
`01:14.55`	`captain_proton`	`uhhuh`
`01:16.04`	`scanline`	`hmm`
`01:16.13`	`scanline`	`this is checking for ECONNRESET and EPIPE errors on a UDP socket?`
`01:16.20`	`captain_proton`	`hehehe`
`01:19.04`	`captain_proton`	`hrm`
`01:19.11`	`captain_proton`	`this will mess things up :P`
`01:20.45`	`captain_proton`	`ooh i know`
`01:20.50`	`captain_proton`	`i'll bind the key -release-`
`01:22.03`	`captain_proton`	`no packets for you!`
`01:22.11`	`scanline`	`oh no!`
`01:25.03`	`scanline`	`ooh... and MsgUDPLinkEstablished takes a completely useless parameter that gets sent as 1234 by the client and ignored by the server`
`01:25.33`	`captain_proton`	`yay!`
`01:25.56`	`captain_proton`	`and scanline finds out how super-efficient the bzflag protocol really is`
`01:26.08`	`scanline`	`yyep`
`01:30.17`	`*** join/#bzflag SGI (~sgi-tank@pcp01642968pcs.sothfd01.mi.comcast.net)`
`01:32.25`	`scanline`	`ok, well nothing explodes when I run an updated server and client`
`01:32.38`	`scanline`	`not much I can do to test it without getting it out there on a public server though`
`01:32.42`	`sussudio`	`it is now time for the penguin on your television to explode.`
`01:33.15`	`CIA`	`03davidtrowbridge * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (3 files):`
`01:33.15`	`CIA`	`ONE POINT TWENTY ONE JIGGAWATTS!`
`01:33.16`	`CIA`	`err...right. got rid of the rest of all the old keybinding stuff, except for the menus`
`01:33.21`	`scanline`	`hehe`
`01:33.28`	`captain_proton`	`PULL!`
`01:35.01`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12bzflag/src (3 files in 2 dirs):`
`01:35.01`	`CIA`	`Remove huge amounts of UDP-related protocol cruft. Mostly this gets rid`
`01:35.02`	`CIA`	`of a message queue that wasn't really being used, but it also removes an`
`01:35.02`	`CIA`	`unnecessary 8-byte header on UDP messages and an unused 2-byte parameter`
`01:35.03`	`CIA`	`for MsgUDPLinkEstablished.`
`01:36.22`	`scanline`	`where was learner's server log?`
`01:36.57`	`captain_proton`	`brlcad.org/server.log, iirc`
`01:37.04`	`scanline`	`pff... I just got the client to segfault`
`01:38.37`	`scanline`	`ah...`
`01:38.56`	`scanline`	`so I assume the server hasn't updated yet.. looks like an old server will make a new client segfault :)`
`01:39.39`	`scanline`	`hehe, yep...`
`01:39.42`	`scanline`	`"Reject UPacket because invalid header 0023"`
`01:39.47`	`scanline`	`the server is still looking for 0xFEED`
`01:41.53`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (ServerLink.cxx): Store length of incoming UDP packets correctly`
`01:43.56`	`scanline`	`ok. anyone want to update their client and try connecting to brlcad.org?`
`01:44.49`	`captain_proton`	`if i can get sf to behave`
`01:45.32`	`scanline`	`if this works I still need to fix it so that the server can't crash the client by sending a really big packet...`
`01:45.45`	`captain_proton`	ServerLink.cxx:339: `sub_length' undeclared (first use this function)
`01:45.45`	`captain_proton`	`ServerLink.cxx:339: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once for each`
`01:45.59`	`scanline`	`ah, whoops`
`01:46.43`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (ServerLink.cxx): Fix ze debuggative doodad`
`01:46.46`	`captain_proton`	`UDEBUG?`
`01:47.02`	`scanline`	`I didn't put the UDEBUG there, but I did forget to update it`
`01:47.10`	`captain_proton`	`ah`
`01:48.13`	`scanline`	`ooh, I never noticed that`
`01:48.26`	`scanline`	`you can see a flag in your shadow`
`01:50.30`	`captain_proton`	`heh`
`01:52.07`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12bzflag/ (ChangeLog): The UDP change should probably appear on the changelog`
`01:53.05`	`captain_proton`	`ooh`
`01:53.11`	`captain_proton`	`dashboard is starting to look really neat`
`01:53.18`	`captain_proton`	`xchat backend =)`
`01:54.27`	`captain_proton`	`http://www.nat.org/dashboard/textchain.png`
`01:55.30`	`scanline`	`cute`
`01:56.12`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (ServerLink.cxx): If we receive a packet bigger than MaxPacketLen, don't try to copy the whole thing into the packet buffer`
`01:57.06`	`scanline`	`oh hm...`
`01:57.11`	`scanline`	`does MaxPacketLen include the header?`
`01:58.47`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (ServerLink.cxx): No icky hardcoded buffer sizes when we have this nice MaxPacketLen constant`
`02:01.03`	`*** join/#bzflag accurate (accurate@adsl-65-65-224-214.dsl.spfdmo.swbell.net)`
`02:05.27`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag/Protocol (ToServer.py): Update to reflect the newly decruftified status of MsgUDPLinkEstablished`
`02:13.03`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12bzflag/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Give Team a constructor so our team scores aren't uninitialized if we don't get any MsgTeamUpdates`
`02:19.08`	`*** join/#bzflag doughecka (~Joe@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net)`
`02:27.44`	`scanline`	`captain_proton: hmm.. MsgAccept is supposed to only be for responses to MsgEnter, but the server is also sending it in response to MsgNetworkRelay`
`02:31.16`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag (3 files in 2 dirs): Fix onEnterGame() to trigger only after the MsgAddPlayer for ourselves`
`02:32.18`	`*** join/#bzflag MrApathyCream (dbrosius@balt-209-163-100-121.qis-dynamic-dialup.coretel.net)`
`02:47.20`	`*** join/#bzflag Legolas (~Legolas@adsl-68-73-89-127.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net)`
`02:48.35`	`*** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~jeffm@adsl-67-115-246-25.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net)`
`02:48.36`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ`
`02:48.53`	`MrApathyCream`	`ola jeffo`
`02:49.32`	`Patlabor221`	`sup`
`02:50.42`	`CIA`	`03dbrosius * 12bzflag/src/bzfs (bzfs.cxx): Nasty global init ordering problem was occuring between CmdLineOptions and Flags, causing flagMap to be empty when processing cmd line. This caused all flag carry limits to be zero, which meant you dropped the flag as soon as you shot. Made clOptions not a global anymore to fix`
`02:52.57`	`*** join/#bzflag Legolas (~Legolas@adsl-68-73-89-127.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net)`
`02:53.37`	`*** join/#bzflag Chikorita (Chikorita@ACCAD2B8.ipt.aol.com)`
`02:53.50`	`Chikorita`	`hi all :)`
`02:53.56`	`MrApathyCream`	`howdy`
`02:53.58`	`scanline`	`hi`
`02:53.58`	`CIA`	`03dbrosius * 12bzflag/ (BUGS): fixem bugs`
`02:54.14`	`MrApathyCream`	`scanline: you are farkin insane`
`02:54.18`	`MrApathyCream`	`nice udp cleanup`
`02:54.21`	`scanline`	`:)`
`02:54.24`	`Chikorita`	`no catch mee`
`02:54.25`	`Chikorita`	`:(`
`02:54.27`	`Patlabor221`	`arn't we all?`
`02:54.32`	`Chikorita`	`imma free-range chikorita`
`02:54.48`	`Chikorita`	`;)`
`02:54.49`	`MrApathyCream`	`e:\bz\bz_cvs\bzflag\src\bzfs\bzfs.cxx(1188) : warning C4700: local variable 'lseqno' used without having been initialized`
`02:54.49`	`MrApathyCream`	`e:\bz\bz_cvs\bzflag\src\bzfs\bzfs.cxx(1188) : warning C4700: local variable 'len' used without having been initialized`
`02:54.51`	`Chikorita`	`lol`
`02:55.21`	`scanline`	`MrApathyCream: hm? lseqno at least shouldn't even exist any more...`
`02:55.49`	`MrApathyCream`	`in DEBUG4 code`
`02:56.12`	`scanline`	`ah`
`02:56.15`	`scanline`	`yeah, found it`
`02:56.23`	`MrApathyCream`	`bbiab`
`02:57.46`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12bzflag/src/bzfs (bzfs.cxx): Nuke some debuggative cruft`
`02:57.59`	`Chikorita`	`i wish dey would put real lemons in lemon coke ...`
`02:58.07`	`scanline`	`lemon coke?`
`02:58.08`	`*** join/#bzflag SGI (~sgi-tank@pcp01642968pcs.sothfd01.mi.comcast.net)`
`02:58.14`	`Chikorita`	`mmhmm`
`02:58.16`	`SGI`	`hi legolas`
`02:58.22`	`Patlabor221`	`what the frell is that?`
`02:58.23`	`SGI`	`hi all`
`02:58.25`	`scanline`	`never heard of it, but it sounds good`
`02:58.38`	`Chikorita`	`itz coca-cola , buh wif lemon flava`
`02:58.49`	`Chikorita`	`u neva heard of lemon coke??`
`02:58.55`	`scanline`	`noop`
`02:58.56`	`Patlabor221`	`well they have pepsi twist`
`02:58.58`	`Chikorita`	`itz ok`
`02:58.59`	`SGI`	`bleach`
`02:59.02`	`Patlabor221`	`didn't know they ad a coke version`
`02:59.15`	`Chikorita`	`lemon coke came first , pepsi copied offa coca cola`
`02:59.15`	`sussudio`	`scanline: if you were wondering, no, you can't input whatever Chikorita says through babelfish...`
`02:59.16`	`SGI`	`blaaaaaaaa`
`02:59.50`	`Chikorita`	`o hi sussidio..`
`02:59.55`	`Chikorita`	`didnt c u`
`03:00.10`	`Chikorita`	`heehe`
`03:01.06`	`Chikorita`	`u kno wut da bestest drink iz?`
`03:01.12`	`scanline`	`root beer`
`03:01.13`	`Chikorita`	`diet vannila coke`
`03:01.19`	`sussudio`	`http://bbspot.com/News/2003/02/grammer.html`
`03:01.24`	`Chikorita`	`root beer iz good too`
`03:01.30`	`SGI`	`can you see my post`
`03:01.30`	`Chikorita`	`buh mug iz too sweet`
`03:01.31`	`Patlabor221`	`thomas kemper black cherry soda`
`03:01.34`	`Patlabor221`	`with vodka`
`03:01.48`	`Chikorita`	`birch beer iz betta`
`03:01.52`	`Chikorita`	`yum!`
`03:01.54`	`Chikorita`	`heehe`
`03:01.57`	`captain_proton`	`diet?`
`03:02.05`	`Chikorita`	`uh huh`
`03:02.05`	`SGI`	`wow`
`03:02.15`	`SGI`	`you drink good stuff`
`03:02.31`	`Chikorita`	`sugar iz bad for mee toof`
`03:02.37`	`Chikorita`	`an umm , diabetes`
`03:02.41`	`captain_proton`	`ever tried drinking water? :)`
`03:02.46`	`Chikorita`	`wata`
`03:02.50`	`*** part/#bzflag SGI (~sgi-tank@pcp01642968pcs.sothfd01.mi.comcast.net)`
`03:03.07`	`Chikorita`	`aquafina`
`03:03.25`	`Patlabor221`	`maybe that's why she talks that way.`
`03:03.34`	`Chikorita`	`wut way`
`03:03.37`	`Chikorita`	`>:\`
`03:03.43`	`captain_proton`	`its the most common substance on earth, there's no reason to spend $30/gallon for it`
`03:03.44`	`Patlabor221`	`:P`
`03:03.48`	`sussudio`	`Patlabor221: that and crack cocaine`
`03:04.04`	`Chikorita`	`i agree capnt proton`
`03:04.27`	`Chikorita`	`i like clean wata tho , an not tap wata`
`03:04.28`	`captain_proton`	`you see, the trick is to live somewhere that the tap water isn't sludge`
`03:04.34`	`Chikorita`	`ya`
`03:04.42`	`sussudio`	`europe?`
`03:04.51`	`Chikorita`	`or u could buy a filter`
`03:05.03`	`captain_proton`	`sussudio: mountains`
`03:05.13`	`Chikorita`	`i have a filter thingie connected 2 mah faucet :)`
`03:05.20`	`Chikorita`	`it great`
`03:05.23`	`TimRiker`	`global inits are a Bad Thing. One should new the other or something.`
`03:05.30`	`Chikorita`	`big difference in taste`
`03:05.35`	`TimRiker`	`or main should new them both.`
`03:05.50`	`Chikorita`	`tim?`
`03:06.14`	`TimRiker`	`yeah?`
`03:06.18`	`Chikorita`	`thnx for helpin make BZ :) :) :)`
`03:06.28`	`TimRiker`	`yer welcome`
`03:06.30`	`Chikorita`	`dats mah fav game`
`03:06.34`	`Chikorita`	`heehe`
`03:06.53`	`CIA`	`03davidtrowbridge * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (bzflag.cxx): init radar to medium range`
`03:07.15`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Fix broken onMsgAddPlayer hander`
`03:09.14`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag/Client (Stateful.py): Ignore updates for players we haven't added yet`
`03:09.21`	`captain_proton`	`hrm`
`03:09.34`	`captain_proton`	`raise your hand if you think menus.cxx needs to be split up into a bunch of little files`
`03:10.15`	`sussudio`	`captain_proton: playing.cxx is bigger`
`03:10.22`	`captain_proton`	`raise your hand if you think scanline needs to rewrite all the UI code to use picogui instead`
`03:10.30`	`scanline`	`yeep`
`03:10.48`	`Chikorita`	`who wants to c mah pic?`
`03:10.58`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag/Client (Base.py): Add a handler for MsgNetworkRelay`
`03:11.00`	`captain_proton`	`>:)`
`03:11.21`	`Chikorita`	`:)-\|--<`
`03:11.23`	`scanline`	`s/C877/F877/`
`03:11.24`	`Chikorita`	`dats mee`
`03:11.25`	`Chikorita`	`heehe`
`03:11.32`	`scanline`	`:)-/--<`
`03:11.34`	`scanline`	`:)-\--<`
`03:11.35`	`scanline`	`:)-/--<`
`03:11.42`	`Chikorita`	`lol u doin da wave?`
`03:11.52`	`Chikorita`	`woOt`
`03:11.52`	`scanline`	`either that or it's a DOS progress indicator`
`03:11.59`	`Chikorita`	`lol`
`03:12.06`	`Chikorita`	`scanline funny`
`03:12.10`	`scanline`	`oh no!`
`03:12.15`	`sussudio`	`they go like / - + \ *`
`03:12.21`	`scanline`	`sussudio: that's the boring ones`
`03:12.36`	`captain_proton`	`scanline: you can start with the font engine`
`03:12.36`	`scanline`	`and it's / - \ \| / - \ \|`
`03:12.52`	`sussudio`	`mine had a * in it and maybe a o and a O`
`03:12.59`	`Chikorita`	`=^-^=`
`03:13.02`	`Chikorita`	`kitty`
`03:13.09`	`Chikorita`	`i can make a bunny rabbit too`
`03:13.18`	`scanline`	`captain_proton: hmm... I think MrApathyCream would enjoy that`
`03:13.19`	`sussudio`	`looks more like roadkill kitty`
`03:14.14`	`scanline`	`argh.. this shouldn't work`
`03:14.29`	`Chikorita`	`ok i play sum BZ b4 bedtime..`
`03:14.31`	`Chikorita`	`nite all`
`03:14.36`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag/Client (Base.py): typo`
`03:14.38`	`Chikorita`	`cept u sussudio`
`03:14.38`	`scanline`	`my observer works.. but it shouldn't since I should be getting updates over UDP and I'm not handling them yet`
`03:14.42`	`Chikorita`	`go get bent`
`03:14.43`	`Chikorita`	`LoL`
`03:14.59`	`captain_proton`	`scanline: are you sending a udp link request?`
`03:15.03`	`scanline`	`oh yeah`
`03:15.05`	`scanline`	`definitely`
`03:15.12`	`scanline`	`getting the response, then sending the established`
`03:15.16`	`captain_proton`	`hrm`
`03:15.22`	`captain_proton`	`sending one udp packet?`
`03:15.28`	`scanline`	`hmm.. nope`
`03:15.37`	`captain_proton`	`it doesn't actually use udp until it gets at least one packet`
`03:15.42`	`scanline`	`ah`
`03:15.43`	`captain_proton`	`to account for NAT-type port fuzzing`
`03:15.52`	`scanline`	`makes sense.. I was wondering how it handled that`
`03:16.13`	`sussudio`	`scanline: see what AOL does to your brain?`
`03:16.32`	`captain_proton`	`i'd like to actually add some udp messages to the udp handshaking`
`03:16.47`	`captain_proton`	`to make it less buggy when two people are behind the same nat and connect about the same time`
`03:18.52`	`scanline`	`ooh, bzflag sunset`
`03:19.04`	`captain_proton`	`anybody have any ideas re: keybinding menu?`
`03:19.53`	`scanline`	`captain_proton: oh.. about the NAT bugginess... how about making the starting UDP port number slightly random?`
`03:20.12`	`captain_proton`	`wouldn't help`
`03:20.28`	`captain_proton`	`nat always fuzzes the incoming port number`
`03:20.46`	`scanline`	`ah`
`03:22.07`	`scanline`	`should I be able to send any UDP message to start up the connection?`
`03:22.18`	`captain_proton`	`shoule`
`03:22.20`	`captain_proton`	`should*`
`03:22.25`	`scanline`	`<PROTECTED>`
`03:22.27`	`scanline`	`:)`
`03:22.30`	`scanline`	`doesn't seem to work`
`03:22.35`	`captain_proton`	`its been a while since i've looked at that`
`03:22.45`	`captain_proton`	`try a pu :)`
`03:22.57`	`scanline`	`but but.. before MsgAlive?`
`03:23.01`	`captain_proton`	`eek, no`
`03:23.11`	`scanline`	`remember this has to work for observers too`
`03:23.27`	`captain_proton`	`you could rework the udp handshake ;)`
`03:23.32`	`scanline`	`might come to that`
`03:24.53`	`*** join/#bzflag MrApathyCream (dbrosius@balt-209-163-100-121.qis-dynamic-dialup.coretel.net)`
`03:25.19`	`scanline`	`hmm.. don't see my packet being sent`
`03:26.15`	`*** join/#bzflag MrAC (dbrosius@balt-209-163-100-187.qis-dynamic-dialup.coretel.net)`
`03:26.22`	`scanline`	`client.onConnectUDP.trace(lambda: "UDP link established, local port %s" % client.udp.port)`
`03:27.01`	`captain_proton`	`you sick bastage :)`
`03:27.10`	`captain_proton`	`btw, there's a good article on the new itertools stuff in 2.3`
`03:27.22`	`scanline`	`oh.. I heard a little about that, sounded really cool`
`03:27.31`	`captain_proton`	`http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-cpyiter.html?ca=dgr-lnxw07Itertools`
`03:27.33`	`scanline`	`I plan on abusing iterators for all the scene graph stuff in this :)`
`03:28.03`	`captain_proton`	`>:)`
`03:28.37`	`captain_proton`	`its a really neat idea in terms of memory requirements`
`03:30.26`	`scanline`	`neat article`
`03:31.44`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Much better way to create the iterator for SceneList. Thanks davidtrowbridge!`
`03:31.55`	`captain_proton`	`hehehe`
`03:32.00`	`scanline`	`oop.. looks like I forgot to commit my UDP stuff`
`03:32.07`	`scanline`	`that should have only been one file`
`03:34.52`	`captain_proton`	`heh, you were defining your own iterator class?`
`03:34.59`	`scanline`	`yes`
`03:35.38`	`scanline`	`lists don't have an __iter__ method, and I didn't see an easy way to make an iterator out of a sequence`
`03:36.11`	`captain_proton`	`makes sense, i guess`
`03:37.57`	`captain_proton`	`whoa`
`03:38.04`	`captain_proton`	`this 'charming python' series has a lot of articles`
`03:38.44`	`scanline`	`ooh`
`03:40.08`	`*** join/#bzflag Michaelh (Mouse@172-155.dynamic.visi.com)`
`03:40.28`	`Michaelh`	`latest cvs version is completely locking up my computer -- total reboot required......`
`03:40.36`	`Michaelh`	`on exit ...`
`03:41.04`	`sussudio`	`it's a feature`
`03:41.28`	`Michaelh`	`so it's to prevent memory leakage over long periods of time huh?`
`03:41.30`	`Michaelh`	`:)`
`03:41.34`	`sussudio`	`yes.`
`03:41.41`	`scanline`	`under windows I assume?`
`03:41.45`	`Michaelh`	`yeppers`
`03:41.47`	`Michaelh`	`you too?`
`03:41.56`	`sussudio`	`must be win98 then`
`03:41.57`	`scanline`	`no`
`03:42.02`	`sussudio`	`95?`
`03:42.05`	`scanline`	`<PROTECTED>`
`03:42.06`	`Michaelh`	`98`
`03:42.17`	`sussudio`	`98 is teh sux`
`03:42.25`	`Michaelh`	`hey.. it runs well enough`
`03:42.34`	`Patlabor221`	`no, it dosn't`
`03:42.34`	`sussudio`	`under 2000 i just get an error box.`
`03:42.40`	`Michaelh`	`must be that bzdb thing dumping stuff at the end.........`
`03:42.49`	`Michaelh`	`or whatever is dumping at the end`
`03:42.55`	`Patlabor221`	`so debug it`
`03:42.58`	`Patlabor221`	`see where it pukes`
`03:42.59`	`Michaelh`	`good idea`
`03:43.11`	`Michaelh`	`Never seen something just completely freeze the computer like that :)`
`03:43.20`	`sussudio`	`Patlabor221: i did that actually and is started up msvc, kinda surprised me.`
`03:43.21`	`Patlabor221`	`you been hangin round the text heads too much`
`03:43.38`	`Patlabor221`	`well what did you expect that's what it's suposed to do.`
`03:43.40`	`MrAC`	`fonts wooowooo`
`03:43.45`	`sussudio`	`shrug`
`03:43.49`	`Patlabor221`	`or run FROM the debuger ( what a conecept)`
`03:43.54`	`sussudio`	`i didnt have msvc installed before.`
`03:43.56`	`Michaelh`	`<PROTECTED>`
`03:44.51`	`Michaelh`	`i had it compiled under debug mode before but then it never crashed`
`03:45.06`	`Patlabor221`	`then somethings not being initalised`
`03:45.18`	`Patlabor221`	`debuger inits mem to not garbage`
`03:45.33`	`Michaelh`	`I think think this crashing is newer though`
`03:45.44`	`Patlabor221`	`then you get to debugin`
`03:45.49`	`Patlabor221`	`you have the power :)`
`03:45.55`	`Michaelh`	`alrightttttttyyyyyy then`
`03:46.14`	`Patlabor221`	`or you could pull a cap and put in 1.3 million printfs`
`03:46.14`	`captain_proton`	`Patlabor221: ooh, it inits memory? that makes things really easy to debug :P`
`03:46.36`	`Michaelh`	`printf is cool...`
`03:46.47`	`Patlabor221`	`so is a breakpoint`
`03:46.52`	`scanline`	`you windows folks just haven't seen the power of valgrind`
`03:47.10`	`Patlabor221`	`you mean numega dev tools?`
`03:47.26`	`captain_proton`	`MrApathyCream: i don't suppose you have any ideas about how to hook up the keybinding menu?`
`03:47.35`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag (2 files in 2 dirs): Start finding an available port at 17200, not 1`
`03:48.11`	`Patlabor221`	`cap, and you can debug in release mode too if you want, default debug config inits mem, you can change it how ever you want.`
`03:49.56`	`MrApathyCream`	`captain_proton: no`
`03:51.42`	`CIA`	`03davidtrowbridge * 12bzflag/src/mediafile (PNGImageFile.cxx): delete [] what was new[]ed`
`03:52.11`	`Michaelh`	`doh`
`03:52.31`	`Michaelh`	`hey could that cause a crash?`
`03:52.38`	`captain_proton`	`nope`
`03:52.41`	`captain_proton`	`that would just leak memory`
`03:53.28`	`scanline`	`speaking of delete[]...`
`03:53.50`	`scanline`	`while I was valgrinding bzflag earlier to find the world loading problem, it found some mismatched malloc/free/new/delete stuff`
`03:54.02`	`scanline`	`I should look into that laterish, but thought I should let someone know if I forget`
`03:54.02`	`captain_proton`	`thats probably what i just fixed`
`03:54.07`	`scanline`	`oh`
`03:54.33`	`captain_proton`	`unless MrApathyCream screwed up more code ;)`
`03:54.46`	`Michaelh`	`valgrind?`
`03:55.11`	`Patlabor221`	`it's a cool tool that looks for mem leaks, uninited vars, and alot more`
`03:55.47`	`scanline`	`yep. it actually runs your code inside an x86 emulator, with lots of instrumentation in there to see what you're doing with memory`
`03:55.55`	`scanline`	`there's even a mode that profiles your program's cache usage`
`03:55.58`	`Patlabor221`	`Numega dev partner does a lot of similar things`
`03:56.05`	`MrApathyCream`	`yup`
`03:56.08`	`MrApathyCream`	`sw33t`
`03:56.26`	`captain_proton`	`they really need to get around to implementing that one opcode in nvidia's libgl`
`03:56.30`	`Patlabor221`	`Michaelh when do you lock? on run or on coonect?`
`03:56.38`	`scanline`	`Patlabor221: I've heard from different people that valgrind is and isn't better... and not having the money or OS to run numega I'll have to take your word for it :)`
`03:56.47`	`scanline`	`captain_proton: you know how to work around that right?`
`03:56.54`	`captain_proton`	`scanline: of course`
`03:56.59`	`Patlabor221`	`from what I see they are designed to do the same basic thing`
`03:57.04`	`captain_proton`	`its just a shame, since it makes it even more slower`
`03:57.09`	`scanline`	`yep`
`03:57.23`	`Patlabor221`	`it's probably just personal pref, tho numega comes with trutime, a nice performance tool`
`03:57.54`	`MrApathyCream`	`hmm F12 is handle at WinDisplay::getEvent?`
`04:00.02`	`scanline`	`ahhhh`
`04:00.13`	`scanline`	`it wasn't actually sending the packet, because my socket code waits until select() says it's ok to send`
`04:00.16`	`scanline`	`but that doesn't happen for UDP`
`04:01.08`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag (2 files in 2 dirs): Instead of just queueing new data in write(), go ahead and see if we can send it. If not, it will stay in the queue until we get poked by the main loop.`
`04:01.31`	`Patlabor221`	`well dosn't crash for me`
`04:01.48`	`Patlabor221`	`perhaps it crashes for Michaelh a lot cus he is a LAGGY BITCH :)`
`04:02.02`	`scanline`	`hmph.. still getting player updates over TCP`
`04:02.11`	`scanline`	`geez, I might actually have to read the code now`
`04:02.43`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag/Client (Base.py): Remove debuggative code`
`04:04.03`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag (Network.py): A little further explanation for the code in Socket.write()`
`04:04.34`	`Michaelh`	`that's kind of cool`
`04:04.53`	`MrApathyCream`	`crash on quit for me NTDLL 77f75a58`
`04:05.00`	`MrApathyCream`	`and no i don't have that much memory`
`04:05.28`	`MrApathyCream`	`weird, i was seing players as red when not rabbits`
`04:06.13`	`MrApathyCream`	`hmm, but its a recoverable error, so i guess it was just the debugger being overly sensitive`
`04:06.37`	`Michaelh`	`debug mode --> no crashing`
`04:06.46`	`MrApathyCream`	`ah`
`04:06.51`	`Michaelh`	`how do I get it to not -- init memory?`
`04:07.04`	`scanline`	`ibot?`
`04:07.11`	`Michaelh`	`debug in release mode?`
`04:07.17`	`MrApathyCream`	`project settings`
`04:07.19`	`Michaelh`	`can I do break points etc?`
`04:07.22`	`scanline`	`TimRiker: does ibot have some super secret debug mode that Michaelh just stumbled upon? :)`
`04:07.42`	`scanline`	`debug mode --> no crashing`
`04:07.49`	`scanline`	`hmm`
`04:07.53`	`MrApathyCream`	`yes`
`04:08.03`	`MrApathyCream`	`depending on what you set in release mode under c++ tab`
`04:08.17`	`captain_proton`	`scanline: it was probably a really lagged bz query`
`04:08.25`	`scanline`	`oh`
`04:09.08`	`Michaelh`	`soooo what would I change to stop it from initing memory? or can I do such a thing`
`04:09.24`	`MrApathyCream`	`stop the debugger from initing memory?`
`04:09.31`	`MrApathyCream`	`the debugger inits to bad memory`
`04:09.39`	`MrApathyCream`	`bad values, i should say`
`04:09.43`	`scanline`	`how about using valgrind?`
`04:09.51`	`captain_proton`	`hmm`
`04:09.51`	`scanline`	`it will tell you if anything relies on uninit'ed memory`
`04:09.57`	`captain_proton`	`valgrind segfaults when i quit`
`04:09.59`	`MrApathyCream`	`and puts boundaries around heap blocks that it checks`
`04:10.13`	`scanline`	`gurmble...`
`04:10.35`	`MrApathyCream`	`TimRiker: nice`
`04:10.45`	`CIA`	`03davidtrowbridge * 12bzflag/src/platform (XDisplay.cxx): fix a couple more instances of naughty memory`
`04:11.34`	`Michaelh`	`valgrind is unix/linux I presume?`
`04:11.40`	`scanline`	`x86 linux only`
`04:11.41`	`captain_proton`	`yep`
`04:11.58`	`captain_proton`	`scanline: you might be able to get it working under one of the bsds in linux emulation mode >:)`
`04:12.02`	`scanline`	`theoretically possible to port, but a hellalottawork`
`04:12.11`	`scanline`	`haha`
`04:12.37`	`MrApathyCream`	`Patlabor221: any reason why our Processor: entry is set to Blend in Project Properties?`
`04:13.14`	`Patlabor221`	`where?`
`04:13.34`	`MrApathyCream`	`c++ tab code generation`
`04:13.49`	`MrApathyCream`	`i think we can assume pentium pro by now :)`
`04:13.51`	`Michaelh`	`lovely -- it doesn't crash in debug mode.......`
`04:13.55`	`Patlabor221`	`it's the default`
`04:14.21`	`Patlabor221`	`actualy I was running it on a P80 a while ago :)`
`04:15.24`	`Michaelh`	`can I set breakpoints and run in debug mode when I am running the release version?`
`04:15.52`	`Patlabor221`	`if you tell it to generate debug info for the release build`
`04:15.58`	`Patlabor221`	`and I would turn off optimisaions`
`04:16.08`	`MrApathyCream`	`VC inits stack memory to 0xCDCDCDCD iirc`
`04:16.12`	`MrApathyCream`	`(in debug)`
`04:16.21`	`captain_proton`	`thats silly`
`04:16.35`	`captain_proton`	`debug mode should be just like normal execution except its got symbols`
`04:16.45`	`Patlabor221`	`you can make it do that`
`04:16.49`	`Michaelh`	`so what does that mean really?`
`04:17.06`	`MrApathyCream`	`it means that if you access a pointer on the stack that's uninitialize it will crash immediately`
`04:17.10`	`MrApathyCream`	`as opposed to down the road`
`04:17.13`	`scanline`	`hahaha`
`04:17.14`	`scanline`	`Player [0] sent unknown packet type (0), possible attack from 127.0.0.1`
`04:17.24`	`MrApathyCream`	`stop attacking yourself`
`04:17.42`	`Patlabor221`	`Michaelh project->settings->C++->general->"generate debug info"`
`04:17.51`	`Patlabor221`	`turn that on then let it fly.`
`04:17.56`	`Michaelh`	`coooooool`
`04:17.59`	`MrApathyCream`	`more likely you are being saved in debug mode because VC pads heap blocks with some extra memory`
`04:18.11`	`MrApathyCream`	`and supposedly checks these areas for writage`
`04:18.27`	`Patlabor221`	`wow scrawl actualy does something now :)`
`04:18.41`	`TimRiker`	`k. xmission should rebuild on commits.`
`04:18.50`	`MrApathyCream`	`nice`
`04:18.59`	`MrApathyCream`	`bz-xp`
`04:19.13`	`TimRiker`	`zbuffer gets reset to yes everytime you restart.`
`04:19.28`	`MrApathyCream`	`now if we only had some unit tests :)`
`04:19.45`	`captain_proton`	`zbuffer needs some work`
`04:19.57`	`TimRiker`	`well, extract the bots, and I'' set some up. ;-)`
`04:19.58`	`captain_proton`	`most importantly, it needs a callback to make sure that a zbuffer is available`
`04:20.30`	`TimRiker`	`it's borken on my laptop so it annoys me.`
`04:20.48`	`TimRiker`	`have to turn it off of I get missing sections of the display.`
`04:21.04`	`MrApathyCream`	`Patlabor221: does bz bork your v.cards gamma?`
`04:21.06`	`captain_proton`	`oh yes, the superbly borked ati mobility`
`04:21.14`	`MrApathyCream`	`(on exit)?`
`04:21.16`	`Patlabor221`	`no`
`04:21.29`	`MrApathyCream`	`it's really annoying`
`04:21.30`	`Patlabor221`	`I have a real chipset tho :)`
`04:21.33`	`captain_proton`	`GASP`
`04:21.34`	`MrApathyCream`	`heh`
`04:21.38`	`Patlabor221`	`what you runnin?`
`04:21.40`	`captain_proton`	`i just realized that 1.9 doesn't have an anaglyph mode!`
`04:21.44`	`captain_proton`	`how will we ever survive!`
`04:21.49`	`MrApathyCream`	`GeForce3 original`
`04:22.09`	`Patlabor221`	`current drivers and DX9?`
`04:22.10`	`MrApathyCream`	`captain_proton: and particles!`
`04:22.25`	`MrApathyCream`	`well, probably not latest latest`
`04:22.26`	`captain_proton`	`particles can wait ;)`
`04:22.36`	`MrApathyCream`	`DX9?`
`04:22.49`	`Patlabor221`	`yeah the nvidias are linked against it for like the gamma stuff`
`04:22.57`	`Patlabor221`	`and the screen size change call`
`04:23.09`	`MrApathyCream`	`hmm`
`04:23.21`	`Michaelh`	`First-chance exception in bzflag.exe: 0xC0000005: Access Violation.`
`04:23.54`	`captain_proton`	`ooh`
`04:23.55`	`Patlabor221`	`BZ does have a couple DX calls that many people arn't aware of.`
`04:24.02`	`captain_proton`	`380MB download for MrApathyCream? :}`
`04:24.12`	`MrApathyCream`	`sigh 2-1/2 days`
`04:24.29`	`Patlabor221`	`1.9 dosn't have cool maps :) http://www.bakadigital.com/images/mapage.jpg`
`04:24.30`	`scanline`	`hmm...`
`04:24.49`	`scanline`	`so, when I send a message over UDP, it does turn on UDP... but then something turns it right back off`
`04:24.58`	`Patlabor221`	`mac, just get the runtimes, that's all you need, BZ will link fine to DX3`
`04:26.03`	`MrApathyCream`	`where do i see what version i'm running?`
`04:26.43`	`Patlabor221`	`what OS you have?`
`04:26.47`	`MrApathyCream`	`xp`
`04:26.55`	`Patlabor221`	`you ever update it?`
`04:27.00`	`Patlabor221`	`like on windows update?`
`04:27.18`	`MrApathyCream`	`um, security patches`
`04:27.29`	`Patlabor221`	`then you probalby have DX 8`
`04:27.36`	`Patlabor221`	`go there and you can get the 9.0a runtimes`
`04:27.45`	`Patlabor221`	`not that large`
`04:27.59`	`MrApathyCream`	`that's what i would have said --> 8`
`04:29.03`	`Michaelh`	`you're saying bzflag now has dx 9 calls?`
`04:29.10`	`Patlabor221`	`no`
`04:29.16`	`Patlabor221`	`never said that`
`04:29.20`	`MrApathyCream`	`From windowsupdate.com --> cannot update system over poly rope/cans`
`04:29.32`	`Patlabor221`	`the current Nvidia drivers REALY want DX9 tho`
`04:29.36`	`Patlabor221`	`they are linked to it`
`04:29.49`	`Patlabor221`	`the common driver kernel thing they use`
`04:30.09`	`Patlabor221`	`BZ just has some DX3 calls`
`04:30.40`	`MrApathyCream`	`DirectX 9.0a End-User Runtime`
`04:30.43`	`MrApathyCream`	`that one?`
`04:30.50`	`Patlabor221`	`yeah`
`04:31.09`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12bzflag/src/bzfs (bzfs.cxx): Removing code to disable UDP link in addPlayer. This would break UDP if a client enabled its UDP connection, but then didn't send any more UDP messages after etnering the game.`
`04:31.13`	`MrApathyCream`	`291k`
`04:31.22`	`MrApathyCream`	`only 43 mins`
`04:32.11`	`MrApathyCream`	`THE GLOVE for THE FIST?`
`04:32.14`	`captain_proton`	`yep`
`04:32.21`	`Patlabor221`	`see not too bad`
`04:32.32`	`Michaelh`	`then you just need a few nose jobs`
`04:32.33`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag/Client (Base.py): Send MsgUDPLinkEstablished over UDP`
`04:32.46`	`MrApathyCream`	`ug. nice description ->`
`04:32.48`	`Patlabor221`	`we have like 4 of them`
`04:32.48`	`MrApathyCream`	`An identified security issue in Microsoft Windows could allow an attacker to compromise a Microsoft Windows-based system and then take a variety of actions. For example, an attacker could execute code on the system. By installing this update, you can help protect your computer. After you install this item, you may have to restart your computer`
`04:33.09`	`captain_proton`	`verbose!`
`04:33.33`	`MrApathyCream`	`they have about 6 patches up here that have the same exact wording`
`04:33.49`	`*** join/#bzflag Chikorita (Chikorita@AC9F327A.ipt.aol.com)`
`04:33.59`	`MrApathyCream`	`i guess the details are on a need to know basis... and you don't`
`04:34.03`	`Chikorita`	`heehe`
`04:34.12`	`captain_proton`	`yep`
`04:34.13`	`Chikorita`	`guess wut..`
`04:34.24`	`Michaelh`	`vc says my bzflag.exe doesn't have debugging info even when I specify it should`
`04:34.24`	`Chikorita`	`i was havin horrible lag tonite...`
`04:34.58`	`Chikorita`	`so i went to da knightmare server an played wif all da cheaters...an dey got pissed at mee LoL`
`04:35.24`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (ServerLink.cxx): Have the C++ bzflag client send MsgUDPLinkEstablished over UDP also, so that observers get incoming messages over UDP too`
`04:35.31`	`Patlabor221`	`just run it Michaelh`
`04:35.32`	`Chikorita`	`i hate cheaters , so i makes mee happy to get dem pissed off`
`04:35.49`	`Chikorita`	`:)`
`04:36.16`	`Chikorita`	`some kid asked mee wut cheat i was using ...an i told him i was using da AOL cheat`
`04:36.22`	`Chikorita`	`LoL`
`04:36.41`	`Chikorita`	`;)`
`04:36.46`	`TimRiker`	`client should send a pingish packet over udp to server, then wait for a pongish packet before assuming udp is up.`
`04:37.04`	`Michaelh`	`knightmere is basically established as a cheating server though, isn't it?`
`04:37.11`	`Chikorita`	`lol ya`
`04:37.17`	`Chikorita`	`<<<cheatin da cheaters`
`04:37.22`	`Chikorita`	`heh`
`04:37.25`	`Michaelh`	`horrible`
`04:37.39`	`Chikorita`	`:P`
`04:37.50`	`MrApathyCream`	`MsgPingish, MsgPongish added`
`04:37.56`	`captain_proton`	`heh`
`04:39.09`	`MrApathyCream`	`26 mins to go`
`04:41.30`	`MrApathyCream`	`Patlabor221: the installer is only 291K, the components that the installer pulls down, well......`
`04:41.40`	`TimRiker`	`so in short... MsgUDPLinkRequest should go over udp and then the server replies.`
`04:42.26`	`Michaelh`	`are we going to have one of those lame installer programs?`
`04:42.27`	`TimRiker`	`needs to start from the client cause the server's address is reachable but the client may be fw'ed`
`04:42.48`	`Chikorita`	`wut does "slap" do in irc?`
`04:42.56`	`TimRiker`	`~slap Chikorita`
`04:42.58`	`Chikorita`	`i tink i slap everyone in da room`
`04:43.05`	`TimRiker`	`~fishslap Chikorita`
`04:43.06`		`ACTION slaps Chikorita up side the head with a wet fish.`
`04:43.09`	`Chikorita`	`lol`
`04:43.13`	`Chikorita`	`ow`
`04:43.19`	`MrApathyCream`	`Michaelh: same as we've had for 1.7g0 and 1.7g2 releass`
`04:43.29`	`Michaelh`	`.. like the IE install -- that's what I was thinking of :)`
`04:43.31`	`Chikorita`	`~slap TimRiker`
`04:43.38`	`scanline`	`TimRiker: that would mean the server's UDP address has to be the same as its TCP address.. that doesn't have to be the case presently`
`04:43.42`	`scanline`	`er`
`04:43.44`	`scanline`	`s/address/port/`
`04:43.55`	`Chikorita`	`hmm he mus have a slap blocker`
`04:43.56`	`Chikorita`	`LoL`
`04:43.57`	`TimRiker`	`scanline: yes. that should always be the case.`
`04:44.02`	`Michaelh`	`... perhaps we can have ........... AUTO UPDATES!!!!!!!`
`04:44.13`	`MrApathyCream`	`patches welcome`
`04:44.16`	`captain_proton`	`erg`
`04:44.18`	`scanline`	`TimRiker: ok.. so the port number the server sends to the client is useless? :)`
`04:44.33`	`Michaelh`	`the new bzflag update watcher utility!`
`04:44.55`	`TimRiker`	`yes. we should now assume that the server's udp port number should always be the same as its tcp port number.`
`04:45.45`	`Michaelh`	`and of course the new bzflag update watcher update watcher utility!`
`04:45.55`	`TimRiker`	`furthermore, we should assume the server will listen on udp always. though the clients might not be able to reach it there.`
`04:46.35`	`Michaelh`	`so the server can play hard to get?`
`04:46.52`	`TimRiker`	`Michaelh: or just hard to reach.`
`04:47.25`	`MrApathyCream`	`TimRiker: so remove -requiredup and -noudp?`
`04:47.57`	`MrApathyCream`	`ok. well, maybe just -noudp`
`04:48.24`	`TimRiker`	`don't remove -requireudp but do remove -noudp`
`04:48.33`	`MrApathyCream`	`right`
`04:49.34`	`MrApathyCream`	`TimRiker: Do you still want "StartServer" in BZFlag client?`
`04:49.56`	`TimRiker`	`MrApathyCream: might as well leave it. perhaps someone will enhance it.`
`04:50.08`	`MrApathyCream`	`that's alot of enhancing ;)`
`04:50.43`	`captain_proton`	`hmm`
`04:50.51`	`Chikorita`	`sum people do use it`
`04:51.04`	`captain_proton`	`so 1.8 iterates over the keymgr`
`04:51.17`	`Chikorita`	`dey start their own server offa their pc's to test new maps`
`04:51.17`	`TimRiker`	`that and -solo 4 (which I wish was a server option)`
`04:51.32`	`MrApathyCream`	`yes solo should be a server opt`
`04:51.47`	`MrApathyCream`	`or at least the ability to veto client attempts`
`04:52.09`	`MrApathyCream`	`s/note/knot/`
`04:52.24`	`TimRiker`	`can't veto client attempts in an open source game.`
`04:53.10`	`TimRiker`	`could strip trailing [0-9] and compare nicks to existing nicks though. that might make it tough enough.`
`04:53.12`	`MrApathyCream`	`disallow 2 clients from same ip?`
`04:53.23`	`captain_proton`	`that breaks NAT`
`04:53.27`	`TimRiker`	`MrApathyCream: nope. firewalls.`
`04:53.59`	`MrApathyCream`	`mm`
`04:54.33`	`MrApathyCream`	`doesn't someone have a bzfs gui launcher?`
`04:54.40`	`Chikorita`	`ya`
`04:54.50`	`TimRiker`	`If we move bots to the server and remove auto launching from the client, that will stop most of the kiddies.`
`04:54.54`	`Chikorita`	`DTRemerack`
`04:54.58`	`captain_proton`	`http://bzfsgui.sourceforge.net/`
`04:55.01`	`Chikorita`	`he has one i think`
`04:56.38`	`Chikorita`	`robots?`
`04:56.42`	`Chikorita`	`heehe`
`04:56.45`	`MrApathyCream`	`People look at Region.cxx and go, "hmm, well maybe not today"`
`04:56.46`	`Chikorita`	`j/k`
`04:57.03`	`scanline`	`how about we ditch the bot code, then add support to the python version of bzfs? :)`
`04:57.22`	`Chikorita`	`i look at Region.cxx an say "huh? wth??"`
`04:57.26`	`Chikorita`	`heehe`
`04:57.31`	`Chikorita`	`j/k`
`04:57.49`	`captain_proton`	`scanline: hah`
`04:57.54`	`JBDiGriz`	`MrApathyCream: we might ditch the bot code on Saturday.`
`04:58.03`	`Chikorita`	`noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo`
`04:58.04`	`Chikorita`	`ok`
`04:58.07`	`scanline`	`the python code has server, client, game state, and views all separate...`
`04:58.08`	`Chikorita`	`heehe`
`04:58.15`	`scanline`	`so one bot class could work server-side or client-side`
`04:58.16`	`captain_proton`	`JBDiGriz: well - whatever happens, the bot code is -not- staying in the client`
`04:58.35`	`captain_proton`	`i'm willing to export a network/game lib from bzflag, i'm willing to force everyone to use pybzflag`
`04:58.38`	`JBDiGriz`	`MrApathyCream: rtft :-)`
`04:58.40`	`scanline`	`hehe`
`05:00.38`	`scanline`	`gah...`
`05:00.40`	`scanline`	`(1.6352694677225471e+32, -310.61984252929688, -334.45294189453125)`
`05:00.47`	`scanline`	`that's not a very good player position`
`05:00.54`	`Chikorita`	`~d`
`05:00.56`	`scanline`	`did someone change msgplayerupdate? :-/`
`05:00.56`	`captain_proton`	`sounds ok to me`
`05:01.00`	`captain_proton`	`err, not quite :)`
`05:01.06`	`MrApathyCream`	`looks ok`
`05:01.07`	`Chikorita`	`sigh`
`05:01.10`	`MrApathyCream`	`-400 - 400`
`05:01.17`	`MrApathyCream`	`-400 <-> 400`
`05:01.23`	`captain_proton`	`MrApathyCream: z is -300, and x is very large`
`05:01.32`	`Chikorita`	`looks like my ctf score..`
`05:01.34`	`MrApathyCream`	`ah`
`05:01.36`	`MrApathyCream`	`heh`
`05:01.39`	`Chikorita`	`heehe`
`05:01.41`	`MrApathyCream`	`ok, maybe nt`
`05:01.41`	`Chikorita`	`:P`
`05:01.42`	`MrApathyCream`	`not`
`05:01.46`	`TimRiker`	`JBDiGriz: it's not likely that we will ditch the bot code till there is new bot code to replace it.`
`05:03.21`	`captain_proton`	`its releasable right now, right?`
`05:03.30`	`MrApathyCream`	`according to chestal, anyway`
`05:03.40`	`TimRiker`	`I heard Chestal pushing for a release, right? ;-)`
`05:03.43`	`scanline`	`wait, let me change a few more packets before we release`
`05:03.46`	`MrApathyCream`	`yup`
`05:03.57`	`MrApathyCream`	`but he's like that... when will he learn`
`05:04.01`	`TimRiker`	`heh`
`05:04.04`	`Chikorita`	`wow , r u all releasin a new version of BZ??`
`05:04.19`	`captain_proton`	`Chikorita: no :)`
`05:04.21`	`scanline`	`Chikorita: yep! it will be done in about 10.2 seconds!`
`05:04.23`	`Chikorita`	`o okies`
`05:04.32`	`Chikorita`	`?`
`05:04.37`	`Chikorita`	`:\`
`05:05.01`	`TimRiker`	`~convert 1 year to seconds`
`05:05.21`	`scanline`	`damn, I was off by a few decimal places`
`05:05.29`	`Chikorita`	`heh`
`05:05.37`	`TimRiker`	`~convert 1 gigayear to seconds`
`05:05.43`	`scanline`	`hehe`
`05:05.54`	`TimRiker`	`~convert 1 petayear to seconds`
`05:05.58`	`MrApathyCream`	`~convert 1 googleplexyear to seconds`
`05:06.06`	`TimRiker`	`hehe`
`05:06.11`	`JBDiGriz`	`TimRiker: The network patch we're discussing breaks bot code.`
`05:06.33`	`Chikorita`	`ibot wont b happy ...`
`05:06.34`		`Chikorita: KCI error, or a problem with the Keyboard-Chair Interface.`
`05:06.49`	`MrApathyCream`	`?`
`05:06.49`	`Chikorita`	`o i c`
`05:07.03`	`MrApathyCream`	`I think diablo is masquerading as ibot`
`05:07.15`	`scanline`	`JBDiGriz: which patch?`
`05:07.24`	`captain_proton`	`heh`
`05:07.35`	`Chikorita`	`~convert 1 oopaloopagigaholysnap to seconds`
`05:07.37`	`TimRiker`	`~convert 1 zettasecond to years`
`05:07.54`	`TimRiker`	`JBDiGriz: which one?`
`05:07.57`	`JBDiGriz`	`scanline: I'll give you the URL in a sec`
`05:08.09`	`scanline`	`k`
`05:08.34`	`TimRiker`	`zetta is the largest ibot knows at present.`
`05:08.41`	`JBDiGriz`	`http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=648597&group_id=3248&atid=303248`
`05:09.01`	`Chikorita`	`~convert 1 carlsagancliche to seconds`
`05:09.07`	`Chikorita`	`heehe`
`05:09.12`	`captain_proton`	`~convert 1 zettamile to centimeters`
`05:09.17`	`captain_proton`	`hehe`
`05:09.20`	`scanline`	`JBDiGriz: ah, good`
`05:09.35`	`TimRiker`	`~convert 1000 seconds to beats`
`05:09.40`	`scanline`	`yaknow...`
`05:09.48`	`Chikorita`	`ooH ibot PM'ed mee tellin mee off`
`05:09.52`	`Chikorita`	`:(`
`05:09.54`	`scanline`	`one of the cool things about python is it would make it easy to use the admin interface to dynamically load bot modules :)`
`05:10.16`	`MrApathyCream`	`for one, that code is soo old that it is relatively useless`
`05:10.21`	`Chikorita`	`ibot funny`
`05:10.22`		`Chikorita: KCI error, or a problem with the Keyboard-Chair Interface.`
`05:11.09`	`Chikorita`	`sumone should give ibot summore canned responses`
`05:11.12`	`Chikorita`	`heehe`
`05:11.38`	`scanline`	`~sci-fi du jour`
`05:11.39`		`There seems to be a ionized anti-tachyon inversion amplifier in 10-forward, ensign spock`
`05:11.40`	`TimRiker`	`Chikorita: patches welcom`
`05:12.04`	`Chikorita`	`it reminds mee of dis old apple puter proggy dat was call "the electronic psychologist"`
`05:12.11`	`scanline`	`~sci-fi du jour`
`05:12.11`		`It's some kind of charged anti-graviton inversion generator in engineering, captain travis`
`05:12.21`	`MrApathyCream`	`Alice?`
`05:12.25`	`Chikorita`	`lol`
`05:12.26`	`JBDiGriz`	`MrApathyCream: There's many things to dislike about the patch, but the idea is to come up with a cleaner interface. That was one implementaion.`
`05:13.49`	`TimRiker`	`JBDiGriz: I'm thinking we want to allow "player proxying" and if set that way the server sends one set of updates to the proxy.`
`05:14.21`	`TimRiker`	`this would mean that you could have a "proxy" player behind a dialup and then a network of players passing through that one.`
`05:15.05`	`captain_proton`	`TimRiker: that should be really easy with scanline's bit`
`05:15.12`	`TimRiker`	`this would be used by the future 1-4 local player console mode and could be used for team play on slow lines, and local bots, etc.`
`05:15.30`	`scanline`	`hehe, indeed it would`
`05:15.40`	`scanline`	`just stick a Client and a Server on the same Game`
`05:15.47`	`Chikorita`	`oops`
`05:16.19`	`Chikorita`	`i tried to kick myself out`
`05:16.21`	`Chikorita`	`heehe`
`05:16.34`	`TimRiker`	`player "proxy" connects to server. Player A connects to proxy, is told where server is, connects to server and informs server of proxy player. server asks proxy to confirm, get's reply and then starts proxying.`
`05:16.39`	`Chikorita`	`ok nite all`
`05:17.23`	`MrApathyCream`	`chiko has lef' da rum`
`05:17.35`	`TimRiker`	`if player "proxy" changes to a different server, all proxied players follow.`
`05:17.59`	`JBDiGriz`	`Who would be in charge of the proxy?`
`05:18.09`	`TimRiker`	`tis one hapnin dude der`
`05:18.16`	`captain_proton`	`MrApathyCream: hehe`
`05:18.47`	`TimRiker`	`the "proxy player" would turn on the option in the gui and they be visable on "find server" replies for local players.`
`05:19.09`	`TimRiker`	`might not ever need to have A contact the server at all.`
`05:19.36`	`JBDiGriz`	`Does it make sense to stuff that into the client, or to have it as a separate capability, similar to relay?`
`05:20.26`	`TimRiker`	`JBDiGriz: on a future console version it would all be in one client. (ie: split screen 4 player mode)`
`05:20.32`	`captain_proton`	`nono, i had it all filed away under the group and everything`
`05:20.50`	`TimRiker`	`but a separate proxy server would be fine wit me`
`05:20.52`	`captain_proton`	`just for some reason never listened to it`
`05:21.12`	`TimRiker`	`need to fix bzfrelay anyway. ;-)`
`05:21.38`	`JBDiGriz`	`Stuffing everything into one big client sort of offends my sensibilities, although emacs is still going strong.`
`05:21.39`	`TimRiker`	`what's dat you sey?`
`05:21.43`	`scanline`	`TimRiker: hey... have I told you about traceproxy? :)`
`05:22.22`	`TimRiker`	`JBDiGriz: I tend to agree. let them share code if it makes sense, but keep them separate.`
`05:22.38`	`TimRiker`	`client can always launch the proxy and connect to localhost. ;-)`
`05:23.00`	`TimRiker`	`scanline: nope. what is it?`
`05:23.18`	`scanline`	`TimRiker: BZFlag proxy server that prints out all traffic in human-readable form`
`05:23.38`	`scanline`	`doesn't do UDP yet, but it should as soon as I get this code working...`
`05:24.03`	`JBDiGriz`	`and then we can break it all on Saturday! ;-)`
`05:24.17`	`scanline`	`JBDiGriz: I thought that patch didn't break protocol?`
`05:24.24`	`scanline`	`either way, it's really easy to change the protocol in this code`
`05:24.38`	`TimRiker`	`scanline: cool. feel free to add it to cvs as a module.`
`05:24.45`	`scanline`	`TimRiker: it's part of pybzflag`
`05:24.49`	`JBDiGriz`	`the patch is just one point of discussion. it's not clear what will really be decided.`
`05:24.52`	`TimRiker`	`even better.`
`05:25.22`	`scanline`	`JBDiGriz: yep. still, really easy to change this stuff :)`
`05:25.52`	`JBDiGriz`	`Sounds like I better start accelerating my reading of the python docs!`
`05:26.09`	`scanline`	`a lot of it's because of python, a lot of it is just clean design`
`05:26.28`	`*** join/#bzflag MrApathyCream (dbrosius@balt-209-163-100-25.qis-dynamic-dialup.coretel.net)`
`05:26.54`	`TimRiker`	`scanline: nod. bzflag was never designed with all this in mind. it shows. ;-)`
`05:27.07`	`TimRiker`	`DX9?`
`05:27.08`	`scanline`	`:)`
`05:27.21`	`MrApathyCream`	`Direct X v9`
`05:27.50`	`captain_proton`	`so much of what we've got are such dirty hacks...`
`05:27.55`	`MrApathyCream`	`ok, ok, so i ran the installer`
`05:31.16`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag (5 files in 3 dirs): Split up socket code into a BaseSocket, a TCPSocket that handles all the funky buffering we do, and a UDPSocket`
`05:32.35`	`MrApathyCream`	`anyone smell smoke?`
`05:32.51`	`captain_proton`	`har har`
`05:36.30`	`Patlabor221`	`wow this looks amazing like a mini-golf course`
`05:36.31`	`Patlabor221`	`http://www.bakadigital.com/images/putput.jpg`
`05:36.54`	`MrApathyCream`	`TimRiker: Shall we get rid of all reference to DeadPlayer class?`
`05:37.16`	`captain_proton`	`MrApathyCream: Chestal was saying he's had some people tell him they wanted it`
`05:37.24`	`captain_proton`	`as in back in the hud (bleah)`
`05:37.48`	`captain_proton`	`Patlabor221: what program is that?`
`05:38.02`	`MrApathyCream`	`yeah, i liked it too, but if we're leavin' it out, it might as well go`
`05:38.09`	`Patlabor221`	`that is scrawl :)`
`05:38.13`	`captain_proton`	`neat`
`05:38.20`	`Patlabor221`	`scrawl does stuff now :)`
`05:38.20`	`captain_proton`	`"DM-Levels" ?`
`05:38.23`	`JBDiGriz`	`Patlabor221: Looks a little escher-like`
`05:38.39`	`Patlabor221`	`it's just test geo cap`
`05:38.46`	`Patlabor221`	`tho scrawl did portalize it`
`05:38.52`	`Patlabor221`	`that's what the blue lines are`
`05:38.55`	`JBDiGriz`	`If that's a map, I hope it doesn't have rico enabled`
`05:39.08`	`Patlabor221`	`why not?`
`05:39.14`	`Patlabor221`	`don't think it would be fun?:)`
`05:40.03`	`JBDiGriz`	`bouncing back and forth all over the place and nowhere to run! :-P`
`05:40.19`	`Patlabor221`	`well go up or down`
`05:40.55`	`JBDiGriz`	`shoot up the ramp or down the ramp, it looks the same!`
`05:41.20`	`Patlabor221`	`if you shoot the ramp would the shot not bounce up into the sky?`
`05:41.33`	`Patlabor221`	`2 ramps are up, 2 are down`
`05:42.23`	`JBDiGriz`	`I would be at the bottom of the ramp, but slightly on it, so I'm shooting at the angle of the ramp, but rico'ing off the walls so anyone on the ramp is toast! :-)`
`05:42.33`	`Patlabor221`	`or just aim up`
`05:43.04`	`Patlabor221`	`or someone jumps the edge and lands on top of you`
`05:43.29`	`JBDiGriz`	`how long is the ramp?`
`05:43.39`	`Patlabor221`	`20 units or something`
`05:43.47`	`Patlabor221`	`I don't recall`
`05:43.50`	`Patlabor221`	`it's just test data`
`05:44.10`	`JBDiGriz`	`I always like sr, it might be fun on that map.`
`05:44.15`	`TimRiker`	`MrApathyCream: deadplayer can die as far as I'm concerned.`
`05:45.21`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag (3 files in 2 dirs): The PyBZFlag client is now UDP-happy`
`05:46.51`	`scanline`	`how cute :)`
`05:47.00`	`MrApathyCream`	`TimRiker: that' good enough for me`
`05:47.14`	`MrApathyCream`	`and it keeps me from borking more important stuff`
`05:53.00`	`*** join/#bzflag doughecka (~Joe@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net)`
`06:02.02`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/ (4 files in 3 dirs): traceproxy now mostly works for UDP. It will intercept the UDP connection between server and client and it will indicate whether a message was received on tcp or udp, but it always retransmits on tcp.`
`06:03.27`	`CIA`	`03dbrosius * 12bzflag/ (6 files in 2 dirs): prune unused deadplayer code from source`
`06:05.07`	`CIA`	`03davidtrowbridge * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (bzflag.cxx): make the radar bindings correct`
`06:06.09`	`CIA`	`03dbrosius * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (2 files): Remove DeadPlayer.cxx`
`06:08.56`	`MrApathyCream`	`l8r`
`06:12.34`	`CIA`	`03davidtrowbridge * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (Makefile.am): no more DeadPlayer`
`06:17.20`	`captain_proton`	`now with 45.3% more voodoo!`
`06:22.23`	`captain_proton`	`hmm`
`06:22.29`	`captain_proton`	`the dashboard folks know how to name things`
`06:22.37`	`captain_proton`	`libremem, cluepacket`
`06:22.59`	`scanline`	`hmmmm`
`06:55.48`	`captain_proton`	`yay for finding solutions in the shower`
`07:03.47`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/ (4 files in 3 dirs): New system for representing clients that makes reading and writing TCP and UDP very friendly`
`07:04.02`	`scanline`	`captain_proton: isn't it fun?`
`07:06.09`	`captain_proton`	`well i was strange and dange and dangerously close to being dange and strange and strangerously dost`
`07:06.33`	`captain_proton`	`what a great band`
`07:06.45`	`scanline`	`which one?`
`07:06.57`	`captain_proton`	`ugly americans`
`07:07.06`	`CIA`	`03davidtrowbridge * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (menus.cxx): start to unbork the keybinding menu`
`07:07.23`	`scanline`	`ooh, I recognize this song`
`07:11.10`	`captain_proton`	`so i think i need to do vizlab stuff in python`
`07:11.16`	`scanline`	`why?`
`07:11.18`	`captain_proton`	`just to avoid having to do all the crappy stuff myself`
`07:11.23`	`scanline`	`heheh`
`07:13.07`	`scanline`	`going to swig the trackd library then?`
`07:13.13`	`captain_proton`	`yep`
`07:13.17`	`captain_proton`	`its a really simple library`
`07:17.29`	`CIA`	`03davidtrowbridge * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (2 files): make keybinding menu a little bit more sane`
`07:19.42`	`captain_proton`	`thats the beauty of prototype-based OO rather than class-based`
`07:19.52`	`scanline`	`indeed`
`07:37.54`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Moved message dumping code from traceproxy into Util after cleaning it up a bit, made traceproxy fully UDP-friendly`
`07:38.43`	`CIA`	`03davidtrowbridge * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (menus.cxx): beginning of editing`
`07:45.27`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Moved proxy code to Util. Now traceproxy is only command line processing and message filtering code`
`07:49.00`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/ (2 files in 2 dirs): hooray, it's a not-so-verbose proxy server`
`07:50.35`	`CIA`	`03davidtrowbridge * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (menus.cxx): make the keybinding menu work`
`07:52.12`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/ (TODO): Updating TODO list... finished UDP, the MacOS X related item that learner probably added was taken care of with the addition of real timer code.`
`07:55.42`	`CIA`	`03davidtrowbridge * 12bzflag/ (2 files in 2 dirs): eliminate old keymap stuff from menus, list known bugs`
`07:55.57`	`scanline`	`hooray for bzflag commits`
`07:57.51`	`scanline`	`hooray for a bzfs that understands dead reckoning`
`07:59.20`	`captain_proton`	`yay`
`08:00.42`	`scanline`	`hmmmm.`
`08:02.10`	`CIA`	`03davidtrowbridge * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (5 files): get really rid of BzfKeyMap`
`08:03.15`	`CIA`	`03davidtrowbridge * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (2 files): remove the files`
`08:06.28`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/ (5 files in 5 dirs): Add --view option to bzfs, OverheadView.attach() initializes right away now rather than waiting until the first load. This fixes the display not initializing if attach() is called after loading the world.`
`08:11.14`	`CIA`	`03davidtrowbridge * 12bzflag/src (3 files in 2 dirs): switch over completely to new config`
`08:13.01`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/ (4 files in 4 dirs): The --world option to bzfs can now be either a filename or a factory from BZFlag.World.Generator. So far this includes Blank and Random.`
`08:13.20`	`CIA`	`03davidtrowbridge * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (2 files): remove resources.(h\|cxx) from the build`
`08:14.00`	`CIA`	`03davidtrowbridge * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (2 files): remove the files`
`08:14.02`	`captain_proton`	`can you make sure you build & run ok?`
`08:14.09`	`scanline`	`ok`
`08:16.12`	`scanline`	`looks like it works`
`08:16.24`	`captain_proton`	`yay`
`08:16.24`	`scanline`	`it just lost my callsign and the last server I was on`
`08:16.35`	`scanline`	`oh hm...`
`08:16.36`	`captain_proton`	`hmm`
`08:16.44`	`scanline`	`I just started it again and my callsign was gone again`
`08:17.02`	`captain_proton`	`odd`
`08:18.26`	`scanline`	`hmm..`
`08:18.44`	`scanline`	`the pyramids in xmission are flipZ'ed.. the ones in brlcad are fine`
`08:18.56`	`scanline`	`though whenever I shoot, I drop my flag`
`08:19.43`	`captain_proton`	`hmm`
`08:19.48`	`captain_proton`	`the shoot-drop thing was fixed`
`08:20.22`	`scanline`	`heh, hooray for ccache`
`08:21.54`	`scanline`	`yep, same stuff`
`08:22.28`	`scanline`	`twiddling?`
`08:25.12`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag (Util.py): Ingnore a few more attributes when dumping messages`
`08:26.29`	`scanline`	`hmm...`
`08:26.36`	`scanline`	`so the flag dropping was a server side problem?`
`08:26.52`	`scanline`	`I'm seeing a MsgShotBegin to the server, then immediately afterward a MsgDropFlag and MsgFlagUpdate from server`
`08:26.58`	`CIA`	`03davidtrowbridge * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (bzflag.cxx): make it actually read config values`
`08:26.59`	`captain_proton`	`yeah, think so`
`08:28.20`	`captain_proton`	`ok, naptime`
`08:28.34`	`scanline`	`g'night`
`08:30.10`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag (Network.py): Fix broken unknown packet type warning`
`08:32.27`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag (Network.py): oops`
`08:33.55`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag/Protocol (ToServer.py): Add MsgShotEnd to ToServer`
`08:38.38`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Cleaner way of dumping messages in traceproxy that doesn't ignore messages handled by BaseClient and BaseServer`
`08:42.03`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/ (worldviewer.py): Fix worldviewer`
`09:11.02`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Spiffy new really powerful way to load worlds`
`09:24.20`	`scanline`	`ahhh`
`09:24.22`	`scanline`	`./bzfs.py -w 'Random(randomHeights=True, boxHeight=2)'`
`09:27.56`	`*** join/#bzflag MrCooper (~daenzer@dclient80-218-118-173.hispeed.ch)`
`09:51.40`	`Chestal`	`tag`
`09:57.53`	`scanline`	`poing`
`09:59.06`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag (5 files in 3 dirs): Binary and text worlds are no longer special cases now, they are factory functions that sit alongside Empty and Random. This makes it possible to specify binary world files on the command line to bzfs or worldviewer. Handy for inspecting or using world files you find in your cache.`
`10:16.36`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag (3 files in 2 dirs): Added an alternate world name format that's much more friendly to the command line. For example, text:bunnyhunt.bzw,size=450 instead of Text("bunnyhunt.bzw", size=450)`
`10:27.45`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag (2 files in 2 dirs): Add new players to our game state. Watching clients drive around in the overhead view works now`
`10:33.27`	`*** join/#bzflag iLLf8d (~neener@user-0can1b0.cable.mindspring.com)`
`10:38.36`	`iLLf8d`	`hmm anyone know if there are shortcut keys to change the modes in bzedit on windows? ie to move from resizing to movement etc...`
`10:40.07`	`iLLf8d`	`hmm I don't see any mention of hotkeys to switch the modes`
`10:40.17`	`iLLf8d`	`must be all buttons I guess thats a bummer`
`10:40.52`	`doug_work`	`heya iLLf8d`
`10:44.58`	`iLLf8d`	`greetings`
`10:45.01`	`iLLf8d`	`how goes it`
`10:45.45`	`doug_work`	`fine`
`10:45.48`	`doug_work`	`I guess`
`10:45.55`	`iLLf8d`	`heh`
`10:46.01`	`iLLf8d`	`you're working then I'd say yes`
`10:46.02`	`doug_work`	`how it goes when I go to work at 5:30 am :)`
`10:46.21`	`iLLf8d`	`when i'm working I leave about that time too`
`10:46.30`	`iLLf8d`	`wish I was working atm`
`10:46.41`	`iLLf8d`	`earliest I gotta go is 4:30am usually`
`10:47.58`	`doug_work`	`ah :)`
`11:00.21`	`learner`	`Mmmmmm... chewy`
`11:00.55`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag (2 files in 2 dirs): Added something terrifying`
`11:17.36`	`CIA`	`03micahjd * 12pybzflag/BZFlag/World (Generator.py): Change default height scale`
`11:53.22`	`learner`	`ha.. :)`
`11:53.36`	`learner`	`I slept 11 hours`
`11:54.17`	`learner`	`0x000bb784 in FlagSceneNode::setColor(float, float, float, float) (this=0x10001, r=1, g=1, b=1, a=1) at FlagSceneNode.cxx:84`
`11:54.18`	`learner`	`84 color[0] = r;`
`11:54.21`	`learner`	`hrm`
`11:57.44`	`*** join/#bzflag david_v (~david_v@c213-200-135-241.cm-upc.chello.se)`
`12:01.32`	`Chestal`	`this=0x10001 looks suspicious, doesn't it?`
`12:02.09`	`learner`	`quite`
`12:04.11`	`learner`	`means World.cxx:383 is no good (flagNodes[index])`
`12:04.18`	`learner`	`index ends up being 3`
`12:10.31`	`fiberchunks`	`I keep getting seg faults on timekeeper for some reason`
`12:11.16`	`fiberchunks`	`but without new snaps, I have no way of seeing if it's my sys or the snap :\`
`12:11.29`	`fiberchunks`	`I think something got hosered on my system last night`
`12:14.46`	`learner`	`fiber, http://brlcad.org/tmp/bzflag.tar.gz if you want to be sure`
`12:15.11`	`fiberchunks`	`thanks sir ;)`
`12:20.07`	`doug_work`	`ooh, heres a new one: Hard Drive Detects Imminent Failure`
`12:20.46`	`iLLf8d`	`hey whats the command to reset flags on a ctf field?`
`12:20.56`	`iLLf8d`	`endGame?`
`12:21.08`	`doug_work`	`<PROTECTED>`
`12:21.13`	`doug_work`	`I forget`
`12:21.47`	`iLLf8d`	`I see flag mod and flag history`
`12:21.50`	`learner`	`<PROTECTED>`
`12:22.02`	`iLLf8d`	`heh`
`12:22.09`	`learner`	`<PROTECTED>`
`13:38.19`	`*** join/#bzflag ibot (ibot@208.186.182.172)`
`13:38.19`	`* topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://list.BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://stats.BZFlag.org/ \|\| forums http://bzbb.bzflag.org \|\| put javadoc-style / comments */ in headers! \|\| cvs snapshots: http://sfsnap.babylonia.flatirons.org/ \|\| http://brlcad.org/bzflag/source \|\| dev meeting http://www.worldtimeserver.com/?h=7&mn=00&ap=pm&mo=7&d=12&y=2003&f=UT`
`13:38.20`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o ibot] by ChanServ`
`13:38.38`	`learner`	`who is atupone?`
`13:39.05`	`learner`	`better put: who's working on autoconf stuff?`
`13:39.50`	`CIA`	`03chestal * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (bzflag.cxx): swap radar zoom keys 1 and 3`
`13:51.26`	`*** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@63.147.94.145)`
`13:52.16`	`doug_work`	`how do I use tar to backup my home folder?`
`13:52.36`	`learner`	`eh?`
`13:52.56`	`doug_work`	`I want to backup /home/user to /mnt/snap/backupp`
`13:52.56`	`learner`	`tar zcvf /tmp/home.tar.gz ~/`
`13:53.03`	`doug_work`	`ah, thx`
`13:53.17`	`*** join/#bzflag paul ([ORQM4rWYA@alphyra-gw.as9196.net)`
`13:53.40`	`learner`	`so, tar zcvf /mnt/snap/backup.tar.gz /home/user`
`13:53.55`	`doug_work`	`wee, there it goes :)`
`13:54.32`	`learner`	`no debian? :)`
`13:54.49`	`doug_work`	`its not indrusty standard :)`
`13:55.16`	`doug_work`	`ah, snap servers are cool, here I go...`
`14:10.02`	`*** join/#bzflag TimRiker (~timr@proxyle02.ext.ti.com)`
`14:10.02`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ`
`14:10.14`	`doughecka`	`hey TimRiker`
`14:22.26`	`CIA`	`03timriker * 12bzflag/ (TODO): server placed players, proxy crap, flag hiding`
`14:25.13`	`doughecka`	`you got bzflag to work through a http proxy?`
`14:26.04`	`TimRiker`	`no. well, yes with external hacking (transconnect). would be nice to add it internal.`
`14:26.18`	`TimRiker`	`no udp that way though.`
`14:26.24`	`doughecka`	`ah`
`14:26.35`	`doughecka`	`does ssh port foaawrding do udp?`
`14:26.52`	`Chestal`	`hmm, I see the UDP handshaking has changed`
`14:27.03`	`Chestal`	`well, guess we can discuss this tomorrow`
`14:42.14`	`captain_proton`	`Chestal: you can now run without fear of messing up your 1.7 config :)`
`14:43.40`	`Chestal`	`proton: hurrah`
`14:44.33`	`Chestal`	`proton: when I add 'set showFlagHelp 0' to my config, bz crashes on start`
`14:44.45`	`Chestal`	`guess it's because of the callback, which tries toaccess mytank among others`
`14:56.49`	`learner`	`yay`
`15:00.48`	`*** join/#bzflag david_v (~david_v@c213-200-135-241.cm-upc.chello.se)`
`15:00.52`	`CIA`	`03brlcad * 12bzflag/ (configure.in): Unbork OS X from building due to insufficient OpenGL checks`
`15:01.23`	`captain_proton`	`heh, tupone's "fix" hit you as well?`
`15:02.05`	`learner`	`quite`
`15:02.31`	`learner`	`that was why I was bus error'ing last night`
`15:02.48`	`learner`	`bzflag binary hadn't really rebuilt in a while`
`15:02.50`	`captain_proton`	`yay for bus errors`
`15:03.09`	`learner`	`last build was that bad packing build`
`15:03.21`	`captain_proton`	`yeeks`
`15:04.19`	`CIA`	`03davidtrowbridge * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (callbacks.cxx): always check that myTank exists`
`15:07.00`	`*** join/#bzflag Legolas (~Legolas@adsl-68-73-89-127.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net)`
`15:07.04`	`*** join/#bzflag bzgirl (~brat@toronto-hs-64-26-176-100.s-ip.magma.ca)`
`15:07.10`	`bzgirl`	`hello`
`15:07.15`	`david_v`	`hi bzgirl`
`15:07.44`	`captain_proton`	`ooh`
`15:07.47`	`captain_proton`	`a curry() function`
`15:08.08`	`david_v`	`curry lol :)`
`15:08.18`	`learner`	`hello, girl`
`15:08.30`	`david_v`	`why not chili()`
`15:08.45`	`learner`	`mmm.. food .. mmmm... indian food`
`15:08.49`	`david_v`	`hehe`
`15:09.38`	`*** join/#bzflag BeZee (~bezee@pD9E490D1.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`15:09.47`	`Legolas`	`hi bzgirl`
`15:09.50`	`Legolas`	`hi beezee`
`15:09.53`	`bzgirl`	`hi lego`
`15:09.56`	`BeZee`	`hi`
`15:10.34`	`Legolas`	`how's life?`
`15:10.35`	`Chestal`	`hmm, curry, I'm getting real hungry`
`15:10.58`	`Legolas`	`good?`
`15:11.39`	`david_v`	`hey bezee`
`15:11.59`	`david_v`	`i just ate a pizza a little bit ago. not to tease you or anything ;)`
`15:12.38`	`captain_proton`	`=)`
`15:12.49`	`Legolas`	`have fun learner`
`15:13.00`	`captain_proton`	`indian curries vs. thai curries - hard to decide`
`15:13.38`	`david_v`	`learner: dog's bones? :)`
`15:14.30`	`bzgirl`	`Gerbils map makes bzfs run at 99% cpu`
`15:14.49`	`bzgirl`	`Decks runs at 1%`
`15:15.50`	`captain_proton`	`something is busy looping`
`15:16.01`	`bzgirl`	`how can i find out?`
`15:16.04`	`captain_proton`	`no map should increase bzfs processor usage`
`15:18.41`	`Chestal`	`couldn't lots of buildings and flags lead to more compute intensive checks?`
`15:18.43`	`bzgirl`	`oh, Thai Red Curry is better than an Indian Vindaloo in my humble opinion`
`15:19.12`	`captain_proton`	`Chestal: true, but flags are not part of the map`
`15:19.36`	`bzgirl`	`I'll try to run it with no flags`
`15:20.06`	`Chestal`	`proton: but for flag spawns the server must find a suitable spot, that could have _some_ effect`
`15:20.44`	`*** join/#bzflag david_v (~david_v@c213-200-135-241.cm-upc.chello.se)`
`15:20.55`	`captain_proton`	`Chestal: eh...`
`15:21.04`	`captain_proton`	`not 100% processor ;)`
`15:21.07`	`captain_proton`	`even on a gerbil map`
`15:21.35`	`Chestal`	`captain_proton:`
`15:21.42`	`captain_proton`	`Chestal:`
`15:28.27`	`*** join/#bzflag larsl_56k (~larsl@md469245a.utfors.se)`
`15:32.31`	`*** join/#bzflag patlabor221 (~jeffm@208.48.199.214)`
`15:32.47`	`bzgirl`	`well it runs fine with no flags`
`15:32.56`	`captain_proton`	`odd`
`15:33.08`	`*** join/#bzflag patlabor221 (~jeffm@208.48.199.214)`
`15:33.14`	`captain_proton`	`heh`
`15:33.20`	`bzgirl`	`going to try adding a few flags at a time`
`15:33.44`	`*** join/#bzflag patlabor221 (~jeffm@208.48.199.214)`
`15:34.19`	`*** join/#bzflag patlabor221 (~jeffm@208.48.199.214)`
`15:34.55`	`*** join/#bzflag patlabor221 (~jeffm@208.48.199.214)`
`15:35.30`	`*** join/#bzflag patlabor221 (~jeffm@208.48.199.214)`
`15:36.05`	`*** join/#bzflag patlabor221 (~jeffm@208.48.199.214)`
`15:36.42`	`*** join/#bzflag patlabor221 (~jeffm@208.48.199.214)`
`15:37.18`	`*** join/#bzflag patlabor221 (~jeffm@208.48.199.214)`
`15:37.53`	`*** join/#bzflag patlabor221 (~jeffm@208.48.199.214)`
`15:38.28`	`*** join/#bzflag patlabor221 (~jeffm@208.48.199.214)`
`15:38.58`	`Chestal`	`waah, configure.in changed`
`15:39.44`	`*** join/#bzflag patlabor221sdfas (~jeffm@208.48.199.214)`
`15:39.51`	`Chestal`	`learner: grrrr`
`15:40.00`	`Chestal`	`welcome back, pat :-)`
`15:40.20`	`learner`	`hrmph! pat gets a welcome, I get a growl!`
`15:40.20`	`doughecka`	`lol`
`15:40.28`	`david_v`	`:)`
`15:40.32`	`patlabor221`	`cus I am sooooooooo cool`
`15:40.37`	`david_v`	`it was the food :)`
`15:40.55`	`patlabor221`	`and I think autoghost pissed him off :)`
`15:41.13`	`doughecka`	`hehehe`
`15:41.40`	`learner`	`a bit late, eh, cap?`
`15:42.35`	`bzgirl`	`ok so adding 20 flags to that map makes the server run at 98% :(`
`15:43.07`	`learner`	`ew`
`15:45.28`	`learner`	`girl, how many flags?`
`15:45.34`	`bzgirl`	`20`
`15:45.40`	`learner`	`eek`
`15:45.47`	`learner`	`total?`
`15:46.56`	`bzgirl`	`yup`
`15:47.26`	`learner`	`mind if I try the map, options?`
`15:47.40`	`bzgirl`	`ok`
`15:48.03`	`bzgirl`	`http://stats.bzflag.org/maps.php?PHPSESSID=2b41378aab5203b5c8ad70472bc500af`
`15:48.08`	`bzgirl`	`gerbils lair`
`15:50.39`	`learner`	`girl: config?`
`15:51.08`	`bzgirl`	`oh`
`15:51.19`	`bzgirl`	`hold on`
`15:53.36`	`patlabor221`	`she has a web server`
`15:54.39`	`bzgirl`	`i have a webserver, but i requires scp, pasting it to you learner is faster`
`15:55.38`	`learner`	`I don't mind.. I'm just complaining about cut'n'pasting :)`
`15:56.36`	`*** join/#bzflag mmu_man (~revol@ALyon-209-1-4-81.w217-128.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`15:58.12`	`learner`	`-pr == response port for v1.7 ?`
`15:58.44`	`bzgirl`	`yes`
`16:01.49`	`learner`	`heheh, I forget who Sir Lagsalot is, but he leaves funny reports`
`16:02.16`	`patlabor221`	`that is miachelh IIRC`
`16:13.24`	`learner`	`Wow. Intense map.`
`16:13.34`	`learner`	`someone connect so I can watch it`
`16:13.57`	`bzgirl`	`its not listed`
`16:14.08`	`learner`	`it's a 1.9 server, girl`
`16:14.16`	`bzgirl`	`oh`
`16:14.31`	`learner`	`it seems to have the same problem, though`
`16:14.51`	`learner`	`but it wasn't clear that it wasn't the client`
`16:15.38`	`learner`	`hmmm`
`16:15.46`	`bzgirl`	`i cant connect`
`16:16.15`	`learner`	`you connected briefly`
`16:16.18`	`learner`	`when did you last build?`
`16:16.40`	`bzgirl`	`two weeks ago :)`
`16:16.53`	`learner`	`eek!`
`16:17.08`	`learner`	`and Lars just crashed the server :)`
`16:17.33`	`scanline`	`bzgirl: i think we broke protocol about a dozen times this week`
`16:17.39`	`learner`	`but that's a differnt bug`
`16:17.40`	`larsl_56k`	`Wow.`
`16:17.53`	`bzgirl`	`scanline: yeah, im getting new one now`
`16:17.56`	`scanline`	`but that's the idea behind 1.9 :)`
`16:18.03`	`larsl_56k`	`I think my client is up to date.`
`16:18.16`	`learner`	`I think if the client makes a kill, the server crashes`
`16:18.44`	`scanline`	`that'd be one advantage of switching to python for rthe server... you can catch and log exceptions without crashing`
`16:19.03`	`learner`	`pushing your python drugs? :)`
`16:19.30`	`learner`	`we could catch and log exceptions in bzfs if it were written right, too :)`
`16:19.41`	`learner`	`just a "little more code" :)`
`16:20.20`	`learner`	`but lemme update it, girl`
`16:22.30`	`scanline`	`well, python really makes sense for the server :)`
`16:22.47`	`scanline`	`loading new code dynamically, crashproof, easy to modify...`
`16:28.04`	`scanline`	`larsl_56k: well, there's a difference between code that wasn't designed to do anything like what it's actually doing, and code that's designed right from the beginning`
`16:28.23`	`larsl_56k`	`Yes, that's true.`
`16:28.38`	`learner`	`scanline, "the python pimp"`
`16:28.52`	`scanline`	`I find at least that most people that contribute to a project try to keep a style similar to the existing code, so if the existing code is messy the patches will be too`
`16:28.54`	`*** join/#bzflag prot-work (~jupiter@161.97.199.99)`
`16:29.01`	`patlabor221`	`ohh how I lub skyboxes :)`
`16:29.06`	`scanline`	`learner: hey, if you learned python you'd want to hug it too`
`16:29.18`	`learner`	`hehe, I know it`
`16:29.21`	`learner`	`I like it`
`16:29.26`	`scanline`	`I still use C and C++, but I like python much better :)`
`16:29.32`	`scanline`	`oh, good :)_`
`16:29.36`	`learner`	`I'm not religious to any language or platform`
`16:29.43`	`learner`	`:)`
`16:30.44`	`learner`	`Player [0] sent unknown packet type (0), possible attack from 217.228.144.209`
`16:31.10`	`larsl_56k`	`Was that me?`
`16:31.34`	`learner`	`no, it was bezee`
`16:31.50`	`learner`	`unless you're bezee`
`16:32.11`	`BeZee`	`yes i am bezee`
`16:32.25`	`learner`	`heh`
`16:32.53`	`larsl_56k`	`Hm, my client crashes on startup now.`
`16:33.07`	`larsl_56k`	`#0 0x0807716a in TimeKeeper::operator=(TimeKeeper const&) (this=0x224, t=@0x81b1380) at ../../include/TimeKeeper.h:73`
`16:33.12`	`*** join/#bzflag JBDiGriz (~JBDiGriz@216.188.65.26)`
`16:33.46`	`learner`	`mornin' jb`
`16:33.54`	`*** join/#bzflag prot-wor1 (~jupiter@161.97.199.99)`
`16:34.05`	`JBDiGriz`	`g'morning! and isn't it a lovely morning!`
`16:35.01`	`learner`	`not here`
`16:35.08`	`patlabor221`	`it's morning?`
`16:36.31`	`larsl_56k`	`It works again when I remove .bzflag19.`
`16:36.54`	`larsl_56k`	`Hehe, I don't think that map was designed for 1.9. I was trapped under the pyramid roof.`
`16:40.13`	`prot-wor1`	`hiya scanline`
`16:42.26`	`learner`	`server version shouldn't depend on bzfs version..`
`16:44.07`	`*** join/#bzflag Chikorita (Chikorita@AC865D8A.ipt.aol.com)`
`16:44.12`	`learner`	`er.. s/server version/map/`
`16:44.29`	`learner`	`evenin' chika`
`16:45.03`	`Chikorita`	`learner`
`16:45.08`	`Chikorita`	`hi u`
`16:45.11`	`Chikorita`	`;)`
`16:45.47`	`JBDiGriz`	`learner's not sure what time it is. :-)`
`16:46.49`	`learner`	`I'm only half confused`
`16:46.51`	`learner`	`:)`
`16:47.04`	`JBDiGriz`	`Which half?`
`16:47.30`	`learner`	`the right half`
`16:47.53`	`JBDiGriz`	`It's better to confuse the wrong half.`
`16:51.08`	`learner`	`can anyone connect and successfully move around on gerbil's map?`
`16:51.48`	`Chikorita`	`im gonna go take a showa , bbl...`
`16:51.53`	`learner`	`girl, I haven't noticed massive cpu usage for the server, but the client sure does`
`16:51.57`	`CIA`	`03jeffm2501 * 12bzeditw32/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Leading and trailing spaces are read properly, output maps are indented for readability.`
`16:52.02`	`Chikorita`	`learner r u @ werk right now?`
`16:52.07`	`learner`	`nope!`
`16:52.08`	`learner`	`:)`
`16:52.33`	`learner`	`took the day off after the fiasco I was put through yesterday`
`16:52.33`	`Chikorita`	`kewl`
`16:52.33`	`bzgirl`	`learner: it still locks up`
`16:52.42`	`learner`	`hrm`
`16:52.49`	`Chikorita`	`fiasco?`
`16:52.50`	`learner`	`anyone else get the same?`
`16:53.14`	`larsl_56k`	`learner: I could move.`
`16:53.37`	`larsl_56k`	`I got stuck on the pyramids because of the new collision checks though. =)`
`16:53.39`	`learner`	`Chika, I had a deadline -- was up all night finishing something for our team; then yesterday it was "decided" high up that we were not going to submit`
`16:53.40`	`Chikorita`	`anywayzz imma b on in like...1hour`
`16:53.48`	`learner`	`after I had been up all night :(`
`16:53.51`	`Chikorita`	`ooH`
`16:53.52`	`bzgirl`	`patlabor221: that should fix that thing with the boxes being all xyz 0?`
`16:53.54`	`Chikorita`	`aww`
`16:53.54`	`prot-work`	`poor learner`
`16:53.58`	`Chikorita`	`dat sux`
`16:53.58`	`learner`	`poor me`
`16:53.59`	`patlabor221`	`yes`
`16:54.26`	`patlabor221`	`it now strips all leading and trailing spaces, it should be happy now reading any kind of map file`
`16:54.39`	`bzgirl`	`so i need to download it`
`16:55.14`	`learner`	`hrm. girl was your build with the first tarball or the second?`
`16:55.20`	`bzgirl`	`first`
`16:55.36`	`learner`	`shouldn't matter`
`16:55.48`	`learner`	`I'll see what I can figure out`
`17:04.32`	`learner`	`getting unknown packet type from brygen`
`17:05.26`	`Legolas`	`bye all`
`17:05.33`	`bzgirl`	`cu`
`17:06.12`	`bryjen`	`old client. sfsnap is a bit behind.`
`17:07.08`	`learner`	`http://brlcad.org/tmp/bzflag.tar.gz`
`17:07.35`	`patlabor221`	`it scares me`
`17:10.26`	`learner`	`hehehe`
`17:10.54`	`learner`	`hey, quit picking on my measly 31KB/s upload`
`17:11.28`	`bryjen`	`I was getting 7 -- count 'em --- 7kbs :(`
`17:11.43`	`learner`	`eek! that must have been you! :)`
`17:11.52`	`patlabor221`	`I remember when I was exstatic to get 4k/s`
`17:12.12`	`patlabor221`	`now I bahhh at 50`
`17:13.06`	`learner`	`heh, if I'm not seeing at least a meg a second, I get po-d`
`17:13.31`	`bryjen`	`I've got a full T1 here. Musta been some Least Logic Routing Protocol. ;)`
`17:14.22`	`*** join/#bzflag Mayhem (~Mayhem@dsl-217-155-141-174.zen.co.uk)`
`17:15.04`	`learner`	`hrm`
`17:16.51`	`bryjen`	`Cool. No more unintentional drive\|shoot thru objects! :) Drive thru Z>0 hacks don't work tho :(`
`17:18.00`	`bryjen`	`Hehe. Low FPS fall throughs make up for that.`
`17:18.45`	`learner`	`that's the "big" map`
`17:21.22`	`bryjen`	`full 'o crap map. Has a nicer ring to it ;)`
`17:22.12`	`*** join/#bzflag JBDiGriz (~dbw@216.188.65.26)`
`17:25.07`	`*** part/#bzflag JBDiGriz (~dbw@216.188.65.26)`
`17:25.38`	`*** join/#bzflag JBDiGriz (~JBDiGriz@216.188.65.26)`
`17:26.14`	`JBDiGriz`	`I think I'll stick with x-chat for a little longer.`
`17:33.14`	`Chikorita`	`im back ..`
`17:33.36`	`Chikorita`	`a lil damp , buh im here :)`
`17:33.54`	`Chikorita`	`heehe`
`17:34.16`	`Chikorita`	`<<<green apple fresh`
`17:34.19`	`Chikorita`	`;)`
`17:35.27`	`Chikorita`	`hello?`
`17:35.44`	`learner`	`:)`
`17:35.53`	`learner`	`you tease`
`17:35.59`	`Chikorita`	`learner :)`
`17:36.02`	`Chikorita`	`tease?`
`17:36.06`	`Chikorita`	`how so?`
`17:37.14`	`bzgirl`	`hi Chikorita`
`17:37.21`	`Chikorita`	`now i kno y peeps alwayz loiter in here , u can leave for an hour an come back an read da full 10 sentences of convo dat have transpired ...`
`17:37.34`	`Chikorita`	`hi bzg`
`17:40.29`	`Chikorita`	`i luv soda..`
`17:40.45`	`learner`	`so does fizzy`
`17:40.54`	`bzgirl`	`yup :)`
`17:41.07`	`bzgirl`	`orange crush..yummy`
`17:41.45`	`Chikorita`	`lookin forward to mah mornin pepsi iz wut makes mee wanna get up early..`
`17:42.03`	`Chikorita`	`mmm have u tried tropical mt.deww?`
`17:42.08`	`Chikorita`	`itz so good`
`17:42.22`	`Chikorita`	`an umm da new sprite remix`
`17:43.16`	`Chikorita`	`o an u kno wut else iz good?`
`17:43.46`	`learner`	`what`
`17:43.56`	`Chikorita`	`starbux mocha`
`17:44.01`	`Chikorita`	`omg`
`17:44.06`	`Chikorita`	`dat iz da yum`
`17:44.08`	`Chikorita`	`heehe`
`17:44.18`	`Chikorita`	`:P~~~~~~`
`17:44.45`	`learner`	`hehe, I love their iced coconut mocha`
`17:44.45`	`bzgirl`	`:)`
`17:44.56`	`Chikorita`	`dey make coconut now?`
`17:44.58`	`Chikorita`	`wow`
`17:45.11`	`learner`	`for a couple months now :)`
`17:45.14`	`prot-work`	`almost all starbucks coffee is burned :P`
`17:45.23`	`prot-work`	`i think the only kind i've had that isn't is the sumatran`
`17:45.38`	`Chikorita`	`u kno in canada , dey make dis soda call pepsi lite ? itz like 50%diet and 50%regular pepsi ...u dunt c dat in da states`
`17:45.39`	`learner`	`er, s/iced/frappuchino/`
`17:45.42`	`doughecka`	`woo, 5 10000 rpm scsi drives :)`
`17:46.30`	`Chikorita`	`:(`
`17:46.43`	`bzgirl`	`Chikorita: its not very good (pepsi lite)`
`17:46.52`	`Chikorita`	`i hafta recharge it lata taday`
`17:47.14`	`Chikorita`	`o i kno , i tried it once jus 2 c wut it was like`
`17:47.44`	`Chikorita`	`it taste kinda strange...`
`17:48.23`	`Chikorita`	`u kno wut da werst kinda soda iz?`
`17:48.28`	`Chikorita`	`Pepsi blu`
`17:48.55`	`Chikorita`	`itz nassy`
`17:48.58`	`Chikorita`	`:P`
`17:49.12`	`Chikorita`	`o an pepsi One`
`17:49.16`	`Chikorita`	`grosssssssssssssssssssss`
`17:49.21`	`Chikorita`	`:P`
`17:49.24`	`Chikorita`	`gags`
`17:49.26`	`Chikorita`	`heehe`
`17:49.35`	`Chikorita`	`wow i talkin to meeslef`
`17:49.35`	`*** join/#bzflag daBomb (dalskdjald@215-bem-10.acn.waw.pl)`
`17:49.43`	`Chikorita`	`hi dabomb`
`17:49.48`	`daBomb`	`hi chik`
`17:50.03`	`learner`	`Chikorita: heheh`
`17:50.04`	`daBomb`	`why r u not playin?`
`17:50.09`	`daBomb`	`hi learner`
`17:50.26`	`Chikorita`	`~d`
`17:50.36`	`learner`	`hi, bomb`
`17:50.40`	`Chikorita`	`ooH greg iz on`
`17:50.43`	`daBomb`	`lol`
`17:50.55`	`Chikorita`	`he iz doin good 2`
`17:50.59`	`Chikorita`	`yay`
`17:51.01`	`Chikorita`	`heehe`
`17:51.17`	`daBomb`	`hmmm. when i left ive got 61 :)`
`17:51.40`	`Chikorita`	`o yea ...`
`17:51.45`	`Chikorita`	`wen i left i had a umm...`
`17:51.53`	`Chikorita`	`+128993263832827`
`17:51.55`	`Chikorita`	`:)`
`17:51.57`	`Chikorita`	`heehe`
`17:52.07`	`Chikorita`	`j/k`
`17:52.22`	`daBomb`	`lol.its ffff01020330 in hexadecimal system`
`17:52.32`	`daBomb`	`or not :)`
`17:52.57`	`daBomb`	`uh`
`17:53.34`	`daBomb`	`gotta work`
`17:53.44`	`*** part/#bzflag daBomb (dalskdjald@215-bem-10.acn.waw.pl)`
`17:57.09`	`Chikorita`	`LoL mayhem called mee a pepsiholic`
`17:57.27`	`Chikorita`	`jus cuz i keep a can of pepsi on my nitestand`
`17:57.39`	`prot-work`	`that is a little weird`
`17:57.40`	`learner`	`heheh..`
`17:57.44`	`learner`	`pepsiholic`
`17:57.50`	`Chikorita`	`:P`
`17:58.28`	`JBDiGriz`	`learner: I found the directory bug`
`17:58.30`	`Chikorita`	`i called him a teaholic`
`17:58.34`	`Chikorita`	`heehe`
`17:58.40`	`learner`	`JB: great`
`17:59.09`	`JBDiGriz`	`The directory is now stored in bzdb which doesn't understand that the mac is a little different.`
`17:59.28`	`learner`	`AH..`
`17:59.52`	`JBDiGriz`	`If it's not set in bzdb, it looks in ./data`
`18:00.22`	`learner`	`so you had it look in ../../data?`
`18:00.38`	`learner`	`or whereever Resources is`
`18:01.05`	`JBDiGriz`	`I haven't changed it yet. I'm not sure how I want to break it yet. I'd like it to use the absolute pathname which is generated by the mac platform code.`
`18:02.00`	`learner`	`and it'll need to work still, if build using make..`
`18:02.25`	`JBDiGriz`	`That was a red herring. Your make build won't work if you change to a different directory.`
`18:06.27`	`learner`	`wow, is today a whole day of first wave on scifi?`
`18:10.56`	`*** join/#bzflag sussi (Ralf@217-68-182-166.cable.primacom.net)`
`18:12.01`	`*** join/#bzflag Noodleman (~tuckerm@bc183148.bendcable.com)`
`18:12.22`	`Chikorita`	`~sci fi du jour`
`18:12.40`	`Chikorita`	`~sci-fi du jour`
`18:12.41`		`There seems to be a ionized flux tachyon reflection field in engineering, ensign kirk`
`18:12.46`	`Chikorita`	`heehe`
`18:16.47`	`*** join/#bzflag larsl_56k (~larsl@md4690ab2.utfors.se)`
`18:25.04`	`Chikorita`	`gtg`
`18:25.26`	`*** join/#bzflag learner (sean@chr160dhcp1675.chrchv01.md.comcast.net)`
`18:25.35`	`learner`	`oops.. was wondering where my irc window went`
`18:26.10`	`bzgirl`	`bzgirl.bzflag.org:6000 my fps destructor map works :)`
`18:26.22`	`learner`	`1.7 or 1.9`
`18:26.26`	`bzgirl`	`1.7`
`18:27.36`	`TimRiker`	`~bzflist xmission.bzflag.org:5156`
`18:27.45`	`TimRiker`	`~bzfquery xmission.bzflag.org:5156`
`18:28.41`	`learner`	`heh, can't get in`
`18:28.46`	`learner`	`now it crashes on me`
`18:28.49`	`*** join/#bzflag Michaelh (Mouse@171-132.dynamic.visi.com)`
`18:29.01`	`bzgirl`	`it takes awhile to load`
`18:29.24`	`learner`	`it said "unable to download database" the first few times.. then it crashed on me :)`
`18:30.13`	`TimRiker`	`~bzfquery xmission.bzflag.org:5155`
`18:33.20`	`TimRiker`	`~bzfquery xmission.bzflag.org:5155`
`18:33.26`	`TimRiker`	`~bzfquery xmission.bzflag.org:5155`
`18:37.06`	`JBDiGriz`	`learner: If I set the directory in the BZDB database, it works. As soon as captain_proton appears, I'll doublecheck the fix with him, and check it in tonight. The make build should work correctly as well.`
`18:38.20`	`learner`	`aw, you could just commit like everyone else and run off :)`
`18:39.12`	`JBDiGriz`	`I'll change my sf login to diablo before I do that :{)`
`18:39.51`	`Mayhem`	`No wonder it took ages to load that map, at 49874 bytes it takes nearly 200 tcp packets`
`18:40.23`	`learner`	`that's skill too long`
`18:40.28`	`learner`	`s/k/t`
`18:40.44`	`*** join/#bzflag Michaelh (Mouse@172-82.dynamic.visi.com)`
`18:40.54`	`bzgirl`	`Mayhem: but it was worth the wait :)`
`18:41.04`	`Mayhem`	`I think the getworld part is still very inefficient`
`18:41.16`	`Mayhem`	`bzgirl: hmm, maybe. Just to see it was fun :)`
`18:41.17`	`patlabor221`	`is there a limit to TCP packet size?`
`18:41.37`	`bzgirl`	`im going to remove every other box`
`18:41.41`	`bryjen`	`ethernet MTU ~ 1500 btyes i believe`
`18:41.43`	`learner`	`girl, that's a great map if it can be made playable :)`
`18:41.45`	`Mayhem`	`patlabor221: depends on what the MTU is between the hosts, generally 1500bytes gets through`
`18:41.59`	`bzgirl`	`bring it down to 800 objects`
`18:42.08`	`patlabor221`	`ahhh`
`18:42.10`	`JBDiGriz`	`TCP will fragment larger packets, but I think there's a max size in the RFC`
`18:42.35`	`Mayhem`	`until a few days ago bzflag would only send 256 bytes of world data at a time`
`18:43.00`	`Mayhem`	`now it sends ~1000`
`18:43.11`	`Michaelh`	`woohoo`
`18:43.11`	`JBDiGriz`	`Does it ack every packet?`
`18:43.22`	`Mayhem`	`JBDiGriz: pretty much`
`18:43.25`	`JBDiGriz`	`before sending the next one.`
`18:43.37`	`Mayhem`	`it uses the usual tcp sliding-window stuff`
`18:44.18`	`JBDiGriz`	`Then it should be streaming the packets and letting the stack deal with problems.`
`18:44.33`	`learner`	`girl, how many objects was that?`
`18:45.49`	`Mayhem`	`JBDiGriz: yes, that would be better. It waits for the next chunk to be requested before it sends the next packet.`
`18:46.05`	`bzgirl`	`learner 1687`
`18:49.28`	`Mayhem`	`hehehe - "While Mother Nature doesn't publish source, she winks benignly at all those physicists who spend all their time reverse engineering."`
`18:52.29`	`*** join/#bzflag sussudio (Suss@81.68.132.217)`
`18:54.16`	`sussudio`	`~d`
`18:58.14`	`*** join/#bzflag creeperz (~creeperz@host-11-76-220-24.midco.net)`
`18:58.24`	`*** part/#bzflag creeperz (~creeperz@host-11-76-220-24.midco.net)`
`19:06.27`	`*** join/#bzflag fiberchunks (~frobozzpf@237.14.252.64.snet.net)`
`19:07.34`	`fiberchunks`	`allo`
`19:07.40`	`bzgirl`	`hi fiberchunks`
`19:07.46`	`learner`	`howdy, fiber`
`19:07.51`	`learner`	`how'd the midyear review go?`
`19:09.32`	`fiberchunks`	`oh, swimmingly -- they gave me the usual shitty raise`
`19:10.07`	`learner`	`grrr`
`19:10.14`	`prot-work`	`yay for making the protocol more efficient`
`19:11.03`	`learner`	`sry to hear that, fiber`
`19:11.12`	`fiberchunks`	`learner> hehe, they say my communication needs work, and that I need to stop bashing management ;)`
`19:11.28`	`fiberchunks`	`of course, this coming from a manager`
`19:11.44`	`prot-work`	`at least you got a raise`
`19:11.56`	`larsl_56k`	`I hope you bashed him.`
`19:12.04`	`fiberchunks`	`learner> ah, thx, but it doesn't matter -- I expect that being as vocal as I am about stupidity with regards to my job`
`19:12.14`	`learner`	`bashed with a red swingline would be ideal`
`19:12.18`	`fiberchunks`	`larsl_56k> as a matter of fact, he's one of the ones I bash quite often`
`19:12.19`	`fiberchunks`	`:)`
`19:12.32`	`fiberchunks`	`prot-work> true enough -- I could be unemployed right now`
`19:13.25`	`learner`	`ehehehehhe`
`19:13.42`	`fiberchunks`	`what a great flick that is`
`19:14.09`	`fiberchunks`	`there are many, many times I have the feeling of the main character ;)`
`19:14.48`	`fiberchunks`	`'looks like somebody has a case of the mondays!'`
`19:14.48`	`learner`	`um.. you filed that incorrectly`
`19:14.55`	`learner`	`did you get the memo?`
`19:15.24`	`fiberchunks`	`um...yeah...prot...did you get the memo about the TPS reports? Um....yeah...so if you could just file those TPS reports properly`
`19:15.39`	`learner`	`because we're now filing all TPS reports differently now`
`19:15.41`	`fiberchunks`	`lol`
`19:16.01`	`fiberchunks`	`heh, someone should re-draft the protocol document in 'office-space speak'`
`19:16.02`	`learner`	`that would greeeeeat`
`19:16.26`	`fiberchunks`	`change every instance of 'protocol' to TPS`
`19:16.46`	`learner`	`heh heh`
`19:17.15`	`fiberchunks`	`I've been meaning to take a cordless drill with me to work and unscrew some cube walls, actually -- I may do that next week ;)`
`19:17.37`	`learner`	`just as long as you go fishing too :)`
`19:17.54`	`fiberchunks`	`heh, gutting and tetris --not now lumbergh, I'm busy!`
`19:18.24`	`fiberchunks`	`was that derived from a book, a cartoon, or what?`
`19:19.04`	`fiberchunks`	`urm, schmegma in my beer! :\`
`19:19.47`	`learner`	`ok I do`
`19:19.51`	`learner`	`~dict shmegma`
`19:20.11`	`*** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@63.147.94.145)`
`19:20.21`	`fiberchunks`	`~dict schmegma`
`19:20.40`	`fiberchunks`	`yay!`
`19:20.47`	`learner`	`~google for schmegma`
`19:21.41`	`fiberchunks`	`argh, mozillafirebird keeps crashin`
`19:22.57`	`learner`	`heheh, fiber aren't you supposed to be at work?`
`19:23.04`	`fiberchunks`	`technically, I am :)`
`19:23.14`	`learner`	`yet you have a beer :)`
`19:23.17`	`fiberchunks`	`I've got a doc open and reading at this moment, from home ;)`
`19:23.24`	`learner`	`ah, hehehe`
`19:23.39`	`prot-work`	`thats cheating`
`19:23.51`	`fiberchunks`	`nono, that's 'telecommuting' :)`
`19:24.32`	`prot-work`	`its like real commuting, except you don't have to get dressed, and you can drink!`
`19:24.50`	`fiberchunks`	`precisely -- had to get dressed today though -- for my performance review`
`19:25.27`	`fiberchunks`	`lol`
`19:25.42`	`fiberchunks`	`scary mental image, no?`
`19:26.01`	`prot-work`	`quite`
`19:26.37`	`learner`	`boxers?`
`19:26.43`	`learner`	`I doubt it`
`19:26.48`	`fiberchunks`	`why?`
`19:27.57`	`prot-work`	`coed naked PYTHON!`
`19:28.01`	`prot-work`	`ahem`
`19:28.03`	`learner`	`now thats a scary mental image`
`19:28.13`	`fiberchunks`	`hah -- if I were a coder (or even a pseudo-coder) that might be true -- that, mountain dew, and old pizza -- but I'm just a technical review weenie`
`19:28.35`	`fiberchunks`	`so I must remain dressed ... no uber-l337 nude coding for me :(`
`19:28.44`	`sussudio`	`thank god.`
`19:28.51`	`fiberchunks`	`that too`
`19:29.27`	`fiberchunks`	`prot-work> is sfsnap snapping today?`
`19:29.41`	`learner`	`yea, cap, or should I set something up?`
`19:31.45`	`fiberchunks`	`big fireworks show where I live tomorrow -- anyone in the area is more than welcome to drop by :)`
`19:32.05`	`Chestal`	`I'd be happy to drop in if you pay the flight`
`19:32.17`	`fiberchunks`	`from germany? that's a bit much :)`
`19:32.33`	`prot-work`	`erg, mind blank here`
`19:32.41`	`prot-work`	`how to tell how many arguments a script is given? (bash)`
`19:32.51`	`bryjen`	`$#`
`19:37.04`	`learner`	`yay, the sun came out`
`19:37.46`	`learner`	`$* for all the args after $0`
`19:40.14`	`fiberchunks`	`learner> can you repost that link for source goodness, please?`
`19:40.56`	`learner`	`http://homepage.mac.com/brlcad/bzflag/bzflag.tar.gz`
`19:41.01`	`fiberchunks`	`thx`
`19:41.05`	`learner`	`np`
`19:43.24`	`fiberchunks`	`there is an error in configure, by the way, on line 2654`
`19:44.17`	`fiberchunks`	`random character C`
`19:45.25`	`sussudio`	`don't you make the configure yourself by running autogen.sh?`
`19:46.03`	`fiberchunks`	`well, I run ./autogen.sh, and ./configure gripes about 2654 C: no such command`
`19:46.24`	`sussudio`	`:-\|`
`19:46.24`	`fiberchunks`	`and lo and behold on line 2654, there is a C on a line by it's lonesome -- wanting to be purged`
`19:46.25`	`learner`	`can you post your configure? I can't find a C in mine`
`19:46.31`	`fiberchunks`	`learner -- one sec`
`19:46.50`	`fiberchunks`	`fi`
`19:46.51`	`fiberchunks`	`<PROTECTED>`
`19:46.51`	`fiberchunks`	`fi`
`19:46.51`	`fiberchunks`	`C`
`19:46.55`	`fiberchunks`	`ac_`
`19:46.57`	`fiberchunks`	`that's around 2654`
`19:47.12`	`learner`	`but.. where in the file? we have different configs`
`19:47.19`	`learner`	`what else is near?`
`19:47.25`	`learner`	`ac_...`
`19:47.26`	`fiberchunks`	`hehe, good point`
`19:47.54`	`fiberchunks`	`before this: ac_cv_search_glBegin=no`
`19:47.54`	`fiberchunks`	`ac_cv_search_gluScaleImage=no`
`19:47.54`	`fiberchunks`	`ac_func_search_save_LIBS=$LIBS`
`19:48.12`	`learner`	`hrm.`
`19:48.53`	`fiberchunks`	`well, good, that timekeeper thing must've resolved itself :\`
`19:50.29`	`learner`	`odd.. that's right where AC_LANG(C++) is supposed to be`
`19:50.54`	`fiberchunks`	`well, somethings getting chunkered off :(`
`19:52.50`	`fiberchunks`	`wow, 550 seconds for bad flag drop eh learner :)`
`19:54.32`	`fiberchunks`	`wait a second -- learner, have you changed maps?`
`19:54.45`	`learner`	`fiber, there are two server`
`19:54.46`	`learner`	`s`
`19:54.52`	`JBDiGriz`	`prot-work: It seems that you assume the default location for data is the directory "data".`
`19:55.04`	`learner`	`join yours :)`
`19:55.10`	`fiberchunks`	`ah, ic`
`19:55.15`	`learner`	`yay, jb gets to commit :)`
`19:55.32`	`learner`	`fiber, testing an object-intensive server`
`19:55.48`	`fiberchunks`	`learner -- well -- is the bad flag time on gerbil layer really set that high?`
`19:55.55`	`learner`	`some bad settings apparently -- I grabbed a bad flag and it said there was 5150 seconds to drop...`
`19:56.00`	`fiberchunks`	`ha! s/layer/lair`
`19:56.06`	`fiberchunks`	`fancy`
`19:56.14`	`fiberchunks`	`good thing shooting drops a flag :)`
`19:56.18`	`learner`	`actually, I think it might be a bug, lemme check what's set`
`19:56.54`	`prot-work`	`the shoot-drop thing should have been fixed`
`19:57.01`	`learner`	`yep. I never set it.`
`19:57.12`	`fiberchunks`	`it taint, at least with the source I just grabbed from learner`
`19:57.17`	`learner`	`so something else is screwy`
`19:57.18`	`fiberchunks`	`the date / time of which I am unsure`
`19:57.32`	`learner`	`it's latest cvs`
`19:57.38`	`fiberchunks`	`then it's not fixed`
`19:57.53`	`prot-work`	`how up-to-date is the server?`
`19:58.01`	`learner`	`latest server.. :)`
`19:58.37`	`learner`	`well.. 11 am today (4 hours ago)`
`19:58.50`	`fiberchunks`	`5 :)`
`19:59.05`	`learner`	`but then there have been no commits since then`
`19:59.06`	`Mayhem`	`~google for pant pant fresh commits`
`19:59.31`	`fiberchunks`	`lol, AVN shows up :)`
`19:59.42`	`*** join/#bzflag mmu_man (~revol@ALyon-209-1-4-81.w217-128.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`20:00.18`	`JBDiGriz`	`prot-work: Does the bzdb directory entry ever get saved?`
`20:01.29`	`learner`	`cap, just tested and it's still busted`
`20:02.18`	`fiberchunks`	`also, I notice that even though I have a .bzflag19 and .bzflag in ~ -- my config settings were not loaded -- and the initial textures were not loaded either (the textures, were loaded upon quit and restart, however)`
`20:02.22`	`prot-work`	`JBDiGriz: mebbe`
`20:02.37`	`prot-work`	`the config file loading is not bullet-proof right now`
`20:02.48`	`fiberchunks`	`didn't think so, just letting you know`
`20:03.25`	`JBDiGriz`	`prot-work: That's what I was afraid of. It seems to ignore the platform dependent media directory entry right now.`
`20:04.38`	`JBDiGriz`	`Can we just decide that it never gets saved, and always has to be set, otherwise things will be broken?`
`20:05.09`	`fiberchunks`	`'connection failed: couldn't make inter-player connection' << error when trying to connect to learners server (second time now)`
`20:05.16`	`learner`	`Mmmmm.. dairy queen is running commercials about the blizard again -- I could go for a blizzard`
`20:05.38`	`bryjen`	`learner: i was able to hold a L flag, which appeared to be shot-limited`
`20:05.44`	`fiberchunks`	`seg fault: #0 0x4060dcb9 in __nvsym07667 () from /usr/lib/libGLcore.so.1`
`20:05.44`	`fiberchunks`	`#1 0x00000004 in ?? ()`
`20:06.35`	`prot-work`	`recompile with deb`
`20:06.38`	`prot-work`	`debug*`
`20:06.54`	`fiberchunks`	`it is compiled with debug :\`
`20:07.00`	`fiberchunks`	`that's all I got on a backtrack`
`20:07.04`	`fiberchunks`	`backtrace, even`
`20:07.18`	`prot-work`	`seems to be an error in the nvidia libs`
`20:07.22`	`prot-work`	`using the latest drivers?`
`20:07.26`	`fiberchunks`	`yessir`
`20:07.40`	`fiberchunks`	`probably just some spurious voodoo -- restarted, and worked fine`
`20:08.50`	`fiberchunks`	`learner> it seems that every time I try to connect to the gerbil lair server, the first attempt gives me that 'connection failed:' error, and the second time works dandy -- this doesn't happen on the 'bunny hunt' server fyi`
`20:10.33`	`fiberchunks`	`xmission has the ridiculously long bad-flag time as well`
`20:10.34`	`CIA`	`03brlcad * 12bzflag/ (configure.in): subtle insignificant case typo`
`20:11.31`	`fiberchunks`	`ducati and xmission do _not_ suffer from the 'drop flag on shot' bug`
`20:12.00`	`learner`	`interesting`
`20:12.31`	`learner`	`I'll perform a complete rebuild just to be sure`
`20:13.18`	`learner`	`what will clear out the .dep dirs?`
`20:14.30`	`prot-work`	`erk`
`20:14.38`	`bryjen`	`xmission had a huge shake time, but I'm not dropping flags when I shoot`
`20:14.45`	`prot-work`	`the pyopengl bindings for irix default to using the o32 libdir`
`20:15.15`	`fiberchunks`	`where is this python voodoo I keep seeing mentioned? I see it not in my source files?`
`20:15.46`	`learner`	`fiber, it's a different cvs module`
`20:15.51`	`learner`	`pybzflag`
`20:15.56`	`fiberchunks`	`ah -- ic`
`20:16.42`	`fiberchunks`	`there any possibility prot-work, of granting some poor twit a cvs account on a read-only basis? I have no desire to commit anything, but anon-cvs suX0rs (as you know)`
`20:17.59`	`bryjen`	`learner: is your Rabbit Chase up?`
`20:18.20`	`learner`	`no`
`20:18.23`	`learner`	`rebuilding`
`20:20.31`	`learner`	`anyone know how sourceforge calculates "activity" for the top active projects?`
`20:20.59`	`sussudio`	`pagecounts? :-P`
`20:21.03`	`fiberchunks`	`prob by commits?`
`20:22.49`	`learner`	`ok, servers are rebuilt fresh`
`20:22.55`	`fiberchunks`	`yay`
`20:23.02`	`bryjen`	`hmmm. the flipz/negative z stuff breaks maps with existing -z pyramids`
`20:23.56`	`sussudio`	`learner: those are not mints.`
`20:23.58`	`prot-work`	`it shouldn't anymore`
`20:25.30`	`bryjen`	`upside down pyramids on xmission look like they're a bit to far up.`
`20:25.33`	`learner`	`so was it the same, fiber?`
`20:25.37`	`fiberchunks`	`learner> same action -- 1 shot drop flag, unless the flag happens to have a shot limit attached to it`
`20:25.55`	`learner`	`dat's what I thought`
`20:25.58`	`fiberchunks`	`i.e. laser on gerbil lair`
`20:26.20`	`fiberchunks`	`so who's code is more recent? yours or xmission / ducati?`
`20:26.38`	`fiberchunks`	`ha, s/who's/whose`
`20:27.35`	`learner`	`mine is most recent :)`
`20:28.20`	`fiberchunks`	`you are ... da man ;)`
`20:28.43`	`bryjen`	`Did the -z pyramids used to hang down from their z position, and now the - activates flipz, but the apex of the upsidedown pyramid is /at/ the z position?`
`20:28.59`	`learner`	`wif .. da broken servers ;)`
`20:30.28`	`fiberchunks`	`those guys are mutants ;)`
`20:31.14`	`prot-work`	`yay for having 4 processors`
`20:31.57`	`learner`	`bah, I could take 'em down`
`20:32.06`	`learner`	`with a big gun :)`
`20:32.32`	`learner`	`4 cap? octane or zeon?`
`20:32.55`	`learner`	`or better? :)`
`20:32.55`	`prot-work`	`MIPS`
`20:33.04`	`learner`	`coo`
`20:33.04`	`prot-work`	`only r10k`
`20:33.07`	`prot-work`	`but still...`
`20:33.07`	`learner`	`aw`
`20:33.25`	`bryjen`	`cap's machine is a mutant. /The PC with four brains/ hehe`
`20:33.35`	`prot-work`	`PC? who said anything about PC?`
`20:33.35`	`prot-work`	`;)`
`20:33.42`	`bryjen`	`Whoops. MIPS`
`20:33.46`	`fiberchunks`	`prot-work> any opinion on my above question?`
`20:34.19`	`learner`	`he was avoiding it :)`
`20:34.20`	`bryjen`	`Hmmm, yeah. I do remember smelling something about Irix from your direction earlier ;0`
`20:35.07`	`prot-work`	`fiberchunks: you'd have to ask tim, but i'd prefer not to give out full cvs accounts - if one person gets one, everyone will want one, and we can't have read-write accounts floating around all over :P`
`20:35.35`	`JBDiGriz`	`prot-work is avoiding questions today. He probably has real work to do. :-P`
`20:35.54`	`fiberchunks`	`there is no way to give out a read-only account? I suppose that is the function of anon cvs though :\`
`20:36.36`	`learner`	`if cap's snap was working, he could just snap pybzflag too..`
`20:36.59`	`fiberchunks`	`yes, but that's a hassle, and shouldn't have to be done due to hosting issues :\`
`20:38.03`	`fiberchunks`	`s/due to/as a result of`
`20:38.43`	`JBDiGriz`	`We used to mirror using ftp, fugly but it worked.`
`20:38.59`	`bryjen`	`rsync?`
`20:39.36`	`patlabor221`	`what cvs you gonna mirror?`
`20:42.05`	`fiberchunks`	`prot-work> I entirely understand your point of view -- no worries :)`
`20:42.51`	`learner`	`old client, jb`
`20:42.55`	`fiberchunks`	`1500 lbs? pansies :)`
`20:43.20`	`learner`	`I jest, but it was more than 600`
`20:43.26`	`JBDiGriz`	`learner: right, from last night and compiled with my changes today.`
`20:43.57`	`*** join/#bzflag creeperz (~creeperz@host-11-76-220-24.midco.net)`
`20:44.04`	`*** part/#bzflag creeperz (~creeperz@host-11-76-220-24.midco.net)`
`20:44.14`	`sussudio`	`learner: 3 dollah`
`20:44.29`	`learner`	`hmm?`
`20:49.30`	`learner`	`damn`
`20:49.41`	`learner`	`sf won't allow scp`
`20:50.51`	`fiberchunks`	`what about wget -r http://blahblahblah or curl`
`20:51.20`	`learner`	`damn again.. it was 1500lbs squats.. they're benching >650 lbs`
`20:51.33`	`learner`	`there's no url to curl`
`20:51.50`	`fiberchunks`	`heh -- you're a poet and don't even know it ;)`
`20:51.50`	`learner`	`I needed access to the cvs files in order to mirror`
`20:52.09`	`fiberchunks`	`oh right`
`20:52.30`	`learner`	`oh well`
`20:55.54`	`learner`	`http://brlcad.org/tmp/pybzflag-Jul11-1653.tar.gz`
`21:01.20`	`scanline`	`hm? what's this?`
`21:02.41`	`fiberchunks`	`learner was kind enough to tar.gz up pybzflag for those of us deprived of decent cvs access`
`21:02.46`	`scanline`	`oh, cute`
`21:02.47`	`fiberchunks`	`i.e. me :)`
`21:02.59`	`JBDiGriz`	`fiberchunks: Have you ever been to the Willimantec brewery?`
`21:03.02`	`scanline`	`should probably modify sfsnap to do all CVS modules`
`21:03.09`	`fiberchunks`	`no sir, I haven't`
`21:03.12`	`learner`	`yes. I am cute. thank you, thank you.`
`21:03.19`	`scanline`	`=)`
`21:03.22`	`fiberchunks`	`there was one in Mystic for a while -- but it disappeared`
`21:03.42`	`learner`	`cap's snap snapped`
`21:03.50`	`fiberchunks`	`not from that picture you're not :)`
`21:04.07`	`fiberchunks`	`kinda goofy though ;)`
`21:04.39`	`learner`	`what? what pic?`
`21:04.47`	`learner`	`ooooh... hehehe`
`21:04.49`	`learner`	`nvr mind`
`21:05.22`	`learner`	`goofy? you can't tell that from that picture.. :)`
`21:05.42`	`learner`	`you could probably tell by how much I'm on-line, but not from the picture`
`21:05.44`	`fiberchunks`	`you like quite small though -- I thought you'd be out of diapers by now :)`
`21:06.06`	`learner`	`hehe, typing was a "feat"`
`21:06.26`	`JBDiGriz`	`it's easier if you use your fingers, not your feet.`
`21:06.49`	`fiberchunks`	`how old is your {son,daughter}, btw`
`21:07.00`	`learner`	`heh, he's my nephew`
`21:07.06`	`fiberchunks`	`ah -- :)`
`21:07.17`	`JBDiGriz`	`learner's a youngster`
`21:07.21`	`sussudio`	`how do you start pybzflag?`
`21:07.34`	`learner`	`he was < 1 in the picture, he's almost 2 now`
`21:08.00`	`scanline`	`sussudio: pybzflag is just a set of modules, you don't start it... there are example programs in the pybzflag directory that you can start`
`21:08.16`	`fiberchunks`	`cool -- got me a couple of them there nephews (10 and 6 respectively)`
`21:08.31`	`learner`	`:)`
`21:08.37`	`JBDiGriz`	`Finally finished compiling, ibooks aren't as fast as quicksilvers`
`21:08.38`	`fiberchunks`	`and one 5 year old kid (not biological, but he might as well be) :)`
`21:08.59`	`learner`	`heh`
`21:10.28`	`learner`	`callate, ibot`
`21:10.51`	`*** join/#bzflag bzdoug (~Joe@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net)`
`21:13.04`	`*** join/#bzflag doughecka (~Joe@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net)`
`21:13.12`	`JBDiGriz`	`learner: happier with that client?`
`21:13.33`	`learner`	`ah, yes.. much better`
`21:14.30`	`JBDiGriz`	`also pb build, the app works. I'm assuming that we're not saving the directory, and it will be someone else's problem to fix if he ever tries to!`
`21:15.12`	`learner`	`I like it when it's someone else's problem`
`21:15.48`	`learner`	`unless .. if someone else is me ...`
`21:16.01`	`JBDiGriz`	`could be :-P`
`21:16.27`	`JBDiGriz`	`you don't tend to muck around the bzdb though.`
`21:18.57`	`CIA`	`03davidtrowbridge * 12bzflag/ (BUGS): add a bug`
`21:19.15`	`fiberchunks`	`right on :)`
`21:19.21`	`JBDiGriz`	`You can use that commit message over and over again!`
`21:19.31`	`fiberchunks`	`lol`
`21:21.11`	`fiberchunks`	`uh oh, I sense a patlabor is near`
`21:21.34`	`patlabor221`	`your powers have grown weak old man.`
`21:21.34`	`bzgirl`	`you can sense him?`
`21:21.41`	`fiberchunks`	`heh`
`21:21.50`	`prot-work`	`hrm, odd`
`21:22.00`	`prot-work`	`its as if sfsnap never recieved the email`
`21:22.07`	`prot-work`	`learner: did you get an email from that commit?`
`21:22.20`	`learner`	`lol, pat`
`21:22.29`	`JBDiGriz`	`patlabor221: does that mean you give jedi massages? :{)`
`21:22.45`	`learner`	`negative, cap`
`21:22.47`	`patlabor221`	`only to female jedi`
`21:22.57`	`prot-work`	`patlabor221: >:P`
`21:23.10`	`learner`	`Mmmm... wine .. merlot`
`21:23.28`	`bzgirl`	`the newest bzedit dosent work in wine`
`21:23.32`	`fiberchunks`	`mmm... beer .. amstel light`
`21:23.39`	`fiberchunks`	`:)`
`21:23.48`	`sussudio`	`distrubance? is that like a distributed disturbance? a beowulf cluster of disturbing things?`
`21:23.48`	`sussudio`	`jeda?`
`21:24.01`	`doughecka`	`patlabor221: I saw an asgard tatoo shop today :)`
`21:24.10`	`patlabor221`	`heh`
`21:24.12`	`JBDiGriz`	`Mmmm... real beer ... Pale Ale ... Bitter`
`21:24.16`	`prot-work`	`it makes me feel so warm and fuzzy that people want bzedit in wine`
`21:24.40`	`patlabor221`	`well the native one don't work`
`21:24.45`	`learner`	`considering you wrote the linux one .. :)`
`21:24.52`	`fiberchunks`	`:(`
`21:25.21`	`fiberchunks`	`<patlabor221> well the native one don't work`
`21:25.27`	`patlabor221`	`only you can get it to compile cap`
`21:25.49`	`patlabor221`	`tho this new feature would let you go python nutz`
`21:25.57`	`prot-work`	`new feature?`
`21:26.06`	`prot-work`	`hmm`
`21:26.11`	`patlabor221`	`plugins`
`21:26.22`	`prot-work`	`and make it work on windows at the same time ;)`
`21:26.25`	`patlabor221`	`there ya go`
`21:26.32`	`fiberchunks`	`that would be uber-cool :)`
`21:27.15`	`bzgirl`	`prot-work: ive installed ever gtklarea package i can find for Debian but cant compile bzedit`
`21:27.38`	`fiberchunks`	`ditto that sentiment`
`21:27.42`	`prot-work`	`bzgirl: try building gtkglarea from the sources on ftp.gnome.org - debian's package seems quite messed up`
`21:28.09`	`bzgirl`	`ok`
`21:28.12`	`fiberchunks`	`prot-work> you didn't happen to contribute an ebuild for lin-bzedit did ya?`
`21:28.49`	`prot-work`	`fiberchunks: tvon made one at one point`
`21:29.06`	`prot-work`	`patlabor221: huh? it works fine, so long as you've got a sane installation`
`21:29.11`	`fiberchunks`	`prot-work> it has, apparently, since been removed from the tree (if it was ever committed)`
`21:29.12`	`bryjen`	`http://www.student.oulu.fi/~jlof/gtkglarea/ <-- Is GtkGLarea dead?`
`21:29.14`	`prot-work`	`debian doesn't include pkg-config files for gtkglarea :P`
`21:29.22`	`prot-work`	`fiberchunks: it was never in portage`
`21:29.26`	`fiberchunks`	`ah`
`21:29.27`	`patlabor221`	`well everyone knows that the world is insane :)`
`21:30.00`	`patlabor221`	`tho the way I did mine was totaly ugly, I see that now`
`21:30.01`	`prot-work`	`bryjen: eh - sorta`
`21:30.03`	`prot-work`	`gtkglarea is "done"`
`21:32.37`	`learner`	`cap, eek`
`21:32.58`	`learner`	`something wrong with the hook script?`
`21:33.15`	`learner`	`or maybe they turned off mail..`
`21:33.43`	`prot-work`	`i dunno`
`21:33.46`	`prot-work`	`mails to cia still go out`
`21:33.54`	`prot-work`	`and nothing in the script changed since the last time it was working`
`21:33.55`	`learner`	`odd`
`21:34.06`	`prot-work`	`quite`
`21:35.01`	`doughecka`	`patlabor221: http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/megatokyo/5aef/`
`21:36.03`	`patlabor221`	`yes that is the new one`
`21:36.05`	`patlabor221`	`I have the old one`
`21:36.11`	`doughecka`	`ah`
`21:38.57`	`bryjen`	`anybody got an URL for the latest bzedit (for linux) ?`
`21:39.19`	`sussudio`	`~bzedit`
`21:39.20`		`somebody said bzedit was http://jupiter.babylonia.flatirons.org/code/bzedit-2.1.tar.gz on linux http://www.artemisgames.com/bzedit for windows`
`21:39.38`	`bryjen`	`ah. ibot being usefull. who woulda thunk`
`21:40.08`	`doughecka`	`~usefull`
`21:40.20`	`sussudio`	`~sud`
`21:40.22`		`shut up doug`
`21:40.47`	`sussudio`	`~botsnack`
`21:40.47`		`sussudio: thanks`
`21:50.42`	`learner`	`ibot, eat x11 for learner`
`21:50.44`		`ACTION eats x11 for learner and falls over dead`
`21:50.50`	`fiberchunks`	`hrmph, wine / bzedit doesn't work either -- but linux bzedit compiles -- just some goofiness with it`
`21:50.50`	`learner`	`thank you`
`21:55.16`	`fiberchunks`	`such sweet sorrow -- compiling mozfirebird is a tiring process`
`21:55.49`	`fiberchunks`	`compile worked fine for me, the app has much goofiness though`
`21:56.23`	`fiberchunks`	`i.e. grid doesn't display, duplicating an object turns both white (and hence you can't see them) -- any words of wisdom cappy?`
`21:56.31`	`*** join/#bzflag TerryC (~creeperz@host-11-76-220-24.midco.net)`
`21:58.20`	`bryjen`	heh. Trying to complie bzedit, I get /usr/include/libintl.h:40: parse error before `__const'
`21:59.55`	`sussudio`	`Mayhem: about 35mb's worth`
`22:00.01`	`TerryC`	`Ok, I have Linux, and I want to install BZEdit using WINE, what do I use as the install dir?`
`22:00.19`	`Mayhem`	`bryjen: I get exactly the same`
`22:00.41`	`bryjen`	`Mayhem: gcc version?`
`22:00.56`	`Mayhem`	`gcc version 3.3.1 20030626 (Debian prerelease)`
`22:00.58`	`fiberchunks`	`btw, I am using gcc 3.2.3 if that help`
`22:00.59`	`fiberchunks`	`s`
`22:01.53`	`bzgirl`	`creeperz is wine set up?`
`22:01.59`	`bryjen`	`eh. I'm using 3.2.2`
`22:04.14`	`fiberchunks`	`good ghod - for what?`
`22:04.41`	`bryjen`	`putting bzedit "to sleep" ?`
`22:05.14`	`Mayhem`	`I get the same error with gcc 3.2`
`22:06.15`	`fiberchunks`	`I could flood the hell out of the channel with ldd bzedit on my box, but I won't -- if you want the output, lemme know`
`22:06.34`	`prot-work`	`what freakin error`
`22:06.38`	`doughecka`	`#flood :)`
`22:06.50`	`bzgirl`	`Mayhem: what deb provides the gtklgarea pkg?`
`22:06.54`	`prot-work`	`NO DEB!`
`22:06.59`	`prot-work`	`deb is bad!`
`22:07.05`	`fiberchunks`	/usr/include/libintl.h:40: parse error before `__const' <<< that one they're saying, cap
`22:07.12`	`prot-work`	`ahh, right!`
`22:07.13`	`Mayhem`	`prot-work: you shouldn't be so mean to deb :)`
`22:07.19`	`prot-work`	`you need to hack the header ;-)`
`22:07.34`	`prot-work`	`and i have no clue why`
`22:07.36`	`Mayhem`	`bzgirl: did you get the ./configure to complete?`
`22:07.41`	`bryjen`	`No debs here. GLarea source from gnome ftp.`
`22:08.06`	`bzgirl`	`Mayhem: no, bryjen i got lost in gnome ftp`
`22:08.22`	`prot-work`	`temporarily change __const to const, build bzedit, then go back`
`22:08.33`	`prot-work`	`i think its some broken header dependency in the headers`
`22:08.46`	`Mayhem`	`bzgirl: gtkglarea5-dev 1.2.3-2`
`22:09.16`	`bryjen`	`ftp://ftp.yggdrasil.com/mirrors/site/ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gtkglarea/1.99/gtkglarea-1.99.0.tar.gz`
`22:09.20`	`bryjen`	`whew`
`22:09.24`	`fiberchunks`	`prot-work> is default behavior for bzedit not to see grid lines, and also for the world base to have no green texture? Box duplication causes whiteness of boxes as well`
`22:09.38`	`fiberchunks`	`I toggled grid -- no joy`
`22:09.47`	`prot-work`	`iirc grid is unimplemented ;)`
`22:10.01`	`fiberchunks`	`:)`
`22:10.21`	`fiberchunks`	`also, closing and trying to retoggle the element and list viewers produces no joy :)`
`22:10.35`	`prot-work`	`odd, that part should work`
`22:10.36`	`fiberchunks`	`i.e. they stay closed`
`22:11.24`	`fiberchunks`	`well, compiling against gtk2 may have b0rked thangs -- I ain't sweatin it though`
`22:11.46`	`fiberchunks`	`but it did compile, and does work -- just much glitchiness is all`
`22:11.54`	`prot-work`	`2.1 is designed for gtk2, but its been somewhat unmaintained for a while`
`22:12.06`	`Mayhem`	`extern char gettext (__const char __msgid) __THROW;`
`22:12.12`	`fiberchunks`	`yes, I realize that -- that's another reason I'm not sweatin it :)`
`22:12.15`	`Mayhem`	`what is its problem with that line?`
`22:12.22`	`fiberchunks`	`you've better things to do with your time`
`22:12.33`	`prot-work`	`Mayhem: temporarily change __const to const in libintl.h, build, then change it back`
`22:12.54`	`Mayhem`	`prot-work: I did, same error, but without the __`
`22:13.11`	`prot-work`	`hmm`
`22:13.24`	`prot-work`	`maybe instead of changing __const get rid of __THROW`
`22:13.31`	`scanline`	`doobeedoo.. I think I'll be heading home early`
`22:14.19`	`fiberchunks`	`perhaps that would be a good reason for me to learn about pygtk and python in general, being the code twit that I am :\`
`22:14.27`	`prot-work`	`eh`
`22:14.35`	`prot-work`	`if i do it again, i'll use something a bit more portable than gtk`
`22:14.37`	`Mayhem`	`prot-work: don't worry about it, this is just gonna go round and round`
`22:14.40`	`fiberchunks`	`ah`
`22:14.40`	`prot-work`	`maybe...wxPython`
`22:14.48`	`fiberchunks`	`wxPython? whaz that?`
`22:14.57`	`prot-work`	`wxwindows python bindings`
`22:15.04`	`fiberchunks`	`nifty -- linkage?`
`22:15.09`	`prot-work`	`google.com`
`22:15.10`	`fiberchunks`	`~google for wxpython`
`22:15.13`	`fiberchunks`	`heh`
`22:15.22`	`Mayhem`	`just toooo easy`
`22:15.55`	`fiberchunks`	`highly spiffy`
`22:16.13`	`scanline`	`fiberchunks: hmm, pybzedit?`
`22:16.44`	`scanline`	`that would actually be pretty cool, since pybzflag already has a nice infrastructure for dealing with worlds, and you'd be able to use the same view code in the editor as in the normal client`
`22:17.03`	`scanline`	`so you could play your world as you edit it... or even edit it as it runs on a server =)`
`22:17.04`	`prot-work`	`yeup`
`22:17.11`	`Mayhem`	`captain_proton: gtk is cross-platformish...`
`22:17.12`	`*** join/#bzflag bzgirl (~brat@toronto-hs-64-26-176-100.s-ip.magma.ca)`
`22:17.20`	`prot-work`	`Mayhem: sorta...`
`22:17.34`	`fiberchunks`	`scanline> I will sincerely give you (or whomever) their choice of a case of beer (or any other beverage), excluding uber-expensive wine for developing it`
`22:17.34`	`prot-work`	`Mayhem: however, wx uses gtk as a backend on linux, so its still pretty`
`22:17.34`	`scanline`	`why not just straight opengl + pygame?`
`22:17.35`	`Mayhem`	`wb bzgirl`
`22:17.50`	`bzgirl`	`stupid X locked up :)`
`22:17.51`	`prot-work`	`scanline: because doing widgets in opengl/pygame suck`
`22:17.54`	`scanline`	`fiberchunks: =)`
`22:18.03`	`fiberchunks`	`scanline> so get on it :)`
`22:18.06`	`scanline`	`prot-work: well, what widgets would you need?`
`22:18.16`	`scanline`	`could do sort of a fully-3D truespaceish interface`
`22:18.16`	`bzgirl`	`Mayhem: can you paste that link to the gnome ftp site bryjen showed me?`
`22:18.22`	`prot-work`	`scanline: at least a menu ;)`
`22:18.28`	`scanline`	`anyway, something to ponder on the bus`
`22:18.34`	`scanline`	`I'm going home early now`
`22:18.50`	`scanline`	`learner: what lese am I supposed to call a set of python modules for the bzflag protocol?`
`22:18.53`	`prot-work`	`scanline: depending on various motivations, i may have something started ;-)`
`22:18.56`	`scanline`	`s/lese/else/`
`22:19.03`	`scanline`	`prot-work: hehe`
`22:19.15`	`fiberchunks`	`I would like to learn python -- it seems to suit my personality, but I've no idea where to start -- recommendations, gurus?`
`22:19.18`	`Chestal`	`evening`
`22:19.18`	`scanline`	`so what did I miss today? I get back on here before leaving and people are talking about python`
`22:19.20`	`learner`	`scanline: I mean "apps" or things that end up being run by a user`
`22:19.21`	`prot-work`	`but a fully-3d interface would be damn cool`
`22:19.30`	`scanline`	`learner: oh.. yes, that's very silly`
`22:19.41`	`prot-work`	`yes`
`22:19.51`	`prot-work`	`instead of 'bzedit' it will be 'bzedit.py', not 'pybzedit'`
`22:19.51`	`scanline`	`prot-work: when you have an object selected, all the commands could be in the form of 'handles' attached to the object`
`22:19.59`	`scanline`	`for selecting objects you could have a 3D tree view :)`
`22:20.05`	`fiberchunks`	`ah -- my bad then -- bzedit.py :)`
`22:20.07`	`prot-work`	`3d tree view?`
`22:20.12`	`scanline`	`prot-work: just like I have bzfs.py instead of pybzfs? :)`
`22:20.16`	`prot-work`	`scanline: you must draw me a picture of this 3d tree view`
`22:20.18`	`prot-work`	`scanline: yep`
`22:20.24`	`fiberchunks`	`I suppose that's almost as bad as hungarian notation :)`
`22:20.27`	`scanline`	`prot-work: I'll think about it more on the bus`
`22:20.31`	`prot-work`	`ok`
`22:20.32`	`scanline`	`time to go home for real :)`
`22:20.33`	`scanline`	`bbl`
`22:20.41`	`prot-work`	`ooh`
`22:20.49`	`prot-work`	`a 3d interface would be a neat use for the vizlab`
`22:20.56`	`prot-work`	`because i originally told them i wanted to play with 3d UIs`
`22:21.24`	`prot-work`	`lets see`
`22:21.42`	`prot-work`	`if i can get something nifty working before the 24th, i can maybe take it to their open house`
`22:21.45`	`prot-work`	`and run it in the CAVE`
`22:21.47`	`prot-work`	`=D`
`22:21.54`	`fiberchunks`	`whaz the CAVE?`
`22:22.03`	`prot-work`	`fully-immersive 3d environment`
`22:22.17`	`fiberchunks`	`oooo, spiffy!`
`22:22.21`	`prot-work`	`the lab i have access to has a 60" passive-stereo screen`
`22:22.28`	`fiberchunks`	`~google for CAVE`
`22:22.31`	`prot-work`	`which is pretty neat, but still just peanuts compared to their other equipment`
`22:22.42`	`fiberchunks`	`anyone of those?`
`22:22.45`	`prot-work`	`nope`
`22:24.03`	`prot-work`	`www.fakespace.com/cave.shtml - something like that`
`22:24.23`	`*** part/#bzflag trepan (~trepan@CPE0040f42db082-CM00e06f15f704.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`22:24.51`	`fiberchunks`	`are those 3d reps of the people working on things?`
`22:25.03`	`prot-work`	`those are people inside the cave`
`22:25.08`	`fiberchunks`	`wow -- cool`
`22:25.12`	`prot-work`	`wearing shutter glasses =)`
`22:25.40`	`fiberchunks`	`so they can 'actually' walk around 3d objects and such?`
`22:25.50`	`prot-work`	`yes`
`22:25.58`	`prot-work`	`you can't see anything in between you and another person`
`22:26.01`	`fiberchunks`	`that is neat as hell =)`
`22:26.05`	`prot-work`	`but so long as you're looking at a wall, it appears 3d`
`22:26.22`	`prot-work`	`bzflag in 3d is fun :)`
`22:26.31`	`fiberchunks`	`heh`
`22:26.50`	`fiberchunks`	`being able to hop out of your tank to take a whiz would be _very_ fun :)`
`22:27.39`	`prot-work`	`heh`
`22:31.04`	`fiberchunks`	`bzgirl> in case you didn't get it: ftp://ftp.yggdrasil.com/mirrors/site/ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gtkglarea/1.99/gtkglarea-1.99.0.tar.gz`
`22:31.46`	`bzgirl`	`fiberchunks: yeah i got it now, and it wont compile :)))`
`22:36.00`	`fiberchunks`	`ahh`
`22:36.29`	`learner`	`ahh`
`22:36.34`	`fiberchunks`	`anyone know of a way to take, say 8 IDE drives and make a RAID out of em, using just a single controller?`
`22:36.50`	`fiberchunks`	`does such an animal exist?`
`22:36.57`	`learner`	`sure.. software raid`
`22:37.30`	`*** part/#bzflag TerryC (~creeperz@host-11-76-220-24.midco.net)`
`22:37.49`	`fiberchunks`	`learner> ok, but how do you overcome the 4 IDE devices / controller limitation?`
`22:38.02`	`learner`	`add more controllers`
`22:38.04`	`learner`	`:)`
`22:38.16`	`Mayhem`	`you probably only one 1 device per channel anyway`
`22:38.23`	`fiberchunks`	`you missed my original question didn't you -- Mr. Don't pay attention well ;)`
`22:39.00`	`Mayhem`	`fiberchunks: you can't plug in 8 drives to a single ide controller`
`22:39.13`	`fiberchunks`	`well, I was thinking it would be really kick-ass if I could take, say, 8-10 cheap huge IDE drives and hook em up with one controller -- to share files virginia`
`22:39.34`	`fiberchunks`	`Mayhem> that's what I thought -- I didn't think it was possible with just one controller`
`22:39.35`	`sussudio`	`isnt SATA supposed to do more drives per controller?`
`22:39.39`	`fiberchunks`	`dunno`
`22:41.00`	`fiberchunks`	`firewire does 128 or so (but is expensive), usb does a whole bunch (but is slow), SCSI does 16 (iirc, but is expensive), etc`
`22:41.01`	`*** join/#bzflag larsl_56k (~larsl@md4690fcf.utfors.se)`
`22:41.06`	`fiberchunks`	`sata I am unsure of`
`22:41.07`	`Mayhem`	`fiberchunks: http://anthrax.ds.pg.gda.pl/server/`
`22:41.39`	`*** join/#bzflag patlabor221dead (~jeffm@208.48.199.214)`
`22:42.07`	`sussudio`	`serialata.org is TEH SUX`
`22:42.26`	`fiberchunks`	`Mayhem> that's cool, but where are the controllers?`
`22:43.26`	`Mayhem`	`sussudio: what does 'teh sux' mean. Is that some AOLism :p`
`22:43.27`	`prot-work`	`sata does 1 drive per channel, iirc`
`22:43.38`	`learner`	`fiber, you can find plenty of multi-controller hardware that'll do what you want, but it'll mostly offset the cheap drive cost`
`22:43.42`	`fiberchunks`	`really, I thought it was more`
`22:43.47`	`prot-work`	`nope`
`22:43.56`	`fiberchunks`	`learner> that's what I assumed -- that's too bad :\`
`22:43.56`	`prot-work`	`the big advantage is the longer cables & hot-swappability`
`22:44.09`	`learner`	`promise tech has a 6-channel ata iirc`
`22:44.12`	`fiberchunks`	`longer and smaller, correct -- much smaller`
`22:44.30`	`prot-work`	`highpoint has a nice 4-channel controller (that we'll be putting 2 of in navi at some point)`
`22:44.30`	`learner`	`that's probably your best bang/buck/reliability`
`22:44.31`	`fiberchunks`	`yeah, but is it linux-compatible -- that's the other big issue (for me, anyway`
`22:44.33`	`prot-work`	`hpt404`
`22:44.37`	`learner`	`http://www.promise.com/product/product_detail_eng.asp?productId=84&familyId=7`
`22:45.33`	`fiberchunks`	`I've got a promise fasttrack on this box, that I don't use... I assume that IDE RAID is limited to the same 2 device max / channel limit as well?`
`22:46.01`	`learner`	`probably, but that's 12 drives.. :)`
`22:46.43`	`fiberchunks`	`just curious at this point`
`22:47.18`	`learner`	`well.. 12 x 250 == ~ 3GB`
`22:47.25`	`learner`	`er, TB`
`22:47.43`	`doughecka`	`or gb isf`
`22:47.47`	`doughecka`	`bleh`
`22:47.51`	`fiberchunks`	`one other thing -- all you linux users -- what do you think the best IDE harddrive manufacturer is?`
`22:48.10`	`learner`	`another benefit of promise is that they have linux drivers`
`22:48.16`	`fiberchunks`	`I like maxtor -- but there is some funkiness happening right now with /dev/hdb -- so I'm not sure now`
`22:48.25`	`prot-work`	`fiberchunks: yes`
`22:48.30`	`doughecka`	`at work I have a server pieced together with 5 10000 rpm scsi drives`
`22:48.34`	`fiberchunks`	`prot-work> maxtor?`
`22:48.40`	`Mayhem`	`definitely NOT conner`
`22:48.41`	`prot-work`	`the hardware raid on the hpt404 only does 0+1`
`22:48.43`	`learner`	`WD special editions`
`22:48.47`	`fiberchunks`	`prot-work> ah`
`22:48.57`	`fiberchunks`	`western digital, really... hrm`
`22:49.07`	`prot-work`	`so its best to do raid5 in software, if you want 5`
`22:49.33`	`fiberchunks`	`raid5 is mirroring no?`
`22:49.38`	`learner`	`no`
`22:49.39`	`fiberchunks`	`or is it striped / mirrored`
`22:49.43`	`learner`	`no`
`22:49.57`	`prot-work`	`raid5 is striped w/parity`
`22:50.08`	`fiberchunks`	`ah, thx`
`22:50.19`	`prot-work`	`so your overhead is 1 disk, but you can recover from a single disk failure`
`22:50.35`	`prot-work`	`which is important when you start building disk arrays`
`22:50.43`	`fiberchunks`	`1 disk meaning platter, or 1 disk meaning drive?`
`22:50.51`	`doughecka`	`drive`
`22:50.54`	`fiberchunks`	`thx`
`22:50.55`	`fiberchunks`	`again`
`22:51.29`	`fiberchunks`	`I assume that if you mirror, that overhead is one drive / drive correct?`
`22:51.43`	`prot-work`	`right`
`22:51.46`	`fiberchunks`	`makes sense`
`22:52.04`	`prot-work`	`pure striping has no redundancy at all, but is really speedy`
`22:52.20`	`doughecka`	`doesnt the parity disk have to = the amount of striped?`
`22:52.24`	`fiberchunks`	`prot-work> does that mean that for an _entire_ array, that RAID5 still only requires 1 drive per the array, or is there some limit`
`22:52.27`	`prot-work`	`all the disks have to be the same size`
`22:52.35`	`doughecka`	`hm`
`22:52.49`	`doughecka`	`so lets say I had 3 50 gig drives, can I stripe it with parity?`
`22:53.02`	`prot-work`	`doughecka: yeah, yielding 100gb of space`
`22:53.20`	`doughecka`	`huh`
`22:53.22`	`learner`	`you ideally want 5 drives`
`22:53.26`	`prot-work`	`fiberchunks: no limit, but you can still only have 1 drive at a time`
`22:53.28`	`learner`	`or 10 drives`
`22:53.35`	`fiberchunks`	`ah, so overhead == 1 drive per array`
`22:53.42`	`prot-work`	`yep`
`22:53.47`	`fiberchunks`	`cool, thx`
`22:53.49`	`fiberchunks`	`good info`
`22:54.07`	`prot-work`	`the way we're going to do navi is to have 2 raid5 volumes LVMed together`
`22:54.31`	`doughecka`	`bwuahah :)`
`22:54.35`	`fiberchunks`	`volume == drive or volume == array?`
`22:54.44`	`doughecka`	`array`
`22:54.48`	`fiberchunks`	`thx`
`22:55.24`	`fiberchunks`	`nifty -- /me must learn about RAIDness`
`22:55.30`	`doughecka`	`its quite neat`
`22:55.32`	`prot-work`	`technically a drive is a volume, but its silly :)`
`22:56.03`	`fiberchunks`	`LVM is software RAID management right`
`22:56.27`	`prot-work`	`md is software raid`
`22:56.43`	`fiberchunks`	`~google for LVM`
`22:56.44`	`prot-work`	`lvm is logical volumes`
`22:57.00`	`fiberchunks`	`oooo, goody, tldp has a howto`
`22:57.02`	`fiberchunks`	`:)`
`22:57.50`	`fiberchunks`	`~google for hpt400`
`22:58.36`	`fiberchunks`	`~google for hpt404`
`22:58.39`	`fiberchunks`	`whoops`
`22:58.58`	`fiberchunks`	`~google for highpoint RAID`
`22:59.06`	`fiberchunks`	`ah`
`23:00.44`	`Mayhem`	`you know, google has a web page too...`
`23:00.51`	`fiberchunks`	`pardon prot-work, but the hpt404 indicates that it only supports RAID 0 1 0/1 am I missing something?`
`23:01.00`	`prot-work`	`fiberchunks: nope`
`23:01.06`	`fiberchunks`	`Mayhem> har -- it's quicker from the xchat`
`23:01.09`	`prot-work`	`fiberchunks: you don't use the hardware raid, and treat it as a bare ide controller`
`23:01.13`	`prot-work`	`then you do raid5 in software using md`
`23:01.18`	`fiberchunks`	`ah, ic`
`23:02.13`	`fiberchunks`	`pardon again, but why not just go with the 454?`
`23:04.43`	`prot-work`	`i don't recall looking at the 454, but last i checked the 404 was the best value`
`23:04.55`	`prot-work`	`ok, i think i'm gonna head home`
`23:05.03`	`fiberchunks`	`thx again`
`23:08.48`	`learner`	`Hehehhe .. I love the second slashdot article`
`23:10.31`	`Mayhem`	`The one talking us out of getting married and having kids? :)`
`23:10.58`	`learner`	`That's the one :)`
`23:12.16`	`larsl_56k`	`I don't need Slashdot to tell me the obvious. =)`
`23:13.38`	`learner`	`:)`
`23:14.02`	`JBDiGriz`	`No creativity left! <:-\|`
`23:14.17`	`fiberchunks`	`I coulda told you that years ago :)`
`23:25.04`	`fiberchunks`	`the dampening effect of marriage << why I will never get married ;)`
`23:25.18`	`fiberchunks`	`I am plenty dampened as it is, thank you :)`
`23:26.06`	`larsl_56k`	`For what operations?`
`23:26.34`	`learner`	`a large array of thousands of entries`
`23:26.40`	`learner`	`all lookups`
`23:26.48`	`larsl_56k`	`I suppose insertion and deletion of elements depends heavily on the memory allocation on the platform.`
`23:27.01`	`learner`	`lookups are all that really matter`
`23:27.10`	`larsl_56k`	`Are they not inlined?`
`23:27.21`	`learner`	`hence my pondering`
`23:27.46`	`JBDiGriz`	`fiberchunks: It's not clear that marriage has much to do with it. A long-time significant other will probably do as much damage, especially if they come with a 5 year old.`
`23:28.03`	`learner`	`heh, touche'`
`23:28.11`	`fiberchunks`	`lol -- true enough -- hence my 'plenty dampened statement' :)`
`23:29.05`	`fiberchunks`	`course the girl and I had a long talk about this about 4 years ago, and she knows my feelings on marriage in general -- I suppose I should dump her since I'm 30, and get my life back ;)`
`23:29.13`	`JBDiGriz`	`I also hope that I have enough creativity to occasionally provide something new, even if evil :{)`
`23:29.19`	`fiberchunks`	`lol`
`23:29.37`	`JBDiGriz`	`I didn't start dating my wife until I was 30.`
`23:31.28`	`JBDiGriz`	`I probably qualify for doing a number of rather unusual things in my life ;-)`
`23:32.11`	`fiberchunks`	`ditto that :) most of which I could've been arrested for, I imagine`
`23:32.49`	`JBDiGriz`	`Luckily, there are only a few that I could've been arrested for. Most were perfectly legal!`
`23:33.08`	`fiberchunks`	`see there, it takes true creativity to do things odd that are legal :)`
`23:33.37`	`JBDiGriz`	`It just means that the legal system isn't creative enough to make them illegal yet!`
`23:33.44`	`fiberchunks`	`lol :)`
`23:34.28`	`fiberchunks`	`btw, learner, all 'technically, I am working' work has stopped :)`
`23:36.13`	`JBDiGriz`	`I'll just put that into the fridge for a while.`
`23:36.29`	`learner`	`eek bear==beer :)`
`23:36.34`	`JBDiGriz`	`Be careful how you grab that "bear". They tend to grab back!`
`23:36.55`	`fiberchunks`	`:)`
`23:37.22`	`JBDiGriz`	`Personally, I think he should grab a bare! :{)`
`23:37.27`	`fiberchunks`	`captain_proton mentioned something about a bzflag lan party -- personally, I think that'd be a hoot`
`23:38.09`	`fiberchunks`	`have you mac dudes gotten any further with the fullscreen / blending crash bug ?`
`23:38.42`	`JBDiGriz`	`I've been busy sweeping up after other people, and learner's been playing in the server.`
`23:38.59`	`sussudio`	`"mac dudes do fullscreen/belding crash bug" featuring Godzilla, film at eleven.`
`23:39.18`	`JBDiGriz`	`~dict belding`
`23:39.23`	`captain_proton`	`yay i'm back`
`23:39.35`	`JBDiGriz`	`~google for belding`
`23:39.36`	`fiberchunks`	`wb`
`23:40.13`	`sussudio`	`JBDiGriz: don't remember "saved by the bell"?`
`23:41.16`	`JBDiGriz`	`It was a bit after my time, and that last site is for a UK hardcore band who specifically disclaims any knowledge of said sitcom.`
`23:41.28`	`fiberchunks`	`heh`
`23:41.52`	`fiberchunks`	`by disclaiming knowledge, aren't they proclaiming knowledge ? ;)`
`23:42.27`	`fiberchunks`	`dunno bout the bare part though -- that's up to her :)`
`23:42.36`	`learner`	`lol, fiber!!!!!!`
`23:42.49`	`fiberchunks`	`lol`
`23:42.59`	`learner`	`eh .. um ..`
`23:43.17`	`JBDiGriz`	`Maybe Doug will lift weights for you?`
`23:43.19`	`doughecka`	`sussudio is.. um... unfunny`
`23:43.40`	`sussudio`	`you know you want to be learner's toy, doug.`
`23:44.03`	`fiberchunks`	`learner> she's into big guys -- you look (from the back) like you qualify -- you never know ;)`
`23:44.48`	`learner`	`heh, big as in flubby or otherwise?`
`23:45.10`	`fiberchunks`	`get yer mind out the gutter man -- big -- large -- tall -- stocky -- whatever ;)`
`23:45.21`	`learner`	`HA lmao!!!`
`23:45.25`	`learner`	`I wasn't thinking that`
`23:45.31`	`fiberchunks`	`oh...`
`23:45.36`	`learner`	`heheheh`
`23:45.48`	`doughecka`	`so like, anything larger than herself :)`
`23:45.53`	`learner`	`meant tall or fat or buff`
`23:46.02`	`fiberchunks`	`I think an ant qualifies as bigger than she :)`
`23:46.51`	`fiberchunks`	`ahhhh, me is in a happy drunk mood -- this is a very good thing`
`23:46.56`	`fiberchunks`	`been a stressful week`
`23:47.00`	`learner`	`lol`
`23:47.22`	`learner`	`I salute you good sir`
`23:47.23`	`fiberchunks`	`skol!`
`23:48.04`	`fiberchunks`	`captain_proton> when's this lan party shindig happenin? and where?`
`23:48.15`	`captain_proton`	`thats a good question`
`23:48.30`	`captain_proton`	`the l33t answer would be that it would happen where i work`
`23:48.40`	`captain_proton`	`and get the 3d-ness goin`
`23:48.44`	`fiberchunks`	`oooo, with 3d immersive BZ for all? :)`
`23:48.57`	`*** join/#bzflag iLLf8d (~neener@user-0can1b0.cable.mindspring.com)`
`23:49.07`	`captain_proton`	`well not really immersive`
`23:49.16`	`*** join/#bzflag guest11111 (~~joe@procyon.penguinstalon.com)`
`23:49.23`	`iLLf8d`	`lo all is there a command to see peoples ips querying the server as admin?`
`23:49.25`	`fiberchunks`	`that's the 60" passive display right?`
`23:49.27`	`captain_proton`	`but on a 7x5.5' screen, with 3d glasses (polarized, not anaglyph)`
`23:49.35`	`captain_proton`	`no, different display`
`23:49.37`	`iLLf8d`	`i've needed to ban one or 2 cheats and I don't have my client in a mode that I can see their ips`
`23:49.39`	`fiberchunks`	`ah`
`23:49.43`	`iLLf8d`	`i've had to just kick them`
`23:49.44`	`captain_proton`	`but hooked up to the same machine as that one`
`23:49.54`	`captain_proton`	`iLLf8d: um.../playerlist`
`23:50.03`	`iLLf8d`	`wheres the command list for that puppy`
`23:50.04`	`fiberchunks`	`that would be incredibly interesting`
`23:50.09`	`iLLf8d`	`I keep looking at the bzfs source =P`
`23:50.19`	`fiberchunks`	`man bzfs?`
`23:50.41`	`iLLf8d`	`man didn't know it was in there`
`23:50.58`	`iLLf8d`	`guess i'm remember a time before it made it into the man page =P`
`23:51.00`	`iLLf8d`	`duh`
`23:51.03`	`fiberchunks`	`GENERAL SERVER COMMANDS << in man`
`23:51.18`	`captain_proton`	`i think they've always been in the man pages`
`23:51.33`	`iLLf8d`	`not way back heh`
`23:51.46`	`iLLf8d`	`before they were on a wiki or some other web page iirc`
`23:52.15`	`iLLf8d`	`ok gotta go back and ban some cheat brb`
`23:52.43`	`iLLf8d`	`dude respawns on bases in ctf when he dies and seems to enter field with gm when convenient heh`
`23:53.15`	`fiberchunks`	`can you ban by nick now? or is it still just by ip?`
`23:53.16`	`sussudio`	`iLLf8d: xmission?`
`23:53.23`	`iLLf8d`	`yeah`
`23:53.30`	`iLLf8d`	`howdya know?`
`23:53.30`	`sussudio`	`yeah i saw that.. the blue ones`
`23:53.30`	`iLLf8d`	`heh`
`23:53.37`	`captain_proton`	`you could always ban by name`
`23:53.37`	`iLLf8d`	`yeah Indy`
`23:53.43`	`iLLf8d`	`then moe is a penguin`
`23:53.51`	`iLLf8d`	`i'm guessing he's someone else now`
`23:54.01`	`iLLf8d`	`gotta figure out which one he'll cheat soon i'm sure`
`23:54.08`	`fiberchunks`	`captain_proton> really? I used to try that, but it never worked, always had to ban by ip -- kick, on the other hand, was by nick`
`23:54.17`	`iLLf8d`	`I get malformed ip things at times`
`23:56.13`	`fiberchunks`	`2 cases of beer if you and scanline implement the bzedit.py interface of doom`
`23:56.17`	`learner`	`either that or finish word filter`
`23:56.25`	`fiberchunks`	`LoEG?`
`23:56.41`	`fiberchunks`	`ah, LXG, got it`
`23:56.44`	`doughecka`	`lord of ego and golf`
`23:56.44`	`learner`	`League of Extrordinary Gentleman`
`23:56.46`	`learner`	`<PROTECTED>`
`23:57.09`	`*** join/#bzflag snyke (~snyke@eros.bingo-ev.de)`
`23:57.16`	`fiberchunks`	`brain cells ... dying ... typing still coherent ... mental functions ... failing`
`23:57.24`	`fiberchunks`	`:)`
`23:57.28`	`learner`	`eheheh, mee too`
`23:57.36`	`fiberchunks`	`oh, you imbibing too?`
`23:57.38`	`doughecka`	`you need caffien`
`23:57.47`	`fiberchunks`	`never -- promotes cancer`
`23:57.59`	`fiberchunks`	`barley and hops thank you`
`23:58.14`	`doughecka`	`promotes liver death`
`23:58.19`	`learner`	`~dict imbibing`
`23:58.22`	`fiberchunks`	`bah`
`23:58.30`	`learner`	`heh, yes I is`
`23:58.36`	`fiberchunks`	`yes, we be :)`
`23:58.50`	`JBDiGriz`	`imbibition, I'm going to have to start using that word!`
`23:58.56`	`fiberchunks`	`lol`
`23:59.01`	`learner`	`heh`
`23:59.13`	`doughecka`	`irc and alcohol dont mix, dont drink and chat`
`23:59.21`	`fiberchunks`	`he was presumed innocent by his atrocious act of imbibition -- but was found guilty of being a twit`
`23:59.50`	`learner`	`irc and code go together well`
`23:59.55`	`learner`	`er, irc and beer`

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