| 00:16.52 | Noodleman | i'm back |
| 00:17.00 | Noodleman | muwahahaha! |
| 00:17.01 | Noodleman | hehe |
| 00:18.33 | sussudio | my head hurts |
| 00:18.44 | Patlabor221 | better then your ass hurting |
| 00:19.24 | sussudio | i dont think with my ass |
| 00:19.35 | sussudio | unlike your prez |
| 00:19.51 | Patlabor221 | most people don't |
| 00:20.00 | scanline | http://dubyaspeak.com/ |
| 00:20.04 | sussudio | msgid "Other informational messages may occasionally flash on the HUD." |
| 00:20.04 | sussudio | msgstr "Andere informele boodschappen kunnen af en toe op de HUD flitsen." |
| 00:30.21 | stibnite | darn i missed mr.apathy |
| 00:30.34 | stibnite | i got the german translation, finished and ready to go! |
| 00:38.50 | *** join/#bzflag MrApathyCream (dbrosius@209.195.250.97) |
| 00:39.06 | stibnite | MrApathyCream: got zee german translation |
| 00:39.43 | MrApathyCream | send it to me ? |
| 00:40.21 | MrApathyCream | kul |
| 00:40.27 | stibnite | :) |
| 00:41.03 | stibnite | i the translator included his name and email at the top in case there are any questions. :D |
| 00:41.14 | MrApathyCream | thanks |
| 00:41.26 | stibnite | np, all i had to do was threaten the guy |
| 00:41.38 | stibnite | (not really) |
| 00:42.10 | Noodleman | where can i find a template to do some l10n's? |
| 00:42.22 | MrApathyCream | hehe Grš§er |
| 00:42.30 | MrApathyCream | Noodleman, in cvs is a file called bzflag_xx.po |
| 00:42.38 | MrApathyCream | that has documentation in it |
| 00:42.38 | Noodleman | ok, thx |
| 00:42.47 | MrApathyCream | (and also all the strinsg) |
| 00:42.58 | Noodleman | kewl |
| 00:43.49 | sussudio | :-P |
| 00:43.55 | Noodleman | bbl |
| 00:45.29 | MrApathyCream | wow party time!! thanks sussudio, too! |
| 00:45.44 | sussudio | that'll be 3 pigs and spiff's head on a silver platter |
| 00:48.31 | MrApathyCream | german and dutch added to cvs |
| 00:48.45 | MrApathyCream | I need to fix up bzflag to handle some new german letters, tho... one sec |
| 00:49.34 | sussudio | ~ducatictf |
| 00:52.32 | MrApathyCream | What it the most reasonable simple char for Ÿ? Y? |
| 00:52.44 | MrApathyCream | (or chars) |
| 00:55.59 | *** join/#bzflag Chestal (thilo@vmax.unix-ag.uni-siegen.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
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| 00:55.59 | *** mode/#bzflag [+oo Chestal captain_proton] by hogan.freenode.net |
| 01:04.19 | MrApathyCream | german and dutch look good, thanks!! |
| 01:05.33 | jzaun | hey MAC |
| 01:05.46 | jzaun | http://stats.bzflag.org/bzflag_kg.po |
| 01:05.52 | jzaun | thats a start |
| 01:06.28 | MrApathyCream | k |
| 01:08.14 | sussudio | what do you call someone with SW shooting normal bullets? |
| 01:08.56 | jzaun | sussudio: a magical person |
| 01:09.26 | sussudio | or..... a cheater? |
| 01:09.34 | jzaun | sussudio: that too |
| 01:09.36 | sussudio | http://bzbb.homelinux.org/viewtopic.php?t=305 |
| 01:09.38 | sussudio | exactly. |
| 01:11.49 | MrApathyCream | jzaun: http://www.chesco.com/~dbrosius/BZFlag/kg.jpg |
| 01:13.19 | jzaun | MAC yup |
| 01:13.34 | jzaun | still looking for an apropreate translation of Rouge |
| 01:13.42 | jzaun | the team colors are tranlated though |
| 01:13.44 | sussudio | rouge? |
| 01:13.48 | MrApathyCream | rogue |
| 01:13.59 | MrApathyCream | klingon checked in |
| 01:13.59 | jzaun | rogue... |
| 01:14.06 | MrApathyCream | when you finish, lemme know |
| 01:14.18 | jzaun | I have dbl-checked the Klingon spelling too :-) |
| 01:21.16 | MrApathyCream | Noodleman, whatca planning on translating to? |
| 01:28.38 | sussudio | what about lotlhwI' (rebel) |
| 01:29.08 | MrApathyCream | good |
| 01:30.14 | sussudio | http://chrisp.de/files/muhaqwi-unix-16.zip |
| 01:41.38 | hardwire | on a small signal diode.. which marking goes to + ? |
| 01:43.26 | scanline | black stripe is -, the other side is + |
| 01:44.05 | hardwire | you rule |
| 01:44.13 | scanline | haha :) |
| 01:44.18 | hardwire | I forgot that bold was the triangle |
| 01:44.40 | hardwire | we are testing out sound modems tonight :) |
| 01:44.52 | scanline | hmm? |
| 01:44.59 | hardwire | packet radio basically |
| 01:45.04 | scanline | hmm |
| 01:45.08 | scanline | neat |
| 01:45.12 | hardwire | we are making a camera weather balloon |
| 01:45.15 | hardwire | it looks cool so far |
| 01:45.20 | hardwire | we are getting the aprs system working |
| 01:46.04 | hardwire | I am making the serial trigger for the ptt trigger on ham radios right now |
| 01:46.12 | hardwire | I think I just wanna start making vox triggers soon |
| 01:46.13 | scanline | ah |
| 01:46.54 | hardwire | come up for our dorky launch |
| 01:46.59 | hardwire | est: 100,000 feet |
| 01:47.05 | scanline | where at? |
| 01:47.13 | hardwire | Fort Collins |
| 01:47.56 | scanline | might do that, if I had transportation... we'll have to get gonkulator or captain_proton interested :) |
| 01:48.00 | bzdoug_ | http://www.ufomag.co.uk/euroseti.htm |
| 01:48.05 | bzdoug_ | that made slashdot news |
| 01:48.11 | bzdoug_ | in the science section |
| 01:48.12 | hardwire | scanline: groovy |
| 01:48.22 | MrApathyCream | no *shrug*? |
| 01:48.39 | bzdoug_ | hardwire: hmm, packet radio? |
| 01:49.07 | hardwire | bzdoug yeh |
| 01:49.24 | bzdoug_ | hardwire: cool |
| 01:49.34 | bzdoug_ | hardwire: I have done RTTY over a laser beam |
| 01:49.36 | bzdoug_ | :P |
| 01:49.44 | bzdoug_ | and SSTV |
| 01:49.50 | hardwire | bzdoug_: :) |
| 01:49.52 | hardwire | anyhoot |
| 01:49.55 | hardwire | hard to solder/talk |
| 01:49.58 | hardwire | brb |
| 01:50.02 | bzdoug_ | lol |
| 02:06.54 | hardwire | scanline: :( |
| 02:07.11 | hardwire | how do I follow npn transistor symbols? |
| 02:07.53 | bzdoug_ | bah |
| 02:07.58 | bzdoug_ | stupid powersupplys |
| 02:07.58 | scanline | I always get the npn and pnp transistor symbols confused, and have to look it up :( |
| 02:08.01 | bzdoug_ | it just died |
| 02:08.10 | bzdoug_ | hardwire: heh, me too |
| 02:08.11 | hardwire | I forget which is collector |
| 02:08.15 | hardwire | and which is emmitter |
| 02:08.27 | hardwire | I guess the arrow point would be the emitter |
| 02:08.34 | scanline | I'm pretty sure the one that the arrow points to is emitter |
| 02:08.34 | scanline | yeah |
| 02:08.44 | hardwire | k so this is backwards :) |
| 02:08.47 | hardwire | good to know |
| 02:08.48 | bzdoug_ | ~google for transitor pnp npn symbols |
| 02:08.50 | hardwire | it wasn't workin |
| 02:08.51 | scanline | but I usually look it up anyway, since it's the type of thing I get confused easily |
| 02:08.57 | hardwire | bah |
| 02:08.59 | bzdoug_ | there ya go |
| 02:09.01 | hardwire | I tried diodes and google failed me |
| 02:09.05 | hardwire | tonight I am not googles friend |
| 02:09.12 | bzdoug_ | lol |
| 02:09.50 | bzdoug_ | bah, so now I am stuck with a really short PC for a firewall/router |
| 02:09.50 | Patlabor221 | all you do is retype crap that other people type |
| 02:09.53 | Patlabor221 | and say it's new |
| 02:09.56 | sussudio | s/gooooogle/pig/ |
| 02:10.05 | Patlabor221 | your' like slashdot |
| 02:10.13 | bzdoug_ | hey look! this just came in! "all you do is retype crap that other people type" |
| 02:10.15 | hardwire | it made no sense |
| 02:10.17 | bzdoug_ | 'lo Patlabor221 |
| 02:10.18 | hardwire | emmitter to ground |
| 02:10.18 | scanline | bzdoug_ IS slashdot |
| 02:10.29 | scanline | hardwire: right |
| 02:10.45 | scanline | emitter is where "holes" are emitted, so it's backwards from electron flow |
| 02:11.13 | bzdoug_ | is soviet russia, the transitor owns YOU! |
| 02:11.18 | hardwire | the problem is I am shorting to ground :) |
| 02:11.20 | hardwire | thats the point |
| 02:11.23 | hardwire | you short to ground |
| 02:11.35 | bzdoug_ | I aint very short of the ground |
| 02:11.38 | scanline | hmm.. kapoof? |
| 02:11.50 | scanline | ~kill bzdoug_ |
| 02:11.57 | scanline | ~kill -9 bzdoug_ |
| 02:12.00 | scanline | bah |
| 02:12.06 | bzdoug_ | ~kill |
| 02:12.06 | | ACTION kills all the morons |
| 02:12.22 | bzdoug_ | your dead, dont pass go, dont collect $200 |
| 02:15.19 | Patlabor221 | why can't the dead pass go? |
| 02:15.34 | bzdoug_ | they go directly to hell |
| 02:15.39 | bzdoug_ | cant pass go |
| 02:15.40 | Patlabor221 | not allways |
| 02:15.45 | bzdoug_ | hmm |
| 02:16.03 | bzdoug_ | then those people that go to heaven get $200 spending money |
| 02:16.14 | Patlabor221 | what if nether place wants them? |
| 02:16.34 | bzdoug_ | they keep playing the game of life |
| 02:16.52 | Patlabor221 | or they don't follow your judeo-cristian simple model of life and death? |
| 02:17.09 | Patlabor221 | so you let the dead still play? that means they pass go. |
| 02:17.14 | bzdoug_ | they can be a spirit, but I cant help them there |
| 02:17.31 | Patlabor221 | why only a spirit? |
| 02:17.55 | Patlabor221 | never underestimate the powers of the legon of the dead. |
| 02:18.54 | sussudio | klaatu verata nicto |
| 02:19.14 | Patlabor221 | Did you say the words? |
| 02:19.18 | Patlabor221 | ALLL the words? |
| 02:19.20 | sussudio | that's nice doug, now you die...... |
| 02:19.37 | sussudio | since any attack of a nato nation will respond in every nato country attacking the attacker |
| 02:19.45 | sussudio | so that means the US has to blow up itself |
| 02:19.47 | bzdoug_ | I aint nato |
| 02:19.56 | bzdoug_ | I am... um..... lunar |
| 02:19.59 | bzdoug_ | yea |
| 02:20.09 | sussudio | the feds with their cavity search equipment are on their way |
| 02:20.12 | Patlabor221 | no it was the act of an independet terorist, doug will be atacked by Homeland Security |
| 02:20.23 | bzdoug_ | oh yea |
| 02:20.25 | bzdoug_ | that |
| 02:20.29 | hardwire | this is just not working |
| 02:20.39 | hardwire | maybe I should not just solder all the leads to one thing |
| 02:20.51 | Patlabor221 | doug prolby likes the cavity searches. |
| 02:20.55 | bzdoug_ | hardwire: that would help |
| 02:21.35 | *** join/#bzflag jzaun (~jzaun@jzaun.static.telerama.com) |
| 02:21.45 | bzdoug_ | yo jzaun |
| 02:21.50 | jzaun | yo bzdoug_ |
| 02:22.14 | hardwire | scanline: heh.. |
| 02:22.28 | hardwire | so on the signal diode.. in the symbol what side is + |
| 02:22.31 | hardwire | the line or triangle? |
| 02:22.43 | hardwire | cause this is pissing me off :) |
| 02:22.50 | bzdoug_ | lol |
| 02:22.56 | scanline | triangle |
| 02:23.25 | hardwire | hmm |
| 02:23.45 | *** join/#bzflag jzaun (~jzaun@jzaun.static.telerama.com) |
| 02:23.56 | bzdoug_ | yo jzaun |
| 02:23.59 | bzdoug_ | long time no see |
| 02:24.06 | jzaun | yo bzdoug_ |
| 02:24.46 | hardwire | I hope I just don't have crappy serial ports |
| 02:24.49 | hardwire | now that would piss me off |
| 02:24.56 | bzdoug_ | hah |
| 02:27.25 | bzdoug_ | ~country .at |
| 02:27.26 | | hmm... country .at is austria |
| 02:27.32 | bzdoug_ | ah |
| 02:27.32 | jzaun | hardwire: why ya think you do? |
| 02:27.45 | jzaun | .at isn't AU... |
| 02:27.47 | jzaun | .au is |
| 02:27.47 | hardwire | jzaun: I just do |
| 02:27.58 | hardwire | I suppose |
| 02:28.04 | hardwire | trying to make some custom hardware |
| 02:28.16 | jzaun | hardwire: to do what? |
| 02:28.26 | hardwire | trigger the ptt line on ham radios |
| 02:28.48 | bzdoug_ | hardwire: hmm, shouldnt be any peoblem |
| 02:28.58 | hardwire | you aren't the one behind the soldering iron |
| 02:29.02 | hardwire | I am |
| 02:29.22 | hardwire | bzdoug_: its a simple matter of I suck.. |
| 02:29.30 | hardwire | I probably grabbed the wrong transistor |
| 02:29.34 | bzdoug_ | lol |
| 02:29.42 | hardwire | you would think any old npn at radio shack would be fine for this project |
| 02:29.53 | bzdoug_ | indeed |
| 02:29.55 | hardwire | exactly |
| 02:30.00 | bzdoug_ | I have the same ones |
| 02:30.10 | hardwire | http://www.baycom.org/~tom/pcf/ptt_circ/ptt.html#serial |
| 02:30.37 | bzdoug_ | hah, simple |
| 02:30.50 | hardwire | but it ain't workin :( |
| 02:31.05 | bzdoug_ | but then I would have etched my own circut board |
| 02:31.08 | bzdoug_ | :) |
| 02:31.11 | bzdoug_ | makes it simpler |
| 02:31.15 | hardwire | si |
| 02:31.44 | bzdoug_ | just solder and go, you could even space everything out by a few inches for room |
| 02:31.53 | hardwire | a few inches?! |
| 02:31.58 | bzdoug_ | sure |
| 02:32.07 | bzdoug_ | and put it into a box |
| 02:32.13 | bzdoug_ | wire in, wireout |
| 02:32.25 | bzdoug_ | you using a soundcard packet modem? |
| 02:32.49 | bzdoug_ | hm, whos software? |
| 02:32.56 | Patlabor221 | tountar a tarbal is tar -x? |
| 02:33.00 | bzdoug_ | I have never found any that works very well |
| 02:33.09 | bzdoug_ | packet wise |
| 02:34.09 | hardwire | http://www.baycom.org/~tom/ham/soundmodem/ |
| 02:34.17 | hardwire | all I need is enough to save me the cost of two tnc's :) |
| 02:34.27 | bzdoug_ | lol |
| 02:34.31 | bzdoug_ | indeed |
| 02:34.38 | bzdoug_ | I never saw this modem software |
| 02:34.42 | hardwire | $120-240 for two tnc's just for aprs |
| 02:34.53 | bzdoug_ | hah, too much |
| 02:34.57 | hardwire | on something that is going to float 100,00 feet in the air and possibly fireball back down to mother earth |
| 02:35.00 | bzdoug_ | what kind of radios? |
| 02:35.04 | hardwire | 100,000 |
| 02:35.16 | hardwire | yeasu and icom |
| 02:35.20 | bzdoug_ | hardwire: haha |
| 02:35.32 | bzdoug_ | hardwire: hmm, will it be 2 way? |
| 02:35.42 | hardwire | yeah |
| 02:35.43 | bzdoug_ | control the rocket? |
| 02:35.48 | hardwire | balloon |
| 02:35.53 | hardwire | not much to control |
| 02:35.57 | hardwire | more stream than 2 way |
| 02:35.58 | bzdoug_ | make it buzz your nearest air force base? |
| 02:36.00 | bzdoug_ | oh |
| 02:36.09 | bzdoug_ | ah |
| 02:36.43 | bzdoug_ | http://zipham.free.fr/ |
| 02:36.51 | sussudio | pigham! |
| 02:39.03 | bzdoug_ | hardwire: how do you access the software? |
| 02:39.15 | hardwire | with the os? |
| 02:39.19 | bzdoug_ | hardwire: yea |
| 02:39.25 | bzdoug_ | with terminal software |
| 02:39.28 | bzdoug_ | or whatever |
| 02:40.26 | bzdoug_ | ? |
| 02:40.41 | hardwire | ax-25 |
| 02:40.49 | bzdoug_ | ? |
| 02:41.19 | bzdoug_ | whats that? |
| 02:41.27 | bzdoug_ | ~google for ax-25 |
| 02:42.03 | bzdoug_ | hmm |
| 03:08.41 | *** join/#bzflag isfry (~Fry@216.77.205.197) |
| 03:15.39 | hardwire | yay |
| 03:15.40 | hardwire | it works |
| 03:35.19 | Jormungandr | hrm. no joy in #blootbot |
| 03:36.30 | Jormungandr | my po blootie isn't googling like a good blootie should. |
| 03:42.47 | *** part/#bzflag isfry (~Fry@216.77.205.197) |
| 03:54.58 | fiberchunks | ~dict viewport |
| 03:55.04 | fiberchunks | phbbt |
| 03:55.14 | fiberchunks | ~lart ibot |
| 03:55.19 | fiberchunks | lol |
| 03:58.10 | Jormungandr | heh |
| 03:58.22 | Jormungandr | at least ibot googles correctly. :) |
| 03:58.33 | Jormungandr | sunbot needs a lablootamie |
| 04:01.37 | *** join/#bzflag Noodleman (~3v1ln00dl@216.228.176.248) |
| 04:02.10 | Noodleman | how bzfs is taking ~98% of my cpu? |
| 04:02.15 | Noodleman | how come* |
| 04:02.32 | fiberchunks | this has been happening a lot lately Noodleman |
| 04:02.47 | Noodleman | i've heard it happen a few times |
| 04:03.01 | Noodleman | does anyone know why it's happening, tho? |
| 04:03.07 | fiberchunks | don't think so |
| 04:03.36 | Jormungandr | it was happening to me until I recompiled newest cvs a few days ago. |
| 04:03.52 | Jormungandr | then again, server isn't getting a lot of usage. |
| 04:04.02 | Jormungandr | so it might be that it's still broken. |
| 04:04.19 | Noodleman | i'm actually using g0 |
| 04:04.24 | Noodleman | i'm not using cvs |
| 04:04.29 | fiberchunks | a lot of people attribute it to 1.7g0, but I'm not sure how valid that is |
| 04:04.42 | Jormungandr | I was getting it with g0 |
| 04:04.45 | fiberchunks | (maybe very valid, since almost everyone that complains about it is using that rev) |
| 04:04.47 | Jormungandr | not getting it with new cvs |
| 04:04.56 | Noodleman | at least i have it restart every hour |
| 04:05.02 | Jormungandr | :) |
| 04:05.29 | Noodleman | is the problem fixed with recent cvs? |
| 04:06.12 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~JeffM@adsl-64-167-76-190.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 04:08.54 | Jormungandr | it hasn't loaded my machine down since I upgraded to new cvs |
| 04:09.08 | Jormungandr | again, not much activity on server, though. |
| 04:09.20 | Jormungandr | I'd like to put it under some load... maybe tonite. |
| 04:09.33 | fiberchunks | what server? |
| 04:09.39 | Jormungandr | dragon.org |
| 04:09.45 | Jormungandr | go load it up :) |
| 04:09.49 | fiberchunks | mkay |
| 04:09.55 | Noodleman | i've just set up a gkrellm that i can monitor the server with, i'll watch it for a bit, then i'll try cvs |
| 04:10.17 | Jormungandr | cool |
| 04:10.58 | Jormungandr | my gaim process takes more resources than bzfs. |
| 04:11.00 | fiberchunks | ooooo, fancy, flags in mid-air |
| 04:11.06 | Jormungandr | :) |
| 04:11.14 | fiberchunks | that intentional? ;) |
| 04:11.31 | Jormungandr | it's new -fb thing that M_A_C has in new cvs |
| 04:11.55 | fiberchunks | heh, yah, cept it puts flags literally in mid-air |
| 04:11.58 | fiberchunks | lol |
| 04:11.59 | Jormungandr | nod |
| 04:12.03 | Jormungandr | silly, but fun |
| 04:12.21 | Jormungandr | sounds like a bug to report. |
| 04:15.11 | Patlabor221 | maybe it's a feature? |
| 04:15.27 | Jormungandr | :) |
| 04:15.30 | Jormungandr | hi pat |
| 04:16.48 | Patlabor221 | how's it goin? |
| 04:16.55 | Jormungandr | not too bad. |
| 04:17.14 | Jormungandr | downgraded my hybrid-7 server back to a hybrid-6 server. |
| 04:17.20 | Jormungandr | and am working on a blootbot |
| 04:17.38 | Patlabor221 | a what? |
| 04:17.46 | Jormungandr | ibot is a blootbot |
| 04:17.47 | | parse error: dunno what the heck you're talking about, Jormungandr |
| 04:17.50 | Jormungandr | infobot |
| 04:17.57 | Patlabor221 | got it |
| 04:18.04 | Patlabor221 | how goes it fiber? |
| 04:19.17 | fiberchunks | good, whoopin on noodleman right now ;) |
| 04:19.38 | Jormungandr | cpu is still fine. |
| 04:21.12 | *** join/#bzflag victorvdl (~victorvdl@ip208.van98.pacifier.com) |
| 04:29.25 | Patlabor221 | for that forum Fiber I now have the choice of running UBB |
| 04:29.48 | fiberchunks | cool |
| 04:30.00 | Patlabor221 | but I don't know what one is better or worse |
| 04:32.18 | Patlabor221 | and jzuan is trying to set up VNC to allow users to login remote to the macine |
| 04:32.40 | jzaun | I've got the hard part done |
| 04:32.52 | jzaun | X strarts automatically, just need to get GDM on em |
| 04:32.58 | Patlabor221 | ahhh |
| 04:33.10 | Patlabor221 | how do I start VNC on a lin machine? |
| 04:33.20 | Patlabor221 | as a client? |
| 04:33.28 | jzaun | vncviewer <server>:<display> |
| 04:33.37 | Patlabor221 | ahh |
| 04:33.42 | scanline | yay for VNC |
| 04:33.47 | Patlabor221 | I just installed it on the lin macine |
| 04:33.58 | Patlabor221 | the X -query thing didn't work |
| 04:34.22 | jzaun | S -query would work |
| 04:34.31 | jzaun | but its a bandwidth hog |
| 04:34.33 | Patlabor221 | jZaun I had the same problem you did, nvidia no like it |
| 04:34.40 | jzaun | vnc is much better for what you want to do |
| 04:34.58 | scanline | VNC is more bandwidth intensive than X |
| 04:35.16 | Patlabor221 | what is the command |
| 04:35.17 | jzaun | scanline: not really, X is much slower from what I've seen |
| 04:35.20 | Patlabor221 | "S" ? |
| 04:35.27 | jzaun | s/S/X/ |
| 04:35.34 | Patlabor221 | I can't get that to go |
| 04:35.39 | Patlabor221 | says too many retransmits |
| 04:35.43 | Patlabor221 | then pukes |
| 04:35.52 | scanline | jzaun: well, it might depend on what you're doing. some applications are really slow over remote X |
| 04:36.05 | jzaun | scanline: a full desktop |
| 04:36.26 | scanline | jzaun: if you're moving a bitmap around the screen for example, VNC has to send images for each update whereas X sends the bitmap once then just sends commands to blit it to differen positions |
| 04:36.32 | jzaun | I just gotta figureout how to get GDM to use any display and just not :1 |
| 04:38.00 | jzaun | scanline: true, but overall for a full desktop enviroment (gnome) vnc is alot faster |
| 04:38.25 | Patlabor221 | and VNC seems to actualy work :) |
| 04:38.38 | scanline | jzaun: implementation details :) |
| 04:41.01 | fiberchunks | Patlabor221: whatdya mean, better or worse? |
| 04:41.14 | fiberchunks | forum wise? |
| 04:41.23 | Patlabor221 | what the pros and cons between phpbb and UBB are |
| 04:41.26 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 04:42.29 | fiberchunks | well, phpBB's install is uber simple, also, it's very easy to maintain once it's up and running properly...mysql, apache, php, that's it -- little install / config - up and going in about 10 minutes - tops |
| 04:42.39 | fiberchunks | don't know first hand bout ubb |
| 04:42.50 | Patlabor221 | well there is that issue you say with apache 2 |
| 04:42.56 | Patlabor221 | will that screw me? |
| 04:43.07 | fiberchunks | yah, but like I say, that may have been resolved -- lemme grep a minute |
| 04:43.16 | Patlabor221 | thanks |
| 04:43.39 | Patlabor221 | cus I just found out that we have a legit unuseed uub liscense just sitting there |
| 04:45.24 | jzaun | got it working :-) |
| 04:45.42 | Patlabor221 | coooooool |
| 04:45.43 | jzaun | BTW, nice GDM login screen |
| 04:45.48 | Patlabor221 | I love that thing |
| 04:46.13 | jzaun | no just got to get GDM to recognice the screen size :-) |
| 04:46.30 | Patlabor221 | ha |
| 04:47.58 | jzaun | ug... 56K and VNC are not nice together |
| 04:48.41 | Patlabor221 | I keep geting connection fialuers, odd |
| 04:48.54 | jzaun | you should |
| 04:49.02 | jzaun | I haven't told you how to connect yet :-) |
| 04:49.05 | Patlabor221 | LOL |
| 04:49.08 | Patlabor221 | makes sense then |
| 04:49.30 | jzaun | still testing... gimme a few |
| 04:49.40 | Patlabor221 | k |
| 04:50.20 | scanline | hiya captain_proton |
| 04:51.42 | fiberchunks | posted about it, will find out shortly, I think -- but I must get to bed -- I'll fill you in tomorrow, Patlabor221 |
| 04:51.53 | Patlabor221 | see ya, thanks again |
| 04:54.26 | scanline | dare I ask? |
| 04:54.35 | captain_proton | >:) |
| 04:57.10 | captain_proton | heeeey |
| 04:57.12 | captain_proton | scanline |
| 04:57.16 | captain_proton | you have electrical tape! |
| 04:58.12 | captain_proton | :)\ |
| 04:59.21 | captain_proton | scanline: may i have a nice square of tape? |
| 04:59.58 | Noodleman | to infinity and beyond!!! |
| 05:01.25 | scanline | aha |
| 05:15.18 | hardwire | aha |
| 05:15.22 | hardwire | you and kergoth |
| 05:15.23 | hardwire | aha |
| 05:15.25 | hardwire | aha that |
| 05:15.26 | hardwire | aha this |
| 05:18.22 | *** join/#bzflag lurgyman (~lurgyman@aden2-123-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 05:19.21 | *** join/#bzflag lurgyman (~lurgyman@aden2-123-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 05:22.07 | scanline | welcome back, lurgyman |
| 05:22.15 | scanline | argh, omniorb is still compiling! |
| 05:26.40 | Patlabor221 | cap or scanline, wana try something? |
| 05:26.58 | Patlabor221 | ohhhh i's not too bad |
| 05:27.19 | Patlabor221 | vnc to asgard.bakadigital.com:53 |
| 05:28.50 | scanline | and? |
| 05:28.56 | scanline | ah, and so it loads |
| 05:29.00 | scanline | cool |
| 05:29.08 | Patlabor221 | how fast was it? |
| 05:29.41 | scanline | decently speedyish |
| 05:29.46 | Patlabor221 | cool |
| 05:29.52 | Patlabor221 | want an account? |
| 05:29.52 | scanline | :) |
| 05:30.04 | scanline | I don't think I need one |
| 05:30.12 | Patlabor221 | jzuan got it hoked up so it loads to GDM and runs reses |
| 05:30.30 | jzaun | jzaun* |
| 05:30.49 | Patlabor221 | now I just want to see if I can con.. I mean ask cap if he can help me set up svn :) |
| 05:30.56 | Patlabor221 | I know I allways reverse letters sorry |
| 05:31.10 | jzaun | I do it to, its ok :-) |
| 05:31.48 | scanline | while we're VNCing, mind testing the speed of navi.picogui.org? |
| 05:31.55 | Patlabor221 | sure |
| 05:32.33 | Patlabor221 | any specifc port? |
| 05:32.53 | scanline | display 0 |
| 05:33.01 | Patlabor221 | it died |
| 05:33.10 | Patlabor221 | [JeffM@Moljenor JeffM]$ vncviewer navi.picogui.org:0 |
| 05:33.10 | Patlabor221 | VNC server supports protocol version 3.3 (viewer 3.3) |
| 05:33.10 | Patlabor221 | No authentication needed |
| 05:33.10 | Patlabor221 | Desktop name "PicoGUI VNC Server" |
| 05:33.10 | Patlabor221 | Connected to VNC server, using protocol version 3.3 |
| 05:33.11 | Patlabor221 | VNC server default format: |
| 05:33.13 | Patlabor221 | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:33.15 | Patlabor221 | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:33.17 | Patlabor221 | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:33.19 | Patlabor221 | Using default colormap which is TrueColor. Pixel format: |
| 05:33.21 | Patlabor221 | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:33.23 | Patlabor221 | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:33.25 | Patlabor221 | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:33.27 | Patlabor221 | Using shared memory PutImage |
| 05:33.29 | Patlabor221 | Incorrect number of scan lines after decompression. |
| 05:33.31 | Patlabor221 | ShmCleanup called |
| 05:33.33 | Patlabor221 | [JeffM@Moljenor JeffM]$ |
| 05:33.35 | Patlabor221 | it was fast to come up tho |
| 05:33.37 | Patlabor221 | seems there is an incorect number of you's |
| 05:33.40 | scanline | hrm |
| 05:34.00 | Patlabor221 | seems to hapen when I move the mouse to a near the buttons |
| 05:34.05 | scanline | it seems to be fine on some clients, crash others immediately, and on still others just show the occasional graphical artifact |
| 05:34.53 | Patlabor221 | odd, seems to work now |
| 05:35.05 | scanline | quite weird |
| 05:35.10 | Patlabor221 | but it's damn near peppy |
| 05:35.14 | Patlabor221 | like usable peppy |
| 05:35.23 | scanline | cool |
| 05:35.30 | scanline | so it's good when it doesn't crash and burn :) |
| 05:35.35 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 05:36.36 | *** join/#bzflag Noodleman (~3v1ln00dl@bc176248.bendcable.com) |
| 05:36.54 | Patlabor221 | mostly I want VNC for the ocasonal offsite tweak, and so I can move the machine to a cube without a monitor at work since I'll be on the LAN, it should be fast engouh |
| 05:40.46 | Patlabor221 | what did you get? |
| 05:41.26 | captain_proton | a little motorized thingy that shoots foam disks |
| 05:42.22 | Patlabor221 | oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo |
| 05:51.07 | *** join/#bzflag moe (~18884e42@203.194.240.139) |
| 05:51.17 | moe | cool |
| 05:51.27 | Noodleman | c0o1 |
| 05:51.31 | Noodleman | hehe |
| 05:52.08 | moe | dunno who I am doya |
| 05:52.12 | captain_proton | scanline: should soon have a colocated svn server |
| 05:52.13 | Jormungandr | how do you list available modules with cvs? |
| 05:52.22 | moe | great its a community insult portal on stats.bzflag.org =) |
| 05:52.23 | scanline | neato |
| 05:52.34 | moe | hmm |
| 05:52.42 | moe | its a bit slow tho |
| 05:52.45 | scanline | captain_proton: wonder if anyone would mind me moving picogui to SVN? :) |
| 05:53.41 | moe | ah well |
| 05:53.57 | scanline | it would be a big pain to transfer everything over though... |
| 05:54.28 | moe | bitch |
| 05:54.36 | moe | join any other channels hmm |
| 05:54.47 | moe | can't that is |
| 05:55.11 | *** join/#bzflag _ (~808a028e@203.194.240.139) |
| 05:56.04 | scan[cgi] | hmm.. this is bizarre |
| 05:56.23 | *** join/#bzflag jzaun-bakadigita (~jzaun@208.48.199.215) |
| 05:59.18 | *** join/#bzflag captain_proton (~jupiter@aden2-23-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 05:59.35 | captain_proton | scanline: hah - this guy just said i have free reigh |
| 05:59.37 | captain_proton | reign* |
| 05:59.50 | scanline | no down payment? |
| 05:59.54 | captain_proton | its only a 256k line though (however it is a dedicated link) |
| 06:00.42 | scanline | hmm |
| 06:00.48 | captain_proton | about 48GB redundant storage tho |
| 06:01.25 | scanline | wow! |
| 06:01.30 | scanline | how do you get stuff like this? :) |
| 06:02.58 | scanline | could we host other projects on it as well? |
| 06:03.21 | captain_proton | uh - he suggested it to me :) |
| 06:03.53 | captain_proton | probably |
| 06:10.24 | *** join/#bzflag ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 06:10.24 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o ChanServ] by hogan.freenode.net |
| 06:10.24 | *** mode/#bzflag [-o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 06:10.25 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 06:22.36 | Jormungandr | meow |
| 06:22.45 | Noodleman | woof |
| 06:22.45 | Jormungandr | almost time to go home. |
| 06:23.07 | Jormungandr | I hate reinstalling new versions of programming languages when important things count on them. |
| 06:23.11 | Jormungandr | upgraded python |
| 06:23.15 | Jormungandr | and mailman uses python |
| 06:23.18 | Jormungandr | I was nervous. |
| 06:23.40 | Jormungandr | works, though. |
| 06:23.49 | Jormungandr | upgraded from 1.5 to 2.2.2 |
| 06:23.50 | Jormungandr | :) |
| 06:26.50 | stibnite | anybody here in europe? |
| 06:28.06 | Noodleman | you are ;-) |
| 06:28.43 | *** join/#bzflag MrApathyCream (dbrosius@mxfcl1x22.chesco.com) |
| 06:28.58 | stibnite | hehe |
| 06:29.00 | stibnite | wow |
| 06:29.22 | Jormungandr | M_A_C, in that new mod in bzfs, are the flags supposed to float? |
| 06:30.44 | Jormungandr | I'm heading home now, but will be back in 15m... check out dragon.org... according to noodlman and fiber, I have floatie flags. |
| 06:30.48 | Jormungandr | bbiab. |
| 06:32.22 | MrApathyCream | Jormungandr: they did, i thought i fixed that |
| 06:49.55 | *** join/#bzflag fontenot (~fontenot@adsl-64-166-86-167.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 06:50.06 | Jormungandr | :) |
| 06:50.33 | Jormungandr | did you fix before or after you had me d/l cvs? |
| 06:51.16 | Jormungandr | I just went and looked. |
| 06:51.19 | Jormungandr | floaties! |
| 06:51.25 | Jormungandr | my map has floaties :) |
| 06:53.37 | *** join/#bzflag bzdoug__ (SteveJobs@216.135.68.133) |
| 07:01.01 | *** part/#bzflag Noodleman (~3v1ln00dl@bc176248.bendcable.com) |
| 07:02.07 | MrApathyCream | i think i fixed after |
| 07:05.27 | Jormungandr | ah. :) |
| 07:05.39 | Jormungandr | I'll update from cvs in the AM. :) |
| 07:06.49 | captain_proton | NOOOF |
| 07:08.44 | *** join/#bzflag bzdoug_ (SteveJobs@216.135.68.133) |
| 07:11.14 | *** join/#bzflag lurgyman (~lurgyman@aden2-123-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 07:11.14 | *** join/#bzflag jzaun (~jzaun@jzaun.static.telerama.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 07:15.30 | hardwire | woot |
| 07:15.40 | hardwire | 2 machines talking over eachothers sound cards |
| 07:15.43 | hardwire | with tcp/ip |
| 07:15.46 | hardwire | sick and wrong |
| 07:16.06 | scanline | captain_proton: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13718&item=3201277610&rd=1 |
| 07:16.25 | scanline | hardwire: haha, cool |
| 07:16.34 | *** join/#bzflag maddog (~4426f817@203.194.240.139) |
| 07:16.56 | hardwire | 1500-3000ms ping |
| 07:17.07 | scanline | Is this without the radio? |
| 07:17.19 | hardwire | w/o |
| 07:17.25 | hardwire | I got tired of my eyes vibrating |
| 07:17.38 | scanline | why such a long ping? lots of latency in the audio processing? |
| 07:17.47 | hardwire | heh |
| 07:17.52 | hardwire | well I am not too sure |
| 07:18.26 | scanline | how much packet loss? |
| 07:19.09 | captain_proton | scanline: >:) |
| 07:19.18 | captain_proton | eep |
| 07:19.19 | captain_proton | $20 shipping |
| 07:19.27 | scanline | captain_proton: just imagine a battlezone cabinet that runs bzflag :) |
| 07:19.35 | scanline | oh... didn't see that |
| 07:19.36 | hardwire | 15% |
| 07:19.43 | hardwire | 50% now |
| 07:19.44 | hardwire | oops |
| 07:19.48 | scanline | hardwire: you might try playing with the TCP timers |
| 07:20.01 | captain_proton | scanline: bwahaha |
| 07:20.14 | captain_proton | scanline: we need to PIC this baby up and make it USB |
| 07:20.37 | scanline | captain_proton: ...or just hook it up to an analog joystick port |
| 07:20.57 | scanline | 2 button, 2 axis, a little power for the light bulbs... |
| 07:21.59 | hardwire | scanline: I am |
| 07:22.04 | hardwire | playing with transmit burst sizes |
| 07:22.23 | scanline | captain_proton: there are a few more battlezone control panels on there now |
| 07:22.25 | scanline | http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3201832309&category=13718 |
| 07:22.43 | captain_proton | that one looks to be in better condition |
| 07:22.54 | hardwire | rather use straight tty |
| 07:23.25 | scanline | doesn't list the shipping cost |
| 07:24.50 | captain_proton | sounds like we'd have to buy the extra stick to replace the left one |
| 07:25.00 | captain_proton | since they admit it doesn't center itself |
| 07:25.04 | captain_proton | or inspect the mechanism\ |
| 07:25.38 | scanline | there was a single stick on auction |
| 07:25.57 | captain_proton | same seller |
| 07:27.07 | *** join/#bzflag \033[01 (trepan@CPE0040f42db082-CM00e06f15f704.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 07:27.14 | scanline | was battlezone a raster or vector game? |
| 07:28.07 | scanline | oh yes.. vector |
| 07:28.17 | captain_proton | =) |
| 07:28.19 | scanline | now that would be a challenge, to run bzflag on the original battlezone monitor :) |
| 07:28.27 | captain_proton | one of the only vector games ever |
| 07:29.03 | scanline | you could put opengl into feedback mode, and drive some custom interface hardware from it :) |
| 07:29.17 | captain_proton | eek |
| 07:30.07 | captain_proton | ARG |
| 07:43.23 | hardwire | 289bps |
| 07:43.24 | hardwire | wow |
| 07:43.30 | hardwire | Bps |
| 07:55.07 | Jormungandr | a cabinet would rule. |
| 07:55.55 | scanline | especially if it used the original vector monitor |
| 07:57.11 | MrApathyCream | 1frydaddy2frydaddy12frydaddy5frydaddy3frydaddy8frydaddy |
| 07:58.20 | scanline | wow |
| 08:00.29 | captain_proton | scanline: bwahahaha |
| 08:00.51 | scanline | PCI is annoying |
| 08:00.58 | scanline | I'd want to use an FPGA if it was a PCI card... |
| 08:01.03 | captain_proton | scanline: there are lots of ASICs to interface with PCI |
| 08:01.10 | scanline | true... |
| 08:01.47 | scanline | http://www.spies.com/~arcade/schematics/PDF/BattleZoneEngrSchem.pdf |
| 08:03.16 | *** join/#bzflag paul (~paul@hibernia.jakma.org) |
| 08:03.27 | MrApathyCream | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:03.32 | MrApathyCream | oops |
| 08:04.23 | scanline | another option would be reprogramming the 6502 on the battlezone board to read data from some convenient port, which we could then connect to the parallel port of something that could run BZFlag |
| 08:08.27 | scanline | If we could somehow obtain a battlezone cabinet, this would be an awesome electrical engineering project :) |
| 08:08.31 | *** join/#bzflag MrApathyCream (roger@mxfcl1x22.chesco.com) |
| 08:09.13 | hardwire | hmm |
| 08:09.14 | *** join/#bzflag MrApathyCream (dbrosius@mxfcl1x22.chesco.com) |
| 08:09.17 | hardwire | I can't blink |
| 08:09.20 | hardwire | p |
| 08:12.04 | captain_proton | real TV is so odd |
| 08:12.37 | MrApathyCream | still good |
| 08:12.46 | captain_proton | you have a monitor? |
| 08:13.01 | MrApathyCream | 'MrsApathyCream'? why yes! |
| 08:14.47 | captain_proton | whoa |
| 08:15.05 | captain_proton | a commercial for a device that multiplexes multiple signals into one telephone line |
| 08:15.40 | captain_proton | so you can talk on the telephone and browse the web at the SAME TIME! |
| 08:17.04 | scanline | it seems that my roommate is giving his friend-person the Annotated Introduction to Red Dwarf for Dummies |
| 08:17.38 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: that was a beautiful time |
| 08:18.27 | MrApathyCream | *sniff* |
| 08:18.37 | captain_proton | almost as beautiful as that gerbil poem on bzbb |
| 08:19.08 | *** join/#bzflag hoda (hoda@12-221-176-131.client.insightBB.com) |
| 08:19.17 | hoda | Hi |
| 08:19.48 | captain_proton | Hi |
| 08:20.09 | MrApathyCream | is that urs? |
| 08:20.09 | hoda | whats up with bz flag |
| 08:20.31 | captain_proton | mine? |
| 08:20.43 | MrApathyCream | sorry hoda, we don't talk about such things here |
| 08:20.48 | MrApathyCream | captain_proton: was that your post? |
| 08:21.31 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: i posted in that thread, but i didn't write the poem |
| 08:21.47 | hoda | i heard bzflag was gonna get converted to a mmorpg |
| 08:21.54 | hoda | hehe |
| 08:22.02 | hoda | bzquest |
| 08:22.55 | hoda | im starting an open media standard |
| 08:23.09 | hoda | for interactive media |
| 08:23.14 | scanline | ? |
| 08:23.24 | hoda | games mostly |
| 08:23.28 | scanline | ? |
| 08:23.31 | captain_proton | ? |
| 08:23.33 | hoda | textures models maps code |
| 08:23.48 | scanline | I think SGI already sort of created something like that... |
| 08:23.53 | hoda | anything artistic the user interacts with |
| 08:24.10 | hoda | can you link me? |
| 08:24.21 | scanline | http://opengl.org/ |
| 08:24.30 | hoda | :| |
| 08:24.30 | MrApathyCream | ;) |
| 08:24.35 | hoda | open art |
| 08:24.40 | captain_proton | http://www.sgi.com/software/inventor/ <-- that too |
| 08:24.44 | hoda | no open art domains are open... |
| 08:24.57 | hoda | open media is taken too |
| 08:25.03 | captain_proton | open inventor is more of a "media standard" than opengl |
| 08:25.15 | scanline | I seem to remember a project like that... somebody from WOPN was working on a doodad for collecting open media |
| 08:25.22 | hoda | I started writing a license |
| 08:25.22 | scanline | but for a game, I don't see how it would be useful |
| 08:25.28 | scanline | a game needs to have unique art |
| 08:25.45 | hoda | a game im working on uses a dynamic content service |
| 08:25.48 | MrApathyCream | unless ur 3D0 |
| 08:25.49 | scanline | it's good for code to be shared, but when it comes to artistic elements they should be just that: artistic |
| 08:26.11 | hoda | yeah but its more of an evolution of the scene |
| 08:26.38 | hoda | people who use other peoples art arnt good artists mostly |
| 08:26.56 | hoda | but i like using other peoples stuff to base my work on |
| 08:26.57 | scanline | that's why games have artists, not just coders |
| 08:27.18 | hoda | now there artists can use the media under my license |
| 08:27.19 | scanline | IMHO what basically amounts to an open clipart site would be detrimental to open source gaming |
| 08:27.33 | scanline | what you really need is a way to match up artists and projects, and I'm sure something like that already exists |
| 08:27.36 | hoda | the license makes any modification free |
| 08:28.24 | hoda | yes |
| 08:28.40 | captain_proton | scanline: games have artists? |
| 08:28.51 | hoda | ultima/? |
| 08:28.52 | captain_proton | scanline: we have a problem then |
| 08:29.01 | scanline | captain_proton: yeah... |
| 08:29.16 | hoda | its not clipart its a library |
| 08:29.23 | hoda | just like ogl lib |
| 08:29.34 | scanline | no, it's clipart |
| 08:29.34 | captain_proton | what exactly is it? |
| 08:29.35 | hoda | cept its composed of media data |
| 08:29.42 | MrApathyCream | clipart |
| 08:29.55 | hoda | an interactive 3d library with a license similar to gpl |
| 08:29.58 | hoda | hehehehe |
| 08:30.00 | scanline | hoda: Like I said, reusing code is good since it consolidates effort, promotes code improvement, and allows interoperability |
| 08:30.08 | scanline | hoda: BUT, reusing art just makes your game look tacky |
| 08:30.15 | hoda | i want peoples games to look better |
| 08:30.23 | captain_proton | OOOH |
| 08:30.30 | captain_proton | is the EMERSON SWITCHBOARD ad again |
| 08:30.30 | hoda | i want to improve ther textures and vice versa |
| 08:30.40 | MrApathyCream | saw it |
| 08:30.47 | captain_proton | just plug in one phone line, then hook in phone, computer, and fax machine! |
| 08:30.56 | MrApathyCream | i don't think it's simultaneous |
| 08:31.02 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: what station? |
| 08:31.04 | hoda | :| |
| 08:31.06 | MrApathyCream | you can put internet on hold while you take a call |
| 08:31.18 | hoda | it just provides a tone... |
| 08:31.20 | scanline | hoda: I can see that clipart would be better than really really bad art, but still both of those are crap compared to unique art |
| 08:31.38 | hoda | I want a universe of media |
| 08:31.48 | MrApathyCream | well it IS easier to mutate textures, then standard clip art |
| 08:31.49 | hoda | like millions of mesh's and maps and textures |
| 08:31.54 | captain_proton | looks purdy |
| 08:32.34 | hoda | games in the near future will evolve over time in a multiplayer enviroment |
| 08:33.01 | captain_proton | why do games have to be multiplayer? |
| 08:33.22 | hoda | to support independant development and competition developers will need a resource where they can without trouble or worry about license obtain media |
| 08:33.49 | scanline | It would make all open source games look the same |
| 08:34.08 | hoda | even with 10 million dif peices of media? |
| 08:34.13 | scanline | yes |
| 08:34.16 | hoda | i c |
| 08:34.24 | hoda | a logical opinion |
| 08:34.36 | scanline | because if you managed to collect 10 million pieces of media, very few of them would be decent looking |
| 08:34.53 | hoda | i can make 1000 textures a year |
| 08:34.59 | hoda | GOOD textures |
| 08:35.07 | scanline | If they're anything like your models I doubt it |
| 08:35.09 | hoda | like 10 for 20$ textures |
| 08:35.18 | hoda | im not so good at modeling |
| 08:35.23 | hoda | check this |
| 08:35.46 | MrApathyCream | 'this' is not tileable |
| 08:36.12 | hoda | i made that alittle earlier |
| 08:36.33 | MrApathyCream | insert url here _______________ |
| 08:36.49 | scanline | ha, that reminds me of the logo-thingy I did for my middle school when I attended it |
| 08:36.49 | hoda | and i started those before i made the avi |
| 08:37.29 | hoda | the point is it took me like 2 hours |
| 08:37.40 | hoda | and its nice and works |
| 08:37.46 | scanline | hoda: the textures aren't bad.. looks very flat, but I'm sure that's because you don't have much lighting |
| 08:37.52 | hoda | and the 6 barrels and bucket are nice |
| 08:38.01 | MrApathyCream | url? |
| 08:38.18 | scanline | but of course it's easy to make barrels and crates.. that's why they're a cliche |
| 08:38.22 | hoda | do a info on me but i dont have ftp server running |
| 08:38.27 | hoda | no shit |
| 08:38.28 | scanline | how many more games have to have barrels and crates everywhere? |
| 08:38.41 | hoda | some group is charging 10$ for like 5 barrels |
| 08:38.48 | captain_proton | scanline: LOTS! |
| 08:38.51 | hoda | on a website i chill at |
| 08:39.06 | hoda | so i pulled thos outa my arse earlier |
| 08:39.17 | hoda | just to compete |
| 08:39.35 | scanline | The whole idea of clipart means that it's not created for a particular purpose, but just to be there |
| 08:39.45 | scanline | in a game, everything should have a style that fits together seamlessly |
| 08:39.55 | MrApathyCream | bz needs barrels... shoot them and they explode |
| 08:40.14 | hoda | mine are free and low poly |
| 08:40.15 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: and they randomly fall out of the sky :) |
| 08:40.23 | scanline | That's why practically every other sign you see has one of those damn microsoft clipart stick figures on it |
| 08:40.24 | hoda | lol donkey kong |
| 08:40.46 | hoda | there should be a bzkong mod |
| 08:40.50 | scanline | hoda: low-poly is the wave of the past |
| 08:41.07 | hoda | well some things dont need more than 1k poly |
| 08:41.40 | scanline | but barrels shouldn't look like an outtake from a geometry textbook |
| 08:41.58 | hoda | yeah the textures blow |
| 08:42.05 | scanline | I'm not talking about the textures |
| 08:42.07 | hoda | the wood looks ok |
| 08:42.15 | scanline | the wood is generic |
| 08:42.20 | hoda | hey man guess who i made those for |
| 08:42.21 | scanline | it completely lacks character |
| 08:42.22 | captain_proton | hoda: barrels at 1k polygons? ok, i suppose, depending on how close you are |
| 08:42.34 | hoda | ther about 1-200 |
| 08:42.41 | hoda | each |
| 08:42.45 | captain_proton | ew |
| 08:42.50 | scanline | you think whoever hauled that barrel into your gray room did it without putting any scratches on the side? |
| 08:43.25 | hoda | they look really good actually |
| 08:44.25 | scanline | :) |
| 08:44.34 | scanline | clipart is just one of those things that makes me cranky |
| 08:44.57 | scanline | as is people touting "new" things for games that can't compare with what was available 5 years ago |
| 08:47.11 | crankybastage01 | what is that growth on top of the barrel? |
| 08:47.12 | hoda | there is nothing |
| 08:47.31 | crankybastage00 | I think it's a spigot |
| 08:47.32 | hoda | where can i get game media without worries? |
| 08:47.41 | crankybastage00 | hoda: gimp, blender... |
| 08:47.47 | crankybastage00 | hoda: gcc |
| 08:47.47 | hoda | lol |
| 08:48.12 | hoda | that is where i get them |
| 08:48.18 | hoda | from myself |
| 08:48.51 | crankybastage00 | If you look at the history of 3D computer games, each successive generation of game has different requirements for how it's media is stored |
| 08:48.55 | hoda | everybody wants everybody to work on there games, why not just share and let the whole community progress in a public way |
| 08:49.14 | crankybastage01 | because then all games will look the same |
| 08:49.20 | crankybastage00 | in the days of Doom, textures were usually 64x64 or so, maps were 2.5D vector drawings |
| 08:49.27 | crankybastage00 | in Quake, you had brushes |
| 08:49.51 | hoda | there all intercompatable |
| 08:49.55 | crankybastage00 | Models evolved from fixed point math and euler angles to floating point and quaternions |
| 08:50.00 | crankybastage00 | no, they're not |
| 08:50.08 | hoda | yeah they is |
| 08:50.20 | crankybastage00 | try using an original quake model in quake3 |
| 08:50.26 | hoda | thats why people code importers and exporters |
| 08:50.27 | crankybastage00 | if you could make a converter, the animation would look terrible |
| 08:50.43 | crankybastage00 | look at what Doom 3 is doing |
| 08:50.52 | crankybastage00 | Everything's high poly, bump mapped, and uses shaders |
| 08:51.01 | hoda | not new |
| 08:51.04 | crankybastage00 | sure you could use Quake3 models in it with the right converter, but it would look awful |
| 08:51.06 | hoda | old news |
| 08:51.19 | crankybastage00 | or look at what jetstream's doing |
| 08:51.21 | hoda | still my barrels would looks just as good |
| 08:51.33 | crankybastage01 | hoda: but your barrels wouldn't COMPARE |
| 08:51.34 | crankybastage00 | you could make a converter from quake models to jetstream models, but not only would it look terrible, it would slow the game down |
| 08:51.40 | MrApathyCream | insert joke here |
| 08:51.45 | crankybastage01 | they'd stick out like a sore elephant |
| 08:52.11 | crankybastage00 | The game's media has to be created to match the game's artistic and technical style |
| 08:52.25 | hoda | do you work on bzflag? |
| 08:52.31 | MrApathyCream | NO!!!! |
| 08:52.39 | crankybastage00 | it'd be much better to take all that effort and create media for a set of games that actually exist, rather than creating models for future games that will be obsolete by the time those games are written |
| 08:52.40 | hoda | cranky? |
| 08:52.45 | crankybastage01 | bzflag? whats that? |
| 08:53.04 | crankybastage00 | bzwha?? |
| 08:53.07 | MrApathyCream | the cb twins do not work on bzflag |
| 08:53.07 | crankybastage01 | ohh you mean that tank game |
| 08:53.15 | crankybastage01 | we took over their channel and kicked them out |
| 08:53.19 | MrApathyCream | yes |
| 08:53.24 | crankybastage00 | this is #cranky now |
| 08:54.00 | crankybastage01 | Jormungandr: spot #02 is open |
| 08:54.11 | hoda | Well i know for sure people appreciatte what im doing |
| 08:54.17 | Jormungandr | :) |
| 08:54.43 | crankybastage00 | A lot of games can just get by using 3dsmax exporters and such, but if you look at the games that actually innovate, they usually end up writing most of their own tools |
| 08:54.47 | hoda | so its not like your illogical ridiculous criticism would affect my judgment |
| 08:55.06 | crankybastage00 | open source games are just going to be second rate if they follow in the footsteps of commercial games |
| 08:55.17 | crankybastage00 | for open source games to get anywhere, they have to do something new |
| 08:55.24 | crankybastage01 | crankybastage00: what are you talking about!? open source games are SO GOOD |
| 08:55.36 | crankybastage00 | tuxracer r0cks |
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| 09:00.07 | Jormungandr | nothing like slugging through poorly doc'd sourceforge projects to make you grouchy. |
| 09:02.20 | Jormungandr | :) |
| 09:02.44 | Jormungandr | there is a info bot project in python called pynfo |
| 09:03.04 | Jormungandr | all sorts of docs on how to set it up, and stuff, but not a single word on how to address it. |
| 09:03.16 | Jormungandr | like a trigger character, etc. |
| 09:04.54 | scanline | wow, my VNC server has recieved a bunch of hits |
| 09:05.16 | scanline | haha |
| 09:11.43 | cranky_proton | for emergency long stick, break glass |
| 09:12.30 | scanline | ooh.. is lurgyman playing Starship Titanic? |
| 09:12.57 | cranky_proton | yep |
| 09:13.02 | cranky_proton | he got a lemon |
| 09:13.02 | scanline | whee |
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| 15:36.48 | [dmp] | ~ducatictf |
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| 16:10.39 | Secret_Hamster | lots of disruption on the ircnets today! |
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| 16:15.12 | sussudio | http://home.wanadoo.nl/sussudio/whoa.jpg |
| 16:19.38 | bomber | Pinguin ? |
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| 16:21.36 | MrApathyCream | I have a dream... that One day, captain_proton will actually write some code for BZFlag. |
| 16:22.31 | sussudio | my nightmare is that doug will. |
| 16:29.01 | MrApathyCream | sussudio, being foreign, probably misses the Martin Luther King symbolism |
| 16:29.20 | stibnite | you people have ruined me |
| 16:29.33 | MrApathyCream | 'foreign' of course being from a U.S. point of view |
| 16:29.47 | stibnite | i can no longer run my irc network because i prefix things like /sconnect with 'n' |
| 16:29.52 | stibnite | ALL THE TIME |
| 16:30.33 | MrApathyCream | lol: http://www.chesco.com/~dbrosius/BZFlag/BZTopTen.html |
| 16:30.39 | MrApathyCream | stibnite, that's you |
| 16:31.06 | MrApathyCream | bbl |
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| 16:38.19 | stibnite | lol |
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| 16:43.47 | [TeA|TrEE] | hello |
| 16:43.57 | [TeA|TrEE] | ~ducatict |
| 16:44.01 | [TeA|TrEE] | ~ducatictf |
| 16:45.47 | sussudio | hey the map upload on jzaun doesnt work anymore :-P |
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| 17:37.24 | Chestal | hmm, TextureFOnt::Fixed and TextureFont::FixedBold are the only fixed width fonts in bzflag right tnow, yes? |
| 17:37.37 | jzaun | yah |
| 17:37.42 | jzaun | and they are ugly :-) |
| 17:37.46 | Chestal | and we cannot easily use a proportionalfont for the panel because it woudl breakword wrap and things |
| 17:37.53 | Chestal | hmm, they're ok |
| 17:38.02 | Chestal | when not scaled |
| 17:38.03 | jzaun | not at larger sizes |
| 17:38.22 | Chestal | yes, when the consoel scales the font too much, it looks horrible |
| 17:38.27 | jzaun | you can do scaling with a proporional font |
| 17:38.33 | jzaun | its just more work to do it |
| 17:39.37 | jzaun | is CVS down, again? |
| 17:39.51 | Chestal | non-anon works |
| 17:39.59 | Chestal | I never use anon |
| 17:40.00 | jzaun | joy |
| 17:40.15 | jzaun | never gonna be able to get my hud patch back in sync with CVS... |
| 17:40.47 | Chestal | I'm modifying the HUD right now :-) |
| 17:41.07 | jzaun | heh, gonna be a pain for me to get the patch in sync after you commit then |
| 17:41.10 | jzaun | oh well |
| 17:41.38 | Chestal | well, I'm not commiting this, will make it a patch |
| 17:41.47 | Chestal | although IMHO it should get into CVS of course |
| 17:42.17 | *** join/#bzflag bzdoug__ (SteveJobs@216.135.68.133) |
| 17:42.18 | jzaun | what you doin to it |
| 17:42.18 | jzaun | ? |
| 17:42.34 | Chestal | option added to chaneg radar size |
| 17:42.49 | Chestal | hmm, both the fixed fonts should have a natural size? |
| 17:43.17 | jzaun | I would think they would, but I couldn't tell ya what they are |
| 17:45.23 | Chestal | hmm, I guess I am to lazy to dig into the TexFont class now |
| 17:46.58 | sussudio | jzaun: map upload seems to be screwed |
| 17:47.45 | jzaun | sussudio: how so? |
| 17:48.09 | sussudio | well i uploaded a map, it said "map uploaded" but it wasnt added to my maps or the worlds |
| 17:48.47 | sussudio | when i try to launch it manually, i get the map info but it launches OK corral |
| 17:50.00 | jzaun | is it listed in your (Edit Maps) screen? |
| 17:50.05 | sussudio | no |
| 17:50.33 | jzaun | try it again, if no go, send me the map (jzaun@jzaun.com) I |
| 17:50.38 | jzaun | I'll take a look at it |
| 17:50.52 | sussudio | k |
| 17:51.53 | sussudio | http://jzaun.com/bzflag2/dispmap.php?mapid=176 |
| 17:52.00 | sussudio | it's still not in the worlds list.... |
| 17:52.57 | *** join/#bzflag M_A_C (dbrosius@mxfcl1x17.chesco.com) |
| 17:53.28 | sussudio | dithers.map should be there somewhere. |
| 17:54.36 | jzaun | hmm it load and launches fine |
| 17:54.41 | jzaun | so it is in the database |
| 17:54.48 | sussudio | it launches OK corral |
| 17:54.56 | sussudio | last time |
| 17:55.20 | jzaun | just launched it |
| 17:56.23 | jzaun | its in the world list too |
| 17:56.29 | jzaun | about 1/4 the way down |
| 17:56.32 | sussudio | hmm weird |
| 17:56.35 | jzaun | do a seach for 176 you'll see it |
| 17:56.40 | sussudio | it took a really long time to load now |
| 17:57.13 | sussudio | maybe its kinda big |
| 17:58.55 | sussudio | x |
| 17:59.01 | sussudio | hmz i was lagging 1500ms on there |
| 18:17.33 | Chestal | MAC: German umlaut are hosed |
| 18:18.05 | Chestal | which makes me wonder |
| 18:18.18 | Chestal | are the unlauts in the source converted by text conversion? |
| 18:22.32 | *** part/#bzflag jzaun (~jzaun@jzaun.static.telerama.com) |
| 18:27.31 | *** join/#bzflag paul (~paul@hibernia.jakma.org) |
| 18:27.44 | Chestal | well, will discus this later, have to run, cu |
| 18:30.07 | MrApathyCream | Chestal: should be, but i might have missed some |
| 18:30.19 | MrApathyCream | will look |
| 18:38.15 | *** join/#bzflag MrApathyCream (dbrosius@209.195.250.36) |
| 18:46.16 | [TeA|TrEE] | ~ducatictf |
| 18:53.27 | MrApathyCream | boy i wish i could have tried the drugs the crs was on when he wrote the font system |
| 18:54.11 | sussudio | http://www.asu.net/bsh/union.rm |
| 19:21.44 | scanline | MrApathyCream: just wait until you see my new font system |
| 19:28.31 | [TeA|TrEE] | ~ducatictf |
| 19:30.40 | MrApathyCream | of course, "not for bzflag" |
| 19:30.44 | MrApathyCream | right? |
| 19:30.52 | scanline | bah |
| 19:30.56 | scanline | of course it's for bzflag! |
| 19:31.00 | MrApathyCream | really? |
| 19:31.05 | scanline | no |
| 19:31.16 | scanline | hehe |
| 19:31.23 | sussudio | ~pig scanline |
| 19:31.24 | | scanline is 44% pig! |
| 19:31.30 | scanline | I might try a new font system for BZFlag, but I haven't started one yet |
| 19:31.55 | MrApathyCream | 'might' being the operative word |
| 19:32.07 | scanline | Once I add Unicode support and caching to my "ftgl" driver, I could see how easy it would be to cram it into BZFlag |
| 19:32.11 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~jeffm@208.48.199.214) |
| 19:32.34 | MrApathyCream | that's as likely as Patlabor221 finishing the missile stuff |
| 19:32.38 | MrApathyCream | oh, oops :) |
| 19:32.48 | scanline | haha |
| 19:33.32 | scanline | or... you could switch BZFlag's UI to PicoGUI and get my font engine for free :) |
| 19:51.15 | sussudio | can someone check up on ducati? it's behaving erratically |
| 19:52.36 | *** join/#bzflag lurgyman (~lurgyman@aden2-123-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 19:57.53 | *** join/#bzflag lurgyman_ (~lurgyman@aden2-123-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 20:00.34 | [TeA|TrEE] | sussuido i have np |
| 20:02.20 | sussudio | np? |
| 20:05.15 | [TeA|TrEE] | no problem |
| 20:05.16 | [TeA|TrEE] | s |
| 20:05.17 | [TeA|TrEE] | ;) |
| 20:05.19 | [TeA|TrEE] | np`s |
| 20:16.14 | *** join/#bzflag sussudio (Suss@d51132aa.cable.wanadoo.nl) |
| 20:26.34 | *** part/#bzflag [TeA|TrEE] (~Nicholas@pD9E96E7D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:35.39 | *** join/#bzflag calico (calico@bgm-66-67-1-87.stny.rr.com) |
| 20:35.46 | calico | hi all |
| 20:35.54 | calico | ~ducatictf |
| 20:36.06 | calico | thats it :) |
| 20:38.31 | calico | how come no one is around |
| 20:54.17 | *** join/#bzflag scanline (~micah@aden2-142-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 21:09.01 | *** join/#bzflag MrApathyCream (dbrosius@mxfcl6x214.chesco.com) |
| 21:09.21 | cranky_proton | MrApathyCream: you're a calculus fiend, right? |
| 21:09.31 | *** join/#bzflag Secret_Hamster (~piffle@pc2-mfld3-5-cust201.nott.cable.ntl.com) |
| 21:11.15 | MrApathyCream | cranky_proton: i went to school before calculus existed, so no. |
| 21:11.32 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~jeffm@208.48.199.214) |
| 21:11.49 | cranky_proton | damn |
| 21:14.55 | Patlabor221 | nice to see you too. |
| 21:15.34 | cranky_proton | Patlabor221: you're a calculus fiend, right? |
| 21:17.02 | sussudio | brat killed me 7 times on ducati :-P |
| 21:19.42 | bzdoug__ | yo Patlabor221 |
| 21:19.47 | bzdoug__ | yo cranky_proton |
| 21:19.49 | bzdoug__ | yo scanline |
| 21:19.52 | sussudio | evil brat |
| 21:20.01 | bzdoug__ | yo MrApathyCream |
| 21:20.02 | sussudio | ~sud |
| 21:20.06 | | shut up doug |
| 21:27.08 | Patlabor221 | fiend, no |
| 21:28.51 | bzdoug__ | wow, I am 7 miles from the nearest computer store |
| 21:29.02 | bzdoug__ | oh |
| 21:29.08 | bzdoug__ | sponsered places |
| 21:29.46 | sussudio | they probably moved just to get away from doug |
| 21:29.55 | bzdoug__ | hmm, no, 3 miles |
| 21:30.34 | Secret_Hamster | bzdoug__ I presume you failed map-reading in the scouts |
| 21:31.15 | sussudio | in kentucky they do chicken reading |
| 21:31.22 | bzdoug__ | Secret_Hamster: no, yahoo yellow pages has these "sponsered" companys |
| 21:31.29 | bzdoug__ | so I saw that first |
| 21:31.48 | bzdoug__ | I found one 3 miles away: I could ride my bike (if I had one) there |
| 21:32.02 | Patlabor221 | ride the cow |
| 21:32.20 | Secret_Hamster | sponsered? As in crap comapnies that can afford to pay them advertising, out of the massive mark-up they make on their goods :) |
| 21:32.20 | bzdoug__ | shes being milked right now |
| 21:32.28 | bzdoug__ | Secret_Hamster: yup |
| 21:32.37 | Secret_Hamster | I can't ride a bike |
| 21:32.45 | bzdoug__ | heh |
| 21:32.48 | bzdoug__ | walk? |
| 21:32.49 | bzdoug__ | jog? |
| 21:32.56 | bzdoug__ | run? sprint? |
| 21:33.08 | bzdoug__ | I can ride that if it was road legal |
| 21:33.10 | Secret_Hamster | in this country you'd freeze first |
| 21:33.18 | bzdoug__ | since I have to cross a highway.... |
| 21:33.22 | bzdoug__ | Secret_Hamster: hah |
| 21:33.32 | Secret_Hamster | If you tried to run on the roads round here you'd get run over |
| 21:33.43 | bzdoug__ | lol |
| 21:35.22 | Secret_Hamster | that reminds me some twatty kids threw wet toilet paper at my car his evening. little bastards |
| 21:35.39 | Secret_Hamster | sounded like they'de dented the car door |
| 21:35.51 | Patlabor221 | anyone know how to set up a CVS server? |
| 21:36.35 | sussudio | ~google for set up a cvs server |
| 21:36.55 | cranky_proton | Patlabor221: c'mon, just set up SVN |
| 21:36.57 | Secret_Hamster | I've decided I don't just dislike kids anymore. I now think they are a wste of space and I wnt nothign to do with them |
| 21:37.05 | bzdoug__ | Secret_Hamster: hmm |
| 21:37.19 | cranky_proton | then you can access-control bzdoug__ out |
| 21:37.37 | bzdoug__ | I think hes cranky today |
| 21:37.57 | Secret_Hamster | who cranky_proton, how did you guess |
| 21:38.14 | bzdoug__ | dunno, I got inspired |
| 21:38.25 | pissed_off_hamst | oh piss |
| 21:38.40 | cranky_proton | pissed_off_hamst: you could do it with BumpyCaps |
| 21:38.45 | cranky_proton | PissedOffHamster |
| 21:38.46 | Patlabor221 | cap: I would set up svn but I don't think I have the right version of the stuff it needs |
| 21:38.55 | cranky_proton | Patlabor221: you have apache 2.0, no? |
| 21:38.56 | mean_lean_doug | grrr |
| 21:39.09 | hamster_pissed | cranky_proton: I can;t be arsed actually |
| 21:39.16 | Patlabor221 | the directions I had say that I need specific dev versions of stuff |
| 21:39.20 | mean_lean_doug | bah, I need to find one of them PCI angle thingys |
| 21:39.24 | Patlabor221 | but yes I have apache 2 |
| 21:39.33 | cranky_proton | Patlabor221: thats all you really need |
| 21:39.45 | mean_lean_doug | Patlabor221: you have any U1 rack stuff at work #2? |
| 21:39.54 | Patlabor221 | it talked about some sorta "DB" thingthat I need |
| 21:39.59 | Patlabor221 | rack, no |
| 21:40.01 | cranky_proton | U1? |
| 21:40.03 | cranky_proton | you mean 1U/ |
| 21:40.05 | cranky_proton | ? |
| 21:40.09 | mean_lean_doug | cranky_proton: whatever |
| 21:40.12 | mean_lean_doug | cranky_proton: yea |
| 21:40.43 | mean_lean_doug | what are those PCI angle cards for 1U systems called? |
| 21:40.55 | cranky_proton | riser cards? |
| 21:40.59 | Patlabor221 | PCI angle cards for 1U systems |
| 21:41.09 | Secret_Hamster | half height? |
| 21:41.23 | Secret_Hamster | 1/4 height? |
| 21:41.24 | mean_lean_doug | Patlabor221: ah |
| 21:41.27 | cranky_proton | half height are for 2U systems |
| 21:41.34 | mean_lean_doug | Secret_Hamster: no, they angle sideways |
| 21:41.45 | Secret_Hamster | really titchy little PCI cards for 1U systems |
| 21:42.02 | mean_lean_doug | Secret_Hamster: I would love to have one of them too |
| 21:42.05 | isfry | you mean riser cards |
| 21:42.09 | mean_lean_doug | isfry: yea |
| 21:42.36 | sussudio | back it up then |
| 21:42.41 | Secret_Hamster | Patlabor221: dont worry I was reinstalling almost everyweek when I first used Linux |
| 21:42.47 | mean_lean_doug | Patlabor221: bah, its only 3 hours to reinstall and fiberchunks would be glad to set it back up for you |
| 21:42.55 | Patlabor221 | I would not know how to back it up and restore it |
| 21:43.02 | Secret_Hamster | tar |
| 21:43.08 | mean_lean_doug | lol |
| 21:43.16 | sussudio | Patlabor221: mount another disk, mke2fs on it, mount it on /newdisk, run cp -ax / /newdisk |
| 21:43.30 | Secret_Hamster | tar cxvf file directories |
| 21:43.34 | Patlabor221 | or I just con someone into set it up :) |
| 21:43.46 | Secret_Hamster | restore tar zxvpf file destination |
| 21:43.46 | Patlabor221 | doug is no mean. |
| 21:43.50 | MeanDoug | Patlabor221: heh |
| 21:43.51 | cranky_proton | Patlabor221: if you really want i can get subversion set up for ya |
| 21:44.02 | Patlabor221 | I would like somethin |
| 21:44.22 | Patlabor221 | got everything else working right |
| 21:44.32 | Secret_Hamster | Patlabor221: is there a tape drive to backup on? |
| 21:44.39 | Patlabor221 | no |
| 21:44.47 | Patlabor221 | I could put a burner it in |
| 21:44.52 | Patlabor221 | have a pile of those |
| 21:44.59 | MeanDoug | lol |
| 21:45.07 | Patlabor221 | and a zip drive |
| 21:45.09 | MeanDoug | Patlabor221: you still have a DVD drive in your car? |
| 21:45.25 | Patlabor221 | I think I put it in a system |
| 21:45.31 | MeanDoug | oh. |
| 21:45.38 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (timr@rikers.org) |
| 21:45.38 | Patlabor221 | and it's not writeable. |
| 21:45.44 | MeanDoug | yea |
| 21:45.59 | Chestal | hi Tim |
| 21:46.07 | MeanDoug | yo TimRiker |
| 21:46.07 | Chestal | hmm, where's MAC? |
| 21:46.25 | Chestal | I wonder whether we assume ISO Latin 1 for localization so far? |
| 21:46.45 | Chestal | I also wonder whether CVS text file conversion will try to convert umlauts etc. |
| 21:47.30 | cranky_proton | Chestal: we assume ASCII so far |
| 21:49.19 | cranky_proton | the actual translation files have all the special characters (not sure of encoding), which apathy then translates into "english" equivalents until we have font support |
| 21:49.25 | Chestal | proton: for the fotns, but not for the language files |
| 21:49.38 | Chestal | proton: yes, but the translation files need to have an encoding |
| 21:50.46 | scanline | I think MAC is waiting on me to write a new font engine :) |
| 21:51.02 | Chestal | proton: and the source code has an encoding, too |
| 21:52.35 | MeanDoug | anyone hear of IPCop linux? |
| 21:52.38 | Patlabor221 | or he's finding new insults for me, so I finish his missle |
| 21:52.51 | MeanDoug | its a wonderfull router/firewall/VPN/NAT |
| 21:53.45 | *** join/#bzflag Fanta (~trillian@p508F0AF4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:53.55 | sussudio | oh just shut it doug |
| 21:55.41 | cranky_proton | bah |
| 21:55.47 | cranky_proton | dan just told me to derividate that |
| 22:03.24 | calico | fanta you here |
| 22:04.33 | calico | anyone want to have a match against HoW |
| 22:04.37 | Chestal | calico: arranging your daily match? |
| 22:04.39 | Fanta | yes |
| 22:04.43 | calico | nnow |
| 22:04.54 | calico | yeppers :) |
| 22:05.13 | Chestal | maybe I should introduce some rule which forbids two teams to have more than 10 matches or so :-) |
| 22:05.13 | Fanta | oh, yes i'm here |
| 22:05.16 | Fanta | testing trillian |
| 22:05.19 | Fanta | uff |
| 22:05.22 | calico | lol |
| 22:05.34 | calico | when do you want to play fanta |
| 22:05.39 | sussudio | killing the zeeeeeeee-pigz |
| 22:05.39 | calico | w339 is on ducati now |
| 22:05.51 | calico | so is mirella |
| 22:06.00 | Fanta | and you ? alone ? |
| 22:06.00 | calico | i can get dmp if you want 3v3 |
| 22:06.02 | Fanta | nah |
| 22:06.14 | Fanta | we are only 2 |
| 22:06.23 | calico | ok do you want to go play |
| 22:06.29 | calico | 2v2 |
| 22:06.44 | Fanta | 5156 |
| 22:06.46 | *** part/#bzflag Fanta (~trillian@p508F0AF4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:16.42 | *** join/#bzflag MrApathyCream (dbrosius@mxfcl4x40.chesco.com) |
| 22:17.31 | Chestal | ah, hi MAC |
| 22:17.49 | Chestal | I'm still puzzled about character encoding, please explain :-) |
| 22:17.50 | MrApathyCream | tag |
| 22:18.00 | MrApathyCream | wassup? |
| 22:18.18 | MrApathyCream | the theory is the language files have the real characters, and the code converts them to legal ones |
| 22:18.57 | sussudio | ~ducatictf |
| 22:19.12 | MrApathyCream | (in hopes that some day, someone will take the same halucinigenic drugs that crs did, and be able to extend the font system to add the accented chars |
| 22:20.43 | MeanDoug | ~mr |
| 22:20.43 | | Console based mail reader. URL: http://rhea.ids.pl/~pborys/software/linux/ |
| 22:20.50 | MeanDoug | ~mrapathycream |
| 22:20.50 | | a big fat guy, old enough to know better than to stay up all night and play BZFlag, but does anyway. |
| 22:20.55 | MeanDoug | hmm |
| 22:20.58 | MeanDoug | who has tag? |
| 22:21.00 | MeanDoug | ~chestal |
| 22:21.01 | | a german gent that enjoys croissants with his pet duck, Tag. |
| 22:21.05 | MeanDoug | ahh, yes |
| 22:21.40 | Chestal | MAC: ok, but whch encoding to use for the language files? |
| 22:21.42 | sussudio | ~doug |
| 22:21.43 | | doug is, like, heckastupid |
| 22:21.48 | Chestal | MAC: the native encoding for each platform? |
| 22:21.56 | Chestal | MAC: or LATIN-1 everywhere? |
| 22:21.56 | MeanDoug | ~forget doug |
| 22:21.57 | | MeanDoug: i forgot doug |
| 22:22.06 | sussudio | ibot: traitor |
| 22:22.07 | | no idea, sussudio |
| 22:22.12 | MeanDoug | ~kill |
| 22:22.12 | | ACTION kills all the morons |
| 22:22.17 | MrApathyCream | ah,... well, dunno, i guess each translator used whatever they wanted |
| 22:22.44 | MrApathyCream | i would hope latin1 |
| 22:23.04 | scanline | isn't bzflag all ASCII? |
| 22:23.15 | MrApathyCream | yes, that's the point |
| 22:23.22 | MrApathyCream | while were waiting for you to fix the problem |
| 22:23.31 | MrApathyCream | we are trying to convert upper ascii characters to simple ones |
| 22:23.37 | Chestal | MAC: well, but we'd have to agree on one encding |
| 22:23.39 | MrApathyCream | but the language files have upper ascii in them |
| 22:23.46 | MrApathyCream | Chestal: YES |
| 22:24.07 | Chestal | MAC: and the xlating of special characters into plain characters will only work if the source code uses that same encoding, too |
| 22:24.17 | scanline | MrApathyCream: "upper ascii" is a misnomer, it's probably ISO Latin-1 |
| 22:24.20 | Chestal | is WIndow susing Latin 1 or something diffrent? |
| 22:24.20 | MrApathyCream | yes |
| 22:24.22 | *** join/#bzflag insect_power2 (~booble@pD9E50481.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:24.27 | insect_power2 | lo |
| 22:24.30 | MeanDoug | yo insect_power2 |
| 22:24.36 | Chestal | in Bundle.cxx there are some special characters which don't show for me |
| 22:24.40 | MeanDoug | is that insect to the power of 2? |
| 22:24.42 | MrApathyCream | ah |
| 22:24.52 | MrApathyCream | perhaps i should convert them to numeric escapes |
| 22:24.57 | MrApathyCream | (them all) |
| 22:26.01 | Chestal | two which I cannot read at all are the ones replaced by 'S' and 's' |
| 22:26.18 | Chestal | the § I replaced with ß because I thought this is what was intended |
| 22:26.38 | Chestal | ß should be replaced by 'ss' though |
| 22:26.41 | MrApathyCream | k |
| 22:26.46 | MeanDoug | can we have Æ caracters in bzflag for call signs? |
| 22:26.57 | MrApathyCream | MeanDoug: no |
| 22:27.00 | MeanDoug | oh |
| 22:27.02 | MrApathyCream | you can't type them |
| 22:27.05 | MeanDoug | how about for messages? |
| 22:27.13 | MrApathyCream | and we don't have characters in the bitmap for them |
| 22:27.17 | MeanDoug | ah |
| 22:27.21 | MeanDoug | will there be? |
| 22:27.23 | MrApathyCream | --it will crash, i believe |
| 22:27.27 | MeanDoug | it would be nice for german folks |
| 22:27.29 | MrApathyCream | MeanDoug: I hope so |
| 22:27.29 | Patlabor221 | somone is a bit unclear on the concept I think |
| 22:27.29 | MeanDoug | oh |
| 22:27.35 | MrApathyCream | ~emulate BZFlag |
| 22:27.36 | | ACTION sits hacking on blootbot, bzflag, tuxscreen, eLinux, and many other projects and mutters "Patches Welcome!" |
| 22:28.06 | cranky_proton | ~emulate MrApathyCream |
| 22:28.07 | | ACTION makes french fries and recompiles his kernel |
| 22:28.12 | cranky_proton | :) |
| 22:28.13 | MrApathyCream | heh |
| 22:28.22 | MeanDoug | ~emulate bzdoug |
| 22:28.26 | MeanDoug | humph |
| 22:28.28 | Chestal | evereythign except ASCII is evil anyway;-) |
| 22:29.08 | MrApathyCream | Does anyone have a clue how the font system works, (to extend it) |
| 22:30.00 | MrApathyCream | thought so... ;( |
| 22:30.17 | Chestal | those font texture file slook funny |
| 22:30.31 | MeanDoug | ~emulate bzdoug |
| 22:30.32 | | ACTION sits on #bzflag supplying wonderfull ideas for bzflag, and never gets paid |
| 22:30.59 | fiberchunks | Patlabor221: if you're around, check this out: http://www.php.net/manual/en/install.apache2.php |
| 22:31.00 | MrApathyCream | yup |
| 22:31.43 | MrApathyCream | if you put 1000 monkeys in a washingmachine with keyboards, their font system would make more sense |
| 22:31.52 | sussudio | ibot forget emulate bzdoug |
| 22:31.52 | | sussudio: i forgot emulate bzdoug |
| 22:31.54 | MeanDoug | MrApathyCream: indeed |
| 22:32.20 | sussudio | ibot emulate bzdoug is <reply> Sits around in #bzflag all day, spouting nonsense while plucking chickens. |
| 22:32.21 | | okay, sussudio |
| 22:32.30 | MeanDoug | hm |
| 22:32.32 | fiberchunks | lol |
| 22:32.36 | MeanDoug | ~emulate bzdoug |
| 22:32.38 | | Sits around in #bzflag all day, spouting nonsense while plucking chickens. |
| 22:32.44 | MeanDoug | ~forget emulate bzdoug |
| 22:32.44 | | MeanDoug: i forgot emulate bzdoug |
| 22:32.54 | scanline | MrApathyCream: I'll take a look at the font code |
| 22:33.10 | MeanDoug | ~emulate bzdoug is <action> Sits around in #bzflag all day, spouting nonsense while plucking chickens. |
| 22:33.11 | | ...but emulate bzdoug is already something else... |
| 22:33.17 | MrApathyCream | ~emulate bzdoug |
| 22:33.18 | | Sits around in #bzflag all day, spouting nonsense, and plucking bunnies |
| 22:33.23 | MeanDoug | ~forget emulate bzdoug |
| 22:33.23 | | MeanDoug: i forgot emulate bzdoug |
| 22:33.28 | MeanDoug | ~emulate bzdoug is <action> Sits around in #bzflag all day, spouting nonsense while plucking chickens. |
| 22:33.29 | | MeanDoug: okay |
| 22:33.36 | MeanDoug | ~emulate bzdoug |
| 22:33.37 | | ACTION Sits around in #bzflag all day, spouting nonsense while plucking chickens. |
| 22:33.39 | MeanDoug | better |
| 22:34.52 | scanline | MrApathyCream: looks like I could just rip out the OpenGLTexFont class and add some new code |
| 22:35.00 | MrApathyCream | please do |
| 22:35.05 | scanline | but.. there's a downside |
| 22:35.09 | MeanDoug | ... |
| 22:35.15 | MrApathyCream | you'd have to look productive? |
| 22:35.17 | scanline | bzflag will develop a dependency on having a recent version of libfreetype |
| 22:35.27 | scanline | 2.1.3 or later |
| 22:35.31 | MrApathyCream | is there win32/mac versions? |
| 22:35.37 | scanline | yes |
| 22:35.50 | MrApathyCream | is it gpl? |
| 22:35.57 | scanline | lgpl I think.. lemme check |
| 22:35.58 | Patlabor221 | what if we imolate doug? |
| 22:36.02 | scanline | I know it's GPL compatible |
| 22:36.14 | MrApathyCream | prolly ok then, i'd guess riker would be ok with that |
| 22:36.19 | MrApathyCream | but should check |
| 22:36.33 | scanline | the font code I'd be hacking up to use in bzflag is GPL'ed stuff I wrote |
| 22:36.59 | scanline | ah |
| 22:37.01 | MrApathyCream | are you doing unicode? or just 256? |
| 22:37.11 | scanline | freetype is dual-licensed, under their own BSD-like license and as GPL |
| 22:37.31 | scanline | MrApathyCream: right now it does 256, but I'm planning on extending it to handle unicode anyway, so I could do that before bzflagifying it |
| 22:37.46 | MrApathyCream | either way would be good |
| 22:38.13 | scanline | alrighty |
| 22:38.17 | MrApathyCream | Chestal: so are the mappings in Bundle fobar'ed at present? |
| 22:39.08 | MeanDoug | ~dict imolate |
| 22:39.17 | MeanDoug | ~spell imolate |
| 22:39.18 | | possible spellings for imolate: immolate isolate emulate immolated immolates impolite idolater imitate simulate umlaut |
| 22:39.26 | MeanDoug | ~dict immolate |
| 22:39.34 | MeanDoug | ah, cool |
| 22:39.56 | Patlabor221 | specificly the seting of the subject on fire. |
| 22:40.04 | MeanDoug | kewl |
| 22:40.06 | Patlabor221 | don't they teach you anything in school? |
| 22:40.18 | MrApathyCream | one would have to attend class |
| 22:41.07 | MeanDoug | MrApathyCream: did you go to a log cabin school? |
| 22:41.08 | Patlabor221 | true |
| 22:41.18 | Chestal | MAC: some of it |
| 22:41.29 | Chestal | MAC I tried to repair those which I know |
| 22:41.32 | Patlabor221 | if he did, at least it's a school |
| 22:41.49 | MrApathyCream | MeanDoug: home school, no formalized schools in my area at the time |
| 22:42.07 | MrApathyCream | Chestal: thanks |
| 22:42.31 | MeanDoug | MrApathyCream: kewl, home schooled too |
| 22:43.04 | Patlabor221 | seems he paid attention tho. |
| 22:43.07 | MrApathyCream | if you want to map ß to ss, go ahead |
| 22:43.39 | MrApathyCream | MommaApathyCream was a diciplinarian |
| 22:44.07 | MeanDoug | MrApathyCream: yo momma was home skooled too? |
| 22:44.17 | Patlabor221 | MommaDoug seems to never care what her son is doing. |
| 22:44.20 | MrApathyCream | dunno, was germanny |
| 22:44.31 | MeanDoug | MrApathyCream: cool |
| 22:44.38 | Patlabor221 | just to be sure BoltSceneNode is the GM right? |
| 22:44.48 | MrApathyCream | yes |
| 22:44.57 | Patlabor221 | and TracerSceneNode is the tail. |
| 22:44.59 | cranky_proton | what an intuitive name |
| 22:45.13 | Patlabor221 | they seem all funky |
| 22:45.23 | MeanDoug | heh |
| 22:45.26 | Patlabor221 | shell, shot, ray |
| 22:45.51 | Patlabor221 | what is a ray? it's not lazer, lazer is there allready. |
| 22:46.20 | MrApathyCream | ray is just math stuff i think |
| 22:46.34 | Patlabor221 | like lazer base kinda thing? |
| 22:46.38 | scanline | that's the path a shot takes IIRC |
| 22:46.41 | MeanDoug | death ray |
| 22:47.05 | MrApathyCream | ray == vector iirc |
| 22:48.02 | Patlabor221 | bahhh, this is not making it easy. |
| 22:48.17 | Patlabor221 | the renderer is created for each bolt |
| 22:48.29 | Patlabor221 | I don't want to load the model each shot. |
| 22:48.42 | Patlabor221 | one more level of abastraction here we come. |
| 22:49.12 | insect_power2 | french fries, ham ham ham |
| 22:49.13 | MeanDoug | lol |
| 22:49.15 | insect_power2 | french fries, ham ham ham |
| 22:49.53 | Patlabor221 | now to ponder, cheezy global, or realy cool named model mananger? |
| 22:49.53 | insect_power2 | leech |
| 22:50.07 | TimRiker | the final i18n stuff should be utf8 as should the .po files. They look to be latin1 now, but we can change that when we actually have display stuff that handles it. |
| 22:50.33 | MeanDoug | spam spam spam spam spam baked beans spam spam spam spam and spam |
| 22:50.50 | Chestal | TimRiker: still leaves the question as to how to handle >127 characters right now in the source |
| 22:52.26 | TimRiker | should treat them as utf8, but it now treats them as latin1, yes? |
| 22:52.33 | Chestal | I'd also like to discuss calculation of font sizes and mouse boxes |
| 22:52.42 | Chestal | TimRiker: neither really |
| 22:52.55 | Chestal | TimRiker: right now, they'Re in the source like 'ä' |
| 22:52.55 | MrApathyCream | TimRiker: yes, but converts to < 128 |
| 22:53.06 | scanline | TimRiker: I think I can rip out some chunks of code from picogui's OpenGL driver to give bzflag UTF-8 rendering |
| 22:53.06 | Chestal | so, it assumes source code endocing and language file encoding are the same |
| 22:53.34 | insect_power2 | what is utf-8? |
| 22:53.38 | Chestal | UTF-8 cannot be done for g2 anyway |
| 22:53.51 | scanline | Chestal: when is the g2 release? |
| 22:53.53 | Chestal | insect: UTF-8 is one of the many Unicode encodings |
| 22:53.59 | Chestal | scanline: don't know, soon |
| 22:54.08 | MrApathyCream | utf8 is a file format for encoding multibyte languages in an optimal way for roman languages |
| 22:54.12 | insect_power2 | why many? |
| 22:54.15 | TimRiker | well, I guess that's iso8859-15 since the euro is included... |
| 22:54.18 | Chestal | I have a couple issues which I would liek to see resolved for g2 |
| 22:54.48 | Chestal | but nothing major |
| 22:54.53 | TimRiker | MrApathyCream: and how does it convert a > 127 character? |
| 22:55.15 | MrApathyCream | case statements based on 'ä' like format |
| 22:55.26 | MeanDoug | ô, like those |
| 22:55.29 | TimRiker | Chestal: your quoted upper ascii char was an "a" with two dots in iso latin 1 |
| 22:55.30 | Chestal | TimRiker: |
| 22:55.44 | Chestal | TimRiker: yes |
| 22:55.45 | MeanDoug | Chestal: |
| 22:55.47 | TimRiker | it is not a valid character encoding for utf8 |
| 22:55.51 | MeanDoug | Chestal: :) |
| 22:56.08 | MrApathyCream | TimRiker: what happened that you had back out the match connect socket address to addClient? |
| 22:56.13 | Chestal | 'course nt, no utf-8 here or in bzflag so far |
| 22:56.20 | MrApathyCream | utf8 would be easy to convert to |
| 22:56.25 | MrApathyCream | <in this limited scenario> |
| 22:56.43 | TimRiker | MrApathyCream: all kinds of bugs. did not have time to assess what was the issue, but lots of folks had connect trouble. |
| 22:57.42 | TimRiker | so the case statement that does conversion assumes iso latin 15 now, and will have to be changed in the future to utf8 as will the .po files. |
| 22:57.48 | Chestal | I think I converted the German language file to Latin-1, from whatever it was before |
| 22:58.04 | *** join/#bzflag [dmp] (~somewhere@0x50c4919b.adsl-fixed.tele.dk) |
| 22:58.04 | TimRiker | what was it before? |
| 22:58.12 | Chestal | I have no idea |
| 22:58.21 | TimRiker | then how did you convert it? |
| 22:58.21 | Chestal | is WIndows using a diffeernt encoding? |
| 22:58.24 | *** join/#bzflag M_A_C (dbrosius@209.195.250.207) |
| 22:58.26 | Chestal | manually |
| 22:58.32 | Chestal | by guessing the characters |
| 22:58.40 | TimRiker | yes, windows is a bastardized iso latin 15 |
| 22:58.44 | MeanDoug | lol |
| 23:00.40 | TimRiker | windows 1250 is the default I believe. |
| 23:00.53 | Chestal | ok, now in CVS |
| 23:00.59 | TimRiker | iso 8859-15 is the what we seem to be at present. |
| 23:01.05 | MrApathyCream | bbiab |
| 23:01.28 | scanline | yeek |
| 23:01.32 | scanline | the current font code is scary |
| 23:02.17 | cranky_proton | yep |
| 23:02.25 | MeanDoug | ~yeek is <reply> [18:01] <scanline> yeek |
| 23:02.26 | | MeanDoug: okay |
| 23:02.28 | scanline | getValue() especially |
| 23:03.09 | Chestal | UTF-8 isn't very easy to handle though |
| 23:03.16 | Chestal | it's ok on dics, but in memory, urgs |
| 23:03.22 | scanline | what? |
| 23:03.35 | Chestal | well, it's not a fixed width encoding |
| 23:03.39 | scanline | UTF-8 is exactly the same as ASCII for the first 127 characters |
| 23:03.44 | Chestal | so you get all kind of problems when processing strings |
| 23:03.57 | scanline | it's harder than processing ASCII or UTF-16, yes. |
| 23:04.02 | scanline | but it's not that bad |
| 23:04.03 | TimRiker | scanline: as is latin-1 8859-15, etc. |
| 23:04.10 | scanline | right |
| 23:04.23 | Chestal | to my understanding, the UT-encodings are meant to be used when transferring data, not for processing |
| 23:04.23 | insect_power2 | xml uses utf-8 as default |
| 23:04.44 | Chestal | aren'T the UCS-encodigns eant fo rmemory? |
| 23:04.45 | scanline | Chestal: UTF-8 is designed to be ASCII compatible |
| 23:04.59 | scanline | so it's commonly used in UNIX, and in existing programs |
| 23:05.02 | Chestal | yes, but it's a transfer encoding |
| 23:05.09 | scanline | doesn't matter |
| 23:05.13 | Chestal | so you put it in files or in network protocols |
| 23:05.28 | Chestal | you do not usually use it to store strings in memory |
| 23:05.34 | scanline | why not? |
| 23:05.35 | Chestal | you use wide character stuff for that |
| 23:05.39 | Chestal | liek UCS-4 |
| 23:05.44 | scanline | eww |
| 23:05.53 | Chestal | you'd need a special string class which knows of the encoding |
| 23:06.05 | scanline | what does bzflag need to do with the strings other than display them? |
| 23:06.19 | Chestal | calc their lengthsd? |
| 23:06.23 | insect_power2 | what i dont understan in xml you spezify the encoding i the first tag. How does an opening app know what encoding an xml file is using? |
| 23:06.26 | Chestal | I am not sure |
| 23:06.29 | Chestal | I just see problems |
| 23:06.42 | Chestal | that's why I say, everything beyond ASCII is evil :-) |
| 23:06.47 | Chestal | even Java got it all wrong |
| 23:06.58 | scanline | Chestal: I've done a lot of work with Unicode... I don't sew why you'd need to do anything more than decode UTF-8 when displaying or measuring a string |
| 23:07.22 | Chestal | scanline: inw hat container do you store your strings? |
| 23:07.44 | scanline | I have my own "pgstring" object, that handles ASCII, UTF-8, and several custom encodings used internally |
| 23:08.19 | Chestal | does it allow access via index or traversing over the string? |
| 23:08.24 | scanline | yep |
| 23:08.32 | Chestal | and if so, what's the type of character used? |
| 23:08.41 | Chestal | or doesn't it hide the encoding from the outside? |
| 23:08.42 | insect_power2 | how does an editor know what encoding a .txt file is using when it loads it? |
| 23:08.51 | Chestal | insect: id doesn't |
| 23:08.58 | scanline | Chestal: the encoding is always Unicode, it hides how that is packed into a string |
| 23:09.05 | insect_power2 | hmm |
| 23:09.12 | Chestal | scanline: but what Unicode encoding? |
| 23:09.20 | insect_power2 | than how does it show the file correct? |
| 23:09.22 | Chestal | UCS-4 is the onyl flat encoding AFAIK |
| 23:09.31 | scanline | Chestal: so you'd get an iterator, seek that iterator to some part of the string using a character index, then get a character- that character would be a 32-bit integer |
| 23:09.41 | Chestal | scanline: ok, that's fine |
| 23:09.55 | scanline | It's not really an encoding when you're talking about a single character... it's just the numeric value of that character |
| 23:10.26 | scanline | so if you want to talk about it that way, it uses UCS-4 when dealing with single characters, but UTF-8, ASCII, or a custom encoding for everything else |
| 23:10.32 | Chestal | maybe I got the terms wrong, but you need to assign a logical character to a byte or bit stream |
| 23:10.50 | scanline | sure, but that is all hidden in pgstring |
| 23:10.58 | Chestal | well, I'd say it is UCS-4 to the toutside with internal UTF-8 represantion |
| 23:11.17 | Chestal | which looks fine to me |
| 23:11.19 | scanline | and really the only time you need to decode the UTF-8 is when you actually draw the string, or measure it's physical length |
| 23:11.28 | Chestal | but you still have to use a special string class for it |
| 23:11.32 | scanline | no |
| 23:11.43 | Chestal | but you did |
| 23:11.45 | scanline | in bzflag, you could treat the UTF-8 strings just like normal C strings almost all the time |
| 23:11.53 | Chestal | f you don't, you cannot iterate over the string in a meaningful way |
| 23:11.55 | scanline | picogui needs to do more string processing than bzflag |
| 23:12.09 | TimRiker | vim uses utf8 when editing ucs-2 or ucs-4 |
| 23:12.13 | MeanDoug | scanline: that vnc server up? |
| 23:12.16 | scanline | From what I've seen at least, bzflag only needs to be able to do things like draw, measure, and concatenate strings |
| 23:12.24 | TimRiker | it likes utf-8 terminals |
| 23:12.29 | scanline | concatenation, transfer, and storage is exactly the same in UTF-8 and ASCII |
| 23:12.42 | scanline | you only need to decode the UTF-8 when rendering or measuring, and that would be localized to the font code |
| 23:12.47 | scanline | MeanDoug: should be |
| 23:12.53 | MeanDoug | k |
| 23:12.56 | Chestal | you need to compare as well |
| 23:13.02 | scanline | Chestal: comparison is the same |
| 23:13.13 | MeanDoug | hmm, nope its down |
| 23:13.15 | scanline | Chestal: UTF-8 was specifically designed so strings can be compared in the same way as ASCII |
| 23:13.19 | Chestal | and the server does some extraction |
| 23:13.24 | scanline | MeanDoug: it's up |
| 23:13.26 | MeanDoug | aha |
| 23:13.27 | scanline | MeanDoug: navi.picogui.org |
| 23:13.29 | MeanDoug | the ip changed |
| 23:13.35 | MeanDoug | :) |
| 23:13.58 | MeanDoug | wow |
| 23:13.59 | MeanDoug | so slow |
| 23:14.11 | scanline | Chestal: like what? |
| 23:14.40 | TimRiker | utf8 does not specify sort order. it's locale dependant, not just character set dependant. |
| 23:14.45 | Chestal | scanline: nothing difficult, most of it is just comparing a substring, then getting a substring etc. |
| 23:14.55 | TimRiker | for our purposes I'm happy with an ascii sort. |
| 23:15.15 | scanline | Chestal: that shouldn't be a problem, UTF-8 distinguishes clearly between the first byte in a character and the rest |
| 23:15.17 | Chestal | is there any plae where lexicographical ordering is done? |
| 23:15.30 | TimRiker | tough luck if your accented a sorts after z |
| 23:15.43 | MeanDoug | sugpipe recieved |
| 23:15.47 | MeanDoug | sigpipe* |
| 23:15.50 | MeanDoug | whats that? |
| 23:15.51 | MeanDoug | hah |
| 23:15.55 | MeanDoug | the sad mac incon |
| 23:16.03 | MeanDoug | icon, where did you find that |
| 23:16.08 | scanline | I drew it |
| 23:16.14 | MeanDoug | hah |
| 23:17.19 | Chestal | well, I'm not very intersted in that localization stuff nayway, there exactly one thing where it would be neat to have for me: th ability to use German umlauts when sending messages |
| 23:17.27 | MeanDoug | nasty |
| 23:17.28 | scanline | Chestal: so.. UTF-8 awareness in the font code, and maybe sorting.. the rest wouldn't have to be changed |
| 23:17.37 | scanline | oh, and text input |
| 23:17.47 | Chestal | I don't think we need sortign at all, or I am forgettign something |
| 23:18.10 | MeanDoug | scanline: its so sloooow... if I click, my mouse dies, wierd |
| 23:18.29 | scanline | MeanDoug: I know the server's buggy.. try changing your client's encoding |
| 23:18.39 | Chestal | althoguh I still thnk it's kind of a hack to store UTF in a string class which is not aware of it |
| 23:18.42 | MeanDoug | I did.. lemme try somehting else |
| 23:18.57 | scanline | Chestal: heh.. it's what UTF-8 was designed for: compatibility |
| 23:19.01 | Chestal | at least withotu wrapping it |
| 23:19.01 | MeanDoug | RAW? |
| 23:19.09 | scanline | MeanDoug: no, anything but that |
| 23:19.11 | scanline | MeanDoug: try hextile |
| 23:19.13 | MeanDoug | lol |
| 23:19.27 | MeanDoug | :) |
| 23:19.31 | MeanDoug | I used tight |
| 23:19.43 | scanline | yeah, tight is a good encoder but the one I'm using seems to be buggy |
| 23:19.47 | MeanDoug | ah |
| 23:19.53 | MeanDoug | hextile wont load the screen |
| 23:20.06 | MeanDoug | cuz the client crashed |
| 23:20.09 | scanline | heh |
| 23:20.16 | Chestal | Tim, MAC: any takers for the not quit-so-new discussin about font sizes and the mouse boxes? |
| 23:23.44 | Chestal | grmpf, silly pppd does not redial automatically, I wonder why |
| 23:25.11 | Chestal | I think font sizes should be dependend on horizontal rather then vertical resolution |
| 23:25.49 | Chestal | the boxes right now look at both, which is fine in theorey, but here an approach which would only consider hor. resoution woudl work better, too, IMHO |
| 23:26.45 | TimRiker | mouse boxes? |
| 23:27.03 | TimRiker | you mean the targeting? |
| 23:27.17 | Chestal | yes, these are used for mosue sensitivity, too |
| 23:27.35 | Chestal | and right now they change size when the size of the view changes |
| 23:27.50 | Chestal | it also changes, when only the vetical siye of the view changes |
| 23:27.56 | TimRiker | well ideally it would look good in 3200x1200 as well as 256x192 |
| 23:28.00 | Chestal | liek when you go from 100% opacity to 90% opacity |
| 23:29.02 | Chestal | and I wrote a patch which allows the user to change the size of radar/control panel |
| 23:29.05 | TimRiker | perhaps font size should be x,y screen size dependant but targeting bot x,y view area dependant. |
| 23:29.29 | Chestal | for the font sze, x res is more improtant IMHO |
| 23:29.36 | TimRiker | how does the user specify the size changes? as a percentage? |
| 23:29.41 | Chestal | in the control panel, you'd liek to get 60 or 80 characters in one line |
| 23:29.47 | Chestal | via menu |
| 23:29.59 | Chestal | a slider with 10 settings right now |
| 23:30.13 | TimRiker | but "control panel" you mean "message area" ? |
| 23:30.17 | Chestal | yes |
| 23:30.19 | TimRiker | er by... |
| 23:30.24 | scanline | hinting! |
| 23:30.38 | Chestal | we only have two font sizes which are usable for hte message area anyway |
| 23:30.43 | Chestal | 7 point and 11 point I think |
| 23:30.54 | TimRiker | "10 settings" ? what are the 10 settings based on? |
| 23:31.02 | Chestal | the curent code tries to scale the larger font which looks uuuugly |
| 23:31.11 | Chestal | nothing really |
| 23:31.31 | Chestal | the curent code used 1/4 for the radar size (opacity=100%) |
| 23:31.38 | TimRiker | ie: pixels (bad) or percentage of something (in this case what?) |
| 23:31.48 | Chestal | which is as arbitrary as my 10 settings now. The 1/4 setting is about setting 3 on my scalr |
| 23:31.59 | TimRiker | right. 25% of vertical is the current o=1 |
| 23:32.22 | Chestal | I don't let the user to specify 0% or go beyond 50% |
| 23:32.33 | Chestal | it's more like between 10% and 45% or so |
| 23:32.53 | TimRiker | so you use the same percentage of vertical and just have a 10-45 or so slider? |
| 23:32.55 | Chestal | it's actualyl not important, user changes size and gets visual feedback, so he can just set it to any size he likes |
| 23:33.01 | Chestal | yep |
| 23:33.29 | Chestal | sae for opacity<100%, onyl that it adds additinal spacwe aroudn radar, didn't touch that code |
| 23:33.41 | TimRiker | it _is_ important, cause the user may be setting it up with the current display but then run the game in another resolution later. |
| 23:34.01 | Chestal | yes, but it's percentage, so it should look fien on all resolutions |
| 23:34.17 | Chestal | and peopel do not change resolutions frequently anyway |
| 23:34.24 | TimRiker | assuming the same x,y ratio, yes. |
| 23:34.35 | [dmp] | ~ducatictf |
| 23:34.40 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~jeffm@208.48.199.214) |
| 23:34.46 | Chestal | peopel are picky about single pixels :-9 |
| 23:34.48 | MeanDoug | 'lo Patlabor221 |
| 23:34.50 | scanline | ~nickometer [dmp] |
| 23:34.50 | | '[dmp]' is 0.000% lame, scanline |
| 23:34.56 | Patlabor221 | hello |
| 23:34.58 | Chestal | so changing resolution is a major step |
| 23:35.03 | scanline | Chestal: going to do font hinting? :) |
| 23:35.20 | TimRiker | what about a user that has a 3 headed setup and uses xinerama only sometimes. the important thing is to never have an invalid setup. |
| 23:35.33 | TimRiker | hence the % of vertical calculation. |
| 23:35.38 | Chestal | TmRiker: with percenatge of vertixal resoltuin, it cannot get invalid |
| 23:36.01 | Chestal | using a fixed size in pixels would be silly of course |
| 23:37.00 | Chestal | my current code also uses a new formula to calc the font size for the message area |
| 23:37.26 | Chestal | it uses width of message area in pixels / 80 (or 60 for big fonts setting) |
| 23:37.44 | TimRiker | sounds useful. |
| 23:37.49 | Chestal | and then used the result to select fixed or fixedbold |
| 23:38.00 | Chestal | this shoudl be done in a more felxible way when we have more fonts |
| 23:38.14 | Chestal | current code tries to use fixedbold and scae it when you play at 1600x1200 or so |
| 23:38.19 | Chestal | which is not a good idea |
| 23:38.23 | TimRiker | would give large fonts for a 16x9 display though. |
| 23:38.57 | Chestal | well, righ tnow there are onyl two font sizes which are useful for the message area |
| 23:39.01 | Chestal | tiny font and small font |
| 23:39.26 | Chestal | for a possible new font engine which uses truetype fonts, this would have to be made more intelligent |
| 23:39.41 | Chestal | but righ tnow this is better than trying to scale the non-scalable font |
| 23:40.11 | Chestal | I just wonder if I can query the font for it's physical size, righ tnow I have those ugly 7 and 11 conatsants in the code |
| 23:40.40 | Chestal | maybe getwidth() will do when noone calsl setSize() |
| 23:42.04 | Chestal | I'm also inclined to make the size of the target boxes configurable |
| 23:42.17 | Chestal | I'm playign with a apcthed g0 clien trigh tnow because I don't liek the changed target box size |
| 23:42.33 | Chestal | kinda a replacement for the missing mouse sensitivity setting |
| 23:45.04 | Chestal | I'll put the radar size patch on sf for now |
| 23:46.08 | TimRiker | Chestal: feel free to add a GetUnscaledWidth() or something. |
| 23:46.17 | *** join/#bzflag bzgirl (~brat@24.156.129.90) |
| 23:46.52 | Chestal | TimRiker: I'd have to take a deepekr look at the font code first, just browsed over it very quickly today |
| 23:46.58 | TimRiker | k |
| 23:47.31 | TimRiker | also keep in mind GM targetting. iirc the targeting box size is used for that as well. |
| 23:48.00 | TimRiker | to determine where you can/cannot lock. |
| 23:49.05 | Chestal | hmm, no idea |
| 23:49.36 | Chestal | from e4 to e6 the actual size of the targettign box epxloded |
| 23:49.52 | Chestal | becuse viewheight increased so much with the new fullscreen 3D |
| 23:51.05 | Chestal | doesn't seem to be used for locking |
| 23:51.11 | Chestal | it's usign a fixed angle-of-view |
| 23:54.53 | Jormungandr | heh |
| 23:54.55 | *** join/#bzflag MrApathyCream (dbrosius@209.195.250.206) |
| 23:55.08 | Jormungandr | tim... I am cjmandrake on blootbot forum. |
| 23:55.10 | Jormungandr | :) |
| 23:55.42 | Jormungandr | I'll checkout your google.pm later. |
| 23:58.09 | TimRiker | Jormungandr: k. |
| 23:58.20 | Jormungandr | actually, testing it now... |
| 23:59.15 | TimRiker | google for Jormungandr |
| 23:59.23 | TimRiker | ~google for Jormungandr |
| 23:59.36 | Jormungandr | works! |
| 23:59.45 | Jormungandr | thanks, tim. |
| 23:59.48 | sussudio | ~google for sussudio |
| 23:59.51 | Jormungandr | I like bloot |
