| 00:00:11 | doughecka | hehe |
| 00:00:30 | doughecka | XL will have that arbitrary geo thing? |
| 00:00:32 | Patlabor221 | the CAnimModel class will read UT, Md3, OBJ, BZG, and A32 and write OBJ, BZG, and A3D |
| 00:00:49 | Patlabor221 | sorry A3d not a23 |
| 00:00:49 | doughecka | ooh |
| 00:00:52 | doughecka | cool |
| 00:01:00 | Patlabor221 | 1.7 dosn't even have a model format. |
| 00:01:11 | doughecka | BZG? |
| 00:01:34 | doughecka | sheesh, I dint ask for lincity to be installed... |
| 00:01:56 | captain_proton | 18 minutes 'till XL is here |
| 00:02:02 | captain_proton | at a whopping 9kbps |
| 00:02:16 | doughecka | woo, speady delivery! |
| 00:02:16 | Patlabor221 | cap also in there is the curren pannel manager |
| 00:02:25 | Patlabor221 | and the last bza that used it |
| 00:02:51 | doughecka | ah yes... remember bza anyone? |
| 00:02:58 | doughecka | no, dint think so |
| 00:03:09 | Patlabor221 | bza evolved into BZflagXL |
| 00:03:12 | doughecka | shrugs and carrys on typing |
| 00:03:17 | doughecka | yea.. |
| 00:03:32 | Patlabor221 | BZA was a bit to ambisous |
| 00:03:38 | doughecka | heh |
| 00:03:40 | captain_proton | howso? |
| 00:03:56 | Patlabor221 | masive changes to gameplay that had not been thought out. |
| 00:04:11 | captain_proton | so now you're just making 1.8? :) |
| 00:04:23 | doughecka | noooooo |
| 00:04:28 | captain_proton | fubb, 26 minutes |
| 00:04:32 | Patlabor221 | it will have some simiaritys to 1.8 |
| 00:04:37 | Patlabor221 | but it will be my way |
| 00:04:40 | doughecka | what does "no screens found" on xfree mean? |
| 00:04:51 | captain_proton | doughecka: it means you've broken the config file |
| 00:04:56 | captain_proton | Patlabor221: what is your way? |
| 00:05:06 | doughecka | ooh |
| 00:05:08 | doughecka | dinner! |
| 00:05:11 | doughecka | is away: dinner |
| 00:05:12 | Patlabor221 | captain_proton: the way of GOD!!!! :) |
| 00:05:18 | captain_proton | Patlabor221: hehe |
| 00:05:30 | Patlabor221 | I mostly mean with SDL/LGE |
| 00:05:53 | Patlabor221 | I think it will have more in common with 1.7 then anything else |
| 00:05:58 | captain_proton | oh? |
| 00:06:12 | Patlabor221 | I intaly want to just see how hard it will be to get something like 1.7 running |
| 00:06:18 | Patlabor221 | then take it from there |
| 00:06:27 | Patlabor221 | I need to get someting that is "done" |
| 00:06:52 | Patlabor221 | but I don't want to be EXACLTY like 1.7 |
| 00:07:03 | Patlabor221 | I mean it should be able to handle arbitrary entitieys |
| 00:07:16 | Patlabor221 | and any texture |
| 00:07:27 | Patlabor221 | and have a particle system |
| 00:07:30 | Patlabor221 | and nice menus |
| 00:07:43 | Patlabor221 | but I don't want to go the "put everyting in XML" rout |
| 00:08:03 | Patlabor221 | I'd like the ents to be refrenced by classname in the map, and have them be some sort of plugin |
| 00:08:17 | Patlabor221 | so if a client dosn't have them, then they can be sent to the cilent. |
| 00:08:36 | [TeA] | night all |
| 00:08:42 | [TeA] | 1:09am here |
| 00:08:45 | captain_proton | sending plugin code from the server is a bad situation |
| 00:08:47 | Patlabor221 | wus. |
| 00:08:56 | Patlabor221 | I didn't mean real code |
| 00:08:59 | captain_proton | oh? |
| 00:09:05 | [TeA] | night night |
| 00:09:07 | doughecka | captain_proton: do you use debian? |
| 00:09:14 | Patlabor221 | perhaps a script |
| 00:09:15 | captain_proton | doughecka: hell no. i like my system to work |
| 00:09:20 | doughecka | oh |
| 00:09:24 | Patlabor221 | or if it just sent them to a place to get the latest version |
| 00:09:26 | doughecka | is away: dinner |
| 00:09:27 | bh | hullo |
| 00:09:39 | [TeA] | says"Night alL" |
| 00:09:52 | Patlabor221 | or if the part that had the ent logic was a seperat module |
| 00:09:59 | doughecka | cya |
| 00:10:01 | captain_proton | Patlabor221: yeah, a 'bzflagxl-update' page would be viable |
| 00:10:03 | bh | any sings of other avengers? |
| 00:10:03 | doughecka | [TeA]: bye! |
| 00:10:05 | [TeA] | cu all |
| 00:10:07 | doughecka | :) |
| 00:10:08 | Patlabor221 | and the app would allways make sure it had the latest when it launched |
| 00:10:08 | [TeA] | bye bye tad |
| 00:10:17 | Patlabor221 | like an auto patcher |
| 00:10:22 | bamf | bh? |
| 00:10:27 | captain_proton | but having it download plugin code type stuff from the server is just a bad security issue |
| 00:10:31 | bh | yeah? |
| 00:10:35 | [TeA] | you areall americans write |
| 00:10:38 | bamf | hey, any sign of team |
| 00:11:02 | [TeA] | check out bh in germany busen halter <---- check that all lol |
| 00:11:04 | [TeA] | c ya |
| 00:11:10 | captain_proton | foodtime |
| 00:11:42 | bamf | bh |
| 00:11:57 | bamf | bh: go to 24.194.98.76 port: 59999 |
| 00:12:01 | bamf | vbz is there |
| 00:12:04 | bamf | brb |
| 00:12:26 | bh | ok |
| 00:14:05 | doughecka | wonders how big his screen is |
| 00:14:13 | doughecka | pulls out his tape measure |
| 00:14:21 | doughecka | ah yes, 42 inches... |
| 00:14:56 | bh | apache is not around, ski is not around and firewolf is not around |
| 00:15:02 | bh | let me check my bzmsgs |
| 00:15:24 | doughecka | BAH |
| 00:15:31 | doughecka | still no screens found... |
| 00:15:56 | bh | weird, all I have is a reminder |
| 00:16:16 | bzgirl | bh: think they forgot about daylight savuings? |
| 00:16:46 | Patlabor221 | hmmm |
| 00:16:46 | bh | probably, although ski was aware of it, he mentioned it on his msg |
| 00:16:57 | Patlabor221 | ponders an "explode" function for each model. |
| 00:20:23 | bh | :/ |
| 00:32:13 | Firewolf | hey um, when i 24UTC now since time change? |
| 00:32:27 | bamf | hola firewolf |
| 00:32:41 | Firewolf | is i mean |
| 00:32:44 | bamf | 24 utc was 30 minutes ago |
| 00:32:47 | bamf | after daylight |
| 00:32:54 | Firewolf | woops |
| 00:33:00 | bamf | bh is here |
| 00:33:05 | bamf | who else is showing |
| 00:33:14 | bamf | bh is on my server now |
| 00:33:14 | Firewolf | well, isn't ski? |
| 00:33:30 | bamf | go to 24.194.98.76 port 59999 green team |
| 00:33:32 | bamf | bh is there |
| 00:33:37 | bamf | it's unlisted |
| 00:38:51 | doughecka | braps |
| 00:39:02 | doughecka | ooh, exploding models? |
| 00:39:08 | doughecka | buahahah |
| 00:39:20 | doughecka | so it could have health maybe? |
| 00:39:30 | doughecka | and if you shot it enuf it would blow up? |
| 00:39:40 | doughecka | muahah |
| 00:47:03 | Patlabor221 | well I just mean like bz tanks do |
| 00:47:10 | Patlabor221 | they 'splode |
| 00:47:18 | Patlabor221 | being able to do that to any model. |
| 00:48:05 | Patlabor221 | if they were defined where each explodable part was a seperate mesh part of the model. |
| 00:48:24 | doughecka | ah |
| 00:48:25 | doughecka | cool |
| 00:48:49 | Patlabor221 | hmmm |
| 00:48:56 | Patlabor221 | implements hidable meshes. |
| 00:49:01 | Patlabor221 | and enviroment maping |
| 00:49:07 | doughecka | ooh |
| 00:49:19 | ski1 | hi all |
| 00:49:24 | Patlabor221 | all defined by the skin |
| 00:49:28 | captain_proton | Patlabor221: just for future reference, !(x::iterator) isn't valid |
| 00:49:40 | captain_proton | use it == list.end() instead |
| 00:49:44 | bzgirl | ski1: go to 24.194.98.76 port 59999 green team |
| 00:49:50 | ski1 | ok |
| 00:49:57 | ski1 | thx |
| 00:50:10 | Patlabor221 | where did I do that? |
| 00:50:38 | Patlabor221 | and why would I |
| 00:50:38 | bh | ski |
| 00:50:40 | captain_proton | Patlabor221: did it all over in the sound manager |
| 00:50:43 | bh | geez |
| 00:50:49 | captain_proton | you're using !it to test if its invalid |
| 00:50:51 | Patlabor221 | was I on crack? |
| 00:50:59 | captain_proton | which doesn't follow spec, list.end() is the invalid iterator |
| 00:51:02 | Patlabor221 | like megga crak |
| 00:51:10 | captain_proton | heh |
| 00:51:13 | Patlabor221 | supppa megga super size crak |
| 00:51:33 | Patlabor221 | serialusly I don't remember doing that |
| 00:51:53 | captain_proton | if (!itr || itr->rInfo.bPlaying) |
| 00:51:53 | captain_proton | return; |
| 00:52:09 | Patlabor221 | yeah I see it |
| 00:52:12 | Patlabor221 | I just don't remember it |
| 00:52:18 | Patlabor221 | what he hell was I thinking |
| 00:52:32 | Patlabor221 | it's allways gonna be non zero |
| 00:53:01 | Patlabor221 | make it so #1 |
| 00:53:20 | captain_proton | argh, case-dependent filenames! |
| 00:53:37 | Patlabor221 | wizzards? |
| 00:53:41 | Patlabor221 | it's suposed to be dragons |
| 00:53:54 | Patlabor221 | silly bh dosn't know his bad geek refrences |
| 00:54:27 | Patlabor221 | I know I did some in the SM. I'm trying to be better |
| 00:54:43 | Patlabor221 | I wonder if I can turn someting on here to make it give me a warning |
| 01:00:20 | bh | ski1: we are waiting for you |
| 01:00:53 | bh | 24.194.98.76:59999 |
| 01:01:07 | Patlabor221 | wizards don't eat peoiple |
| 01:01:11 | Patlabor221 | dragons do |
| 01:01:12 | doughecka | ah |
| 01:01:48 | bh | ski1: ! |
| 01:01:57 | Patlabor221 | that is techincaly how it goes |
| 01:02:14 | bh | hey |
| 01:02:24 | doughecka | ah |
| 01:02:43 | captain_proton | Segmentation fault |
| 01:02:49 | Patlabor221 | at least that's what it says on all the bumper stickers |
| 01:02:50 | bh | TIMTOWTDI |
| 01:03:09 | bh | skiski: we are waiting for you |
| 01:03:16 | bh | 24.194.98.76:59999 |
| 01:03:49 | bh | btw, I read my quit on a perl book, who am I to disagree with a perl wizard? |
| 01:04:38 | captain_proton | #0 0x40298e32 in std::string::_M_data() const () from /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.2/libstdc++.so.5 |
| 01:04:39 | captain_proton | #1 0x40298e65 in std::string::_M_rep() const () from /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.2/libstdc++.so.5 |
| 01:04:39 | captain_proton | #2 0x4029a295 in std::string::size() const () from /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.2/libstdc++.so.5 |
| 01:04:39 | captain_proton | #3 0x4029c651 in std::string::c_str() const () from /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.2/libstdc++.so.5 |
| 01:04:39 | captain_proton | #4 0x0804c936 in CCloudRenderer::Init(CWorld*, CTextureManager*, CLGETime*) () |
| 01:04:40 | captain_proton | #5 0x08058287 in CBZFlagXL3DRenderer::BuildStaticGeo() () |
| 01:04:42 | captain_proton | #6 0x08058c4a in CBZFlagXL3DRenderer::InitRender() () |
| 01:04:44 | captain_proton | #7 0x0804b85d in CGCasterGameLoop::OnInitGame() () |
| 01:04:46 | captain_proton | #8 0x0804e8ae in main () |
| 01:05:51 | bh | damn |
| 01:06:03 | skiski | hello? |
| 01:06:03 | skiski | where did everyone go? |
| 01:06:03 | Patlabor221 | hell -> handbasket |
| 01:06:03 | skiski | anyone know where bxgirl or bh is? |
| 01:06:04 | | skiski: i'm not following you... |
| 01:06:04 | skiski | ibot see bzgirl |
| 01:06:04 | | bzgirl was last seen on #bzflag 16 minutes and 20 seconds ago, saying: ski1: go to 24.194.98.76 port 59999 green team [Mon Oct 28 17:49:44 2002] |
| 01:06:04 | Patlabor221 | ibot: seen bzgirl |
| 01:06:04 | | bzgirl was last seen on #bzflag 16 minutes and 20 seconds ago, saying: ski1: go to 24.194.98.76 port 59999 green team [Mon Oct 28 17:49:44 2002] |
| 01:06:04 | skiski | ibot: seen bzgirl |
| 01:06:04 | skiski | hmm |
| 01:06:04 | Patlabor221 | poor ibot |
| 01:06:04 | Patlabor221 | ph he's gone |
| 01:06:12 | captain_proton | Patlabor221: why is it segging? |
| 01:06:28 | bzgirl | ski? |
| 01:06:29 | bh | skiski: you are lagged |
| 01:06:31 | bh | 24.194.98.76:59999 |
| 01:06:41 | bh | Ping reply from skiski : 60.11 second(s) |
| 01:07:00 | Patlabor221 | I don't know |
| 01:07:08 | Patlabor221 | it dosn't here |
| 01:07:27 | Patlabor221 | the coluds are puking? |
| 01:07:29 | Patlabor221 | odd |
| 01:07:37 | Patlabor221 | on init |
| 01:08:00 | Patlabor221 | hmm I did notice something odd with the coluds onece |
| 01:08:05 | Patlabor221 | but it didn't puke |
| 01:08:25 | | doughecka: huh? |
| 01:08:25 | doughecka | ibot does though |
| 01:08:29 | bh | ok bye |
| 01:08:30 | captain_proton | thats because invalid memory accesses don't kill you on windows ;) |
| 01:08:31 | doughecka | :) |
| 01:08:32 | Patlabor221 | ohh |
| 01:08:33 | Patlabor221 | ohhh |
| 01:08:40 | Patlabor221 | I see it |
| 01:08:55 | Patlabor221 | change trCloudInfo &rCloudInfo to trCloudInfo rCloudInfo |
| 01:09:04 | Patlabor221 | it dosn't return a ref |
| 01:09:07 | Patlabor221 | it returns a copy |
| 01:09:34 | captain_proton | done that already :P |
| 01:09:41 | Patlabor221 | oh |
| 01:09:43 | Patlabor221 | well crap |
| 01:09:59 | Patlabor221 | what it can't copy the string? |
| 01:10:25 | Patlabor221 | hmm it's the texture list |
| 01:10:30 | captain_proton | its segging inside c_str somehow |
| 01:10:33 | Patlabor221 | must be this line |
| 01:10:34 | Patlabor221 | m_iCloudTexture = m_pTextureManager->GetID((char*)rCloudInfo.vTextureList[0].c_str()); |
| 01:11:08 | Patlabor221 | hmmm |
| 01:11:11 | Patlabor221 | that sould work fine |
| 01:11:20 | Patlabor221 | it's just a typedef std::vector<std::string>tvStringList; |
| 01:11:24 | Patlabor221 | unless it was never set |
| 01:11:28 | Patlabor221 | hmmmmmmmm |
| 01:14:57 | Patlabor221 | here replace that part with this: |
| 01:14:58 | Patlabor221 | tvStringList::iterator itr = rCloudInfo.vTextureList.begin(); |
| 01:14:58 | Patlabor221 | std::stringtexture; |
| 01:14:58 | Patlabor221 | if (itr == rCloudInfo.vTextureList.end()) |
| 01:14:58 | Patlabor221 | texture = "data/Textures/default"; |
| 01:14:59 | Patlabor221 | else |
| 01:15:02 | Patlabor221 | texture = (*itr); |
| 01:15:04 | Patlabor221 | m_iCloudTexture = m_pTextureManager->GetID((char*)(texture.c_str())); |
| 01:15:07 | Patlabor221 | better way to do it |
| 01:15:19 | Patlabor221 | in case it dosn't get set |
| 01:15:35 | captain_proton | replace that line? |
| 01:15:42 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 01:15:45 | Patlabor221 | with those new lines |
| 01:15:47 | Patlabor221 | longer |
| 01:15:50 | Patlabor221 | but better |
| 01:16:07 | Patlabor221 | it's suposed to just get the first texture in the cloud list for now |
| 01:16:10 | captain_proton | k |
| 01:16:28 | Patlabor221 | I was thinking about allowing multiple cloud textures |
| 01:16:33 | Patlabor221 | and randomly using them |
| 01:16:42 | Patlabor221 | I think that would be kinda kewl |
| 01:17:58 | captain_proton | #4 0x0804c936 in CCloudRenderer::Init(CWorld*, CTextureManager*, CLGETime*) (this=0x807e000, pWorld=0x807ea48, pTextureManager=0x807e7c4, pTime=0x807e6c0) at Clouds.cpp:26 |
| 01:17:58 | captain_proton | #5 0x080583cf in CBZFlagXL3DRenderer::BuildStaticGeo() (this=0x807db94) at Renderer.cpp:112 |
| 01:17:58 | captain_proton | #6 0x08058d92 in CBZFlagXL3DRenderer::InitRender() (this=0x807db94) at Renderer.cpp:297 |
| 01:17:58 | captain_proton | #7 0x0804b85d in CGCasterGameLoop::OnInitGame() (this=0x807db68) at BZFlagXL.cpp:122 |
| 01:17:59 | captain_proton | #8 0x0804e9f6 in main () at GameLoop.cpp:37 |
| 01:18:11 | captain_proton | oops |
| 01:18:30 | Patlabor221 | can't you debut that thing to see what the states are when it craps out? |
| 01:18:47 | Patlabor221 | it realy dosn't like those clouds does it |
| 01:20:07 | Patlabor221 | wonder if there is a linux problem with the map reader |
| 01:20:22 | Patlabor221 | did you convert the map to unix LFs? |
| 01:20:43 | captain_proton | no i didn't |
| 01:20:50 | Patlabor221 | I think you should |
| 01:21:01 | Patlabor221 | I open it in text mode |
| 01:21:51 | Patlabor221 | but I don't know if that would cause that problem |
| 01:22:24 | captain_proton | are there supposed to be objects in the map? |
| 01:23:39 | captain_proton | is it supposed to loop the first song over and over? |
| 01:23:50 | doughecka | lol |
| 01:24:10 | captain_proton | btw, this music is grrrrrrrreat |
| 01:24:13 | captain_proton | :) |
| 01:24:23 | doughecka | gags |
| 01:24:33 | Patlabor221 | ohhh yeah figured you would like that too |
| 01:24:40 | Patlabor221 | let me zip the album up for you |
| 01:24:54 | captain_proton | this is -perfect- game music |
| 01:25:07 | doughecka | do ya have the whole album of that egg and you song? |
| 01:25:18 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 01:25:22 | Patlabor221 | it's a 5 CD set |
| 01:25:28 | Patlabor221 | but not all of it's like that |
| 01:25:29 | doughecka | ah |
| 01:25:32 | doughecka | yea |
| 01:25:38 | doughecka | I figured that |
| 01:25:45 | Patlabor221 | I can zip it for you tomorow |
| 01:25:52 | Patlabor221 | it's just from cowbob beebop |
| 01:25:55 | doughecka | not the whole thing! |
| 01:26:04 | Patlabor221 | cap Halo Soundtrack.zip in the FTP |
| 01:26:11 | Patlabor221 | why not it's good |
| 01:26:21 | doughecka | only the songs that are like the egg and you |
| 01:26:32 | captain_proton | ahh i was just reading about its halo-ness |
| 01:26:33 | doughecka | :) |
| 01:26:34 | Patlabor221 | expand your horizons |
| 01:26:41 | doughecka | gags |
| 01:26:54 | Patlabor221 | actualy it's molsy jaz based |
| 01:26:58 | Patlabor221 | so you may like most of it |
| 01:27:00 | doughecka | hmm |
| 01:27:07 | doughecka | maybe.. |
| 01:27:08 | doughecka | :) |
| 01:27:24 | Patlabor221 | you'll like piano black |
| 01:27:34 | Patlabor221 | and rush |
| 01:27:41 | doughecka | hmm, I like piano stuf |
| 01:27:48 | Patlabor221 | and the egg and I |
| 01:28:16 | doughecka | heh |
| 01:28:25 | Patlabor221 | mushroom hunting is good too |
| 01:28:41 | doughecka | I dont like mushrooms... |
| 01:28:43 | doughecka | :P |
| 01:28:58 | doughecka | but wait... mushroom hunting? |
| 01:29:04 | doughecka | bring 'em on! |
| 01:29:08 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 01:29:22 | Patlabor221 | they were hunting them to eat |
| 01:29:25 | Patlabor221 | not for sport |
| 01:29:31 | doughecka | oh |
| 01:29:33 | doughecka | :) |
| 01:30:33 | Patlabor221 | not bad for anime music is it? |
| 01:30:41 | doughecka | hehe |
| 01:30:47 | Patlabor221 | .hack// has good music too |
| 01:30:52 | Patlabor221 | I'll have that this week as well |
| 01:45:21 | ski1 | nsigh |
| 01:45:24 | ski1 | sigh |
| 01:45:32 | ski1 | lol |
| 01:45:33 | doughecka | WRONG! |
| 01:45:34 | doughecka | sighs |
| 01:45:44 | ski1 | heh |
| 01:46:24 | ski1 | well, ive got my ass beatin for today...lol |
| 01:46:24 | doughecka | buwuahahahahaha |
| 01:46:33 | doughecka | 3008 boxes!!! |
| 01:47:37 | doughecka | woo |
| 01:47:54 | Patlabor221 | and now it's time to go |
| 01:48:08 | doughecka | I made a gradent in photoshop and fed it into PNG2BZW |
| 01:48:11 | doughecka | bad bad |
| 01:48:11 | doughecka | :) |
| 01:49:05 | captain_proton | brilliance on a stick there doughecka |
| 01:49:34 | doughecka | lol |
| 02:12:54 | doughecka | BWUAHAHAHA |
| 02:13:02 | doughecka | Tim rikers face in bzflag! |
| 02:13:04 | doughecka | :) |
| 02:13:10 | captain_proton | ? |
| 02:13:38 | doughecka | I stuck BZFlag's face into the PNG2BZW converter, and it now has BZFlag's face.. |
| 02:13:38 | doughecka | :) |
| 02:13:56 | captain_proton | dcc me the world |
| 02:14:02 | doughecka | sure |
| 02:14:43 | doughecka | cant |
| 02:14:51 | doughecka | http://heckaman.bzflag.org |
| 02:14:55 | doughecka | its called map.map |
| 02:15:01 | doughecka | you have to open it in bzedit |
| 02:15:04 | doughecka | too big for bzflag |
| 02:15:15 | doughecka | 5000 boxes |
| 02:15:16 | doughecka | :) |
| 02:15:36 | captain_proton | ...too big for bzflag? |
| 02:15:46 | doughecka | sure... |
| 02:15:52 | doughecka | 5000 boxes.... |
| 02:16:01 | doughecka | you can try... |
| 02:16:06 | doughecka | lemme try |
| 02:22:16 | doughecka | ow |
| 02:22:24 | doughecka | 5000 boxes IS too many for bzflag |
| 02:31:41 | scanline | 5000 boxes == 30000 polygons? |
| 02:31:47 | doughecka | :) |
| 02:31:51 | doughecka | bzflag poops |
| 02:31:56 | scanline | err... |
| 02:32:00 | scanline | 60000 triangles |
| 02:32:03 | doughecka | lol |
| 02:35:28 | doughecka | scanline: you should check it out... pretty neat looking... |
| 02:35:52 | doughecka | is now forming a windows error dialog |
| 02:36:06 | scanline | umm.... |
| 02:36:11 | scanline | hmm |
| 02:36:12 | scanline | bah |
| 02:36:17 | captain_proton | humbug |
| 02:36:17 | doughecka | woo, 100 boxes so far |
| 02:36:23 | doughecka | hehe |
| 02:37:09 | doughecka | 7000 boxes! |
| 02:38:09 | doughecka | needs a linux tux!! |
| 02:38:10 | doughecka | hurry! |
| 02:38:23 | | i guess tux is #tuxboxproject |
| 02:38:23 | doughecka | ibot tux |
| 02:38:26 | doughecka | bah |
| 03:17:38 | | bzfquerylong ducati.bzflag.org 5156 |
| 03:17:38 | [dmp] | ibot ducati |
| 03:17:43 | [dmp] | we |
| 03:17:53 | doughecka | bzfquery ducati.bzflag.org:5156 |
| 03:17:55 | | doughecka: R:9(22-13) G:-16(56-72) DeadMeat(G)-11(91-102) Izto(R:consumption)6(147-141) huh(R:Procrastination Excess)-2(27-29) Walleye(G)-118(78-196) ;-)(G:Procrastination Excess)-2(16-18) High Plains Drifter(R)60(118-58) |
| 03:18:01 | doughecka | :) |
| 03:19:27 | [dmp] | it you think hard enough your wish will come true.. my mother said :-) |
| 03:19:34 | doughecka | lol |
| 03:20:19 | [dmp] | do you know whom i should talk with, if I want to (aid in) creating a CTF-cup/tournament? or at least try to |
| 03:21:10 | doughecka | hmm |
| 03:21:11 | doughecka | dunno |
| 03:21:38 | [dmp] | do you think people would support such idea? |
| 03:21:55 | doughecka | shrugs |
| 03:21:59 | doughecka | who knows? |
| 03:21:59 | doughecka | :) |
| 03:22:05 | [dmp] | i'm trying to create a website about it, but dunno if it's a waste of time :) |
| 03:22:06 | [dmp] | hehe |
| 03:22:07 | [dmp] | not me |
| 03:25:52 | doughecka | yo patlabor22! |
| 03:26:46 | Patlabor221 | sup yo |
| 03:26:56 | doughecka | made a 7000 block map |
| 03:26:58 | doughecka | :) |
| 03:27:02 | doughecka | bzflag barfs on it |
| 03:27:24 | Patlabor221 | you knew that allready |
| 03:27:37 | doughecka | :) |
| 03:27:43 | Patlabor221 | and why did you try to feed it to Tim? |
| 03:28:05 | doughecka | I also took BZFlag's face and made a 3d model of it in bzflag |
| 03:28:08 | doughecka | with 5000 blocks |
| 03:28:27 | doughecka | but bzedit works with it! |
| 03:28:28 | doughecka | :) |
| 03:28:40 | doughecka | http://heckaman.bzflag.org the file is map.map |
| 03:29:39 | Patlabor221 | I don't have the bzedit that dumps XL maps here |
| 03:29:50 | doughecka | ? |
| 03:29:53 | doughecka | what for? |
| 03:32:04 | Patlabor221 | why do you think? |
| 03:32:20 | doughecka | :) |
| 03:32:22 | doughecka | ooh |
| 03:32:40 | doughecka | your gonna convert it to XL so I can see it run in XL? |
| 03:34:24 | Patlabor221 | who said anyting about you? |
| 03:34:27 | Patlabor221 | :) |
| 03:34:47 | captain_proton | haha |
| 03:35:51 | doughecka | lol |
| 03:36:16 | Noodleman | hey doughecka |
| 03:36:23 | doughecka | http://heckaman.bzflag.org the name is map.map |
| 03:36:25 | doughecka | :) |
| 03:36:26 | doughecka | heya |
| 03:36:34 | doughecka | you NEED the bzeditor to read it |
| 03:36:40 | doughecka | bzflag dies on it |
| 03:36:41 | doughecka | :) |
| 03:37:06 | Noodleman | hehe |
| 03:37:09 | Patlabor221 | does it crash? |
| 03:37:11 | Noodleman | i don't have the editor |
| 03:37:13 | Patlabor221 | or just go slow? |
| 03:37:23 | doughecka | also, I have a new map with only 500 blocks in it.... its on stats.bzflag.com now, its at the bottum of the list... |
| 03:37:26 | doughecka | Patlabor221: crash |
| 03:37:35 | Patlabor221 | realllly |
| 03:37:35 | doughecka | Noodleman: hmm |
| 03:37:37 | doughecka | yup |
| 03:37:41 | | doughecka: what? |
| 03:37:41 | doughecka | ibot bzedit32 |
| 03:37:44 | doughecka | gah |
| 03:37:46 | | bzedit is http://jupiter.babylonia.flatirons.org/code/tarballs/bzedit-2.1.tar.gz |
| 03:37:46 | doughecka | ibot bzedit |
| 03:37:49 | doughecka | gah |
| 03:39:52 | Patlabor221 | where do you think it is? |
| 03:39:54 | Noodleman | yeah, but it doesn't compile on my machine :-? |
| 03:39:55 | | i think windows is a trap,...an evil pit of quicksand that conjures people away from being free. A small door to freedom can be found at http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/WindowsPPPHowto http://www.linux.org or http://www.linux.com |
| 03:39:55 | doughecka | Noodleman: windows? |
| 03:39:55 | doughecka | http://www.artemisgames.com/code/bz/edit/ |
| 03:39:55 | Noodleman | no, linux |
| 03:39:55 | doughecka | bah |
| 03:39:55 | doughecka | ;) |
| 03:39:55 | Noodleman | i don't have windows on my machine right now :-) |
| 03:39:55 | doughecka | lol |
| 03:39:55 | doughecka | ok then.. |
| 03:39:55 | Noodleman | you can never tell one week from the next |
| 03:39:55 | doughecka | check out my new map... I am hosting it... |
| 03:39:55 | Noodleman | i can say that i reformat alot :-) |
| 03:39:55 | doughecka | lol |
| 03:39:55 | doughecka | yea |
| 03:39:55 | doughecka | I do that too... |
| 03:39:55 | Noodleman | which server? |
| 03:39:55 | doughecka | heckaman.bzflag.org |
| 03:40:11 | Patlabor221 | should move it just to be funny |
| 03:40:26 | captain_proton | Patlabor221: move what? |
| 03:40:38 | Patlabor221 | edit32 |
| 03:40:55 | Patlabor221 | so that dougs wrong |
| 03:41:02 | captain_proton | ahh |
| 03:44:16 | Noodleman | ok |
| 03:44:47 | doughecka | that wont be nice.. |
| 03:44:50 | doughecka | :) |
| 03:45:26 | Patlabor221 | you think I'm nice? |
| 03:45:34 | doughecka | nope |
| 03:45:45 | doughecka | goes with the safe answer |
| 03:45:48 | Patlabor221 | is 100% real juice. |
| 03:45:53 | Noodleman | but i'm nice |
| 03:45:54 | doughecka | you know if you are nice or not |
| 03:45:54 | Noodleman | hehe |
| 03:45:56 | doughecka | lol |
| 03:46:14 | Noodleman | except in bzflag |
| 03:46:21 | doughecka | Noodleman: does your map files get off of stats.bzflag.org too? |
| 03:46:26 | doughecka | for your server? |
| 03:46:30 | Noodleman | i have no will to be nice after being blown to smitherenes |
| 03:46:36 | doughecka | lol |
| 03:46:45 | Noodleman | no it doesn't |
| 03:46:49 | doughecka | ah |
| 03:46:58 | Noodleman | i want to still get the maps off of my server |
| 03:47:08 | doughecka | then get my new map and put it up on the 100 shot server... |
| 03:47:09 | doughecka | :) |
| 03:47:13 | Noodleman | hehe |
| 03:47:19 | doughecka | fun fun |
| 03:47:23 | | fun is, like, irrelevant |
| 03:47:23 | doughecka | ibot fun |
| 03:47:30 | doughecka | oh, it is huh? |
| 03:47:33 | Noodleman | your map is kinda boring tho :-) |
| 03:47:39 | doughecka | yea... |
| 03:47:39 | Noodleman | sorry |
| 03:47:42 | Noodleman | LOL |
| 03:47:42 | doughecka | but its cool lookin |
| 03:47:43 | doughecka | :) |
| 03:47:48 | doughecka | now I need..... |
| 03:47:57 | doughecka | teleports |
| 03:48:00 | Noodleman | hehe |
| 03:48:04 | doughecka | pyramids... |
| 03:48:12 | doughecka | yea, wait till I get all that setup |
| 03:49:00 | Noodleman | i need to figure out how to make maps |
| 03:49:05 | doughecka | :) |
| 03:49:10 | Noodleman | too complicated :-) |
| 03:49:17 | Noodleman | i can code in perl... |
| 03:49:24 | Noodleman | but i can't make bzflag maps |
| 03:49:30 | Noodleman | i'm one sick puppy |
| 03:49:37 | doughecka | well |
| 03:49:48 | doughecka | blind ambition makes maps with perl |
| 03:49:57 | Noodleman | yeah, i know :-) |
| 03:50:05 | captain_proton | argh |
| 03:50:17 | captain_proton | who gives bubu all the gm's |
| 03:50:21 | Noodleman | whatcha arghing about? |
| 03:50:25 | doughecka | Noodleman: http://heckaman.bzflag.org |
| 03:50:26 | Noodleman | ah |
| 03:50:37 | doughecka | /bzflags |
| 03:50:40 | captain_proton | and why the hell do world designers make platforms that are impossible to jump up to then fill the world with gm??? |
| 03:50:44 | captain_proton | why? WHY? |
| 03:50:48 | doughecka | all the .pl and exe and source are in there |
| 03:51:05 | Patlabor221 | cus they never playtest |
| 03:51:22 | captain_proton | hmm, lemme check who made this world |
| 03:51:27 | Patlabor221 | they just say "ooooo this will look kewl and piss off the players" |
| 03:51:43 | Patlabor221 | makes them feel less "inadiquite" |
| 03:51:51 | doughecka | lol |
| 03:51:57 | Noodleman | yeah, i saw it :-) |
| 03:51:58 | Noodleman | thx |
| 03:52:13 | captain_proton | it was spiff |
| 03:52:14 | captain_proton | no wonder |
| 03:52:17 | Noodleman | hehe |
| 03:52:20 | Patlabor221 | doug mr. I have to have my name on the map even if it slows down :) |
| 03:52:29 | doughecka | lol |
| 03:52:33 | Noodleman | lol |
| 03:52:45 | doughecka | only too true.. |
| 03:52:50 | Noodleman | only too true.. |
| 03:53:13 | doughecka | :) |
| 03:53:17 | Noodleman | :) |
| 03:54:04 | Noodleman | /part |
| 03:54:43 | doughecka | hehe |
| 03:54:51 | Noodleman | just hought i'd try it |
| 03:54:54 | Noodleman | t- |
| 03:58:12 | Patlabor221 | was I on drugz when I wrote this crap? |
| 03:58:21 | doughecka | maybe |
| 03:58:30 | doughecka | kinda hard to tell |
| 03:58:39 | Patlabor221 | what the hell is a "tmVertexFaceMap" |
| 04:00:26 | Patlabor221 | wow. tho I did implement support for reading all the events and sequences from the .UC file |
| 04:00:31 | Patlabor221 | that is kinda cool |
| 04:02:21 | Patlabor221 | is away: Life is like a horse wearing a suit and smoking a cigar: hard to explain. |
| 04:02:38 | doughecka | shrugs and wonders off to bed |
| 04:02:48 | Noodleman | i can't figure out how to change ibot's reply to something |
| 04:03:05 | | doughecka: I forgot reply |
| 04:03:05 | doughecka | ibot forget reply |
| 04:03:09 | | OK, doughecka. |
| 04:03:09 | doughecka | ibot reply is something |
| 04:03:10 | Noodleman | how do i do that? |
| 04:04:05 | Noodleman | but where do i specify what is should reply to? |
| 04:04:07 | Noodleman | it* |
| 04:04:21 | | well, noodleman is making my replacement |
| 04:04:21 | doughecka | ibot noodleman? |
| 04:04:24 | doughecka | well |
| 04:04:29 | | doughecka: I forgot noodleman |
| 04:04:29 | doughecka | ibot forget noodleman |
| 04:04:36 | | OK, doughecka. |
| 04:04:36 | doughecka | ibot noodleman is something |
| 04:04:39 | doughecka | like that |
| 04:04:43 | Noodleman | ok |
| 04:04:50 | doughecka | :) |
| 04:05:34 | | somebody said doughecka was the sheep that went 'Moo'. |
| 04:05:34 | Noodleman | ibot doughecka |
| 04:05:42 | doughecka | :) |
| 04:05:45 | doughecka | WRONG! |
| 04:05:47 | Noodleman | kewl |
| 04:05:48 | Noodleman | hehe |
| 04:05:53 | | doughecka: I forgot doughecka |
| 04:05:53 | doughecka | ibot forget doughecka |
| 04:06:12 | | OK, doughecka. |
| 04:06:12 | doughecka | ibot doughecka is <reply> the CowDog |
| 04:06:16 | | the CowDog |
| 04:06:16 | doughecka | ibot doughecka? |
| 04:10:17 | Noodleman | doughecka: did you know that you PHP code doesn't work on your site? |
| 04:10:27 | doughecka | yea |
| 04:10:32 | doughecka | I need to install php again |
| 04:10:51 | Noodleman | your using windows 2000, right? |
| 04:10:55 | doughecka | XP |
| 04:11:13 | doughecka | ick |
| 04:11:17 | doughecka | its 11:12 |
| 04:11:18 | Noodleman | yeah |
| 04:11:21 | Noodleman | ick :-) |
| 04:11:28 | doughecka | lol |
| 04:11:35 | doughecka | hmm |
| 04:13:35 | Noodleman | brb |
| 04:15:07 | doughecka | hahaha |
| 04:15:16 | doughecka | trying to get xfree running |
| 04:15:24 | doughecka | when I said it had 16 kb of ram |
| 04:15:30 | doughecka | not 16 MEGS of ram... |
| 04:15:38 | doughecka | doh |
| 04:16:47 | doughecka | how do I start a desktop manager in Xfree? |
| 04:16:53 | doughecka | all I get is a X |
| 04:17:07 | Noodleman | which command do you use to start X? |
| 04:17:18 | doughecka | X |
| 04:17:19 | doughecka | :) |
| 04:17:24 | Noodleman | startx is the command |
| 04:17:30 | doughecka | hmm |
| 04:17:39 | doughecka | ah |
| 04:17:45 | Noodleman | does that help? |
| 04:17:46 | Noodleman | hehe |
| 04:18:02 | doughecka | YUP |
| 04:18:06 | doughecka | duuuh |
| 04:18:10 | doughecka | lol |
| 04:18:12 | doughecka | yay |
| 04:18:15 | Patlabor221 | bakka |
| 04:18:15 | doughecka | KDE 3! |
| 04:18:19 | Noodleman | which desktop are you using there? |
| 04:18:22 | Patlabor221 | is back (gone 00:16:00) |
| 04:18:25 | Noodleman | hey kewl! |
| 04:18:31 | doughecka | the latest |
| 04:18:43 | Noodleman | i like kde 3 |
| 04:18:46 | doughecka | yea |
| 04:18:49 | doughecka | I need aqua! |
| 04:18:50 | Noodleman | i like gnome 2 |
| 04:18:59 | Noodleman | brb |
| 04:19:02 | Patlabor221 | the new gome is kewl too |
| 04:19:11 | doughecka | yea |
| 04:19:17 | doughecka | I need it installed |
| 04:20:39 | Noodleman | here's your aqua... |
| 04:20:41 | Noodleman | http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=153 |
| 04:20:52 | doughecka | oooh |
| 04:20:54 | doughecka | nice |
| 04:20:59 | doughecka | ick |
| 04:21:01 | doughecka | no sound... |
| 04:21:10 | doughecka | wonders how to get it working |
| 04:21:15 | doughecka | mandrake worked fine... |
| 04:21:25 | Noodleman | you're on your own with debian :-) |
| 04:21:36 | Noodleman | that's why i don't like debian |
| 04:21:37 | doughecka | lol |
| 04:21:39 | doughecka | nah |
| 04:21:42 | doughecka | its easy |
| 04:21:49 | Noodleman | you have to do everything manually |
| 04:22:02 | doughecka | it took forever, but once it downloaded everything, it was all up2date |
| 04:22:03 | Noodleman | i do like apt, tho |
| 04:22:04 | doughecka | nah |
| 04:22:09 | doughecka | it has menus and stuff |
| 04:22:19 | Patlabor221 | looks just like the windows XP aqua theme |
| 04:22:21 | doughecka | no auto detect, but it has "wizards" |
| 04:22:28 | doughecka | Patlabor221: yea.... |
| 04:22:34 | Noodleman | well, yeah, but no configuration tools |
| 04:22:55 | Noodleman | redhat auto-detects your hardware |
| 04:23:02 | doughecka | yea... |
| 04:23:07 | doughecka | hmm |
| 04:23:17 | Patlabor221 | and it just tupping works |
| 04:23:17 | Noodleman | you don't have to manually edit your /etc/modules.conf |
| 04:23:22 | Noodleman | hehe |
| 04:23:23 | doughecka | I need drivers for this "sound" card |
| 04:23:29 | | which card are xou using? |
| 04:23:29 | Noodleman | which card? |
| 04:23:35 | | doughecka: huh? |
| 04:23:35 | doughecka | ibot shutup! |
| 04:23:39 | | Sorry, doughecka, I'll keep my mouth shut. |
| 04:23:39 | doughecka | ibot shut up |
| 04:23:40 | | Sorry, Patlabor221, I'll keep my mouth shut. |
| 04:23:40 | Patlabor221 | ibot shut up |
| 04:23:50 | doughecka | its a onboard sound |
| 04:23:53 | doughecka | mandrake worked |
| 04:23:54 | Patlabor221 | the motherboard stuff |
| 04:23:58 | Noodleman | which chipset? |
| 04:24:01 | Patlabor221 | SIS |
| 04:24:07 | doughecka | I bet |
| 04:24:13 | Patlabor221 | or is this a difrent mobo doug? |
| 04:24:22 | doughecka | this is my friends computer |
| 04:24:23 | Patlabor221 | is it the XP? |
| 04:24:23 | Noodleman | not the mobo, the sound chipset |
| 04:24:29 | doughecka | I dunno whats in it |
| 04:24:33 | doughecka | no |
| 04:24:36 | doughecka | its the duron |
| 04:24:36 | Patlabor221 | what is it? |
| 04:24:40 | doughecka | I dont know... |
| 04:24:42 | Patlabor221 | what mobo? |
| 04:24:46 | Patlabor221 | oh |
| 04:24:49 | Noodleman | doug's all whacked up... |
| 04:24:51 | Noodleman | LOL |
| 04:24:52 | Patlabor221 | ether SIS |
| 04:24:53 | doughecka | :) |
| 04:24:54 | Patlabor221 | or via |
| 04:24:58 | doughecka | I bet its SIS |
| 04:25:04 | doughecka | how do I check in software? |
| 04:25:04 | Patlabor221 | you know it does say when it boots |
| 04:25:24 | Patlabor221 | in a real os, plug and play would detect it |
| 04:25:40 | doughecka | lol |
| 04:25:45 | Noodleman | do a 'less /proc/pci' |
| 04:25:52 | doughecka | oh my |
| 04:25:55 | Noodleman | yeah, like redhat :-P |
| 04:25:55 | doughecka | its a VIA |
| 04:26:06 | doughecka | host bridge VIA... |
| 04:26:10 | doughecka | PCI bridge VIA |
| 04:26:12 | Noodleman | that should tell you what your pci devices are |
| 04:26:30 | doughecka | hmm |
| 04:26:41 | doughecka | its... |
| 04:26:47 | Noodleman | my audio controller is an Ensoniq ES1371 [AudioPCI-97] |
| 04:26:49 | Noodleman | it says |
| 04:26:52 | doughecka | FIRST INTERNATIONAL computer Inc. |
| 04:26:56 | doughecka | shrugs |
| 04:26:57 | Noodleman | hehe |
| 04:27:09 | doughecka | looks for his ISA sound blaster |
| 04:27:13 | Patlabor221 | it's a KT133 proalby |
| 04:27:29 | doughecka | most likly... |
| 04:27:41 | Patlabor221 | if it's a via northbridge then it will do sound |
| 04:27:43 | Noodleman | /msg me with the contents of your /proc/pci |
| 04:27:48 | doughecka | querys Patlabor221 about that drive.... |
| 04:27:50 | doughecka | Noodleman: cant |
| 04:27:53 | doughecka | diferent PC |
| 04:27:59 | Noodleman | oh yeah :-) |
| 04:27:59 | doughecka | too much to type :) |
| 04:28:16 | Patlabor221 | net |
| 04:28:24 | Patlabor221 | I haven't sent it |
| 04:28:28 | doughecka | ah |
| 04:28:46 | doughecka | VIA AC97 audio controller |
| 04:28:47 | Noodleman | brb |
| 04:29:21 | Patlabor221 | there you go |
| 04:29:22 | Noodleman | do a 'modprobe via82cxxx_audio' |
| 04:29:24 | Patlabor221 | they all use that |
| 04:29:30 | doughecka | k |
| 04:29:31 | Noodleman | that should be what you need |
| 04:29:32 | Noodleman | brb |
| 04:30:07 | doughecka | not a valid module |
| 04:32:33 | doughecka | southbridge is VT82C686 |
| 04:34:08 | doughecka | hmm |
| 04:34:10 | doughecka | bed time |
| 04:34:13 | doughecka | is away: bed |
| 04:36:23 | Noodleman | i guess i'll be off too |
| 04:36:29 | Noodleman | l8r d00dZ |
| 04:36:49 | doughecka | cya |
| 04:37:05 | Noodleman | is off (as if anyone cared hehe ) |
| 05:22:27 | Patlabor221 | bugger all |
| 05:22:36 | Patlabor221 | goes back to the drawing board. |
| 07:03:28 | captain_proton | gah |
| 07:03:31 | captain_proton | bzflag is so boring |
| 07:03:46 | captain_proton | my only entertainment is irrititating spiff |
| 07:04:34 | MrApathyCream | captain_proton: 1.8's new VM is not boring |
| 07:12:59 | MrApathyCream | So can we get a concensus that the 1.8 dev path is a flawed plan |
| 07:13:53 | captain_proton | what do you suggest we replace it with? |
| 07:15:24 | captain_proton | because just agreeing its a flawed plan does jack squat |
| 07:17:05 | MrApathyCream | go back to 1.7e6 and be more evolutionary |
| 07:17:11 | MrApathyCream | always keep it in a shippable state |
| 07:17:23 | MrApathyCream | doesn't mean we can't break net protocol |
| 07:17:30 | MrApathyCream | but it should at least work at all times |
| 07:17:40 | captain_proton | evolutionary doesn't work when we want to completely replace the netcode, or the physics, etc |
| 07:18:08 | captain_proton | it still involves one person doing a huge patch at once |
| 07:18:16 | MrApathyCream | bah, i disagree |
| 07:18:21 | MrApathyCream | first, why change the physics |
| 07:18:32 | captain_proton | because the existing world are BORING as hell |
| 07:18:32 | MrApathyCream | 2) network changes can be made incrementally |
| 07:18:50 | captain_proton | and the physics we've got won't work for anything more interesting |
| 07:18:56 | MrApathyCream | boring is a great game that is has stagnant development |
| 07:19:26 | captain_proton | what motivation do i have to work on something that i'm bored with? |
| 07:19:50 | MrApathyCream | apparently as much or more than you do currently |
| 07:20:04 | MrApathyCream | as nothing is being done now on this 'great' plan |
| 07:20:21 | captain_proton | i tried working on it, and i got horribly frustrated being the only developer |
| 07:20:45 | MrApathyCream | honest question: why are you the only developer? |
| 07:21:19 | captain_proton | for about a month i was the only one submitting code, with you updating the windows stuff so it would build |
| 07:21:35 | MrApathyCream | yes i agree, but why was that? |
| 07:21:50 | captain_proton | because you, chestal, riker & company are lazy biotches? :) |
| 07:22:05 | scanline | hehe |
| 07:22:21 | MrApathyCream | no, because the edict was, where going to make massive, giant, changes to bzflag, |
| 07:22:31 | MrApathyCream | --read-- don't bother doing anything until this step is completed |
| 07:22:40 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: that doesn't mean you couldn't be evolving stuff |
| 07:23:07 | MrApathyCream | it's silly to right something when you know the underlying platform is completly changing |
| 07:23:09 | captain_proton | i was evolving stuff and doing fine at it |
| 07:23:13 | MrApathyCream | s/right/write/ |
| 07:23:34 | captain_proton | i think we've got some good stuff going on with 1.8 |
| 07:23:39 | MrApathyCream | we do? |
| 07:23:54 | captain_proton | yeah, the new rendering engine is a really nice architecture |
| 07:23:56 | | no checkins this week, sorry |
| 07:23:56 | MrApathyCream | ibot, cvs history? |
| 07:24:12 | captain_proton | what i feel we need is a -group- decision to work on the big things |
| 07:24:21 | captain_proton | not to say 'rikers doing this' or whatever |
| 07:24:26 | captain_proton | break cvs! |
| 07:24:41 | captain_proton | have everyone commit code, get the networking ripped out |
| 07:24:49 | MrApathyCream | That's the thing tho, these massive changes you know MUST be done by riker or crs |
| 07:24:54 | captain_proton | why? |
| 07:24:55 | MrApathyCream | And they're way to busy at this point |
| 07:25:10 | captain_proton | are you completely incapable of writing netcode? |
| 07:26:15 | MrApathyCream | no, but (1) no one knows what we really want to do (2) as 'boss', rikers the one to do it |
| 07:26:23 | captain_proton | thats silly |
| 07:26:31 | captain_proton | lets get some real discussions going on about what we want to do |
| 07:26:57 | captain_proton | get an architecture doc written, and have everybody start hacking |
| 07:27:10 | captain_proton | (architecture being for a smaller component, like netcode) |
| 07:27:19 | MrApathyCream | if it was that easy it would've happened in the last 6 months |
| 07:28:21 | captain_proton | it IS that easy |
| 07:28:43 | captain_proton | the reason it hasn't happened is because we've all been telling ourselves that riker would find time somewhere, or crs would renew his interest |
| 07:28:49 | MrApathyCream | holds his quite massive belly, rolls his head back and gafawws |
| 07:30:59 | captain_proton | BZFlag: will your ego be bruised if we did the netcode? |
| 07:33:20 | MrApathyCream | last on 3hrs ago |
| 07:34:45 | MrApathyCream | *sigh*, back to e6 |
| 07:34:53 | captain_proton | why back to e6? |
| 07:35:02 | captain_proton | or, you mean playing e6? |
| 07:35:05 | MrApathyCream | it's the only thing that works |
| 07:41:46 | captain_proton | here's a question for ya |
| 07:42:01 | captain_proton | if you want to use an evolutionary model, why should we drop back to 1.7? |
| 07:57:11 | MrApathyCream | i'm a firm believer in open source development, the 'xtreme programming' model is the only one that really works |
| 07:57:20 | MrApathyCream | -not that i'm a zealot or anything |
| 07:57:50 | captain_proton | xtreme programming...hmmm...you mean you need to sit here with me as we write code? |
| 07:58:01 | MrApathyCream | well, that's just part of it |
| 07:58:10 | MrApathyCream | mostly, that the code is always shippable |
| 07:58:58 | MrApathyCream | In the corp world, you can use 'chuck and duck' programming, cause people are glued to their seats |
| 07:59:14 | MrApathyCream | and getting paid to fix the mess that happens when you pull stuff apart |
| 07:59:31 | MrApathyCream | but in a spare time community, i don't think it works |
| 08:01:05 | captain_proton | here's my concern: 1.7 right now is a steaming pile of crufty hacks |
| 08:01:42 | captain_proton | adding more crufty hacks on top of it is going to make it so painful to work with that nobody will even -consider- doing anything to it |
| 08:02:29 | MrApathyCream | rats |
| 08:02:53 | captain_proton | unless we replace things from an architecture standpoint, 1.8 will never happen |
| 08:03:13 | MrApathyCream | I'm not saying we shouldn't replace architectural stuff |
| 08:03:22 | MrApathyCream | Just don't break it for months |
| 08:03:23 | captain_proton | if it were up to me i'd say start over completely, but riker indicated no |
| 08:03:42 | MrApathyCream | And do it slowly a small piece at a time |
| 08:03:46 | scanline | You could use my strategy of completely rewriting a major subsystem every few weeks :) |
| 08:03:50 | captain_proton | its impossible to do it slowly a small piece of the time |
| 08:03:58 | MrApathyCream | no it's not |
| 08:04:08 | captain_proton | yes, in fact, it is |
| 08:04:21 | captain_proton | take this example: crs rewriting the rendering engine |
| 08:04:47 | captain_proton | the changes he had to make broke a huge number of things, a lot of which still aren't in 1.8 |
| 08:05:02 | MrApathyCream | yup, in my opinion a bad decision |
| 08:05:21 | captain_proton | so what do we do then? rewrite small little portions of a rendering engine that has a wholly bad architecture? |
| 08:05:32 | MrApathyCream | unless he was willing to fix everything he broke in a timely fashion |
| 08:05:37 | captain_proton | you can't replace the whole by changing out the little parts |
| 08:06:19 | MrApathyCream | now we're stuck with a mess, and a new set of code that no one really knows... ok cappy does |
| 08:06:27 | MrApathyCream | but you get the point |
| 08:06:44 | captain_proton | even i don't really |
| 08:07:01 | captain_proton | and thats because crs did a somewhat bad thing by being himself and writing major portions without telling anyone |
| 08:07:05 | MrApathyCream | Let's take netcode, what do we want it to be? and how can we get there incrementally? |
| 08:07:18 | MrApathyCream | captain_proton: agreed |
| 08:07:32 | captain_proton | well, we need an underlying layer thats all-UDP |
| 08:07:33 | MrApathyCream | We don't have to rewrite the whole thing |
| 08:07:57 | MrApathyCream | Ok, how bout, just using the same protocol (packets) except use udp |
| 08:08:02 | MrApathyCream | as a first step |
| 08:08:11 | MrApathyCream | RULE 1: It's got to work all the way through |
| 08:08:17 | captain_proton | then things break |
| 08:08:18 | captain_proton | a lot |
| 08:08:26 | captain_proton | because you lose things like MsgAlive |
| 08:08:38 | MrApathyCream | explain |
| 08:08:47 | captain_proton | UDP never ensures packet delivery |
| 08:08:51 | MrApathyCream | ok |
| 08:08:53 | MrApathyCream | gotcah |
| 08:09:04 | captain_proton | it just sends it out and hopes it gets there |
| 08:09:23 | MrApathyCream | How bout we get rid of MsgAlive, and use MsgPlayerUpdate to signify liveness |
| 08:09:25 | captain_proton | which is good from a gameplay standpoint, you don't want the slowness of TCP when you're just going to send out another update in a few ms |
| 08:09:53 | captain_proton | the server uses MsgPlayerUpdate to determine NR status |
| 08:10:07 | captain_proton | which would mean players go NR whenever they're dead |
| 08:10:38 | captain_proton | but the underlying layer can be ripped apart without too much impact on the rest |
| 08:10:51 | captain_proton | whats more important from an architecture standpoint is consolidating the netcode |
| 08:10:51 | MrApathyCream | So what are you saying, we need to build reliable layer on udp? |
| 08:11:01 | captain_proton | yeah, which is what tim had planned |
| 08:11:12 | MrApathyCream | what's the advantage to reliable udp over tcp |
| 08:11:18 | captain_proton | right now the source is a mess, full of nboPackInt, nboPackShort, nboPackSquirrel, etc |
| 08:11:39 | MrApathyCream | as opposed to nboPackObject? |
| 08:12:01 | captain_proton | well, why are we exposing byte order stuff and send packets all over the code? |
| 08:12:09 | MrApathyCream | i agree |
| 08:12:21 | MrApathyCream | So each message is a class that has a pack method? |
| 08:12:22 | captain_proton | create a consolidated set of functions - SendMsgAlive(takes in whatever args are sent in the MsgAlive packet) |
| 08:12:45 | captain_proton | then the underlying layer can decide when to send it, which packets it should go in, etc |
| 08:13:13 | MrApathyCream | ok, that's fine, |
| 08:13:20 | MrApathyCream | but that's just code cleanup |
| 08:13:22 | captain_proton | lemme type up a short set of requirements that i feel the network layer needs |
| 08:14:30 | MrApathyCream | k |
| 08:14:55 | MrApathyCream | waits by patting his head, whilst rubbing his belly |
| 08:16:31 | captain_proton | single-port communication |
| 08:16:32 | captain_proton | packet combination |
| 08:16:32 | captain_proton | throttling |
| 08:16:32 | captain_proton | clean interface |
| 08:16:32 | captain_proton | some form of reliable transport (tcp, reliable-over-udp, etc) |
| 08:17:47 | scanline | what's the point of building a reliable layer over udp? |
| 08:18:15 | scanline | why not use udp for position updates and such, and tcp for messages that must get there intact? |
| 08:18:25 | MrApathyCream | sc |
| 08:18:30 | MrApathyCream | scanline: that's what we do now |
| 08:18:48 | MrApathyCream | scanline: but your basic point is a question i have too |
| 08:18:51 | scanline | ah. so is anything wrong with it? |
| 08:19:26 | MrApathyCream | i don't get the point of building reliable udp |
| 08:19:39 | captain_proton | eliminates another socket, allows us to 'filter' people with firewall problems |
| 08:19:56 | scanline | captain_proton: bah |
| 08:20:04 | captain_proton | the socket issue is trivial |
| 08:20:19 | scanline | captain_proton: IMHO, working around a few people's crufty firewalls is not justification to reinvent TCP |
| 08:21:02 | captain_proton | scanline: yell at BZFlag, he's the one that came up with it |
| 08:21:12 | scanline | hrmph |
| 08:21:26 | captain_proton | its not an issue of working around firewalls, its more an issue of that people connect to a server, go not-responding and start shooting people |
| 08:21:46 | captain_proton | solvable in other ways too i suppose |
| 08:22:28 | MrApathyCream | single port is nice, tho |
| 08:22:41 | scanline | You could use the same port number, on both TCP and UDP |
| 08:22:50 | MrApathyCream | true |
| 08:23:39 | MrApathyCream | i think a sister problem to the network arch is having the server do more of the work |
| 08:23:46 | captain_proton | yes |
| 08:23:48 | MrApathyCream | such as kill detection |
| 08:24:55 | scanline | darn you people getting me interested in game programming again when I have a text editing engine to debug... |
| 08:25:12 | MrApathyCream | now that is the essence of fun |
| 08:25:46 | captain_proton | server work is independent though, we can do network without thinking about it |
| 08:25:52 | MrApathyCream | dreams of devising cool architectures for keeping line starts |
| 08:25:58 | captain_proton | when it comes time, we can add/delete the relevant mesgs |
| 08:26:00 | MrApathyCream | captain_proton: yes |
| 08:26:31 | scanline | MrApathyCream: patches welcome :) |
| 08:26:32 | MrApathyCream | so the question is what do we want? What's bad/wrong/slow about the current design? |
| 08:26:47 | MrApathyCream | scanline: heh |
| 08:27:11 | captain_proton | well, we don't do packet combination |
| 08:27:24 | captain_proton | and we have throttling kludged on top of 1.7 but its pretty dirty |
| 08:27:51 | captain_proton | 1.7 also has the server reconnect |
| 08:28:03 | MrApathyCream | does e6 still reconnect? |
| 08:28:14 | captain_proton | has to, 1.7 maintains compatibility |
| 08:28:26 | MrApathyCream | well that would be simple to replace |
| 08:28:38 | captain_proton | i believe tim already got rid of the reconnect in 1.8 |
| 08:28:50 | MrApathyCream | yes, that's right, that's what i was thinking of |
| 08:29:25 | captain_proton | here's my idea for how to do combination & throttling all in one: |
| 08:29:47 | captain_proton | the SendBlah functions add a packet request into a queue |
| 08:29:56 | MrApathyCream | wait |
| 08:30:00 | captain_proton | waits |
| 08:30:04 | MrApathyCream | is this client to server, server to client, or both |
| 08:30:20 | captain_proton | client to client |
| 08:30:25 | captain_proton | this is for UDP-only |
| 08:30:45 | MrApathyCream | udp's not going to the server? |
| 08:30:49 | captain_proton | well it is |
| 08:30:59 | captain_proton | but it can be considered a client in this sense |
| 08:31:06 | MrApathyCream | k, gotcha |
| 08:31:08 | MrApathyCream | go on |
| 08:31:33 | captain_proton | ok, every 30th of a second or so, the udp-net function runs through the queue |
| 08:31:51 | captain_proton | if there are duplicate messages, it discards all but the last one |
| 08:32:17 | captain_proton | then it combines the whole thing into one packet and sends it off |
| 08:32:56 | MrApathyCream | k |
| 08:33:32 | captain_proton | reliable messages are sent out depending on their type |
| 08:33:37 | MrApathyCream | who does this 'running the q and send'? main loop, or separate thread |
| 08:33:54 | MrApathyCream | slow framerates would vote against main loop |
| 08:33:54 | captain_proton | i'd like to see a separate thread |
| 08:34:00 | MrApathyCream | yes me too |
| 08:34:19 | captain_proton | as we rewrite stuff we can pull off into individual threads |
| 08:35:39 | MrApathyCream | how bout the server, how does it work? n messages in m messages out: each target client has a q? |
| 08:36:16 | captain_proton | well the server should never be sending emphemeral messages, only vital ones |
| 08:36:39 | MrApathyCream | playerupdate, shotbegin, end, etc |
| 08:36:43 | captain_proton | since clients recieve all the game data from the other clients |
| 08:37:31 | captain_proton | and just about all of the vital messages are asynchronous |
| 08:37:45 | MrApathyCream | your saying some messages are going from client to client without the server, meaning clients need to know ips? |
| 08:37:58 | captain_proton | yeah |
| 08:39:46 | MrApathyCream | clients are sending broadcast udp then? |
| 08:39:59 | MrApathyCream | (meaning multiple receivers?) |
| 08:39:59 | captain_proton | broadcast only goes to the local subnet |
| 08:40:13 | captain_proton | clients would be unicast UDP for now (like it is already) |
| 08:40:26 | MrApathyCream | i don't mean multicast, i just mean udp to everyone (in a loop) |
| 08:41:08 | MrApathyCream | won't that increase the load on client machines (esp 56k-ers?) |
| 08:41:09 | captain_proton | unicast = 1 packet, one host. broadcast = 1 packet, many hosts on the subnet. multicast = 1 packet, multiple hosts on the internet |
| 08:41:19 | captain_proton | well, we use unicast UDP already |
| 08:41:32 | MrApathyCream | yes one packet to the server, then server sends to all.. |
| 08:41:42 | MrApathyCream | i hear you saying client sends one packet to many clients |
| 08:41:47 | captain_proton | and since throttling & combination will reduce traffic, it'll work |
| 08:42:15 | captain_proton | if we do client->server->clients, we double the chances for packet loss and exponentially increase the load on the server |
| 08:42:53 | captain_proton | someone shouldn't need a T3 to run a game for 5 people |
| 08:44:29 | MrApathyCream | yes, but your increasing the load on the client by 10 fold possibly |
| 08:44:41 | captain_proton | its not 'increasing' it at all |
| 08:44:44 | captain_proton | this is what we currently do |
| 08:45:14 | MrApathyCream | ? |
| 08:45:42 | captain_proton | right now, clients have a list of all the other clients, and they send udp packets to each host in that list |
| 08:46:01 | MrApathyCream | really? i didn't know that |
| 08:46:06 | captain_proton | (frank's fault, before him it was tcp, everything routed through the server) |
| 08:46:10 | MrApathyCream | checks |
| 08:46:17 | scanline | wow, it's snowing |
| 08:46:25 | MrApathyCream | canada? |
| 08:46:34 | captain_proton | he tried to add udp multicast but it was ripped out in the middle of e5 (iirc) because multicast over the internet doesn't really work with ipv4 |
| 08:46:46 | scanline | MrApathyCream: maybe, but it's also snowing here |
| 08:47:09 | bomber | moin |
| 08:48:53 | captain_proton | ooh ouch, someone in my digital class has a 30% |
| 08:49:18 | Pinguin | moin bomber |
| 08:49:29 | MrApathyCream | captain_proton: don't we use ServerRelay always? |
| 08:49:59 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: where are you looking |
| 08:50:14 | MrApathyCream | PlayerLink::send |
| 08:50:44 | MrApathyCream | scanline: ah, colorado |
| 08:53:56 | MrApathyCream | cappy? |
| 08:54:36 | captain_proton | is looking |
| 08:54:48 | captain_proton | (what a mess) |
| 08:54:53 | MrApathyCream | :) |
| 08:55:07 | scanline | captain_proton: don't like snow? :) |
| 08:55:47 | captain_proton | slaps scanline with a half-multicast half-relay half-unicast system |
| 08:56:08 | scanline | slaps captain_proton with some incorrect line numbers in valgrind's output |
| 08:56:27 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: it looks like we've still got multicast in 1.7... |
| 08:56:30 | captain_proton | ponders |
| 08:56:49 | MrApathyCream | points at captain_proton and nods |
| 08:57:31 | captain_proton | hahaha |
| 08:57:39 | captain_proton | int openMulticast() { |
| 08:57:45 | captain_proton | // Multicast is broken |
| 08:57:45 | captain_proton | return -1; |
| 08:57:45 | captain_proton | } |
| 08:58:11 | captain_proton | i guess we're using server relay :) |
| 08:58:24 | captain_proton | bangs his head against the desk |
| 08:59:00 | MrApathyCream | finds the 'thud' sound particularly soothing |
| 09:00:06 | captain_proton | ummm |
| 09:00:15 | captain_proton | openMulticast is written to fail |
| 09:00:23 | captain_proton | and there are no calls to openUDPNetwork |
| 09:00:50 | MrApathyCream | yup yup |
| 09:01:58 | MrApathyCream | ServerLink _does_ use udp to server |
| 09:02:11 | captain_proton | yukyuk |
| 09:03:16 | MrApathyCream | what do other games do, and are we different? |
| 09:03:32 | captain_proton | other games do everything |
| 09:03:40 | captain_proton | udp unicast, multicast, relay, tcp |
| 09:04:03 | captain_proton | there's no 'right answer' |
| 09:04:07 | captain_proton | at least until ipv6 comes out |
| 09:04:13 | captain_proton | then everything will be multicast |
| 09:04:29 | MrApathyCream | Question: Which will be released first BZFlag 1.8 or ipv6? |
| 09:04:42 | BZFlag | bbot: insule MrApathyCream |
| 09:04:45 | bbot | BZFlag: are you smoking crack? |
| 09:04:46 | BZFlag | bbot: insult MrApathyCream |
| 09:04:47 | captain_proton | ipv6 is already out, its just not ubiquitous |
| 09:04:49 | bbot | MrApathyCream is nothing but a squishy accumulation of impertinent squirrel guts. |
| 09:04:56 | MrApathyCream | heh |
| 09:05:02 | BZFlag | bbot: BZFlag is Tim Riker |
| 09:05:02 | bbot | BZFlag: okay |
| 09:05:08 | BZFlag | bbot lock BZFlag |
| 09:05:09 | captain_proton | BZFlag: whom is bbot? |
| 09:05:09 | bbot | locking factoid bzflag, BZFlag |
| 09:05:17 | BZFlag | bbot: bzflag? |
| 09:05:17 | bbot | i heard bzflag is Tim Riker |
| 09:05:26 | BZFlag | bbot factinfo bzflag |
| 09:05:27 | bbot | bzflag -- created by BZFlag <timr@rikers.org> 24s ago; it has been requested once, last by BZFlag, 9s ago; it has been locked by BZFlag. |
| 09:05:53 | BZFlag | bbot will be the new ibot once I get the kinks out. |
| 09:05:54 | bbot | BZFlag: are you smoking crack? |
| 09:06:05 | captain_proton | bbot: shut up |
| 09:06:05 | bbot | captain_proton: I don't know, could you explain it? |
| 09:06:06 | MrApathyCream | heh |
| 09:06:25 | captain_proton | BZFlag: care to join in the melee? :P |
| 09:06:32 | BZFlag | bbot: 1 + 3 ** 4 |
| 09:06:32 | bbot | 82 |
| 09:06:36 | MrApathyCream | bbot, cvs history? |
| 09:06:37 | bbot | sorry, no checkins this week |
| 09:06:43 | MrApathyCream | see even bbot knows |
| 09:06:52 | captain_proton | sees the discussion disappear |
| 09:07:02 | BZFlag | bbot: info bzflag |
| 09:07:04 | bbot | bzflag: (a 3D first person tank battle game), section games, is optional. Version: 1.7e6 (sid), Packaged size: 1981 kB, Installed size: 3248 kB |
| 09:07:42 | captain_proton | breaks down and begins to sob |
| 09:07:58 | BZFlag | name another game that does multicast. |
| 09:08:19 | MrApathyCream | offers captain_proton a box of jelly donuts |
| 09:08:37 | captain_proton | BZFlag: the dancing turtles |
| 09:08:44 | MrApathyCream | and Mr Wiggle |
| 09:09:01 | BZFlag | is doubtful. |
| 09:09:18 | BZFlag | multicast sucks on the internet cause nobody is connected. |
| 09:09:18 | captain_proton | i'm not saying we should do multicast now |
| 09:09:36 | captain_proton | i'm saying once ipv6 is ubiquitous, multicast makes sense |
| 09:09:41 | BZFlag | in ipv6 there should be multicast. agreed. |
| 09:10:03 | MrApathyCream | the discussion was what to do about netcode, among other things |
| 09:10:17 | captain_proton | BZFlag: why in the world did you want to reinvent TCP? it seems rediculous to me now |
| 09:10:33 | MrApathyCream | nods supportively |
| 09:10:36 | BZFlag | but bzflag over ipv6 at present would suck big time. anyone that was playing would be routing through extra machines just to get there. |
| 09:10:53 | captain_proton | waits for BZFlag to move on |
| 09:11:32 | BZFlag | captain_proton: tcp is not fast enough. udp is not reliable. tcp+udp is sending more packets than needed. |
| 09:11:44 | MrApathyCream | how is reliable udp better than tcp |
| 09:11:55 | MrApathyCream | a 'developed' reliable-udp |
| 09:12:08 | BZFlag | if syn and ack packets would send data as well as meta info, I'd be happy. |
| 09:12:51 | BZFlag | tcp also has the slow start issues. |
| 09:12:58 | BZFlag | not good for gaming. |
| 09:13:48 | captain_proton | once net is consolidated we can add reliable udp later if you ever implement it BZFlag :P |
| 09:14:09 | BZFlag | heh |
| 09:14:50 | captain_proton | for now i think the biggest thing is hiding the actual packet structure |
| 09:15:04 | captain_proton | and getting rid of all the damn nboPackSquirrels |
| 09:15:22 | MrApathyCream | captain_proton: we should be careful to do major changes for no performance gain, imo |
| 09:15:44 | MrApathyCream | While it would be nice, given the tepid developer interest, we should do stuff that actually has impact |
| 09:15:50 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: i think a clean architecture and a clean codebase is a damn good reason to do major changes |
| 09:16:20 | captain_proton | if all the network stuff is hidden, it will be easier to swap out things like reliable-udp for tcp, etc |
| 09:16:47 | BZFlag | client should merge packets better. any udp packet with a shot should contain a movement update. |
| 09:17:01 | MrApathyCream | yes i'm all for code cleanup, but a cleaned up code base, isn't sparking any new user base |
| 09:17:10 | BZFlag | and the dead reconning should then get reset. |
| 09:17:50 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: what can we do to attract new users at this point? |
| 09:18:16 | MrApathyCream | better gaming experience. fast, more playable, more flags |
| 09:18:24 | captain_proton | imo we're nearly at the point where the codebase is so messy its impossible to add new features |
| 09:18:47 | BZFlag | cheat protection. |
| 09:18:47 | MrApathyCream | i don't see cappy having any problems codeing 1.7 |
| 09:19:00 | MrApathyCream | even if his sensibilities are hurt |
| 09:19:06 | captain_proton | just adding the useless flag took 20 minutes |
| 09:19:23 | MrApathyCream | yes but you were watching 'girls gone wild' on tv at the tiem |
| 09:19:47 | BZFlag | bbot insult 'girls gone wild' |
| 09:19:50 | bbot | 'girls gone wild' is nothing but a tofu-nibbling ooze of currish dung. |
| 09:20:10 | captain_proton | here's a conundrum: |
| 09:20:17 | MrApathyCream | i frankly find it easier to code against 1.7 than 1.8 |
| 09:20:23 | captain_proton | is the 1.8 codebase really too crufty to evolve? MrApathyCream says yes |
| 09:20:27 | captain_proton | i'm undecided |
| 09:20:48 | captain_proton | BZFlag: what is your opinion? |
| 09:21:13 | BZFlag | captain_proton: if I had the time I do a complete rewrite. thing is I don't have the time. |
| 09:21:44 | MrApathyCream | I think 1.8 is so broken at this point, we have no momentum. No one enjoys implementing stuff that was working before, let alone do new stuff |
| 09:22:13 | captain_proton | i was saying earlier we ought to rewrite |
| 09:22:25 | captain_proton | say, a year and a half ago :P |
| 09:22:30 | MrApathyCream | i would evolve 1.7, always keeping it in shippable state |
| 09:25:05 | MrApathyCream | adds conundrum to personal vocabulary |
| 09:26:01 | BZFlag | bbot dict conundrum |
| 09:26:03 | bbot | Dictionary 'conundrum' a difficult problem [syn: {riddle}, {enigma}, {brain-teaser}] |
| 09:26:18 | BZFlag | bbot spell conundrum |
| 09:26:33 | MrApathyCream | are you on crack? |
| 09:26:38 | MrApathyCream | :) |
| 09:28:05 | | a stinkin lousy bot trying to take MrApathyCream's job! |
| 09:28:05 | MrApathyCream | ibot, bbot? |
| 09:28:11 | MrApathyCream | heh |
| 09:28:40 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: if it were decided to do a rewrite, you would help, no? |
| 09:29:01 | MrApathyCream | Of course, by it would be a terrible mistake |
| 09:29:09 | | a stinkin lousy bot trying to take the almighty ibot's job |
| 09:29:09 | MrApathyCream | ibot, bbot? |
| 09:30:18 | MrApathyCream | Think of the active developer pool |
| 09:30:22 | BZFlag | bbot spell conundrum |
| 09:30:27 | MrApathyCream | You, me, and who else? |
| 09:30:38 | MrApathyCream | BZFlag, chestal part time perhaps |
| 09:30:53 | BZFlag | bbot spell conundrum |
| 09:30:54 | bbot | 'conundrum' may be spelled correctly |
| 09:30:59 | BZFlag | bbot spell conundrumm |
| 09:31:01 | bbot | possible spellings for conundrumm: conundrum conundrums |
| 09:31:10 | BZFlag | sighs |
| 09:31:19 | MrApathyCream | a rewrite would never work |
| 09:31:34 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: explain |
| 09:32:07 | MrApathyCream | if (code > programmers) dontRewrite(); |
| 09:32:22 | BZFlag | just a lot of effort to get back to a useful state. |
| 09:32:27 | MrApathyCream | yup |
| 09:32:29 | captain_proton | well, true |
| 09:32:39 | MrApathyCream | I don't see where you think 1.7 is that bad |
| 09:32:49 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: as a game, its not that bad |
| 09:32:55 | MrApathyCream | it would be easy to mutate it to a clean state |
| 09:33:03 | captain_proton | except it won't! |
| 09:33:13 | captain_proton | networking, ok, i can see how to mutate that |
| 09:33:19 | captain_proton | what about rendering? physics? |
| 09:33:59 | MrApathyCream | what do you want to do with rendering/physics? |
| 09:34:07 | captain_proton | complex worlds |
| 09:34:12 | MrApathyCream | how will that improve the game? |
| 09:34:20 | MrApathyCream | define 'complex' |
| 09:34:21 | captain_proton | it will keep it interesting |
| 09:34:25 | captain_proton | arbitrary geometry |
| 09:34:30 | captain_proton | custom textures |
| 09:34:34 | captain_proton | moving platforms |
| 09:34:36 | captain_proton | ramps |
| 09:35:01 | MrApathyCream | other than ramps, i think all is pretty simple in 1.7 |
| 09:35:11 | MrApathyCream | and i believe ramps are a bad idea, |
| 09:35:16 | captain_proton | a couple new flags and some cheat protection isn't going to hold my interest for long |
| 09:35:18 | MrApathyCream | tanks should always be level |
| 09:35:43 | captain_proton | over the last 7 years or so of its existance bzflag saw thousands of players |
| 09:35:52 | captain_proton | of those thousands, how many are still here? 6? 7? |
| 09:36:01 | captain_proton | s/last/first/ |
| 09:36:17 | MrApathyCream | i'd say ~50-75 |
| 09:36:40 | captain_proton | really? that many old-hats? |
| 09:36:47 | MrApathyCream | old no |
| 09:37:01 | BZFlag | well, moving platforms would mean net changes. |
| 09:37:24 | MrApathyCream | net changes are fine, let's just not break anything in the process |
| 09:37:31 | BZFlag | though a new release based on 1.7 that is not compatible with the existing 1.7 is possible. |
| 09:37:37 | captain_proton | the names i recognize from when i first started playing: riker, monkeyboy, chestal, lazarus(pops in maybe once a year), oma(pops in maybe once every couple years) |
| 09:37:44 | MrApathyCream | i'm not talking about compatibility, break away |
| 09:37:59 | MrApathyCream | i never understood the need for backward compatibility in games anyway, stupid imo |
| 09:38:14 | MrApathyCream | it should be actively discouraged |
| 09:38:26 | MrApathyCream | i mean, when we make changes to the net, don't bust the rest of the game |
| 09:39:05 | BZFlag | MrApathyCream: there are just a ton of people using old clients. I think we have most all the platforms represented now, so a new incompatibile release could happen and just drop support for the old. |
| 09:39:18 | captain_proton | that style of development works for me, rewrite works for me |
| 09:39:23 | MrApathyCream | YES! let's get rid of all the crappy old versions |
| 09:39:23 | captain_proton | stagnation doesn't work for me |
| 09:39:28 | MrApathyCream | i still see 1.7e1's around |
| 09:39:45 | BZFlag | I saw a 1.7d9 the other day. |
| 09:40:04 | MrApathyCream | It should be the goal to NOT have backward compatibility |
| 09:40:04 | captain_proton | my qualms come up with dedicating ourselves to never 'breaking' anything, and being left unable to ever replace the rendering or physics |
| 09:40:44 | captain_proton | if things were better modularized, it might be possible, but i don't see that in the current codebase |
| 09:40:50 | MrApathyCream | captain_proton: you can make as big of a change as you want, that's fine by me, just when you check it in, everything better work, or i'll smack you with a damp fish |
| 09:41:25 | MrApathyCream | so given that, I would suggest making changes gradually if at all possible |
| 09:41:32 | MrApathyCream | thru refactoring etc |
| 09:42:21 | captain_proton | i think if we decide to go the gradual evolution way, we should first concentrate ALL of our effort on cleaning up the codebase, modularizing everything, etc |
| 09:42:52 | captain_proton | or else we'll end up with something like the 1.8 codebase we've got now |
| 09:43:27 | MrApathyCream | that's fine, but when we do that, we should say to ourselves, i'm cleaning up this section of the code because..... |
| 09:43:37 | MrApathyCream | we shouldn't just clean for cleaning sake |
| 09:43:55 | MrApathyCream | eg: we want to redo the net code, that is why i'm modularizing the current stuff |
| 09:44:39 | MrApathyCream | it may sound like more work, but imo in the end, it's actually faster |
| 09:45:13 | MrApathyCream | i'm just scared that 1.8 is too far gone at this point. |
| 09:46:37 | captain_proton | also, i take issue with this statement: <MrApathyCream> captain_proton: you can make as big of a change as you want, that's fine by me, just when you check it in, everything better work, or i'll smack you with a damp fish |
| 09:46:52 | MrApathyCream | dont like fish? |
| 09:47:05 | captain_proton | because it's impossible for one person to rewrite all the rendering without missing features and ever finish it |
| 09:47:16 | captain_proton | especially if other development is going on |
| 09:47:27 | MrApathyCream | do it in steps so it always works |
| 09:47:30 | captain_proton | it might be possible for a small team, say, all of the developers at once |
| 09:47:38 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: that's not how rendering engines work :P |
| 09:47:38 | MrApathyCream | as people see that you are making progress, others will jump in because there is hope |
| 09:49:00 | captain_proton | rendering engines are a massive entity |
| 09:49:30 | captain_proton | and replacing an existing one is -not- an incremental task |
| 09:50:05 | MrApathyCream | 1) have we really gained anything with the new one from a user experience? |
| 09:50:21 | MrApathyCream | 2) you can imagine any substeps? |
| 09:50:33 | BZFlag | if you modularize the current one, then ou could #ifdef the two interfaces and work on the new one in the same code base without breaking the old one. |
| 09:50:49 | captain_proton | well |
| 09:50:49 | MrApathyCream | s/can/can't/ |
| 09:51:04 | BZFlag | much of the (painful) modularization that would force would be good for the codebase anyway. |
| 09:51:09 | captain_proton | 1) in 1.8, no, because the new capabilities were never actually used |
| 09:51:31 | captain_proton | but imo complex worlds are one of the two major features we need for 1.8 |
| 09:51:47 | captain_proton | and our current system of hardcoded geometry doesn't work for that |
| 09:52:14 | captain_proton | 2) step 1: rip it out. step 2: start building the new one up |
| 09:52:30 | captain_proton | yes, rendering could be ifdefed |
| 09:53:04 | captain_proton | but its not going to happen if its a one-man job |
| 09:53:04 | MrApathyCream | i just don't see the new rendering system ever really being finished. |
| 09:53:09 | MrApathyCream | and in my mind it didn't really accomplish much |
| 09:53:18 | captain_proton | <captain_proton> 1) in 1.8, no, because the new capabilities were never actually used |
| 09:53:38 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: every single person left bzflag because they got farking bored with boxes and pyramids |
| 09:53:50 | MrApathyCream | why can't we add other things to 1.7? |
| 09:54:04 | MrApathyCream | why can't objects move? |
| 09:54:07 | MrApathyCream | there's noreason |
| 09:54:34 | captain_proton | ok, movable boxes, pyramids, cylinders |
| 09:54:36 | MrApathyCream | i would think cappy could add moving buildings in < 1 day to 1.7 |
| 09:54:43 | captain_proton | thats maybe a few more months of play |
| 09:54:50 | MrApathyCream | what else? |
| 09:54:58 | captain_proton | real geometry |
| 09:55:01 | captain_proton | textures |
| 09:55:03 | MrApathyCream | meaning? |
| 09:55:19 | captain_proton | give the world designers some credit and let them design worlds instead of collections of primitives |
| 09:55:30 | MrApathyCream | meaning? |
| 09:55:48 | captain_proton | arbitrary polygon geometry |
| 09:55:51 | captain_proton | downloaded from the server |
| 09:55:54 | MrApathyCream | isn't that just the editors job? hmmm do we know anyone who did development on the editors? |
| 09:55:58 | captain_proton | textured with textures that are downloaded from the server |
| 09:56:06 | MrApathyCream | again, a 1 day job |
| 09:56:12 | captain_proton | no, that isn't a 1 day job |
| 09:56:18 | MrApathyCream | textures? comeon |
| 09:56:20 | MrApathyCream | simple |
| 09:56:21 | captain_proton | because our current rendering engine uses -hardcoded- geometry |
| 09:56:27 | MrApathyCream | still simple |
| 09:56:31 | captain_proton | we have a source file full of vertices that defines a tank |
| 09:56:44 | captain_proton | and the engine loads up that class when it needs to draw a tank |
| 09:56:57 | MrApathyCream | a) the texture applied could easily replaced |
| 09:57:10 | MrApathyCream | b) the coordinates could easily be downloaded (although i think that's not good) |
| 09:57:18 | MrApathyCream | ok 2 days |
| 09:57:54 | captain_proton | you're underestimating the scope of this problem by an unbelievable amount |
| 09:58:11 | MrApathyCream | the 1.8 rendering engine looks like a thesis, but it's not good to work with imo |
| 09:58:27 | MrApathyCream | i know cappy, i am not underestimating |
| 09:58:45 | captain_proton | i'm not saying the 1.8 engine is great, it is hard to work with |
| 09:59:04 | MrApathyCream | it's impossible to debug for one |
| 09:59:23 | captain_proton | the 1.8 engine basically exports all the gl calls to xml then just interprets it |
| 09:59:27 | captain_proton | which is a pain |
| 09:59:30 | MrApathyCream | yup |
| 09:59:48 | MrApathyCream | Think of the amount of time you've invested in learning it. and you say it's not easy |
| 10:00:01 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: its the only thing i've got right now |
| 10:00:03 | MrApathyCream | Now imagine the rest of the bzdev community who has much less time than you |
| 10:00:30 | MrApathyCream | They're never going to attempt to understand it, and thus never work on it, or on anything involved with it |
| 10:00:50 | MrApathyCream | thus, no new rendering/physics stuff anyway |
| 10:01:11 | MrApathyCream | In the end we have a 'pretty' system, with no one working/improving it. |
| 10:01:17 | MrApathyCream | It gained us nothing |
| 10:01:25 | captain_proton | i don't want to leave bzflag, but if i don't get something to grab my attention i will |
| 10:01:43 | captain_proton | a new flag holds my attention for about 10 minutes |
| 10:02:11 | captain_proton | cheat protection is nice but not really a new 'feature' to be explored |
| 10:03:07 | captain_proton | what are you proposing that will keep me around? |
| 10:03:51 | captain_proton | because /me is farking frustrated with being a motivational speaker and farking bored with the game |
| 10:04:20 | MrApathyCream | i dunno, you tell me? |
| 10:04:47 | MrApathyCream | for me, i like to add humor to the game. |
| 10:04:58 | captain_proton | humor, there's amusement for another 20 minutes or so |
| 10:05:06 | MrApathyCream | which means quirky flags, perhaps silly new obstacles, who knows |
| 10:05:09 | MrApathyCream | but that's me |
| 10:05:23 | captain_proton | is VM going to be funny the 10,000th time you see it? |
| 10:05:45 | MrApathyCream | dunno. it will be funny for awhile |
| 10:05:51 | MrApathyCream | by then there'll be new flags |
| 10:06:00 | captain_proton | we can't go on adding new flags forever |
| 10:06:21 | MrApathyCream | think of other games... doom stuff |
| 10:06:28 | captain_proton | ? |
| 10:06:29 | MrApathyCream | it's all about collecting new weapons |
| 10:06:33 | MrApathyCream | BFG, etc. |
| 10:06:52 | MrApathyCream | BFG is humorous imo |
| 10:07:00 | MrApathyCream | perhaps i don't get out enough |
| 10:07:20 | captain_proton | but -everyone- except for a few quirks like you have moved on to newer FPS games |
| 10:07:22 | MrApathyCream | perhaps you are too good. that could be a problem |
| 10:07:43 | MrApathyCream | maybe we could make games so you don't have such an advantage |
| 10:08:07 | MrApathyCream | what are these new FPS games and why are people moving on? <serious question here> |
| 10:09:07 | captain_proton | doom -> doom 2 -> quake -> quake2 -> quake3 -> doom 3 with all the unreal, halflife, counterstrike etc too |
| 10:09:44 | MrApathyCream | what is the draw? |
| 10:10:12 | captain_proton | each subsequent game has offered new strategies, new graphics, new weapons |
| 10:11:29 | captain_proton | if we had ramps, some textures, whenever a new map came out i'd have something to explore and learn |
| 10:12:50 | captain_proton | but creating a rendering engine flexible enough to handle that, as well as extensible enough to add all the eye candy in later is an enormous job |
| 10:13:11 | BZFlag | I'd like to see the karma system and a ladder built in. then the draw is the continual search to improve your registered nick. |
| 10:13:17 | captain_proton | a team of 4 who were seriously hacking at it could probably get most of the stuff working in a couple weeks |
| 10:13:38 | captain_proton | BZFlag: that is one idea |
| 10:13:56 | MrApathyCream | cappy, do you really think ramps are a good idea? how would game play work with non z constant bullets? |
| 10:14:17 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: players would have to adjust |
| 10:14:49 | captain_proton | it would give us something to learn |
| 10:16:10 | MrApathyCream | like you said tho, how many old hats are around. |
| 10:16:18 | MrApathyCream | the newbies would really hate ramps |
| 10:16:29 | MrApathyCream | ok, me to prolly, as i schtank |
| 10:16:55 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: there's a reason why there aren't many old hats around |
| 10:17:28 | captain_proton | because after a year, or two or three, the game gets hideously boring |
| 10:19:33 | captain_proton | and a ladder system isn't going to help much |
| 10:19:37 | captain_proton | just look at the league |
| 10:19:48 | captain_proton | it prolonged everyone's interest for a while, then died |
| 10:20:53 | MrApathyCream | i frankly think interest has wained because really NOTHING new has come out in a while |
| 10:20:59 | MrApathyCream | ok, full screen, |
| 10:21:13 | MrApathyCream | but NO flags, no new world stuff, no new gamestyles |
| 10:21:35 | MrApathyCream | if we at least had something, .... |
| 10:21:40 | captain_proton | new flags (for the most part) don't add much |
| 10:21:44 | MrApathyCream | this new release every year thing is killing us |
| 10:21:57 | MrApathyCream | if we released every 3 months.... |
| 10:22:04 | captain_proton | i got bored with a lot of the stuff we added in 1.8 just testing it |
| 10:22:32 | captain_proton | there are a few (like magnet) which i think could add some really subtle moves, but those are quite tricky to implement |
| 10:22:34 | MrApathyCream | yes, but your a curmudgeon, most would like something new :) |
| 10:23:01 | captain_proton | yeah, for a while |
| 10:23:16 | captain_proton | and we end up 2 years from now with 200 new flags and a bored group of players |
| 10:23:24 | BZFlag | work on server side bots then. that should make the list of fun servers larger. |
| 10:23:58 | MrApathyCream | i agree a extensible server side bot system would be nice. |
| 10:24:18 | MrApathyCream | planes, red cross vehicles, tornados |
| 10:24:30 | captain_proton | but then we're still left shooting tanks on the same old fields |
| 10:24:38 | captain_proton | just sometimes bot tanks instead of people tanks |
| 10:24:49 | MrApathyCream | see above |
| 10:25:14 | MrApathyCream | i'm all for moving platforms |
| 10:25:27 | MrApathyCream | i just think non z-constant fields are a mistake |
| 10:25:31 | Chestal | to me, the current game is still interesting enough without new flags or ramps or anything. It's still a challenge to improve, and then new goodplayers keep joining the game |
| 10:26:33 | captain_proton | has a brick texture burned into his retinas |
| 10:26:48 | MrApathyCream | download my texture drop ins, at the very least |
| 10:27:09 | MrApathyCream | downloadable textures would be simple in 1.7 |
| 10:27:27 | captain_proton | oh? it means a near-complete rewrite of the scene-graph system |
| 10:27:29 | Chestal | I usually play withotu textures because of speed issues. A few days ago I played at home for a change. Is it just me, or do textures make everythign very dark? |
| 10:27:36 | BZFlag | server provided textures would be nice. |
| 10:27:49 | MrApathyCream | captain_proton: your melodramatic |
| 10:27:57 | captain_proton | thinks MrApathyCream doesn't understand the implications of hardcoded geometry |
| 10:28:14 | MrApathyCream | captain_proton: the geometry stays the same, the textures change |
| 10:28:20 | captain_proton | it means objects aren't individual |
| 10:28:50 | MrApathyCream | it would be an evolutionary step that would be doable in short order, |
| 10:29:03 | MrApathyCream | it's a good thing to do in the right direction |
| 10:29:20 | captain_proton | and we end up with an even steamier, cruftier mess |
| 10:29:20 | MrApathyCream | and it wouldn't break everything |
| 10:29:23 | captain_proton | i gotta get to bed |
| 10:29:36 | MrApathyCream | no, cause cappy would refactor as he added it |
| 10:29:49 | MrApathyCream | it's only 5:30! |
| 10:29:49 | BZFlag | fixing the tank meshes in the client so they are better for loading textures would be nice too. |
| 10:31:05 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: i'm sick, tired, frustrated with the players, the game, and the developers - goodnight |
| 10:31:20 | BZFlag | nite |
| 10:31:23 | MrApathyCream | sleep tight, buddy, the world will be a rosy place when you wake |
| 10:31:39 | MrApathyCream | i should go to work, spose |
| 11:05:26 | MrApathyCream | chestal, dunno, never play w/o textures, but i do have brightness all the way up |
| 11:05:31 | MrApathyCream | cu |
| 11:22:47 | [dmp] | hi |
| 11:33:01 | [dmp] | ibat ducati |
| 11:33:07 | [dmp] | ibatman ducati |
| 11:33:10 | | bzfquerylong ducati.bzflag.org 5156 |
| 11:33:10 | [dmp] | ibot ducati |
| 12:04:47 | | bzfquery turkey.moongroup.com 7500 |
| 12:04:47 | sussudio | ibot turkey |
| 12:05:31 | | [TeA]: sorry... |
| 12:05:31 | [TeA] | ibot olga |
| 12:05:39 | | [TeA]: sorry... |
| 12:05:39 | [TeA] | ibot chicken |
| 12:05:43 | [TeA] | ;) |
| 12:08:02 | sussudio | they guys playing on turkey right now really suck |
| 12:08:09 | sussudio | i'm #1 and that's saying something |
| 13:03:23 | sussudio | "Intel Pushes Pentium 4 Past 3 GHz" |
| 13:03:35 | sussudio | from the only-doug-will-buy-this-so-he's-leet-for-3-weeks dept. |
| 13:12:39 | | bzfquerylong ducati.bzflag.org 5156 |
| 13:12:39 | [TeA] | ibot ducati |
| 13:34:35 | Terminator | hi all |
| 13:34:44 | Terminator | i'm back from my holiday |
| 13:35:03 | [dmp] | Hey Terminator :-) |
| 13:35:12 | Terminator | hi there |
| 13:35:21 | [dmp] | Have you been playing on ducati today? |
| 13:35:25 | Terminator | no |
| 13:35:33 | Terminator | i only just got back |
| 13:35:34 | [dmp] | oh, so it was a fake one :) |
| 13:35:40 | Terminator | wtf |
| 13:35:53 | Terminator | i am going to find them and strangle them |
| 13:36:00 | Terminator | umm maybe not |
| 13:36:18 | [dmp] | yeah, just look for a dude named terminator.. strangle him :) |
| 13:36:32 | Terminator | i have been away sinice fri. 17th oct. |
| 13:36:42 | Terminator | and got back 2day |
| 13:37:45 | [dmp] | okey |
| 13:37:52 | Terminator | yup |
| 13:38:21 | [dmp] | so the elite folks are ready to roll again :-) |
| 13:38:49 | [TeA|TrEE] | TeA on the TrEE !!!!!!! |
| 13:45:31 | | Hello boy with 3 toilets |
| 13:45:31 | sussudio | ibot lo toiletboy |
| 13:47:27 | Terminator | LOL |
| 13:48:42 | Terminator | oops |
| 13:49:08 | Terminator | left cl on |
| 13:50:59 | sussudio | doug has 5 toilets and 3 asses |
| 13:51:07 | sussudio | dr mephesto is very proud of his work |
| 13:51:13 | Terminator | lol |
| 13:51:54 | Terminator | ah i c #bzflag has sum ops now |
| 13:52:08 | | Terminator: excuse me? |
| 13:52:08 | Terminator | ibot should be one |
| 13:52:14 | Terminator | oops |
| 13:52:36 | [TeA|TrEE] | Terminator !!!!!!! |
| 13:52:39 | [TeA|TrEE] | hio |
| 13:52:46 | Terminator | hi |
| 13:53:03 | [TeA|TrEE] | is your team aktive ? |
| 13:53:05 | sussudio | tea only has 1 ass |
| 13:53:11 | Terminator | nope |
| 13:53:20 | Terminator | only me and storm r active |
| 13:53:28 | [TeA|TrEE] | uff |
| 13:53:33 | Terminator | but we went on holiday and just got back |
| 13:53:42 | [TeA|TrEE] | i saw waterwolf yesterday |
| 13:53:45 | [TeA|TrEE] | and intrix |
| 13:53:51 | Terminator | intrix quit |
| 13:54:03 | sussudio | i saw a magpie flying into a wall |
| 13:54:08 | [TeA|TrEE] | you would you like match match vs the penguins ? |
| 13:54:34 | Terminator | don't think i could get three players |
| 13:54:46 | Terminator | only 2 |
| 13:54:56 | | bzfquerylong ducati.bzflag.org 5156 |
| 13:54:56 | Terminator | ibot ducati |
| 13:55:20 | [TeA|TrEE] | you need 3 |
| 13:55:23 | Terminator | ibot bzfquery ducati.bzflag.org 5156 |
| 13:55:24 | | Terminator: No Players |
| 13:55:32 | Terminator | tea i know |
| 13:55:34 | sussudio | lo prozac |
| 13:55:40 | prodan | mumble grumble |
| 13:55:45 | prodan | gumble grumble |
| 13:55:48 | Terminator | hehe |
| 13:55:50 | prodan | grumble grumble |
| 13:56:04 | prodan | wants a dvd player from aldi. |
| 13:56:11 | sussudio | get one from lidl |
| 13:56:14 | prodan | but they are sold out |
| 13:56:17 | Terminator | neone up for ducati? |
| 13:56:18 | sussudio | aww |
| 13:56:26 | prodan | lidl have some too |
| 13:56:28 | prodan | ?? |
| 13:56:34 | sussudio | *shrug*.... sometimes |
| 13:56:41 | prodan | i want one NOW |
| 13:56:46 | prodan | sniff |
| 13:57:00 | sussudio | yeah... those smurf pr0n dvd's dont play themselves |
| 13:57:19 | Terminator | is busy for a little while |
| 13:57:27 | sussudio | cleaning toilets? |
| 13:57:29 | prodan | an all my journals are falling apart |
| 13:58:19 | sussudio | use superglue |
| 13:58:48 | bomber | grins |
| 13:59:13 | sussudio | you could get some Schweine-Filet-Medaillons instead |
| 13:59:19 | prodan | sulks |
| 13:59:38 | prodan | still wants a dvd player from aldi. |
| 13:59:56 | prodan | munches some Schweine-Filet-Medaillons instead |
| 13:59:58 | sussudio | go to another aldi |
| 14:00:12 | bomber | wants blue from sky |
| 14:00:14 | prodan | they dont even have phone numbers for the shops |
| 14:00:32 | Terminator | back |
| 14:00:35 | prodan | decides to buy a meridian system instead |
| 14:00:53 | Terminator | i g2g now |
| 14:01:00 | Terminator | c ya all l8r |
| 14:01:01 | sussudio | there's 6 aldi's in mannheim |
| 14:01:11 | prodan | also decides to buy a set of B&W Nautilus 800 |
| 14:01:29 | prodan | anybody got spare 40000 Eurus? |
| 14:02:26 | sussudio | http://www.aldi-sued.de/index.php3?choice=filialen |
| 14:02:39 | prodan | thx but no tel |
| 14:02:43 | sussudio | yeah so |
| 14:02:48 | prodan | just the addresses |
| 14:02:55 | sussudio | so go there |
| 14:03:41 | sussudio | D 68159 Mannheim, F 2 5-10 |
| 14:03:48 | sussudio | D 68169 Mannheim, Konzstraße 25 |
| 14:03:57 | sussudio | D 67059 Ludwigshafen, Otto-Stabel-Straße 3 |
| 14:04:05 | sussudio | D 67063 Ludwigshafen, Industriestraße 9 |
| 14:04:12 | sussudio | D 68309 Mannheim-Käfertal, Boveristraße 50 |
| 14:04:14 | sussudio | lalala |
| 14:04:34 | prodan | merci |
| 14:04:46 | sussudio | they're sorted by distance |
| 14:05:45 | sussudio | Warning: Failed opening './../../billiger//var_billiger.php3' for inclusion (include_path='.:/php/includes:/usr/share/php') in /PALD/users/ggald09/apache/WSAPASD1/htdocs/billiger/noflash/noflash_billiger.php3 on line 6 |
| 14:05:46 | sussudio | awwww |
| 14:10:50 | akira_ | hei |
| 14:11:08 | prodan | hei ho hei ho |
| 14:16:15 | | bzfquerylong ducati.bzflag.org 5156 |
| 14:16:15 | prodan | ibot ducati |
| 14:17:14 | | prodan is interested in the existence of Nash Equilibria in games with compact action sets and discontinuous payoff functions or lazy or not knowing anything about the stuff he says ... |
| 14:17:14 | bomber | ibot prodan |
| 14:18:15 | prodan | smashes some Schottky diodes. |
| 14:34:30 | doughecka | ? |
| 14:35:13 | prodan | ++? |
| 14:35:28 | doughecka | a=c+? |
| 14:35:49 | Chestal | 'a'=='c'---- |
| 14:35:58 | doughecka | lol |
| 14:36:10 | bh | hullo |
| 14:36:13 | prodan | "a" == --"c"-- |
| 14:36:40 | sussudio | taunts smsart a second time |
| 14:36:53 | Chestal | prodan: I guess both are undefined |
| 14:38:00 | akira_ | hello Chestal |
| 14:39:55 | sussudio | that was just too easy |
| 14:40:04 | sussudio | plays some more with the slashdot ppl |
| 14:40:06 | sussudio | http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=43586&cid=4554940 |
| 14:40:34 | sussudio | slaps cmdrtaco around with a karma cap |
| 14:43:47 | bomber | hmmm |
| 14:43:49 | bomber | bin ich noch da |
| 14:43:54 | bomber | was war das denn |
| 14:43:54 | Chestal | hi Widget, long time no see |
| 14:43:58 | Chestal | bomber: nö |
| 14:46:00 | bomber | chestal: :o)) |
| 15:15:42 | bzdouggggggg | whos bbot? |
| 15:15:46 | bzdouggggggg | aha |
| 15:15:51 | bzdouggggggg | bbot experimental bot |
| 15:15:51 | bbot | no idea, bzdouggggggg |
| 15:15:56 | bzdouggggggg | ahh |
| 15:15:58 | bzdouggggggg | its a ibot? |
| 15:16:05 | bzdouggggggg | bbot ibot? |
| 15:16:05 | bbot | bzdouggggggg: i don't know |
| 15:16:08 | bzdouggggggg | hmm |
| 15:16:11 | bzdouggggggg | bbot bzflag? |
| 15:16:11 | bbot | extra, extra, read all about it, bzflag is Tim Riker |
| 15:16:17 | bzdouggggggg | sure |
| 15:16:31 | | bzdouggg is Mrs. Riker! |
| 15:16:31 | sussudio | ibot bzdouggg |
| 15:17:10 | | sussudio is Get a life, Doug. |
| 15:17:10 | bzdouggggggg | ibot sussudio? |
| 15:17:13 | bzdouggggggg | yup |
| 15:17:22 | | bzdouggggggg: I forgot bzdouggg |
| 15:17:22 | bzdouggggggg | ibot forget bzdouggg |
| 15:17:26 | | bzdouggggggg: I forgot sussudio |
| 15:17:26 | bzdouggggggg | ibot forget sussudio |
| 15:17:30 | | the cow that went oink |
| 15:17:30 | bzdouggggggg | ibot sussudiooo? |
| 15:48:38 | bzdouggggggg | bbot hi |
| 15:48:38 | bbot | niihau |
| 15:48:45 | bzdouggggggg | shrugs |
| 15:49:26 | bzdouggggggg | is away |
| 15:52:04 | akira_ | msvc user here? |
| 15:52:42 | bzdouggggggg | ? |
| 15:52:47 | bzdouggggggg | whats dat? |
| 15:52:57 | akira_ | forget it |
| 15:53:07 | bzdouggggggg | :' |
| 15:53:09 | bzdouggggggg | :P |
| 15:59:57 | PerfectCell | hi i have tested 3d studio max 5, its col |
| 16:01:02 | akira_ | i am angry about msvc 6 still |
| 16:01:23 | PerfectCell | why? |
| 16:01:37 | akira_ | crappy stl - impl |
| 16:03:03 | PerfectCell | really, i didnt used stl too heavy, expect for the collection templates, vector and queue |
| 16:03:06 | PerfectCell | stuff |
| 16:03:12 | PerfectCell | i use c# |
| 16:03:19 | PerfectCell | now |
| 16:03:27 | PerfectCell | and make my own templates |
| 16:03:38 | akira_ | i ll stay platform indep .. |
| 16:03:47 | akira_ | so c# is no choice at the moment |
| 16:04:51 | Chestal | PerfectCell: how do C3 collections work? like in Java? |
| 16:10:32 | PerfectCell | C3 collections? |
| 16:10:37 | Chestal | C# |
| 16:11:10 | PerfectCell | lice the vector stl class |
| 16:11:14 | PerfectCell | like |
| 16:11:25 | PerfectCell | exactly the same |
| 16:11:25 | Chestal | with regard to typing? |
| 16:11:30 | PerfectCell | yes |
| 16:11:39 | Chestal | there are generics in C#? |
| 16:12:20 | PerfectCell | no, the support the base class 'object' which all upjects must derive from, so u have to cast |
| 16:12:32 | Chestal | uh, ugly downcasts just like in Java? |
| 16:12:38 | PerfectCell | yes |
| 16:12:51 | PerfectCell | but mostly u can avoid it |
| 16:13:18 | Chestal | how? write a wrapper for the container? |
| 16:13:18 | PerfectCell | foreach(Point3D in MyPointCollection) |
| 16:13:29 | Chestal | uh, what's that? |
| 16:13:40 | Chestal | that looks like magic |
| 16:13:43 | PerfectCell | foreach(Point3D p in MyPointCollection) { p.X = 12;}; |
| 16:14:01 | PerfectCell | itt makes the cast by itself |
| 16:14:02 | Chestal | so, collectiosn are part of the core language? |
| 16:14:17 | PerfectCell | no but the foreach statement is |
| 16:14:32 | Chestal | well, but foreach only makes sense with collections, doesn't it? |
| 16:14:46 | PerfectCell | and each collection must implement the IEnumerable interface so it can be used by froeach |
| 16:15:11 | Chestal | are there other magic keywords liek foreach? |
| 16:15:15 | PerfectCell | no, it makes sense with arrays, and all kind off stuff too |
| 16:15:18 | Chestal | let's say I want to search for an item in a collection |
| 16:15:24 | PerfectCell | k |
| 16:15:34 | akira_ | finally got this damn compiler |
| 16:15:43 | akira_ | beat him |
| 16:15:53 | akira_ | muhahahahr :) akira is god on his pc :) |
| 16:16:17 | Chestal | akira: I installed win2000 on Sunday, took all day :-| |
| 16:16:25 | Chestal | Microsoft installation routines are beyong me |
| 16:16:26 | ak|ra | Chestal: :)) know this |
| 16:16:29 | ak|ra | me too |
| 16:16:40 | ak|ra | 1000 time faster to install a linux cluster :) |
| 16:16:54 | Chestal | without an additional win98 boot CD and my Linux, it woildn't even have been possible |
| 16:17:00 | PerfectCell | i downloaded the some cool Blue System songs, love them |
| 16:17:20 | PerfectCell | and 3d max 5 600mb |
| 16:17:27 | Chestal | and when I wanted to creat esome user accounts, I gave up and ended with doign everythign as administrator *sigh* |
| 16:17:57 | PerfectCell | Chestal:u are a unix guy? |
| 16:18:16 | Chestal | yes |
| 16:18:36 | PerfectCell | so how do u create accounts in unix |
| 16:18:41 | Chestal | does XP still use DOS to install? |
| 16:18:46 | prodan | rm -r *.* |
| 16:18:57 | PerfectCell | remove |
| 16:18:58 | PerfectCell | ? |
| 16:19:05 | Chestal | perfectcell: that depends on the flavour of Unix, I migh tbe abel to use a tool |
| 16:19:14 | prodan | recursive del of whole disk |
| 16:19:20 | PerfectCell | i know |
| 16:19:32 | PerfectCell | did that shit once, and lost everything |
| 16:19:32 | Chestal | pc: creatign accounts with win2000 is not the problem, the problem is that software installs are dumb, so programs imnstalled as admin usually do not work when used as a normal user |
| 16:19:34 | prodan | adduser |
| 16:19:59 | prodan | PC: do man adduser for info on adding users |
| 16:20:08 | Wilinckx | there is a cheater on moongroup :-( |
| 16:20:32 | PerfectCell | i also like the unix file attributes because are more simple |
| 16:20:47 | PerfectCell | hi |
| 16:20:53 | Patlabor221 | hi |
| 16:21:31 | PerfectCell | i have donloaded 3d max 5 today and tested render to texture and uv unwrap, its really great |
| 16:21:47 | PerfectCell | its easy to use |
| 16:22:50 | Patlabor221 | ahhhh |
| 16:23:17 | Patlabor221 | is building the largest zip file this building has ever seeeeeeeeeen |
| 16:23:34 | Patlabor221 | well non ISO zip |
| 16:23:51 | PerfectCell | whats iside it? |
| 16:23:57 | Patlabor221 | MP3s |
| 16:24:02 | prodan | calls bzip2 on Pat's zip file to compress it by a further 20% |
| 16:24:06 | Patlabor221 | 6 CDs worth |
| 16:24:29 | Patlabor221 | will it compress mp3's that much? |
| 16:24:32 | PerfectCell | a cool, why zip them, then u cannot play them? |
| 16:24:47 | Patlabor221 | so they can get goten in one chunk |
| 16:24:50 | prodan | suggests using ogg instead of mp3 |
| 16:25:12 | Patlabor221 | it's what they were done in, had I riped them myself I would have done that |
| 16:25:21 | Patlabor221 | well I did rip one of the CDs but that was before oog |
| 16:25:31 | Patlabor221 | I do all my new stuff in ogg |
| 16:25:45 | prodan | flashes his Zaurus with ogg player. |
| 16:25:54 | PerfectCell | shit, i lost the icon that minimizes all windows, someone knows where to find that again, its so useful? |
| 16:26:06 | Patlabor221 | MP3 to ogg conversions seem to suck unless you filter a bit |
| 16:26:20 | prodan | never tried, should be quite lossy |
| 16:26:27 | Patlabor221 | it is |
| 16:26:39 | prodan | 128kbit mp3? |
| 16:26:42 | Patlabor221 | you can get ok resulsts goign out to wav then runa noise filter |
| 16:26:44 | Patlabor221 | then recompress |
| 16:26:45 | Patlabor221 | 160 |
| 16:27:02 | prodan | what filter? |
| 16:27:19 | | bzfquerylong ducati.bzflag.org 5156 |
| 16:27:19 | prodan | ibot ducati |
| 16:27:31 | Patlabor221 | I don't reccall exatly my friend showed me in sound forge |
| 16:27:41 | Patlabor221 | it looked for noise |
| 16:28:07 | PerfectCell | shall i give u another mp3 from Blue System? |
| 16:28:22 | prodan | somebody's def of music is somebody else's def of noise |
| 16:28:27 | Patlabor221 | and then made it ether louder or quieter so it took up the entre dynamic range |
| 16:28:35 | Patlabor221 | this is true |
| 16:28:59 | Patlabor221 | still it wasn't automated so I'm not gonna go do it on all 200 gigs of these files |
| 16:29:23 | PerfectCell | u use a sound editor to make ur own music? |
| 16:29:33 | Patlabor221 | my own what? |
| 16:29:57 | PerfectCell | sound |
| 16:30:13 | Patlabor221 | well I use sound forge |
| 16:30:20 | PerfectCell | is it good |
| 16:30:21 | Patlabor221 | but only for effects |
| 16:30:26 | Patlabor221 | I am not a musician |
| 16:30:33 | Patlabor221 | nor sound guy |
| 16:30:44 | Patlabor221 | my firend helps me with a lot of it |
| 16:30:59 | PerfectCell | do the sounds guy paid as well as programmers? |
| 16:31:12 | Patlabor221 | and moslty I just steal stuff |
| 16:31:26 | Patlabor221 | depends on how good you are, and what you do |
| 16:31:27 | PerfectCell | everybody does |
| 16:31:28 | Patlabor221 | they can make more |
| 16:31:56 | Patlabor221 | but they usualy are ether freelance or have there own company |
| 16:32:00 | PerfectCell | ms steals from sun and sun from ms |
| 16:32:04 | Patlabor221 | since once the sound is done for a project |
| 16:32:11 | Patlabor221 | there isn't much more to do on it |
| 16:32:17 | PerfectCell | ah |
| 16:32:23 | PerfectCell | k |
| 16:32:40 | Patlabor221 | and there is a lot of equipment cost |
| 16:33:20 | PerfectCell | but u can meke it all on pc? |
| 16:33:36 | Patlabor221 | you do all the processing on your PC |
| 16:33:41 | Patlabor221 | but you need mikes |
| 16:33:45 | Patlabor221 | mixers |
| 16:33:51 | Patlabor221 | and better quality input stuff |
| 16:33:51 | PerfectCell | i dont know, i just think that making music is more interesting then programming |
| 16:33:59 | Patlabor221 | it can be |
| 16:34:03 | Patlabor221 | they are actualy similar |
| 16:34:19 | Patlabor221 | but if you do it all on a PC then quality can suffer |
| 16:34:28 | Patlabor221 | or it will all sound too dry |
| 16:34:40 | PerfectCell | k |
| 16:35:27 | PerfectCell | bye, i have to work |
| 16:35:57 | Patlabor221 | ohh he dosn't work |
| 17:18:19 | PerfectCell | funny, i made a interactive selection function, and now i wonder how the hell i did it so cool, and i dont get a clue, i just dont remember |
| 17:18:44 | PerfectCell | i would need a better memory |
| 17:20:40 | PerfectCell | i try to split all things into independent components, but then u need a framework that connects the components and uses them in a correct way, so thats kinda complicated |
| 17:21:01 | ak|ra | :) |
| 17:21:05 | ak|ra | ibot: bzflist |
| 17:21:05 | | ak|ra: jzaun.com:5155(12) bzflag.noodleroni.com:5155(1) turkey.moongroup.com:7500(17) bzflag-1.games.internode.on.net:5155(2) ducati.bzflag.org:5156(8) 66.207.0.59:5164(8) |
| 17:23:48 | PerfectCell | i really would prefer to write a unix kernel then a 3d editor |
| 17:24:42 | PerfectCell | i mean a microkernel |
| 17:29:40 | PerfectCell | basically its the same, a kernel provides the infrustructure for plugins(executable files, proccesses), and a 3d editor provides an infrastructure for 3d objects too |
| 17:30:17 | PerfectCell | and some reliable services are provided too |
| 17:31:54 | [dmp] | personally i would settle with getting involved with a c/c++ on unix platform. |
| 17:42:58 | Patlabor221 | why don't you do what you like then? |
| 17:43:15 | PerfectCell | cause i have no money |
| 17:43:18 | PerfectCell | sad |
| 17:43:21 | PerfectCell | ly |
| 17:44:03 | Patlabor221 | and is the 3d editor going to make you money? |
| 17:44:09 | PerfectCell | sure |
| 17:44:23 | Patlabor221 | from who? |
| 17:44:23 | PerfectCell | i want to sell it as 3d control for .Net |
| 17:44:30 | Patlabor221 | ahhh |
| 17:44:36 | PerfectCell | u can drag from the control pannel |
| 17:44:47 | PerfectCell | onto ur windows form |
| 17:45:38 | PerfectCell | i hope it will, but its plenty of work still to be done |
| 17:46:02 | Patlabor221 | sounds like an OCX control for VB |
| 17:46:11 | PerfectCell | yes, a component |
| 17:46:40 | PerfectCell | u can u se it as a 'simple' viewer |
| 17:46:46 | PerfectCell | or an editor |
| 17:47:13 | PerfectCell | or build ur own out of the components:scene and view |
| 17:47:52 | PerfectCell | so thats what im doing right now |
| 17:48:10 | Patlabor221 | you should make it handle animations |
| 17:48:25 | PerfectCell | yes it will handle key frame animations |
| 17:48:40 | PerfectCell | using Transformation Controllers |
| 17:48:40 | Patlabor221 | of what type? |
| 17:48:42 | Patlabor221 | ohh |
| 17:48:49 | Patlabor221 | just object space animation |
| 17:48:54 | Patlabor221 | no vertex animation? |
| 17:49:01 | Patlabor221 | or bones? |
| 17:49:26 | PerfectCell | first of all, every parameter(Property) can be assigned a controller |
| 17:49:44 | Patlabor221 | and those are? |
| 17:49:55 | PerfectCell | there are following controllers: Transform(matrix), Vector, float, int, bool |
| 17:50:05 | Patlabor221 | pos rot and scale I ausme |
| 17:50:16 | PerfectCell | so all Properties that have thi data type can be animatied |
| 17:50:17 | Patlabor221 | but what does it x-form? |
| 17:50:38 | Patlabor221 | but what are the properties? |
| 17:51:09 | PerfectCell | ie: a box object has a Length Height and Width Properties |
| 17:51:17 | PerfectCell | its done as follows |
| 17:51:22 | Patlabor221 | scale |
| 17:51:41 | Patlabor221 | but I am saying they a reproperies for the entinre object |
| 17:51:43 | PerfectCell | scale i a property of a node |
| 17:51:47 | PerfectCell | not of the box |
| 17:51:53 | Patlabor221 | what is a node |
| 17:51:58 | Patlabor221 | remember we can't read your mind |
| 17:51:58 | PerfectCell | the box is a procedural object |
| 17:52:15 | Patlabor221 | lets say I import a STL |
| 17:52:18 | Patlabor221 | what does it become? |
| 17:52:44 | PerfectCell | a node holds the world transform for an object and can have child nodes, and references an object and a transform controller |
| 17:52:56 | PerfectCell | class Node |
| 17:52:58 | PerfectCell | { |
| 17:53:08 | PerfectCell | Transform worldTransfor; |
| 17:53:12 | Patlabor221 | ok what can I do to that STL animation wize |
| 17:53:16 | Patlabor221 | I don't need to see your code |
| 17:53:23 | PerfectCell | BaseObject baseObj; |
| 17:53:24 | PerfectCell | k |
| 17:53:32 | Patlabor221 | I asume I can move it |
| 17:53:34 | Patlabor221 | rotate it |
| 17:53:35 | Patlabor221 | scale it |
| 17:53:37 | Patlabor221 | color it |
| 17:53:40 | Patlabor221 | what else? |
| 17:53:46 | PerfectCell | yes thats all u can do with nodes |
| 17:53:54 | Patlabor221 | anythign else? |
| 17:53:59 | PerfectCell | group |
| 17:54:07 | PerfectCell | link |
| 17:54:13 | PerfectCell | select |
| 17:54:16 | PerfectCell | hide |
| 17:54:18 | PerfectCell | freeze |
| 17:54:27 | PerfectCell | copy |
| 17:54:29 | PerfectCell | clone |
| 17:54:33 | Patlabor221 | I mean in animations |
| 17:54:35 | Patlabor221 | not as tools |
| 17:54:38 | PerfectCell | oh |
| 17:54:42 | Patlabor221 | sounds like I can just make it move |
| 17:54:44 | Patlabor221 | around |
| 17:54:47 | Patlabor221 | and spin and scale |
| 17:54:51 | PerfectCell | u can animate the Transform |
| 17:55:03 | Patlabor221 | like I said all object space animation |
| 17:55:31 | Patlabor221 | I can't make a single mesh "walk" |
| 17:55:42 | Patlabor221 | or a flag wave |
| 17:55:46 | PerfectCell | no, no skin animation |
| 17:55:56 | Patlabor221 | they arn't called skin animatatons |
| 17:56:01 | Patlabor221 | it's called vertex animatiuon |
| 17:56:04 | Patlabor221 | the skin the texture |
| 17:56:10 | PerfectCell | k |
| 17:56:20 | PerfectCell | i mean it can be done too |
| 17:56:28 | Patlabor221 | and how will you output these animations? |
| 17:56:35 | Patlabor221 | can you make a movie or anything? |
| 17:56:44 | Patlabor221 | cus that would be cool |
| 17:57:04 | PerfectCell | it will have no world renderer |
| 17:57:14 | PerfectCell | i meanhigh quality renderer |
| 17:57:21 | PerfectCell | software |
| 17:57:24 | Patlabor221 | ahhh |
| 17:57:30 | Patlabor221 | that's cool |
| 17:57:32 | PerfectCell | im just one person |
| 17:58:00 | Patlabor221 | still just allowing ojbect transfom animation is kind of limiting. |
| 17:58:16 | PerfectCell | it allows for writing plugins |
| 17:58:18 | Patlabor221 | would not realy be usefull for things sutch as game dev |
| 17:58:28 | Patlabor221 | you should look at the DOGA system |
| 17:58:47 | PerfectCell | DOGA? |
| 17:58:52 | Patlabor221 | it's a small 3d editor/animation system |
| 17:59:04 | Patlabor221 | bit simpler then you in some cases |
| 17:59:11 | Patlabor221 | but I think they are trying to do the same thing as you |
| 17:59:24 | Patlabor221 | www.doga.co.jp I think is the URL |
| 17:59:28 | PerfectCell | i try to do the same thing as milkshape |
| 17:59:42 | PerfectCell | but i will provide a cooler UI |
| 17:59:42 | Patlabor221 | milk shape does vertex animations with it's bones |
| 17:59:49 | PerfectCell | i know |
| 18:00:01 | Patlabor221 | it actualy dosn't do any form of object animations |
| 18:00:12 | Patlabor221 | it's very much aimed at game dev. |
| 18:00:37 | Patlabor221 | sounds like you are going for a "poor mans" 3dsmax |
| 18:00:43 | Patlabor221 | more of a presentaion system |
| 18:00:47 | PerfectCell | my is on visualisation and moving objects around making simple animations, and editing mesh |
| 18:00:55 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 18:01:05 | Patlabor221 | simiar to what DOGA does |
| 18:01:12 | PerfectCell | it should be a control |
| 18:01:17 | Patlabor221 | but they just provide a bunch of premade parts for models |
| 18:01:45 | PerfectCell | i dont want to provide something for the game industry |
| 18:02:04 | Patlabor221 | sounds like it |
| 18:02:21 | Patlabor221 | sounds like your doing it for the rigid body visualtion industry |
| 18:02:43 | Patlabor221 | AKA schools |
| 18:02:48 | PerfectCell | i dont know right know |
| 18:03:34 | Patlabor221 | another bot Tim? |
| 18:03:47 | BZFlag | work in progress. will be the new ibot eventually. |
| 18:04:18 | BZFlag | bbot: bbot is a blootbot based infobot run by BZFlag that will soon replace ibot |
| 18:04:18 | bbot | okay, BZFlag |
| 18:04:26 | BZFlag | bbot: bbot? |
| 18:04:27 | bbot | extra, extra, read all about it, bbot is a blootbot based infobot run by BZFlag that will soon replace ibot |
| 18:04:34 | | a stinkin lousy bot trying to take the almighty ibot's job |
| 18:04:34 | BZFlag | ibot bbot? |
| 18:04:52 | PerfectCell | funny |
| 18:05:06 | BZFlag | he has a lot of stuff that ibot does not, but not yet everything that ibot does have. |
| 18:05:09 | BZFlag | bbot: status |
| 18:05:10 | bbot | Since Tue Oct 29 11:02:39 2002, there have been 1 modification and 1 question and 0 dunnos and 0 morons and 0 commands. I have been awake for 2m 30s this session, and currently reference 4 factoids. I'm using about 10532 kB of memory. |
| 18:05:14 | | Since Mon Oct 28 20:16:23 2002, there have been 32 modifications and 94 questions. I have been awake for 14 hours, 48 minutes, 51 seconds this session, and currently reference 84841 factoids. Addressing is in require mode. |
| 18:05:14 | BZFlag | ibot status |
| 18:05:35 | BZFlag | he's in #infobot and #debian-bots if you want to play with him publically |
| 18:05:50 | Patlabor221 | LOL |
| 18:06:28 | sussudio | bbot start an os war |
| 18:06:28 | bbot | ITS is better than Linux! |
| 18:06:42 | Patlabor221 | I'm not allowed to play wiht young bots. not since the court order. |
| 18:07:38 | BZFlag | hehe. later. |
| 18:10:16 | Patlabor221 | doug you here? do you want the music from cowboy beebop? |
| 18:14:13 | Patlabor221 | bbot: how is it going? |
| 18:14:14 | bbot | Patlabor221: what are you talking about? |
| 18:14:23 | Patlabor221 | bbot: how are you? |
| 18:14:24 | bbot | just great, Patlabor221 |
| 18:14:44 | Patlabor221 | bbot: bobots is Bobots are everywhere. |
| 18:14:44 | bbot | I think you lost me on that one, Patlabor221 |
| 18:15:00 | Patlabor221 | bbot: you suck |
| 18:15:00 | bbot | Patlabor221: are you smoking crack? |
| 18:15:52 | cell_prog_insect | ah, back for good |
| 18:16:34 | cell_prog_insect | just my sister needed the other computer, and i have to disconnect because she has connection sharing |
| 18:17:02 | Patlabor221 | ick modems |
| 18:17:09 | cell_prog_insect | no dsl |
| 18:17:17 | cell_prog_insect | but we dont have a router |
| 18:17:19 | Patlabor221 | then get a router |
| 18:17:23 | Patlabor221 | they are cheap |
| 18:17:27 | Patlabor221 | ubbbbbber cheap |
| 18:17:33 | cell_prog_insect | how much? |
| 18:17:45 | Patlabor221 | like $35-50 |
| 18:18:03 | cell_prog_insect | oh thats k |
| 18:18:10 | Patlabor221 | little d-link or gigafast |
| 18:18:40 | cell_prog_insect | ? |
| 18:18:48 | Patlabor221 | those are the companys |
| 18:19:03 | cell_prog_insect | ah, thanks |
| 18:19:06 | Patlabor221 | http://www.enpc.com/cgi-bin/enpc/DI-604.html?id=ccDzzzKQ |
| 18:19:15 | Patlabor221 | there that's a router and a 4 port stiech |
| 18:19:21 | Patlabor221 | for like $42 |
| 18:19:24 | sussudio | ~yo momma |
| 18:19:24 | bbot | sussudio: I don't know, could you explain it? |
| 18:19:51 | cell_prog_insect | cool i will buy one |
| 18:20:23 | Patlabor221 | set your self up as the DMZ and you can even run a BZ server on those things |
| 18:21:14 | cell_prog_insect | wow, that would be great |
| 18:21:46 | cell_prog_insect | how do i configure it? |
| 18:22:14 | Patlabor221 | it's got a small web server in it |
| 18:22:19 | Patlabor221 | you go to a specific IP |
| 18:22:27 | Patlabor221 | an that gives you all the config into |
| 18:22:40 | Patlabor221 | it's also a full DHCP and DNS server |
| 18:22:56 | sussudio | bbot you suck |
| 18:22:57 | bbot | That'll cost you five dollah mistah! |
| 18:22:57 | Patlabor221 | the things just work |
| 18:23:03 | cell_prog_insect | great |
| 18:23:31 | cell_prog_insect | dbz time, finally |
| 18:25:24 | cell_prog_insect | shit im missing the windows button that minimizes all windows, it was on the taskbar, and i did nothing, dissapeared eventually |
| 18:26:33 | cell_prog_insect | now i have to minimize all open windows manually to reach the desktop |
| 18:26:38 | cell_prog_insect | what a pain |
| 18:26:55 | Patlabor221 | you must have draged it out of the quickbar |
| 18:27:14 | Patlabor221 | that's why you lock the taksbar in XP |
| 18:27:28 | cell_prog_insect | ah |
| 18:27:37 | cell_prog_insect | but i cannot see it anywhere |
| 18:29:16 | cell_prog_insect | whats the prog/exe behind the icone, could u right click it on ur clickbar and go to proprties? |
| 18:30:06 | Patlabor221 | it's a shell command |
| 18:30:12 | Patlabor221 | it's not a shortcut |
| 18:30:26 | Patlabor221 | it's the "show desktop" command |
| 18:30:33 | Patlabor221 | sends it to explorer |
| 18:30:49 | cell_prog_insect | chestal showed me |
| 18:30:58 | cell_prog_insect | but thanks |
| 18:32:48 | Patlabor221 | well in thery this should load a UT file now |
| 18:49:37 | captain_proton | theery |
| 18:51:10 | Patlabor221 | in pratice |
| 18:51:19 | Patlabor221 | a fabazillion errors |
| 19:35:17 | Ruudi | hi |
| 19:42:06 | sussudio | ~beat up doug |
| 19:42:06 | bbot | sussudio: wish i knew |
| 19:42:17 | sussudio | bah |
| 19:45:41 | [TeA|TrEE] | man oh man |
| 19:50:26 | jpablo | dum de dum. |
| 19:52:02 | bzdouggggggg | returns |
| 19:59:51 | bzdouggggggg | woo |
| 19:59:58 | bzdouggggggg | I get 30 free mods points on slashdot |
| 20:01:16 | cell_prog_insect | get that vc7,it displays the super perfect damn correct tooltip when over a tappage, even though i havent supplied any tooltip text string |
| 20:05:12 | Patlabor221 | is away: "Sometimes you just need to place your faith in yourself... Or a 12 guage,10 shot, under/over, millitary issue, Titianium grade shotgun." |
| 20:06:08 | sussudio | ~sing |
| 20:06:08 | bbot | Mr Haankey the christmas poo!!! |
| 20:06:56 | bzdouggggggg | bbot, shutup |
| 20:06:56 | bbot | i haven't a clue, bzdouggggggg |
| 20:07:05 | bzdouggggggg | bbot: shut up |
| 20:07:05 | bbot | bzdouggggggg: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox? |
| 20:07:09 | bzdouggggggg | gah |
| 20:07:11 | sussudio | dreidel dreidel dreidel i made you out of claaaaaaaaay |
| 20:07:17 | bzdouggggggg | its a apt bot! |
| 20:07:29 | sussudio | ~shut up |
| 20:07:29 | bbot | You shut up, sussudio ! |
| 20:08:17 | bzdouggggggg | lo |
| 20:08:18 | bzdouggggggg | lol |
| 20:08:20 | sussudio | dreidel dreidel dreidel compared to christmas gifts you're gay |
| 20:13:59 | cell_prog_insect | gaga |
| 20:15:33 | sussudio | yeah.... that's what watching too much dragonball z does to you |
| 20:15:58 | sussudio | empties cell_prog_insect's drool-bucket |
| 20:16:40 | bzdouggggggg | modded every comment as redundent |
| 20:16:43 | bzdouggggggg | :) |
| 20:16:47 | cell_prog_insect | roger |
| 20:16:49 | bzdouggggggg | my 30 mods are gone |
| 20:17:00 | bzdouggggggg | what is +l? |
| 20:17:01 | | well, cell is the biggest cheat that has now his own 3D math library full off quaternions |
| 20:17:01 | cell_prog_insect | ibot cell |
| 20:17:05 | sussudio | i have REAL mod points :-| |
| 20:17:14 | bzdouggggggg | lol |
| 20:17:20 | cell_prog_insect | cool |
| 20:18:33 | cell_prog_insect | kaka |
| 20:18:44 | bzdouggggggg | ak |
| 20:18:51 | sussudio | hits cell_prog_insect over the head with a pokemon baseball bat |
| 20:19:03 | cell_prog_insect | bah |
| 20:20:00 | sussudio | looks for the cdr with southpark "worldwide recorder concert" |
| 20:20:48 | cell_prog_insect | sorry little sarah, cool song from dieter bohlen, by the way i bought his book:Nichts als die Wahrheit |
| 20:20:59 | sussudio | fuck |
| 20:21:03 | cell_prog_insect | u |
| 20:21:12 | sussudio | dieter 'modern talking 80s nightmar' bohlen |
| 20:21:26 | cell_prog_insect | dont like him, he? |
| 20:21:36 | sussudio | in the dictionary, under 'gay', there's a picture of modern talking |
| 20:21:48 | cell_prog_insect | i look |
| 20:22:01 | cell_prog_insect | not true |
| 20:22:10 | sussudio | it's under 'arsch bumser' in the german dictionary |
| 20:22:18 | cell_prog_insect | ah |
| 20:22:58 | sussudio | punishes cell_prog_insect by locking him in a room with modern talking greatest hits on endless repeat |
| 20:23:03 | cell_prog_insect | aber dieter b. ist bestimmt nicht schwul |
| 20:23:13 | cell_prog_insect | great |
| 20:23:36 | sussudio | feeds doug enormous amounts of mexican food and puts him in the same room |
| 20:23:41 | cell_prog_insect | thats no punishment, but i like blue system more, because there is no thomas anders |
| 20:23:56 | sussudio | BROTHER LOUIE LOUIE *FARTBLUBBER* |
| 20:24:17 | cell_prog_insect | dont like that but do u know:My bed is too big |
| 20:24:23 | cell_prog_insect | thats cool |
| 20:24:27 | sussudio | gah |
| 20:24:32 | cell_prog_insect | ga |
| 20:24:47 | cell_prog_insect | let me listen it now |
| 20:25:29 | cell_prog_insect | sussudio:shall i dcc u the mp3? |
| 20:25:38 | sussudio | i dont think so cell |
| 20:25:47 | cell_prog_insect | shit why not |
| 20:25:54 | sussudio | umm cause it sucks? |
| 20:26:02 | cell_prog_insect | u sure? |
| 20:26:06 | sussudio | yup |
| 20:26:10 | cell_prog_insect | k |
| 20:26:22 | sussudio | there's a reason german bands rarely release songs outside of germany |
| 20:26:53 | cell_prog_insect | i dont think that foreign songs are that better |
| 20:27:06 | sussudio | at least the french know to just dont release ANYTHING outside france |
| 20:28:09 | sussudio | if you hear a french song, it comes from either belgium or quebec |
| 20:28:19 | cell_prog_insect | yes because nobody likes french language, but diether sings in super perfect american english |
| 20:28:31 | cell_prog_insect | hehe |
| 20:28:48 | sussudio | bwurk |
| 20:29:34 | sussudio | on the other hand, dutch television spreads like a smelly plague over the world |
| 20:29:44 | sussudio | apologizes for big brother |
| 20:29:55 | sussudio | apologizes again |
| 20:30:01 | sussudio | blows up some tv studios |
| 20:31:12 | cell_prog_insect | i dont like dutch and holland, and i dont like french too |
| 20:31:35 | sussudio | the feeling is mutual |
| 20:31:44 | captain_proton | is really lurgyman |
| 20:31:44 | cell_prog_insect | then its k |
| 20:31:47 | sussudio | now give me back my bike |
| 20:31:49 | captain_proton | mwa ha ha |
| 20:32:08 | sussudio | is really a hamster |
| 20:32:26 | bzdouggggggg | buwhahaha |
| 20:32:55 | cell_prog_insect | douga:ous amounts of mexican food and puts him in the same room |
| 20:32:55 | cell_prog_insect | <cell_prog_insect> thats no punishment, but i like blue system more, because there |
| 20:33:14 | cell_prog_insect | he |
| 20:35:51 | Patlabor221 | is back (gone 00:30:39) |
| 20:36:31 | Patlabor221 | I see the potty humor is back |
| 20:36:36 | Patlabor221 | then it must be tuesday |
| 20:38:00 | cell_prog_insect | doga:Also, we would like to announce you the new price system. |
| 20:38:09 | cell_prog_insect | haha |
| 20:38:22 | cell_prog_insect | this japs are really funny |
| 20:38:52 | bzdouggggggg | bah |
| 20:39:01 | bzdouggggggg | so, in debian... |
| 20:39:07 | bzdouggggggg | I am trying to install something... |
| 20:39:16 | sussudio | ~poop |
| 20:39:17 | bbot | paints the channel brown |
| 20:39:19 | bzdouggggggg | it has a debpenincy on someting else |
| 20:39:43 | bzdouggggggg | but that something else has a dependency on the very package I am TRYING to install! |
| 20:39:50 | Patlabor221 | what happend to mandrake? |
| 20:39:56 | bzdouggggggg | spits |
| 20:40:05 | cell_prog_insect | is there a gamecube emulator available, i like to play mario sunshine |
| 20:40:31 | Patlabor221 | nope |
| 20:40:45 | Patlabor221 | don't think PCs have enought bandwith to emulate that |
| 20:40:59 | cell_prog_insect | oh, its not that good |
| 20:41:13 | Patlabor221 | it's more then what a PC does |
| 20:41:25 | cell_prog_insect | do u really think so |
| 20:41:28 | Patlabor221 | I know so |
| 20:41:49 | Patlabor221 | all the consosoles have there own high speed busses |
| 20:41:51 | cell_prog_insect | hm, then im impressed |
| 20:42:23 | Patlabor221 | hell on the x-box there is no difrence between system ram, video ram, and texuture ram |
| 20:42:25 | Patlabor221 | it's all the same |
| 20:43:11 | cell_prog_insect | on the x-box i thought its a mini pc |
| 20:43:17 | cell_prog_insect | using geforce3 |
| 20:43:19 | bzdouggggggg | cell_prog_insect: nooo |
| 20:43:32 | cell_prog_insect | he? |
| 20:43:49 | bzdouggggggg | its all microsofted! :P |
| 20:44:03 | cell_prog_insect | why u have so many ggggggggggggggggggggg in ur name |
| 20:44:16 | bzdouggggggg | dunnnnooooo |
| 20:44:35 | cell_prog_insect | u fall on the g key with ur face |
| 20:44:41 | bzdougg | lol |
| 20:44:55 | cell_prog_insect | with ur nose |
| 20:45:27 | cell_prog_insect | doug = douglas |
| 20:45:47 | cell_prog_insect | thats what my lexicon says |
| 20:45:51 | Patlabor221 | no relay doug what hapend to mandarake? |
| 20:45:59 | bzdougg | I put debian on |
| 20:46:11 | Patlabor221 | didn't like mandrake? |
| 20:46:14 | bzdougg | since its too hard to get billions of packages updated to do anything |
| 20:46:22 | bzdougg | well, its easy and all to setup |
| 20:46:27 | bzdougg | but its got old things |
| 20:46:44 | bzdougg | but then I might need to upgrade to mandrake <fill in latest number> |
| 20:46:47 | Patlabor221 | and your gonna replace it with rh8 later? |
| 20:46:57 | bzdougg | maybe |
| 20:47:04 | bzdougg | WOAH! I have 50 mod points! |
| 20:49:43 | bzdougg | yay |
| 20:49:48 | bzdougg | this is too easy... |
| 20:49:54 | bzdougg | apt-get libc6 and it updates |
| 20:50:28 | bzdougg | lets try this again.... |
| 20:50:37 | bzdougg | yea.... |
| 20:51:17 | bzdougg | bah |
| 20:51:19 | bzdougg | same error |
| 20:52:00 | bzdougg | X Error of failed request: BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes |
| 20:53:09 | bzdougg | check it out |
| 20:53:10 | bzdougg | http://brak.slashdot.org/ |
| 20:53:14 | bzdougg | stupid comments |
| 20:57:10 | Patlabor221 | doug do you want the cowboy beebop music? |
| 20:57:39 | bzdougg | just fainted |
| 20:58:00 | bzdougg | um... sure, if its not nasty music |
| 20:58:04 | bzdougg | :) |
| 20:58:31 | Patlabor221 | 366 megs |
| 20:58:38 | bzdougg | ick |
| 20:58:51 | bzdougg | shrugs |
| 20:58:51 | Patlabor221 | 6 CDs |
| 20:59:01 | bzdougg | as long as I can get 100 kbs it should be fine... |
| 20:59:20 | Patlabor221 | I don't think you EVER get 100 on your dsl :) |
| 20:59:30 | Patlabor221 | but you may get close in the evening to here |
| 20:59:30 | bzdougg | I do |
| 20:59:40 | bzdougg | I got 150 yesterday |
| 20:59:43 | bzdougg | hmm |
| 20:59:44 | bzdougg | yea |
| 21:00:20 | Patlabor221 | aron't you limited to 1.1 down? |
| 21:00:57 | bzdougg | dont know, but I DID see 150 kbs down from debians website |
| 21:01:03 | bzdougg | and it was steady too |
| 21:01:30 | bzdougg | any one know of a good video4linux client? |
| 21:01:39 | Patlabor221 | hmm that would be one way to make your OS look faster. multiply all transfer rates byt 1.2 or somethign :) |
| 21:02:00 | bzdougg | shrugs |
| 21:02:08 | bzdougg | at least it was faster than normal |
| 21:02:17 | bzdougg | bah |
| 21:02:22 | bzdougg | this aint v4l |
| 21:02:28 | bzdougg | its something else... |
| 21:02:53 | Patlabor221 | p4l? |
| 21:03:37 | ak|ra | ibot: bzflist |
| 21:03:37 | | ak|ra: bzflag.noodleroni.com:5155(1) 66.207.0.59:5164(8) chardonnay.math.bme.hu:5155(15) 24.194.98.76:5155(5) turkey.moongroup.com:7500(21) ducati.bzflag.org:5156(6) |
| 21:03:39 | bzdougg | video4linux |
| 21:03:50 | Patlabor221 | Porn4Linux |
| 21:05:56 | Patlabor221 | is away: "I don't care if it's God's own personal Anti-Son-Of-A-Bitch machine, or a giant hulla hoop. We are not going to let them have it." |
| 21:09:21 | Patlabor221 | is back (gone 00:03:24) |
| 21:23:16 | methuselah | hello all |
| 21:51:38 | [TeA|TrEE] | (6) |
| 21:55:02 | [TeA|TrEE] | night all |
| 22:02:21 | sussudio | http://www.theonion.com/onion3840/headache-relief_tips.html |
| 22:04:10 | bzdougg | lol |
| 22:04:52 | sussudio | we built this city on rock and roll........ |
| 22:05:00 | sussudio | damned |
| 22:14:45 | bzdougg | hohoho |
| 22:14:46 | bzdougg | http://heckaman.bzflag.org/ad.JPG |
| 22:18:11 | Patlabor221 | too bad that only works on people who aren't nated |
| 22:18:14 | Patlabor221 | or firewalled |
| 22:18:25 | bzdougg | lol |
| 22:19:17 | Patlabor221 | heck it may even not work over ppoe |
| 22:20:30 | Patlabor221 | wonder if there is some way to limit mapi to a single subnet |
| 22:20:47 | bzdougg | hmm |
| 22:20:59 | bzdougg | sighs |
| 22:21:10 | Patlabor221 | and they say it's anonomouse |
| 22:21:16 | Patlabor221 | how can that work for an add |
| 22:21:24 | Patlabor221 | if you don't know who sent the add |
| 22:21:26 | bzdougg | I STILL cant boot my 2000 server cd! |
| 22:21:35 | bzdougg | bah |
| 22:21:38 | Patlabor221 | where are you gonna go to buy the thing they are selling. |
| 22:21:44 | bzdougg | I tried floppies... |
| 22:21:52 | bzdougg | I tried burning a new cd.... |
| 22:21:55 | bzdougg | but noooo |
| 22:21:59 | bzdougg | nothing works |
| 22:22:05 | bzdougg | and I have to get it running by tonight |
| 22:22:16 | Patlabor221 | what happens if you don't? |
| 22:22:32 | bzdougg | hm |
| 22:22:34 | bzdougg | dont know |
| 22:22:50 | Patlabor221 | will "they" come break your legs? |
| 22:23:27 | Patlabor221 | isn't it your computer? |
| 22:24:06 | bzdougg | no |
| 22:24:07 | bzdougg | :P |
| 22:24:20 | Patlabor221 | why are you puting warz OS's on it? |
| 22:24:51 | Patlabor221 | are they paying you to set it up? |
| 22:25:24 | bzdougg | no |
| 22:25:48 | bzdougg | this is that debian computer |
| 22:26:02 | Patlabor221 | and it's not yours |
| 22:26:14 | Patlabor221 | and they want 2k and debian? |
| 22:26:16 | bzdougg | and he called up saying to install 2000 on it so he can show someone how VPNs works |
| 22:27:00 | Patlabor221 | the 2k install will wipe debian |
| 22:27:05 | bzdougg | he lent me this computer so I could make a dublicate linux box that he has at work, so I could break things while he can learn from my mistakes |
| 22:27:07 | bzdougg | so? |
| 22:27:11 | bzdougg | I can reinstall it |
| 22:27:22 | Patlabor221 | boot from the win98 flopy |
| 22:27:29 | Patlabor221 | then install from the CD |
| 22:27:32 | bzdougg | hmm |
| 22:27:42 | bzdougg | looks for his 98 boot floppy |
| 22:27:55 | Patlabor221 | or get a real 2k CD |
| 22:28:04 | Patlabor221 | not the crap from that combo CD |
| 22:28:12 | bzdougg | shrugs |
| 22:28:41 | bzdougg | gets a evil idea |
| 22:28:56 | bzdougg | install NT, then upgrade to server! |
| 22:29:07 | Patlabor221 | upgrades suck |
| 22:29:34 | bzdougg | shrugs |
| 22:30:44 | bzdougg | upgrading to 2000 from NT 4 just about replaces everything |
| 22:31:22 | Patlabor221 | it's the jsut about part that isn not so good |
| 22:31:55 | bzdougg | :) |
| 22:32:05 | bzdougg | cleans his NT cd and tries again |
| 22:34:36 | | bzdougg? |
| 22:34:36 | bzdougg | ibot? |
| 22:34:38 | bzdougg | hmm |
| 22:35:35 | bzdougg | is google down? |
| 22:35:40 | | bzdougg: sorry... |
| 22:35:40 | bzdougg | ibot ping google.xom |
| 22:35:44 | | pong |
| 22:35:44 | bzdougg | ibot ping |
| 22:35:52 | bzdougg | ibot nslookup google.com |
| 22:35:52 | | google.com is 216.239.51.100 |
| 22:45:58 | bzdougg | 5th floppy so far! |
| 22:49:27 | scan[pg] | whee |
| 22:50:17 | bzdougg | pg? |
| 22:50:24 | scan[pg] | xchat-picogui |
| 22:50:31 | bzdougg | ick |
| 22:50:33 | ak|ra | ibot: bzflist |
| 22:50:33 | | ak|ra: ducati.bzflag.org:5155(1) bzflag.noodleroni.com:5155(3) 24.80.130.30:5155(2) jzaun.com:5155(6) 66.207.0.59:5164(9) chardonnay.math.bme.hu:5155(14) turkey.moongroup.com:7500(12) ducati.bzflag.org:5156(7) |
| 22:50:37 | scan[pg] | ick? |
| 22:50:40 | bzdougg | real people use mirc |
| 22:50:43 | bzdougg | grins |
| 22:50:53 | scan[pg] | kills bzdougg |
| 22:51:05 | scan[pg] | http://picogui.org/download/xchat_pgedit.png |
| 22:51:10 | bzdougg | hohoho |
| 22:52:07 | scan[pg] | all the fun features of xchat, portable to any platform picogui supports :) |
| 22:52:09 | here_piggy_piggy | I have some nice chicken for you! |
| 22:52:14 | bzdougg | windowS? |
| 22:52:39 | scan[pg] | bzdougg: maybe.. I've heard reports of people using picogui on windows, but I've never tried it |
| 22:53:08 | bzdougg | hmm |
| 22:53:11 | bzdougg | BAH |
| 22:53:25 | bzdougg | this program cannot be run in DOS mode |
| 22:53:25 | scan[pg] | I don't even have windows |
| 22:53:40 | bzdougg | how I am supposed to install 2000 from a cd? |
| 22:53:42 | scan[pg] | well, not a working copy anyway.... but that doesn't matter |
| 22:53:45 | bzdougg | from a boot floppy? |
| 22:53:54 | scan[pg] | boot off the CD? |
| 22:54:05 | bzdougg | no |
| 22:54:21 | scan[pg] | AFAIK all versions of windows newer than 95 install by booting off the CD |
| 22:54:44 | bzdougg | nope |
| 22:54:51 | bzdougg | not MSDN versions |
| 22:54:57 | Patlabor221 | don't liek doug |
| 22:55:05 | Patlabor221 | just the ones on combo disks |
| 22:55:15 | Patlabor221 | the singles are bootable |
| 22:55:25 | Patlabor221 | he just has a crap rip |
| 22:55:50 | Patlabor221 | even 95 was bootable |
| 22:56:09 | bzdougg | shrugs |
| 22:56:14 | scan[pg] | I'd only used the 95 upgrade CDs, and those weren't bootable |
| 22:56:22 | Patlabor221 | the upgrades no |
| 22:56:30 | Patlabor221 | since you were allready suposed to have an OS |
| 22:56:36 | Patlabor221 | doug dont' shrug, think. |
| 22:56:38 | scan[pg] | nods |
| 22:56:55 | scan[pg] | hmm |
| 22:57:12 | scan[pg] | wonders why bbot keeps adjusting the channel limit... to prevent lots of people from joining at once? |
| 22:57:28 | Patlabor221 | I odn't know |
| 22:57:33 | bzdougg | hmm |
| 22:57:33 | Patlabor221 | it's a new bot tim just put in |
| 22:57:42 | bzdougg | ~sing |
| 22:57:43 | bbot | Mr Haankey the christmas poo!!! |
| 22:57:47 | bzdougg | lol |
| 22:57:49 | scan[pg] | yes, blootbot |
| 22:57:54 | Patlabor221 | thanks bbot |
| 22:58:04 | Patlabor221 | bloot? |
| 22:58:10 | scan[pg] | bbot: who are you? |
| 22:58:11 | bbot | scan[pg]: what are you talking about? |
| 22:58:20 | scan[pg] | hmm.. guess it works a bit different than an infobot |
| 22:58:50 | bzdougg | BAH!!! |
| 22:58:56 | bzdougg | shoots fdisk |
| 22:59:13 | bzdougg | it wont let me delete the partions... |
| 22:59:18 | scan[pg] | suggests bzdougg get a real OS instead of using stolen copies of a MS one :) |
| 22:59:28 | bzdougg | is there any mode that will just erase everything |
| 22:59:38 | sussudio | ~who's your daddy? |
| 22:59:38 | Patlabor221 | magnets |
| 22:59:38 | bbot | Daddy ButtBott |
| 22:59:54 | bzdougg | lol |
| 23:00:16 | sussudio | i find that a hammer will do a total erase on a harddisk |
| 23:00:47 | sussudio | that or installing win98 on it |
| 23:00:55 | bzdougg | i find that a hammer will also do a total erase on sussudio's head |
| 23:02:42 | sussudio | ~dougcrush |
| 23:02:42 | bbot | beats doug repeatedly in the groin while dancing to the nutcracker suite |
| 23:05:05 | bzdougg | sheesh |
| 23:05:14 | bzdougg | it says I have a EXT DOS partiotion |
| 23:05:21 | bzdougg | and I try to delete that |
| 23:05:32 | bzdougg | but it says theres a logical partition |
| 23:05:41 | bzdougg | so I try to delete that |
| 23:05:50 | bzdougg | but there aint no logical partion |
| 23:05:58 | sussudio | haha |
| 23:07:02 | bzdougg | wonders whats under A:\ZEROFILL |
| 23:07:04 | Patlabor221 | get the low level tools from the drive mfg |
| 23:07:09 | bzdougg | wipe.com.... |
| 23:07:10 | bzdougg | hmm |
| 23:07:35 | sussudio | hm wipe.com |
| 23:07:47 | sussudio | sounds like a fecalphile site |
| 23:08:21 | sussudio | just dd the fucker |
| 23:08:38 | sussudio | dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda1 |
| 23:09:07 | bzdougg | there it goes... |
| 23:09:21 | bzdougg | Cyl 4 hd 200 sec 1 |
| 23:09:30 | bzdougg | should take awhile no? |
| 23:10:41 | bzdougg | hah |
| 23:10:41 | ak|ra | ibot: bzflist |
| 23:10:41 | | ak|ra: bzflag.noodleroni.com:5155(5) 24.80.130.30:5155(3) jzaun.com:5155(9) 66.207.0.59:5164(6) chardonnay.math.bme.hu:5155(18) 24.194.98.76:5155(2) turkey.moongroup.com:7500(9) ducati.bzflag.org:5156(4) bzbody.dedicatedpenguin.com:5155(1) |
| 23:10:45 | bzdougg | that too care of it |
| 23:10:49 | bzdougg | bbot bzflist |
| 23:10:50 | bbot | bzdougg: bugger all, i dunno |
| 23:10:53 | bzdougg | hmm |
| 23:13:51 | sussudio | http://store.yahoo.com/brandsonsale-store/pimdadsuitch.html |
| 23:13:55 | sussudio | that's doug. |
| 23:15:15 | bzdougg | assumes rebooting is required after installing drivers |
| 23:17:44 | sussudio | :-R |
| 23:18:02 | sussudio | http://www.corbinmotors.com/products_merlinroadster.html |
| 23:19:01 | bzdougg | slicker than deer guts on a door knob |
| 23:20:03 | bzdougg | yay |
| 23:20:12 | bzdougg | windows 2000 begins the install |
| 23:21:18 | bzdougg | still no sound... |
| 23:41:00 | bzdougg | wow |
| 23:41:00 | bzdougg | I can update my mios from inside of windows |
| 23:41:17 | bzdougg | bois |
| 23:41:17 | bzdougg | bios |
| 23:43:25 | bzdougg | how fast is the XP2600+? |
| 23:44:00 | Patlabor221 | I don't recall |
| 23:44:09 | bzdougg | above 2ghz? |
| 23:44:10 | Patlabor221 | it uses a 166 fsb tho |
| 23:44:19 | bzdougg | my mobo supports it |
| 23:44:19 | Patlabor221 | yeah I think is |
| 23:44:23 | Patlabor221 | most do |
| 23:44:31 | Patlabor221 | least the good ones do |
| 23:44:31 | bzdougg | it needs a BIOS update though... |
| 23:44:35 | captain_proton | Patlabor221: the monster is becoming a reality |
| 23:44:36 | Patlabor221 | you got the MSI right? |
| 23:44:39 | bzdougg | yea |
| 23:44:45 | bzdougg | and its MSI live update |
| 23:44:49 | Patlabor221 | what moster cap? we have many? |
| 23:44:54 | bzdougg | updates my bios and drivers and stuff from windows |
| 23:45:07 | bzdougg | captain_proton: so you are using firewire now? |
| 23:45:10 | captain_proton | i got the circuit diagram for a single-drive mostly finished today, going to get that working then fab the backplane |
| 23:45:12 | captain_proton | bzdougg: yeah |
| 23:45:17 | bzdougg | ooh |
| 23:45:20 | captain_proton | the firewire bridges were cheap |
| 23:45:21 | Patlabor221 | very cool |
| 23:45:35 | Patlabor221 | I have a wavy flag in BZflagXL |
| 23:45:44 | bzdougg | yay |
| 23:45:52 | Patlabor221 | a soon to be environement maped wavy flag. |
| 23:46:07 | bzdougg | ? |
| 23:46:09 | bzdougg | hows that work? |
| 23:46:09 | captain_proton | ooh |
| 23:46:33 | Patlabor221 | environement maping? |
| 23:46:33 | captain_proton | lubs environment mapping |
| 23:46:35 | bzdougg | yea |
| 23:46:36 | Patlabor221 | well this is fake E maping |
| 23:46:37 | Patlabor221 | you give it the e texture |
| 23:46:41 | bzdougg | yea? |
| 23:46:45 | Patlabor221 | it's not like full blown reflections |
| 23:46:49 | bzdougg | ah |
| 23:46:56 | bzdougg | but still "cool" lookin? |
| 23:47:17 | Patlabor221 | well if I can get photopsho 7 to save a flipin alpha channel it will be |
| 23:47:32 | bzdougg | lol |
| 23:47:45 | bzdougg | I used gimp to save my alpha channels |
| 23:48:00 | Patlabor221 | PS 6 worked fine |
| 23:48:07 | bzdougg | hmm |
| 23:48:14 | Patlabor221 | they busted the TGA FileIO plugin |
| 23:48:16 | Patlabor221 | in 7 |
| 23:48:28 | bzdougg | heh |
| 23:48:39 | Patlabor221 | but they also fixed it |
| 23:48:47 | Patlabor221 | that's why I like plugins :) |
| 23:48:53 | bzdougg | lol |
