| 00:00:04 | vogon_jeltz | is back (gone 09:50:57) |
| 00:00:11 | captain_proton | wb vogon_jeltz |
| 00:00:26 | vogon_jeltz | hey, cappy |
| 00:00:31 | jacques | captain_proton: you made the decks map? |
| 00:00:36 | captain_proton | jacques: no |
| 00:02:01 | jacques | captain_proton: heh I thouhgt you did :-) |
| 00:02:11 | jacques | captain_proton: so that map is available for other server to run? |
| 00:02:15 | captain_proton | jacques: a good friend of mine did - he doesn't play much |
| 00:02:22 | jacques | aaah |
| 00:02:28 | jacques | he's an excellent map builder |
| 00:02:29 | captain_proton | jacques: yeah, but whenever other servers try to run it nobody plays because they're all laggy |
| 00:02:37 | jacques | understood |
| 00:03:51 | jacques | captain_proton: butif somone wanted to run it on a lan or something? |
| 00:04:27 | captain_proton | jacques: its in the world file tracker on sf |
| 00:05:39 | jacques | captain_proton: thanks |
| 00:07:33 | jacques | do any maps come with the source? and if so where are they? |
| 00:07:43 | captain_proton | um |
| 00:07:47 | captain_proton | come with the source? |
| 00:07:47 | captain_proton | huh? |
| 00:07:51 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 00:07:57 | captain_proton | vogon_jeltz: like the topic? ;) |
| 00:08:00 | vogon_jeltz | jacques: the maps are interpreted, not compiled |
| 00:08:08 | vogon_jeltz | not really ;) |
| 00:08:27 | vogon_jeltz | why is it like that, pray tell? :P |
| 00:08:41 | captain_proton | because i felt like it ? |
| 00:08:46 | vogon_jeltz | ahh |
| 00:10:10 | jacques | vogon_jeltz: ah thanks |
| 00:10:25 | jacques | didnt know they were interpreted in 1.7 |
| 00:35:02 | jacques | hey... |
| 00:35:19 | jacques | does the cvs client use a different spawn algo than e4 ? |
| 00:35:31 | captain_proton | perhaps |
| 00:35:36 | captain_proton | thought |
| 00:35:45 | captain_proton | i think that patch made it into e4 |
| 00:36:15 | jacques | when did e4 come out? |
| 00:36:22 | jacques | after 11-8-2001 ? |
| 00:36:22 | captain_proton | look at the date |
| 00:36:56 | jacques | really recently looks like then |
| 01:06:27 | jacques | hi iLLf8d :-) |
| 01:06:43 | iLLf8d | how goes it |
| 01:09:05 | jacques | not bad |
| 01:09:20 | jacques | was having fun on decks earlier today |
| 01:09:24 | iLLf8d | cool |
| 01:09:30 | iLLf8d | i'm getting burned out on bz lately |
| 01:09:58 | iLLf8d | wish ppls would at least run more custom maps even if they're not mine heh, theres a ton of them floating around |
| 01:09:59 | jacques | :-( |
| 01:10:15 | jacques | i have only seen like 3 FFA maps |
| 01:10:21 | iLLf8d | yeah |
| 01:10:27 | iLLf8d | whats FFA? |
| 01:10:29 | jacques | actually 4 |
| 01:10:34 | jacques | free-for-all |
| 01:10:36 | iLLf8d | ah |
| 01:10:43 | jacques | 4 including assault |
| 01:10:54 | iLLf8d | you mean ffa=custom? |
| 01:11:12 | iLLf8d | seems a ton of ppl run stock maps |
| 01:11:24 | iLLf8d | then theres decks gerbs assult, and like 2 others |
| 01:11:40 | iLLf8d | I should have a server up w/in a day or so tho |
| 01:12:01 | jacques | no i just mean ffa == deathmatch |
| 01:12:06 | iLLf8d | will have a cron job switch maps ever 1.5 hours or so probably (or maybe a little less often) |
| 01:12:11 | jacques | what's a stock map? |
| 01:12:22 | iLLf8d | just the buildings sprawled everywhere |
| 01:12:38 | jacques | ah, are those randomly generated? |
| 01:12:43 | iLLf8d | yeah |
| 01:12:51 | jacques | aaah, i begin to understand |
| 01:12:52 | iLLf8d | lemme make some screenshots of mine i'll postem forya |
| 01:13:03 | jacques | coool |
| 01:13:07 | jacques | i love screenies |
| 01:13:21 | jacques | i need ot checkout bzedit |
| 01:21:57 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 01:24:10 | jacques | ? |
| 01:28:48 | iLLf8d | uhm |
| 01:28:50 | iLLf8d | lemme up them |
| 01:29:00 | iLLf8d | some are hard to tell with just a screenshot |
| 01:29:07 | iLLf8d | the coolest one doesn't look so hot heh |
| 01:33:32 | scanline | is away: food-like thingies... |
| 01:39:09 | jacques | yeah a single 2d projection of a 3d object rarely tells the whole story |
| 01:39:35 | jacques | why not upload some movies of you driving through the maps :-) |
| 01:40:31 | iLLf8d | ok |
| 01:40:35 | iLLf8d | http://home.pacbell.net/l8tr/bzworld.html |
| 01:40:37 | iLLf8d | yeah sure heh |
| 01:40:38 | iLLf8d | =P |
| 01:40:47 | iLLf8d | you'll be able to play them soon |
| 01:40:51 | iLLf8d | once my server is up |
| 01:41:02 | jacques | :-D |
| 01:41:11 | iLLf8d | those are actually 3d views |
| 01:41:20 | iLLf8d | may take a while for hte page to load tho |
| 01:41:26 | iLLf8d | theres a number of maps on it |
| 01:41:48 | jacques | holy cow |
| 01:42:06 | iLLf8d | its about 1.3M of graphcis |
| 01:42:40 | iLLf8d | do you have a fast connection? |
| 01:42:45 | jacques | those are amazing |
| 01:42:50 | jacques | at work I have a t1 |
| 01:43:04 | iLLf8d | ah nice |
| 01:43:08 | iLLf8d | thanks =) |
| 01:43:13 | jacques | what did you use to model them? |
| 01:43:17 | iLLf8d | bzedit |
| 01:43:24 | iLLf8d | caps progie |
| 01:43:31 | iLLf8d | works quite well if you get the latest version from him |
| 01:43:35 | iLLf8d | its alot less buggy that way |
| 01:43:47 | jacques | i just built the cvs version but havent really tried it |
| 01:43:55 | jacques | latest is not in cvs? |
| 01:44:11 | iLLf8d | I dunno really |
| 01:44:20 | iLLf8d | I mentioned I had 2.0 to him |
| 01:44:27 | iLLf8d | and he said your really can't go by that heh |
| 01:44:28 | iLLf8d | =P |
| 01:44:33 | iLLf8d | so who knoew |
| 01:44:36 | iLLf8d | knows heh |
| 01:44:58 | iLLf8d | try to build your worlds in one quadrant |
| 01:45:12 | iLLf8d | then copy it with vim or something |
| 01:46:24 | iLLf8d | lemme see if I can find gerbs league world |
| 01:46:35 | iLLf8d | his are much prettier tho often alot less playable |
| 01:46:46 | iLLf8d | its really tough to make one pretty and fun to play |
| 01:47:00 | iLLf8d | in my experience |
| 01:47:06 | jacques | heh |
| 01:47:21 | jacques | would imagine a lot of testing is involved |
| 01:47:33 | jacques | play-testing |
| 01:48:19 | iLLf8d | hmm I must've wiped it out |
| 01:48:25 | iLLf8d | uhm ehh |
| 01:48:29 | iLLf8d | you get a feel for it |
| 01:48:40 | iLLf8d | it all depends on the type of person |
| 01:48:57 | iLLf8d | seems that gerb and I are almost diametric opposites when it comes to building |
| 01:49:17 | iLLf8d | I talk with him tons and really enjoy seeing what he creates |
| 01:50:59 | iLLf8d | I should show you some of the cool looking ones tho suckyplayable |
| 01:51:05 | iLLf8d | lemme show you uhm |
| 01:51:09 | iLLf8d | i'll up it gimme a sec |
| 01:56:02 | iLLf8d | http://home.pacbell.net/l8tr/world/stadium_funk.jpg |
| 01:56:19 | iLLf8d | cool looking sucky playable |
| 02:06:47 | captain_proton | iLLf8d: 'tricon' looks SWEET |
| 02:07:12 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 02:07:18 | iLLf8d | not sure which it is lemme look |
| 02:11:57 | iLLf8d | tricon looks nice doesn't play overly well tho |
| 02:12:11 | iLLf8d | no reason to go into the cones either really |
| 02:12:38 | iLLf8d | I think i'm gonna make a mega sneaky world |
| 02:12:45 | iLLf8d | something thats like a giant puzzle |
| 02:18:19 | scanline | is back (gone 00:44:47) |
| 02:35:22 | captain_proton | hi tim\ |
| 02:35:25 | jacques | hi BZFlag |
| 02:35:39 | BZFlag | heya |
| 02:36:28 | jacques | how much RAM does a bzflag server require? |
| 02:36:48 | captain_proton | 2? |
| 02:36:50 | vogon_jeltz | 12 and a half bytes |
| 02:37:45 | jacques | ?? |
| 02:37:52 | jacques | did i ask the question wrong? |
| 02:38:11 | captain_proton | <vogon_jeltz> yes, you did |
| 02:38:21 | jacques | sigh |
| 02:38:35 | captain_proton | <vogon_jeltz> you ought to have asked "how many more sticks of ram should I buy to run this server?" |
| 02:39:16 | jacques | what is the memory footprint of a bzflag server process running a stock map? |
| 02:39:29 | captain_proton | small |
| 02:39:43 | jacques | 4MB? 8MB? 1MB? |
| 02:40:09 | jacques | i wanna know if I have any hope of running a server on a tuxscreen |
| 02:40:17 | vogon_jeltz | !?!?!?!?!?!?!?! |
| 02:40:19 | jacques | with a total of 16MB RAM |
| 02:40:29 | captain_proton | thats enough |
| 02:40:42 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 02:40:46 | jacques | cool |
| 02:40:52 | vogon_jeltz | jacques: you know, you can always use ps to figure it out |
| 02:41:10 | jacques | but then i would have to read the docs and figure out how to start one |
| 02:41:32 | jacques | and I dont know if the footprint varies wildly with number of active users, map, etc |
| 02:41:43 | captain_proton | why do you want to run it on a tux? |
| 02:41:45 | jacques | i thought ppl here would have good ballpark numbers |
| 02:41:56 | jacques | why not? |
| 02:41:59 | captain_proton | um |
| 02:42:00 | vogon_jeltz | OK, it will take one vogon of RAM |
| 02:42:05 | jacques | i have 4 tuxes |
| 02:42:06 | captain_proton | there are these things called computers |
| 02:42:14 | vogon_jeltz | where "vogon" is defined as the amount of RAM that bzfs takes up |
| 02:42:14 | captain_proton | that are actually supposed to run servers and stuff |
| 02:42:18 | jacques | tuxes cost $99 |
| 02:42:24 | jacques | computers cost more |
| 02:42:34 | jacques | i have 4 tuxes sitting around |
| 02:42:35 | captain_proton | i'm betting you already have a computer or 3 |
| 02:42:43 | jacques | yes but they are doing stuff |
| 02:43:07 | jacques | i also just think it would be cool |
| 02:43:18 | captain_proton | hrm |
| 02:43:32 | jacques | what's wrong with that? |
| 02:43:34 | captain_proton | i guess its just natural for me to choose the appropriate device =| |
| 02:43:43 | captain_proton | i'm an engineer at heart |
| 02:43:59 | jacques | boy sometimes you can be really contrary |
| 02:44:11 | jacques | apparently for thehell of it |
| 02:44:47 | captain_proton | haha |
| 02:44:52 | captain_proton | i misclicked in yahoo go |
| 02:45:05 | captain_proton | and the guy just spent a minute trying to figure out what the hell i was doing |
| 02:46:45 | captain_proton | it all works out though =) |
| 03:29:53 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: you do much work with libxml? |
| 03:30:06 | captain_proton | vogon_jeltz: i looked at SAX and decided not to |
| 03:30:10 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 03:30:18 | captain_proton | vogon_jeltz: i mostly use a older incarnation of XMLTree |
| 03:30:22 | vogon_jeltz | attempts to learn libxml |
| 03:32:33 | BZFlag | jacques: probably around 2M at present. |
| 03:32:49 | jacques | BZFlag: I realize the size will go up in 1.8 |
| 03:32:56 | BZFlag | if you compiled bzfs with a lower max players and non-debug it will be smaller. |
| 03:33:07 | jacques | iiinteresting |
| 03:33:11 | BZFlag | yes 1.8 will be larger and will need more processing power. |
| 03:33:24 | jacques | my home connection cant handle more than 4-5 external players anyway |
| 03:33:47 | BZFlag | right, so change MaxPlayers down to like 8 (from 40) and that will same some ram. |
| 03:34:35 | jacques | cool |
| 03:37:20 | jacques | now I just gotta keep buggin andersee until he gets the c++ toolchain completely working |
| 03:38:21 | BZFlag | heh |
| 03:38:25 | jacques | does anyone know if bzflag builds with g++3 ? |
| 03:38:43 | captain_proton | jacques: um...you need to add std:: in a few places |
| 03:38:56 | captain_proton | jacques: also remove an ios:: flag from a couple places |
| 03:39:04 | jacques | heh. arg. been > decade since I did c++ |
| 03:39:07 | captain_proton | it takes maybe 10 minutes of compile/fix to get it to work |
| 03:39:15 | jacques | captain_proton: that's not so bad |
| 03:39:31 | captain_proton | no, its not |
| 03:39:39 | jacques | i bet c++ these days bears little resemblance to what I used |
| 03:39:46 | captain_proton | well |
| 03:39:51 | jacques | g++ 0.9 something |
| 03:39:51 | captain_proton | all the STL stuff is new |
| 03:39:59 | captain_proton | but C++ has been the same for a long time |
| 03:40:17 | jacques | i thught they kept upping the ANSI? |
| 03:40:23 | captain_proton | yeah |
| 03:40:30 | captain_proton | but most of those features aren't used in 1.7 |
| 03:40:35 | jacques | ah |
| 03:40:57 | jacques | I assume 1.7 uses the libstdc++ ? |
| 03:41:02 | captain_proton | yep |
| 03:42:18 | jacques | ok, so I do need to wait on the toolchain |
| 03:44:24 | captain_proton | if its not dependent on libstdc++, its C |
| 03:44:38 | scanline | is away: meeting |
| 03:47:58 | jacques | hmmm, andersee implied that there was c++ which did not need libstdc++ |
| 03:48:16 | captain_proton | i suppose if you write programs that are essentially C |
| 03:48:26 | captain_proton | but have variable declarations in the middle & stuff |
| 03:48:41 | captain_proton | but that means you can't use classes, or new/delete, etc |
| 03:48:45 | jacques | yeah, I didn;t think there would be any real examples of suck code |
| 03:48:52 | jacques | any == many |
| 03:48:59 | jacques | suck == such |
| 03:53:50 | BZFlag | actually, new/delete works iirc. |
| 03:54:06 | BZFlag | I wrote quite a bit of c++ code that did not need stl |
| 03:55:05 | jacques | BZFlag: yeah but I built the toolchain a few days ago and found more problems |
| 03:55:24 | jacques | BZFlag: last I heard he was having ctype problems - not sure exactly what |
| 03:58:46 | captain_proton | BZFlag: but new and delete are implemented in libstdc++ |
| 04:01:39 | jacques | BZFlag: heh, hen I tried the toolchain, andersee had not tried building it as a cross-compiler yet |
| 04:02:19 | jacques | coool |
| 04:02:23 | jacques | andersee posted this today: |
| 04:02:27 | jacques | It works ok for x86. There is still one piece missing for |
| 04:02:27 | jacques | building an ARM cross compiler. I'm working on it, and hope |
| 04:02:27 | jacques | to finish that off after I get a little sleep. |
| 04:02:27 | jacques | -Erik |
| 04:05:37 | BZFlag | captain_proton: yeah? I thought new and delete were in the gcc libaries, not stdc++ |
| 04:06:07 | BZFlag | at least with gcc. |
| 04:10:22 | scanline | is back (gone 00:25:44) |
| 04:13:42 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 04:13:50 | captain_proton | anybody know of a good music notation program for leenoox? |
| 04:21:41 | BZFlag | captain_proton: rosegarden? |
| 04:23:31 | captain_proton | if it were only gnome/gtk it would be perfect =) |
| 05:18:51 | captain_proton | wheee |
| 05:30:04 | jacques | hmm, I build 1.7 cvs and am getting "error connecting to server" on decks |
| 05:30:14 | captain_proton | there's a reason for that |
| 05:30:28 | jacques | ok, what is the reason? |
| 05:30:30 | captain_proton | try now |
| 05:30:52 | jacques | that worked |
| 05:31:04 | jacques | did you lock it to 1.7e4? |
| 05:31:11 | captain_proton | huh? |
| 05:31:20 | captain_proton | there's no way to lock it to a specific version |
| 05:31:25 | jacques | what was the reason? |
| 05:31:38 | captain_proton | nvidia drivers crashed |
| 05:31:40 | captain_proton | had to reboot |
| 05:31:48 | captain_proton | and didn't restart bzfs |
| 05:35:40 | jacques | :-) |
| 05:36:02 | jacques | too bad about the nvidia drivers - are they the binary ones? what version? |
| 05:36:13 | captain_proton | are there any others? |
| 05:36:15 | captain_proton | latest version |
| 05:36:28 | captain_proton | i may revert back to the previous ones if this becomes a problem |
| 05:38:28 | jacques | not any others that do 3d |
| 05:38:43 | jacques | i am running 2314 IIRC |
| 05:38:49 | jacques | not the absolute latest |
| 05:38:58 | captain_proton | yeah - thats what i had before |
| 05:39:03 | captain_proton | latest is 28somethingorother |
| 05:39:59 | jacques | hmm i get the everyone non-responding bug about 50% of the time on digitaleclipse |
| 06:12:00 | captain_proton | hi MrApathyCream |
| 06:23:20 | MrApathyCream | hey |
| 06:34:14 | BZFlag | really could use some bots... =( |
| 06:34:51 | captain_proton | well |
| 06:35:02 | captain_proton | there WERE bots before you went and ripped out all the code |
| 06:35:10 | MrApathyCream | heh |
| 06:35:34 | MrApathyCream | would be nice to be able to test on local server too... :) |
| 06:35:46 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: i can |
| 06:37:18 | MrApathyCream | hey, looky there, i can too.... cool |
| 06:42:44 | BZFlag | local lan discovery needs to be recoded. I ripped that out too. ;-) |
| 06:43:00 | BZFlag | the new stuff should go on the default udp port, not another handle. |
| 06:56:00 | MrApathyCream | used my noggin, and just typed in 127.0.0.1 :) |
| 06:56:12 | captain_proton | ooh |
| 06:56:13 | captain_proton | l33t |
| 07:22:46 | iLLf8d | hey uhm |
| 07:22:48 | iLLf8d | jacques I can connect to decks |
| 07:22:50 | iLLf8d | I got nvidia drivers too |
| 07:22:54 | iLLf8d | not the latest tho |
| 08:46:50 | BZFlag | adds autopilot, which doesn't yet. |
| 08:47:03 | BZFlag | though it can be used for testing. |
| 08:47:16 | captain_proton | autopilot? |
| 08:50:25 | BZFlag | will be bot code for the time being. |
| 08:50:41 | captain_proton | ha |
| 08:50:59 | BZFlag | so "autopilot" on the console, and the bot code (none yet) takes over. |
| 08:51:04 | BZFlag | mouse is freed, etc. |
| 08:51:12 | captain_proton | nifty |
| 08:51:14 | BZFlag | you live even when minimized. |
| 08:51:29 | BZFlag | yeah, I'm using it to get stats etc. |
| 08:51:38 | captain_proton | any progress on netcode? |
| 08:58:41 | BZFlag | not in cvs yet, just testing stats. |
| 08:58:49 | BZFlag | I think I have a plan. ;-) |
| 08:59:13 | captain_proton | oh? |
| 08:59:30 | BZFlag | I need some test tools now, so that's why I'm hacking in the autopilot bot code. |
| 08:59:39 | captain_proton | ahh |
| 08:59:44 | captain_proton | whats your plan? |
| 08:59:55 | BZFlag | well... it's long. |
| 09:00:25 | BZFlag | I'm going to leave the tcp code in till I have the packet merging etc working. |
| 09:00:59 | BZFlag | will be adding throttling first, once the bot works so slow down the bots we minimized. |
| 09:01:38 | BZFlag | they should not be contstrained by GL frames so I expect the autopilot bot to really spam the server when minimized. |
| 09:01:50 | BZFlag | which for testing will be a good thing. |
| 09:09:33 | BZFlag | cool, png code creeping in. ;-) |
| 09:09:41 | captain_proton | i noticed that |
| 09:09:43 | captain_proton | will be nice |
| 09:11:24 | BZFlag | with the bots, I'm going to get newgame with out disconnects working. |
| 09:11:37 | BZFlag | I plan to do map changes on newgame too. |
| 09:11:41 | captain_proton | wheeeee |
| 09:12:16 | BZFlag | I'll start with just new random worlds, then add support for multiple world files. |
| 09:12:39 | BZFlag | should be fun. ;-) |
| 09:15:29 | BZFlag | nite |
| 15:15:05 | scanline | is away: food or something |
| 15:15:24 | vogon_jeltz | wow, captain_pistachio hasn't bothered me about SDL in a while |
| 15:48:40 | captain_proton | gah |
| 15:48:45 | captain_proton | has been busy |
| 15:48:59 | captain_proton | btw |
| 15:49:02 | captain_proton | how has SDL been going? |
| 15:49:30 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 17:02:00 | captain_proton | blah blah blah |
| 17:18:27 | captain_proton | looks like a nice solaris commit |
| 17:21:33 | vogon_jeltz | is away: bath |
| 17:42:24 | vogon_jeltz | is back (gone 00:20:51) |
| 18:34:31 | jacques | captain_proton: heh i was just talking to some ppl on your server |
| 18:34:45 | jacques | they were lagging, and one guy said he was in france |
| 18:34:55 | captain_proton | "we're from france" |
| 18:35:09 | jacques | i said that explains it and he said "but this is the only cool server out there" |
| 18:35:12 | jacques | :-) |
| 18:35:24 | vogon_jeltz | is away: sl33p |
| 18:35:41 | jacques | oops he's gone |
| 19:02:33 | jacques | why do servers allow laggers? |
| 19:02:41 | jacques | ppl with 700 100 1500 lag? |
| 19:02:46 | jacques | that's just not fun |
| 19:34:21 | Chestal | jacques: jsut wait for 1.8, there's no really good way to block laggers now |
| 19:35:16 | jacques | Chestal: yes I have high hopes for 1.8 :-) |
| 19:35:32 | Chestal | I just played a little on my CTF server, was fun |
| 19:35:38 | Chestal | although teams were a little unbalanced |
| 19:35:46 | jacques | heh |
| 19:35:56 | jacques | unbalanced CTF can be brutal |
| 19:36:13 | jacques | i was constandly getting spawned in the middle of the field |
| 19:36:23 | jacques | into multiple streams of shots |
| 19:36:26 | Chestal | well, it was 4:4 most of the time, but I was in a Team with BadAss and the other team had only ok players |
| 19:36:38 | Chestal | yes, respwaning with CTF is a problem |
| 19:37:01 | Chestal | when both flags are near the center of the map, all hell breaks loose :-) |
| 19:37:19 | captain_proton | BadAss? |
| 19:37:25 | Chestal | U=Dead |
| 19:37:29 | captain_proton | ahh |
| 19:37:30 | jacques | heh |
| 19:37:35 | captain_proton | yes, he was good |
| 19:38:05 | captain_proton | its amazing how noticable 150ms lag is on your server Chestal |
| 19:38:31 | Chestal | sometimes the stats lie |
| 19:38:46 | Chestal | e.g. Serious Sam had a very bad connection |
| 19:38:53 | Chestal | but low lagstats |
| 19:39:29 | Chestal | hmm, protocol.h changed, better update my server |
| 19:40:01 | Chestal | is heading home |
| 19:40:41 | captain_proton | Chestal: i don't think it changed protocol - just a solaris update iirc |
| 20:09:03 | scanline | is back (gone 04:53:58) |
| 20:10:21 | captain_proton | advanced programming in the unix environment is a awesome book =) |
| 20:11:43 | scanline | is away: trying once again to go postal |
| 20:44:28 | BZFlag | Chestal: two: auto rebuilds on cvs changes. |
| 22:54:57 | Chestal | re |
| 22:57:23 | scanline | is back (gone 02:45:40) |
| 22:57:28 | captain_proton | wb |
| 22:57:43 | captain_proton | enjoy all that our modern postal system has to offer? |
| 23:42:53 | iLLf8d | lo jacques |
| 23:42:53 | jacques | hi iLLf8d :-) |
| 23:42:55 | iLLf8d | how goes it |
| 23:43:05 | jacques | not bad - i just got to work - was playing earlier |
| 23:43:12 | iLLf8d | ah |
| 23:43:21 | iLLf8d | where are you? what part of the world? |
| 23:43:31 | jacques | in california |
| 23:43:38 | jacques | it's 3:45pm here |
| 23:43:41 | iLLf8d | just got to work at 3:44? |
| 23:43:42 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 23:43:46 | iLLf8d | where in cali? |
| 23:43:52 | iLLf8d | I think I asked you this before |
| 23:43:55 | iLLf8d | is in cali too |
| 23:44:07 | iLLf8d | you said up by sanfran right? |
| 23:44:48 | jacques | I am in sunnyvale |
| 23:44:54 | jacques | bay area |
| 23:44:54 | iLLf8d | oh yeah hmm |
| 23:45:04 | jacques | south bay - whatever they call it :-) |
| 23:45:10 | iLLf8d | I recall the sunnydale/sunnyvale heh |
| 23:45:11 | iLLf8d | =P |
| 23:45:17 | jacques | oh yeah tha tws you |
| 23:45:23 | jacques | buffy lives down the street |
| 23:45:26 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 23:45:34 | jacques | saw her at te bronze a couple nights ago |
| 23:45:43 | iLLf8d | nice heh |
| 23:46:02 | jacques | my new callsign is do-over |
| 23:46:13 | iLLf8d | whys that? |
| 23:46:14 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 23:46:29 | jacques | dunno, because when I get killed I want a "do-over" |
| 23:46:32 | iLLf8d | shitting bullets is a good callsign |
| 23:46:42 | jacques | heh |
| 23:46:53 | jacques | I hate the ppl that put teammate in their cal;lsign |
| 23:46:56 | iLLf8d | how about "ok I wasn't ready" |
| 23:46:57 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 23:47:03 | jacques | that's good too |
| 23:47:17 | jacques | how about time out |
| 23:47:22 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 23:47:40 | iLLf8d | most of the time lately I'm just goofin off when I play |
| 23:48:05 | jacques | i have been about 25% of the time lately |
| 23:48:16 | jacques | it's too intense to be 100% all the time |
| 23:48:18 | iLLf8d | yeah goofin off is more fun |
| 23:48:30 | jacques | i get too upset with laggers and stuff |
| 23:48:32 | iLLf8d | I gotta learn to pause when i'm talking I lose more points that way |
| 23:48:37 | jacques | heh! |
| 23:48:41 | iLLf8d | some of my discussions are costing me 10+ points |
| 23:48:53 | jacques | dont hit right button to start |
| 23:48:54 | iLLf8d | yeah I get tried of the cheats |
| 23:49:04 | jacques | i just sit at the "dead" screen and talk |
| 23:49:25 | iLLf8d | I was on chard yesterday fairing quite well but you could tell alot of guys there are outta control cheatwise now |
| 23:49:50 | iLLf8d | cheating forced me outta other online games in the past too |
| 23:49:56 | jacques | damn, what did you see? |
| 23:49:57 | iLLf8d | I used to love to play Mech Warrior |
| 23:50:15 | jacques | i dont go to chard anymore |
| 23:50:26 | iLLf8d | after a while you can tell when you unload everything and hit someone they don't incur any damage |
| 23:50:30 | iLLf8d | really starts to piss you off |
| 23:50:31 | jacques | and digitaleclpse has... issues |
| 23:50:36 | iLLf8d | invincible Mechs suck |
| 23:50:48 | iLLf8d | yeah I play digital but its fucked up |
| 23:50:55 | jacques | yeah cheaters ruin lots of things |
| 23:50:55 | iLLf8d | alot of bad tank displacements |
| 23:51:01 | jacques | yep - warping |
| 23:51:08 | iLLf8d | he claims that he's got a ton of bandwidth too |
| 23:51:12 | iLLf8d | I don't believe it |
| 23:51:14 | jacques | digital has problems with > about 6 players |
| 23:51:36 | iLLf8d | he said something like sdsl 1000 up/down |
| 23:51:43 | iLLf8d | or 1.5/1.5 |
| 23:51:53 | jacques | well something about that server is screwed |
| 23:51:54 | iLLf8d | I think the person that told me that was full of it |
| 23:52:09 | jacques | either the OS or load ot bandwidth |
| 23:52:10 | iLLf8d | the other day I had to kick a lagger off of caps server |
| 23:52:14 | iLLf8d | 8500ms lag times heh |
| 23:52:15 | iLLf8d | =P |
| 23:52:18 | jacques | damn! |
| 23:52:21 | jacques | never seen that bad |
| 23:52:31 | jacques | see tons of > 1000 there these days tho |
| 23:52:45 | iLLf8d | yeah I've never seen an 8000+ before tho |
| 23:52:48 | jacques | today > half were > 700 |
| 23:52:52 | iLLf8d | most i've seen is in the high 3000's |
| 23:53:00 | jacques | lots of 1500 and 2000 |
| 23:53:21 | iLLf8d | he was at 3600 and I asked him to restart and please come back |
| 23:53:28 | iLLf8d | a few times and he was just spacing |
| 23:53:38 | jacques | hw does lagstats work - some guy was showing up as 680 to me but he said he showed as 69 to him |
| 23:53:43 | iLLf8d | when he came back it was 8500 heh |
| 23:53:57 | iLLf8d | I dunno |
| 23:54:00 | jacques | one guy told me he was downloading at same time |
| 23:54:06 | iLLf8d | I heard its not overly accurate |
| 23:54:09 | Chestal | jacques: lagstats is done by the server and should look the same to everyone |
| 23:54:10 | jacques | i said that makes you harder to hit and he said "I know" |
| 23:54:18 | jacques | Chestal: that's wht I thought |
| 23:54:19 | iLLf8d | downs usually not the issue tho |
| 23:54:35 | iLLf8d | I'd think most people have ample down bandwidth |
| 23:54:39 | Chestal | I've always been in favour of client-side hitz detection, but maybe server-side is better |
| 23:54:42 | iLLf8d | sheesh my down is 2000-3000 |
| 23:54:59 | jacques | on asymmetric link, it can be a problem - because of ACKs |
| 23:55:03 | Chestal | problem with server-side detection is that you can get killed when from your point of view the shot failed to hit you |
| 23:55:08 | iLLf8d | hmm dunno |
| 23:55:22 | jacques | Chestal: that will just encourage ppl to play on low lag servers to them - as it should be |
| 23:55:31 | Chestal | for bzfs you need upstream bandwidth, downstream is neglectible |
| 23:55:47 | iLLf8d | Chestal who cares tho if its more accurate |
| 23:56:03 | Chestal | iLLf8d: well, it's less accurate for checkign if _you_ die |
| 23:56:14 | jacques | we want to encourage low lag |
| 23:56:28 | iLLf8d | not sure I know what you mean by that |
| 23:56:33 | Chestal | I guess we will jsut have to try it |
| 23:56:37 | iLLf8d | the less accurate comment |
| 23:57:09 | Chestal | illf8d: well, currently the game is 100% in detecting whether your tank is hit by a shot - according to your point of view |
| 23:57:25 | iLLf8d | ok |
| 23:57:29 | Chestal | so there will be _no_ occurences of you dying when you evaded a shot |
| 23:57:41 | Chestal | but ltos of occurences of your shots passing through enemy tanks |
| 23:57:56 | jacques | and these are only problems when ppl are lagging |
| 23:58:14 | iLLf8d | what about setting up 2 connections? |
| 23:58:23 | Chestal | we will jsut have to try to see at what amount of lag the server-side detecton starts to feel wrong |
| 23:58:25 | jacques | if ppl were not lagging, you would have low occurrences of both types of error |
| 23:58:26 | iLLf8d | one to handle positioning and collision |
| 23:58:32 | iLLf8d | and the other to handle whatever else |
| 23:59:00 | Chestal | ill: actually, that's how it is working now when you play with UDP, but this doesn't buy you anyhting |
| 23:59:09 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 23:59:44 | Chestal | jacques: yes, it might work well, but I am being cautios and say let's try it in a real game before abaondign the old scheme altogether |
| 23:59:48 | iLLf8d | in the current setup how much of the issue is lag vs code/protocol design? |
| 23:59:56 | jacques | Chestal: wise |
