| 00:00:08 | Chestal | hmm, lame is sloooow |
| 00:00:28 | captain_proton | lame is the fastest encoder i know... |
| 00:00:41 | captain_proton | drools all over google's new logo |
| 00:00:41 | Chestal | still slow :-) |
| 00:00:48 | Chestal | I have 40 minutes of audio... |
| 00:01:19 | Chestal | oh, a Mondrian |
| 00:02:58 | Chestal | usually, I do not see the google logo as I am not visiting the homepage |
| 00:04:29 | captain_proton | wooo! |
| 00:04:56 | captain_proton | i have to fix the color and the field angle stuff |
| 00:04:59 | captain_proton | but its really close |
| 00:06:17 | MrApathyCream | how bout a tornado that destroys tanks |
| 00:06:53 | Chestal | I find some of the fonts hard to read with 1.8 |
| 00:06:58 | Chestal | e.g. the scoreboard |
| 00:07:06 | captain_proton | Chestal: fix them ;) |
| 00:07:09 | Chestal | I tried fiddling with font type and size, but it doesn't look too good |
| 00:08:10 | Chestal | so, as Crea is here, I'll ask once more: does anybody of you have the problem, that you cannot see the tank-cursor in the menus? |
| 00:08:22 | Chestal | I can only see it with GLX_INDIRECT |
| 00:08:28 | captain_proton | nope - then again, no mesa |
| 00:08:50 | MrApathyCream | some of the fonts? sheesh illegible |
| 00:09:00 | captain_proton | try switching font faces maybe? |
| 00:09:25 | MrApathyCream | wfm!! |
| 00:09:34 | captain_proton | wfm? |
| 00:09:37 | MrApathyCream | er, wtfm! |
| 00:09:49 | captain_proton | write tfm? |
| 00:09:57 | MrApathyCream | yes |
| 00:10:30 | captain_proton | eg <font name="helveticaBold" size="24p" /> |
| 00:10:41 | captain_proton | instead of <font name="fixed" ... |
| 00:11:00 | Chestal | I guess they look strange cause they get mangled by some GL smoothin goperation or something |
| 00:11:15 | MrApathyCream | frankly, i want the old screen back |
| 00:11:15 | Chestal | although, they're too dark I guess |
| 00:11:42 | MrApathyCream | send me the xml for that! |
| 00:11:43 | Chestal | ah, the new screen isn't that bad, it grows on you I guess |
| 00:11:45 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: old screen? |
| 00:11:50 | MrApathyCream | 1.7 |
| 00:11:53 | Chestal | and it coudl be configured to be very close to the old layout |
| 00:12:07 | captain_proton | you mean the one with the huge HUD obscuring 40% of your view? |
| 00:12:19 | Chestal | although the message area has no scrollback AFAIK |
| 00:12:20 | MrApathyCream | yes that very one!!, with the opaque radar! |
| 00:12:23 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: just hack around with view.xml |
| 00:12:33 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: opaque radar is easy |
| 00:12:34 | captain_proton | err |
| 00:12:36 | Chestal | Cream: opaque radar is very easy to do |
| 00:12:36 | captain_proton | view.bzc |
| 00:12:54 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: look at the file before telling me to wtfm - its really quite simple |
| 00:13:10 | MrApathyCream | yeh, yeh,... just wanted to say it for once |
| 00:13:15 | Chestal | well, it should be documented, but that's not top priority righ tnow |
| 00:13:34 | Chestal | we also need to make it work as quick as 1.7 with software rendering |
| 00:13:37 | Chestal | but that can be done later |
| 00:14:03 | Chestal | should be fairly easy with some ugly hacks just liek in 1.7 |
| 00:14:11 | MrApathyCream | hmm seems as riker removed -pr |
| 00:14:20 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: there's no more reconnect |
| 00:14:48 | Chestal | I'd liek to discuss this integer stuff with TIm more, I guess I've done it before |
| 00:14:56 | Chestal | but I don#t remmeber :-) and I'm still skeptical |
| 00:15:34 | captain_proton | why skeptical? |
| 00:15:34 | Chestal | 17 of 42MB done, waah, that takes forever, I need to go to bed |
| 00:15:51 | Chestal | to begin with, I fail to see the advantages of using integers |
| 00:16:06 | captain_proton | some platforms don't have real floating point |
| 00:16:12 | MrApathyCream | what's this for movement, etc? |
| 00:16:13 | captain_proton | and their emulation of it is slow |
| 00:16:32 | Chestal | hmm, ok, but these are very exotic platforms |
| 00:16:36 | MrApathyCream | captain_proton: BZFlag runs on atari? |
| 00:16:50 | captain_proton | timmy wants to run it on his tuxscreen |
| 00:17:01 | MrApathyCream | HEH, in his router! :) |
| 00:17:22 | captain_proton | that too |
| 00:17:27 | Chestal | we still need to do some operations which are not integral math |
| 00:17:31 | Chestal | e.g. sin etc. |
| 00:17:33 | captain_proton | true |
| 00:17:46 | captain_proton | but the more you minimize it the faster it will run |
| 00:17:52 | MrApathyCream | sin-> tables |
| 00:17:52 | Chestal | also, Pythagoras |
| 00:18:06 | Chestal | which can be done integral, but the square numbes will get real big |
| 00:18:28 | Chestal | cream: tables and interpolaton can be done, but it will be way slower than usign floats I guess |
| 00:18:53 | MrApathyCream | just playing devil's guesser... wasn't my decision |
| 00:18:53 | Chestal | of course the normal clients coudl just convert the integers right back to floats |
| 00:18:57 | Chestal | and only integers in the protocol |
| 00:19:09 | captain_proton | Chestal: yea |
| 00:19:32 | Chestal | but then again, the Tuxscreen could do flaot<-> int conversion anyway |
| 00:19:52 | Chestal | oh wel, maybe it will work, but it just feels wrong |
| 00:20:50 | Chestal | time woudl also need to be made discrete |
| 00:21:26 | Chestal | how is GL working on thise paltforms anyway? withotu floats? |
| 00:21:38 | captain_proton | Chestal: just think that we're doing everything in mm |
| 00:22:05 | captain_proton | i don't know - i broke my tuxscreen and haven't bothered to fix it up =} |
| 00:23:13 | Chestal | I see a lot of conversiob factors needed on every calculation |
| 00:23:24 | Chestal | coordinates in mm, times in ms, but speed would proabaly be ms/s |
| 00:23:32 | Chestal | eh, mm/s |
| 00:23:37 | Chestal | and not mm/ms |
| 00:24:22 | captain_proton | here's "the man" himself |
| 00:24:25 | captain_proton | bother him about it ;) |
| 00:24:36 | Chestal | ah, hi Tim |
| 00:24:53 | Chestal | BZFlag: I'm still skeptical and confused about the conversion of floats to integeers |
| 00:25:28 | Chestal | BZFlag: i sit ints onyl for the protocol or internally also? |
| 00:26:08 | MrApathyCream | what would the point of only protocol be? |
| 00:26:56 | MrApathyCream | Hmm: getting: |
| 00:26:58 | MrApathyCream | recvMulticast: The datagram was too large to fit into the specified buffer and was truncated (10040) |
| 00:28:35 | Chestal | Cream: well, the current version relies on all platforms usin gthe same flaotign point represantation |
| 00:28:54 | Chestal | in fact I am quite surprised that they're all using IEEE |
| 00:28:59 | MrApathyCream | ok, sure, |
| 00:29:05 | Chestal | Cream: huh? when, where? |
| 00:29:14 | MrApathyCream | in 1.8 server |
| 00:29:23 | MrApathyCream | latest cvs |
| 00:29:27 | captain_proton | Chestal: the IEEE standard has been around forever |
| 00:29:36 | BZFlag | Chestal: no change yet. protocol is likely to be ints for 1.8, perhaps more later if we feel like it. |
| 00:29:45 | Chestal | captain_proton: yes, but AFAIK no standard enforces using IEEE on the compilers |
| 00:29:51 | captain_proton | Chestal: no |
| 00:30:03 | captain_proton | Chestal: but its the processor that implements the standard, not the compiler |
| 00:30:25 | Chestal | captain_proton: that might be so in practise becuase of speed issues |
| 00:30:46 | BZFlag | well, the compiler _could_ do IEEE even if the cpu id not via emulation libraries but that would be slow. |
| 00:30:50 | captain_proton | Chestal: if you have floating point support in the processor it -has- to implement the standard |
| 00:31:14 | BZFlag | the StrongARM has no float at all and hence no IEEE float. ;-) |
| 00:31:19 | captain_proton | or at least some standard |
| 00:31:32 | Chestal | defien your own standard :-) |
| 00:31:36 | MrApathyCream | hmm, question: it would seem that a remote player is added for the local player, does that sound right? |
| 00:31:41 | BZFlag | that's the beauty of standards, there are so many to choose from. |
| 00:31:49 | captain_proton | Chestal: people won't buy your processor if its not compatible with anything |
| 00:32:16 | Chestal | captain_proton: well, changing the flaotign point format shoudln't make so big a differne for most applicatins |
| 00:32:20 | BZFlag | MrApathyCream: yes. and we should probably rename it to players[]. ;-) |
| 00:32:28 | Chestal | you can't rely on the exact semantics anyway |
| 00:33:51 | MrApathyCream | -2 == me, someone should be shot :) |
| 00:34:16 | BZFlag | heh. what's -1 ? |
| 00:34:31 | BZFlag | probably an error. |
| 00:35:42 | MrApathyCream | -1 is no tank |
| 00:36:11 | Chestal | btw., if I understand it correctly, the initial world description sent by the server consists of many messages. And these are sent one at a time, waiting for a new request by the client each time. I guess this is what makes it so slow? |
| 00:37:43 | captain_proton | Chestal: yep |
| 00:38:12 | captain_proton | argh! i keep getting colors in my particles |
| 00:38:27 | Chestal | well, couldn't that be changed to send it all in one batch? |
| 00:38:44 | Chestal | of course it might be a lesser issue once we have cachng |
| 00:39:47 | captain_proton | Chestal: that will be changed |
| 00:40:11 | captain_proton | we'll have a slightly different system of request-get but those will send larger packages at a time |
| 00:40:18 | MrApathyCream | wonder if you could download world from seperate http server since md5 is here |
| 00:43:23 | scanline | just tried the CVS version of bzflag. Lots of improvements!! |
| 00:47:16 | scanline | is away: i can't believe it's not arsenic! (dorm food?) |
| 00:48:04 | MrApathyCream | anyone with 1.8 single byte playerid client mind joining me at rikers? |
| 00:49:31 | Chestal | I'm coming |
| 00:53:53 | MrApathyCream | be there in a sec |
| 00:57:00 | BZFlag | Chestal: no. all the world msgs are sent by the server without any handshaking. |
| 00:57:05 | MrApathyCream | hmmm, somethings munged... ok thanks i'll try later after i |
| 00:57:18 | BZFlag | they are done when the server sends a msgadd for that player. |
| 00:57:33 | BZFlag | MrApathyCream: on my way in a sec... |
| 00:59:30 | BZFlag | oops... I'm running the resized code. guess I won't join you. ;-) |
| 00:59:53 | MrApathyCream | hmm, seems like win32 build builds release and debug into same directory |
| 01:02:13 | MrApathyCream | fixing... |
| 01:03:08 | Chestal | ah, finally my convrsion has finished |
| 01:03:42 | captain_proton | removes a ! and hopes it works |
| 01:04:13 | captain_proton | wheeeee |
| 01:13:32 | BZFlag | ok, a lot is broken, but I'm going to commit it anyway. |
| 01:13:45 | captain_proton | BZFlag: what about your rule? |
| 01:13:52 | captain_proton | don't checkin anything that breaks the tree |
| 01:13:54 | BZFlag | heh, it compiles and runs. ;-) |
| 01:14:15 | BZFlag | where does the depth clipping happen? that's the main one I need to find. |
| 01:14:25 | BZFlag | ie: the disappearing mountians. |
| 01:14:44 | captain_proton | WOOHOO |
| 01:14:48 | BZFlag | they seem to be absolute coordinates, not based on world or object size. |
| 01:15:06 | captain_proton | uhm |
| 01:15:09 | captain_proton | hang a sec |
| 01:15:15 | MrApathyCream | brb |
| 01:16:05 | captain_proton | nevermind i have to go eat |
| 01:16:22 | captain_proton | glDepthSomethingOrOther perhaps? |
| 01:19:46 | Chestal | I guess I should go to bed. cu in 8 hours |
| 01:20:30 | MrApathyCream | Think we should add a --buildid-- to the MsgEnter protocol temporarily as it would seem we will be incompatible often |
| 01:20:41 | MrApathyCream | Chestal: will be here when you wake |
| 01:20:54 | MrApathyCream | Chestal: tomorrow make enough croisants for all of us! :) |
| 01:22:09 | Chestal | how many would you like? :-) |
| 01:46:12 | scanline | captain_proton: have you done much in CU's linux users' group? |
| 01:46:51 | scanline | is back (gone 00:59:35) |
| 01:52:25 | BZFlag | argh... where's crs? ;-) |
| 01:52:51 | | crs23 was last seen on #bzflag 1 days, 5 hours, 1 minutes and 27 seconds ago, saying: did you look at SceneReader::open()? adding a new node takes all of 30 seconds. [Wed Mar 6 20:51:24 2002] |
| 01:52:51 | vogon_jeltz | ibot, seen crs23 |
| 01:57:17 | scanline | is away: lab |
| 02:12:35 | MrApathyCream | Hmm, question, do we need a hardcoded id for ME (other than playerid) to replace -2? |
| 02:12:57 | MrApathyCream | Or perhaps, we just keep an int that trackes myID. |
| 02:13:09 | MrApathyCream | can't return -2 anymore |
| 02:13:33 | MrApathyCream | and if we _JUST_ use playerid, we will be returning the remote me, not the localplayer me. |
| 02:14:11 | MrApathyCream | or perhaps localplayer can extend remoteplayer? sounds odd |
| 02:15:23 | MrApathyCream | s/extend/inherit from/ |
| 02:15:28 | MrApathyCream | heh to much java |
| 02:16:56 | MrApathyCream | BZFlag: I'd like to add NoOne = 254 to protocol, ok? |
| 02:21:15 | BZFlag | MrApathyCream: perhaps. I'm not sure on the final numbering yet. |
| 02:21:44 | BZFlag | MrApathyCream: NoPlayer might be better? |
| 02:21:59 | BZFlag | allready have a NoTeam. |
| 02:25:09 | MrApathyCream | maybe InvalidPlayer |
| 02:27:03 | BZFlag | no, NoPlayer should be fine. |
| 02:27:10 | MrApathyCream | ok |
| 02:27:39 | BZFlag | argh... wish I could find the far clipping code. |
| 02:28:17 | MrApathyCream | he, lookupPlayer, lookupPlayerIndex, are trivial now.. |
| 02:28:36 | BZFlag | as well they should be. ;-) |
| 02:31:08 | MrApathyCream | only thing tricky is special case for self to choose LocalPlayer vs. RemotePlayer |
| 02:35:02 | MrApathyCream | BZlag: what'ya think about temporarily adding a bulidid to the MsgEnter protocol to force latests clients |
| 02:35:26 | MrApathyCream | Seems like losts of incompatibilities will happen over the next n weeks |
| 02:35:32 | MrApathyCream | s/losts/lots/ |
| 02:36:36 | BZFlag | yeah, but then when do you change buildid? ;-) |
| 02:36:55 | BZFlag | I'm not too worried about it. build a local server and client and all should be well. |
| 02:37:23 | MrApathyCream | every checkin, i guess. some tests need multi clients, unfortunately |
| 02:37:52 | MrApathyCream | this clients seems to have a much higher mem footprint |
| 02:37:59 | MrApathyCream | could be my imagination though |
| 02:39:03 | BZFlag | ug, well. saving my patch and reverting. |
| 02:40:09 | BZFlag | I'm thinking server should go high too. |
| 02:40:24 | BZFlag | all over 240 or so. |
| 02:40:51 | BZFlag | server, noplayer, teams, everyone, perhaps an observer team? etc. |
| 02:41:08 | BZFlag | so 0-maxplayers is exactly the index. |
| 02:46:48 | MrApathyCream | good to me |
| 02:47:23 | MrApathyCream | steps out for a bit |
| 03:10:22 | jacques | there's no -windown option in 1.8 ?? :-( |
| 03:11:02 | jacques | oh never mind geometry implies window |
| 03:11:05 | jacques | in 1.8 |
| 03:12:41 | BZFlag | later |
| 03:40:23 | jacques | wow scanline's server is brutal |
| 03:40:35 | jacques | one shot, no jumping, and you keep bad flags til you die |
| 03:41:27 | jacques | but it's not lagging today which is cool |
| 04:11:31 | ppl | he |
| 04:11:42 | ppl | it's fun, i like it! :) |
| 04:20:50 | ppl | hi BZFlag |
| 05:02:11 | captain_proton | returns |
| 05:03:45 | jacques | wb captain_proton |
| 05:03:55 | captain_proton | tanks |
| 05:06:32 | jacques | seen any particules lately? |
| 05:07:25 | captain_proton | lots =) |
| 05:08:10 | jacques | excellent :-) |
| 05:12:24 | MrApathyCream | cannot find texture: mountain5 |
| 05:12:42 | MrApathyCream | cannot find texture: mountain6 |
| 05:12:45 | MrApathyCream | --> getting these errors on startup |
| 05:15:42 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: are they in your data dir? |
| 05:16:10 | MrApathyCream | yup |
| 05:16:33 | MrApathyCream | i get no mountains just a sky |
| 05:16:47 | jacques | d'oh |
| 05:18:02 | MrApathyCream | where's textures read in now? |
| 05:18:16 | MrApathyCream | code so friggen generic you can't find anything |
| 05:18:35 | jacques | I get mountains |
| 05:19:06 | scanline | is back (gone 03:21:48) |
| 05:19:08 | captain_proton | rofl MrApathyCream |
| 05:19:25 | captain_proton | hey scanline |
| 05:19:37 | scanline | jacques: i can fix the server... first time bzflag server, so i don't know most of the options |
| 05:19:40 | scanline | hi captain_proton |
| 05:20:52 | jacques | scanline: lots of ppl seem to like your server the way it is :-) |
| 05:21:08 | scanline | ah.. i should poke my head in and see how many people are there |
| 05:21:18 | jacques | tho the bad flags til you die thing is kinda mean |
| 05:21:30 | scanline | so i'll read the manpage and fix it :) |
| 05:21:35 | jacques | usually I see 5,10,15 seconds or 2 kills |
| 05:21:57 | jacques | scanline: your server is really smooth today - what did you change? |
| 05:22:04 | scanline | jacques: nothing |
| 05:22:08 | jacques | :-\ |
| 05:23:52 | jacques | there were lots of ppl on an hour or so ago |
| 05:27:16 | scanline | ok, i think the server's better now |
| 05:27:18 | scanline | tests |
| 05:28:06 | captain_proton | tries to figure out why the angles aren't working |
| 05:28:42 | MrApathyCream | AH: the xml file specifies mountain6 not mountain6.rgb |
| 05:30:05 | captain_proton | yay! i got angles |
| 05:30:35 | captain_proton | grrr where is crs |
| 05:34:27 | | version 1.8 is nothing but a jarring mound of measled bat toenails. |
| 05:34:27 | MrApathyCream | ibot, insult version 1.8 |
| 05:34:56 | MrApathyCream | i give up, i'm off to play 1.7 |
| 05:35:40 | | crs was last seen on #bzflag 6 days, 3 hours, 25 minutes and 30 seconds ago, saying: what's wrong with it captain_proton? [Sat Mar 2 02:10:10 2002] |
| 05:35:40 | jacques | ibot: seen crs |
| 05:36:03 | jacques | scanline: where are you? |
| 05:38:17 | scanline | jacques: i'm here |
| 05:38:58 | jacques | scanline: are you on a server somewhere? |
| 05:39:39 | jacques | heh we are same team |
| 05:40:15 | captain_proton | would come play with you guys but he doesn't want to embarrass anyone ;-) |
| 05:41:03 | scanline | i'm used to being embarassed when it comes to games |
| 05:41:12 | captain_proton | heh |
| 05:41:22 | captain_proton | thing is - i'm only good at bzflag =] |
| 05:43:19 | jacques | this player just joined, paused, and grabbed GM while paused |
| 05:43:28 | captain_proton | really? |
| 05:43:30 | captain_proton | what server? |
| 05:43:35 | jacques | picogui |
| 05:43:49 | captain_proton | whom? |
| 05:43:56 | jacques | he just signed off - unixSA |
| 05:44:31 | scanline | GM? |
| 05:51:17 | jacques | anyone know denali? |
| 05:51:30 | jacques | he's another one who gets exactly the flag he needs exactly ehrn he needs it |
| 05:51:43 | jacques | I got SW and he immedialtly got high speed |
| 05:51:50 | jacques | i got laser and he immediately got cloaking |
| 05:51:58 | jacques | what's up with that? |
| 05:52:14 | jacques | sucks |
| 05:54:13 | jacques | that right after the paused player grabbing GM |
| 05:55:40 | jacques | scanline: GM is guided missile - one of the most feared weapons in bzflag |
| 05:55:49 | jacques | if not *the* most |
| 05:56:47 | jacques | well I gotta go to the hosting facility |
| 05:57:00 | jacques | BIAW |
| 06:05:49 | ppl | there |
| 06:06:02 | ppl | my jumping problem was related to my very low FPS |
| 06:42:04 | jacques | is back. |
| 06:42:16 | jacques | ppl: jumping problem? |
| 06:42:51 | ppl | on decks, i was unable to jump |
| 06:42:59 | ppl | to jump on the decks.. |
| 06:43:40 | jacques | aah |
| 06:43:49 | jacques | i dont like that map :-) |
| 06:44:43 | ppl | i suck at it |
| 06:44:52 | ppl | well.. 10shots.. |
| 06:44:58 | ppl | im used to map with 1-2 shots |
| 06:45:07 | ppl | and no jumping :) |
| 06:45:33 | jacques | heh |
| 06:45:38 | jacques | i am used to madcity |
| 06:45:54 | jacques | 10 shots, jumping, 5 second bad flags |
| 06:48:58 | jacques | i am unable to function with less than 3 shots |
| 06:50:41 | ppl | ;) |
| 07:10:44 | captain_proton | slaps Chestal - wake up! |
| 07:24:14 | iLLf8d | LOL |
| 07:24:25 | iLLf8d | I'm still in there killin people and talking to you and you're gone heh |
| 07:24:27 | iLLf8d | bitch |
| 07:24:27 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 07:26:12 | captain_proton | k |
| 07:26:16 | captain_proton | i just put up 'degree' |
| 07:26:23 | iLLf8d | oo |
| 07:26:25 | iLLf8d | whats that? |
| 07:26:26 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 07:26:31 | captain_proton | come and find out |
| 07:26:33 | captain_proton | its kinda cool |
| 07:30:24 | vogon_jeltz | watches "The Flying Car" again |
| 07:31:15 | jacques | come where? |
| 07:31:19 | jacques | i wanna see |
| 07:31:24 | jacques | where are you guys playing? |
| 07:40:15 | vogon_jeltz | is away: You'd do it with a bunch of guys just for a car? I thought I knew you, man... |
| 07:53:04 | captain_proton | creates a particle system action |
| 07:59:22 | captain_proton | soon you can choose burst or continuous |
| 08:04:43 | captain_proton | burst for things like explosions |
| 08:04:49 | captain_proton | continuous for things like rain |
| 08:05:24 | captain_proton | w00! |
| 08:09:00 | iLLf8d | cap |
| 08:09:04 | iLLf8d | can you sendme that map? |
| 08:09:09 | iLLf8d | I like it ALOT |
| 08:09:10 | jacques | that was cooool |
| 08:09:22 | jacques | can you imagine 10 shots on that map? |
| 08:09:29 | jacques | might not be playable heh |
| 08:09:33 | iLLf8d | thanks |
| 08:09:38 | iLLf8d | what that map? |
| 08:09:41 | iLLf8d | its a good map |
| 08:09:51 | jacques | captain_proton: congrats |
| 08:10:04 | captain_proton | jacques: ? |
| 08:10:10 | iLLf8d | your giant head award |
| 08:10:20 | jacques | captain_proton: congrats on your particle progress |
| 08:10:21 | iLLf8d | sorry I saw an opening |
| 08:10:24 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 08:10:25 | iLLf8d | jk |
| 08:10:26 | iLLf8d | =P |
| 08:10:37 | iLLf8d | particle progess? |
| 08:12:58 | captain_proton | yes =) |
| 08:13:15 | captain_proton | soon all i'll have left is to get texturing & billboarding functioning right |
| 08:14:04 | iLLf8d | start on the map editor heh =P |
| 08:14:07 | iLLf8d | jk |
| 08:14:09 | iLLf8d | kinda |
| 08:14:10 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 08:14:38 | iLLf8d | would be nice to have the editor and make the worlds for when you finish heh (tho I know thats impossible) |
| 08:14:39 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 08:15:10 | jacques | did someone say there was a random world generator? |
| 08:15:31 | captain_proton | hahaha iLLf8d |
| 08:15:43 | captain_proton | we haven't even defined most of the map format yet =) |
| 08:16:15 | iLLf8d | one question uhm |
| 08:16:29 | iLLf8d | I'd have thought you'd have had to start with that first |
| 08:16:35 | captain_proton | we'll get to it |
| 08:16:45 | captain_proton | but we have a bigger concern right now (netcode) |
| 08:16:54 | iLLf8d | I mean |
| 08:16:59 | captain_proton | there's a lot thats going in here =) |
| 08:17:21 | iLLf8d | don't you have to be on the same page as far as what to code flexibly enough (ie to accomodate) whatever your plans are? |
| 08:17:50 | iLLf8d | uhm the netcode? |
| 08:18:03 | captain_proton | yeah... |
| 08:18:07 | iLLf8d | what are they changing? |
| 08:18:07 | captain_proton | it'll all get code |
| 08:18:09 | captain_proton | done* |
| 08:18:13 | captain_proton | everything |
| 08:18:29 | iLLf8d | i'm actually somewhat netcode savy |
| 08:18:37 | iLLf8d | ie client server and sockets |
| 08:18:40 | iLLf8d | uhm |
| 08:18:42 | jacques | udp only |
| 08:18:59 | jacques | custom reliable xfer algo |
| 08:19:04 | iLLf8d | the udp socket setup shouldn't be too tough i'd think |
| 08:19:16 | jacques | at least that's what I heard |
| 08:19:22 | iLLf8d | the stevens books almost have cut and paste code examples |
| 08:19:33 | iLLf8d | and they have all the statistics there on speed per type |
| 08:19:39 | iLLf8d | and cpu util etc... |
| 08:19:57 | jacques | what about reliable xfer with udp? |
| 08:20:10 | iLLf8d | I dunno how their handling it |
| 08:20:20 | captain_proton | thats what we're planning right now |
| 08:20:24 | captain_proton | no TCP at all |
| 08:20:25 | jacques | sequence numbers for one I guess |
| 08:20:35 | iLLf8d | sure and drop if enough packets are lost |
| 08:20:51 | jacques | yeah udp can actually arrive out of order |
| 08:21:11 | captain_proton | yes |
| 08:21:13 | iLLf8d | would be nice if its flexible enough to troubleshoot your own connection |
| 08:21:21 | iLLf8d | ie maybe give stats on packets lost or etc... |
| 08:21:30 | captain_proton | we can drop any out-of-order gameplay packets |
| 08:21:30 | jacques | true |
| 08:21:52 | captain_proton | packet combination is going to be a major speedup |
| 08:22:01 | iLLf8d | combination meaning? |
| 08:22:10 | captain_proton | right now it sends out a separate packet for each message |
| 08:22:12 | iLLf8d | why drop tcpip altogether |
| 08:22:21 | jacques | combining messages in a single udp packet |
| 08:22:27 | iLLf8d | oh |
| 08:22:29 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 08:22:37 | iLLf8d | you're gonna combine before you sendem out? |
| 08:22:38 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 08:22:48 | captain_proton | yes |
| 08:22:51 | scanline | is away: ZzZzZzzzzz |
| 08:22:59 | captain_proton | in a lot of cases the packet headers are bigger than the payload |
| 08:23:07 | iLLf8d | lol |
| 08:23:18 | jacques | also I believe now a client sends more packets if it has a higher framerate? |
| 08:23:31 | jacques | someone mentioned message throttling |
| 08:23:33 | captain_proton | yes |
| 08:23:50 | iLLf8d | yeah apathy or chestal was working on it |
| 08:23:53 | iLLf8d | I forget whom |
| 08:24:12 | jacques | that's good |
| 08:24:17 | iLLf8d | they should keep tcp/ip too |
| 08:24:20 | iLLf8d | for messaging |
| 08:24:22 | jacques | no reason that should be tied to framerate |
| 08:24:36 | iLLf8d | would be nice to have an online bzflag style irc as part of the listserv |
| 08:24:42 | iLLf8d | something linked to the client |
| 08:24:45 | captain_proton | iLLf8d: that complicates it - having multiple sockets is yuk |
| 08:25:03 | jacques | make a gateway in the server |
| 08:25:04 | vogon_jeltz | is back (gone 00:44:49) |
| 08:25:08 | captain_proton | hi vogon_jeltz |
| 08:25:12 | iLLf8d | uhm huh? |
| 08:25:13 | vogon_jeltz | yo |
| 08:25:25 | jacques | client<-->server is all udp, but server can also talk tcp to irc |
| 08:25:44 | captain_proton | ugh |
| 08:25:47 | iLLf8d | select nonblocking multiplexing server |
| 08:25:49 | captain_proton | thats why this channel is here ;) |
| 08:25:51 | iLLf8d | right |
| 08:26:06 | captain_proton | iLLf8d: you still would have to keep twice as many sockets laying around |
| 08:26:20 | captain_proton | meaning more sockets to poll/select, meaning less efficiency in the server |
| 08:26:30 | iLLf8d | not if you initiate the socket on a udp request to the server |
| 08:26:30 | jacques | I think currently the servers are way too somple |
| 08:26:40 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 08:26:41 | captain_proton | iLLf8d: huh? |
| 08:26:48 | jacques | I prefer complexity in the server instead of client |
| 08:26:54 | captain_proton | iLLf8d: you can't have a single socket that does both TCP and UDP |
| 08:26:56 | iLLf8d | ie have a packet tell the server to open a tcp/ip when needed |
| 08:27:01 | captain_proton | unless you implement both protocols yourself |
| 08:27:06 | captain_proton | iLLf8d: goddamn |
| 08:27:12 | captain_proton | iLLf8d: you haven't done this much have you? ;) |
| 08:27:23 | iLLf8d | mostly one protocol at a time heh |
| 08:27:42 | iLLf8d | just tcp/ip |
| 08:27:45 | iLLf8d | no udp experience |
| 08:27:47 | captain_proton | had no idea iLLf8d was such a tcp lubbah' |
| 08:28:10 | iLLf8d | well didn't have much need for net connections |
| 08:28:23 | iLLf8d | most of what I figured out was for things like irc bots and whatnot |
| 08:28:23 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 08:28:49 | iLLf8d | nothing like bzflag scope or scale |
| 08:29:18 | captain_proton | iLLf8d: the thing about game netcode is it has to be as fast as possible |
| 08:29:27 | iLLf8d | sometimes I don't delineate between socket and fd |
| 08:29:31 | iLLf8d | so its my bad there tho |
| 08:29:36 | iLLf8d | I don't always use the right jargon |
| 08:29:41 | jacques | fast == udp |
| 08:29:41 | captain_proton | opening and closing sockets when you need them might be space efficient but its certainly not speed |
| 08:29:56 | jacques | tcp setup and tear-down is relatively slow |
| 08:30:15 | iLLf8d | yeah just fork what you need tho and assuming it doesn't handle gameplay who cares |
| 08:30:18 | jacques | only problem with udp is the u :-) |
| 08:30:29 | iLLf8d | ie for chat or shit like that |
| 08:30:35 | jacques | which is why the extra layer is needed |
| 08:31:02 | captain_proton | iLLf8d: right now bzflag uses multiple sockets. the netcode is both slow and confusing |
| 08:31:08 | captain_proton | this will simplify and speed up |
| 08:31:14 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 08:31:26 | iLLf8d | yeah the combining I could see definately |
| 08:32:15 | iLLf8d | i'm not doubting the direction you guys are taking it I have no practical experience here |
| 08:32:49 | iLLf8d | just me goofing around with some simple stuff and perusing a book or 2 I own |
| 08:48:12 | jacques | it's that quiet time of night now on irc |
| 09:04:12 | captain_proton | // keep track of whether or not we've created |
| 09:04:12 | captain_proton | // the particles when in burst mode |
| 09:04:12 | captain_proton | bool burstCreated; |
| 09:04:14 | captain_proton | smiles |
| 09:05:29 | jacques | time to head home |
| 09:19:31 | Chestal | good morning |
| 09:22:49 | captain_proton | Chestal: what happened to ctf on ducati? |
| 09:24:55 | Chestal | uh, I don't know, what happened? |
| 09:25:13 | Chestal | I'm still at home |
| 09:25:45 | captain_proton | its not up |
| 09:25:49 | Chestal | hmm |
| 09:26:01 | Chestal | oh, someone remanaged the userids, guess I'll have to relogin |
| 09:30:28 | captain_proton | argh |
| 09:30:38 | captain_proton | if i try to group two particle systems it parse errors on me |
| 09:36:12 | captain_proton | so test2.bzg fails for now |
| 09:36:17 | captain_proton | but test1.bzg is cool |
| 09:36:34 | captain_proton | =) |
| 09:41:09 | captain_proton | hang a sec |
| 09:41:12 | captain_proton | groups do work! |
| 09:44:34 | captain_proton | celebrates |
| 09:49:45 | captain_proton | nobody is alive to celebrate with me =( |
| 09:50:44 | captain_proton | nobody is alive to celebrate with me =( |
| 09:50:46 | captain_proton | ack |
| 09:58:03 | captain_proton | don't all shout about it at once |
| 10:01:13 | vogon_jeltz | YOU SUCK! |
| 10:01:22 | vogon_jeltz | ;) |
| 10:02:57 | captain_proton | vogon_jeltz: -I- have particles in bzflag - do you? |
| 10:02:59 | captain_proton | I THINK NOT! |
| 10:03:32 | vogon_jeltz | -I- have the SDL code - do you? ;) |
| 10:03:57 | captain_proton | hehehe |
| 10:04:02 | captain_proton | falls asleep |
| 10:04:07 | vogon_jeltz | nn, cappy |
| 10:26:26 | fontenot | whoo!!! |
| 10:26:31 | fontenot | oops too late |
| 10:26:52 | fontenot | SDL is cool too |
| 12:48:18 | tad | testing trillium |
| 12:49:15 | tad | hrm |
| 13:03:56 | Chestal | re |
| 13:04:26 | Chestal | hmm, Heist macht nicht den Eindruck, als muesste man den unbedingt sehen |
| 13:04:27 | Chestal | oops |
| 14:31:11 | fontenot | got damn I hate some of those motherfuckers |
| 14:31:36 | fontenot | missionfinish was getting his ass kicked to he changed to my team and started killing us |
| 14:32:43 | Chestal | which server? |
| 14:33:19 | fontenot | turkey |
| 14:33:36 | fontenot | only free-style with players when I started (that wasnt in hungary) |
| 14:33:45 | fontenot | why do people have to cheat? |
| 14:33:56 | Chestal | admins should propagate the password to some peopel they know,. so hopefully one of those ia round and can do something about people like that |
| 14:34:07 | fontenot | yeah |
| 14:34:21 | fontenot | that's team-killers two nights in a row |
| 14:34:30 | fontenot | now i know why so many ppl play rogues |
| 14:34:40 | Labhras | bi all |
| 14:34:42 | Labhras | hi |
| 14:34:45 | fontenot | hi Labhras |
| 14:36:22 | fontenot | i played rogue for a couple of nights before I decided teams were more fun |
| 14:36:41 | fontenot | im not good enough to be a rogue, fighting everyone else |
| 14:36:52 | Labhras | :-) |
| 14:36:57 | fontenot | though it does make things easy -> kill everyone :-) |
| 14:37:04 | Labhras | sure |
| 14:38:04 | fontenot | how are you Labhras? |
| 14:38:35 | fontenot | Chestal: what can an admin do? kick? ban by IP? |
| 14:42:18 | Chestal | fontenot: currently only kicking |
| 14:42:34 | Chestal | fontenot: I have a patch on my sevrers which allows temporary bans |
| 14:42:38 | Chestal | this will all change with 1.8 |
| 14:45:07 | fontenot | whoo! |
| 14:47:11 | fontenot | wow do you actually get points for killing teammates? |
| 14:47:14 | fontenot | that seems wrong |
| 14:48:16 | vogon_jeltz | no, you get negative points |
| 14:49:51 | fontenot | oh good - I was reading the mailing list and someone said that you got points for killing teammates |
| 14:50:35 | fontenot | but somehow I dont think the team-killers are in it for points anyway |
| 16:29:17 | captain_proton | goes "w00t" |
| 17:14:53 | captain_proton | you left and it got really laggy |
| 19:38:01 | captain_proton | helloooooo |
| 19:38:09 | captain_proton | channel is dead today |
| 19:45:13 | captain_proton | waaaaah i want to talk to crs |
| 19:48:17 | ppl | im alive |
| 20:16:59 | Chestal | re |
| 20:17:23 | Chestal | capt: yep, sorry for leaving so abruptly, but I had to. Nice playing with you in a team btw. |
| 20:18:28 | captain_proton | =) |
| 20:20:01 | Chestal | if I weren't as tired as I am I could post soem ideas about network statistics, the new network code and the authentication/karma system to the ml |
| 20:37:22 | captain_proton | hey timmy |
| 20:40:16 | Chestal | hmmph, I have t get rid of this annoying error: |
| 20:40:17 | Chestal | xterm: Cannot allocate color XtDefaultForeground |
| 20:40:25 | Chestal | whenever somethign bold is printed in my xterm +bdc |
| 20:50:46 | BZFlag | bb |
| 20:50:48 | BZFlag | brb |
| 20:51:46 | BZFlag | Chestal: 8 bit color? |
| 20:51:54 | Chestal | BZFlag: nope, 16bit or 24bit, doesn't matter |
| 20:52:26 | Chestal | it shoudl just display bold text in white isntead of the default grey |
| 20:53:37 | Chestal | I tried grep XtDefault /etc/X11/app-defaults/* but it's not there |
| 20:54:10 | BZFlag | xrdb -query | grep -i xterm.*bold show anything? |
| 20:54:34 | BZFlag | xrdb -query | grep -i term.*bold even better. |
| 20:55:24 | BZFlag | or colorBD ? |
| 20:55:26 | Chestal | xrdb -query produces emtpy output |
| 20:55:37 | BZFlag | which terminal? |
| 20:55:54 | BZFlag | uses aterm with pseudo-transparency |
| 20:56:02 | Chestal | xterm with TERM=xterm or screen |
| 20:56:21 | BZFlag | aterm is small, fast, and has shaded backgrounds. ;-) |
| 20:56:37 | Chestal | has grown used to his old trusty xterm |
| 20:56:49 | Chestal | it works at work |
| 20:57:51 | BZFlag | using +bdc? |
| 20:57:54 | captain_proton | BZFlag: do you know how to billboard something? |
| 20:58:06 | BZFlag | nope. other than reading the source. |
| 20:58:14 | captain_proton | bah |
| 20:58:20 | captain_proton | and of course crs is nowhere to be found |
| 20:58:26 | BZFlag | heh |
| 20:58:57 | Chestal | bzflag: yes, with xterm +bdc I get no errors and white text for bold at work, and errors at home on display of first bold letter |
| 20:59:20 | Chestal | most interestingly, I am using bold font for normal text, and at home for bold letters, I get bold bold text |
| 20:59:47 | Chestal | I think I remember having bold for plain text and for bold text at work, hmm does tha tmake sense? :-) |
| 21:01:38 | BZFlag | with -bdc the error goes away? |
| 21:04:17 | Chestal | yes |
| 21:04:28 | Chestal | hm, ltracign xterm does not work |
| 21:04:36 | Chestal | with strace I cannot see very much |
| 21:04:38 | BZFlag | try a .Xresources with something like "xterm*colorBD: white" in it. then xrdb -merge .Xresources and start a new window. |
| 21:04:45 | Chestal | only that is uses some Xcms calls |
| 21:05:05 | Chestal | it tries to open /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/Xcms.txt which cannot be found, but I do not have that fiel at work either |
| 21:17:57 | Chestal | hmm, I guess XParseColor fails |
| 21:18:06 | Chestal | is a return value of 0 an error for an xlib call? |
| 21:18:14 | ppl | yes |
| 21:18:30 | ppl | if it returns Status |
| 21:19:07 | Chestal | it does |
| 21:20:50 | Chestal | XParseColor(0x08088e38, 32, 0x0806dd46, 0xbffff9a0, 0x080903f0) = 0 |
| 21:21:04 | Chestal | but manpage says it only takes 4 arguments, hmm |
| 21:22:11 | Chestal | mal sehen, wie oft die Farbe noch wechselt |
| 21:22:14 | Chestal | oops |
| 21:22:19 | ppl | sometimes |
| 21:22:21 | ppl | ;) |
| 21:22:28 | ppl | norvegian? |
| 21:23:43 | Chestal | German |
| 21:24:10 | ppl | oh right.. die |
| 21:24:31 | ppl | I love how German sounds.. |
| 21:26:16 | Chestal | hm, I wonder how I can debug this XParseColor in more depth, I cannot even see the colorspec string with ltrace, it just dumps the pointer value |
| 21:27:29 | iLLf8d | hey cap gerbils world rocks |
| 21:27:37 | iLLf8d | that worlds alot of fun for a change |
| 21:28:06 | iLLf8d | its funny I mention to people that its a sneaky place and that they should explore it a bit |
| 21:28:08 | iLLf8d | they never listen |
| 21:28:14 | iLLf8d | knuckleheads |
| 21:35:44 | Chestal | hook sin his own debugging .so |
| 21:37:13 | iLLf8d | greetings chestal =) |
| 21:37:18 | iLLf8d | how goes it |
| 21:38:10 | Chestal | oh well, I'm debugging some nasty little culprit here |
| 21:38:31 | Chestal | hmm, XParseColiur is passed XtDefaultForegroudn as colour spec, that soudsn weird |
| 21:39:38 | Chestal | althoguh I do not really understand what the function is supposed to do anyway |
| 21:47:40 | Chestal | hmm, I added XtDefaultForegrodn to my rgb.txt |
| 21:47:47 | Chestal | but this doesn't seem right, somethign is messed up |
| 21:55:01 | Chestal | something is severely wrong here, but at least I fixed the symptoms |
| 21:55:11 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 21:55:27 | iLLf8d | so now you can be sick w/out knowing it |
| 21:55:33 | iLLf8d | =P |
| 21:55:34 | iLLf8d | jk |
| 22:08:38 | Chestal | I think we shoudl change the config filename to bzflag18, comments? |
| 22:08:52 | Chestal | several peopel have complained that their 1.7 configs got overwritten |
| 22:08:59 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 22:09:10 | iLLf8d | thinks it'd be a good idea |
| 22:09:25 | iLLf8d | an extra file won't hurt anyone |
| 22:09:41 | iLLf8d | mines gone too now heh |
| 22:09:44 | iLLf8d | my radar colors are messed |
| 22:09:55 | iLLf8d | I been too lazy to fixem |
| 22:12:14 | Chestal | I'll just commit it then, peopel who already upgraded will have to copy their config to the new name manually |
| 22:35:07 | ppl | ;) |
| 23:05:04 | MrApathyCream | heh, nice nick |
| 23:05:23 | | 'BZFlagIsReallyTimRiker' is 85% lame, MrApathyCream |
| 23:05:23 | MrApathyCream | ibot, nickometer BZFlagIsReallyTimRiker |
| 23:07:48 | | 'MrApathyCream' is 49% lame, Chestal |
| 23:07:48 | Chestal | ibot: nickometer MrApathyCream |
| 23:12:20 | Chestal | BZFlag: changed name of the config file for people who want to use 1.7 and 1.8 at the same time |
| 23:12:34 | Chestal | so you'll have to copy your config over to .bzflag18* |
| 23:20:35 | BZFlag | Chestal: good idea |
| 23:20:59 | BZFlag | .bzfrc ? |
| 23:22:51 | BZFlag | well. 18 is fine. |
| 23:27:08 | scanline | is back (gone 15:04:17) |