| 01:08:07 | jacques | hi |
| 01:11:55 | iLLf8d | lo |
| 01:11:56 | iLLf8d | how goes it |
| 01:12:20 | iLLf8d | is all reiled got one of those telephone calls from his credit card company that was automated |
| 01:12:23 | iLLf8d | I hate that shit |
| 01:12:32 | iLLf8d | says please hold (and they called me) |
| 01:12:43 | iLLf8d | of course I didn't know who called so I hung up on them heh |
| 01:12:48 | iLLf8d | fuckers |
| 01:15:39 | jacques | i hate that |
| 01:17:50 | iLLf8d | yeah then I asked whose calling when they called back and the guy tells me his name |
| 01:17:55 | iLLf8d | not who he's with |
| 01:18:03 | iLLf8d | so I hung up again heh |
| 01:18:10 | iLLf8d | then he was mad next call |
| 01:18:11 | iLLf8d | =P |
| 01:18:25 | iLLf8d | I was too tho |
| 01:18:53 | iLLf8d | I asked who he's calling and who he's representing he wouldn't say |
| 01:18:55 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 01:18:57 | iLLf8d | so click |
| 01:18:58 | iLLf8d | =P |
| 01:24:29 | jacques | that's illegal |
| 01:34:55 | iLLf8d | what is? |
| 01:35:05 | iLLf8d | me to hang up or him not to say who he's calling with |
| 01:38:49 | jacques | him not saying |
| 01:39:12 | jacques | they have to state their name company and business |
| 01:53:11 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 01:53:43 | iLLf8d | yeah well if he said my credit card companies name to start I wouldn't have hung up on him |
| 01:55:06 | jacques | they are assholes |
| 02:35:09 | jacques | how are shot-tank collisions detected? |
| 02:35:38 | jacques | is it against the geometry of the tank itself or is there a spherical bounding box? |
| 02:35:50 | jacques | and if so, is it bigger than the tank? |
| 02:38:18 | jacques | you know there are so many potential subtle ways to cheat it boggles the mind |
| 02:39:00 | jacques | I'm assuming collision detection is done by the client |
| 03:07:37 | jacques | :-\ |
| 03:52:35 | MrApathyCream | hey, i found your secret trap door on rings-decks, very nice |
| 04:04:11 | jacques | hi BZFlag |
| 04:08:26 | jacques | BZFlag: are you available for questions? |
| 04:14:38 | BZFlag | perhaps |
| 04:15:18 | BZFlag | my laptop keyboard fried, woah, 1024x768 sure looks grainy after being at 1600x1200 for so long. |
| 04:16:02 | BZFlag | loaner dell i3500. sound/pcmcia both broken. I'm on a d-link usb net card now. =( |
| 04:17:53 | BZFlag | brb |
| 04:18:23 | jacques | I'll ask anyway |
| 04:18:38 | jacques | how are shot-tank collisions detected? |
| 04:18:43 | vogon_jeltz | wonders if he should get back on the SDL-fu :/ |
| 04:18:52 | jacques | is it against the geometry of the tank itself or is there a spherical bounding box? |
| 04:19:02 | jacques | and if so, is it bigger than the tank? |
| 04:19:09 | vogon_jeltz | it's against a bounding slab |
| 04:19:13 | jacques | you know there are so many potential subtle ways to cheat it boggles the mind |
| 04:19:18 | jacques | I'm assuming collision detection is done by the client |
| 04:19:19 | vogon_jeltz | it's not noticeably bigger than the tank |
| 04:19:22 | vogon_jeltz | it is |
| 04:19:28 | vogon_jeltz | and you already said this earlier |
| 04:19:46 | jacques | vogon_jeltz: yeah but nobody replied and since BZFlag just showed up I thought I would ask again |
| 04:20:01 | vogon_jeltz | heheh |
| 04:20:19 | jacques | yeah I guess slab makes a lot more sense than sphere |
| 04:21:08 | jacques | is it really that hard to make the server do collision detection and "refereeing" ? |
| 04:21:25 | jacques | as in make sure tanks dont move in unallowed ways |
| 04:21:36 | vogon_jeltz | uhm, yeah |
| 04:21:39 | jacques | dont fire more times/more rapidly than allowed |
| 04:21:49 | jacques | it is? |
| 04:22:07 | vogon_jeltz | it involves making massive changes to the protocol and source |
| 04:22:23 | jacques | well sure. I understand that. |
| 04:22:32 | jacques | that's not what I meant by hard |
| 04:22:36 | vogon_jeltz | we could do it for 1.8 or 2.0, but... :P |
| 04:22:48 | jacques | yeah, I am thinking 1.8 or later |
| 04:23:00 | jacques | I'm thinking of the future |
| 04:23:02 | jacques | :- |
| 04:23:04 | jacques | :-D |
| 04:23:57 | jacques | if we put that stuff in the server, we'll only have to worry about cyborgs |
| 04:24:09 | jacques | auto-aim, auto-fire, that wort of thing |
| 04:24:10 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 04:25:10 | jacques | and of course, hacked servers |
| 04:25:29 | jacques | I've played mp shooters where ppl had hacked the servers to always let them win |
| 04:25:42 | BZFlag | jacques: iirc it's circular only and at the base of the tanks |
| 04:25:45 | jacques | based on their IP or callsign |
| 04:26:06 | jacques | BZFlag: hmm, well that's intersting... |
| 04:26:07 | vogon_jeltz | BZFlag: I think that's tank-on-object collision, not shot-on-tank |
| 04:26:17 | jacques | ah - that makes sense |
| 04:26:49 | jacques | but that does not explain how I can get stuck |
| 04:26:51 | vogon_jeltz | because in non-jumping servers, nobody'd ever get hit by shots |
| 04:26:53 | jacques | in a corner |
| 04:27:09 | BZFlag | ah, yes. I think tank/shot is a sphere. |
| 04:27:11 | jacques | if bound is circular |
| 04:27:36 | jacques | shere is easier to collision-detect |
| 04:27:40 | jacques | trivial even |
| 04:27:49 | BZFlag | tank/object is circular at (near?) the base. |
| 04:27:51 | jacques | slab is not much harder tho |
| 04:27:59 | vogon_jeltz | BZFlag: at the base, IIRC |
| 04:28:16 | BZFlag | vogon_jeltz: that's what I recall as well. |
| 04:28:21 | vogon_jeltz | yeah |
| 04:28:30 | jacques | BTW. I've noticed background pop-up on 1.8 |
| 04:28:42 | vogon_jeltz | might be getting involved with the Linux port of Progress Quest soon, so he might not have time to work on BZFlag for a few days |
| 04:28:44 | jacques | the mountains will disappear at extreme range |
| 04:29:12 | jacques | vogon_jeltz: is it graphical? I could not tell from the web site. |
| 04:29:27 | vogon_jeltz | jacques: heheh... it's graphical to some extent |
| 04:29:45 | vogon_jeltz | jacques: it's got amazing 3D |
| 04:30:02 | jacques | vogon_jeltz: opengl? |
| 04:30:12 | vogon_jeltz | no |
| 04:30:28 | jacques | if it's direct3d it might be a bear to port |
| 04:30:43 | vogon_jeltz | it's not D3D either... check it out |
| 04:31:20 | jacques | vogon_jeltz: I was not sure if it was worth the effort to install winex |
| 04:31:30 | vogon_jeltz | it's worth it |
| 04:32:17 | jacques | ascii graphics? |
| 04:32:31 | vogon_jeltz | no |
| 04:33:25 | jacques | so much mystery :-) |
| 05:01:31 | vogon_jeltz | w00ts |
| 05:01:42 | vogon_jeltz | I don't need the SDLVisual or SDLDisplay classes |
| 05:04:25 | vogon_jeltz | BZFlag: hmm... does anything outside of <foo>Window call methods in <foo>Visual or <foo>Display? |
| 05:04:55 | vogon_jeltz | BZFlag: if not, this'll be loads easier |
| 05:08:34 | BZFlag | not sure. ask crs ;-) |
| 06:10:46 | redcliffe | hi - could someone please help me figure out why when I log into my own public server, the client just freezes |
| 06:10:50 | redcliffe | my server is redcliffe.dyndns.org:5555 |
| 06:11:08 | redcliffe | it says "Trying...." and just stays there forever |
| 06:13:00 | redcliffe | anyone care to try redcliffe.dyndns.org:5555 to see if it freezes when trying for you too? |
| 06:19:02 | redcliffe | i've tried -noudp and that doesn't help |
| 06:23:48 | jacques | redcliffe: I've heard other ppl having that problem - are you running them both o nthe same machine? |
| 06:24:07 | redcliffe | jacques: no - the server is on my internet router machien |
| 06:24:25 | redcliffe | jacques: it's bound to the ppp0 interface on that machine |
| 06:24:33 | redcliffe | it worked once, then doesn't work any more |
| 06:25:47 | redcliffe | jacques: can you connect my server? |
| 06:26:18 | jacques | let me check |
| 06:26:34 | redcliffe | okay thanks |
| 06:27:53 | jacques | it just hung hard |
| 06:28:24 | redcliffe | yeah - that's what i'm getting too |
| 06:28:36 | redcliffe | it says accept() from x.x.x.x on 8 |
| 06:28:40 | redcliffe | that's on the console |
| 06:28:55 | redcliffe | but whenever connecting it just freezes |
| 06:29:38 | redcliffe | /usr/games/bzfs +f gm +f gm +f l -r +r -s 2 -j -t -public "Aussie Server" -ms 10 -mp 10 -i redcliffe.dyndns.org -p 5555 -publicaddr redcliffe.dyndns.org:5555 -world /usr/share/bzflag/hiway1.bzw & |
| 06:29:57 | redcliffe | that's from my init.d script for bzfs |
| 06:31:15 | redcliffe | anyone got any ideas what could be wrong? |
| 06:32:23 | jacques | redcliffe: I havent been hanging out here very long so I don't really know. |
| 06:32:39 | redcliffe | okay |
| 06:33:07 | redcliffe | i noticed that captain_proton's server did the same thing a few days |
| 06:33:08 | redcliffe | ago |
| 06:33:09 | jacques | it's been pretty quiet here today |
| 06:34:30 | redcliffe | i've noticed that :-) |
| 06:35:24 | jacques | :-) |
| 06:37:45 | redcliffe | just wish i could get this to work - the lag times to US servers are way to long for us here in aus |
| 06:37:52 | redcliffe | bbl |
| 06:38:28 | jacques | ok |
| 06:55:02 | redcliffe | back again |
| 06:55:12 | redcliffe | is that Tim Riker's just joining? |
| 06:55:15 | vogon_jeltz | yes |
| 06:55:19 | redcliffe | cool |
| 06:55:40 | redcliffe | anyone have any idea what my problem is with client freezes when trying to connect to my server? |
| 06:56:02 | redcliffe | like try and connect to redcliffe.dyndns.org:5555 - it will freeze at the "Trying..." bit |
| 07:05:29 | captain_proton | w000000! |
| 07:05:37 | captain_proton | Hi! How are you? |
| 07:05:37 | captain_proton | I send you this file in order to have your advice |
| 07:05:37 | captain_proton | See you later. Thanks |
| 07:05:51 | vogon_jeltz | ooh! |
| 07:05:54 | vogon_jeltz | send it to me! |
| 07:06:05 | captain_proton | addy? |
| 07:06:08 | redcliffe | lol |
| 07:06:10 | vogon_jeltz | vogon@icculus.org |
| 07:06:39 | captain_proton | sent |
| 07:06:39 | redcliffe | captain_proton: i had the same problem with your server a while back that i'm having now with mine - do you know what fixed your problem? |
| 07:07:02 | captain_proton | redcliffe: the world that i was running was too big, causing an overflow that (sometimes) crashes linux clients |
| 07:07:05 | captain_proton | what world are you using? |
| 07:07:20 | redcliffe | captain_proton: hiwaywar |
| 07:07:28 | captain_proton | hrm - that shouldn't cause a segfault |
| 07:07:32 | captain_proton | actually yes |
| 07:07:39 | captain_proton | that one has too many teleporters for linux clients |
| 07:07:39 | redcliffe | captain_proton: it worked once, but after that it's never worked again |
| 07:07:45 | redcliffe | ah okay |
| 07:07:52 | captain_proton | iirc |
| 07:08:02 | redcliffe | i'll try just randomly generated then |
| 07:08:48 | redcliffe | yeah - okay it works now |
| 07:09:27 | redcliffe | captain_proton: thanks!! :-) |
| 07:09:47 | redcliffe | btw - where did you get the original decks world? |
| 07:09:56 | captain_proton | a friend of mine made it =) |
| 07:09:57 | vogon_jeltz | TimRikerTest: way to IRC as r00t |
| 07:10:06 | captain_proton | sends TimRikerTest a .bashrc |
| 07:10:21 | captain_proton | grins |
| 07:10:23 | TimRikerTest | I'm l44t, huh? |
| 07:10:37 | redcliffe | ah okay |
| 07:10:38 | captain_proton | s/4/3/g |
| 07:10:47 | vogon_jeltz | yup, you're laat, alright |
| 07:10:58 | TimRikerTest | testing a java applet out. it's likely bouncing through a root/redir app. |
| 07:11:14 | redcliffe | is it currently possible to build ramps, or use custom textures in a world? |
| 07:11:20 | captain_proton | no |
| 07:11:36 | TimRikerTest | heh, l33t shesh |
| 07:11:38 | captain_proton | thats on the list for 1.8 |
| 07:11:50 | redcliffe | ah cool |
| 07:11:50 | TimRikerTest | er sheesh, ah well I'll give up on typing now. |
| 07:12:12 | captain_proton | from now on you'll just wetwire your brain directly to the ethernet jack? |
| 07:12:29 | BZFlag | captain_proton: ramps? they are not on the list yet. |
| 07:12:36 | captain_proton | BZFlag: custom models |
| 07:12:44 | BZFlag | yes, models are. |
| 07:12:54 | BZFlag | and custom textures too. |
| 07:12:57 | captain_proton | BZFlag: thus, custom polygons. thus, custom angles |
| 07:13:12 | captain_proton | there won't be a ramp primitive though |
| 07:13:16 | BZFlag | yes, but not likely to have ramp handling. |
| 07:13:36 | captain_proton | no? crs' world ideas provide for real collision detection against convex polyhedra |
| 07:13:39 | BZFlag | ie: you can slide down a surface, but not climb up one yet. |
| 07:13:40 | redcliffe | one thing that bugs me now is how when you hit the roof you stop dead and fall |
| 07:13:45 | captain_proton | well... |
| 07:13:52 | BZFlag | note the "ideas" in that. |
| 07:14:01 | captain_proton | considers |
| 07:14:11 | BZFlag | redcliffe: you get your server up? |
| 07:14:22 | redcliffe | BZFlag: yep it appears to be working now |
| 07:14:39 | redcliffe | BZFlag: the freeze problem was due to the hiwaywar world having too many teleporters |
| 07:14:52 | BZFlag | ah. you using -pr ? |
| 07:15:17 | redcliffe | BZFlag: no - i ended up not needing that - i just modded my firewall to allow tcp and udp to 5555 |
| 07:15:53 | BZFlag | captain_proton: I'm not saying that it won't happen, I'm just saying it is not on the table yet. It still might, but other things we already know will happen. |
| 07:16:06 | BZFlag | redcliffe: that won't work for long. |
| 07:16:10 | captain_proton | BZFlag: depending on how we do the collision detection it might be easy |
| 07:16:14 | jacques | modern machines shold have no problem doing the complex collision detection |
| 07:16:32 | BZFlag | captain_proton: agreed, it might be. |
| 07:16:35 | redcliffe | BZFlag: why? what does -pr do? |
| 07:16:37 | jacques | sphere collision is from like 30 years ago |
| 07:16:48 | captain_proton | we don't even do sphere right now |
| 07:16:58 | captain_proton | we do half-assed bounding boxes |
| 07:17:11 | BZFlag | redcliffe: bzflag requires a reconnect to the server. on all bu the latest servers that reconnect must happen on a random incoming port. |
| 07:17:27 | BZFlag | -pr sets the reconnect port to a defined value. |
| 07:17:36 | redcliffe | BZFlag: ah okay, so can i set -pr to 5555? |
| 07:17:45 | BZFlag | no |
| 07:17:55 | BZFlag | -pr 5556 would work |
| 07:18:01 | redcliffe | okay thanks |
| 07:18:02 | BZFlag | and open both ports. |
| 07:18:20 | BZFlag | the first for tcp/udp, the second for tcp only |
| 07:18:46 | BZFlag | but you may need a newer server if your version does not have -pr |
| 07:19:57 | BZFlag | I think 1.7e4 does not even have it, you will need 1.7e5 from cvs and build it. do the checkout with -r v1_7 to get the 1.7* tree |
| 07:19:58 | captain_proton | sigh |
| 07:20:12 | jacques | captain_proton: ok, I was just getting conflicting info before :-) *looks at BZFlag* |
| 07:20:27 | redcliffe | -pr 5556 just prints out the usage |
| 07:20:29 | BZFlag | jacques: about what? |
| 07:20:38 | BZFlag | redcliffe: are you listening? |
| 07:20:39 | redcliffe | i'm using 1.7e4 from debian unstable |
| 07:20:43 | jacques | BZFlag: about collision bounding shapes |
| 07:20:49 | redcliffe | BZFlag: yep |
| 07:20:57 | BZFlag | I've told you 3 times now. |
| 07:20:57 | redcliffe | ah okay |
| 07:21:21 | BZFlag | jacques: use the source, luke. ;-) |
| 07:21:33 | redcliffe | looks up the cvs addresses |
| 07:21:39 | jacques | vogon_jeltz said slabs, BZFlag said spheres |
| 07:21:40 | BZFlag | cvs.bzflag.org |
| 07:21:41 | captain_proton | glares at BZFlag for using a gnu-ism |
| 07:21:44 | jacques | ok, I guess I will have to |
| 07:22:54 | jacques | anyway, my point is - is there any reason other than code complexity to not to proper collision detection against polygons? |
| 07:23:00 | BZFlag | jacques: I think tank/object uses a circle at the base of the tank and simple shapes for buildings/pyr etc. |
| 07:23:13 | captain_proton | it uses a box at the bottom BZFlag |
| 07:23:18 | captain_proton | 1 rectangle |
| 07:23:19 | BZFlag | captain_proton: gnu-ism? where? |
| 07:23:27 | | captain_proton is nothing but a puking heap of inferior yoo-hoo. |
| 07:23:27 | BZFlag | ibot insult captain_proton |
| 07:23:28 | captain_proton | BZFlag: "use the source..." |
| 07:23:30 | jacques | BZFlag: rect sounds correct since I can get stuch in corners |
| 07:23:39 | captain_proton | inferior yoo-hoo? blah |
| 07:23:50 | BZFlag | heh |
| 07:23:52 | jacques | my initial question was about tank-shot collisions |
| 07:24:01 | BZFlag | redcliffe: you on your way? |
| 07:24:06 | redcliffe | BZFlag: i think this sort of info should go in the man page :-) |
| 07:24:12 | captain_proton | starts drinking some -superior- yoo-hoo |
| 07:24:12 | redcliffe | BZFlag: yep - downloading now |
| 07:24:28 | redcliffe | cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.bzflag.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/bzflag co bzflag -r v1_7 |
| 07:24:31 | redcliffe | is that the command? |
| 07:26:17 | BZFlag | redcliffe: looks right. |
| 07:26:31 | BZFlag | redcliffe: 1.8 will use one udp listen port and nothing else. |
| 07:26:46 | redcliffe | yep got it now |
| 07:27:00 | redcliffe | thanks |
| 07:27:09 | BZFlag | no prob. |
| 07:27:26 | redcliffe | at least now all the aussie bzflag users won't have to cope with 400ms lag to the USA servers :-) |
| 07:27:30 | BZFlag | ponders releasing another 1.7 version with -pr so it can hit woody. ;-) |
| 07:27:43 | BZFlag | redcliffe: yeah! ;-) |
| 07:27:46 | jacques | redcliffe: yeah that sounds painful |
| 07:28:26 | jacques | but that means I will have a harder time findig ppl to play with |
| 07:28:37 | redcliffe | jacques: yeah - it can get hard to hit people |
| 07:28:42 | jacques | since I tend to play when the ppl from japan (and I assume from australia) are playing |
| 07:29:10 | redcliffe | jacques: you could always try mine and see what sort of lag you get |
| 07:29:14 | jacques | so higher lag makes it harder to hit ppl? |
| 07:29:19 | jacques | redcliffe: is it up now? |
| 07:29:20 | BZFlag | redcliffe: I guess my SF response to have you join IRC is not relevant now. ;-) |
| 07:30:22 | redcliffe | jacques: not yet - just building right now |
| 07:30:44 | redcliffe | BZFlag: lol - i didn't see that, i just joined here anyway :-) |
| 07:32:13 | jacques | anyone recall where the collision detection code is in 1.7? |
| 07:32:27 | vogon_jeltz | it should be in ServerLink.cxx |
| 07:33:09 | jacques | vogon_jeltz: thanks :-) |
| 07:33:13 | vogon_jeltz | npx |
| 07:33:19 | redcliffe | jacques: try now |
| 07:33:36 | BZFlag | redcliffe: yeah, I actually saw you in here before I hit submit, but sent it anyway. |
| 07:33:44 | jacques | hmg, word collision (or coll) is not in that file |
| 07:33:52 | jacques | redcliffe: ok, just a sec |
| 07:34:02 | redcliffe | BZFlag: :-) brb testing server |
| 07:34:31 | vogon_jeltz | jacques: you are talking about tank-object collision detection, right? |
| 07:34:59 | jacques | vogon_jeltz: tank-object and tank-shot |
| 07:35:13 | vogon_jeltz | yeah, tank-object is in ServerLink, if I recall correctly |
| 07:35:26 | jacques | redcliffe: my client is hung connecting to your server |
| 07:35:33 | jacques | redcliffe: I am using a linux client BTW |
| 07:35:49 | jacques | vogon_jeltz: ok, I'll have to scan the code then |
| 07:35:51 | redcliffe | jacques: hmm - it works on mine |
| 07:36:04 | jacques | redcliffe: I'm hung :-( |
| 07:36:15 | captain_proton | i'd exhausted |
| 07:36:26 | jacques | redcliffe: you have a firewall? |
| 07:36:36 | jacques | would that even matter in this case? |
| 07:36:43 | redcliffe | jacques: yeah, but it's open for 5555 and 5556 |
| 07:36:48 | redcliffe | no |
| 07:37:12 | redcliffe | there's another connect, but i can't see him in the game either, so maybe he's hung too |
| 07:37:15 | jacques | redcliffe: well try to get another sample - sample size of 2 is not too usefule :-) |
| 07:37:27 | redcliffe | lol |
| 07:37:56 | jacques | ok, it timed out - error connecting to server |
| 07:40:09 | redcliffe | no |
| 07:40:13 | redcliffe | hmm |
| 07:41:27 | jacques | :-\ |
| 07:42:12 | redcliffe | anyone else try it? |
| 07:43:51 | iLLf8d | try what? |
| 07:44:08 | redcliffe | iLLf8d: my server - redcliffe.dyndns.org:5555 |
| 07:44:16 | iLLf8d | 1.7 or 1.8? |
| 07:44:22 | captain_proton | tries to decide whether or not to shower now or tomorrow morning |
| 07:44:25 | redcliffe | 1.7 |
| 07:44:42 | jacques | maybe some other kind soul will try to conncet to your server redcliffe |
| 07:45:05 | jacques | oops I started typing that a few minutes ago :-) |
| 07:45:21 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 07:45:23 | iLLf8d | hangs |
| 07:45:35 | jacques | does bzflag 1.7 use threads at all on unix? |
| 07:45:35 | iLLf8d | I had to kill bzflag |
| 07:45:50 | jacques | iLLf8d: it will eventually timeout after like 5 minutes |
| 07:45:53 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 07:45:54 | BZFlag | can someone not on xmission (an isp) try xmission.bzflag.org ? |
| 07:45:59 | iLLf8d | sure |
| 07:46:06 | jacques | BZFlag: 1.7 or 1.8 ? |
| 07:46:15 | BZFlag | jacques: no threads. the audio get's a process though. |
| 07:46:21 | BZFlag | jacques: heh, 1.7 |
| 07:46:32 | iLLf8d | lowpingbastard.com? |
| 07:46:34 | BZFlag | though if it works I'll put up a 1.8 too. |
| 07:46:36 | redcliffe | hmm |
| 07:46:39 | iLLf8d | pretty splash screen |
| 07:46:41 | jacques | I'm there |
| 07:46:44 | iLLf8d | seems to work BZFlag |
| 07:46:52 | captain_proton | splash screen? |
| 07:46:58 | iLLf8d | well its a graphic |
| 07:47:12 | iLLf8d | yeah its a splash sure |
| 07:47:19 | iLLf8d | you click on it brings y9ou to the site |
| 07:47:39 | captain_proton | what is that site supposed to be? |
| 07:47:40 | iLLf8d | that yours bz? |
| 07:47:48 | jacques | why does it show lagstats of 0ms ? |
| 07:48:05 | iLLf8d | someone keep an eye out for aldeberan |
| 07:48:08 | captain_proton | jacques: it shows 0ms until it has enough data to calculate its average |
| 07:48:12 | redcliffe | iLLf8d: i can't figure that out, i can connect fine now, but noone else can |
| 07:48:15 | iLLf8d | he should be moseying in |
| 07:48:24 | iLLf8d | sounds like a firewall issue |
| 07:48:27 | captain_proton | redcliffe: did you unblock tcp:5556? |
| 07:48:31 | iLLf8d | you in linux or windows |
| 07:48:37 | redcliffe | captain_proton: yes |
| 07:48:39 | redcliffe | linux |
| 07:48:49 | iLLf8d | drop your trowsers and test it |
| 07:48:50 | captain_proton | redcliffe: and you used -pr 5556 ? |
| 07:48:58 | iLLf8d | then you know if its your firewall or not |
| 07:49:19 | redcliffe | ah - try again now |
| 07:49:21 | iLLf8d | don't think anyone here is maliscious so... |
| 07:49:24 | redcliffe | i just found a typo in my firewall |
| 07:49:37 | redcliffe | i had udp 5556 opened twice :-P |
| 07:49:58 | iLLf8d | I just got in |
| 07:50:03 | iLLf8d | you adi? |
| 07:50:11 | redcliffe | i'll just jump in |
| 07:50:50 | captain_proton | i'm gonna go to sleep |
| 07:50:52 | captain_proton | goodnight fellas |
| 07:50:57 | jacques | captain_proton: aaah, thanks |
| 07:53:40 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 07:53:42 | iLLf8d | his server is fucked |
| 07:53:47 | iLLf8d | night porton |
| 07:54:57 | redcliffe | iLLf8d: did you have the same problems tankersomthing was having? |
| 07:55:08 | BZFlag | which? |
| 07:55:15 | iLLf8d | dude i'm tankenstein heh |
| 07:55:30 | redcliffe | ah okay |
| 07:55:41 | redcliffe | BZFlag: he couldn't see my shots |
| 07:55:58 | redcliffe | BZFlag: and i shot him a hundred times without him exploding |
| 07:56:19 | redcliffe | i'm on the debian 1.7e4 client |
| 07:56:26 | iLLf8d | yeah and when he typed it all came out as me saying it |
| 07:56:27 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 07:56:35 | iLLf8d | i'm on debian too |
| 07:56:42 | iLLf8d | just running e5 client |
| 07:56:47 | redcliffe | i'll try restarting the server |
| 07:56:59 | iLLf8d | I can run e4 also |
| 07:57:02 | iLLf8d | lemme try to connect witht hat |
| 07:57:35 | redcliffe | okay restarted now |
| 07:57:44 | redcliffe | trying again |
| 07:58:07 | iLLf8d | ok\ |
| 07:59:41 | jacques | is the big hud box the limit of speed? |
| 07:59:58 | jacques | I mean is there any point to putting the cursor all the way at the top of the screen to go faster? |
| 08:00:04 | jacques | I cant tell |
| 08:00:23 | iLLf8d | hey BZFlag seems that debian has issues with cleint/server on the same machine |
| 08:00:32 | iLLf8d | he's having the same troubles I was having |
| 08:00:43 | iLLf8d | where you die when you kill someone |
| 08:00:55 | iLLf8d | maybe its not my router after all |
| 08:01:01 | redcliffe | okay |
| 08:01:01 | iLLf8d | he said he's not using a router |
| 08:01:24 | redcliffe | any ideas on that one? |
| 08:01:35 | iLLf8d | dude i've had that same trouble for a long time |
| 08:01:37 | iLLf8d | I dunno |
| 08:01:42 | iLLf8d | I'm running debian sid |
| 08:01:52 | iLLf8d | what about you and a 2.4.17 kernel maybe |
| 08:02:11 | iLLf8d | what kinda NIC do you ahve |
| 08:02:14 | redcliffe | i gotta go |
| 08:02:18 | iLLf8d | is it a tulip chipset? |
| 08:02:21 | iLLf8d | oops he gone |
| 08:03:12 | Aldebaran | I found it |
| 08:03:29 | MrApathyCream | didn't know it was lost |
| 08:03:38 | Aldebaran | it wasn't lost, I was |
| 08:03:52 | Aldebaran | tankenstein said to come here |
| 08:04:09 | Aldebaran | but I havn't used irc since 1986-89 |
| 08:04:14 | jacques | heh |
| 08:04:18 | BZFlag | iLLf8d: I do all my development on debian and run client/server all the time. |
| 08:04:21 | Aldebaran | and I ended up at irc.openirc.net |
| 08:05:36 | jacques | wow it sure is a lot slower in a window than fullscreen |
| 08:05:41 | Aldebaran | I should get the cvs so I am ready when tank gets here |
| 08:05:46 | iLLf8d | yo |
| 08:05:47 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 08:05:52 | iLLf8d | didn't think you were gonna show up |
| 08:05:56 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 08:06:00 | iLLf8d | bz sid? |
| 08:06:05 | iLLf8d | greetings alde |
| 08:10:33 | BZFlag | do does xmission.bzflag.org look ok? |
| 08:11:15 | BZFlag | iLLf8d: yeah, sid. 2.4.17 at present. |
| 08:11:27 | iLLf8d | yeah looks good |
| 08:11:30 | iLLf8d | that yours? |
| 08:11:41 | iLLf8d | I was running mozilla .98 |
| 08:11:53 | MrApathyCream | couple people got booted on fire, say they had udp on |
| 08:11:54 | iLLf8d | bz whats the 1.7e5 tree? |
| 08:11:58 | iLLf8d | 1_7e? |
| 08:12:27 | MrApathyCream | cvs up -r v1_7 bzflag |
| 08:14:30 | BZFlag | or cvs up -Pdr v1_7 |
| 08:15:15 | BZFlag | who was on that had udp working? |
| 08:15:20 | BZFlag | you? |
| 08:15:30 | MrApathyCream | i had no problems |
| 08:16:02 | MrApathyCream | jh, who I believe knows what's up says he had it on, but was still kicked |
| 08:16:27 | BZFlag | hmm. might be a fw issue then. |
| 08:16:29 | MrApathyCream | I was first one in, though, maybe that's it |
| 08:16:37 | iLLf8d | apathy we're getting a no such tag |
| 08:16:46 | MrApathyCream | no such tag? |
| 08:17:16 | BZFlag | cvs -d :ext:anonymous@cvs.bzflag.org:/cvs/bzflag co bzflag -r v1_7 |
| 08:17:22 | MrApathyCream | ah |
| 08:17:58 | BZFlag | cvs -d :ext:anonymous@cvs.bzflag.org:/cvsroot/bzflag co bzflag -r v1_7 |
| 08:18:14 | MrApathyCream | cvs_root right? |
| 08:18:20 | BZFlag | no _ |
| 08:18:33 | MrApathyCream | hmmm, i guess i type without thinking |
| 08:18:44 | BZFlag | heh, well so did I. |
| 08:18:57 | MrApathyCream | can use -d:pserver:..... whats's the diff for anonymous? |
| 08:19:49 | iLLf8d | hrm |
| 08:19:53 | iLLf8d | getting other crap now |
| 08:19:55 | iLLf8d | sheesh |
| 08:20:10 | BZFlag | ah crap. yes, pserver for anonymous. |
| 08:20:18 | iLLf8d | asking me for login |
| 08:20:22 | BZFlag | cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.bzflag.org:/cvsroot/bzflag co bzflag -r v1_7 |
| 08:20:22 | iLLf8d | ie ssh keys |
| 08:20:23 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 08:20:37 | iLLf8d | neener@lucifer:/tmp$ cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.bzflag.org:/cvsroot/bzflag co bzflag -r v1_7 |
| 08:20:37 | iLLf8d | cvs server: cannot find module `-r' - ignored |
| 08:20:37 | iLLf8d | cvs server: cannot find module `v1_7' - ignored |
| 08:20:38 | iLLf8d | cvs [checkout aborted]: cannot expand modules |
| 08:20:38 | BZFlag | ok, do a cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.bzflag.org:/cvsroot/bzflag login |
| 08:20:53 | BZFlag | then |
| 08:21:04 | BZFlag | cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.bzflag.org:/cvsroot/bzflag co -r v1_7 bzflag |
| 08:21:08 | BZFlag | does that work? |
| 08:21:39 | iLLf8d | that worked |
| 08:22:32 | MrApathyCream | do you even need to login to do a co?, don't think so |
| 08:22:40 | iLLf8d | I don't normally |
| 08:22:45 | iLLf8d | with that one you do tho |
| 08:22:51 | iLLf8d | with 1.8 I don't bother |
| 08:23:38 | iLLf8d | my normal command is this alone: cvs -d ":pserver:anonymous@cvs.bzflag.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/bzflag" co bzflag |
| 08:23:50 | Aldebaran | it won't let me login |
| 08:23:50 | iLLf8d | and that works but for some reason that v1_7 didn't wanna play nice |
| 08:24:14 | MrApathyCream | cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.bzflag.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/bzflag login |
| 08:24:15 | iLLf8d | Alde type environ and make sure nothings set for CVSROOT |
| 08:24:21 | iLLf8d | sorry env |
| 08:24:23 | MrApathyCream | just hit enter for password |
| 08:24:27 | iLLf8d | or envr I forget the command |
| 08:24:59 | MrApathyCream | -d should override CVSROOT i think |
| 08:25:02 | iLLf8d | do a cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.bzflag.org:/cvsroot/bzflag login |
| 08:25:04 | iLLf8d | then |
| 08:25:09 | iLLf8d | cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.bzflag.org:/cvsroot/bzflag co -r v1_7 bzflag |
| 08:25:16 | iLLf8d | that worked when I just tried it in that order |
| 08:25:33 | BZFlag | ok |
| 08:26:21 | Aldebaran | it asks for a password when I hit enter it gives me my shell prompt |
| 08:26:27 | iLLf8d | huh |
| 08:26:33 | iLLf8d | you have a firewall |
| 08:26:33 | iLLf8d | ? |
| 08:26:39 | Aldebaran | yes |
| 08:26:54 | Aldebaran | but am using the new iptables so shouldn't matter?? |
| 08:27:08 | iLLf8d | asking i'm sending the tarball of it to you |
| 08:27:28 | iLLf8d | dcc style |
| 08:27:38 | iLLf8d | or you can download it from my website if need be |
| 08:27:53 | iLLf8d | just tar -zxvf it |
| 08:27:59 | iLLf8d | where you want it |
| 08:28:11 | BZFlag | Aldebaran: that's ok. (the password then nothing) |
| 08:28:34 | BZFlag | Aldebaran: do the two steps above: |
| 08:28:45 | BZFlag | cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.bzflag.org:/cvsroot/bzflag login |
| 08:28:50 | BZFlag | cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.bzflag.org:/cvsroot/bzflag co -r v1_7 bzflag |
| 08:29:06 | Aldebaran | oh the second step from my prompt... |
| 08:29:07 | jacques | how come the two ppl with the highest scores are the laggiest? |
| 08:29:17 | jacques | > 500ms and 770+ ms |
| 08:29:30 | jacques | in most games more lag == disadvantage |
| 08:29:40 | iLLf8d | that tarball I sentya has the same thing in it |
| 08:30:02 | Aldebaran | ok result of second step is > prompt |
| 08:30:22 | Aldebaran | oops |
| 08:31:11 | iLLf8d | jacques not in bz always heh sometimes alot of lag makesem hard to hit heh |
| 08:31:17 | | BZFlag: Operators killed when huge stack of backup tapes fell over. |
| 08:31:17 | BZFlag | ibot: excuse |
| 08:31:19 | iLLf8d | and then most people stop shooting atem |
| 08:32:31 | MrApathyCream | cvs uses port 2401 I think, open in firewall? |
| 08:32:39 | jacques | iLLf8d: what about when they both are on top of buildings with GM ? |
| 08:32:56 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 08:32:59 | iLLf8d | that helps too |
| 08:33:26 | MrApathyCream | One oddity about GMs now that were talking, My guided missile falls to work, once i die |
| 08:33:28 | jacques | heh |
| 08:33:43 | jacques | MrApathyCream: I noticed that - it's like it loses target lock |
| 08:33:48 | MrApathyCream | If it were locked on, you'd think it would stay locked on |
| 08:33:58 | jacques | MrApathyCream: depends where the sensors are :-) |
| 08:34:40 | jacques | and how it locks - if it locks from tank radar and is controlled by tank then it would make sense to lose lock when tank is destroyed |
| 08:34:44 | | BZFlag is nothing but a puking quart of tempestuous cat hair. |
| 08:34:44 | MrApathyCream | ibot, insult BZFlag |
| 08:35:16 | BZFlag | GMs are guided by the shooter. when the shooter is killed, the GM flies straight. |
| 08:35:40 | jacques | BZFlag: that's how they behave |
| 08:35:48 | vogon_jeltz | is away: TV |
| 08:35:50 | BZFlag | yep. |
| 08:36:32 | BZFlag | wonders what happens if you drop the GM flag. do they also fly straight? |
| 08:36:45 | MrApathyCream | You would think |
| 08:36:47 | jacques | heh, havent ever tested that |
| 08:36:58 | jacques | i only get gm once in a blue moon |
| 08:37:02 | MrApathyCream | heh, obviously... |
| 08:37:09 | BZFlag | me neither. I almost never drop GM on purpose. |
| 08:37:11 | jacques | then I have a brief killing spree before I die |
| 08:37:34 | BZFlag | well. must go box TuxScreens. cya |
| 08:37:56 | jacques | hmm I wanted to ask how many were left |
| 08:38:24 | MrApathyCream | running stats on web site i think |
| 08:38:58 | MrApathyCream | over 400 units, it says |
| 08:39:38 | MrApathyCream | every get it working alde? |
| 08:39:45 | MrApathyCream | c/every/ever/ |
| 08:39:55 | iLLf8d | hey bz push for phantom zone people to be able to kill one another |
| 08:40:04 | iLLf8d | almost like an alternative reality =) |
| 08:40:14 | MrApathyCream | would be simple to do |
| 08:40:28 | MrApathyCream | course, it's rare that two tanks have PZ at same time |
| 08:40:44 | jacques | MrApathyCream: well I heard last week there were 402 left and since he's boxing some... |
| 08:40:50 | MrApathyCream | heh |
| 08:40:58 | MrApathyCream | some == 1 :) |
| 08:41:09 | jacques | pz is interesting |
| 08:41:17 | MrApathyCream | too weak imo |
| 08:41:20 | jacques | would be good for spying in CTF |
| 08:41:40 | jacques | hmm I forgot we have radar |
| 08:41:44 | jacques | so never mind |
| 08:41:46 | MrApathyCream | no compensation for being able to be killed by SB, SW |
| 08:41:57 | jacques | wow I did not know that |
| 08:42:08 | MrApathyCream | yup, so don't be smug carrying it :) |
| 08:42:15 | jacques | good to know |
| 08:45:15 | MrApathyCream | wanders off in an alusive attempt to find 'beauty sleep' |
| 08:45:46 | iLLf8d | hey guys |
| 08:45:58 | iLLf8d | you know what package he needs here? |
| 08:46:09 | iLLf8d | OpenGLTexture.cxx:17:20: GL/glu.h: No such file or directory make[3]: *** [OpenGLTexture.o] Error 1 |
| 09:03:00 | iLLf8d | he got it running =) |
| 09:47:49 | vogon_jeltz | is back (gone 01:12:01) |
| 14:49:53 | vogon_jeltz | is away: 5133p |
| 17:26:25 | captain_proton | looks around |
| 17:32:24 | captain_proton | greets crs23 |
| 17:32:36 | crs23 | hey, how's the particle system going? |
| 17:32:41 | captain_proton | slowly |
| 17:33:06 | crs23 | hmm |
| 17:33:22 | crs23 | i've been thinking about swapping in XMLTree |
| 17:33:39 | captain_proton | =) |
| 17:34:04 | captain_proton | the fellow who wrote it said if we wait just a little while he's fixing up some (minor) issues in tree and XMLTree |
| 17:34:32 | crs23 | if it's interface compatible we can still go ahead |
| 17:34:42 | captain_proton | yes it should be |
| 17:34:52 | captain_proton | mostly stuff like converting it to std::map ;) |
| 17:35:06 | crs23 | k. think i'll put XMLTree in today, then. |
| 17:35:13 | captain_proton | wheee |
| 17:35:42 | crs23 | the readers code should be cleaner and i can merge reading of all formats into a single place |
| 17:37:24 | captain_proton | yeah |
| 17:37:33 | captain_proton | just passing XMLTree's around will be fun too |
| 17:40:01 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 17:40:25 | captain_proton | is it possible to have my particle system know about all the obstacles? |
| 17:41:15 | crs23 | good question. the obstacle system hasn't been designed yet. i think the answer will be yes. |
| 17:41:24 | captain_proton | good |
| 17:41:47 | captain_proton | because i'd like to do some fast collision-detection with them |
| 17:42:07 | crs23 | you should be able to pass in a line segment and get the intersection point and normal |
| 17:42:45 | captain_proton | that routine will be optimized to all hell i hope? |
| 17:43:32 | crs23 | i hope. :-) |
| 17:44:02 | crs23 | probably you'll use a bounding box to choose a subset of obstacles then test only those |
| 17:44:12 | captain_proton | yeah |
| 17:44:23 | crs23 | that'd be a bounding box around all (or several) your particles |
| 17:44:25 | captain_proton | only need to test against obstacles within the reach of the particles |
| 17:46:38 | CodeWeaver | I'm in server two if anybody wants to play. |
| 17:47:01 | crs23 | crs23 starts working on integrating XMLTree |
| 17:47:12 | captain_proton | crs23: try /me <action> |
| 17:49:14 | captain_proton | what exactly is the stipple again? |
| 17:50:11 | crs23 | is a 32x32 screen-aligned tiled bitmask on polygon drawing. does that make sense? |
| 17:50:26 | captain_proton | no ;) |
| 17:50:59 | captain_proton | i'll just ignore that for now |
| 17:51:44 | crs23 | ok. each 1 in the stipple allows a pixel to be drawn, each 0 prevents it. |
| 17:51:56 | captain_proton | hmmm ok |
| 17:52:14 | crs23 | like a stencil applied to your window |
| 17:52:33 | captain_proton | ahh |
| 17:52:45 | captain_proton | decides not to implement normals for particles |
| 17:54:08 | captain_proton | what is a bundle? |
| 17:54:44 | crs23 | good question. it's a concept i added for animation... |
| 17:55:17 | crs23 | one bundle holds colors, texcoord, normals, and vertices. you interpolate between bundles for animation. |
| 17:59:53 | captain_proton | time efficient but not space ;) |
| 18:01:49 | crs23 | a good tradeoff for fast rendering! |
| 18:02:36 | captain_proton | yes |
| 18:03:46 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 18:04:13 | captain_proton | once we have framerate throttling we might want to implment some sort of 'smart calculation' |
| 18:04:32 | crs23 | what's that? |
| 18:04:58 | captain_proton | ie. when a frame takes a significantly smaller time to draw than the frame time, assume we have time to do calculate out further certain things |
| 18:05:59 | captain_proton | like more frames of the particle system... |
| 18:06:58 | captain_proton | it looks like the geometry node uses a bundle stack? |
| 18:07:03 | crs23 | more future frames? |
| 18:07:17 | captain_proton | erk |
| 18:07:19 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 18:07:20 | crs23 | geometry uses a bundle list |
| 18:07:21 | captain_proton | nevermind that |
| 18:07:46 | captain_proton | can't do future frames because you don't know the times |
| 18:07:49 | captain_proton | bleh |
| 18:08:02 | captain_proton | is too used to non-real-time stuff |
| 18:08:16 | crs23 | besides, if you have time to spare you won't need to precompute anything |
| 18:08:39 | captain_proton | smacks the second-system |
| 18:09:17 | crs23 | on second thought, i'll hold off on XMLTree. i think the code needs cleaning up but, more importantly, it needs to pick a license agreement. |
| 18:09:33 | captain_proton | GPL |
| 18:09:52 | crs23 | then it should say so and he should assert a copyright. |
| 18:10:01 | captain_proton | ok i'll tell him |
| 18:11:14 | crs23 | cool. if you think he can do that quickly, i'll go ahead and make changes but won't check them in until i've got his license and copyright notice. |
| 18:11:49 | captain_proton | yeah he should be able to do it as soon as he gets my email |
| 18:12:07 | crs23 | goes back to adding XMLTree |
| 18:14:27 | Chestal | re |
| 18:14:34 | Chestal | hm, can GL do bump mapping? |
| 18:14:37 | crs23 | hi Chestal. |
| 18:15:03 | Chestal | that's the one thing my Matrox card is good at :- |
| 18:15:04 | crs23 | er, yes but not as simply as turning on the bumpmapping flag. |
| 18:15:22 | crs23 | there are several techniques |
| 18:16:09 | Chestal | to be honest, I haven't the slightest idea, where it could be applied for bz. Ok, the brick walls could be bumpmapped of course |
| 18:16:55 | crs23 | sure. the tanks, too. |
| 18:17:31 | captain_proton | SceneNodeVFFloat is a vector? |
| 18:18:00 | crs23 | yes, of floats. |
| 18:18:19 | captain_proton | trailing underscore now? |
| 18:19:33 | crs23 | uhh... what for? not for data members. |
| 18:19:55 | captain_proton | so its still leading? |
| 18:20:04 | Chestal | when I find the time these days I guess I'll post some observation and ideas regarding current and future netcode tot the dev-ml |
| 18:20:27 | crs23 | data members don't get an underscore. it's only used to disambiguate parameters hidden by data members. |
| 18:20:38 | captain_proton | crs23: thats what i'm talking about |
| 18:20:41 | captain_proton | leading or trailing now? |
| 18:21:17 | crs23 | well, the leading underscores haven't been changed to trailing yet (i think). either way is fine. make it trailing, i guess. |
| 18:21:23 | captain_proton | k |
| 18:21:31 | Valoche | hi there |
| 18:21:43 | captain_proton | hey Valoche |
| 18:21:50 | crs23 | hi |
| 18:21:52 | captain_proton | finishes a class |
| 18:21:52 | Chestal | hi Valoche. Just read your bug description. That's odd, I thnk I remember having seen cases where a red tank took red flags on green base and died |
| 18:22:23 | Chestal | it should be possible to resolve the _ issue with a regexp anyway I guess |
| 18:23:08 | crs23 | red players should die if they take the red flag on the green base but... |
| 18:23:11 | Valoche | yep, but if you jump over a base and drop the flag while in air, it won't be captured |
| 18:23:25 | captain_proton | and then when you try to grab it... ;) |
| 18:23:30 | Valoche | ka-boom ;) |
| 18:23:34 | crs23 | blue or purple players can take the red flag on green base. if it's dropped it should get moved off the base automatically. |
| 18:24:00 | Valoche | well actually I dropped the flag from under the base |
| 18:24:01 | crs23 | ah, that's not in the bug description. |
| 18:24:15 | Chestal | btw., I have an experimental fix for the other ctf-flag-bugs, but these should be gone with 1.8 anyway |
| 18:24:37 | Valoche | ah, 1.8... :-)))) |
| 18:25:20 | captain_proton | Valoche: still waiting on sf? |
| 18:25:38 | Valoche | yep, I don't know what they are doing |
| 18:26:03 | Chestal | btw.: are we going to include player database / authentication / karma system in 1.8? haven't read anything in the todo or similar tetx files (didn't have the time to read them thoroughly, though) |
| 18:26:05 | crs23 | captain_proton: XMLNode needs line and column number annotation when read from a stream for error reporting during semantic processing |
| 18:26:20 | captain_proton | true... |
| 18:26:33 | captain_proton | tries to choose an appropriate data structure |
| 18:26:42 | crs23 | Chestal: i'd like to. it'll enhance the sense of community. |
| 18:27:26 | Valoche | speaking of which I'm setting up a CTF site, but I'm waiting for SF to enable outgoing e-mails. It's been 2 weeks... |
| 18:27:27 | Chestal | crs: shouldn't be too hard to implement, the hard part probably is to develop a good concept |
| 18:27:40 | captain_proton | Valoche: request it again or send an email |
| 18:27:54 | captain_proton | having the karma network 'balance itself' is going to be the hardest part |
| 18:28:12 | crs23 | Chestal, could you write up a proposal? |
| 18:28:22 | captain_proton | chooses a deque |
| 18:28:38 | crs23 | nothing formal, just list the highlights. |
| 18:29:04 | Chestal | crs23: hmm, maybe. I am not too sure about several details. I'll try and write _something_ this week though, so we can discuss several points |
| 18:29:13 | Chestal | I think I'll use the dev-nl |
| 18:29:19 | Chestal | dev-ml, even |
| 18:29:57 | Chestal | valoche: we should also think about what changes would be need for a tournament / league |
| 18:30:03 | Chestal | need -> neat |
| 18:30:44 | Chestal | I must hurry to the cinema now, later |
| 18:30:53 | Valoche | okay, I'll think about it |
| 18:31:45 | captain_proton | color should be a float[4]? |
| 18:32:49 | crs23 | yes, ya gotta include alpha. |
| 18:33:05 | captain_proton | blended particles...wheeee |
| 18:42:15 | captain_proton | this is gonna be cool =) |
| 18:42:47 | captain_proton | it only keeps the active particles around...and destroys them when they die...all in constant time |
| 18:42:54 | captain_proton | grins |
| 18:51:16 | crs23 | grr, XMLTree doesn't have iterators that iterate! |
| 18:52:05 | captain_proton | err |
| 18:52:08 | captain_proton | hang a sec |
| 18:52:48 | captain_proton | perhaps we should wait until he finishes fixing them up =) |
| 18:52:53 | captain_proton | However, you might want to hold off on that for a little while at least, since I'm cleaning up tree<> and XMLTree a bit (visualize: working traversal |
| 18:52:54 | captain_proton | iterators). |
| 18:52:59 | captain_proton | hehe |
| 18:54:44 | crs23 | yeah, XMLTree looks a bit immature yet. it's also has far too much copying going on. don't forget that we'll need iterators over just immediate children in addition to those that do full traversals. |
| 18:56:06 | captain_proton | what is the accepted function for random floats? |
| 18:56:58 | crs23 | it also doesn't use const consistently (it hardly uses it at all), doesn't follow std C++ collection conventions all that closely, and uses public data members. |
| 18:57:13 | captain_proton | yech |
| 18:57:48 | captain_proton | i'll fix it up a bit mebbe |
| 18:57:54 | captain_proton | now - about random floats... |
| 18:59:09 | crs23 | i like the idea of parsing the XML into a tree then traversing that to do semantic processing, though. |
| 18:59:35 | captain_proton | wimpers |
| 18:59:39 | captain_proton | random floats? |
| 18:59:50 | crs23 | what about them? |
| 18:59:58 | captain_proton | i don't suppose there's a randf function? |
| 19:00:28 | crs23 | bzfrand() generates numbers [0,1) |
| 19:00:55 | crs23 | currently it's a macro in common.h |
| 19:01:04 | captain_proton | ahh thats exactly what i needed |
| 19:39:40 | captain_proton | hey crs23 - still here? |
| 19:40:46 | captain_proton | whats the formatting convention for members of an enum? |
| 19:45:11 | crs23 | uh, i've been somewhat inconsistent. lately i'm using kFirstLetterCapitalized or FirstLetterCapitalized. |
| 19:46:56 | captain_proton | i'll use FirstLetterCapitalized |
| 19:49:37 | captain_proton | this is actually starting to take shape =) |
| 19:50:20 | crs23 | cool. what features will it start off with? |
| 19:50:58 | captain_proton | lesee... |
| 19:51:15 | captain_proton | the emitter will be square (only) |
| 19:52:06 | captain_proton | the emitter itself has a position and velocity, and a field angle (possible pitch and yaw of the particles) |
| 19:52:19 | captain_proton | beginning and end size, velocity, and color |
| 19:52:26 | captain_proton | plus gravity |
| 19:52:39 | captain_proton | i'll need to figure out textures later |
| 19:53:08 | crs23 | does color animate? |
| 19:53:16 | captain_proton | yep |
| 19:54:11 | crs23 | cool |
| 19:54:25 | crs23 | texture should be easy... just get it from the gstate. |
| 19:54:30 | captain_proton | texture, however, will not animate |
| 19:54:55 | captain_proton | heh |
| 19:55:06 | crs23 | actually, it could if you have texcoords and allow texcoord animation. geometry does that now and GMs use it. |
| 19:55:48 | captain_proton | the thing is i don't know how useful it will be - we probably won't even be texturing them |
| 19:56:36 | crs23 | animation might not be too important, but i think texturing is. non-animated texturing will be almost trivial. |
| 19:57:02 | captain_proton | yes |
| 19:57:41 | captain_proton | the thing i'm thinking about though - each particle will probably be smaller than a pixel - how important is it to texture them? |
| 19:57:46 | crs23 | another way to animate textures that requires zero work on your part is to animate <transform type="texture">. |
| 19:57:59 | captain_proton | true |
| 19:58:10 | crs23 | oh, i think particles will be bigger than a pixel in lots of cases. |
| 19:58:20 | captain_proton | true |
| 19:58:22 | captain_proton | but not much bigger |
| 19:58:43 | captain_proton | gets some coffee |
| 19:59:20 | crs23 | depends. lots of big, textured, blended particles can be good for smoke and fire. who knows what else. |
| 19:59:44 | captain_proton | why textured? a color animation would work fine |
| 20:00:31 | captain_proton | one of the big things i want to use this for is rain and snow |
| 20:00:39 | crs23 | you can use it to antialias or make pretty circles |
| 20:00:52 | crs23 | or make snowflake shaped snowflakes. :-) |
| 20:01:01 | captain_proton | hahaha |
| 20:01:17 | captain_proton | maybe on my graphics card |
| 20:01:19 | captain_proton | maybe |
| 20:01:50 | captain_proton | i even have doubts about that |
| 20:02:24 | crs23 | huh? are you worried about performance? |
| 20:02:32 | captain_proton | yes |
| 20:02:57 | crs23 | it's a textured quad. i get around 5M/sec on my card. |
| 20:03:11 | captain_proton | i'm not using quads for them |
| 20:03:13 | crs23 | oh sure, you've got a zillion. |
| 20:03:24 | captain_proton | i'm using a triangle stripped tetrahedrom |
| 20:03:24 | crs23 | no quads? what then? |
| 20:03:28 | captain_proton | tetrahedron* |
| 20:03:44 | crs23 | why not a billboarded quad? |
| 20:03:53 | captain_proton | i don't know ;) |
| 20:04:02 | captain_proton | actually atm i'm not using anything |
| 20:04:18 | crs23 | the tetrahedron draws up to 75% backface culled triangles! |
| 20:04:25 | captain_proton | the code can be easily changed for any shape |
| 20:04:41 | captain_proton | hell - why not use a billboarded triangle? |
| 20:05:01 | crs23 | quads have a more intuitive texture mapping :-) |
| 20:05:36 | captain_proton | is a quad or a tstrip faster? |
| 20:06:21 | crs23 | should be the same. tstrip is probably better, though. it's probably better optimized. |
| 20:07:29 | captain_proton | whee...i just finished the system update function |
| 20:28:40 | BZFlag | anyone tried xmission.bzflag.org ? |
| 20:29:02 | BZFlag | If it's fw config is ok, I'll run a 1.8 server there. it should be much faster for most people. |
| 20:30:58 | captain_proton | tries to figure out how to add stuff to the rendering queue in the visitor |
| 20:40:01 | captain_proton | bleh |
| 20:40:05 | captain_proton | i'm completely confused now |
| 20:40:35 | crs23 | what's up? |
| 20:41:08 | captain_proton | i understand how the visitor thing works now but i don't know what i'm supposed to do with my geometry data |
| 20:41:10 | captain_proton | =| |
| 20:41:55 | crs23 | well, SceneVisitorRender and SceneVisitorSimpleRender work differently. the latter is easier to add stuff too. |
| 20:42:50 | captain_proton | but i have to implement both at some point right? |
| 20:43:02 | crs23 | yes. i'll tell you what you need for SceneVisitorRender... |
| 20:43:28 | crs23 | the polygons are drawn by the single glDrawElements() call in SceneVisitorRender::draw()... |
| 20:43:51 | captain_proton | bursty ;) |
| 20:43:59 | BZFlag | crs23: should clipping/culling work if the x/y/z is moved? ie: a "follow tank view" ? |
| 20:44:08 | crs23 | you need to create a SceneVisitorRender::Job with the appropriate state... |
| 20:44:53 | crs23 | BZFlag: sure, it's just a different eye point. but the player's own tank isn't added to the scene normally. |
| 20:45:50 | crs23 | captain_proton: jobs are added by the primitive visit() method. you'll add one in the particle visit() method. |
| 20:47:00 | captain_proton | hrm ok |
| 20:47:03 | captain_proton | i have to run to class |
| 20:47:06 | captain_proton | finish this up later... |
| 20:47:08 | crs23 | your Job will need to set the color and vertex SceneNodeVFFloat arrays. |
| 20:47:10 | crs23 | k |
| 20:49:01 | BZFlag | I can see folks wanting a "follow tank" view as well as a "birds eye" view. |
| 20:49:13 | BZFlag | those would both want the tank to show up. |
| 20:49:37 | crs23 | agreed. bird's eye would allow roaming/flying. |
| 20:50:05 | crs23 | will "follow the tank" show that tank's viewpoint or would it float behind/around that tank? |
| 20:50:41 | BZFlag | behind would suffice, but trailing with lagged turns would be even cooler. |
| 20:51:26 | crs23 | yes, but the actual view would be fun too. |
| 20:51:37 | BZFlag | look at what the tank is looking at but follow the tanks previous position by a second or so. |
| 20:51:57 | BZFlag | spectator view following the "leader" would be very cool. |
| 20:52:54 | crs23 | it should be easy to cycle between views when you're an observer or a ghost (i.e. dead and not allowed to re-enter the game) |
| 20:55:05 | BZFlag | agreed |
| 21:29:41 | captain_proton | ack |
| 22:39:16 | captain_proton | bleh |
| 23:54:06 | captain_proton | throws his hands in the air |
| 23:54:51 | vogon_jeltz | hi, Tim |
| 23:55:04 | captain_proton | slaps the code out of vogon_jeltz |
| 23:55:06 | Chestal | catches captain's hands and hands them back to their rightful owner |
| 23:55:16 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: why the hostility? |
| 23:55:23 | captain_proton | this is pissing me off |