| 00:04:28 | captain_proton | hey crs23 |
| 00:04:41 | crs23 | hey. |
| 00:04:48 | crs23 | how's the new cello? |
| 00:04:55 | captain_proton | its beautiful |
| 00:05:00 | captain_proton | it almost plays itself |
| 00:05:20 | crs23 | i doubt that! i can prove it if you let me try. |
| 00:05:25 | captain_proton | heh |
| 00:05:34 | crs23 | musta cost a pretty penny. |
| 00:05:39 | captain_proton | i've wanted one of these since i met the guy who made it |
| 00:05:47 | captain_proton | yeah - good thing my parents paid for it =) |
| 00:05:59 | crs23 | ha! |
| 00:06:24 | captain_proton | it was my graduation gift - because of delays, it ended up being my birthday gift and christmas gift too |
| 00:07:07 | crs23 | i guess handbuilt stuff takes time. when did you graduate? |
| 00:07:28 | captain_proton | last june |
| 00:07:49 | captain_proton | it usually takes him about 3-4 months to build one - mine took about 10 for various reasons |
| 00:08:10 | crs23 | congrats. what're you doing now? |
| 00:08:27 | captain_proton | working on a network specification of a generic board-game program for my software engineering class |
| 00:08:29 | captain_proton | you? |
| 00:09:00 | crs23 | i got laid off in november. i'm taking some time off. |
| 00:09:31 | captain_proton | ahh you were asking what am i doing in general, not this moment specifically? |
| 00:09:40 | captain_proton | in that case - college |
| 00:10:09 | captain_proton | any new code? ;) |
| 00:10:39 | crs23 | i'm hooking the rendering options back up. Chestal complained. :-) |
| 00:10:51 | captain_proton | ahh |
| 00:11:18 | captain_proton | is there a way to define an alpha value for a textured poly in view.bzc? |
| 00:11:30 | captain_proton | thinks the console background should be faded so you can still see |
| 00:12:43 | crs23 | sure. edit console.bzg. change the 4th component of the color to something less than 1 and then add `<blending src="sa" dst="1-sa" />' in the gstate. |
| 00:13:16 | crs23 | by the way i'm removing the `poly' view item in favor of the `model' view item. |
| 00:14:17 | crs23 | you could also add then blending line and use a texture with an alpha channel |
| 00:14:54 | captain_proton | nifty =) |
| 00:15:29 | crs23 | thanks. things are *so* much more configurable now. |
| 00:17:31 | jacques | does bzflag have light sources? or only ambient? |
| 00:17:46 | jacques | I know there are shadows, but those could be fake |
| 00:18:15 | crs23 | it supports lights. the sun is a light source and so is the moon. shadows are projected from the sun only. |
| 00:18:20 | jacques | I mean - with proper material properties, would we see specular highlights etc? |
| 00:18:30 | captain_proton | at night the moon should project shadows |
| 00:18:50 | jacques | so effectively the light sources are infinitely distant |
| 00:18:58 | crs23 | you can have specular but there's currently no way to specify a specular color differently than the diffuse. |
| 00:19:01 | jacques | actually I just remembered that shots are light sources |
| 00:19:27 | jacques | crs23: how are material properties defined? possible to make "metals" etc? |
| 00:19:34 | crs23 | yeah but that's missing from the current 1.8 tree |
| 00:19:46 | captain_proton | we need to make materials super-configurable |
| 00:19:51 | crs23 | there are two options for materials... |
| 00:19:53 | captain_proton | friction coefficients and such |
| 00:19:56 | jacques | yes please! |
| 00:20:09 | captain_proton | wants to steal the tuxracer code and make environment-mapped ice |
| 00:20:09 | jacques | procedural textures :-) |
| 00:20:15 | crs23 | well, let's stick to talking about reflection properties |
| 00:20:21 | jacques | ok :-) |
| 00:20:42 | jacques | wants to tax his geforce2 ultra. |
| 00:20:49 | crs23 | we can add a specular color property but for efficiency it'll have to be constant over an object |
| 00:21:03 | captain_proton | jacques: once i get some of this particle stuff working i think i can give your card a run for its money |
| 00:21:05 | crs23 | or we can multitexture and get much nicer results |
| 00:21:05 | vogon_jeltz | jacques: have you ever thought that maybe not everyone *has* a Ge2 Ultra? |
| 00:21:27 | captain_proton | multitexturing is good |
| 00:22:06 | crs23 | yeah, but i don't have direct support for it yet. only blending more passes right now. |
| 00:22:28 | captain_proton | we ought to make use of opengl extensions a lot more |
| 00:22:31 | captain_proton | eye candy is good =) |
| 00:25:29 | jacques | vogon_jeltz: yes I know that. lots of people have geforce 3's and soon 4's. :-) |
| 00:25:36 | captain_proton | has a 3 |
| 00:25:37 | jacques | vogon_jeltz: but seriously - I know what you are saying |
| 00:26:40 | jacques | as long as the eye candy is either 1) not required to play the game OR 2) configurable and ppl know what they are getting into and can decide whether they want to play on one of those servers, I think it is a good thing |
| 00:26:53 | captain_proton | it should all be handled client-side |
| 00:26:58 | captain_proton | like the current rendering options |
| 00:27:20 | crs23 | i just committed a change that allows some rendering options to be turned off. however, the models don't handle disabled options correctly yet. |
| 00:27:21 | jacques | yeah but I am also thinking of things that would affect play - such as fog that diffuses a laser beam |
| 00:27:41 | jacques | smoke screens |
| 00:27:46 | jacques | mirrors |
| 00:28:05 | jacques | water |
| 00:28:18 | captain_proton | huh? |
| 00:28:23 | captain_proton | that was weird |
| 00:28:44 | jacques | heh |
| 00:29:25 | captain_proton | hi tim |
| 00:29:51 | crs23 | hey tim |
| 00:30:04 | jacques | is it bad that I wanna leave work early to go home and play bzflag? |
| 00:30:17 | iLLf8d | woa |
| 00:30:19 | iLLf8d | thats way different |
| 00:30:20 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 00:30:27 | iLLf8d | was just running 1.8 |
| 00:30:30 | iLLf8d | very nice tho |
| 00:30:42 | BZFlag | what if I want to leave work early to go home and hack on bzflag? |
| 00:31:05 | crs23 | ah, the joys of being unemployed! |
| 00:31:13 | BZFlag | crs23: I started an email reply, but did not finish it at work. |
| 00:31:18 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 00:31:24 | iLLf8d | joys... heh |
| 00:31:30 | crs23 | k. i checked in the warning fixes. |
| 00:31:40 | jacques | BZFlag: that sounds fun too |
| 00:32:17 | BZFlag | ok, I got the email, and then did a cvs up -PdA, but they were not there yet. rebuilding... |
| 00:32:30 | jacques | is 1.8 ready for people like me to try compiling it? |
| 00:33:12 | BZFlag | jacques: try, sure. ;-) |
| 00:33:22 | crs23 | jacques: afaik it will work fine |
| 00:33:25 | jacques | coolness |
| 00:33:45 | crs23 | i boosted the version number so you won't be able to connect to any 1.7 servers though |
| 00:33:59 | crs23 | tim, can you start a 1.8 server? |
| 00:34:04 | captain_proton | he has |
| 00:34:08 | crs23 | doh! |
| 00:34:10 | BZFlag | # and a rear view window ;-) |
| 00:34:10 | BZFlag | <if name="displayRear"> |
| 00:34:10 | BZFlag | <viewport x=75% y=0% w=25% h=25%> |
| 00:34:10 | BZFlag | <scene x=0.0 y=0.0 z=0.0 fov=1.8 theta="300%" phi=0/> |
| 00:34:10 | BZFlag | </viewport> |
| 00:34:11 | BZFlag | </if> |
| 00:34:13 | BZFlag | hehe |
| 00:35:14 | captain_proton | BZFlag: you crazy bastage |
| 00:35:24 | BZFlag | It was fun, what can I say. |
| 00:35:38 | BZFlag | crs23: it would be nice to have a horz mirror though. |
| 00:35:42 | crs23 | see how easy it is! but theta should be `180' |
| 00:35:49 | BZFlag | ie h=-25% ? |
| 00:36:09 | crs23 | hmm, good idea. OpenGL supports horizontal flipping trivially. |
| 00:36:12 | iLLf8d | works here |
| 00:36:19 | iLLf8d | compile I mean (debian sid) |
| 00:36:49 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 00:37:12 | jacques | which tag do I checkout for 1.8 ? HEAD ? |
| 00:37:14 | captain_proton | how would i go about dropping a black box behind the console poly? |
| 00:37:16 | BZFlag | iLLf8d: oh, I thought you meant my rear view mirror. ;-) |
| 00:37:19 | crs23 | maybe fov=-1 |
| 00:37:50 | crs23 | captain_proton: is this console transparent? |
| 00:37:54 | captain_proton | crs23: yes |
| 00:38:04 | BZFlag | crs23: tried that and others with the existing code, but could not get it to work. |
| 00:38:06 | captain_proton | crs23: i want a semi-transparent black box behind it too to make it more readable though |
| 00:38:18 | crs23 | captain_proton: just add another primitive. just a sec. |
| 00:38:41 | crs23 | BZFlag: well, fov=-1 will flip in x and y but may mess up culling. |
| 00:38:58 | BZFlag | <color value=black alpha=0.01/> |
| 00:38:58 | BZFlag | <poly> |
| 00:38:58 | BZFlag | <vertex x=0% y=0%/> |
| 00:38:58 | BZFlag | <vertex x=100% y=0%/> |
| 00:38:58 | BZFlag | <vertex x=100% y=100%/> |
| 00:38:59 | BZFlag | <vertex x=0% y=100%/> |
| 00:39:01 | BZFlag | </poly> |
| 00:39:21 | crs23 | sorry, tim, i just removed the poly view. use models instead. |
| 00:39:30 | captain_proton | crs23: just add another 'geometry' element in the group? |
| 00:39:39 | BZFlag | crs23: yea, I got both x and y flipped, but I just wanted horz. |
| 00:39:44 | BZFlag | ah. |
| 00:40:02 | crs23 | captain_proton: edit console.bzg. duplicate the geometry part and remove the texture from gstate. |
| 00:40:17 | crs23 | captain_proton: you can also remove the texcoords |
| 00:40:46 | crs23 | BZFlag: yeah, we might need to separate x and y fov. |
| 00:40:57 | captain_proton | crs23: yeah i did that already =) |
| 00:41:14 | captain_proton | crs23: is there a blending function to do a 'multiply' instead of additive? |
| 00:41:26 | crs23 | okay. make the non-textures one is first. |
| 00:41:44 | crs23 | yes. use src="dc". |
| 00:41:58 | vogon_jeltz | is away: afk |
| 00:43:00 | captain_proton | this is so weird |
| 00:43:06 | captain_proton | hacking at bzflag without recompiling |
| 00:43:08 | captain_proton | its fun |
| 00:43:15 | jacques | compilation ongoing |
| 00:43:31 | crs23 | have you tried `set displayView free-fuse-stereo' in the console yet? |
| 00:43:44 | captain_proton | no |
| 00:43:55 | crs23 | try it and then cross your eyes |
| 00:44:07 | captain_proton | just throw that string at the beginning of the file? |
| 00:44:20 | BZFlag | msg window should scroll when full as well as on timeout. |
| 00:44:21 | captain_proton | oh whoops |
| 00:44:22 | captain_proton | nevermind |
| 00:44:32 | crs23 | you can do it from the console. |
| 00:44:37 | BZFlag | I was playing crosseyed today. ;-) |
| 00:44:47 | BZFlag | do it? |
| 00:44:54 | crs23 | i thought the msg window did scroll when full |
| 00:45:08 | BZFlag | not in yesterday's code. |
| 00:45:18 | BZFlag | I set the timeout to 60 and then it coulc get full. |
| 00:45:27 | crs23 | hmm, i'll try it |
| 00:46:16 | captain_proton | thats trippy =) |
| 00:46:20 | BZFlag | SW is very small. |
| 00:46:38 | BZFlag | looks right on radar, but very small on screen. |
| 00:47:16 | crs23 | captain_proton: `set displayView normal' to go back |
| 00:47:22 | captain_proton | crs23: yes i know |
| 00:47:23 | BZFlag | crs23: you saw my stencil interlaced request? |
| 00:47:34 | crs23 | yes |
| 00:47:41 | jacques | compilation done |
| 00:47:52 | BZFlag | should happen for scene, but not radar, msg, etc. |
| 00:48:12 | BZFlag | crs23: k, protocol thoughts... |
| 00:48:35 | crs23 | tim, scroll seems to work for me |
| 00:48:46 | BZFlag | I was thinking of how likely it might be to build an integer based client for handhelds. |
| 00:48:51 | captain_proton | crs23: how would one go about drawing 1-pixel lines? |
| 00:49:16 | crs23 | draw points? |
| 00:49:21 | captain_proton | don't suppose there's a line primitive? |
| 00:49:36 | BZFlag | I thought we might rescale the world to mm or something such that sizes, etc can be longs. |
| 00:49:44 | crs23 | yes: lines, lstrip, lloop for independt lines, a line strip, and a line loop. |
| 00:50:00 | crs23 | handhelds don't have floats? |
| 00:51:27 | captain_proton | what are the parameters for lloop? |
| 00:51:35 | crs23 | i'm cool with using integers in the protocol. |
| 00:51:57 | captain_proton | just do <vertex .../> ? |
| 00:52:22 | crs23 | all primitives use the same arguments. an lloop draws a line from vertex to vertex then closes the loop by drawing from the last index to the first. |
| 00:52:33 | captain_proton | ok =) |
| 00:52:42 | BZFlag | strongarm like ipaq/zaurus etc are floatless. |
| 00:53:22 | BZFlag | I was thinking more globally in the engine. avoid floats till the gl/graphics layer where feasible. |
| 00:53:22 | crs23 | whoa! that's just... sucky. |
| 00:53:42 | BZFlag | yes I agree. |
| 00:54:10 | captain_proton | At line 53, column 18: ignoring invalid tag: lloop |
| 00:54:13 | crs23 | what about using an object in place of float? we can typedef to float on modern hardware :-) |
| 00:54:21 | BZFlag | but likely to remain for a while, though transmeta/amd is rumored to be building a transmeta based strongarm microcore with float. |
| 00:54:35 | crs23 | the object would use operator overloading to look just like a float. |
| 00:54:47 | BZFlag | crs23: sounds fine, but we still need to be concerned with bounds. |
| 00:54:55 | crs23 | of course, embedded constants would have to be wrapped in a macro. |
| 00:55:11 | captain_proton | any clue what to do? |
| 00:55:22 | BZFlag | I'd be happy with a typedef to tell the truth. |
| 00:55:26 | crs23 | yeah, bounds are an issue but will probably only be a problem in a couple places |
| 00:55:53 | BZFlag | if we scale to mm or something then int values should be fine. |
| 00:55:54 | captain_proton | crs23: <lloop> doesn't seem to be a valid tag? |
| 00:56:29 | crs23 | captain_proton: the lloop belongs in the primitive as the type. |
| 00:56:46 | BZFlag | bz 1.7 get's like 6 fps on an ipaq at 256x192 with everything off. |
| 00:56:58 | BZFlag | doom gets like 35fps even with networking. |
| 00:57:22 | crs23 | captain_proton: vertex, color, texcoord, normal stay as before. in fact you don't touch the geometry node. |
| 00:57:51 | crs23 | yeah, but doom uses a custom software renderer with pretty trivial texture mapping |
| 00:58:14 | captain_proton | i'm not doing this in a geometry node - doing it in the view |
| 00:58:27 | BZFlag | yes, but a similar engine could be built that would plug in where gl does for bz. |
| 00:58:45 | crs23 | doh! you'll need to use a model view and make a bzg file |
| 00:59:06 | crs23 | but wouldn't that just be OpenGL? |
| 00:59:14 | BZFlag | OpenGLGState.cxx:97: warning: `class OpenGLGStateRep' only defines a private destructor and has no friends |
| 00:59:30 | crs23 | i hate that warning. it's a bug in the compiler, period. |
| 00:59:31 | BZFlag | yeah, opengl with an integer engine. |
| 00:59:42 | BZFlag | ok |
| 01:00:05 | crs23 | an integer OpenGL. *shudder* |
| 01:00:23 | crs23 | but perfectly feasable. |
| 01:01:40 | jacques | ipaq and tuxscreen bzflag would be possible |
| 01:02:55 | jacques | so the bzflag engine is a thin layer over opengl ? |
| 01:02:56 | BZFlag | jacques: xactly. ;-) |
| 01:03:51 | BZFlag | picture some large cell phone company with bzflag in the phone. ;-) |
| 01:04:22 | BZFlag | no more "snakes" and "dice" here. ;-) |
| 01:04:44 | crs23 | huh? |
| 01:05:09 | BZFlag | the current lame games on cell phones. |
| 01:05:22 | crs23 | oh! i don't own one myself. |
| 01:05:54 | BZFlag | there are quite a few next generation phones that will have 180x128 or larger lcds in them. many are arm powered. |
| 01:06:11 | BZFlag | someone needs to write real internet based games for them ;-) |
| 01:06:36 | crs23 | you go, tim! |
| 01:07:36 | jacques | i love how many arm devices are comin gout soon |
| 01:07:43 | captain_proton | wow i did something wrong |
| 01:07:48 | captain_proton | my box crashed =/ |
| 01:07:59 | jacques | and at least three major manufacturers have announced Xscale PDAs |
| 01:08:09 | jacques | and palm is switching to ARM |
| 01:08:15 | jacques | life is good |
| 01:08:41 | crs23 | captain_proton: uh oh. there isn't a whole lot of checking done in the scene graph. maybe you had an index for a vertex that doesn't exist? |
| 01:09:11 | captain_proton | crs23: that shouldn't have crashed my entire machine |
| 01:09:19 | jacques | can I make the message type any larger in 1.8 ? |
| 01:09:30 | jacques | I am running at 1280x1024 and it's illegible |
| 01:09:44 | crs23 | it could because the graphics driver may have attempted to access unmapped memory while running in kernel mode |
| 01:10:14 | BZFlag | crs23: heh. Lineo (where I work) has a few deals coming. This may in fact happen. ;-) |
| 01:10:15 | captain_proton | here's one thing that needs to happen: |
| 01:10:28 | captain_proton | when -anything- doesn't parse correctly, it should quit |
| 01:10:50 | crs23 | jacques: yes, edit data/view.bzc. find the line with '<message' and two lines up change 7p to say 14p. |
| 01:11:12 | jacques | crs23: THANKS |
| 01:11:32 | crs23 | captain_proton: well, it should check bounds during parsing at least. |
| 01:11:32 | BZFlag | Xscale is fpuless as well. |
| 01:12:17 | jacques | hmg |
| 01:12:23 | jacques | which are the ones with FPU? |
| 01:12:55 | BZFlag | jacques: 1600x1200 works here. ;-) |
| 01:13:19 | captain_proton | this is getting frustrating |
| 01:13:31 | BZFlag | sh4/sh5 ? |
| 01:13:38 | captain_proton | do i have to create a model file for my stupid border around the radar? |
| 01:13:51 | jacques | BZFlag: can you read the message text? |
| 01:13:53 | BZFlag | jacques: or the older arm7 cores have an external fpu option. |
| 01:14:16 | BZFlag | crs23: that was the only warning. trying to run now. |
| 01:14:28 | BZFlag | segfault. |
| 01:14:49 | crs23 | captain_proton: ah, i finally understand what you're doing! stop fooling with the poly view and update your code. i checked in a radar model about an hour ago. |
| 01:15:10 | BZFlag | 0x83bffff2 in ?? () |
| 01:15:10 | BZFlag | (gdb) backtrace |
| 01:15:10 | BZFlag | #0 0x83bffff2 in ?? () |
| 01:15:10 | BZFlag | Cannot access memory at address 0x34000000 |
| 01:15:14 | captain_proton | hehehe |
| 01:15:16 | captain_proton | okees =) |
| 01:15:18 | BZFlag | not terribly useful. |
| 01:15:19 | jacques | aah, that's much better |
| 01:15:26 | jacques | crs23: 14p is just right |
| 01:15:29 | BZFlag | anyone build with DEBUG on lately? |
| 01:15:35 | crs23 | nope. not much of a backtrace. |
| 01:15:45 | crs23 | i've got a debug build but it works fine. |
| 01:16:09 | jacques | BZFlag: I with my monitor would do 1600x1200 - but it's only 17" :-\ |
| 01:16:36 | captain_proton | ahh! this is so much nicer |
| 01:17:36 | crs23 | yeah, that poly thing was a stupid hack until i had the model view hooked up. |
| 01:18:36 | crs23 | BZFlag: yes. there's no function at 0x83bffff2 in my build. |
| 01:19:52 | captain_proton | lets see how this works =) |
| 01:21:38 | captain_proton | missing ViewItemPoly.h |
| 01:22:02 | captain_proton | just a bad makefile? |
| 01:23:15 | crs23 | remove the Makedepend file. |
| 01:23:27 | captain_proton | i just did a make clean |
| 01:24:21 | crs23 | do you have revision 1.3 of src/view/Makefile? |
| 01:24:36 | captain_proton | i just did a cvs up -PdA so probably |
| 01:25:17 | crs23 | well, nothing should be depending on that file anymore and that file should be gone. |
| 01:25:20 | BZFlag | hmm...ddd does not seem to help me either. |
| 01:26:11 | BZFlag | captain_proton: do a cvs up -PdA again. ;-) |
| 01:26:27 | crs23 | BZFlag: did you clobber and rebuild? |
| 01:28:11 | BZFlag | yep. everything with make DEBUG=1 except that one source. |
| 01:28:55 | captain_proton | BZFlag: what did you just do? |
| 01:29:46 | iLLf8d | some of the compiler messages crack me up (class whatever only defines a destructor and has no friends) |
| 01:29:48 | iLLf8d | =P |
| 01:30:02 | captain_proton | heh |
| 01:30:15 | captain_proton | hmmm |
| 01:30:28 | crs23 | yeah, that is a stupid warning. |
| 01:30:31 | captain_proton | is there a way to define a gradient across something? |
| 01:30:37 | BZFlag | captain_proton: just tracking down why DEBUG=1 breaks things for me. |
| 01:31:06 | captain_proton | BZFlag: i don't want to break my client right now - i'm hacking at the HUD |
| 01:31:18 | iLLf8d | notes the new version takes alot longer to compile then the old one did |
| 01:31:26 | captain_proton | iLLf8d: there's a lot more to compile |
| 01:31:29 | crs23 | captain_proton: yes, use different colors per vertex and add `<shading model="smooth" /> to the gstate. |
| 01:31:33 | iLLf8d | or maybe it just seems like it cause i'm all anxious |
| 01:31:46 | BZFlag | iLLf8d: ask crs about repetitive includes. ;-) jk |
| 01:32:00 | iLLf8d | he's just being sure |
| 01:32:02 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 01:32:04 | crs23 | ppppttttth! |
| 01:32:07 | BZFlag | heh |
| 01:33:30 | captain_proton | is going to make the console background look like the title image at http://bzflag.org/new/ |
| 01:35:29 | BZFlag | recompiling everything in src/bzflag (after a bunch of other things) fixed the seg fault. |
| 01:35:39 | BZFlag | recompiling without DEBUG=1 that is. |
| 01:36:00 | jacques | console? |
| 01:36:12 | jacques | I kinda like that 1.8 doesn't have the bottom message window |
| 01:36:14 | captain_proton | jacques: start 1.8, then press your '~' key |
| 01:36:18 | jacques | ah |
| 01:36:43 | crs23 | try `help' in the console |
| 01:37:22 | BZFlag | bbiab |
| 01:37:24 | jacques | arg, my console font is too tiny to read |
| 01:37:42 | jacques | is the console only supposed to come up when connected to a server? |
| 01:38:06 | crs23 | same fix as before for the font size. console comes up on demand only. |
| 01:38:35 | crs23 | change 7p to 14p above the line with `<message buffer="console" |
| 01:38:47 | jacques | crs23: I mean I was pushing ~ and it would not come up until I connected to a server |
| 01:39:07 | crs23 | if the menus are displayed they eat the ~. first dismiss the menus. |
| 01:39:48 | jacques | aaah, thanks |
| 01:40:48 | jacques | now if only it wasnt white text on gray :-) |
| 01:40:54 | captain_proton | jacques: i'm workin' on it |
| 01:40:58 | jacques | captain_proton: :-D |
| 01:41:32 | captain_proton | has fallen in love with the views definitions |
| 01:42:31 | iLLf8d | uhm someone whose been here the last like 2-3 hours can you sendme a chanlog? |
| 01:42:55 | iLLf8d | had to make a run to the postoffice and worries he missed some good material |
| 01:43:13 | captain_proton | hey crs23 - to define a color for each vertex, it goes like this right: <color>...</color><vertex>...</vertex><color>...</color><ver... |
| 01:43:43 | BZFlag | iLLf8d: http://ipaq.secret.org.uk/~timr/ |
| 01:43:47 | iLL_BZFlag | cool |
| 01:43:51 | crs23 | no, you put all the colors together in one <color> group then all the vertices in a <vertex> group. if you have more than one color or vertex group you can do animation. |
| 01:44:06 | captain_proton | ahh |
| 01:44:25 | iLL_BZFlag | didn't know that was there thanks BZFlag |
| 01:44:27 | crs23 | remember that colors are 4 floats: RGBA. |
| 01:44:50 | captain_proton | yeah i know |
| 01:45:40 | jacques | how do you define animation timing |
| 01:45:43 | jacques | ? |
| 01:46:52 | crs23 | see DEVINFO, line 425. |
| 01:47:06 | jacques | thanks |
| 01:47:42 | crs23 | use "time" as the source parameter. also see data/clouds.bzg for an example. it animates to make the clouds drift. |
| 01:47:48 | iLL_BZFlag | hmm |
| 01:48:10 | iLL_BZFlag | apathy is on the server no pause bubble and I can't killem who knows |
| 01:48:15 | captain_proton | blech |
| 01:48:33 | captain_proton | so src=sa dst=1-sa is add - what is subtract? |
| 01:48:35 | jacques | wow I didnt notice that the clouds drift |
| 01:48:35 | captain_proton | dst=sa? |
| 01:48:40 | crs23 | hmm, did i add black caps? i can't remember. |
| 01:49:46 | crs23 | there is no way to subtract. what are you trying to do? |
| 01:50:51 | captain_proton | i want to get the same effect as the title bar in http://bzflag.org/new/ |
| 01:51:15 | jacques | I keep wanting to drive to the mountains |
| 01:52:00 | BZFlag | it's either World.o or SceneBuilder.o |
| 01:52:29 | crs23 | captain_proton: okay. you might need two views for that. just a sec |
| 01:52:37 | captain_proton | i'll just mess with alpha values for a bit |
| 01:53:52 | crs23 | you probably want a model that just draws the wood-like background. then use another model to draw the BZFLAG logo, which will have to be a texture map with alpha and using the sa,1-sa blending mode. |
| 01:54:27 | captain_proton | i'm not doing the logo yet |
| 01:54:36 | captain_proton | just trying to get the gradient looking good |
| 01:55:10 | crs23 | okay. what does the texture look like? is it just greyscale or does it have color? |
| 01:56:01 | captain_proton | the texture is going to be greyscale |
| 01:56:08 | BZFlag | ok, so I compile World.cxx with debug and crash, without debug I'm fine. |
| 01:56:13 | captain_proton | right now i'm using the same 'bmetal' texture already used |
| 01:56:35 | captain_proton | i'm gonna gimp up a better tileable brushed metal texture once i get it looking good |
| 01:56:39 | crs23 | okay. so use colors that fade from red to grey from left to right, one color per vertex. |
| 01:57:16 | crs23 | the texture will modulate the color. |
| 01:57:25 | jacques | s it possible to do bz hardware accel in a window? |
| 01:58:03 | crs23 | yes. if you use `bzflag -geometry 640x480' you'll get bzflag in a window 640x480 pixels. |
| 01:58:18 | jacques | oooh |
| 01:58:42 | jacques | cool |
| 01:58:45 | iLL_BZFlag | decks nice =) |
| 01:58:51 | jacques | it grabs my cursor tho |
| 01:59:00 | iLL_BZFlag | I run off the window and my brightness screws |
| 01:59:05 | crs23 | use `set displayCursorGrab 0' to turn that off |
| 01:59:06 | iLL_BZFlag | there a full screen for the new bz? |
| 01:59:39 | jacques | crs23: where do I put that command? |
| 01:59:40 | crs23 | oops, make that `set displayGrabCursor 0' |
| 01:59:45 | crs23 | type it in the console |
| 01:59:55 | crs23 | the game console, that is. press ~ |
| 01:59:55 | jacques | hmm, now twice I have gotten "error downloading world database" |
| 02:00:02 | MrApathyCream | me too |
| 02:00:22 | crs23 | iLL_BZFlag: use `-geometry fullscreen' on the command line |
| 02:00:35 | iLL_BZFlag | cool |
| 02:00:41 | iLL_BZFlag | ty |
| 02:00:57 | jacques | iLL_BZFlag: heh I thought there was only fullscreen in hardware accel until a few minutes ago |
| 02:01:54 | iLL_BZFlag | I can't get over how different the view is |
| 02:01:59 | BZFlag | jacques: I just restarted one:5050 |
| 02:02:16 | iLL_BZFlag | similar but its like the perspective has changed |
| 02:02:26 | jacques | i just connected :-) |
| 02:02:35 | BZFlag | iLL_BZFlag: it has, taller, and narrowed |
| 02:02:36 | iLL_BZFlag | jacques which field? |
| 02:02:37 | BZFlag | iLL_BZFlag: it has, taller, and narrower |
| 02:02:46 | iLL_BZFlag | I like it |
| 02:02:49 | iLL_BZFlag | much more realistic |
| 02:02:53 | jacques | the lack of the message window is a plus I think |
| 02:03:11 | iLL_BZFlag | you connect to caps decks or the other one? |
| 02:03:23 | iLL_BZFlag | ooo |
| 02:03:32 | iLL_BZFlag | I wonder if I can run client server w/out issue |
| 02:03:35 | iLL_BZFlag | hmm |
| 02:04:04 | iLL_BZFlag | could never get the old version to work on the same machine (probably cause of his netgear crap router) |
| 02:07:40 | captain_proton | someone ought to write up a reference on the xml for all the bzc and bzg files |
| 02:10:48 | jacques | yeah really :-) |
| 02:11:16 | crs23 | yeah, yeah. you want the code or the documentation first? :-) |
| 02:11:39 | jacques | is there any way to minimize the fullscreen client while it's running? |
| 02:11:43 | jacques | crs23: code :-) |
| 02:11:44 | MrApathyCream | oops crashed |
| 02:12:22 | crs23 | jacques: are you on win32 or linux? in win32 use alt-tab. in linux... no. |
| 02:12:43 | captain_proton | there ought to be |
| 02:12:53 | crs23 | agreed |
| 02:13:46 | jacques | crs23: linux all the way |
| 02:14:01 | jacques | hmm, I paused and when I unpaused I cant pickup any flags |
| 02:14:08 | captain_proton | does the SGI format support an alpha channel? |
| 02:15:34 | crs23 | yes, it does |
| 02:15:44 | crs23 | jacques: that's weird |
| 02:15:54 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 02:16:05 | captain_proton | how would one go about doing a 'difference' blending mode? |
| 02:17:07 | jacques | i am unable to pickup any flags now, even after getting killed a few times |
| 02:17:19 | crs23 | i'm not sure why you'd need it for what you're doing but OpenGL does have a difference blending extension. |
| 02:17:22 | BZFlag | back... |
| 02:17:35 | captain_proton | crs23: thats the blending mode i used to combine the layers in that logo |
| 02:18:33 | crs23 | what part of that logo uses subtraction? |
| 02:18:43 | jacques | I didconnected and now I'm getting rejected by server |
| 02:19:05 | captain_proton | crs23: i have one layer that has the brushed metal texture in greyscale |
| 02:19:17 | captain_proton | then on top of that i have another layer with a gradient from a teal color to black |
| 02:19:22 | crs23 | jacques: you probably couldn't grab flags because the server has to confirm the grab and it seems the server is having problems |
| 02:19:25 | jacques | players: 65536/4 |
| 02:19:26 | BZFlag | servers restarted |
| 02:19:26 | captain_proton | they're blended using a difference mode |
| 02:19:31 | jacques | that's a lot of players |
| 02:19:48 | MrApathyCream | all less than 400ms lag too! :) |
| 02:19:52 | captain_proton | lol MrApathyCream |
| 02:20:10 | BZFlag | crs23: I'd recommend we go to png. |
| 02:20:32 | crs23 | ah, okay. you can get the same by multiplying by the inverse of teal to black: red to white. use src=dc,dst=0 |
| 02:20:45 | MrApathyCream | what ever happened with the openal movement |
| 02:21:15 | MrApathyCream | bayer got side-tracked with mcguyver, i guess |
| 02:21:15 | crs23 | BZFlag: i was thinking BMP but PNG sounds better. |
| 02:21:32 | MrApathyCream | PNG tools aplenty? |
| 02:21:35 | BZFlag | yeah, I mention it cause I saw the bmp comment. ;-) |
| 02:21:47 | jacques | chants PNG PNG. |
| 02:21:48 | MrApathyCream | that's my only worry... |
| 02:22:04 | BZFlag | MrApathyCream: there are plenty of converters around. |
| 02:22:13 | crs23 | there are more PNG tools than SGI format tools |
| 02:22:15 | BZFlag | course gimp does it and that's all that matters. ;-) |
| 02:22:21 | MrApathyCream | sgi only supported by gimp on windoze, afaik, ... hope isn't the same with png |
| 02:22:41 | crs23 | i've got SGI support in gimp on linux |
| 02:22:56 | BZFlag | jpg/gif would also be vendor neutral, but no alpha there. |
| 02:23:12 | BZFlag | crs23: he means no other windows than gimp. |
| 02:23:18 | MrApathyCream | yes |
| 02:23:49 | crs23 | and gif has that stupid patent issue |
| 02:24:09 | BZFlag | MrApathyCream: look around and see. I'm likely to do some png code, so if there aren't any tools, that would not be such a hot choice. ;-) |
| 02:24:19 | MrApathyCream | ok, will do. |
| 02:24:22 | crs23 | also texture mapping jpegs isn't a great idea. the lossy parts can become much more visible. |
| 02:24:32 | BZFlag | crs23: as perhaps does tiff and tga (well, compressed) |
| 02:24:43 | BZFlag | agreed. |
| 02:25:31 | crs23 | tiff is *way* too heavy unless you strictly limit the supported options. |
| 02:25:55 | MrApathyCream | wooowooo PaintShop Pro has PNG, thumbs up from me then |
| 02:26:56 | captain_proton | its getting closer =) |
| 02:27:08 | captain_proton | chants PNG too |
| 02:28:19 | MrApathyCream | Is the screen display staying this new way, or is just not complete? <no scrolling messages, etc> |
| 02:29:17 | captain_proton | which direction are triangle strips wound? |
| 02:29:29 | crs23 | messages are available in the console. or you can edit views.bzc. |
| 02:29:48 | crs23 | captain_proton: CCW for the first triangle, CW for the second, then alternating |
| 02:30:13 | crs23 | MrApathyCream: but scrolling using the arrow keys must be added back in |
| 02:30:49 | captain_proton | hrm...triangle stripping hurts my head =| |
| 02:31:12 | jacques | no shockwave graphic? |
| 02:31:24 | captain_proton | the 2nd triangle starts from the 3rd vertex of the first and ends on the 2nd vertex of the first? |
| 02:31:38 | MrApathyCream | no tank explosions threw me for a loop... makes it challenging! :) |
| 02:31:45 | MrApathyCream | wanders off |
| 02:32:03 | captain_proton | bah - i'll look it up |
| 02:32:16 | crs23 | triangles are: 0 1 2 (CCW), 1 2 3 (CW), 2 3 4 (CCW), 3 4 5 (CW), etc |
| 02:32:39 | captain_proton | ahh l |
| 02:32:40 | captain_proton | k |
| 02:35:22 | captain_proton | grrr...this is gonna be hard |
| 02:35:38 | captain_proton | i have a rectangle i want to draw with vertices in the middle of each side |
| 02:35:47 | captain_proton | perhaps a tstrip isn't the way to go? |
| 02:35:54 | captain_proton | what other primitives are available? |
| 02:36:46 | crs23 | i'm not sure what you're asking for but would a triangle fan work. one vertex in the center and the rest along the perimeter? |
| 02:36:56 | captain_proton | ahh yes =) |
| 02:36:58 | captain_proton | tfan? |
| 02:37:04 | crs23 | okay, that's type="tfan" |
| 02:37:10 | jacques | i think server is horked again |
| 02:37:25 | jacques | iLL_BZFlag: drove off the map and I cant pickup flags again |
| 02:39:32 | BZFlag | jacques: I'm not too worried about net play at present, I'm workign on rewriting it anyway. |
| 02:40:42 | BZFlag | SW graphic is smaller than the tanks. |
| 02:41:51 | BZFlag | I restarted the server again. |
| 02:41:58 | jacques | ah so that's what happened :-) |
| 02:42:15 | jacques | what about the hit and shockwave graphics? |
| 02:42:20 | jacques | I'm not seeing those |
| 02:44:09 | captain_proton | you can have multiple viewports in one thing right? |
| 02:45:39 | crs23 | what does 'thing' mean? generally, yes, you can have multiple viewports wherever you can have one. |
| 02:46:23 | captain_proton | in a view |
| 02:46:25 | captain_proton | ok |
| 02:46:34 | captain_proton | and a - value means negative from the other side right? |
| 02:46:57 | crs23 | right. no negatives on width or height though. |
| 02:47:05 | crs23 | okay. gotta go. happy hacking. |
| 02:47:31 | jacques | ok 2 things |
| 02:47:37 | crs23 | quickly |
| 02:47:54 | jacques | 1) forget what I was saying about not being able to pickup flags - apparently I was getting spawned ontop of my team flag |
| 02:48:06 | crs23 | :-) |
| 02:48:19 | jacques | 2) the problem with the shockwave graphic is that it's too small |
| 02:48:20 | vogon_jeltz | is back (gone 02:06:23) |
| 02:48:31 | captain_proton | hi vogon_jeltz |
| 02:48:31 | jacques | this an be verified by driving backwards and firing shockwave |
| 02:48:38 | jacques | it's tiny |
| 02:48:56 | crs23 | i made a note of that. looks like the scale factor is missing or something. it'll be an easy fix. |
| 02:49:04 | jacques | crs23: sorry I was speaking generally - I didn't mean to kep you |
| 02:49:08 | jacques | keep you |
| 02:49:24 | crs23 | k. bye! |
| 02:49:29 | jacques | crlater |
| 02:51:39 | jacques | also, I cant get a framerate to display in 1.8 - it's 't' right? |
| 02:52:28 | BZFlag | no. |
| 02:52:41 | BZFlag | ` then set displayFPS 1 |
| 02:53:54 | jacques | thanks |
| 02:56:32 | captain_proton | hrm - my image is drawing somewhere strange |
| 03:03:50 | captain_proton | now its just angled odd |
| 03:04:36 | captain_proton | why is the image angled?! |
| 03:05:43 | captain_proton | checks his texture coords |
| 03:06:51 | captain_proton | feels like an idiot |
| 03:08:57 | captain_proton | gorgeous |
| 03:09:29 | captain_proton | hacking at bzflag from this end is a lot easier now =) |
| 04:33:55 | crs23 | captain_proton: you still around? |
| 04:34:09 | vogon_jeltz | <captain_proton> no |
| 04:34:22 | crs23 | k. thanks. |
| 04:37:36 | captain_proton | argg |
| 04:37:39 | captain_proton | vogon_jeltz: you bastard |
| 04:37:51 | vogon_jeltz | dude, I didn't mean to |
| 04:38:01 | captain_proton | haha right |
| 04:38:41 | vogon_jeltz | makes a note to take the extra CDs out of the media he sends to cappy |
| 04:39:28 | captain_proton | do you want them or not? ;) |
| 04:39:44 | vogon_jeltz | I don't really care, but I seriously didn't mean to drive crs23 away |
| 04:39:48 | vogon_jeltz | I was going to type: |
| 04:39:58 | vogon_jeltz | * captain_proton edges along the wall to avoid detection |
| 04:40:19 | vogon_jeltz | but didn't get a chance to |
| 04:40:31 | captain_proton | ha |
| 04:41:20 | captain_proton | SW is seriously fux0red |
| 04:43:04 | captain_proton | tiny tiny |
| 04:43:23 | captain_proton | my console hack is purdy though |
| 04:50:03 | captain_proton | hi MrApathyCream |
| 04:50:10 | MrApathyCream | hey |
| 04:50:36 | MrApathyCream | hey... how come bzflag turned into A? |
| 04:50:46 | captain_proton | turned into A? |
| 04:50:58 | MrApathyCream | my cvs directory is now A |
| 04:51:03 | MrApathyCream | not bzflag |
| 04:51:19 | captain_proton | i have no clue |
| 04:51:22 | captain_proton | you cvsed wrong? |
| 04:51:56 | MrApathyCream | cvs up -PdA |
| 04:52:03 | MrApathyCream | as per BZFlag |
| 04:52:23 | MrApathyCream | (Tim) |
| 04:52:27 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 04:53:17 | captain_proton | i just did a cvs up -PdA - no problems here |
| 04:54:10 | MrApathyCream | maybe a windoze cvs thing |
| 04:54:15 | captain_proton | perhaps |
| 04:54:55 | captain_proton | 1.8 is going to rock our world |
| 04:57:21 | MrApathyCream | how so? |
| 04:57:36 | captain_proton | well - take what we've got already - |
| 04:57:40 | captain_proton | (1) its very pretty |
| 04:57:45 | captain_proton | (2) its supah-configurable |
| 04:57:55 | captain_proton | (3) see 1 & 2 |
| 04:58:07 | captain_proton | imagine what we'll be able to do once we really get working |
| 04:58:13 | MrApathyCream | will it be faster? |
| 04:58:18 | captain_proton | hopefully |
| 04:58:28 | captain_proton | the new rendering engine is just as fast as the old one |
| 04:58:32 | MrApathyCream | that's all I really care about |
| 04:58:36 | captain_proton | maybe we can even get occlusion culling working |
| 05:09:54 | MrApathyCream | whats the plan for development from here? |
| 05:11:15 | captain_proton | not sure |
| 06:10:35 | captain_proton | wb tim |
| 08:35:28 | vogon_jeltz | is away: TV |
| 09:20:36 | MrApathyCream | Charley's Angels? |
| 09:20:57 | MrApathyCream | Adam 12? |
| 09:21:02 | MrApathyCream | Gilligan's Island? |
| 09:21:13 | captain_proton | heh |
| 09:21:59 | MrApathyCream | shame on you cap'n, world format still in bz-language? |
| 09:22:08 | MrApathyCream | :) |
| 09:22:37 | captain_proton | bah |
| 09:23:09 | captain_proton | right now i'm going through and fixing crs' pseudo-xml |
| 09:23:26 | MrApathyCream | heh |
| 09:23:41 | captain_proton | his parser allows for some things that xml doesn't |
| 09:23:50 | captain_proton | thats ok, but the files themselved need to be valid xml |
| 09:24:06 | MrApathyCream | sheesh, you written an xml schema? |
| 09:24:37 | captain_proton | no |
| 09:24:52 | MrApathyCream | dtd? :) |
| 09:24:55 | captain_proton | its just things like the fact that some arguments aren't in quotes and there aren't always spaces with an inline end tag |
| 09:24:57 | captain_proton | nope |
| 09:25:09 | captain_proton | i'll probably go through at some point and document it all |
| 09:25:57 | MrApathyCream | <bah></bah> |
| 09:26:17 | captain_proton | <bah /> |
| 09:26:23 | captain_proton | =) |
| 09:26:28 | MrApathyCream | <bah/> |
| 09:26:45 | MrApathyCream | could specify teleport links with ID and IDREF attributes, :) |
| 09:27:21 | captain_proton | heehee |
| 09:27:27 | captain_proton | <bah/> isn't valid xml |
| 09:27:34 | captain_proton | thats one of the things i'm fixing ;) |
| 09:27:53 | MrApathyCream | it isn't? all the parsers i use don't care |
| 09:28:02 | captain_proton | technically no |
| 09:28:12 | captain_proton | and i want to keep all the data files in perfect xml |
| 09:28:26 | captain_proton | just in case someone writes something using a stricter parser |
| 09:30:40 | MrApathyCream | <!DOCTYPE World [<!ELEMENT World (Obstacles)><!ELEMENT Obstacles (Obstacle*)>...]> |
| 09:30:48 | captain_proton | blech |
| 09:30:49 | MrApathyCream | come on, i just know your itching |
| 09:30:59 | captain_proton | i like the actual xml, not the dtds |
| 09:31:10 | captain_proton | and people who are into XSLT are just sick |
| 09:31:22 | captain_proton | you should try hacking at the interface a bit |
| 09:31:26 | captain_proton | its super-easy |
| 09:31:28 | MrApathyCream | xlst is actually pretty nifty |
| 09:31:52 | Chestal | hi |
| 09:31:54 | MrApathyCream | transform decks into >>>? |
| 09:32:01 | MrApathyCream | nhey Chestal |
| 09:32:12 | MrApathyCream | sheesh, there i go again with those 'n's |
| 09:32:29 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: http://www.chesco.com/~dbrosius/BZFlag/TopTen.html |
| 09:32:33 | captain_proton | ;-) |
| 09:32:35 | Chestal | did I read somethign about being able dto disable texturs in my backlog? :-) |
| 09:32:36 | MrApathyCream | yup |
| 09:32:47 | MrApathyCream | (yup to capn) |
| 09:32:53 | MrApathyCream | Chestal: don't know |
| 09:32:58 | captain_proton | Chestal: what do you mean? |
| 09:32:58 | Chestal | will have to try that as soon as I get to my office |
| 09:33:15 | MrApathyCream | ug.. morning there already... ug |
| 09:33:17 | Chestal | captain_proton: yesterday, most of the rendering options did not work |
| 09:33:18 | captain_proton | Chestal: the xml definitions for everything make interface hacks disgustingly simple |
| 09:33:32 | captain_proton | Chestal: i think crs hooked a bunch of them back up |
| 09:33:40 | Chestal | haven't looked at that in depth yet |
| 09:33:53 | MrApathyCream | pretty funny, when tank 'explodes' it just shoots way up in the air |
| 09:34:14 | Chestal | so e.g. it would be possible to change views.bzc in a way that 1.8 looks very close to 1.7? |
| 09:34:40 | captain_proton | Chestal: i changed the background of the console to be a complex gradient with red, black, and grey, overlaid on the brushed metal texture and with the bzflag logo in the corner |
| 09:34:40 | captain_proton | =) |
| 09:34:48 | captain_proton | Chestal: yes - but one question: why? |
| 09:35:28 | Chestal | captain_proton: well, I just asked to chek whether it's powerful enough, for now I cannot say if I liek the new layout, difficult to tell with 1fps :-) |
| 09:35:35 | captain_proton | Chestal: heh |
| 09:35:48 | captain_proton | the various text thingies need to be moved around a bit |
| 09:36:11 | captain_proton | i need to get this border around the radar working properly |
| 09:36:21 | captain_proton | but once thats done it should be pretty good |
| 09:36:30 | Chestal | we can share different view files, just like their are downloadable skins for some programs |
| 09:36:39 | captain_proton | Chestal: yep |
| 09:36:57 | captain_proton | Chestal: people could even create new tank models and exchange them fairly easily |
| 09:37:11 | captain_proton | the tank models would only be local (for now) |
| 09:37:13 | captain_proton | but still |
| 09:37:52 | Chestal | I guess it shouldn't be very hard to make models part of the server's world? |
| 09:38:14 | captain_proton | well, i've been conjuring up a 'resource' thing |
| 09:38:42 | captain_proton | where the server has various resources available and the client can choose to download them based on the local options |
| 09:38:53 | captain_proton | custom textures, tank models, sounds, etc |
| 09:40:58 | captain_proton | upgrades to a nightly build of mozilla |
| 09:43:35 | MrApathyCream | believes <empy /> is only used for compatibility with browsers not part of XML spec |
| 09:43:59 | MrApathyCream | thinks <empty/> is valid xml |
| 09:44:51 | MrApathyCream | <sleeps/> |
| 09:51:08 | BZFlag | I need some protocol reviewers... I'm commiting protocol.txt to 1.8 |
| 09:52:38 | captain_proton | BZFlag: i'll take a look right before i go to bed |
| 09:52:40 | captain_proton | is it in cvs? |
| 09:53:24 | BZFlag | in a sec... |
| 09:53:47 | BZFlag | now |
| 09:55:26 | captain_proton | the world get should be structured differently |
| 09:56:14 | captain_proton | it should not do this: |
| 09:56:15 | BZFlag | the world description has been removed |
| 09:56:22 | captain_proton | Client sends MsgGetWorld requests until it has read the entire world database. |
| 09:56:33 | BZFlag | why not? |
| 09:56:46 | captain_proton | because its a horribly inefficient way to do it |
| 09:56:52 | BZFlag | the world database may refer to other models. |
| 09:57:02 | captain_proton | i guess you can call it that |
| 09:57:05 | BZFlag | so that's just the initial world description. |
| 09:57:14 | captain_proton | its misleading though |
| 09:57:17 | BZFlag | gravity, game type etc. |
| 09:57:30 | BZFlag | and probably a reference to one model. |
| 09:57:32 | captain_proton | you should say that entire objects (world, models, etc) are sent at once per resource request |
| 09:57:33 | Chestal | 16 byte values - now, that is large :-) |
| 09:57:45 | BZFlag | byte? oops. |
| 09:58:09 | Chestal | right at the beginning |
| 09:58:33 | Chestal | hmm, ints instead of floats. why that? |
| 09:58:37 | captain_proton | we'll never need to worry about overflows anymore |
| 09:58:55 | captain_proton | timmy wants to run it on his ARM |
| 09:59:24 | Chestal | so well have to convert flaoting point to fixed point numbers and back |
| 09:59:41 | BZFlag | question is what tag should refer to a model? a string? |
| 09:59:54 | Chestal | or will we be using fixed point arithmetic outside of the protocol? |
| 10:00:07 | BZFlag | and when does the client get an md5 (or similar) to know to rerequest one? |
| 10:00:20 | BZFlag | perhaps model names _are_ the md5? |
| 10:00:43 | captain_proton | thats what i think |
| 10:00:56 | captain_proton | use the md5 as the resource ID, and use it as the filename in the cache |
| 10:00:59 | BZFlag | Chestal: we _may_ use it out side the protocol. ie: I might do all fixed point on the server. or in a bot. |
| 10:01:17 | Chestal | hmm, I'v quite skeptical about this |
| 10:01:49 | BZFlag | so when you get the "world description" is includes rules, and one md5 tag for the world database? |
| 10:01:53 | Chestal | floating point arithmetic is evil, but fixed point is even more evil :-) |
| 10:02:07 | BZFlag | no fixed point. just ints. |
| 10:02:24 | BZFlag | well, in the proocol. |
| 10:02:29 | BZFlag | er protocol. |
| 10:02:48 | Chestal | well, currenttly bzflag uses metric units |
| 10:02:50 | BZFlag | sizes will be millimeters or some such. |
| 10:02:53 | captain_proton | i'm wondering if its practical to switch over to all integer arithmetic just to support a few embedded processors |
| 10:03:22 | BZFlag | the first rev will likely just convert em all to floats anyway. |
| 10:03:32 | BZFlag | but bots might not. |
| 10:03:34 | Chestal | I woudl even opt to use doubles internally, only thng preventing this probably is GL using floats |
| 10:03:49 | captain_proton | ieee 768 provides a high enough precision |
| 10:04:14 | captain_proton | doubles just use up more space and processor cycles |
| 10:04:21 | Chestal | that's not right |
| 10:04:24 | Chestal | doubles won't be slower |
| 10:04:30 | Chestal | in fact the might be faster |
| 10:04:54 | captain_proton | how so? the processor has to do one or two instructions more if its a double |
| 10:04:57 | captain_proton | ie add adc |
| 10:04:58 | Chestal | many claculations will be done in double or higher precision internally anyway |
| 10:05:10 | Chestal | for exampel there is no sin(float) AFAIK |
| 10:05:18 | Chestal | so the poor compierl has to add conversions everywhere |
| 10:05:26 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 10:05:44 | Chestal | I don't think any modern processor with FPU unit is slwoer with doubles than with floats |
| 10:05:50 | Chestal | they take up more space, that's true |
| 10:06:09 | Chestal | so I don't say put dobule precision in the protocol |
| 10:06:22 | captain_proton | maybe - my experience is with older x86's |
| 10:06:40 | Chestal | those must be quite old :-) |
| 10:06:53 | Chestal | x86 are using 80 bits of precision anyway AFAIK |
| 10:06:55 | captain_proton | my applied asm class uses 8086 |
| 10:07:01 | captain_proton | 80 bits? |
| 10:07:05 | Chestal | yep |
| 10:07:14 | captain_proton | oh you mean for the fraction field in a double? |
| 10:07:26 | captain_proton | wait that doesn't work either |
| 10:07:33 | captain_proton | you only have 64 bits total in a double |
| 10:07:37 | Chestal | no, 80 bits floating point arithmetic |
| 10:08:14 | BZFlag | ok, can we get past the u32 choice and look at the rest of the protocol? ;-) |
| 10:08:32 | captain_proton | BZFlag: in general it looks good |
| 10:08:39 | captain_proton | we'll need to come up with xml defs for everything |
| 10:08:50 | captain_proton | the MsgGetWorld should be replaced with a MsgGetResource |
| 10:09:19 | Chestal | playerid=1 byte, so 256 plaers max, but that shoudl suffice I guess |
| 10:10:19 | captain_proton | whos gonna want to be in a game that big anyway? ;) |
| 10:12:14 | captain_proton | world definitions should allow for world linking |
| 10:12:32 | captain_proton | create multiple 'arenas' and link between them with teleporters |
| 10:12:42 | BZFlag | model is a good term? or can you think of a better one? |
| 10:12:44 | captain_proton | i can imagine buildings where the inside is much bigger than the outside =) |
| 10:12:49 | captain_proton | model is a good term |
| 10:13:02 | BZFlag | ah, resource. good. |
| 10:13:28 | Chestal | ah, big arenas, that reminds me. Is the static worldsize already gone in 1.8? |
| 10:14:02 | captain_proton | no |
| 10:14:06 | BZFlag | I'm pondering 0=server 255=everyone 254=rogue 253... other teams 1- players. |
| 10:14:28 | Chestal | hmm, MsgAlive, does this mean server is responsible for finding respawn position now? |
| 10:14:34 | BZFlag | yes. |
| 10:14:44 | Chestal | hmm |
| 10:14:55 | Chestal | so server needs to keep track of tanks' positions at all times? |
| 10:15:06 | BZFlag | aproximate position yes. |
| 10:15:31 | BZFlag | I'll likely just track the last reported position and see if that's close enough. |
| 10:15:38 | Chestal | the current respawn code in the clien talso tries to take shots into account, i.e. it tries to not place a tank right before a shot |
| 10:16:07 | Chestal | that might put some stress on the server |
| 10:16:21 | Chestal | it will have to check against all buildings, too |
| 10:16:25 | BZFlag | I hear ya. I think enough can be done with other tank reported heading/position. |
| 10:16:41 | BZFlag | yes. it's picking flag start position anyway. |
| 10:17:20 | Chestal | hmm, ok, we can try it |
| 10:17:35 | Chestal | processing shouldn't take longer than a few milliseconds at max |
| 10:17:35 | BZFlag | I made a few cheat protections like that. |
| 10:17:56 | Chestal | otherweise messages might get delayed too much |
| 10:17:56 | BZFlag | right now I think you can send playerupdates for other players for example. ;-) |
| 10:18:37 | captain_proton | heh |
| 10:19:02 | BZFlag | agreed on processing time. I will keep running server on my cobalt cube on slow dsl line as a reference. |
| 10:19:19 | BZFlag | I hope to be able to make that hardware/line a viable server. |
| 10:19:40 | captain_proton | BZFlag: you crazy bastage =) |
| 10:19:47 | Chestal | you dropped coordinates for MsgDropFlag, too. I.e. client shudl send PlayerUpdate right before DropFlag? |
| 10:19:55 | BZFlag | hey, somebody has to do it. ;-) |
| 10:20:07 | BZFlag | Chestal: yes. |
| 10:20:21 | Chestal | ok, this at least solves the CTF flag bugs |
| 10:20:32 | Chestal | just yesterday I tried to work aroudn the problem for 1.7 |
| 10:22:13 | captain_proton | is only going to use v1_7 to play from now on |
| 10:22:28 | captain_proton | and i may even stop that once we have people routinely playing on the new code |
| 10:23:34 | Chestal | hmm, has MsgTeleport always been there? Never saw it before, but then, I didn't look that close |
| 10:24:00 | BZFlag | ok, say we have a world resource "world". it uses resource "mountians" |
| 10:24:24 | BZFlag | world will not contain the md5 for mountians. |
| 10:24:33 | BZFlag | but the md5 is what we refer to it as. |
| 10:24:41 | BZFlag | well, when requesting. |
| 10:24:44 | captain_proton | true |
| 10:25:03 | captain_proton | perhaps we should have user-defined ID's ('world', 'mountains', 'tank1', etc) |
| 10:25:09 | BZFlag | so there needs to be a getResourceMD5 msg yes? |
| 10:25:14 | captain_proton | and a translation request |
| 10:25:15 | captain_proton | yeah |
| 10:26:10 | BZFlag | requesting by md5 gives us a fixed length id, so the packets are easier to process, but it also makes them a bit larger. (well likely) |
| 10:26:18 | captain_proton | md5 should be 32 chars |
| 10:26:20 | Chestal | bzflag: you included player id in client messages beginshot and playerupdate. What's the reasoning behind this? to allow for direct player<->player communication? |
| 10:26:39 | captain_proton | i didn't think we had direct player<->player comm anymore? |
| 10:26:58 | Chestal | capt: not for now, but we might choose to have it later on, who knows |
| 10:27:09 | captain_proton | true... |
| 10:27:13 | BZFlag | md5 in binary is actually only, hmmm... 16 bytes yes? |
| 10:27:30 | BZFlag | captain_proton: we don't. what did I miss? |
| 10:27:31 | captain_proton | BZFlag: sounds about right |
| 10:27:36 | Chestal | having identical c->s and s->c messages makes forwardign easier of course |
| 10:27:40 | captain_proton | i suggest we do it ascii-armored though |
| 10:27:49 | captain_proton | for 2 reasons |
| 10:27:52 | captain_proton | (1) debugging |
| 10:27:59 | BZFlag | which part ascii armorred? |
| 10:28:01 | captain_proton | (2) we're going to use the md5 as the filename |
| 10:28:05 | captain_proton | BZFlag: the md5 |
| 10:28:33 | BZFlag | eh, no point. printf %x will get the ascii back. |
| 10:28:39 | captain_proton | true... |
| 10:28:56 | BZFlag | file offsets etc will all be binary anyway. |
| 10:29:11 | captain_proton | md5 is 64 bits |
| 10:29:52 | BZFlag | Chestal: I'm actually thinking of doing same formats for every thing, and just ignoring the other bytes at the server end. |
| 10:30:02 | BZFlag | less mem copys on the server. |
| 10:30:35 | captain_proton | whats the verdict on opengl extensions? |
| 10:30:41 | captain_proton | please say yes =) |
| 10:30:42 | BZFlag | I don't expect the c->s will be a bottleneck on the client end, but on the server end it might have an impact. |
| 10:30:49 | BZFlag | thinks..... |
| 10:31:07 | BZFlag | nope. server should always get less in than it sends out. |
| 10:31:25 | BZFlag | yeah, I think making the packets the same is probably a Good Thing. |
| 10:32:10 | BZFlag | captain_proton: anything that's optional is fine. either at compile time or run time. |
| 10:32:36 | captain_proton | runtime of course =) |
| 10:32:56 | captain_proton | if(has_opengl_extension(EXT_BLAH)) { ... } |
| 10:34:41 | BZFlag | I'm game, but the GL side is crs's baby at present. ask him |
| 10:34:58 | captain_proton | l |
| 10:34:59 | captain_proton | k |
| 10:35:08 | captain_proton | in any case i'm doing particle systems |
| 10:35:19 | captain_proton | wants weather and dynamic explosions |
| 10:35:24 | captain_proton | also wants to go to sleep |
| 10:35:28 | captain_proton | <goodnight /> |
| 10:36:46 | Chestal | BZFlag: I would like to add a ping message for measuring lag |
| 10:38:00 | Chestal | BZFlag: or do you think this shoul dbe handled in the network layer? |
| 10:38:41 | Chestal | well, I'll be on my way to the office, later |
| 10:47:57 | BZFlag | Chestal: the "transport layer" will have ping/pong and throtting stuff. I have not added those bits yet. |
| 10:48:48 | BZFlag | if someone replaces the transport (ie tcp etc) the layer will have to provide lag info. |
| 14:24:00 | Chestal | Cream: you might want to have a look at the current doc/protocol.txt |
| 14:33:35 | MrApathyCream | yes, i'm just looking now |
| 14:39:34 | Chestal | hmm, rendering options now work, kindof |
| 14:39:41 | Chestal | consoel is broken with textures off |
| 14:40:04 | Chestal | and you can't actualyl see very much |
| 14:40:19 | Chestal | I wonder if the old code does somethign special if you switch textures off |
| 14:50:43 | MrApathyCream | dunno |
| 14:51:02 | MrApathyCream | there seems like theres tons of work still to do |
| 14:51:10 | Chestal | guess I'll have to bug crs until it finally runs smooth :-) |
| 14:51:15 | MrApathyCream | heh |
| 14:51:49 | Chestal | getting it to work with software renderign migh tnot be top priority, but it is for me. Otherweise I cannot really test 1.8 |
| 14:52:27 | MrApathyCream | heads off to the coal mines |
| 17:53:04 | vogon_jeltz | is back (gone 09:17:37) |
| 17:58:56 | Chestal | grmpfl, I need better lag / connection quality stats |
| 17:59:03 | Chestal | several laggers on ducati |
| 17:59:19 | Chestal | if I had proper statistics I would autoban peopel with more than 300ms round-trip |
| 17:59:23 | Chestal | maybe even 200ms |
| 18:18:56 | iLLf8d | plays gltron a bit |
| 18:19:12 | iLLf8d | evil_chestal |
| 18:19:22 | iLLf8d | you'd also never have anyone playing there heh |
| 18:22:15 | Chestal | it's very bad right now |
| 18:22:18 | Chestal | no fun |
| 18:22:33 | Chestal | nit's sheer luck if when you hit another tank |
| 18:22:42 | Chestal | with 300ms bzflag is not playable |
| 18:22:56 | Chestal | I wonder why those peopel have so much lag, acn't be all dialup users |
| 18:23:22 | jacques | Chestal: are you talking about ping times or lagstat numbers? |
| 18:23:22 | Chestal | I hope this gets better with 1.8, curernt lagkick isn't that useful |
| 18:23:38 | Chestal | well, only thing I can see is lagstat numbers |
| 18:24:11 | Chestal | when we have realiable lag statistics with 1.8 I will that the threshhold very low on my servers |
| 18:24:21 | jacques | i was showing up as 89ms to a server on my local machine |
| 18:24:28 | Chestal | first test should be on joining, who doesn't pass 200ms test cannot join |
| 18:24:47 | Chestal | 89ms is much, what framerate do you get? |
| 18:24:49 | jacques | other ppl coning in through my dsl were showing anywhere from 0ms to 500s |
| 18:25:00 | jacques | i was getting consistent 140fps |
| 18:25:10 | Chestal | hmm, 89ms to local server is bad |
| 18:25:25 | jacques | this is 1.7e4 |
| 18:25:30 | Chestal | maybe X takes away too many cycles from the server and the schedulign sucks |
| 18:25:39 | jacques | maybe |
| 18:25:52 | Chestal | people with high frame rates and palyign in a lan get <10ms |
| 18:26:12 | jacques | i should try a server on one of my other machines on my lan |
| 18:26:16 | Chestal | hwoever, at 100ms it starts to get noticeable |
| 18:26:32 | Chestal | 200ms is annoying, and at 300ms it gets real bad |
| 18:26:42 | iLLf8d | I think some of mine comes from my router |
| 18:26:51 | iLLf8d | but mines not that bad usually under 200ms |
| 18:27:00 | jacques | i was getting my ass kicked by ppl with 300+ms lagstats |
| 18:27:31 | Chestal | I ahve lagkick enabled at 400ms on ducati |
| 18:27:37 | Chestal | but current lagstats are not that reliable |
| 18:27:42 | Chestal | and 400ms is way too much IMHO |
| 18:28:22 | jacques | last night i started a server on my local machine to practice |
| 18:28:29 | iLLf8d | cool |
| 18:28:33 | jacques | i was extremely surprised when ppl started signing on |
| 18:28:36 | iLLf8d | did you kick your ass? |
| 18:28:55 | jacques | the server was only up about 5 minutes before about 5 ppl signed in |
| 18:29:01 | jacques | and all kicked my ass |
| 18:29:02 | Chestal | jacques: so you made it public? |
| 18:29:11 | Chestal | is your DSL symmetric? |
| 18:29:18 | jacques | Chestal: I dont know - I just did the start server menu option |
| 18:29:28 | Chestal | jacques: hmm, shoudln't be public then, that's strange |
| 18:29:32 | jacques | no - my dsl is 384/128 |
| 18:29:45 | jacques | like i said - i was very surprised |
| 18:29:59 | Chestal | with 128kbit/s upstream your server won't be able to handle more than 4 or 5 players reliably,at least with the current version |
| 18:30:00 | jacques | i was sitting there practicing shots and i blew up |
| 18:30:31 | jacques | Chestal: 4-5 remote players was what it did for hours after that |
| 18:30:31 | Chestal | depending on the mode of operation, DSL has bad latency, too |
| 18:30:48 | jacques | really? |
| 18:30:59 | jacques | my upstream ping is 20ms |
| 18:31:05 | jacques | which i consider pretty good |
| 18:31:12 | Chestal | I have ADSL here in Germany, which is operated in interleave mde |
| 18:31:17 | Chestal | I get 50ms to first hop |
| 18:31:23 | Chestal | 20ms is ok |
| 18:31:28 | jacques | ugh - that's worse than when I had isdn |
| 18:31:37 | Chestal | then your provider obviously does use direct mode or whatever it is called |
| 18:31:47 | Chestal | ISDN latency is better than interleaved DSL latency |
| 18:31:51 | jacques | well they are unreliable |
| 18:31:56 | jacques | they kep kicking me off |
| 18:32:12 | jacques | and when I reconnect sometimes I cant get any packets through |
| 18:32:45 | jacques | sometimes my connection is up for 2 weeks and sometimes for 2 hours |
| 18:33:17 | Chestal | my provder kicks after 24 hours |
| 18:33:28 | Chestal | but my machine isn't running 24 hours anyway |
| 18:33:44 | jacques | actually i was really surprised because I have a firewall doing NAT on my connection |
| 18:33:56 | jacques | how did ppl connect through that? |
| 18:34:19 | Chestal | are you 100% positive that you were connected to your local server? |
| 18:34:39 | jacques | no |
| 18:35:12 | iLLf8d | http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/texturizer/howto.htm#modellers |
| 18:35:14 | iLLf8d | hey uhm |
| 18:35:25 | iLLf8d | looks like they use glut and some xml looking deally too |
| 18:35:39 | Chestal | people shouldn't be able to connect through your NAT, client tries to do a normal TCP connection on port 5155 (or whatever port you specified) |
| 18:35:55 | jacques | Chestal: ok, next time I will make sure |
| 18:36:14 | jacques | iLLf8d: yeah I would play vegastrike but it has no MP mode at all |
| 18:37:07 | iLLf8d | MP? |
| 18:37:11 | iLLf8d | oh mulitplayer |
| 18:37:12 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 18:37:22 | iLLf8d | I dunno just kicking the tires |
| 18:37:39 | iLLf8d | huh? |
| 18:37:39 | jacques | military police |
| 18:37:50 | iLLf8d | chestal my server works via nat just not for me =P |
| 18:37:51 | jacques | jk |
| 18:38:06 | iLLf8d | everyone else can play one another if they shoot me it bootsem |
| 18:38:09 | iLLf8d | some kinda bug |
| 18:38:42 | Chestal | ill: ehm, it can only work via NAT when you added an explicit rule |
| 18:38:46 | jacques | heh |
| 18:39:17 | iLLf8d | uhm dunno I got a netgear router and it works |
| 18:39:24 | iLLf8d | unless I missed the question |
| 18:39:37 | Chestal | well, I don't know how your NAT is configured |
| 18:39:47 | jacques | i have a linksys |
| 18:39:51 | Chestal | if it's configurd to route every incomign padket to your machine it will work of course |
| 18:39:56 | Chestal | but then you wouldn't need NAT :-) |
| 18:40:04 | iLLf8d | yeah I had a default route set to my serverbox |
| 18:41:00 | jacques | not me |
| 18:41:01 | iLLf8d | jacques: how do you like yoru linksys? |
| 18:41:34 | jacques | once i upgraded firmware it's been great |
| 18:42:51 | iLLf8d | cool |
| 18:43:03 | iLLf8d | I've been happy with mine accept with bzflag |
| 18:43:11 | iLLf8d | seems I can't run client and server on the same machine |
| 18:43:11 | jacques | it's the cable/dsl firewall + 8port switch model |
| 18:43:15 | iLLf8d | some kinda bug issues |
| 18:43:31 | iLLf8d | dunno if its the netgear firmware or bzflag or them interacting with one another |
| 18:46:38 | jacques | MP games are always problems for NAT firewalls |
| 18:46:55 | jacques | most of the firmware updated I have seen are to fix MP game hosting problems |
| 18:47:37 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 18:59:10 | | I haven't seen 'crs32', BZFlag |
| 18:59:10 | BZFlag | ibot: seen crs32 |
| 18:59:18 | | crs23 was last seen on #bzflag 14 hours, 24 minutes and 56 seconds ago, saying: k. thanks. [Fri Mar 1 04:34:22 2002] |
| 18:59:18 | BZFlag | ibot: seen crs23 |
| 18:59:21 | BZFlag | heh |
| 19:05:13 | jacques | hi BZFlagz |
| 19:05:18 | jacques | hi BZFlag |
| 19:07:17 | captain_proton | looks around |
| 19:07:23 | captain_proton | here i come, to save the day! |
| 19:08:52 | jacques | hi captain_proton |
| 19:09:10 | captain_proton | hi jacques |
| 19:09:57 | jacques | how about a map with moving mirrors, prisms, and lenses, with only fog generators and lasers? |
| 19:09:59 | jacques | :-D |
| 19:10:50 | captain_proton | blech |
| 19:11:24 | jacques | thught you would like that |
| 19:11:28 | jacques | :-) |
| 19:12:16 | jacques | captain_proton: what weather are you thinking about? |
| 19:12:41 | BZFlag | ok, so if DropFlag has a reason ie: killed, timoed out, captured, etc |
| 19:12:52 | BZFlag | then CapturedFlag is not required, yes? |
| 19:15:20 | captain_proton | jacques: rain, snow, ominous clouds, maybe lightning |
| 19:16:55 | captain_proton | BZFlag: erm... |
| 19:17:21 | captain_proton | BZFlag: would "Dropped because taken into base" really make sense? |
| 19:17:28 | jacques | captain_proton: how about damaging lightning for ppl wh ohang out in high places? :-D |
| 19:17:44 | captain_proton | jacques: perhaps if damage existed |
| 19:18:21 | jacques | captain_proton: d'oh I keep forgetting that |
| 19:18:34 | jacques | why not add damage while we're at it and make it optional |
| 19:18:49 | jacques | old-style one-shot-kill and new-style damage |
| 19:19:38 | captain_proton | pulls a BZFlag: patches welcome ;-) |
| 19:19:48 | jacques | optional per-server of course - not per-player :-D |
| 19:20:21 | jacques | someone said damage would slow the pace of the game - but on highly populated servers that would be a good thing |
| 19:20:29 | jacques | there is too much random death on those |
| 19:20:39 | jacques | spawn-die spawn-die |
| 19:20:52 | jacques | ppl spawning right behind you - die |
| 19:22:45 | jacques | and once someone half-decent gets the GM and jumps onto a building - fegetaboutit |
| 19:24:09 | jacques | mmm, splash-samage |
| 19:24:15 | jacques | splash-Damage |
| 19:24:44 | captain_proton | shrapnel? |
| 19:24:59 | BZFlag | captain_proton: if the flag is your own team then captured should suffice, no? |
| 19:25:16 | iLLf8d | I still think the best features would be bombed out tanks left on field, body parts screems and blood |
| 19:25:20 | captain_proton | BZFlag: i'm confused now - start again? |
| 19:25:21 | iLLf8d | would make it a top not game |
| 19:25:21 | jacques | splash-damage is based on distance to a detonation or explosion |
| 19:25:52 | BZFlag | MsgFlagDrop now has a reason field that includes Captured as one of the reasons. |
| 19:26:03 | jacques | hence the tactic of firing explosive projectiles at the ground under a jumping player |
| 19:26:24 | jacques | and I think there should be some damage from being right in the explosion of another tank |
| 19:26:29 | BZFlag | bring up the damage on the mailing list. lets talk about it. |
| 19:26:38 | BZFlag | I think about it from a protocol perspective. |
| 19:26:46 | jacques | has it been discussed a million times before? |
| 19:27:10 | jacques | true - damage makes subtle cheating much harder to detect by other players |
| 19:27:12 | BZFlag | It should be fairly easy to code, and a "3 hits to kill" or similar fairly easy to understand. |
| 19:27:24 | BZFlag | yes, but not in the 1.8 dev cycle. |
| 19:27:37 | BZFlag | since I'm changing the protocol a lot, now would be the time to do it. |
| 19:27:37 | jacques | what not in 1.8 ? |
| 19:27:52 | captain_proton | BZFlag: i don't think thats an intuitive way to do it though - your dropping a flag causes people do die? thats confusing. them dying because you sent out a message saying you captured it? that makes sense |
| 19:28:01 | BZFlag | not discussed now that 1.8 is in progress. |
| 19:28:12 | jacques | yes I really think it should be in the protocol |
| 19:28:21 | jacques | ah I understand |
| 19:28:31 | jacques | damage can add depth to the game |
| 19:28:46 | BZFlag | captain_proton: the msg is irelevant. as long as the client and server know what it means, the user will get the correct experience. |
| 19:28:54 | captain_proton | BZFlag: true... |
| 19:29:03 | captain_proton | BZFlag: if you do it make sure its well documented though |
| 19:29:20 | BZFlag | agreed. |
| 19:30:31 | BZFlag | is also thinking of making msg type a u8 |
| 19:30:48 | captain_proton | doxygens the new tree |
| 19:31:49 | jacques | BZFlag: are there other things you would like to see discussed on the ML now that you are redesigning the protocol? |
| 19:32:56 | BZFlag | jacques: not that I can think of. I pretty sure about most changes, there will be testing/performance conversations once I get some implementation done. |
| 19:33:48 | jacques | BZFlag: are the changes you are sure about and considering listed anywhere? |
| 19:34:01 | captain_proton | BZFlag: is there going to be some game type update msg? |
| 19:34:04 | captain_proton | err |
| 19:34:09 | captain_proton | game style/state/etc? |
| 19:36:12 | BZFlag | jacques: all the things I'm thinking about but not sure of are in protocol.txt as FIXME |
| 19:36:59 | BZFlag | http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/bzflag/bzflag/doc/protocol.txt?rev=HEAD&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup |
| 19:37:11 | jacques | BZFlag: cool thanks |
| 19:37:31 | captain_proton | BZFlag: i'm thinking i'd like a way for the server to update the weather |
| 19:37:35 | captain_proton | =} |
| 19:38:40 | BZFlag | captain_proton: get me a proposal as to what that means. |
| 19:38:54 | captain_proton | BZFlag: a u8 every once in a while |
| 19:39:01 | captain_proton | probably a bitmap of current 'conditions' |
| 19:39:18 | BZFlag | which means what to the client? |
| 19:39:35 | BZFlag | perhaps the server should have a way to add or remove resources on the fly? |
| 19:39:50 | captain_proton | BZFlag: the client would update its local version of that, and start transitioning to the new state |
| 19:40:01 | BZFlag | that's all we need, randomly hopping buildings. ;-) |
| 19:40:02 | captain_proton | i'm going to implement the weather drawing & transitioning stuff |
| 19:40:07 | captain_proton | hoo! |
| 19:40:11 | captain_proton | that would be cool |
| 19:40:29 | BZFlag | though moving platforms would be nice. elevators etc. |
| 19:41:05 | captain_proton | we can use something similar to crs' .bzg files for animation in an element |
| 19:41:11 | captain_proton | resource* |
| 19:41:23 | BZFlag | I'll ponder more the implications for clients that are joining midstream. |
| 19:41:42 | BZFlag | I believe that is his intention. |
| 19:42:17 | BZFlag | lets look at a generic implementation that handles stars/clouds/moving buildings etc. |
| 19:42:41 | BZFlag | I'm not sure that clouds are actually the same for multiple clients. moving building would need to be, |
| 19:43:03 | BZFlag | start that on the list as well. ;-) |
| 19:43:19 | captain_proton | well, we don't need to define clouds that precisely |
| 19:43:22 | jacques | every building could be a bot |
| 19:43:40 | jacques | every object in the game could be controlled by a separate client |
| 19:43:44 | captain_proton | clouds/rain/snow can be individually computed for each client |
| 19:44:10 | jacques | depends if they are eye candy or affect play - such as affecting visibility |
| 19:44:11 | BZFlag | some engines call everything that moves an actor including bots and players. |
| 19:44:17 | jacques | right |
| 19:44:38 | BZFlag | well, got to get ready to head to work. |
| 19:44:40 | jacques | heh - we might get building destructibility for free |
| 19:44:45 | captain_proton | yeah - i've designed an engine like that =) |
| 19:45:52 | jacques | moving platforms/elevators would rock |
| 19:46:11 | captain_proton | the problem is - weather would affect visibility, but it could not be used on all clients |
| 19:46:12 | jacques | heh if we had damage there could be damage from a high fall |
| 19:46:33 | jacques | captain_proton: yah I keep hitting against the minimum spec thing |
| 19:46:49 | captain_proton | i'm gonna do it anyway |
| 19:46:51 | jacques | captain_proton: and everything cleint-side can be turned off |
| 19:47:03 | captain_proton | people like me will play with it on even if it gives us a slight disadvantage at times |
| 19:47:25 | jacques | i want more candy |
| 19:49:51 | captain_proton | doxygens again trying to get it right |
| 19:51:27 | jacques | what about decals? |
| 19:51:37 | jacques | as in bullet holes and scorch marks? |
| 19:51:54 | captain_proton | i think crs' rendering engine has that capability |
| 19:52:54 | jacques | would be all client-side of course |
| 19:53:08 | captain_proton | yeah |
| 19:55:17 | captain_proton | BZFlag: should i throw this doxygen output on the sf page? |
| 19:56:27 | jacques | well i gotta go to the hosting facility |
| 19:56:30 | jacques | BIAW |
| 20:12:48 | BZFlag | captain_proton: sure. |
| 20:16:57 | captain_proton | http://bzflag.org/doxydocs/ |
| 20:18:38 | captain_proton | especially cool diagrams like this: |
| 20:18:42 | captain_proton | http://bzflag.org/doxydocs/class_ViewItemScissorReader.html |
| 20:20:43 | BZFlag | file list has all the CVS files in it. |
| 20:20:48 | BZFlag | the reset looks cool! |
| 20:20:52 | BZFlag | er rest. |
| 20:21:07 | captain_proton | yeah |
| 20:21:20 | captain_proton | i need to tune my Doxyfile to only do all the source files |
| 20:21:27 | captain_proton | but its still useful for now |
| 20:21:56 | BZFlag | agreed! |
| 20:22:11 | captain_proton | time to link it on the 1.8 wiki page |
| 20:23:00 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 20:23:05 | BZFlag | yep, so google will index it. ;-) |
| 20:23:07 | captain_proton | what -is- a valid WikiName? |
| 20:23:24 | BZFlag | upper-lower*-upper-lower* |
| 20:23:31 | captain_proton | got it =) |
| 20:23:37 | BZFlag | or %anything% ;-) |
| 20:24:18 | captain_proton | i just used mixed caps |
| 20:24:38 | captain_proton | i just throw html in here? |
| 20:25:13 | BZFlag | no, it has to use wiki encoding. |
| 20:25:22 | captain_proton | how would i make a link |
| 20:25:35 | BZFlag | someday I'll setup webdav or somthing that is more like html |
| 20:25:55 | BZFlag | %http://sdfsdfsdf-->text% iirc |
| 20:26:56 | captain_proton | that doesn't seem to work |
| 20:27:19 | BZFlag | just http://example.com/ will get turned into a link. |
| 20:27:26 | captain_proton | ahh ok |
| 20:27:30 | Chestal | is gogn to upgrade woody to sid |
| 20:27:36 | Chestal | I'm a little afraid :-) |
| 20:27:42 | captain_proton | up on the wiki |
| 20:27:48 | BZFlag | cool |
| 20:27:55 | Chestal | what's the best way? adding sid direectories to sources.list, apt-get update, apt-get dist-upgrade? |
| 20:28:05 | BZFlag | yep |
| 20:28:35 | Chestal | is it better to reduce th enumber of active processes? i.e. log out from X etc? |
| 20:29:22 | BZFlag | I would do a apt-get update;apt-get -d dist-upgrade and then shut things down an do the apt-get dist-upgrade. |
| 20:29:48 | Chestal | good idea |
| 20:30:14 | Chestal | uh, it wants to install emacs |
| 20:30:25 | Chestal | 84MB to go |
| 20:30:53 | BZFlag | you can apt-get remove --purge anything you don't use first. ;-) |
| 20:31:21 | captain_proton | one of my friends was using emacs as his shell just for shits and giggles |
| 20:32:20 | Chestal | hmm, I wonder if I should go to the cinema, hmm |
| 20:34:00 | Chestal | bzflag: reducing message size is a good idea, but I think it only pays if we do changes which affect the bulk messages, namely PlayerUpdate |
| 20:34:11 | Chestal | >90% of all messages anyway |
| 20:35:04 | Chestal | e.g. we culd put z pos and velocity at the end and make them optional, so we could safe those bytes for tanks on the ground |
| 20:37:57 | BZFlag | hmm.. I like that. |
| 20:39:18 | Chestal | hmm, no cinema today, but tomorrow is the plan now |
| 20:56:59 | iLLf8d | I just saw you mention buildings moving before |
| 20:57:08 | iLLf8d | what about destroying buldings all or parts.... |
| 20:57:16 | iLLf8d | or running through them like a real tank |
| 20:57:37 | captain_proton | if we do the resources right it'll all be simple |
| 21:03:18 | iLLf8d | hey cap how tough do you think it'll be to get the latest code running on freebsd? ie a 1.8 server etc.... |
| 21:03:49 | iLLf8d | also whats the scoop gonna be from a firewall aspect |
| 21:03:57 | captain_proton | it should be the same as 1.7 right now |
| 21:04:02 | iLLf8d | I gotta reload a 3 pcs and kinda need to know what to put where |
| 21:04:10 | captain_proton | so far 1.8 is just 1.7 + new rendering/config stuff |
| 21:04:16 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 21:04:52 | iLLf8d | has anyone posted info on where the networking code is going ... ie multiport or whatever... I assume the new code is gonna be more firewall friendly |
| 21:05:02 | captain_proton | 1 port, UDP only |
| 21:05:28 | captain_proton | no multicast |
| 21:05:40 | iLLf8d | and can I assume it'll be recompilable and runnable on freebsd? |
| 21:05:48 | iLLf8d | I mean maybe with a few modifications |
| 21:05:49 | captain_proton | should be =) |
| 21:07:46 | captain_proton | hey crs23 |
| 21:07:51 | crs23 | hi. |
| 21:07:58 | captain_proton | how goes? |
| 21:08:00 | crs23 | i thought of something last night. |
| 21:08:14 | captain_proton | whats that? |
| 21:08:38 | crs23 | you should use colors in your background to make the red to white fade, not a blending polygon |
| 21:09:00 | crs23 | hmm, let me try explaining again |
| 21:09:35 | crs23 | use one textured polygon and put colors on it, red on the left, white on the right. no blending. the texture is multiplied by the color. |
| 21:09:51 | captain_proton | thats a good point |
| 21:10:13 | crs23 | how's the console looking? |
| 21:10:19 | captain_proton | right now it looks good |
| 21:10:34 | captain_proton | i put the logo w/ drop shadow in the upper right |
| 21:11:05 | vogon_jeltz | is away: watching Futurama while downloading... be back in a couple hours |
| 21:11:08 | crs23 | nice. does it resize with the window size or stay a fixed size in pixels? |
| 21:11:22 | captain_proton | its a fixed size |
| 21:11:33 | crs23 | cool. how'd you do that? |
| 21:11:56 | captain_proton | i created another model and threw it in a separate viewport on top of the console background |
| 21:12:06 | iLLf8d | you guys talking about a console as in the overlay inteface? |
| 21:12:17 | iLLf8d | I kinda like it plain the way it is |
| 21:12:25 | captain_proton | iLLf8d: a console just like every other FPS console |
| 21:12:55 | iLLf8d | why not follow a mechwarrior style approach |
| 21:12:58 | iLLf8d | less is more =) |
| 21:13:11 | iLLf8d | or make it toggleable |
| 21:13:12 | captain_proton | the actual interface is pretty minimal right now |
| 21:13:12 | crs23 | cool. fyi, there's a parameter to the model view: pixel="yes". it changes the coordinate system from -1 to 1 to be 0,0 to w,h. |
| 21:13:30 | captain_proton | i just created the viewport with a specific size in pixels |
| 21:13:35 | captain_proton | then used 0 and 1 in the model |
| 21:13:49 | crs23 | iLLf8d: you can customize your display layout easily and even switch between them on the fly |
| 21:13:55 | iLLf8d | cool |
| 21:14:01 | captain_proton | likes the new ability to 'skin' bzflag =) |
| 21:14:39 | iLLf8d | crs23: I've had issues with running client and server behind my netgear router (dunno if its the router or the code on the same box, all the same nics etc...) is there any good way to examine things to see whats breaking where? |
| 21:14:51 | iLLf8d | and do you think i'll have issues with the new single udp port setup |
| 21:15:12 | crs23 | is it a problem running both at the same time? |
| 21:15:18 | iLLf8d | they run |
| 21:15:29 | iLLf8d | just when I run 1.4 I think i'm invisible |
| 21:15:38 | captain_proton | 1.4? |
| 21:15:39 | iLLf8d | and when I run 1.5 whenever someone shoots me they signoff |
| 21:15:43 | iLLf8d | sorry |
| 21:15:47 | iLLf8d | 7e4 7e5 |
| 21:15:51 | captain_proton | ahh |
| 21:16:25 | crs23 | i really don't know. but the network code will be rewritten entirely. and if you still have a problem we'll fix it. |
| 21:16:36 | iLLf8d | great =) |
| 21:16:50 | captain_proton | crs23: tim updated protocol.txt in cvs |
| 21:16:50 | iLLf8d | I was considering dedicating one machine just to a bzserver in the dmz |
| 21:16:56 | crs23 | in the meantime, maybe ask BZFlag or Chestal. they might be more helpful. |
| 21:16:56 | iLLf8d | would be nice not to have to do that |
| 21:17:00 | captain_proton | crs23: and i put up a doxygen run on the website |
| 21:17:30 | iLLf8d | you guys are busy don't wanna buggya with stuff like this now =) |
| 21:17:37 | crs23 | i'll have to check out the changes. |
| 21:17:45 | captain_proton | crs23: http://bzflag.org/doxydocs/ |
| 21:17:57 | iLLf8d | if someone will gimme a bit of info on uhm layout or interfaces or whatever |
| 21:18:06 | iLLf8d | i'd love to take a crack at writing up some documentation |
| 21:18:27 | crs23 | captain_proton: cool! |
| 21:18:45 | iLLf8d | I'm not opengl savy but I can read c++ somewhat (I can code too just not very good at it, actually very bad is a better description) |
| 21:19:24 | crs23 | iLLf8d: you're talking about the view, menu, and model file formats? |
| 21:19:32 | iLLf8d | that and code docs too |
| 21:19:40 | iLLf8d | even comments if need be |
| 21:20:07 | iLLf8d | anything you want to throw my direction and gimme a bit of advice on |
| 21:20:30 | iLLf8d | also wanted to remind you of a cool feature |
| 21:20:44 | iLLf8d | tribes2 has it setup so you can send email to players |
| 21:21:06 | iLLf8d | ie email someone from in the game (dunno if its real email or tribes server special email) |
| 21:21:10 | iLLf8d | a friend told me about it |
| 21:21:30 | iLLf8d | often times I'd like to get into contact with a player and have no means too |
| 21:22:09 | crs23 | you might start with documentation for views. look in src/view and src/bzflag/ViewItem*. ViewReader does some parsing and each ViewItem file has parsing for the particular view type. |
| 21:22:11 | iLLf8d | but yes view me menu and file formats definately! |
| 21:22:33 | crs23 | and, of course, you can use view.bzc as an example |
| 21:23:08 | captain_proton | it would be great to get a good set of documents up |
| 21:23:27 | iLLf8d | I think good docs will add to its userbase |
| 21:23:35 | iLLf8d | and hopefully to its coderbase too |
| 21:23:52 | crs23 | i'm not sure about the userbase. couldn't hurt though., |
| 21:24:05 | captain_proton | it'll certainly add to the developer base |
| 21:25:20 | captain_proton | i was shocked at how easy it was to modify the interfaces with the new stuff =) |
| 21:25:34 | crs23 | thank you! |
| 21:26:16 | crs23 | i just checked in changes so that turning of blending, texturing, and lighting work. i'm almost done with that now; just a couple more fixes. Chestal should be happy. |
| 21:26:34 | captain_proton | yeah |
| 21:27:22 | crs23 | can you cut and paste your new console. i'd like to see it. and i definitely encourage experimentation. |
| 21:27:46 | captain_proton | i have class in about 30 minutes |
| 21:28:05 | captain_proton | after that, i'll change it to just color the textured polygon and i'll send over a tarball |
| 21:28:33 | crs23 | how about writing what you've got now here? no prob if you want to wait. |
| 21:29:01 | captain_proton | well - it requires a new .rgb file (for the logo) and the changes are too big to really paste in channel |
| 21:29:13 | crs23 | ok |
| 21:30:04 | Chestal | re (with sid) |
| 21:30:11 | captain_proton | wb Chestal |
| 21:30:15 | crs23 | hey chestal. |
| 21:30:25 | Chestal | ah, hi crs |
| 21:30:43 | Chestal | crs: about your coding guidelines... (no I won't talk about tabs and spaces :-) |
| 21:30:49 | crs23 | get the latest checkin. i hooked up the blending, lighting, and texturing options. |
| 21:31:06 | crs23 | uh oh, what about the guidelines? |
| 21:31:35 | Chestal | crs: I think using leading underscores for parameter names is semi-evil, AFAIK the standard reserves __anythign and _Namestartingwithcapital |
| 21:31:44 | Chestal | I don't think it's a good idea to use leading underscores at all |
| 21:32:06 | captain_proton | yes it is evil |
| 21:32:07 | Chestal | a trailing _ would be ok for example |
| 21:32:11 | crs23 | i didn't know about _Namewithcaptial |
| 21:32:34 | captain_proton | how about we just use the same name as the local variable? |
| 21:32:42 | captain_proton | this->var = var; |
| 21:32:46 | captain_proton | =} |
| 21:32:52 | crs23 | trailing underscore is fine by me. i'll add it to my list to fix existing code. |
| 21:32:55 | Chestal | a guidelien which I started to adopt uses member_ for all member variables |
| 21:33:05 | crs23 | captain_proton: yeah, that works but it's tedious and error prone. |
| 21:33:05 | Chestal | but it woudl also be ok to use it the other way around |
| 21:33:23 | captain_proton | crs23: good point |
| 21:33:31 | crs23 | Chestal: i now use m_ for data members but didn't want to rewrite all the code. |
| 21:33:44 | crs23 | that is, i use m_ for all my other projects. |
| 21:34:05 | crs23 | and m_ is a prefix. e.g. m_foo |
| 21:34:14 | Chestal | grmpf, tetxures still not working with DRI |
| 21:34:38 | Chestal | I don't like m_, probably because this is what M$ uses :-) |
| 21:35:05 | Chestal | I guess I picked up the trailing _ in comp.lang.c++.moderated, a lot of C++ gurus are there |
| 21:35:08 | crs23 | actually, they use d_. d for data. m for member. |
| 21:35:40 | Chestal | I want dri to work again, *waaah*. Maybe I should check for mga.o somewhere |
| 21:35:53 | crs23 | i suppose i could used to a trailing _ but right now it just looks like it's not finished. :-) |
| 21:36:06 | iLLf8d | hmm I'm looking at this stuff will keep trying but to be honest i'm lost, will write up something if I can figure it out otherwise i'll just lurk and watch what you all are doing quietly |
| 21:36:12 | crs23 | ahem, "i could get used to" |
| 21:36:46 | crs23 | iLLf8d: yeah, maybe that's a hard place to start. all the model format parsing is handled in just one file: SceneReader.cxx. |
| 21:37:13 | crs23 | i'm going to get some lunch. see ya later. |
| 21:37:29 | captain_proton | iLLf8d: you might start by hacking at the model files themselves - its really easy to familiarize yourself with the formats |
| 21:37:30 | Chestal | bon appetit |
| 21:38:32 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 21:44:32 | captain_proton | wb tim |
| 21:44:36 | captain_proton | you just missed crs |
| 21:46:30 | iLLf8d | cap uhm model files are where? |
| 21:46:38 | captain_proton | data dir |
| 21:46:42 | captain_proton | *.bzc and *.bzg |
| 21:47:08 | iLLf8d | k |
| 21:50:59 | iLLf8d | hmm those are all new aren't they |
| 21:51:06 | iLLf8d | I've never noticed them before |
| 21:51:08 | Chestal | connecting to Tim's 1.8 server I get an error downlaoding the world database |
| 21:53:10 | iLLf8d | Chestal: I'm getting the same now too |
| 21:53:20 | iLLf8d | worked before tho |
| 21:57:11 | Chestal | support for software renderign is getting better |
| 22:04:35 | BZFlag | bummer. did he have any protocol comments? |
| 22:05:06 | BZFlag | something is flakey, I restarted one and two. |
| 22:05:28 | BZFlag | iLLf8d: yes, they are new. |
| 22:13:53 | iLLf8d | gotta make a run to the store I bbl |
| 22:13:54 | iLLf8d | =) |
| 22:20:07 | Chestal | hmph, failed to upload texture |
| 22:55:09 | captain_proton | hey there again |
| 22:55:18 | crs23 | howdy |
| 22:56:15 | Chestal | anyone usign a Matrox card? |
| 22:56:27 | Chestal | my textures ceased working, dri itself is running fine, though |
| 22:56:49 | crs23 | nope. sorry. |
| 22:57:07 | captain_proton | is an nvidia biotch =) |
| 22:57:34 | Chestal | btw, my friend had a lttle accident. Know any tools which can scan hard disks for partition starts to recreate partition tables? |
| 22:58:13 | crs23 | no, not offhand. ugh, nasty accident. better than a head crash, though! |
| 22:58:23 | captain_proton | partition starts are almost impossible to find |
| 22:58:33 | captain_proton | partition magic might be capable of it but i doubt it |
| 22:59:07 | Chestal | he jsut found somethng called hdmaint |
| 22:59:11 | Chestal | http://cvs.sslug.dk/hdmaint/ |
| 22:59:36 | captain_proton | crs23: how would i make it do a multiply if its just a single textured polygon w/ color? |
| 23:00:10 | crs23 | he shoud `dd if=/dev/hd?? ...' before doing anything else, if he's got enough space for a mirror. just in case. |
| 23:01:01 | crs23 | textures modulate the color of the polygon by default but you explicitly use `<texenv mode="modulate"> |
| 23:01:21 | crs23 | uh, ... you can explicitly ... |
| 23:02:17 | BZFlag | Chestal: hexedit? ;-) |
| 23:02:55 | Chestal | I only used hexedit once to patch my partition table back then when M$ had the dumb idea to introduce a new partition type for extended partitions |
| 23:02:59 | BZFlag | crs23: seen my protocol.txt work? comments? |
| 23:03:10 | Chestal | silly X won't do textures, grrrr |
| 23:03:51 | crs23 | BZFlag: haven't had a chance to look yet |
| 23:03:59 | captain_proton | crs23: you're saying <texenv mode="modulate" /> will make it do multiply? |
| 23:04:16 | Chestal | crs: software rendering is getting better |
| 23:04:17 | BZFlag | crs23: k it's still in progress anyway. |
| 23:04:24 | Chestal | crs: but it still has sme problems |
| 23:04:31 | crs23 | yes, but modulate is also the default so you don't have to explicitly include it. |
| 23:04:41 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 23:04:47 | captain_proton | it looks like its doing an add instead of a multiply |
| 23:05:01 | crs23 | Chestal: what's wrong? i know there's a gap between the sky and ground when the mountains aren't visible |
| 23:05:32 | crs23 | captain_proton: okay, we've got another miscommunication... |
| 23:05:52 | crs23 | the texture will modulate the polygon it's applied to, not to stuff it's drawn on top of. |
| 23:06:01 | captain_proton | crs23: i know |
| 23:06:14 | crs23 | oh. well then it can't be adding. |
| 23:06:28 | captain_proton | crs23: i want the color to be multiplied against the texture - resulting in a darker color for each pixel |
| 23:06:43 | captain_proton | here its adding the red color with the colors in the texture, making it lighter |
| 23:06:49 | Chestal | crs23: well, withotu texturs the console doesn't work right, I cannot test right now, but it looks as if the text would be positioned too high, msotly off-screen |
| 23:06:49 | captain_proton | i think |
| 23:07:05 | crs23 | hmm... |
| 23:07:09 | Chestal | crs23: then with 1.7 I didn't I just had a solid sky withotu textures |
| 23:07:34 | Chestal | crs23: and the buildings had a different colour, which had a higher contrast to the sorroundings |
| 23:07:36 | captain_proton | oh well |
| 23:07:40 | captain_proton | it looks allright i guess |
| 23:07:49 | captain_proton | maybe if i halve the value of the red |
| 23:08:05 | Chestal | is there a way to disable dri withotu rstarting X? Guess I asked tha tbefore |
| 23:08:12 | crs23 | Chestal: the sky doesn't use textures ever (just the clouds do). they're gouraud shaded polygons. |
| 23:08:39 | crs23 | captain_proton: did you leave the blending parameter in the gstate? |
| 23:08:58 | Chestal | crs23: I'm at home currently, my machine should be able to do textures, it's at the office where I have to use software rendering. So I cannot try it now |
| 23:09:17 | Chestal | crs23: I will be content when it loks just as good as in 1.7 and is as fast :-) |
| 23:09:56 | captain_proton | crs23: i just removed it |
| 23:10:02 | captain_proton | crs23: it made no difference |
| 23:10:17 | crs23 | okay, let me type in what i think you want... |
| 23:11:44 | BZFlag | Chestal: does LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT=1 work? |
| 23:12:43 | crs23 | <geometry> |
| 23:12:43 | crs23 | <color>1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1</color> |
| 23:12:43 | crs23 | <texcoord>0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1</texcoord> |
| 23:12:43 | crs23 | <vertex>0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 1 0</vertex> |
| 23:12:43 | crs23 | <gstate> |
| 23:12:43 | crs23 | <texture ...> |
| 23:12:45 | crs23 | <primitive type="tstrip"><index> |
| 23:12:47 | crs23 | 0 1 3 2 |
| 23:12:49 | crs23 | </index></primitive> |
| 23:12:51 | crs23 | </gstate> |
| 23:12:53 | crs23 | </geometry> |
| 23:13:01 | Chestal | bzflagf: semes to work |
| 23:13:11 | crs23 | that'll modulate a texture by a polygon fading from red on the left to white on the right |
| 23:14:30 | BZFlag | Chestal: cool we should add that do the docs someplace. |
| 23:14:33 | captain_proton | crs23: thats pretty much what i've got |
| 23:14:54 | captain_proton | crs23: i can send this to you if you like? |
| 23:14:55 | Chestal | crs23: ok, testign software rendering right now. It looks as if everything is white withotu textures, ecept for the groudn and sky |
| 23:15:01 | Chestal | nbuldings and teleporter boundaries are |
| 23:15:02 | crs23 | okay. to help any further, i think i'd have to see it. |
| 23:15:14 | crs23 | Chestal: turn off lighting |
| 23:15:15 | captain_proton | crs23: can you DCC? |
| 23:15:24 | crs23 | i dunno what that is |
| 23:15:30 | captain_proton | its file transfer over irc |
| 23:15:37 | captain_proton | crs23: what irc client are you using? |
| 23:15:39 | crs23 | i've got gaim |
| 23:15:43 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 23:15:44 | captain_proton | let me try |
| 23:17:05 | captain_proton | did you get a dialog or something? |
| 23:17:14 | crs23 | nope. :-( |
| 23:17:26 | vogon_jeltz | try /dcc get captain_proton |
| 23:19:10 | Chestal | is there a way to see my framerate? |
| 23:19:23 | crs23 | Chestal: `toggle displayFPS' |
| 23:19:40 | captain_proton | i just updated to latest cvs - segfault on join? |
| 23:20:31 | vogon_jeltz | roots around for a floppy that he can scavenge for a BeOS bootdisk |
| 23:21:05 | captain_proton | crs23: hang on a sec - i'll put it on http |
| 23:21:15 | crs23 | captain_proton: k |
| 23:21:31 | captain_proton | http://bhaskara.babylonia.flatirons.org:7999/data.tar.gz |
| 23:23:36 | crs23 | got it. just a sec while i look at it. |
| 23:27:40 | captain_proton | looks like this seggie is happening in SceneNode::unref |
| 23:28:52 | captain_proton | recompiles with DEBUG=1 |
| 23:29:00 | Chestal | hmm, mien is working just fine |
| 23:29:41 | captain_proton | Chestal: how recent is your cvs? |
| 23:31:14 | Chestal | I think it's uptodate |
| 23:33:42 | captain_proton | #7 <signal handler called> |
| 23:33:42 | captain_proton | #8 0x080a6745 in SceneNode::unref (this=0x0) at SceneNode.cxx:28 |
| 23:33:42 | captain_proton | #9 0x08052dbf in SceneManager::read (this=0x8202ed8, stream=0x8233aa4) at SceneManager.cxx:154 |
| 23:36:09 | crs23 | captain_proton: oops, you found a bug. you also have an invalid model file. |
| 23:36:48 | captain_proton | crs23: really? which? (i modified those a bit because i have some other unrelated changes) |
| 23:36:55 | crs23 | the scene reader is failing to read a model and returning NULL. SceneManager::read() is calling unref() on that NULL pointer. it should check against NULL. |
| 23:37:04 | crs23 | what's at stack level 10? |
| 23:37:38 | crs23 | better yet, run bzflag with the `-echo' option and look for the error message. |
| 23:38:13 | crs23 | captain_proton: the console does look too bright. still working on it. |
| 23:38:39 | captain_proton | #10 0x08072bb6 in joinGame (_serverLink=0x8232b40, _playerLink=0x82361a8) at playing.cxx:2708 |
| 23:39:07 | captain_proton | hmmm |
| 23:40:49 | captain_proton | ahh - cvs messed up my data files |
| 23:42:38 | captain_proton | all better =) |
| 23:42:51 | captain_proton | bzflag needs to error out on a bad model file |
| 23:45:11 | crs23 | captain_proton: i think the brightness may just be the gamma correction. |
| 23:45:39 | captain_proton | crs23: perhaps - it'd be nice to be able to do it though |
| 23:45:50 | captain_proton | it looks pretty good as it is ;) |
| 23:53:25 | Chestal | hmm, textures are workign now |
| 23:53:37 | Chestal | seems like X is thinking I have no mem left when using 12180x1024x24bit |
| 23:53:51 | Chestal | but that's ridiculous, I got 16MB of video card memory |
| 23:57:56 | MrApathyCream | 12180x1024 is quite big, don't you think? |
| 23:57:59 | MrApathyCream | :) |
| 23:58:03 | Chestal | heh :-) |
| 23:58:31 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: no - tiny =) |
| 23:58:34 | Chestal | crs: I got tetxures working by reducing my rsolution, with 1280x1024x24bit silyl X thinks I've eaten up all of my 16MB |
| 23:58:48 | crs23 | ahh! congrats. |
| 23:59:08 | Chestal | but I want it to work with 24 bit and the high resolutin, must check this out |
| 23:59:59 | MrApathyCream | I've had this funny problem all along with 1.7 were it works fine in the beginning, |