| 00:38:02 | BZFlag | http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/bzflag/bzflag/ChangeLog?rev=HEAD&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup |
| 00:39:03 | iLLf8d | lo bz |
| 00:39:47 | iLLf8d | for some reason I can't run more then 5 shots on one of my maps |
| 00:39:54 | iLLf8d | when I set it higher my client hangs |
| 00:40:04 | iLLf8d | its 1.7e4 tho heh |
| 01:09:10 | captain_proton | returns |
| 01:18:00 | BZFlag | e5 has some radar changes that make things smaller like in e3 |
| 01:18:13 | captain_proton | hey timmy! |
| 01:18:17 | BZFlag | heya |
| 01:18:48 | captain_proton | my d/l of the 2nd half never started |
| 01:18:55 | captain_proton | now i need to wait for that guy to come back online |
| 01:20:59 | BZFlag | bummer |
| 01:21:21 | iLLf8d | a convo my friend showed me =P |
| 01:21:23 | iLLf8d | <Boney> [12:13:49] <Reptile> sublum: I had a nightmare about all my MP3s being reencoded at a very low bitrate and I couldn't stop it. |
| 01:21:23 | iLLf8d | <Boney> [12:14:11] <Mike_L> haha |
| 01:21:23 | iLLf8d | <Boney> [12:14:11] <isomeone> Reptile: the horror |
| 01:21:24 | iLLf8d | <Boney> [12:14:20] <Reptile> I know! |
| 01:21:24 | iLLf8d | <Boney> [12:14:41] <Reptile> I've had Tradewars and Counter-Strike dreams before. |
| 01:21:25 | iLLf8d | <Boney> [12:14:50] <Reptile> The Tradewars dreams are the only dreams I've had in text. |
| 01:21:45 | captain_proton | lol |
| 01:22:04 | captain_proton | BZFlag: but one of the channels i sometimes visit started ripping all the flying circus dvd's :) |
| 01:22:19 | BZFlag | heh, cool. |
| 01:23:05 | iLLf8d | hey cap make evil a few more shots and public please =) |
| 01:23:16 | iLLf8d | I gotta fix my setup |
| 01:23:35 | iLLf8d | if you've got the time... |
| 01:23:52 | captain_proton | what flags should I use? |
| 01:24:02 | iLLf8d | whichever |
| 01:24:06 | captain_proton | i'm thinking just loads of L and CL |
| 01:24:12 | iLLf8d | I have a hybrid too in case you're interested |
| 01:24:17 | iLLf8d | not as cool but decent oo |
| 01:24:19 | iLLf8d | too |
| 01:24:26 | iLLf8d | alot more navigible |
| 01:24:45 | iLLf8d | just no sw on that one otherwise someone will sit in the hybrid pit and kill people joining =P |
| 01:25:05 | iLLf8d | lemme load it forya to see |
| 01:25:44 | captain_proton | sw would be killer on that world |
| 01:25:50 | captain_proton | it'd probably be unstoppable |
| 01:26:02 | iLLf8d | in the new world its unuseable |
| 01:26:08 | iLLf8d | the one I just created |
| 01:26:13 | captain_proton | I have a *LOT* of cloaks |
| 01:26:17 | captain_proton | laser won't be that good |
| 01:26:18 | iLLf8d | you enter the field on such a small area |
| 01:26:25 | iLLf8d | lost of stealth too |
| 01:26:28 | iLLf8d | =) |
| 01:26:33 | iLLf8d | checkout my server for a min |
| 01:26:36 | captain_proton | no st |
| 01:26:39 | captain_proton | just L and CL |
| 01:26:43 | captain_proton | ok - then we move to mine :) |
| 01:26:47 | iLLf8d | np |
| 01:27:25 | captain_proton | argh its not being public |
| 01:30:41 | captain_proton | iLLf8d: i get a segfault =/ |
| 01:31:50 | iLLf8d | no shit? |
| 01:31:54 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 01:31:58 | iLLf8d | there are 3 people on |
| 01:32:04 | iLLf8d | were 4 total |
| 01:32:06 | iLLf8d | wonder why |
| 01:32:15 | captain_proton | is my 'other' server in the list? |
| 01:32:24 | iLLf8d | only the one you can't get too |
| 01:32:31 | iLLf8d | the one running my map is listed but it goes to decks |
| 01:32:37 | captain_proton | it does?! |
| 01:32:43 | iLLf8d | and the deck server isn't |
| 01:32:44 | iLLf8d | well |
| 01:32:50 | iLLf8d | I haven't tried in the last 5 min tho |
| 01:32:52 | iLLf8d | =P |
| 01:32:57 | iLLf8d | if you changed it I dunno |
| 01:33:44 | iLLf8d | i've got 16 teleporters on that world |
| 01:33:46 | iLLf8d | is that the issue? |
| 01:33:54 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 01:34:02 | iLLf8d | dunno why you segfault |
| 01:34:04 | iLLf8d | wierd |
| 01:34:05 | captain_proton | wow the list server is completely fux0red |
| 01:34:16 | captain_proton | 16 would be an issue |
| 01:34:18 | captain_proton | 15 is fine |
| 01:34:23 | iLLf8d | no shit hmm |
| 01:34:34 | iLLf8d | works for me and a few others |
| 01:34:35 | iLLf8d | wierd |
| 01:34:37 | captain_proton | try joining bhaskara:6667 |
| 01:34:41 | iLLf8d | ok |
| 01:35:27 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 01:35:34 | iLLf8d | lemme kill my server wasn't letting me in |
| 02:26:44 | iLLf8d | hey all |
| 02:26:51 | iLLf8d | can you run bz in a window in windows? |
| 02:26:58 | captain_proton | probably |
| 02:27:58 | iLLf8d | i'm tryhing to figure out how for zdog |
| 02:28:08 | captain_proton | bzflag -window (?)( |
| 02:30:24 | iLLf8d | doesn't work |
| 02:30:29 | captain_proton | hmmm |
| 02:30:40 | iLLf8d | I tried it in the shortcut |
| 02:30:50 | iLLf8d | I tired it in the name but it said I was renaming it |
| 02:30:52 | iLLf8d | so... |
| 02:49:29 | captain_proton | Z! |
| 02:49:29 | Zdog | hey ppl |
| 02:49:58 | Zdog | took me awhile but i finally got in |
| 02:50:11 | Zdog | <--------bad computer person |
| 02:50:46 | iLLf8d | lo |
| 02:50:49 | iLLf8d | you made it |
| 02:50:51 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 02:50:56 | Zdog | yup |
| 02:50:57 | iLLf8d | its me Zdog |
| 02:50:58 | Zdog | finally |
| 02:51:04 | iLLf8d | iLLf8d=Tankenstein |
| 02:51:08 | Zdog | oh |
| 02:51:13 | Zdog | yea |
| 02:51:42 | Zdog | now, how do u close the channel list??? it jsut keeps on going |
| 02:51:49 | Zdog | never mind |
| 02:51:57 | iLLf8d | there are alot of other channels too but its mostly opensource development (ie *nix free programs etc...) |
| 02:52:03 | Zdog | ahhh |
| 02:52:23 | Zdog | who is the host?? |
| 02:52:26 | iLLf8d | kinda a development network for the linux/bsd community |
| 02:52:35 | iLLf8d | openprojects.net |
| 02:52:41 | iLLf8d | there are a number of servers |
| 02:52:46 | Zdog | how about windows |
| 02:53:12 | iLLf8d | if you goto http://www.openprojects.net |
| 02:53:13 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 02:53:18 | iLLf8d | uhm not really |
| 02:53:27 | iLLf8d | yes a tiny but not much |
| 02:53:31 | iLLf8d | its about as unwindows as you get |
| 02:53:44 | iLLf8d | and some people will treat you with hositlity if you mention windows heh |
| 02:54:22 | iLLf8d | most of the time its dead here but every once in a while people come to life |
| 02:54:28 | Zdog | oh |
| 02:54:36 | Zdog | that mean, i better get linux |
| 02:54:38 | iLLf8d | you can hear them talking about new features and code at times |
| 02:54:59 | iLLf8d | if you're not computer savy you should probably stick with windows |
| 02:55:08 | iLLf8d | linux will only be a headache for you probably |
| 02:55:55 | Zdog | gee thanks |
| 02:55:59 | iLLf8d | np |
| 02:56:11 | iLLf8d | im going back to either the field we left or another |
| 02:56:12 | iLLf8d | nheh |
| 02:56:26 | iLLf8d | you gonna stick around there? |
| 02:56:31 | Zdog | do u type -screen for window playing in bzq |
| 02:56:32 | iLLf8d | or go somewhere else |
| 02:56:38 | Zdog | where |
| 02:56:52 | Zdog | cap forced a disconnection on the server |
| 02:56:52 | iLLf8d | I type -window but I try not to use it its kinda messed in my setup |
| 02:56:55 | iLLf8d | nah |
| 02:56:57 | iLLf8d | ah |
| 02:56:57 | iLLf8d | =P |
| 02:56:58 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 02:57:02 | Zdog | lol |
| 02:57:08 | iLLf8d | whichever has the most people |
| 02:57:10 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 02:57:14 | iLLf8d | more prey to kill |
| 02:57:19 | iLLf8d | meet you there |
| 02:57:21 | Zdog | no, i probably die, i suck |
| 02:57:37 | iLLf8d | nah just have off days is all |
| 02:57:41 | iLLf8d | we all do |
| 02:57:48 | Zdog | do any of u know, how long the stats on bzflag.de is going to be off?? |
| 02:57:50 | iLLf8d | no sucking allowed |
| 02:57:51 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 02:58:07 | iLLf8d | didn't know there were any stats |
| 02:58:08 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 02:58:23 | Zdog | there was one, it shows all servers and players |
| 02:58:30 | Zdog | at the given time |
| 02:58:47 | iLLf8d | ah |
| 02:58:48 | iLLf8d | nice |
| 02:58:51 | Zdog | but shut off, and it gives the pts of each players |
| 03:00:04 | iLLf8d | looks like decks is the busiest |
| 03:00:07 | iLLf8d | going there |
| 03:00:09 | Zdog | k see u ther |
| 03:02:09 | Zdog | who is sublimianl |
| 03:06:02 | captain_proton | he's a friend |
| 03:06:13 | captain_proton | one of the originals but he plays rarely |
| 03:06:56 | Zdog | ahh |
| 03:07:09 | Zdog | cant play, too many ppl, to laggy for me :( |
| 03:07:23 | captain_proton | time to upgrade that 300 baud modem? |
| 03:07:34 | Zdog | u gotta pay for it?? |
| 03:07:36 | Zdog | lol |
| 03:07:38 | Zdog | i wish |
| 03:07:54 | Zdog | cap, i want to suggest somethign to u |
| 03:08:21 | Zdog | alot of ppl in ur server is asking u to limit the players to 20ish. |
| 03:08:32 | captain_proton | 20ish? why? |
| 03:08:41 | Zdog | somehting with lag |
| 03:09:04 | Zdog | i was playing in ur server with 14 others, and they were suggesting that |
| 03:09:15 | Zdog | and i promise them i will suggest it to u |
| 03:09:32 | captain_proton | the only way that would help with lag is for people on modem connections |
| 03:09:44 | Zdog | k |
| 03:10:02 | Zdog | i will spread the news out |
| 03:10:19 | captain_proton | and people on modems can't play when it gets near 20 anyway |
| 03:10:26 | captain_proton | at least, can't play reasonably |
| 03:12:47 | Zdog | ahh |
| 03:12:53 | Zdog | that will be me |
| 03:13:04 | Zdog | poor little doggy |
| 03:26:34 | Zdog | gtg all later |
| 06:24:29 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 06:24:44 | iLLf8d | hey I notice VERY VERY frequently when I shoot my flags drop |
| 06:24:48 | iLLf8d | whats up with that |
| 07:35:39 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 07:35:44 | captain_proton | vogon_jeltz: wake up! |
| 07:35:49 | iLLf8d | I made a script to make a few spiral boards |
| 07:35:59 | iLLf8d | seems bz can't handle it when there are too many |
| 07:36:01 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 07:36:10 | iLLf8d | cap checkout my server for a sec |
| 07:36:14 | iLLf8d | please =P |
| 07:40:18 | iLLf8d | or not =) |
| 07:40:19 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 07:54:57 | captain_proton | oh sorry i'm coming |
| 07:57:26 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 07:57:34 | iLLf8d | it was just a spiral |
| 07:57:41 | captain_proton | put it up again. |
| 07:57:46 | iLLf8d | it looked like a helix |
| 07:58:39 | iLLf8d | ok |
| 07:58:40 | iLLf8d | its up |
| 07:58:47 | iLLf8d | just a model to see what I can/can't do |
| 07:58:55 | iLLf8d | seems that bz can't handle it when I got too high |
| 07:59:06 | iLLf8d | I tried 365 degrees my client locked up |
| 08:00:43 | iLLf8d | I had to regen it its back up |
| 08:00:53 | iLLf8d | nothing too cool just a bit different |
| 08:03:41 | iLLf8d | actually at 3 degrees its not too bad |
| 08:04:10 | iLLf8d | I think i'll have it generate a cone |
| 08:04:32 | captain_proton | host/port? |
| 08:04:32 | captain_proton | list server isn't working right for me |
| 08:05:05 | iLLf8d | l8tr.dyndns.org 5155 |
| 08:05:16 | iLLf8d | new server |
| 08:05:30 | iLLf8d | if it segfaults i'll switch to the old one forya |
| 08:11:26 | iLLf8d | oops it let me on |
| 08:11:31 | iLLf8d | I made it twice as high |
| 08:11:38 | iLLf8d | its up in case you're interested |
| 08:11:50 | captain_proton | its up? |
| 08:13:25 | iLLf8d | yeah |
| 08:13:31 | iLLf8d | it worked for me that time |
| 08:13:36 | iLLf8d | I should try 365 again |
| 08:22:52 | vogon_jeltz | is back (gone 11:39:41) |
| 09:28:54 | iLLf8d | just made a building like a cylinder just to check it out |
| 09:28:55 | iLLf8d | nheh |
| 09:29:04 | captain_proton | is it up? |
| 09:29:08 | iLLf8d | nyeah |
| 09:29:12 | iLLf8d | unimpressive tho |
| 09:29:23 | iLLf8d | its solid |
| 09:32:49 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 09:43:09 | vogon_jeltz | we need the ability to include brushes that are arbitrarily shaped in the x and y axes |
| 09:44:57 | captain_proton | extrusions? |
| 09:45:19 | vogon_jeltz | yup |
| 09:45:35 | captain_proton | hmmm...i have a friend who did some rendering stuff with extrusions |
| 09:45:37 | vogon_jeltz | eats a Cup O' Noodles |
| 09:46:38 | captain_proton | vogon_jeltz: http://www.thehackerschoice.com/quiz |
| 09:47:47 | captain_proton | tell me how you do :)\ |
| 09:52:51 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 09:52:54 | vogon_jeltz | how did you do? |
| 09:53:05 | captain_proton | 30 |
| 09:53:06 | captain_proton | you? |
| 09:53:11 | vogon_jeltz | sucks... |
| 09:53:18 | vogon_jeltz | I won't say more than that |
| 09:53:25 | captain_proton | oh come on... |
| 09:53:30 | captain_proton | one person i talk to got a 3 |
| 09:53:33 | captain_proton | can't be worse than that |
| 09:54:36 | vogon_jeltz | dude, I'm not a l33t h4x0r... I never tried to be |
| 09:54:54 | captain_proton | oh come on - you can say |
| 09:54:57 | vogon_jeltz | no |
| 09:54:59 | captain_proton | i won't think any less of you ;) |
| 09:55:10 | vogon_jeltz | why, because that's impossible? ;) |
| 09:55:19 | captain_proton | lol |
| 10:09:07 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: I've recently gotten into programming with the STL |
| 10:09:21 | vogon_jeltz | man, that thing uses a lot of templates :P |
| 10:09:36 | captain_proton | yeah, but its god's gift to programmers |
| 10:09:42 | vogon_jeltz | hell, yeah :) |
| 10:10:39 | vogon_jeltz | is busy writing up a frontend<->server interface using FIFOs, and vectors + multimaps on the STL side of things |
| 10:23:53 | Chestal | STL is fine, it's jsut the implemenations / compielr that suck |
| 10:24:54 | vogon_jeltz | yeah |
| 10:25:04 | vogon_jeltz | and GCC is among the suckier of them |
| 10:26:03 | Chestal | and sadly C++ has some shortcomings that make use of the STL a bit tiresome |
| 10:26:23 | Chestal | would be much easier to use with clousres or soemthign like that |
| 10:26:56 | Chestal | there are some interesting libraries that try to compensate (like tha lambda library), but I don't know whether is feasible to use them |
| 10:50:31 | iLLf8d | can someone give me a bit of basic c help on *nix |
| 10:51:09 | vogon_jeltz | *shrug* I'll try |
| 10:51:15 | iLLf8d | I need to figure out what types I need for powers (ie sq, cubed) and how to convert back to an int and or formatted float |
| 10:51:48 | vogon_jeltz | you need to typecast to double for pow |
| 10:52:03 | iLLf8d | ok |
| 10:52:22 | vogon_jeltz | you can either do it explicitly pow((double) foo, (double) bar), or just rely on the compiler to do it implicitly |
| 10:52:23 | iLLf8d | I just noticed man pages tell me that was using an ansi c book sorry bout that |
| 10:52:24 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 10:52:28 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 10:52:53 | iLLf8d | then I need to convert back to acceptable coordinate positioning in bzflag |
| 10:53:04 | vogon_jeltz | hmm... |
| 10:53:18 | iLLf8d | I used alot of ints (they'll be converted to double I assume for calcs right) |
| 10:53:29 | vogon_jeltz | iLLf8d: they should be |
| 10:53:48 | vogon_jeltz | iLLf8d: but you should be using floats for coordinates |
| 10:53:57 | Chestal | bzflag is using floats all over |
| 10:54:04 | Chestal | probasbly becuase GL does so, too |
| 10:54:13 | iLLf8d | I was just using ints cause its loop based but I can |
| 10:54:20 | iLLf8d | I'm just generating fancy maps |
| 10:54:24 | vogon_jeltz | hell, you can use ints with GL, too :) |
| 10:54:46 | iLLf8d | gonna make a conical map |
| 10:54:46 | Chestal | ill: hmm, ints for what? |
| 10:54:55 | iLLf8d | 365 degrees |
| 10:55:01 | vogon_jeltz | it's 360 degrees |
| 10:55:03 | iLLf8d | z_position offset |
| 10:55:04 | iLLf8d | etc.... |
| 10:55:10 | iLLf8d | meant 360 heh |
| 10:55:11 | iLLf8d | =P |
| 10:55:21 | vogon_jeltz | conical maps won't jive with BZFlag, as we don't have any good collision detection |
| 10:55:25 | iLLf8d | actually it'll be 90 |
| 10:55:42 | iLLf8d | uhm? |
| 10:55:55 | iLLf8d | wassat mean? |
| 10:55:59 | iLLf8d | how wouldn't it |
| 10:56:01 | iLLf8d | just curious |
| 10:56:08 | iLLf8d | too cpu intensive? |
| 10:56:21 | iLLf8d | I made a helix shaped one |
| 10:56:36 | vogon_jeltz | the game only checks collisions against the tank bounding box in 2 dimensions |
| 10:56:44 | iLLf8d | need to use pythagorian theorem for this part |
| 10:56:56 | iLLf8d | yeah... |
| 10:57:03 | iLLf8d | its pseudo conical |
| 10:57:14 | iLLf8d | like a stair stepped conical |
| 10:57:23 | Chestal | ducati ctf is up again for now |
| 10:57:24 | vogon_jeltz | oh, that'll work, I guess |
| 10:57:34 | iLLf8d | look at uhm |
| 10:57:37 | iLLf8d | lemme show you a spiral |
| 10:57:48 | vogon_jeltz | thought you were talking about a big-ass solid cone in the middle of the map |
| 10:57:54 | iLLf8d | join uhm |
| 10:58:00 | iLLf8d | l8tr.dyndns.org 5155 |
| 11:01:19 | iLLf8d | gonna make it like that kinda |
| 11:01:26 | iLLf8d | but connical |
| 11:01:31 | iLLf8d | isn't sure one n or 2 |
| 11:01:37 | iLLf8d | conical looks right tho |
| 11:01:51 | vogon_jeltz | yup |
| 11:02:08 | iLLf8d | a few look like statues when you change the heights |
| 11:02:12 | iLLf8d | nthat was a bad rep of that world |
| 11:02:20 | iLLf8d | nlooks way cooler without the boxes around it |
| 11:02:20 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 11:02:49 | iLLf8d | but as for the conversion back to coordinate position |
| 11:03:15 | iLLf8d | formatted out I guess |
| 11:04:41 | iLLf8d | I always hated this shit in school |
| 11:04:46 | iLLf8d | type conversions |
| 11:05:17 | vogon_jeltz | uptime wars! |
| 11:05:19 | vogon_jeltz | 3:07am up 13 days, 5:06, 5 users, load average: 0.01, 0.19, 0.11 |
| 11:05:42 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 11:05:45 | Chestal | 12:07:45 up 12 days, 21:15, 18 users, load average: 0.13, 0.08, 0.06 |
| 11:05:53 | iLLf8d | 03:08:07 up 12:27, 7 users, load average: 0.04, 0.25, 0.16 |
| 11:05:54 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 11:05:55 | iLLf8d | =P |
| 11:06:01 | iLLf8d | I turn mine off every night |
| 11:06:04 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 11:06:22 | vogon_jeltz | power-cycling your computer can significantly reduce component life |
| 11:06:22 | iLLf8d | chestal 18 users? |
| 11:06:26 | iLLf8d | what are you doing? |
| 11:06:29 | Chestal | ill: it's all me :-) |
| 11:06:32 | vogon_jeltz | <chestal> I run a warez site |
| 11:06:33 | Chestal | and oen root |
| 11:06:37 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 11:06:48 | Chestal | it's just the number of open shells |
| 11:07:22 | Chestal | ill: C++ will do type promotion when you try mix-typed arithmetic and it will implictly convert int to doubles and back |
| 11:07:34 | Chestal | double->int canbe dangerous, though. A decent compielr should give you warnings |
| 11:07:57 | Chestal | e.g. when you jsut do int a=pow(2,3); |
| 11:08:01 | vogon_jeltz | to do that conversion, you should be using one of the rounding functions, the names of which escape me right now :) |
| 11:08:10 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 11:08:19 | iLLf8d | so if I have a double I can force to a float too? |
| 11:08:25 | Chestal | just do int(f+0.5) and you'll be fine |
| 11:08:33 | iLLf8d | ah |
| 11:08:34 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 11:08:35 | iLLf8d | ok |
| 11:08:46 | iLLf8d | was using c not c++ but no big deal |
| 11:08:57 | vogon_jeltz | prefers the old-school, non-function-like typecasting |
| 11:09:01 | vogon_jeltz | (int)(f+0.5) |
| 11:09:01 | iLLf8d | first few I did with dare I say it bash heh |
| 11:09:14 | iLLf8d | then I hit cosine etc... |
| 11:09:15 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 11:09:16 | vogon_jeltz | yeesh... |
| 11:09:19 | Chestal | static_cast<int>(f+0.5) :-) |
| 11:09:20 | iLLf8d | I figure I had to convert |
| 11:09:30 | vogon_jeltz | Chestal: heh |
| 11:09:48 | Chestal | the old-style casts suck |
| 11:10:01 | iLLf8d | gotta get out my cheesy c++ book |
| 11:10:04 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 11:10:11 | vogon_jeltz | for some reason, I also still use malloc()/free() instead of new/delete |
| 11:10:14 | iLLf8d | i've got a good and a sucky one (although the sucky one is good too |
| 11:10:22 | Chestal | vogon: you're kidding? |
| 11:10:26 | vogon_jeltz | Chestal: nope |
| 11:10:28 | Chestal | uah |
| 11:10:35 | Chestal | malloc and free are a really nuisance |
| 11:10:38 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 11:10:42 | Chestal | you cannot use them with objects anyway |
| 11:10:53 | vogon_jeltz | has a garbage-collecting malloc/free implementation that he uses |
| 11:11:19 | vogon_jeltz | actually, you don't need free()... it's garbage-collecting :P |
| 11:11:24 | Chestal | how is gc supposed to work with malloc/free? |
| 11:11:32 | vogon_jeltz | Chestal: refcounting |
| 11:11:44 | Chestal | then you must have a special compiler |
| 11:12:05 | vogon_jeltz | Chestal: nah, it has a different name (GC_malloc()) |
| 11:12:20 | Chestal | so, how does this work: |
| 11:12:27 | Chestal | void *p=malloc(100); |
| 11:12:28 | Chestal | p=0; |
| 11:12:57 | vogon_jeltz | as soon as you set p to 0, it notices that nothing is referencing that block of RAM anymore, and frees it |
| 11:13:08 | Chestal | how does it know that? |
| 11:13:25 | Chestal | if either has to insert hidden code whenever you modify a pointer |
| 11:13:37 | Chestal | or have a runtime that knows of all pointer values in your program |
| 11:13:40 | vogon_jeltz | hmm... not quite sure |
| 11:13:48 | vogon_jeltz | peers into the source code |
| 11:14:05 | Chestal | well, you do not have to do that much of manual heap management in C++ anyway |
| 11:14:18 | Chestal | i.e. you don't have to do dynamic memory allocation yourself |
| 11:14:19 | vogon_jeltz | I also try to stay away from C++ where it's not needed |
| 11:14:25 | Chestal | unliek in Java where you have to do it all the time |
| 11:14:30 | Chestal | I always do C++ |
| 11:14:46 | vogon_jeltz | blech... I hate C++-style stream I/O |
| 11:14:46 | Chestal | even for small things. That doesn't mean I use OO |
| 11:14:58 | Chestal | you can use pritnf in c++ |
| 11:15:03 | vogon_jeltz | yeah, I know |
| 11:15:06 | Chestal | although the streams are superior for most things |
| 11:15:16 | Chestal | they'er a bit awkward for complex formatting |
| 11:16:06 | Chestal | wil lbe right back |
| 11:17:43 | iLLf8d | check it out |
| 11:17:45 | iLLf8d | http://www.lebonze.co.uk/stuff/move.htm |
| 11:18:10 | Chestal | shows me a blank page in galeon |
| 11:18:38 | Chestal | uah, it's flash |
| 11:18:41 | vogon_jeltz | freezes my copy of Mozilla |
| 11:18:59 | Chestal | I disabled all plugins |
| 11:19:52 | vogon_jeltz | doesn't because some ignorant lunkheads feel compelled to use Flash for Websites involving things I'm actually interested in |
| 11:20:10 | Chestal | I disabled flash becuase the flash-plugin for Linux sucks |
| 11:20:20 | Chestal | it tries to open /dev/dsp in blocking mode every time |
| 11:20:28 | vogon_jeltz | hah |
| 11:20:39 | Chestal | so whenever the dsp is busy the whoel browser just hangs |
| 11:20:52 | vogon_jeltz | ahh, OK, I believe I may have figured out how this works... maybe |
| 11:21:48 | vogon_jeltz | hmm... nope |
| 11:22:25 | iLLf8d | no shit? |
| 11:22:30 | iLLf8d | run nutscrape |
| 11:22:32 | iLLf8d | its java |
| 11:22:38 | vogon_jeltz | no way in hell |
| 11:22:40 | iLLf8d | or flash depending on ie/nutscrape |
| 11:23:01 | iLLf8d | ok i'll summarize then |
| 11:23:16 | iLLf8d | its a white page and a movie of a guy in a box the size of a walkin closet |
| 11:23:34 | iLLf8d | he walks to the side and pushes the wall and your window moves like he's moving it |
| 11:23:43 | iLLf8d | then he jumps up and hits cieling |
| 11:23:55 | iLLf8d | your browser jumps up etc.... |
| 11:23:58 | iLLf8d | kinda neat |
| 11:24:12 | vogon_jeltz | heh... I run my browser full-screen... that'd just be annoying |
| 11:24:35 | iLLf8d | gf finds the strangest shit on the inet heh |
| 11:24:36 | iLLf8d | =P |
| 11:25:37 | vogon_jeltz | "However, GC_malloc will attempt to reclaim inaccessible space automatically by invoking a conservative garbage collector at appropriate points. The collector traverses all data structures accessible by following pointers from the machine's registers, stack(s), data, and bss segments. Inaccessible structures will be reclaimed." |
| 11:45:52 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 11:46:06 | iLLf8d | is there a way to view c++ libs? |
| 11:46:28 | iLLf8d | scratch that not asking properly |
| 11:46:29 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 12:42:44 | lupinator | hellas |
| 12:43:17 | Chestal | tach |
| 12:45:04 | lupinator | Chestal: mind some kills on ducati? |
| 12:45:31 | Chestal | lupinator: nope, have to work. I have an appointment in some hours and need to prepare |
| 12:46:57 | lupinator | it's more interesting not being prepared |
| 12:49:10 | Chestal | ok, but only for a few minutes |
| 12:49:34 | lupinator | :-) |
| 13:18:44 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 13:19:02 | iLLf8d | you should see the map I just made with a script heh |
| 13:19:20 | iLLf8d | was supposed to make an empty circle heh |
| 13:20:19 | iLLf8d | it kinda went off almost fractel like heh |
| 13:50:47 | iLLf8d | hey cap |
| 13:52:31 | iLLf8d | anyone up? |
| 14:19:52 | vogon_jeltz | preprocessor directives rule |
| 14:21:25 | MrApathyCream | heh |
| 14:21:32 | vogon_jeltz | #define printv(thresh, args...) if (option_pairs[OPTION_VERBOSITY] >= thresh) printf( ## args ) |
| 14:25:17 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 14:25:25 | iLLf8d | I found out whats up with these big worlds |
| 14:25:30 | vogon_jeltz | ?!?! |
| 14:25:30 | iLLf8d | bzflag tries to load them |
| 14:25:31 | vogon_jeltz | :P |
| 14:25:36 | iLLf8d | my memory gets used up |
| 14:25:44 | iLLf8d | and linux says outta memory and kills the proc |
| 14:25:48 | vogon_jeltz | hah |
| 14:26:04 | iLLf8d | its a shame too |
| 14:26:15 | iLLf8d | you have bzedit? |
| 14:26:19 | vogon_jeltz | yup |
| 14:26:19 | iLLf8d | if so can I sendya a world |
| 14:26:26 | vogon_jeltz | sure, I guess |
| 14:26:27 | iLLf8d | doesn't run but is hella cool |
| 14:27:00 | iLLf8d | dcc its queued |
| 14:27:22 | iLLf8d | I guess 800 boxes or so was the issue |
| 14:29:11 | iLLf8d | you should see it with smaller blocks looks cooler |
| 14:30:15 | iLLf8d | I sentya another one |
| 14:30:23 | iLLf8d | I made the pieces smaller in that one |
| 14:32:26 | iLLf8d | haaaaaaaaaa |
| 14:32:32 | iLLf8d | that second one works! |
| 14:32:39 | iLLf8d | takes up 31% of memory tho |
| 14:32:40 | iLLf8d | nheh |
| 14:32:48 | vogon_jeltz | no thanks |
| 14:33:01 | vogon_jeltz | the first one ran on my box but took up 74.9% of core |
| 14:33:28 | iLLf8d | the second one checkout |
| 14:33:32 | iLLf8d | it runs heh |
| 14:33:38 | vogon_jeltz | no thanks |
| 14:33:42 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 14:34:07 | vogon_jeltz | grrrrrrrrr |
| 14:34:18 | vogon_jeltz | your map killed off my instance of xemacs |
| 14:37:00 | iLLf8d | lol |
| 14:37:01 | iLLf8d | sorry heh |
| 14:37:18 | iLLf8d | hopefully you didn't lose much work |
| 14:37:26 | vogon_jeltz | isn't sure |
| 14:37:38 | iLLf8d | =( |
| 14:38:00 | iLLf8d | in bzedit it should've been fine tho... |
| 14:39:08 | vogon_jeltz | nah, didn't lose anything |
| 14:48:08 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 14:48:15 | iLLf8d | I'm glad |
| 14:48:19 | vogon_jeltz | :) |
| 14:48:21 | iLLf8d | was a nervous heh |
| 14:48:21 | iLLf8d | =P |
| 16:26:10 | iLLf8d | night all |
| 19:10:13 | captain_proton | hey tim |
| 19:28:14 | captain_proton | i see you're still going on about that 100 clients thang |
| 19:32:33 | BZFlag | heh ;-) |
| 19:32:51 | BZFlag | 100s. ie: I'm shooting for 200+ ;-) |
| 19:32:51 | Chestal | wow, a new record: |
| 19:32:59 | Chestal | PV [CS] 173 |
| 19:33:10 | Chestal | (max. MsgPlayerUpdate/s) |
| 19:33:24 | captain_proton | wpw |
| 19:33:26 | captain_proton | wow even |
| 19:33:50 | Chestal | lupi has a max. of 105 |
| 19:33:56 | Chestal | these guys have way too high framerates :-) |
| 19:34:21 | captain_proton | too high? never! |
| 19:36:19 | Chestal | without looking at the source: will adding additional bytes to MsgPlayerUpdate work? |
| 19:36:30 | Chestal | i.e. will curernt client+server just ignore them? |
| 19:36:47 | captain_proton | not without breaking compat |
| 19:36:53 | Chestal | I am not so sure |
| 19:38:53 | lupinator | time to strip the updates? |
| 19:40:46 | Chestal | I would like to add a float dt to the message |
| 19:40:59 | Chestal | of course, we coudl as well add a new msg type if the other way breaks compatability |
| 19:41:52 | lupinator | why dt? |
| 19:42:15 | Chestal | too compensate for varying packet trip times |
| 19:42:18 | captain_proton | Chestal: that breaks compatability too =/ |
| 19:42:27 | Chestal | captain_proton: not really |
| 19:42:41 | Chestal | capt: new client + new server just have to negotiate about the new packet type |
| 19:42:53 | captain_proton | so long as they're all new clients |
| 19:42:54 | Chestal | but compatability is not improtant for now as the features are purely experimental |
| 19:43:12 | Chestal | capt: serevr msut transform forth and back between message types in a mixed client setup |
| 19:47:34 | BZFlag | adding byts should work as long and the length is changed. old clients should just ignore the bytes. |
| 19:47:41 | BZFlag | what do you want to add? |
| 19:48:18 | BZFlag | oh, dt. |
| 19:48:26 | Chestal | BZFlag: I thought of adding a dt value, meaning the time difference between the two update messages |
| 19:48:27 | BZFlag | hmmm... perhaps. |
| 19:48:46 | Chestal | especially as I am experimenting with throttlign messages in the server right now |
| 19:48:54 | Chestal | and the server must delay messages to do that |
| 19:49:13 | BZFlag | ah |
| 19:49:19 | Chestal | but I will first try to add some kidn of quality metric to the client |
| 19:49:40 | Chestal | so I have at least some objective measure that let's me judge whether the chanegs affect precision too much |
| 19:50:09 | Chestal | I am currently comparing x,y coordinates received with those predicted by dead reckoning |
| 19:50:37 | Chestal | I would also like t be able to measure lag, i.e. total delay of the message |
| 19:50:38 | BZFlag | Chestal: where are your stats patches? ;-) |
| 19:50:50 | Chestal | on my hard disk :-) |
| 19:51:07 | Chestal | file server is up since noon |
| 19:51:32 | BZFlag | I'm planning to add ping/pong msgs to the new version. they will happen often on first connect and slow down as they stabilize. |
| 19:51:46 | Chestal | server<->client ping/pong? |
| 19:51:48 | captain_proton | its called table tennis you amature |
| 19:52:03 | BZFlag | say start at 1 per second and slow down to like 1 per minute or so. |
| 19:52:12 | lupinator | continous or on request? |
| 19:52:30 | BZFlag | yeah server sends ping, client sends pong reply as fast as it can. |
| 19:52:30 | lupinator | ah |
| 19:52:38 | Chestal | for my quality metrics, I coudl add an absolute timestamp to PlayerUpdate, hmm |
| 19:53:02 | BZFlag | the same msg will be padded to a large packet to determine max reliable packet size. |
| 19:53:06 | Chestal | but I would need to do an extra ping/pong communication in the beginning to estimate clock deviation |
| 19:53:27 | Chestal | bzflag: we chousl also try to measure packet loss |
| 19:53:46 | BZFlag | agreed. again using ping/pong packets. |
| 19:54:42 | lupinator | oh, won't udp message loss mess up your dt? |
| 19:55:18 | Chestal | lupi: hmm, good point. better to send absoulte timestamp then |
| 19:55:37 | Chestal | hmm |
| 19:55:50 | Chestal | maybe it's betetr to use sequence numbers in addition |
| 19:56:12 | Chestal | I have to think about that later, first I'll try without |
| 19:56:16 | BZFlag | server sends timestamp on ping, pong copies the same stamp over. |
| 19:57:00 | Chestal | too bad, that there is no way to measure time update msg took from cleint a to client b without an extra ping/pong message |
| 19:57:19 | BZFlag | huh? |
| 19:57:54 | Chestal | well, to be more exact, message time cannot be maesured at all |
| 19:57:57 | BZFlag | if the server is tracking lag times for each client then player a's lag to all other clients is playera lag + max oterhplayer lag. |
| 19:58:00 | BZFlag | on average. |
| 19:58:18 | Chestal | it can just be estimated by assumign that time for a->b equals time for b->a |
| 19:58:44 | Chestal | + possible extra delay in the server |
| 19:59:00 | Chestal | for testign my throttling I would have to have a good estimation of time a->b |
| 19:59:19 | BZFlag | you mean a->server->b ? |
| 19:59:27 | Chestal | yes |
| 20:00:04 | Chestal | but I can of course estimate additional lag causes by the server by just measuring avg. and max. delay in bzfs |
| 20:00:16 | Chestal | but I would just feel better if I would actualyl measure it directly |
| 20:00:19 | BZFlag | well, compute time on the server _should_ be trivial. so a->server and server->b should be very close to a->b |
| 20:00:41 | Chestal | not with my message throttlign delays :-) |
| 20:00:56 | Chestal | as much as 1/maxrate delay can be added |
| 20:01:15 | BZFlag | ah, pings would not be throttled, they go out directly. |
| 20:01:35 | BZFlag | and the server should know what it's average throttling lag is. |
| 20:01:50 | BZFlag | it should also know max throttling lag. |
| 20:02:00 | Chestal | yes, max. is known a priori |
| 20:02:03 | Chestal | avg. could be maesured |
| 20:02:18 | Chestal | still, I would like to mesaur eit directly instaed of deriving it, althogh it should be the same of course |
| 20:02:59 | BZFlag | implement a client to client ping then. ;-) |
| 20:03:20 | BZFlag | ie ping has a source and target. |
| 20:03:27 | Chestal | I hoped for an easier solution, but I guess there is none |
| 20:03:34 | BZFlag | norm is server to client, but client to client is also possible. |
| 20:03:58 | BZFlag | I plan to add the server as a player number for things like that. |
| 20:04:19 | BZFlag | player number 0 is the server, player number -1 is all players (ie broadcast) |
| 20:04:37 | captain_proton | BZFlag: good idea |
| 20:04:49 | BZFlag | I'm thinking of adding a team broadcast too. probably -2 |
| 20:04:52 | Chestal | 70149188 bytes sent, 374120 bps max. sent |
| 20:04:53 | Chestal | 1211878 packets sent, 1347.99 packets/s max |
| 20:05:14 | Chestal | bps is bytes per second |
| 20:05:26 | Chestal | I think it usually refers to bits |
| 20:05:27 | BZFlag | wow 1347.99 packets per second? ouch. |
| 20:05:51 | lupinator | still want 200+ players? |
| 20:06:00 | Chestal | bzflag: was with a max. of 8 players allowed |
| 20:06:01 | BZFlag | agreed. should say Bps probably. |
| 20:06:15 | BZFlag | yes! I still want 200+ players. |
| 20:06:28 | Chestal | but never with clients having full view of the world |
| 20:06:33 | captain_proton | BZFlag: does that mean you're going to write the netcode? ;) |
| 20:06:37 | Chestal | well, maybe with losing accuracy with bigger distance |
| 20:07:02 | BZFlag | not that most people will ever play in games that size, but with observers, etc there can be quite a few connections. |
| 20:07:07 | BZFlag | captain_proton: yes. |
| 20:07:17 | captain_proton | BZFlag: i still think an observer proxy is the way to go |
| 20:07:30 | Chestal | BZFlag: did you see the post on /. about the multiplayer engine? |
| 20:07:44 | BZFlag | no. date? |
| 20:08:27 | Chestal | BZFlag: hmm, I guess2 days ago. The person didn't want to do a fast paced action game, though. But som eof the discussion is interstign with pointers to the unreal architecture for example |
| 20:12:20 | BZFlag | http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/02/03/212256&mode=flat ? |
| 20:13:11 | Chestal | yes, that's it |
| 20:13:31 | Chestal | I uess by now oy'ull have to dig through a multitude of postings |
| 20:15:50 | BZFlag | http://unreal.epicgames.com/Network.htm reading |
| 20:20:43 | Chestal | hmm, I wonder: 374120 bps max. sent 1347.99 packets/s max |
| 20:21:09 | Chestal | that woudl give an average packet size of over 250 bytes |
| 20:21:19 | Chestal | maybe several joins at once? GetWorld stuff? |
| 20:23:55 | captain_proton | yay! http://jupiter.babylonia.flatirons.org/weather/ |
| 20:24:04 | captain_proton | and i haven't even started on the capitalization stuff :) |
| 20:25:09 | Chestal | these strange Fahrenheit temperature numbers |
| 20:25:18 | Chestal | one day you'll in the US will use decent units :-) |
| 20:25:31 | captain_proton | lol |
| 20:26:21 | Chestal | even the British people are becoming sensible |
| 21:16:04 | Chestal | hi Be |
| 21:16:09 | BeZee | hi |
| 21:16:21 | Chestal | lupinator: still awake? |
| 22:40:09 | Seldon | hi |
| 22:47:05 | Seldon | are there any bzflag developer here? |
| 22:50:04 | Seldon | bzflag 1.7e4 crashes when it trying to connect to bzflag.paston.co.uk |
| 22:50:13 | vogon_jeltz | is away: sl33pz0ring |
| 22:51:25 | Seldon | and i think the dns timeout is too little |
| 22:52:00 | Seldon | i ever get an timeout error, i need to get IP with host command and add the line to /etc/hosts |
| 23:04:33 | MrApathyCream | could also be the world download timeout |
| 23:04:58 | Chestal | seldon; crash or timeout? |
| 23:06:25 | iLLf8d | roflmao |
| 23:06:39 | iLLf8d | these 2 guys looks like a lovers quarrel |
| 23:06:40 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 23:06:42 | iLLf8d | <negrox> cuz, I always share, and you always brush me off. |
| 23:06:42 | iLLf8d | <nullroute> no way ... |
| 23:06:42 | iLLf8d | <nullroute> just that I had a KID 6 months ago |
| 23:06:42 | iLLf8d | <nullroute> !! |
| 23:06:42 | iLLf8d | <negrox> so you should be like "negrox, I'm busy. I can't" |
| 23:06:43 | iLLf8d | <negrox> rather than "check with me tomorrow" |
| 23:06:45 | iLLf8d | <negrox> I'm sick dude :( |
| 23:35:06 | captain_proton | thats *SCRIPTED* |
| 23:35:14 | iLLf8d | yeah |
| 23:35:30 | captain_proton | damn |
| 23:35:34 | captain_proton | send me that script :) |
| 23:35:39 | iLLf8d | heh not much to it |
| 23:35:51 | captain_proton | thats awesome |
| 23:36:09 | iLLf8d | I got a few others |
| 23:36:17 | iLLf8d | some ate up way too much memory tho heh |
| 23:38:09 | Seldon | Chestal: crash trying to connect to bzflag.paston.co.uk |
| 23:38:19 | Seldon | Chestal: timeout is the others servers |
| 23:38:38 | Seldon | but, also timeout on bzflag.paston.co.uk |
| 23:38:50 | Seldon | i can connect adding a line to my /etc/hosts |
| 23:39:03 | Seldon | 194.202.64.57 bzflag.paston.co.uk |
| 23:39:10 | iLLf8d | hmm did it send? |
| 23:39:14 | iLLf8d | says 0cps |
| 23:40:26 | captain_proton | yep i got it |
| 23:40:34 | iLLf8d | what I gotta do is invert the stack loop |
| 23:41:04 | iLLf8d | I was shooting for a pseudo cone not a stadium |
| 23:41:27 | MrApathyCream | allmost a full game chestal red v green |
| 23:41:41 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 23:41:50 | iLLf8d | very unimpressive script huh |
| 23:41:52 | iLLf8d | =P |
| 23:41:58 | captain_proton | iLLf8d: technically its not a script |
| 23:42:07 | captain_proton | but its cool that it generates the stadium like htat |
| 23:42:35 | iLLf8d | yeah... started with bash originally heh |
| 23:42:36 | iLLf8d | =P |
| 23:42:40 | iLLf8d | why I was calling it a script heh |
| 23:43:17 | iLLf8d | I gotta have it split into fewer segments to generate less boxes too |
| 23:43:21 | iLLf8d | takes forever to load |
| 23:43:36 | iLLf8d | I sent one full blow generated one to vogon |
| 23:43:42 | iLLf8d | mentioned he needed alot fo memory |
| 23:43:52 | iLLf8d | it ate up a ton and crashed his emacs |
| 23:43:53 | iLLf8d | heh =P |
| 23:44:24 | iLLf8d | I hit a ceiling too and watched the linux vm kill it off twice heh |
| 23:45:55 | captain_proton | that stadium doesn't play as well as the helix |
| 23:46:49 | iLLf8d | oh no I was tweaking the code still |
| 23:46:59 | iLLf8d | its still not right but i'm getting it close to what I wanted it to do |
| 23:47:06 | iLLf8d | just thought it looked cool tho |
| 23:47:26 | captain_proton | looks cool in bzedit - not so much in bzflag ;) |
| 23:47:50 | captain_proton | did you redo evilevilevil to have them all line up at 10m borders? |
| 23:48:22 | iLLf8d | lemme sendya another one |
| 23:48:33 | iLLf8d | won't be as good... |
| 23:48:42 | iLLf8d | the offset makes all the pockets |
| 23:48:46 | iLLf8d | lemme sendya 2 more |
| 23:48:57 | iLLf8d | nones playable and the other is another stadium looking one |
| 23:50:34 | iLLf8d | hybrid_mod is completely fieldable with teleporters and all |
| 23:50:38 | iLLf8d | JUST NO SW! |
| 23:50:46 | iLLf8d | thats a requirement on that field |
| 23:50:53 | iLLf8d | all the flags are in a pit |
| 23:51:10 | iLLf8d | if someone gets sw they can go up over pit and just sit there where people enter the game and kill everyone |
| 23:57:17 | captain_proton | yeah that new one sux0rs... |
| 23:57:59 | iLLf8d | the offset is what makes the other one cool |
| 23:58:18 | captain_proton | plus the ground in that one was cool |
| 23:58:29 | iLLf8d | yeah I put in random ground heh |
| 23:58:34 | captain_proton | BZFlag: something's weird for the list server |
| 23:58:45 | captain_proton | the small spawn pockets just don't work for me |
| 23:59:09 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 23:59:12 | BZFlag | captain_proton: what's up? |
| 23:59:46 | BZFlag | I get a list. |
| 23:59:57 | captain_proton | i try to start another server, and it changes the description on my old one and doesn't list the new one |