| 00:30:32 | iLLf8d | lo |
| 00:30:40 | iLLf8d | can someone take a look at a world for me? |
| 00:31:07 | iLLf8d | l8tr.dyndns.org port 8000 |
| 00:31:16 | iLLf8d | i'm trying to decide what features too include |
| 00:31:29 | iLLf8d | and really need another gamers opinion |
| 04:23:39 | iLLf8d | yo cap |
| 04:23:45 | iLLf8d | you about? |
| 05:57:28 | captain_parser | heyhey apathy |
| 06:03:26 | MrApathyCream | hey |
| 06:08:49 | BZFlag | iLLf8d: did you get your opinion? |
| 07:27:57 | MrApathyCream | Chestal: Using e5 server now? |
| 07:35:54 | iLLf8d | uhm |
| 07:35:58 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 07:35:59 | iLLf8d | he gone |
| 07:36:01 | iLLf8d | =P |
| 07:42:02 | MrApathyCream | hey ill |
| 07:45:12 | iLLf8d | li |
| 07:45:14 | iLLf8d | lo |
| 07:45:15 | iLLf8d | even heh |
| 07:45:44 | iLLf8d | i'm considering making a map editor so to speak |
| 07:45:57 | captain_parser | iLLf8d: huh? |
| 07:45:59 | iLLf8d | nothing like bzedit something that'll do textures |
| 07:46:06 | iLLf8d | almost like uhm |
| 07:46:18 | iLLf8d | a 3d spectrum analyizer setup |
| 07:46:37 | iLLf8d | hard to explain |
| 07:46:43 | iLLf8d | I'm using textures incorrectly |
| 07:46:54 | iLLf8d | ie it'll use boxes to make a topographical map |
| 07:47:10 | iLLf8d | know what I mean? |
| 07:47:18 | MrApathyCream | no |
| 07:47:20 | iLLf8d | I have a world that I started |
| 07:47:20 | captain_parser | no |
| 07:47:26 | MrApathyCream | :) |
| 07:47:29 | iLLf8d | lemme sendya a map I was goofing with |
| 07:47:43 | MrApathyCream | ok |
| 07:47:47 | iLLf8d | you'll see what i mean somewhat like what i'll send you but more solid |
| 07:48:50 | iLLf8d | cap whys it say 0cps |
| 07:48:51 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 07:48:52 | iLLf8d | wierd |
| 07:48:57 | iLLf8d | maybe it went too fast |
| 07:49:01 | captain_parser | i'm not seeing a dcc at all |
| 07:49:10 | iLLf8d | says its done |
| 07:49:18 | MrApathyCream | got it |
| 07:49:25 | iLLf8d | resent |
| 07:49:26 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 07:49:30 | iLLf8d | --- DCC SEND connection established from captain_parser [128.138.3.188:32979] |
| 07:49:30 | iLLf8d | --- DCC SEND qbert_partial2.bzw to captain_parser complete [0 cps]. |
| 07:49:39 | iLLf8d | you sure its just not coming in too fast for it to showup |
| 07:49:42 | captain_parser | ahh i got it |
| 07:49:54 | iLLf8d | well that one is just blocks |
| 07:50:04 | iLLf8d | imagine them alot smaller and grouped and solid to the ground |
| 07:50:11 | iLLf8d | so you could form valleys and whatnot |
| 07:50:30 | captain_parser | whoa sweet |
| 07:50:31 | iLLf8d | basicall all it'll do is take a say 100x100 or 400x400 or whatever |
| 07:50:47 | iLLf8d | I have a donut I'm in the process of making too |
| 07:50:50 | iLLf8d | it'll be a ringworld |
| 07:50:50 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 07:50:56 | iLLf8d | you'll be in the sphere |
| 07:51:20 | iLLf8d | I was just goofing and it got me to thinking |
| 07:51:26 | iLLf8d | i'd like some wave form patterns |
| 07:51:38 | iLLf8d | then I thought maybe it I had a 3d setup like bzedit |
| 07:51:47 | iLLf8d | and fill in the field with standardized blocks |
| 07:51:49 | captain_parser | hmmm |
| 07:51:54 | MrApathyCream | doin big download, can't connect because of it.... timeout |
| 07:51:56 | iLLf8d | almost like that PIN thing... |
| 07:52:00 | captain_parser | i could write a simple procedural generator for that... |
| 07:52:07 | iLLf8d | where you press your hand into it and it shows your pattern????? |
| 07:52:10 | iLLf8d | KNOW WHAT I MEAN? |
| 07:52:22 | captain_parser | always have a +-1 difference between at least 2 adjacent blocks |
| 07:52:27 | captain_parser | yeah i know |
| 07:52:30 | iLLf8d | yeah |
| 07:52:34 | iLLf8d | so you could make a valley |
| 07:52:35 | iLLf8d | etc... |
| 07:52:37 | iLLf8d | whatever |
| 07:52:48 | iLLf8d | I figured it'd be a good project |
| 07:52:49 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 07:52:52 | MrApathyCream | would be better to define them at the world file level, and have bzfs convert them |
| 07:52:58 | MrApathyCream | to keep bzw files from being hugh |
| 07:52:58 | captain_parser | MrApathyCream: 'course |
| 07:53:03 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 07:53:19 | iLLf8d | I also couldn't decide on uniform size |
| 07:53:20 | MrApathyCream | I did a very simple version of that |
| 07:53:21 | iLLf8d | or whatever.... |
| 07:53:36 | MrApathyCream | objects: frame, bridge, group |
| 07:53:37 | iLLf8d | I like the gaps so you can shoot under at other people |
| 07:53:44 | captain_parser | MrApathyCream: yeah those looked sweet |
| 07:53:48 | captain_parser | at least group did ;) |
| 07:54:05 | iLLf8d | just a few ideas tho... |
| 07:54:47 | iLLf8d | text chat blows.... |
| 07:54:53 | MrApathyCream | would be nice if tanks didn't stop when hitting buildings of size z+1 where z is current height |
| 07:55:08 | iLLf8d | I figure those qberts setup properly stacked with a heat sink below would be way cool |
| 07:55:32 | captain_parser | MrApathyCream: well, z+1 is visible...but z+.2 should work |
| 07:55:59 | MrApathyCream | Still, inBuilding should succeed, causing tank to stop |
| 08:03:39 | MrApathyCream | iLLf8d: radar is cool with your map :) |
| 09:00:10 | iLLf8d | dude |
| 09:00:12 | iLLf8d | checkout this one |
| 09:00:13 | iLLf8d | =P |
| 09:00:28 | iLLf8d | actually lemme finish it i'm coming down the home stretch |
| 09:00:40 | iLLf8d | can you help me with a quick script |
| 09:01:07 | iLLf8d | i'd like to add x to the base heights of all boxes in my world |
| 09:01:15 | iLLf8d | so I can stack them |
| 09:01:31 | iLLf8d | they each have a few hundred boxes and i'm lazy |
| 09:12:36 | MrApathyCream | heh: not tonite, i've got a headache |
| 09:12:39 | MrApathyCream | cya |
| 09:59:31 | iLLf8d | anyone uPPPPPPPPPPPP |
| 09:59:36 | iLLf8d | nYOU GOTTA CHECK THIS OUT! |
| 09:59:52 | vogon_jeltz | what? |
| 10:00:06 | iLLf8d | join l8tr.dyndns.org port 5000 |
| 10:00:07 | iLLf8d | bzflag |
| 10:00:13 | vogon_jeltz | why? |
| 10:00:15 | iLLf8d | i'll stay out |
| 10:00:19 | iLLf8d | just in case |
| 10:00:23 | iLLf8d | a new map i'm working on |
| 10:00:30 | iLLf8d | seriously take a look |
| 10:00:33 | vogon_jeltz | meh, no thx |
| 10:00:35 | iLLf8d | I stacked it |
| 10:00:40 | iLLf8d | you serious? |
| 10:00:48 | iLLf8d | sheesh heh |
| 11:21:33 | lupinator | hellas |
| 11:24:23 | Chestal | hi lupi |
| 12:32:54 | iLLf8d | jeeze |
| 12:32:58 | iLLf8d | I made the most evil map ever |
| 12:33:01 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 12:33:10 | iLLf8d | anyone wanna look? |
| 12:33:23 | iLLf8d | gotta add in 4 more teleporters but other then that its done |
| 13:08:47 | Chestal | http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/02/03/212256 discussion on slashdot about ultiplayer game engine |
| 13:08:52 | iLLf8d | chestal |
| 13:09:02 | iLLf8d | dude can you checkout my new evil world? |
| 13:09:23 | iLLf8d | I dunno if I can connect at the same time but ... its completely evil |
| 13:09:46 | iLLf8d | its like death on a server |
| 13:09:47 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 13:10:51 | Chestal | ill: sorry, not now |
| 13:12:15 | iLLf8d | head is gonna burst heh |
| 13:12:16 | iLLf8d | =P |
| 14:29:22 | Chestal | hi Cream |
| 14:29:35 | Chestal | have a look at http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/02/03/212256 if you will |
| 14:30:25 | MrApathyCream | hey...ok |
| 14:32:17 | MrApathyCream | heh.. sounds familiar |
| 14:33:41 | Chestal | yep, they're also talking about lag etc. |
| 14:34:01 | Chestal | the are som epointers to web sites, e.g. a document describing the architecture of the Unreal net code |
| 14:34:29 | Chestal | most engines seem to prefer a server which has the reference state of the world |
| 14:35:10 | Chestal | and does all critical decisions like shot hits |
| 14:35:46 | Chestal | one guy suggests doing dead reckoning with an additonal interpolation to avoid jumps |
| 14:35:53 | vogon_jeltz | *cough*because it's the only thing that works*/cough* |
| 14:36:01 | Chestal | we could add that interpolation |
| 14:36:12 | Chestal | I also think we should send dt with each update message |
| 14:36:21 | Chestal | I am not so sure that server side collision detection is good for bz |
| 14:36:25 | vogon_jeltz | well, technically, you could create a client-is-god-of-gamestate game, but not as open-source |
| 14:36:44 | Chestal | vogon; because of cheating? |
| 14:36:48 | vogon_jeltz | yup |
| 14:36:58 | Chestal | I am more concerned with good net performance currently |
| 14:37:22 | vogon_jeltz | if it were closed-source then you could have the server throw the rules over the aether on connection, then just have the clients obey those rules |
| 14:37:51 | Chestal | some peopel there mentioned that you have to design in a way that you live with lags in the range of >1000ms, we can never dothat with bz though |
| 14:38:12 | vogon_jeltz | the game in question is an MMORPG |
| 14:38:12 | Chestal | must be strange games these people play |
| 14:38:31 | vogon_jeltz | lag doesn't matter as much in an RPG as in an FPS |
| 14:38:32 | Chestal | wel, yes, but soem of the answers seemed to also be about FPS |
| 14:40:39 | Chestal | and as I supsetced, other games use what someoen called a bubble-approach for updates |
| 14:41:06 | Chestal | with most FPS you cannot see the entire world at once glance as you can with bz, soyou do not need to send updated about everyone to everyone |
| 15:03:56 | vogon_jeltz | same with MMORPGs |
| 16:17:58 | Chestal | hmm, I wonder what happens if I add additonal information at the end of PlayerUpdate |
| 16:20:33 | lupinator | a lot of people claim that every nation needs an army and peace remains only because you fear the other armies. so is everyone has the power to cheat ... |
| 16:20:43 | lupinator | not my opinion though |
| 16:22:29 | Chestal | lupi: hab gerade wieder auf anderen Servern gespielt, das leistet aber auf Dauer nicht |
| 16:22:38 | Chestal | lupi: di elaggen udn nerven rum mit ihrer feigen Spielweise |
| 16:23:55 | lupinator | Chestal: ich hab gestern nochmal mit bulllet gespielt. springen und flaggen scheint die leute wohl zu feiger spielweise zu erziehen |
| 16:24:56 | lupinator | Chestal: un dann hat er sich beschwert, dass die anderen bevorzugt ihn abschiessen |
| 16:24:57 | Chestal | unser fileserver wird gerade neu installiert mit neuer Platte |
| 16:25:28 | lupinator | hooray |
| 16:25:43 | Chestal | kannaber noch nicht sagen, wanns wieder einsatzfaehig ist, ich hoffe morgen oder uebermorgen |
| 16:26:03 | lupinator | backups? |
| 16:26:22 | Chestal | die Userdaten liegen eh auf ner andeern Platte |
| 16:26:40 | lupinator | Chestal: was frag ich das ueberhaupt bei nem fileserver? |
| 16:26:46 | Chestal | musste eh einneues AIX-Release drauf, nu wird komplett neu installiert |
| 16:27:58 | lupinator | Chestal: tanks rechner waer in der nacht /morgen vor der facharbeitsabgabe fast total zerbroeselt |
| 16:28:04 | Chestal | lupi: hast du eigentlich Lust, auch ein wneig Energie in 1.8 zu stecken? |
| 16:28:16 | Chestal | lupi: ah, wie sich das gehoert vor nem wichtigen Termin :-) |
| 16:28:37 | lupinator | Chestal: und kurz vor abschluss... |
| 16:28:57 | lupinator | Chestal: also wens was gibts was ich machen kann |
| 16:29:21 | Chestal | lupi: was kannst du denn? |
| 16:30:05 | Chestal | lupi: wenn du Lust udn wir beide mal irgendwann Zeit haben, koennten wir mal versuchen, ein wenig das Protokoll zu verbessern |
| 16:30:17 | lupinator | Chestal: also c++ technich siehts wohl schlecht aus. mein e3 erhaengt sich jetzt immer wenn ich die tastaturbelegung aendern will |
| 16:30:23 | Chestal | lupi: udn zwar: weniger Nachrichten senden, dead reckoning verbessern |
| 16:30:31 | Chestal | lupi: das geht allein immer schwer |
| 16:30:42 | Chestal | hmm, merkwuerdig mit deiner e3 |
| 16:30:45 | lupinator | Chestal: klar. das waer gut |
| 16:31:09 | Chestal | ich hatt da schon mal angefangen, nur im Moment keine Zeit |
| 16:31:10 | lupinator | Chestal: da hab ich was mit send to... vermurkst |
| 16:31:36 | Chestal | ist aber ganz spannend glaub ich |
| 16:32:44 | lupinator | Chestal: kannst dir auch mal ueberlegen wie du auf deinem server ne doppelte wertung von rico treffern einfuehren kannst ;-) |
| 16:33:06 | Chestal | hmm, interessante Idee |
| 16:33:13 | Chestal | ich hab noch ne Idee, ich anable jumping |
| 16:33:22 | Chestal | pro Sprugn gibts einen Minuspunkt |
| 16:33:29 | lupinator | hehe |
| 16:33:47 | lupinator | Chestal: is ja eigentlich sowieso so |
| 16:33:53 | Chestal | jo, meistens schon |
| 16:34:14 | Chestal | udn pro Sekunde aufm Gebauede gitbs auch -1 |
| 16:34:39 | Chestal | ausserdem sollt ein Panzer mit ner GM unheimlich sdchwer sein und nciht mehr so hoch springen koennen |
| 16:35:05 | lupinator | Chestal: nen extra punkt zu vergeben muesste leicht gehen. aber ich glaub ob ein treffer vorher an ne wand ging muss das opfer sagen |
| 16:35:18 | Chestal | ja, das ist nur im client feststellbar |
| 16:35:27 | Chestal | da muesste es durchaus machbar sein |
| 16:35:39 | Chestal | vielleicht ne Idee fuer 1.8 |
| 16:35:53 | lupinator | Chestal: und ausserdem muss die reload zeit vom lag abhaengen |
| 16:36:25 | Chestal | lupi: hattest du meine ersten Ergebnisse mitbekomen bzgl. Netzwerkstatistiken? |
| 16:36:52 | lupinator | Chestal: nur die bandbreite. was sonst noch kommt weiss ich nicht |
| 16:37:15 | Chestal | lupi: zum einen hat ich nach Nachrichtentyp unterschieden. Wie erwartet dominiert MsgPlayerUpdate |
| 16:37:49 | Chestal | lupinator: ausserdem noch pro Player Anzahl der Update-Pakete. da gibts fiese Maxima bei Leuten mit hoher Framerate, hab bis zu 90 Nachrichten/s gemessen |
| 16:38:29 | Chestal | ich komm mit meinem bei wiledm Mausgeruckel so auf 30 maximal, viel mehr gibt meien Framerate ja auch nicht her |
| 16:40:19 | lupinator | Chestal: und du meinst da kann man was unterschlagen? |
| 16:40:37 | Chestal | lupi: ja, man muss es nur halbwegs geschickt anstellen |
| 16:40:51 | Chestal | lupi: udn ist im server schwieriger als im Client |
| 16:41:05 | Chestal | lupi: aber das kann man experimentell testen, also einfach aendern und dann schauen, obs gut aussieht |
| 16:41:25 | Chestal | lupi: ausserdem kann man auch ne halbwegs objektive Messung einbauen in den CLient |
| 16:42:26 | lupinator | Chestal: kannst du den test spieler klonen und dessen updates ungefiltert schicken? |
| 16:42:27 | Chestal | lupi: koennenwir uns irgendwann die Tage mal anschauen, mus sjetzt hier mal weiterlesen, hab morgen nen Termin |
| 16:42:46 | Chestal | hmm, klonen ist auch ne Idee, mal sehen |
| 16:43:01 | lupinator | schaumer mal |
| 17:39:58 | captain_parser | ahhhhhh german |
| 17:43:02 | Chestal | uah, most servers really suck |
| 17:43:13 | Chestal | they have so much flags all over the place that I cannot see anything on radar |
| 17:43:21 | Chestal | players with fx3 versons still playing, oh my |
| 17:43:25 | captain_parser | yeah =/ |
| 17:43:27 | Chestal | virtualyl noone with e4 |
| 17:43:35 | captain_parser | we *need* to get frank to kill that |
| 17:44:12 | Chestal | lots of team killers out there and no admins in sight |
| 17:44:18 | captain_parser | Chestal: where? |
| 17:44:28 | Chestal | uh, dunno where I was, some 4-shot-server |
| 17:44:36 | captain_parser | hmm |
| 17:44:51 | Chestal | there are far to many 3/4-shot,jumping,flags servers out there |
| 17:44:58 | Chestal | they're all the same to me |
| 17:45:12 | captain_parser | there should be a "trusted admin" network - where you can give admin to the network, and any of the people in it can kick/ban/etc |
| 17:45:39 | captain_parser | yeah...we need more interesting servers |
| 17:45:41 | Chestal | when a srever has some regulars it also works ok this way |
| 17:46:06 | Chestal | and lag really sucks with jumping |
| 17:46:23 | Chestal | you'll need lots of shots to hit an everjumping tank |
| 17:46:45 | captain_parser | yup |
| 17:46:53 | captain_parser | i like to think my server has many admins and good lag :) |
| 17:47:14 | Chestal | and peopel playign cowardly, not talking etc. |
| 17:47:23 | captain_parser | yeah - thats the bad part |
| 17:47:38 | captain_parser | we've got some talented players as regulars there |
| 17:48:33 | Chestal | name one :-) |
| 17:48:56 | captain_parser | gerbil |
| 17:49:10 | Chestal | talented ;-) |
| 17:49:26 | captain_parser | tankenstein (somewhat talented, just WAY too much practice recently) |
| 17:50:05 | captain_parser | me, moose, nuum, monkeyboy, etc |
| 17:59:48 | lupinator | btw, is there a chance to get the old radar back? maybe as an option |
| 18:36:08 | Chestal | we'll need to work on it for the next minor release |
| 18:37:44 | captain_parser | lupinator: should be an option already - turn off "enhanced radar" |
| 18:38:42 | lupinator | will that make the tanks smaller and draw shots as pixels? |
| 18:38:49 | captain_parser | don't know |
| 18:40:01 | lupinator | hm, no |
| 21:45:57 | vogon_jeltz | is away: afk |