| 07:48:09 | iLLf8d | yo all |
| 07:48:26 | iLLf8d | theres a cheat tank on chardonay killing a traitor which is a good thing but the cheat tank is a bad thing |
| 07:48:32 | iLLf8d | it flys all over and is really fast |
| 07:48:35 | iLLf8d | cool to watch |
| 07:48:40 | iLLf8d | dunno if you want to do something about it tho? |
| 07:49:11 | iLLf8d | I was traitor killer then some dude named [killing traitor mns] showed up wiht hte cheat tank |
| 07:49:23 | iLLf8d | you gotta break protocol if you saw what this tank does |
| 07:49:33 | iLLf8d | we need more features |
| 07:49:45 | iLLf8d | features features features ! |
| 07:49:46 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 07:49:54 | iLLf8d | i'm going back to watch |
| 07:52:05 | iLLf8d | dudes you gotta see this |
| 07:52:38 | iLLf8d | anyone? |
| 08:02:34 | iLLf8d | he's gone now |
| 08:02:41 | iLLf8d | I wanted you to see the cheat tank flying around |
| 08:02:48 | iLLf8d | was pretty slick |
| 08:03:02 | BZFlag | sorry I missed it. |
| 08:03:11 | iLLf8d | yeah he was killing this traitor guy |
| 08:03:22 | iLLf8d | went i'd say about 1000% faster |
| 08:03:26 | iLLf8d | and flew all over |
| 08:03:27 | captain_proton | heh |
| 08:03:38 | iLLf8d | was really cool |
| 08:03:45 | iLLf8d | I mean sucks it was a cheat tank |
| 08:04:08 | iLLf8d | break the protocol add new features =) |
| 08:04:18 | iLLf8d | wants jumpjets number one on the list |
| 08:04:25 | iLLf8d | would add such a cool dynamic |
| 08:04:33 | captain_proton | iLLf8d: working on a completely new protocol... |
| 08:04:35 | iLLf8d | although we'd all need rapid fire to compensate |
| 08:04:52 | iLLf8d | add in an antigrav features |
| 08:05:10 | iLLf8d | so that tanks with ag flag can flip over and drive on cieling |
| 08:05:23 | iLLf8d | ie halfway between structures tanks flip |
| 08:05:41 | iLLf8d | ok thats it I gotta start to code more so I can contribute |
| 08:06:47 | iLLf8d | would be cool to have a 3d board |
| 08:06:57 | iLLf8d | ie 6 planes of fire heh |
| 08:07:05 | iLLf8d | like the inside of a box |
| 08:07:07 | iLLf8d | =) |
| 08:07:19 | captain_proton | hmmm |
| 08:07:28 | iLLf8d | use a teleporter to traverse planes |
| 08:07:54 | iLLf8d | so many cool new feature possibilities |
| 08:08:09 | iLLf8d | mortars would be cool too |
| 08:08:29 | captain_proton | i think mortars are too hard to aim - it would slow it down |
| 08:08:30 | iLLf8d | mines |
| 08:08:33 | iLLf8d | so many cool things |
| 08:08:36 | iLLf8d | timed mine flag |
| 08:08:43 | iLLf8d | ie it scatters like 5 charges |
| 08:08:58 | iLLf8d | call it grenade I guess |
| 08:08:59 | captain_proton | hmmm |
| 08:08:59 | iLLf8d | =P |
| 08:09:20 | iLLf8d | there are so many cool things that could be added |
| 08:09:29 | iLLf8d | I also thing you need escalators |
| 08:09:39 | iLLf8d | I setup a bunch of teleporters as them |
| 08:09:46 | iLLf8d | ie flat conveyor belts |
| 08:09:56 | iLLf8d | but it burned up too many with the teleporter limitation |
| 08:10:12 | iLLf8d | made it look like the tank was hella fast tho |
| 08:11:11 | iLLf8d | I think a flare flag would rock |
| 08:11:31 | iLLf8d | every so many seconds you can shoot off a flare and blind people in the vicinity |
| 08:11:40 | captain_proton | yeah the teleporter limitation sucks ass |
| 08:11:44 | captain_proton | new protocol will fix that |
| 08:12:09 | iLLf8d | perhaps a ep weapon electron pulse |
| 08:12:21 | iLLf8d | ie all tanks w/in a short range die for a few seconds |
| 08:12:34 | captain_proton | die? as in stop? |
| 08:12:37 | iLLf8d | yeah |
| 08:12:43 | captain_proton | would need to make it small |
| 08:12:44 | iLLf8d | like an electro magnetic pulse |
| 08:12:48 | iLLf8d | emp weapon |
| 08:12:49 | captain_proton | and it only makes sense for team play |
| 08:12:58 | captain_proton | plus it would have to disable your tank too |
| 08:12:59 | iLLf8d | yeah so many cool features |
| 08:13:06 | captain_proton | so teammates would need to be careful |
| 08:13:20 | captain_proton | what I really want is an option to hide who has the team flag |
| 08:13:22 | iLLf8d | you could set it up to supposedly have a shielded tank |
| 08:13:22 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 08:13:33 | iLLf8d | ooo I don't like that one heh |
| 08:13:34 | iLLf8d | =P |
| 08:13:36 | captain_proton | then my tunnels world would kick ass |
| 08:13:40 | captain_proton | it would be an option |
| 08:13:45 | iLLf8d | I'd do just the opposite |
| 08:13:50 | iLLf8d | make the flag really huge |
| 08:13:52 | captain_proton | but think of it - 4 bases, all interconnected by many tunnels |
| 08:13:59 | iLLf8d | like one you see on a bicycle |
| 08:14:12 | captain_proton | well, hide it on radar i mean |
| 08:14:15 | captain_proton | and not identify who has it |
| 08:14:17 | iLLf8d | yeah that'd be fine |
| 08:14:19 | captain_proton | you could still see it |
| 08:14:26 | iLLf8d | also another flag would be displacement |
| 08:14:36 | iLLf8d | ie it'd lag your tank one tank length |
| 08:14:47 | captain_proton | just think of it - you'd make a team assault on a base - then split up into the tunnels |
| 08:15:01 | iLLf8d | I've got a partial field with a laser mote |
| 08:15:15 | iLLf8d | its 2 square fences one inside the other |
| 08:15:17 | captain_proton | the other team *has* to try to protect their base because if they allow the other team to get the flag they're pretty much doomed |
| 08:15:21 | iLLf8d | with a slot on the inner fence |
| 08:15:25 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: more likely, you'd all run in one direction and get killed by a TKer |
| 08:15:25 | captain_proton | it enforces a territory to guard |
| 08:15:30 | captain_proton | TK? |
| 08:15:32 | iLLf8d | you put the laser tank there and charge the field |
| 08:15:45 | iLLf8d | and you need to use bridges to get into the castle |
| 08:15:45 | vogon_jeltz | team-killer |
| 08:15:57 | captain_proton | vogon_jeltz: well, it would require planning |
| 08:16:10 | captain_proton | and traitors wouldn't have the necessary karma to log into the server ;) |
| 08:16:31 | iLLf8d | captain_proton: for teams why not make it like |
| 08:16:32 | iLLf8d | uhm |
| 08:16:38 | iLLf8d | your tank is getting beaten up |
| 08:17:00 | iLLf8d | ie stearing starts to go out heh |
| 08:17:07 | iLLf8d | steering even |
| 08:17:08 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 08:17:16 | captain_proton | *that* would be cool - various parts of the tank damaged |
| 08:17:23 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: the problem is, most people will set their server karma caps up too high, which means that newbies will have to play on the servers with bad people |
| 08:17:28 | iLLf8d | radar or zoom |
| 08:17:32 | iLLf8d | or binocs |
| 08:17:33 | iLLf8d | etc... |
| 08:17:46 | iLLf8d | you can say laser interface down |
| 08:17:50 | iLLf8d | so you can't use laser flags |
| 08:17:51 | iLLf8d | etc... |
| 08:17:56 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: and they won't score well enough (because they get TKed a lot) to gaing karma quickly |
| 08:18:00 | vogon_jeltz | gain, eve |
| 08:18:03 | vogon_jeltz | even... |
| 08:18:10 | iLLf8d | karma scares me |
| 08:18:15 | captain_proton | vogon_jeltz: well, perhaps the minimum karma should be able to be set by the players in the same way player karma gets set |
| 08:18:17 | iLLf8d | then again server lag kill scared me too |
| 08:18:17 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 08:18:37 | captain_proton | I suppose that means good players could form an 'elitest' club, but thats unlikely |
| 08:18:46 | iLLf8d | I still like the registered nicks and dsa keys to connect to server |
| 08:18:53 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: if minimum karma is a votable option, then low-karma people will set the karma caps low, and they'll be rendered useless |
| 08:19:08 | iLLf8d | captain_proton: LOL |
| 08:19:20 | iLLf8d | alot of these people run *nix |
| 08:19:21 | captain_proton | vogon_jeltz: but minimum karma votes have a variable impact depending on the voter's karma |
| 08:19:26 | captain_proton | it all balances itself ;) |
| 08:19:27 | iLLf8d | and you don't think an elitist club will form? |
| 08:19:45 | captain_proton | iLLf8d: well, the idea is that the people with the highest karma will be the best and nicest players |
| 08:19:51 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: then the votes are useless, as newbies can't vote down karma caps |
| 08:20:01 | iLLf8d | like I said it doesn't always work that way |
| 08:20:08 | captain_proton | yeah... |
| 08:20:10 | iLLf8d | alot of people accuse me of cheating when I don't |
| 08:20:11 | iLLf8d | so... |
| 08:20:13 | captain_proton | what a conundrum |
| 08:20:25 | captain_proton | iLLf8d: well you are a shit-talker ;) |
| 08:20:26 | iLLf8d | I've considered it tho |
| 08:20:29 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 08:20:46 | captain_proton | but there are those of us who know you're an ok guy |
| 08:21:00 | iLLf8d | yeah a few... |
| 08:21:07 | captain_proton | just like moose - he's the 'clan asshole', but in reality he's a really nice person |
| 08:21:13 | iLLf8d | then again I log more time then anyone so... |
| 08:21:20 | iLLf8d | I'll be able to dish out alot of karma |
| 08:21:36 | captain_proton | yeah |
| 08:21:40 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: that's another thing... karma shouldn't be time-dependent |
| 08:21:43 | captain_proton | the time you log is disgusting |
| 08:21:53 | captain_proton | vogon_jeltz: time-dependent?! |
| 08:22:10 | vogon_jeltz | you guys said that karma should vary with the amount of time you play |
| 08:22:18 | captain_proton | i don't remember saying that |
| 08:23:04 | captain_proton | your karma should be partially (a small amount) determined by score, and mostly by other player ratings |
| 08:23:10 | vogon_jeltz | your ideas for initial karma population all revolved around people gaining seniority by playing for a long time |
| 08:23:30 | captain_proton | i figured initial karma population would be determined by the developers ;) |
| 08:24:11 | iLLf8d | do you guys have any actual new protocol code written? and are you converting it to sdl or anything like that? |
| 08:24:12 | vogon_jeltz | also, your karma should decrease as you increase other peoples' karma |
| 08:24:27 | vogon_jeltz | (or decrease, as the case may be) |
| 08:24:42 | iLLf8d | ie to peruise the code? |
| 08:25:42 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: IMHO, developers should gain unlimited karma... |
| 08:25:49 | iLLf8d | lol |
| 08:25:54 | captain_proton | hehe |
| 08:26:07 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: that's the only way the system works |
| 08:26:08 | captain_proton | how about this: we're gonna have to have a significant testing phase of all the new code |
| 08:26:16 | iLLf8d | I've got a few channels on this net and one thing i've noticed is that power corrupts |
| 08:26:25 | captain_proton | so initial karma can be determined by the number and quality of bug reports |
| 08:26:26 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: if you treat developers as normal people, then the karma pool will never get big enough to make a differrence |
| 08:26:30 | vogon_jeltz | difference, even |
| 08:26:39 | iLLf8d | I remain impartial and expect my opps to do so but alot can't go figure.... |
| 08:26:44 | captain_proton | vogon_jeltz: yeah - developers aren't normal =) |
| 08:26:52 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: hehe |
| 08:27:00 | captain_proton | what do you think of the bug idea? |
| 08:27:25 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: that benefits the people who are already tied into the community and those who play a lot |
| 08:27:36 | captain_proton | *exactly* |
| 08:27:42 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: those people will group together, become an elitist group... |
| 08:27:49 | captain_proton | i doubt it |
| 08:27:51 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 08:28:00 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: and nobody else will get karma because they like playing with a privileged few |
| 08:28:03 | captain_proton | if they're willing to give their time to submit bugs, they're probably going to remain impartial |
| 08:28:07 | iLLf8d | everyone will say they have bugs up their ass |
| 08:28:11 | vogon_jeltz | ahahaha |
| 08:28:18 | captain_proton | we won't *tell* them that the karma pool will be based on it |
| 08:28:24 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: what world do you live on? |
| 08:28:26 | captain_proton | iLLf8d: notice i also said quality |
| 08:28:32 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 08:28:41 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: yes, but it only benefits the people who have no life outside of BZFlag nitpicking |
| 08:29:01 | captain_proton | vogon_jeltz: so come up with a different idea =/ |
| 08:29:02 | iLLf8d | I keep trying to break my flag habits |
| 08:29:06 | iLLf8d | taking up too much time |
| 08:29:11 | captain_proton | right now karma sounds pretty damn good to me |
| 08:29:13 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: I did... |
| 08:29:15 | iLLf8d | that would be a good features |
| 08:29:17 | captain_proton | what? |
| 08:29:18 | iLLf8d | s/features/feature |
| 08:29:19 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 08:29:25 | iLLf8d | adding in allowed times heh |
| 08:29:37 | iLLf8d | just have the servers lock me out if I play more then 2 hours a day |
| 08:29:39 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 08:29:42 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: if developers are given unlimited karma, then they will have no reason to become elitists... |
| 08:29:43 | captain_proton | iLLf8d: lol |
| 08:29:53 | captain_proton | vogon_jeltz: thats built in to my system ;) |
| 08:30:00 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: they stand nothing to gain if they don't distribute their karma |
| 08:30:26 | iLLf8d | vogons got that circular karma -> elitist discussion going on |
| 08:30:36 | captain_proton | vogon_jeltz: how about combining the two |
| 08:30:45 | iLLf8d | what came first the karma or the elitist |
| 08:30:46 | iLLf8d | ? |
| 08:30:58 | captain_proton | developers get unlimited karma (as well as the ability to adjust players' karma by any amount they choose) |
| 08:31:09 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: OK... |
| 08:31:14 | captain_proton | and the initial karma pool is seeded with the results of the bug reports |
| 08:31:28 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: uhh... whatever... |
| 08:31:36 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 08:31:37 | captain_proton | think about who will be reporting bugs - all the good/nice players :) |
| 08:31:47 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: then you still have all the people who have nothing better to do than nitpick holding onto their karma |
| 08:31:56 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: and developers with no reason to do so |
| 08:31:59 | iLLf8d | off topic I know but why when I try to play wireframe do my framerates suck? |
| 08:32:16 | vogon_jeltz | iLLf8d: because that isn't (technically) supported |
| 08:32:17 | captain_proton | the people who submit bugs now aren't greedy nitpickers |
| 08:32:17 | iLLf8d | misses starwars |
| 08:32:53 | captain_proton | most of them I've seen are either developers (ignored) or the better players |
| 08:33:02 | iLLf8d | dunno if you're old enough to know what I mean |
| 08:33:03 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 08:33:03 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: hah |
| 09:11:01 | iLL_BZFlag | that wasn't lag cap just a tank or 2 that could jump really high again |
| 09:11:07 | iLL_BZFlag | heh |
| 09:11:08 | iLL_BZFlag | fuckers |
| 09:11:18 | iLL_BZFlag | you haven't played alot lately |
| 09:11:27 | iLL_BZFlag | your server seems to be a cheaters hangout heh |
| 09:11:49 | iLL_BZFlag | ok busy killing again |
| 10:00:19 | captain_proton | iLL_BZFlag: please tell cheaters i'm going to start banning soon |
| 10:14:12 | iLL_BZFlag | heh |
| 10:14:15 | iLL_BZFlag | will try |
| 10:16:14 | iLL_BZFlag | hmm |
| 10:16:24 | iLL_BZFlag | seems there may be a bug dunno |
| 10:16:37 | iLL_BZFlag | myself and this other guy cycled (restarted) |
| 10:16:40 | iLL_BZFlag | and his tank is bubbled to me |
| 10:16:44 | iLL_BZFlag | dunno whats up with that |
| 10:16:56 | iLL_BZFlag | almost like he's driving around stealth with gm heh |
| 10:17:10 | iLL_BZFlag | if he was a cheater I doubt he'd have restarted |
| 10:17:28 | iLL_BZFlag | ah well back to the killing |
| 11:48:26 | iLL_BZFlag | goodmorning and gnight all =) |
| 12:44:43 | I_KalamBa | 2/me has quit IRC (Quit: You really belive this quit?) |
| 12:44:54 | I_KalamBa | 2has quit IRC (Quit: You really belive this quit?) |
| 12:45:02 | vogon_jeltz | uhh, no, I don't |
| 12:45:08 | vogon_jeltz | <-- BZFlag has quit ("Try BZFlag! http://BZFlag.org/ | Buy a Linux WebPhone http://TuxScreen.net/") |
| 12:45:12 | vogon_jeltz | * I_KalamBa has quit IRC (Quit: You really belive this quit?) |
| 12:45:55 | vogon_jeltz | for one thing, the symbol at the left is wrong, for another thing, it's "quit" on my client, not "quit IRC", and for a third thing, your quit message isn't in quotes |
| 14:18:28 | Chestal | hmm, is there a problem with bzfs in current CVS? |
| 14:18:44 | Chestal | I compiled it fresh out of CVS and I can't connect to it (full or game over) |
| 14:32:14 | Chestal | hmm, do I have to use -pr <portnr> ? |
| 14:32:26 | Chestal | is confused |
| 14:52:35 | Chestal | hmm, bzfs uses both printf and cout in a funny mix |
| 16:14:06 | Chestal | there seems to be a bug with rejecting playing |
| 16:14:11 | Chestal | players, even |
| 16:54:35 | captain_proton | Chestal: yes, you need -pr |
| 17:01:02 | Chestal | that seems to be vaguely documented at best |
| 17:01:11 | Chestal | was the serevr chosign a random reconnect port before? |
| 17:01:34 | Chestal | I read it that -pr is used for old clients compatability, but I guess there are no new clients yet |
| 17:01:48 | Chestal | but apart from this, the add player reject bug is for real I guess |
| 17:02:34 | Chestal | who is the guy who did all the small cvs changes lately? which nick? |
| 17:07:34 | Chestal | ducati:5155 is E5 now, let's see |
| 17:29:49 | captain_proton | i think mrapathy |