| 00:18:28 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: hi! |
| 00:18:53 | MrApathyCream | hey |
| 00:22:37 | MrApathyCream | any fez news? |
| 00:24:08 | captain_proton | not that I know of |
| 00:28:55 | MrApathyCream | BZFlag continue to beat you up last nite? :) |
| 00:29:52 | captain_proton | no not really |
| 01:27:54 | | bugger all, i dunno, mrapathycream |
| 01:27:54 | MrApathyCream | ibot, who is ZEUS_bz |
| 02:08:52 | MrApathyCream | nhey cromwell |
| 02:09:26 | cromwell | Hi MrApathyCream |
| 02:09:50 | cromwell | Has anyone else knowticed the problem I did with bzflag 1.7e4? |
| 02:10:52 | MrApathyCream | nwhat |
| 02:11:11 | cromwell | After I compiled and installed it I was not able to connect the client to the server. |
| 02:11:27 | cromwell | So I reverted to 1.7e2 |
| 02:11:37 | cromwell | I gave a full report of the problem yesterday. |
| 02:11:42 | MrApathyCream | you mean when you run your own server? |
| 02:11:47 | cromwell | nods. |
| 02:12:01 | MrApathyCream | did you need to use the -pr option on bzfs... you need to |
| 02:12:12 | cromwell | What's the -pr option do? |
| 02:12:33 | MrApathyCream | It specifies another port something like |
| 02:12:42 | MrApathyCream | bzfs -p 5156 -pr 5157 +f good |
| 02:12:52 | MrApathyCream | the client reconnects, and needs this extra port to use |
| 02:13:02 | MrApathyCream | beats the fxxx out of me why it was designed this way |
| 02:13:05 | cromwell | Please explain more verbosely. |
| 02:13:09 | cromwell | Why does it require that? |
| 02:13:21 | MrApathyCream | I don't know why it was changed. |
| 02:13:41 | cromwell | Will it be fixed so that it is automatic when the client invokes the server in future versions? |
| 02:14:29 | MrApathyCream | next version 1.8 will have completely different net code |
| 02:14:40 | MrApathyCream | so will have a whole set of new problems |
| 02:14:48 | cromwell | great, and also the turrent aiming patch so we can shoot at angles? |
| 02:14:56 | cromwell | vertical angels? |
| 02:15:05 | MrApathyCream | not sure... guessing that Riker won't want that |
| 02:15:13 | MrApathyCream | perhaps if it's optional. |
| 02:15:17 | MrApathyCream | but i'm just guessing |
| 02:17:09 | cromwell | thanks. I'll remember -pr one port number higher than -p. |
| 02:32:19 | | bugger all, i dunno, mrapathycream |
| 02:32:19 | MrApathyCream | ibot, who is? |
| 02:32:30 | | no idea, mrapathycream |
| 02:32:30 | MrApathyCream | ibot, who is cromwell? |
| 02:32:37 | | mrapathycream: i don't know |
| 02:32:37 | MrApathyCream | ibot, what do you know? |
| 02:32:57 | | A big fat guy, old enough to know not to stay up all nite playing, but does anyway. |
| 02:32:57 | MrApathyCream | ibot, mrapathycream? |
| 02:33:13 | | MrApathyCream: sorry... |
| 02:33:13 | MrApathyCream | hmmm, persistent fellow aren't you, ibot |
| 02:41:27 | MrApathyCream | hey, capn... You know you can capture a flag (and explode everyone) on the ground floor of your world? |
| 02:41:38 | MrApathyCream | as long as x and y are ok, it things it's on base!! |
| 02:41:56 | MrApathyCream | wooops |
| 02:44:08 | MrApathyCream | will fix later |
| 02:50:09 | BZFlag | that should not happen on new clients. ie: 1.7e4 and newer. |
| 02:53:05 | MrApathyCream | the carrier must be new? |
| 04:09:34 | BZFlag | carrier? elevated bases are new. |
| 06:42:33 | captain_proton | hi vogon_jeltz |
| 06:43:08 | vogon_jeltz | hi |
| 06:44:09 | captain_proton | hows the patching going? |
| 06:44:45 | vogon_jeltz | it's not |
| 06:45:00 | vogon_jeltz | picked up "The Complete Reference to Perl" today, and he'd like to start learning it |
| 06:45:08 | captain_proton | grrr |
| 06:45:13 | vogon_jeltz | haha |
| 06:45:22 | vogon_jeltz | I'll fiddle with it a little later |
| 06:45:37 | MrApathyCream | Hey capn, see my banter with BZFlag about ctf-bases in air and old clients? |
| 06:46:25 | captain_proton | no |
| 06:46:30 | captain_proton | i'll read it soon |
| 06:46:58 | MrApathyCream | your world apparently has 'two sets' of bases. One set on the first level, one set on the second |
| 06:47:06 | MrApathyCream | (just depending on what type of client user has) |
| 06:47:39 | MrApathyCream | So I see a someone grab my team flag and drive harmlessly on the ground, and uhoh I explode! |
| 06:48:33 | captain_proton | its the damn e2 clients =( |
| 06:49:08 | MrApathyCream | might want to put buildings below your bases |
| 06:49:30 | captain_proton | yuck |
| 06:49:57 | MrApathyCream | even 1.0 high ones should do it |
| 06:50:28 | MrApathyCream | of course e2 won't be able to see the bases, but should give them incentives to upgrade |
| 07:30:19 | iLLf8d | evening |
| 07:30:44 | iLLf8d | I gotta stop playing |
| 07:30:49 | iLLf8d | i'm addicted |
| 07:31:13 | iLLf8d | I bet I play at least 4 hours a day |
| 07:31:29 | iLLf8d | some days 12+ |
| 07:31:29 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 07:31:43 | iLLf8d | broken up of course for bathroom and food |
| 07:37:57 | captain_proton | wow |
| 07:38:19 | iLLf8d | the long runs don't happen often |
| 07:38:31 | iLLf8d | seems they happen a few days before I gotta pay my bills |
| 07:38:36 | iLLf8d | I find any excuse not to do them =P |
| 07:38:56 | iLLf8d | hides from his debt |
| 07:49:37 | captain_proton | heh |
| 08:05:27 | | mrapathycream: no idea |
| 08:05:27 | MrApathyCream | ibot, who is iLLf8d? |
| 08:05:56 | | CRAZY 1.8 GUY |
| 08:05:56 | MrApathyCream | ibot, who is vogon_jeltz? |
| 08:05:58 | MrApathyCream | lol |
| 08:06:49 | captain_proton | hows it going MrApathyCream? |
| 08:07:11 | MrApathyCream | just had a bash at ducati red/green |
| 08:07:43 | MrApathyCream | and i missed iLLf8d... i could sympathize |
| 08:08:19 | MrApathyCream | ill fed, i get it |
| 08:08:25 | MrApathyCream | little slow, you see |
| 08:08:49 | | 'iLLf8d' is 9% lame, MrApathyCream |
| 08:08:49 | MrApathyCream | ibot, nickometer iLLf8d |
| 08:08:58 | MrApathyCream | boo |
| 08:09:13 | captain_proton | i think it's 'ill-fated' =P |
| 08:10:11 | MrApathyCream | vogon_jeltz: around? |
| 08:10:23 | MrApathyCream | hmm, must be off deep in fez-code! |
| 08:10:25 | MrApathyCream | ... |
| 08:10:26 | MrApathyCream | ... |
| 08:10:32 | MrApathyCream | NOT |
| 08:10:48 | vogon_jeltz | haha |
| 08:11:00 | vogon_jeltz | is trying to learn Perl here |
| 08:11:44 | MrApathyCream | i knew you were here.... Just had to pester long enough.. |
| 08:11:48 | vogon_jeltz | haha |
| 08:12:17 | vogon_jeltz | I'll tinker with flagentryzone.diff some later... don't be surprised if it's horribly broken, tho |
| 08:12:37 | MrApathyCream | if it's going to be broken, horribly is the way to go |
| 08:12:43 | vogon_jeltz | you guys ever fix my typing errors? |
| 08:12:46 | captain_proton | vogon_jeltz: why did you want so much to work on this patch if you aren't going to work on it?! |
| 08:12:48 | MrApathyCream | yes |
| 08:12:54 | MrApathyCream | it compiles now |
| 08:13:05 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: because I didn't think that working with this code would be so incredibly flaky |
| 08:13:12 | MrApathyCream | look who's calling the kettle black. |
| 08:13:26 | captain_proton | hehe |
| 08:13:47 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: the patches I did before just dropped right in... it's the patches that interact with the horribly broken BZFlag framework that I can't stand |
| 08:14:52 | vogon_jeltz | it's like trying to graft a piece of gold foil to a block of Jell-O with dental floss and a crochet needle |
| 08:15:04 | captain_proton | now THAT is a topic worthy quote |
| 08:15:09 | vogon_jeltz | :) |
| 08:23:51 | vogon_jeltz | haha |
| 08:24:17 | vogon_jeltz | http://timecube.com/ <-- the most ridiculous waste of Webspace ever |
| 08:25:10 | captain_proton | vogon_jeltz: now why do i get the impression this came from somethingawful? |
| 08:25:16 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: didn't |
| 08:25:36 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: found it linked off of someone's .sig on Slashdot |
| 08:25:42 | MrApathyCream | slothes off, to find another battlefield, be back to pick up new diff file |
| 08:25:47 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 08:26:34 | captain_proton | woohoo! the spherical earth has 4 corners! |
| 08:26:57 | vogon_jeltz | yup |
| 08:27:04 | vogon_jeltz | and that'd make it a triangular pyramid |
| 08:27:17 | captain_proton | thats absolutely brilliant |
| 08:27:33 | vogon_jeltz | :P |
| 08:28:32 | captain_proton | Earth has 4 simultaneous Days |
| 08:28:32 | captain_proton | within only 1 rotation. Losing 3 |
| 08:28:32 | captain_proton | Days in each Earth rotation has |
| 08:28:32 | captain_proton | retarded your mentality to stupid |
| 08:28:32 | captain_proton | and an education of Evil. You do |
| 08:28:32 | captain_proton | not have the mind or education |
| 08:28:34 | captain_proton | to envision Nature's Time Cube. |
| 08:29:30 | captain_proton | i think that page deserves a real "fucking brilliant" label |
| 08:29:55 | vogon_jeltz | "Language is a human invention |
| 08:29:55 | vogon_jeltz | of an evil cubeless singularity." |
| 08:29:59 | vogon_jeltz | hahaha |
| 08:30:05 | vogon_jeltz | I can't get over that quote |
| 08:30:58 | vogon_jeltz | "Cubeless academia = armageddon and a barren Earth for children." |
| 08:31:31 | vogon_jeltz | it's times like these that make me wish I were at MIT so that I could go to this guy's lecture/debate and listen to the crap he spews |
| 08:31:47 | MrApathyCream | am I to early? |
| 08:31:51 | vogon_jeltz | yup |
| 08:31:53 | MrApathyCream | wonders off again |
| 08:33:03 | vogon_jeltz | "Cubes are varied and imperfect as are their human composites." |
| 08:33:12 | vogon_jeltz | that statement kills his whole astroda |
| 08:33:16 | captain_proton | hahaha |
| 08:33:17 | vogon_jeltz | s/kills/epsons/ |
| 08:33:36 | vogon_jeltz | cubes are, by definition, objects with 12 edges, 8 vertices, and 6 faces |
| 08:33:45 | vogon_jeltz | all edges being the same length |
| 08:34:01 | captain_proton | vogon_jeltz: i think this is more of a 'philosophical cube' |
| 08:34:07 | vogon_jeltz | hah |
| 08:34:10 | captain_proton | besides, his cube fits the earth of a sphere :) |
| 08:34:18 | vogon_jeltz | pffffththaha |
| 08:34:22 | vogon_jeltz | I love that bit |
| 08:34:49 | vogon_jeltz | "Universities equate doomed Towers of Babble." |
| 08:35:02 | vogon_jeltz | let's find the grammatical errors in that sentence |
| 08:35:11 | vogon_jeltz | and typographical |
| 08:35:21 | vogon_jeltz | it's "Babel", not "Babble" |
| 08:35:34 | vogon_jeltz | for something to equate something else, it has to equate it with a third thing |
| 08:35:37 | captain_proton | so we're ignoring the fact that it has no meaning? |
| 08:35:41 | vogon_jeltz | so I'm guessing he means "equal" |
| 08:35:43 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: yup :) |
| 08:36:02 | vogon_jeltz | feels like writing about this guy in his icculus.org plan |
| 08:36:56 | vogon_jeltz | "Not even a god can deny that I have squared the circle of a static Earth and cubed the Earth sphere by rotating it once to a dynamic Time or Life Cube." |
| 09:33:31 | | hmmm... now is a good time to tell you that I have 6 gigabytes of data |
| 09:33:31 | MrApathyCream | ok, now? |
| 09:34:02 | MrApathyCream | ibot, is fez in data? |
| 09:35:54 | | mrapathycream: i don't know |
| 09:35:54 | MrApathyCream | ibot, are you looking? |
| 09:36:11 | | i don't know, mrapathycream |
| 09:36:11 | MrApathyCream | ibot, what good is 6 megs if you don't know what you have? |
| 09:36:33 | vogon_jeltz | is away: TV |
| 09:36:50 | MrApathyCream | vogon_jeltz is away: FEZ |
| 09:37:14 | | Chestal was last seen on #bzflag 10 hours, 22 minutes and 37 seconds ago, saying: hi BZFlag [Fri Jan 25 23:14:37 2002] |
| 09:37:14 | MrApathyCream | ibot, seen Chestal? |
| 09:37:28 | | I haven't seen 'Necrosan', MrApathyCream |
| 09:37:28 | MrApathyCream | ibot, seen Necrosan? |
| 10:29:58 | MrApathyCream | hey lup |
| 10:30:30 | lupinator | hi ho |
| 12:33:04 | vogon_jeltz | is back (gone 02:56:30) |
| 14:04:55 | vogon_jeltz | still loves that quote |
| 14:47:07 | Chestal | hi zeus |
| 14:53:23 | Chestal | tag |
| 14:58:18 | ZEUS_bz | hey chestal |
| 15:02:31 | ZEUS_bz | played again lupi the other day |
| 15:02:39 | ZEUS_bz | looks as if you will have the team to beat |
| 15:02:44 | ZEUS_bz | in a tourney |
| 15:03:20 | Chestal | well, teams are not fixed yet. ALthough I would be happy to play with lupi and tankmann |
| 15:03:44 | Chestal | there are other possibly strong teams, e.g. the Zees |
| 15:03:52 | Chestal | or Ottoman and his friends (haevn't seen him for ages) |
| 15:03:57 | Chestal | or maybe capn+jolly+BadAss |
| 15:04:03 | Chestal | who knows |
| 15:04:24 | Chestal | I don't know if kono, blaster, zig, etc wil participate and in which teams |
| 15:04:36 | ZEUS_bz | hmmm, I can't seem to find any open players for a team |
| 15:05:09 | lupinator | didn't you and capn join? |
| 15:05:10 | Chestal | don't you know any other player personally? |
| 15:05:37 | ZEUS_bz | well capn was playing under alias with lupi |
| 15:05:47 | ZEUS_bz | he said something about jolly and I asked |
| 15:06:00 | ZEUS_bz | if they didn't have a 3rd to consider me |
| 15:06:05 | ZEUS_bz | but who knows |
| 15:06:15 | ZEUS_bz | maybe i will be spectator this time |
| 15:07:28 | Chestal | well, let's wait how it will work out |
| 15:07:30 | lupinator | as far as i understood it capn was glad to play with you |
| 15:07:48 | Chestal | capn could choose much worser teammates |
| 15:08:16 | Chestal | listens to the Lumberjack Song |
| 15:08:23 | ZEUS_bz | lol |
| 15:08:37 | vogon_jeltz | o/~ Oh, I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK... o/~ |
| 15:08:51 | ZEUS_bz | if your a lumerjack.... |
| 15:08:57 | ZEUS_bz | i'm not to sure you are OK |
| 15:10:12 | ZEUS_bz | my theme song "They're coming to take me away" |
| 16:14:12 | FORTITUDE | slaps ZEUS_bz around a bit with a large trout |
| 16:14:15 | Chestal | I guess I have to upgrade to 1.7e5 cometime |
| 16:14:35 | Chestal | I just hacked in an auto-ban on kick feature into bzfs |
| 16:14:42 | Chestal | it's now active on both ducatis |
| 16:14:58 | FORTITUDE | how does it work? |
| 16:15:29 | Chestal | whenever a player is kicked manualle via /kick the respective IP is added to a list of banned IPs |
| 16:15:43 | Chestal | this does prevent joining the server fromthis specific IP for 15 minutes |
| 16:15:48 | Chestal | after that the ban is removed automatically |
| 16:16:02 | Chestal | it's just to stop peopel from rejoinign when they get kicked |
| 16:16:22 | FORTITUDE | good, who has the kick priv on your servers? |
| 16:16:27 | lupinator | could you add a seperate ban command? sometimes you need to kick players because they crashed and still carry the flag around for example |
| 16:16:34 | Chestal | hmm |
| 16:16:37 | Chestal | good point |
| 16:16:49 | Chestal | FORTITUDE: well, me and a couple of players I told the password |
| 16:17:05 | Chestal | lupi: ok, I'll do a /ban which does kick+ban and the odl kick which just kicks? |
| 16:17:15 | FORTITUDE | boogie could use this option |
| 16:17:27 | FORTITUDE | slaps ZEUS_bz around a bit with a large trout |
| 16:17:32 | lupinator | it hink taht's good |
| 16:21:04 | Chestal | ok, done. testing |
| 16:21:58 | Chestal | seems to work so far. Let's see if ban is removed in 15 mintes |
| 16:22:49 | lupinator | heh, now i can ban myself to do some work |
| 16:23:45 | Chestal | but only for 15 minutes :-) |
| 16:24:05 | Chestal | I really need to update and clean up my patches |
| 16:24:13 | Chestal | I am losing scope of them all |
| 17:05:56 | Chestal | hi CapN |
| 17:06:11 | CapN | hi chestal, been awhile since i've been here |
| 17:06:54 | Chestal | capn: it's quiet here today |
| 17:07:45 | lupinator | hey cspn |
| 17:07:57 | CapN | hi lupi |
| 17:09:04 | Chestal | lupi; I see that you banned yourself |
| 17:09:27 | lupinator | yup, need to work |
| 17:09:51 | iLLf8d | morning |
| 17:10:06 | CapN | hi ill |
| 17:12:23 | CapN | anyone out there playing on ducati right now? |
| 17:12:55 | Chestal | both servers empty |
| 17:13:11 | Chestal | I reduced the maxmimu number of players on 5155 to 8 btw. |
| 17:13:27 | CapN | well....... lets go :) |
| 17:13:43 | Chestal | I need to do some work :-( |
| 17:13:52 | Chestal | lupi: your ban is gone |
| 17:14:08 | Chestal | maybe I'll play later |
| 17:14:31 | CapN | cool, you must be busy, working on Saturday. sorry to hear that. |
| 17:14:59 | Chestal | not that busy actually, but I was lazy during the week |
| 17:15:11 | Chestal | I have problems to get started with the work |
| 17:15:37 | CapN | aaah, a procrastinator. sounds like me. |
| 17:16:08 | CapN | has anyone seen Jolly playing lately? |
| 17:16:24 | Chestal | uh, that word sounds intellectual, let me look it up :-) |
| 17:16:29 | Chestal | haven't seen Jolly for weeks |
| 17:16:51 | CapN | sorry, i always forget english is your guys 2nd language. |
| 17:17:18 | CapN | procrastinate=delay, to wait to the last minute. |
| 17:17:42 | Chestal | no problem, I have a quick bookmark in my browser (galeon) for looking up words |
| 17:18:07 | Chestal | and I'm always happy to learn new words, although I doubt that this specific one will make it into my active vocabulary |
| 17:18:40 | CapN | :), well your english vocab. is pretty 'stellar' to begin with. |
| 17:18:54 | Chestal | tankmann is on 5155 if you like |
| 17:19:05 | CapN | cool, catch you later then. |
| 17:19:15 | Chestal | and lupi is too, I thought those guys had work to do :-) |
| 17:19:25 | CapN | aaah, come on, join!! |
| 18:09:14 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 18:29:54 | vogon_jeltz | is away: sl33p and downloading... bbl |
| 18:35:07 | iLL_BZFlag | heh |
| 20:48:54 | | mrapathycream: i haven't a clue |
| 20:48:54 | MrApathyCream | ibot, who is ill fed? |
| 20:59:32 | Chestal | argls,I cannot play anymore |
| 20:59:33 | Chestal | I shudl skip bzflag |
| 20:59:41 | Chestal | eats toomuch time anyway |
| 21:04:37 | iLLf8d | O |
| 21:04:41 | iLLf8d | lo cream |
| 21:04:44 | iLLf8d | i'm tankenstein |
| 21:09:35 | lupinator | grmpf |
| 21:09:48 | lupinator | somebody played with the google configuration |
| 21:10:06 | lupinator | now the results are redirected over a google counter |
| 21:11:37 | lupinator | huh |
| 21:11:41 | lupinator | not anymore |
| 21:11:55 | lupinator | am i confused or do they change that quickly |
| 21:24:47 | Chestal | I'm feeling better now |
| 21:24:55 | Chestal | I wasn't hitting anything half anhour ago :-| |
| 21:25:07 | Chestal | will further restrict max. number of players on5155 I guess |
| 21:26:10 | captain_proton | heh |
| 21:26:17 | lupinator | actually i think 10 players were a good number |
| 21:26:23 | Chestal | I set it to 7 now |
| 21:26:46 | Chestal | will somewhat improve lag |
| 21:27:02 | Chestal | it seemed tobe a problem when both my servers where full (eachabout 8 players) |
| 21:27:15 | Chestal | and I'm too old for that many tanks :-) |
| 21:27:32 | captain_proton | teehee |
| 21:27:40 | captain_proton | riker here wants 200 tanks in a game |
| 21:28:01 | Chestal | that's not possible without mutlicastign or other clever mesasge routing |
| 21:28:21 | captain_proton | it will be possible - just not if anybody is on 56k |
| 21:28:27 | Chestal | no, it;s not |
| 21:28:35 | captain_proton | i've seen games that can do it |
| 21:28:52 | Chestal | thosegames probably do not need to know the position of every other player |
| 21:29:10 | captain_proton | Chestal: yeah they do |
| 21:29:16 | Chestal | the sevrer might decide to only transmit position updated for players which are in fov |
| 21:29:25 | captain_proton | the thing is multicasting doesn't work well over the internet |
| 21:29:28 | Chestal | with 200 players you have a factor of 40000 |
| 21:29:33 | captain_proton | so everything will be routed through the server |
| 21:29:38 | Chestal | if using the server as mesasge relay |
| 21:29:46 | Chestal | let's say a client is ending 5 messages per second |
| 21:29:54 | Chestal | you'll have 200k message sper second sent by the server |
| 21:30:13 | Chestal | that's not possible |
| 21:30:32 | MrApathyCream | 200 players is stupid, IMHO... the goal should be 15players < 300ms lag |
| 21:30:49 | Chestal | witch 6-8 players my server is sendign an averga of 15-50 kB/s |
| 21:31:47 | Chestal | that's program data, not counting any protocol / header overhead |
| 21:31:56 | captain_proton | program data? |
| 21:32:13 | Chestal | well, I just take the data that bzfs is packaging into account |
| 21:32:17 | Chestal | no udp headers for example |
| 21:32:31 | captain_proton | udp headers are minimal |
| 21:32:42 | Chestal | as most of the bz packets are quite small, ip/udp layer adds significant overhead |
| 21:32:46 | captain_proton | but what could be done is every packet could be filled to the brim |
| 21:32:49 | Chestal | but IP header is quite big |
| 21:32:59 | captain_proton | put many player's updated positions into 1 packet |
| 21:33:28 | Chestal | that could be done. We wudl of course have to have a reasonable scheme for this to avoid unecessary delays |
| 21:33:54 | Chestal | I guess about 10-20ms additional delay would be ok |
| 21:34:12 | captain_proton | Chestal: its fairly easy actually - you just write a whole bunch of data to the socket - if it exceeds the frame size the OS will break it up |
| 21:34:14 | Chestal | I do not understand the current serevr UDP code anyway |
| 21:34:27 | Chestal | there seem to be provisions for queueing and even acknowledgements, but they're not used |
| 21:34:46 | Chestal | capt: not with UDP AFAIK |
| 21:35:02 | captain_proton | Chestal: yeah i think |
| 21:35:11 | Chestal | capt: and we woudl have to make sure that we are not exceedign a maximum tolerated delay |
| 21:35:36 | captain_proton | Chestal: the server will have to be optimized as all hell |
| 21:35:52 | Chestal | we might even send less frequent position updated to tanks which are very far from other tanks. Probably not a good idea, though |
| 21:36:17 | Chestal | I guess I'll try to fix the CTF flag return bug with a hack |
| 21:37:18 | Chestal | do you have any estimated on the average number of MsgUpdate msgs sent during the heat of battle by a single tank? |
| 21:37:46 | captain_proton | no...i suppose i could write a minimal ethereal plugin and have it count for me |
| 21:38:02 | Chestal | on your 10shot-server the msgshotbegin messages will also be a big part of the traffic I guess |
| 21:39:19 | captain_proton | yeah... |
| 21:39:32 | Chestal | getting 30kB/s on my CTF server now with 7-8 players |
| 21:39:50 | Chestal | these are 10s-averages, there might be higher peaks on the 1s scale |
| 21:44:02 | captain_proton | the main problem with bz's current netcode is that it sends lots of tiny tiny little packets |
| 21:52:01 | BZFlag | actually, that's a good idea unless you (or they) have the laser, less frequent updates would be ok. |
| 21:53:13 | lupinator | oh, hi tim |
| 21:53:20 | BZFlag | heya |
| 21:53:37 | Chestal | hi Tim, haven't cought you awake here for ages :-) |
| 21:54:01 | BZFlag | I lurk a lot, but work has been hectic |
| 21:57:55 | Chestal | do you think it would be ok to use STL containers in future versions? |
| 22:00:07 | BZFlag | if you must. |
| 22:00:58 | Chestal | it makes many things much easier |
| 22:01:14 | Chestal | e.g. I hacked a simple temporary ip-based banning into my bzfs |
| 22:01:49 | Chestal | I need to store the IPs/timestamps in some container, so a list or deque is ideal |
| 22:02:09 | Chestal | ideally, all high-level bz code should get rid of arrays |
| 22:02:53 | BZFlag | is not sure that is "ideal" though perhaps it's convienient |
| 22:03:11 | Chestal | there's far too much use of ararys and pointer arithmetic in bz |
| 22:03:43 | Chestal | it was ok when bz was developed, but most of it can be avoided nowadays with only a slight performance hit (if at all) |
| 22:04:03 | Chestal | but I guess a major redesign won't happen anyway :-) |
| 22:05:47 | BZFlag | is itching to do new net code |
| 22:06:23 | Chestal | is there anyone who fully understand the current code? :-) |
| 22:06:30 | Chestal | I mean the implemenation, not the protocol |
| 22:15:24 | captain_proton | STL is good |
| 22:15:39 | captain_proton | and its probably a lot faster than the alist crap |
| 22:16:24 | captain_proton | Chestal: we're probably going to rewrite a big portion of bzflag for 1.8(2.0?) |
| 22:18:35 | Chestal | there are a lot of issues for a rewrite |
| 22:19:04 | Chestal | we jsut have to make sure that's it's better and not worse :-) |
| 22:20:09 | captain_proton | can it help *not* being better? we're doing a (mostly) new protocol, designing everything from the ground up |
| 22:20:41 | captain_proton | after enough revision software just becomes a bunch of hacks |
| 22:21:03 | Chestal | well, but we nearly fixed all bugs now |
| 22:21:14 | captain_proton | but that doesn't mean its not just a bunch of hacks |
| 22:21:15 | Chestal | and actually the game is runnign quite smoothly |
| 22:21:18 | captain_proton | we can do it right this time |
| 22:21:30 | captain_proton | for instance, quake3 gets about 3x the framerate of bzflag |
| 22:21:32 | captain_proton | thats bad |
| 22:21:45 | Chestal | ok, I never took a look at the rendeering code |
| 22:21:54 | captain_proton | and the netcode sucks |
| 22:21:59 | Chestal | at least it works with software rendering,m quake3 can't do that |
| 22:22:06 | Chestal | the netcode is not _that_ bad |
| 22:22:24 | captain_proton | bzflag is unplayable with software rendering (imo) |
| 22:22:30 | Chestal | why? |
| 22:22:44 | Chestal | it's ok, I'm using 800x600x8bit |
| 22:22:49 | Chestal | I get 10-40fps |
| 22:22:56 | captain_proton | 10fps is unplayable for me |
| 22:23:00 | Chestal | for me also |
| 22:23:13 | Chestal | framerate drops that low when big parts of buildings are in my view |
| 22:23:19 | Chestal | e.g. when I am standing in front of a wall |
| 22:23:38 | captain_proton | thats because the fill rate in software sucks ass |
| 22:23:40 | Chestal | but at least I can sucessfuly play bz withotu hardware acceleration, it shoudlstay that way |
| 22:24:08 | captain_proton | yeah - but imagine if we also put in all the optimizations and used some of the extensions available |
| 22:24:16 | captain_proton | all as options of course |
| 22:24:25 | captain_proton | we could have a beautiful game with a high framerate |
| 22:25:18 | Chestal | I think I get about 90fps at home (Athlon 700 with G400) |
| 22:25:24 | Chestal | all options on |
| 22:25:40 | captain_proton | what resolution? |
| 22:26:02 | Chestal | 1152x864 |
| 22:26:14 | Chestal | might also be 70fps, this was a year ago |
| 22:26:24 | captain_proton | hmmm |
| 22:26:39 | captain_proton | i get about 100fps - with my card it should be about 3x that with what we're drawing |
| 22:28:10 | captain_proton | i'm gonna run back to the house to get a long telephone cord |
| 22:28:14 | captain_proton | be back in about 30 minutes |
| 22:29:37 | Chestal | ok |
| 22:29:46 | Chestal | my fps is with the default random map of course |
| 22:34:10 | lupinator | i guess quake is heavily tuned for x86. as long as y monitor can't do 300hz i don't have a problem with the bz rendering performance |
| 22:51:14 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 22:51:29 | Chestal | hehe, wreaked havoc on a newbie server with genocide flag |
| 22:51:32 | Chestal | that was fun |
| 22:51:37 | iLLf8d | lol |
| 22:51:39 | iLLf8d | nice |
| 22:51:59 | iLLf8d | I played more today |
| 22:52:07 | iLLf8d | I gotta uninstall it or something |
| 22:52:08 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 23:10:25 | captain_proton | back |
| 23:10:38 | captain_proton | lol iLLf8d |
| 23:11:19 | captain_proton | iLLf8d: can you code? |
| 23:11:46 | Chestal | finally reached +100 |
| 23:20:57 | MrApathyCream | stumbles in |
| 23:21:24 | captain_proton | hey MrApathyCream |
| 23:21:27 | MrApathyCream | hey |
| 23:21:51 | MrApathyCream | i missed Chestal! a rare event, it would seem, bummer |
| 23:22:13 | Chestal | hmm? |
| 23:22:20 | MrApathyCream | hey |
| 23:26:38 | MrApathyCream | still chattin' about the server, eh... |
| 23:26:49 | MrApathyCream | finishes reading the diatribe |
| 23:28:03 | MrApathyCream | I second Chestal's question, "is there anyone who fully understand the current code? :-) I mean the implemenation, not the protocol" |
| 23:28:37 | MrApathyCream | Even if in the mean time, we could just refactor the server, and simplify, it would be valuable. |
| 23:28:47 | MrApathyCream | Just to see what we actually have. |
| 23:33:54 | MrApathyCream | hears crickets..., and wonders off to return later |