| 00:13:24 | captain_proton | back... |
| 00:13:27 | captain_proton | HUNGRY |
| 00:13:36 | sekn | just in time, cp... |
| 00:13:54 | sekn | when for did you install pam on D's machine? |
| 00:15:01 | captain_proton | immediately after finishing the basic install (all the stuff listed on LFS) |
| 00:15:24 | captain_proton | after which you need to rebuild shadow & util-linux with pam support |
| 00:15:49 | captain_proton | is intent on filling babylonia's brand-new configs & inits with funny messages |
| 00:15:54 | captain_proton | /etc/cron.d |
| 00:15:58 | sekn | easy enough, thanks |
| 00:16:09 | captain_proton | # redhat's crappy-ass kernel doesn't have support for process accounting, nyah nyah |
| 00:18:36 | captain_proton | ack - CAFFEINE HEADACHE |
| 00:23:32 | captain_proton | gets some coffee |
| 00:48:35 | captain_proton | sekn: how goes the install? |
| 01:21:30 | captain_proton | is away: LoTR |
| 01:29:04 | vogon_jeltz | eww... |
| 01:38:11 | sekn | hmm. 7:00pm showing of the tolkien movie. I wonder what its like in that theatre? |
| 02:22:59 | vogon_jeltz | is away: verking on Paranoia Online |
| 03:15:12 | tvon | captain_proton: can you send me a copy of the decks map and whatever your server config is? |
| 03:15:33 | tvon | I want to see if I can run a server over a @home connection |
| 05:01:11 | vogon_jeltz | any of you guys see Enterprise? |
| 05:41:22 | BZFlag | yes |
| 05:41:35 | vogon_jeltz | heh... I liked the artificial gravity thing :P |
| 05:41:37 | BZFlag | you pregnant? |
| 05:41:39 | vogon_jeltz | no |
| 05:41:42 | vogon_jeltz | :) |
| 05:41:42 | BZFlag | heh |
| 05:41:49 | vogon_jeltz | I also liked the hologram of Kronos |
| 05:41:57 | vogon_jeltz | <klingon_goon> I can see my house from here! |
| 05:42:04 | BZFlag | my wife was, she thought having the guy get pregnant would be a Good Thing. |
| 05:42:08 | vogon_jeltz | heheh |
| 05:43:19 | BZFlag | should add a client option to dump a mapfile on join |
| 06:21:56 | |ks| | hey EddieNull, it is possible to open a bundle from the finder... ctl-click |
| 06:22:39 | |ks| | and when are you going to post your patch to SF? |
| 07:04:48 | tvon | ok, I know I'm beating a dead horse here...but something really needs to be done about cheating |
| 07:05:20 | vogon_jeltz | gives tvon a larger club with which to flog the dead horse |
| 07:05:25 | tvon | I was just in a game where I got GM alot (oddly often), often first flag (5 times or so) and a few people were going nuts calling me a cheater...... |
| 07:05:30 | tvon | Its ANNOYING! |
| 07:07:40 | tvon | thank you vogon_jeltz |
| 07:07:40 | tvon | :) |
| 07:07:40 | tvon | but....the biggest cheating threat, and everyone knows this...is someone who is doing it very 'slightly'...and everyone is paranoid about it and whenever someone does well (and I *was* kicking some ass thank you...97-23 or something), people start to wonder |
| 07:07:40 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 07:07:41 | tvon | heh, sorry, I'm mildly peeved |
| 07:07:41 | tvon | and I'm peeved that I could get peeved from a game |
| 07:07:45 | tvon | so that makes me doubly peeved |
| 07:07:54 | vogon_jeltz | points out that since BZFlag is released under the GPL, anyone who is cheating must release the modified code |
| 07:08:04 | tvon | lol |
| 07:08:11 | tvon | thats sweet...should file some lawsuits |
| 07:08:16 | vogon_jeltz | yeah |
| 07:08:19 | tvon | really, I think a authenticating server is the way to go... |
| 07:08:45 | tvon | you cant really stop it though...you can only boot the offenders.. |
| 07:09:23 | tvon | and the problem is the 'slight' cheats...like making your shots just a little bigger, or the tank collision area just a little smaller..or making every 1/3 shot not hit you no matter once (would be chalked up to lag) |
| 07:09:28 | tvon | so...whatever |
| 07:09:31 | tvon | I'm just whining really |
| 07:09:46 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 07:09:52 | captain_proton | is back (gone 05:48:21) |
| 07:12:16 | captain_proton | good movie... |
| 07:12:16 | tvon | I wonder if you could come up with some sort of in-between...that you would have to run along with the client |
| 07:12:16 | tvon | and make that proprietary...free but not open source |
| 07:12:17 | vogon_jeltz | hah |
| 07:12:17 | vogon_jeltz | not likely |
| 07:12:17 | tvon | there must be something |
| 07:12:17 | tvon | :) |
| 07:12:26 | vogon_jeltz | points out that we could implement MD5 checking if only we kept the MD5 secrets non-open-source |
| 07:12:32 | captain_proton | tvon: thats frank's plan with project 2501 |
| 07:12:39 | tvon | captain_proton: ah |
| 07:12:56 | vogon_jeltz | but Tim's repeatedly said that we're not closing off any part of the code |
| 07:13:06 | tvon | well, if you md5 the binary, you could always hard-code the md5 in |
| 07:13:11 | tvon | ah |
| 07:13:11 | captain_proton | wonders why "Right Hemisphere" is and why they are sending him an e-card |
| 07:13:23 | captain_proton | vogon_jeltz: i agree with him |
| 07:13:27 | tvon | heh |
| 07:14:00 | tvon | you could dump more load onto the servers...but then getting hit by mystery shots would be irritating...among other things |
| 07:14:14 | vogon_jeltz | The it produces extrent either after |
| 07:14:15 | vogon_jeltz | namusing from the current Emely amusing output in a buffer after every |
| 07:14:15 | vogon_jeltz | cou can redisplays that buffer of straight Englissociated-press it |
| 07:14:15 | vogon_jeltz | comes extremely ambling from ated-press is a command for scrambling a |
| 07:14:15 | vogon_jeltz | file of text either word by word or character by character. |
| 07:14:17 | tvon | I dunno, I'm sure this has been discussed to the bone |
| 07:14:36 | vogon_jeltz | (M-x dissociated-press in Emacs) |
| 07:14:37 | captain_proton | wtf? |
| 07:15:04 | captain_proton | tvon: not as much as you'd think - technical solutions are hard to come by |
| 07:15:11 | tvon | ic |
| 07:15:28 | captain_proton | cheating is tricky business |
| 07:15:33 | tvon | heh |
| 07:15:41 | captain_proton | the best way would be to route all traffic through the server |
| 07:15:47 | tvon | yeah |
| 07:15:54 | captain_proton | then we could fix lag and implement anti-cheating measures in one fell swoop |
| 07:15:57 | tvon | let the server decide it all |
| 07:16:16 | tvon | is that the lag....or the biggest...lag problem? clients doing the work? |
| 07:16:17 | captain_proton | problem would be that it would dramatically increase the processor and bandwidth requirements for servers |
| 07:16:25 | captain_proton | well, no |
| 07:16:42 | captain_proton | the way it fixes lag is that players screens don't update until the server ok's their movement |
| 07:17:00 | captain_proton | that way everybody is synchronized |
| 07:17:03 | tvon | ah |
| 07:17:07 | captain_proton | players with more lag just get a jumpy screen |
| 07:17:12 | vogon_jeltz | hah |
| 07:17:13 | tvon | heh, good |
| 07:17:32 | vogon_jeltz | no, they don't get a jumpy screen, they get no playability whatsoever |
| 07:18:15 | vogon_jeltz | games with much better netcode than BZFlag's are incredibly jumpy, with most Q3-engine games completely unplayable, over middling phone lines |
| 07:19:31 | vogon_jeltz | "About both the simple animatters mathemations both the simple and quare of the hypotendel of a modern major general" |
| 07:19:34 | tvon | could maybe have some sort of 'logic' parser...that monitored events in the game and spit errors when 'odd' things happend |
| 07:19:39 | tvon | thats kinda reaching..heh |
| 07:20:02 | vogon_jeltz | points out that M-x dissociated-press is hilarious |
| 07:20:18 | captain_proton | thinks vogon_jeltz needs to stop pasting |
| 07:20:21 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 07:20:28 | tvon | thinks vogon_jeltz needs to stop using emacs |
| 07:20:29 | tvon | :) |
| 07:20:43 | vogon_jeltz | doesn't usually use emacs, but this one "feature" is worth the disk space |
| 07:20:46 | tvon | snuggles vim 6.x |
| 07:20:49 | captain_proton | agrees with tvon |
| 07:20:53 | tvon | heh |
| 07:21:00 | vogon_jeltz | I personally use vim for everything non-trivial |
| 07:21:26 | captain_proton | vogon_jeltz: M-x doctor <-- emacs users need it |
| 07:21:29 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 07:21:31 | tvon | heh |
| 07:22:02 | vogon_jeltz | hah... just a stupid Eliza implementation |
| 07:22:15 | captain_proton | if you must use emacs, at least do this: M-x vip-mode |
| 07:22:31 | tvon | heh, yeah |
| 07:23:33 | vogon_jeltz | that's pretty l33yt |
| 07:23:36 | vogon_jeltz | l33t, even |
| 07:23:39 | tvon | ieeeeeee |
| 07:23:47 | tvon | your burning my eyes with that |
| 07:23:49 | tvon | :P |
| 07:23:52 | tvon | :) |
| 07:24:07 | captain_proton | everything i do is l33t :) |
| 07:24:19 | sekn | proton- any funny business with glibc? ... getting compile errors. |
| 07:24:48 | captain_proton | sekn: what?!?! |
| 07:25:06 | tvon | runs out to smoke one |
| 07:25:44 | sekn | problems with kernel headers not found... but they are there. |
| 07:26:12 | captain_proton | they're in /usr/src/linux? |
| 07:26:18 | sekn | yes |
| 07:26:38 | captain_proton | oop[s |
| 07:26:40 | captain_proton | i meant |
| 07:26:43 | captain_proton | /usr/include/linux |
| 07:27:03 | sekn | there too |
| 07:27:27 | captain_proton | give me a dirlist of the stuff in there |
| 07:28:56 | sekn | stuff like keyboard.h, kernel_stat.h, rocket.h, blah, blah |
| 07:29:11 | captain_proton | do you have /usr/include/linux/asm? |
| 07:29:54 | sekn | isn't it /usr/include/asm, separate from /usr/include/linux |
| 07:29:58 | sekn | ? |
| 07:30:25 | captain_proton | one moment |
| 07:30:37 | tvon | sekn: what distro? |
| 07:30:38 | captain_proton | hmmm yeah it is |
| 07:31:16 | sekn | tvon: building from source... |
| 07:31:25 | tvon | sekn: lfs? |
| 07:31:34 | tvon | or just from-scratch? |
| 07:31:35 | tvon | :) |
| 07:31:40 | captain_proton | basic lfs + a bunch of stuff |
| 07:31:40 | tvon | snuggles gentoo |
| 07:31:44 | tvon | ah |
| 07:32:01 | captain_proton | sekn you're using the CD we burnt from dave's /usr/src? |
| 07:32:07 | sekn | yeah- right now about half lfs |
| 07:32:34 | sekn | I'm using most of that cd. |
| 07:32:48 | captain_proton | hmmm... |
| 07:32:55 | captain_proton | odd that the kernel includes aren't right |
| 07:33:11 | captain_proton | you can try untarring the 2.4.16 source and copying them over again |
| 07:33:17 | tvon | speaking of which...gentoo dosent have the latest bz.... |
| 07:33:19 | sekn | glibc build right after you unzipped it? |
| 07:33:43 | captain_proton | yeah - be sure to build it into a separate directory |
| 07:33:57 | sekn | separate from what? |
| 07:34:01 | captain_proton | and you need to add the linuxthreads package too or you'll be most unhappy |
| 07:34:01 | tvon | the build system didnt change from e2 to e4 did it? |
| 07:34:03 | captain_proton | as in this: |
| 07:34:26 | captain_proton | mkdir glibc-build; cd glibc-build; ../glibc-2.2.4/configure <loads of options> |
| 07:34:41 | sekn | oh that's all okay |
| 07:34:59 | captain_proton | i broke david's mozilla :) |
| 07:35:03 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 07:35:32 | captain_proton | ok - i reinstall it because it was slow as all hell |
| 07:35:35 | captain_proton | it segfaults |
| 07:35:38 | captain_proton | i start rebuilding it |
| 07:35:45 | captain_proton | the segfaulting binary starts working |
| 07:35:49 | captain_proton | the build finishes |
| 07:35:55 | captain_proton | the old binary starts segfaulting again |
| 07:35:59 | captain_proton | i install the new one |
| 07:36:07 | captain_proton | Segmentation fault (core dumped) |
| 07:36:44 | captain_proton | it only works *while* building... |
| 07:37:44 | sekn | that might slow his machine down noticeably |
| 07:38:13 | captain_proton | well...kinda hard to get mozilla slower than it was previously |
| 07:39:35 | tvon | heh |
| 08:33:51 | captain_proton | is away: Epsoning the whole astroda |
| 08:35:15 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 08:36:21 | captain_proton | ;) |
| 08:39:27 | vogon_jeltz | is away: TV... bbiah |
| 09:34:40 | vogon_jeltz | is back (gone 00:55:12) |
| 09:35:53 | vogon_jeltz | is away: How many astrodas could an epsoner epson if an epsoner could epson astrodas? |
| 17:22:22 | tvon | captain_proton: there? |
| 17:26:23 | tvon | Water water everywhere, and all the boards did shrink |
| 17:26:29 | tvon | water water everywhere, and not a drop to drink |
| 17:26:31 | tvon | :P |
| 17:27:44 | tvon | I'm getting refused connection to that bologna site |
| 17:27:53 | tvon | http://jupiter.bolognia.net/ |
| 17:29:43 | tvon | and I want a copy of decks so I can massacre it and try to put it up......if thats ok with you |
| 17:30:04 | tvon | pokes captain_proton |
| 17:30:12 | tvon | guys....hes not breathing |
| 17:30:21 | tvon | kinda.....stinks too |
| 18:13:08 | Chestal | CTF is fun |
| 19:58:04 | vogon_jeltz | is back (gone 10:22:07) |
| 20:00:24 | vogon_jeltz | is away: the world's an astroda, and all the people merely epsoners |
| 20:50:26 | vogon_jeltz | is back (gone 00:50:01) |
| 22:00:01 | tvon | captain_proton: |
| 22:00:03 | tvon | there? |
| 22:00:33 | captain_proton | yeppers |
| 22:00:52 | tvon | ahhh |
| 22:00:54 | tvon | ok |
| 22:00:56 | tvon | heh |
| 22:01:12 | tvon | can/will you send me the decks map and whatever batch/sh script you use to start it/give it options? |
| 22:01:31 | tvon | and...is bzedit avail anywhere other than that bologna site? I cant connect |
| 22:01:51 | captain_proton | you can get bzedit off of bzflag CVS |
| 22:01:57 | tvon | ah, ok |
| 22:02:29 | tvon | I want to try to put up a decks-mod on my @home box..... |
| 22:02:34 | tvon | is it your map? |
| 22:04:13 | captain_proton | friend of mine's |
| 22:04:32 | tvon | mhm...can I mess with it or are you not sure about that? |
| 22:05:17 | captain_proton | not sure |
| 22:05:32 | captain_proton | besides - cable upload speed is too slow for a server with more than 2 people on it :) |
| 22:05:50 | tvon | ah..was wondering about that :) |
| 22:06:02 | tvon | heh, well I could still whup-ass being on the LAN :) |
| 22:08:13 | captain_proton | sure i can send you that stuff - email? |
| 22:09:46 | tvon | tvon@etria.org |
| 22:10:19 | tvon | thanks :) |
| 22:12:28 | captain_proton | ? |
| 22:12:37 | tvon | ah, sorry.....:) |
| 22:12:46 | tvon | was having irc client battle :) |
| 22:12:50 | tvon | other room |
| 22:17:46 | captain_proton | what client do you use? |
| 22:17:48 | tvon | dont suppose you know how high tanks can jump in bzedit units? |
| 22:17:52 | tvon | irssi |
| 22:17:57 | captain_proton | nope |
| 22:18:15 | tvon | looks pretty good btw...bzedit |
| 22:18:34 | vogon_jeltz | IIRC, it's either 20 or 32 |
| 22:18:41 | tvon | ah, thanks |
| 22:19:03 | vogon_jeltz | remembers he set the jump increments on twintowers pretty damn close to maximum jump height |
| 22:19:17 | tvon | heh |
| 22:19:18 | vogon_jeltz | especially the jump up to the main platform :) |
| 22:19:24 | tvon | yeah, that one sucks |
| 22:19:25 | tvon | hehe |
| 22:19:28 | vogon_jeltz | :) |
| 22:19:32 | tvon | always miss it and drop to the ground |
| 22:19:41 | tvon | only to get zapped by some trigger-happy freak with a lazer |
| 22:19:42 | tvon | :) |
| 22:20:18 | tvon | ? whats a link? in add->link-"add a link to the current world"? |
| 22:20:27 | vogon_jeltz | hmm : |
| 22:20:28 | vogon_jeltz | :/ |
| 22:20:44 | vogon_jeltz | IIRC, BZFlag was originally written to allow one subworld within a world |
| 22:20:51 | tvon | oh, cool |
| 22:21:01 | captain_proton | vogon_jeltz: really?!?!?! |
| 22:21:03 | vogon_jeltz | I'm not sure if it works, and I *know* it's buggy |
| 22:21:05 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: yep |
| 22:21:07 | captain_proton | that would be *SWEET* |
| 22:21:12 | tvon | yeah |
| 22:21:23 | vogon_jeltz | my guess is that is just a teleporter link-up |
| 22:21:35 | vogon_jeltz | (the add->link thing) |
| 22:21:57 | tvon | flat teleporters could be nifty |
| 22:21:57 | captain_proton | wants the insides of buildings to be bigger than the outsides |
| 22:22:02 | tvon | like, pits that were teleporters |
| 22:22:04 | tvon | :) |
| 22:22:04 | vogon_jeltz | hehe |
| 22:22:12 | tvon | yeah |
| 22:22:20 | vogon_jeltz | whispers words like *real collision detection* |
| 22:22:21 | tvon | get some alice in wonderland/dr who stuff going on |
| 22:22:25 | tvon | lol |
| 22:22:44 | captain_proton | we must do this for 1.8 :) |
| 22:23:33 | tvon | I think some 'neato' things should be added while its still in the 1.x stage...but a rewrite should be done for 2.0 |
| 22:23:35 | tvon | :) |
| 22:23:46 | vogon_jeltz | ponders making a Klein bottle map for BZFlag |
| 22:23:55 | tvon | and naturally, I have no time to contribute to such a thing...I just think 'someone' should do it |
| 22:24:13 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 22:26:08 | captain_proton | do it!!! do it! |
| 22:26:38 | vogon_jeltz | hehehe |
| 22:26:39 | tvon | and while I'm at it, the website needs to be more community-functional |
| 22:26:46 | tvon | :-P |
| 22:27:34 | tvon | something like community statistics..player rankings (kills/losses) a forum (so people dont have to use ezboard)..and stuff like that that will draw players to the site |
| 22:28:08 | tvon | and maps with spiffy screenshots that use the nobody-has-one-anymore-VRML-plugins |
| 22:28:16 | vogon_jeltz | hahaha |
| 22:28:30 | vogon_jeltz | points out that a side effect of the karma system will be community stats |
| 22:28:39 | tvon | this is true |
| 22:30:48 | tvon | I think a ficticious person needs to be invented who is responsible for updates to the code |
| 22:31:09 | tvon | then when someone asks for something, you can just say "well, Joey was supposed to take care of it a week ago, but I think he's been busy with work" |
| 22:32:00 | vogon_jeltz | hah |
| 22:32:07 | captain_proton | :) |
| 22:34:23 | captain_proton | buhbye sekn! |
| 22:34:39 | tvon | does he speak? |
| 22:34:46 | captain_proton | occasionally |
| 22:34:51 | captain_proton | right now he's a bit busy though |
| 22:34:57 | tvon | ah |
| 22:35:22 | captain_proton | reinstalling linux... |
| 22:35:29 | tvon | ahh...lfs? |
| 22:35:40 | captain_proton | somewhat |
| 22:35:46 | tvon | Gentoo! |
| 22:35:57 | captain_proton | is away: Epsoning the whole astroda |
| 22:36:10 | tvon | your going to epson yourself to death |
| 22:36:19 | captain_proton | :) |
| 22:36:23 | tvon | ah well, I need to pick up gf at metro |
| 22:36:24 | tvon | cyall |
| 22:36:25 | tvon | :) |
| 23:23:33 | captain_proton | is back (gone 00:47:35) |
| 23:24:57 | vogon_jeltz | wb |
| 23:26:10 | captain_proton | tanks |