| 07:36:33 | vogon_jeltz | is away: Saturday Night Live |
| 09:03:17 | vogon_jeltz | is back (gone 01:26:43) |
| 10:04:46 | captain_proton | hi vogon_jeltz |
| 11:26:26 | vogon_jeltz | hi |
| 11:26:35 | vogon_jeltz | is away: more Saturday Night Live |
| 13:34:09 | eks | I just tried building BZFlag for linux, and it complains about GL.h not being found |
| 13:34:25 | eks | in which lib/package is this file located? |
| 13:38:46 | Chestal | GL.h? with capitals? |
| 13:39:29 | Chestal | in shoudl be GL/gl.h ? |
| 13:39:33 | eks | ../../include/bzfgl.h:31: GL/gl.h: No such file or directory |
| 13:39:44 | Chestal | ah, ok |
| 13:39:51 | Chestal | what flavour of Linux are you using? |
| 13:40:03 | eks | Debian Linux unstable (sid) |
| 13:40:04 | Chestal | you probably must have installed soem kind of opengl dev package |
| 13:40:12 | eks | would it be provided by xlibmesa-dev ? |
| 13:40:24 | Chestal | I have /usr/include/GL/gl.h, let me check |
| 13:40:33 | Chestal | dogn a dpkg -S right now |
| 13:40:35 | Chestal | doing, even |
| 13:40:56 | Chestal | xlibmesa-dev: /usr/include/GL/gl.h |
| 13:41:15 | eks | alright |
| 13:41:24 | Chestal | I am using software rendering, though. But the dev package shoudl probably be common to all gl incarnations? |
| 13:41:54 | eks | I know I had xlibmesa, that's why I asked for xlibmesa-dev, gonna install it once my sys upgrade is done |
| 13:42:06 | eks | thx for the help |
| 13:42:22 | Chestal | I guess I shoudl try 1.7e4 |
| 13:42:37 | Chestal | I'm still using 1.7E3+personal patches here |
| 13:43:07 | eks | btw, I saw quite some strange 'hack' on Decks last nights, a guy was having shockwave, cloacking, dunno how many shield flags and was invisible on radar |
| 13:43:53 | eks | shouldn't that stuff be controlled by the server? |
| 13:52:33 | Chestal | the server is very lightweight as is |
| 13:52:46 | Chestal | some checks could be added to the server, but not very much |
| 13:53:13 | Chestal | we cannot fight cheating on the software level |
| 13:55:54 | eks | that's kinda sad, I saw a guy jumping 4 levels in one single jump |
| 13:56:52 | Chestal | the best what can be done right now is kicking people who cheat |
| 13:57:11 | Chestal | of course, one of the server admins (or trustes people) have to be on for this |
| 13:57:48 | Chestal | in a future some kind of karma system might be implemented |
| 13:58:08 | Chestal | on my server (ducati) there are very few problems with cheaters |
| 13:59:26 | Chestal | and there are a lot of cheats that cannot be detected at all |
| 13:59:43 | Chestal | at some point you'll jsut have to trust people that they do play fair |
| 13:59:45 | eks | seeing how the client does everything. yeah.. |
| 14:00:03 | eks | just looking at the sources, it seems it would be really easy to cheat on many level |
| 14:00:11 | eks | like numShots |
| 14:00:28 | eks | just bypass the World::getWorld()->getMaxShots() call and hardcode it to some value |
| 14:00:43 | Chestal | hehe, in fact that wouldn't work as you expect :-) |
| 14:00:52 | Chestal | it would crash other players' clients when you shoot |
| 14:00:58 | eks | ahah |
| 14:01:21 | Chestal | that's becuase the client allocates a shot-array for each remote player with maxshots entries |
| 14:01:38 | Chestal | you can do a lot of cheat detection in the client |
| 14:01:54 | Chestal | I am usign a simple patch to detect tank and shot speed irregularities |
| 14:02:03 | Chestal | there are some cleints out there with 15% increased speed |
| 14:02:46 | eks | if (fracOfMaxSpeed > 1.0f) fracOfMaxSpeed = 1.0f; |
| 14:02:46 | eks | else if (fracOfMaxSpeed < -0.5f) fracOfMaxSpeed = -0.5f; |
| 14:02:58 | eks | seems like I could boost my reverse speed a tad ;) |
| 14:03:06 | Chestal | yes, very easily |
| 14:03:11 | Chestal | but my client woud detect it :-) |
| 14:03:16 | eks | would it? |
| 14:03:20 | Chestal | I hope so |
| 14:03:27 | eks | eheh |
| 14:03:29 | Chestal | the backwards detection is not workign all that well |
| 14:03:40 | eks | I wonder if you would detect backward vs foward speed |
| 14:03:45 | Chestal | I try |
| 14:04:09 | eks | is maximum angle velocity checked? |
| 14:04:13 | Chestal | a simpel cheat woudl be to just ignore stealth flags so you can see stealthed flags on your radar at all times |
| 14:04:27 | Chestal | this cheat is impossible to detect automatically |
| 14:04:36 | Chestal | not by my patch |
| 14:05:13 | eks | how hard would it be to detect if a guy is cheating on oscillation overthrust? |
| 14:06:10 | eks | some guy could add a key to toggle it on/off |
| 14:10:05 | Chestal | if he just removes collision dtection with buildings not that easily |
| 14:10:14 | Chestal | you would have to do colision detection for all other tanks then |
| 14:11:10 | Chestal | I thnik the social approach is the way to go, i.e. giving trust points to other players and use authentication |
| 14:11:23 | eks | yeah, that is definately the way to go |
| 14:11:35 | eks | otherwise the server would have an extremely heavy job |
| 14:16:44 | Chestal | for me lag, is a bigger problem than cheating |
| 14:16:53 | Chestal | but I fear we cannot do very much about lag |
| 14:17:30 | eks | we could all give a dollar to the Gigabit fiber home network ;) |
| 14:18:48 | Chestal | oh well, and we would need lower latencies in the backbone |
| 14:20:03 | eks | btw, how do one change team during the game? |
| 14:23:21 | Chestal | you'll have to rejoin the server |
| 21:57:55 | vogon_jeltz | is back (gone 10:31:15) |
| 22:12:29 | captain_proton | yo vogon_jeltz |
| 22:12:32 | vogon_jeltz | hi |
| 22:12:59 | captain_proton | my nerd-mobile is really cool :) |
| 22:14:28 | vogon_jeltz | hah |
| 22:15:07 | captain_proton | our harass-count is up to 4 |
| 22:16:13 | vogon_jeltz | http://www.theonion.com/onion3744/java_programmers.html |
| 22:17:31 | vogon_jeltz | http://web.mit.edu/bunnie/www/proj/anatak/xboxmod.html |
| 22:19:51 | captain_proton | lol lol lol |
| 22:27:17 | vogon_jeltz | http://www.theonion.com/onion3744/stock-market_tips.html |
| 22:29:16 | vogon_jeltz | http://www.theonion.com/onion3744/infograph_3744.html |
| 22:30:57 | vogon_jeltz | http://www.theonion.com/onion3744/horoscopes_3744.html |
| 23:28:53 | vogon_jeltz | http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=24631&cid=2679759 |