| 00:24:54 | captain_away | is back (gone 07:43:14) |
| 02:51:51 | vogon_jeltz | hi, Tim |
| 03:19:20 | captain_proton | hi guys |
| 03:19:27 | vogon_jeltz | yo |
| 03:19:29 | vogon_jeltz | yo |
| 03:19:48 | captain_proton | see tim's wish list? |
| 03:20:15 | captain_proton | no you didn't |
| 03:20:18 | vogon_jeltz | nope |
| 03:20:19 | captain_proton | care to see tim's wish list? |
| 03:20:35 | captain_proton | (regarding network stuff) |
| 03:20:35 | vogon_jeltz | yes |
| 03:20:42 | captain_proton | 1 - better play on slow connections especially in large games. |
| 03:20:48 | captain_proton | 2 - much larger possible games, I'd like to see servers with max connections set in the hundreds. |
| 03:20:53 | captain_proton | 3 - better firewall support |
| 03:20:55 | vogon_jeltz | I'm all for that :) |
| 03:21:02 | captain_proton | 4 - UDP only connections |
| 03:21:07 | captain_proton | 5 - possible, but not required nick registration |
| 03:21:15 | captain_proton | 6 - complete handling of "unknown player" issues. so clients and servers can be forced to resync and have the same world view. |
| 03:21:25 | vogon_jeltz | I'd like that, too |
| 03:21:26 | captain_proton | thats it |
| 03:22:05 | vogon_jeltz | I think all messages with player pointers that reference null should be dropped |
| 03:22:19 | vogon_jeltz | or reference items outside of array bounds, rather |
| 03:23:48 | captain_proton | player pointers are a dumb idea anyway |
| 03:23:54 | captain_proton | it should use player ID's |
| 03:24:00 | vogon_jeltz | yep |
| 03:24:54 | captain_proton | i recently had that issue with work - message structure used pointers to check which file the message was ack'ing |
| 03:25:11 | captain_proton | my response (a little while ago) had that as null |
| 03:25:18 | captain_proton | and the win version tried to dereference it |
| 03:25:25 | vogon_jeltz | :) |
| 03:27:14 | captain_proton | oh - care to add something to the protocol |
| 03:27:16 | captain_proton | ? |
| 03:27:34 | captain_proton | or at least to your protocol suggestion? |
| 03:27:40 | vogon_jeltz | sure |
| 03:27:43 | captain_proton | versioning negotiation |
| 03:27:54 | captain_proton | have the client & server negotation what flags it will use |
| 03:28:03 | vogon_jeltz | good idea |
| 03:28:07 | captain_proton | if the client doesn't know about certain flags, it will tell the user to upgrade |
| 03:28:09 | vogon_jeltz | along the lines of Telnet? |
| 03:28:21 | captain_proton | ummm no not really |
| 03:28:43 | captain_proton | either the server tells the client the flags that it is going to use |
| 03:28:52 | captain_proton | or the client tells the server what flags it knows about |
| 03:28:58 | vogon_jeltz | yes |
| 03:29:28 | captain_proton | telnet negotiations are more about which side takes care of specific things (like echoing) |
| 03:29:50 | vogon_jeltz | but that only solves half the problem |
| 03:30:03 | captain_proton | how so? |
| 03:30:09 | vogon_jeltz | 'cause new clients can play on old servers, but not vice versa |
| 03:30:42 | vogon_jeltz | hopes that Milkshape 3D runs in Wine |
| 03:31:08 | vogon_jeltz | if an old client logs onto a new server, it'll just be told to upgrade |
| 03:31:34 | vogon_jeltz | if, however, we can work out some sort of plugin interface, we can have full version compatibility short of major networking changes |
| 03:31:55 | vogon_jeltz | because old clients can download new plugins if they want |
| 03:32:19 | vogon_jeltz | either directly from the server, or from global plugin registries |
| 03:32:31 | vogon_jeltz | but the plugin thing is something we should aim for in BZ 2.0 |
| 03:33:22 | vogon_jeltz | we could, at the least, export new flags into shared object files, and dlopen any that we need |
| 03:35:54 | captain_proton | well, the thing is that the client may be able to play on that server even if it is newer |
| 03:36:01 | captain_proton | in which case why not let it do so? |
| 03:36:19 | vogon_jeltz | true |
| 03:36:45 | vogon_jeltz | we could accomplish that with an expanded gametype bitfield |
| 03:37:14 | captain_proton | tim pointed out the true benefit of XML - readability & debuggableness |
| 03:37:46 | captain_proton | its nicer (and more expandable) to just have a conversation of <flag> tags... |
| 03:51:06 | BZFlag | the server needs to tell the client the flags that will be in use and then the client drops if it can not handle them. |
| 03:51:29 | captain_proton | yes that's what i was thinking |
| 03:51:30 | BZFlag | no code goes from server to client. |
| 03:51:45 | BZFlag | this is a support and security nightmare. |
| 03:51:49 | captain_proton | why not expand it to include buildings too? |
| 03:51:52 | captain_proton | :) |
| 03:52:21 | captain_proton | servers updating the clients? |
| 03:52:36 | BZFlag | bzflag now runs on: alpha, arm, i386, m68k, mips, mipsel, powerpc, s390, sparc and will support more soon. |
| 03:52:52 | captain_proton | that too :) |
| 03:53:22 | BZFlag | oh, I forgot ia64. ;-) no to mention different OSes on each platform. |
| 03:53:57 | BZFlag | though I haven't seen a lot of s390 players. ;-) |
| 03:54:20 | captain_proton | what is s390?? |
| 03:54:46 | BZFlag | ibm mainframe. |
| 03:55:21 | captain_proton | hmmm ok - i can see why there wouldn't be many players on it |
| 04:07:15 | captain_proton | wb |
| 04:17:04 | captain_proton | hi again |
| 04:17:12 | vogon_jeltz | hi |
| 04:17:17 | vogon_jeltz | computer froze :( |
| 04:18:15 | captain_proton | why? |
| 04:18:28 | vogon_jeltz | I don't know |
| 04:18:33 | vogon_jeltz | I think it's my devel DRI stuff |
| 04:18:39 | captain_proton | probably |
| 04:19:24 | captain_proton | i'm happy with my 2.4.9/nvidia stuff |
| 04:19:50 | vogon_jeltz | and I'm happy with my 2.4.8-pre3/prerelease-DRI stuff, except for the frequent lockups |
| 04:20:58 | captain_proton | although i'd be happier if i had remembered to build the new medusa into it |
| 04:27:56 | captain_proton | oh god... |
| 04:28:03 | captain_proton | the people at ThinkGeek have an office dog |
| 04:28:07 | captain_proton | and they named it Cisco |
| 05:01:09 | vogon_jeltz | hi, firegod |
| 05:01:10 | firegod | bzflag is taking 100% cpu, is that normal? |
| 05:01:12 | vogon_jeltz | got a BZFlag problem? |
| 05:01:15 | vogon_jeltz | yes |
| 05:01:25 | vogon_jeltz | that it? |
| 05:01:34 | firegod | heh, until I get dri going.. |
| 05:01:49 | vogon_jeltz | firegod: as long as vertical sync is off, BZ'll take 100% CPU time |
| 05:01:51 | firegod | I have all the options turned off right now. |
| 05:01:56 | firegod | hmm |
| 05:02:08 | vogon_jeltz | what vidcard? |
| 05:02:16 | firegod | anyway to switch out of a window'd bzflag game? |
| 05:02:28 | vogon_jeltz | alt+tab should work in some WMs |
| 05:02:47 | firegod | I'm on ppc.. tibook ati mobility m3 rage 128 |
| 05:02:56 | vogon_jeltz | ahh, OK |
| 05:02:57 | firegod | and enlightenment |
| 05:03:11 | vogon_jeltz | yeah, alt+tab should work |
| 05:03:16 | vogon_jeltz | uses E, too |
| 05:03:46 | firegod | ahh, OK, as in, you know why it's so slow? (: |
| 05:04:34 | firegod | yes, alt-tab not work |
| 05:04:48 | vogon_jeltz | hrm |
| 05:04:51 | firegod | I am happy that it works (: |
| 05:04:54 | vogon_jeltz | play around with the options |
| 05:05:11 | firegod | i still have fun, tho the server list doesnt always work.. |
| 05:05:13 | vogon_jeltz | firegod: if you want some help with DRI, go to #dri |
| 05:05:31 | firegod | well, it scares me (: |
| 05:05:55 | firegod | not much in the options.. |
| 05:06:05 | vogon_jeltz | hehehe |
| 05:06:15 | captain_proton | lol...i just found the BOFH DIY excuse table |
| 05:06:16 | vogon_jeltz | E is for minimalists and masochists |
| 05:06:22 | vogon_jeltz | hehehehe |
| 05:06:24 | vogon_jeltz | where? |
| 05:06:35 | captain_proton | http://bofh.ntk.net/ExcuseBoard.html |
| 05:06:47 | firegod | it doesnt take much more than gtk.. |
| 05:06:49 | firegod | which I like |
| 05:06:59 | captain_proton | its because of a deprecated resource incompatibility signal... |
| 05:07:07 | vogon_jeltz | Unreplicatable Execution Lockout |
| 05:07:10 | firegod | I'm not to keen on ximian gnome on this box.. |
| 05:07:13 | firegod | nor kde |
| 05:07:21 | captain_proton | likes ximian gnome |
| 05:07:30 | vogon_jeltz | feels like making that into a program |
| 05:07:37 | firegod | coughs bloat |
| 05:07:54 | captain_proton | you should... |
| 05:08:03 | captain_proton | that'd be a really simple program... |
| 05:08:07 | vogon_jeltz | it's a Dual-Homed Backplane NMI |
| 05:08:13 | captain_proton | maybe 10 lines at most |
| 05:08:29 | vogon_jeltz | I know... :P |
| 05:08:33 | firegod | i dont see anything about turning sync off |
| 05:08:52 | vogon_jeltz | a printf, some rands, and a char ** assignment or 3 |
| 05:09:25 | captain_proton | i'd load it from a file or three - makes it easier to expand |
| 05:19:38 | captain_proton | goodnight guys |
| 05:35:59 | firegod | hrmm |
| 08:06:05 | XEpsilon | hey |
| 08:06:54 | finalfantasydog | hey |
| 08:09:15 | XEpsilon | lol |
| 08:09:24 | finalfantasydog | ? |
| 08:09:24 | XEpsilon | this game has a flawed client-server architecutre |
| 08:09:32 | XEpsilon | i can modify a few lines in the client and always have a laser weapon |
| 08:09:35 | XEpsilon | and never need to reload |
| 08:09:44 | XEpsilon | it needs to be redesigned |
| 08:09:46 | XEpsilon | brb |
| 08:11:34 | vogon_jeltz | umm, XEpsilon, captain_proton and I are working on that right now |
| 08:11:42 | vogon_jeltz | we've known about it for months |
| 08:12:04 | vogon_jeltz | I can modify 5 lines, have de-stealth, de-cloak, permanent GM, and omni-lockin |
| 08:12:07 | vogon_jeltz | lockon, even |
| 08:12:46 | XEpsilon | hehe |
| 08:13:13 | vogon_jeltz | I modified approximately 10 lines of code and hacked the game to hell one caffeine-drenched night |
| 08:13:48 | vogon_jeltz | I had mid-jump navigation, permanent OO, shoot-while-in-buildings, permanent GM, omni-lockon, de-stealth... |
| 08:14:18 | vogon_jeltz | not to mention mid-air jumping, extreme jump height... |
| 08:14:27 | XEpsilon | yeah i saw it |
| 08:14:29 | XEpsilon | brb |
| 22:05:07 | firegod | i wish there was a 'rubberband' mode for the mouse.. useful for trackpads, let go and it returns to 'center' push to the top of th pad to go forward.. ect. |
| 22:05:22 | firegod | also, a 'turret' vs 'driver' mode would kick bootay |
| 22:05:32 | firegod | so it takes two to play the big tank |
| 22:05:48 | firegod | with up/down/left/right turret control |
| 23:25:49 | firegod | hi |