| 00:08:45 | | BZFlag was last seen on #tuxscreen 5 hours, 58 minutes and 31 seconds ago, saying: grep -rIs "main *(" * [Sat Aug 18 19:10:14 2001] |
| 00:08:45 | captain_proton | ibot, seen BZFlag? |
| 00:08:51 | BZFlag | here |
| 00:08:54 | captain_proton | hi |
| 00:09:00 | BZFlag | working on my office. |
| 00:09:14 | BZFlag | moved the server and so the list server was down for a few. |
| 00:09:18 | BZFlag | all should be ok now. |
| 00:09:19 | captain_proton | i had an idea - i don't know if sig told you about it |
| 00:09:28 | BZFlag | hit me |
| 00:09:39 | captain_proton | we were discussing protocol changes for 1.8, and he mentioned you suggested http |
| 00:10:06 | captain_proton | what about having the messages (client-server, or maybe just initial handshake/world stuff) be in xml? |
| 00:10:10 | captain_proton | oops, gotta go |
| 00:10:39 | BZFlag | well, ssl for authentication. http for list server lookup. and so http on the list server, and the other server talk over that. |
| 00:10:56 | BZFlag | sure |
| 01:12:16 | captain_pistachio | i'm back |
| 01:16:49 | captain_pistachio | you there BZFlag? |
| 02:45:53 | vogon_jeltz | hi, dog man |
| 02:46:14 | vogon_jeltz | BZFlag: any timeline for starting on 1.8? |
| 02:46:18 | captain_pistachio | dcc me your protocol thing |
| 02:47:08 | vogon_jeltz | captain_pistachio: I'm working on it as we speak |
| 02:47:20 | vogon_jeltz | so pbbbbbbt |
| 02:48:11 | captain_pistachio | i'm thinking of writing a whitepaper on why we need to have xml messaging for bzflag |
| 02:48:27 | vogon_jeltz | feel free to do that |
| 02:48:30 | captain_pistachio | loads of advantages, and with LZS compression, its nearly the same size |
| 02:49:08 | vogon_jeltz | *cheat-proofing* |
| 02:49:18 | vogon_jeltz | it can do that, too |
| 02:51:07 | captain_pistachio | my computer does nothing faster than yours does |
| 02:51:22 | vogon_jeltz | how so? |
| 02:51:29 | captain_pistachio | _start: |
| 02:51:33 | captain_pistachio | nop |
| 02:51:35 | captain_pistachio | nop |
| 02:51:35 | captain_pistachio | nop |
| 02:51:35 | captain_pistachio | nop |
| 02:51:44 | captain_pistachio | movl $0,%ebx |
| 02:51:51 | captain_pistachio | movl $1,%eax |
| 02:51:53 | vogon_jeltz | wow, that's a hell of a lot of nop's |
| 02:51:57 | captain_pistachio | int $0x80 |
| 02:52:29 | vogon_jeltz | and... ? |
| 02:52:43 | captain_pistachio | that program is nothing |
| 02:52:54 | vogon_jeltz | hehe |
| 02:52:57 | vogon_jeltz | I just got that :) |
| 02:56:31 | BZFlag | Feel free to put papers in the wiki. That's what it's for, |
| 02:58:47 | captain_pistachio | you're back! |
| 02:59:28 | vogon_jeltz | BZFlag: when can we start work on 1.8? |
| 03:00:44 | captain_pistachio | bbiab, gotta go teach my sister how to use a graphing calculator |
| 03:01:05 | vogon_jeltz | pistachio: ooh, which model? |
| 03:01:08 | vogon_jeltz | has a TI-89 |
| 03:01:13 | captain_pistachio | 89 |
| 03:01:36 | captain_pistachio | i've got one & my sister just got one because she's starting alg II, but she's refused to open it |
| 03:01:46 | vogon_jeltz | rofl |
| 03:01:58 | vogon_jeltz | I'm writing a Monopoly program for mine |
| 03:04:32 | captain_pistachio | "tomorrow" |
| 03:10:47 | captain_pistachio | so...can you send me your protocol stuff (even though its incomplete) so i can look? |
| 03:42:10 | BZFlag | vogon_jeltz: I need to wrap up everything that will work with the current and put a release out. Then I'll look at wrapping up the incompatible changes. |
| 03:42:41 | BZFlag | feel free to submit patches for either. if they break compat, just note that. |
| 03:43:00 | BZFlag | no sense in waiting for releases, hack on! ;-) |
| 03:43:02 | captain_pistachio | i think we should change most of the protocol |
| 03:43:59 | BZFlag | you think game play should be in xml too? I doubt that would be efficient, but it might make things easier to debug. |
| 03:44:14 | captain_pistachio | i'm not sure yet |
| 03:44:28 | BZFlag | as always, use the wiki. that's what it's for. |
| 03:44:29 | captain_pistachio | hey - XML would work GREAT with LZS compression! |
| 03:44:57 | BZFlag | I don't think the server wants to be encoding/decoding that many packets though. |
| 03:45:10 | captain_pistachio | maybe not the server |
| 03:45:13 | BZFlag | the idea is to keep the server (and hence the protocol) streamlined. |
| 03:45:21 | captain_pistachio | but if we did it for gameplay |
| 03:45:44 | captain_pistachio | not only could we have extensible gameplay (one of the reasons for xml), but it wouldn't be much less efficient that what is there now |
| 03:46:18 | BZFlag | xml != the only way to make things extensible. |
| 03:47:14 | captain_pistachio | how else would you do it? |
| 03:47:28 | BZFlag | the current scheme is extensible. just that the clients and servers need to know the extensions. It should be changed a bit so that client and server just discard unexpected messages. |
| 03:47:49 | captain_pistachio | yeah |
| 03:48:02 | BZFlag | xml != automatic interoperablility either. |
| 03:48:04 | captain_pistachio | but with the initial handshaking/world stuff xml makes a lot of sense |
| 03:48:36 | BZFlag | I can see where xml in list server and world info would be nice. |
| 03:48:49 | captain_pistachio | sig & i were talking earlier about world caching |
| 03:49:00 | captain_pistachio | before it sends the world, it could send a hash of the world |
| 03:49:11 | captain_pistachio | if the client has that world cached locally, it wouldn't download it |
| 03:49:18 | BZFlag | hmm.. that would be nice, just send a world md5 at signon. |
| 03:49:36 | captain_pistachio | that also avoids world-based cheating |
| 03:49:44 | BZFlag | still need to send flags probably. |
| 03:49:50 | captain_pistachio | yes of course |
| 03:50:19 | BZFlag | I'd like to know why the DL world fails so often. It never should. |
| 03:50:31 | BZFlag | or almost never anyway. |
| 03:52:26 | captain_pistachio | i think the segfault on big world thing isn't really a big world thing |
| 03:52:38 | captain_pistachio | its a problem with having more than 15 teleporters |
| 03:54:28 | finalfantasydog | hmm let me take a peek at this code |
| 03:54:28 | captain_pistachio | you there? |
| 03:54:37 | captain_pistachio | hi there dog |
| 04:00:17 | finalfantasydog | heylas |
| 04:00:44 | captain_pistachio | what code are you looking at? |
| 04:01:17 | finalfantasydog | the bzflag code |
| 04:01:30 | captain_pistachio | which part? |
| 04:01:38 | finalfantasydog | the part you guys are talking about |
| 04:04:59 | BZFlag | needs sleep. l8tr |
| 04:05:24 | captain_pistachio | goodnight |
| 04:29:14 | finalfantasydog | what are we looking at? |
| 04:29:59 | captain_pistachio | we weren't really looking at anything...there are just some annoying bugs related to downloading the world |
| 04:38:51 | finalfantasydog | okay my c++ is horrible |
| 04:39:28 | captain_pistachio | the bzflag code is horrible |
| 04:40:18 | finalfantasydog | wow, is all of this even space correctly? |
| 04:40:50 | captain_pistachio | doubt it |
| 06:01:09 | finalfantasydog | night |
| 06:01:19 | captain_pistachio | goodnight |