| 19:02:05 | hh | hey |
| 19:02:24 | hh | BZFlag: saw you droped by #ogle before.. |
| 19:11:23 | BZFlag | yep. |
| 19:11:38 | BZFlag | can I help you? |
| 19:12:49 | hh | well.. no.. I thought that I migth perhaps help you. |
| 19:12:58 | hh | I'm one of the ogle developers |
| 19:13:15 | BZFlag | cool. |
| 19:13:50 | BZFlag | well you saw the logs then. I work for Lineo and consult on the forthcoming TVLinuxAlliance specifications. |
| 19:14:08 | BZFlag | there are a number of different vendors all asking the same question |
| 19:14:19 | BZFlag | where do we get licensed dvd code. |
| 19:14:26 | hh | yep, read them but I'd have to say that things do look a bit bleak for geting a 'leagal' player.. |
| 19:14:50 | hh | the liciensing seem to be a very complicated thing.. |
| 19:14:50 | BZFlag | Lineo is reviewing different options which may include doing the certification ourselves. ($100k) |
| 19:15:17 | BZFlag | agreed |
| 19:15:23 | hh | I'd go with some smallvendor that has already doen a DVD player for some embeded target |
| 19:15:57 | hh | paying the licinse fees and such would invove lots of money, but also _per copy_ fees |
| 19:15:59 | BZFlag | a linux player? or just another consumer device? |
| 19:16:59 | hh | well.. linux vs. consumer device, that is a good quiestion I'd guess that most of them have probably gone with a comercial embeded OS and that might ideed casue trouble fro you... |
| 19:17:18 | BZFlag | what if there was no css code included. ie: the player handles un-encrypted dvds out of the box, but you need to dl libcss from someplace to get full playback? |
| 19:18:02 | BZFlag | yes, so far most consumer device folk we have talked to have messy implementations where the player is the OS. |
| 19:18:27 | hh | BZFlag: taht is the way olge works now. I.e you can dl and install all part except for libcss and it will work as long as you don't try to play a encrypted (i.e CSS protected DVD) |
| 19:18:54 | BZFlag | and what are the licensing implications then? audio codecs etc. |
| 19:19:02 | hh | BZFlag: we do dlopen of libcss at run time to se if we have it and if so use it.. |
| 19:19:32 | hh | yes both audio codes and the mpeg2 video stuff have pantens that you must licens |
| 19:19:45 | BZFlag | ugh. |
| 19:19:57 | hh | yupp |
| 19:20:17 | hh | isn't it a lovely works with all theses patents... |
| 19:20:41 | BZFlag | are they also accessed with dlopens? ie are there any formats that do not require licensing that can always be there? |
| 19:20:57 | BZFlag | VCD or some such? |
| 19:21:00 | hh | so for now everyone is just happy that no one has gotten a thretend over this.. |
| 19:21:26 | hh | well.. the video is always mpeg2 (for DVDs) and must be licinsed |
| 19:21:26 | BZFlag | yes, but is anyone redistributing the player? that raises the visibility significantly. |
| 19:21:48 | hh | the sound may be ac3, dts, normal pcm and mpeg audio |
| 19:22:07 | hh | all but pcm must be licinsed.. and most DVD only have ac3 |
| 19:22:11 | BZFlag | ac2 == dolby digital? |
| 19:22:23 | hh | ac3 == dolby digital, yes |
| 19:22:59 | BZFlag | do you know if any or all of the licenses can be "bought out" so that there is no per unit royalty? |
| 19:24:02 | hh | not sure... mpegla.com, I think (or perhaps .org) has some.. |
| 19:24:17 | hh | dolby digital has lots on their web pages too... |
| 19:26:20 | hh | trying to rembeber the name of some people that had some thoughs about doing this earlier... |
| 19:35:59 | hh | ah.. LsDVD |
| 19:36:00 | hh | http://www.csh.rit.edu/projects/lsdvd/devplans.shtml |
| 19:36:23 | hh | might not be able to trust everything there and it's a bit dataed by now.. |
| 19:36:51 | hh | oh and convergence (www.linuxtv.org) is apparently doing something in this area |
| 19:41:39 | BZFlag | yes, we are talking to convergence. |
| 19:42:20 | hh | ok.. I'd love to work on this.. (and have been) but it's a dificult situation |
| 19:43:25 | hh | since DVD specification is requierd for licensing css (for instance) and the DVD specification mandated a NDA and lots of other stuff like macrovision.. |
| 19:43:48 | hh | but if you're talking to convergace then they will have much better knoledge than me |
| 19:45:00 | BZFlag | well, we are at the feasibility stage now. If we decide to build one, we will likely look for people to hire with the tech skills. ;-) Could be a while before the decision is even made though. |
| 19:47:12 | hh | hehe.. sure.. and I'm not in the states or anything either so.. :) |
| 19:48:19 | hh | you'll have to talk to a bunch of lawers I guess.. haveing a version with licensed mpeg2+ac3 decoders that hapen to hadle DVD navigation will probably be possible.. |
| 19:49:24 | hh | handling the CSS stuff will be difficult.. no way to do that without geting caught in the whole DeCSS affair.. |
| 19:50:32 | hh | don't know your constrints but paying per copy licenses might be ok if the software is only bundle with consumber devices.. |
| 19:51:34 | hh | geting real supported DVD navigation (that is not based on RE work) and GLP that will be close to imposible |
| 19:52:37 | hh | it would take a huge change in the DVD forums normal (up until now) licens |
| 20:14:05 | | 2 |
| 20:14:05 | BZFlag | ibot: 1+1? |
| 20:15:04 | hh | hard split there.. and the 3 quick leav/join.. enough to make one dissy :) |
| 20:15:12 | BZFlag | can't see ibot, but he knows he's here. |
| 20:17:38 | | 2 |
| 20:17:38 | BZFlag | ibot: 1+1? |
| 20:19:03 | BZFlag | wow that lagged. 1 minute 8 seconds to reply. |
| 20:20:07 | hh | ping or the ibot: 1+1 thing? |
| 20:20:20 | hh | got both a almost the same time.. |
| 20:35:34 | BZFlag | the irc replies to me are lagging.. I did the 1+1 thing and saw in ibot's logs (another box) that he replied at once, but it took another minute to get to me. |
| 20:35:41 | | thanks BZFlag :) |
| 20:35:41 | BZFlag | ibot: botsnack? |
| 20:35:58 | BZFlag | much better now. that only took 1 second. |
| 20:37:18 | hh | :) |
| 23:12:44 | bzfrank | hi |