| 00:02.36 | *** join/#brlcad dreeves (n=dreeves@67.130.253.14) |
| 00:11.26 | starseeker | where was that website with the gear stuff (that I couldn't access yesterday?) |
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| 01:03.28 | *** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.130.28) |
| 01:10.52 | brlcad | dreeves: yes |
| 01:11.23 | brlcad | starseeker: pictures are worth a thousand words and probably ten thousand equations |
| 01:11.28 | brlcad | (to most people) |
| 01:11.50 | starseeker | ok, I'll give it my best shot |
| 01:12.14 | brlcad | doesn't have to be comprehensive, just a few illustrative examples |
| 01:12.25 | starseeker | nods |
| 01:12.37 | brlcad | or maybe a table that shows two variables |
| 01:12.56 | starseeker | what I need to do is provide the tools (intellectual, if not code) to allow people to make use of overall length as a measurement |
| 01:13.14 | brlcad | e.g., http://local.wasp.uwa.edu.au/~pbourke/geometry/superellipse/superellipse11.gif |
| 01:13.25 | brlcad | speaks wonders with a simple table |
| 01:13.31 | starseeker | converting length into something useful for a coil isn't so simple |
| 01:13.56 | starseeker | ah, yes |
| 01:14.04 | starseeker | 's situation is a bit different |
| 01:15.45 | starseeker | I need to teach people how to compute some other input value based on length (unless I just skip that, but since overall length is one of the simplest measurements a modeler can make for a coil I hate to ignore it, too...) |
| 01:15.54 | brlcad | similarly, http://cgkit.sourceforge.net/tutorials/materials/specular.jpg |
| 01:16.12 | starseeker | nods |
| 01:16.21 | brlcad | of course it's different, the point is that you can pack a lot of data in by picking two useful variables |
| 01:16.21 | starseeker | I actually do that for most of the coil settings :-) |
| 01:16.44 | madant | wakes up and realises he has a lot to read :D |
| 01:16.47 | starseeker | yes, but it's worse than that - there are two different equations that have to be used |
| 01:17.01 | starseeker | based on certain geometric behaviors |
| 01:17.01 | brlcad | i'm sure it is |
| 01:17.08 | brlcad | but in the end, you're making a spring |
| 01:17.12 | starseeker | sure |
| 01:17.15 | brlcad | so you show a few tables |
| 01:17.30 | brlcad | they don't need to know every shape ever possible |
| 01:17.42 | starseeker | oh, I know |
| 01:18.02 | starseeker | but using length to calculate parameters is something else again |
| 01:18.13 | starseeker | can't just show examples |
| 01:18.17 | starseeker | need to outline method |
| 01:18.28 | brlcad | e.g. the superellipse table has a dozen other parameters that you could tweak that would make things even more complicated -- they're just not nearly as useful and the extra information really just confuses the core explanation |
| 01:19.58 | starseeker | nods |
| 01:20.26 | starseeker | Realistically, I don't HAVE to say a word about overall length - it's not an input parameter |
| 01:20.41 | starseeker | could just leave it up to the modeller |
| 01:22.19 | starseeker | was just trying to anticipate difficulties that would come up in real world use |
| 01:41.03 | brlcad | you could certainly make it an input parameter as that's probably very true :) |
| 01:42.12 | brlcad | to me a coil's basic properties are it's overall length, radius, wire thickness, and number of windings or density of windings |
| 01:43.05 | brlcad | if the user has to perform a bunch of calculations to arrive at their desired length, that sounds like something prime for the application to handle for them |
| 01:45.35 | brlcad | otherwise my basic point regarding the diagrams was that you should just enough to get the gist of what it is and does, not necessarily explain every or even most of the details -- that can be captured in the writeup and (if needed) the equations themselves |
| 01:51.07 | starseeker | nods |
| 01:53.16 | starseeker | the problem with length as an input parameter is it makes ONE of several other parameters unnecessary, but not uniquely - e.g. length + pitch + wire diameter will settle helix angle (in most cases, there is actually one corner case with two solutions) but by the same token length + wire diameter + helix angle will settle pitch. I'm still not sure how to automagically use length "correctly" to solve for the right value |
| 01:53.43 | starseeker | short of a lot of special case programming (yuck) |
| 02:01.37 | brlcad | you allow the unnecessary parameters and just do a validation check on your arguments |
| 02:02.36 | brlcad | think of how rt will let you specify an image -- you can specify a square image size, width, height, aspect ratio, cell size, and a few other things .. and specifying any of those often makes any of the others unnecessary |
| 02:02.53 | brlcad | but it still lets you, and deals with the calcs and validation |
| 02:03.07 | brlcad | well pseudo validation, last one wins iirc |
| 02:03.36 | brlcad | yep, last one |
| 02:03.50 | brlcad | (e.g., rt -s1024 -n512 -w512) |
| 02:32.02 | *** join/#brlcad madant_ (n=madant@117.196.136.61) |
| 02:43.41 | starseeker | brlcad: ok, so I would put in the equations for each parameter deducable from length, solve whichever ones I could based on inputs, and if one input was "missing" that length is supposed to substitute for that calculation would succeed and would replace the default? |
| 02:44.40 | starseeker | supposes he might as well, since he needs to add the ability to do left and right handed coiling anyway |
| 02:44.49 | brlcad | you have a set of parameters you "need" to calculate |
| 02:44.56 | brlcad | to calculate the coil, that is |
| 02:45.07 | starseeker | yes |
| 02:45.15 | brlcad | presumably there is some default if you just run the program? |
| 02:45.20 | brlcad | (should be) |
| 02:45.22 | starseeker | yes |
| 02:45.36 | brlcad | then each arg adjusts the defaults however it makes sense |
| 02:45.45 | brlcad | sort of like an overlay |
| 02:46.11 | brlcad | so if given -l 100 .. all those inputs are adjusted however makes sense for -l 100 to work |
| 02:46.27 | starseeker | there isn't a unique solution to that |
| 02:46.40 | brlcad | then if followed by some other arg -coil_density 1.0, whatever, even something that conflicts, it readjusts |
| 02:46.52 | brlcad | but there is a consistent solution I bet |
| 02:47.03 | starseeker | consistent? |
| 02:47.07 | brlcad | 'valid' |
| 02:47.12 | starseeker | sure, several |
| 02:47.31 | brlcad | so they've underspecified, but it's enough to work with |
| 02:47.36 | brlcad | technically the defaults are underspecified |
| 02:48.24 | madant_ | needs a faster computer :D |
| 02:48.59 | starseeker | yes, but what is the "preferred" way to adjust? reduce number of coils and tweak wire diameter? change the helix angle? |
| 02:49.16 | starseeker | I suspect the answer to that is "yes", which is where the problem comes in |
| 02:50.23 | starseeker | If I underspecify by one input parameter and add length, I expect length to be solved for the missing parameter |
| 02:50.32 | starseeker | if I underspecify by two, it gets less clear |
| 02:50.56 | starseeker | underspecifying by one is a fair bit of work (solve the length equations for all variables) but doable |
| 02:51.09 | starseeker | the second involves "picking something" |
| 02:51.52 | starseeker | presumably the default would usually be zero helix angle, I guess... |
| 02:52.07 | starseeker | maybe that could be the "last assumption to go..." |
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| 02:57.24 | brlcad | 'yes' |
| 03:02.55 | brlcad | like I said, I'd expect the dominant params be length+coil_diameter+wire_diameter+#coils if I was making one |
| 03:03.20 | brlcad | but then I don't have a need to make coils repeatedly as a modeling task, that's just my common sean expectation |
| 03:03.53 | brlcad | pitch to me is just a specialization that replaces #coils |
| 03:04.16 | brlcad | and pitch+#coils replaces length |
| 03:04.35 | starseeker | pitch is spacing between coils |
| 03:04.51 | brlcad | yeah |
| 03:04.55 | starseeker | well, ok |
| 03:05.07 | starseeker | stores those to use as defaults... |
| 03:05.39 | brlcad | internally maybe you turn everything into just #coils and pitch |
| 03:05.54 | starseeker | no, helix angle is distinct |
| 03:05.59 | starseeker | as is wire diameter |
| 03:06.30 | brlcad | i mean per that example if that was your dependency matrix, you find *some* set that you use internally |
| 03:06.37 | starseeker | oh |
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| 03:07.09 | brlcad | e.g., rt doesn't store -s1024 anywhere |
| 03:07.31 | brlcad | it just keeps a buffer and a width and height |
| 03:07.36 | starseeker | oh, sure |
| 03:07.56 | starseeker | brlcad: I take it you haven't played with the existing coil tool much? :-) |
| 03:08.04 | brlcad | so it might get a little tricky, but it should be doable given you can make a default coil |
| 03:08.28 | brlcad | i don't have to play with the tool to know how argument handling should be able to work :) |
| 03:08.33 | starseeker | heh |
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| 03:08.41 | brlcad | even for outright conflicting args, it doesn't matter |
| 03:09.14 | starseeker | as a user might prefer a warning if he feeds in conflicting args... |
| 03:09.33 | brlcad | always a good thing |
| 03:09.41 | brlcad | could even halt |
| 03:09.51 | starseeker | nods |
| 03:09.59 | brlcad | s/could/should/ |
| 03:10.22 | brlcad | just not requisite, not much halts as it is |
| 03:10.44 | starseeker | sighs - nevermind about proofreading, looks like it will be a while (more functionality to add first) |
| 03:11.32 | starseeker | starts visualizing how to deal with length issues... hmm... |
| 03:12.07 | starseeker | ah well, low priority anyway |
| 03:12.21 | starseeker | brlcad: thanks for the feedback/help :-) |
| 03:12.39 | brlcad | that's why it's often/usually good to implement the interface/api/args before the implementation so you can think about it from the user's perspective before getting bogged down in what the implemenation needs :) |
| 03:13.02 | brlcad | otherwise you just end up exposing implementation detail to the user and that makes them go 'wtf' |
| 03:13.16 | brlcad | dsp anyone.. wtf |
| 03:13.35 | starseeker | got scared off initially by all the math needed to handle length ;-) Existing parameters are actually based on how springs are "usually" defined |
| 03:13.51 | starseeker | just happens that length is the easy one to <measure> |
| 03:13.55 | starseeker | chuckles at dsp |
| 03:14.34 | brlcad | well, there's usually defined by *spring-makers* and by *consumers* of spring-makers .. which are rarely the same |
| 03:14.57 | starseeker | nods |
| 03:16.48 | starseeker | actually, for springs with severe helical angle length can be a bit tricky too, come to think of it... |
| 03:17.57 | brlcad | kinda what I'm referring to: http://www.lovells.com.au/catalogue/2004-08_catalogue_4x4_springs_v2.pdf |
| 03:18.03 | brlcad | page 4 |
| 03:18.24 | brlcad | that's how I think of springs, how I'd be trying to specify one |
| 03:19.30 | dreeves | So is the nurbs implementation displaying the wireframe correctly now? |
| 03:19.42 | brlcad | it should be |
| 03:19.49 | brlcad | just it won't show trimmed surfaces |
| 03:20.03 | brlcad | it'll show that outer extent, maybe the trimming curve itself |
| 03:20.14 | brlcad | (too) |
| 03:20.37 | starseeker | brlcad: thank you for that link, that's very helpful |
| 03:21.31 | brlcad | dreeves: it doesn't tessellate the surfaces yet, just the extents, if that's what you mean by correctly |
| 03:21.52 | brlcad | but otherwise, yeah - I don't know of any actual "problem" with what it shows other than being simple |
| 03:22.02 | dreeves | yes that is what I was asking |
| 03:22.03 | brlcad | raytracing is where there are problems |
| 03:22.38 | brlcad | eek, I gotta catch some z's before practice |
| 03:22.39 | dreeves | right but I'm just trying to get an idea of what I'm shooting for :) |
| 03:23.00 | dreeves | practice for what? |
| 03:24.37 | brlcad | dreeves: if you want to start with a tangible issue on the current code base, you could look at breplicator or one of the other two cubes, take any corner point of the cube and pull it inward to make two of the faces non-planar |
| 03:24.51 | brlcad | that's a relatively specific bug that will probably lead deep down the rabbit hole |
| 03:24.58 | brlcad | practice for crew |
| 03:25.01 | brlcad | rows |
| 03:25.23 | starseeker | just not gently down a stream ;-) |
| 03:26.32 | brlcad | mm, yeah.. kinda windy tomorrow and cold |
| 03:26.53 | brlcad | welp, ta ta |
| 03:26.59 | starseeker | later - have fun! |
| 03:28.39 | double-yang | I'm a student who wants to apply GSoC project. |
| 03:29.09 | double-yang | May I ask someting about that? |
| 03:29.27 | madant_ | hi double-yang |
| 03:29.34 | brlcad | starseeker: http://www.vanel.com/compression.php?lang=english |
| 03:29.44 | madant_ | what do you have in mind ? |
| 03:29.47 | brlcad | yummy, http://www.vanel.com/compression-conical.php?lang=english |
| 03:30.25 | brlcad | welcome double-yang, glad to hear it, gotta run, have fun talking to the other guys ;) |
| 03:30.43 | double-yang | I'm considering |
| 03:31.23 | double-yang | @brlcad:Thanks |
| 03:33.37 | madant_ | double-yang: any specific ideas on what you would liek to work on ? |
| 03:34.36 | double-yang | @brlcad:I saw you assorted those idears inyo two parts, High Priority and Additional |
| 03:34.38 | madant_ | s/liek/like |
| 03:35.51 | double-yang | madant_:Implicit to Explicit boundary representation support |
| 03:37.36 | double-yang | madant_:I'm interest in this one |
| 03:38.44 | double-yang | madant_:What do you prefer? |
| 03:39.11 | madant_ | sorry didn't get you |
| 03:39.54 | double-yang | http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009/Project_Ideas |
| 03:40.34 | madant_ | :) hehe.. oh.. i have been working with brl-cad since last year on parametrics and constraints :) |
| 03:40.56 | double-yang | Oh,sorry. |
| 03:41.09 | madant_ | I wrote 1.7 :) |
| 03:41.23 | double-yang | Great! |
| 03:41.36 | madant_ | not at all .. so have you thought about how you would go about the project ? |
| 03:43.11 | madant_ | the existing brep files give a pretty good idea about the work involved |
| 03:43.29 | double-yang | I'm a student in physics department |
| 03:43.42 | madant_ | ah kewl. which univ. |
| 03:44.20 | double-yang | Northwest Univ in China |
| 03:45.41 | madant_ | hehe nice :) ä½ å¥½é©¬ |
| 03:46.41 | double-yang | ÄãÖÐÎIJ»´í:) |
| 03:47.52 | madant_ | argh.. something wrong with encoding.. am only getting ÄãÖÐÎIJ»´í:) |
| 03:48.03 | madant_ | nyways poolio is the brep guy :) |
| 03:50.57 | double-yang | ÄãÖÐÎIJ»´í means your Chinese is good :) |
| 03:52.55 | double-yang | madant_:So are you a mentor of the GSoC ? |
| 03:53.40 | madant_ | double-yang: hehe.. i meant i am only getting some weird roman charaters only instead of the chinese logographs.. must be something to do with my client settings |
| 03:53.50 | madant_ | double-yang: and nope i am not a mentor :) |
| 03:54.22 | madant_ | is very much interested in Physics albeit an architect by education :D |
| 03:54.45 | double-yang | :) |
| 03:55.00 | madant_ | is still in an earnest approach to finishing the 10 volumes of Landau's course of theoretical physics |
| 03:55.50 | madant_ | double-yang: have u already built brl-cad ? |
| 03:56.04 | madant_ | and did u check out the brep code for ell, nmg etc ? |
| 03:56.56 | double-yang | madant_:No, actually. |
| 03:57.15 | double-yang | I'm a new guy here |
| 03:58.19 | *** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.38) |
| 03:58.53 | double-yang | You know that Open Source is not very popular in my nation. |
| 03:59.01 | madant_ | no problem :) everybody is new at some point .. |
| 03:59.21 | madant_ | you could check out the subversion repository and tinker around :) |
| 03:59.27 | madant_ | http://brlcad.org/wiki/SVN |
| 04:00.41 | double-yang | Thanks for your link. |
| 04:02.08 | madant_ | you can also view the code online at http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/ |
| 04:03.32 | madant_ | the primitives are here.. as mentioned in the wiki some of them already have brep http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ |
| 04:05.11 | double-yang | These will be a great of help!:) |
| 04:08.29 | double-yang | It's really a exciting experience to chat with all of you. |
| 04:10.18 | madant_ | double-yang: our pleasure.. do come back and tell us your brl-cad building experience and further adventures |
| 04:10.49 | double-yang | madant_:Sure.:) |
| 04:12.17 | double-yang | madant_:It's time for lunch.I have to go. |
| 04:13.21 | madant_ | bye double-yang |
| 04:13.38 | double-yang | madant_:Nice to talking to you.Bye.:) |
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| 06:25.20 | anirudh | hi |
| 06:25.28 | anirudh | any mentors around here |
| 06:25.39 | anirudh | for google soc |
| 06:29.20 | anirudh | hey |
| 06:29.24 | anirudh | anyone around ? |
| 06:40.52 | yukonbob | hey, cadheads |
| 06:41.03 | yukonbob | anirudh: what's your question? |
| 06:42.07 | anirudh | hey |
| 06:42.15 | anirudh | i want to propose an idea |
| 06:42.30 | anirudh | its not on the list, its simple |
| 06:42.53 | anirudh | CAD manipulations using Multitouch gestures |
| 06:43.14 | anirudh | can i do a proposal based on something like that :) |
| 06:48.12 | anirudh | anyone around |
| 06:48.38 | yukonbob | sounds like you're proposing a new input device and driver and complete suppport in the application... |
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| 06:49.24 | yukonbob | ;) |
| 06:49.27 | anirudh | no |
| 06:49.37 | yukonbob | go on... |
| 06:49.45 | anirudh | can you copy paste the last chat u said :P i got dc |
| 06:50.16 | yukonbob | I was saying that it sounds like you're proposing a new device, driver and BRL-CAD interface... |
| 06:50.43 | yukonbob | remember that the project ought to be achievable in the timeframe proposed. |
| 06:51.06 | anirudh | not a device exactly, a lot of people have alredy built their DIY Multitouch tables |
| 06:51.17 | anirudh | have you seen touchlib ? |
| 06:51.25 | anirudh | its an open source tracker for touches |
| 06:51.50 | yukonbob | I've heard of it, not programmed against it... |
| 06:52.17 | yukonbob | do you have experience programming against touchlib, and have a working device? |
| 06:52.19 | anirudh | the TUIO protocol it has, i have to send TUIO data on port 3000 and BRLCAD will listen to that data |
| 06:52.22 | anirudh | yeah |
| 06:52.30 | anirudh | www.sparsh-i.com |
| 06:52.43 | anirudh | check out the video i've put up of my device :) |
| 06:53.13 | anirudh | CAD manipulations using multitouch would add a lot of functionality and ease the interaction process |
| 06:53.27 | anirudh | the way people interact with CAD |
| 06:53.39 | anirudh | it'll ease the process, i believe ;) |
| 06:54.00 | yukonbob | I'm imagining easing spinning/flipping a la Jeff Hahn |
| 06:54.14 | yukonbob | for wireframe static views.... |
| 06:54.17 | anirudh | yeah |
| 06:54.17 | anirudh | right :) |
| 06:54.30 | anirudh | that's precise , but it wasnt CAD i believe |
| 06:55.21 | yukonbob | the vids I've seen were sorting photographs, navigating blobs of "Lava lamp" goo ;) |
| 06:56.18 | yukonbob | anirudh: do you have a direct link to the video, so I can view via mplayer (/me doesn't have flash-enabled ffox) |
| 06:56.19 | anirudh | yeah |
| 06:56.20 | anirudh | thats for the eye candy :P |
| 06:56.20 | anirudh | I plan drawing based on Gestures |
| 06:57.18 | anirudh | its uploaded on vimeo |
| 06:57.18 | anirudh | can you access that ? |
| 06:57.22 | anirudh | wait |
| 06:58.17 | anirudh | flv works ? |
| 06:58.22 | anirudh | http://www.vimeo.com/moogaloop/play/clip:2953423/d1d4af0d0fe684209fb3beb8b344e662/1237564800/video.flv?q= |
| 06:58.40 | anirudh | i got a direct link via keepvid site, it allows direct downloading of videos |
| 06:58.47 | anirudh | yukon you around ? |
| 06:59.18 | yukonbob | y |
| 06:59.36 | yukonbob | I think your paste was truncated... |
| 06:59.54 | anirudh | didnt it work ? |
| 07:00.26 | anirudh | http://www.vimeo.com/moogaloop/play/clip:2953423/d1d4af0d0fe684209fb3beb8b344e662/1237564800/video.flv |
| 07:00.35 | anirudh | see it now, i hope it should work ! |
| 07:00.36 | anirudh | :) |
| 07:01.10 | anirudh | see the DJ app on multitouch, music mixing we did on the touch surface |
| 07:02.48 | anirudh | now a days making MT pads and tables isnt hard with so much DIY info around... Dell's XT laptop and HP Touchsmart are alredy popular, Apple will be releasing all its screens soon based on Multitouch |
| 07:03.17 | yukonbob | hrmm... no dice (via curl) |
| 07:03.30 | anirudh | ?? |
| 07:03.39 | yukonbob | better via ffox... |
| 07:03.41 | yukonbob | 1 sec |
| 07:03.47 | anirudh | yep :P |
| 07:11.22 | yukonbob | nice |
| 07:11.27 | yukonbob | all your own footage? |
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| 07:18.30 | yukonbob | needs to hit hay --- anirudh, I'd post the idea to the wiki, and if you have the cycles, don't hesitate to begin a proof-of-concept or some other demo |
| 07:19.23 | yukonbob | see: http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas |
| 07:19.41 | anirudh | yeah |
| 07:19.51 | anirudh | its me and my classmates on the video :) |
| 07:19.59 | yukonbob | nice indeed. |
| 07:20.20 | anirudh | hey, also give me ur google talk id , if u use that |
| 07:20.40 | yukonbob | don't have one atm... |
| 07:21.23 | yukonbob | I need to hit hay (work tomorrow), but don't hesitate to talk to me, brlcad (the user here in IRC), or starseeker, or ``Erik |
| 07:22.20 | anirudh | hehe yea |
| 07:22.31 | yukonbob | chat later :) |
| 07:22.48 | anirudh | bbye :) so you got my idea, right ? :) |
| 07:22.50 | anirudh | thanks |
| 07:22.52 | hippieindamakin8 | anirudh, u sent that proposal of mt eh ? |
| 07:22.53 | anirudh | laters man |
| 07:23.00 | anirudh | yeah |
| 07:23.09 | anirudh | yep hippie |
| 07:23.24 | hippieindamakin8 | wait that was ashish kumar rai |
| 07:24.04 | anirudh | ??? |
| 07:24.17 | anirudh | is confused |
| 07:24.24 | anirudh | what's up ? are you ashish ? |
| 07:27.23 | hippieindamakin8 | anirudh, no :) i am hippieindamakin8 :) |
| 07:29.23 | *** join/#brlcad double-yang (n=bravehea@124.115.173.231) |
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| 08:05.12 | *** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.148.148) |
| 08:56.00 | brlcad | yawns |
| 09:05.11 | madant | huh awake already ? i thought u just went to sleep |
| 09:06.13 | madant | is getting his lappie heating up trying to build minion |
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| 11:13.55 | madant | aah apparently double-yang's real name is Yang Yang :) |
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| 11:59.43 | brlcad | madant: I had :) |
| 11:59.57 | brlcad | few hours is plenty |
| 12:00.16 | brlcad | if I could get away with less and function safely, I would :) |
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| 13:52.49 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 0378.183.51.7 07http://brlcad.org * r1285 10/wiki/Building_from_SVN: /* Install */ |
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| 14:30.56 | *** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.135.163) |
| 14:36.42 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Louipc 07http://brlcad.org * r1286 10/wiki/URL_URI_URN_Implimentations: Typos |
| 15:15.31 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34060 10/rt^3/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): added the arb8 object |
| 15:17.51 | brlcad | neat |
| 15:18.07 | brlcad | louipc: care to take a stab at fixing that bug :) |
| 15:19.09 | louipc | brlcad: can you reproduce it or is it just me? |
| 15:19.14 | madant | brlcad: how was rowing :) |
| 15:25.41 | louipc | brlcad: you're referring to the ogl reattach bug right? |
| 15:25.48 | brlcad | louipc: yes |
| 15:25.50 | brlcad | madant: fantastic |
| 15:25.59 | brlcad | actually kinda crappy today, but fantastic to be rowing |
| 15:26.15 | brlcad | was windy, boat couldn't be set well |
| 15:26.26 | louipc | arr |
| 15:27.00 | brlcad | matey |
| 15:27.06 | louipc | I would like to stab the bug, but I think it's beyond my sorry level of understanding |
| 15:27.07 | madant | learned swimming only recently :D , would love to row sometime |
| 15:27.35 | brlcad | rowing doesn't generally require swimming unless you're doing something wrong :) |
| 15:27.53 | louipc | haha |
| 15:27.58 | louipc | swimming is a good back-up |
| 15:28.38 | brlcad | the oars float ;) |
| 15:31.37 | madant | :D hah.. |
| 15:32.21 | madant | i would really not like to be in the middle of a big lake and not know swimming :D even if it is a big boat :P |
| 15:34.04 | brlcad | there's a "flip test" in crew where they intentionally put you in a single skull boat and make you flip it (with you in it) |
| 15:34.52 | brlcad | the test is to unstrap yourself from the boat (so you don't drown), get out from under it, flip the boat back over, and then actually get back into the boat (which is way way harder than it sounds) |
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| 15:35.31 | starseeker | wonders why the heck he slep so late and gets his butt in gear... |
| 15:42.04 | brlcad | hopefully not first gear ;) |
| 15:42.22 | brlcad | is excited about the bsg finale |
| 15:45.17 | madant | doesnt like his image of flip test :D |
| 15:46.46 | jonored_ | brlcad: Sounds like what I was doing the first several times out in a kayak... |
| 15:48.01 | jonored_ | Well, apart from the intentional part. That was only in the lake. |
| 15:49.18 | madant | hmm.. kayaking is quite different from rowing ? |
| 15:52.49 | brlcad | they make you do it in a single simply because it *will eventually happen |
| 15:52.55 | brlcad | just a matter of time :) |
| 15:53.09 | _sushi_ | rowing on a gym rowing machine doesn't require swimming :) |
| 15:53.16 | jonored_ | madant: It is, but the practice is the same idea. Although in a kayak there's the stuff you do after that of learning to just get back up without getting out of the boat. |
| 15:53.37 | _sushi_ | eskimo? |
| 15:53.39 | brlcad | there was a great shot at the olympics last year where this pair was *way* ahead of the competition .. and they ended up flipping like 20ft in front of the finish line |
| 15:53.53 | brlcad | they tried swimming with their boat across the finish line |
| 15:53.59 | brlcad | didn't quite make it, but was hilarious |
| 15:55.17 | jonored_ | Hilarious. sushi: Yep. Girlfriend can do it in a small kayak but not a sea one, and I can't yet at all. Going to be able to. |
| 15:55.39 | _sushi_ | do you need strength for that? |
| 15:55.39 | louipc | kayaks are awesome |
| 15:55.52 | brlcad | _sushi_: rowing on an erg is more akin to torture .. |
| 15:56.43 | brlcad | at least outside you have these amazing sights (water, waves, sunrises/sunsets, etc), sounds of the water and boats, fresh air .. serene |
| 15:57.09 | _sushi_ | I don't find water waves sounds of water boats and fresh air amazing |
| 15:57.15 | _sushi_ | But i find sunsets and sunrises amazing |
| 15:57.34 | _sushi_ | But what's really amazing is the sun in noon |
| 15:57.36 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34061 10/rt^3/trunk/ (10 files in 2 dirs): IsValid method is now required for all Objects |
| 15:58.25 | brlcad | in the best times of the year (end of spring, beginning of fall), I usually get to see the sunrise over the water and sunsets almost on a daily basis |
| 15:58.37 | brlcad | it can be very surreal |
| 15:58.44 | _sushi_ | I saw a sunset at the sea once |
| 15:58.49 | _sushi_ | Nothing really special |
| 15:58.58 | _sushi_ | I find sunsets in Prague more beautiful |
| 15:59.06 | brlcad | not really the same thing at sea |
| 15:59.40 | _sushi_ | Those are sights everyone knows |
| 15:59.54 | _sushi_ | But interesting is for example a red beam of light going through fog in the night |
| 15:59.59 | _sushi_ | You can see how the fog is moving inside |
| 16:00.59 | brlcad | exactly what I'm trying to say, it's NOT something you normally see anywhere unless you live at a marina |
| 16:01.24 | _sushi_ | why does a marina sunset special? |
| 16:01.34 | brlcad | the fog rushes out as the sunrise begins, the hour preceeding is tiny white and red lights of your boat and other small craft |
| 16:01.55 | _sushi_ | what is tiny white? |
| 16:02.02 | brlcad | very quiet, water can be almost glasslike |
| 16:02.38 | _sushi_ | oh that sounds sureeal |
| 16:02.44 | brlcad | boats have lights just like cars |
| 16:02.52 | brlcad | well, not just like them |
| 16:02.54 | brlcad | but similar |
| 16:03.19 | _sushi_ | don't boats make waves? |
| 16:03.21 | brlcad | white light in front to let other boats know which way you are facing, red/green in rear (to let you know which side you are on) |
| 16:03.32 | _sushi_ | How can it be glasslike when there are boats running around? |
| 16:03.38 | _sushi_ | Or do they shine even when they are parked? |
| 16:04.03 | brlcad | crew boats barely disturb the water, they sort of slice through it |
| 16:04.16 | _sushi_ | what's a crew boat? |
| 16:04.32 | brlcad | if you have a good crew, you literally only see small concentric puddles where the oars went in and a small V behind the boat |
| 16:04.58 | _sushi_ | and if you have a bad crew? |
| 16:06.41 | brlcad | http://www2.sacschool.com/uploads/images/Rowing%20Club%20-%20Facilities.jpg |
| 16:07.10 | brlcad | then the water is just distrubed a little more, not quite as precise |
| 16:07.17 | _sushi_ | how much watt do you generate when rowing? |
| 16:07.38 | _sushi_ | I mean net mechanical output on the body->boat interface |
| 16:08.07 | brlcad | yeah, I know what you mean -- I forget the actual numbers |
| 16:08.45 | brlcad | rowing is actually rated as one of the highest VO2 maxing sports out there as it activates almost every muscle in the body |
| 16:09.17 | _sushi_ | I think about 5 sports are now rated as the higest VO2max |
| 16:09.24 | _sushi_ | swimming cycling etc. |
| 16:09.29 | _sushi_ | depends on who you are talking to |
| 16:09.45 | _sushi_ | I am sure you ask a programmer he will tell you programming is the highest VO2 maxing sport out there |
| 16:10.05 | brlcad | don't have the reference, but like the top 10 VO2-max tested athletes is something like half rowers and half cylists |
| 16:10.19 | _sushi_ | Does it also activate the ear drum tension muscle? |
| 16:10.26 | brlcad | heh |
| 16:10.27 | _sushi_ | yeah lance armstrong |
| 16:10.39 | _sushi_ | his body is directly oxidizing steroidz |
| 16:11.10 | _sushi_ | lance always wins because the other cyclists puncture on the hypodermic needles he leaves behind |
| 16:11.48 | brlcad | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VO2_max#VO2_max_Levels has a little tidbit about the max capacity of rowers in the third paragraph |
| 16:12.51 | _sushi_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:12.57 | _sushi_ | I am sure I must be the other group |
| 16:14.13 | _sushi_ | Siberian dogs running in the Iditarod Trail Sled Dog Race sled race have VO2 values as high as 240 ml/kg/min. |
| 16:14.20 | _sushi_ | I think we need some genetic conditioning |
| 16:14.54 | brlcad | mine has more than doubled in the past when I've gone from static (being a lazy punk) to training mode (2x per day, 6 days per week) |
| 16:15.12 | _sushi_ | how old were you when you did it? |
| 16:15.13 | brlcad | took more than a season |
| 16:15.38 | brlcad | mid-20's |
| 16:15.48 | _sushi_ | I started to go to work on bike |
| 16:15.56 | _sushi_ | I threw out my municipal transport prepaid |
| 16:16.03 | _sushi_ | I don't know if this increases my VO2max |
| 16:16.08 | _sushi_ | but I stopped feeling like zombie |
| 16:16.13 | _sushi_ | and I need less hours of sleep |
| 16:16.16 | _sushi_ | and my face looks better |
| 16:16.30 | _sushi_ | I go comfortable pace |
| 16:16.37 | _sushi_ | As fast as comfortable |
| 16:16.47 | brlcad | resting heart rate is often correlated -- did your HR decrease? |
| 16:16.55 | brlcad | if it did, VO2 almost certainly incrased |
| 16:16.56 | _sushi_ | I don't know |
| 16:17.41 | _sushi_ | I am too lazy to measure |
| 16:17.42 | *** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.134.36) |
| 16:19.47 | _sushi_ | brlcad: can a comfotable physicalactivityincreaqse VO2max? |
| 16:20.54 | madant | increase in VO2max by comfort ..don't think so :) |
| 16:21.06 | _sushi_ | torture is necessary? |
| 16:21.36 | madant | haha.. well not torture per se.. i hear high intensity interval training is pretty effective |
| 16:21.52 | _sushi_ | what is that? |
| 16:22.11 | madant | weirdly remember the quote "Pain is inevitable, Suffering is Optional" |
| 16:23.10 | madant | well interval training is when you do say 20 seconds of strenuous work followed by 10 seconds of recovery.. or some similar interval.. :) |
| 16:23.20 | madant | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_interval_training |
| 16:23.20 | brlcad | _sushi_: yeah, I don't think you can without increasing your anaerobic threshold |
| 16:23.25 | _sushi_ | like strenuous dishwashing? |
| 16:23.28 | brlcad | (which is akin to torture) |
| 16:23.54 | brlcad | loves interval training when at the gym |
| 16:23.55 | madant | _sushi_: can imagine dishwashing being pretty strenuous :D |
| 16:24.02 | _sushi_ | brlcad: I don't understand do you think comfotable bike ride increases my Vo2 max? |
| 16:24.14 | brlcad | don't like interval when out on the road though for some reason |
| 16:24.21 | brlcad | _sushi_: no, I don't |
| 16:24.31 | brlcad | I think it maintains your max |
| 16:24.38 | brlcad | plenty of other benefits, of course |
| 16:24.47 | brlcad | just not your max oxygen capacity |
| 16:24.49 | _sushi_ | can you die from having low VO2max? |
| 16:24.53 | brlcad | at least not after a couple weeks |
| 16:24.53 | madant | I don't like going to the gym :) more of a bodyweight exercise person :D |
| 16:25.15 | brlcad | _sushi_: heh, of suffocation, sure :) |
| 16:25.24 | madant | haha :D |
| 16:25.24 | brlcad | VO2max == 0.0L/min |
| 16:25.28 | _sushi_ | lol |
| 16:25.45 | _sushi_ | that must be my figure |
| 16:25.46 | _sushi_ | or negative |
| 16:26.07 | brlcad | it's exceptionally low, though .. try breathing through a coffee stirring straw .. see how long you can keep it up |
| 16:26.19 | brlcad | generally not enough for most people |
| 16:27.06 | brlcad | you can adjust to crazy low values, though |
| 16:27.09 | _sushi_ | I once run 12km in 55 minutes |
| 16:27.12 | _sushi_ | and it was comfortable |
| 16:27.17 | brlcad | folks living in high-altitudes do it all the time |
| 16:27.26 | _sushi_ | if I leave out stress on the knees |
| 16:27.33 | _sushi_ | So it doesn't increase my VO2max>? |
| 16:28.45 | brlcad | no, that just increases your cardiovascular efficiency, aerobic capacity |
| 16:28.52 | _sushi_ | omg |
| 16:28.56 | brlcad | to increase your max, you have to press your anaerobic capacity |
| 16:29.02 | _sushi_ | aha |
| 16:29.17 | _sushi_ | like in gym? |
| 16:29.18 | brlcad | (while sustaining/increasing aerobic) |
| 16:29.25 | brlcad | heh, doesn't matter where |
| 16:29.36 | _sushi_ | weight lifting is anaerobic |
| 16:29.43 | brlcad | yes, usually is |
| 16:29.50 | _sushi_ | does it increase VO2max? |
| 16:29.53 | brlcad | you can actually do aerobic weight lifting |
| 16:29.56 | brlcad | it just looks silly |
| 16:30.27 | _sushi_ | fortunatelly gay guys on dates don't test VO2max |
| 16:30.31 | _sushi_ | they just test muscle mass |
| 16:30.33 | brlcad | it rarely does afaik simply because you end up taking so many breaks -- you don't sustain/increase your aerobic, it decreases if you only lift |
| 16:30.38 | _sushi_ | and training for that is comfortable for me :) |
| 16:31.00 | brlcad | if you did circuit training though, you probably could increase it |
| 16:31.10 | _sushi_ | circuit training? |
| 16:31.15 | _sushi_ | I do circuit design |
| 16:31.42 | brlcad | heh, not the same thing |
| 16:31.48 | _sushi_ | what is it? |
| 16:31.56 | brlcad | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circuit_training |
| 16:32.47 | brlcad | basically sort of like weight lifting with NO breaks |
| 16:33.15 | madant | longs to go beyond the 6 minute mile |
| 16:33.18 | brlcad | you have to lift less weight because eventually you'll be out of breath as your muscles are activated |
| 16:33.32 | brlcad | madant: 6min? that's pretty damn good |
| 16:33.43 | madant | er.. 6:12 :D |
| 16:33.51 | _sushi_ | can do it on a bicycle |
| 16:33.52 | brlcad | for casual gym go-er at least |
| 16:33.58 | brlcad | heh |
| 16:34.05 | _sushi_ | I am always amused when I realize |
| 16:34.10 | madant | but after that mile i am pretty bust :D |
| 16:34.27 | _sushi_ | when I cough up blood it's just a barely average untrained person performance |
| 16:34.47 | _sushi_ | Maybe something is wrong with my body |
| 16:35.04 | _sushi_ | some chemical is missing in some chain? |
| 16:35.14 | madant | you cough up blood ? |
| 16:35.29 | _sushi_ | I don't mean it literally |
| 16:35.37 | madant | ah thought so :D |
| 16:36.04 | madant | has a bad sense of humor |
| 16:36.07 | brlcad | my best mile was somewhere around 4:50 iirc |
| 16:36.20 | madant | brlcad: awesome :) |
| 16:36.25 | brlcad | but that was back in HS/college, no fucking way now :) |
| 16:36.37 | brlcad | my knees would explode |
| 16:36.42 | louipc | hmm! mged -c doesn't even offer ogl as an attach option in my latest build |
| 16:36.58 | brlcad | louipc: yeah, current trunk defaults ogl off for now |
| 16:37.07 | brlcad | because of a couple bugs.. :) |
| 16:37.15 | _sushi_ | brlcad: that was with rocket engine in the ass? |
| 16:37.17 | madant | brlcad: for me still pretty much VO2max is the issue.. legs are ok ;) |
| 16:37.35 | madant | hahah :D |
| 16:38.12 | _sushi_ | Rule #1: if the spoon doesn't stand in your protein shake, you'll not build up any muscles |
| 16:38.30 | _sushi_ | I thought I'll die when we had running on the high school |
| 16:38.40 | _sushi_ | I guess for me even youth didn't help |
| 16:39.03 | _sushi_ | I just decided to triple the amount of protein in my shakes |
| 16:39.09 | madant | _sushi_: :) i have never had protein shakes :D and i don't have big muscles either :D but they are growing.. just takes longer i guess .. and size strength correlation is very fuzzy :) |
| 16:39.12 | louipc | brlcad: ahh |
| 16:39.18 | _sushi_ | Maybe I'll be able to put on some nanograms of muscle mass |
| 16:39.25 | madant | not to mention size-strength-endurance :D |
| 16:39.44 | _sushi_ | madant: in me, protein shakes grow probably only fat |
| 16:40.02 | _sushi_ | I can select if I want to be bones-skin or bones-fat-skin |
| 16:40.09 | madant | is a dumbo on the nutrition front |
| 16:40.22 | _sushi_ | If the cycle that synthesizes muscle were implemented in me, it would help |
| 16:41.19 | _sushi_ | my doctor said I have "slim heart" and that I am "generally asthenic" |
| 16:41.30 | _sushi_ | I guess it's just a medical word for "your DNA is crap" |
| 16:41.37 | madant | :D |
| 16:42.05 | _sushi_ | or "half of the protein codes that make a functioning male from you are overwritten by a random garbage" |
| 16:45.35 | _sushi_ | Is there a way how to monitor your total muscle mass? |
| 16:46.55 | louipc | dip yourself in chocolate |
| 16:49.52 | _sushi_ | and slurp it all up? |
| 16:50.37 | louipc | you would have to know the mass of your fat/bone/skin/organs and subtract it from your total mass. hmm |
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| 17:57.03 | brlcad | woo hoo, subversion 1.6 is out |
| 18:01.31 | starseeker | awesome |
| 18:01.39 | starseeker | checks subversion new features list |
| 18:03.01 | starseeker | hmm... tree conflicts |
| 18:04.19 | starseeker | wonders how they will factor in with stable merges... |
| 18:04.51 | *** join/#brlcad jonored_ (n=jonored@pool-72-74-104-129.bstnma.east.verizon.net) |
| 18:05.06 | brlcad | interactive conflict resolution |
| 18:05.06 | starseeker | yay - improved interactive conflict resolution at command line |
| 18:06.21 | starseeker | sqlite is now required |
| 18:13.40 | starseeker | is reminded of other potential uses for sqlite and looks up its docs... |
| 18:14.58 | brlcad | tis very simple to use, pretty tiny lib |
| 19:27.36 | *** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@64.74.225.82) |
| 19:37.15 | brlcad | hello BigAToo |
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| 20:24.50 | *** join/#brlcad anirudhsharma (n=mota@117.199.117.93) |
| 20:25.02 | anirudhsharma | hi any mentors around here |
| 20:25.13 | anirudhsharma | hippie you there ? |
| 20:27.21 | *** join/#brlcad starseeker (n=starseek@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 20:28.35 | anirudhsharma | hi starseeker |
| 20:28.38 | anirudhsharma | are you there |
| 20:28.48 | anirudhsharma | need to discuss my thing with you |
| 20:28.52 | anirudhsharma | google soc idea |
| 20:34.56 | hippieindamakin8 | anirudhsharma, yeah |
| 20:35.29 | anirudhsharma | what's your name dude ? |
| 20:35.30 | starseeker | anirudhsharma: what's up? |
| 20:35.37 | anirudhsharma | pretty good , yeah |
| 20:36.33 | anirudhsharma | hey dude |
| 20:36.41 | anirudhsharma | when do the mentors come online |
| 20:36.48 | anirudhsharma | need to discuss my idea with them |
| 20:37.06 | anirudhsharma | since my exams are going on , i can't really :) hehe |
| 20:48.30 | brlcad | tries to go into more detail for daniel |
| 20:50.01 | brlcad | ~anirudhsharma-- |
| 20:50.02 | brlcad | that'd be interesting, use a karma point system while evaluating applicants |
| 21:36.37 | *** join/#brlcad dreeves_ (n=dreeves@67.130.253.14) |
| 22:02.08 | Ralith | people always work out how to abuse quantitative systems |
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| 23:18.06 | *** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.33.19) |
| 23:19.26 | andrecastelo | good evening everyone :) |
| 23:21.50 | madant | andrecatstelo: howdy.. just woke up 4: 45 am here :D |
| 23:24.02 | andrecastelo | madant: hehe, good evening from gmt - 3 :D |
| 23:27.36 | madant | :D what are u upto these days ;) |
| 23:38.54 | andrecastelo | madant: finishing some class projects due to next week ;) |
| 23:39.11 | andrecastelo | i'm trying to move 'open source development' up in the priority list |
| 23:39.13 | andrecastelo | :D |
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