| 00:17.54 | *** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.15.124) |
| 00:19.19 | andrecastelo | howdy brlcad, ``Erik and pacman87 |
| 00:20.03 | pacman87 | hi andrecastelo |
| 00:20.09 | poolio | I resent that andrecastelo ;) |
| 00:20.26 | andrecastelo | howdy poolio ! heheh :D |
| 00:55.42 | yukonbob | evening, cadheads |
| 01:20.55 | pacman87 | hi yukonbob |
| 01:41.31 | yukonbob | hey pacman87 -- how're things? |
| 02:05.19 | PrezKennedy | howdy brlcad! |
| 02:26.05 | *** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 02:26.05 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net |
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| 04:27.04 | *** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=timothy@71.170.63.120) |
| 04:37.34 | brlcad | ahh |
| 04:38.52 | starseeker | notices the science overlay has an ebuild for salome |
| 04:41.59 | brlcad | starseeker: are you on the news mailing list? |
| 04:43.04 | *** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=timothy@71.170.63.120) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:43.04 | brlcad | or better yet, has anyone received a message today from the brlcad-news mailing list? |
| 04:43.05 | starseeker | checks... |
| 04:43.13 | *** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=timothy@71.170.63.120) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:43.19 | starseeker | no, just the devel list |
| 04:43.20 | brlcad | pacman87: welcome back :) |
| 04:43.23 | starseeker | moves to correct this... |
| 04:43.25 | brlcad | hrmph |
| 04:43.34 | brlcad | oh, you're only on devel, got it |
| 04:45.05 | starseeker | is subscribed now, but doubts that helps with the immediate problem... |
| 04:46.17 | starseeker | chuckles as gentoo pulls opencascade from freebsd.org |
| 04:47.40 | starseeker | brlcad: IIRC the opencascade license is somewhat odd? |
| 04:48.05 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 04:50.33 | brlcad | yeah, rather horribly worded license |
| 04:51.00 | brlcad | somewhat sketchy terms |
| 04:51.32 | starseeker | wonders if they ever publicly justified the reasons for the one-off license? |
| 04:55.16 | starseeker | gets "welcome to brlcad-news" email, if that helps any... |
| 04:56.29 | *** join/#brlcad homovulgaris (n=cb6ef51f@bz.bzflag.bz) |
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| 04:57.15 | homovulgaris | hi Sean, u there ? |
| 04:57.22 | brlcad | nope |
| 04:57.37 | homovulgaris | huh :O |
| 04:57.52 | brlcad | ~ask |
| 04:57.53 | ibot | hmm... ask is Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. |
| 04:58.09 | starseeker | he must have been killed and replaced by the AI bot he was working on... |
| 04:58.19 | starseeker | :-P |
| 04:58.24 | homovulgaris | :P |
| 04:58.37 | homovulgaris | anyways.. i have been living without internet for around 5 days now.. |
| 04:58.40 | homovulgaris | it is a disaster |
| 04:58.58 | starseeker | ow |
| 05:00.12 | brlcad | apparently so |
| 05:00.33 | *** join/#brlcad homovulgaris (n=cb6ef51f@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 05:01.14 | brlcad | well sorry to hear that.. glad to see you were able to find the intarwebs eventually ;) |
| 05:01.39 | homovulgaris | brlcad: i will commit tomorrow hopefully when the network comes up :( |
| 05:02.10 | homovulgaris | literally worst five days i have had in a long time .. maybe i am a net addict :O --> self-realization |
| 05:02.36 | homovulgaris | i dont have all the data i have been working with but i think i can still discuss it if you are free |
| 05:03.24 | homovulgaris | basically i started a new directory libpc which contains most of the code, a new pc.h header containing the structures in include |
| 05:03.54 | homovulgaris | inside librt i started a new file pc_constraint.c which implement pc_constraint_export and pc_constraint_import |
| 05:04.03 | homovulgaris | the import part i havent written |
| 05:04.42 | homovulgaris | then i have made a simple mk_constraint function for now inside libpc |
| 05:05.43 | brlcad | now libpc instead of libpg? |
| 05:05.49 | homovulgaris | Inside libpc i have also defined generate_parameters function , the idea of which basically is.. if you pass a directory pointer to it , it generates a parameter set of all possible handles |
| 05:06.26 | homovulgaris | yeah i thought parametrics and constraints are significant .. i mean Parametrics & Constraints rather than parametric geometry |
| 05:07.30 | homovulgaris | and a write_parameter_set function which basically writes the parameter set as an (attribute value) array to the db using update_attributes |
| 05:07.46 | homovulgaris | i hope i am not messing up any of the function names from memory :P |
| 05:07.59 | brlcad | it all sounds good and well without seeing the code structure itself ;) |
| 05:08.10 | homovulgaris | :) i know |
| 05:08.55 | homovulgaris | hey sean, regarding librt integration.. the way i have implemented it presently is , so that we still use the librt functions to write stuff to db |
| 05:08.59 | brlcad | the exact function names aren't significant at this point other than consistently prefixing the calls with the library prefix |
| 05:09.25 | brlcad | that's good |
| 05:09.36 | brlcad | librt should be the gatekeeper for all db io |
| 05:09.59 | homovulgaris | i am finding using the attribute system for storing parameters a little bit too verbose |
| 05:11.03 | brlcad | the question we'd talked about earlier was whether to create a new non-geometric db object or using attributes |
| 05:11.10 | homovulgaris | but i am not able to think of a better way to handle it without extending the database system to a new version or defining a new object type just to hold the "handles" or parameters of the existing geometry object |
| 05:11.21 | brlcad | no doubt that using attributes is more verbose |
| 05:12.00 | brlcad | i thought we'd settled on using a new db object actually after the last discussion |
| 05:12.11 | homovulgaris | for storing the equations or constraints we do need a non-geometric object which i have defined. |
| 05:12.25 | brlcad | okay, then what are you using attributes for then? |
| 05:12.55 | homovulgaris | for each geometric type there are a certain list of variables or parameters u can change right.. for denoting them |
| 05:14.20 | homovulgaris | like for example in the case of a sphere ( radius,center-x,center-y,center-z) whether they are parametric or explicit, is there some domain restriction ( 0<radius < fastf_t_MAX ) |
| 05:15.26 | homovulgaris | adding a new object for each and every variable of a geometric object seems overkill |
| 05:16.24 | brlcad | there are implicitly a list of vars/params.. it'll take a bit of effort to make that list explicit through a generic interface |
| 05:16.36 | homovulgaris | so i was thinking we could use the attribute system for storing that data.. since in a sense it is the attribute of the sphere after all. but the verbosity is making me think about shifting that infomration as well to an object type somehow |
| 05:17.04 | brlcad | that list of variables/parameters is in the library itself, not persisted to the db |
| 05:17.41 | homovulgaris | didnt get it |
| 05:18.33 | brlcad | so say you want to make a sphere .. it has radius and position values that are stored already |
| 05:18.41 | homovulgaris | ok |
| 05:18.42 | brlcad | that much doesn't need to change |
| 05:18.50 | homovulgaris | right |
| 05:19.10 | brlcad | but say now we want to add a constraint that the radius must be > 100mm |
| 05:19.24 | homovulgaris | ok |
| 05:19.55 | brlcad | that requires knowledge that "radius" is something that can be constrained on a sphere, which is something the sphere primitive itself needs to declare |
| 05:20.28 | brlcad | as part of librt, i.e. src/librt/primitives/sph would have some logic that says that radius and position are two things that can be parameterized |
| 05:20.53 | brlcad | now we need to create the actual constraint |
| 05:21.07 | homovulgaris | yeah that is the ideal way to do it :) so we should change the geometry description u men |
| 05:21.10 | brlcad | for that, there's a new db constraint object |
| 05:21.54 | brlcad | that db constraint object will refer to something like sph.radius or some other defined nomenclature for saying it applies to a given sphere's radius |
| 05:22.00 | homovulgaris | if the sphere is able to declare the fact that it has two variables for example , then things should be simple |
| 05:22.14 | homovulgaris | the question is, how do we represent which of the parameters are variable or parametric and which are constant |
| 05:22.22 | brlcad | I think it needs to |
| 05:22.41 | homovulgaris | like in this case we need to say that only radius is the only variable and position is not |
| 05:22.57 | homovulgaris | that data needs to be stored in db right |
| 05:23.43 | brlcad | saying that radius is variable and position is sound like two constraints to me |
| 05:23.58 | brlcad | s/constraints/parameters/ |
| 05:25.11 | brlcad | so by default, all parameters defined by the primitive could be changed like they can now -- you'd create a constraint object to restrict that further (e.g. radius > 100 && position == immutable) |
| 05:25.22 | homovulgaris | ok so we put two constraints ( position fixed) and (radius >100) ? |
| 05:25.30 | brlcad | yeah |
| 05:25.44 | homovulgaris | hmm |
| 05:25.58 | homovulgaris | this way we wont need generate_parameters and similar functions |
| 05:26.27 | brlcad | hasn't seen the code, so agrees :) |
| 05:26.55 | homovulgaris | :D |
| 05:27.14 | brlcad | now what isn't clear, maybe you've sorted out already, is how to create generic equations that can be applied |
| 05:27.54 | brlcad | and stored/referenced in the db as distinct generic function objects |
| 05:28.06 | brlcad | or if it's even worth dealing with that right now |
| 05:28.14 | homovulgaris | to store the equations i was thinking of using a stack with postfix or prefix which refers to these parameters. |
| 05:28.46 | homovulgaris | basically for the whole solution part i was planning on using c++ |
| 05:29.37 | brlcad | that should be fine, you'll just have to have a well-defined abstraction into librt so you don't infect it type-wise :) |
| 05:29.54 | homovulgaris | hopefully :) |
| 05:30.10 | brlcad | necessarily |
| 05:30.20 | homovulgaris | obviously :) |
| 05:30.46 | homovulgaris | regarding storage |
| 05:31.09 | homovulgaris | what if i just store the stack as a string in the .g file ? |
| 05:31.40 | homovulgaris | and when you import it, it generates the constraint_network graph |
| 05:31.49 | brlcad | that should be fine |
| 05:32.04 | brlcad | especially since the objects are referred to by string references necessarily anyways |
| 05:32.06 | homovulgaris | the edges in the graph are these equations ( like sph.1_r>1000) |
| 05:32.28 | brlcad | there may be value, though, in storing the operators and values in binary |
| 05:32.34 | brlcad | especially the values |
| 05:32.45 | brlcad | for precision |
| 05:33.08 | homovulgaris | hmm.. so names i store as string and values and operators i convert to binary |
| 05:33.51 | brlcad | yeah, probably ideal |
| 05:35.24 | brlcad | maybe something like STR sph.1_r INT 1000 OP > |
| 05:35.33 | brlcad | where str, int, and op are some binary code |
| 05:36.11 | brlcad | so you push values onto a ministack when importing, and perform operations as needed for each equation |
| 05:36.49 | brlcad | I don't mean that exact string, only "sph.1_r" would be a chars in that example, the rest would be network encoded |
| 05:36.50 | homovulgaris | for representing the solution of any individual parameter i was thinking of struct parameter_soln { int n_domains; struct domains * d[] } ; where struct domain { double min; double max} |
| 05:37.13 | homovulgaris | makes sense :) |
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| 05:38.36 | homovulgaris | hi pacman87 |
| 05:38.55 | brlcad | a fixed array of domains? |
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| 05:40.53 | homovulgaris | well a dynamic array of domains |
| 05:41.01 | brlcad | you could use a simple bu_list of domains |
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| 05:41.33 | homovulgaris | bu_list is a linked list right ? |
| 05:41.38 | brlcad | they're a pretty simple container |
| 05:41.43 | brlcad | yeah, doubly linked lists |
| 05:41.48 | homovulgaris | ok. |
| 05:42.02 | homovulgaris | i still have to figure out how to solve equations like r<1000 |
| 05:42.05 | brlcad | you create your own data type (i.e. struct domain), and just add bu_list as the first element |
| 05:42.25 | brlcad | that automatically makes it a linkable structure |
| 05:42.33 | homovulgaris | kewl :) |
| 05:42.48 | brlcad | there's an example in bu.h |
| 05:43.40 | homovulgaris | ok |
| 05:43.58 | brlcad | you're basically implementing a simple lamba calculus for evaluating the expressions |
| 05:44.21 | brlcad | the same evaluation that lets you do a == b should work for c > d, etc |
| 05:44.39 | brlcad | giving truth values for each result that tell if the parameters hold |
| 05:45.15 | brlcad | at least that handles all constraints, evaluating equations is a bit different of course |
| 05:46.09 | homovulgaris | hmm.. ( need to do more reading :)) |
| 05:47.55 | homovulgaris | pacman87: sorry, but my svn is 6 days old :) did u rename the tentry in table.c to lesser than 8 characters. i was getting a compiler warning, initializer string too long.. you are the one wokring on hyperboloid right ? |
| 05:48.28 | brlcad | homovulgaris: it's since changed, it's less |
| 05:49.01 | homovulgaris | and then again there is the case of generic equations which can themselves be complex |
| 05:49.06 | brlcad | it was increased, breaking binary compatibility, then reverted/renamed to something less than 8 chars to avoid that (and it wasn't necessary) |
| 05:49.12 | brlcad | it's a 'hyp' primitive now |
| 05:49.28 | homovulgaris | like 2nd degree polynomials in 2 variables and so on. |
| 05:49.36 | homovulgaris | oh.. i realy need to update :) |
| 05:50.40 | homovulgaris | pacman87: the uv mapping looks ultra cool :) |
| 05:52.38 | homovulgaris | i will go think about how to make geometry declare their variables to the world :) |
| 05:52.45 | brlcad | very cool: http://brlcad.org/gallery/s/renderings/primitives/hyp.png.html :) |
| 05:53.47 | homovulgaris | see you tonight again hopefully on my computer hopefully :) |
| 05:54.59 | brlcad | i think each primitive's list of their variables is close to the class of entity types you listed |
| 05:55.38 | homovulgaris | hmmm.. true |
| 05:56.59 | brlcad | points, lines, planes, axes, corners, circles, curves |
| 05:58.30 | brlcad | e.g. sphere probably only has a point and an axis, whereas an arb8 would have 8 points, 6 planes, 12 lines, and an axis |
| 06:00.45 | brlcad | was talking with a professor from IIT Kanpur just last week at a conference |
| 06:01.09 | homovulgaris | hehe.. was he a nice guy ? |
| 06:01.20 | brlcad | oh sure |
| 06:01.29 | brlcad | it's a small highly technical conference |
| 06:01.47 | homovulgaris | on cad ? |
| 06:01.51 | brlcad | we talked for quite a while about open source |
| 06:01.53 | brlcad | and gsoc |
| 06:02.02 | homovulgaris | :) nice |
| 06:02.04 | brlcad | on solid and physical modeling |
| 06:02.44 | homovulgaris | what is his name ? |
| 06:03.08 | brlcad | i actually don't remember atm, I'd have to look up his paper |
| 06:03.39 | homovulgaris | :) lots of good professors in india at IITs |
| 06:03.50 | homovulgaris | lots of not so good ones also .. but still :D |
| 06:05.01 | brlcad | mm.. would be really interesting to have the primitives also define their constraints, and then use the library to ensure they're held |
| 06:05.20 | brlcad | that might even make a good first step before trying to sort out the db io |
| 06:05.44 | brlcad | since all primitives had implicit constraints |
| 06:05.45 | homovulgaris | hmmm.. define their constraints in the sense the self constraints right ? |
| 06:05.50 | brlcad | right |
| 06:06.03 | homovulgaris | like for the sphere ? the implicit restrictions on radius ? |
| 06:06.05 | brlcad | a sphere can't have a negative or infinite radius, for example |
| 06:06.46 | brlcad | and more specifically, since the parameters for a sphere are technically the same as that of an ellipsoid, there's an A and B vector for parameters |
| 06:07.07 | homovulgaris | basically this declaration would involve adding new functions to each geometry type right |
| 06:07.08 | brlcad | and the constraint is that |A| == |B| for it to be a sphere |
| 06:07.40 | homovulgaris | i meant the declaration of constraints and parameters to the world |
| 06:07.58 | homovulgaris | like new functions in g_ell or g_arb8 |
| 06:08.02 | brlcad | one callback function that returns a table should suffice |
| 06:08.17 | homovulgaris | yeah new function sorry :) |
| 06:09.56 | homovulgaris | and where would the code which calls the library to ensre the constraint holding be located ? |
| 06:35.04 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31347 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/hyp/hyp.c: add some basic sanity checks on the uv range, mapping is still slightly off with a rotation offset on the u values and incorrect count |
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| 07:38.23 | brlcad | hmms and thinks thinks he just needs to keep going |
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| 09:34.48 | brlcad | quad charts suck |
| 09:35.02 | clock_ | brlcad: what's a quad chart? |
| 09:35.36 | brlcad | an imposed format that tries to categorize information into 4 specific bins |
| 09:35.43 | clock_ | lol |
| 09:35.51 | clock_ | some kind of mind mapping tool? |
| 09:36.07 | brlcad | nah, just business junk |
| 09:36.08 | clock_ | categorizes information into one specific dustbin |
| 09:36.18 | clock_ | brlcad: :) |
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| 09:47.40 | mafm | hello |
| 09:52.12 | brlcad | howdy mafm |
| 09:52.20 | brlcad | buenos dias! |
| 10:00.27 | mafm | hi |
| 10:00.32 | mafm | you have strange sleep habits, don't you? :D |
| 10:00.41 | poolio | mornin' |
| 10:00.41 | clock_ | brlcad: you can speak spanish? |
| 10:00.49 | poolio | brlcad: way to ... sleep |
| 10:01.56 | clock_ | A friend is designing his own beds, lamps etc. and using some commercial software I don't remember the name |
| 10:02.12 | clock_ | Should I suggest BRL-CAD? Does it run under Windows good enough for an end user as well? |
| 10:03.29 | brlcad | mafm: heh, you could say that .. |
| 10:04.12 | brlcad | doesn't generally like sleeping |
| 10:05.10 | clock_ | finds falling asleep boring |
| 10:05.14 | mafm | I don't either, but I have to |
| 10:06.21 | brlcad | nonsense! just have to train your body to expect less :) |
| 10:07.00 | brlcad | body is exceptionally resiliant and adaptive if you force it |
| 10:07.32 | brlcad | clock_: it runs just fine under windows -- if they're as smart and adaptive as you are, then sure |
| 10:07.46 | clock_ | they are smart but not sure if they are adaptive :) |
| 10:07.53 | brlcad | in general though, you are a bit exceptional as for a modeler getting up to speed quickly and adapting to your needs |
| 10:08.14 | clock_ | they use windows and they paid for commercial program maybe they will want to find psychological reasons to not admit their bad financial decision :) |
| 10:08.51 | clock_ | brlcad: you mean I am exceptional in adapting to BRL-CAD? Ordinary user would advance slower? |
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| 10:33.59 | hippieindamakin | hey guys |
| 10:34.12 | clock_ | hippieindamakin: hey |
| 10:34.33 | hippieindamakin | may i have the link to the svn of brlcad java trunk ? |
| 10:36.21 | clock_ | hippieindamakin: BRLCAD in java? |
| 10:36.54 | hippieindamakin | yeah there are some programs written in java man |
| 10:37.33 | hippieindamakin | wanted to get a reference and for some reason sourceforge doesnt openup |
| 10:39.21 | hippieindamakin | nevermind i reached there.. |
| 10:41.29 | hippieindamakin | clock_: http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/jbrlcad/ this is wat i meant |
| 10:41.53 | mafm | brlcad: I've already had problems for not getting enough sleep |
| 10:41.59 | brlcad | clock_: something like that, you're pretty much the ideal/intended user type that dives in, isn't afraid to script tools, can tie things together, etc |
| 10:42.26 | brlcad | hippieindamakin: just like the main repo, but jbrlcad instead of brlcad |
| 10:42.28 | brlcad | ~cadsvn |
| 10:42.31 | ibot | To obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad |
| 10:42.48 | brlcad | so this: https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/jbrlcad/trunk jbrlcad |
| 10:42.53 | hippieindamakin | hey mafm and brlcad |
| 10:44.00 | mafm | hi hippieindamakin |
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| 11:13.08 | starseeker | has finally encountered something worse than BRL-CAD for gentoo ebuild creation... |
| 11:13.19 | starseeker | stares in awe at the SALOME gentoo bug history... |
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| 12:44.16 | clock_ | The dating all boils down to the looks, and the looks boil down to the gym ;-) |
| 12:44.28 | clock_ | brlcad: was it you who attends gym or was it ``Erik? |
| 12:57.55 | mafm | uh |
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| 13:47.57 | ``Erik | brlcad is the gym monkey, my idea of exercise is the 12oz curl :D |
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| 15:04.19 | pacman87 | morning, all |
| 15:04.28 | mafm | morning |
| 15:35.18 | ``Erik | neato, bzflag has shadows, tracks, and textures now O.o |
| 15:35.38 | pacman87 | ``Erik: um... what was the last version you tried? |
| 15:35.59 | ``Erik | d'no, about 5 years ago |
| 15:36.09 | pacman87 | that explains it ;) |
| 15:36.53 | ``Erik | dodging is difficult with no 'strafe' type motion |
| 15:37.26 | pacman87 | what server are you on? |
| 15:37.36 | ``Erik | and being able to aim seperate from trvel would be neat (like keys for movement and mouse for turret) |
| 15:37.47 | ``Erik | uh, some 'BRL.something' one? |
| 15:37.59 | ``Erik | desert something-or-rather |
| 15:38.44 | ``Erik | i was dicking with macports, noticed it in the games dir, so *shrug* threw it on and jumped on one... couldn't find the name of one on brlcad's machine |
| 15:50.29 | *** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@h-67-103-183-185.mclnva23.covad.net) |
| 16:19.00 | *** join/#brlcad Axman6_ (n=Axman6@210-9-140-165.netspeed.com.au) |
| 16:35.34 | mafm | brlcad: when I submit next patches, should be the whole file or related with the patches yesterday? |
| 18:04.18 | mafm | ping! |
| 18:15.26 | mafm | omfg I killed the channel!!!!111!!! |
| 18:17.47 | louipc | pong |
| 18:19.26 | mafm | :) |
| 18:52.06 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennnedy (i=Matthew@208.43.126.194) |
| 18:59.43 | pacman87 | do the triangular faces for tess() need to be (counter)clockwise, or does the direction not matter? |
| 19:27.30 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-91-99.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 20:33.16 | mafm | @brlcad and maybe other gsoc mentors: I'm waiting on what to do with my patches to either create new patches based on them, or submit new ones with the full content of the files, etc |
| 20:33.21 | mafm | in the meantime: http://wainu.ii.uned.es/~mafm/brlcad/brlcad_rbgui_20080609-1.png |
| 20:33.57 | mafm | heading home now, see you tomorrow |
| 20:42.46 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.205.144) |
| 20:46.19 | *** join/#brlcad docelic_ (n=docelic@78.134.204.94) |
| 22:24.16 | poolio | ``Erik: where were you today? :) |
| 22:26.54 | *** join/#brlcad CIA-21 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 22:41.42 | *** join/#brlcad CIA-22 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
