| 00:02.39 | Maloeran | Eh, it will come handy to test and improve scalability, play with global illumination, SURVICE's fire simulations, AI |
| 00:03.45 | ``Erik | heh, the 2048 machien is useless |
| 00:04.01 | Maloeran | How so? |
| 00:04.01 | bjorkBSD | Maloeran, do you work for SURVICE? |
| 00:04.03 | ``Erik | the 16 core machine is useless, the best I have that's useful is 12 |
| 00:04.16 | Maloeran | As a consultant, bjorkBSD |
| 00:04.34 | bjorkBSD | cool! is their version of brl-cad different? |
| 00:04.35 | Maloeran | How are they useless, it requires paperwork to get to use them? |
| 00:05.00 | ``Erik | the 2048 machine has a cummulative load of more than 2000 |
| 00:05.08 | ``Erik | the 16 core machine has a load of more than 20. |
| 00:05.18 | ``Erik | the 12 core machine has a load of like .2 |
| 00:05.19 | Maloeran | They are developing software built on top of BRL-CAD, such as Archer, I wouldn't know if their "version" is "different".. |
| 00:05.26 | brlcad | their version is not different, they just print up everything onto CD and create hard-copy user manuals as if you'd bought a boxed copy |
| 00:06.09 | Maloeran | Nice Erik, that's what you get for using shared hardware |
| 00:06.11 | brlcad | they also provide pre-compiled binaries and perform their own testing (including for windows, for example) |
| 00:06.18 | bjorkBSD | oh. |
| 00:06.39 | Maloeran | I'll get some AMD's Barcelone chips when they come out too, if you want an account on my home mini-cluster :) |
| 00:06.44 | ``Erik | (many uneducated users look at a machines ability as a simple number of cpu's... they dont' subtract load from that... they don't understand the real difference between arch, os, clocks, etc) |
| 00:07.08 | bjorkBSD | that's non-marketing speak, erik! |
| 00:07.09 | ``Erik | obviously; the 8 cpu irix box is faster than the 1 processor linux box. because 8>1 |
| 00:07.29 | ``Erik | n/m that the irix box has 150mhz r10k's and the linux box has a 3.6ghz |
| 00:07.47 | bjorkBSD | how much is the 8cpu irix box? |
| 00:07.58 | ``Erik | oh, and the irix box has a load of 15, and the linux box has 0.00 |
| 00:08.02 | bjorkBSD | $98,000.00 without a keyboard, monitor, or mouse. |
| 00:08.23 | ``Erik | keyboards, monitors, and mice are not for machines that do real work. |
| 00:08.28 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:08.44 | ``Erik | you sit at a pretty graphical machine, maybe it can play videos and look at web pages |
| 00:08.52 | ``Erik | but crunch happens on machines in another room, mebbe another building |
| 00:09.59 | bjorkBSD | so how much does the 8 thing cost? |
| 00:10.37 | Maloeran | It's 3k$ for a nice Xeon Clovertown 8 cores, if you would prefer that |
| 00:11.07 | ``Erik | clovertown is a dual core die? |
| 00:11.13 | ``Erik | 4x2 ? |
| 00:11.31 | Maloeran | 4 cores on a die, the latest Intel chip |
| 00:11.36 | ``Erik | ah, 2x4 |
| 00:11.44 | Maloeran | They don't produce motherboards with 4 sockets unfortunately |
| 00:12.05 | Maloeran | But their memory bus wouldn't support that anyway, I think it's already going to be saturated with 8 cores |
| 00:12.16 | dtidrow_work | when is the quad-core Opterons coming out? |
| 00:12.21 | ``Erik | I think the opteron machien I'm working on these days is 4 seperate sockets... might be 2x2... twingy spec'd it, monarch built it, I just do os shit |
| 00:12.29 | Maloeran | Second quarter of 2007, they said |
| 00:12.57 | dtidrow_work | and I know they have quad-socket opteron mobos.... |
| 00:12.57 | brlcad | where altix shines is that you can go up to 512 processors in a single image.. that is .. very cool |
| 00:13.08 | dtidrow_work | yep |
| 00:13.11 | Maloeran | They have 8 sockets opteron motherboards actually |
| 00:13.12 | brlcad | no matter what the price, that's the top of the line |
| 00:13.31 | dtidrow_work | well, I've seen the four-socket ones |
| 00:13.36 | brlcad | with the price, it's quite expensive compared to a cluster based solution |
| 00:13.49 | Maloeran | brlcad, I really wonder how that single huge memory bank can cope with the ever growing number of cores |
| 00:13.59 | Maloeran | AMD's NUMA is a simple and elegant solution |
| 00:14.10 | brlcad | licensed from sgi :) |
| 00:14.12 | dtidrow_work | Altix is NUMA |
| 00:14.20 | Maloeran | Altix is NUMA as well? Oh. |
| 00:14.22 | ``Erik | is it numa? |
| 00:14.26 | ``Erik | altix is numa, yes |
| 00:14.27 | brlcad | it came from them |
| 00:14.29 | dtidrow_work | SGI has had NUMA systems for a decade now |
| 00:14.32 | ``Erik | with big honkin' cables out the butt |
| 00:14.36 | Maloeran | Neat |
| 00:14.43 | ``Erik | almost as big as my forearm (I have narrow bones) |
| 00:14.47 | brlcad | which in turn came from an earlier craylink variant when sgi acquired cray |
| 00:14.54 | dtidrow_work | the Onyx2's were NUMA |
| 00:16.15 | brlcad | they've got it scaling nearly linearly up towards 512 processors.. but then I've read they've not been able to scale linearly much past that |
| 00:16.39 | dtidrow_work | I wonder why |
| 00:16.39 | brlcad | course that in itself is a major feat.. something nobody else can do still |
| 00:17.02 | dtidrow_work | indeed - a Linux-based kernel running on 512 CPU's :-) |
| 00:17.07 | brlcad | IBM is probably closest.. but they peak out way before 512 with P5 |
| 00:18.11 | dtidrow_work | is S_I (they dropped the 'G' last year) still circling the drain, or have they stabilized? |
| 00:18.34 | Maloeran | You'll have to sacrifice a few processors to "manage" others as it grows, but it should still scale very well if they got the memory architecture right |
| 00:19.47 | brlcad | dropped the G? I know they dropped the markey, but not a name change |
| 00:19.52 | brlcad | s/markey/market/ |
| 00:20.23 | dtidrow_work | well, that's my name for them now |
| 00:20.26 | brlcad | ah, heh |
| 00:20.52 | dtidrow_work | read, "S-blank-I" ;-) |
| 00:21.32 | Maloeran | Cool, the Gambian President announced that he can cure AIDS in 3 days |
| 00:21.42 | brlcad | Maloeran: aside from the OS needing to be custom tailored, that's what's particularly cool about what the altix does .. there's no special processing nodes or otherwise limitation on the architecture .. it acts like one massive 512-core machine |
| 00:22.24 | Maloeran | It sounds quite neat, brlcad. I read briefly about the arch but it wasn't technical enough ; I even thought it was one main memory bank and not NUMA |
| 00:23.14 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 00:23.41 | Twingy | 2 cpus dual core |
| 00:27.40 | Maloeran | Dual-core is so 2006. :) |
| 00:30.01 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/ (172 files in 32 dirs): |
| 00:30.01 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: update of the bundled zlib from version 1.2.2 to 1.2.3; per the zlib website, |
| 00:30.02 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: this eliminates a potential security vulnerability when decoding invalid |
| 00:30.02 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: compressed data (VU#238678 / SA11129) as well as eliminates a potential security |
| 00:30.02 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: vulnerability when decoding specially crafted compressed data (VU#680620 / |
| 00:30.04 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: SA15949). other updates included, see the zlib release notes for details. |
| 00:31.07 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 00:31.07 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: update of the bundled zlib from version 1.2.2 to 1.2.3; per the zlib website, |
| 00:31.07 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: this eliminates a potential security vulnerability when decoding invalid |
| 00:31.07 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: compressed data (VU#238678 / SA11129) as well as eliminates a potential security |
| 00:31.08 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: vulnerability when decoding specially crafted compressed data (VU#680620 / |
| 00:31.10 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: SA15949). other updates included, see the zlib release notes for details. |
| 00:39.00 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/Makefile.am: follow zlib's makefile and generate example and minigzip binaries (test compilation/linking if anything). make them noinst. |
| 00:39.31 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/.cvsignore: add example and minigzip |
| 00:44.33 | louipc | Maloeran: so what's the new trend for 2007? |
| 00:46.56 | bjorkBSD | more screen time :) |
| 00:47.38 | louipc | hahaha |
| 01:04.13 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/Makefile.am: example.c doesn't belong in the library |
| 01:54.58 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (15 files in 13 dirs): remove duplication of zlib's public headers from our include/ dir; have configure provide a LIBZ_CPPFLAGS that points to src/other/zlib instead. |
| 02:01.09 | Maloeran | Sean, how many people get an email every time you commit? :) |
| 02:02.33 | brlcad | heh, dunno exactly |
| 02:03.10 | brlcad | not a massive list, some join all the lists and then shortly after unsubscribe to commits .. :) |
| 02:04.06 | Maloeran | I wonder why! :) |
| 02:07.58 | Twingy | hooray grapes |
| 02:14.13 | Twingy | I love this charger |
| 02:15.01 | Twingy | backlit blue lcd, programmable to charge/discharge user selectable cycles, current, battery type, figures out how many cells in the battery, doesn't get any better |
| 02:20.19 | Twingy | I hate how opengl display lists store the modelview matrix and use that in glGetDoublev instead of the current one |
| 02:23.42 | Twingy | <Raven> I tried setting my hotmail password to penis. <Raven> It said my password wasn't long enough. :( |
| 02:28.39 | louipc | high tech |
| 02:29.31 | Twingy | yep |
| 02:29.35 | Twingy | back in the day |
| 02:29.44 | Twingy | I'd have to wait 15 hours for both batteries to recharge |
| 02:29.52 | Twingy | cause all you had was the trickle charger |
| 02:30.12 | Twingy | granted even today that ensures the longest possible battery life |
| 02:30.31 | Twingy | but I don't mind losing 10% of my battery cycles if I can go from 15 hours to 15 minutes |
| 02:30.59 | Twingy | battery died at the field, time to go home |
| 02:31.10 | Twingy | now if it dies at the field, wait 20 minutes and you are up in the air again |
| 02:31.57 | bjorkBSD | Twingy have you ever read any of gingery's books? |
| 02:32.25 | louipc | I'd like nuclear power in a battery |
| 02:32.59 | Twingy | I don't have time to read books |
| 02:33.08 | Twingy | I'm always building something or writing code |
| 02:33.19 | Twingy | and when I'm not doing that I'm passed out on my bed |
| 02:34.06 | Twingy | the last book I read and enjoyed was NURBS - a Monograph in visual communications |
| 02:35.34 | bjorkBSD | he wrote a series on building a machine shop from scrap. |
| 02:36.07 | Twingy | okay... |
| 02:36.30 | louipc | nice |
| 02:36.57 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:37.01 | louipc | I still wonder how the first straightedge was created |
| 02:37.22 | bjorkBSD | with a spirit level :-j |
| 02:37.33 | louipc | or how they go the first lathes to run perfectly true |
| 02:37.59 | bjorkBSD | it was trial after trial after trial. |
| 02:38.12 | bjorkBSD | then they looked at the horizon and it matched. |
| 02:38.17 | Twingy | louipc, a piece of string and a rock, let gravity do the work? |
| 02:38.35 | bjorkBSD | or they used a string. |
| 02:38.55 | Twingy | that's how I'dve done it *shrug* |
| 02:39.44 | louipc | I'm just imagining to make accurate machines you need machines, but you need them to be very accurate as well |
| 02:40.24 | Twingy | that was true until laser measurement came around |
| 02:40.37 | louipc | but I guess you could make a precise machine from a not-as-precise machine but it would be very tough |
| 02:40.45 | louipc | hehe they didn't have lasers back in the day |
| 02:40.46 | Twingy | now you just use the phase angle and you've got perfect measurement |
| 03:33.04 | Maloeran | What the... Gentoo dropped xmms, for some reason, it's out of the package tree entirely |
| 03:34.09 | Twingy | spyware! |
| 03:34.32 | bjorkBSD | Twingy, what kinda projects do you work on? |
| 03:34.37 | bjorkBSD | ... in your shop, ie. |
| 03:37.35 | Maloeran | Official reason : "Gentoo can't afford to offer unmaintained packages" |
| 03:38.49 | Twingy | bjorkBSD, you mean my garage? |
| 03:39.45 | bjorkBSD | yeah. |
| 03:40.10 | Twingy | well, my big project I'm gearing up for is my next generation rocket motors |
| 03:40.18 | Twingy | getting away from the monopropellant stuff |
| 03:40.31 | Twingy | and to do that I needed a cnc mill and software for it |
| 03:40.35 | louipc | yep gentoo annoyed the heck out of me so I switched to archlinux |
| 03:40.39 | louipc | I love it |
| 03:40.42 | Twingy | and I wasn't about to spend $$$ on cnc software |
| 03:40.52 | Twingy | so I hit source forge |
| 03:40.56 | Twingy | and didn't find crap |
| 03:40.57 | bjorkBSD | heheheh |
| 03:41.02 | bjorkBSD | and now you have to write your own. |
| 03:41.06 | Twingy | right |
| 03:41.09 | Twingy | and 1 year later |
| 03:41.09 | louipc | making packages is easy too I'm making one for BRLCAD |
| 03:41.14 | Twingy | I have cnc software |
| 03:41.19 | bjorkBSD | wonderful! |
| 03:41.24 | Twingy | and now I can make my rocket motors |
| 03:41.35 | Twingy | I still need to be able to make pcb's |
| 03:41.41 | bjorkBSD | i don't have space for a foundry. |
| 03:41.41 | louipc | Twingy: you do 3D work on the CNC? |
| 03:41.46 | Twingy | which requires spending 2-3 weeks parsing gerber files |
| 03:41.54 | bjorkBSD | or i'd be sandcasting the parts for a lathe right now. |
| 03:41.57 | Twingy | louipc, 2.5D planar and soon radial |
| 03:42.13 | Twingy | stop calling it a foundry |
| 03:42.17 | louipc | hehehe |
| 03:42.19 | Twingy | it's a pile of bricks and a $100 torch |
| 03:42.23 | bjorkBSD | hahaha |
| 03:42.38 | bjorkBSD | i'll turn off my gas and call it a space heater. |
| 03:42.44 | bjorkBSD | yours melts everything right? |
| 03:42.47 | louipc | 2.5 = not all 3 Axis at once? |
| 03:42.55 | louipc | *moving at once |
| 03:43.04 | Twingy | it'll sustain 1kg object at 1700F no problem |
| 03:43.21 | Twingy | louipc, 2.5 means it can't do concave |
| 03:43.28 | bjorkBSD | will i win a darwin award if i had it in my kitchen? |
| 03:43.37 | Twingy | you have to build a jig and reposition or use 4th axis radial |
| 03:43.45 | Twingy | no |
| 03:43.53 | Twingy | friend of mine has a taig in his dorm |
| 03:43.54 | louipc | well depends on your cutter |
| 03:43.58 | Twingy | he built a box around it |
| 03:44.04 | Twingy | so swarf doesn't fly everywhere |
| 03:44.13 | bjorkBSD | i can see having a lathe or a mill ... |
| 03:44.14 | louipc | yeah good idea |
| 03:44.24 | bjorkBSD | but the expensive torch is another story. |
| 03:44.26 | louipc | put in some coolant too ;) |
| 03:44.37 | Twingy | you don't need coolant for aluminum |
| 03:45.01 | Twingy | you just run it at 2.0 ipm @ 0.01" layers |
| 03:45.11 | louipc | you can increase your speeds and get better finish |
| 03:45.16 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: test opennurbs regardless of setting. ws, indent to 4 and tab at 8 like everything else for the entire functionality section. |
| 03:45.27 | Twingy | louipc, you can also do a final pass @ 0.001" and get same result |
| 03:45.43 | Twingy | I also polish my stuff |
| 03:45.47 | Twingy | I have a floor drill press |
| 03:45.51 | Twingy | I put in my buffer |
| 03:45.55 | Twingy | hit it with some rouge |
| 03:46.00 | louipc | too many operations! |
| 03:46.00 | Twingy | and spend 30 seconds polishing |
| 03:46.05 | louipc | oh ok hah |
| 03:46.25 | Twingy | depends on if you want it shiney or not |
| 03:46.46 | Twingy | gcam.js.cx |
| 03:46.48 | bjorkBSD | Twingy, do you have a url for your thingIamNotGonnaCallAFurnaceButBurnsRealHot ? |
| 03:46.49 | Twingy | that was polished |
| 03:46.49 | louipc | do you know if there are any addons to emacs or vim for NC editing? |
| 03:47.06 | Twingy | bjorkBSD, http://js.cx/~justin/images/alumiforge2/ |
| 03:47.12 | bjorkBSD | the plans for building one? |
| 03:47.20 | Twingy | louipc, download gcam |
| 03:47.24 | Twingy | you won't need to edit |
| 03:47.32 | Twingy | bjorkBSD, plans? |
| 03:47.38 | louipc | I do a lot of manual programming |
| 03:47.38 | Twingy | goto home depot and spend $10 on bricks |
| 03:47.57 | bjorkBSD | and the torch? |
| 03:47.57 | Twingy | they won't last as long as fire bricks |
| 03:48.03 | Twingy | hybridburners.com |
| 03:48.07 | Twingy | "Shorty" |
| 03:48.24 | louipc | gnucam eh? |
| 03:48.28 | Twingy | got the website from a guy that taught a ray-tracing session at siggraph |
| 03:48.32 | Twingy | louipc, yes |
| 03:49.55 | bjorkBSD | hah! |
| 03:50.10 | bjorkBSD | they're not terribly cheap but it should be manageable :-? |
| 03:50.41 | Twingy | it um, takes some trial and error |
| 03:51.06 | Twingy | eventually your adhoc setup will let you cast decent size blocks of aluminum with minimal air bubbles |
| 03:51.52 | Twingy | just remember that if you spill something like that on your foot it'll dissintegrate it |
| 03:52.37 | Twingy | and once you get a system down, you'll cut your aluminum costs to a quarter |
| 03:52.39 | bjorkBSD | damn! |
| 03:52.48 | Twingy | provided you can get soda cans and scrap aluminum for free |
| 03:53.16 | bjorkBSD | i'll have to fight with the homeless people around here :) |
| 03:53.40 | Twingy | I have more scrap aluminum and cans than I know what to do with right now |
| 03:53.40 | Maloeran | With only 2 feet, that's not too much margin for trial and error |
| 03:53.40 | Twingy | I like to do 50/50 mix of 6061 and 3104 cans |
| 03:53.40 | bjorkBSD | where do you get them from, the recyclers? |
| 03:53.48 | Twingy | work |
| 03:54.09 | Twingy | if you have a recycle day, go around the night before and pilfer them all |
| 03:54.15 | bjorkBSD | hehehe |
| 03:54.30 | Twingy | um, my old chair |
| 03:54.37 | Twingy | had an aluminum base, cut it up on my bandsaw |
| 03:54.42 | Twingy | my network rack is next to go |
| 03:54.53 | Twingy | ~30lbs of aluminum there |
| 03:55.11 | Twingy | just smelt it with 1% zinc |
| 03:55.25 | bjorkBSD | alright. |
| 03:55.29 | Twingy | http://js.cx/~justin/cgi-bin/aluminum.cgi |
| 03:55.45 | Twingy | that's what I charge |
| 03:56.00 | bjorkBSD | cool :) |
| 03:56.07 | bjorkBSD | where do you get the zinc from? |
| 03:56.23 | Twingy | stuff |
| 03:56.44 | Twingy | the zinc fairy |
| 03:56.58 | Twingy | the usual |
| 03:57.03 | bjorkBSD | she must be hawt! |
| 03:58.00 | Twingy | so I aim to have full in-house PCB and cnc production by summer |
| 03:58.14 | bjorkBSD | to launch your satelltes with right? |
| 03:58.17 | bjorkBSD | ... the rockets, ie. |
| 03:58.35 | Twingy | dunno about that, because that much propellant costs alot |
| 03:58.56 | louipc | I'd think you'd need more specialised aluminum for that eh |
| 03:59.00 | Twingy | once I get the engineering and design down it's just a matter of scaling |
| 03:59.16 | Twingy | I haven't revealed my design yet |
| 03:59.23 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:59.33 | Twingy | one of those epiphanies |
| 03:59.34 | bjorkBSD | everything created using open-source software right? |
| 03:59.37 | Maloeran | I'm sure you'll find a couple people willing to donate for such a geeky adventure :) |
| 03:59.39 | Twingy | right |
| 03:59.45 | Twingy | well |
| 03:59.49 | bjorkBSD | the tech undergound. |
| 03:59.54 | Twingy | I'd like to patent the motor and donate to GNU patents |
| 04:00.16 | bjorkBSD | alright mr galt. |
| 04:01.08 | Twingy | I have a trailer for my truck |
| 04:01.13 | Maloeran | "Galt" : To murder a man without knowing |
| 04:01.16 | Twingy | if I scale it up I'll use that as the launch platform |
| 04:01.52 | Twingy | I'll put a tarp on it and drive to ohio where I have FAA clearance |
| 04:02.06 | bjorkBSD | who is john galt, malorean ;) |
| 04:02.15 | bjorkBSD | which part of Ohio/ |
| 04:02.48 | Maloeran | Ah, definitely not someone I know |
| 04:03.17 | Twingy | http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15993507/ |
| 04:04.02 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:04.23 | Twingy | if I have to drive any further I might not do it |
| 04:04.41 | bjorkBSD | baltimore to ohio. |
| 04:04.47 | bjorkBSD | tha'ts a good 12 hrs |
| 04:04.50 | Twingy | yep |
| 04:04.58 | bjorkBSD | never again! |
| 04:05.31 | bjorkBSD | i drove from AR to De over the new years. |
| 04:05.41 | brlcad | 12 hours? maybe to the far west of OH |
| 04:06.05 | brlcad | I make it to detroit from here in 6-8 hours and that takes me through ohio |
| 04:06.06 | bjorkBSD | 25 frigging hrs in my trusty '88 240 dl :) |
| 04:06.47 | bjorkBSD | ah you must have driven through W. Va? |
| 04:06.50 | brlcad | that's a lot of bathroom breaks :) |
| 04:07.11 | bjorkBSD | 3 hrs of sleep and maybe 3 breaks. |
| 04:07.15 | brlcad | i've gone the wva route before, but it's not really faster .. spend a lot of time winding through the mountains |
| 04:07.44 | bjorkBSD | not counting the endless refueling stops. |
| 04:07.46 | brlcad | across pa turnpike into ohio |
| 04:07.47 | Twingy | in any case, it'll be fun |
| 04:07.49 | bjorkBSD | those bricks are HEAVY! |
| 04:08.15 | Twingy | ? |
| 04:08.54 | bjorkBSD | a 240DL stationwagon is a brick. |
| 04:13.19 | Twingy | next release of gcam after tonight will be stable |
| 04:13.30 | louipc | nice! |
| 04:13.36 | Twingy | only took a year right? |
| 04:13.52 | louipc | that's pretty good |
| 04:15.48 | Twingy | well it's a pretty simple program |
| 04:15.54 | Twingy | it's just got alot of caveats |
| 04:15.58 | louipc | I've only ever noticed projects here and there that are in 'planning' phase |
| 04:16.07 | Twingy | heh |
| 04:16.10 | louipc | never releasing any code |
| 04:16.14 | Twingy | I skip right over planning and go into coding |
| 04:16.17 | louipc | I mean in the CAM arena |
| 04:16.22 | louipc | for open source |
| 04:16.31 | Twingy | most CAM people are computer scientists |
| 04:16.41 | Twingy | machinists + computer scientists are a rare breed |
| 04:16.54 | Twingy | *aren't |
| 04:16.57 | Twingy | meh |
| 04:17.00 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:17.02 | Twingy | you get my drift |
| 04:17.07 | bjorkBSD | yeah. |
| 04:17.35 | louipc | aren't? so why isn't there an open source package rivaling mastercam? |
| 04:17.47 | louipc | who wants to pay $30,000 in licensing fees |
| 04:18.24 | Twingy | I'm not trying to rival mastercam |
| 04:18.29 | Twingy | mastercam is overly complicated |
| 04:18.29 | bjorkBSD | what's mastercam? |
| 04:18.39 | Twingy | it's like brl-cad |
| 04:18.42 | Twingy | it does everything |
| 04:18.48 | Twingy | I'm not trying to do everything |
| 04:18.52 | Twingy | simpler the better |
| 04:18.58 | bjorkBSD | the unix way |
| 04:19.01 | louipc | yeah mastercam could be a bit simpler |
| 04:19.07 | louipc | hehe |
| 04:19.12 | Twingy | instead of completely extracting the user from the machine |
| 04:19.13 | bjorkBSD | louipc, are you a machinist too? |
| 04:19.18 | louipc | yeap |
| 04:19.22 | Twingy | the user thinks in terms of what their machine will be doing as they model |
| 04:19.25 | Twingy | that's the gcam model |
| 04:19.45 | Twingy | I don't like the idea of sitting down to a computer, making a 3d model |
| 04:19.54 | Twingy | and having the computer choose the "best" tool paths |
| 04:19.56 | louipc | but I'm no computer scientist.. more like a hobbist |
| 04:20.08 | Twingy | I like to control what my machine is doing and in what order |
| 04:20.16 | bjorkBSD | cool :) |
| 04:20.30 | Twingy | as complex as gcam will get is probly contour pocketing |
| 04:20.38 | Twingy | right now it does simple zig zag pocketing |
| 04:20.57 | Twingy | calculating the tool offsets for multiple level hierchies was a headache |
| 04:21.23 | louipc | yeah I agree with that, the computer can make really stupid unnecessary movements |
| 04:21.29 | Twingy | it takes the pro-engineer philosophy of sketching something and extruding it |
| 04:21.32 | louipc | that's why I like to program manually heh |
| 04:22.09 | Twingy | if some one wants to go in and make gcam have pretty anisotropic globally illuminated 3d shaded models that's fine |
| 04:22.12 | Twingy | but wire frame is fine |
| 04:22.34 | louipc | that would be nice |
| 04:22.44 | Twingy | seems overzealous to me |
| 04:22.53 | Twingy | eventually I want to have assemblies |
| 04:23.03 | Twingy | so I take something big "like a submarine" |
| 04:23.10 | Twingy | and I break it into parts I can mill on my taig |
| 04:23.15 | louipc | wire frame can numb the brain I find |
| 04:23.20 | Twingy | see the whole thing and see just the part I'm going to cnc mill |
| 04:23.40 | Twingy | for example |
| 04:23.41 | louipc | hehe so you're taking on catia then eh? |
| 04:23.49 | Twingy | imagine if after you get down to the lowest region in brl-cad |
| 04:23.52 | bjorkBSD | i thought brl-cad > catia :P |
| 04:23.59 | Twingy | you had gcam that displayed the tool paths |
| 04:24.04 | Twingy | for cutting that hmmwv |
| 04:25.12 | louipc | yeah that would be great |
| 04:25.12 | brlcad | catia is mostly a different market |
| 04:25.32 | brlcad | and considerably more developed on the interface side of things on many levels (they've had billions invested) |
| 04:26.12 | Twingy | gcam has had about $60 invested :) |
| 04:26.29 | brlcad | heh, not quite :) |
| 04:26.37 | brlcad | you're time is worth more than 0.02 cents :) |
| 04:26.45 | Twingy | don't kid yourself! :) |
| 04:26.47 | brlcad | heh |
| 04:27.01 | Twingy | 0.015 cents tops |
| 04:27.10 | Twingy | you act like I know how to write code or something |
| 04:27.26 | Twingy | look at photon mapping! |
| 04:27.30 | Twingy | nuff said |
| 04:27.41 | brlcad | heh |
| 04:29.20 | Twingy | PEANUT BUTTAH JELLY TIME! |
| 04:29.30 | brlcad | where it at, where it at |
| 04:29.31 | louipc | oh yea |
| 04:29.49 | Twingy | where are you living now? |
| 04:32.19 | brlcad | with a baseball bat? |
| 04:32.54 | Twingy | you're living with a baseball bat? |
| 04:33.22 | brlcad | peanut butter jelly with a baseball bat! |
| 04:33.51 | Twingy | where it at where it at! |
| 04:37.52 | Twingy | k |
| 04:37.57 | Twingy | windows portage |
| 04:41.47 | Twingy | http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/01/boston.bombscare/ |
| 04:42.54 | louipc | they would answer questions only about hair awesome |
| 04:51.41 | louipc | Twingy will you set up a CVS or SVN server for gcam eventually? |
| 05:34.14 | Twingy | once I finish cleaning a few things up |
| 05:34.46 | Twingy | I don't want to see things thing get bloated with goofy features |
| 05:35.15 | Twingy | I think it's going to attract a bunch of people that just learned how to write c++ code and want to add buttons galore |
| 05:44.42 | louipc | hehe |
| 05:45.16 | louipc | what's that version of emacs that brlcad uses? |
| 05:47.55 | Twingy | http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7424511&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat107700050032&id=1122655672294 |
| 05:48.15 | bjorkBSD | louipc, jove |
| 05:48.26 | louipc | ah right |
| 05:48.29 | bjorkBSD | it's scary. none of the vi commands work in it. |
| 05:48.37 | louipc | jeff's own version of emacs? |
| 05:48.49 | louipc | or john |
| 05:49.01 | bjorkBSD | jonathan |
| 05:49.30 | louipc | why should vi commands work in emacs?... but you could probably set it up to do so |
| 05:50.18 | louipc | Twingy: sweeet |
| 05:51.03 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:51.34 | brlcad | it's not exactly a "version of emacs", save a fork from a really long time ago when emacs was but a baby |
| 05:51.51 | brlcad | there is a vi-mode for emacs |
| 05:52.05 | louipc | that's what I mean 'a fork' |
| 05:52.56 | bjorkBSD | i was being silly. |
| 05:53.41 | louipc | nah i think it's silly that there's a vi-mode |
| 05:53.58 | bjorkBSD | i think it's awesome. |
| 05:54.06 | bjorkBSD | it makes emacs more useable. |
| 05:54.11 | louipc | why not just use vim? hah |
| 05:54.12 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:54.40 | bjorkBSD | a text editor w/o modes. that's just wrong. |
| 05:54.59 | louipc | feels right to me |
| 05:55.07 | bjorkBSD | mged has 6 modes! that's even better. |
| 05:55.13 | louipc | I grew up with windows ahem |
| 05:55.27 | bjorkBSD | i grew up with dos and as soon as i could, i abandoned it. |
| 05:55.31 | bjorkBSD | *spits on it* |
| 05:55.32 | louipc | but I'm only using vim now ... to educate myself |
| 05:55.45 | bjorkBSD | the fastest way is to use ed :) |
| 05:55.52 | bjorkBSD | you'll be forced to learn what you need to. |
| 05:56.06 | bjorkBSD | ... and in no time at all. |
| 05:56.07 | louipc | and it seems less needlessly huge than emacs |
| 05:59.16 | louipc | ohh ed nooo |
| 06:37.16 | Maloeran | http://darkmonkey.org.uk/4/1/1153390177481.jpg |
| 06:37.51 | louipc | ! |
| 06:46.49 | brlcad | heh, that's quite a lot of moving parts |
| 06:47.33 | brlcad | apparently 256GB/drive if I count correctly, not too shabby |
| 07:01.09 | brlcad | wow, I like this guy's /. comment .. can be applied to most religion wars |
| 07:01.11 | brlcad | "Linux is like a religion for people who really ought to be putting their intelligence to better use than a religion. Stop wasting time thinking of ways to get your neighbours to accept Linux as their personal saviour from malware, and start teaching yourself C++ and get to work improving things." |
| 07:07.00 | Maloeran | A healthy dose of advertissing is still necessary, even if such words of mouth is no match for Microsoft's marketing budget for example |
| 07:08.23 | Maloeran | I don't think there's an unbalanced amount of Linux zealots in comparison to other aspects of life. Some people out here pratically live for some sportive team, their future car or next television |
| 07:13.06 | brlcad | what you mean by "unbalanced" is certainly curious, but sure there are fans and beliefs in just about every aspect of life |
| 07:13.27 | brlcad | the whole argument is probably a difference on whether that advertising really is necessary or not |
| 07:14.07 | brlcad | proof by action, example, and advancement or by what effectively amounts to manipulation or convincing |
| 07:14.22 | brlcad | merit to both sides I think |
| 07:18.42 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/rle_getraw.h: remove the obsolete rle_getraw.h header .. was renamed to rle_raw.h in a prior urt update |
| 07:20.36 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/Makefile.am: reorder |
| 07:21.00 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (28 files in 12 dirs): |
| 07:21.00 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: remove the libutahrle headers (utah raster toolkit) from our include/ directory, |
| 07:21.00 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: and move them up to src/other/libutahrle/include. let configure set |
| 07:21.00 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: RLE_CPPFLAGS and set accordingly amongst the various tools/libraries that need |
| 07:21.00 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: to know the path. |
| 07:50.38 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: provide CPPFLAGS for tcl, tk, itcl, itk, and termlib |
| 08:02.22 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (8 files in 6 dirs): move libterm.h back to termlib's own directory and make everyone use TERMLIB_CPPFLAGS to get the search path |
| 08:44.21 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (10 files in 4 dirs): remove the itcl/itk header files from our include/ directory, moving them back up to src/other/incrTcl. utilize the new ITCL_CPPFLAGS and ITK_CPPFLAGS accordingly. |
| 10:34.42 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (56 files in 50 dirs): |
| 10:34.42 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: *yawn* remove one of the big two remaining public header sets from our include/ |
| 10:34.42 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: directory. remove tcl headers from include/ and utilize the TCL_CPPFLAGS so |
| 10:34.42 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: compilation pulls headers from within src/other/libtcl instead. since bu.h and |
| 10:34.42 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: raytrace.h include tcl foo, this implicates a change across almost the entire |
| 10:34.45 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: build to add the new CPPFLAGS. |
| 10:35.09 | brlcad | i suppose that's enough damage for now |
| 10:42.56 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (7 files in 7 dirs): take a blind guess that since these parts of adrt have/use bu.h that they similarly need tcl_cppflags now too |
| 13:26.40 | *** join/#brlcad cad60 (n=a87ebb52@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 13:26.49 | cad60 | hello |
| 13:26.55 | cad60 | hello~ |
| 13:27.00 | cad60 | anyone here?? |
| 13:38.33 | ``Erik | heh |
| 13:44.37 | archivist | 2 nano seconds to answer else timeout |
| 14:03.30 | ``Erik | children these days have no patience. |
| 16:00.22 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 18:46.40 | *** join/#brlcad bobbens (n=bobbens@84.16.237.134) |
| 19:08.38 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/Makefile.am: group the converters with their flags, sort. |
| 20:07.25 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (19 files in 12 dirs): last one, remove the tk headers from our include/ directory. use the TK_CPPFLAGS automake variable instead, pointing to the headers in src/other/libtk/generic/ dir |
| 22:55.08 | *** join/#brlcad iday (n=iday@c-68-50-191-200.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 22:55.21 | *** part/#brlcad iday (n=iday@c-68-50-191-200.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
