| 00:00.00 | arossdotme | never mind |
| 00:00.07 | P-G | You want to know if the problem is real? |
| 00:00.20 | arossdotme | you anwsered what i was wondering |
| 00:00.29 | P-G | What was it? :p |
| 00:00.57 | arossdotme | that i thought you though it was something else like a give to the poor pepole in aficac advert |
| 00:01.20 | P-G | Oh, no, but that would be a good example of hardware redistribution models. |
| 00:01.29 | arossdotme | ok |
| 00:01.42 | P-G | That could work well for them but it would be more of a means to an end. |
| 00:02.07 | P-G | Or maybe an end in and of itself but not sustainable. |
| 00:02.21 | arossdotme | :/ ? |
| 00:02.58 | P-G | In order to be sustainable, they need to convince people (companies) that their standards are worth adopting. That cutomers care about it or allow for government subsidies. |
| 00:03.41 | P-G | Giving electronics to the poor does not do that but it is very good P.R. and it addresses the issue of what to do once the products reach their end of life. |
| 00:03.59 | arossdotme | gov subsidies? i doesn't compute in my brain |
| 00:04.17 | P-G | It's money. |
| 00:04.30 | P-G | Money is what lets an organisation continue. |
| 00:04.38 | arossdotme | :), yes yes |
| 00:04.41 | P-G | So what are they selling? |
| 00:04.49 | arossdotme | products |
| 00:04.52 | P-G | Nope. |
| 00:04.56 | arossdotme | nope? |
| 00:05.00 | arossdotme | what? |
| 00:05.07 | P-G | The products seem like they're just to attract donation money. |
| 00:05.17 | P-G | It's necessary to start up but not a long term plan. |
| 00:05.25 | P-G | Or at least not a part of their core business model. |
| 00:06.02 | P-G | Like I said, they want people (businesses and governments) to adopt their standards. |
| 00:06.13 | P-G | That makes them more popular, more famous, and they grow their brand. |
| 00:06.21 | arossdotme | i don't remmber that being the goal |
| 00:06.42 | arossdotme | it would help but it's not nessory |
| 00:06.58 | P-G | That is the only impression I get from their website. |
| 00:07.01 | arossdotme | help as in = makes for a lot of orders |
| 00:07.15 | arossdotme | oh |
| 00:07.33 | P-G | I mean, they are selling the products but that's not what they're about. It's not their core model. |
| 00:09.02 | P-G | If you really want to know, go ahead and ask them directly. I'm just observing the website. |
| 00:09.07 | arossdotme | oh hmm |
| 00:09.45 | arossdotme | i've been watching and reading the mailing list for a few years now, i think i've read every thing on the website, not recently though |
| 00:10.04 | arossdotme | and interracting on the maing list |
| 00:10.24 | P-G | They mostly talk engineering? |
| 00:10.38 | arossdotme | so things is kind-a err cofindering my undertsanding |
| 00:10.48 | arossdotme | confodering |
| 00:10.55 | arossdotme | a fake word |
| 00:11.27 | arossdotme | umm they talk techinals yes but also other sides of things |
| 00:12.03 | arossdotme | if you dig deep enought theres bits/chucnks here and here |
| 00:12.45 | arossdotme | so it's insitfull to see what you think it is vs my understanding |
| 00:12.53 | arossdotme | insightful |
| 00:13.41 | P-G | I always judge an organisation by its marketing, it gives a very simple and reliable perspective on things. I don't claim to be an expert but it has worked pretty well for me so far. |
| 00:14.19 | arossdotme | yes, i agree but in this case i've jugent it by the pepole behind it |
| 00:14.46 | arossdotme | i see the market needs work :D |
| 00:14.50 | arossdotme | marketing |
| 00:15.18 | P-G | Sometimes good people can make something work when it normally wouldn't but the general marketing tells you what they think is important. I don't see that being focused in the right directions. |
| 00:15.29 | P-G | Maybe I'm totally wrong though, who knows. |
| 00:15.55 | arossdotme | i'll juge things by there adverts. which means hehe if they advertised there rubbish |
| 00:16.27 | arossdotme | hmm, i think i've reach my limit |
| 00:16.52 | arossdotme | in understanding.. maybe i need some time to precoess |
| 00:16.56 | arossdotme | process |
| 00:17.41 | P-G | Lol, ok. Try cooling off for a day or two, reading that long message I posted, then looking over their site again from the start. |
| 00:18.39 | arossdotme | arr somethings though i think pulling in someone else helps too though... maybe it's time to call in luke... |
| 00:18.48 | arossdotme | sometimes |
| 00:19.01 | P-G | Luke? |
| 00:19.12 | arossdotme | the guy beihind it |
| 00:19.28 | arossdotme | aka lkcl |
| 00:19.46 | P-G | Oh, sure. Try looking at the site with fresh eyes if it's been a while but definitely ask them directly if you can. |
| 00:20.07 | arossdotme | heck this is the irc for the channl |
| 00:20.19 | arossdotme | for the cannel ... waht i eman for the project |
| 00:20.27 | P-G | But nobody's commenting. :p |
| 00:20.39 | arossdotme | cus he ant been msged |
| 00:20.57 | arossdotme | lkcl: hay disscuion of interst ^ |
| 00:22.02 | arossdotme | see log from #neo900 is: http://neo900.org | conversations are logged to http://infobot.rikers.org/%23neo900/ and http://irclog.whitequark.org/neo900 for context |
| 00:22.13 | arossdotme | todays log |
| 00:22.14 | P-G | Don't make him deal with all that. |
| 00:22.17 | P-G | Jeeze. |
| 00:22.35 | arossdotme | }) |
| 00:22.58 | P-G | Basically you just want to know where they want to be as an organisation in about five years, right? |
| 00:23.31 | P-G | Where they want to be and how they plan to get there. That's a business plan. |
| 00:23.34 | arossdotme | just posting the link so he can, not making him |
| 00:24.16 | arossdotme | oh yea that reminds me someone asked me to ask tomething like but but then i forgot the wording of the question and then i forget to ask it..... |
| 00:24.39 | P-G | >_> |
| 00:24.57 | P-G | First you need to figure out what you want to know, lol. |
| 00:25.21 | arossdotme | jokling: idk hehe |
| 00:26.58 | arossdotme | hmm, i'd have to think about that |
| 00:37.44 | arossdotme | hmm i don't see what you mean the there biz model isn't produccts when i look at this: http://rhombus-tech.net/how/ |
| 00:38.28 | arossdotme | maybe calling it a standard convays a differnt thinking |
| 00:38.35 | arossdotme | instead of specifcation |
| 00:39.01 | arossdotme | i don't see it needed to be adopted my .coms |
| 00:39.13 | arossdotme | just do it ones self |
| 00:39.20 | arossdotme | make prodcuts |
| 00:39.26 | arossdotme | products |
| 00:40.18 | arossdotme | over time build up a user base and other biz might then take more notice and rethink about them elses |
| 00:40.49 | arossdotme | they can addport it for the future stuff and if not so what, rhombus-tech continul |
| 00:40.53 | arossdotme | continue |
| 00:41.10 | arossdotme | making there own projucts |
| 00:41.14 | arossdotme | devices |
| 00:43.43 | arossdotme | but unlike other products where only the original company could make them, which rombus-tech anyone else can, they might not beable to say eoma-68 unless they pay some mony but then can still do something |
| 00:45.01 | arossdotme | but i'd would have thought they would contribute and so also get the name to use on there products which they only get if there compliant anyway |
| 00:45.30 | arossdotme | some brand control to help users |
| 00:46.05 | arossdotme | i digress |
| 00:46.42 | arossdotme | a key word i'm think is rombus-tech can and will i guess grow organically |
| 00:46.49 | arossdotme | i'm thinking |
| 00:48.03 | arossdotme | it's not like winells lightsparck that needs others to adopt it |
| 00:48.07 | arossdotme | wintells |
| 00:48.20 | arossdotme | wIntel's |
| 00:48.31 | arossdotme | lightspark |
| 00:49.39 | arossdotme | i should mark corrections to avod confusion with what i post later |
| 00:54.49 | P-G | Standard and specification do have slightly different connotations but they should amount to the same thing. |
| 00:54.57 | P-G | Think of Intel's Nook platform. |
| 00:56.27 | arossdotme | nook.... |
| 00:56.53 | P-G | It's not a product, it's a standard. |
| 00:57.48 | P-G | That's not to say you can't also make and sell products but that is not in line with your mission to reduce e-waste. |
| 00:58.52 | P-G | To have a significant impact on e-waste, you would license the standard out to big companies. That is a marketing battle since you first need to convince them that it would be worth their money. You need to be very popular and make them look good. |
| 00:59.09 | P-G | Your marketing is not designed in this way. |
| 01:00.27 | P-G | The only alternatives I can imagine would be to simply sell the products, which does not seem to be the case because then the mission to reduce e-waste is irrelevant, and to reduce e-waste specifically of people who use the product(s), which is probably too specific a niche. |
| 01:01.46 | P-G | Regardless of the business model, I don't think your marketing is strong enough. If you aren't sure which model is appropriate, consider which you are best positioned to leverage or which is most important to your constituents. |
| 01:02.12 | P-G | It's really not that complicated, I'm probably making it more confusing than it needs to be. |
| 01:03.03 | P-G | Also, for the record, I only read over the site quickly. My opinion is not some deep analysis, it's just the impression I get as a visitor. |
| 01:17.13 | arossdotme | depends on where you set your goals for reducing ewaste |
| 01:19.26 | P-G | You could look at it that way but reducing your own ewaste will not have a profound affect on our global problems. Your organisation would need to scale larger than Google to justify that approach to an ecological problem. |
| 01:19.27 | arossdotme | i think the big coms i don't think are interested, i think the only way is a organic way. so what if only users of products benift, you have to start somewhere. even if it's small. i think this project should be able to overtake the compotision |
| 01:20.00 | arossdotme | correction: small amount of users to begin with |
| 01:20.16 | arossdotme | competition |
| 01:21.08 | P-G | It may have a following and it may affect some larger industry directions but I don't think it's realistic to expect to change the world with a product. |
| 01:21.21 | arossdotme | to deal head one with the status quo would mean playing corporate games wiich means becomming part evil at least |
| 01:21.34 | arossdotme | oh no |
| 01:21.40 | arossdotme | it's down to pepole |
| 01:21.59 | arossdotme | but it's a relitly small part of teh change thats needed |
| 01:22.05 | arossdotme | relatively |
| 01:23.03 | P-G | Selling bottom up is a fine business model but in that case, you would want your products and marketing to be more oriented towards end users. |
| 01:23.38 | P-G | Right now, it seems like you're trying to go top down and use the donations to ramp up. |
| 01:24.25 | arossdotme | i don't have faith in orgs that "work" with the industry |
| 01:24.25 | P-G | Your website needs to convince people to use your product because it is more ecologically friendly. That is not your current position. |
| 01:24.38 | arossdotme | hmm food for thought |
| 01:25.04 | arossdotme | i think this marketing came about from trying to piggy bag on the marecting secess of phone blocks |
| 01:25.11 | arossdotme | bag=bacl |
| 01:25.13 | arossdotme | back |
| 01:25.18 | arossdotme | markecting |
| 01:25.26 | arossdotme | success |
| 01:25.34 | arossdotme | dam spelling mistakes |
| 01:25.39 | P-G | I can't understand what you're saying. :p |
| 01:25.50 | arossdotme | dam not being able to see what i'm typing in pidgin |
| 01:26.00 | P-G | Ah. |
| 01:26.01 | arossdotme | stupid bug |
| 01:26.10 | arossdotme | old pidgin in debain stable :( |
| 01:26.15 | arossdotme | need to switch |
| 01:26.27 | P-G | Just install a dedicated client. |
| 01:26.53 | arossdotme | i used xchat but then i needed OTR and i needed to connect to freenode to chat with someone |
| 01:27.28 | arossdotme | i used switch my icr for the moment to my laptop which has trisquel on it |
| 01:27.33 | arossdotme | or use issris |
| 01:27.36 | arossdotme | isris |
| 01:27.45 | arossdotme | what ever that irc clint is called |
| 01:27.54 | P-G | irssi |
| 01:27.57 | arossdotme | yea |
| 01:28.07 | arossdotme | but its a learning cuve... |
| 01:28.20 | P-G | Xchat is easy. Irssi and Weechat are popular, I think. |
| 01:28.47 | arossdotme | xchat is easy but a pain ssl wise, have to manual setup and no OTR plugin |
| 01:29.04 | P-G | How manual is the setup? |
| 01:29.29 | arossdotme | tell it to use in in the settings for each channel, wheres pidgin is one checkbox |
| 01:29.40 | arossdotme | per server |
| 01:29.52 | arossdotme | correction earch server |
| 01:30.20 | arossdotme | any way this is a disstraction |
| 01:30.49 | arossdotme | you know of phoneblocks? |
| 01:31.05 | P-G | I don't think so. |
| 01:31.11 | arossdotme | http://phonebloks.com/ |
| 01:31.21 | P-G | Oh yeah. |
| 01:31.24 | P-G | Vaguely. |
| 01:31.47 | P-G | I like that project. |
| 01:32.01 | arossdotme | big marketing only success, luke was trying to piggy back on it, use to to brack though |
| 01:32.04 | P-G | I don't know anything about their technical designs but their marketing is good. |
| 01:32.10 | arossdotme | there you go |
| 01:32.34 | arossdotme | well phone blocks is just bloody marketing, rhombus-tech is real product! |
| 01:32.47 | arossdotme | for a diffent try of devices |
| 01:32.52 | arossdotme | try=type |
| 01:33.22 | arossdotme | like phoneblocks then you'll love rhombus-tech :) |
| 01:33.27 | arossdotme | etc,etc |
| 01:33.32 | P-G | Yeah, piggy backing on their idea is fine. |
| 01:33.41 | arossdotme | not on there idea, there market |
| 01:33.42 | arossdotme | ing |
| 01:33.45 | P-G | Your marketing just isn't good enough and I don't understand your business model. |
| 01:33.53 | arossdotme | mmh |
| 01:33.55 | arossdotme | yes |
| 01:34.14 | P-G | The best product in the world won't sell without marketing. |
| 01:34.18 | arossdotme | but there isn't anyone that has dedcated them selse to the tak |
| 01:34.29 | arossdotme | i've tried a bit but i'm not good enough |
| 01:34.34 | arossdotme | got a lot to lean |
| 01:34.38 | arossdotme | learn |
| 01:34.43 | arossdotme | my self |
| 01:34.46 | P-G | Even with decent marketing and a great product, it's very hard to carve out a place in the industry. |
| 01:34.54 | P-G | Tech is competitive. |
| 01:34.59 | arossdotme | i think there already is a place |
| 01:35.18 | P-G | There is never a place waiting for you, you need to make it. |
| 01:35.31 | arossdotme | you want libre software frendly devices/laptop, otheres want eco devices (re phone bloocks) |
| 01:35.49 | P-G | People aren't looking around for modular phones. You have to show them that they want it. |
| 01:35.55 | arossdotme | the desior needs filling |
| 01:35.57 | arossdotme | yes yes i know |
| 01:36.02 | arossdotme | it's not that simple |
| 01:37.07 | arossdotme | they havn't gone "i know what i need instead of this status quo bull shit... i sall search for rhombus-tech" cus the don't know what to search nor do they know what they want, what the anwser is |
| 01:37.23 | arossdotme | nor what the anwser is |
| 01:37.40 | P-G | Right, it all comes down to marketing. |
| 01:37.58 | arossdotme | i know and this is want i 've been stuck with. i want to help but i'm stuck |
| 01:38.06 | arossdotme | heck heres my wiki pages |
| 01:38.23 | arossdotme | http://rhombus-tech.net/op:marketing/ |
| 01:40.06 | arossdotme | feel free to dump and thoughts there or a wiki page and link it there |
| 01:40.11 | P-G | That's good information. |
| 01:40.23 | arossdotme | i might try to thougths from this chat there |
| 01:40.37 | arossdotme | note the last edit date... what was it in fact |
| 01:41.09 | arossdotme | 08 Nov 2014 |
| 01:41.13 | arossdotme | that was a while ago |
| 01:41.20 | arossdotme | i've been stuck for a long time |
| 01:41.33 | arossdotme | hm |
| 01:41.34 | P-G | Before anything, I think you should get together and decide where you want to be then what you need to do to get there. |
| 01:41.50 | arossdotme | remind i'm not from the project |
| 01:41.58 | arossdotme | i like the project thats all |
| 01:42.04 | arossdotme | and want to help ot |
| 01:42.06 | arossdotme | it |
| 01:42.11 | P-G | That doesn't change what needs to be done. |
| 01:42.17 | arossdotme | direct comments at luke |
| 01:42.18 | arossdotme | yes |
| 01:42.24 | arossdotme | just covering my self |
| 01:43.02 | P-G | I don't know him but if he's good, he'll know the marketing is important. |
| 01:43.14 | P-G | The question then is what to do about it. |
| 01:43.22 | arossdotme | he knews |
| 01:43.42 | P-G | Then this is not an issue. |
| 01:44.05 | arossdotme | but it's just him theres a few others helping on the mailing list but no full time team |
| 01:44.25 | P-G | Then offer to help with the marketing. |
| 01:44.27 | arossdotme | so it don' tget the full time it needs see |
| 01:44.58 | arossdotme | i have but ... sigh.. i'lm stuck and not spent any more time thinking about it |
| 01:45.11 | P-G | Marketing is not complicated, it's just counter-intuitive. Pick up a copy of Marketing for Dummies. :p |
| 01:45.19 | arossdotme | :) |
| 01:45.27 | P-G | Those For Dummies books are great. |
| 01:45.45 | arossdotme | i can't be trained i have to work it out for my self (with help from others) |
| 01:45.55 | arossdotme | and help form talks,etc |
| 01:46.47 | arossdotme | also personal had concerns that is was sucking up time when i had other things to work on...~ |
| 01:47.00 | arossdotme | but arrgh |
| 01:47.29 | P-G | You're thinking too much. |
| 01:47.42 | P-G | You don't need active marketing, just a strong website. |
| 01:47.55 | P-G | Set it up once and update certain parts of it as necessary. |
| 01:47.59 | P-G | Shouldn't take much time. |
| 01:49.32 | arossdotme | i was asking today on #neo900 becuase lukes was asking for testimonials |
| 01:49.52 | P-G | Testimonials? |
| 01:49.55 | arossdotme | for the webstie |
| 01:50.01 | P-G | More like a review. |
| 01:50.10 | P-G | But that's good information. |
| 01:50.21 | arossdotme | testimonials for the work hes doing |
| 01:50.42 | arossdotme | but yea |
| 01:50.49 | arossdotme | dam my back |
| 01:50.55 | P-G | Well, I get the feeling the marketing isn't really his focus but give him that lengthy message I posted. |
| 01:50.57 | arossdotme | done it in |
| 01:51.13 | arossdotme | he weill get it when he looks at his irc |
| 01:51.24 | P-G | If you say so. |
| 01:51.36 | arossdotme | lkcl: ping |
| 01:51.55 | P-G | Why do you expect him to dig through all those logs? |
| 01:51.57 | arossdotme | hes very good at replying back promtly |
| 01:52.00 | P-G | Use a third party website? |
| 01:52.21 | arossdotme | cus then it gets done |
| 01:52.27 | P-G | Very poor logistics. |
| 01:52.38 | arossdotme | i'm poor at sumursing |
| 01:52.43 | P-G | Much more sensible to copy/paste it... |
| 01:52.59 | P-G | Instead you paste a link to the log site for another channel. |
| 01:53.09 | arossdotme | oh that yes, not idea |
| 01:53.12 | arossdotme | ideal |
| 01:53.22 | P-G | From a marketing perspective, you just lost a customer. |
| 01:53.22 | arossdotme | it's lazy of me |
| 01:53.30 | arossdotme | thats just me |
| 01:53.36 | P-G | You want to make it as accessible as possible. |
| 01:53.37 | arossdotme | don't blame rhombus-tech |
| 01:53.54 | P-G | Why not? |
| 01:54.03 | arossdotme | cus i'm not rhombus-tech |
| 01:54.07 | P-G | You work for them, you represent them. |
| 01:54.09 | arossdotme | i've a lazy ass teen |
| 01:54.15 | arossdotme | i said i didn't! |
| 01:54.20 | P-G | You do though. :p |
| 01:54.24 | arossdotme | no idea |
| 01:54.27 | arossdotme | karr |
| 01:54.30 | arossdotme | don't |
| 01:54.33 | arossdotme | not idea |
| 01:54.41 | arossdotme | what a typo |
| 01:54.45 | P-G | Yeah... |
| 01:54.52 | P-G | You might want to practice typing slower. :p |
| 01:54.52 | arossdotme | i just made a account on the wiki |
| 01:55.03 | arossdotme | you can too know know |
| 01:55.49 | P-G | "<arossdotme> i was asking today on #neo900 becuase lukes was asking for testimonials" |
| 01:56.07 | P-G | That's work. |
| 01:56.09 | arossdotme | arrgh |
| 01:56.17 | arossdotme | cus i wanted to help a bit |
| 01:56.22 | P-G | That's nice. |
| 01:56.29 | arossdotme | he was alking on the public mailing list dam it |
| 01:56.33 | arossdotme | asking |
| 01:56.42 | P-G | Fine, that's good. |
| 01:56.47 | P-G | It's still work. :p |
| 01:56.55 | arossdotme | oh dear |
| 01:57.16 | arossdotme | see i'm not good at this |
| 01:57.31 | arossdotme | oh wait i'm not a teen anymore... i'm 20 now eek! |
| 01:57.58 | P-G | Lol. You aren't really bad, you just have a few weak points. Like spelling and communication. |
| 01:58.14 | P-G | You're willing to do what needs to be done, that's really the most important thing. |
| 01:59.20 | arossdotme | frankly i didn't think it was that hard to find the few paragraphs in the log and i would have to find the date on the webstie jsut like luke would have to so it would make it a bit easyer for him but on the other hand posted the raw link gtets the job done |
| 02:00.59 | arossdotme | i have too many unfinished drafts due to the editing not being finished, so i'm taking ugle short cuts to i can move on and not get held up buy little things, ok i don't give poor luke good will by giving him the direct link... |
| 02:01.36 | arossdotme | i fell iike i should now |
| 02:02.01 | arossdotme | i don't borthing copying pasting the cat as i feel it's better to have a link to the orginal souce |
| 02:02.08 | arossdotme | cat loil= chat |
| 02:02.17 | P-G | Lol, it's not that hard but you could just copy it from the channel chat. |
| 02:02.32 | P-G | You are still there. |
| 02:02.35 | arossdotme | i know but it's messy |
| 02:02.47 | arossdotme | right i should get to bed anyway |
| 02:02.56 | arossdotme | if i'm to get up soon enough |
| 02:03.01 | P-G | Ok, sleep well. |
| 02:03.11 | arossdotme | not feeling tired though... |
| 02:03.32 | arossdotme | well a warm bath would improv my bad back |
| 02:03.43 | arossdotme | thanks for that chat |
| 02:03.50 | arossdotme | so much for one or two questions |
| 02:03.55 | arossdotme | ;) |
| 02:03.57 | P-G | Lol, no worries. |
| 02:04.04 | P-G | Tell Luke he can track me down if he has questions. |
| 02:04.04 | arossdotme | that chat= the chat |
| 02:04.32 | arossdotme | ok |
| 02:04.53 | P-G | And do buy those marketing books if you're interested. It's fun stuff. |
| 02:05.03 | arossdotme | mhh :| |
| 02:05.12 | P-G | Reading is very underrated as an educational resource. |
| 02:05.26 | arossdotme | more reading... and risking comtamination of they mind |
| 02:05.30 | arossdotme | thy |
| 02:05.35 | arossdotme | they=thy |
| 02:05.54 | P-G | Learning is good for you. |
| 02:06.00 | P-G | Learn to love it. :p |
| 02:06.00 | arossdotme | contamination of thy mind if it's a bad book |
| 02:06.12 | P-G | Then get good ones. |
| 02:06.13 | arossdotme | i like leaning it's just... |
| 02:06.34 | arossdotme | maybe i'll give my self th eboot |
| 02:06.51 | P-G | Wikipedia gives you your base info, vet the books based on the base info, then read the book if it looks decent. |
| 02:07.11 | P-G | You can also ask for recommendations. |
| 02:07.25 | P-G | Marketing for Dummies is actually a good place to start. |
| 02:07.51 | arossdotme | currently i have chats about stuff with people who understand marketing on tue's at a space i go to |
| 02:08.18 | arossdotme | ok |
| 02:08.24 | arossdotme | right see ya |
| 02:08.59 | P-G | Ok, sleep well. |
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| 14:55.18 | lkcl | arossdotme: heh yep sorry i switched off "keyboard focus" on xchat a while ago as i would end up typing source code into the xchat window :) |
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| 17:25.49 | arossdotme | lkcl: ok hehe |
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