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| 00:55.43 | wowon | hi .... anybody hack the X360 ? |
| 00:59.06 | libv | wowon: not afaik |
| 00:59.24 | libv | wowon: #linux-sunxi is where it is at for this allwinner A10 device |
| 01:00.14 | wowon | libv : it's a game console based on A10 ... with this I'm pretty sure that we can got some I/O pin |
| 01:00.29 | wowon | ooo ok ok .... |
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| 08:02.17 | sky770 | Huawei k3v2 |
| 08:02.37 | sky770 | this thingy has got a vivante gc4000 right? |
| 08:03.02 | sky770 | just pulled up from pdadb.net |
| 08:04.09 | sky770 | apparently HiSilicon shares different licenses for different vendors..now that HiSilicon is under Huawei..even freescale's gc4000 implementation sucks :D |
| 08:04.10 | sky770 | :3 |
| 08:04.32 | sky770 | k3v2 is present in huawei u9508 (AKA honor 2) |
| 08:05.24 | sky770 | acc. to a youtube vid by antutu team member..huawei cheated :p by using some kind of script for filtering out benchmarks to generate fake perf. data :D |
| 08:06.04 | sky770 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUHT52xkxFE |
| 08:06.41 | sky770 | said to be running a 16 core gc4000 this SoC sure is interesting..but well |
| 08:06.58 | sky770 | sitting behind Huawei's giant no_opne_policy_crap |
| 08:07.01 | sky770 | open* |
| 08:07.20 | sky770 | :( |
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| 09:41.03 | SPG | lkcl master ce3b0c8 rhombus allwinner/a31/hacking_the_mele_a1000g.mdwn * add contact details * http://git.hands.com/?p=rhombus.git;a=commitdiff;h=ce3b0c8 |
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| 10:42.44 | SPG | lkcl master 14e58e2 rhombus community_ideas/laptop/ layout_isometric.png layout_plan_view.png * thin laptop ideas * http://git.hands.com/?p=rhombus.git;a=commitdiff;h=14e58e2 |
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| 16:51.47 | penguin42 | it's kind of fun watching the mailing list switch from SoCs, through software, PCB design and now to hinges |
| 17:00.47 | L84Supper | and still no hardware :) |
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| 17:06.07 | penguin42 | but not I know where to buy a hinge for a boring normal laptop |
| 17:09.31 | L84Supper | ebay |
| 17:14.32 | L84Supper | people have complete tooling for laptop cases gathering dust that you can buy for the cost of scrap |
| 17:16.41 | L84Supper | or you can even SLA print entire custom cases in a few minutes for ~$1ea in polymer |
| 17:18.27 | mnemoc | o_O |
| 17:19.02 | penguin42 | L84Supper: Which for the scales for this project are possibly best |
| 17:19.20 | penguin42 | didn't realised you could get 3d printing done so cheaply/usefully - most 3d printing I've seen is frankly useless |
| 17:20.26 | L84Supper | yeah, you have to ignore reprap and the other 80's tech |
| 17:24.29 | L84Supper | but the world would be boring if there were't reprap printed RPi cases or attempts at making bamboo laminate enclosures |
| 17:24.56 | penguin42 | some of the laminate stuff is interesting - the laser cut laminate hinges are great |
| 17:26.10 | L84Supper | print glass forms for the bamboo to grow into, slice and sand |
| 17:27.08 | penguin42 | haha |
| 17:27.28 | L84Supper | even better 4 different glass forms with the snap-fit molded in, grow the bamboo into them, harvest when ripe and assemble |
| 17:29.14 | L84Supper | you could 3D print a paste with bamboo pulp or use bamboo dust and print a binder |
| 17:29.26 | lkcl | L84Supper: that's not true!! and remember, it took a hell of a long time to find the specialist parts and suppliers. the A10 board's done, we've got another 7 samples on the way. the flying squirrel's on its 2nd revision PCB, casework in progress. |
| 17:29.45 | lkcl | there's a *lot* going on - so much that i don't have time (with a full-time job) to tell everyone what's going on |
| 17:29.54 | penguin42 | L84Supper: I bet you eat square oranges don't you? |
| 17:30.35 | L84Supper | just ignore me, lkcl |
| 17:30.55 | mnemoc | lkcl: what about the laptop part? |
| 17:31.26 | penguin42 | lkcl: You have to admit that there isn't much hardware |
| 17:31.32 | L84Supper | combining a bamboo laminate with bamboo dust+binder would be really strong |
| 17:31.38 | penguin42 | even if it's a lot closer |
| 17:32.00 | L84Supper | not very heat conductive though |
| 17:32.57 | L84Supper | PVA for a binder mixed with graphite would be heat conductive, but the color might not be what you want |
| 17:33.35 | penguin42 | and water soluble? |
| 17:34.06 | L84Supper | yeah, unless you seal it |
| 17:36.17 | L84Supper | but it would be easily recyclable if it's water soluble |
| 17:38.26 | L84Supper | maybe coat with a nut derived epoxy and nutshell powder slurry, then it would break down over time in UV and only rot internally after getting soaked |
| 17:39.07 | penguin42 | youre ideas for 3d printed stuff is very odd! |
| 17:39.44 | penguin42 | at this rate you'll be making an edible laptop |
| 17:39.45 | L84Supper | or just buy somebodies old tooling for a few $K and make some inserts for the card |
| 17:39.54 | L84Supper | possible |
| 17:40.04 | L84Supper | sugars and starch |
| 17:40.13 | mnemoc | tasty |
| 17:40.48 | L84Supper | candy molds are cheap |
| 17:41.13 | L84Supper | could be 99% edible if you coat it |
| 17:41.33 | penguin42 | but would it be able to hold any open sauce? |
| 17:42.53 | L84Supper | like a sauce tray in a Happy Meal? |
| 17:45.25 | L84Supper | I guess it would be possible to 3d print a scaffold that would serve as the enclosure that skin cells would attache themselves to... |
| 17:45.52 | L84Supper | grow a thick enough layer and let it dry |
| 17:46.25 | L84Supper | or maybe nail cells, then it would be a hard shell |
| 17:46.34 | penguin42 | yeuch |
| 17:46.41 | L84Supper | it's just not very fast |
| 17:47.29 | penguin42 | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:48.23 | L84Supper | it could live off whats left on the keyboard after a bag of Cheetos or even food was consumed |
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| 17:53.36 | L84Supper | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sy3Oy5mmMiA a faster version of this (but it gets the idea across) |
| 17:58.01 | penguin42 | way too slow, I can eat them faster than it can print them |
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| 18:45.10 | lkcl | penguin42: if we wanted "just hardware" we would have just got any old laptop, any old tablet, any old desktop product designed by any old china knock-off factory. |
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| 18:45.44 | lkcl | you saw how easy it was for neal to create the pengpod tablet? all he had to do was buy any one of *literally* thousands of china knock-off tablets. |
| 18:45.54 | lkcl | how hard is that? |
| 18:46.56 | lkcl | this is completely different. it takes weeks to get it through chinese factories thick heads that we DO NOT WANT THEIR CRAP KNOCK-OFF PRODUCTS. |
| 18:47.35 | lkcl | one day, if i get permission, i'll publish the conversations from one of the factories. |
| 18:47.53 | lkcl | "we have a tablet, how many you want buy?" |
| 18:48.08 | lkcl | actually we'd like a redesign, according to our specification |
| 18:48.17 | lkcl | "i understand. how many of our tablet you want buy?" |
| 18:48.32 | lkcl | errr no... we give *you* the design, you make it for us. |
| 18:48.47 | lkcl | "ok, we give you our design. how many you want buy?" |
| 18:49.06 | lkcl | err... no, that's *our* design, here's the specification. |
| 18:49.20 | lkcl | "ok. our engineers will study it." |
| 18:49.33 | lkcl | thank you. |
| 18:49.43 | lkcl | "our engineers say there is no processor, it cannot work" |
| 18:49.52 | lkcl | that's because the processor is on a CPU Card. |
| 18:50.08 | lkcl | "ah. we look at that too. our engineer can redesign! the A10 is great!" |
| 18:50.18 | lkcl | yes, but we want it done *our* way, not yours |
| 18:50.37 | lkcl | "our engineer say your way is old-school. we can do it better! cheaper!" |
| 18:50.54 | Undertasker | Same thing happens with engineers from India. |
| 18:51.13 | lkcl | Undertasker: amazing, isn't it. and each time there's a 48 hour delay |
| 18:51.27 | lkcl | i haven't even got to the arguments about how they can do the software better, yet!! |
| 18:51.34 | Undertasker | You tell them 10 times exactly what you want, they always say ok, but don't understand a word |
| 18:51.48 | penguin42 | the guys from India and China aren't all fools - it sounds like you're talking to guys who want to either save money or get you to pay up for design services |
| 18:51.49 | lkcl | Undertasker: it's incredible training in patience |
| 18:52.26 | lkcl | penguin42: true. franson's smart. the problem there was finding a client willing to pay his up-front fees. |
| 18:52.48 | lkcl | mostly this is about getting at least the engineering costs paid-for. |
| 18:52.54 | Undertasker | I didn't say they are fools, but it seems that they are too afraid to ask questions, or admit that they don't understand what you want |
| 18:53.22 | penguin42 | lkcl: I don't really understand the need to redesign the mechanicals though if you start with a base that has a PCMCIA slot |
| 18:53.26 | Undertasker | They rather say, ok, I'll do so, and then come back with a solution that has nothing to do with what you told them |
| 18:53.32 | lkcl | the issue here is that we have to tackle - and redesign - *every* product |
| 18:54.33 | penguin42 | lkcl: I guess the challenge is finding a modern looking chassis that has a PCMCIA slot |
| 18:54.37 | lkcl | penguin42: every laptop that has a PCMCIA slot is designed for standard x86 laptops. they're at least 15 to 20mm thick in the base part, in order to accommodate keyboard, PCB, fan, heatsink and processor |
| 18:55.00 | lkcl | penguin42: yeah exactly - there aren't any. anything with a PCMCIA slot is at least 8 years old. |
| 18:56.01 | Undertasker | Older. After PCMCIA came PCCARD |
| 18:56.12 | Undertasker | Same connector, though |
| 18:56.29 | lkcl | Undertasker: PCMCIA is PCCARD. People Can't Pronounce Computer Industry Acronyms |
| 18:56.33 | penguin42 | haha |
| 18:57.07 | Undertasker | No. PCMCIA was 16 bit, PCCARD 32 bit. Also you can't put a PCCARD in a PCMCIA slot |
| 18:57.10 | lkcl | so they changed the name. made it 32-bit |
| 18:57.19 | lkcl | oh ok ok :) |
| 18:57.38 | Undertasker | They don't fit, because the changed the plastic edges a bit |
| 18:57.50 | mnemoc | ow |
| 18:58.28 | lkcl | Undertasker: yes. |
| 18:58.43 | lkcl | Type I and Type II |
| 18:59.31 | lkcl | now. i was going to look something up... |
| 18:59.50 | Undertasker | I still have network cards of both types here. Don't know wy I keep them |
| 18:59.54 | lkcl | :) |
| 19:00.14 | lkcl | i have two sitting on my desk. actually my mum still has a laptop that needs PCMCIA wifi. |
| 19:00.58 | Undertasker | When the PCMCIA ethernet card was manufactured, there wasn't even wifi |
| 19:01.11 | lkcl | ethernet card dongles.... grrrr :) |
| 19:01.47 | Undertasker | I still have a parallel port 10Mbit Ethernet adapter somewhere |
| 19:02.06 | Undertasker | Takes power form the PS/2 port |
| 19:02.34 | lkcl | aw my gawd. you thinking of opening up a museum, or what?? |
| 19:03.11 | penguin42 | throws a AUI block at Undertasker |
| 19:03.19 | lkcl | s/Pronounce/Memorise |
| 19:03.44 | Undertasker | Well, for the low end/low cost side of the hardware we now have Raspi and Android sticks. So it may be time to get rid of the old junk |
| 19:04.18 | Undertasker | I'm just too lazy, and my barn is big. :-) |
| 19:04.31 | lkcl | Undertasker: burn it, yeah!! |
| 19:04.45 | penguin42 | Undertasker: Want a couple of Sun3's to keep it warm? |
| 19:04.47 | lkcl | solve several issues at once. save on heating bills, get rid of the junk.... |
| 19:06.18 | Undertasker | When it's cold, I switch on the DEC PDP-1 |
| 19:06.37 | lkcl | Undertasker: awesome!!! |
| 19:06.42 | Undertasker | (Just kidding, but I know someone that still has one) |
| 19:07.00 | Undertasker | As a decoration in his shop |
| 19:07.13 | lkcl | wow. |
| 19:07.19 | lkcl | if it's still working... |
| 19:07.55 | Undertasker | Don't know. It hasn't been powered up since 30 years or so |
| 19:08.20 | penguin42 | got rid of his ICL Perq a few years back to a museum |
| 19:09.58 | Undertasker | I must have a Sinclair ZX81 somewhere. |
| 19:10.12 | Undertasker | But not in the original housing |
| 19:10.24 | lkcl | Undertasker: bloody hell, those are valuable. awww, darn. no case? |
| 19:10.37 | Undertasker | Had put it in a bigger one and added a real keyboard |
| 19:11.10 | lkcl | :) |
| 19:11.24 | Undertasker | The damn thing wasn't usable with the original "keyboard" |
| 19:12.02 | Undertasker | Well, to be honest, the whole thing wasn't really usable |
| 19:12.39 | Undertasker | The smal processor did the video signal generation by software, so there was nearly no computing power left |
| 19:13.13 | Undertasker | It had a turbo mode where it switched off the video, though |
| 19:13.58 | lkcl | Undertasker: i was "lucky" enough to have access to a ZX80 (with a ZX81 ROM upgrade). |
| 19:14.15 | Undertasker | But it was the first home computer below $1000 |
| 19:14.31 | lkcl | that _was_ awesome. press a key and the screen (TV) would go "snow" |
| 19:14.32 | lkcl | bzzt |
| 19:14.37 | penguin42 | thinks he had a zx80 somewhere |
| 19:14.44 | lkcl | BZZT. bzzzt.... |
| 19:25.58 | Fragmint | I just pulled this out of a closet: http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/7322/cam00117.jpg |
| 19:29.51 | penguin42 | nice! |
| 19:31.41 | rm | is this a game of "guess what it is"? :) |
| 19:32.56 | Fragmint | http://oldcomputers.net/pics/sharp-pc7000.jpg |
| 19:33.24 | penguin42 | Fragmint: Ah, a portable |
| 19:33.41 | penguin42 | Fragmint: You get strong arms with one of those :-) |
| 19:33.53 | Fragmint | portable trminal |
| 19:34.06 | rm | you mean StrongARMs? :) |
| 19:34.23 | rm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StrongARM |
| 19:34.31 | penguin42 | well I was trying to make that joke :-) |
| 19:35.06 | Undertasker | I must have some Mini PC's somewhere. 8086 and 80286 |
| 19:35.41 | Fragmint | 286 blows it away. =( |
| 19:36.05 | mnemoc | had 8088 and 8086... but not precissly "mini" |
| 19:36.07 | Undertasker | Was thinking about placing a Raspi and a 2.5" disk in one of the housings. The power supply is still good |
| 19:36.43 | Fragmint | screen stll works up andi tt boots bu the floppy drive won't read disks. =( |
| 19:37.03 | Fragmint | smashes his keyboard |
| 19:37.11 | penguin42 | hands Fragmint one of his spare 5.25" drives |
| 19:37.23 | Fragmint | =O |
| 19:37.32 | Undertasker | And maybe the upper lid is big enough to hold a 10" tft module. This would make it nearly a raspi notebook |
| 19:37.32 | Fragmint | hands penguin42 a waffle |
| 19:37.51 | penguin42 | oooh |
| 19:38.34 | penguin42 | Fragmint: What's that thing to the right just below the black bit? |
| 19:38.45 | Fragmint | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:39.17 | Fragmint | lets you tilt the screen in/outtt |
| 19:40.20 | penguin42 | oh weird! |
| 19:41.09 | penguin42 | it's kind of silly what you could get in a chassis that size these days |
| 19:43.21 | Undertasker | 100 Arm cores, or so |
| 19:48.01 | penguin42 | bets you can beat that a long way in that size |
| 19:51.43 | Undertasker | Cores are small nowadays. I talked to a microcontroller manufacturer. They are just shrinking to 22nm, and they told me that in fact the number of cores doesn't add much to the cost. RAM and Flash do. |
| 19:52.33 | Undertasker | They sell micros with 6 cores, but could easily add more, should we need them. |
| 19:53.20 | penguin42 | yeh the area of an ARM core is tiny |
| 19:57.38 | Undertasker | 32000 gates for an M3 |
| 19:59.54 | penguin42 | yeh it'll be a heck of a lot more for an A series I guess, especially when you put the cache on; 4KB of cache would be what 4x8x6+a bit - 200k transistors without the core |
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