| 00:00.40 | RITRedbeard | There was only one. |
| 00:00.41 | RITRedbeard | I stole it. |
| 00:01.20 | hno | Apparently quite many. Only some carriers lock them. |
| 00:01.40 | L84Supper | http://www.samsung.com/global/galaxys3/ this one? |
| 00:01.57 | specing | Locking is forbidden by law here |
| 00:02.14 | L84Supper | as usual the specs don't even mention the ARM soc part number |
| 00:03.42 | L84Supper | http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/mobile/display/20120607121519_Samsung_Drops_Quad_Core_System_on_Chip_from_U_S_Version_of_Galaxy_S_III.html |
| 00:05.04 | L84Supper | " in the U.S., Samsung had to throw away its own Exynos 4412 (quad-core ARM Cortex-A9 and ARM Mali 400MP graphics engine) application processor and install Qualcomm Snapdragon S4 system-on-chip. Apparently, it was impossible to install a specific 4G/LTE baseband chip into the Galaxy S III for the U.S." |
| 00:13.10 | hno | L84Supper, so get an european one. |
| 00:14.28 | hno | But ugh.. why do they call that Galaxy III. |
| 00:15.35 | hno | s/III/S III/ |
| 00:30.44 | hno | Night |
| 00:32.24 | L84Supper | g'nite |
| 01:14.25 | ManoftheSea | Please give me more than 768 vertical pixels. |
| 01:14.40 | ManoftheSea | My 1366 x 768 constantly has apps that fall off the bottom. |
| 01:16.33 | lundman | nothing less than 1080p is acceptable! :) |
| 01:28.07 | ManoftheSea | high five. |
| 01:44.07 | L84Supper | I recall battling with 800 x 600 arm11 tablets a few years ago |
| 01:45.22 | L84Supper | not fun |
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| 07:20.58 | sspiff | According to http://linux-sunxi.org/Starting_a_CyanogenMod_device_tree#Install, I should flash the constructed zip file from recovery, but I don't really have a recovery on the MK802 to my knowledge |
| 07:21.39 | sspiff | do we have any kind of image I can flash with livesuit to get something like CWM recovery? |
| 07:39.33 | RaYmAn | the real problem is, how are you going to boot recovery even if you get one flashed? :P |
| 07:48.25 | rm | recovery probably means FEL |
| 07:48.25 | phh | RaYmAn: always boot to it ? :p |
| 07:49.10 | RaYmAn | rm: on tablets, you usually can boot to an android recovery though =P |
| 07:49.13 | rm | you can enter that mode by holding down the reset button |
| 07:49.22 | rm | while turning on the MK802 |
| 07:49.43 | rm | ah, true |
| 07:49.51 | rm | but I don't even know |
| 07:49.54 | RaYmAn | you can't really very easily flash a CM build using fel =P |
| 07:50.01 | RaYmAn | phh: I suppose :P |
| 07:50.03 | rm | this whole Android thing upsets me greatly |
| 07:50.18 | RaYmAn | you can probably boot android recovery by writing 'boot-recovery' to misc partition |
| 07:50.19 | rm | I'd rather not have to do anything with it |
| 07:55.26 | orly_owl | lol |
| 07:55.32 | orly_owl | why do you dislike android so much |
| 08:01.15 | rm | it's a limited, dumbed down, half-proprietarized system |
| 08:01.48 | DonkeyHotei | http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/sys/3167015315.html |
| 08:02.02 | DonkeyHotei | oops, wrong window |
| 08:05.42 | rm | still nice :) |
| 08:05.54 | rm | and cheap |
| 08:25.34 | sspiff | rm: there there |
| 08:26.20 | sspiff | DonkeyHotei: nice price and nice display |
| 08:26.36 | sspiff | pretty old and outdated internals, but depends on what you need it for |
| 08:26.46 | sspiff | must have cost a fortune when it was new |
| 08:27.18 | sspiff | rm: that button boots you into the LiveSuit mode thing, doesn't it? |
| 08:27.41 | sspiff | you can't overwrite that with a custom recovery, if I'm not mistaken? |
| 08:28.03 | sspiff | anyway, the bootloader/recovery would need to have HDMI support, which I doubt it has :( |
| 08:28.18 | sspiff | it would be nice to have a uboot and uart over the mini usb |
| 08:29.00 | RaYmAn | you should relatively easily be able to 'convert' an android image to SD booting tbh |
| 08:29.16 | rm | sspiff, can't you flash what you need using LiveSuit? |
| 08:31.33 | sspiff | rm: How do you create a LiveSuit image from a CM / AOSP build? |
| 08:32.04 | sspiff | I'd be more than happy to just boot it from SD as well, it's just for testing, SD would be even better actually |
| 08:35.19 | CIA-122 | rhombus-tech: scar2 master * ra2d23c419291 /allwinner_a10/orders/.mdwn: |
| 08:37.43 | RaYmAn | sspiff: well, for one thing, you need a system.img instead of an update.zip |
| 08:38.39 | RaYmAn | I don't remember whether mmc uboot allows you to put in a ramdisk? |
| 08:54.34 | sspiff | RaYmAn: you can replace the uboot on MMC with another version I suppose? |
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| 11:57.22 | hno | RaYmAn, u-boot always allows for a initrd / initramfs. |
| 12:03.02 | hno | is mnemoc here today? |
| 12:03.40 | mnemoc | hno: yes |
| 12:06.25 | mnemoc | j1nx has a blog post about how to use an initramfs |
| 12:08.59 | hno | should we ask Dimitar to join on irc? |
| 12:09.04 | hno | mnemoc,? |
| 12:10.06 | mnemoc | hno: sounds like a good idea |
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| 12:20.45 | hno | done |
| 12:31.54 | mnemoc | http://olimex.wordpress.com/2012/07/31/a13-olinuxino-first-prototypes-are-ready-for-testing/ |
| 12:31.58 | mnemoc | looks NICE |
| 12:33.16 | phh | nice if you want an a13 i guess. |
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| 12:34.35 | mnemoc | i work controlling machines, i don't need sata or hdmi ;-) |
| 12:34.57 | mnemoc | ethernet hurts, but that can be added on a extension board |
| 12:35.02 | phh | why want an allwinner then ? |
| 12:35.04 | phh | good old beagleboard ? |
| 12:35.15 | mnemoc | beagleboard costs more |
| 12:35.27 | mnemoc | and doesn't have the PIOs |
| 12:35.32 | phh | PIO ? |
| 12:35.37 | mnemoc | GPIOs |
| 12:35.39 | phh | ??? |
| 12:35.53 | phh | only 80 ios. |
| 12:35.56 | phh | erf no beagleboard is 40 |
| 12:35.58 | phh | i meant beaglebone |
| 12:36.26 | mnemoc | yes, the bone is nice |
| 12:36.56 | phh | it's not even mentioning how much memory there is :/ |
| 12:37.19 | mnemoc | the bone has 256, the a13-olinuxino has 512 |
| 12:37.50 | mnemoc | and only one usb |
| 12:37.52 | phh | great for that price |
| 12:38.27 | mnemoc | while this A13 beaty has 3 + 1 OTG |
| 12:38.43 | mnemoc | beauty* |
| 12:38.59 | RaYmAn | What are you planning to use one for? lol |
| 12:39.08 | mnemoc | and VGA (with MALI) is useful for sexy hmi |
| 12:39.51 | mnemoc | RaYmAn: probably in a laundrymat :p |
| 12:40.29 | mnemoc | coins are so 50s... |
| 12:41.41 | mnemoc | but it's up to my boss anyway |
| 12:43.16 | RaYmAn | lol |
| 12:43.29 | RaYmAn | It's a pity A13 doesn't have HDMi |
| 12:43.40 | mnemoc | A12 does |
| 12:43.48 | mnemoc | but I haven't seen any... |
| 12:43.54 | mnemoc | only a defconfig |
| 12:47.18 | HeHoPMaJIeH | for olinuxino-A13 Olimex will produce LCDIF<->HDMI/VGA adapter |
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| 12:59.03 | CIA-122 | rhombus-tech: master * ra7e9c967bfdf /allwinner_a10/orders/FuegoR.mdwn: |
| 12:59.08 | Mazon | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:59.12 | Mazon | fuck me that looks nice |
| 12:59.26 | Mazon | or just A13-OLinuXino for EUR 45 :) |
| 12:59.31 | Mazon | color me impressed |
| 12:59.41 | Mazon | looking forward to the A10 with sata ;) |
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| 13:11.05 | Turl|| | mnemoc: ping |
| 13:12.27 | mnemoc | Turl||: |
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| 13:12.51 | Turl|| | mnemoc: how do you disassemble the mele? :D |
| 13:13.02 | mnemoc | Mazon: please try to convince him of making the A10 with 1GB |
| 13:13.08 | mnemoc | Turl||: removing the screws |
| 13:13.23 | Turl|| | all of 'em? it has a crapton |
| 13:13.35 | mnemoc | 4 in the A1k and 6 in the A2k |
| 13:13.48 | mnemoc | don't unscrew the connectors ;-) |
| 13:13.52 | mnemoc | only the chassis |
| 13:14.08 | Turl|| | aaand the cover is out :D |
| 13:14.15 | Turl|| | do you have a pic of the uart? |
| 13:14.59 | mnemoc | having the led pointing to you, and the connectors in the other direction, the UART is between the dram and you |
| 13:15.28 | Turl|| | its the horizontal weird pins? |
| 13:15.34 | mnemoc | Gnd, Tx, Rx, Vcc (connect the first 3) |
| 13:15.35 | mnemoc | yes |
| 13:15.46 | mnemoc | horizontal in the A2k, vertical in the A1k |
| 13:16.06 | Turl|| | it's a "v1.3" if it matters |
| 13:16.07 | mnemoc | if you don't get output, swap Tx and Rx |
| 13:16.25 | mnemoc | Turl||: all A2k are v1.3 I think :p |
| 13:17.21 | Turl|| | mnemoc: it has 2x256M mem chips |
| 13:17.22 | Turl|| | weird config |
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| 13:18.10 | mnemoc | Turl||: better content at http://linux-sunxi.org/Mele_A1000 is welcomed |
| 13:22.41 | Turl|| | added some incomplete specs |
| 13:23.43 | mnemoc | thanks |
| 13:24.06 | Turl|| | fuu connectors |
| 13:24.21 | Turl|| | it's f***ing hard to connect this cable |
| 13:24.46 | mnemoc | Turl||: be sure to use 2mm-pitch jumpers |
| 13:24.55 | Turl|| | ehh |
| 13:24.58 | Turl|| | facepalms |
| 13:25.02 | Turl|| | no wonder it didn't fit |
| 13:25.04 | mnemoc | "normals" are 0.1" (so 2.54mm) |
| 13:27.01 | hno | mnemoc, theré is rumors about a v1.7 a2k |
| 13:27.36 | mnemoc | hno: updated firmware or differences in the board? |
| 13:27.42 | hno | no idea |
| 13:28.18 | Turl|| | so, uart all set up |
| 13:28.24 | Turl|| | what do you use on the PC side? |
| 13:28.37 | mnemoc | a ttl to usb dongle |
| 13:28.44 | Turl|| | ... |
| 13:28.52 | Turl|| | I meant software wise |
| 13:28.58 | Turl|| | I have all the hw set up :) |
| 13:29.12 | mnemoc | hno likes screen, I prefer busybox's microcom |
| 13:29.30 | mnemoc | or gtkterm for the clicky people |
| 13:30.30 | hno | microcom exists standalone as well. But screen can be found on any linux |
| 13:31.16 | Turl|| | yep I have screen already |
| 13:31.40 | Turl|| | hno: how can I power this from usb? the uart and the wall block have all too small cables :( |
| 13:34.13 | Turl|| | nvm, got the block arranged to be connected |
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| 13:34.24 | hno | Turl||, like this? http://www.hno.se/code/A10/uart-module.jpg |
| 13:35.05 | Turl|| | yeah that pic :) thx |
| 13:35.35 | Turl|| | hno: what screen params do you use? |
| 13:38.57 | hno | I just connected 5V out from my UART module to the center pin of the power jack. |
| 13:39.10 | hno | screen /dev/ttyUSB0 115200 |
| 13:40.53 | hno | 5v directly from th usb cale also works |
| 13:41.14 | Turl|| | woot got kernel output :D |
| 13:43.29 | Turl|| | and input :) |
| 13:45.47 | Turl|| | the ir remote doesn't seem to work |
| 13:46.06 | Turl|| | meh no batteries |
| 13:46.22 | hno | batteries helps |
| 13:47.12 | Turl|| | yeah, don't have two spare AAA's though |
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| 13:47.45 | Turl|| | steals batteries from tv remote |
| 13:48.56 | rm | 'screen' can do that? O.o |
| 13:49.00 | rm | I used minicom |
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| 13:49.39 | Turl|| | needs a crash course to change language to english |
| 13:50.49 | hno | Did it by trial & error. |
| 13:51.26 | Turl|| | found entwork options & others but no lang |
| 13:52.58 | hno | hi HeHoPMaJIeH |
| 13:58.52 | Turl|| | where's the mele ics upgrde page? the rt one seems to have been moved/deleted |
| 13:59.35 | mnemoc | lundman has a mirror of the images |
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| 14:04.08 | mnemoc | hno: `./pio print < PIO` on master |
| 14:04.52 | *** join/#arm-netbook NZBBoSS (~nzbsrus@02d818ed.bb.sky.com) |
| 14:05.16 | mnemoc | hno: not sure if adding a command to set particular parts (mul/data) or something that applies edited human-friendly entries |
| 14:05.28 | NZBBoSS | hi guys, anyone here have the mele A2000 and have the debug board? - do you know where i can get the drivers for this (running dindows 7 - 64bit) |
| 14:05.41 | NZBBoSS | windows* |
| 14:05.56 | mnemoc | NZBBoSS: depends on the chip on your ttl/usb adapter |
| 14:06.17 | mnemoc | NZBBoSS: in the civilized world you don't need drivers. no idea about windows |
| 14:06.30 | NZBBoSS | bought it from tom cubie |
| 14:06.52 | mnemoc | NZBBoSS: depends on the chip on your ttl/usb adapter |
| 14:07.11 | Turl|| | Prolific Technology, Inc. PL2303 Serial Port <- that's what tom sent me |
| 14:08.00 | mnemoc | and it's not supported by that crap OS by default? |
| 14:08.38 | mnemoc | PL2303 is probably the most common uart/usb in the world |
| 14:08.56 | Turl|| | the prolific *parallel* thingy I bought the other day worked on windows after it found drivers on the windows update thing |
| 14:08.56 | NZBBoSS | nah shameful really! |
| 14:13.26 | NZBBoSS | Turl||, cheers mate worked a treet! |
| 14:15.19 | NZBBoSS | is there a way to connect to the mele with ADB ? using the debgi board~? |
| 14:15.33 | sspiff | programmed I/O |
| 14:15.47 | sspiff | sorry wrong window |
| 14:18.01 | mnemoc | NZBBoSS: inside the mele a1k/a2k there is a 5pin header behind the rj45 connector, that's the OTG |
| 14:19.03 | mnemoc | the 3 left-most pins go to black, green and white wires of a usb adapter |
| 14:21.02 | Turl|| | mnemoc: got the cable going out of the mele box using that circly thing on the back |
| 14:22.10 | NZBBoSS | ok cool, ill pull apart a usb cable ;) |
| 14:24.01 | NZBBoSS | or can the debug board be used by chnaging the pins around? |
| 14:25.07 | mnemoc | there is nothing in common between the usb otg header and the uart header |
| 14:34.16 | NZBBoSS | mnemoc, left pins.... if looking from the front... or the back of the unit? |
| 14:34.47 | mnemoc | NZBBoSS: left having the header between you and the connectors |
| 14:42.37 | Turl|| | needs a full SD card >: |
| 14:42.49 | Turl|| | mnemoc: is 8G enough? |
| 14:46.31 | NZBBoSS | sweet! usb works ;) |
| 14:46.35 | NZBBoSS | cheers fella! |
| 15:05.08 | mnemoc | NZBBoSS: :) |
| 15:11.07 | mnemoc | Turl||: sure, plenty |
| 15:18.16 | Turl|| | mnemoc: my 1T usb HDD works okay on the mele to play videos |
| 15:18.28 | mnemoc | Wh? |
| 15:18.35 | Turl|| | it didn't seem to like the audio track on a mkv though :( |
| 15:19.13 | mnemoc | make an image with better codecs ;-) |
| 15:20.04 | Turl|| | I'll try with ics |
| 15:20.10 | Turl|| | once I get an sd card :P |
| 16:09.08 | hno | mnemoc, will look at the tool later tonight. |
| 16:10.39 | mnemoc | hno: also added the helper to set the values in the buffer regardless where that info comes from |
| 16:10.56 | mnemoc | obviusly, still unused |
| 16:27.51 | Turl|| | mnemoc: what does this pio tool do? |
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| 16:30.22 | mnemoc | Turl||: currently? pretty-prints a dump of the PIO registry |
| 16:31.44 | Turl|| | mnemoc: and what's the PIO registry? :) |
| 16:32.15 | mnemoc | the part of the SoC where the state of the pins live |
| 16:33.46 | Turl|| | mnemoc: this PIO? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmed_input/output |
| 16:33.52 | mnemoc | yes |
| 16:34.15 | mnemoc | Turl||: to test sunxi-based board before they have a running OS we can fetch (using `fel`) the PIO registry, modify it and push it back |
| 16:34.40 | mnemoc | the with a led or tester see if certain test pad has the wanted value |
| 16:34.59 | mnemoc | s/the/then/ |
| 16:35.13 | Turl|| | :) |
| 16:35.51 | mnemoc | eventually `pio` will be able to do more GPIO related things and validate against a SoC specs.... but not there yet |
| 16:35.56 | Turl|| | needs to buy an usb extension cord |
| 16:37.36 | mnemoc | and the sunxi kernel will support gpiolib with easy /sys access from userspace |
| 16:37.50 | mnemoc | and there will be world peace and no one will die of hunger |
| 16:37.56 | RaYmAn | :D |
| 16:38.03 | Turl|| | :) |
| 16:38.18 | Turl|| | mnemoc: btw how do you power off the mele, othr than pulling the plug? |
| 16:38.24 | RaYmAn | having sysfs access to gpios will be especially nice on those a10/a13 devboards with exposed pins :D |
| 16:38.58 | Turl|| | nvm got it done with the physical button :D |
| 16:39.01 | mnemoc | yup, that's the idea |
| 16:40.06 | hno | mnemoc, good news in mail tonight. |
| 16:40.20 | traeak | mail or mali? |
| 16:41.04 | hno | our mail. |
| 16:41.11 | mnemoc | hno: you mean http://olimex.wordpress.com/2012/07/31/a13-olinuxino-first-time-android-boot/ ? :) |
| 16:41.54 | mnemoc | WANTS one |
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| 16:49.47 | hno | yes |
| 16:52.46 | mnemoc | hno: I suppose running android alone is a pretty good stress test for the dram |
| 16:54.45 | hno | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:55.17 | hno | android fully booting is very good test. |
| 16:55.43 | hno | hope they all work. |
| 16:57.18 | rz2k | I've flashed my ly-f1 with livesuit when I had bad dram connection, just not from the first time :3 |
| 16:59.22 | hno | rz2k, how bad? |
| 17:02.00 | hno | livesuit do rely quite heavily on working DRAM, at least the first MB. |
| 17:02.06 | hno | some MB. |
| 17:02.46 | mnemoc | Turl||: http://www.focalprice.com/CA0190X/15_m_USB_Extension_Cable.html |
| 17:02.50 | mnemoc | Turl||: love that one |
| 17:03.41 | mnemoc | Turl||: meh, got removed from catalog :< |
| 17:05.44 | mnemoc | Turl||: http://www.topqt.com/15-m-usb-extension-cable (same sku but bought from focalprice) |
| 17:05.50 | rz2k | hno: I've just didnt touch tablet at all to ensure that there is no stress on bga balls where my problem was |
| 17:05.54 | hno | mnemoc, I assume that one have some active repeater electronics? |
| 17:06.09 | rz2k | from 3-5 tries I've flashed it successfully |
| 17:06.57 | rz2k | main problem with livesuit that if it fails and tablet goes stuck in FEL mode you need to short nand's data bus. |
| 17:07.20 | mnemoc | hno: not 100% sure |
| 17:07.36 | hno | rz2k, why? |
| 17:07.50 | hno | doesn't full format help? |
| 17:08.57 | rz2k | nope, when dram error occures eFex locks up and when you start tablet next time it goes stright to the efex, which is usually called by livesuit. this situation causes livesuit to lockup itself |
| 17:09.30 | rz2k | if you short out data bus eFex doesnt start and livesuit starts it like it usually do |
| 17:10.38 | rz2k | (of course you need to remove short when you see "mandatory format" message, after you press yes livesuit starts flashing) |
| 17:11.41 | rz2k | this workaround is from F20 ages and used by ebook reader guys |
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| 17:14.24 | mnemoc | rz2k: do you have an F20 device? |
| 17:15.07 | rz2k | nope, I've googled it up when I was stuck with livesuit locking up after I connect my "bricked" ly-f1 |
| 17:15.45 | rz2k | by bricked I mean previous flashing wasnt completed successfully |
| 17:33.57 | traeak | heh, don't use term "brick" |
| 17:34.04 | traeak | terminology is pretty important |
| 17:35.22 | traeak | i bricked a wrt54g before. unbricking involved scraping the PCB and shorting 2 traces |
| 17:35.59 | traeak | swapping an sd card incomparison... |
| 17:36.47 | mnemoc | all hail the unbrickable A10 devices :p |
| 17:37.27 | RaYmAn | traeak: soft brick ;) |
| 17:53.31 | traeak | RaYmAn: sucks to have to destabilize a chip to force it into a mode where it can be "unbricked", at least someone else did all the research so i just had to follow a stupid guide |
| 17:55.49 | RaYmAn | definitely |
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| 18:11.03 | hno | traeak, how is that different from rz2k brick mode? (except that his was really a brick) |
| 18:11.38 | Turl|| | mnemoc: ended up ordering a 2m usb cable locally for about the same money :) |
| 18:17.40 | mnemoc | shielded? :) |
| 18:19.22 | mnemoc | i suppose the difference between a soft and a hard brick would be that the later requires soldering |
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| 18:21.19 | Turl|| | a 'brick' is unfixable |
| 18:21.50 | Turl|| | how do you know if ics finished flashing? |
| 18:22.08 | mnemoc | phoenixcard? the led will stop blicking |
| 18:24.08 | Turl|| | I dd'd the lundman image |
| 18:24.13 | Turl|| | did some stuff looking @ uart |
| 18:25.04 | mnemoc | yes, that's an image of phoenixcard's resulting card |
| 18:25.19 | Turl|| | haha the ics bootanimation is cooler |
| 18:30.41 | Turl|| | heh it has an assistant to install the bloatware and lets you opt out |
| 18:30.58 | hno | Turl||, a brick is unfixable without extraordinary actions normally not done in field. |
| 18:32.09 | hno | and rz2k was really a brick, needing both a reflow of the CPU and shorting of the NAND data bus. |
| 18:39.14 | Turl|| | ok, sdcard unphoenix'd |
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| 18:48.56 | Tsvetan | hi' |
| 18:49.00 | hno | hi hi |
| 18:49.14 | hno | congratulations to the successful test |
| 18:49.34 | Tsvetan | :) drinked beers with dimitar and our developers |
| 18:50.04 | Tsvetan | hno: thanks! here were too many white spots with this design and now I can take breath that everthing is OK |
| 18:50.39 | Tsvetan | tomorrow we will try to config the vga |
| 18:50.56 | hno | some tweaking remaining for vga. |
| 18:51.24 | Tsvetan | the keyboard and mouse are supported under android image and work too |
| 18:51.47 | *** join/#arm-netbook nibb (~jyuyu@28.201.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 18:52.12 | Tsvetan | yes the VGA monitor can't sync at 800x480 :) |
| 18:52.32 | Tsvetan | we have to run it in 1024x768 or 640x480 |
| 18:53.09 | hno | Keyboard & mouse should work assuming you used USB. There is also PS/2 controllers, but not sure anyone wants to use them today. |
| 18:53.27 | Tsvetan | wifi also is recognized |
| 18:53.38 | hno | Hm. maybe the PS/2 is not in A13, don't remember. |
| 18:53.45 | hno | good. |
| 18:53.50 | Tsvetan | a13 have no ps2 |
| 18:54.20 | hno | no one will miss them. |
| 18:54.29 | Tsvetan | we will polish and prepare the hardware for production run before we leave for our summer vacation |
| 18:54.47 | Tsvetan | and when we get back will continue with A10-OLinuXino development |
| 18:54.49 | Tsvetan | :) |
| 18:55.26 | hno | Better hurry. There is a bit of competition on that one. |
| 18:55.46 | Tsvetan | that's ok |
| 18:56.14 | Tsvetan | even now there are olanty of a10 boards aound isn't it :) |
| 18:56.20 | Tsvetan | plenty |
| 18:56.35 | Tsvetan | aaah I'm drunk |
| 18:56.42 | Tsvetan | i can't type |
| 18:57.29 | rm | hno, I use an USB-to-PS/2 dongle with my Mele A2000 |
| 18:57.53 | hno | Tsvetan, there is plenty of special purpose A10 boards yes. But only one competing with the A10-OLinuXino |
| 18:58.06 | rm | because I have a good AT keyboard (on an AT to PS/2 converter), it's from the past millenium |
| 18:58.08 | Tsvetan | hno ? |
| 18:59.32 | hno | HDMI, USB x 3, wifi, 1GB RAM, all the rest on expansion headers. |
| 18:59.41 | hno | Forgot LAN and SATA. |
| 18:59.49 | hno | also there. |
| 19:00.03 | hno | and microsd * 2 / *1 + NAND. |
| 19:00.13 | Tsvetan | open source? |
| 19:00.59 | hno | I don't think so. |
| 19:02.30 | Tsvetan | do you have link? |
| 19:02.54 | hno | http://cubieboard.org/ is very brief, but the board exists as prototype already. |
| 19:03.35 | hno | I think you recognise who to ask for more information. |
| 19:04.18 | rz2k | yes, ask hipboi for more info, pics already available. |
| 19:04.20 | Tsvetan | chrome says this web site hve malicious software and refuse to open it :))) |
| 19:05.06 | rz2k | interesting, it doesnt say that to me. |
| 19:05.32 | rz2k | probably another crappy js-trojan for default wordpress envorinoment. |
| 19:05.43 | hno | firefox is also happy. |
| 19:06.30 | Tsvetan | I opened it on my own risk :))) |
| 19:06.35 | mnemoc | no warning in my chrome |
| 19:06.49 | Tsvetan | the board looks cool |
| 19:07.18 | Tsvetan | competition is good |
| 19:07.55 | rz2k | Tsvetan: is there any ETA on when olinuxino-a13 goes mass production? |
| 19:08.18 | Tsvetan | we will have them instock in September |
| 19:08.41 | Tsvetan | now when we know there are no major hardare issues we can move fast to production |
| 19:09.06 | rz2k | I run small 5-10 boards per month shop for local community, thats why I'm asking. |
| 19:09.25 | mnemoc | Tsvetan: if you can build sunxi-gpio in that android system you can configure script.bin to export gpios in /sys to play from userspace |
| 19:09.27 | hno | How many errors was found in the datasheet & reference design? |
| 19:10.08 | Tsvetan | for a13? we didn't follow the reference layout at all |
| 19:10.14 | Tsvetan | just the scematic |
| 19:10.14 | mnemoc | :) |
| 19:11.41 | hno | I rmember you mentioned some error in pinout for the NAND in the schematics. |
| 19:11.47 | Tsvetan | a10 datasheet is with errors at least this is what wits confrmed - do not use the datasheet just the schematic :)))) |
| 19:12.11 | Tsvetan | hno it was just different pin names conventon which wits used |
| 19:12.22 | hno | ok. |
| 19:12.47 | Tsvetan | anyway OUR schematic and board layout are OK and you can use as reference |
| 19:13.59 | Tsvetan | hno in the scripts you sent me |
| 19:14.12 | Tsvetan | the a10 ddr was with 360 mhz clock |
| 19:14.27 | Tsvetan | while a13 clock was at 800 mhz |
| 19:14.36 | Tsvetan | both seems wrong to me |
| 19:15.06 | mnemoc | tom's board says the ddr is at @400 |
| 19:15.21 | mnemoc | in that page |
| 19:15.31 | Tsvetan | a13 clock should be 533 according to the datasheet |
| 19:15.44 | Tsvetan | how it works at 800? |
| 19:16.06 | mnemoc | beer-powered |
| 19:16.15 | rz2k | :) |
| 19:16.36 | Tsvetan | I meand DDR3 clock |
| 19:16.42 | Tsvetan | mean |
| 19:22.38 | mnemoc | Tsvetan: do you have a higher res picture of the board for http://linux-sunxi.org/A13-OLinuXino ? |
| 19:23.17 | Tsvetan | tomorrow I will mail you one |
| 19:23.45 | hno | Tsvetan, yes it's odd. That's from the leaked A13 SDK files. |
| 19:24.03 | mnemoc | Tsvetan: thanks :) |
| 19:24.37 | Tsvetan | interesting why tom run his board ddr3 at 400mhz |
| 19:24.53 | hno | The A10 value is probably correct. |
| 19:25.05 | Tsvetan | he have lot of inside knowledge so this may be intentional |
| 19:25.30 | hno | Have seen several different DDR clock rates in A10 firmwares. |
| 19:25.31 | Tsvetan | although a10 data sheet says SDRAM controller fr DDR3 up to 800 mhz |
| 19:25.54 | hno | DDR3 800MHz is 400MHz clock rate. |
| 19:26.07 | mnemoc | maybe tom's board is simply to compact to go faster |
| 19:26.11 | Tsvetan | not really |
| 19:26.28 | Tsvetan | the DDR3 chips we use are up yo 1600Mhz DDR3 chips |
| 19:26.38 | Tsvetan | as per allwinner recommendation |
| 19:27.09 | Tsvetan | so they should work at 800mhz clock |
| 19:27.39 | Tsvetan | and a13 clock in the script is 800 mhz |
| 19:27.54 | hno | right. |
| 19:28.15 | Tsvetan | isn't it great to develop product without datasheet and user manual? :))) |
| 19:28.55 | mnemoc | real men need to manuals ;-) |
| 19:29.02 | mnemoc | s/ to / no / |
| 19:29.16 | Tsvetan | if I didn't already bought 1000 pcs a10 I would move forward directly with imx6 in september |
| 19:29.49 | hno | At least A10 is way more known. |
| 19:29.49 | Tsvetan | :)) now I have to mug tom's water to move on the chips which I have in stock |
| 19:30.21 | mnemoc | Tsvetan: i believe the industrial-friendliness of yours will be key |
| 19:31.01 | mnemoc | to differenciate I mean |
| 19:35.55 | Turl|| | hno: are there prebuilt uboot images for sdcard? |
| 19:36.27 | mnemoc | Tsvetan: http://dl.linux-sunxi.org/nightly/latest/ |
| 19:36.28 | mnemoc | err |
| 19:36.33 | Tsvetan | mnemoc indeed I see tom's board s only 5v |
| 19:36.35 | mnemoc | Turl||: http://dl.linux-sunxi.org/nightly/latest/ |
| 19:37.35 | Turl|| | what's this 'hwpack' stuff? :) |
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| 19:38.52 | hno | Turl||, yes, for A10. |
| 19:39.43 | mnemoc | Turl||: hardware packs are for integrating with linaro stuff |
| 19:40.08 | Turl|| | are there any instructions for installing these images mnemoc ? |
| 19:40.28 | mnemoc | http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/nightly_build_images/ |
| 19:40.31 | thefrog | mnemoc: can I follow these instructions http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/a10_image/ with that image? |
| 19:41.31 | thefrog | nevermind.. your link better |
| 19:42.18 | mnemoc | thefrog: adding content to linux-sunxi.org would be appreciated :) |
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| 19:43.13 | thefrog | mnemoc: as soon as I can generate content (eg, have the knowledge), I'll be happy to do that. |
| 19:43.25 | thefrog | I know i can just register and update |
| 19:43.42 | mnemoc | :) |
| 19:44.39 | hno | mnemoc, looking at pio.c.. why all this complex I/O functions? Whats wrong with stdio in tools like this? |
| 19:45.50 | mnemoc | hno: you mean to read the whole dump before messing with it? |
| 19:46.00 | hno | yes. |
| 19:47.22 | mnemoc | hno: nothing in particular, I'm simply used to limit FILE* to streams, feel free to replace it |
| 19:50.12 | mnemoc | hno: the only valuable parts there is pin_get() and pin_set() |
| 19:50.22 | thefrog | It is already tomorrow for the build system.. that was a bit disconcerting |
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| 19:57.52 | mnemoc | hno: input handling needs to be remade anyway, to support stdin or file and dump or script.fex gpio notation |
| 19:59.15 | tzafrir_laptop | I'm trying to figure out how to get boot a Mele A1000 from a SD card I created |
| 20:00.06 | mnemoc | dd the spl at 8*1024 and uboot-mmc at 32*1024 |
| 20:02.16 | mnemoc | ah, sorry. misread |
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| 20:06.24 | CIA-122 | rhombus-tech: Alphon master * r5b4378815f9d /allwinner_a10/orders/DirtEx.mdwn: |
| 20:08.57 | rm | doesn't get what's to misread there |
| 20:09.18 | rm | or how that was not a relevant advice |
| 20:11.23 | mnemoc | the card is already created |
| 20:11.39 | tzafrir_laptop | I seem to be missing something obvious: how do I instruct a Mele A1000 unit to boot from the SD card? |
| 20:11.50 | mnemoc | by plugging it |
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| 20:13.20 | rm | tzafrir_laptop, it should "just work" |
| 20:13.42 | rm | if you have issues, I suggest that you don't try to piece together a bootable card yourself, but start with a whole premade .img |
| 20:14.21 | rm | and if *that* doesn't boot, try a different SD card (with a fading hope) |
| 20:14.54 | rm | then connect the serial console and welcome to the club of people with SD boot-up problems |
| 20:18.46 | tzafrir_laptop | I plugged the debug module, and ever since I can't see any sort of output |
| 20:19.06 | tzafrir_laptop | (I removed it. Didn't help) |
| 20:19.42 | mnemoc | then you plugged it incorrectly |
| 20:24.43 | tzafrir_laptop | I can hardly find documentation on how to do it properly. |
| 20:25.08 | tzafrir_laptop | I connected it according to the image in http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/TTL-to-USB-debug-board/511685_542914515.html and hoped for the best |
| 20:26.08 | mnemoc | tzafrir_laptop: ehm... that picture connects to the USB otg port |
| 20:26.43 | mnemoc | impressively wrong |
| 20:27.06 | mnemoc | tzafrir_laptop: the uart header is in front, going toward the dram chip |
| 20:27.48 | rz2k | mnemoc: we probably need a good picture here http://linux-sunxi.org/Mele_A1000 |
| 20:28.15 | rz2k | also text there references header that isnt labeled on any of the pictures around |
| 20:28.22 | mnemoc | rz2k: adding some markings on top of the board picture should be enough |
| 20:28.42 | mnemoc | marking uart, otg, fel and reset |
| 20:29.03 | mnemoc | rz2k: go ahead :) fighting $work$ atm :( |
| 20:29.17 | rz2k | doesnt have mele :/ |
| 20:29.41 | mnemoc | shame on you |
| 20:29.47 | rm | <mnemoc> impressively wrong <- someone should notify the authorities^W hipboi |
| 20:30.19 | mnemoc | nods |
| 20:31.36 | mnemoc | tzafrir_laptop will :) |
| 20:33.26 | tzafrir_laptop | mnemoc, also: what's the wiring? |
| 20:33.52 | mnemoc | tzafrir_laptop: gnd, tx, rx, nc, nc .... if you get no output, swap the tx and rx |
| 20:34.55 | mnemoc | hates js! |
| 20:34.59 | rm | I had to connect VCC |
| 20:35.04 | rm | on the MK802 |
| 20:35.07 | rm | did not work without it |
| 20:36.23 | mnemoc | tzafrir_laptop: err... 4 pins only. gnd, tx, rx, nc |
| 20:36.35 | mnemoc | rm: strange |
| 20:36.40 | tzafrir_laptop | so the wiring in the picture is incorrect: it misses rx (or tx) |
| 20:36.56 | mnemoc | tzafrir_laptop: the picture uses an USB header |
| 20:37.02 | mnemoc | tzafrir_laptop: it's 100% wrong |
| 20:37.31 | mnemoc | forget you ever saw it |
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| 20:41.28 | rm | with the MAX232 chip |
| 20:41.37 | rm | dunno maybe Tom's is a different one |
| 20:42.27 | mnemoc | if I connect VCC my pl2303 powers the whole device :< ... something to avoid |
| 20:43.16 | rm | also mine lacks the oscillator |
| 20:43.20 | rm | or how do you call it |
| 20:43.33 | rm | oh wait |
| 20:43.48 | rm | this is USB to TTL on the photo |
| 20:44.17 | rm | I use two separate dongles, USB to COM (pl2303) & COM to TTL (max232) |
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| 20:44.37 | mnemoc | why? :) |
| 20:44.52 | rm | becaaaaaaaause.... |
| 20:45.06 | rm | dunno, I already had a couple of USB-to-COMs |
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| 20:45.33 | rm | so just ordered COM to TTL some time ago, to revive my D-Link DNS-323 |
| 20:45.43 | rm | and they came handy now as well |
| 20:45.54 | mnemoc | Turl: wb! if you have some spare time, can you add markings for the uart, fel, otg and reset pins on top of the mele picture in the wiki? :) |
| 20:46.07 | mnemoc | rm: fair enough :) |
| 20:47.14 | Turl | mnemoc: not much time today, but I'll do tomorrow if you remind me to :) |
| 20:47.29 | mnemoc | by tomorrow I'll have forgotten too :p |
| 20:47.56 | Turl | I installed the 'nano' linaro img |
| 20:47.59 | Turl | + the mele server hwpack |
| 20:48.04 | Turl | works okay |
| 20:48.17 | Turl | other than it crawls when installing anything :) |
| 20:48.28 | mnemoc | nand sucks |
| 20:48.35 | Turl | it's on a sdcard |
| 20:48.40 | mnemoc | your card sucks |
| 20:48.41 | Turl | nand has android |
| 20:48.50 | Turl | it's a kingston class 4 I believe |
| 20:48.59 | mnemoc | your card sucks |
| 20:49.11 | mnemoc | :) |
| 20:49.16 | tzafrir_laptop | Sanity check: the "UART" is supposed to give me some sort of terminal (with speed of 115200), right? |
| 20:49.35 | Turl | I'm gonna do the heavy IO over USB anyway |
| 20:49.40 | Turl | tzafrir_laptop: yeah |
| 20:49.40 | mnemoc | tzafrir_laptop: yes |
| 20:50.45 | rm | Turl, eatmydata is your friend |
| 20:51.02 | Turl | rm: what? |
| 20:51.23 | Turl | I also see a crapton of <3>init: Failed to create pty - disabling logging for job |
| 20:51.25 | mnemoc | rm: nice toy |
| 20:51.28 | Turl | probably something missing on the kernel |
| 20:51.29 | rm | reroutes fsync to no-op |
| 20:51.42 | rm | for any given program you launch |
| 20:51.50 | rm | which speeds up package managers |
| 20:51.56 | rm | like apt/dpkg |
| 20:53.19 | Turl | looks interesting |
| 20:54.10 | Turl | samba: tick, mpd: tick, transmission: tick, openssh: tick, flexget.. aha, missing that one |
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| 20:59.50 | tzafrir_laptop | 0 luck with the debug module. The only thing it does is interrupting normal boot |
| 21:00.21 | tzafrir_laptop | I can't see anything on /dev/ttyUSB0 |
| 21:00.44 | mnemoc | tzafrir_laptop: where and how did you connect it? |
| 21:01.55 | tzafrir_laptop | There was just one other such connector in the front |
| 21:02.35 | mnemoc | tzafrir_laptop: show me a picture |
| 21:03.06 | mnemoc | the mele a2k has *3* free headers with pins |
| 21:03.33 | mnemoc | the uart is the one horizontal one next to the DRAM chip |
| 21:04.56 | tzafrir_laptop | What's the DRAM chip? |
| 21:05.02 | tzafrir_laptop | (connectors = back) |
| 21:05.14 | tzafrir_laptop | It's in the center-front |
| 21:05.20 | mnemoc | http://linux-sunxi.org/images/6/68/Mele-a2000-pcb-front.jpg <--- white header at the center/bottom of the picture |
| 21:06.23 | Turl | I can +1 that being the UART header, works perfectly over here :) |
| 21:06.32 | tzafrir_laptop | That's the one |
| 21:07.52 | tzafrir_laptop | ]]] |
| 21:09.51 | tzafrir_laptop | Either leg 1 or 4 is connecteg to gnd (the other is in the air). Legs 2 and 3 are connected to rx and tx (tried both combinations) |
| 21:11.17 | Turl | plug your usb device to pc and launch screen or minicom |
| 21:11.32 | Turl | then grab one of the middle pins and try on rx |
| 21:11.41 | Turl | if you don't see garbage then that's tx |
| 21:11.47 | Turl | if you see garbage it's rx |
| 21:12.22 | Turl | now when you have both tx and rx figured out plug one of the sides to gnd, if the garbage becomes text then that was gnd, otherwise it's the other side |
| 21:19.58 | CIA-122 | rhombus-tech: master * raad380cd2ed2 /allwinner_a10/orders/FuegoR.mdwn: |
| 21:22.41 | tzafrir_laptop | Turl, thanks. It works now. It actually worked even without the gnd connected |
| 21:23.56 | mnemoc | tzafrir_laptop: keep the gnd connected for safety |
| 21:24.20 | mnemoc | and don't connect the vcc |
| 21:25.18 | tzafrir_laptop | What's wrong with vcc? |
| 21:29.00 | CIA-122 | rhombus-tech: Brian master * r5c8dd4a07277 /allwinner_a10/orders/biccy.mdwn: |
| 21:29.44 | CIA-122 | rhombus-tech: Brian master * r599a88825a09 /allwinner_a10/orders/biccy.mdwn: |
| 21:30.00 | tzafrir_laptop | How do I login to the Debian Wheezy images in http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/a10_image/ ? |
| 21:30.24 | tzafrir_laptop | username / password for console login |
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| 21:51.17 | hno | mnemoc, added a bit more functionality to pio. Still missing code to dump/configure the interrupts & sdram parts (not port stuctured) |
| 21:53.52 | hno | mnemoc & tzafrir_laptop GND MUST be connected. It's not about safety, simple electrics. gnd is the return circuit for the electrons. If GND is not connected then the electrons will find some other return circuit and results may be quite unexpected (including possibly some magic blue smoke escaping from either part) |
| 21:55.20 | tzafrir_laptop | hno, it worked with only the tx wire connected |
| 21:55.45 | tzafrir_laptop | (that said, I did not count on it and did connect gnd) |
| 21:57.02 | tzafrir_laptop | I figure there may be other places for grounding. I'm not sure what it means to have the ground leg in the air |
| 21:57.06 | hno | tzafrir_laptop, you were lucky. Most only get garbage in such setups. |
| 21:58.06 | hno | tzafrir_laptop, if there is no common ground then the data lead may get basically any voltage within +/- your mains voltage. |
| 21:58.28 | hno | in extreme cases. |
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| 22:01.33 | hno | usually reasonable levels however. |
| 22:03.53 | Turl|| | mnemoc: mele has no 3.5mm audio jack? :( |
| 22:08.18 | *** join/#arm-netbook Gujs (~Gujs@cpe-92-37-83-13.dynamic.amis.net) |
| 22:08.26 | hno | Turl||, correct. There is very few uses of that given that you nearly always connect a mele type device to something that have an audio jack. |
| 22:08.55 | hno | i.e. TV and/or amplifier. |
| 22:09.04 | Turl|| | hno: my 2.1 speakers have 3.5mm jack |
| 22:11.20 | Turl|| | my mele likes to have a randomized MAC address on every boot too |
| 22:12.05 | mnemoc | hno: great! thanks for turning `pio` into something useful :) cmd_set_pin is also missing <default> support, which translate to -1 meaning, don't touch in .fex lingo |
| 22:12.22 | mnemoc | Turl||: there are 3.5 to RCA cables |
| 22:13.08 | mnemoc | Turl||: for the MAC edit the dynamic.MAC value in script.bin |
| 22:13.17 | Turl|| | mnemoc: yeah but I'd need yet another cable :) |
| 22:13.42 | mnemoc | Turl||: or new rca speakers :) |
| 22:31.39 | hno | mnemoc, fixed, plus some other bugfixes. |
| 22:34.03 | mnemoc | hno: about the irq and dram info, do we need something more than print? |
| 22:34.30 | hno | printing is a good start. |
| 22:35.29 | tzafrir_laptop | In the Debian image, eth0 should be "allow-hotplug" rather than "auto" |
| 22:35.33 | hno | unlikely any of that will be needed via fel. But might need to diagnose PIO settings in other contexts. |
| 22:35.47 | tzafrir_laptop | That way its startup will not stall the system startup |
| 22:48.34 | *** join/#arm-netbook tuliom (~tuliom@177.99.129.171) |
| 22:51.36 | *** join/#arm-netbook tuliom_ (~tuliom@186.214.72.144) |
| 22:53.56 | *** join/#arm-netbook robws (~robws1@38.99.170.111) |
| 22:56.23 | Turl|| | smb runs like crap on the mele |
| 22:56.47 | Turl|| | sftp performs better even |
| 23:02.19 | WarheadsSE | hasnt tried it yet |
| 23:02.27 | WarheadsSE | will tonight |
| 23:03.13 | L84Supper | http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/07/google-postpones-nexus-q-launch-to-add-new-features/ too bad one feature won't be an unlocked bootloader |
| 23:03.45 | Turl|| | L84Supper: I doubt google would ever lock a nexus :) |
| 23:03.59 | Turl|| | the q should have full fastboot support |
| 23:04.46 | traeak | ftp baby |
| 23:05.02 | lundman | llink baby |
| 23:05.07 | Turl|| | traeak: ftp is insecure |
| 23:05.35 | Turl|| | I mean, I'm in a LAN and I don't really care about security, but I'd rather not set up ftp :) |
| 23:05.45 | L84Supper | OMAP4460 (dual-core ARM Cortex-A9 CPU and SGX540 graphics core) |
| 23:06.15 | Turl|| | L84Supper: yeah, should be the same as on Galaxy Nexus |
| 23:06.15 | L84Supper | oh, so this one doesn't use Marvell |
| 23:06.42 | WarheadsSE | nope, a panda variant system |
| 23:06.54 | traeak | heh |
| 23:06.58 | WarheadsSE | will have support in Arch Linux ARM within days.. |
| 23:09.57 | traeak | i guess sftp can work if you make the transfer unencrypted |
| 23:10.30 | L84Supper | http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G133999328931 |
| 23:10.38 | L84Supper | Shipment Schedule 1st batch from 30th of July : your order between 1st of July and 11th of July |
| 23:10.50 | L84Supper | anyone get in on the first batch? |
| 23:12.03 | L84Supper | CPU module is not detachable, epoxy molded. .... figures |
| 23:12.09 | WarheadsSE | We (Arch Linux ARM) has several that ship tomorrow |
| 23:13.11 | L84Supper | they make it so that you can't make a product with the module you get with the dev board |
| 23:13.12 | lundman | everyone ftps with ssl these days |
| 23:13.41 | L84Supper | and no pricing on the modules yet either |
| 23:13.57 | xenoxaos | actually, WarheadsSE, ours ship the 13th |
| 23:14.39 | WarheadsSE | ah, oops |
| 23:15.01 | WarheadsSE | or we just us sftp lundman |
| 23:16.39 | L84Supper | I wonder if Samsung cripples hardkernel the way TI does with the supply of parts for the Pandaboard |
| 23:17.42 | WarheadsSE | Turl||: ~ crap to ext3 usb flash |
| 23:17.54 | WarheadsSE | 4-8MB/s |
| 23:18.28 | WarheadsSE | chews cpu too |
| 23:19.18 | Turl|| | my USB drive is NTFS #blameTurl |
| 23:19.54 | WarheadsSE | heh, ext3 mounted with ext4 module (apparently), to PNY flash |
| 23:19.56 | WarheadsSE | suck. |
| 23:22.29 | xenoxaos | i wish there was a decent compressed FS for block devices |
| 23:22.57 | lundman | zfs |
| 23:23.28 | xenoxaos | doesnt that have a lot of overhead though? |
| 23:23.55 | traeak | yes :-p |
| 23:24.02 | lundman | takes memory sure, but it is also very good at what it does |
| 23:24.16 | traeak | google has something |
| 23:24.21 | traeak | crap i can't remember the name of the compression |
| 23:24.34 | lundman | it has 3 |
| 23:26.48 | traeak | looks liek "snappy" hasn't been integrated into any filesystem |
| 23:27.07 | lundman | and I mean native zfs, not fuse-zfs :) |
| 23:27.18 | traeak | okay wrong, btrfs has a snappy plugin |
| 23:27.41 | lundman | ick |
| 23:34.39 | Turl|| | hm, why doesn't this image have alsa support :| |
