IRC log for #arm-netbook on 20120616

00:06.18*** join/#arm-netbook naobsd (7c294571@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.41.69.113)
00:27.23*** join/#arm-netbook nibb (~jyuyu@41.202.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
01:57.56*** join/#arm-netbook nibb (~jyuyu@41.202.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
01:58.43*** join/#arm-netbook EricBetts (bettse@gateway/shell/sudoers/x-zepsiprmibdozman)
02:31.00Triffid_Hunterhm, so A10 can assign various peripherals to any gpio? intriguing
03:16.39*** join/#arm-netbook ZaEarl (~malmrose@119.224.25.149)
03:27.10*** join/#arm-netbook DonkeyHotei (~danielg4@50-0-149-176.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
03:46.56*** join/#arm-netbook nibb (~jyuyu@41.202.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
05:01.11*** join/#arm-netbook nibb (~jyuyu@41.202.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
05:02.25*** join/#arm-netbook mikey_w (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
05:12.20hp_darn Win32 Disk Imager is really alpha.. gota write the image to uSD in linux!!!
05:43.12*** join/#arm-netbook ZaEarl (~malmrose@119.224.25.149)
05:54.33*** join/#arm-netbook gsilvis (~almostsix@50.12.163.241)
06:44.13*** join/#arm-netbook Quarx (~Quarx@94.137.11.111)
06:58.09*** join/#arm-netbook gimli (~gimli@xbmc/staff/gimli)
07:02.01hnoTriffid_Hunter, not any gpio. But pretty mich all I/O pins except for DRAM have multiple functions where the default function is GPIO.
07:02.19*** join/#arm-netbook nibb (~jyuyu@41.202.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
07:06.30hnotraeak, http://fpaste.org/Y6oJ/
07:06.42hnosorry, Triffid_Hunter http://fpaste.org/Y6oJ/
07:21.04*** join/#arm-netbook eFfeM (~frans@g235028.upc-g.chello.nl)
07:32.09*** join/#arm-netbook nibb (~jyuyu@41.202.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
07:40.50*** join/#arm-netbook eebrah (~Ibrahim_K@212.49.88.109)
08:22.26*** join/#arm-netbook nibb (~jyuyu@41.202.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
08:42.16*** join/#arm-netbook rell01 (~chatzilla@p4FE56188.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
09:22.09*** join/#arm-netbook eebrah (~Ibrahim_K@212.49.88.105)
09:42.02*** join/#arm-netbook naobsd (7c294571@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.41.69.113)
09:57.00mnemocTurl: ping
09:57.53technologov_Anyone knows sun6i spec ?
09:58.07technologov_I'm happy to come back !
09:58.29technologov_Yesterday I learned quite a bit about the A10 and various ARM devices :)
09:58.38mnemoctechnologov_: nope, absolute secret. we only know it exists because of a line left in a Makefile
09:58.58*** join/#arm-netbook nibb (~jyuyu@41.202.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
09:59.47mnemocbut I (want to) believe it will be a fair competitor for imx.6
09:59.58technologov_Can (desktop) DDR3 SDRAM slot be used with A10 ? Or it requires 64-bit wide memory ?
10:00.35technologov_The imx.6 has only 1 big advantage: PCIe... and one small advantage: multi-core
10:00.54specingmulti-core is a small advantage you say?
10:03.18technologov_Due to pricing...
10:03.32technologov_the multi-core imx6 costs $30 vs $7 for A10
10:03.33specingYou get what you pay for
10:04.02technologov_If it was for same $7 dual-core it would be big advantage, for $30, not really.
10:04.19specinglol $7 dual-core
10:04.21technologov_Also the cheap imx.6 lacks SATA
10:04.38specingNot in a decade, no
10:04.40technologov_Why not ? A10 is made on 55nm.
10:04.59specingDo you know how much 22nm equipment costs?
10:04.59technologov_If they upg to 28m, they will have 4x transistor budget, for same price.
10:05.13specingDo you?!
10:05.18technologov_yes.
10:05.23specingTell me
10:05.36technologov_$9-$10 billion for a Fab.
10:06.02technologov_But I dunno how much contract costs for producing 1 million A10 chips on 55 nm vs on 28 nm on TSMC
10:06.15steev...
10:06.33specingYou may notice that it is not that cheap
10:06.47steevspecing: speak for yourself
10:06.56steev9-10 bil is pocket change for me
10:07.04mnemoc:p
10:07.08technologov_(@_@)
10:07.21specingsteev: Im looking forward to you producing 1nm chips
10:07.46steevmnemoc got it
10:08.28technologov_Just saying that the $30 versions of ARM are not so cool, as they won't allow to build super-cheap PCs.
10:08.32steevand if the #'s are there, you can get the multi core mx6 for much less than 30 dollars.  also, if you ahve a good fae
10:08.46steevtechnologov_: that's for quad core, not dual core
10:09.15steevand really, wtf do you expect? it's quad core.  4 cores x $7 = 28
10:10.35technologov_well.. I see those imx.6 chips have GigE + integrated PHY :)
10:10.46technologov_So it is possible to integrate PHY on-chip
10:10.55mnemocthe amazing part is that if they are pon compatible those $20 are the sole difference in the BOM between the basic version and the ass-kicking version
10:11.12mnemocs/pon/pin/
10:11.23steevtechnologov_: yes, and also have opencl/opengl, and *2* ipu units
10:11.45steevmnemoc: iirc the dual and quad are pin compatible, not solo
10:11.52mnemocmeh
10:11.53steevbut i could be wrong and it's solo+quad
10:12.09*** join/#arm-netbook nibb (~jyuyu@41.202.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
10:12.10steev2 of them are, one of them isn't, i just don't recall and the docs aren't public yet
10:14.00*** join/#arm-netbook MaDMaLKaV (~IceChat9@188.86.253.69)
10:16.25mnemocwants his ~12" efika quad imx6 laptop!
10:18.33steevso do i
10:18.37mnemoc:)
10:27.31technologov_How about VPU there ? Which model is it ?
10:27.40technologov_Drivers for Linux exist ?
10:27.42steevvpu where?
10:27.51technologov_in imx6
10:27.54steevyes
10:27.57steevand yes
10:29.21technologov_What a video decoder driver should look like ? Libva patches ? or libvpx patches ?
10:29.33technologov_or ffmpeg patches?
10:29.36steevideally libva
10:32.04technologov_but modern media players call Xine or ffmpeg codecs directly. How to force them to use libva ?
10:34.00steevffmpeg uses libva and has since their 0.6.1 release (2010 sometime)
10:34.35steevnot my fault if your distro of choice prefers to keep ancient versions :)
10:34.49technologov_Debian-stable :)
10:40.49technologov_well, libxine uses ffmpeg's "libavcodec", so it should be accelerated...
10:41.17technologov_But libVA does not know itself about specific codecs, does it ?
10:47.05steevno idea, i don't do multimedia work
10:53.02steevshakes his fist at devicetree
10:53.15steevi have everything in place, except ONE minor thing
10:53.25steevno idea where it goes though, or even what it is
10:53.34steevbut it causes the dtb to not be built
10:53.50RITRedbeardWhat about getting a lapdock and a m802 and calling it a day?
10:54.52RITRedbeardI have both coming on the way but the lapdock is just an intermediary developement thing for me. They were having/still are having a firesale of the Motorola Atrix 4G Lapdocks
10:55.05RITRedbeardUsually $200, dropped down to $100 and some were used for $50-75 USD
10:55.09RITRedbeardon Amazon
10:55.24steevisn't the m802 an mx51 device?
10:55.41mnemocRITRedbeard: beware the lapdock has MALE microusb/microhdmi connectors
10:56.20RITRedbeardmk802, http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/07/mk802-android-4-0-mini-pc-hands-on-impressions/
10:56.29hnom802? I know mk802 but not m802
10:56.41hnomk802 is an A10.
10:56.41RITRedbeardmnemoc, oooh, thanks, I haven't ordered gender converter or cables yet :)
10:58.31technologov_mk802+ has 1 GB RAM
10:59.02RITRedbeardYeah, the Atrix 4G one that was price dropped has proper resolution (1024x786) @ 11.1" via HDMI, keyboard and trackpad, and battery (36WH, not sure of output capabilities)
11:01.32hnotechnologov_, A10 is only 16 or 32-bit memory bus. So you can't utilize standard desktop modules.
11:01.33RITRedbeardYeah, I just bit the bullet for the 512MB/normal one. I've been waiting for the Raspberry Pi since before the start of last summer... done waiting.
11:02.06RITRedbeardIt was in stock, so, boom.
11:02.17technologov_hno, that what was I afraid of.
11:03.05technologov_RITRedbeard, use cases ? porting software to ARM ?
11:03.17*** join/#arm-netbook Brandon15811_ (~Brandon15@ec2linux.exaktop.tk)
11:04.13*** join/#arm-netbook robws (~robws1@38.99.170.111)
11:04.14RITRedbeardI was actually interested in education/computer science goals of RPi, why ARM? Use cases for this?
11:04.47RITRedbeardMy plan is to resurrect these really comfortable old Thinkpads from Celerons to ARM.
11:05.23RITRedbeardI'm interested in developing for ARM and also Linux.
11:06.29RITRedbeardI do it for a living, but usually at a high level of abstraction, I've been using Windows a long time... hard to mess around with Windows when you have a different architecture.
11:06.44hnotechnologov_, with a theoretical upper limit of 2GB and practical limit of 1GB it's not really an issue
11:07.16RITRedbeardAlso, I'm a strict believer in Wirth's Law or the spirit of it, anyway.
11:07.52RITRedbeardI mean these old Thinkpads I want to frankenstein run particularly well with slimline distros like Puppy and DSL
11:09.22RITRedbeardHowever, they're quite power hungry for what they are given the die size and architecture age.
11:11.03RITRedbeardI'd be interested in something like AMD's Llano but it's still at an annoying price point despite being a good product.
11:11.09RITRedbeardOr good solution.
11:12.17RITRedbeardSo I've turned to ARM because they don't make what I want >:)
11:12.40*** join/#arm-netbook nibb (~jyuyu@41.202.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
11:14.59RITRedbeardtechnologov_, and yourself?
11:25.13technologov_I wanna build cheap noise-free PC
11:25.35technologov_Linux/KDE
11:28.04naobsdhttp://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=27477630#post27477630 CWM for MK802. it supports HDMI/keyboard/mouse. ramdisk in this image is almost generic for A10 ICS devices so feel free to use it on your device.
11:34.26naobsd(hopefull generic...)
11:35.04naobsdbtw mele HDMI output uses overscan area?
11:35.37naobsdI guess stock Android always scaling down to visible area
11:36.37naobsdI need to learn about ioctls for scaler
11:36.46RITRedbeardtechnologov_, yeah. I bought a netbook when Asus started the craze and I realize it was pretty crappy $300 investment
11:37.13RITRedbeardIt wouldn't have been quite as bad if these manufacturers would please stop using 1024x600
11:37.42RITRedbeardand all day computing my ass, despite the supposed 7800mAh battery
11:48.09technologov_netbooks are pretty good; Despite the super-slow CPU, they work for 6-8 hrs
11:48.19technologov_ASUS eeePC with 6-cell battery
11:48.50technologov_So despite the poor benchmarks, the netbook is useful, esp. due to built-in 3G modem and long battery life.
11:49.17RITRedbeardI can't stand the chicklet keyboard, crap resolution, cheap chassis feel, extra glossy, etc
11:49.45technologov_The Intel Atom CPU 1600 (of 2011) managed to lose to my desktop CPU from 2001 (AMD Athlon 1400), yay !
11:49.46RITRedbeardI agree, they're useful but in the beginning it was a rip
11:50.17RITRedbeardespecially the old atoms and the power hungry northbridges
11:50.20technologov_it was not a rip. $500 netbook vs. $2000+ sub-notebook is good deal.
11:50.48technologov_the power-hungry northbridges give me 8 hours of battery life, so I don't complain.
11:50.49RITRedbeardEh, sub-notebook as in wikipedia definition of the word?
11:50.55RITRedbeardor between 9-12"?
11:51.00RITRedbeard3 lbs or less?
11:51.27technologov_sub-notebook = high-priced laptops, with serious CPU and Windows (XP) Pro. Other than that, they are similar to netbooks.
11:51.36technologov_yes, under 12"
11:52.04technologov_sub-notebooks, and I worked on those, are sub-par in user-experience and extremely high cost devices
11:53.00technologov_They lack GPU, lack DVD, lack ...
11:53.11technologov_and have limited RAM
11:53.37technologov_so $2000 sub-notebooks are not much more useful than netbooks (only a bit better)
11:53.57RITRedbeardLike Vaios?
11:54.25technologov_not sure... I used some old Toshiba models, not Vaio
11:55.23technologov_Ultra-book are likely be use-less devices. They are not balanced. Have over-powered CPU, but weak everything else...
11:55.32technologov_but we'll see...
11:55.52technologov_Intel wants to market $1000 ultra-books with $300 CPUs :)
11:56.03technologov_+$30 chipset
11:56.13technologov_so 1/3 of price is just CPU
11:56.54technologov_the PC (ARM or x86) needs to be balanced.
11:56.56RITRedbeardYeah, I'm kinda moving away from my desktop after travelling a lot for co-op and school
11:57.11RITRedbeardI kinda fell in love with my Thinkpad T400
11:57.31specing"< technologov_> They lack GPU, lack DVD, lack ..."
11:57.42specingWTF does one need DVD readers?
11:58.02RITRedbeardThe switchable graphics are the only thing I don't particularly like, however, it is very easy/possible to connect minipci express with ExpressCard adapter
11:58.04technologov_mmm... I keep videos and backup data on DVDs.
11:58.12specingLOL
11:58.19technologov_(but slowly moving towards USB HDDs)
11:58.40*** join/#arm-netbook Faqtotum (~danielg4@50-0-149-176.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
11:58.44specingI see you are lagging ca. 10 years after the world
11:58.48RITRedbeardThat's understandable. I recently got a 1.5 TB USB drive... not sure what to do with so much storage.
11:59.01technologov_.. I also tried Blu-rays, but unhappy. Price is high, and only 25 GB makes it difficult to backup 1 TB of storage on Blue-rays...
11:59.19RITRedbeardI mean, well, besides uh, 'back up movies' from school's internal special student setup p2p
11:59.55RITRedbeardI feel your pain. I've been looking for cheap archival-ish storage for a little bit.
12:00.29RITRedbeardYou're not going to be able to beat 20GB/$ or whatever we're at currently unless you have a special deal :)
12:00.33technologov_I have like 300 DVDs here :)
12:00.35*** join/#arm-netbook nibb (~jyuyu@41.202.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
12:01.11RITRedbeardI actually want to make an optical jukebox with DVD drives in RAID
12:01.20specing...
12:01.27RITRedbeardor optical jukebox in general
12:01.36RITRedbeardthey have commerical ones, but they're obviously expensive
12:01.37technologov_so yes, I have strong legacy issues. I used Win 98 until 2004, had floppy until 2010, used serial RS232 few years ago, etc...
12:01.54RITRedbeardnothing wrong with that
12:02.40technologov_The 1TB DVD-like optical media was promised, but never delivered. I'm dead sure that I will buy that one, assuming good prices.
12:03.10technologov_the optical storage is damn cheap.
12:03.23libvnot cheap enough
12:03.33specingNobody is going to bother with one-time-only storage media anymore
12:03.34libvwho still burns DVDs today, for instance?
12:03.35technologov_blue-ray not.
12:03.51technologov_libv, I still burn blu-rays :-)
12:03.58libvpeople just buy a massive 1-3TB disk
12:04.03specingexactly
12:04.06technologov_DVDs too, but more rarely.
12:04.29specingI haven't bought a DVD in my entire life
12:04.34specingOr a CD
12:04.43technologov_ha ha ? then how you backup data @ home ?
12:04.51libvyou can get those jumbo sized things unbelievably cheaply, they are easy, reliable, and there when you need it
12:04.51specingAnd I've never even seen a blueray in person
12:04.57specingtechnologov_: 1T disks?
12:05.16technologov_but in 1998-2002 time frame there was NO alternative to CD burner.
12:05.26technologov_HDDs were too big to be backed up on floppy
12:05.45technologov_and until 2002 (or 2004?) there were no USB HDDs either
12:05.53libvbest back-up technology today... buy another disk
12:06.55specingtechnologov_: Why do you need a USB HDD?
12:07.07specingjust buy a regular sata one and plug it in
12:07.31technologov_mmm... for another layer of backup. I never keep just one copy. So one copy goes on USB HDD, and another into optical media (DVD/BD)
12:07.49RITRedbeardHonestly, I kind of regret my USB HDD purchase (I have a laptop)
12:08.11RITRedbeardonly because the interface is very slowwwww despite being USB 2.0
12:08.32technologov_I just bought external USB 3.0 Seagate HDD
12:08.45technologov_and it rocks ! ~100 MB/s !
12:08.53RITRedbeardI'm done with desktop computers, pretty much.
12:08.56technologov_vs. 20 MB/s for older USB 2.0 model
12:08.58specingtechnologov_: buy another HDD and keep a redundant copy there?
12:09.51RITRedbeardWith the ability to connect to 1x PCI Express to lappy :)
12:10.00Triffid_Hunteryeah I'm done with desktops too I think.. soo handy having a UPS in /every/ machine automagically
12:10.15technologov_yes, Light Peak allows for external PCIe...
12:10.17RITRedbeardbut my next "desktop" I build will probably be just NAS and cruncher
12:10.29RITRedbeardOh, you can already do it.
12:10.47RITRedbeardYou just need to do it via ExpressCard and some laptops give you hassle...
12:11.03*** join/#arm-netbook A1Sheds (~ly@adsl-75-57-153-57.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net)
12:11.04*** join/#arm-netbook A1Sheds (~ly@unaffiliated/l84supper)
12:11.06technologov_RITRedbeard, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolt_(interface)
12:11.18RITRedbeardThe only issue though is you need an external monitor, last time I checked.
12:11.51technologov_would be fun connecting some external NVIDIA GPU to some sub-notebook for decent gaming :)
12:11.59RITRedbeardtechnologov_, http://forum.notebookreview.com/e-gpu-external-graphics-discussion/418851-diy-egpu-experiences.html :)
12:14.43RITRedbeardsort of a hack, though
12:16.06technologov_Really COOL !
12:16.31RITRedbeardsome laptop bioses have whitelists
12:17.04RITRedbeardbut if you're willing to spend the money for the adapter stuff, probably have a spare card and PSU lying around
12:17.18RITRedbeardand if it works painlessly, you can get a switching PSU brick instead of ATX PSU
12:22.33RITRedbeardtechnologov_, it's a lot of info but you mean like this guy's rig? http://forum.notebookreview.com/7816773-post123.html
12:22.36RITRedbeardhehe
12:24.59mnemocRITRedbeard: if you want to repurpose laptops with pcmcia connector look at http://elinux.org/Embedded_Open_Modular_Architecture/EOMA-68
12:27.01technologov_looks good :)
12:27.59mnemocbut you need a custom IO board where to connect the module and the periferals of the laptop
12:28.02RITRedbeardmnemoc, this exists?
12:28.19mnemocRITRedbeard: not yet, but it's comming
12:28.20RITRedbeardThat's basically stealing my thunder, except I don't want to have them of any form factor.
12:28.30technologov_but eGPU can't be connected to netbooks ? (sad)
12:28.54mnemocRITRedbeard: in theory this channel is about eoma68
12:29.09RITRedbeardI see.
12:29.48ManoftheSeamnemoc: I thought it was about arm-netbooks, and it happens that EOMA is a good way to do so?
12:30.26technologov_there are $90 ARM netbooks (with Android) with A10 CPU in china
12:30.29RITRedbeardMy concept is a bit looser than that but I'm interested if anyone has ways to interface with pre-existing LVDS affordably
12:31.10mnemocManoftheSea: well... 4ya it was created for the quest of finding open source friendly arm-based netbooks
12:31.47mnemocManoftheSea: but it got revived, together with the mailing list, for eoma
12:32.26RITRedbeardtechnologov_, most netbooks don't have mPCIe or express card I don't think
12:32.28mnemocManoftheSea: but the topic has been extended again
12:33.00mnemocManoftheSea: that's why I said "in theory"
12:33.35ManoftheSeaok.
12:33.56ManoftheSeaso... who's doing the eoma wiring?
12:34.22mnemoclkcl's associates
12:36.18ManoftheSeaIt's nice that it's a good idea that isn't processor dependent.
12:38.41mnemocand easily replaceable/swapable
12:41.54ManoftheSeabecause this one proc is taking a good deal of time.
12:42.08technologov_why is EOMA CPU needed?
12:42.09ManoftheSeacompared to 4 years, nah, it's not that bad.
12:42.16technologov_A10 based netbooks exist
12:42.20technologov_only drivers are needed
12:42.44ManoftheSeatechnologov_: first, it's a step toward forcing open-source drivers
12:42.59ManoftheSeasecond, it makes for a reduction in waste when upgrading a laptop
12:43.08ManoftheSeathird, it's flexible beyond laptops.
12:43.09*** join/#arm-netbook nibb (~jyuyu@41.202.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
12:43.49ManoftheSeaSince there's a patent on using the EOMA connector, anyone releasing EOMA would either need to be FSF endorseable, or get licensed.
12:44.13ManoftheSeaFSF-endorsement requires opensource drivers.  Yay, freedom.
12:44.56ManoftheSeaAs for waste:  If you could take a laptop from 5 years ago and "magically" make the processor one of todays, would you?
12:45.07ManoftheSeaI would.  The screen isn't bad.  The shape is still fine.
12:45.18ManoftheSeaIt's just "slow"
12:45.19mnemoclike what RITRedbeard wants to do with the celeron laptops
12:45.38ManoftheSeaRITRedbeard of HacDC?
12:46.13RITRedbeardNo. There is someone using my name?
12:46.19RITRedbeardI can't catch a break.
12:46.24ManoftheSeaAnd the extensibility:  Someone wants to make a "blade-cluster" of EOMA cards in a rackmount
12:46.42ManoftheSeaRITRedbeard: I can't believe "Redbeard" is all that uncommon.
12:46.59RITRedbeardbut my school's name is right there man
12:47.01ManoftheSeaRochester Institute of Technology?
12:47.09RITRedbeardYeah.
12:47.26ManoftheSeaIsn't that in NY?
12:47.37RITRedbeardYup.
12:48.11ManoftheSeaI seem to think I know several former grads of RIT.  So, they come to DC, and some of them are gingers.
12:48.13mnemocNY people comes to IRC too :p
12:48.29ManoftheSeaThus...  yeah, your name just isn't that unique.
12:48.54ManoftheSeaOn the other hand, I don't know my redbeard by "RITRedbeard", just that I thought it plausible he went to RIT
12:49.23lkclManoftheSea: the patent - which is the sole and exclusive revenue for the entire rhombus-tech project - covers "reuse of legacy connectors housings sockets and assemblies for mass-volume computing purposes"
12:50.24lkclcorrection: the patent is also the sole and exclusive "protection" against deliberate, malicious, hostile, dangerous or plain incompetent and incompatible implementations of EOMA.
12:51.25ManoftheSeaso yeah, that.
12:51.49ManoftheSealkcl, I knew that, but I did not express it.  If I gave a wrong "off-the-cuff" impression, I'm sorry.
12:51.53lkcltechnologov_: there's a hell of a lot of thought gone into the EOMA project.  its scope is incredibly ambitious, and very exciting.
12:52.10lkclManoftheSea: no, you didn't - no need to apologise - i was just being more complete
12:52.18ManoftheSeaMuch like GPL is protected by copyright, EOMA will be protected by patent
12:52.47lkclit's the only way to make sure that the project will succeed on the scale that it's designed for.
12:53.03ManoftheSealkcl, "sole and exclusive"?  I thought your director-team was going to decide on markup on your cards, for next round funding
12:53.35lkclwe simply cannot have some random stupid (or deliberately hostile) company creating cards that will e.g. short-circuit the battery and cause the units to catch fire
12:53.44ManoftheSeawell, yeah.
12:54.05lkclmarkup => patent licensing markup / profit margin - yes.
12:54.15RITRedbeardshrugs.
12:54.23ManoftheSeasorry, I said "your".  I mean, the Allwinner A10 EOMA-68 cards
12:54.56lkclthere's not _been_ any funding!  at all!  the entire project has got this far based on people going "that's cool enough to run with: i'll do the work at cost"
12:55.12lkclwhich is pretty amazing if you think about it
12:55.29ManoftheSeaHmm?  I didn't imply there was funding so far.
12:55.37ManoftheSeaThough...  what's wrong with kickstarter?
12:55.41specingNo funding? how did you get the patent registered?
12:55.43lkcl"for next round funding"
12:55.48lkclspecing: personal funds.
12:55.50ManoftheSeahis own input
12:55.53RITRedbeardAs long as you don't pull an Eben Upton.
12:56.09specinglkcl: How much does it cost to register it?
12:56.10ManoftheSeawas that ubuntu or XO?
12:56.38RITRedbeard"Yeah, we want to make electronics here. In the UK. Pick 'n place and assembly. In the West."
12:56.51ManoftheSeawait, is that RPi?
12:56.54RITRedbeard"Apparently it's expensive after some extensive research and we've delayed again!"
12:57.18lkclRITRedbeard: i don't know who eben upton is, but if you look at what i've done, and what i've written (100 articles on advogato for example), and if you knew a bit more about me, you'd find that i'm up-front (bluntly so) and honest.  and actually apologise if i make a mistake.
12:57.23RITRedbeardWhere extensive should have been five seconds of common sense.
12:57.37ManoftheSealkcl also designed a small car.
12:57.38lkclRITRedbeard: and get *regularly* mis-quoted.
12:57.42RITRedbeardOh, I'm not saying that.
12:57.53RITRedbeardI'm just saying I'm sour with the Raspberry Pi Foundation.
12:58.08ManoftheSeanone of us have journalistic integrity to get the quotes right.
12:58.14ManoftheSea"LKCL promised me a pony"
12:58.17RITRedbeardSo many hiccups that could have been avoided easily.
12:58.25lkclRITRedbeard: well, i'm mentioning that, because i said "the BOM is $15" and slashdot said "rhombus tech is selling systems for $15"...
12:59.01lkclso we've been fending off stupid requests for 1+ units @ $15 for quite some time.... :)
12:59.11RITRedbeardPeople still visit slashdot? Hmm...
12:59.26ManoftheSeaRITRedbeard: The problem I have with the RPi is "for education", but then you can't rebuild your own environment.  Closed blobs.
12:59.27lkclgives ManoftheSea a pony. with a long white horn 'n' everyfing
12:59.49ManoftheSeathat's a unicorn.  Do I look like a virginal maiden?  What am I gonna do with a unicorn?
13:00.08lkclsell it to a virginal maiden?
13:00.13RITRedbeardManoftheSea, yeah, there are many problems with the idea. Also there is the fact that not a single child has one yet.
13:00.16RITRedbeardHell, I don't even have one.
13:00.19ManoftheSeathat cheapens the unicorn
13:00.44lkclok ok give it to a virginal maiden, and smile sweetly at her at the same time
13:02.22ManoftheSeait's not even systems.  It's the guts of a system, in 100,000+, to the resaler.  Right?
13:02.26lkclso... what's wrong with kickstarter? well... where do i start.  i've spoken to them 4 times now.  they continue to move the goalposts.  "there has to be a community which wants the product" is the latest one
13:03.24RITRedbeardI've heard much buzz about this Kickstarter thing, sounds like some sort of bubble that is going to burst at some point.
13:03.24lkclpreviously it was "you cannot be a company"
13:03.30specingHow did they define the "community"?
13:03.33RITRedbeardHave any projects been completed?
13:04.03RITRedbeardIt's like a flashback to the 90s
13:04.03ManoftheSeaah.  I remember this was talked about, in like... January
13:04.07lkclspecing: just "a community" surrounding the project.
13:04.30RITRedbeardThat's a bit ridiculous.
13:04.33lkclManoftheSea: i spoke to them again since then, and got the "sorry you have to have a community that wants the product" response
13:04.37RITRedbeardHow does Kickstarter make their money?
13:04.52RITRedbeardThey have a hustle, yeah?
13:04.53lkclRITRedbeard: percentage.  or possibly just the interest on the funds.
13:05.32lkclRITRedbeard: all these crowdsource funding sites do.  you just have to take that into account when raising the funds.
13:05.32ManoftheSeadid you show them the preorders?
13:05.42ManoftheSeaI thought the funding was how you demonstrate a community.
13:05.50ManoftheSeaAKA, that the kickstarter gets funded.
13:05.54lkclManoftheSea: ... you know what?  i didn't!
13:06.16ManoftheSeais gobsmacked.
13:06.20ManoftheSearookie mistake man.
13:06.27RITRedbeardI hate to sound unprofessional and mean, but the Kickstarter people sound like giant dicks.
13:06.29ManoftheSeagets off his high horse er... unicorn
13:06.56lkcli don't believe it was up to 782 entries at the time i spoke to them, though
13:07.22ManoftheSea"entries",  but some of those are for more than one, right?
13:07.25ManoftheSeaMany more than one.
13:08.16lkclManoftheSea: that's correct.
13:08.35lkcl"As per our guidelines, we don't allow fundraising for general startup or business expenses."
13:09.08lkcl"Kickstarter is a funding platform dedicated to focused and finite creative projects that offer tangible, personal rewards to an engaged community."
13:09.38ManoftheSeamy speculation, and Luke can neither confirm nor deny, is that China wants to use EOMA as their whole-country architecture.
13:10.12lkclhand-waving
13:10.30lkclehhhh... it's not that clearcut... give me 1 second.... just writing to kickstarter....
13:10.54ManoftheSeaoh?  China and the MOON?!
13:11.09ManoftheSeaLook man, I'm just playing
13:11.17ManoftheSeaIf it were true, you couldn't talk about it anyway.
13:13.35lkcl:)
13:13.37lkclright.
13:14.08lkclok, it's not so clear-cut, because the PRC-state-sponsored company we're talking to are... well... they're mostly and/or effectively civil servants
13:14.11ManoftheSeahow else would you have the clout to just give away unicorns.
13:14.15ManoftheSeaNamed Rarity.
13:14.17lkcland they're not ... ha ha
13:14.46lkclthey're under some quite restrictive... circumstances.
13:15.02lkclPRC-state-sponsored employees get veeery low salaries, but *enormous* benefits packages
13:15.17ManoftheSeahookers and blow?
13:15.19lkclone of which is a pension for life... *if* you don't get fired for doing something stupid
13:15.20lkcl:)
13:15.27ManoftheSeaor, wait... china: Geisha and opium?
13:15.40ManoftheSeano... geisha are Japanese.  My bad.
13:15.42lkcland healthcare, and education for your kids, and... and...
13:15.58lkclis there a china equivalent of geisha?  massage parlour?
13:16.07ManoftheSeaI don't want to think about it.
13:16.30lkclso they simply can't afford - personally - to take any risks.... so instead of making a decision (at all) they do... nothing.
13:16.35lkclbecause it's safer
13:16.37ManoftheSea"It is the duty of every citizen to go into the tanks."  - Chairman Sheng-ji Yang
13:16.54lkclwater tanks?
13:16.59ManoftheSearecycling tanks.
13:17.02lkclahhhh
13:17.06lkclgloop, gloop
13:17.07ManoftheSeaTo become soylent green
13:17.18ManoftheSeafrom the game Alpha Centauri
13:18.06lkclso anyway, they asked for help from us, because they can't easily make "internal" decisions, and their whole R&D system and product development depts is completely paralysed
13:18.51ManoftheSeayou know... this should go on the wiki.
13:18.54lkcland they operate on a huuuge scale - just absolutely amazing numbers, like a *million* units per week
13:19.00lkclManoftheSea: not yet
13:19.02ManoftheSeaok.
13:19.11ManoftheSeaI was kidding with you.
13:19.14ManoftheSeaMr. Wiki
13:19.15lkclnot until we've got samples and product  etc
13:19.20lkclyeah all right ha ha
13:20.23RITRedbeardSo do they make 10-14" LCD panels that are 24-pin RGB/TTL?
13:20.43lkclso they have huge internal sales (in the PRC) but it's "funny money", supplying govt depts and schools etc.  so the actual cost of any product is ten percent MORE than the retail cost of an equivalent product in Europe!!
13:20.47ManoftheSeaYou mean to connect EOMA to screen, RITRedbeard ?
13:20.49lkclwhich is insane!
13:21.11ManoftheSealkcl, but it's internal spending.
13:21.15lkclRITRedbeard: the company we're talking to makes LG's glass panels.  like.... *all* of LG's glass panels
13:21.21ManoftheSeaWhich means everyone suffers to uplift the production.
13:21.45RITRedbeardSure, EOMA and just in general.
13:21.46ManoftheSeawhere, here in the US, we'll sell the future to make a buck today
13:22.04lkclManoftheSea: precisely.  which is why they have completely failed to export any of their "internal" products.
13:22.36ManoftheSeaRITRedbeard: I think the expectation is that you'd get an RGB/TTL to LVDS chip to match your screen
13:22.50lkclsoooo, what we're doing is helping them to revitalise the product lines, redesign them based around much lower-cost, easier-to-adapt concepts (EOMA)
13:22.53ManoftheSeain fact, I believe there's a reference part for it as part of EOMA
13:23.44lkclRITRedbeard: ManoftheSea is correct.  24-pin RGB/TTL was picked because it's the lowest common denominator.  you can't specify LVDS because you might need dual-channel, single-channel or possibly even triple-channel LVDS for the big screens
13:24.33lkcland then you'd have to put the price up (to massively uncompetitive levels) in order to down-convert for an I/O Board which has, say... a 320x240 $2 LCD!
13:25.07lkclbut if it's 24-pin RGB/TTL you can connect that directly to a 320x240 18-pin RGB/TTL panel
13:25.39lkcl... or you can put in a single-channel LVDS IC on the I/O Board and connect it to a 1024x600 or 1280x768 etc. etc.
13:25.42lkcletc. etc.
13:26.57lkclso, anyway, coming back to your original point, ManoftheSea: it's not the PRC that's "making" this mandatory for products, but they are so stuck that they're happy to consider EOMA as a solution
13:27.44lkclfricking ironic, though.  it wasn't until my associates went over there, and a friend tagged along (who works with the factory that will be making the PCBs) that they went "ohhh we get iiiit!"
13:27.50lkclshakes head
13:28.02lkcltwooooo yeaarrrs we've been explaining EOMA to them!
13:28.49lkclthe breakthrough was when they said, "huh.  we make LCD TV products.  hmmm... these little CPU cards - we could use them to upgrade the TV, couldn't we?"
13:28.55ManoftheSeawell, my little jokey-joke turned into a lot of you explaining stuff.
13:29.00lkcland it was like, "yesssss" - haaaaallelujah moment
13:29.02lkclyes.
13:29.25ManoftheSeaalso, upgradeable tvs are better than TVs that don't upgrade.
13:29.41ManoftheSeaBecause... 2 years later, I'll have to buy a new box for said "multi-capable" tv
13:30.13lkcli've kept quiet about this stuff for some time
13:30.15lkclwell... duh!
13:30.49lkclif you're going to invest in a 42in TV what the bloody hell i mean... do these companies _really_ think that people are going to just... throw it away in 2 years??
13:31.18*** join/#arm-netbook nibb (~jyuyu@41.202.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
13:31.47ManoftheSeayeah, this isn't the electronics district of Japan
13:31.49lkclalternatively... they could sell people on the "minor items" such as a ISDB-T (DVB2) capable CPU Card upgrade
13:32.16lkcli can't believe people in japan upgrade their washing machines every 6 months just because there's a new model available
13:33.28ManoftheSeayeah, someone failed a cost benefit analysis
13:33.38ManoftheSeaOr, is using some ridiculous grounds for it.
13:33.38RITRedbeardso old panel with 40 pins is LVDS? I'm interested in recycling old panels and reducing electronic wate
13:33.45lkclanyway - luckily, we have a new engineering team.  who, again, believe in the EOMA project enough to join in *without* any up-front costs
13:34.50lkclRITRedbeard: 40 pins sounds like it's a dual-channel LVDS.  there's 10 pins per LVDS channel.  really, it's too hard to tell: you simply can't guess.  you *have* to get the datasheet
13:35.16RITRedbeardactually I'm looking at pictures of the connectors, I've since put it back together hmmm
13:35.20lkclyou can't even get a different revision number of the exact same model panel, because they change the spec over the course of its revisions
13:35.54ManoftheSeaI want to put an EOMA in my car.
13:35.57lkclRITRedbeard: get the make and model number _and_ revision number - it's the only way.  AT070TN92 v0.1 for example, which is a 7in 800x480 LCD
13:36.05ManoftheSeaRight in the DoubleDin in the dash.
13:36.23lkclManoftheSea: me too!  with satnav etc.
13:36.39ManoftheSeaPut a bluetooth GPS on the roof, maybe run some USB cables for 802.11 receivers...
13:36.52lkclactually, i want it to be the embedded controller :)
13:36.53ManoftheSeaConstantly running netstumbler.
13:37.01ManoftheSeaoh, ick.  no.
13:37.05lkclha ha
13:37.09ManoftheSeaconnected to, sure.  CAN
13:37.18lkclok ok.  yeah you're right.
13:37.24ManoftheSeawell, maybe that really nice car your build.
13:37.34*** join/#arm-netbook L84Supper (~ly@unaffiliated/l84supper)
13:37.36lkclyes, that's the one.  displaying the speed and all that.
13:37.37ManoftheSeathe half-ton one, that gets 80 to the gallon
13:37.43ManoftheSeawith the turbine engine.
13:37.56ManoftheSeaI read like... everything you wrote on that.  It sounded so awesome.
13:38.08ManoftheSeaAnd then I realized I live in the city in the USA.
13:38.21lkcl350kg.  with an ultra-efficient 2-stroke ported OPOC diesel engine.
13:38.31lkcland not 80 to the gallon, *180* to the gallon.
13:38.37ManoftheSeaah, sure.
13:38.54lkclalthough if i actually get that OPOC diesel engine, it'll be 250 to 300.
13:38.56ManoftheSeaI also forgot a bunch about it.
13:39.49lkclactually the prototype's going to end up more like 140 to 150mpg, simply because of all the bits of suspension that are in the way, where there should be airgaps
13:40.16RITRedbeardI used to have it, bah
13:40.27lkcldisadvantage of using a cheap 750kg donor car, oh well
13:40.32ManoftheSeaslash-topic arm-carbook
13:40.40lkclMaDMaLKaV: ha ha
13:40.46lkclManoftheSea: ha ha
13:41.11lkcldoh - auto-completion on xchat gave me the wrong person there
13:41.22ManoftheSeabut yes, running kismet and metasploit from my car, with a 3G connection in...
13:41.36ManoftheSeaXploitman, to the Xploitmobile!
13:41.49ManoftheSeaand then I wouldn't use it... because I don't do that today.
13:41.54lkcl:)
13:42.09ManoftheSeaI have a laptop and a car.  Why would having a cartop change it?
13:42.15lkclno you don't - but tomorrow's another day :)
13:42.33ManoftheSeaalso, it's illegal and immoral.
13:42.44ManoftheSeaand the immoral is the more important one.
13:43.27lkclpersonal data and music etc. on the CPU card - take it with you.  put it in the car, it reconfigures to drive you to work, and doesn't answer phone calls unless the vehicle's stationary
13:43.31lkcletc. etc.
13:43.42ManoftheSeaoh?  stationary?
13:43.48lkclstationery?
13:43.56lkclused to be able to spell....
13:43.58ManoftheSeaWhy wouldn't you route calls to the speaker system, in hands-free mode?
13:44.07ManoftheSeano, I think you had it right...
13:44.16ManoftheSeaI'm questioning the idea, not the spelling
13:44.32lkclbecause .... i thought that was still illegal in many countries (even hands-free)
13:44.39lkclmaybe it isn't.  so, yeah!
13:44.41ManoftheSeaPut it in the car, have it BE the HFP to the phone in your pocket
13:44.53ManoftheSeamaybe in the UK it is.
13:45.04ManoftheSeaI think it's legal in most parts of the USA
13:45.05lkclit's "handling a phone" that's a £1000 fine
13:45.24*** join/#arm-netbook nibb (~jyuyu@41.202.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
13:45.29lkclok.  i gotta get something to eat.
13:45.38ManoftheSeaso yeah, playing music, call comes in, it acts as the headset, you take the call on the speakers in your car
13:45.41ManoftheSeabye luke
13:46.06ManoftheSeaand then share your location from the GPS.
13:46.24MaDMaLKaVhands free are totally legal here and, as far as I know, in all the european union
13:48.11ManoftheSeaso yeah, carputer that takes your cals.
13:48.15ManoftheSeacalls.
13:48.26ManoftheSeaif'n you're not just making SIP calls over LTE
13:48.42ManoftheSea"VOLTE", or some home-brew work-alike
13:49.43ManoftheSeaaway!
14:07.18RITRedbeardhmm
14:07.29mikey_wAre there sd card images for booting ICS for the mele a1000?
14:07.48mikey_wI don't want to flash the nand.
14:11.52Triffid_Huntermikey_w: I think http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/hacking_the_mele_a1000/mele_ubuntu_image/ is what you're after. do note I've only just gotten into this myself, haven't ordered my mele yet
14:12.05Triffid_Hunteroh wait you want android, that's an ubuntu image
14:12.08Triffid_Hunternvm
14:12.32Triffid_Huntermikey_w: see http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/hacking_the_mele_a1000/android/
14:16.32mikey_wThanks
14:23.15mikey_wNothing about a bootable sd card image for ICS.  Sigh.
14:32.09*** join/#arm-netbook eebrah (~Ibrahim_K@212.49.88.107)
14:32.48mnemocmikey_w: it's waiting for you to write it ;-)
14:33.35mikey_wlol
14:33.57mikey_wThat's what I get for bitching.
14:35.37CIA-121rhombus-tech: Rui master * r7f16b605ea54 /allwinner_a10/orders/ruiluis.mdwn:
14:44.58*** join/#arm-netbook nibb (~jyuyu@41.202.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
15:15.09CIA-121rhombus-tech: Jean-Luc_Aufranc master * r8884efe61ccc /allwinner_a10.mdwn:
15:16.00*** join/#arm-netbook nibb (~jyuyu@41.202.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
15:17.57*** join/#arm-netbook J1nx (~IceChat77@bba147424.alshamil.net.ae)
15:24.23CIA-121rhombus-tech: Jean-Luc_Aufranc master * rd630b7ac45c2 /allwinner_a10/hacking_the_mele_a1000/Building_hardware_packs___40__script.bin__44___u-boot_and_kernel__41___and_using_them_to_generate_a_bootable_SD_card_for_A10_devices.mdwn:
15:24.44mnemocnice filename...
15:25.04rzklol
15:25.18J1nxsays it all :D
15:25.25technologov_how-to upgrade RAM on such a device ?
15:25.37technologov_upgrade whole EOMA CPU card ?
15:25.45mnemoctechnologov_: yes
15:25.57technologov_is reading...
15:26.25mnemoctechnologov_: the card includes the SoC, nand and ram
15:26.30technologov_about I/O board: I would really like something similar to the VIA APC-sized NEO-ITX board for ARM PC
15:26.37J1nxmnemoc: how is it going with 3.3? Still strugling for help?
15:26.58mnemocJ1nx: it boots... help always welcomed
15:27.03technologov_where will wifi chip sit ? or 3G chip ?
15:27.10technologov_on I/O board or on CPU card ?
15:27.13mnemoctechnologov_: io board
15:27.24J1nxOne more week and then I fly back home (finally)
15:28.08J1nxthen I can pick up the Mele again
15:28.11mnemocJ1nx: tired of watching black ghosts walking around?
15:28.24J1nxI call them ninja's
15:28.28mnemoc:D
15:28.57technologov_would it be possible to upgrade to USB 3.0 spec ?
15:29.09J1nxBoot you got it to boot, that is already something
15:29.18technologov_(in future)
15:29.22J1nxwhat is on the storyboard to sort out next?
15:29.37mnemoctechnologov_: very likely
15:30.03mnemocJ1nx: testing a real desktop upon it would be nice :)
15:30.09J1nxtechnologov_: One of the benefits of EOMA is easy low cost upgrades
15:30.15technologov_GPIO can be programmed for, say, RS232 serial mode ?
15:30.44mnemocJ1nx: usb gadget needs to be rethought and fixed, and once 3.3 is in good shape we jump to 3.4
15:30.50technologov_J1nx, but RAM is not upgradeble, so there will be 1 GB, 2 GB, 4 GB models...
15:30.52J1nxmnemoc: Who needs a desktop ;)
15:31.00technologov_(maybe it's good, I dunno)
15:31.09mnemocJ1nx: it's the only way to know of the drivers work
15:31.38J1nxmnemoc: You got FBcon?
15:32.19J1nxtechnologov_: EOMA should be considered a CPU/RAM external card for you device (tablet, monitor, car, etc)
15:32.21mnemocJ1nx: nope, i gave up on that one for now. we need to refactor/reimplement the whole disp driver
15:32.46J1nxtechnologov_: So yes you have to choose which mem version you slide in
15:33.05mnemocJ1nx: I'm more interested in unifying sunxi drivers first
15:33.13J1nxtechnologov_: But when after 6 months a better one comes out, cou can easily remove it and slide the better one in, etc.
15:33.25mnemocJ1nx: instead of having tons of duplicated code in sun[345]-foo drivers
15:33.47mnemocand you'll find a good use for the old card too
15:33.50J1nxmnemoc: Indeed I saw most of your commits were about unifying the sunxi stuff
15:34.07mnemocbuy a new module, upgrade devices on cascade
15:34.38mnemocJ1nx: it's vital to reduce the amount of duplicated code to be able to maintain this beast
15:35.26J1nxmnemoc: I agree, specially now it appears to be all the same hardware (most of it)
15:36.47J1nxWhat about the license headers? Is Tom done, or is he still digging throught all the files?
15:37.43mnemocJ1nx: most of the critical parts are GPLed... except the nand driver
15:38.01mnemocJ1nx: but according to Top it's just a matter of spare time
15:38.14mnemocthe authorization has been given
15:38.26J1nxHmm, but that was crap anyway. Maybe someone comes by to write a better one
15:38.43mnemocyes, needs to be rewritten using mtd
15:38.51J1nxindeed
15:40.12J1nxCan't the XDA guys (turl and Madmalkav) do it?
15:40.29J1nxThe XDA guys always seems very bright
15:41.36mnemocMaDMaLKaV: seems to have lost interested in the A10, and Turl is focused in android integration..... no one cares about the kernel :<
15:41.44mnemocs/://
15:42.17specingHow come?
15:43.39J1nxIt is always the same; As soon there is something to play with the move along to the next step ;)
15:44.10J1nxI do the same; I am always good in starting, but not so got in finishing it :D
15:44.31mnemoc:)
15:45.22J1nxYou won't have that crap if the are assimilated by the borgs
15:45.44mnemocdoesn't want to be assimilated
15:46.03J1nxresitant is futile
15:46.52steevi dunno, i still work on the mx51, and it's not exactly new ;)
15:47.15steevdoing an aftermarket replacement of the 1024x600 screen to a 1280x720 screen has helped in making it more usable to me
15:48.09mnemocsteev: with a 1280x720 screen i wouldn't have hesitated to buy one
15:48.12J1nxYeah, as long as we have fun it is all fine.
15:48.26J1nxand 1280x720 sound very good!
15:48.28steevmnemoc: buy one and replace  it yourself :P
15:48.51steevthat's what i did
15:49.11mnemocsteev: and then trash the original panel new? not very eco-friendly
15:49.39steevmnemoc: eh? that just means you have an awesome 1024x600 panel around for a fun side project
15:50.24mnemocmy fun projects are of software, not of hardware.
15:50.36steevi.e. if i ever get some free time, i can adapt it to work with my mx53 quick start board
15:52.16mnemoc:)
15:52.36steevi was finally able to find the bit i was missing to create my dtb
15:52.46steev(arch/arm/mach-imx/Makefile.boot)
15:53.27steevbut i came in to the office and am playing around with the mx53 and rose (my smartbook
15:53.30mnemocisn't that one part of the template?
15:53.55steevmnemoc: you create the dts file, which goes into arch/arm/boot/dts/
15:54.22steevand then when you enable support in the kernel, you should be able to do something like make ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=armv7a-hardfloat-linux-gnueabi- dtbs
15:54.30steevand it generates the dtb files for you
15:54.35mnemocsexy
15:55.20steevso i have the dtb and stuff, i just have to test it, which i'll do when i get home... that, or i'll go to sleep
15:57.27steevof course, it will only work for the smarttop, the smartbook won't have a video driver yet, and aside from the 53 or so smartbooks we gave to canonical/linaro, very few people have debug boards, so useless for the smartbook
15:57.32steev63*
15:57.58steevwhich annoys me to no end because i know those guys aren't using them (for the most part)
15:58.17mnemoc:(
15:58.40steevi considered emailing them and asking for some back if they weren't using it
15:59.30specing63?!?!
15:59.32mnemocsome probably live in CA so you can go and "reclaim" it
15:59.48specingHow much% is that of your total production?
16:00.18mnemoc*cough*
16:00.22steevspecing: uh, very little
16:00.44specingHow much did you make? 10000?
16:00.46steevwe probably give away ~500 to projects
16:00.52specing100000?
16:01.28steevi'm not sure, i wasn't here til after the smartbook was already done being producted.  our last run that we did was ~5k, we're down to sub 20
16:01.34mnemochope you didn't drop them from airplanes like olpc :|
16:01.41steevhah
16:01.45steevnaw
16:01.55specingHah
16:01.58steevand i'm in TX, so going to CA to go and reclaim wouldn't work
16:02.15mnemocsteev: no linaro fellows in austin?
16:02.31steevdunno, i'm not in austin :)
16:02.34mnemoc:)
16:02.35steevi'm in san antonio
16:02.42mnemoc(I thought genesi was based in CA)
16:04.27steevnope :)
16:04.27mnemocwill have to change the mental accent when reading what steev says
16:04.49steevmnemoc: i have a midwestern accent (that is, none at all, or i sound like a tv personality)
16:04.58steevi'm from Detroit
16:06.11mnemoc:)
16:06.39steevwhich is the second most dangerous city in america!
16:07.03steevhttp://realestate.yahoo.com/news/most-dangerous-cities-in-america.html
16:07.10steev#1 is also in Michigan :D
16:07.47mnemocuh
16:08.47steevit's really not that bad.  it gets a bad rep because people are all biased against it.  Detroit is awesome
16:09.45specing344 murders per 700000 people per year?!?!
16:10.58steevthat's a tiny fraction!
16:11.12mnemocamericans :-/
16:12.22steevmy moms used to get mad at me when i'd walk down the street to the gas station to buy smokes
16:12.30steevshe'd be all nooooo you're gonna get shot
16:12.46steevand i'm like wtf? i'm just walking 3 houses away
16:12.58steevftr, i never got shot
16:16.54toxicpsionmnemoc: github sunxi-tools is yours right?
16:16.58specingI bet you are proud of that!
16:18.09mnemoctoxicpsion: well.... I host the repo and added some of the code.... why?
16:18.28steevmnemoc: tat reminds me, i wanted to ask about the fel app i saw in there, what can be done with it?
16:19.10mnemocsteev: upload an spl and execute it
16:19.21steevhmm
16:19.31toxicpsionwondered if you could do a patch to fel.c for me... added some error messages... so you don't get :Sucesss after every perror();
16:19.33toxicpsionhttp://pastebin.com/Gh01P8jz
16:20.28mnemoctoxicpsion: can you paste a git commit? with authoriship and comment
16:20.41mnemocsteev: basically to boot from usb
16:21.03toxicpsioni'll try... not really @ my desk right now... it's only a 2 line addition and 3x1 liners
16:21.33mnemoctoxicpsion: then give me: name, email, comment
16:22.10toxicpsiontoxicpsion, toxicpsion@gmail.com, Add useful error messages to perror();
16:22.24toxicpsionor RN?
16:22.34toxicpsionDave Gateman.
16:22.42mnemocbetter :)
16:22.47ManoftheSeaoh hey, building a computep-cluster with pandaboards.
16:22.55ManoftheSeaToo bad they didn't have EOMA cards.
16:22.59ManoftheSeaon slashdot
16:25.24steevcomputep?
16:25.44steevoh the phoronix bit
16:25.45steevmeh
16:26.01mnemoctoxicpsion: https://github.com/amery/sunxi-tools/commit/e85fecf8066ae72f350e03b6260a2eeaf8246154   thanks :)
16:26.51toxicpsionno... thank you. :)
16:27.10mnemocsteev: unfortunatelly hno expects to get rid of boot1 so even if we can talk to fel people won't be able to easily get there
16:27.37steevhm? how does he expect to get rid of it?
16:28.05mnemocsteev: it seems his plan is to use uboot up there
16:28.14steevah
16:28.16steevhm
16:28.26mnemocas happens when booting from SD
16:28.29ManoftheSeasteev: you claim no accent?  Is it midwest, or great lakes?
16:28.57steevManoftheSea: Michigan, so Great Lakes
16:29.07ManoftheSeabrofist.
16:29.13steevwell technically GL is still considered midwest
16:29.22ManoftheSeais from Southgate
16:29.27steevnice
16:29.53ManoftheSeait's only "considered midwest" if you come from far from the midwest.
16:30.30steevgah
16:30.42steevwent to respond and ended up pausing my music
16:30.45hnoget where?
16:30.46steevosx is annoying as hell
16:30.57steevWHEN I COMMAND TAB FRIGGIN SWITCH APPS
16:31.18hnou-boot spl on nand? Yes.
16:31.27mnemocQuarx: ping
16:31.36Quarxmnemoc: pong
16:32.13mnemocQuarx: out/target/common/obj/APPS/framework-res_intermediates/src/com/android/internal/R.java:19381: warning: unmappable character for encoding ASCII to a device???s native theme with all device customizations intact.</p>   :(
16:32.36hnomnemoc, what do boot1/nand have to do with fel?
16:33.00Quarxmnemoc: only warn.. it is normal for android
16:33.06mnemochno: it's the way for normal people to get into fel
16:33.26hnoI would think the boot recovery button is quite normal as well.
16:33.44hnoalmost all tablets have it. MK802 have it.
16:33.46mnemocI have 3 a10 tablets, none has a recovery button
16:33.53toxicpsion... for those of us that have one :(
16:34.00*** join/#arm-netbook nibb (~jyuyu@41.202.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
16:34.13hnomnemoc, have you looked closely? Often it shares hole with the mic.
16:34.24mnemoc.oO
16:35.04specingMine has one!
16:35.14steevmnemoc: mine has one, really tiny, paperclip style
16:35.18steevat least, the lyf1
16:35.25steevi haven't looked at the mid970
16:35.33steevbut i'm pretty sure i remember seeing one
16:35.34hnoAll the pictures I have looked at of various A10 tablet boards have one.
16:35.44mnemocfears to ruin the mic by trying
16:35.48steevi'm too afraid to upgrade the mid970 anyway
16:36.01steevcurrently TED talks work, as does netflix and google chrome
16:36.02hnomnemoc, what tablets do you have?
16:36.06steevwhich are the 3 apps i care about
16:36.36*** join/#arm-netbook gimli (~gimli@xbmc/staff/gimli)
16:37.03mnemochno: lyf1, onda vi10 elite, ico d90w
16:37.19mnemochno: but they all have mic holes.... if you say it's there, I believe it
16:38.00hnoThe onda certainly have it. And lyf1. Not familiar for ico d90w.
16:38.04steevmnemoc: on the lyf1, it's a tiny paperclip hole
16:38.21steevif i was at home i'd take a pic and show you
16:38.34mnemocI'll have to wait until my women return home. it's their tablets...
16:38.42steevQuarx: btw, great job on the latest ROM, really smooth
16:39.06steevchrome still doesn't work, but i have no idea what's missing and the chrome peeps won't give up the infos
16:39.07toxicpsionGemei G2 has reset, but fel is unpopulated on PCB, and missing supporting Resistors.
16:39.36Quarxsteev: :) i want fix flash problem... but need some close sources
16:39.51rzkhttps://dl.dropbox.com/u/1096320/foto/IMG_0747.JPG
16:39.54steevQuarx: meh, flash sucks!
16:40.04Quarxsteev: agree, but users..
16:40.19steevQuarx: channel your inner steve jobs
16:40.21rzklyf1 side from bottom of pcb
16:40.52steevman these old macbook pros get hot (the 32bit version)
16:41.16Quarxsteev: ))) and need fix display driver for aurora
16:41.32mnemoc*cough*
16:42.29steevhmm, what's wrong with aurora?
16:42.44mnemochis display doesn't wake up
16:42.48steevah
16:42.53steevoh right
16:42.56steevi saw that message
16:43.52mnemochno: found the onda, and you are right, it has a reset hole... it was covered by the case
16:45.53mnemocwhat's the mechanics to "choose" between the "forced reboot" reset, and a "forced reboot into fel"?
16:51.31mnemocthe mic hole doesn't seem to have a button inside
16:56.48Quarxmnemoc: http://epsy.ath.cx:888/paste/?542 look.. now display works without comment... i will update ticket
16:57.19*** join/#arm-netbook fjfalcon (~fjfalcon@fjfalcon.ru)
16:57.30*** join/#arm-netbook penguin42 (~dg@tu006.demon.co.uk)
16:58.59mnemocQuarx: but you are ignoring the b_en arg
16:59.18Quarxmnemoc: yea, i think problem in memcpy
16:59.41Quarxmnemoc: memcpy is not good to use in android
17:00.04rzkmnemoc: my lyf1 doesnt have reset button hole either, only hole for uboot button (picture above). reset button is on front side of pcb and it is covered with backplate of casing.
17:00.08ManoftheSeathat pandaboard compute cluster would be interesting with EOMA cards.  Particularly if the EOMA is ~$50.
17:00.30mnemocrzk: so you have to take the tablet apart?
17:00.33ManoftheSeathey did 6x $180 pandaboard.  Comparison would need 12x $50 EOMA, right?
17:00.35rzkye[
17:00.39ManoftheSea12 cores
17:00.44rzks/ye[/yep/
17:01.36mnemocrzk: not good at all
17:01.53mnemocQuarx: the kernel uses it's own memcpy(), it's not from bionic
17:02.42rzkyeah, I believe they did fel button hole for flashing or recovery
17:02.56rzkwithout taking tablet apart
17:06.11mnemocQuarx: can you test getting b_en back?
17:06.17Quarxmnemoc: yes
17:07.40mnemocQuarx: I'm more inclined to believe gdisp.screen[sel].lcd_cfg.lcd_power got corrupted than memcpy() failing to copy
17:08.13*** join/#arm-netbook aaribaud (~aaribaud@82.235.144.2)
17:09.41aaribaudhi all. Anyone here could tell me if Allwinner  A10 in mele A1000/2000 supports hot-plugging of SATA disks?
17:10.02penguin42ManoftheSea: Although the Panda's CPUs are A9 cores and they have two each
17:10.30penguin42ManoftheSea: So maybe around 3-4 times faster than an A10 card; although the A10 may win due to having the SATA and ether
17:10.44ManoftheSeasata and ether?
17:11.06ManoftheSeaThe rig they had was NFS, the pandaboards had ethernet
17:11.22penguin42ManoftheSea: Yeh, the A10 on the EOMA is on chip; the Panda doesn't have any fast storage (it has SD and USB), and the Panda's ether goes via USB-2 (onboard)
17:11.32mnemocQuarx: to try to `dd` out/target/product/a10/*.img manually into the nand, where do I set the sizes?
17:11.37ManoftheSeaoh.  I didn't realize it was usb ethernet
17:11.44penguin42ManoftheSea: Yeh it's a bit odd
17:11.58penguin42ManoftheSea: Still, in principal it should get you the 100mbps
17:12.16ManoftheSeaso, the A10 EOMA would be less i/o bound?  In a compute cluster, is that used much?
17:12.29penguin42ManoftheSea: That depends what you're doing
17:12.34ManoftheSeaI suppose.
17:12.50ManoftheSeahmm.  The conclusion (Ivy Bridge is awesome) is interesting.
17:12.50penguin42ManoftheSea: It's not like either board has a lot of RAM, so say on a build you can easily be IO limited
17:12.52steevmnemoc: you don't, normally, although the sizes should be listed in the BoardConfig (iirc)
17:13.56mnemocsteev: ehm... so I just `dd` the .img files to the corresponding nandx and pray?
17:14.14steevmnemoc: that has *never* worked for me
17:14.20steevyou could rsync it over :P
17:14.21mnemoc:(
17:14.31penguin42what no one said on the i.MX6 argument on the list is what spec the MX6 involved had in terms of IO, and the website is somehwat non-commital on that
17:14.32steevsystem.img is just out/tar/pro/a10/system
17:14.55steevpenguin42: how do you mean?
17:15.11mnemocsteev: fair enough
17:15.58mnemocsteev: I'll try to rsync Quarx's android into my mele then
17:15.59penguin42steev: The website for the MX6 says something like 'and some may have PCI-e, gige, sata, and other IO' - but someone on the list was quoting prices for single core MX6 which were not bad, but I don't think they said whether that particular MX6 had any particular subset of IO
17:16.35steevwell let's looksie
17:17.45mikey_wWhat's the best sd image to run on the mele A1000?  By best I mean all periphials working, wifi, ethernet, sata etc.
17:18.05steevpenguin42: based on the docs i have, it's the same
17:18.10*** join/#arm-netbook nibb (~jyuyu@41.202.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
17:18.25penguin42steev: same as what?
17:18.31mnemocmikey_w: use cnxsoft script and build your own
17:18.46mikey_wurl?
17:19.33mnemocmikey_w: http://www.cnx-software.com/2012/06/13/hardware-packs-for-allwinner-a10-devices-and-easier-method-to-create-a-bootable-ubuntu-12-04-sd-card/
17:19.38steevpenguin42: there is a lot in the docs, but they are covered by nda.  all i can really say is that the 4 different versions share quite a few commonalities wrt nand/nor/mmc/sd/sdio
17:20.36penguin42steev: It was more in terms of non-tablet/phone IO that I was interested - in the way that the A10 has a lot of desktop type IO
17:22.07steevpenguin42: well, the docs aren't finalized, but i *think* the dualite and solo don't have sata
17:22.24penguin42steev: Nod, that's a bit of a kicker compared to the A10
17:22.43steevpenguin42: the mx53 is the comparable chip to the a10, not the mx6
17:23.10penguin42steev: But doesn't offer any advantages over it
17:23.20mnemocdocumentation :)
17:23.29penguin42true
17:23.42steevmnemoc: most people don't care about the docs, someone else will write the drivers :P
17:23.58mnemoc:)
17:24.29penguin42steev: Though I still don't see SATA listed on the mx53 page
17:24.55steevit's there
17:25.11penguin42oh yes, I see it - it says ATA not sata
17:26.15steevhttp://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=IMX53QSB <connectivity>
17:26.16penguin42wow, the mx535 are actually listed on digikey - 13.743 for one off
17:26.26steevyar
17:26.37steevmx53 is old news, fsl is working on the mx6 hardcore now
17:27.01steevi should get my mx6 board in about a month, and i can't wait
17:27.11penguin42steev: Yeh but it's not out, and as you say the docs are NDA so it's not yet interesting
17:27.27penguin42steev: http://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/MCIMX535DVV1CR2/MCIMX535DVV1CR2-ND/2674258    although that doesn't list ATA
17:27.29steevpenguin42: i've signed the NDA, it's interesting to me
17:27.43mnemocpenguin42: accept it, it has sata
17:27.51steevi don't care if it doesn't list it on the interwebs.  i've got a qsb sitting right next to me using sata
17:28.09penguin42steev: I was more thinking that there maybe a million varients, som ethat do and some that don't
17:28.11steevit's more up to your board design
17:28.22steevthat's why you design it
17:28.27steevwe have a design that uses nand, not sata
17:28.45penguin42I'm not talking about the board, I'm talking on the chip
17:28.46steevno reason NOT to put sata on there, just that the customer requested it not be on there
17:29.48penguin42steev: Sorry? Can you explain - we're talking about a Soc - where has the customer come into this?
17:30.07steevpenguin42: i work for a company that does custom soc designs
17:30.38penguin42steev: I was just trying to understand if that particular MX53 on digikey had ata on it
17:30.53mnemocQuarx: around?
17:32.32steevpenguin42: if you're looking at JUST the chip, yes, it has pins for it, but you still  need to put the sata port on your board.  it's not like you can just buy the processor and drop it onto a motherboard (although i do wish we could reach that point some day)
17:32.52Quarxmnemoc: yes, i'll been away...  sizes set in BoardConfig.mk
17:33.30mnemocQuarx: question, is the generated boot.img safe? is recovery.img CWM?
17:34.03Quarxmnemoc: i use prebuilt boot.img
17:34.11penguin42steev: All I wanted to know whether it was on the chip; many of the chips are missing some useful IO and thus you end up with boards that have terribly slow ether/sata because they're missing from the actual chip; it's not a problem if the board has to have connectors/passives/etc
17:34.51mnemocQuarx: thanks
17:34.58Quarxmnemoc: my boot.img contain stock aurora kernel
17:35.32penguin42steev: It's a shame it's PATA not SATA (why would you put a PATA interface on?!)
17:35.41steevpenguin42: uh
17:35.44specingCompactFlash maybe?
17:35.45steevit's AHCI SATA
17:36.11steevPATA is the mx51
17:36.22penguin42steev: Ah OK, the docs are a bit of a mess in trying to figure that out
17:36.25mnemocQuarx: so even if I set TARGET_KERNEL_SOURCE it won't be used?
17:36.46steevif it was PATA still on the mx53, i'd be swearing up a storm at fsl
17:37.08Quarxmnemoc: will be,  if you remove TARGET_PREBUILT_KERNEL
17:37.28steevconsidering i attempted to get their pata driver (since it has dma support) from their ancient kernel to something newer, with absolutely no luck and over a month of talking to their "tech support"
17:37.40mnemocQuarx: thanks, removing that line now
17:38.03steevat which point they finally admitted they didn't do anything but build test it on newer kernels
17:38.13mnemocQuarx: obviusly I plan to use the kernel I work on ;-)
17:38.20steevin fact, it was 1 year ago
17:38.31steevbecause it was leading up to FTF
17:38.41steevand while at FTF i gave amanda an earful about their support
17:38.54steevamanda used to be in charge of the mx53 division)
17:39.05steevs/mx53/mx51/
17:39.37penguin42steev: I think tech support is universally bad - it's one of those rules of the universe
17:39.43mnemoc.oO(who is amanda?)o
17:40.03steevmnemoc: she used to (maybe still is?) work at fsl
17:40.35steevshe was the person i'd have to shoot an email off to, like hey amanda, heard there is a new flash binary, please to link
17:40.36penguin42steev: Which GPU is it?
17:40.43mnemocsomehow it sounded like you knew it from something else too
17:40.43Quarxmnemoc: if(gdisp.screen[sel].lcd_cfg.lcd_power_used)   is never satisfied
17:40.49steevpenguin42: the mx53 has te z430
17:41.04penguin42steev: Mali?
17:41.04steevz430/z160 (imageon/amd)
17:41.08mnemocQuarx: in aurora or in any device?
17:41.14Quarxmnemoc: aurora
17:41.20penguin42steev: ah, don't know much about those
17:41.31steevpenguin42: familiar with qualcomm snapdragons?
17:41.47steevthe adreno is a z180/z430
17:42.01steevsame deal, since qualcomm bought amd's mobile unit
17:42.09penguin42steev: Oh, were those the ones reverse eng by the guy at TI ?
17:42.17steevyah
17:42.29steevthe ones where i can't help cuz i have the sources
17:42.33penguin42nod
17:43.17specingthey *were* reverse engineered?
17:43.38specingMeaning there are GPL drivers available?
17:43.42*** join/#arm-netbook J1nx (~IceChat77@bba147424.alshamil.net.ae)
17:43.55steevnot sure what the status of it is currently
17:43.59penguin42specing: Not sure how far the drivers got
17:44.17steevi hang out in the channel, but there hasn't been anything committed to git in almost a month
17:44.40steevsadly, that work doesn't bleed over to the fsl 51/53
17:44.52steevthe userspaces are different
17:49.21Quarxmnemoc: or not.. anyway memcpy kill display..
17:51.16mnemocQuarx: please attach the diff of your LCD_POWER_EN() to the ticket. I'll debug that as soon as I get my A10 devices running your android (and my kernel)
17:52.09L84Supperouch, imx6 has slipped to Q1, 13?!
17:52.20mnemocL84Supper: for minor customers
17:52.34L84Supperheh, through distribution
17:52.41mnemocL84Supper: steev will get them in august
17:52.50L84Suppersame as TI
17:53.21L84Supperthe 6 month later story
17:54.23mnemoceh? is omap4 available via distributors now?
17:54.32L84Supperso no way to really make a BEOMA card with imx6 until Q1 of 13
17:54.40steevmnemoc: you mean omap5?
17:55.10mnemocnope, omap4. I was told normal people can't buy the chip of the panda
17:55.22steevoh, maybe they can't
17:55.28steevdoesn't really care about the omap line
17:55.38mnemocthat's "sightly" more than 6 months...
17:55.42L84Supper12 months ago TI said that the omap4 would be available through distis in 6 months
17:55.48J1nxgimli: You love to get the people on their toes, don't you :D
17:56.00J1nxLove it!
17:56.09penguin42digikey list the 3's but not the 4's
17:56.38mnemocthat's two generations behind for the general public...
17:56.48penguin42is OMAP5 out?
17:57.26L84Supperbut you're welcome to buy an overpriced clunky omap4 module
17:59.34mnemoci remember some omap5 demos shown in.... january?
17:59.45gimliJ1nx: a bit. couldn't resist :D
18:00.35penguin42mnemoc: Yeh but there's a big difference between a demo and being able to get you're flippers on something
18:00.45gimliJ1nx: is that mean of me ?
18:00.57J1nxliked it. It keeps them interested.
18:01.17gimliit does, indeed
18:01.32J1nxonce in a while you have to poke the fire a bit to keep it going ;)
18:01.47gimlinods
18:01.54mnemocpenguin42: but still puts omap3 "two generations behind"
18:01.58gimliand just telling too much. only hints
18:02.15penguin42mnemoc: Yeh, although I only count a generation when it's buyable
18:02.23mnemoc:)
18:02.31J1nxDownside is that you will have to deal with this; Gimme gimme gimme people now :D
18:03.10gimlimy weapong : ignorance ;)
18:03.42mnemocwonders what J1nx and gimli are talking about
18:03.48J1nxOhh, when you have a lot of that and some to spare would love to take dome from you
18:03.50*** join/#arm-netbook antony (~Adium@2001:980:7456:1:7de1:e0d4:9de7:b5e7)
18:03.56L84Supperomap4430's are ~$13
18:04.12mnemocL84Supper: digikey?
18:04.14gimlihands over a pack "ignorance" to J1nx. have fun
18:04.19ManoftheSeagimme gimme gimme
18:04.36J1nxmnemoc: Gimli gave some "hints" over at the XBMC forums about the development of hardware video decoding
18:04.48ManoftheSeawoo, XBMC
18:04.52mnemoc:)
18:05.09gimlii heard xbmc exists :D
18:05.25J1nxSo now people are all sitting up straight like kids waiting for santa claus to climb down the chimney
18:05.30L84Supperhuh, we could make an omap4430 BEOMA card for not too much
18:05.51penguin42Don't think the 4430 has either ether or sata
18:06.05gimliJ1nx: they just do not realize it, that such a port needs time.
18:06.07L84Suppermnemoc, distis in China
18:06.26L84Supperhttp://www.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12843&contentId=53243
18:06.27mnemocL84Supper: then please mail luke about them
18:06.43J1nxIs it just you at the moment developing, or do you have some other hands as well
18:07.02L84Suppermnemoc, I'm not encouraging his antics anymore
18:07.03gimlime alone on the xbmc port
18:07.10J1nxbummer
18:07.24gimlii did also most of the RPi work
18:07.25J1nxthen yes it takes a lot of time
18:07.43J1nxhence even alone all the compile and testing will take weeks
18:08.06gimlithe compiling is fast. ( cross )
18:08.17gimlimy testbed is a buildroot environent
18:08.33gimlithis cycle is realy fast
18:09.22J1nxAh, thats cool! But still tweaking testing and tweaking again takes peobably a shit load of time. Ah well, as long as we have fun while doing it.
18:10.07gimlithats the point. fun ;)
18:10.30J1nxNext week when I am finally gone out of this freaking hot place, I will start altering the OpenELEC build scripts and have some fun with that part.
18:13.01J1nxGimli: Which base rootfs are you working with while testing the xbmc code?
18:13.26gimlione comming out of buildroot
18:13.50gimlienhaced with the libraries i need for xbmc
18:13.58J1nxOh crap, missed that one above
18:14.19gimlievrything else is too bloated
18:14.41J1nxDo you know what OpenELEC uses? I think busybox right?
18:14.56L84Supperhttp://www.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12863&contentId=103102  omap5 has SATA but no ethernet
18:15.29gimliopenelec using their own biuldsystem. it is quite similiar to buildroot
18:15.43mnemocQuarx: what do I write to the rootfs partition? (nandb)
18:15.47L84Supperhttp://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=phoronix_effimass_cluster&num=1
18:16.00L84Supper12-Core ARM Cluster Benchmarked Against Intel Atom, Ivy Bridge, AMD Fusion
18:16.41Quarxmnemoc: i'm not writed to it nothing.. only nandc (kernel+ramdisk)
18:17.19mnemocuhm
18:21.23mnemocall that android world makes very little sense :<
18:26.16ManoftheSeaL84Supper: I was talking about that earlier.
18:26.25ManoftheSeaan interesting result.
18:27.16J1nxGimli: Which kernel do you use at the moment?
18:33.35*** join/#arm-netbook toxicpsion (~toxicpsio@h216-45-98-91.dynamic.platinum.ca)
18:36.17gimliJ1nx: 3.0.31
18:40.37*** join/#arm-netbook J1nx (~IceChat77@gprs-emirnet20912.emirates.net.ae)
18:47.29mnemocQuarx: it seems the partitions of the mele are different than yours. here nandc is /system and nande is MISC... but your TARGET_RECOVERY_PRE_COMMAND writes to nandf, which is ext4 for me (recovery)
18:49.22Quarxmnemoc: yea..and i never used nandb...  nanda - bootloader, nandc - kernel,  nandg - recovery, nandd - system,  nandi - internal storage
18:50.13mnemocI have system in nandc and data in nandd
18:51.31mnemocQuarx: what's the suggested way to add this differences?
18:52.13Quarxmnemoc: you need edit init*.rc in boot.img.. change partition to yours
18:52.55mnemocthanks
18:54.19steevyeah i have to do taht here too, nandi points to their cramfs oem partition here
18:54.48steevbuilding stuff on a 32bit mac sucks
18:56.01mnemocQuarx: uhm.... no elegant way of supporting different a10-based devices in the same tree?
18:57.28Quarxmnemoc: each a10 device use different modules..
18:58.02mnemocand CM build system can't deal with that?
18:58.28steevmnemoc: that's why there is "common" and then everyone else should have their own that builds off it
18:58.48*** join/#arm-netbook gimli_ (~gimli@xbmc/staff/gimli)
18:58.50steevso you'd have device/allwinner/{common,aurora,a71,mid970} (as an example)
18:58.58mnemocic
18:59.28steevand then aurora, a710, mid970 would pull a common config from "common" and then their own needed tweaks on top inside....
18:59.45Quarxtur works on "common"
18:59.49Quarxturl*
19:01.04mnemocso I have to add Turl's device/allwinner/common, create my own device/allwinner/mele and forget about device/allwinner/a10. right?
19:01.16fjfalconmnemoc: yes
19:01.24mnemocthanks :)
19:01.26steevmnemoc: pretty much, or tweak a10 to match your stuff
19:01.43steevand then commit it to your own repo, and modify the default.xml (or add a local_manifest.xml)
19:01.52steevi tend to go the local_manifest route
19:02.08mnemocI'm already using local_manifest for the kernel
19:02.19steevthere you go
19:02.25steevoh thank god, they finally turned off the AC
19:03.50mnemocthanks for the hint. I feel I'm starting to understand this mess
19:04.11steevyeah it took me a bit to get used to when i was doing it for work
19:04.21steevdidn't really "get it" till i started playing with the a10
19:04.31steevi mean i understood it, but it didn't click til the a10
19:06.08Quarxmnemoc: goodfix touch modules works on latest tree kernel?
19:06.21*** join/#arm-netbook nibb (~jyuyu@41.202.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
19:06.47mnemocQuarx: no idea
19:06.55mnemocthey compile
19:08.52mnemocI'm only messing with android now because I want to install a free android 4.0 of the mele I bought for the tv on the living room... all my other android devices run the stock versions
19:09.44mnemocand I'm only doing it because almost everything is in chinese even after changing the language
19:10.21mnemocso I need others to test if the kernel actually works :<
19:37.27mnemocbtw, is there a dd-able image of the SD created by phoenixcard to reflash the mele?
19:44.35rzkwe probably need to reverse whats happening there, by logs phoenixcard writes mbr and partitions in order of config0000 from flashing image.
19:45.08rzkand phoenixcard doesnt work under virtualbox :(
19:46.08mnemocafter learning how to repartition the nand it shouldn't be hard to make an installer uSD
19:46.52mnemocthey probably use that g2d + directfb stuff there
19:47.13rzkmnemoc: I have a discussion with one interested in allwinner a10 kernels guy, hes asking, whats the status of GPL now? did allwinner dump as all and considered everything as leak or its GPL'd now?
19:47.54mnemocrzk: Tom has corrected most of the headers of the key files, but not everything yet
19:48.46mnemocrzk: but it's clear now that they accept them all as GPL, it's only the lack of spare time Tom has these days
19:49.55mnemocrzk: but it's also clear they don't plan to release anything directly
19:50.17rzkso they will sent critical updates ? I just remember you said that Tsvetan got only built-in.o for sun5i which is not good at all.
19:50.39rzkoh
19:50.55mnemocthey sent that DVD to Tsvetan *before* the GPL crisis
19:51.33mnemocI wouldn't expect any update from them
19:51.59rzkok, thanks for answer.
19:52.49mnemocrzk: otoh I serially doubt they have done any internal update either. they seem to be focused in 3.3 and in their next SoC
19:54.55mnemocprobably 3.4 these days as android's kernel-common doesn't show much interest in 3.3
19:58.55hnomnemoc, is dram_para section saved in script.bin? I guess it is.
19:58.58Quarxmnemoc: script0.bin allow to add many touchscreens?
19:59.28mnemochno: yes, it does
20:01.02mnemocQuarx: you can only add in script.bin what you really have. it needs to be fine tuned to each device
20:01.37mnemocQuarx: the kernel accepts it as given by God and incorrect data can cause damage
20:03.35Quarxmnemoc: oh, thanks
20:04.41mnemocQuarx: any installer shall start by backing up the current nanda/script.bin and restoring it after flashing the bootfs
20:04.56mnemocgeneric installer I mean
20:05.07hnoI wonder...  arch/arm/mach-sun4i/pm/standby/dram_init.c looks very promising.
20:05.52mnemochno: yes?
20:06.54*** join/#arm-netbook nibb (~jyuyu@41.202.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
20:06.55hnoFor initializing the DRAM in FEL.
20:07.42hnoIf dram_para is in script.bin then the input struct used in dram_init can be populated from script.bin.
20:07.46mnemochno: I thought you already had that in uboot
20:07.58mnemocyes
20:08.11hnoWhat is in u-boot is very very hardcoded.
20:09.37mnemochno: sample: http://pastie.org/pastes/4099485/text
20:10.05hnoI know. The dram_para struct is all except the base_addr.
20:10.21hnos/base_/dram_base/
20:10.28hno1-1
20:10.42mnemocnice
20:10.52hnoand pm code is GPL now.
20:11.05mnemoc:)
20:17.21mnemochno: this might help: https://github.com/amery/linux-allwinner/blob/wip/linux-3.3-sunxi/plat/arch/arm/plat-sunxi/include/plat/script.h
20:22.14*** join/#arm-netbook dfletcher (~fletch@108-196-222-251.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
20:22.14*** join/#arm-netbook dfletcher (~fletch@drupal.org/user/72475/view)
20:28.26rmhttp://www.aliexpress.com/product-gs/578381563--69-99-Only-MK802-Mini-PC-Mini-Android4-0-dongle-android-IPTV-google-tv-smart-wholesalers.html
20:28.27rmwow?
20:28.34rm$70 only
20:28.37rmand with 1GB of RAM
20:28.54rmand from the supplier that is very known
20:29.04mnemocthe hype is over, and some may have overstocked
20:30.06mnemoctomtop always confuses me.... they sell cheaper on ebay and aliexpress than on their own site
20:30.46hnomnemoc, looks good.
20:31.02hnomnemoc, do they provide same warranty on all channels?
20:31.22rmsigh I paid $74 for mine, with 512 MB (supposedly)
20:31.33mnemochno: please rephrase
20:32.25mnemochno: or... a topic :)
20:32.44mnemochno: is it about fel/dram or script.bin or tomtop?
20:33.04mnemocshould go for another cup of coffee
20:33.44mnemocthere are 12 girls screaming on the next room :|
20:35.20hnoa) script.bin. b) tomtop.
20:36.44rmalright, ordered
20:37.05*** join/#arm-netbook nibb (~jyuyu@41.202.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
20:37.10mnemochno: I bought from tomtop several times. they ship fast. but I've never needed to try their post-sale support or warranty. I don't think they make differences between channels on that
20:37.19mnemocrm: another???
20:37.34rmsure :P
20:37.40mnemocah, you said the other was for your father-in-law
20:37.45rmno
20:37.52rmbut I'll find what to do with them
20:37.54mnemocmeh, that was hp
20:38.01rmsadly that will involve replacing monitors at some locations
20:38.06rm(like my aunt's house)
20:38.10mnemoc:)
20:38.26technologov_what is the diff between Rikomagic MK802 and Zero Devices Z802 ?
20:38.31rmfor your father-in-law<- mistaking me for someone else probably, though
20:38.45mnemoctechnologov_: zero rebrands it
20:38.52mnemocrm: yes, hp_
20:39.04mnemoctwo letters nicknames
20:39.35rmrewardcoupon201206 <- $5 off coupon for Aliexpress
20:40.02technologov_What is the plan regarding A10 video drivers ? (For now I have sent email to Allwinner asking to develop A10 video drivers for Linux...)
20:40.12mnemocgoes for coffee now even if that implies stepping on some children "shuffling"
20:40.50mnemoctechnologov_: we have the drivers in .a .... hipboi was trying to provide an armhf version
20:41.37technologov_For hardware video decoder ?
20:43.05mnemoctechnologov_: yes, cedarx libraries
20:43.13technologov_ohh cool ^^
20:43.29*** join/#arm-netbook nibb (~jyuyu@41.202.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
20:43.35mnemocbut don't expect them to open source anything there
20:44.09technologov_ok, closed source is OK for me. (is running NVIDIA binary blobs anyway)
20:44.19technologov_is running NVIDIA binary blobs anyway
20:44.41technologov_But they must be good quality
20:45.13technologov_Will it work for all web browsers and all media player ? (Chromium, FFox, KDE Kaffeine, VLC, ...)
20:45.14Mazonwhy isn't EFF doing anything about this whole - chinese ignoring GPL issue?
20:45.40Mazonor FSF
20:45.44technologov_Mazon, cedarx is chinese library, not GPLed. It is closed source.
20:46.06Mazonaye, but how is it linked to the kernel ? . shim ?
20:46.11Mazonwhat about all the other drivers ?
20:46.14technologov_(I just dunno if libva is enough to target the full Linux infra-structure or not)
20:47.15MazonI certainly got the impression that they didn't give a flying fuck (excuse the language) about GPL
20:48.00rmwith this now being $70 and with 1GB of RAM, I don't see how the VIA APC expects to have any chances at anything
20:48.12rmwith their $49 price for the bare board
20:48.17rmoh but it has VGA, yes
20:48.56*** join/#arm-netbook ssvb (~ssvb@a88-114-220-213.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
20:48.56technologov_the $70 part (MK802) has one flaw: no audio.
20:49.01rmand that is pretty much it
20:49.03rmChipVIA 800MHz Processor
20:49.08technologov_and USB audio card cost >$100 here
20:49.13rmwut
20:49.23rm1) HDMI audio
20:49.40technologov_how am I supposed to connect HDMI audio to my $500 speakers ?
20:49.41rzki2s realtek crappy audio cost nothing
20:49.43*** join/#arm-netbook eFfeM (~frans@g235028.upc-g.chello.nl)
20:49.45rm2) while you are ordering your MK802 from china, why not throw in a crappy $3 USB audio card to your order
20:49.45technologov_They are analog only.
20:50.02rmor a pretty good $12 7.1 channel USB audio card
20:50.09rzklyf1 by the way has i2s something
20:51.01rmtechnologov_,  "connect HDMI audio to my $500 speakers" <- my entry-level Yamaha receiver has HDMI inputs for audio
20:51.15rm(it does pass-through for the video part)
20:51.50technologov_no idea. My speakers have no digital audio. 100% analog.
20:52.25technologov_I need bundle - MK802 + powered usb hub + audio card + ...
20:52.27ManoftheSeaso, get a digital->analog converter?
20:52.29rmhttp://www.aliexpress.com/product-gs/445198600-6-Channel-5-1-Optical-Audio-USB-Sound-Card-S-PDIF-freeshipping-dropshipping-wholesalers.html
20:52.32rm$12.69
20:52.41ManoftheSeaAlso, how can you have a 7.1 channel sound card, with only a headphone out?
20:53.36technologov_I have stereo.
20:54.18technologov_what about drivers for the USB audio ? Any chance to see it working on Linux ARM ?
20:55.15rm...what
20:55.30rz2kdrivers are independent about arch.
20:55.31penguin42technologov_: Most USB stuff just works on ARM
20:55.53penguin42rz2k: Can get a bit hairy on PCI stuff; the DMA mappings are touchier on ARM than x86
20:56.34rz2kyeah, but usb stuff works, I've connected cdc-ethernet and pl2303 to my ly-f1
20:56.49rz2kwhen my ly-f1 worked longer than 2 minutes :/
21:01.47CIA-121rhombus-tech: Veselin master * r47d63c20c159 /allwinner_a10/orders/wesli.mdwn:
21:03.41zoobabhi
21:07.23*** join/#arm-netbook nibb (~jyuyu@41.202.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
21:08.13technologov_If I get powered USB hub, will I need PSU for the MK802 ?
21:32.43technologov_OMG ! internation power standards... :(
21:32.51technologov_(or lack thereof...)
22:16.31CIA-121rhombus-tech: lkcl master * r5646286ebd19 /evaluated_cpus.mdwn: mention delay on imx6
22:16.42CIA-121rhombus-tech: lkcl master * rc6230ff0c50f /: Merge branch 'master' of ssh://git.hands.com/rhombus
22:17.50CIA-121rhombus-tech: lkcl master * r2820e7c3e262 /allwinner_a10/orders/ruiluis.mdwn: order processing cleanup
22:19.06lkclMazon: no, you're right - as a general rule they don't care.  however, very occasionally they "get it", but they are still woefully under-educated *even* if they actually want to comply, so end up making some whopper mistakes
22:19.33mnemocstill has hope
22:19.33lkclbut... we just have to work with those companies that are willing to be GPL compliant, and sod the ones that aren't
22:19.41lkclme too
22:24.28Mazonlkcl: indeed :) - it's just curious if you remember all the issues with different western product makes using busybox and getting approached by FSF
22:30.19mnemocMazon: litigating between countries is amazingly more difficult. litigating between countries with completely differnent cultures is simply impossible
22:31.05Mazonit just annoys me that they basically get a free pass because it's "cumbersome"
22:32.19mnemocnot even within the US or EU there is full GPL compliance
22:33.26MazonI know, but it's just not as rampant
23:06.24technologov_Why are chinese are no-name ?
23:07.26technologov_...I'm thinking about ordering an A10-based netbook, to full-fill our #arm-netbook name :)
23:11.04mnemocit's no more than a tablet with keyboard...
23:11.48DonkeyHoteiit's not a tablet unless it has a touchscreen
23:12.06mnemocthen it's less than a tablet with keyboard
23:12.25specingbetter buy a tablet with a keyboard instead
23:12.31DonkeyHoteiright
23:12.38specingUnless...
23:12.47specingDo the netbooks have serial ports?
23:12.55specingand or sata connectors?
23:13.15mnemocnot the A10-based ones that currently exist
23:13.26technologov_no SATA, not on tablets and not on netbooks
23:13.34technologov_only high-end laptops have eSATA
23:14.17mnemocit would have been trivial for them to add support for a sata disk and ethernet, but they didn't
23:14.52mnemocalso, there is no 1GB model and screen is crap
23:14.53technologov_they did ^^
23:14.59technologov_http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/571121097-10-1-TFT-LCD-1024-600-digital-screen-andriod-4-0-mini-laptop-Allwinner-A10-Cortex-wholesalers.html
23:15.08technologov_ARM netbook have Ethernet
23:15.35technologov_screen is same as ASUS eeePC netbook: 10", 1024x600
23:15.37mnemocah, cool.... that one has ethernet :)
23:16.30mnemocbut $170 for 1024x600 512MB? uhm
23:16.40Mazonchina mail > 90% mail arrives ?
23:17.11technologov_y, $170 is a bit pricey for the spec... will look a bit more
23:17.21mnemocI buy 5-10 things using china post every month for the last 4-5 years.... still haven't lost a package
23:17.21mikey_wMy china mail stuff always arrives eventually.
23:17.55Mazonkk
23:18.15penguin42...sounds better than the UK post
23:18.24Mazonjust thinking about getting an mk802'ish thingy ... but wasn't sure about their track record
23:18.40Mazon30 days still sounds ... impressively slow
23:18.57*** join/#arm-netbook devxdev (~devxdev@c-67-171-181-60.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
23:19.13penguin42Mazon: Wait for next ship, put on ship, wait as it pootles around the planet - 30 days not tha tbad
23:19.48mnemocone gets used to wait. God bless free shipping and no taxing for small packages :p
23:20.41mnemocmy average from china post office to my door in spain is 2 weeks
23:21.03Mazonno taxing ? - a 70$ mk802 => 115$ after shipping + tax + handling :/
23:22.02mnemochere they don't care about not-express small packages under 2kg
23:22.43technologov_actually the ARM netbook has one BIG advantage over Intel: weight
23:22.49mnemocunless you use a fancy courier who force the customs to tax you so they can charge their extra service fee
23:22.50*** join/#arm-netbook ZaEarl (~malmrose@119.224.25.149)
23:22.55technologov_I have ASUS eeePC around @ 1.27 kg
23:23.15technologov_the ARM part weights 636 grams according to spec, or one-half.
23:24.24mnemocA1Sheds (eh? left the channel?) has one of those
23:24.30Mazonwell, I'd just get through china mail - so not really a choice in that matter?
23:25.22mnemocsomeone posted a link to buy it for $70 with shipping included from tomtop's shop in aliexpress short ago
23:25.31lundmanneat
23:25.32mnemocrm did
23:26.03mnemocI still prefer a mele
23:26.38penguin42that crownho a10 board looks cute - no decent IO but I love the idea of an array of tablet mainboards
23:27.12mnemocpenguin42: mail Tom, he probably can get a bunch for you on his aliexpress shop
23:28.51mnemoche was asking for new possible products some days ago
23:34.01mnemoclkcl: I desperately want a ~12" eoma68 1280x720 laptop for xmas :'(
23:34.26penguin42mnemoc: I'd prefer one with the display off the new macbook - they're lovely
23:34.47penguin42had a 750 column vi in the Apple store today :-)
23:34.57mnemocI don't follow the releases of that nazi company, what's the res?
23:35.04penguin422880x something
23:35.07mnemoc:o
23:35.24penguin422880x1800
23:35.44penguin42mnemoc: I follow the products, don't buy them
23:35.50mnemoc:)
23:35.53penguin42but they're choice in displays is normally excellent
23:36.12technologov_There is retina display for desktop: IBM X21, 3840x2400 :)
23:36.16technologov_at 22"
23:36.20technologov_LCD
23:36.30technologov_beats Apple hand down :)
23:36.33penguin42yeh, they're not made new anymore - not for a longtime
23:37.05technologov_is looking for a Retina display, but up to $500 range they don't seem to exist
23:37.11penguin42yeh
23:39.14*** join/#arm-netbook nibb (~jyuyu@41.202.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
23:42.09ManoftheSeamnemoc: as for laptop:  Is anyone working on the "laptop" piece of EOMA-laptop?
23:42.22ManoftheSeaI mean, it should be a parallel effort, right?
23:43.03ManoftheSeaA board in a case which connects wifi, bluetooth, screen, keyboard, trackpad.
23:43.09ManoftheSeato the eoma slot
23:43.19mnemocI only consume and rant, I don't make or sell :<
23:43.30ManoftheSeaYeah, me too.
23:44.15technologov_Why are Chinese selling unbranded hardware ?
23:44.24technologov_Isn't it better to put your name on it ?
23:44.28ManoftheSeabecause they like money?
23:44.46technologov_they can put a name, like Chinese factory on street XYZ
23:45.38technologov_but hunting for data on Google is no joy: very hard for me to figure out who actually made the A10-based netbook
23:45.41mnemoctechnologov_: one makes the hardware in BIG F* LARGE quantieies, others buy LARGE quantities, put a brand and sell to retailers
23:46.32mnemoctechnologov_: search on alibaba... the one who doesn't sell less than 1k pieces makes it
23:46.44technologov_ha ha ^^
23:46.50technologov_good idea
23:47.29technologov_just in western world - the one who mades the hardware also brands it (with few exceptions)
23:47.45technologov_even if brand name is little-known, it exists
23:47.47mnemoctechnologov_: have you seen supermarket-branded products?
23:47.58technologov_yes, in Israel.
23:48.04technologov_some peppers are.
23:48.35technologov_so y, I agree, in this case I dunno the original manufacturer, but it is VERY rare here
23:49.08mnemocin all europe at least it's VERY common. small factories who can't affort the marketing sell to a single buyer who brands, distributes and sell
23:49.26penguin42supermarket brannded computers are pretty rare in the UK; most other stuff is common - although a lot of large stores have their own odd brands
23:50.10mnemocwell... true, I wasn't talking about supermarket-branded computers
23:50.36mnemocI only mean that selling a brand is expensive
23:50.41mnemocand troublesome
23:50.56*** join/#arm-netbook antony (~Adium@2001:980:7456:1:7de1:e0d4:9de7:b5e7)
23:51.06penguin42yeh
23:51.07mnemocsome prefer the anonymity
23:51.14technologov_also comparing a $2 pepper to $100 netbook is a big diff.
23:51.24mnemoc:)
23:51.27penguin42you don't get many $100 peppers
23:51.33technologov_ye ^^
23:51.55penguin42still, there are companies like Medion who specialise in selling to the supermarkets under their own brand as low end stuff
23:58.25mnemocyes, I remember a Lidl netbook from them

Generated by irclog2html.pl Modified by Tim Riker to work with infobot.