| 00:00.10 | hp_ | ManoftheSea: yep its USB powerd |
| 00:00.27 | ManoftheSea | that's impressive. |
| 00:00.32 | hno | single core A8 @ 1GHz, MALI 400 dual-core. |
| 00:00.33 | hp_ | for example if you put it in your laptop.. it can boot and takeover your laptop screen |
| 00:01.06 | ManoftheSea | I would wonder at the technical aspect of that... |
| 00:01.08 | hno | ManoftheSea, it runs on USB power. |
| 00:01.20 | ManoftheSea | again, I'M IMPRESSED. |
| 00:01.34 | hno | 500mA is sufficeint. 100ma is not. |
| 00:01.50 | ManoftheSea | hno: right, that's 2.5 W |
| 00:02.36 | ManoftheSea | which is to say, twice the cores as the allwinner, plus wireless x2, and it still draws half the power |
| 00:02.58 | ManoftheSea | hmm... |
| 00:05.27 | hno | Do we have any power specifications on the A10 design? |
| 00:07.51 | hno | the only I know is that it MUST be <5W as that is the max that EOMA68 can support in heat. |
| 00:08.20 | hno | and my impression is that A10 designs with wifi powers just fine on USB power. |
| 00:08.56 | hno | should be easy to measure on the mele. |
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| 02:16.05 | CIA-91 | rhombus-tech: Metro master * rbf79e19dcccb /allwinner_a10/orders/Mar00ned.mdwn: |
| 02:26.30 | *** join/#arm-netbook CapnKernel (~mjd@204.37.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 02:39.52 | A0Sheds | hno: the last I saw, the power spec was bumped up to 10W to support x86 or big multicore ARM socs's |
| 02:44.32 | A0Sheds | http://www.cstick.com/ can anyone point me to the cleverly hidden specs? |
| 02:44.54 | lundman | hmm |
| 02:45.43 | A0Sheds | we don't know how it is clocked, how much RAM and type and how its clocked |
| 02:46.21 | A0Sheds | the allwiner a10 can be clocked down low, I'm not certain how low but it's not a static design |
| 02:46.53 | A0Sheds | it might be underclockeable to <100mw |
| 02:48.42 | A0Sheds | it would also be interesting to find out who they contacted at Samsung to get parts |
| 02:49.30 | A0Sheds | we offered to trade them money for parts but did not hear back |
| 03:10.03 | A0Sheds | http://www.anandtech.com/show/5831/amd-trinity-review-a10-4600m-a-new-hope |
| 03:15.09 | A0Sheds | still waiting on the word for the lower power tablet APU after the Z01 http://www.amd.com/us/products/notebook/apu/Pages/tablet.aspx#3 |
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| 03:24.40 | mikey_w | Is there a way to enable sound on the mele running ubuntu lucid? |
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| 07:01.00 | CapnKernel | A0Sheds: Hi, there? |
| 07:17.01 | mnemoc | CapnKernel: just realized he is now probably sleeping |
| 07:17.06 | mnemoc | :| |
| 07:17.18 | mnemoc | bad habit |
| 07:31.47 | CapnKernel | Sleeping??? |
| 07:32.04 | CapnKernel | Humorous |
| 07:33.08 | *** join/#arm-netbook lerc_ (~quassel@121-74-236-206.telstraclear.net) |
| 07:33.23 | mnemoc | stupid genetic weakness we carry |
| 07:34.06 | hipboi__ | today i saw the new of A10 netbook |
| 07:34.28 | lerc_ | An A10 netbook actually exists?!? |
| 07:34.34 | mnemoc | hipboi__: hi :) |
| 07:34.34 | hipboi__ | yes |
| 07:34.40 | hipboi__ | mnemoc: hi |
| 07:34.57 | mnemoc | hipboi__: is it a tablet with keyboard or really designed as netbook, with sata and stuff? |
| 07:35.23 | hipboi__ | http://www.shanzhaiben.com/60/n-6060.html |
| 07:35.34 | hipboi__ | you can read the new here |
| 07:35.36 | hipboi__ | Chinese |
| 07:35.47 | hipboi__ | but you can see some pictures |
| 07:35.52 | mnemoc | doesn't resolve :( |
| 07:36.03 | *** join/#arm-netbook rm (rm@fsf/member/rm) |
| 07:36.09 | rm | hello |
| 07:36.40 | mnemoc | rm: hello |
| 07:36.44 | rm | does anyone know about http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/532332455-Mele-A1000-TV-box-Allwinner-A10-hackable-device-wholesalers.html |
| 07:36.44 | lerc_ | Need to give my Daughter a few more years of Chinese lessons. |
| 07:36.51 | rm | is this a kind of 'official' shop? |
| 07:37.15 | mnemoc | rm: the seller is right here, hipboi__ |
| 07:37.44 | rm | nice |
| 07:37.45 | hipboi__ | yes |
| 07:37.49 | hipboi__ | it's my shop |
| 07:38.16 | mnemoc | hipboi__: but "Online Store 511685".... come on, give it a decent name :p |
| 07:38.55 | mnemoc | hipboi__: as www.shanzhaiben.com doesn't resolve, can you give me the IP? |
| 07:39.07 | lerc_ | Happy Lucky Sun Farm Store 511685 |
| 07:43.57 | hipboi__ | oh, i did not concern it |
| 07:44.10 | hipboi__ | i will give a better name |
| 07:44.48 | mnemoc | :) |
| 07:45.37 | hipboi__ | 98.126.48.98 |
| 07:45.42 | hipboi__ | shanzhaiben.com |
| 07:45.57 | hipboi__ | ben means book |
| 07:46.15 | hipboi__ | shanzhai means KIRF |
| 07:46.53 | mnemoc | btw, do you pronounce sunxi as sun-x-i or sun-chi ? |
| 07:46.59 | hipboi__ | so.. the website is all about the news of unbranded tablet,notebook |
| 07:47.29 | hipboi__ | i pronounce it as son cha i |
| 07:47.44 | hipboi__ | x pronounce cha |
| 07:48.07 | mnemoc | thanks |
| 07:49.45 | rm | hipboi__, so do you sell them brand new and 100% as shown in https://www.dealextreme.com/p/mele-1080p-android-2-3-internet-tv-set-top-box-w-wifi-optical-3-x-usb-hdmi-av-lan-sd-119913 ? |
| 07:49.55 | hipboi__ | yes |
| 07:50.06 | rm | your shop lacks photos somewhat, and the only photos it has the box appears scratched/used ._. |
| 07:50.18 | hipboi__ | brand new, hot from the factory |
| 07:50.24 | mnemoc | turning xi into... 气 sounded rather cool, but I like son-cha-i too |
| 07:51.07 | hipboi__ | xi does not prounced as 气 |
| 07:51.25 | hipboi__ | 气 qi |
| 07:51.40 | hipboi__ | qi-hardware uses it |
| 07:52.07 | hipboi__ | rm: will update the photos |
| 07:52.51 | mnemoc | hipboi__: setting the ip in /etc/hosts worked, now reading the review of the netbook |
| 07:54.04 | hipboi__ | amazing |
| 07:54.10 | hipboi__ | i just found the ip 98.126.48.98 |
| 07:54.15 | hipboi__ | is another website |
| 07:54.24 | hipboi__ | micdigi |
| 07:54.42 | hipboi__ | the english version of shanzhaiben.com |
| 07:54.57 | hipboi__ | just put the 98.126.48.98 in web brower |
| 07:56.43 | mnemoc | hipboi__: the article doesn't mention sata, does it have? |
| 07:56.58 | hipboi__ | i don't think so |
| 07:59.56 | lerc_ | Any word on price? |
| 08:01.05 | hipboi__ | price? |
| 08:01.24 | hipboi__ | A1000 is the lowest price you can find on the internet |
| 08:01.26 | CapnKernel | can say shanzhai perfectly |
| 08:01.54 | hipboi__ | i make money on A2000 |
| 08:02.11 | hipboi__ | it's more expensive |
| 08:02.20 | hipboi__ | and people love to buy A2000 |
| 08:02.21 | lerc_ | The price of the A10 Netbook I mean. |
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| 08:02.32 | hipboi__ | ha |
| 08:02.41 | hipboi__ | less than 100$ |
| 08:03.00 | mnemoc | sad they missed the sata connector :< |
| 08:03.09 | hipboi__ | yes |
| 08:03.19 | hipboi__ | only 4GB flash |
| 08:03.26 | CapnKernel | You can always use USB-SATA |
| 08:03.44 | mnemoc | usb-sata stinks.... and probably doesn't have internal usb connectors |
| 08:03.56 | CapnKernel | "only 4GB flash" |
| 08:04.29 | CapnKernel | Just seven years ago I was working on firmware for Linux-powered ADSL modems, and the entry level model had just 4M of flash |
| 08:04.32 | lerc_ | I have been working on some ideas for a Distro for kids, Been waiting for a netbook with a decent Arm for ages. |
| 08:05.21 | mnemoc | I hate those clumsy cases with all my guts |
| 08:05.32 | lerc_ | I absolutely loathe those things you see in toy stores with the tiny Mono-LCD diplays in the middle of a fake screen. |
| 08:05.39 | zenitraM | the A2000 has 1gb ram and 802.11n WiFi according to Dealextreme, lol |
| 08:05.40 | zenitraM | http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mele-a2000-1080p-android-2-3-network-multi-media-player-w-sata-usb-hdmi-lan-vga-wifi-4gb-131566 |
| 08:06.20 | mnemoc | zenitraM: DX puts whatever their source tells them, and they usually lie |
| 08:06.26 | mnemoc | or don't know at all |
| 08:06.51 | mnemoc | they also need an excuse for the extra $$ comparing teh a1000 to the a2000 |
| 08:07.13 | mnemoc | but I do like the case of the a2000 more |
| 08:08.16 | zenitraM | also, horizontal uart! |
| 08:08.45 | rm | someone's making an A10 netbook? |
| 08:09.43 | mnemoc | rm: http://www.shanzhaiben.com/60/n-6060.html |
| 08:11.48 | rm | yeah except it doesn't load as discussed above :) |
| 08:13.35 | lerc_ | can you see http://www.shanzhaiben.com/attachments/2012/05/3_201205150956101Urt8.jpeg |
| 08:13.37 | hipboi__ | maybe i can gt some these notebooks |
| 08:13.44 | zenitraM | okay, the two libMali.so's on the qware zip are different to the one on the ubuntu image. so now we have three diferent mali libs |
| 08:13.59 | hipboi__ | get these notebook and sell on my online shop |
| 08:14.08 | mnemoc | rm: add 98.126.48.98www.shanzhaiben.com to your /etc/hosts |
| 08:14.40 | mnemoc | zenitraM: only one armhf |
| 08:15.09 | hipboi__ | zenitraM: what's the difference? |
| 08:15.25 | rm | okay, loaded the page now |
| 08:15.33 | rm | the netbook is nice, if a proper OS can be installed |
| 08:15.34 | lerc_ | hipboi__: That would be cool. I'd buy if I wan't broke :-) |
| 08:17.31 | zenitraM | hipboi__: well, just checked the md5, they are different files. |
| 08:17.43 | hipboi__ | yes |
| 08:17.49 | zenitraM | probably just compiled with different compilers or something and two of them are the same |
| 08:18.00 | hipboi__ | the same source code |
| 08:18.03 | hipboi__ | i think |
| 08:18.07 | hipboi__ | from arm |
| 08:30.43 | mnemoc | uhm... the wemac driver in the source drop only supports the MAC address to come from script.bin |
| 08:32.47 | zenitraM | feature suggestion: set either a fixed MAC or a random working one if there's no MAC on script.bin |
| 08:33.27 | mnemoc | it uses a random when set to invalid or 0 |
| 08:33.41 | mnemoc | but it's quite annoying when you have DHCP |
| 08:33.46 | zenitraM | where did 2.6.36 get the MAC from? |
| 08:34.02 | mnemoc | mac_addr from bootloader |
| 08:34.30 | mnemoc | using the real mac on the sticker |
| 08:34.39 | rm | so which one is a better choice, A1000 or A2000 |
| 08:34.48 | mnemoc | rm: A2000 :) |
| 08:35.33 | zenitraM | from boot.axf? |
| 08:36.04 | mnemoc | zenitraM: written directly to the uboot env in the factory |
| 08:36.40 | mnemoc | I'm trying to add mac_addr= support to the new driver |
| 08:37.03 | CIA-91 | rhombus-tech: lkcl master * r3b554bb04846 /allwinner_a10.mdwn: |
| 08:37.21 | CIA-91 | rhombus-tech: lkcl master * r02355432a90a /Proprietary_libraries.mdwn: |
| 08:38.44 | zenitraM | mnemoc: 2.6.36 didn't use uboot |
| 08:39.19 | mnemoc | zenitraM: so to the env of boot.axf |
| 08:39.45 | mnemoc | zenitraM: hipboi said on the ML it was to the env of uboot, but you are right, it must have been a confusion |
| 08:40.17 | CIA-91 | rhombus-tech: lkcl master * rf5cd7a7a5e5f / (3 files in 2 dirs): move page |
| 08:41.33 | zenitraM | mmm i was thinking on tablets, but they don't really have ethernet so probably they don't have it written and what i was thinking doesn't apply |
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| 08:44.36 | rm | which video driver is used for Xorg on A10 at the moment? |
| 08:44.42 | rm | framebuffer? |
| 08:45.18 | zenitraM | yes |
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| 08:47.25 | *** join/#arm-netbook Lerc (~Lerc@121.75.138.91) |
| 08:48.48 | rm | any hope for an accelerated driver? |
| 08:50.19 | mnemoc | yes, mali's |
| 08:50.26 | mnemoc | and later, lima |
| 08:51.27 | *** join/#arm-netbook lerc_ (~quassel@121.75.138.91) |
| 08:53.19 | rm | with fbdev, no video plays smoothly, right |
| 08:53.25 | rm | due to no Xv support |
| 08:53.46 | mnemoc | video playback is the job of the cedarx driver (VPU) |
| 08:54.11 | mnemoc | if you want it hardware accelerated I mean |
| 08:55.16 | rm | I don't mean hardware decoding, just acceleration of the simplest bitmap-copy functions (Xv support) which is usually the job of 2D EXA/XAA driver on any regular video card (not even GPU/VPU) |
| 08:55.33 | rm | afaik fbdev doesn't do that |
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| 09:24.27 | zenitraM | you'll need the x11 mele driver for that |
| 09:27.50 | mnemoc | it seem like I can only add support for sun4i_wemac.mac_addr=, not the naked mac_addr= :( |
| 09:27.56 | hipboi | there is a 2d engine in A10 |
| 09:28.19 | hipboi | which has directfb driver |
| 09:30.36 | mnemoc | g2d? |
| 09:34.40 | hipboi | yes |
| 10:20.05 | mnemoc | mac_addr= support restored in 3.0-v2 |
| 10:21.05 | mnemoc | but haven't found the problem in the sata driver yet :< |
| 10:22.03 | lundman | so can uboot be updated on the mele / a10 ? |
| 10:22.19 | mnemoc | lundman: sure |
| 10:22.59 | lundman | great. using onboard serial |
| 10:23.02 | lundman | ? |
| 10:23.25 | mnemoc | if booting from nand, replacing u-boot.bin in nanda |
| 10:23.54 | mnemoc | if booting from SD, injecting it at a given offset |
| 10:26.08 | lundman | cool. i added ext4 and zfs to uboot |
| 10:26.09 | mnemoc | just be careful with what you use, the publicly available mmc-capable branch doesn't know to read the nand |
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| 12:14.30 | A0Sheds | hipboi, http://www.cnx-software.com/2012/04/16/sunlike-umpc-1021-85-usd-allwinner-a10-based-10-2-android-4-0-netbook/ it has a few issues with drivers for Android, keyboards and camera are the main ones |
| 13:09.15 | CIA-91 | rhombus-tech: lkcl master * ra4764587c9e0 /allwinner_a10/orders/ (Mar00ned.mdwn alex2.mdwn): order processing cleanup |
| 13:26.11 | CIA-91 | rhombus-tech: tsebis master * r0d7591f738ed /allwinner_a10/orders/TSEBIS.mdwn: |
| 14:20.10 | traeak | why do people care about soft float arm stuff ? |
| 14:25.40 | mnemoc | because hf is too new and rarely supported? |
| 14:28.10 | DonkeyHotei | there have been hard float arm chips as far back as armv4, but it never had anything remotely close to a standardized abi |
| 14:28.48 | mnemoc | iirc gcc didn't support it until like a year ago |
| 14:29.24 | DonkeyHotei | well, it used to be emulated in software, e.g. nwfpe.ko |
| 14:30.29 | CapnKernel | fun. |
| 14:31.18 | traeak | and hf systems can't just run sf executables? |
| 14:31.28 | DonkeyHotei | they can |
| 14:31.33 | DonkeyHotei | but not vice versa |
| 14:31.56 | DonkeyHotei | the a10 is hf |
| 14:32.12 | traeak | cortex-a8 are all hf by spec |
| 14:32.28 | traeak | armv7 and beyond right? |
| 14:32.31 | mnemoc | hf *capable* hardware doesn't imply the libc will be able to deal with binaries compiled with that abi |
| 14:33.03 | traeak | so just ship with hf libc :-p |
| 14:33.21 | DonkeyHotei | exactly |
| 14:33.28 | mnemoc | but then you can't run sf binaries |
| 14:33.35 | DonkeyHotei | ah |
| 14:34.03 | DonkeyHotei | shouldn't be a big issue, though |
| 14:34.19 | DonkeyHotei | there is debian sf and debian hf |
| 14:34.19 | mnemoc | with closed source binaries it is an issue |
| 14:34.23 | DonkeyHotei | oh |
| 14:34.32 | mnemoc | comercial apps |
| 14:34.42 | traeak | seems strange it would seem like sf is just a subset of hf |
| 14:34.53 | DonkeyHotei | well, how many of those are there for a10? |
| 14:35.24 | DonkeyHotei | traeak: you know how libraries work, right? |
| 14:35.50 | traeak | DonkeyHotei: yes of course, symbols, etc |
| 14:35.52 | mnemoc | traeak: sf binaries use VFP, and a hf libc wouldn't support that |
| 14:36.44 | DonkeyHotei | it was my understanding that sf was created specifically to avoid vfp |
| 14:36.51 | mnemoc | so you would need a multilib system, like for running 32b in x86-64 |
| 14:37.17 | traeak | which doesn't exist yet....so it's not a technology challenge but a resource one (actually doing the work) |
| 14:37.36 | DonkeyHotei | what doesn't exist? |
| 14:38.02 | traeak | multilib system...loader detects sf executable and responds appropriately |
| 14:38.05 | mnemoc | traeak: cnx-whatever has an article explaining how to install multilib arm debians iirc |
| 14:38.26 | traeak | okay so it does exist then, cool |
| 14:38.38 | traeak | which means we shouldn't even talk about SF kernels, userspace, etc :-p |
| 14:39.08 | mnemoc | the syscalls interface is neutral in this sense |
| 14:39.16 | DonkeyHotei | how many binary-only apps are there for a10? |
| 14:39.45 | CapnKernel | The kernel is a float-free environment |
| 14:39.51 | traeak | probably not for a10, likely legacy stuff for arm11, etc |
| 14:40.05 | DonkeyHotei | like what? |
| 14:42.11 | mnemoc | what about dalvik files? |
| 14:42.34 | DonkeyHotei | bytecode, aren't they? |
| 14:42.58 | mnemoc | fair enough |
| 14:44.31 | DonkeyHotei | seems to me anything binary-only we could run into would not be an app |
| 14:44.48 | DonkeyHotei | but more like hardware support |
| 14:46.04 | A0Sheds | hp_ : often more is involved with purchasing ARM SOC's than just order, pay, deliver |
| 14:46.12 | mnemoc | and commercial applications |
| 14:46.27 | CIA-91 | rhombus-tech: tsebis master * rea41224b7222 /allwinner_a10/orders/TSEBIS.mdwn: |
| 14:47.14 | DonkeyHotei | what commercial apps? |
| 14:47.17 | A0Sheds | hp_ : often it involves the ARM SOC vendor approving of it's usage, or being convinced that you can build a working design so they they won't be sued for your failure to do so |
| 14:48.04 | mnemoc | DonkeyHotei: video players, and whatever vendors add to "add value" to the devices |
| 14:48.39 | mnemoc | that stuff is usually native binary |
| 14:48.47 | DonkeyHotei | i'm quite sure any such apps could be provided for hf upon request |
| 14:49.07 | DonkeyHotei | instead of sf |
| 14:49.41 | DonkeyHotei | i can't imagine it being "legacy" |
| 14:51.01 | hp_ | A0Sheds oh thats a whole different ballgame |
| 14:52.25 | DonkeyHotei | mnemoc: right? |
| 14:53.59 | mnemoc | DonkeyHotei: at least in my world the platforms adapts to match the needs of the commercial app and not the other way around |
| 14:54.11 | mnemoc | DonkeyHotei: but mine is an ugly world |
| 14:55.03 | traeak | oh why oh why can't the mips guys just be open? |
| 14:55.04 | traeak | heh |
| 14:55.05 | DonkeyHotei | there are always other commercial apps |
| 14:55.35 | mnemoc | the myth of "the market will fix the problem" :p |
| 14:56.35 | traeak | yup |
| 15:04.17 | DonkeyHotei | the market fix to commercial apps ultimately is paying for open source/free software |
| 15:07.27 | mnemoc | in niche markets it's usually one or at most two companies providing usuable solutions, and they can do whatever they want with their slave customers |
| 15:09.48 | DonkeyHotei | the market fix to that problem as well, ultimately, is paying for open source/free software |
| 15:10.13 | DonkeyHotei | that's where the gpl is really elegant |
| 15:11.14 | *** join/#arm-netbook cromo (~cromo@176-232-251-94.net.stream.pl) |
| 15:12.50 | A0Sheds | hp_ : http://am.renesas.com/applications/automotive/cis/cis_highend/rcar_h1/index.jsp checking with the product manager on this right now |
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| 15:26.44 | mnemoc | A0Sheds: hi, can you give us an update about the production of eoma68 cards? still looking of micro hdmi connectors? |
| 15:27.31 | A0Sheds | mnemoc, I'm not involved with that |
| 15:28.29 | traeak | powervr: always sucked since inception |
| 15:28.33 | traeak | especially open source support |
| 15:29.26 | mnemoc | A0Sheds: that's a surprise... I thought you were making them... |
| 15:29.39 | *** join/#arm-netbook gsilvis (~almostsix@50.12.163.241) |
| 15:33.09 | mnemoc | A0Sheds: so it's all in lkcl's hands now? |
| 15:35.14 | A0Sheds | mnemoc, I don't really know. I never really did. Just whats on the wiki and that's mostly just tech info. |
| 15:36.07 | A0Sheds | it's like an onion and I'm only on the surface like you |
| 15:36.13 | mnemoc | but but but... not long ago the connectors where going to be sent to you for been reviewed |
| 15:36.20 | mnemoc | were* |
| 15:36.38 | mnemoc | puzzled now |
| 15:36.56 | A0Sheds | somebody else AFAIK is working on something, what exactly I don't even know |
| 15:37.24 | A0Sheds | if you see it in writing anywhere please let me know |
| 15:38.07 | mnemoc | 2012-05-07.log.bz2:13:06:24< A1Sheds> still no uHDMI connectors so it's looking like Amphenol until something better comes along |
| 15:38.25 | mnemoc | A1Sheds != A0Sheds ? |
| 15:38.50 | mnemoc | scratches his head |
| 15:39.28 | A0Sheds | I could still design my own cards, but I don't know what the others here are actually up to |
| 15:40.20 | A0Sheds | mnemoc, I'm waiting to see what happens myself |
| 15:41.34 | mnemoc | thanks for clarifying. I was sure you were part of luke's team |
| 15:42.32 | A0Sheds | I never met the "team", I'm not sure who or what exactly that is |
| 15:43.23 | A0Sheds | which i knew more |
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| 15:43.41 | A0Sheds | have to wait and see what cards come out |
| 15:44.26 | mnemoc | suddenly all this feels like vapour again :< |
| 15:44.56 | mnemoc | sad |
| 15:45.10 | A0Sheds | not sure if eoma68 still makes sense, maybe a higher pin count card would be better? |
| 15:45.39 | A0Sheds | connectors and tooling are inexpensive now |
| 15:46.54 | A0Sheds | and the card shells have to be modified anyway |
| 15:47.17 | A0Sheds | the card idea still makes a lot of sense |
| 15:47.33 | A0Sheds | I'm just not sure about the A10 |
| 15:48.22 | A0Sheds | and the other ARM SOC vendors don't really seem like they are trying to work with us, unless you want to buy the parts that nobody wants anymore |
| 15:49.18 | CapnKernel | A0Sheds: Hi there |
| 15:49.27 | A0Sheds | Marvell was interested in only selling us the GPU-less multicore devices |
| 15:49.30 | CapnKernel | My name's Mitch |
| 15:49.47 | CapnKernel | I'm a westerner, but I live in Shenzhen China |
| 15:50.00 | CapnKernel | Which you probably know is home to the world's largest electronics market. |
| 15:50.12 | DonkeyHotei | lack of a gpu would simplify some thing and make others a nightmare |
| 15:50.29 | DonkeyHotei | s/thing/things/ |
| 15:51.08 | A0Sheds | http://www.marvell.com/embedded-processors/armada-xp/ |
| 15:51.21 | CapnKernel | Oh sorry, seems I'm interrupting. |
| 15:51.30 | A0Sheds | CapnKernel, no problem |
| 15:51.41 | A0Sheds | whats happenin? |
| 15:52.15 | CapnKernel | I'm heading back to Shenzhen next week :-) |
| 15:52.26 | cromo | mnemoc: could you please upload somewhere a script.bin that has ethernet working? I don't have the serial console ATM and don't know which one is which any more |
| 15:52.27 | A0Sheds | MV78460 + AMD GPU is possible |
| 15:53.35 | A0Sheds | http://www.marvell.com/digital-entertainment/armada-1500/ they didn't even want to give us data sheets for these |
| 15:53.41 | A0Sheds | even under NDA |
| 15:54.16 | DonkeyHotei | the armada xp looks best suited for nas devices |
| 15:54.32 | traeak | any way to work over the mips guys? |
| 15:54.36 | A0Sheds | the OLPC uses the Armada 610 http://www.marvell.com/application-processors/armada-600/ |
| 15:54.46 | cromo | mnemoc: ok, never mind, just got it working at this very moment after two days of trying :o |
| 15:54.53 | DonkeyHotei | but yes, 78460+amd sounds really good |
| 15:55.11 | A0Sheds | traeak, I've designed several mips boards, just get the docs |
| 15:55.13 | traeak | problem is thestupid extra blocks (incl gpu) |
| 15:56.27 | A0Sheds | http://www.marvell.com/embedded-processors/armada-300/ might be possible |
| 15:56.38 | A0Sheds | whats up with marvell Linux support? |
| 15:57.01 | A0Sheds | it's in the kernel but i always hear about how it's buggy or incomplete |
| 15:57.25 | DonkeyHotei | marvell employs a number of kernel code committers |
| 15:57.25 | A0Sheds | does anyone know how well the support really is? |
| 15:57.50 | A0Sheds | yeah, thats what I always hear, but it's not the answer to the question :) |
| 15:58.07 | DonkeyHotei | as for the bugginess, it's their cores that are buggy, not the linux support |
| 15:58.14 | A0Sheds | ah ok |
| 15:58.24 | A0Sheds | also another thing I've heard |
| 15:58.39 | DonkeyHotei | i helped openocd add feroceon support, and it was ridiculous |
| 15:58.52 | A0Sheds | yet they sell themselves as a hardware co and not a software co |
| 15:59.11 | A0Sheds | they say they have a few thousand engineers |
| 15:59.30 | A0Sheds | not really sure how they define engineer |
| 15:59.47 | Turl | marvell? I've only had bad experiences with them :) |
| 15:59.56 | Turl | I own a wifi card with a marvell chip |
| 16:00.10 | Turl | no linux support, had to use ndiswrapper and it was derpy |
| 16:00.24 | Turl | but it was not ndiswrapper's fault, the card was even derpy on windows :) |
| 16:00.32 | traeak | marvell, broadcom...lovely companies |
| 16:00.33 | A0Sheds | Turl, yeah, that's a common feeling shared with Linux devs |
| 16:00.54 | Turl | would drop signal randomly, stall and do weird stuff |
| 16:01.09 | Turl | BSOD windows once in a while too |
| 16:01.16 | A0Sheds | I actually offered Marvell free linux porting and support for their devices in exchange for docs, even if we don't end up buying their parts.... |
| 16:01.21 | t0dbld|work | i am a marvel engineer ... I accidently clicked a link in my spam folder ... sigh what can i do to help you ;-P |
| 16:01.28 | A0Sheds | know what their answer was? |
| 16:01.39 | *** join/#arm-netbook cromo (~cromo@176-232-251-94.net.stream.pl) |
| 16:01.41 | traeak | go fsck yourself? |
| 16:01.45 | Turl | A0Sheds: 'gtfo' ? :P |
| 16:02.01 | A0Sheds | (chirp chirp.........) still waiting |
| 16:02.36 | traeak | "we don't want to give you the docs" ? |
| 16:02.50 | A0Sheds | and that was through the sales rep and FAE to the product manager |
| 16:03.11 | A0Sheds | the rep doesn't even reply now |
| 16:03.50 | mnemoc | cromo: :) |
| 16:05.53 | A0Sheds | OLPC told me that after Marvell gave them the $5M that the docs would not be as opened as promised earlier |
| 16:06.02 | A0Sheds | no gpu docs, no gpu source |
| 16:06.29 | A0Sheds | so marvell gave OLPC $5M to use their parts marvells way |
| 16:07.23 | A0Sheds | so it's not just trade money for parts, it's beyond that arrangement |
| 16:07.45 | A0Sheds | the SOC makers want control over your products and prices |
| 16:07.58 | DonkeyHotei | so there is nothing open about the 610 gpu? |
| 16:08.18 | A0Sheds | Vivante |
| 16:08.42 | A0Sheds | I met with the VP of Eng at Computex 2 years ago at their booth |
| 16:09.00 | A0Sheds | i offered him the same deal on the GPU since they didn't even have support |
| 16:09.12 | A0Sheds | specs for driver support |
| 16:09.54 | A0Sheds | the marvell CEO is on the board of directors at Vivante |
| 16:10.07 | A0Sheds | no interest |
| 16:10.15 | DonkeyHotei | makes sense |
| 16:10.47 | A0Sheds | profit on part sales is not enough |
| 16:10.48 | DonkeyHotei | but i meant: olpc got nothing opened for the 610? |
| 16:10.53 | A0Sheds | nope |
| 16:11.49 | DonkeyHotei | it's nice that google was able to force openness/freedom for ivy bridge/sandy bridge for chromebooks |
| 16:12.19 | A0Sheds | http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO-1.75#Software |
| 16:13.15 | A0Sheds | http://www.vivantecorp.com/p_mvr.html |
| 16:13.35 | traeak | so intel wins if they aren't idiots like the arm license holders |
| 16:14.01 | A0Sheds | coreboot for intel |
| 16:14.16 | A0Sheds | we offered Intel the same deal back in 99 |
| 16:14.25 | A0Sheds | specs for coreboot ports |
| 16:14.37 | A0Sheds | EFI was their agenda |
| 16:15.25 | A0Sheds | now Intel needs coreboot since AMD and ARM vendors ship free working firmware with their devices that offer 1-2 sec boot |
| 16:16.14 | A0Sheds | AMD supports coreboot from the factory |
| 16:16.39 | A0Sheds | ARM vendors don't always offer open/free firmware but it is at no cost |
| 16:16.51 | A0Sheds | Intel has none |
| 16:17.32 | A0Sheds | Google hire the two main devs from coreboot as well, so they have at least 3 coreboot devs in house now |
| 16:18.48 | DonkeyHotei | intel is an arm vendor too, though |
| 16:19.25 | DonkeyHotei | and coreboot nearly gave up on the world when arm vendors expressed support for efi |
| 16:19.53 | A0Sheds | heh |
| 16:20.14 | A0Sheds | the BIOS vendors tried to con everyone into thinking they needed a BIOS |
| 16:20.35 | DonkeyHotei | slowly but surely, the free software movement is in the endgame of winning |
| 16:20.37 | A0Sheds | Intel sold their ARM group to marvell |
| 16:21.01 | DonkeyHotei | they sold xscale |
| 16:21.11 | DonkeyHotei | not all arm |
| 16:21.11 | A0Sheds | back in 02 or so |
| 16:21.44 | A0Sheds | Is there an Intel arm device lurking in the shadows? |
| 16:22.23 | DonkeyHotei | there have been a few here and there |
| 16:22.40 | DonkeyHotei | the iop's are arm |
| 16:23.27 | A0Sheds | I've lost track of Intel |
| 16:23.40 | A0Sheds | pretty much just AMD designs now |
| 16:23.44 | A0Sheds | for x86 |
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| 16:26.53 | DonkeyHotei | amd should get into arm |
| 16:27.00 | A0Sheds | yeah |
| 16:27.16 | traeak | get into arm or try to resurrect mips :-p |
| 16:27.18 | DonkeyHotei | x86's days are numbered |
| 16:27.23 | A0Sheds | well they have had some pretty poor management |
| 16:27.37 | traeak | dunno...that new medfield or whatever that intel released for mobile phones looks to be competitive. |
| 16:27.45 | traeak | intel flexing their superior manufacturing capabilities |
| 16:27.55 | A0Sheds | a few years when they were looking to buy ATI they looked at buying nvidia |
| 16:28.14 | A0Sheds | nvidias CEO was interested in selling only if he could run AMD |
| 16:28.17 | DonkeyHotei | the potential of x86 is very finite |
| 16:28.19 | traeak | heh |
| 16:28.27 | traeak | nvidia |
| 16:28.52 | A0Sheds | AMD backed away, now AMD is hardly breaking even and nvidia has profits out their ears |
| 16:29.08 | A0Sheds | intel pushed nvidia out of x86 chipset space |
| 16:29.20 | A0Sheds | so nvidia went with arm + their GPU's |
| 16:29.38 | A0Sheds | best thing Intel ever did for nvidia |
| 16:30.12 | A0Sheds | AMD bought Alchemy back in ~03 (mips) |
| 16:30.38 | A0Sheds | squandered it |
| 16:31.35 | A0Sheds | AMD management has been so poor I've wondered if it's not actually run by Intel just to no be a monopoly on x86 |
| 16:31.51 | DonkeyHotei | well, it kinda is |
| 16:32.35 | A0Sheds | I have to go soon.... |
| 16:32.54 | A0Sheds | so if anyone finds an ARM SOC that will work with us let me know |
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| 16:39.38 | DonkeyHotei | A0Sheds: a10 seems the best so far |
| 16:40.08 | traeak | the a10 is aging fast but is good for now |
| 16:40.53 | DonkeyHotei | if allwinner plays ball, it might be a great beginning |
| 16:41.48 | mnemoc | a10 joined very late in the cortex-a8 race, and kicked them all out |
| 16:42.19 | mnemoc | i trust the sun6i soc will do the same |
| 16:42.41 | Turl | any guesses for dual core A15 from allwinner? :) |
| 16:43.08 | DonkeyHotei | let's just wait and see. speculation really is no help |
| 16:43.24 | mnemoc | Turl: come on, there is no announcement of the cortex a9 one yet |
| 16:43.37 | Turl | (A15 as in cortex A15) |
| 16:43.45 | traeak | they should just skip the a9 anyways :-p |
| 16:43.53 | Turl | mnemoc: yeah, just dreaming a bit over here :) |
| 16:45.06 | mnemoc | but cortex-a15 is probably out of the target market of allwinner |
| 16:45.26 | Turl | mnemoc: well, eventually it'll be in |
| 16:45.38 | mnemoc | eventually |
| 16:46.56 | traeak | amlogic has the low end a9 market though right? |
| 16:48.27 | Turl | I heard amlogic chips were lower end than allwinner's |
| 16:48.53 | Turl | I haven't actually checked though |
| 16:49.11 | traeak | haven't seen benchies or tried to myself |
| 16:50.43 | t0dbld|work | lol there is a lower end ? |
| 16:51.04 | Turl | t0dbld|work: yeah |
| 16:51.11 | t0dbld|work | sweet !! |
| 16:51.20 | Turl | t0dbld|work: tabs with resistive screens running gb or froyo |
| 16:51.21 | t0dbld|work | Were not the worst !! |
| 16:51.33 | Turl | lol |
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| 17:23.34 | CIA-91 | rhombus-tech: lkcl master * r43833fd6c5a5 /allwinner_a10/orders/ (TSEBIS.mdwn TSEBIS_stable.mdwn): order processing cleanup |
| 17:23.38 | CIA-91 | rhombus-tech: lkcl master * r1c24c0983f1b /allwinner_a10/order_processing.py: add extra assessment pricing |
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| 18:00.15 | *** part/#arm-netbook QingPei1 (~qingpei@180.99.68.166) |
| 18:02.41 | *** join/#arm-netbook cromo (~cromo@176-232-251-94.net.stream.pl) |
| 18:10.09 | mikey_w | Any rumors of a ICS for the mele? |
| 18:13.57 | DonkeyHotei | we could make one |
| 18:17.10 | mikey_w | Ok let's do it. |
| 18:17.21 | zenitraM | mikey_w: there's a beta image |
| 18:17.28 | zenitraM | and supposingly it should come out soon |
| 18:19.03 | mnemoc | DonkeyHotei: we can't yet. one source tree doesn't have video and ther other doesn't have sata (yet) |
| 18:19.28 | mikey_w | ok |
| 18:19.40 | DonkeyHotei | i didn't mean now |
| 18:19.46 | mnemoc | :) |
| 18:20.57 | mikey_w | Or a nice google TV image. |
| 18:21.09 | *** join/#arm-netbook mtd_ (~martin@chop.xades.com) |
| 18:26.56 | A0Sheds | has anyone hacked a Google TV box yet with the Armada 1500? |
| 18:31.14 | A0Sheds | nevermind it's only been 5 months, there no hardware yet |
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| 18:42.39 | cromo | is there a way to edit the uboot settings from sdcard? I am out of the serial console temporarily and have messed up something I think with kernel boot parameters before the ttl<>usb adapter died |
| 18:43.50 | specing | cromo: hardcode it into the kernel |
| 18:44.22 | cromo | will that override the paramteres passed by bootloader? |
| 18:44.29 | specing | yeah |
| 18:44.39 | cromo | thanks |
| 18:46.05 | cromo | can someone please paste the default and working boot parameters? I am too tired with getting this back to life |
| 18:48.26 | specing | console=ttyS0,115200 root=/dev/nandb rw init=/init fbmem=32M@0x5a000000 loglevel=8 |
| 18:49.46 | mikey_w | What streaming channels can be added to base mele? |
| 18:50.03 | mikey_w | I added netflix and it works fine. |
| 18:53.47 | cromo | specing: thank u |
| 18:54.03 | cromo | althouth your root looks like you're booting from nand? |
| 18:54.06 | cromo | I use mmc |
| 18:56.29 | t0dbld|work | why doe you guys use that line when you dont have init in / |
| 18:56.31 | t0dbld|work | ?? |
| 18:59.40 | Turl | t0dbld|work: android does |
| 19:00.06 | t0dbld|work | oh well i see in all there mele images have it in ubuntu builds and others as well |
| 19:00.11 | t0dbld|work | thats why im confused |
| 19:00.33 | cromo | where do I find CONFIG_BOOTARGS? |
| 19:00.51 | t0dbld|work | in kernel |
| 19:00.51 | cromo | or where do I put it |
| 19:00.55 | cromo | that I know |
| 19:01.02 | t0dbld|work | search it |
| 19:01.08 | cromo | I do, takes time ;) |
| 19:01.37 | t0dbld|work | :-) |
| 19:01.39 | t0dbld|work | a lot of times it will come up as question when your compiling |
| 19:01.42 | t0dbld|work | or goto |
| 19:01.44 | t0dbld|work | rather |
| 19:01.50 | t0dbld|work | unless its pre set |
| 19:01.57 | cromo | it's not in .config |
| 19:01.59 | Turl | on menuconfig you can hit / and search for it |
| 19:02.09 | cromo | it's not there, first thing I tried |
| 19:02.21 | Turl | sure that's the right name? |
| 19:02.26 | Turl | I think it was named CMDLINE |
| 19:02.32 | cromo | hmm |
| 19:02.38 | cromo | that's what google said |
| 19:02.56 | Turl | try cmdline on menuconfig and see what it shows |
| 19:03.02 | cromo | but you're right I think |
| 19:03.05 | specing | cromo: it is the default for android |
| 19:03.14 | cromo | damn |
| 19:03.18 | cromo | blind me |
| 19:03.20 | cromo | thanks |
| 19:03.22 | cromo | it's there |
| 19:03.28 | specing | cromo: I have not found a serial port over here so Im pretty much hopeless right now |
| 19:04.01 | cromo | what do you use for dev? mele or some tablet? |
| 19:04.08 | cromo | I assume tablet, cause mele has uart port |
| 19:04.52 | specing | tablet |
| 19:04.52 | specing | And Im not deving yet |
| 19:05.07 | specing | Beside having an out of date Gentoo root on a SD card |
| 19:06.27 | cromo | I see |
| 19:06.54 | cromo | OK, I'm off to resurrecting this sh*t |
| 19:08.59 | t0dbld|work | specing: what HW you running ? |
| 19:09.07 | t0dbld|work | you said gentoo you have a display ? |
| 19:09.18 | hno | cromo, the uboot environment is on the sd-card. Don't remeber exact offset but between u-boot and first partition. |
| 19:12.31 | specing | t0dbld|work: random A10 unnamed tablet |
| 19:12.42 | specing | t0dbld|work: I'm waiting for lima |
| 19:12.47 | t0dbld|work | mali-400 ? |
| 19:12.49 | specing | and/or time |
| 19:12.53 | specing | yes, m4 |
| 19:12.53 | t0dbld|work | so no display ? |
| 19:13.00 | specing | only chroot |
| 19:13.08 | t0dbld|work | oh lolo |
| 19:13.16 | t0dbld|work | ok well i got it booting and fully working |
| 19:13.21 | t0dbld|work | but display is not at all |
| 19:13.30 | *** join/#arm-netbook cromo (~cromo@176-232-251-94.net.stream.pl) |
| 19:14.00 | cromo | hno: thanks, although I worked it around with hardcoding parameters into kernel |
| 19:20.50 | zenitraM | mnemoc: does v2 work disabling sata? (if even possible) |
| 19:24.56 | t0dbld|work | zenitraM: hno mnemoc any of you got any idea why the drivers we have would work in ubuntu debian etc .. but i cant get display in gentoo ? |
| 19:27.58 | hno | zenitraM, yes. |
| 19:28.14 | hno | t0dbld|work, no idea. Should work. But have not played with the display part a all yet. |
| 19:28.37 | zenitraM | t0dbld: do you have any log output from Xorg? |
| 19:28.47 | t0dbld|work | i have every linux distro working on a10 mali-400 tab .. i personally want gentoo |
| 19:28.56 | t0dbld|work | but i cant get any display |
| 19:28.58 | t0dbld|work | not console |
| 19:29.01 | t0dbld|work | not anything |
| 19:29.27 | t0dbld|work | zenitraM: yeah not really helpful i mean i cant even get the console to come up |
| 19:29.42 | t0dbld|work | rembmer gentoo doesnt boot x by defualt |
| 19:29.53 | zenitraM | ah |
| 19:29.57 | zenitraM | the problem is: |
| 19:30.05 | zenitraM | there is no framebuffer support in the kernel |
| 19:30.40 | zenitraM | s/framebuffer/framebuffer console/ |
| 19:30.57 | t0dbld|work | yeah ive tried addint it |
| 19:31.01 | t0dbld|work | that fialed me as well |
| 19:31.04 | t0dbld|work | failed |
| 19:31.07 | t0dbld|work | lol now i cant type |
| 19:31.38 | t0dbld|work | well that being said though if i default it to booting into x with a window manager i should get something |
| 19:35.19 | mnemoc | zenitraM: sure it works |
| 19:36.48 | mnemoc | zenitraM: also mangled this morning to honor the mac_addr= kernel argument like v1 and 2.6.36 did |
| 19:37.53 | mnemoc | X doesn't need fbcon, only fb (modprobe lcd) |
| 19:38.06 | zenitraM | yeah, i saw that :) |
| 19:38.14 | zenitraM | you also need modprobe disp (although lcd should trigger it) |
| 19:38.37 | mnemoc | yes, if it doesn't it's a bug |
| 19:39.02 | zenitraM | mm, which config param disables sata? |
| 19:39.20 | mnemoc | sun4i_defconfig doesn't enable it at all |
| 19:39.35 | mnemoc | the source drop from qware didn't include it |
| 19:39.44 | mnemoc | so it comes from v1 |
| 19:40.16 | zenitraM | so the sun4i_defconfig on v2 should leave it disabled? |
| 19:40.22 | mnemoc | right |
| 19:41.42 | mnemoc | but I'm quite busy with $work$ it would be great if you could debug/fix the sata problem.... just be sure to enable it as module or you won't boot |
| 19:42.06 | mnemoc | there is a ticket open with the current error |
| 19:42.14 | zenitraM | so what's the param to enable it? can't see it |
| 19:42.23 | zenitraM | mmm let's see.. |
| 19:42.32 | mnemoc | first enable ATA |
| 19:43.00 | mnemoc | then it should ask you |
| 19:43.40 | zenitraM | i see it, SoftWinner Platform AHCI SATA support (NEW)? |
| 19:43.55 | mnemoc | that one, yes |
| 19:43.57 | mnemoc | as m |
| 19:45.04 | mnemoc | it won't bother you until the explicit modprobe |
| 19:45.23 | mnemoc | then you'll need a serial console to see the vomit |
| 19:47.39 | zenitraM | building... |
| 19:48.38 | mnemoc | please file tickets if you face other problems |
| 19:51.14 | zenitraM | i'll do, wanna fiddle a bit with directfb + g2d and see how/if it works |
| 19:53.31 | mnemoc | want to become "collaborator"? that way you can get tickets assigned... but you'll also be spammed everytime someone reports something |
| 19:53.50 | t0dbld|work | spam ?!? yes sign me up :-) |
| 19:53.53 | zenitraM | sure! |
| 19:54.09 | zenitraM | i'll leave the spam to gmail to sort it out :) |
| 19:54.19 | t0dbld|work | haha |
| 19:54.31 | mnemoc | :) |
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| 21:33.42 | CIA-91 | rhombus-tech: bari master * r9d05647cdc2c /evaluated_cpus.mdwn: |
| 21:34.02 | A0Sheds | http://www.cnx-software.com/2011/03/30/new-digital-media-processor-conexant-cx92755/ any news on Linux support for these? |
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| 22:50.32 | zenitraM | https://github.com/mroth/lolcommits we need to implement this. |
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