IRC log for #arm-netbook on 20120409

15:01.02*** join/#arm-netbook ibot (~ibot@rikers.org)
15:01.02*** topic/#arm-netbook is EOMA: Embedded Open Modular Architecture - Don't ask to ask. Just ask! - http://elinux.org/Embedded_Open_Modular_Architecture/EOMA-68 - ML arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk - Logs http://ibot.rikers.org/%23arm-netbook - http://rhombus-tech.net/
15:41.59A0ShedsRTEMS just added support for smt32f
15:42.27A0Shedsso all we have to do is add the stm32 cortex m3 and also the drivers for peripherals
15:42.40A0Shedsand we cover the whole family
15:47.20A0Shedshttp://git.rtems.org/rtems/commit/?id=e230fb44a63a27dae572e379094a6e499165f776
16:06.14specingHmm, what does RTEMS have to do with EOMA A10?
16:07.22mnemocspecing: the io boards connected to eoma modules will use a cortex-m3 to control them
16:07.35A0Shedsit's the real time OS chosen for the stm32 and lpc17xx used for the IO boards
16:08.09specingSo the m4 will be on IO boards?
16:08.17specingor will it be right next to the A10?
16:08.29A0Shedsthe stm32 is the EC (embedded controller) use for functions in a netbook or laptop'it's outside the card on the IO board
16:09.06A0Shedsit handles things like battery charging, lid open/closed, audio, GPIO, user interface buttons or keyboard scan etc etc
16:09.08specingah
16:09.28specingI could do all that (minus audio) on a 8-bit AVR
16:10.04A0Shedsbut this is to standardize and replace closed firmware used for the past 20 years that also included ACPI
16:10.19specingok
16:10.27A0Shedslaptops typically used H8 or 8051's
16:10.37specingHow much does the stm32<the part number you chose> cost?
16:10.46A0Sheds$1
16:10.58A0Shedsthe same as the 8051's or H8's
16:11.07specingWhere is the link?
16:11.12A0Shedsto?
16:11.17specingthe part
16:11.18specingm4
16:11.27traeakvery nice
16:11.28A0Shedsoh, there's a whole family
16:11.32specingthat has all the features you are planning to use
16:11.45traeakthis is for the rhombust stuff?
16:11.46specingA0Sheds: I know, that is why I made the stm32<the part number you chose>
16:11.46mnemocRTEMS ported the m4 but we are going to use m3
16:12.01mnemocat least that was the plan
16:12.07A0Shedsthe smt32F was actually a project by an stm32 dev that he just posted since a proposal for GSOC covered what he was working on
16:12.19A0Shedsm3 and now m4 as well
16:12.54A0Shedswe knew somebody had it working, this got them off their duff and made patch public
16:13.36A0Shedshttp://rhombus-tech.net./gsoc2012/ideas/openec32/
16:14.06mnemocspecing: if you wanna play http://wvshare.com/ have very very sexy smt32f103 kits :) ... also ICs
16:14.11traeakvery sweet
16:14.13A0Shedsand we have two other projects to port libs and routines from that cover the majority of our requirements
16:14.43mnemocwshare.com sells on ebay too
16:14.45A0ShedsopenEC is what OLPC uses for their ARM and x86 laptops
16:15.21A0Shedsand now the RTEMS devs have graciously given us a slot at GSOC to fund a student to work on out project
16:15.29A0Shedsout/our
16:15.43specingmnemoc: thanks, but Im really overflowed with AVR projects currently :D
16:16.02lkclmoorning all
16:16.17A0Shedswe need to support both ARm and x86 on the EC's
16:16.25A0Shedshello
16:16.25mnemoc8/16 bits is dead, long life to armv7-m :D
16:16.30A0Shedsyeah
16:16.49specingmnemoc: 8/16 bits is not dead
16:16.57mnemocneither is cobol
16:17.04specingmnemoc: just look at AVRs/PICs/MSP430s
16:17.05A0Shedslkcl: we spoke with the RTEMS group, I'm rewriting the student proposal for the final approval
16:17.24lkcloh wait - someone's already done rtems for stm32f?  or has done openec for stm32f?
16:17.31lkclA0Sheds: yay good stuff.
16:17.33specingI have the 16bit MSP430 launchpad devboard here (costs 4Euro) :D
16:17.42A0Shedsyeah, he just sent the patch for snt32f in that past day  :)
16:17.55A0Shedsso now all we have to do is write drivers
16:18.31A0Shedsand also work with tinyRTEMS to fit it into smaller devices with 4k-32K of RAM
16:18.46lkclsuperb.
16:19.06lkclyeah i saw the confusion on rtems about whether rtems would fit into small-ram devices
16:19.10A0Shedsnow we can get down to work
16:19.16lkclthumbs-up :)
16:19.49A0Shedsthat dev just wasn't aware of the previous work on tinyRTEMS down to 4K RAM devices
16:19.55A0Sheds32k would have killed it
16:20.13A0Shedsends up that POSIX support is like 24K alone
16:20.35A0Shedsso 32K - 24K = 8K device as it is
16:20.55traeakposix is overrated though
16:21.02A0ShedsUSB and networks stacks suck up the RAM
16:21.14A0ShedsSPI is tiny
16:21.45A0Shedsso the price sensitive low cost products can use the <$1 stm32's
16:21.50specingMy average RAM consumption with AVRs is like 40 bytes
16:22.33A0Shedscan your AVR's playback stereo audio and charge a battery at the same time, while scanning a keyboard?
16:22.55A0Shedsthats why we are using stm32
16:23.17traeaka full computer 10+ years ago
16:24.16A0Shedsi wish the power manager IC from allwinner had a micro in it we could use
16:25.30A0ShedsPOSIX is there if somebody needs it
16:25.48specingA0Sheds: It can charge a battery and scan the keyboard; and if by audio you mean 8bit, then yes
16:25.52A0ShedsRTEMS has probably the fullest support for any standards
16:26.40specingIsn't audio handled by the A10?
16:26.41A0Shedsunfortunately 16b audio, 2 channels and at least at 44.1K/sec
16:27.16A0Shedsthere is an audio out on the card opposite the 68 pin connector
16:27.40specingSo why are we talking about handling audio on the micro?
16:28.27mnemocnot all eoma68 modules will have an output plug
16:29.08A0Shedshttp://elinux.org/Embedded_Open_Modular_Architecture/EOMA-68#Table_of_EOMA-68_pinouts
16:30.26A0Shedsan OEM version of the card might only have the 68 pin connector
16:31.35A0Shedsspecing: what are the AVR prices down to?
16:34.14specingThey are actually quite expensive
16:34.16penguin42notes binutil's libopcodes ARM disassembler has an interesting artifact in it's force-thumb option; if you call it once with force-thumb and then again without any option it sticks in force-thumb
16:34.21specinglook into 16-bit MSP430's
16:34.25lkclspecing: ahh yep, mnemoc's got it :)
16:34.32specingthey go down to 0.2$
16:35.24lkclbasically, any audio on any particular CPU will have to be used to go out on the edge of the EOMA68 card
16:35.54lkclwhich makes for a pretty f****g useless laptop, for example, as it would not have any speakers
16:35.56A0Shedsand we need a common platform to replace legacy EC firmware
16:36.17specingAh ok
16:36.20lkcli thought about using USB Audio, but the cost of those ICs is about... $1.50!
16:36.32A0Shedsstm32 covers simple 48 pin devices to devices with LCD and ethernet controllers
16:36.43lkclin other words, for the cost of a USB audio IC you can get... ooo... an entire CPU?
16:36.47A0Shedssame codebase and it's low cost
16:36.50specingWell if you ever need just charging and keyboard scanning, msp is the way to go
16:36.58A0Shedsif AVR could do it, I'd be there
16:37.04lkclspecing: that's good to know.
16:37.11mnemocthere is a huge gain in resources, speed and ease of development in those 0.8$ of IC cost difference
16:37.19A0Shedsbut we need common code to support
16:37.48A0Shedsan OEM wants to just copy and paste and sell things
16:38.15A0Shedscodig is NOT what they want, it's what they want to AVOID
16:38.56specinglooks at his battery charger... I think it is charged..
16:39.53A0Shedsalso gets us away from 8 and 16 bit micros
16:40.49A0Shedssomebody is going to get RTEMS going on the A10 as well
16:41.00lkclA0Sheds: cool!
16:41.02A0Shedsembedded industrial control
16:41.33A0Shedsalready works on x86
16:42.06A0Shedsso the AMD APU eoma68 card will have support out of the box
16:42.29A0ShedsI am trying to find a vendor we can share booth space with at Computex
16:42.42A0Shedsthe entire show has been sold out, it's amazing
16:43.16A0Shedsthey even built new football field size building a few years ago and it's not enough
16:43.25A0Sheds3 floors
16:46.58mnemocand this f* country with over 20% of unemployment and raising...
16:47.14traeakwhich country is that ?
16:47.29mnemoc.es
16:48.06A0Shedssame in the US, they stop counting people that gave up looking so the official count stays at ~12%
16:48.06mnemoc23.6% in feb
16:48.22A0Shedsbut it's ~20%
16:49.12mnemocour 23.6% is the official one without counting people been trained to improve their employability or those having microjobs
16:49.38A0Shedswhen will people get fed up and do something about it?
16:49.53A0Shedsthats the real question, they don't really seem to mind
16:59.41specingI think humanity should strive to reach 100% unemployment
17:00.46traeakhehe
17:01.16traeakto some degree we hvae....most jobs have nothing to do with survival
17:02.08mnemocspecially no the jobs of those who come to irc
17:07.49A0Shedsreally? the more I type the more freenode drops seeds out of the slot
17:11.25mnemocmy keyboard drops breadcrumbs if i shake it.... probably enough to feed a bird for some days
17:12.06mnemocshould clean it up soon
17:12.32madsleepyou see? survival
17:12.39madsleepyou can live on those drops for some time
17:13.01MaDMaLKaVwho said we computer guyscan't survive like macho men?
17:13.13mnemoc:D
17:14.30penguin42my keyboard evolved on the chocolate crumbs and beard and starts inserting it's own sentences
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18:13.16CIA-91rhombus-tech: dima master * re67674551933 /allwinner_a10/orders/Quantity:_1-2.mdwn:
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21:32.51CIA-91rhombus-tech: Robert master * r4450680eb970 /allwinner_a10/orders/Schumacher7.mdwn:
21:33.28CIA-91rhombus-tech: Robert master * r0d7d9a2217d4 /allwinner_a10/orders/Schumacher7.mdwn:
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