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| 07:20.36 | CIA-91 | rhombus-tech: Peter master * r3d4add5b9489 /allwinner_a10/orders/not_valid/mymugle.mdwn: |
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| 09:04.21 | hno | toxicpsion, yes, 3.3V TTL. |
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| 09:21.16 | CIA-91 | rhombus-tech: Imre_Sandor master * r96a0e7e396e3 /allwinner_a10/orders/isandor.mdwn: |
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| 12:47.17 | specing | hno: TTL is 5V! |
| 12:47.25 | specing | 3.3V is CMOS |
| 12:56.37 | A2Sheds | almost, CMOS may be whatever levels it's designed for 1.8V, 3V, 3.3V, 5V etc etc, the difference between CMOS and TTL in the context of the uart signal levels are the levels and range the 0's and 1's and what the gap is in between them is |
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| 14:01.21 | lkcl_ | A2Sheds: ping |
| 14:01.53 | A2Sheds | pong |
| 14:02.26 | lkcl | hiya. would you be able/willing to put the VGA signals out onto a separate small (unpopulated) expansion header? |
| 14:03.44 | lkcl | whaddyathink - easy? |
| 14:03.49 | A2Sheds | we should just bring out any unused signals at least out to pads |
| 14:03.59 | lkcl | ok. yeah that works. |
| 14:04.27 | mnemoc | for hugo meneses's computer? :) |
| 14:04.35 | A2Sheds | anything muxed is already out, and you're on your own to ask for a custom respin or make a dongle (tm) |
| 14:05.11 | A2Sheds | pads that make sense like a 1mm pitch row of pads or similar |
| 14:06.10 | lkcl | yes. |
| 14:12.02 | lkcl | btw A2Sheds do you have enough info now to get ellen a BOM, so her team can do costings? |
| 14:12.22 | A2Sheds | I'm going over everything in the next few days |
| 14:12.49 | A2Sheds | trying to catch up on everything |
| 14:12.50 | lkcl | we're getting quite a few enquiries for 10k and 100k units - some suppliers to a school in austria for example |
| 14:12.53 | lkcl | :) |
| 14:12.54 | lkcl | ahh fuun |
| 14:12.57 | A2Sheds | yes |
| 14:13.12 | A2Sheds | it looks like we have everything |
| 14:13.37 | A2Sheds | the metal shell needs some mods |
| 14:13.55 | A2Sheds | the plastic frame for the cards need mods to the tooling |
| 14:14.21 | A2Sheds | after i make the models, they can look at my suggestions for modifying the tools |
| 14:21.16 | A2Sheds | I'm posting pics of the shell ....... |
| 14:23.59 | A2Sheds | http://imagebin.org/204644 |
| 14:24.23 | A2Sheds | the shell has two tabs that lock into the plastic frame, they have to be relocated |
| 14:26.32 | A2Sheds | http://imagebin.org/204646 |
| 14:27.22 | CIA-91 | rhombus-tech: Peter master * r7c8b16d83e78 /allwinner_a10/orders/p.steenbergen__64__j1nx.nl.mdwn: |
| 14:29.26 | A2Sheds | http://imagebin.org/204648 |
| 14:31.50 | A2Sheds | http://imagebin.org/204649 |
| 14:41.17 | A2Sheds | http://imagebin.org/204650 |
| 14:42.47 | A2Sheds | http://imagebin.org/204651 |
| 15:28.08 | hno | specing, I know TTL is 5V, but in the context of serial cables the terminology is simplified to use TTL for all voltage levels <= 5V, meaning gate logic level and not RS232 level normally used for serial ports. |
| 15:29.08 | specing | Why can't you just say "3.3V" and be done with it? |
| 15:56.34 | lkcl | specing: it's important that every CPU card can talk to every I/O board. there are certain digital communications standards, even for simple digital I/O, that really do have to be met on both sides. |
| 15:56.55 | lkcl | A2Sheds: superb. |
| 15:57.52 | lkcl | A2Sheds: btw, if you can get some sort of 3D or even a PCB screenshot that i can slap up on the web site that would allow us to do another news release, and also i could answer some questions i'm getting. |
| 15:58.11 | lkcl | people want to see "boards". an image of the PCB is about the next best thing. |
| 16:00.01 | specing | lkcl: Yes, and they are 1) voltage 2) frequency 3) signal shape |
| 16:00.17 | specing | TTL only names (1) |
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| 17:34.59 | CIA-91 | rhombus-tech: Daniel master * r80db4c6ae2da /allwinner_a10/orders/danielfilipe.mo.mdwn: |
| 17:42.32 | lkcl | specing: that's why i made a more specific description on the EOMA-68 specification page |
| 17:50.04 | lkcl | A2Sheds: how many layers is the PCB you're doing? |
| 17:50.11 | lkcl | is it 4 or is it 6? |
| 17:58.57 | mnemoc | lkcl: have you thought about giving eoma it's own home/wiki separated from rhmbus tech, OEMs, prices and orders? |
| 18:05.05 | lkcl | yeahh. we have a domain qimod.com for that. |
| 18:05.43 | lkcl | but what we're probably going to do is deal with free software developers directly, through rhombus-tech |
| 18:06.00 | mnemoc | what f() turns "eoma" into "qimod" ? :) |
| 18:06.03 | lkcl | and everyone else (10k orders) we'll refer directly to the factory |
| 18:06.05 | lkcl | :) |
| 18:06.14 | lkcl | qi -> energy; mod -> module |
| 18:06.14 | mnemoc | :) |
| 18:06.27 | lkcl | it's a chinese thing |
| 18:06.47 | mnemoc | very nice product name |
| 18:21.59 | A2Sheds | 6 layers |
| 18:22.58 | A2Sheds | lkcl: ^ |
| 18:24.30 | zenitraM | has just been offered a scholarship-part-time job at uni on a project related with museum interactivity |
| 18:25.04 | zenitraM | still have to learn more details about the project, but this seems like the perfect scenario for EOMAs with touchscreens everywhere |
| 18:25.07 | mnemoc | btw, DX added a blue nokia n90/meego phone to their catalog today |
| 18:26.09 | mnemoc | zenitraM: I told you to make an startup :) |
| 18:27.09 | zenitraM | mnemoc: as soon as i earn enough monies to start something :) |
| 18:27.38 | mnemoc | doesn't ICO have money for that? |
| 18:27.53 | zenitraM | i also have to finish the degree and stuff :P |
| 18:28.45 | zenitraM | i was told something about android tablets. so i'm not sure about what they exactly want |
| 18:29.36 | zenitraM | but probably even eoma + simple touchscreen for displays embedded in museums, even if running android, is the cheapest solution. or even in more places |
| 18:35.39 | lkcl | A2Sheds: taaaaa |
| 18:35.56 | lkcl | zenitraM: cool |
| 19:05.02 | A2Sheds | any idea what application Baybal Ni is asking about with the edge connectors? He's just asking something like " Is it better with onions?" better with what?? |
| 19:14.03 | mnemoc | might it be to connect the eom68 connector to an io board standing above? |
| 19:15.28 | mnemoc | but I suppose a ribbon cable would do better |
| 19:17.11 | mnemoc | or other more modern flat flexible multiwire cable |
| 19:29.23 | A2Sheds | "Board connector" why did I even bother asking? :) |
| 19:32.17 | mnemoc | doh |
| 19:52.14 | CIA-91 | rhombus-tech: master * r9bdd76116dc0 /allwinner_a10/orders/aleks.mdwn: |
| 20:12.17 | lkcl | it's to do an alternative to EOMA-68 |
| 20:12.43 | lkcl | that's cheaper, on account of using a (shield-protected) edge connector for the CPU card |
| 20:13.54 | CIA-91 | rhombus-tech: lkcl master * ra66490c1543f /: Merge branch 'master' of ssh://git.hands.com/rhombus |
| 20:14.01 | CIA-91 | rhombus-tech: lkcl master * rfd4b084c974e /: Merge branch 'master' of ssh://git.hands.com/rhombus |
| 20:14.02 | CIA-91 | rhombus-tech: lkcl master * rcb227a7819ea /allwinner_a10/orders/ (4 files in 2 dirs): order update, now valid |
| 20:14.02 | CIA-91 | rhombus-tech: lkcl master * r3b37ea381ca6 /allwinner_a10/orders/ (aleks.mdwn danielfilipe.mo.mdwn): add qty 1 to preorder for order processing cleanup |
| 20:28.37 | mnemoc | it's kind of sad to see alternatives ot eoma-68 been designed and plans to (ab)use eoma-68 cards in not standard ways even before the first eoma-68 card reaches the factory :-/ |
| 20:34.50 | A2Sheds | for high volume and not going to be removed applications it's even cheaper to just have solder pads on the edge of the board |
| 20:35.21 | A2Sheds | solder in place and you're done, nearly zero cost connections |
| 20:37.10 | A2Sheds | but in reality, with the money saved by just using the high volume version with the connector you ca easily afford the 68-pin mating connector |
| 20:37.47 | A2Sheds | I can tell right away when these questions come up, they aren't high volume applications.... it's mostly hot air |
| 21:22.38 | *** join/#arm-netbook ibot (~ibot@rikers.org) |
| 21:22.38 | *** topic/#arm-netbook is EOMA: Embedded Open Modular Architecture - Don't ask to ask. Just ask! - http://elinux.org/Embedded_Open_Modular_Architecture/EOMA-68 - ML arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk - Logs http://ibot.rikers.org/%23arm-netbook - http://rhombus-tech.net/ |
| 21:58.10 | lkcl | mnemoc: really? |
| 21:58.14 | lkcl | where |
| 21:58.37 | lkcl | mnemoc: i need to know where, to track them, in case of patent infringment |
| 22:18.07 | *** join/#arm-netbook mnemoc (~amery@shell.opensde.net) |
| 22:18.20 | mnemoc | meh :( |
| 22:18.45 | mnemoc | 22:57:51 < lkcl> mnemoc: i need to know where, to track them, in case of patent infringment |
| 22:18.48 | mnemoc | 23:13:00 < mnemoc> lkcl: yourself |
| 22:18.51 | mnemoc | 23:13:57 < mnemoc> 21:11:29 < lkcl> it's to do an alternative to EOMA-68 |
| 22:18.53 | mnemoc | 23:14:11 < mnemoc> and the exntesion vga thing |
| 22:18.56 | mnemoc | 23:14:48 < mnemoc> gives the impression that the author of the standard doesn't really believe on it |
| 22:18.59 | mnemoc | 23:15:28 < mnemoc> sure business are business and $reality$ has to be faced |
| 22:19.01 | mnemoc | 23:16:59 < mnemoc> but to promote an standard it has to be embarrassed strongly |
| 22:25.36 | lkcl | mnemoc: que? oh. yeah, no problem: that's just putting an extra connector (or pads) on the CPU card. |
| 22:25.45 | lkcl | absolutely nothing to do with the EOMA-68 standard. |
| 22:26.23 | lkcl | if people want to buy EOMA-68 CPU cards and *not* make them user-installable i'm not going to turn their money away |
| 22:26.35 | lkcl | am i? :) |
| 22:27.04 | lkcl | it's *their* problem if the users go "uhnf?? a card that we can't remove??" |
| 22:27.07 | lkcl | they'll soon learn... |
| 22:27.24 | lkcl | .... and by then will have a good (well-established) customer-base |
| 22:27.34 | lkcl | whom they will then need to listen to (or not) |
| 22:28.09 | lkcl | and will go "ahh, can we please have the next batch entirely EOMA-68 compliant please, and could someone help make an EOMA-68-compliant I/O board?" |
| 22:28.37 | lkcl | that's the theory anyway. |
| 22:28.42 | lkcl | but even *without* that |
| 22:29.00 | lkcl | an order for 5,000 units that ends up being factory-installed |
| 22:29.20 | mnemoc | this is actually the reason why I had asked you to visually try to separate the dream of eoma(68) of rhombus-tech business |
| 22:29.21 | lkcl | means that people who *do* want to use it for EOMA-68-compliant purposes get a better rate due to bulk buying pouwer |
| 22:29.22 | lkcl | don't they |
| 22:29.28 | lkcl | naah. |
| 22:29.36 | lkcl | it's not separate |
| 22:29.59 | lkcl | it's not separate at all. |
| 22:30.15 | lkcl | any EOMA-68 card serves *two* (actually, more) purposes. |
| 22:30.35 | lkcl | 1) factory-installation only (N connectors, N pads, N soldered wires) |
| 22:30.50 | lkcl | 2) mass-volume user-removable purposes |
| 22:30.57 | lkcl | one benefits from the other. |
| 22:32.51 | mnemoc | from a rhombus tech perspective the "qimod" product has that advantage, yes.... but imho it weakens the soul of the standard and it's promosion |
| 22:33.33 | mnemoc | extensions has always been what most harms standarizations |
| 22:33.55 | mnemoc | vendor specific off-standard "features"... that lock in |
| 22:34.19 | mnemoc | while the standard tried to make the oposite |
| 22:35.47 | mnemoc | if rhombustech reuses the PCBs, factory time, etc in making other products, it's fine and good |
| 22:36.47 | mnemoc | but as eoma and rhombustech are shown together the first looses it's sense of been |
| 22:37.03 | mnemoc | proven to not be enough for the $real$ world |
| 22:38.00 | mnemoc | but I'm probably wrong trying to see EOMA68 separated from the economic goals of it's parent |
| 22:38.30 | mnemoc | to me standards aim for a "greater good" |
| 22:42.23 | mnemoc | too much ranting anyway |
| 23:05.22 | MaDMaLKaV | got my mele, and not time to even connect it, too much work :/ |
| 23:05.28 | MaDMaLKaV | hope I can start working on it this weekend |
| 23:06.31 | MaDMaLKaV | and that will be a massice amount of work. I want it running XBMC, and I'm far for being currently prepared for that task. I think just making a TODO list will take all the weekend XD |
| 23:10.59 | lkcl | mnemoc: the idea is to make money, but do so in an honest and open fashion, offering free software developers the opportunity to get their teeth into a meaningful project that actually gets real hardware to real people |
| 23:11.26 | lkcl | the EOMA standards are merely a means to that end |
| 23:15.28 | MaDMaLKaV | nite all |
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