| 01:39.10 | *** join/#arm-netbook hipboi (~hipboi@221.4.213.95) |
| 01:40.56 | hipboi | i just see some new pictures in http://rhombus-tech.net/ |
| 01:41.01 | hipboi | good |
| 01:53.05 | eduprey | lol "what if it's a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" |
| 02:33.34 | A2Sheds | http://i.usatoday.net/news/opinion/cartoons/2009/December/e091207_pett.jpg yeah, it's one of my favorites |
| 02:39.00 | hipboi | : ) |
| 02:39.15 | eduprey | A2Sheds: how would one use pre-existing laptop casework as mentioned on the community ideas page? do these factories already have cases they're injection molding that they can just make more units for you? |
| 02:41.02 | A2Sheds | they do, we can modify many of their current molds to work with an EOMA68 card |
| 02:42.02 | eduprey | wants an EOMA68 laptop/ netbook in the not too distant future |
| 02:42.16 | A2Sheds | it will happen |
| 02:42.48 | A2Sheds | I've been keeping a short list of vendors that we can work with |
| 02:43.11 | A2Sheds | I check around each year at Computex Taipei as well |
| 02:46.02 | A2Sheds | you could probably print one as well |
| 02:56.21 | eduprey | A2Sheds: oooh that's an idea |
| 02:57.13 | eduprey | with your average 200x200 reprap build area some pieces will have to be multiple parts but yeah why not |
| 02:57.27 | eduprey | (mm) |
| 03:02.00 | A2Sheds | a photopolymer printer could handle it |
| 03:04.33 | eduprey | A2Sheds: and .... we just happen to be working on one of those :) |
| 03:04.55 | eduprey | killer app |
| 03:05.00 | A2Sheds | there's a method to this madness |
| 03:11.21 | eduprey | diy netbook sounds like an awesome project too.. let's see, LCD screen, some kind of spare parts laptop keyboard from an existing model, battery, some kind of charging circuit w/ fuel guage and a barrel connector, keyboard encoder, some connectors, doesn't sound too rough |
| 03:15.37 | A2Sheds | heh, well you could, having a laser scanner to recreate a 3d model to modify would also be handy |
| 03:19.00 | eduprey | A2Sheds: ah yeah, dead laptop? just 3d scan it and change the inside around to accomodate the EOMA68 stuff |
| 03:20.06 | eduprey | or if you have a working laptop and can get spare parts for its LCD and keyboard, clone it |
| 03:21.35 | eduprey | A2Sheds: I really think fast larger format 3d printing is going to be a big game changer |
| 03:23.50 | A2Sheds | netbooks are cheap and easy to make with injection molding |
| 03:24.34 | A2Sheds | but i expect to see some pretty funky 3dp designs later this year |
| 03:25.36 | A2Sheds | if you have the 3d models for the various parts, eoma68, connectors, LCD, HD you could design your own enclosure |
| 03:25.58 | A2Sheds | and then 3dp it |
| 05:56.40 | hipboi | mnemoc: hi |
| 08:09.21 | mnemoc | mehm he left :( |
| 08:15.19 | *** join/#arm-netbook hipboi (~hipboi@221.4.213.95) |
| 08:21.17 | hipboi | mnemoc: i've seen a lot of changes in your github allwinner kernel tree |
| 08:21.58 | hipboi | mnemoc: i was wondering what's your plan for the kernel |
| 08:22.22 | mnemoc | hipboi: not many "changes" actually |
| 08:22.44 | hipboi | mnemoc: i see more branches |
| 08:23.04 | mnemoc | hipboi: https://github.com/amery/linux-allwinner/wiki/Branches-Explained |
| 08:23.18 | hipboi | mnemoc: yeah, i read this |
| 08:25.14 | mnemoc | hipboi: I have two goals, mainlining sun4i support and sharing a base with you :) |
| 08:26.36 | mnemoc | hipboi: commits there are sanitized (removed ^Ms, trailing whitespace and most chinese encodings converted to utf8) but indentation or code is mostly untouched |
| 08:27.46 | mnemoc | as you said you are porting it to 3.0.8 I used the same as interim stage toward master |
| 08:28.50 | mnemoc | but I still miss some changes from 2.6.36 in 3.0... and runtime testing |
| 08:30.19 | hipboi | mnemoc: i see.. |
| 08:32.05 | mnemoc | hipboi: http://dpaste.com/695936/ <--- this are the commits in allwinner-v2.6.36-android that didn't make me confortable when porting them to 3.0 |
| 08:32.30 | mnemoc | instead of doing blind "merges" as you do in your tree I prefer rebase and cherry-pick |
| 08:33.20 | mnemoc | hipboi: the commit about the machine id you commented on github is also... complex |
| 08:33.53 | mnemoc | hipboi: mostly because you are using numbers which are assigned to other machines |
| 08:34.06 | hipboi | mnemoc: sorry, it's not clear |
| 08:34.18 | mnemoc | hipboi: what part? |
| 08:34.37 | hipboi | the comment about the machine id |
| 08:34.48 | mnemoc | https://github.com/amery/linux-allwinner/commit/9aae53f907709010497ac6db7338786cb0c1fbe6 |
| 08:34.55 | mnemoc | this change |
| 08:35.48 | mnemoc | 3063 and 3064 are assigned upstream to RDSTOR and USDLOADER |
| 08:36.36 | mnemoc | so if we adopt a new number bootloaders need to be updated, and that smells like a problem to current devices |
| 08:37.29 | hipboi | we have our machine id for sun4i, right? |
| 08:37.30 | mnemoc | in that change I understand the first chunk of asm, but not the second :-/ |
| 08:37.42 | mnemoc | hipboi: no, we don't |
| 08:39.32 | mnemoc | luke registered some random junk under the name of "lychee" (note the 'y')... but that's useless |
| 08:40.15 | mnemoc | lichee_sun4i_devbdMACH_LICHEE_SUN4I_DEVBDLICHEE_SUN4I_DEVBD3931 |
| 08:40.27 | mnemoc | the 'y' is corrected now |
| 08:40.47 | mnemoc | but still the wrong MACJ |
| 08:40.49 | mnemoc | MACH |
| 08:46.12 | hipboi | mnemoc: i just checked the history of head.s |
| 08:46.46 | hipboi | the second chunk of asm is nothing todo with the machine id |
| 08:47.08 | mnemoc | i had that idea, yes |
| 08:47.10 | hipboi | it's for reversed memory |
| 08:47.36 | mnemoc | in 3.0 that goes messier as they added more code there |
| 08:47.42 | mnemoc | https://github.com/amery/linux-allwinner/commit/889956c523a13c2266d9e8ed38d2a723e37f8089 |
| 08:48.06 | mnemoc | hipboi: any idea where to move that chunk? |
| 08:48.19 | mnemoc | hipboi: we can't leave it in head.S |
| 08:56.39 | mnemoc | https://github.com/amery/linux-allwinner/commit/00d1283aa1f444d4383d213d86bb28350e895ded <--- this needs to be "relocated" too |
| 08:58.22 | hipboi | yes |
| 09:02.36 | hipboi | ok, i checked with my workmate |
| 09:03.03 | hipboi | it's maps the memory of the sys_config |
| 09:03.22 | eduprey | wills the factories to start running again so he can have an a10 board to hack on this stuff. :) |
| 09:03.58 | hipboi | at the 48MiB offset of 0x40000000 |
| 09:08.11 | hipboi | mnemoc: i think we should finally remove these stuff |
| 09:08.32 | mnemoc | hipboi: it's pure evil :) |
| 09:08.47 | mnemoc | hipboi: but it needs to be done somewhere |
| 09:12.18 | hipboi | mnemoc: yes |
| 09:13.00 | hipboi | mnemoc: i see the discussion in the ML about Universal Breakout Board |
| 09:13.26 | hipboi | it's similar to the debug board we use |
| 09:13.30 | hipboi | http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/UBB |
| 09:14.00 | hipboi | i was wondering if you have any debug tools to test the kernel |
| 09:14.13 | mnemoc | :( |
| 09:15.47 | hipboi | have you got the a10 kit? |
| 09:16.24 | mnemoc | nope, never got an answer from wits-whatever |
| 09:16.47 | mnemoc | it seems the idea of selling to a person complicates them |
| 09:17.58 | mnemoc | luke was trying to coordinate getting 5 in person but it seems it didn't work out either |
| 09:18.14 | hipboi | why? |
| 09:18.34 | mnemoc | no idea |
| 09:18.41 | hipboi | let me ask eva |
| 09:19.45 | *** mode/#arm-netbook [-o mnemoc] by mnemoc |
| 09:20.27 | hipboi | lkcl: anything about the a10 dev kits? |
| 09:22.37 | mnemoc | hipboi: in a mail he said he hasn't pushed them for an answer because he actually prefers us spending those $250 in EOMA cards (understandable) |
| 09:23.08 | mnemoc | but who knows how long will that take... |
| 09:23.12 | lkcl | we discussed it on-list: alexandre's answer was the most illustrative - he wondered why, when we're helping allwinnertech to move into alternative markets, that _we_ are paying _them_? |
| 09:23.28 | lkcl | so i put that to eva: she asked the upper management, but they didn't buy it. |
| 09:24.37 | lkcl | so... yeah, i'm reluctant to be part of helping 4-5 engineers spend their money _especially_ when that money could go towards EOMA cards... |
| 09:24.52 | lkcl | and also when there are cheap tablets about for $100 that would do the same job! |
| 09:24.53 | mnemoc | lkcl: have an estimated date for the first batch of eoma68 a10 cards? |
| 09:25.08 | lkcl | mnemoc: chinese new year, remember? :) |
| 09:25.08 | mnemoc | lkcl: a tablet does NOT do the job of a devkit |
| 09:25.24 | lkcl | mnemoc: okok :) |
| 09:26.48 | mnemoc | lkcl: afaik the spring festival is already over :) |
| 09:27.05 | mnemoc | hipboi: btw, I hope you had a very nice week with your family! |
| 09:27.23 | hipboi | mnemoc: yeah, thank you |
| 09:28.21 | lkcl | mnemoc: ok, convince me - in strategic terms which help the goal of making eoma successful. |
| 09:29.01 | mnemoc | lkcl: convince you about what? |
| 09:29.15 | eduprey | mnemoc: if you can tear apart a tablet and solder pins to the tablet... where's your sense of adventure? :) |
| 09:29.27 | mnemoc | i can't solder |
| 09:29.31 | lkcl | and (apart from anything now that everyone's back) i'll arrange facilitating a devkit |
| 09:29.37 | eduprey | err solder tiny magnet wire :) |
| 09:30.38 | lkcl | i've worked with 9 maybe 10 embedded devices and never had to do any soldering |
| 09:30.42 | eduprey | lkcl: does it really make sense? I mean how far out are actual EOMA68 a10 cards? |
| 09:31.20 | mnemoc | lkcl: devkits comes with serial ports ready to use, tablets don't :) |
| 09:32.04 | eduprey | lkcl: IMO if you have usb OTG and can get past the early printk's you can use usb serial and be off to the races for serial based debug, that's how we did the nook color thing |
| 09:32.58 | eduprey | but actually one of the devs had remuxed the UART pins out to the usb connector to get us that far |
| 09:33.02 | lkcl | eduprey: it really shouldn't take long, *if* the wits-tech stuff was useable *sigh* but bari's been taking a look at it, and there's some quirks that have to be dealt with |
| 09:33.59 | mnemoc | loves boards where the OTG is connected to an internal hub exporting jtag and uart too |
| 09:35.10 | mnemoc | hipboi: is it possible for you to document the booting from sd card *without* PhoenixCard or any other windows app? |
| 09:37.56 | eduprey | lkcl: still a few weeks out from actual EOMA hardware to develop on though? |
| 09:38.26 | lkcl | basically yeah |
| 09:39.40 | hipboi | mnemoc: yes, i think i can document it |
| 09:40.10 | mnemoc | hipboi: that would be really awesome |
| 09:40.22 | mnemoc | lkcl: any estimation of when? |
| 09:40.47 | lkcl | mnemoc: chinese new year. there's been *no* communication for 3 weeks, from *anyone*. |
| 09:41.06 | lkcl | they're all only just back. |
| 09:42.50 | mnemoc | :) |
| 09:43.21 | lkcl | jumps up and down |
| 09:43.43 | eduprey | hmm moonpad a710 $115 shipped |
| 09:46.28 | mnemoc | eduprey: that's actually ma,ed aura ly-f1. I have that one |
| 09:47.47 | eduprey | shipped from china though .. slow |
| 09:49.42 | mnemoc | eduprey: http://www.lyxfsz.com/cn/products_view.htm?id=24 <--- real home |
| 09:50.34 | eduprey | mnemoc: hmm, what's the best way to buy one cheaply in US or shipped to US? |
| 09:51.25 | mnemoc | eduprey: I always buy directly from cn/hk/tw... shipping using regular registered airmail |
| 09:52.40 | eduprey | ok but my chinese sucks |
| 09:52.48 | eduprey | like, I have none |
| 09:53.21 | eduprey | how did you buy one? |
| 09:53.47 | mnemoc | I bought mine from tomtop.com ... but currently myefox.com has several a10-based models |
| 09:54.15 | mnemoc | one even with a a sexy IPS 9.7" display |
| 09:56.21 | mnemoc | http://www.myefox.com/benss-a10-android-2-3-tablet-pc9-7-inch-ips-capacitive-touch-screen-build-in-gps-dual-carema-ultrathin-p-323174 |
| 09:57.59 | mnemoc | and http://www.myefox.com/icoo-d90w-a10-ultrathin-android-4-0-tablet-pc9-7-inch-capacitive-screen-dual-camera-p-323119 |
| 09:58.34 | mnemoc | the second comes with android 4.0 |
| 09:58.48 | mnemoc | and 1GB of ram |
| 09:59.32 | eduprey | LOL 80186 for four euro http://wiki.eth-0.nl/images/4/4b/Beckboard.jpg |
| 10:00.07 | eduprey | mnemoc: nice re the 1gig one |
| 10:00.45 | mnemoc | eduprey: if i wouldn't have one already I would buy that one |
| 10:03.56 | mnemoc | it totally worths the $260 ... and been a new customer you get a $50 discount coupon iirc |
| 10:10.13 | mnemoc | hipboi: beside the language problem I obviusly have with phoenixcard... I don't have any machine with windows to install it in :-/ that's why been able to prepare the SDs myself would be really really awesome to actually start testing/playing with kernel changes and running linux on the tablet without harming my daughters' games :p |
| 10:11.04 | eduprey | mnemoc: virtualbox, one of the free microsoft XP images convertible from VHD format and a USB connectible SD writer? |
| 10:12.14 | mnemoc | eduprey: I dind't know you can pass "raw" usb devices to those emulators |
| 10:13.05 | eduprey | mnemoc: yep, basically just a pull down menu in vbox to make it grab a USB device and map it as if physically connected to the VM |
| 10:13.24 | mnemoc | nice indeed |
| 10:13.41 | eduprey | we're definitely going to have to reverse engineer these tools and make open versions |
| 10:14.12 | mnemoc | specially the sys_config.fex compiler |
| 10:15.30 | mnemoc | eduprey: when you say "free microsoft xp" image you mean they are really legally free to grab from somewhere? |
| 10:15.39 | eduprey | mnemoc: yeah, let me see where that was |
| 10:16.14 | eduprey | they self destruct after some number of days but works in a pinch |
| 10:16.45 | eduprey | http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=11575 |
| 10:17.09 | eduprey | winrar extracts the exe IIRC |
| 10:18.30 | mnemoc | winrar :) ... /me downloading xp's |
| 10:19.34 | eduprey | heh err unrar I mean to say, lol |
| 10:20.15 | eduprey | this may also be helpful http://r0b0tz.com/2011/02/using-microsofts-ie6-ie7-ie8-vhd-virtual-pc-images-with-virtualbox/ |
| 10:21.46 | eduprey | some stupid activation thing and how to get past it |
| 10:22.06 | eduprey | some difference between virtualpc and virtualbox |
| 10:22.35 | mnemoc | i'm hoping they can be converted for kvm |
| 10:24.52 | mnemoc | oh, it's a .iso installer image |
| 10:27.05 | eduprey | eh, should be VHD virtual disks |
| 10:27.29 | mnemoc | ETA 5m |
| 10:34.08 | eduprey | mnemoc: ever heard of any a10 phones yet? (I guess they'd have to be running a separate baseband) |
| 10:37.14 | mnemoc | considering the A10 comes with a GPL violating gps driver not sure how far they can go on that field |
| 10:39.42 | mnemoc | I suppose the cdma/etc/etc IC would also provide gps |
| 10:47.46 | mnemoc | Windows\ XP.qcow2 ready :) |
| 11:09.19 | mnemoc | meh, qemu thinks it's not bootable :< |
| 11:41.21 | lkcl | if someone _can_ create "prepared" sd cards on an on-demand basis then we have a starting-point for reverse-engineering |
| 11:48.37 | mnemoc | yup |
| 11:51.08 | *** join/#arm-netbook gordan (~gordan@178.102.228.182) |
| 11:58.21 | mnemoc | Windows XP.vhd converted to qcow2 isn't functional on my qemu, vmdk is... but ends in a blue screen of death :-/ |
| 12:44.59 | ManoftheSea | I also am trying to throw money at the screen when lkcl's name shows up, but NOTHING'S HAPPENING |
| 12:45.12 | *** mode/#arm-netbook [+oo mnemoc gordan] by ManoftheSea |
| 13:28.34 | mnemoc | don't try with coins |
| 13:50.22 | A2Sheds | how dare that factory stop work right when we need boards! |
| 14:19.57 | gordan | Huh? What happened? What did I miss? |
| 14:22.17 | mnemoc | gordan: my fault, I asked about an estimation for the first batch of eoma68 a10 cards |
| 14:22.38 | gordan | Aaaaaaaand? |
| 14:23.01 | mnemoc | seems forbiden :) |
| 14:23.32 | gordan | Uhhhhh... What?? |
| 14:35.59 | A2Sheds | later this month |
| 14:36.14 | A2Sheds | I've been saying that for a while :) |
| 14:36.22 | gordan | Ah, OK. :) |
| 14:36.48 | A2Sheds | IIRC the actual people with fingers on the parts and boards get back next week |
| 14:37.15 | A2Sheds | management just got back |
| 14:37.51 | A2Sheds | probably 2-3 days of coffee then the real work starts :) |
| 14:38.26 | A2Sheds | many workers go back home to see their kids that they haven't seen in months |
| 14:40.44 | A2Sheds | we just want them to find the best deals on connectors, vs forcing a BOM on them |
| 14:45.33 | A2Sheds | as far as the dev boards go I'm not too surprised, the Chinese have proven to be the true capitalists in it for the long term, after 100K eoma68 cards are out, a few dev boards might be given out gratis for the next gen |
| 14:46.47 | A2Sheds | back in the 80's and 90's I used to get free dev boards form cpu vendors, now not so much. |
| 14:47.05 | gordan | Yeah, tell me about it. |
| 14:47.42 | A2Sheds | nvidia offers the tegra dev boards for $1k, a few other have asked $2-3K for the dev board |
| 14:47.55 | gordan | Which is quite nutty. |
| 14:48.22 | gordan | One of the good reasons to just use Kirkwood, machines based on that practicaly grow on trees. |
| 14:48.28 | gordan | And they are all virtually identical. |
| 14:48.29 | A2Sheds | well what actually happens, is that cos' ask for dev boards and then don't buy anything |
| 14:48.47 | A2Sheds | most can't even get the design working! |
| 14:49.26 | A2Sheds | the ****ing managers don't see the value of having any talented engineers so they hire the cheapest they can find that can design anything that actually works |
| 14:49.48 | A2Sheds | typo: can't design |
| 14:49.55 | gordan | Sounds about right. |
| 14:50.33 | A2Sheds | it's either the 100 monkeys approach or try and fail then pressure the asic vendor to finish your board |
| 14:50.43 | A2Sheds | more like 1000 monkeys |
| 14:52.03 | A2Sheds | the number 1 reason I hear from ARM soc vendors is "we want to be sure we can support you" since some customers can't finish the design on their own |
| 14:55.34 | A2Sheds | most top level managers can't spot a talented engineer or scientist anymore, they just see a degree and use the people with them as a resource |
| 14:58.57 | A2Sheds | maybe we can have cards to show at Cebit? anyone going?? |
| 14:59.27 | A2Sheds | http://www.cebit.de/home |
| 15:00.27 | A2Sheds | it would be neat to have a clear plastic netbook with the eoma68 card |
| 19:09.52 | *** join/#arm-netbook gordan (~gordan@78-86-195-86.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 21:08.25 | eduprey | A2Sheds: based on EOMA68 A10, we could make a really good cheap A10 dev board (at least for the functionality that we are pushing across on the EOMA68 pins) :) |
| 21:09.07 | eduprey | but of course still have to wait for boards to be made in china factory etc |
| 21:09.29 | A2Sheds | sure, something even on 2-layer |
| 21:09.49 | A2Sheds | but products using the cards will soon follow |
| 21:10.35 | eduprey | A2Sheds: I heard there had been some interest, is anyone working on products to use the card? |
| 21:10.38 | A2Sheds | I'll post a dev board as well with all the connectors |
| 21:11.13 | A2Sheds | yes, but things will take off later this month after cards show up |
| 21:13.11 | eduprey | A2Sheds: that is one nice thing about the design, products using the card can be really simply designed and made so don't take a lot of lead time to develop |
| 21:14.07 | A2Sheds | yes, it takes the difficult parts and puts them in a card along with the software |
| 21:15.53 | A2Sheds | that's the part that people don't understand quite well yet, they just see this as another Pi or beagle |
| 21:19.40 | eduprey | A2Sheds: yeah those that are dismissive will get it sooner or later :) |
| 21:24.43 | mnemoc | others simply don't believe an standard would actually work |
| 21:25.44 | eduprey | mnemoc: ah yes, the people who are so pessimistic that they don't try anything? |
| 21:26.22 | mnemoc | eduprey: the TI people I know don't see any future on eoma :-/ |
| 21:27.14 | mnemoc | because companies love to "extend" the standards, making them useless |
| 21:28.49 | mnemoc | it has been done before and has failed miserably |
| 21:29.08 | mnemoc | but I still hope it will work this time :) |
| 21:29.57 | eduprey | yeah, thus the need for it to be open / community based. have we thought about doing some kind of logo / certification / trademark thing? I know it's evil but... |
| 21:31.23 | eduprey | keep non-compliant boards from muddying the waters etc |
| 21:31.56 | eduprey | (well I guess it wouldn't in asia but in the west) |
| 21:32.53 | mnemoc | sadly if you look at our very own ML you'll see people already talking about what to add in non-eoma-complaint modules |
| 21:33.48 | eduprey | well the key is not being able to market them as EOMA. people can hack whatever they want for themselves but products should stick with the standard |
| 21:36.00 | eduprey | fragmentation is really our worst enemy IMO |
| 21:38.28 | lkcl | eduprey: we've got that covered - RH Technology has patented "re-use of legacy connectors, assemblies and housings for mass-volume purposes". |
| 21:39.00 | lkcl | you should see clause 1 (can't until it's published, sorry!) but it's a corker. goes on and on, a single sentence, of about 250 words :) |
| 21:39.19 | lkcl | oh and i'm not sure if it's legitimate or not but the patent's recursive *lol* |
| 21:39.53 | eduprey | lkcl: heh so how does patent licensing work to use real EOMA68 / EOMACF etc? |
| 21:40.31 | mnemoc | doesn't the prior-art of using pcmcia on dvb-t TVs for decrypting channels kills your patent? |
| 21:40.36 | lkcl | very simple - anyone who makes compliant cards, we receive a tiny royalty. |
| 21:41.33 | lkcl | ah - surprisingly no. the patent is very _very_ specific. the device which makes up the whole thing has to have more than one purpose |
| 21:41.52 | lkcl | Conditional Access modules do *not* have more than one purpose. |
| 21:42.00 | mnemoc | ok |
| 21:42.02 | lkcl | it was a near-miss though! |
| 21:42.17 | eduprey | lkcl: but OSS projects and other people not doing it for profit, is there any kind of blanket license? |
| 21:42.18 | lkcl | i freaked out a bit when i found out about CI modules :) |
| 21:42.54 | lkcl | yes - i've asked my associates to put an automatic royalty-free grant on any hardware that is FSF-Endorseable. |
| 21:43.26 | lkcl | which is one of the key reasons why i've been looking so damn hard for FSF-endorseable hardware |
| 21:43.32 | mnemoc | doesn't believe in patents |
| 21:43.53 | mnemoc | what will you use in your wifi modules? |
| 21:44.19 | lkcl | neither do i, mnemoc. but i figured that if i'm going to have to get involved in them, i might as well do a decent job and _really_ fuck with the system. one of the patents effectively says "we invented computer science! yaaaay!" :) |
| 21:44.34 | lkcl | probably off-the-shelf ath2k PCIe modules. |
| 21:44.47 | mnemoc | :) |
| 21:44.50 | eduprey | lkcl: IMO this whole patent worry kind of sucks for people who just want ot hack on things and not sell them and who don't care about FSF |
| 21:44.53 | lkcl | i'm so pleased - relieved - that steve (steve was it?) pointed them out |
| 21:45.22 | eduprey | RMS for all his contributions isn't entirely balanced / sane about all this |
| 21:45.48 | lkcl | *sigh* yeah it's a bitch. i'm a software (libre) developer / activist - i'd like the entire patent system _and_ copyright to just FOAD |
| 21:46.41 | lkcl | but... if the system is there, i'll throw it such a curved ball that it implodes into a black hole. |
| 21:46.50 | mnemoc | but if you want to join an industry you need to work with their rules.... like having a UPS account if you want to buy a f* devkit |
| 21:47.05 | lkcl | *lol* |
| 21:47.49 | eduprey | lkcl: lol |
| 21:49.36 | lkcl | ok i gotta get to sleep, it's sodding cold here. |
| 21:51.45 | mnemoc | good night luke |
| 22:05.18 | A2Sheds | the TI guys have their own agenda, and it's really not about sharing |
| 22:07.03 | eduprey | A2Sheds: should we phear lkcl's associates and the long arm of patent law crushing EOMA based hacking projects? not sure whether i mean to laugh or not :P |
| 22:08.05 | eduprey | I think preventing fragmentation is good but I had been thinking more trademark than patent |
| 22:12.22 | A2Sheds | well, what protection is there even if they didn't have patents? |
| 22:13.10 | eduprey | A2Sheds: well you can ensure noncompliant folks dont use the name EOMA if it's trademarked |
| 22:13.38 | eduprey | patents seem a little scarier especially because they want a license fee |
| 22:15.32 | A2Sheds | what would stop Evil corp from patenting and trademarking eoma anyway? |
| 22:16.00 | A2Sheds | the whole system is designed by lawyers |
| 22:16.45 | eduprey | A2Sheds: prior art on the patent, no one else could patent it now even if you hadn't filed, as soon as published. and trademark, once you register that no one else can either |
| 22:16.48 | A2Sheds | and since our species does not treat the need to control others as a mental illness of personality disorder, what is going to change? |
| 22:17.21 | eduprey | A2Sheds: I just want to make sure that this project is not perpetuating more of the badness and keeping people from using this openly |
| 22:17.33 | A2Sheds | time will tell |
| 22:19.30 | A2Sheds | seems like a lot of trouble to go through to trap hackers |
| 22:20.22 | A2Sheds | and in reality, there are several small form factor "computer on module" standards |
| 22:21.09 | eduprey | A2Sheds: yeah I guess so, we'll see |
| 22:21.24 | A2Sheds | most are for embedded and lower volume |
| 22:22.23 | A2Sheds | it's not their M.O., but TI, Marvell or Samsung could decide to back some small card tomorrow that they control |
| 22:22.45 | A2Sheds | it's just not like them to be interested in small profit margins |
| 22:24.18 | eduprey | A2Sheds: so you're not worried about the rhombus patent thing being misused? |
| 22:25.11 | A2Sheds | not really, look at what happened with reprap |
| 22:27.46 | A2Sheds | reprap didn't trademark the name and now somebody in Germany has reprap.com or the reprap name trademarked there |
| 22:30.32 | A2Sheds | and as far as the eoma68 cards go, they have been fighting to keep products like this off the market |
| 22:32.29 | A2Sheds | they don't care about recycling or waste, they would rather you just lease everything and pay per use, or buy everything X times over |
| 22:35.05 | eduprey | A2Sheds: yeah agree those are significant problems with the system these days |
| 22:35.39 | A2Sheds | eduprey: so they will poo-poo the idea of eoma68 |
| 22:35.58 | A2Sheds | how would eoma68 help TI? |
| 22:36.25 | A2Sheds | they didn't invent it, they don't control it, they would sell less parts |
| 23:03.46 | *** join/#arm-netbook eduprey (~chatzilla@ip70-173-29-15.lv.lv.cox.net) |
| 23:40.16 | *** join/#arm-netbook hipboi (~hipboi@221.4.213.95) |
