IRC log for #arm-netbook on 20120126

00:16.26*** join/#arm-netbook gordan (~gordan@78-86-195-86.zone2.bethere.co.uk)
00:28.39*** join/#arm-netbook A2Sheds (~ly@unaffiliated/l84supper)
02:15.52*** join/#arm-netbook mikey_w (~mike@pool-74-110-218-2.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net)
03:16.33ManoftheSeaso... Simon is angling for kisses from Luke?
03:16.39ManoftheSeaEOMA, the soap opera!
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05:58.08edupreyManoftheSea: that interesting?
06:19.16*** join/#arm-netbook TheLegace (~TheLegace@24-246-36-150.cable.teksavvy.com)
06:19.53TheLegacehey guys
06:20.04TheLegaceA2Sheds, told me about this project and ive been looking for somethign like this while
06:20.38A2Shedsmost of the action is still on the ML
06:21.05TheLegaceML?
06:21.18A2Shedsmailing list
06:21.29A2Shedsmore info here  as well   http://rhombus-tech.net/
06:23.38TheLegaceoh ok so your trying to make basically a modular open source embedded type motherboard
06:23.52TheLegacethat could be used for tablets and it suppose to be cheap
06:24.17A2Shedsthe cpu and ram is on a card the same size as the old PCMCIA  http://elinux.org/Embedded_Open_Modular_Architecture/EOMA-68
06:24.38TheLegacewell i meant that sorry
06:24.50A2Shedshttp://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/overview.png
06:25.29A2Shedsso all products need will be matching slots and power + connectors etc
06:25.37TheLegaceok ill try and contribute if i can, im still exploring the stm32f4 but ill try and learn how to use audio
06:25.49TheLegacein coming weeks and see if i can contribute at all which i would love to
06:26.23A2Shedswe are going to have complete netbook, tablet, set-top-box. car-pc designs etc etc
06:26.32TheLegaceYES
06:26.34TheLegacethats awesome
06:26.43TheLegacewhat are you planning on running?
06:26.45TheLegacelike OS
06:26.51A2Shedsand you can carry the cpu card in your pocket
06:27.04A2Shedsit's all Linux so far
06:27.14A2Shedsandroid is already working as well
06:27.16TheLegaceA2Sheds, which distro specifically(or custom)
06:27.29TheLegaceu were mentioning rhel?
06:27.35A2Shedsdebian works now
06:27.53A2Shedssomebody here has ported RHEL to arm
06:28.16A2ShedsGordan, but he's not here now
06:28.30TheLegaceso is it mainly hardware project or do you want to somehow make better software for tablets etc..
06:28.37A2Shedsthe bodhiliux devs are looking as well
06:29.26A2Shedsmost devs here are ARM Linux devs that have been working on kernels and distros since the mid 90's
06:29.33TheLegaceso ARM A10 so its fairly recent in terms of performance
06:30.05TheLegaceim a bit confused on how ARM Linux development
06:30.09A2Shedsthe A10 is an ARM cortex a8 that came out a 2-3 months ago
06:30.37TheLegaceit seems like majority of ARM vendors dont have support for linux(i mean more consumer grade vendors phone, tablets)
06:30.45TheLegaceim pretty n00b to the industry
06:31.04TheLegaceso what is the environment like for developing on linux
06:31.20A2Shedsthey do, but many vendors were violating gpl and not publishing the source
06:31.24TheLegacei mean there is no support for the f4 in linux, thankfully some people have made some decent tools
06:31.43TheLegacewhat needs to be GPLed though?
06:31.55TheLegacelike say nvidia has the tegra nothing is GPLed really
06:32.09A2Shedsthey have been writing kernel drivers and not sharing
06:32.38TheLegaceya and like their stupid because they keep releasing shitty drivers after like almost 2 years that work on too old kernel version
06:32.44A2Shedsthe tegra kernel drivers are public
06:33.05TheLegacebut they dont support latest kernel
06:33.10A2Shedsnvidia complies but they drag their feet
06:33.15TheLegaceor latest X or something
06:33.23A2Shedsyeah
06:33.35TheLegaceoh wow look at that a beta release
06:33.43TheLegacethats new since like 6 months
06:34.11TheLegaceso their driver is binary right?
06:34.19TheLegacesince u cant recompile it for newer kernel
06:34.29TheLegacesorry im new to linux and such but hopefully i get there eventually
06:34.47TheLegacei dont want to waste to much of your time so just let me know if ur getting annoyed
06:35.48TheLegaceanyway ill come back once i get audio working on stm32
06:37.54A2ShedsI'm back in libopn  :)
06:38.13TheLegaceha
06:38.23A2Shedswhats a binary?
06:38.38A2Shedsnvidia stuff?
06:38.50TheLegacebinary just compiled code right
06:39.18A2Shedswe have all the source for the A10
06:39.45TheLegaceokie GREAT
06:39.52TheLegaceso we can actually do linux development
06:39.55TheLegaceive been waiting forever for that
06:41.26A2Shedshttp://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/kernel_compile/
06:42.40A2Shedshttp://elinux.org/Hack_A10_devices
06:55.43edupreyTheLegace: so STM32 seems to be the uC of choice for adding various capabilities to the EOM68 host board?
06:56.36edupreythough it's ARM so I guess secondary processor is a better way to say it
07:04.49TheLegaceeduprey, i really like stm32
07:04.57TheLegaceits has so many features
07:04.59TheLegaceand is really cheap
07:05.01TheLegaceincluding the DSP
07:05.07TheLegacewhich i want to become very excellent at using
07:05.08TheLegacesoon
07:05.34edupreyTheLegace: I have an stm32 discovery board around here I should play with
07:05.38TheLegacef4?
07:05.39TheLegaceor the older one
07:05.49TheLegaceunfortunately linux support is dismal
07:05.59TheLegacebut using libopencm3 i get basic functionality
07:06.15TheLegacebut i just figured when i get a chance i might try and expand many of the features
07:06.25TheLegacei seriously need to have some code in git or something somewhere or im going to like freak
07:06.29edupreyI think it was just called discovery when I got it
07:06.34edupreyso maybe older one
07:06.36TheLegaceprobably f1
07:07.17TheLegaceim assumming for lgpl code you can only use lgpl libraries right?
07:13.56edupreyso yeah LGPL program you want to distribute you have to be able to provide all its code under LGPL.   difference from GPL is you can make non GPL software by linking in LGPL stuff
07:14.28edupreybut changes to an LGPL'd library itself have to be provided with binary
07:14.55TheLegacehmm well theres going to be a decision made which library to use
07:15.03TheLegacethe STM32 one or the libopencm3
07:21.38edupreyhmm what license is STM32 one?
07:25.28TheLegacehmm lemme check
07:34.27TheLegaceeduprey, apparently
07:34.30TheLegacethere is no license
07:34.31TheLegacewow
07:40.47A2Shedseduprey: GPL3
07:40.58TheLegaceA2Sheds, for the STM?
07:41.10A2Shedsyeah
07:41.18TheLegacethis is what the release notes says
07:41.26TheLegaceThe enclosed firmware and all the related documentation are not covered by a License Agreement, if you need such License you can contact your local STMicroelectronics office.
07:42.16A2ShedsThis program is free software: you can redistribute it and/or modify
07:42.16A2Sheds<PROTECTED>
07:42.16A2Sheds<PROTECTED>
07:42.16A2Sheds<PROTECTED>
07:42.27A2Shedscheck any lib file
07:42.33TheLegaceaah okie my mistake
07:42.34TheLegacesorry
07:42.46A2Shedsno problem
07:50.22edupreyA2Sheds: ah nice
08:05.24*** topic/#arm-netbook by mnemoc -> EOMA: Embedded Open Modular Architecture - Don't ask to ask. Just ask! - http://elinux.org/Embedded_Open_Modular_Architecture/EOMA-68 - ML arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk - Logs http://ibot.rikers.org/%23arm-netbook - http://rhombus-tech.net/
08:07.03mnemocI had forgotten to add luke's wiki
08:07.39mnemochi! does anyone understand the machine type thing in the kernel?
08:09.07*** mode/#arm-netbook [+o A2Sheds] by mnemoc
08:10.13mnemoczecrazytux: moin, when you have a minute, can you grant me op prividelges in chanserv so I don't need to wear this @ all day? :)
08:16.49*** join/#arm-netbook lkcl (~lkcl@host86-131-166-15.range86-131.btcentralplus.com)
08:17.05mnemocwb lkcl!
08:17.16lkclthx mnemoc
08:19.51mnemochates gmail's autofolding too
08:20.00mnemocgod bless imap :p
08:46.33A2Shedsmy green dot is back!
08:48.35mnemoc.oO(what?)o
08:49.18mnemocah! your irc client marks ops with a green dot
08:49.30*** mode/#arm-netbook [+o lkcl] by mnemoc
08:49.37mnemoclets share green dots :p
08:49.49*** mode/#arm-netbook [+o ManoftheSea] by mnemoc
08:49.51mnemocgit st
08:49.53mnemocerr
08:49.54A2Shedsheh yeah xchat
08:51.44A2Shedslkcl: gpl3 on the stm32 libs
08:51.54lkclA2Sheds: yep.
08:52.12lkclthere's another project around, it's a real-time OS, which has been ported to the stm32
08:52.23lkclcan't remember its name, though.  found it a few months back
08:53.46A2Shedsxvilka: what was that RTOS you liked? had all the standards compliance?
08:53.47mnemocwhat's wrong with gpl3 for us?
08:54.41mnemochttp://nuttx.sourceforge.net/ ?
09:00.44A2Shedshttp://www.rtems.com/
09:01.39A2Shedshttp://wiki.rtems.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
09:03.13mnemoctheir list of random licenses is awful
09:03.36A2Shedshttp://sourceforge.net/projects/chibios/  for stm32
09:04.02mnemocnuttx is VERY complete, and BSD
09:05.08A2Shedsyou guys decide, I prefer soldering irons and 1's and 0's
09:05.50mnemocis totally unable to use a soldering iron :-/
09:06.13mnemocmy hands are only good for typing
09:08.06xvilkanuttx very useful, and ocmocomBB project using it for their custom mobile phone
09:08.55*** mode/#arm-netbook [+o xvilka] by mnemoc
09:09.10mnemocdoesn't want the @ to get lost again
09:09.46xvilkathough i think rtems is very stable and longlive (have big community and rapid development) rtos
09:10.16A2ShedsDr Joel likes to port things as well
09:11.04A2Shedshttp://wiki.rtems.org/wiki/index.php/JoelSherrill
09:11.48xvilkahttp://rtemsramblings.blogspot.com/
09:12.56A2Sheds"RTEMS is now 22 years old"
09:13.01A2Shedswow
09:13.56xvilkahttp://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.embedded.nuttx/288
09:14.56A2Shedsthe article is off about the RTEMS footprint
09:15.13A2ShedsJoel had it down to a few KB
09:17.21xvilkaalso it depends - nuttx has better sheduler (more features) than rtems (or i think so)
09:19.45A2Shedsxvilka: is the secure boot stuff no longer secure in the omap?
09:20.52edupreyA2Sheds: I wonder if A10 running EMC2 offloading realtime handling to the STM32 would work for the 3d printing / milling thing or whether RTAI patches are the way to go
09:21.10xvilkastill secure, but i'm working on it. comparing versions of various omap chips/bootloaders
09:21.41A2ShedsRTAI
09:22.07A2Shedsthe interface to the STM will only be by USB or SPI
09:22.11xvilkaA2Sheds: i'm reversing boot process into C code, updating wiki from assembler listings
09:23.31A2Shedseduprey: and they are slow as far as interrupt response and low jitter, not real time
09:25.09A2Shedseduprey: seen this?  http://code.google.com/p/miniemc2/
09:26.07A2Shedseduprey: then again, i usually work with real fast machines, how many steps per sec is a reprap?
09:26.08edupreyA2Sheds: ah yeah, pretty cool
09:26.58edupreyA2Sheds: ah I think they can generally do between 10k and 30k steps per second
09:27.29edupreyon atmega boards with current firmwares
09:27.29A2Sheds33us
09:29.09A2Shedsso 100-33us
09:29.35A2Sheds100us might be doable, we'll have to see
09:30.33edupreyworst case there's always FPGA, can the A10 share memory with an FPGA?
09:30.59edupreyeven SPI would be fine really
09:31.18A2ShedsI'm tempted to do a FPGA version soon to have DDR off the NAND port
09:32.12edupreyA2Sheds: SPI can be very fast and all you need to tell the FPGA or a microcontroller or secondary RT processor is how many steps to take when and have it do the pulsing
09:32.28A2Shedsxvilka: http://code.google.com/p/miniemc2/wiki/miniEMC2_user_maual_Rus  does he say how fast he was able to step or what his interrupt jitter is?
09:33.23edupreyhttp://code.google.com/p/miniemc2/wiki/PageName  english
09:33.27A2Shedshmmm  "maximum axis speed is 720 mm/min
09:33.27A2ShedsStep ratio: 3200 steps/revolution "
09:34.23edupreyyeah that's all configuration, not max specs
09:34.45A2ShedsStep frequency up to 40 kHz
09:34.47edupreyOne question is there.. 40k pulse rate is Hardware FIQ limit or it can be increased using software tweaking???
09:35.01edupreyyeah ok 40k is plenty
09:35.06A2Shedsyes
09:35.19A2Shedsand that is an arm9 400mhz
09:35.54A2Shedsbased on FIQ interrupt from periodic timer with 10 uS period, was used instead.
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09:39.27A2Shedsbbl
09:46.15A2Shedseduprey: Really max frequency is 50 kHz and you count on it. But limittation is CPU usage inside FIQ handler.
09:50.32edupreyA2Sheds: still some good uses for a slave stm32,  IO expansion for driving mosfets and reading thermistors via its ADC
10:05.59*** join/#arm-netbook gordan (~gordan@132.185.144.26)
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12:09.31ManoftheSeamemnoc asked about machine id?
12:09.50ManoftheSeamnemoc: machine id?
12:10.23ManoftheSeaIsn't it just how the kernel recognizes itself?
12:10.31lkclManoftheSea: you have to have a machine first to do that
12:10.49ManoftheSeaas in, the kernel can be compiled with various bootup procedure, but actually does one based on machine id
12:10.58ManoftheSeamorning luke
12:11.00lkclwell it's more a convenient macro-thing for deciding what to do
12:11.02lkclmoorning
12:14.55gordanIf you are talking about what I think you're talking about, machine ID is how kernel knows which particular hardware it's running on.
12:15.13gordane.g. SheevaPlug, GuruPlug, DreamPlug all have different machine IDs.
12:15.21gordanEven though they are all Kirkwood based.
12:15.55gordanAnd in fact if you aren't using on-board NAND and other model specific things, you can tell GuruPlug and DreamPlug to report Sheeva's machid, and the kernel will happily boot.
12:16.51gordanThe reason you need machid is because there may be model specific initialization that needs to be done, e.g. in the case mentioned, on-board NAND, LEDs, etc.
12:17.31gordanIf you are making a new device you'll need to submit a request for machid upstream in the kernel.
12:17.48gordanAnd then stick with it, maintain it, and stay in touch.
12:18.13gordanIIRC, one of the GuruPlug machids got revoked/removed due to lack of comms from maintainers, definitely not a situation to be in.
12:19.06ManoftheSearevoked?  to be reused?  That seems a bad situation.
12:19.30ManoftheSeabut the RHT CPUCard has a machine id now, right?
12:27.31lkclno it doesn't because we have to have some hardware, first.  it's easy enough to register one though.
12:35.35mnemocManoftheSea: this change in allwinner's 2.6.36 disturbs me https://github.com/amery/linux-allwinner/commit/9aae53f907709010497ac6db7338786cb0c1fbe6
12:36.47mnemocManoftheSea: I understand they first fake what the bootloaders was supposed to do, but later there is a registers mangling i can't follow
12:38.03mnemocManoftheSea: and when porting it to 3.0 some extra asm gets in the way https://github.com/amery/linux-allwinner/commit/91fdd49ab24669a7edb5b697d9623bfb02585255
12:40.26mnemocI'm also wondering if I have to pass the mach id to other parts of the code or if it happens "by magic"
12:42.57mnemocgordan: ----^ also for you and anyone who understand arm booting
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12:45.42gordanI'm not entirely sure.
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13:30.56ManoftheSeagordon's mac is probably 6e626d1788df
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15:33.15A2Shedseduprey: it's really up the designer of the product that the EOMA68 cards slide into. They can choose any hardware they wish for that.
15:37.58A2Shedsbut stm32 might be the reference to follow
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20:50.13A2Shedsahh the registers have gotten  Anton!
20:59.25_0xFECF0000I'm now memory mapped Intel's GMCH 0:6.0 device!
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