| 00:12.43 | *** join/#arm-netbook ibot (~ibot@rikers.org) |
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| 10:46.15 | *** join/#arm-netbook hipboi (~hipboi@221.4.213.95) |
| 10:54.58 | *** join/#arm-netbook tzafrir_laptop (~tzafrir@local.xorcom.com) |
| 10:55.13 | tzafrir_laptop | ~a10 |
| 10:59.00 | hipboi | good |
| 11:01.41 | tzafrir_laptop | ibot, rhombus-tech is a non-profit (CIC) established to produced interesting systems. http://rhombus-tech.net/ |
| 11:01.41 | ibot | tzafrir_laptop: okay |
| 11:02.01 | tzafrir_laptop | ~rhombus-tech |
| 11:02.01 | ibot | it has been said that rhombus-tech is a non-profit (CIC) established to produced interesting systems. http://rhombus-tech.net/ |
| 11:02.37 | tzafrir_laptop | hipboi, feel free to add other terms |
| 11:02.44 | hipboi | ibot, hello |
| 11:02.45 | ibot | Howdy Bub |
| 11:03.00 | tzafrir_laptop | ~ARM |
| 11:03.01 | ibot | hmm... arm is both big-endian and little-endian. hh-linux is little-endian |
| 11:03.14 | hipboi | linux |
| 11:03.21 | hipboi | ~linux |
| 11:03.21 | ibot | somebody said linux was an operating system that beats the socks off Windows and Mac! Go Linux! |
| 11:03.46 | tzafrir_laptop | I believe that the dictionary is common to other channels |
| 11:03.48 | tzafrir_laptop | ~asterisk |
| 11:03.49 | ibot | Asterisk is an open source telephony toolkit, or #asterisk on irc.freenode.net, or http://www.asterisk.org/ |
| 11:03.57 | tzafrir_laptop | ~dahdi |
| 11:03.57 | ibot | [~dahdi] Digium/Asterisk Hardware Device Interface (DAhdi). The new name of zaptel (more info at http://www.asterisk.org/dahdi ) and is pronounced "dah-dee" with a short A, or pronounced like http://www.russellbryant.net/dahdi.wav |
| 11:04.02 | tzafrir_laptop | ~itsp |
| 11:04.02 | ibot | [~itsp] An ITSP is an Internet Telephony Service Provider (or VoIP telephone company). They allow you to either SEND calls to the PSTN (this is called termination), RECEIVE calls from the PSTN (called origination), or both. Some offer fixed rates, others $/min. Enter ~itsplist-us (USA) or ~itsplist-ca (Canada) for a listing of popular ITSPs. |
| 11:04.06 | tzafrir_laptop | yup, it is |
| 11:05.31 | tzafrir_laptop | ibot, arm-netbooks-list is a mailing list at http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook |
| 11:05.31 | ibot | tzafrir_laptop: okay |
| 11:05.40 | tzafrir_laptop | To fix it: |
| 11:06.05 | tzafrir_laptop | ibot, no, arm-netbooks-list is a mailing list at http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/pipermail/arm-netbook/ |
| 11:06.05 | ibot | tzafrir_laptop: okay |
| 12:05.33 | *** join/#arm-netbook mnemoc (~amery@shell.opensde.net) |
| 12:27.28 | *** join/#arm-netbook gordan (~gordan@78-86-195-86.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 12:54.15 | hipboi | anyone knows cnxsoft? |
| 12:54.33 | hipboi | http://www.cnx-software.com/2011/12/28/allwinner-a10a1x-processor-resources-development-board-and-sdk |
| 12:57.47 | mnemoc | never heard of it. may be the site of someone on the ML, ask there :) |
| 12:59.21 | mnemoc | I hope more people starts joining the channel today |
| 13:00.04 | mnemoc | irc is far better for coordinating small teams than email |
| 13:01.18 | mnemoc | hipboi: is softwinner and allwinner the saame thing? |
| 13:01.29 | hipboi | yes... |
| 13:02.00 | mnemoc | good :) |
| 13:02.19 | hipboi | we should not use softwinner any more |
| 13:02.38 | mnemoc | ok, I'll correct that on the patches then |
| 13:03.05 | mnemoc | also, does sun4i cover all a1x SoCs or only the a10? |
| 13:03.12 | hipboi | a10 |
| 13:03.19 | hipboi | sun5i for a12 |
| 13:03.37 | mnemoc | ok |
| 13:04.13 | mnemoc | and lychee is your devkit? |
| 13:04.27 | mnemoc | (want to get the namings clear) |
| 13:04.31 | hipboi | lichee is the code name for the linux bsp |
| 13:04.38 | mnemoc | ic |
| 13:10.07 | hipboi | i think we use a prefix sun4i for all a10 specific driver |
| 13:10.29 | mnemoc | hipboi: yes |
| 13:10.49 | mnemoc | but there are a few CONFIG_LICHEE_ |
| 13:11.03 | hipboi | and register definition with SUN4I prefix |
| 13:11.57 | mnemoc | I started isolating sun4i stuff from the kernel patch |
| 13:12.07 | mnemoc | i hope it boots :p |
| 13:12.25 | mnemoc | hipboi: does your devkit include normal jtag plug? |
| 13:12.26 | hipboi | do you have the hardware? |
| 13:12.31 | mnemoc | nope :( |
| 13:12.51 | mnemoc | I ordered from tomtop a tablet with it, and waiting for lkcl's module |
| 13:12.58 | hipboi | no... |
| 13:13.23 | hipboi | we use arm realview and ice |
| 13:14.20 | mnemoc | uh, the cnxsoft page you pasted includes pictures of your devkit |
| 13:15.07 | mnemoc | looks nice :) |
| 13:17.52 | mnemoc | hipboi: do you know if they accept credit card payments for getting a kit? |
| 13:18.27 | hipboi | mnemoc: i am not sure.. |
| 13:19.11 | mnemoc | making wire transfers to .cn is expensive ... and sloooooow |
| 13:23.20 | mnemoc | hipboi: last question :) who can I mail to try to buy one? for mainlining and maintaining sun4i support in linux (not for products) |
| 13:23.41 | hipboi | mnemoc: good news |
| 13:23.52 | hipboi | i just talked to my manager] |
| 13:24.24 | hipboi | he said we can sent some dev boards to the community |
| 13:24.30 | hipboi | i just asked him |
| 13:24.40 | mnemoc | awesome! |
| 13:24.53 | hipboi | he said he need to ask the market guy |
| 13:25.19 | hipboi | but at least can sell you one at a low price |
| 13:25.35 | mnemoc | np :) I idle 24/7 here on irc :) |
| 13:26.12 | hipboi | tommorow there will be a result |
| 13:26.26 | mnemoc | thanks a lot! |
| 13:26.33 | mnemoc | looking forward to it |
| 13:26.55 | hipboi | it's after 9pm but we are still in the office |
| 13:36.35 | mnemoc | do you usually work this late? |
| 13:36.44 | hipboi | no.. |
| 13:37.28 | hipboi | tonight one of our custom begin massive production |
| 13:38.59 | hipboi | we need be here in case there be some problems or bugs |
| 13:40.47 | mnemoc | all night? |
| 13:41.27 | hipboi | no... maybe till the factory starting production |
| 13:41.49 | hipboi | they are preparing the firmware |
| 13:41.57 | mnemoc | ic |
| 13:42.23 | mnemoc | can I ask what is it? :) tv? phone? tablet? .... |
| 13:42.34 | hipboi | tablet .. |
| 13:42.56 | hipboi | android 4.0 |
| 13:43.05 | mnemoc | nice |
| 13:43.39 | hipboi | with a good ips display the same that ipad uses |
| 13:44.40 | hipboi | actually we are not an ic company, we are a product based company |
| 13:46.01 | hipboi | that's why the software is so bad |
| 13:46.12 | mnemoc | :D |
| 13:46.14 | hipboi | because it's so rush |
| 13:48.10 | mnemoc | it's hard to imagine from here the pressure you have there to release products to market as fast as possible |
| 13:52.32 | mnemoc | the scale and the competition you face is hard to find in the "west" |
| 14:01.04 | *** join/#arm-netbook A2Sheds (~ly@unaffiliated/l84supper) |
| 14:01.27 | A2Sheds | I was in here last week with just a bot |
| 14:04.51 | A2Sheds | I was just catching up on todays mail list, there's no discrete GPU available anymore, plus the A10 does not have a PCI or PCIe bus |
| 14:05.52 | A2Sheds | you might be able to work with a design that could share the RAM interface like some of the strongarm bridge parts but it's a kludge |
| 14:07.38 | A2Sheds | I know that the Radeon and x-tungsten graphics devs would be interested in supporting a radeon GPU on a ARM design with PCIe |
| 14:08.11 | A2Sheds | but we don't have an ARM soc with PCIe with open specs |
| 14:09.47 | A2Sheds | and power consumption would be high |
| 14:52.16 | *** join/#arm-netbook iliya (~iliya@87-126-20-213.btc-net.bg) |
| 16:20.58 | tzafrir_laptop | off-topic: what exactly is CONFIG_PHYS_OFFSET ? |
| 16:21.21 | tzafrir_laptop | I need to build a kernel for a different ARM CPU and all of a sudden I need to provide it |
| 16:22.09 | tzafrir_laptop | ("Physical address of main memory") Is this something new in 3.2? |
| 17:18.43 | gordan | A2Sheds, There are at least two off the top of my head. Marvell Armada has PCIe, as does Tegra2. |
| 17:18.54 | gordan | Granted, on the Tegra2, you already have a GPU... |
| 17:19.06 | A2Sheds | and closed specs |
| 17:19.06 | gordan | I think Armada has a GPU, too. |
| 17:19.11 | gordan | Not the PCIe part. |
| 17:19.15 | gordan | Only the GPU part is closed. |
| 17:19.29 | gordan | I _think_ Kirkwood has PCIe, too, and that has no GPU. |
| 17:19.33 | A2Sheds | oh yeah, built in GPU is best if they release the libs to open source |
| 17:19.37 | gordan | It's an old, 7W ARM, though. |
| 17:19.57 | gordan | So at 7W for the CPU without the GPU, you might as well get a new one and use a Volari |
| 17:20.27 | A2Sheds | plus Marvell even closed the specs for the 610 in the OLPC xo1.75 |
| 17:21.16 | A2Sheds | they said they would open them, then donated $5M to the project and then backed out of open docs |
| 17:21.20 | gordan | Define "closed". |
| 17:21.38 | gordan | The fact that the support for the Marvell chips is in the mainline Linux kernel, the specs can't be that closed. |
| 17:21.45 | gordan | Since the code could be used to reverse-document it. |
| 17:21.51 | gordan | And it is in mainline and maintained. |
| 17:22.06 | gordan | The GPU part isn't, but as I said, Kirkwood for one doesn't have a GPU. |
| 17:22.11 | gordan | Everything else is there. |
| 17:22.13 | A2Sheds | sort of what we have to do with the A10 |
| 17:22.37 | gordan | Pretty much - except Marvell already have stuff in the mainline, so no work is required to get it all upstreamed and ready. |
| 17:23.02 | gordan | Don't get me wrong - A10 is still better, with lower power consumption and it's faster. |
| 17:23.22 | A2Sheds | I am happy to spin any board we need |
| 17:23.27 | gordan | :) |
| 17:23.35 | A2Sheds | I'll even do all the design for the A10 boards |
| 17:23.49 | gordan | It really puzzles the crap out of me why no manufacturer has opened up the GPU specs, though. |
| 17:23.55 | A2Sheds | all the co's in china will have to do is stuff pcb's with parts |
| 17:24.06 | gordan | Yup. |
| 17:24.10 | A2Sheds | so the offer is there |
| 17:24.14 | gordan | :) |
| 17:24.38 | A2Sheds | but Rhombus isn't interested |
| 17:24.58 | A2Sheds | so if anyone else wants an ARM board that makes sense, let me know |
| 17:25.00 | gordan | Well, I think A10 is the least bad choice at the moment. |
| 17:25.07 | gordan | Define "makes sense". |
| 17:25.22 | A2Sheds | worth my time and interest |
| 17:25.34 | gordan | So it's a very subjective "makes sense", then. :) |
| 17:25.47 | gordan | Personally I'd like to see PC-like *TX boards. |
| 17:25.47 | A2Sheds | say lots of software developers |
| 17:26.06 | gordan | Like the Compulab's SBC-510 |
| 17:26.18 | gordan | The only thing that is short of to be perfect is a DIMM socket for RAM. |
| 17:26.19 | A2Sheds | and interest from ODM's in China to stuff boards |
| 17:26.33 | A2Sheds | I'll take a look |
| 17:26.56 | gordan | http://www.compulab.co.il/a510/html/a510-sb-datasheet.htm |
| 17:27.04 | A2Sheds | yeah, could be done |
| 17:27.05 | gordan | It's about $350 for one-offs. |
| 17:27.10 | A2Sheds | yikes |
| 17:27.15 | gordan | Worth every penny. |
| 17:27.23 | A2Sheds | well if they only sell 10 at a time |
| 17:27.38 | A2Sheds | they must have next to no customers in high volume |
| 17:28.02 | gordan | u-ATX form factor, all the ports broken out (ethernet, USB, VGA), and if you want to replace the ARM CPU with the Atom, you could even do that. |
| 17:28.03 | A2Sheds | i had high hopes for marvell |
| 17:28.05 | gordan | The motherboard is generic. |
| 17:28.13 | A2Sheds | more shattered dreams |
| 17:28.43 | A2Sheds | yeah, their form factor never works for me |
| 17:29.02 | A2Sheds | or CPU board + MB is way out of the price range |
| 17:29.38 | A2Sheds | I could spin a 510 PCMCIA board |
| 17:30.35 | A2Sheds | Marvell prices it at ~$40 |
| 17:31.01 | gordan | Well, a separate mobo (engineering board) is already on the cards for the A10 PCMCIA module. |
| 17:31.09 | A2Sheds | when I mention marvell in China they all go "too expensive" |
| 17:31.32 | gordan | Because the module on it's own isn't going to be particularly useful. |
| 17:31.36 | A2Sheds | yeah, I'll build a MB and a backplane |
| 17:31.58 | gordan | And if you're making an engineering MoBo, you might as well make it *TX format compliant. |
| 17:32.04 | A2Sheds | until I spin a A10 board |
| 17:32.04 | gordan | All it takes is putting the screw holes in the right place. |
| 17:32.20 | A2Sheds | I already have customers if the module shows up |
| 17:32.44 | gordan | Add 12V power (or better, PoE!), and it'd be perfect. |
| 17:32.46 | A2Sheds | i just hope the A10 module isn't built like a turd |
| 17:33.06 | gordan | Well, it'll be inside a PCMCIA casing, you won't be able to tell. ;) |
| 17:33.15 | A2Sheds | trial and error and no clue as to why it works but it just does |
| 17:33.31 | gordan | Most likely flooded with thermal gel, too, so good luck with opening it up. ;) |
| 17:33.56 | A2Sheds | it won't need gel |
| 17:34.17 | A2Sheds | open case, rinse with IPA |
| 17:35.26 | A2Sheds | I just want to see an open arm board, i hope they don't screw this up |
| 17:38.01 | A2Sheds | $ 75 for the CM-A510 at 1k with the MB would be fine |
| 17:40.59 | A2Sheds | I'm working with open hardware 3d printers for the time being, I'll keep lurking around until the boards show up |
| 17:41.26 | A2Sheds | or if we get schematics and gerbers for a design review |
| 17:49.44 | A2Sheds | gordan: if marvell has everything in the kernel, why won't they share written docs? |
| 18:59.26 | gordan | A2Sheds: I have no idea. |
| 18:59.35 | gordan | But the support for everything is in the mainline. |
| 18:59.57 | gordan | And AFAICT, they contributed the lot. |
| 19:01.15 | A2Sheds | there are also some omap parts, but closed GPU again |
| 19:02.20 | A2Sheds | ST has some dual cortex a9 devices but only at 600-800mhz or freescale imx, but they both tend keep the docs closed until nobody wants the parts anymore |
| 19:04.04 | gordan | Well, Freescale also provide a working kernel source. |
| 19:04.18 | gordan | So again, you could reverse engineer the docs from the source if you really felt that strongly about it. |
| 19:04.25 | A2Sheds | powerVR might not ever open source anything, but maybe ARM will if it makes them $$ |
| 19:04.47 | gordan | No full GPU spec, but at least there's enough to get a fbdev up and running. |
| 19:05.03 | A2Sheds | odd, so they release kernel source but no docs |
| 19:05.09 | gordan | And IIRC, they might even have enough to get xv acceleration up and running on the fbdev, but I could be wrong. |
| 19:05.26 | gordan | I don't know about docs, I never looked. |
| 19:05.35 | gordan | I generally have no interest in working on that level. |
| 19:05.46 | A2Sheds | maybe once the a10 modules get popular we''l have some leverage |
| 19:05.46 | gordan | Too much time and effort for the return. |
| 19:06.18 | gordan | I just want something that works already to a basic level (uboot, kernel), unless I'm being paid to make it work. :) |
| 19:06.54 | A2Sheds | I've spoken with several radeon and ex-tungsten graphics devs, they would be happy to support an arm GPU if given enough specs |
| 19:07.12 | A2Sheds | they do it for fun |
| 19:07.52 | A2Sheds | we were going to have a radeon card work with Kirkwood, but I got too busy |
| 19:08.57 | A2Sheds | we had to do some Atom-BIOS rework since it is x86 only and then handle the lack of unified memory with ARM |
| 19:10.17 | A2Sheds | I worked on a very similar project to this about 6 years ago |
| 19:11.27 | A2Sheds | Mips module and also AMD low power x86 module that was swappable between notebook, desktop, set-top-box, etc |
| 19:13.40 | A2Sheds | we could spin an AMD APU module in PCMCIA if there is enough interest |
| 19:22.18 | gordan | The problem is the power draw. |
| 19:22.40 | gordan | What is the point of having a 2W CPU coupled with a 150W GPU? |
| 19:22.46 | A2Sheds | the limit currently is 10W |
| 19:23.10 | A2Sheds | use the tablet APU's |
| 19:26.14 | A2Sheds | APU core at 1GHz, GPU at 250MHz <10W |
| 19:27.42 | A2Sheds | or only 1 core on at 1.6GHz and gpu at 250MHz |
| 19:28.19 | A2Sheds | I really want the A10 modules |
| 19:31.17 | gordan | 10W is still astronomical. |
| 19:31.46 | gordan | Tegra2 is about 6 including the CPU. |
| 19:35.08 | A2Sheds | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=pandaboard_es&num=1 TI OMAP4660 ARM Cortex-A9 PandaBoard ES Benchmarks |
| 19:35.26 | A2Sheds | yeah, depends on the performance you want |
| 19:36.01 | A2Sheds | there are some marvell 610 benchmarks/comparisons as well at that link |
| 19:36.43 | A2Sheds | using the OLPC x01.75 |
| 19:36.46 | gordan | Frankly, I think performance is 99% irrelevant. |
| 19:37.12 | gordan | If it'll do MPEG4 playback at 1080p, it doesn't matter. |
| 19:37.16 | gordan | Everything else is just wasted. |
| 19:37.26 | gordan | Tegra2 will happily do 60fps in Quake 3 on the AC100. |
| 19:37.28 | A2Sheds | most of my apps only need good 2d and multimedia playback |
| 19:37.38 | gordan | So more performance than that is clearly a waste of time and batteries. |
| 19:39.54 | A2Sheds | with more devs working with linux/android most media plays well on ARM now |
| 19:41.08 | A2Sheds | I'm pondering whether to order a $120 A10 tablet now just to see |
| 19:48.30 | gordan | Thing is, I don't see how releasing the full spec for the Mali wouldn't make ARM $$$ |
| 19:48.47 | gordan | It means a better OSS supported driver stack. |
| 19:49.09 | gordan | Which will mean more companies will licence it in favour of other options. |
| 19:49.44 | A2Sheds | I agree |
| 19:50.00 | A2Sheds | some people just need to control things |
| 19:50.47 | gordan | Yeah - even when it is to their own detriment. |
| 19:50.50 | A2Sheds | they also tend to become higher ups in big business |
| 19:51.12 | A2Sheds | it needs to be treated as a disorder |
| 19:51.21 | A2Sheds | but until that day comes |
| 21:21.49 | *** join/#arm-netbook lkcl (~lkcl@host86-131-181-149.range86-131.btcentralplus.com) |
| 21:22.27 | lkcl | hey folks |
| 21:22.45 | lkcl | i forgot we had irc doh |
| 21:31.11 | tzafrir_laptop | The topic line is empty |
| 21:31.32 | lkcl | ahh, probably. server reset. |
| 21:31.35 | tzafrir_laptop | any op to edit it? |
| 21:32.02 | tzafrir_laptop | ~arm |
| 21:32.02 | ibot | i guess arm is both big-endian and little-endian. hh-linux is little-endian |
| 21:32.17 | tzafrir_laptop | ~elinux |
| 21:32.17 | ibot | elinux is, like, http://eLinux.org/ or the Embedded Linux project. cross compilers. build systems, hardware hacking etc. |
| 22:19.15 | A2Sheds | Suggested Topic: We're Waiting for CPU Modules :) |
| 22:37.48 | gordan | Hi Luke. :) |
| 23:22.14 | *** join/#arm-netbook tzafrir_laptop (~tzafrir@bzq-218-155-170.cablep.bezeqint.net) |