| 04:29.02 | *** join/#arm-netbook Baybal (~baybal@S0106001346161355.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 04:30.00 | *** join/#arm-netbook Baybal_ (~baybal@S0106001346161355.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 04:31.10 | *** join/#arm-netbook Baybal__ (~baybal@S0106001346161355.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 04:34.05 | Baybal__ | my isp... |
| 04:36.57 | sn9 | Baybal__: yes? |
| 04:37.26 | Baybal__ | just unstable connection, does anybody have case photos? |
| 04:37.51 | sn9 | the www does, i think |
| 04:38.07 | Baybal__ | didn't found |
| 04:38.21 | Baybal__ | the only ones was with pcb not extracted |
| 04:40.51 | sn9 | pcb extracted would be pcb photos, not case photos |
| 04:41.09 | Baybal__ | excuse my poor english |
| 04:41.41 | Baybal__ | I meant case without pcb inside |
| 04:42.43 | sn9 | oh |
| 04:43.57 | sn9 | i doubt anyone would take such photos except by request |
| 04:44.50 | Baybal__ | just want to see the dimensions of it, and how much space are inside |
| 04:46.46 | sn9 | i can only speak for the one i have, which may be different from the one you are looking for |
| 04:47.43 | Baybal__ | i'm thinking if the layout is permissive for hard drive |
| 04:47.59 | sn9 | the one i have cannot fit one |
| 04:49.45 | Baybal__ | i'm thinking if seatron have equipment for double side pcm assembly |
| 05:21.09 | *** join/#arm-netbook Baybal__ (~baybal@S0106001346161355.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 05:40.18 | SQlvpapir | Baybal__, you will have to break out a dremel to make space for pretty much anything |
| 05:40.43 | Baybal__ | =D |
| 08:22.24 | *** join/#arm-netbook phenompanda (~hzhang@114.242.25.20) |
| 08:22.59 | mnemoc | hi phenompanda! |
| 08:23.41 | phenompanda | hi mnemoc |
| 08:24.39 | mnemoc | phenompanda: we have information collected at http://elinux.org/CT-PC89E |
| 08:25.13 | mnemoc | phenompanda: and a mailing list http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/pipermail/arm-netbook/ |
| 08:26.09 | mnemoc | phenompanda: our "contact" is a british geek living in hong kong named Adam Gill. he is the one that has talked with the factories |
| 08:27.09 | mnemoc | phenompanda: but obviusly in english, and that makes communications... difficult. and explaining things to them even harder |
| 08:27.23 | phenompanda | mnemoc, so, for the factories, where are they based? I mean is that Chitech located in Shenzhen, very close to Hongkong? |
| 08:27.59 | phenompanda | mnemoc, OK, I speak Mandarin and can read Cantonese |
| 08:28.14 | mnemoc | great! |
| 08:28.25 | mnemoc | let me collect some contact details |
| 08:31.09 | phenompanda | mnemoc, BTW: how much for such a netbook? |
| 08:31.42 | phenompanda | mnemoc, I mean if I can afford to buy it, then I might have the right to ask them for source code if they quoted from GPL code base |
| 08:32.27 | mnemoc | it was $200.60 USD EMS shipping to spain included... 1m |
| 08:32.46 | phenompanda | mnemoc, in China, for those manufactures, they might have concerns for other competiors to rude-ly hard-copy their design and product |
| 08:33.04 | mnemoc | yes |
| 08:33.21 | phenompanda | mnemoc, see, it's not very expensive one, I highly suspect whether those manufactures have get back their funding on this project |
| 08:33.29 | phenompanda | mnemoc, so don't be so worry about that |
| 08:33.54 | phenompanda | mnemoc, we need to figure out one way to push them provide a compromised solution |
| 08:34.00 | mnemoc | the unit was US$162 |
| 08:34.22 | phenompanda | mnemoc, I don't have the full content on your current questions |
| 08:34.36 | phenompanda | mnemoc, 1. this netbook running GPL based kernel+userland? |
| 08:34.55 | mnemoc | yes linux + xfce |
| 08:34.58 | phenompanda | mnemoc, 2. kernel have known issue and bug but manufactures won't fix them? |
| 08:35.22 | phenompanda | mnemoc, XFCE? OK, I see, then manufacture might have connection with XFCE project |
| 08:36.10 | mnemoc | bugs have been collected at http://elinux.org/CT-PC89E_Bugs |
| 08:36.25 | phenompanda | mnemoc, 3. what else the end-user requested for? re-program boot loader? kernel or default system partition? |
| 08:36.26 | Baybal__ | heelo |
| 08:36.50 | Baybal__ | can anyone make photos with case open? |
| 08:36.55 | mnemoc | phenompanda: they use uboot, and there are closed patches invoved there too |
| 08:37.14 | phenompanda | mnemoc, relax, man, it's quite common in China |
| 08:37.27 | mnemoc | Baybal__: I have mostly pictures of the board, not the case |
| 08:37.30 | Baybal__ | In my opinion as the bootloader should be easily reflashable |
| 08:37.40 | phenompanda | mnemoc, they choose to use open source and linux are already very pioneer in current industry |
| 08:37.56 | mnemoc | Baybal__: the problem are the "constants" uses to deal with the hardware |
| 08:38.01 | mnemoc | used* |
| 08:38.06 | phenompanda | mnemoc, just let me know your wishing-list, then let's try to figure out how to start the negociation fromt the very beginning |
| 08:38.09 | Baybal__ | yah, usually most population install wince on their production |
| 08:38.18 | phenompanda | mnemoc, I mean, do not expecting for too much at the early stage |
| 08:38.31 | mnemoc | phenompanda: i'm searching for the thread with Adam's questions and their answers |
| 08:38.35 | phenompanda | mnemoc, their support effort might generate extra cost |
| 08:38.40 | Baybal__ | I think hw code can be easily ported to kernel |
| 08:38.56 | phenompanda | mnemoc, trust me or not, this manufacture probably won't have their own big software team |
| 08:39.17 | phenompanda | mnemoc, so they might either use out-sourcing or busy on their next stage product |
| 08:39.18 | mnemoc | phenompanda: that's were we can help him, for free |
| 08:39.22 | mnemoc | where* |
| 08:39.25 | Baybal__ | as I know seatron in just a factory |
| 08:39.35 | mnemoc | damn, my english sucks, i need coffee |
| 08:39.42 | Baybal__ | with screwdriver level assembly |
| 08:39.56 | phenompanda | mnemoc, they won't get any direct profit from totally open source |
| 08:40.19 | phenompanda | mnemoc, so just be patience, please don't ask them directly |
| 08:40.25 | mnemoc | phenompanda: they get direct profit for fully linux/bsd/android compatible hardware |
| 08:41.03 | Baybal__ | there are lots of screwdriver assemblers in PRC |
| 08:41.22 | phenompanda | mnemoc, I doubt it, they are not that famous at all, they are apparently not ready to support such a big market |
| 08:41.27 | mnemoc | phenompanda: that's a problem... Adam and Luke have contacted them directly, and even put this into the hands of the FSF and gpl-violations :( |
| 08:41.47 | phenompanda | mnemoc, this will make this case even worse |
| 08:41.55 | mnemoc | yes :( |
| 08:42.07 | phenompanda | mnemoc, we don't need to issue this problem became a law suit |
| 08:42.30 | phenompanda | mnemoc, what do we need is just simply resolve it |
| 08:42.37 | mnemoc | that's why i trust a native-speaker with free-software heart can solve the issue :) |
| 08:42.54 | phenompanda | mnemoc, we are end-users and hackers, we won't make any profit from law suit at all |
| 08:43.23 | Baybal__ | does current 89 have hard drive? |
| 08:43.29 | mnemoc | anything involving lawyers is a nightmare and makes more problems than benefits |
| 08:43.39 | phenompanda | mnemoc, well, I'd like to have a chat with Adam and Luke |
| 08:43.47 | mnemoc | Baybal__: no, a soldered SD-alike IC |
| 08:44.01 | mnemoc | Adam Gill <madallig@gmail.com> |
| 08:44.06 | Baybal__ | thats will not make it's way to western market |
| 08:44.09 | phenompanda | mnemoc, lawyers cost time and get totally un-efficency in China |
| 08:44.36 | phenompanda | mnemoc, we make the laws, we break the laws, or you can call us outlaws |
| 08:44.37 | mnemoc | phenompanda: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl@lkcl.net> also lkcl here |
| 08:44.53 | phenompanda | mnemoc, so don't expect use western communication to resolve such a local problem |
| 08:44.59 | mnemoc | phenompanda: and obvisuly, the mailing list http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook |
| 08:45.13 | phenompanda | mnemoc, I hope I can help on this case |
| 08:45.18 | mnemoc | phenompanda: yes, i agree |
| 08:45.31 | phenompanda | mnemoc, even if I don't have such a hardware |
| 08:45.49 | phenompanda | mnemoc, so will Adam and Luck came to IRC channel? |
| 08:46.00 | mnemoc | Adam doesn't, Luke does |
| 08:46.15 | mnemoc | Adam is less geek :) |
| 08:46.28 | Baybal__ | did you settle about sata and pci phy? |
| 08:47.21 | mnemoc | Baybal__: Luke and Michelle have a parallel project about building a netbook. that doesn't involve all those who bought the "chitech" netbook |
| 08:48.00 | Baybal__ | yeah, but as I understood they are going to place it on chitech? |
| 08:49.05 | Baybal__ | who is Michelle? |
| 08:50.18 | mnemoc | Michelle Konzack, German i think |
| 08:50.46 | mnemoc | her goal is to make the SO-DIMM an standard |
| 08:51.03 | mnemoc | so one can plug different SoMs in different devices |
| 08:52.35 | Baybal__ | heh |
| 08:52.45 | Baybal__ | may he try... |
| 08:55.02 | Baybal__ | in my opinion to make devices cheap like hell, it's needed to place everything on a single pcb and possibly single chip, killing even redundant connectors in the process... |
| 08:55.21 | Baybal__ | thats the way commercial products made |
| 08:56.26 | Baybal__ | in PRC there are x86 motherboards in 10x10cm format totally stripped off what is usually associated with x86 |
| 08:59.48 | Baybal__ | just like you are having 10x10 piece of texolithe with core2 duo, memory, geforce chip , north bridges all soldered on on both of sides |
| 09:01.36 | mnemoc | the idea of the SoM is to centralize the "expensive" part SoC + RAM + NAND |
| 09:02.08 | mnemoc | and leave the PCB only to periferals |
| 09:02.53 | Baybal__ | I don't think seatron even makes own pcbs |
| 09:03.05 | Baybal__ | ... |
| 09:03.36 | mnemoc | i think seatron does the design |
| 09:04.19 | mnemoc | and the case must be from someone else. it's shared among several different devices |
| 09:04.36 | Baybal__ | I have the same feeling |
| 09:05.27 | mnemoc | actually to make the board of the ct-pc89e inside the case the had to *manually* cut some chunks of plastic under the keyboard |
| 09:05.55 | Baybal__ | lol |
| 09:16.45 | *** join/#arm-netbook lkcl (~lkcl@nat66.mia.three.co.uk) |
| 10:54.35 | mnemoc | Baybal__: what exactly do you want pictured? my camera is kind of crappy, but I can try to help you |
| 10:58.28 | SQlvpapir | lkcl, looks like the machine got abandoned. are you still going forward with doing replacement so-dimms? if not too inconvenient I'd like to opt out of that as it looks like we will never have an upstream-ish working kernel |
| 11:14.05 | lkcl | SQlvpapir, an upstream-ish working kernel is infinitely easier when you have the kernel sources and control over the CPU so-dimm board. |
| 11:14.28 | lkcl | because you know all the pin-outs - everything. |
| 11:16.04 | SQlvpapir | I think its worth waiting for them to check if its ok to hand over the code despite the "it is difficult I think" in their previous mail |
| 11:25.35 | lkcl | the thing is that i have seen evidence of "paranoia" in the linux kernel code - desperate and not very good attempts to "tie" code to hardware (using the eeprom to check an SHA-1 magic constant and powering down if it's not correct) |
| 11:26.02 | lkcl | so the software suppliers have to face the reality of the GPL, first. |
| 11:26.49 | lkcl | money's going to be the kicker, here. when they can't get any money because of GPL violation lawsuits against customers, that's when they'll start listening. |
| 11:29.38 | SQlvpapir | they either choose to sell their machines as "machines of freedom" or keep going with providing the occasional bulk like most other companies who spend a lot of money hoping to flood the marked with whatever they put their money in |
| 11:30.55 | SQlvpapir | with (optional?) upgrades I find it hard to see how it would not be lucrative for them - their engineers will learn a bit and maybe even start respecting the GPL |
| 11:32.11 | SQlvpapir | for now its all wish thinking until they decide if they want to comply or not.. if they dont it seems as its simply too much work bringing this machine alive |
| 11:40.21 | mnemoc | lkcl: phenompanda offered to help us in the gpl-in-chinese related stuff.... he will contact you and adam |
| 11:40.27 | lkcl | ok. great. |
| 11:40.32 | lkcl | thank you |
| 11:42.48 | mnemoc | lkcl: also, it seems he will start making an arm-netbook at work next month... |
| 11:42.54 | lkcl | cool! |
| 11:43.07 | lkcl | _very_ cool. |
| 11:43.10 | mnemoc | he is based in beijing |
| 11:43.31 | lkcl | is he allowed to make that public / semi-public? |
| 11:43.59 | lkcl | i guess so.. :) |
| 11:44.08 | mnemoc | i don't know details yet, but i think he is |
| 11:44.29 | lkcl | ok. |
| 11:44.30 | lkcl | _good_ |
| 11:44.33 | lkcl | damn good. |
| 11:45.21 | mnemoc | but i prefer to focus in making the "chitech" a fully/freely functional netbook before thinking in investing in any other piece of related hardware :) |
| 11:49.36 | mnemoc | my mipsel netbook is working like a charm, i need to fix some authorships in the commits before making the repo (2.6.29.6-based) public (hopefully in alioth's arm-netbook space) and then I switch back to the cr-pc89e |
| 12:16.59 | sn9 | the chitech is not the only arm netbook |
| 12:22.38 | mnemoc | of course not, but it's the one i have |
| 12:23.44 | mnemoc | and one that i regret to have bought... |
| 12:29.04 | mnemoc | sn9: did you find how to boot a linux from your Menq? |
| 12:31.03 | sn9 | not yet; i hoped to back up wince first |
| 12:31.21 | sn9 | but maybe i can boot linux without touching wince |
| 12:32.15 | mnemoc | in #edev you can find people with experience with wince |
| 12:33.33 | sn9 | i asked there twice; no responce |
| 12:33.37 | sn9 | *response |
| 12:33.58 | mnemoc | :( |
| 12:34.25 | sn9 | but i found someone who is building on my initial investigation into linuxing the T-Mobile HiPort |
| 12:34.34 | mnemoc | nice |
| 12:35.51 | sn9 | yeah, a year and a half later |
| 18:26.56 | *** join/#arm-netbook SQlvpapir_ (~teis@188.177.95.62) |
| 18:37.30 | zecrazytux | damn, my fs is ext4 |
| 18:37.48 | zecrazytux | i need to reinstall debian if i want to switch to chitech's kernel |
| 18:38.18 | zecrazytux | (what i'm likely going to do, as my netbook is useless with "our" kernel and its bugs) |
| 18:40.45 | zecrazytux | wow, 80$ for the menq netbook ? sounds amazing |
| 18:44.27 | zecrazytux | but i see only buzz about it |
| 18:51.50 | *** join/#arm-netbook SQlvpapir (~teis@188.177.95.62) |
| 19:15.36 | sn9 | zecrazytux: the menq easypc e790 is also known as the delstar ds700 |
| 20:38.33 | Baybal__ | mnemoc can you photo the dimensions of pcb and case open |
| 20:58.20 | mnemoc | Baybal__: I have a set of raw pictures at http://geeks.cl/projects/chitech/chitech-mnemoc-2010-04-02.tar.bz2 |
| 20:58.30 | mnemoc | Baybal__: but no dimensions |
| 20:58.41 | Baybal__ | ok I will look |
| 21:01.34 | mnemoc | Baybal__: i'll have time to open mine again during next week. after looking at those pictures tell me exactly what you need me to shoot or measure |
| 21:02.29 | Baybal__ | distance between screw slots, internal dimensions of case and pcb |
| 21:02.35 | Baybal__ | thank you very much |
| 21:02.50 | sn9 | 31 minutes remaining to download the file |
| 21:03.05 | sn9 | 34 now |
| 21:04.23 | mnemoc | there is one extract picture in the dir, DSC02357.JPG it's of the so-dimm socket |
| 21:04.29 | mnemoc | extra* |
| 21:05.02 | mnemoc | Baybal__: I don't have how to measure that accurately |
| 21:05.32 | mnemoc | and my camera curves the images when shooting close |
| 21:05.48 | Baybal__ | ok, just place meter on the pcb |
| 21:08.12 | mnemoc | I have a 20cm one with half milimeter marks. I'll see what I can do. remind me on wednesday (after a deadline) |
| 21:10.35 | Baybal__ | how usb ports are soldered makes me worried |
| 21:11.41 | mnemoc | Baybal__: got my pictures? |
| 21:11.46 | Baybal__ | how usb ports are soldered makes me worried |
| 21:11.50 | Baybal__ | yes |
| 21:16.00 | mnemoc | in what sense makes you worried? |
| 21:51.08 | Baybal__ | the way they are soldered |
| 21:51.42 | Baybal__ | side legs that should sit at the holes in pcb are just bended and soldered flat |
| 21:53.04 | mnemoc | ic... never noticed. I saw it with the eyes of a software ape only :| |
| 21:56.08 | sn9 | mnemoc: there is no DSC02357.JPG in the tar |
| 21:56.26 | mnemoc | sn9: it's outside the tar, in the same directory |
| 21:56.56 | mnemoc | i shoot it later, for luke |
| 21:57.53 | sn9 | lol, the cpu is on a sodimm |
| 21:58.03 | mnemoc | yup |
| 21:58.16 | mnemoc | with the nand and ram |
| 22:00.58 | sn9 | well, clearly this board is laid out differently from mine |
| 22:01.01 | Baybal__ | this type of soldering will result in usb ports being torned out within a year |
| 22:01.25 | sn9 | form factor does not match |
| 22:01.28 | mnemoc | http://geeks.cl/projects/chitech/DSC02357.JPG <-- url to that extra picture i mentioned, in the case you didn't download it already |
| 22:02.51 | mnemoc | sn9: different to your menq? that was kind of ... expectable :) |
| 22:05.12 | sn9 | mnemoc: bjdooks has something called a ubisurfer, with a very different board in a case identical to the menq e790 |
| 22:05.25 | mnemoc | ic |
| 22:07.30 | mnemoc | Baybal__: i have a dockable sata station with usb hub which i'll have to resolder because of that exact issue |
| 22:07.51 | Baybal__ | are you in uk? |
| 22:08.04 | mnemoc | .es |
| 22:08.23 | mnemoc | and you? |
| 22:08.26 | Baybal__ | .ca |
| 22:09.09 | mnemoc | somehow i had the idea you were in asia :) |
| 22:09.17 | Baybal__ | i was |
| 22:10.11 | sn9 | just not now |
| 22:11.11 | Baybal | not for now, but probably for forever |
| 22:11.54 | mnemoc | :) |
| 22:13.39 | mnemoc | visiting the family from time to time is not bad... |
