| 00:00.21 | Gary|tp | All threads about downgrading or root on rc30 need to just be deleted imo |
| 00:01.14 | languish | so you would deny a portion of the consumer market what they want? |
| 00:01.18 | *** join/#android alansj (n=alansj@m315a36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 00:01.38 | languish | and a portion of the developer market what they need? |
| 00:02.02 | RyeBrye | Does Dalvik benefit at all from this so-called "Jazelle" piece of the G1? |
| 00:02.11 | geist | nope |
| 00:02.24 | languish | a rooted device provides better understanding of its functionality, which results in better application development |
| 00:02.26 | geist | jazelle is going away in newer arms anyway |
| 00:02.37 | jbq | RyeBrye: nope, it's only really useful for another kind of virtual machine, which then needs to be pretty heavily designed to be ableto use it. |
| 00:02.39 | RyeBrye | For a technology with an even stupider name? |
| 00:02.45 | Gary|tp | languish: except theres thousands of posts about it |
| 00:02.49 | Gary|tp | and they're all the exact same thing |
| 00:02.54 | Gary|tp | "QQ I UPDATED HOW DOES I ROOT" |
| 00:02.56 | oyeoj | it squeeks for me right behind the red button |
| 00:03.04 | languish | Gary, so don't read them :) |
| 00:03.22 | oyeoj | anyway, i dont care that much. the hardware is pretty good for me |
| 00:03.28 | languish | It's the Internet, curring through the noise is necessary. |
| 00:03.35 | languish | *cutting |
| 00:03.50 | jbq | I claim that it's much easier to understand functionality by reading source code. |
| 00:03.52 | Gary|tp | if it's actual intellectual conversations about finding an exploit or downgrading, sure |
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| 00:04.20 | jbq | furthermore, the files that you'd need to understand Android better are world-readable on the G1. |
| 00:04.23 | languish | jbq, source code can be deceptive when it doesn't end up compiled for the device as is. |
| 00:04.36 | *** join/#android rabelais (n=blank@unaffiliated/rabelais) |
| 00:04.49 | languish | It's always nice and helpful to see things laid out on the functional product. |
| 00:05.01 | *** join/#android aufegu- (n=angu@116.41.93.89) |
| 00:05.12 | jbq | sure, like being able to read the files in /system |
| 00:05.12 | languish | Different people learn in different ways :) |
| 00:06.03 | sfuentes | yes ... like the too familiar osmosis method :) |
| 00:06.19 | RyeBrye | I'm having fun poking at the kernel and seeing why certain things aren't turned on yet... and then quickly turning them back off! :) |
| 00:06.19 | languish | mmMMmMmMM osmosis |
| 00:07.30 | languish | Also, the source code is incomplete. |
| 00:07.36 | languish | Due to legal issues |
| 00:07.43 | languish | and perhaps some security issues |
| 00:08.10 | waldo-g1 | how dio you jump through pages in irssi? |
| 00:08.19 | *** join/#android hackbert130 (n=paule@a17.engel.fr.studentenwohnheim-bw.de) |
| 00:08.25 | osmosis | sure |
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| 00:09.34 | jbq | languish: all the security issues I've been aware of with the code that's on the G1 were in components that had been open-sourced. |
| 00:09.57 | languish | waldo-g1, it depends on sending page up/down in your terminal app |
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| 00:10.22 | *** part/#android alansj_ (n=alansj@c-24-218-166-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 00:10.28 | languish | jbq, I mean along the lines of what's not open sources, like the market. |
| 00:10.33 | languish | *sourced |
| 00:10.35 | waldo-g1 | languish: hmmm |
| 00:10.50 | languish | waldo-g1, what terminal app are you using? (or ssh app) |
| 00:11.08 | waldo-g1 | i dont mean scrollback im using connectbot |
| 00:11.11 | jbq | yes, I haven't heard any security-related reason why those couldn't be open-sourced. |
| 00:11.25 | waldo-g1 | i mean switch to any msgs i may have |
| 00:12.11 | waldo-g1 | hrmmm |
| 00:12.52 | rabelais | is there really no eclipse 3.3+ support in ubuntu? does that mean I can't use the adt plugin? |
| 00:13.04 | languish | waldo-g1 depends on your irssi, if you have it going to a specific window.. then /win # |
| 00:13.10 | sfuentes | the future is bright ... tiny android machines across the horizon. life couldn't be more beautiful |
| 00:13.16 | incandenza | waldo-g1: I think double-tap trackball then number worked for me |
| 00:13.22 | waldo-g1 | thx |
| 00:13.25 | sfuentes | in the thousands |
| 00:13.31 | incandenza | that gave me an 'alt' keypress... not sure why (didn't seem to match the instructions) |
| 00:13.34 | sfuentes | i think i'll be a coder poet |
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| 00:14.12 | waldo-g1 | that worked! thx |
| 00:14.33 | languish | yeah, that's the same as using /win. alt-# = /win # |
| 00:16.18 | waldo-g1 | cool |
| 00:16.28 | languish | I'm really looking forward to the next big android release. Hopefully witha full BT implimentation |
| 00:16.30 | waldo-g1 | good to know |
| 00:16.54 | languish | waldo-g1 http://linuxreviews.org/software/irc/irssi/#toc6 |
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| 00:17.45 | languish | once you have more than 10 windows in irssi, you'll need /win # |
| 00:17.59 | languish | rather than alt # |
| 00:18.17 | brocktice | there's always c-n and c-p |
| 00:18.22 | brocktice | but that's not random-access |
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| 00:21.31 | b0nn | alt-q/w/e/r/t/y/u/i/o/p gets windows 11 - 20 |
| 00:21.46 | b0nn | alt -a gets you the 'active' window |
| 00:22.39 | sfuentes | languish: BT? |
| 00:22.45 | languish | bluetooth |
| 00:23.00 | sfuentes | languish: bt sucks right now? |
| 00:23.04 | sfuentes | mmann.... |
| 00:23.07 | brocktice | sfuentes: no A2DP |
| 00:23.09 | languish | it's limited |
| 00:23.17 | brocktice | no OBEX |
| 00:23.34 | sfuentes | that's fine |
| 00:23.38 | spikebike | no api...yet |
| 00:23.42 | brocktice | no support for activation of voice dialing with an on-device button |
| 00:23.42 | sfuentes | first release |
| 00:23.52 | sfuentes | spikebike! |
| 00:23.57 | brocktice | Sure, but that's why people would want improvement in the next release. |
| 00:24.01 | sfuentes | good to see u |
| 00:24.03 | andyross | There *is* an API, the bluez stack is on the phone. But you have to write native code to get to it. |
| 00:24.26 | spikebike | im at a park |
| 00:24.46 | sfuentes | spikebike: success on rc30? |
| 00:24.53 | b0nn | hrm, if I want to code a hello world application for android, and I just want to use a text editor, what do I have to do to get things to compile? |
| 00:25.13 | brocktice | Seeing as they couldn't manage to fit a 3.5 mm jack on the device, A2DP would have been a good thing to have at launch. |
| 00:25.17 | spikebike | ya x2 |
| 00:25.33 | spikebike | i update the docsas well |
| 00:25.40 | sfuentes | nice |
| 00:25.52 | b0nn | eg. do I have to change classpath?, do I have to compile in a specific directory, etc? |
| 00:25.53 | sfuentes | we should throw a party |
| 00:25.53 | andyross | b0nn: there's an activitycreator (sp?) generator script you can use. Then you can read the awful generated Ant build.xml file and write your own makefile using the same tools. :) |
| 00:26.00 | sfuentes | i'm next |
| 00:26.12 | sfuentes | i finally got an update request/notice |
| 00:26.19 | andyross | Say no |
| 00:26.22 | sfuentes | i was feeling leftout for a bit |
| 00:26.28 | andyross | Say no |
| 00:26.31 | sfuentes | i did. twice already |
| 00:26.36 | DarkriftX | OTA = meth, you want to try it, but once you do, your fucked |
| 00:26.50 | spikebike | ya ota rc30 is evil |
| 00:26.51 | sfuentes | DarkriftX: nice analogy |
| 00:26.53 | b0nn | ok, thanks |
| 00:26.54 | andyross | OK. Now go install the rooted RC30. At some point, you're going to want it. |
| 00:27.06 | brocktice | Those prompts get annoying quickly |
| 00:27.11 | brocktice | That'll be the main reason. |
| 00:27.15 | DarkriftX | they wont stay prompts for long |
| 00:27.35 | DarkriftX | pretty soon they are just "thank you for giving us your root" messages |
| 00:27.35 | brocktice | They will if you have a modified recovery image. |
| 00:27.53 | DarkriftX | ahh |
| 00:27.54 | spikebike | or just move otacerts |
| 00:28.00 | andyross | Indeed. I followed a broken set of instructions to disable updates, and discovered that the update got pushed anyway overnight and killed my /system partition. Had to recover from RC29. |
| 00:28.06 | DarkriftX | i figured if you had modified recovery, you had modified rc30 |
| 00:28.14 | brocktice | Suppose so. |
| 00:28.25 | brocktice | I actually got sick of mucking around with it and reverted to stock, let it install rc30. |
| 00:28.55 | brocktice | If I had more time to roll new images myself and whatnot I would have stuck with it. |
| 00:29.02 | DarkriftX | you wont have to |
| 00:29.06 | spikebike | nest is to upgrade |
| 00:29.08 | DarkriftX | im hosting all the custom ones on my site |
| 00:29.09 | spikebike | b |
| 00:29.13 | andyross | Ouch. You realize you can't go back, right? So when someone comes up with a really cool hack requiring root (a tethered wifi AP, etc...) you're left out? |
| 00:29.13 | brocktice | ah well |
| 00:29.32 | brocktice | andyross: Sure. |
| 00:29.46 | brocktice | Partly I figure unless there's another exploit there's going to be a very limited subset of people with root. |
| 00:30.07 | brocktice | Therefore limited interest in creating and maintaining root-only type hacks. |
| 00:30.12 | RyeBrye | yeah, a second wave of people might start to try and find another exploit |
| 00:30.19 | brocktice | Anyone who buys a device now will not get root with the old method. |
| 00:30.20 | andyross | FWIW, I managed to crash my phone today playing with native OpenGL stuff. So there's at least one more plausibly exploitable bug in there. |
| 00:30.23 | spikebike | maybe |
| 00:30.23 | brocktice | Assuming it's updated. |
| 00:30.59 | andyross | New phones in boxes no doubt still have RC19 (or RC28, apparently there are some of those too). It takes a while for a new image to make it all the way through production. |
| 00:31.06 | brocktice | So, a little part of me was sad when root went away. |
| 00:31.30 | brocktice | But I've got a new baby and plenty of other stuff to do, including working on K-9 now and then, so it wasn't for me for now. |
| 00:33.40 | sfuentes | so what's the worst thing you can do with modified rc30? |
| 00:33.59 | languish | someone needs to ban whoever wrote that t-mobile hotspot app from ever coding again. |
| 00:34.09 | andyross | worst? Someone ported debian, I read somewhere. I guess that counts. |
| 00:34.16 | spikebike | i attempted to lower |
| 00:34.25 | spikebike | the barrier to entry |
| 00:34.42 | andyross | Asked this in the dev channel without an answer, maybe someone here knows: |
| 00:34.43 | andyross | Is there a way to launch an application from the shell? Debugging on the phone is getting tiresome, having to build and install packages, then reach over and click on the desktop. It would be much faster if I could just dump files in place and script the startup. |
| 00:34.43 | spikebike | new docs should take 10 min ot so |
| 00:34.47 | *** join/#android unix_infidel (n=blue@unaffiliated/unixinfidel/x-8383745) |
| 00:36.10 | b0nn | so, how do I compile one of the example applications? |
| 00:36.21 | Laz | andy why is debian the worst thing to happen |
| 00:37.40 | *** part/#android xtort- (n=xtort-@38.99.65.203) |
| 00:37.48 | sfuentes | where can i find my restore cd? :D |
| 00:38.26 | sfuentes | no but seriously, if something gets fubared in the process, i can restore from a recovery image, right? |
| 00:40.19 | *** join/#android rubyonlinux (n=jeremy@c-24-22-16-107.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 00:40.40 | languish | ugh |
| 00:41.10 | languish | this is the 5th G1 I've had to remove this piece of shit t-mobile app from and fix the APN settings |
| 00:42.46 | *** join/#android dan_winckler (n=dan@sdsl-104-051.dsl.bway.net) |
| 00:43.58 | sfuentes | languish: the hotspot app? |
| 00:44.20 | languish | sfuentes, yes |
| 00:45.58 | languish | for some reason, when the phone seeks to reconnect to 3g/voice service from a dead zone, the fucking thing tries to connect to wifi instead, which means killing the 3g |
| 00:46.10 | languish | and appearently all voice connectivity too |
| 00:47.17 | brocktice | languish: what does it screw up in the APNs? |
| 00:47.48 | languish | this is what it does every time I/ActivityManager( 47): Start proc com.tmobile.wifi for broadcast com.tmobile.wifi/.client.WifiBroadcastReceiver |
| 00:47.59 | *** join/#android spearce (n=spearce@nat/google/x-981328db19ab8504) |
| 00:49.37 | Damm | you have the t-mobile hotspot app loaded? |
| 00:50.06 | Damm | personally I leave wifi off unless i'm using it. |
| 00:50.19 | languish | Damm, wifi is off when this happens |
| 00:50.21 | brocktice | I had read somewhere that you needed it for wifi access at hotspots |
| 00:50.28 | brocktice | Since they turned off normal login access |
| 00:50.32 | brocktice | grumples |
| 00:50.39 | brocktice | grumbles even |
| 00:50.59 | Damm | languish, mine seems to be decent when I come out of the Metro Tunnels |
| 00:51.05 | languish | yes, and it's a known problem |
| 00:51.06 | Damm | by the time I hit the top escalator it's back |
| 00:51.16 | Damm | not as good as my AT&T phone |
| 00:51.20 | Damm | but *shrug* |
| 00:51.35 | languish | Damm, yeah, I don't know why it affects some and not others |
| 00:51.45 | languish | but as I said, looking through forums, it's a known issue |
| 00:51.53 | *** join/#android dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-24-130-144-56.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 00:51.59 | languish | my wife's g1 isn't modded either |
| 00:52.20 | Damm | I live in Seattle fyi, and yeah the coverage for T-Mobile is 50/50 |
| 00:52.25 | Damm | some areas it's not even worth trying |
| 00:52.47 | Damm | Bus ride home is 10minutes of it going from 3G to EDGE to GPRS to 3G to EDGE to GPRS |
| 00:52.55 | languish | :| |
| 00:53.18 | Damm | oh heck it takes about 15minutes for GPS to lock on |
| 00:53.20 | Damm | if it does |
| 00:53.24 | languish | WA.. maybe they just want to punish microsoft employees :P |
| 00:53.25 | brocktice | ditto here |
| 00:53.47 | Damm | <-- not a microsoft employee |
| 00:53.51 | brocktice | on the gps issue |
| 00:53.54 | andyross | In the Portland west suburbs it's actually pretty good. Occasionally drops to EDGE, and I've never seen a GPRS connection. |
| 00:53.54 | languish | collateral damage |
| 00:53.56 | MichaelJE2 | it takes about 30 seconds for gps to lock on for me |
| 00:54.07 | brocktice | I've had it lock in 30 seconds |
| 00:54.10 | brocktice | I've also had it never lock |
| 00:54.23 | brocktice | Even outside with no nearby trees |
| 00:54.31 | brocktice | Other times it locks inside my house not even close to a window |
| 00:54.32 | brocktice | mysterious |
| 00:54.36 | MichaelJE2 | it never locks in my house.. it's always 30 seconds or less outside (obviously not going to lock inside) |
| 00:54.51 | andyross | GPS is just like that. The satellite configuration is constantly changing. |
| 00:55.28 | Damm | andyross, yep |
| 00:55.41 | Damm | I have a Sony Ericsson Z750a which has GPS... and it has the same issue |
| 00:55.47 | Damm | so I'm not blaming the G1 at all |
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| 00:56.02 | Damm | I just wish you could lock GPS on... so it could lockoon |
| 00:56.03 | brocktice | My Foretrex locks on pretty quickly |
| 00:56.06 | brocktice | Although not inside. |
| 00:56.17 | brocktice | Unless I've moved across the country between power-ons or something. |
| 00:56.27 | brocktice | I've never tried it indoors. |
| 00:56.29 | brocktice | shrugs |
| 00:56.37 | *** join/#android Gary|thinkpad (n=Gary1357@c-66-41-234-235.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 00:58.07 | `vip | michaelnovakjr you about ? |
| 00:59.56 | *** join/#android Gary|tp (n=Gary1357@c-66-41-234-235.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 01:04.47 | *** join/#android michaelnovakjr_ (n=chatzill@ool-18ba6e83.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 01:06.24 | KNY | is there some sort of standardized gesture recognition? like swipes and such? |
| 01:06.47 | romainguy | GestureDetector |
| 01:07.44 | KNY | awesome, thanks |
| 01:08.02 | umdk1d3 | grr " Gmail voice and video chat is not yet available for Linux. " <-- fail >:/ |
| 01:15.02 | *** join/#android Gary|thinkpad (n=Gary1357@c-66-41-234-235.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 01:16.42 | KNY | when using a TabHost, how can I stop it from changing the tab every time the orientation changes? |
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| 01:17.53 | mib_dg6fw6zg | no one talks in here? |
| 01:18.25 | *** part/#android mib_dg6fw6zg (i=4735acf1@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-22f1650f27c34941) |
| 01:18.52 | Dougie187 | not really |
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| 01:20.40 | Neverende1 | no one talks in here. |
| 01:20.41 | Neverende1 | ever. |
| 01:20.46 | KNY | shut up! |
| 01:20.54 | Neverende1 | oh sorry |
| 01:21.09 | Neverende1 | shhh |
| 01:21.29 | chouman82 | wat's the difference between the contextmenu and the optionmenu? |
| 01:21.53 | KNY | just a guess, but is context menu the thing that pops up on a long press? |
| 01:22.04 | chouman82 | that's wat i am trying to figure out |
| 01:22.18 | sfuentes | Neverende1: this is a library man! keep ur voice down |
| 01:22.31 | melvinram | I'm trying to run a hello world app but it seems to get stuck... here's my code n output from console: http://www.pastie.org/312711 |
| 01:22.58 | sfuentes | Neverende1: j/k btw |
| 01:23.12 | KNY | melvinram, nothing wrong with the code, as far as I can see |
| 01:23.16 | Neverende1 | Oh i thought it really was a library. |
| 01:23.35 | sfuentes | i'm thinking of committing last touches to reiser4 patches for android |
| 01:24.05 | melvinram | Any ideas on why it won't run? |
| 01:24.25 | KNY | melvinram, I'd guess something wrong with your emulator installation but I have no idea, to be honest |
| 01:24.25 | xavd | melvinram: it's not a code issue. It looks like adb is losing its connection to the emulator |
| 01:25.06 | xavd | if you simply launch the emulator manually, does DDMS (inside eclipse, open the DDMS perspective) see it? Does 'adb devices' in a terminal see it? |
| 01:25.31 | *** join/#android shackan (n=frob@host222-91-dynamic.9-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 01:26.16 | melvinram | My Android Development Tols & Android Editors inside Eclipse is a version 0.8.0 v200809220836-110569 ... is that what you guys have? |
| 01:26.32 | xavd | yes this is the latest |
| 01:26.52 | melvinram | weird |
| 01:27.13 | sfuentes | melvin: like the name |
| 01:27.23 | xavd | again, this is not an Eclipse problem issue. the plugin relies on adb to talk to the emulator |
| 01:27.34 | xavd | it looks like adb and the emulator are being disconnected somehow |
| 01:27.44 | melvinram | sfuentes: what name? melvin or hello world? |
| 01:28.24 | sfuentes | melvin |
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| 01:28.27 | *** mode/#android [+o cbeust] by ChanServ |
| 01:28.29 | sfuentes | its alien like |
| 01:28.37 | melvinram | lol thanks i think |
| 01:28.43 | sfuentes | melvin and android go together |
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| 01:29.33 | melvinram | i just got my g1 so i figured i'd tinker with android |
| 01:29.50 | spikebike | melvinram which release? |
| 01:30.22 | melvinram | spikebike: what do you mean? the g1? or the android sdk? or something else? |
| 01:30.55 | *** join/#android rubyonlinux (n=jeremy@c-24-22-16-107.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 01:31.14 | spikebike | the android software version |
| 01:31.36 | melvinram | i dunno... how do I find out? |
| 01:32.13 | spikebike | have you installed any cut? |
| 01:32.29 | melvinram | any cut? |
| 01:32.39 | melvinram | i'm guessing now |
| 01:32.39 | KNY | melvinram, from the home, hit "Menu" then settings |
| 01:32.40 | melvinram | no |
| 01:32.42 | KNY | then scroll to the bottom |
| 01:32.52 | KNY | there's an "About"; select that |
| 01:32.56 | melvinram | oh, you mean on the g1 |
| 01:33.02 | spikebike | ya |
| 01:33.06 | spikebike | any cut is from the market |
| 01:34.03 | melvinram | build number is 1.0 TC4-RC!( 109652 |
| 01:34.18 | melvinram | *build number is 1.0 TC4-RC19 109652 |
| 01:35.00 | spikebike | ah, good |
| 01:35.07 | spikebike | you can get root |
| 01:35.14 | *** part/#android yakischloba (n=jake@c-24-22-171-214.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 01:35.25 | spikebike | but tmo will likely offer you an upgrade to rc30 that will prevent root |
| 01:35.45 | *** join/#android bojangles (n=bojangle@c-98-226-6-195.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 01:35.48 | spikebike | so you can either accept it, or upgrade to a modded rc30 |
| 01:35.52 | melvinram | why do I care about getting "root"? |
| 01:36.22 | melvinram | I mean, can't you download apps onto your phone for free anyway |
| 01:36.34 | KNY | spikebike, if I do a factory reset, does it undo updates that have come since it came from the factory? |
| 01:36.51 | KNY | melvinram, yeah, but if you're a tinkerer, then there are some things you can't do |
| 01:36.59 | KNY | I personally didn't do it because I don't care that much |
| 01:37.33 | rwhitby | depends whether you consider android an open phone platform, or just a nice gui and apps on a normal closed device. |
| 01:38.04 | rwhitby | tmobile obviously considers it the latter :-) |
| 01:38.06 | melvinram | rwhitby: personally i consider it a phone |
| 01:38.06 | sfuentes | how much time do i have before those bigwigs install rc30 on my g1? |
| 01:38.18 | rwhitby | melvinram: in that case, you don't need root |
| 01:38.25 | sfuentes | w/o my consent |
| 01:38.25 | KNY | sfuentes, it prompts before installing |
| 01:38.30 | KNY | sfuentes, ahh, no idea |
| 01:38.38 | sfuentes | i've already said later 3 times |
| 01:38.56 | rwhitby | they'll wear you down :-) |
| 01:38.58 | sfuentes | so i'm running on the clock |
| 01:39.16 | sfuentes | i'm going to try and do mod rc30 when i get home |
| 01:39.30 | melvinram | my emulator gets stuck at "Waiting for HOME ('android.process.acore') to be launched..." |
| 01:39.34 | sfuentes | if they don't install it before then |
| 01:40.26 | spikebike | sfuentes: just say no if offered |
| 01:40.29 | spikebike | er later |
| 01:40.34 | spikebike | sfuentes: did 2 last night, it went well |
| 01:40.44 | spikebike | and I updated the docs so it should be easier |
| 01:41.18 | sfuentes | spikebike: what docs? |
| 01:41.23 | xavd | melvinram: try to launch the emulator manually with -verbose to see what goes wrong. Also, what OS are you using? |
| 01:42.04 | melvinram | i think i've got it... something relating to this: http://groups.google.com/group/android-beginners/browse_thread/thread/755cc509134ae058/146842d2010430e2?lnk=raot |
| 01:42.32 | spikebike | http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root |
| 01:42.32 | melvinram | i thought i already had 1.0 but maybe not |
| 01:46.14 | Damm | well it is 1.0...rc19 |
| 01:46.33 | melvinram | Damm: was that for me? |
| 01:46.47 | Damm | never fear, there will be updates |
| 01:46.47 | xavd | Damm: I think he meant the version of the SDK, not of g1 |
| 01:46.51 | KNY | Damm, I think he means he doesn't have ---yeah |
| 01:46.57 | Damm | ah |
| 01:47.45 | `vip | romainguy was it you that recomended a java book the other day ??? |
| 01:49.34 | melvinram | No luck... that wasn't it |
| 01:50.06 | xavd | melvinram: did you try to see if DDMS/adb sees your emulator? |
| 01:51.17 | melvinram | how do I do that? |
| 01:51.35 | xavd | with your emulator launched. try "adb devices' in a terminal |
| 01:51.42 | xavd | (adb is in <sdk>/tools) |
| 01:52.25 | sfuentes | spikebike: i thank u very much for your contribution |
| 01:53.25 | *** join/#android ITechJunkie (n=trevor@ip72-198-61-100.ok.ok.cox.net) |
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| 01:54.20 | melvinram | xavd: emulator-5554 device |
| 01:54.26 | melvinram | xavd: so yes |
| 01:54.34 | Laz | I just got rc69 |
| 01:55.07 | spikebike | 69? |
| 01:55.25 | xavd | melvinram: ok, in Eclipse, open the DDMS perspective (Window > Open Perspective > Other... and find it under Android) |
| 01:55.33 | xavd | in the DDMS perspective there's a Device view |
| 01:56.10 | xavd | you should see your emulator in there. expand the tree item |
| 01:56.17 | xavd | what processes do you see? |
| 01:56.48 | xavd | (more specifically do you see android.process.acore?) |
| 01:57.09 | sfuentes | spikebike: is there a reason why we are simply renaming otacerts.zip instead of just deleting it? |
| 01:58.25 | melvinram | brb ... eclipse is giving an error when starting the emulator... gonna restart computer incase i messed something up |
| 01:58.33 | spikebike | a rename is reversable |
| 01:58.37 | melvinram | or incase something is running that should have closed |
| 01:58.37 | *** part/#android bojangles (n=bojangle@c-98-226-6-195.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 01:58.41 | *** join/#android bojangles (n=bojangle@c-98-226-6-195.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 01:58.44 | xavd | k |
| 01:59.19 | *** join/#android poetic_folly|G5_ (n=poetic_f@213-39.103-97.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 01:59.28 | sfuentes | so we still might need this ... interesting |
| 01:59.42 | sfuentes | better to be safe |
| 01:59.46 | *** part/#android rubyonlinux (n=jeremy@c-24-22-16-107.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 02:00.18 | spikebike | well it's small |
| 02:00.49 | *** join/#android melvinram (i=6262b126@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ea725bf7f60d7952) |
| 02:00.50 | spikebike | seems little benefit to delete it |
| 02:02.16 | *** join/#android dcordes (n=dcordes_@unaffiliated/dcordes) |
| 02:02.25 | *** join/#android rubyonlinux (n=jeremy@c-24-22-16-107.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 02:02.28 | dcordes | *cough* reboot *cough* hrmmrhm |
| 02:02.34 | sfuentes | what if something goes fubar in the process? I'm the paranoid type |
| 02:02.34 | *** part/#android dcordes (n=dcordes_@unaffiliated/dcordes) |
| 02:02.36 | melvinram | i'm not sure who said I should go into DDMS prospective but here is the LogCat that is outputted |
| 02:03.06 | melvinram | http://www.pastie.org/312741 |
| 02:03.07 | xavd | melvinram: logcat is of little use here. I'm more interested in the list of processes seen by ddms |
| 02:03.20 | sfuentes | i won't be stuck with a broken g1 indefinitely, right? |
| 02:03.27 | xavd | hmm wow, I take that back. |
| 02:04.06 | melvinram | hmm, processes? I see Devices, Emulator Control, Treads, Heap & File Explorer |
| 02:04.09 | spikebike | sf no, you can switch from modded to tmo |
| 02:04.13 | spikebike | but not vice versa |
| 02:04.22 | xavd | melvinram: what do you see in Devices? |
| 02:04.38 | xavd | it should be tree item that you can expand to see the processes |
| 02:04.44 | melvinram | emulator-5554 Online 1.0 |
| 02:04.57 | melvinram | its not a tree |
| 02:05.05 | melvinram | just one iteam |
| 02:05.09 | melvinram | *item |
| 02:05.17 | xavd | what exactly is displayed by the emulator? I'm guessing the boot screen? |
| 02:05.18 | *** join/#android freethink (n=berdote@adsl-224-41-51.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 02:05.32 | melvinram | yep |
| 02:05.52 | xavd | ok, kill that emulator, and from a terminal launch 'emulator -verbose' and put the output in pastie.org |
| 02:05.54 | melvinram | its says "ANDROID _" |
| 02:05.59 | xavd | what OS are you using? |
| 02:06.01 | sfuentes | spikebike: i mean, what if the the g1 mysteriously runs out of battery before flash_image recovery is done ? |
| 02:06.08 | melvinram | vista 64bit |
| 02:06.20 | sfuentes | is my rom screwed? |
| 02:06.22 | spikebike | sfuentes: oh, not really |
| 02:06.38 | spikebike | the recovery flash (or failure of) won't kill the phone (the normal partition is fine) |
| 02:06.42 | xavd | melvinram: is it the first you've ever used the SDK? |
| 02:06.47 | spikebike | and once that's done the 2nd partition needs flashed |
| 02:06.51 | *** join/#android krau_ (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.136) |
| 02:07.01 | spikebike | so having either partition working will avoid bricking |
| 02:07.36 | *** join/#android helloddp (n=chatzill@121.35.9.23) |
| 02:07.39 | melvinram | http://www.pastie.org/312744 |
| 02:07.49 | melvinram | yes |
| 02:07.52 | *** part/#android helloddp (n=chatzill@121.35.9.23) |
| 02:07.54 | sfuentes | thank god :D |
| 02:07.55 | melvinram | it's the first i've used it |
| 02:08.18 | spikebike | with that said, I'd make sure you hav decent battery before startin |
| 02:08.19 | spikebike | g |
| 02:08.31 | sfuentes | lol will have full battery |
| 02:08.44 | spikebike | even 50 should be plenty |
| 02:08.54 | xavd | melvinram: can you check the folder C:\Users\Mel\AppData\Local\An |
| 02:08.54 | xavd | droid\SDK-1.0\ exists? |
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| 02:09.49 | melvinram | yep |
| 02:09.52 | melvinram | it does |
| 02:10.01 | melvinram | C:\Users\Mel\AppData\Local\Android\SDK-1.0>ls |
| 02:10.12 | melvinram | default.keyset emulator.cfg userdata-qemu.img |
| 02:10.15 | xavd | k. can you quit eclipse and try to launch ddms from the command line (it's under <sdk>/tools) |
| 02:10.34 | xavd | launch it from a terminal, it's a bat file |
| 02:10.50 | melvinram | ls |
| 02:10.58 | melvinram | oops, that was for terminal |
| 02:11.31 | melvinram | It outputs: 'java' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file. |
| 02:11.50 | xavd | did you install a JDK? |
| 02:12.10 | KNY | does the JDK install set up your classpath? |
| 02:12.19 | KNY | it's been a while since I've installed Java |
| 02:12.26 | melvinram | does that come seperate from Eclipise? |
| 02:12.57 | xavd | Eclipse comes with it's own JRE but you need a JDK to develop for android |
| 02:13.05 | melvinram | ahh |
| 02:13.10 | melvinram | that must be it |
| 02:13.26 | melvinram | Can I just does the second one on http://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/index.jsp |
| 02:13.59 | xavd | this kind of a silly bug though. The emulator launches ddms when it starts, but it looks like if java isn't installed and ddms fails, it just hangs the emulator (which shouldn't happen obviously) |
| 02:14.15 | xavd | yeah 2nd link should be fine |
| 02:17.40 | elad | seems like my battery life is getting much longer |
| 02:17.52 | elad | i used my phone quite a bit today came home it was on 61% |
| 02:18.20 | sfuentes | spikebike: i see on t-mob they have: "400 domestic text, picture, e-mail, or instant messages" |
| 02:18.40 | sfuentes | i thought gtalk doesn't apply to the 400 |
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| 02:18.53 | melvinram | elad: how? my battery dies like a fish in a desert |
| 02:19.12 | spikebike | sfuentes: correct |
| 02:19.12 | null_ | Question: Any iota of news on the next batch of G1's? I broke my phone in half and need a replacement, but can't stand a recessed keyboard. |
| 02:19.48 | spikebike | seems to vary by phone |
| 02:19.53 | spikebike | I got 2 and they are pretty different |
| 02:20.06 | spikebike | how did you brake the phone/ |
| 02:20.07 | spikebike | ? |
| 02:20.12 | spikebike | better do it quick if you want root |
| 02:20.12 | null_ | (it wasn't a g1) |
| 02:20.15 | sfuentes | spikebike: so they made a mistake? |
| 02:20.16 | spikebike | oh |
| 02:20.31 | spikebike | ah |
| 02:20.54 | null_ | I don't really care as much about root as i need a laptop replacement phone since my laptop also died, and Android is super-appealing since i'm *nixy |
| 02:21.35 | spikebike | well without root it's not really *nixy |
| 02:21.41 | melvinram | yea, it's a laptop/pc replacement for me too ... except for typing |
| 02:22.07 | melvinram | word docs n other specialized stuff like design/programming/research/etc |
| 02:22.22 | melvinram | but for casual computing, it's a total resplacement |
| 02:22.23 | elad | melvinram, I need do like 3 calibrations |
| 02:22.26 | null_ | if i had a laptop i'd love it to be a tinker toy, but since i don't have a laptop i need it to be super-stable (aka latest updates to work out bugs) and high quality (good keyboard) |
| 02:22.29 | elad | need = did |
| 02:23.12 | null_ | if it has a browser and an ssh client, i don't really need anything more :) i was considering an e61, but it would be about $120 used vs $180 for a new g1 with much more fetures |
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| 02:24.47 | melvinram | Installed JDK but still same problem |
| 02:25.11 | melvinram | eerr i had android |
| 02:25.12 | melvinram | *hate |
| 02:25.58 | xavd | if you type java in a terminal it doesn't find it? |
| 02:26.42 | melvinram | no it finds it |
| 02:27.02 | xavd | so launching DDMS fails? |
| 02:27.34 | melvinram | http://www.pastie.org/312754 |
| 02:28.02 | melvinram | so i'm guessing android sdk doesn't work on 64bit |
| 02:28.06 | xavd | oh |
| 02:28.15 | xavd | ok try this |
| 02:28.18 | xavd | launch eclipse |
| 02:28.26 | melvinram | yep |
| 02:28.43 | xavd | go in the preferences, under android |
| 02:28.59 | xavd | under "usage stats" |
| 02:29.11 | *** part/#android Delvien (n=Delvien@cpe-75-180-28-178.columbus.res.rr.com) |
| 02:29.11 | xavd | change the check box (twice if you want to keep the same value) and click apply |
| 02:29.24 | Disconnect | ok so its OT but the ozzie osbourne phone ads are funny as hell |
| 02:29.33 | xavd | then close the pref dialog |
| 02:29.47 | xavd | now try to launch the emulator again. |
| 02:30.40 | melvinram | That's just gonna send the data to Google... wont fix my problem |
| 02:30.46 | melvinram | but i did it anyway |
| 02:30.48 | xavd | uncheck it doesn't matter |
| 02:31.25 | xavd | the point is that the first time you launch the emulator/ddms they try to ask you whether you want to send the data, which uses SWT. If you set it from Eclipse, then it shouldn't display it and ddms won't fail to launch |
| 02:31.45 | xavd | (the emulator exec ddms to do that display, which is what is messing up with the emulator launch) |
| 02:32.05 | melvinram | hmm |
| 02:32.10 | xavd | at least I think it should work. Not 100% sure |
| 02:33.28 | melvinram | didn't work |
| 02:33.34 | xavd | We've had people use the SDK on vista64 bit I don't know why it fail on your install |
| 02:33.46 | melvinram | hmm |
| 02:38.51 | xavd | melvinram: you installed the 64bit version of the JDK? |
| 02:42.41 | melvinram | yep |
| 02:42.46 | melvinram | i think i found the solution |
| 02:42.50 | melvinram | http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/9894b3ef3415570b/defd490ab40acbf9?lnk=gst&q=ddms#defd490ab40acbf9 |
| 02:43.12 | xavd | yeah that's why. SWT has no support for 64bit. you need the 32 bit version |
| 02:43.15 | melvinram | i'm downloading the file right now |
| 02:43.28 | melvinram | it does but it's for linux |
| 02:43.48 | melvinram | but the guy says if you download n unzip the linux version, it will work |
| 02:43.49 | P2E | so, all of my friends are freaking out about r30 |
| 02:43.50 | xavd | that thread is different it's linux. there is a 64 bit version of SWT (which unfortunatly we do not package with the SDK, we need to fix this |
| 02:43.55 | melvinram | so i'm giving it a try |
| 02:44.11 | xavd | what file are you downloading? |
| 02:44.18 | melvinram | xavd, you work for http://archive.eclipse.org/eclipse/downloads/drops/R-3.2-200606291905/download.php?dropFile=swt-3.2-gtk-linux-x86_64.zip |
| 02:44.30 | melvinram | oops, two messages got added together |
| 02:44.43 | xavd | that's the linux SWT version. It won't work on your windows box. SWT requires native component |
| 02:44.51 | melvinram | xavd: do you work for Google Android team? |
| 02:45.00 | xavd | SWT is a java based ui toolkit that is merely a wrapper over the native widgets |
| 02:45.01 | xavd | yes |
| 02:45.13 | xavd | so each platform needs a custom version of SWT |
| 02:45.21 | melvinram | well according to the guy that posted there, it worked so i'm giving it a shot |
| 02:46.10 | xavd | that guy is running linux |
| 02:47.10 | melvinram | but the title of the post is "DDMS & 64bit Windows" |
| 02:48.00 | melvinram | aarr ... no go... guess you were right |
| 02:48.01 | xavd | are you talking about http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/9894b3ef3415570b/defd490ab40acbf9?lnk=gst&q=ddms#defd490ab40acbf9 |
| 02:48.02 | xavd | ? |
| 02:48.15 | melvinram | yes |
| 02:48.34 | xavd | the title shows up as "ddms error" for me |
| 02:48.41 | xavd | no mention of windows |
| 02:49.09 | melvinram | oh, nevermind... i was looking at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/28fcb99fc6bb54df/c49e6ebd5c8b00b6?lnk=raot |
| 02:49.23 | xavd | I'll file a bug so that the system requirements at http://code.google.com/android/intro/installing.html mention the need for a 32 bit JVM |
| 02:49.57 | melvinram | so I can't use it on my 64bit machine? |
| 02:50.20 | xavd | oh I see the mixup. the answer to the 64bit windows is athread about linux :( |
| 02:50.27 | xavd | you should be able to run the 32bit JDK |
| 02:50.55 | xavd | Your install of eclipse, which comes with its own JRE is 32bit (since there's no 64 bit version of SWT yet) |
| 02:51.23 | melvinram | ?? but it won't work in Eclipse either |
| 02:51.44 | xavd | you mean the emulator won't work when launched from eclipse? this is normal |
| 02:51.51 | melvinram | i'm sorry for being a newbie n a pain |
| 02:52.18 | xavd | when the emulator launches, it launches DDMS in the background. DDMS does not care about the JRE from Eclipse, it uses the one installed on the system (which in your case is 64bit) |
| 02:52.25 | melvinram | the emulator won't work from elcipse ... it hangs at "Waiting for home... " |
| 02:52.39 | xavd | np, it's good for us to see those weird cases so that we can document them properly |
| 02:52.53 | melvinram | so when i install JDK 32bit, it should work, right? |
| 02:53.00 | xavd | so anyway, don't worry about the emulator launch. just get the 32 bit JDK |
| 02:53.01 | xavd | yes |
| 02:53.18 | melvinram | k |
| 02:55.06 | melvinram | It's downloading |
| 02:55.11 | melvinram | Btw, what's your name? |
| 02:55.45 | xavd | Xavier, why? |
| 02:55.57 | melvinram | Just curious, I'm Mel |
| 02:57.08 | sfuentes | his name is melvin |
| 02:57.16 | sfuentes | but he is not from mars |
| 02:57.49 | melvinram | lol |
| 02:58.08 | melvinram | That's Marvin |
| 02:58.43 | sfuentes | but it's so close! |
| 02:58.45 | sfuentes | :) |
| 02:59.15 | melvinram | I wish I could load Android onto my Curve |
| 02:59.26 | melvinram | *Blackberry Curve |
| 02:59.55 | melvinram | form factor is much better |
| 02:59.59 | sfuentes | that's blasphemy! |
| 03:00.26 | melvinram | lol |
| 03:00.27 | *** join/#android romainguy (n=gfx@69.36.227.135) |
| 03:00.46 | sfuentes | actually, i could use a better form factor |
| 03:01.23 | DJTachyon | my wife wants to get a BB Bold instead of a G1 now .. bah |
| 03:01.29 | sfuentes | what about android on my pc ... interesting |
| 03:01.49 | sfuentes | then she's gonna want the storm |
| 03:02.18 | DJTachyon | nah she hates touchscreen keybaords |
| 03:02.22 | DJTachyon | boards* |
| 03:02.46 | DJTachyon | she has an enV now .. and she was looking at a G1 with me .. but she can get a Bold for 1/2 price through work |
| 03:03.08 | *** join/#android romainguy_ (n=gfx@72.14.224.1) |
| 03:03.15 | DJTachyon | hola romainguy :) |
| 03:03.15 | melvinram | I think the storm will be a dud |
| 03:03.23 | DJTachyon | yeah i think its overrated |
| 03:03.39 | *** join/#android Leeds (n=richardc@n220246107224.netvigator.com) |
| 03:04.04 | *** join/#android andyross (n=andy@static-71-245-107-194.ptldor.fios.verizon.net) |
| 03:04.25 | melvinram | When it comes down to it, apps will make the device |
| 03:04.51 | melvinram | Android already has some really cool apps, with hopefully more to come... especially a better media player |
| 03:05.07 | DJTachyon | i heard a vlc port is in discussion ;) |
| 03:05.44 | melvinram | oh please no |
| 03:05.53 | melvinram | VLC is ugly like betty |
| 03:06.02 | melvinram | i want something slick |
| 03:06.10 | DJTachyon | slick or fast? |
| 03:06.15 | melvinram | both |
| 03:06.24 | DJTachyon | time will tell |
| 03:07.47 | DJTachyon | i rather have TCPMP than Windows Media Player |
| 03:08.03 | *** join/#android dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-24-130-144-56.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 03:09.03 | *** join/#android aggtrfrad (n=kjhfklhn@CPE0014bf3f862a-CM0018c0d9db72.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 03:09.47 | Leeds | yeah, but tcpmp is rather dead |
| 03:10.53 | sfuentes | ogg vorbis all the way! |
| 03:10.57 | DJTachyon | true .. but I came from a Moto Q before the G1 and it was leaps and bounds :) |
| 03:11.07 | DJTachyon | ogg = codec, not player :P |
| 03:11.39 | Leeds | DJTachyon: technically, ogg=container, vorbis=codec |
| 03:11.54 | *** join/#android dglazkov_ (n=dglazkov@72.14.224.1) |
| 03:12.01 | DJTachyon | indeed |
| 03:12.09 | DJTachyon | lol |
| 03:12.25 | DJTachyon | You are technically correct... the best kind of correct. |
| 03:13.07 | DJTachyon | finally! just got an OTA update notice |
| 03:13.12 | trigatch4 | DJTachyon i hate you |
| 03:13.12 | trigatch4 | i am still on RC19 |
| 03:13.17 | DJTachyon | so was I |
| 03:13.29 | DJTachyon | and I am getting a new G1 in the next couple days |
| 03:13.30 | DJTachyon | :P |
| 03:13.35 | trigatch4 | why? |
| 03:13.40 | Leeds | can I just check... OTA updates only happen on t-mobile? |
| 03:13.49 | DJTachyon | the accelerometer/compass package was b0rked when I got it |
| 03:13.50 | trigatch4 | i wonder if being on a WiFi network has an effect on whether you get your OTA update |
| 03:14.03 | romainguy_ | trigatch4: you can get OTAs over WiFi |
| 03:14.15 | trigatch4 | okay thanks... cause i'm almost always on WiFi |
| 03:14.18 | jbq | trigatch4: it doesn't (but it makes the download much much faster if you're over wifi when the download triggers) |
| 03:14.22 | DJTachyon | i have been on the phone over and over trying to get another one |
| 03:14.28 | romainguy_ | but OTAs are not sent to all devices at once |
| 03:14.33 | trigatch4 | yeah |
| 03:14.38 | trigatch4 | 2,000/day or something is what i've heard |
| 03:14.39 | melvinram | xavd: i downloaded and installed the 32 jdk but still no go |
| 03:15.01 | trigatch4 | unfortunately, it seems like they're going through the same cycle or something |
| 03:15.13 | melvinram | http://www.pastie.org/312754 |
| 03:15.14 | trigatch4 | by the time RC29 updating happens, RC30 comes out |
| 03:15.23 | trigatch4 | and they start the RC30 updates with the same people |
| 03:15.23 | DJTachyon | flashing now ... |
| 03:15.30 | aggtrfrad | im executing busy box as root, but it runs under uid 10033 :/ |
| 03:16.20 | sfuentes | is busybox useful? |
| 03:16.32 | *** join/#android aquarist_2006 (n=aquarist@crlspr-24.233.180.228.myacc.net) |
| 03:16.37 | romainguy_ | sfuentes: it depends |
| 03:16.48 | romainguy_ | if you are not a nutjob, no :)))))) |
| 03:17.21 | Neverende1 | its very useful for us nutjobs though |
| 03:18.28 | `vip | trying to install the Android Dev tool plugin |
| 03:18.30 | `vip | and i get this error |
| 03:18.33 | `vip | No repository found at https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/ |
| 03:18.33 | `vip | Error reading update site https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/. |
| 03:18.34 | `vip | Unconnected sockets not implemented |
| 03:18.43 | *** join/#android orci_ (n=orci@24-177-53-93.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) |
| 03:19.11 | orci_ | can t-mobile charge for market applications? |
| 03:19.23 | `vip | in 09 |
| 03:19.30 | `vip | devs can |
| 03:19.46 | orci_ | is market apps hosted by t-mob or google |
| 03:20.15 | sfuentes | i'm pretty sure its google |
| 03:20.30 | spikebike | tmo might have their own store |
| 03:20.52 | orci_ | "T-Mobile says that all apps are free until 2009." I thought t-mobile would be charging after that |
| 03:21.00 | Leeds | yeah, it's google... isn't there already at least one other third-party store? |
| 03:21.15 | orci_ | is there? |
| 03:21.27 | orci_ | can we add other repositories? |
| 03:21.51 | orci_ | can we see licenses of market apps? |
| 03:22.52 | Leeds | the 'Android Market' only goes to one repository... but anyone else can build an app which provides a storefront, installs apps, etc. |
| 03:23.10 | Leeds | although I guess you'd need non-Market app support turned on |
| 03:23.54 | orci_ | Leeds, what do I lose if turn that feature on? |
| 03:23.57 | *** join/#android raidfive (n=adam@c-71-236-205-80.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 03:23.57 | languish | ugh, just got off the phone with a tier 2 tmo G1 "specialist" and he was clueless. Even told me they only get about an hour with the G1 in a large classroom with only 20 devices. And this was on an escalated call, related to a problem with their T-Mobile Hotspot App |
| 03:24.15 | spikebike | heh |
| 03:24.21 | Leeds | orci_: support, warranty, your soul - I dunno, I'm well outside the support model already |
| 03:24.26 | languish | They barely have an understanding of the difference between a hotspot, and their hotspot app |
| 03:24.32 | languish | TMO - I FAIl YOU |
| 03:24.32 | Damm | languish, still trying to find help with your issue? |
| 03:24.39 | spikebike | I had it identify my local AP ( a linksys running openwrt) as a T-mobile hotspot |
| 03:24.44 | Damm | languish, I'd stop calling T-Mo now... you know more then they do. |
| 03:24.57 | languish | damn, their answer is "reset the phone, it fixes all the problems" |
| 03:25.05 | *** join/#android romainguy (n=gfx@72.14.224.1) |
| 03:25.24 | Damm | languish, my woman works for T-Mobile (not in the G1 Department) and yes they really are that stupid. |
| 03:25.37 | Damm | languish, basically if it's not in their knowledgebase... there is no answer |
| 03:25.43 | languish | but my wife has an app that will lose data she doesn't want to lose, that isn't stored in the cloud. So, I'm going to contact the developer and see if there's a way to export it, and reimport it |
| 03:26.03 | Damm | :( |
| 03:26.05 | languish | Damn, there was an answer on the t-mobile forums, but because it included editing the APN settings, they removed it. |
| 03:26.10 | spikebike | seems kinda strange to fight root, yet not provide device backups |
| 03:26.13 | DJTachyon | wow this replacement phone is never going to happen |
| 03:26.20 | DJTachyon | im getting pretty frustated |
| 03:26.21 | languish | DJTachyon ? |
| 03:26.26 | Damm | languish, you need the APN? |
| 03:26.30 | languish | Damn, no.. |
| 03:26.30 | Damm | languish, it's epc.t-mobile.com |
| 03:26.33 | languish | I know |
| 03:26.36 | languish | thanks :) |
| 03:26.37 | DJTachyon | languish: i still haven't gotten my replacement |
| 03:26.37 | *** join/#android michaelnovakjr_ (n=chatzill@pool-96-224-190-168.nycmny.east.verizon.net) |
| 03:26.50 | Damm | sorry if i wasn't paying attention to answer better |
| 03:26.53 | languish | DJTachyon, ouch. If you want help with that.. |
| 03:27.02 | languish | Damn, sokay man :) |
| 03:27.13 | languish | I got it covered. I'm just going through the "correct" procedures |
| 03:27.13 | DJTachyon | 4+ calls to the return center, they keep saying it something about duplicate orders, or backorders, or issues with how it was put in the system |
| 03:27.23 | languish | because it's my wife's phone and she wants everything done on the up and up |
| 03:27.53 | DJTachyon | heh .. |
| 03:27.56 | DJTachyon | i don't know what to do |
| 03:28.14 | languish | otherwise I'd just read out the data from the db, reset, reinstall her app, and repopulate the data |
| 03:28.28 | languish | DJTachyon, /msg |
| 03:29.01 | Damm | languish, sadly if you had root that would be really easy. |
| 03:29.56 | languish | damn, yeah, I'm capable of handling it the smart way, but this is my wife's phone with the problem, so I'm handling it the t-mobile way. Then I'll blog about it. |
| 03:29.57 | languish | :D |
| 03:30.18 | Damm | languish, you like punishment |
| 03:30.19 | Damm | lol |
| 03:30.25 | DJTachyon | hehe |
| 03:31.52 | languish | Well, I do a little consumer evangelism as a hobby |
| 03:32.07 | *** join/#android ALoGeNoFF (n=QUAKEIII@89.Red-79-148-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 03:32.09 | languish | Small issues, big change, better tomorrow.. |
| 03:32.29 | Damm | ah, well let me tell you T-Mobile won't change. They outsource 99% of their infrastructure. |
| 03:32.35 | Damm | but your more then welcome to try |
| 03:32.40 | languish | I'm rather familar with tmo :) |
| 03:33.01 | languish | A NY master dealer was one of my clients for a few years |
| 03:33.20 | Damm | I used to work in the hidden recesses of T-Mobile |
| 03:33.22 | languish | and I've been a GSM customer in NY form before TMO came in in 2000 |
| 03:33.30 | Damm | right voicestream |
| 03:33.33 | Damm | and before that... |
| 03:33.46 | languish | and Omnipoint :) |
| 03:33.51 | DJTachyon | oh omni .. |
| 03:33.51 | melvinram | I give up |
| 03:33.52 | languish | and before omnipoint, apple :) |
| 03:33.58 | melvinram | Android is not working for me |
| 03:34.01 | melvinram | :( |
| 03:34.13 | Damm | melvinram, ? |
| 03:34.15 | languish | apple cellular, not Apple computers |
| 03:34.32 | Damm | languish, it doesn't matter if your with them for 90 years... they treat you like they want to at that moment. |
| 03:34.38 | languish | yep |
| 03:34.41 | languish | well aware |
| 03:34.49 | DJTachyon | I used antennasearch.com to find the owner of the planned tower going in behind where I work .. emailed him, his secretary called me back and I found out Verizon, AT&T, and Omnipoint are going on the tower :P |
| 03:34.52 | languish | f'ing mormon execs. |
| 03:34.53 | Damm | they would have more customer satisfaction then... resolved customers |
| 03:34.57 | DJTachyon | I'm like Omni? hah .. |
| 03:34.59 | melvinram | Damm: http://pastie.org/312796 |
| 03:35.28 | Damm | DJTachyon, depending how old the tower is.. the lease was never updated |
| 03:35.29 | languish | DJTachyon, yeah.. tmo still uses omnipoint in name for alot of shit |
| 03:35.46 | Damm | melvinram, you run 64bit windows? |
| 03:35.49 | DJTachyon | apparently :) |
| 03:35.52 | melvinram | yep |
| 03:35.52 | Damm | well clearly you do from that message |
| 03:35.58 | Damm | time to install 32bit windows |
| 03:36.03 | languish | There are townships that never heard of t-mobile |
| 03:36.06 | melvinram | ehh no thanks |
| 03:36.13 | languish | when you roam in them, it says Omnipoint |
| 03:36.21 | melvinram | i'll just pass on tinkering with Android |
| 03:36.24 | Damm | is there even adb driver for 64bit? |
| 03:36.32 | Damm | last I heard no |
| 03:36.34 | languish | even their billing still says omnipoint |
| 03:36.38 | DJTachyon | hehe |
| 03:36.43 | melvinram | I have no idea |
| 03:36.53 | Damm | languish, just like they still have the old stuff in their systems that call themselves voicestream |
| 03:36.54 | jbq | no adb driver for windows 64-bit. |
| 03:37.03 | DJTachyon | well ill set a google calendar reminder to call again tomorrow morning |
| 03:37.04 | Damm | so melvinram's boned. |
| 03:37.39 | melvinram | apparentlyy |
| 03:37.42 | Damm | don't feel bad the ppc users are screaming also. |
| 03:38.24 | melvinram | i have another machine ... might give it a swing over there |
| 03:38.34 | melvinram | but thats dumb |
| 03:38.41 | Damm | melvinram, that or loadup vmware and ubuntu 32bit |
| 03:39.04 | melvinram | tried that on my machine but it didnt work |
| 03:39.16 | melvinram | well i tried it with virtualbox |
| 03:39.29 | Damm | well ddms should, as long as you connect your phone in... if your using the emulator it should be a snap |
| 03:39.35 | Damm | adb devices should show the emulator. |
| 03:39.36 | DJTachyon | if I make it to this weekend with no info on the order, I am going to the store and demanding a replacement |
| 03:39.59 | melvinram | no i couldn't install ubuntu 32bit |
| 03:40.09 | *** join/#android sodenrox (n=email@68-116-145-96.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) |
| 03:40.46 | ttuttle | Hey. |
| 03:40.58 | ttuttle | I need a way to do an HTTP request that times out if it is not answered within a certain amount of time. Any ideas? |
| 03:40.59 | Damm | sup ttuttle |
| 03:41.03 | ttuttle | Damm: Not much. |
| 03:41.11 | *** join/#android spackest1 (n=judi@c-76-23-34-252.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 03:43.15 | *** join/#android macboz (n=kozen@n058152051095.netvigator.com) |
| 03:44.52 | ttuttle | Question: If a location provider is not working, does it "pile up" expected updates and then spam you with them? Because I registered a gps LocationListener with 15 second interval, and I'm getting one every second or so after the GPS was off for a while. |
| 03:45.24 | spackest1 | anyone interested in making a bid for some "rather simple" sidework? |
| 03:46.34 | languish | spackest1, on android or? |
| 03:46.54 | languish | oh, .ut |
| 03:46.57 | languish | sorry |
| 03:47.41 | languish | I avoid doing business with mormon country. No offense. Just too many headaches in the past couple of years from out that way |
| 03:47.55 | languish | and yet I use t-mobile |
| 03:47.58 | languish | *sigh* |
| 03:48.07 | Leeds | you don't like Mormons or Germans? |
| 03:48.17 | spackest1 | languish: yeah, android and yes, I live in good old utah |
| 03:48.23 | spackest1 | does that show up somewhere? |
| 03:48.30 | Leeds | spackest1: in your hostname |
| 03:48.35 | spackest1 | ah |
| 03:48.50 | Leeds | you're also called judi :-) |
| 03:48.54 | languish | I don't like overly polite, completely useless self-righteous assholes trying to rip me off in the name of jesus |
| 03:48.55 | orci | I see there is googleearth for iphone, is one coming for android as well? |
| 03:49.02 | spackest1 | that's the mrs |
| 03:49.08 | spackest1 | only have one though :) |
| 03:49.46 | spackest1 | languish: perhaps a rather broad swipe, but there you go |
| 03:49.47 | languish | I have friends in Utah, I'm just no longer doing business if possible with randoms from the region. |
| 03:49.47 | michaelnovakjr_ | smells a new yorker in here |
| 03:50.00 | languish | :D |
| 03:50.17 | Leeds | languish: so, out of interest, how do you connect utah with t-mobile? |
| 03:50.28 | languish | native New Yorkers in NYC, tend tend to be very helpful people. |
| 03:50.31 | spackest1 | I think I need to just get in there and cut some code |
| 03:50.52 | michaelnovakjr_ | is a native new yorker |
| 03:50.59 | languish | Leeds, the majority of T-mobiles upper echelons, including the CEO are devout mormons. |
| 03:51.04 | languish | Mostly from Utah |
| 03:51.16 | Leeds | except for the face that it's a German company? |
| 03:51.22 | Damm | morons |
| 03:51.22 | Leeds | fact |
| 03:51.23 | Damm | get it right |
| 03:51.26 | Damm | Leeds, no it's not |
| 03:51.31 | melvinram | Okay, I made some progress |
| 03:51.38 | Damm | Leeds, Deutchekom owns a 20% holding in the company |
| 03:51.47 | languish | tmo USA is not directly run from germany, and the CEO of tmo USA did do his pilgramage in germany :) |
| 03:51.47 | Damm | pardon my obvious incorrect spelling |
| 03:52.00 | Leeds | okay... t-mobile globally is a German company |
| 03:52.04 | melvinram | I got SWT for vista64 from http://forum.vuze.com/thread.jspa?threadID=63569&tstart=0 |
| 03:52.15 | languish | Damn, wasn't it a 30% holding they got smacked down for recently because it's more than the legal limit for a foreign interest? |
| 03:52.22 | languish | :D |
| 03:52.31 | Leeds | ah, good old American closed markets |
| 03:52.42 | Damm | languish, yes they had 30%, they could only have 20% |
| 03:52.52 | languish | Leeds, you think the German market, or Japanese, or most European markets are any less closed? |
| 03:53.06 | Leeds | the european markets are relatively open to each other, yes |
| 03:53.08 | languish | One way, or another, they're gonna getcha... |
| 03:53.12 | *** join/#android jbq (n=jbq@72.14.224.1) |
| 03:53.25 | languish | Leeds, that's like saying most US states are open to eachother |
| 03:53.34 | Leeds | nope |
| 03:53.37 | Leeds | anyway, very off-topic |
| 03:53.47 | Leeds | started with you refusing to take work from someone in Utah :-P |
| 03:54.03 | languish | And in reality, in European countries do a great deal of balancing at the state level |
| 03:54.07 | languish | in/;the |
| 03:54.13 | spackest1 | betting I couldn't really afford folks chilling in here anyway |
| 03:54.25 | languish | state as in Country/governmental |
| 03:54.46 | Leeds | spackest1: what do you actually need doing, anyway? not that I've done any android development - yet |
| 03:54.58 | languish | spackest1, don't mind me :) I just had to fire a client from Utah for trying to push their values on my business |
| 03:55.03 | languish | ..yet again. |
| 03:55.28 | languish | And oddly enough, I was trying to do something lawfully, that they didn't want us to. |
| 03:56.15 | Damm | pretty much typical of Utah |
| 03:56.32 | languish | (excuse me, I was trying to hire people fairly, with no prejudice towards race, sex or sexual orientation, andf they didn't like it) |
| 03:56.35 | Damm | melvinram, you could just run 32bit java instead of 64bit. You still lack the adb driver. |
| 03:56.46 | melvinram | that wouldn't work |
| 03:56.53 | Damm | well ddms would work |
| 03:56.59 | Damm | but it still won't do much |
| 03:57.14 | spackest1 | I have a free hosting site that can accept photos via email, so I want folks to be able to easily email photos to their website from a google phone |
| 03:57.23 | melvinram | ddms working now |
| 03:57.32 | melvinram | with the 64bit SWT |
| 03:57.39 | melvinram | from http://forum.vuze.com/thread.jspa?threadID=63569&tstart=0 |
| 03:57.48 | languish | spackest1, there's an app that does that now, for googles photo site. I wonder if the code is open source. |
| 03:57.56 | languish | That would help you |
| 03:58.22 | melvinram | but it doesn't show any devices/emulators |
| 03:58.51 | languish | spackest1, but if you want people to bid on the job, put it up on one of the coding bid sites. If you want someone in an irc channel to do it for you, you have to make a solid offer and let people deicde for themselves if they consider it fair. |
| 03:59.01 | *** join/#android p_quarles (n=lee@unaffiliated/pquarles) |
| 03:59.03 | *** join/#android lando__ (n=lando@c-75-74-124-206.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 03:59.09 | languish | *decide |
| 03:59.11 | *** join/#android Ramblurr (n=rmblr@amarok/developer/Ramblurr) |
| 03:59.50 | Leeds | spackest1: so you want something which will generate and send an email with specific headers and an attachment? |
| 03:59.52 | *** join/#android BHSPitMonkey (n=stephen@unaffiliated/bhspitmonkey) |
| 04:01.19 | *** join/#android lando (n=lando@c-75-74-124-206.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 04:01.30 | spackest1 | Leeds: the user need to auth against my web service and then send their photos to a special email address |
| 04:01.51 | spackest1 | but the email or headers aren't special |
| 04:03.00 | Leeds | not special, but specific |
| 04:03.06 | Leeds | i.e. to a specific address |
| 04:03.44 | spackest1 | yes |
| 04:04.13 | melvinram | wouldn't work |
| 04:04.24 | spackest1 | I just blowfish a short string, and their user id with a key to generate an email address |
| 04:04.31 | spackest1 | just kind of long |
| 04:04.39 | melvinram | i give up... closing eclipse and just putting it aside |
| 04:05.05 | Leeds | it does appear that there is no library support for sending emails... |
| 04:05.29 | wastrel | ok what site should i got to to browse apps that aren't in the marketplace? |
| 04:06.01 | *** join/#android mib_u5yte4 (i=44ad6ed6@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-5f52443f4acca17a) |
| 04:06.57 | Leeds | wastrel: it's called 'the internet' |
| 04:07.24 | languish | wastrel code.google.com/android |
| 04:07.28 | languish | err |
| 04:07.32 | languish | ya |
| 04:08.19 | wastrel | Leeds: what applicaion are you looking for that's not on the marketplace yet? |
| 04:08.36 | languish | mmm that reminds me |
| 04:08.42 | Leeds | fbreader, this morning... |
| 04:08.55 | languish | is there a method for saving messages from the messaging aop? |
| 04:08.55 | Leeds | the point of the marketplace is to gather together applications... otherwise they can be on any website |
| 04:09.10 | melvinram | i want a good podcasting program |
| 04:09.15 | melvinram | and a wordpress app |
| 04:09.23 | melvinram | and FACEBOOK app |
| 04:09.29 | Leeds | podcast maker or downloader/player? |
| 04:09.31 | wastrel | fbreader is on the market now |
| 04:09.33 | wastrel | ? |
| 04:09.36 | melvinram | downloader |
| 04:09.39 | melvinram | player |
| 04:09.54 | melvinram | i got one but it's not nice n slick |
| 04:10.02 | Leeds | wastrel: is it? |
| 04:10.10 | languish | melvinram some exist, but they're still in development, I would call them "ok" but will wait for them to be "good" |
| 04:10.11 | wastrel | no i misunderstood you |
| 04:10.29 | *** join/#android Dralspire (n=dral@81-196.126-70.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 04:10.38 | Leeds | wastrel: I have no idea what you're talking about :-) |
| 04:10.58 | Damm | wordpress... that's what every G1 user needs |
| 04:11.06 | Damm | ffs, i'm waiting for a blogger.com option |
| 04:11.17 | languish | damn, so am I |
| 04:11.18 | wastrel | fbreader is rather disappointing at this point in time. |
| 04:11.19 | melvinram | and Google Reader |
| 04:11.42 | Damm | Google Reader works in the G1 |
| 04:11.45 | Leeds | wastrel: I intend to try to help do something about that |
| 04:11.50 | languish | I'm waiting for blogger and grandcentral apps o come from google. |
| 04:11.51 | Damm | and feedburner... sucks |
| 04:11.53 | melvinram | yea but it's slow |
| 04:11.57 | Leeds | the google reader mobile site is great |
| 04:11.58 | melvinram | since its off the web |
| 04:12.04 | Damm | google reader mobile is fine |
| 04:12.06 | *** join/#android ZXCZXC (i=ZXCZXC@c-76-109-3-55.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 04:12.11 | melvinram | its not bad... wouldn't say its great |
| 04:12.14 | Leeds | I don't 'get' the iphone version, but it seems to work |
| 04:12.28 | Damm | I wouldn't say I agree with you melvinram. |
| 04:12.39 | languish | I also *need* LOCAL versions, for when I'm in a dead zone, no signal. |
| 04:12.46 | ZXCZXC | hi guys, are here any more android phones coming up? |
| 04:12.59 | Leeds | ZXCZXC: nope, there's only going to be one |
| 04:13.01 | wastrel | oh yay |
| 04:13.08 | Leeds | languish: isn't that what google gears is for? |
| 04:13.09 | ZXCZXC | Leeds, no way! |
| 04:13.10 | wastrel | LOCAL yes |
| 04:13.18 | wastrel | offline content pls subway anyone |
| 04:13.21 | wastrel | subway ffs |
| 04:13.31 | languish | Leeds, I don't know, is it? Can you show it to me? On the G1 please. |
| 04:13.31 | Leeds | heh, we get signal in the subway here :-) |
| 04:13.34 | wastrel | also lost data today in NYC |
| 04:13.36 | cbeust_ | Gmail works great offline :) |
| 04:13.45 | languish | cbeust_ :) |
| 04:13.49 | wastrel | languish: did you lose data? no E or 3g |
| 04:13.53 | g1er | melvinram: tried the new wordpress app on the market? |
| 04:13.58 | Leeds | languish: sure, pop into my office |
| 04:14.03 | wastrel | fyi: subway |
| 04:14.07 | melvinram | did they add it today? |
| 04:14.19 | languish | wastrel, no.. my connection was fine today. My wife lost connection because of that f'ing T-Mobile hotspot app, even though wifi was off. |
| 04:14.23 | g1er | ya wptogo |
| 04:14.38 | languish | Leeds, just give me the .apk or what have you :) |
| 04:14.55 | languish | so I can have it on, *my* G1, which is the point. |
| 04:15.04 | Leeds | languish: it's built-in |
| 04:15.18 | Leeds | unfortunately, google reader seems to be sending me to the iphone version :-( |
| 04:15.23 | languish | Leeds, oh.. so there's an offline blogger app using gears built in? |
| 04:15.32 | languish | :| |
| 04:15.37 | Leeds | no, google reader - I never said anything about blogger |
| 04:15.42 | languish | sorry people, I forgot to add the sarcasm tags |
| 04:16.09 | languish | right, ok then, google reader. offine? and available on a non hacked G1? |
| 04:16.13 | languish | So my wife can use it? |
| 04:16.19 | languish | :| |
| 04:16.33 | Leeds | it *should* work, as long as you can get it to give you the full site rather than a mobile or iphone version |
| 04:17.37 | Leeds | unfortunately, it's refusing to go there for me |
| 04:17.57 | melvinram | Hey does anyone know if the apps I've downloaded already will require me to buy them after Jan? |
| 04:18.13 | melvinram | Or if I've got them already, it's mine to keep? |
| 04:18.18 | cbeust_ | melvinram: Depends on the app, but probably not |
| 04:18.24 | languish | melvinram, some will, some won't. If they state they're time-limited, they will. |
| 04:18.38 | languish | If they're beta, or just say "free" then no |
| 04:18.53 | languish | just be careful of the ones that auto-update :) |
| 04:19.24 | languish | Like, pac-man will keep working. It's free. :) |
| 04:19.35 | melvinram | sweet |
| 04:19.38 | melvinram | i love pacman |
| 04:19.43 | languish | Just don't remove it |
| 04:19.46 | RyeBrye | sucks miserably at pacman |
| 04:19.51 | languish | It may not be free to re-download forever |
| 04:19.57 | melvinram | haha me too RyeBrye |
| 04:20.09 | languish | Though I don't know if google made a deal to keep it free. |
| 04:20.21 | d0nets | hey |
| 04:20.25 | languish | sup st0ned |
| 04:20.27 | d0nets | ok so i see tomorrow is the 12th |
| 04:20.29 | d0nets | sup |
| 04:20.40 | RyeBrye | I'm surprised at how few games that don't suck people have made. I guess people are holding back games to sell later? |
| 04:20.54 | RyeBrye | There isn't even a decent brickbreaker |
| 04:21.06 | languish | RyeBrye, or it just takes time to make good games, particularly on an incomplete platform |
| 04:21.07 | d0nets | so i guess its time to get on with rooting my phone before i can slapped with rc30 |
| 04:21.07 | melvinram | my screen 1 has games & entertainment stuff, screen 2 is daily usage stuff (like email) and screen 3 is utilities ... like alarm, file manager, settings, etc |
| 04:21.10 | d0nets | where do i read? |
| 04:21.31 | languish | d0nets download-dls.com/wiki |
| 04:21.36 | languish | err |
| 04:21.41 | languish | android-dls.com/wiki |
| 04:21.43 | languish | my bad :) |
| 04:21.43 | d0nets | oh yes, where you told me before |
| 04:21.45 | d0nets | ;) |
| 04:21.48 | languish | yes, :P |
| 04:21.54 | d0nets | darkrift's forums |
| 04:21.57 | languish | yes |
| 04:22.11 | languish | the guy that came up with the hacked RC30 editied part of it too |
| 04:22.16 | d0nets | i got busy with school |
| 04:22.27 | d0nets | right thats what someone just said in efnet #android |
| 04:22.30 | d0nets | hence why i came here |
| 04:22.33 | languish | heh |
| 04:23.31 | mattgyver83 | if you reset your phone to defaults will you go back to rc29, or will you stay at 30? |
| 04:23.36 | wastrel | efnet is bad |
| 04:23.51 | languish | mattgyver83, if you follow the directions correctly, you'll stay at RC30 |
| 04:24.02 | MichaelJE2 | i'm sad, I didn't know about rooting until after I upgraded to RC30 |
| 04:24.19 | wastrel | i upgraded to rc30 |
| 04:25.03 | melvinram | MichaelJE2: get over it |
| 04:25.14 | MichaelJE2 | ... |
| 04:25.18 | MichaelJE2 | yes, I know |
| 04:25.32 | MichaelJE2 | I'll just wait for a new root techneque |
| 04:25.44 | melvinram | y? |
| 04:25.49 | d0nets | wastrel efnet aint so bad |
| 04:26.00 | d0nets | once you get past the trolls and spam |
| 04:26.04 | d0nets | and chan takeovers |
| 04:26.08 | d0nets | and E balls |
| 04:26.08 | MichaelJE2 | ... |
| 04:27.52 | languish | I've been on efnet since it was just a few servers in finland |
| 04:27.57 | languish | before it was efnet :/ |
| 04:28.07 | languish | funet ftw |
| 04:28.42 | wastrel | f u too |
| 04:30.05 | wastrel | Leeds: did you get it to compile? |
| 04:30.18 | Leeds | wastrel: haven't tried yet |
| 04:31.43 | Leeds | is there any reasonably-complete changelog for the OTA updates? |
| 04:32.22 | Damm | nope |
| 04:32.27 | Damm | not even close to complete |
| 04:33.08 | Leeds | always good to hear that for an open source project |
| 04:34.27 | romainguy__ | it has nothing to do with being open source :) |
| 04:34.39 | jbq | ... what romainguy__ said. |
| 04:34.47 | Leeds | huh? |
| 04:34.58 | cbeust_ | Bad documentation is tightly connected to open source projects, though |
| 04:35.10 | cbeust_ | (obviously, Android is an exception :D)) |
| 04:35.17 | romainguy__ | cbeust_: -bad+no |
| 04:35.25 | cbeust_ | I was trying to be nice. |
| 04:35.29 | romainguy__ | I'm not defending the lack of changelogs |
| 04:35.32 | wastrel | hi |
| 04:35.46 | romainguy__ | but using the argument of "it's supposed to be open" for *everything* is a bit dishonest imo :) |
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| 04:40.20 | Leeds | obviously there is a disconnect between android-the-open-source-platform and android-the-thing-running-on-my-G1... not a criticism, just an observation |
| 04:40.21 | Damm | i look at android as a WIP. |
| 04:40.30 | Damm | a year from now it will be 500000x better |
| 04:40.34 | Damm | and we won't remember how bad it was |
| 04:40.40 | romainguy__ | Leeds: which is what's we've been saying for a while :) |
| 04:40.51 | Damm | however if you can fix my phone so it stops crashing in the meantime whenever my servers go down... that would be great. |
| 04:40.58 | Damm | it seems Messaging can't handle Nagios real well |
| 04:41.13 | wastrel | k a bunch of warnings but fbreader builds |
| 04:41.17 | Damm | me and my coworker have threads that are 300+ with our girlfriends, but hit 10 nagios texts and it starts to get buck wild |
| 04:41.25 | romainguy__ | Damm: high quality patches are always welcome :) |
| 04:41.37 | Damm | romainguy__, eh i'm not a java guy, but I may have to. |
| 04:42.49 | Damm | it's prolly the mime parser |
| 04:43.08 | Damm | trying to think the texts are more then they are... lol |
| 04:46.24 | MichaelJE2 | what does holding the ball-scrolly-wheel do when turning on the phone? it makes the alert light turn blue for me |
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| 04:50.37 | g1er | does it still boot to the homescreen? |
| 04:50.51 | RyeBrye | <PROTECTED> |
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| 04:52.27 | Damm | menu key = safe mode |
| 04:52.30 | Damm | i know that much |
| 04:53.47 | RyeBrye | the trackball + power key just puts it in blue light mode |
| 04:55.40 | spikebike | heh |
| 04:55.47 | spikebike | blue light mode eh? |
| 04:55.47 | Damm | blue light special? |
| 04:55.48 | Damm | lol |
| 04:56.00 | RyeBrye | yeah.. try it out - no clue what it is doing |
| 04:56.22 | mattgyver83 | I tried it on mine, cant figure out how to get it to boot after that. |
| 04:56.37 | RyeBrye | Yeah, I think you have to pull the battery |
| 04:56.49 | mattgyver83 | Wonder what thats about |
| 04:56.55 | mattgyver83 | cant find anything on google about it |
| 04:58.06 | Damm | you expect to find something about google software on google? |
| 04:58.07 | Damm | how dare you |
| 04:59.22 | spikebike | actually it is kinda ironic, the android devel stuff is behind a passowrd |
| 04:59.28 | spikebike | and the included search engine sucks rocks |
| 05:00.22 | Leeds | password? |
| 05:03.30 | *** join/#android osmosis (n=steven@cpe-76-94-193-157.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 05:07.56 | Damm | no clue |
| 05:08.22 | spikebike | requires a google login (free for the asking) |
| 05:08.40 | mattgyver83 | Taking out the battery resets it, not sure what that did though. Anyone else notice the small black sticker that says void on the phone when you open it though? |
| 05:09.23 | spikebike | pretty common |
| 05:09.31 | spikebike | as well as small white ones that turn a color when wet |
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| 05:12.02 | *** join/#android sal323 (i=fuentesj@cpe-76-90-194-82.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 05:12.52 | Damm | yup |
| 05:14.43 | Damm | this one prolly turns white |
| 05:14.51 | Damm | but typically it's white and turns pink and under the battery |
| 05:14.54 | Damm | the battery also has one |
| 05:14.59 | sal323 | are there any docs describing how to transfer files to an android device? |
| 05:15.28 | Damm | easy way? mount it via usb |
| 05:15.33 | Damm | if you wanna get kinky, adb push |
| 05:16.22 | sal323 | don't i need drivers for the usb? |
| 05:16.36 | Damm | nah, it's USB Storage. |
| 05:16.45 | Damm | if you want to use adb, yes you need the driver. |
| 05:16.55 | Damm | unless you run on a mac/linux |
| 05:16.59 | sal323 | i'm on windows and it doesn't recognize the device |
| 05:17.00 | Damm | then your fine |
| 05:17.06 | Damm | what version of windows? |
| 05:17.10 | sal323 | xp prof |
| 05:17.14 | sal323 | using usb |
| 05:17.18 | Damm | then it's wanting the ADB Driver |
| 05:17.22 | g1er | have to enable usb |
| 05:17.34 | sal323 | crap. i think i need to enable usb |
| 05:17.36 | g1er | on the phone. |
| 05:17.41 | sal323 | ok hold up |
| 05:18.01 | Damm | g1er, lol i forgot about that. |
| 05:18.05 | Damm | been awhile since I ran RC19 |
| 05:18.55 | *** join/#android Perogies (n=kris@to2-35.srmd01.resnet.ubc.ca) |
| 05:18.56 | g1er | me too now :) still lookingfor away to keep it enabled on 30 :/ |
| 05:18.58 | spikebike | rc19 just offers a mount as soon as you connect, there's no notification or query |
| 05:19.35 | g1er | but in settings USB storage must be enabled, or it asksfor drivers |
| 05:20.01 | Damm | right for adb |
| 05:20.21 | g1er | ya, :/ had the same issue my first time... |
| 05:20.33 | Damm | didn't |
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| 05:21.16 | Damm | i'm only guessing, I haven't touched Windows in 4+years |
| 05:21.54 | sal323 | ok its not working still |
| 05:22.11 | aggtrfrad | anyone had issues with busybox? im running as root, trying to create a nod in /dev with busy box, but i get a permission denied error |
| 05:22.24 | sal323 | system tray popup shows android, but it still requesting driver |
| 05:22.26 | g1er | did you check in in settings |
| 05:22.26 | aggtrfrad | ls |
| 05:22.45 | languish | aggtrfrad, you're not the onlu one |
| 05:23.04 | KNY | sal323, sorry, I'm a bit late, but you installed the windows drivers, right? |
| 05:23.06 | sal323 | g1er: applications->dev, right? |
| 05:23.23 | sal323 | so there are windows drivers? |
| 05:23.35 | g1er | I think it under SDcard & system memory |
| 05:23.36 | spikebike | which busybox? |
| 05:23.48 | g1er | its* |
| 05:24.10 | KNY | sal323, yeah, there's a zip on the android site |
| 05:24.19 | g1er | ah |
| 05:24.35 | KNY | sal323, http://dl.google.com/android/android_usb_windows.zip |
| 05:24.44 | aggtrfrad | hm i just ran an app with busybox, and then ran ps from my device, seems like busybox runs as "app_33", not root |
| 05:25.39 | *** join/#android melvinram (i=62d00c8e@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d1b830f2f24b5f29) |
| 05:25.40 | g1er | odd tho, I didn't need the drivers once usb was enabled. until tinkering with the sdk. |
| 05:25.50 | melvinram | Anyone from Google here? |
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| 05:26.00 | stanter | hello folks |
| 05:26.06 | KNY | g1er, I'm not on windows, just going from the site: http://code.google.com/android/intro/develop-and-debug.html#developingondevicehardware |
| 05:26.06 | summatusmentis | there are a few google people around |
| 05:26.26 | g1er | i am :( |
| 05:26.30 | sal323 | KNY: ty. will try it now |
| 05:26.40 | *** join/#android Olipro (n=Olipro@uncyclopedia/Olipro) |
| 05:26.44 | melvinram | On the installation page (http://code.google.com/android/intro/installing.html), you guys need to change the URL to http://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/site.xml because your existing link doesn't work |
| 05:26.54 | g1er | lol, both phones have been pnp for me on xp-home |
| 05:27.18 | melvinram | This is under the Installing the Eclipse Plugin (ADT) section |
| 05:27.27 | g1er | er, minus my first issue, |
| 05:28.39 | stanter | this is an android internals question: when i modify the java in frameworks/base/services how can i get these changes into the emulator withou rebuilding the entire source |
| 05:29.24 | stanter | issuing an 'mm' at this level generates a new services.jar file. is it sufficient to just mkyaffs2 again on the system directory? |
| 05:30.22 | languish | Anyone know who dev'd NutroLog? |
| 05:31.13 | *** part/#android Perogies (n=kris@to2-35.srmd01.resnet.ubc.ca) |
| 05:31.27 | melvinram | languish: why not just go to the app and click "email the developers" and see where the email points to |
| 05:32.01 | sal323 | ok the driver and it says device is ready but windows explorer still is not recognizing the drive/device. will reboot xp to fix. :) be back |
| 05:32.37 | sal323 | err installed the driver |
| 05:33.52 | languish | melvinram, I just dropped them a msg on their blog |
| 05:34.04 | languish | but I was wondering if they were lurking :) so many do |
| 05:34.15 | ieatlint | so has anyone noticed that http://translate.google.com is broken/unusable in android's browser? |
| 05:34.37 | languish | ieatlint, many google properties are. |
| 05:34.41 | stanter | has anyone messed with internals in here? |
| 05:35.18 | ieatlint | that somehow seems impressive, especially for what should be a simple site |
| 05:35.43 | melvinram | languish: its someone with the email of taraskovtun@gmail.com |
| 05:36.29 | languish | melvinram :) thanks. I'll give that a shot if they don't respond on the blog |
| 05:37.14 | languish | My other question of the night is.. Is there a way to back-up messages in the messaging app? |
| 05:37.15 | melvinram | languish: seems like its this fella http://www.blogger.com/profile/13398992782366962366 |
| 05:37.50 | languish | melvinram, yep :) I left him a question here http://nutrolog.blogspot.com/ |
| 05:37.52 | melvinram | i should be a detective |
| 05:37.59 | melvinram | :D |
| 05:37.59 | *** part/#android spackest1 (n=judi@c-76-23-34-252.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 05:39.00 | g1er | Figured out 'blue light' mode yet? ^^ |
| 05:39.02 | *** join/#android sal323 (i=fuentesj@cpe-76-90-194-82.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 05:39.16 | sal323 | i'm back |
| 05:39.32 | languish | Attention ALL devs. Please, PLEASE keep in mind that sometimes a device needs to be master reset. If your app stores data, include a way to back up that data, for reinstallation later. |
| 05:39.36 | languish | :| |
| 05:40.00 | languish | even the notepad apps! |
| 05:40.03 | languish | :) |
| 05:40.15 | KNY | languish, that was the first thing I wrote in my app |
| 05:40.23 | languish | though at least with those, copy/paste to an email can be done |
| 05:40.27 | languish | KNY :) |
| 05:40.30 | languish | which app? |
| 05:40.33 | languish | forgetful |
| 05:40.34 | KNY | well, second, because testing was a huge PITA without it |
| 05:40.37 | KNY | Mileage |
| 05:40.39 | languish | heh |
| 05:40.40 | languish | ahh |
| 05:40.41 | languish | nod |
| 05:41.03 | languish | I must be getting tired, I'm becomming a carrige return warrior |
| 05:41.15 | KNY | you can import/export in three flavors, no less :) |
| 05:41.20 | languish | heh |
| 05:41.23 | languish | suhweet |
| 05:41.37 | michaelnovakjr__ | i just got updated from rc19 right to rc30 |
| 05:41.56 | languish | michaelnovakjr, did you install/want to install ? |
| 05:42.04 | michaelnovakjr__ | yep |
| 05:42.09 | languish | :) |
| 05:42.19 | spikebike | modded or tmo? |
| 05:42.24 | michaelnovakjr__ | actually sergey showed up at my doorstep with a knife and a zip file |
| 05:42.26 | KNY | I was glad to get RC30 to get rid of that stupid console bug :) |
| 05:42.29 | languish | "got updated" must be OTA |
| 05:42.29 | michaelnovakjr__ | what was i supposed to do? |
| 05:42.54 | languish | michaelnovakjr, press his "later" button, then go in to his cache, and delete him |
| 05:43.02 | KNY | michaelnovakjr_, pull out a gun and a .tar.gz? |
| 05:43.02 | michaelnovakjr__ | haha |
| 05:43.03 | languish | :| |
| 05:43.09 | michaelnovakjr__ | :) |
| 05:45.10 | afsd3 | can you use setContentView(R.id.mytextViewID);? If not how to you display on a diffrent element? |
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| 05:45.52 | *** join/#android danniill_ (n=danniill@61.107.47.4) |
| 05:46.45 | KNY | afsd3, eh? |
| 05:48.02 | afsd3 | I'm trying to display two texts outputs to the screen and I created a new TextView in main.xml but I don't know how to tell TextView to output to that element |
| 05:48.37 | *** join/#android danniill (n=danniill@61.107.47.4) |
| 05:48.39 | KNY | you just define them both in your layout (probably main.xml) |
| 05:48.59 | KNY | simplified, but: <LinearLayout><TextView/><TextView/></LinearLayout> |
| 05:49.04 | KNY | look through some of the API demos |
| 05:49.04 | afsd3 | yeah I got that done |
| 05:49.33 | afsd3 | but I don't know how to tell my code to display to that certain element |
| 05:49.58 | KNY | I'm still not understanding what you mean by "display to that element" |
| 05:50.48 | afsd3 | okay in my main.xml, I have a <TextView android:id="@+id/test" bleh bleh bleh /> in my code how do I tell it to output to that element? |
| 05:51.09 | afsd3 | setContentView(R.id.test); ? |
| 05:51.19 | KNY | you're still phrasing it the same way... are you trying to write text into that TextView? |
| 05:51.25 | afsd3 | yeah |
| 05:51.33 | KNY | findViewById() |
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| 05:53.16 | afsd3 | ah okay thanks KNY |
| 05:53.22 | orci | why doesn't page layout change automatically when i put rotate the tmobg1 phone? I believe it can detect such action. |
| 05:54.50 | KNY | orci, I used "sensor" but that's based on accelerometer |
| 05:55.00 | KNY | is that what you're trying to do? |
| 05:56.16 | orci | KNY, sensor is an app? |
| 05:56.23 | KNY | android:screenOrientation="sensor" |
| 05:56.39 | KNY | in my AndroidManifest.xml |
| 05:57.05 | orci | I was wondering if tmobg1 could change the layout from landscape to other layout automatically when the user rotates the phone |
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| 05:57.19 | *** mode/#android [+o cbeust] by ChanServ |
| 05:57.38 | sal323 | i'm trying to install mod rc30 but i'm not sure how i'm suppose to get root shell |
| 05:57.45 | sal323 | adb shell is not root |
| 05:57.49 | KNY | orci, that's what that line does |
| 05:58.05 | KNY | sal323, on that wiki there's a link on how to get it |
| 05:58.11 | DarkriftX | sal323, http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Rooting_Android |
| 05:58.29 | afsd3 | KNY, would this not be correct? View test = findViewById(R.id.Vtime); |
| 05:58.29 | afsd3 | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:58.37 | afsd3 | ops sorry about that line spam |
| 05:58.45 | orci | KNY, how can I edit any of system files? I believe AndroidManifest.xml is a system file? |
| 05:58.48 | KNY | afsd3, no, that would not be right. |
| 05:59.12 | KNY | orci, are you trying to do this for every application? |
| 05:59.22 | orci | KNY, yes? |
| 05:59.22 | KNY | or just for one that you are writing? |
| 05:59.32 | orci | KNY, i am a suer actually |
| 05:59.34 | orci | user |
| 05:59.42 | KNY | orci, you can't. It's up to the application's author to add that functionality |
| 05:59.44 | afsd3 | KNY, argh, could you easily explain what I should do? |
| 06:00.16 | KNY | afsd3, TextView tv = (TextView) findViewById(R.id.some_text_view); tv.setText(R.string.mytext); |
| 06:00.21 | melvinram | woo hoo got the SDK to work |
| 06:00.31 | KNY | afsd3, please read the documentation; it's all there :) |
| 06:00.31 | orci | KNY, ah ok but why don't they add this func ? I never saw this feature |
| 06:00.39 | orci | KNY, which is your app? |
| 06:00.43 | KNY | Mileage |
| 06:00.54 | *** part/#android cbeust (n=cbeust@72.14.224.1) |
| 06:00.54 | orci | hey I have that :) |
| 06:00.56 | afsd3 | KNY, thanks so much I'm learning =) Would I look under TextView? or? |
| 06:00.59 | afsd3 | under the docs |
| 06:01.07 | KNY | afsd3, I believe it's under Activity |
| 06:01.11 | KNY | orci, glad to hear it :) |
| 06:01.13 | afsd3 | ah okay thanks |
| 06:01.21 | orci | KNY, but it does not rotate automatically either though |
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| 06:01.33 | orci | kny oh wait it does |
| 06:01.34 | KNY | if you turn your phone sideways it will |
| 06:01.35 | KNY | :) |
| 06:02.19 | KNY | afsd3, http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/app/Activity.html#findViewById(int) |
| 06:02.22 | melvinram | i wonder why Google didn't build the automatic flip feature into the system |
| 06:02.29 | orci | KNY, it would be nice to be able to remove antries as well |
| 06:02.34 | afsd3 | KNY, thanks so much ill read that now |
| 06:02.35 | KNY | afsd3, also, look through the API demos: there are a lot of examples |
| 06:02.47 | KNY | orci, select it from the history, hit Menu, hit delete |
| 06:02.53 | afsd3 | KNY, there is just the notepad and the space game right? |
| 06:03.05 | spikebike | melvinram: seemed like it was a rush, just didn't make the first cut |
| 06:03.13 | KNY | melvinram, well, I assume not everyone wants their application to automatically rotate |
| 06:03.34 | KNY | though yes, it would be nice to be on by default |
| 06:03.58 | melvinram | why not... if you're looking at it sideways, no advantage showing a screen that is vertical |
| 06:04.13 | melvinram | spikebike: ya it was probably due to rush |
| 06:04.18 | orci | KNY, I had reinstalled your app to remove an entry I guess I am losing my geeky status |
| 06:04.22 | orci | :) |
| 06:04.22 | KNY | not every application has a concept of "vertical". Many games, for example. |
| 06:04.24 | spikebike | the hardware's capable |
| 06:04.26 | KNY | orci, haha. |
| 06:04.55 | KNY | orci, should have sent me an email first |
| 06:05.04 | melvinram | well, sure. Maybe have the automatic flip built into their apps... like gmail |
| 06:05.22 | KNY | or even the home screen |
| 06:05.50 | KNY | don't get me wrong; I think they should have included it in a lot more apps, but definitely not make it a system-wide requirement |
| 06:06.20 | melvinram | well, maybe a system-wide feature that can easily be turned off |
| 06:06.33 | melvinram | or easily turned on |
| 06:06.55 | melvinram | (not by the user... but by the developer) |
| 06:07.14 | cbeust | Automatic flip was not included because it doesn't work well in practice |
| 06:07.28 | spikebike | yeah it works so poorly for the iphone ;-) |
| 06:07.29 | melvinram | cbeust: programming wise or usage wise? |
| 06:07.35 | cbeust | Usage wise |
| 06:07.43 | cbeust | It's not reliable on horizontal surfaces |
| 06:07.55 | cbeust | nor next to magnetic fields (such as 30' monitors :) ) |
| 06:07.59 | *** join/#android romainguy (n=gfx@adsl-75-55-215-117.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 06:08.08 | cbeust | and sometimes, it just rotates when you don't want it to |
| 06:08.37 | KNY | melvinram, it already can be very easily turned on by the developer |
| 06:08.56 | melvinram | KNY: automatic flip or user selected flip? |
| 06:09.12 | KNY | accelerometer-based |
| 06:09.28 | melvinram | KNY: so if i turn it sideways? |
| 06:09.31 | KNY | yes |
| 06:09.37 | melvinram | oh okay |
| 06:09.46 | melvinram | wonder why more dev are not doing it |
| 06:09.49 | KNY | it's a one-line change to your app to add the functionality |
| 06:10.07 | KNY | well, then you have to do twice as much UI testing to make sure it's usable :) |
| 06:10.20 | cbeust | KNY: it is, and it's one line you quickly remove after a few users start playing with it |
| 06:10.54 | KNY | cbeust, depends on the application, I suppose |
| 06:10.59 | melvinram | cbeust: really? how come iphone makes it work easily? |
| 06:11.08 | melvinram | *remove easily |
| 06:11.22 | orci | I do java programming but do not know gui programming, is android gui easier than regular java gui? or the same thing? |
| 06:11.22 | KNY | melvinram, my iPod touch doesn't rotate all apps |
| 06:11.27 | cbeust | melvinram: have you tried the auto flip on the iPhone on a flat surface? |
| 06:11.33 | KNY | orci, about the same, just different |
| 06:12.00 | orci | any java gui pointers for a starter? |
| 06:12.00 | melvinram | why would you do it on a flat surface? |
| 06:12.29 | cbeust | orci: general Java GUI or Android GUI? |
| 06:12.30 | orci | cbeust, it does not work |
| 06:12.40 | RyeBrye | wouldn't the compass help make it work on a flat surface with the G1? |
| 06:12.48 | orci | cbeust, whichever would make more sense to start with |
| 06:13.12 | KNY | RyeBrye, what does the compass have to do with it? |
| 06:13.17 | KNY | I don't want my GUI to face North |
| 06:13.19 | cbeust | orci: if you want to do android development, our docs are probably a good starting point and I wouldn't bother with AWT/Swing |
| 06:13.20 | RyeBrye | :) |
| 06:13.47 | DarkriftX | the direction woldnt matter, just the degree of the turn |
| 06:13.49 | RyeBrye | You can assume the phone vertical alignment is correct when it is held and then hold that direction as "up" when you put it on a flat surface |
| 06:14.06 | DarkriftX | eg, its pointing north, then its pointing west, that would say it went from portrait to landscape |
| 06:14.07 | RyeBrye | and then when you rotate 90 degrees - it rotates the screen... not too hard |
| 06:14.13 | orci | http://code.google.com/android/devel/implementing-ui.html ? |
| 06:14.17 | orci | cbeust, |
| 06:14.35 | KNY | RyeBrye, but the issue is that if the surface isn't *quite* flat then the average becomes more sideways than vertical |
| 06:14.38 | KNY | and the app flips |
| 06:15.07 | melvinram | hmm |
| 06:15.37 | melvinram | for obvious situations though, it should autoflip |
| 06:16.15 | KNY | well, as the pidgin team would say: "patches welcome", I suppose |
| 06:16.57 | melvinram | I'm just getting started so i can't do anything yet :D |
| 06:18.08 | melvinram | Has anyone bought this yet? http://www.pragprog.com/titles/eband/hello-android If so, watcha think of it? |
| 06:18.14 | Leeds | hmm.. tricorder??? |
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| 06:20.47 | mirov | leeds: You around ? We used to chat at #handhelds... |
| 06:21.13 | Leeds | hey mirov :-) |
| 06:21.52 | mirov | pm me, I can't remember how to do it... |
| 06:21.56 | Leeds | finally someone shipped a real Linuxphone, eh? :-) |
| 06:24.06 | spikebike | heh |
| 06:24.07 | spikebike | sort of |
| 06:24.17 | spikebike | not like they haven't been shipping by the million |
| 06:24.28 | spikebike | just not to the old USA... sadly |
| 06:24.31 | Leeds | not open ones |
| 06:24.36 | spikebike | g1 is not open |
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| 06:24.43 | spikebike | trav! |
| 06:24.47 | trav530 | hola |
| 06:24.57 | Leeds | it's a hell of a lot more open than any other mass-market Linuxphone |
| 06:24.59 | *** join/#android Olipro (n=Olipro@uncyclopedia/Olipro) |
| 06:25.04 | spikebike | like the freerunner? |
| 06:25.14 | cbeust | spikebike: he said *functional* |
| 06:25.18 | spikebike | a1200 then |
| 06:25.32 | Leeds | a1200 is a lot more locked down than the G1 |
| 06:25.47 | Leeds | I am in those parts of the world you are referring to... |
| 06:26.02 | spikebike | kinda ironic how motorola complains about not selling phones |
| 06:26.11 | spikebike | and how g1 is getting all this press |
| 06:26.30 | spikebike | they could have shipping a decent phone at basically no cost a good while ago |
| 06:27.14 | *** join/#android Slackwise (n=Lance@c-71-194-229-18.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 06:27.35 | spikebike | so now they are hiring 300 more engineers and investing in android |
| 06:27.46 | spikebike | if only they had shipped what they already had |
| 06:28.03 | KNY | how does one go about putting long-press context menus on a ListActivity? |
| 06:28.15 | KNY | I'm looking through the Contacts app source and can't see how they do it |
| 06:28.34 | stanter | anyone compile android from source in here and want to start a lively discussion? :) |
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| 06:29.00 | KNY | implements View.OnCreateContextMenuListener |
| 06:29.02 | KNY | bingo |
| 06:29.33 | Zigner | is mv supported without busybox? |
| 06:30.19 | spikebike | ya |
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| 06:32.36 | orci | on my phone many apps crash frequently, may there be something wrong with my setup? or is it because android is not very stable yet? |
| 06:32.56 | cbeust | orci: apps that you installed? |
| 06:33.24 | Fnord^ | stanter, about what specifically? |
| 06:33.25 | orci | cbeust, not sure, but I get that message com.... app has crashed message |
| 06:33.38 | orci | may be couple of times a day |
| 06:33.40 | KNY | I can get some apps to crash if it's loading something big and you start hitting buttons like home, back, and end really fast |
| 06:33.45 | cbeust | The G1 should be stable without any installed app |
| 06:34.00 | KNY | orci, if it's a com.android.* message, then be worried |
| 06:34.14 | stanter | Fnord: the build system, edit recompile cycles, minimal recompile, testing internals changes |
| 06:34.33 | orci | cbeust, what happens is that I lose all the icons on the desktop for a while, then they come back |
| 06:34.57 | orci | KNY, I'll be checking the message more carefully next time |
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| 06:35.26 | Zigner | schedule of events tomorrow when I get home with new g1's: 1. disconnect dsl so no updates over wifi ( we dont have service at house ) 2. power on phones, start telnetd 3. get root using adb port forward ( i've got driver dl'ed ) 4. mv otacerts.zip 5. reconnect dsl 6. update to mod'ed rc30 |
| 06:35.28 | orci | it is mostly something like com....home... I believe |
| 06:36.06 | Fnord^ | I've not had the time to really get into that, other than bits and pieces that I've messed with out of need. The build system annoys me though |
| 06:36.24 | Zigner | is there any benefit of manually mod'ing rc30 VS using premodded? |
| 06:37.05 | Fnord^ | Zigner, you know what's been done to your phone |
| 06:37.12 | stanter | Fnord^: some of the dependencies are unclear to me. it is hard to figure out which project need to be remade when i modify a particular file |
| 06:37.36 | KNY | I'm kind of ashamed I don't know this off the top of my head, but what's the internal storage on the G1? |
| 06:37.41 | Zigner | well, this is all pending that its still < rc30 |
| 06:37.43 | umdk1d3 | microsd |
| 06:37.45 | Fnord^ | I've not even poked at the java code yet ... isn't that all signed on g1? |
| 06:38.05 | KNY | umdk1d3, I meant the capacity. And not the SD |
| 06:38.08 | Fnord^ | If not maybe I should rebuild pesteractivity >.> |
| 06:38.09 | KNY | the internal flash |
| 06:38.23 | trav530 | does anyone have any details on why modifying the mini-RC30 (4MBish) patch is said to fail (and brick phones)? |
| 06:38.25 | stanter | it might be. not using the g1. i am using custom hardware |
| 06:38.29 | Zigner | Fnord^: is that what you were asking? |
| 06:38.44 | g1er | KNY: 120 something mb |
| 06:38.49 | Fnord^ | Zigner, is what? |
| 06:39.03 | KNY | g1er, thanks. I'll go turn in my geek card now. |
| 06:39.29 | Zigner | Fnord:" you know whats been dont to your phone " --> I hope nothing, they will be new from tmobile. |
| 06:39.39 | umdk1d3 | mmm http://www.htc.com/www/product/g1/specification.html 256 via that sheet |
| 06:39.41 | Fnord^ | trav530, mini rc30 uses bin patching with sha1 checksumming. if anything is even slightly off there will be an error. if there's an error midway through update, it tends to kill stuf |
| 06:39.50 | g1er | np |
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| 06:40.10 | trav530 | ah, that's sort of what i thought. so, in theory it's possible, but just dangerous..? |
| 06:40.35 | mib_my9efi | so folks, for a new G1 owner, what are we looking at in terms of potential for this phone in the upcoming months |
| 06:40.40 | Fnord^ | better to use the full update i think, but in theory possible |
| 06:40.48 | Fnord^ | btw |
| 06:40.49 | Zigner | trav530: not realistic to make checksum the same after modding binary. |
| 06:41.03 | trav530 | fnord: makes sense. the main reason i was looking into it is because it's the mini-update that my phone keeps wanting to install |
| 06:41.05 | Fnord^ | has anyone heard of RC30 being seen on store phones yet? |
| 06:41.35 | mib_my9efi | Fnord, i just received my G1 last thurs and I am on RC19 |
| 06:41.36 | trav530 | zigner: right, i wouldn't need to mod any bins, just add one at the end |
| 06:42.11 | Fnord^ | Yeah make sure your otacerts.zip isn't renamed. that did cause someone problems |
| 06:42.13 | g1er | KNY: I take that back :/ http://www.handcellphone.com/mobile/google-g1-ringtone-accessories-software-review-specifications-and-buy |
| 06:42.14 | Zigner | mine were shipped monday from dallas tmobile warehouse.. crossing fingers that the production pipeline is long and no updating is happening at the last second. |
| 06:42.39 | KNY | 256MB, not bad |
| 06:42.45 | KNY | still wish you could install to SD |
| 06:42.53 | trav530 | fnord: yup, i've heard. thx. |
| 06:43.31 | trav530 | has anybody ever seen a data sheet for the MSM7201A? |
| 06:43.32 | spikebike | kny with tweaks you can |
| 06:43.35 | trav530 | and i don't mean a 2-pager |
| 06:43.38 | mib_my9efi | g1er, that page says the camera has zoom even though it doesn't |
| 06:43.39 | KNY | spikebike, oh? |
| 06:43.43 | Fnord^ | more like : /dev/block/mtdblock3 67.5M 64.3M 3.2M 95% /system |
| 06:43.43 | Fnord^ | /dev/block/mtdblock5 74.8M 65.6M 9.2M 88% /data |
| 06:43.43 | Fnord^ | /dev/block/mtdblock4 67.5M 1.3M 66.2M 2% /cache |
| 06:43.48 | KNY | mib_my9efi, there's crop :) |
| 06:44.04 | trav530 | spikebike: i've heard that even those who have tweaked it have ended up with nasty probs |
| 06:44.11 | mib_my9efi | that page is way off r1er |
| 06:44.13 | oyeoj | in theory, one could eventually compile android from scratch and flash a G1, right? |
| 06:44.18 | mib_my9efi | it also says the phone has a video recorder |
| 06:45.07 | spikebike | oyeoj not everything is opensourced |
| 06:45.44 | spikebike | youtube, IM, ota updates, and related aren't I believe |
| 06:45.55 | oyeoj | radio glue? |
| 06:46.04 | KNY | Market |
| 06:46.07 | Fnord^ | Don't forget 'myfavs' |
| 06:46.08 | KNY | and Amazon MP3 |
| 06:46.13 | oyeoj | gmail? |
| 06:46.14 | spikebike | yeah, and those |
| 06:46.16 | languish | This whole idea of all your data on the G1 saving to the google cloud, is currently failing. |
| 06:46.16 | oyeoj | calendar? |
| 06:46.17 | Fnord^ | which breaks everything if you try to remove =[ |
| 06:46.19 | KNY | oyeoj, that too |
| 06:46.23 | trav530 | actually, i'm not totally convinced that it doesn't have 256MB. the partitions *start* at 0x024c0000, rather than 0x0 |
| 06:46.24 | languish | it's great with the calendar and gmail |
| 06:46.28 | languish | and contacts |
| 06:46.32 | languish | (though issues there too) |
| 06:46.44 | languish | but.. the individual apps, and messages in the messaging app... |
| 06:46.53 | languish | all that data is lost with a reset |
| 06:46.55 | g1er | :/ sry...Please let us know if the information above is wrong. We're humans too, sometimes we make mistakes...lol |
| 06:46.58 | oyeoj | ok but those are all individual binaries? or are they known to rely on kernel magic? |
| 06:47.04 | KNY | languish, maybe it's me, but I'm glad that's not saved "in the cloud" |
| 06:47.16 | Fnord^ | tar is your friend |
| 06:47.22 | languish | KNY, I am too, but we also don't have any method to back up said data. |
| 06:47.28 | oyeoj | ie could one copy them to a fresh compiled android |
| 06:47.38 | KNY | languish, if you had root you could, I guess :-/ |
| 06:47.48 | languish | KNY, I do, but my wife's G1 doesn't. |
| 06:48.03 | languish | and extracting it from her db is a pain in the ass |
| 06:48.14 | languish | it's like working with windows |
| 06:48.17 | KNY | haha |
| 06:49.01 | KNY | alright folks, it's about 2 hours past when I should have slept, so I'm leaving |
| 06:49.11 | Fnord^ | there's no good ncurses sqlite viewer |
| 06:49.13 | languish | jbq, is there a way to save the messages in the messaging app? |
| 06:49.36 | languish | (or anyone else who man know) |
| 06:49.43 | Fnord^ | languish, tar |
| 06:49.45 | Fnord^ | :P |
| 06:49.56 | languish | On a non modded RC30 |
| 06:49.58 | languish | :| |
| 06:50.02 | oyeoj | :( |
| 06:50.08 | jbq | languish: I have no idea, but I'd assume that it's not actually possible by default :( |
| 06:50.16 | trav530 | i'm guessing they're stuffed in a DB somewhere |
| 06:50.17 | Fnord^ | Nope don't think....wait |
| 06:50.25 | languish | jbq, right, so all that data is going to be lost... |
| 06:50.38 | trav530 | like tears in rain |
| 06:50.42 | Fnord^ | there's permissions for apps, yeah? I've seen 'access chats' or such |
| 06:50.59 | Fnord^ | so in theory someone could write a backup app...right? |
| 06:51.06 | languish | one would hope |
| 06:51.12 | languish | it's beyond me |
| 06:51.49 | languish | I already have a project I'm cutting my teeth on |
| 06:51.54 | *** join/#android `Gumby (i=9a144a3d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b9f73f11aaee5c80) |
| 06:52.09 | languish | but I'm concerned the next android update will break it |
| 06:52.12 | languish | *sigh* |
| 06:52.19 | Fnord^ | what sortof project? |
| 06:52.27 | sal323 | "failed on '/system/etc/security/otacerts.zip' - Read-only file system" |
| 06:52.31 | sal323 | what's up with that? |
| 06:52.34 | languish | mmm.. not ready to discuss it yet |
| 06:52.51 | Fnord^ | mount -oremount,rw /dev/block/mtdblock3 /system |
| 06:52.58 | sal323 | duh |
| 06:53.02 | sal323 | nevermind |
| 06:53.21 | `Gumby | hi all. is there a good msn client for android. I attempted to try IM+ free trial but it says the trial has expired before I even created an account |
| 06:53.36 | Fnord^ | meebo? |
| 06:54.12 | languish | well. I think my wife's going to return her G1, and switch to a touch pro. She's too frustrated with losing her data for the 3rd time |
| 06:54.20 | languish | *sigh* |
| 06:54.25 | Fnord^ | o.o |
| 06:54.30 | Fnord^ | how'd that happen? |
| 06:55.23 | languish | Well, her first master reset was to fix an issue with the radio. So she lost her txts in the messaging app then, and some data in a notepad style app |
| 06:55.36 | languish | now she knows to c/p the notepad info to email |
| 06:55.52 | languish | but she's been using a calorie counter |
| 06:56.03 | languish | and it doesn't have a way to export the data |
| 06:56.19 | languish | so she's going to lose that info |
| 06:56.21 | languish | it can't be c/p |
| 06:56.25 | sal323 | languish: sounds like an app idea :D |
| 06:56.45 | languish | yeah, I'm sure the app devs will get around to it |
| 06:56.54 | languish | but it doesn't help her now |
| 06:57.21 | languish | the second master reset was due to battery issues or something |
| 06:57.32 | languish | and the t-mobile app is the 3rd reason |
| 06:57.49 | *** join/#android Gary|tp (n=Gary1357@c-66-41-234-235.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 06:57.54 | languish | it screwed something up, and tmo is telling her the only way to fix it is to master reset, as a known issue |
| 06:58.08 | Leeds | can arbitrary apps get to the DB for other apps? |
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| 06:58.12 | languish | and from adb, I believe it |
| 06:58.12 | oyeoj | Gumby`: the built-in iM client does windows live, is that the same thing? |
| 06:58.13 | fnord__ | Bloody hell |
| 06:58.23 | Leeds | could one, for example, do a generic DB reader? |
| 06:58.33 | jbq | Leeds: nope, apps can't touch one another's data. |
| 06:58.37 | languish | the apps uninstalled and still getting com.tmobile.wifi/.client.WifiBroadcastReceiver errors |
| 06:58.57 | `Gumby | oyeoj: I am not sure i have that. I am using android in an emulator on windows mobile on my htc touch currently |
| 06:59.05 | Leeds | jbq: unless, say, something is running as root? ;-) |
| 06:59.24 | oyeoj | Gumby`: oh. wow. |
| 06:59.27 | languish | So, for my wife, android is a fail |
| 06:59.45 | stanter | `Gumby: seriously?! |
| 06:59.47 | languish | personally, I didn't put any info on that I would worry about losing |
| 07:00.03 | jbq | Leeds: saving the files won't necessarily help if you don't know what the files really contain. |
| 07:00.10 | stanter | `Gumby: is that really possible? seems wild |
| 07:00.23 | Fnord^ | languish, yeah that's why root is a bit of a requirement for me heh |
| 07:00.30 | `Gumby | stanter: yes seriously. I assume its running emulated..... it starts from an exe and the phone doesnt appear to reboot |
| 07:00.31 | Leeds | jbq: I wasn't talking about saving - just a 'hacking' tool |
| 07:00.36 | Fnord^ | cron is nice |
| 07:00.37 | `Gumby | runs off the sd card |
| 07:00.57 | stanter | holy cow |
| 07:01.28 | jbq | Leeds: if you know exactly how the app in question works, yeah, it can be done. |
| 07:01.43 | `Gumby | some things dont work, like the camera and I dont think the gps works either (but I have to read more) |
| 07:01.59 | Leeds | jbq: I'm talking about introspecting a sqlite db file - don't need to know anything about the contents to do that |
| 07:02.08 | `Gumby | however everything seems quick and snappy. funnily enough, moreso than wm6 |
| 07:02.35 | jbq | Well, except that some fields might be indirect references to outside data. |
| 07:02.45 | stanter | insane.. it seems faster than wm6..wow |
| 07:02.58 | Leeds | sure, but still |
| 07:03.03 | sal323 | how do i get my g1's ip? |
| 07:03.12 | spikebike | because there isn't a reboot does not mean the OS hasn't been replaced |
| 07:03.13 | cbeust | Faster than WM6 and written in Java, imagine that |
| 07:03.16 | spikebike | sal323: netstat |
| 07:03.24 | languish | yeah, there's a winmo android .cab |
| 07:03.35 | oyeoj | wow |
| 07:03.36 | oyeoj | nice |
| 07:03.44 | jbq | I'll admit that for simple apps there's a good chance that saving the entire database might indeed work. |
| 07:04.07 | stanter | @cbeust: its crazier than that... its also emulated |
| 07:04.12 | stanter | i think my head just broke |
| 07:04.13 | jbq | I just have that hasty habit as a framework engineer of seeing the edge cases that don't work much more than the general case that does work. |
| 07:04.52 | Fnord^ | i once emulated a gameboy in an emulated macintosh in an emulated amiga |
| 07:04.58 | Fnord^ | :P |
| 07:05.01 | `Gumby | lol |
| 07:05.14 | languish | hrm |
| 07:05.20 | stanter | funny |
| 07:05.55 | languish | this guy'll give me $700 for my wife's G1. That'll mean profit after paying off the t-mobile rape tax |
| 07:05.57 | `Gumby | running android on my touch does make me want to buy a G1 though |
| 07:06.13 | spikebike | languish nice |
| 07:06.15 | languish | and pay for her touch pro |
| 07:06.18 | sal323 | anyone use cron on g1? |
| 07:06.22 | Fnord^ | Daaaamn |
| 07:06.30 | spikebike | save for a touch HD |
| 07:06.31 | *** part/#android trav530 (n=trav@adsl-67-121-225-41.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net) |
| 07:06.50 | Fnord^ | sal323, planning to. i think it requires init.rc alteration...the watchdog is mean |
| 07:07.01 | languish | almost tempted to sell mine too. but I'm sort of entrenched |
| 07:07.06 | languish | I want to see where android goes |
| 07:07.14 | languish | even if I don't use it as my main phone |
| 07:07.58 | sal323 | Fnord^: cool. looking forward to it |
| 07:08.06 | `Gumby | are there both gsm and cdma versions of the G1? |
| 07:08.07 | Leeds | hmm... I seem to have been pushed an update |
| 07:08.12 | *** join/#android jerkface0 (n=jerkface@S0106000d3a2c0806.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 07:08.13 | Leeds | `Gumby: no, gsm only |
| 07:08.17 | `Gumby | damn |
| 07:08.36 | `Gumby | well that screws me over pretty well then. |
| 07:08.39 | languish | there'll be cdma android devices soon enough |
| 07:08.41 | languish | if not g1's |
| 07:08.49 | Fnord^ | any success in drawing to the framebuffer? |
| 07:08.57 | spikebike | leeds just say later |
| 07:09.18 | languish | and if you don't want the update, delete it from /cache |
| 07:09.21 | Leeds | spikebike: sure, already did... but I guess I need to get moving on protecting my root access :-) |
| 07:09.25 | languish | then change your otakeys filename |
| 07:09.31 | languish | heh |
| 07:09.34 | spikebike | ya |
| 07:09.38 | spikebike | or upgrade to a modded rc30 |
| 07:09.44 | Leeds | yeah, that's the plan |
| 07:09.50 | languish | having some issues with the modded rc30 |
| 07:09.53 | b0nn | Hi guys, Im trying to run the activitycreator, and I get the following error :ERROR: Package name must be composed of at least two Java identifiers." |
| 07:10.08 | Fnord^ | what issues? |
| 07:10.11 | Leeds | for the record, if anyone is interested, it appears to have been pushed OTA over EDGE to my phone sitting in Hong Kong, a long way from t-mobile |
| 07:10.24 | Leeds | b0nn: com.example.foo? |
| 07:10.32 | spikebike | yeah, leeds it should work over wifi, edge, or 3g |
| 07:10.35 | languish | spikebike, with the modded rc30, su, then go to /sys then vi, and try to writeout a file, or copy a file to that location |
| 07:10.47 | b0nn | oh |
| 07:11.00 | b0nn | I think I need to put a package name into the .java file? |
| 07:11.08 | b0nn | I had omitted that |
| 07:11.16 | sal323 | what about gcc on android? |
| 07:11.18 | spikebike | er /sys? |
| 07:11.19 | Leeds | spikebike: so it's polling then... pull, not push |
| 07:11.28 | spikebike | that's normally not writeable |
| 07:11.38 | spikebike | Leeds: ya |
| 07:11.49 | languish | i forgot, mount the fs as rw |
| 07:11.51 | languish | :) |
| 07:11.56 | spikebike | ah, that would do it |
| 07:12.07 | languish | mount -o remount,rw -t yaffs2 /dev/block/mtdblock3 /system |
| 07:12.38 | languish | appearently the su isn't all powerful |
| 07:12.58 | languish | and not everything you set in motion with it runs as root |
| 07:13.03 | Leeds | on a regular Linux system you can do "mount -o remount,rw /system" |
| 07:13.24 | spikebike | mount -o remount rw /system |
| 07:13.24 | spikebike | works for me on the g1 |
| 07:13.24 | languish | try it |
| 07:13.24 | spikebike | a little less typing than languish |
| 07:13.24 | Leeds | and not even root can write to a read-only fs |
| 07:13.25 | spikebike | ya |
| 07:13.44 | languish | unless you mount it as rw :) |
| 07:13.59 | languish | which doesn't seem to work in this case with /sys on the hacked RC30 for some people |
| 07:14.12 | spikebike | er do you mean /sys? |
| 07:14.15 | spikebike | or /system |
| 07:14.39 | languish | I mean /sys |
| 07:14.54 | Fnord^ | errr |
| 07:15.01 | languish | someone was trying to cp /sdcard/symlinks/timeout /sys/timeout |
| 07:15.08 | spikebike | er |
| 07:15.09 | languish | for whatever reason |
| 07:15.44 | spikebike | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:15.52 | languish | so I mounted the fs as rw, and tried to cp a txt file to /sys, or to writeout a vi txt file to it |
| 07:15.52 | spikebike | you dont' copy to it |
| 07:15.54 | Fnord^ | that's not normally there |
| 07:16.03 | Fnord^ | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:16.08 | Leeds | right |
| 07:16.10 | spikebike | you don't copy to it |
| 07:16.15 | spikebike | if any echo |
| 07:16.45 | spikebike | if anything echo |
| 07:16.59 | languish | still, it should work, even if it's a bad idea |
| 07:17.05 | spikebike | no, it shouldn't work |
| 07:17.08 | Leeds | no, it shouldn't |
| 07:17.11 | spikebike | it's an API to the kernel |
| 07:17.12 | languish | oh? |
| 07:17.19 | spikebike | only allowed defined behaviors work |
| 07:17.27 | Leeds | the filesystem simply doesn't implement the functionality of "create a new file from userspace" |
| 07:17.33 | spikebike | so if there was a sys/timeout, can you cat it and see 30 |
| 07:17.41 | stanter | so hows does one use adbd on the G1? or another device running android? |
| 07:17.43 | spikebike | you might be able to say echo 60 > /sys/timeout |
| 07:18.16 | *** join/#android davidw (n=davidw@213.47.186.146) |
| 07:18.20 | spikebike | but it's not a filesystem for storage, it doesn't persist across boots, and it doesn't support traditional I/O |
| 07:18.46 | languish | hrm |
| 07:18.51 | languish | well that would explain it :) |
| 07:19.04 | languish | I really should bone up on my *nix |
| 07:19.11 | languish | 9evidently) |
| 07:19.15 | spikebike | do a ls -R /sys to get a feel |
| 07:19.28 | kRutOn | stanter: It's in the development settings to enable adbd |
| 07:19.29 | spikebike | but I wouldn't suggest tweaking anything underthere randomly |
| 07:19.33 | Leeds | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:19.35 | languish | nod |
| 07:19.45 | spikebike | leeds I don't believe so |
| 07:19.53 | Leeds | spikebike: I know so |
| 07:20.04 | spikebike | leeds I've seen it on other unix's |
| 07:20.06 | spikebike | just like /proc |
| 07:20.26 | Leeds | show me? |
| 07:20.30 | Fnord^ | ok my phone now runs unix version 5 |
| 07:21.13 | spikebike | ummm |
| 07:21.26 | spikebike | hrm, not sure I recall which, my first guess would be solaris 10 |
| 07:21.54 | kRutOn | # cd sys -> /sys: does not exist |
| 07:22.12 | spikebike | in general kernel interfaces via filesystem, pam, and related aren't linux specific |
| 07:22.23 | kRutOn | Solaris has /system, but it's like /boot on Linux |
| 07:22.41 | Leeds | spikebike: I'm reasonably sure it wasn't there in Solaris 9, back when I had a @sun.com email address and was working on the kernel :-P |
| 07:22.49 | spikebike | I thought the super ridiculous device names pointed into /sys |
| 07:22.54 | spikebike | yeah not in sol 9 |
| 07:23.03 | kRutOn | no, I think they point to /devices |
| 07:23.41 | Leeds | we may have implemented a bit of /sys as part of project Janus - I honestly can't remember now |
| 07:24.39 | spikebike | if not I suspect similar functionality is under /proc |
| 07:24.49 | spikebike | I'm guessing it was on of the bsds then |
| 07:24.51 | Leeds | anyway, the Linux /sys may be conceptually based on something similar elsewhere, but it is very Linux-specific |
| 07:25.18 | Leeds | and I'm reasonably sure there was no /sys in Unixware, back when I was working on that :-) |
| 07:26.21 | spikebike | yeah it's newish |
| 07:26.29 | spikebike | linux had a lead in /proc, then several adopted it |
| 07:26.35 | spikebike | then linux forked /proc and /sys |
| 07:26.46 | spikebike | I've not seen anyone do it as well, but it seems like it's being done |
| 07:27.05 | spikebike | personally I feel stupid and blind without linux /proc around |
| 07:27.29 | Leeds | yeah, it's weird how you get used to that sort of thing |
| 07:27.34 | kRutOn | uh, /proc is from Plan 9 |
| 07:27.48 | spikebike | ya ya |
| 07:27.51 | kRutOn | heh |
| 07:27.58 | spikebike | first popular os |
| 07:28.03 | spikebike | and first open sourc |
| 07:28.04 | spikebike | e |
| 07:28.10 | sal323 | kRutOn: i thought that |
| 07:28.17 | spikebike | I read and loved the plan-9 papers |
| 07:28.19 | Leeds | about the only thing I've done shell-wise on my G1 (in the 26 hours or so I've had it) is poke around in /proc |
| 07:28.22 | stanter | why didn't it become as popular? |
| 07:28.30 | spikebike | it had a nazi license |
| 07:28.34 | spikebike | up till recently |
| 07:28.45 | sal323 | always wondered what happened to plan9 ... especially after it became open source |
| 07:28.48 | Leeds | first open source? |
| 07:28.55 | spikebike | that and it was pure but not particularly practical |
| 07:29.07 | stanter | nazi license.. do elaborate |
| 07:29.10 | stanter | please |
| 07:29.25 | spikebike | in fact from what I can tell 99% of plan9 in the last decade actually ran under linux |
| 07:29.48 | spikebike | oh the no commercial use, sign a contract, kiss our ass, pay us money, and we might let you see the source, but you can't distriubte. |
| 07:30.09 | spikebike | very recently I think it went mostly opensource, but still might be for non-commercial use |
| 07:30.11 | stanter | oh got it.. so not "really open"source |
| 07:30.26 | sal323 | "I started keeping a list of these annoyances but it got too long and depressing so I just learned to live with them again. We really are using a 1970s era operating system well past its sell-by date. We get a lot done, and we have fun, but let's face it, the fundamental design of Unix is older than many of the readers of Slashdot, while lots of different, great ideas about computing and networks have been developed in the last 30 year |
| 07:30.36 | spikebike | so basically when it could have had adoption it wasn't open source |
| 07:30.55 | stanter | makes sense |
| 07:31.02 | stanter | i remember my OS professor raving about it |
| 07:31.10 | sal323 | --Rob Pike is a Principal Engineer at Google, Inc |
| 07:31.13 | spikebike | and now that's it's at least pseudo opensource it's mostly irrelevant |
| 07:31.31 | Leeds | spikebike: you are aware of the theory that BSD would have taken off and Linux would have gone nowhere if it wasn't for the AT&T BSD legal problems in the early 90s? |
| 07:31.42 | spikebike | I think plan9fs was added to linxu recently |
| 07:32.00 | languish | (oh man, what have I started) |
| 07:32.03 | spikebike | leeds seems wildly optimisitc to me |
| 07:32.11 | spikebike | bsd license encourages forking |
| 07:32.18 | languish | blames spikebike and slips out the side door. |
| 07:32.19 | spikebike | and it forked into 100 versions |
| 07:32.25 | oyeoj | spikebike: yeah, it is NOW |
| 07:32.44 | DarkriftX | wow, this channel has turned into an OS fanboi battlefield |
| 07:32.47 | spikebike | even without the lawsuite I think the same thing would happen |
| 07:32.49 | Leeds | spikebike: Alan Cox has said that's why he moved to Linux |
| 07:32.56 | spikebike | DarkriftX: heh, well if there's nothing else more interesting being discussed |
| 07:33.02 | DarkriftX | i hear you spikebike |
| 07:33.14 | spikebike | linus managed to heard cats |
| 07:33.17 | sal323 | the conversation is very interesting |
| 07:33.21 | spikebike | the linux kernel still hasn't forked |
| 07:33.22 | languish | ok geniuses, figure out how to get my wife's data out of the messaging app |
| 07:33.30 | spikebike | and if anything is becoming closer to mainline |
| 07:33.39 | DarkriftX | drifts off to bed |
| 07:33.43 | spikebike | languish switch her to gtalk ;-) |
| 07:33.58 | languish | spikebike, can't help the externak idiots that don't use gtalk |
| 07:34.01 | languish | she does |
| 07:34.02 | Leeds | I think you mean herd :-) |
| 07:34.10 | spikebike | ah, yea |
| 07:34.12 | spikebike | h |
| 07:34.15 | Leeds | messaging=SMS? |
| 07:34.26 | languish | I assume |
| 07:34.31 | languish | txt'ing |
| 07:34.33 | sal323 | whatever happened to the gnu hurd anyway? |
| 07:34.43 | spikebike | sal heh, that's a very amusing stories |
| 07:35.00 | oyeoj | i'm sure it's still trucking.... maybe it can boot now? |
| 07:35.02 | Leeds | it's still limping along |
| 07:35.03 | spikebike | it was going to rule because of all of these advantages. Microkernels, easier development, pluggable pieces, message passing, etc. |
| 07:35.03 | oyeoj | heh |
| 07:35.13 | Fnord^ | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:35.15 | spikebike | radically faster development, the wave of the future...etc. |
| 07:35.22 | geist | teh futar! |
| 07:35.27 | spikebike | turns out all those advantages are actually disadvantages. |
| 07:35.28 | geist | clearly we are not ready for the future |
| 07:35.55 | spikebike | performance, stability, and development speed are way slower than the traditional |
| 07:36.06 | stanter | first time i went to the hurd website, i thought a brand new revolutionary OS had slipped under my nose |
| 07:36.19 | stanter | sounded like it was changing the world |
| 07:36.22 | spikebike | MACH was supposedly going to unify all unix against windows NT (which was the thread of the time) |
| 07:36.24 | oyeoj | as much as i love to hate on rms, i'm always at a loss when i have to use the bsd versions of eg 'ps' |
| 07:36.30 | sal323 | spikebike: lol so what the heck happen? these are suppose to be smart ppl! (mit material) |
| 07:36.31 | oyeoj | and none of the command line opts i am used to work |
| 07:36.32 | spikebike | everyone signed on (Dec, HP, sun, etc.) |
| 07:36.44 | spikebike | then everyone figured out it was a steaming pile of shit |
| 07:36.52 | sal323 | lol |
| 07:36.56 | stanter | lol |
| 07:36.57 | Leeds | oyeoj: that's nothing to do with RMS at all |
| 07:36.59 | spikebike | and went back to their propietary unix, except for dec which stuck it out with OSF |
| 07:37.16 | oyeoj | Leeds: the linux versions of those are gnu, yes? |
| 07:37.25 | Fnord^ | I don't think he coded procps |
| 07:37.43 | spikebike | Next was MACH based, and so is the current OSX, but it's been getting more macrokernel like by the day |
| 07:37.51 | Leeds | oyeoj: they support both the BSD and SysV command-line options... which one you personally use is purely historical |
| 07:38.12 | Leeds | spikebike: and now Solaris is really the only old UNIX which matters, and it's fading fast |
| 07:38.32 | spikebike | solaris is small, but holding stready from what I can see |
| 07:38.49 | spikebike | the sparcs are dying quick, cept for the t1000 t2000 which are growing jsut enough to offset |
| 07:38.53 | *** join/#android Leeds (n=richardc@n220246107224.netvigator.com) |
| 07:38.57 | oyeoj | Leeds: orly? i figured all the differences were added poast-linux |
| 07:39.03 | oyeoj | Leeds: thx for teh correction |
| 07:39.04 | sal323 | is it wrong to say opensolaris is slowly growing? |
| 07:39.21 | spikebike | seems pretty steady to me |
| 07:39.26 | Leeds | sal323: it may be that opensolaris is slowly growing - but solaris is quickly shrinking |
| 07:39.38 | spikebike | what's kinda interesting is linux is shrinking |
| 07:39.39 | oyeoj | Leeds: and in any event, the bsd versions dont do both ;-) |
| 07:39.43 | spikebike | cept for ubuntu |
| 07:39.56 | spikebike | to the degree that either ubuntu is going to stop growing |
| 07:40.03 | Leeds | spikebike: figures? |
| 07:40.07 | spikebike | or linux is going to start growing |
| 07:40.21 | spikebike | (desktop/server) it's wildy popular in many embedded spaces |
| 07:40.37 | spikebike | download stats, google trends, etc. |
| 07:40.47 | spikebike | suse, fedora, gentoo, slackware, etc... are all shrinking |
| 07:41.01 | spikebike | ubuntu has been growing |
| 07:41.03 | Leeds | gentoo is somewhat moribund... |
| 07:41.07 | spikebike | ya |
| 07:41.18 | Leeds | slackware is just where it was when I started with it in 1995, and reasonably happy there :-) |
| 07:41.21 | oyeoj | as t->+Inf debian pwns all |
| 07:41.28 | sal323 | so are all linux users migrating to ubuntu? |
| 07:41.37 | spikebike | seems that way |
| 07:41.39 | Leeds | I would say that fedora is growing, suse is probably about stable |
| 07:41.46 | Fnord^ | centos is doing well afaik |
| 07:42.04 | Leeds | points to netbooks |
| 07:42.07 | spikebike | dunno that fedora has been growing |
| 07:42.22 | sal323 | anyone ever use xenix? |
| 07:42.26 | *** join/#android eton_ (n=eton@ppp-58-8-13-190.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 07:43.00 | Leeds | sal323: you mean the formerly-Microsoft Unix? no, before my time |
| 07:43.09 | spikebike | http://www.madpenguin.org/cms/?m=show&id=7951 |
| 07:43.17 | spikebike | not the best url, but the first hit on google |
| 07:43.45 | sal323 | Leeds: perhaps it was better than dos |
| 07:44.08 | Leeds | ah-ha, an opinion piece... point proven |
| 07:44.24 | oyeoj | sal323: Gumby emulated it on windows mobile once |
| 07:44.24 | spikebike | the numbers seem to back it up |
| 07:44.39 | Leeds | where are the numbers? |
| 07:45.15 | Leeds | (reading back, it's possible you misunderstood my 'figures?' as meaning 'that figures?' rather than 'where are the numbers?') |
| 07:45.54 | sal323 | oyeoj: i'd have to see that |
| 07:47.26 | oyeoj | http://popcon.debian.org/stat/submission.png |
| 07:47.45 | oyeoj | not the same thing, but these are the arches that are popular in debian |
| 07:48.07 | jasta | like the email app when you first open i5 |
| 07:48.33 | jasta | err |
| 07:48.34 | jasta | [Boops |
| 07:48.46 | Leeds | jasta: yes, just like that |
| 07:49.28 | *** join/#android oavdeev (n=oavdeev@79.120.41.39) |
| 07:50.51 | sal323 | what's a good argument for keep telnet instead of replacing it with ssh? |
| 07:50.57 | sal323 | err keeping |
| 07:51.36 | ionstorm | how is the g1 selling against others right now |
| 07:52.07 | ionstorm | app idea: file encryption, message encryption, data safe |
| 07:52.13 | spikebike | leeds figured I've seen from how busy the mirrors are, calculated downloads, distrowatch, netcraft, and google trends |
| 07:52.15 | ionstorm | A+++ Idea |
| 07:52.31 | Leeds | spikebike: netcraft confirms: BSD is dying? |
| 07:52.50 | spikebike | leeds heh, seems reasonably stable as well, not that I've been paying close attention |
| 07:53.23 | spikebike | although they seem to be moving more towards embedded (obsd in firewalls), NAS, applicances, etc. |
| 07:53.24 | Fnord^ | Did any of you guys release the Term app to market? |
| 07:53.42 | spikebike | ionstorm I'm thinking of making an app that's basically a hardware token |
| 07:54.00 | Fnord^ | ionstorm, hmm good idea, i'll apt-get install bcrypt :P |
| 07:54.17 | ionstorm | ha wrd, ya i may install debian on this |
| 07:54.54 | ionstorm | gpg messaging would b nice tho |
| 07:55.14 | Fnord^ | I'd like to merge /data and /cache...not sure if that's possible |
| 07:55.32 | ionstorm | unionfs ? |
| 07:56.43 | b0nn | hmm |
| 07:56.54 | b0nn | this android simulator seems unresponsive |
| 07:56.56 | Fnord^ | nah make `em one partition. assuming they're partitions. i should look up mtd and find out what it is exactly |
| 07:57.06 | b0nn | I feel like Im doing it wrong |
| 07:57.18 | Fnord^ | b0nn, it's slow |
| 07:57.45 | spikebike | http://www.starryhope.com/tech/2007/ubuntu-just-how-popular-is-it/ |
| 07:57.59 | spikebike | is a good summary of a bunch of ways to measure popularity |
| 07:58.00 | ionstorm | my gf runs ubuntu |
| 07:58.20 | spikebike | kinda tricky to measure when something is free not only in cost, but to redistribute |
| 07:58.21 | ionstorm | my last 2 gf's ran it |
| 07:58.21 | ionstorm | lol |
| 07:58.33 | spikebike | hell I personally run a open mirror and don't track downloads |
| 07:59.13 | spikebike | fnord I suspect /cache will go away as people abandon ota |
| 08:00.28 | Leeds | spikebike: what? |
| 08:00.36 | spikebike | er wht? |
| 08:00.45 | Leeds | abandon ota? |
| 08:00.48 | Fnord^ | Most won't abandon ota. most don't know or care that their phones run linux |
| 08:00.54 | spikebike | ok |
| 08:01.03 | spikebike | for folks that keep root and can control their parititons |
| 08:01.10 | spikebike | I suspect /cache will go away |
| 08:01.21 | spikebike | better? |
| 08:01.24 | Fnord^ | :P |
| 08:01.34 | b0nn | hrm Error Type 1: Could not access the Package Manager! |
| 08:01.49 | Fnord^ | 8 megs free in data, 67 in cache... |
| 08:01.51 | spikebike | for people who don't keep root, they will consume whatever is spoon fed to them by tmo |
| 08:02.00 | Fnord^ | i could go symlink-crazy i suppose |
| 08:02.23 | spikebike | fnord either that or don't download 8 tip calculators ;-) |
| 08:02.29 | Fnord^ | hah |
| 08:02.30 | Fnord^ | yeah |
| 08:02.50 | Leeds | but 6 of them could get the tip wrong! |
| 08:03.05 | oyeoj | where are the java app binaries kept on android? |
| 08:03.10 | oyeoj | not in /sbin i presume |
| 08:03.18 | RyeBrye | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:03.31 | Fnord^ | and /system/app for default stuff |
| 08:03.36 | Fnord^ | hmm |
| 08:04.03 | Fnord^ | i wonder if zygote/servicemanager etc would run nicely under glibc instead of bionic |
| 08:04.09 | orci | would you recommend any voice recorders? the ones I found records for only short periods |
| 08:04.38 | oyeoj | does anyone know if eg Gmail.apk will run on a from-source compiled android |
| 08:04.39 | oyeoj | ? |
| 08:04.52 | languish | If anyone's up for it. A short "I have root on android, what now?" article/blog post or even wiki entry on DarkriftX's site, would be cool. |
| 08:04.53 | Fnord^ | dunno |
| 08:05.20 | spikebike | er |
| 08:05.32 | spikebike | oh your asking someone else to write it |
| 08:05.39 | spikebike | you're |
| 08:05.43 | languish | yes. someone with more clue than myself |
| 08:05.44 | Fnord^ | install php/apache and http://www.sqlitemanager.org/ ? |
| 08:05.51 | Leeds | languish: there's a bit of a catch22 there |
| 08:05.58 | Leeds | hmm, does anyone have apache running? :-) |
| 08:06.04 | Fnord^ | one sec |
| 08:06.10 | spikebike | heh, well with debian running it's a single command away |
| 08:06.16 | languish | there was an android httpd, dunno what happened to it |
| 08:06.25 | languish | i remember reading about it |
| 08:06.33 | Leeds | my unmetered EDGE account gives me a routable, unfiltered IP address... |
| 08:06.34 | Fnord^ | runs apt-get ....debian makes it too easy |
| 08:06.41 | spikebike | I'm sure there's a java http that is relatively light weight |
| 08:06.48 | spikebike | unfiltered? |
| 08:06.55 | Leeds | no filtered ports |
| 08:06.55 | spikebike | all ports open? |
| 08:07.01 | Leeds | as far as I can tell, yes |
| 08:07.05 | Fnord^ | i don't think udp traffic works? |
| 08:07.09 | spikebike | wow, strange, dynamic or static ip? |
| 08:07.17 | Leeds | upgrade later, dammit! |
| 08:07.20 | Leeds | dynamic |
| 08:07.35 | spikebike | upgrade now, it should only take 10 or so |
| 08:07.46 | Leeds | not until I've protected my root access |
| 08:07.52 | spikebike | no need if you upgrade |
| 08:07.58 | spikebike | upgrade comes with root |
| 08:08.02 | Leeds | huh? |
| 08:08.04 | Fnord^ | o.o |
| 08:08.07 | Fnord^ | heh |
| 08:08.13 | spikebike | http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root |
| 08:08.15 | spikebike | just do that |
| 08:08.24 | spikebike | with any phone with RC19 to RC29 |
| 08:08.43 | Leeds | "update later" meaning "no, I do not want to install the OTA update right now" as a response to the pop-up |
| 08:08.46 | spikebike | then tmo won't bother you with an "update" that steals root |
| 08:08.51 | *** join/#android Hai-Fai (n=jarmo@hoasnet-fe35dd00-42.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 08:08.57 | spikebike | correct, update later.. then race to the above URL |
| 08:09.00 | *** part/#android raidfive (n=adam@c-71-236-205-80.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 08:09.00 | Fnord^ | until rc31 |
| 08:09.02 | spikebike | otherwise a single wrong click |
| 08:09.09 | Fnord^ | needs to finish self-protecting recovery mod |
| 08:09.17 | spikebike | well if you follow the above you won't get pestered with rc31 either |
| 08:09.30 | Fnord^ | doesn't know c that well, and can't test changes in emulator =[ |
| 08:09.32 | oyeoj | âWe tried really hard to secure Android. This is definitely a big bug,â he said. âThe reason why we consider it a large security issue is because root access on the device breaks our application sandbox.â |
| 08:09.36 | oyeoj | :( |
| 08:09.46 | spikebike | yup |
| 08:10.01 | spikebike | well the problem is IMO security should protect my device from others... not me |
| 08:10.06 | Fnord^ | people do need to stop using setuid shells named su tho |
| 08:10.10 | Fnord^ | that's insecure |
| 08:10.16 | spikebike | I'm all for security, encryption, and DRM... as long as I have the keys |
| 08:10.25 | oyeoj | srsly |
| 08:10.37 | spikebike | it's mine dammit |
| 08:10.49 | spikebike | so you don't ship a way to do backups... find let me do them |
| 08:10.53 | Fnord^ | ideally a good custom update has su check a sqlite database, and includes a simple passwd changer gui app |
| 08:11.00 | spikebike | you don't allow VPN... fine let me do them |
| 08:11.20 | spikebike | you don't let me lie about my agent string so websites can censor me... fine let me fix it |
| 08:11.44 | spikebike | you don't let me use external storage to help fit my needs.... fine let me fix it |
| 08:12.30 | Fnord^ | :P |
| 08:13.37 | Fnord^ | hmm |
| 08:13.57 | Fnord^ | how does Exec.createSubprocess work? just normally like system()? |
| 08:14.06 | Fnord^ | ie can it run a shell script |
| 08:14.24 | b0nn | hmm, in the last 15 minutes, all my emulator has done has displayed ANDROID and a litle alien |
| 08:14.32 | b0nn | surely its not that slow? |
| 08:14.38 | Fnord^ | b0nn, it's not normally -that- slow |
| 08:14.56 | b0nn | am I supposed to switch it on? |
| 08:16.45 | Fnord^ | erm |
| 08:16.49 | b0nn | its hogging 80+% of my CPU and 20% (ish) of my RAM |
| 08:16.59 | Fnord^ | don't think so. not if it has the logo on it's screen |
| 08:17.08 | Fnord^ | I suspect shenanigans |
| 08:17.18 | b0nn | ? |
| 08:17.22 | tmzt | Fnord^: you might look at term source, but it should if there is an interp for that script (#!/bin/bash) for instance, else bash -c script or similar |
| 08:18.48 | b0nn | $ emulator -version |
| 08:18.48 | b0nn | Android emulator version 1.6 (build_id 110632-110632) |
| 08:19.31 | Fnord^ | tmzt, makes sense yeah |
| 08:19.47 | Fnord^ | b0nn, kill it, start with a clean datadir? |
| 08:20.06 | b0nn | clean datadir? |
| 08:23.26 | Fnord^ | yeah |
| 08:23.56 | Fnord^ | you need to start it with a -datadir option or similar, correct? |
| 08:24.20 | Fnord^ | fixes terminal app right alt/shift keys to work like connectbot. yay |
| 08:24.20 | b0nn | oh |
| 08:24.34 | b0nn | Ive just been starting it with "emulator" |
| 08:26.27 | *** join/#android uncategorized (n=uncatego@c-76-20-61-57.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 08:27.07 | Leeds | then it'll use ~/.android/SDK-1.0 as the datadir, I think |
| 08:29.52 | Fnord^ | oy |
| 08:30.11 | Fnord^ | terminal insists on replacing itself |
| 08:30.25 | Fnord^ | and i changed it to com.android.term2 |
| 08:34.47 | Fnord^ | hrm |
| 08:39.01 | *** join/#android mokolade (n=mokolade@85.221.112.173) |
| 08:40.54 | Fnord^ | >.< yes, the android build system is quite terrible |
| 08:50.37 | *** join/#android pjv (n=pjv@91.178.167.65) |
| 08:58.50 | *** join/#android zmedico (n=zmedico@ip68-4-152-120.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 08:59.55 | Fnord^ | Anyone succeed in making custom search widgets for desktop? |
| 09:05.56 | kRutOn | Anyone have a clue of what setLinearText() does |
| 09:07.19 | Fnord^ | nope |
| 09:07.50 | Fnord^ | kRutOn, hmm, got a connectbot suggestion |
| 09:07.56 | *** join/#android tauno (n=tauntz@118.192.50.195.sta.estpak.ee) |
| 09:08.23 | Fnord^ | Helper for setFlags(), setting or clearing the LINEAR_TEXT_FLAG bit |
| 09:08.58 | kRutOn | I feel like I'm getting the runaround :-) |
| 09:09.03 | Fnord^ | :P |
| 09:09.04 | *** join/#android kironono (n=kironono@dhcp-ubr1-2506.csf.ne.jp) |
| 09:09.09 | kRutOn | It says something about no cache.. |
| 09:09.35 | Fnord^ | uhm |
| 09:09.40 | Fnord^ | No clue |
| 09:10.04 | Fnord^ | Just did my first java coding - added connectbot-like right alt/shift behavior to terminal |
| 09:10.30 | languish | kRutOn http://wiki.droiddocs.net/Reference:Android.graphics.Paint#setLinearText |
| 09:14.50 | spikebike | sweet |
| 09:14.57 | spikebike | nice fnord |
| 09:17.10 | kRutOn | languish: Yeah, that doesn't help. |
| 09:18.46 | Fnord^ | Also white on black instead of on blue, and search button does '-' :P |
| 09:21.00 | Fnord^ | hmm, or not, with the search button |
| 09:22.07 | languish | kRutOn :( syr. I try. |
| 09:22.55 | languish | so now I go laugh at xkcd |
| 09:27.33 | *** join/#android yogesh (n=yogesh@59.160.172.220) |
| 09:31.58 | kRutOn | whee, apparently linear text flag does nothing |
| 09:32.00 | kRutOn | 1391 if (/*paint.isLinearText() ||*/ |
| 09:32.13 | stanter | woot! I just got android ported to my custom hardware! |
| 09:32.19 | stanter | kernel and all |
| 09:32.41 | stanter | playing with the API demos right now! |
| 09:32.50 | stanter | sorry i had to announce it to the world |
| 09:33.08 | kRutOn | stanter: Cool, what kind of hardware? |
| 09:33.22 | stanter | pxa-310 synaptics touchscreen |
| 09:33.33 | stanter | it literally just came off the fab |
| 09:33.43 | spikebike | cool |
| 09:33.55 | kRutOn | are you standing next to the fab? |
| 09:33.59 | spikebike | heh |
| 09:33.59 | stanter | lol |
| 09:34.01 | spikebike | is it warm? ;-) |
| 09:34.08 | stanter | i knew that was coming |
| 09:34.25 | spikebike | er so it's a arm and a touch screen... foor? |
| 09:34.26 | spikebike | for? |
| 09:34.37 | stanter | but yes it is warm, only because of the screen |
| 09:34.48 | stanter | a client is building a platform for something |
| 09:34.56 | stanter | which is undefined |
| 09:35.01 | spikebike | but no cell modem |
| 09:35.03 | kRutOn | what's the screen resolution |
| 09:35.04 | stanter | nope |
| 09:35.17 | stanter | 480x272 |
| 09:35.31 | spikebike | battery? |
| 09:35.52 | stanter | or the other orientation/rotation (still have to figure that out) |
| 09:36.09 | stanter | it is battery powered, i gracefully(err) ignored that in the porting |
| 09:36.20 | spikebike | my dream was a n800 with a cell modem and more ram |
| 09:36.31 | stanter | just has to be demoable with android |
| 09:36.31 | spikebike | the g1 comes close... alas many less pixels |
| 09:36.44 | andatche | anyone in the UK got the OTA update yet? |
| 09:37.10 | stanter | truth be told, lacking any buttons it is a bit unusable and i am killing processes with kill -9 |
| 09:37.25 | spikebike | yeah, no keyboard is a major issue so far |
| 09:37.38 | spikebike | although the openmoko folks are likely working on that pretty hard |
| 09:37.39 | tomgibara | andatche: I haven't |
| 09:37.46 | stanter | there isnt even an onscreen one right? |
| 09:37.57 | spikebike | nope |
| 09:37.59 | spikebike | not yet |
| 09:38.00 | kRutOn | stanter: Some people have made one, but it's not in the default repository |
| 09:38.07 | spikebike | the ota updates are one huge clusterfuck |
| 09:38.07 | *** join/#android rupeshgujare (n=Administ@59.160.172.220) |
| 09:38.20 | spikebike | I bought 2 phones, 1 got RC29, then RC30 |
| 09:38.30 | stanter | oh good, so ill have to search for it at some point |
| 09:38.36 | spikebike | and even days later the first phone was still on RC19 |
| 09:38.44 | stanter | i left out the networking too, needed to reduce all the noise in the porting |
| 09:38.53 | Fnord^ | spikebike, it came from the shop rc30? |
| 09:39.02 | spikebike | nope, both came with rc19 |
| 09:39.03 | stanter | getting a www.google.com page to show up when i open the browser is the next priority |
| 09:39.33 | Fnord^ | oh good |
| 09:39.37 | spikebike | is there a website to browse the android market from? |
| 09:39.41 | spikebike | (without a g1) |
| 09:39.45 | languish | no |
| 09:39.56 | spikebike | lame |
| 09:39.59 | languish | yep |
| 09:39.59 | ionstorm | how are the apk's retrieved? |
| 09:39.59 | stanter | damn the OpenGL works! i am way too excited |
| 09:40.03 | spikebike | even a read only/no comments would be nice |
| 09:40.15 | languish | ionstorm, a google server |
| 09:40.29 | ionstorm | anyone sniff while running the market app |
| 09:40.34 | languish | spikebike, agreed. already bugged romain about it |
| 09:40.40 | ionstorm | im sure their is a list of some sort it grabs |
| 09:40.55 | ionstorm | there* |
| 09:40.59 | spikebike | heh |
| 09:41.07 | spikebike | ah, finally a zork interpreter ;-) |
| 09:41.15 | ionstorm | ;] |
| 09:43.20 | Leeds | ah well, that seems to have worked... now have r30(ish), su and busybox |
| 09:44.31 | spikebike | stanter careful, it's easy to become unaturally fond of androids |
| 09:44.49 | *** part/#android rupeshgujare (n=Administ@59.160.172.220) |
| 09:44.50 | *** join/#android trav530 (n=trav@adsl-67-121-225-41.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net) |
| 09:45.04 | spikebike | back so soon? |
| 09:45.05 | trav530 | anyone know where /cache/recovery/command comes from? |
| 09:45.08 | trav530 | yup :)_ |
| 09:45.11 | trav530 | how was you walk? |
| 09:45.12 | spikebike | heh, uh oh |
| 09:45.15 | trav530 | s/you/your |
| 09:45.17 | spikebike | good |
| 09:45.23 | trav530 | any fog yet? |
| 09:45.26 | spikebike | saw someone else typing on a similar phone |
| 09:45.28 | stanter | lol, i think im excited from the: it took a lot of work to get this to work and im glad i got this far point of view |
| 09:46.02 | trav530 | maybe it was me, spying on you |
| 09:46.07 | spikebike | maybe |
| 09:46.26 | spikebike | there's an older tmo phone with a slide out keyboard... slapjack or something? |
| 09:46.38 | trav530 | sidekick? |
| 09:46.41 | spikebike | ah, yeah |
| 09:46.43 | trav530 | heh |
| 09:46.59 | spikebike | rebuilding the images yourself? |
| 09:47.02 | trav530 | "/cache/recovery/command"? anyone? anyone? :) |
| 09:47.05 | *** join/#android rupeshgujare (n=Administ@59.160.172.220) |
| 09:47.05 | trav530 | yeah |
| 09:47.08 | *** part/#android rupeshgujare (n=Administ@59.160.172.220) |
| 09:47.20 | trav530 | i'm still trying to fully grok the recovery process |
| 09:47.39 | spikebike | yeah, that's the reason I just used the moded ones |
| 09:47.47 | spikebike | I don't really feel confident doing it myself yet |
| 09:48.01 | trav530 | i progress as I understand. almost there. |
| 09:49.57 | *** join/#android kironono_ (n=kironono@dhcp-ubr1-2506.csf.ne.jp) |
| 09:51.52 | Leeds | so zygote is the graphical system? |
| 09:54.04 | *** join/#android rupeshgujare (n=Administ@59.160.172.220) |
| 09:54.09 | Fnord^ | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:54.12 | trav530 | zygote is sort of like a "process spawner" |
| 09:54.56 | *** join/#android yogeshkumarlal (n=yogesh@59.160.172.220) |
| 09:55.23 | trav530 | fnord: Hmmm... i just flashed a custom recovery image and that's the first error i get when i try to enter recovery mode. |
| 09:55.36 | trav530 | isn't recovery mode supposed to work even w/out an OTA? |
| 09:55.38 | afsd3 | I'm using TextView setText to output a string, is there anyway to give a certain color to half the string? I mean at a certain point in the string. |
| 09:57.22 | Fnord^ | trav530, yeah it'll still work |
| 09:57.56 | Fnord^ | afsd3, split it into two strings? |
| 09:58.26 | afsd3 | okay =) wasn't sure if there was some escape char or something to let you change color of text |
| 09:58.34 | trav530 | fnord: okay, so am i supposed to create /cache/recovery/command before booting into recovery mode? |
| 09:58.43 | *** join/#android alexript (n=alexript@banzai.sp.ru) |
| 10:00.01 | Fnord^ | not needed |
| 10:00.33 | trav530 | oh, so the error is benign? |
| 10:01.40 | *** join/#android trigatch4 (n=robjacks@c-68-48-9-210.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 10:02.42 | Fnord^ | yah |
| 10:03.11 | *** join/#android PhasesEvilTwin (n=robjacks@c-68-48-9-210.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 10:05.10 | *** join/#android soundmonster (n=leonid@poirot.aot.TU-Berlin.DE) |
| 10:05.26 | trav530 | heh, okay. then i guess my question instead becomes this: is the recovery image signed in some way? And if so, how? I'm under the impression that the only sort of signing that goes on is .zip/.jar signing (MANIFEST/CERTs/etc.) |
| 10:06.53 | spikebike | can't see how the recovery.image could be signed |
| 10:07.03 | trav530 | me either |
| 10:07.10 | trav530 | but for some reason, i can't get the log to say "using test keys" |
| 10:07.22 | trav530 | unless that was some sort of hack that was written by JF |
| 10:07.38 | spikebike | Oh, maybe |
| 10:07.45 | trav530 | now that i think about it, it might have been, since i'd expect it instead to use a hyphen (i.e., "using test-keys" |
| 10:07.47 | spikebike | that sounds familiar |
| 10:08.08 | spikebike | post install with modded rc30 it say production keys under device-info |
| 10:08.10 | trav530 | i was assuming it was a standard log output... probably not |
| 10:08.21 | trav530 | really? |
| 10:08.49 | trav530 | i've never heard of "production keys" |
| 10:08.56 | spikebike | ya under build description it says kila user 1.0 tc4-rc30 ota-rel-keys, release-keys |
| 10:09.07 | trav530 | oh, "ota-rel-keys, release-keys" you mean |
| 10:09.14 | spikebike | ya |
| 10:09.18 | trav530 | i thought you LITERALLY meant "production-keys:" |
| 10:09.38 | trav530 | but still, sorta weird - i was under the impression that his RC30 was signed with test keys |
| 10:09.38 | spikebike | well my memory was fuzzy enough just to know it didn't say test-keys |
| 10:09.43 | trav530 | heh |
| 10:09.46 | trav530 | understood |
| 10:09.56 | spikebike | correct it is signed with the test keys |
| 10:10.23 | trav530 | are you sure it doesn't say "xda-dev" |
| 10:10.23 | trav530 | ? |
| 10:10.25 | trav530 | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:10.50 | trav530 | (obviously you are, since you just quoted it) ... duh |
| 10:11.12 | spikebike | yeah under device-info I don't see xda-dev mentioned anywhere. |
| 10:11.22 | trav530 | hm... *shrug*... okay |
| 10:11.39 | spikebike | that's a good suggestion, not sure JF followed the recommendations for doing it yourself |
| 10:12.04 | trav530 | no, i'm actually looking at his RC30. |
| 10:12.16 | trav530 | i think what's happening is that the fingerprint is in more than one place |
| 10:12.25 | trav530 | i think he changed one, but a text string persists from elsewhere |
| 10:12.28 | trav530 | i'm guessing, though |
| 10:12.34 | spikebike | well it's not under device info -> build description |
| 10:12.37 | spikebike | or build id |
| 10:12.44 | trav530 | hm, 1 sec |
| 10:12.50 | spikebike | or linux kernel version |
| 10:13.04 | *** part/#android soundmonster (n=leonid@poirot.aot.TU-Berlin.DE) |
| 10:13.06 | trav530 | ah. |
| 10:13.17 | trav530 | he changed the fingerprint, but not the description. they are similar, but not exactly the same |
| 10:13.23 | *** join/#android tauno (n=tauntz@118.192.50.195.sta.estpak.ee) |
| 10:13.25 | trav530 | ro.build.description=kila-user 1.0 TC4-RC30 116143 ota-rel-keys,release-keys |
| 10:13.25 | trav530 | ro.build.fingerprint=tmobile/kila/dream/trout:1.0/TC4-RC30/116143:user/xda-dev |
| 10:13.46 | spikebike | ah, yeah I see that first line, but not the second |
| 10:13.57 | trav530 | yeah... |
| 10:14.00 | spikebike | best of luck |
| 10:14.02 | spikebike | sleeps |
| 10:14.04 | trav530 | thx, nite! |
| 10:15.37 | trav530 | Yes, i've just verified that the "using test keys" string was a JF hack |
| 10:16.32 | afsd3 | how could you use setText(); to display have the string in a certain color? |
| 10:18.56 | trav530 | afsd3: not sure, sorry. there might be a way, but it may have to be set as a property/attribute, rather than some sort of encoding |
| 10:19.08 | trav530 | (i've only barely started using the android sdk() |
| 10:19.57 | afsd3 | hmm |
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| 10:28.11 | *** part/#android trav530 (n=trav@adsl-67-121-225-41.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net) |
| 10:28.44 | afsd3 | is there anyway to center text with Linearlayout? |
| 10:29.04 | afsd3 | opps yeah with gravity my bad <_< |
| 10:29.08 | afsd3 | dont know how I missed that |
| 10:29.42 | *** join/#android osmosis (n=steven@cpe-76-94-193-157.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 10:31.34 | yogeshkumarlal | how to port android on begale |
| 10:31.44 | *** join/#android ozzloy (n=ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy) |
| 10:31.47 | yogeshkumarlal | can anybody help me |
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| 10:56.08 | afsd3 | can you center text with LinearLayout? I can't seem to be able to do it ether with adding android:gravity="center" or using setGravity =( |
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| 11:13.16 | digitalspaghetti | BBC are a bit slow: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7722367.stm |
| 11:15.16 | afsd3 | is this the correct way to use gravity with Textview to center text. android:gravity="center" |
| 11:25.55 | languish | wow |
| 11:26.14 | languish | whatever source google used for their maps of brooklyn, I've found a few inacuracies |
| 11:26.26 | languish | just like my spelling there |
| 11:30.52 | afsd3 | I dont think google does the maps themselfs I think anther company does it |
| 11:31.53 | kRutOn | the NOC guys (when they're not going down rows with shopping carts, pulling out the dead computers) are required to map cities by hand |
| 11:34.48 | languish | afsd3, that's why I said "whatever source" :) |
| 11:48.52 | digitalspaghetti | interesting, google talk now has voice chat |
| 11:49.04 | digitalspaghetti | GTalk as the new Skype for phones? ;) |
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| 11:59.43 | b0lland | Hi #android, I have a surfaceview on which I try to draw a canvas. I'm a total android noob and I don't realize why the draw isn't reflected on screen. The three relevant lines of code here: http://pastebin.com/d6957cd2 the first line which sets the background on the surfaceview works, the other don't. Any advice? |
| 12:00.07 | umdk1d3 | peeks |
| 12:02.32 | umdk1d3 | b0lland: you may need to lockCanvas before drawing? |
| 12:02.42 | umdk1d3 | then later unlockAndPost |
| 12:03.04 | b0lland | ok thanks! :) |
| 12:03.16 | umdk1d3 | thats when using a SurfaceHolder |
| 12:03.42 | umdk1d3 | SurfaceHolder.lockCanvas will give you a temporary canvas to work with |
| 12:04.18 | umdk1d3 | b0lland: are you trying to do advanced drawing, or just need to do some simple rendering? |
| 12:04.46 | umdk1d3 | sometimes it might be easier to just override the onDraw() of a View that you create yourself |
| 12:04.51 | b0lland | I'm just playing around, so I'd say simple rendering, but I think I need to read up a little on the surfaceholder then |
| 12:05.27 | umdk1d3 | yea i would recommend overriding onDraw() for now |
| 12:05.43 | umdk1d3 | SurfaceViews are great for accelerated stuff, but they can be difficult to work with sometimes |
| 12:05.50 | b0lland | okay thanks I'll try it :) |
| 12:06.45 | umdk1d3 | b0lland: heres a quick example |
| 12:06.46 | umdk1d3 | http://code.google.com/p/connectbot/source/browse/trunk/connectbot/src/org/connectbot/TerminalView.java |
| 12:07.12 | umdk1d3 | then you can reference your view in xml layouts |
| 12:07.43 | umdk1d3 | for example, <org.connectbot.TerminalView android:id... /> |
| 12:08.13 | umdk1d3 | in that example, we tried using surfaceview to accelerate the custom rendering were doing for the ssh client |
| 12:08.15 | b0lland | thanks so much :) I was looking at the lunarlander example but this looks less bloated |
| 12:08.26 | umdk1d3 | but ran into issues with drawing not turning out the way we expected |
| 12:08.27 | b0lland | oka |
| 12:08.57 | umdk1d3 | this is a good place to start, and then look back at the accelerated stuff later |
| 12:09.12 | umdk1d3 | i think the issue we ran into is that we couldnt incrementally update the SurfaceView |
| 12:09.21 | umdk1d3 | we had to redraw the entire buffer each time we locked it |
| 12:09.33 | *** join/#android Delvien (n=Delvien@cpe-75-180-28-178.columbus.res.rr.com) |
| 12:10.19 | umdk1d3 | if your lookign to work with accelerated games, then SurfaceView is probably your best bet |
| 12:10.49 | Delvien | Anyone know where to get a good screen protector (not a cheap one that is hard to apply) |
| 12:10.53 | umdk1d3 | Canvas c = SurfaceView.getHolder().lockCanvas(); ... getHolder().unlockCanvasAndPost(c); |
| 12:10.55 | b0lland | ok :) |
| 12:11.31 | umdk1d3 | b0lland: btw curious, are you just looking around right now, or looking to draw something specific? |
| 12:12.57 | b0lland | umdk1d3, actually I'm just playing around with the android API:s, I have no intention of rendering anything fancy |
| 12:13.11 | umdk1d3 | okay cool stuff :) |
| 12:13.25 | b0lland | umdk1d3: indeed, like the API:s and documentation so far |
| 12:13.53 | umdk1d3 | if your interested, i would really recommend looking into the 9patch stuff |
| 12:14.07 | umdk1d3 | its a pretty smart way of handling images and streching them |
| 12:15.04 | b0lland | ok, I just briefly went past that in the documentation, I'll look into it if I can figure out something I'd like to stretch ;) |
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| 12:28.53 | tauno | digitalspaghetti, where did you get that from? |
| 12:29.29 | tauno | digitalspaghetti, Google guys have always stated that playing audio from a stream is not possible in this SDK release.. |
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| 12:40.02 | digitalspaghetti | tauno: GTalk for Desktop/Web browser |
| 12:40.13 | digitalspaghetti | but it may eventually make it to the phone, which would be cool |
| 12:40.24 | blau | we need an open financial intent or content provider |
| 12:41.20 | tauno | digitalspaghetti, ah.. just rumors then:) |
| 12:42.08 | digitalspaghetti | i've tried it out today, very nice |
| 12:42.28 | digitalspaghetti | essentially means GTalk is now on a par with the likes of MSN |
| 12:44.09 | tauno | digitalspaghetti, yeah but I think that we won't see voice chat in the Android client any time soon |
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| 12:50.58 | digitalspaghetti | and i never did say I was spreading rumors :p i just said it was interesting ;) |
| 12:51.29 | b0lland | umdk1d3, wohoo now it renders :) got stuck for a bit when I didn't realize I needed a second constructor for my custom view that took xml parameters |
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| 12:59.41 | tauno | what's the xml version of View.setScrollBarStyle(int style) ? |
| 13:01.28 | tauno | found it |
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| 13:02.29 | tauno | http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/R.attr.html#scrollbarStyle |
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| 13:04.13 | savid | Has anyone tried this? http://www.intomobile.com/2008/11/10/force-android-rc-30-update-on-your-t-mobile-g1-and-keep-root-access.html |
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| 13:06.19 | Neverender1 | savid: yes |
| 13:08.28 | savid | Neverender1, experiences? Did it work well? No bricking? |
| 13:09.16 | Neverender1 | worked fine for me |
| 13:09.33 | savid | Cool. I just got my G1 yesterday. RC28 (phew) |
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| 13:11.03 | deebo | is the g1 available in the europe yet? |
| 13:11.45 | Neverender1 | the uk |
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| 13:15.29 | blau | hey what do you guys think of allowing users to store their data on my server |
| 13:15.39 | blau | and have it linked by their devices unique id |
| 13:16.03 | blau | for the apps i develop |
| 13:16.12 | deebo | stupid? |
| 13:16.22 | deebo | unless you can guarantee the server will be up for 10 years |
| 13:16.54 | deebo | not to mention privacy |
| 13:17.58 | zewm_ | ^--- Agreed (not to mention the cost of maintaining the server) |
| 13:18.14 | blau | a few k of data per person isnt gonna be much |
| 13:18.39 | mmarker | depends on the app as well. does it survive the tunnel effect (momentary lapse of connectivity) |
| 13:19.25 | blau | mmarker, the app wouldnt depend on the data on the server |
| 13:19.50 | blau | it would be for other sutff, like being able to print reports or charts easily, backing up without having to connect your phone to a computer |
| 13:20.24 | blau | if it syncs once a week, that should be fine at least for my cases |
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| 13:21.02 | blau | if you ever restore your device to factory defaults, the data is grabbed off the server |
| 13:21.32 | blau | still bad idea? |
| 13:23.51 | blau | although i guess its still worthless for if you lose the phone |
| 13:24.12 | blau | i want somethign thats going to be seemless and not require a password, but that seems unlikely :( |
| 13:24.28 | blau | i guess i could only enable it for my version of the s |
| 13:24.41 | blau | so only i can upload and download, that would make me happy |
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| 13:27.52 | blau | but then i think anyone could possibly access the data, since the unique id could be known by any software |
| 13:27.53 | blau | boo |
| 13:28.13 | blau | guess im stuck with a normal user/pass approach for access |
| 13:28.41 | blau | is there seriously no speed dial app yet? |
| 13:30.38 | zewm_ | is away.. autoaway/10m [lp!on] |
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| 13:34.34 | umdk1d3 | hmm |
| 13:34.46 | umdk1d3 | blau: /me ponders a dht using phones |
| 13:35.26 | mmarker | thats kinda sick. I like it. |
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| 13:44.17 | blau | umdk: dht? |
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| 13:54.04 | tomgibara | blau: speed dial - you can add contact onto your desktop, not quite speed dial pretty good |
| 13:54.16 | tomgibara | *but pretty good |
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| 14:29.09 | savid | Does anyone know how to use the "make your own" feature of AnyCut? |
| 14:30.10 | michaelnovakjr | coworker went to update his G1, it rebooted and never came back :) |
| 14:31.00 | savid | michaelnovakjr, so he bricked it? was it a manual update? |
| 14:31.10 | michaelnovakjr | it was a legit update |
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| 14:56.03 | Damm | michaelnovakjr, if he pulls the battery, puts it back on powers it on... does it go to the warning sign? |
| 14:56.12 | Damm | if so, he can just flash the full patch and be done |
| 14:56.18 | michaelnovakjr | nope, nothing comes up |
| 14:56.24 | michaelnovakjr | just a black screen |
| 14:56.35 | jbq | Doesn't even get a G1 logo? |
| 14:56.40 | michaelnovakjr | nope |
| 14:57.19 | jbq | Woah, that's bizarrely messed up, because it means that the bootloader is screwed up, but none of the updates that were sent so far update the bootloader. |
| 14:57.38 | Damm | jbq, exactly |
| 14:57.54 | Damm | not even the hack your RC30's modify your boot loader |
| 14:57.56 | Damm | just the boot image |
| 14:58.32 | michaelnovakjr | it vibrates when it turns on, you can see the screen is on but it stays black |
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| 14:59.57 | michaelnovakjr | i wonder if he typed something bad before the update :) |
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| 15:00.25 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 15:00.37 | michaelnovakjr | i typed <enter>reboot<enter> and it rebooted the device |
| 15:00.40 | michaelnovakjr | but still doesn't work |
| 15:00.54 | michaelnovakjr | so there's at least an active shell |
| 15:02.14 | jbq | oh, so it went far enough to boot the kernel and a good part of init. |
| 15:02.23 | jbq | (and the update didn't stick) |
| 15:03.09 | michaelnovakjr | werid |
| 15:03.25 | jbq | The fact that the screen is dark sounds like a hardware problem more than a software problem in this case - though it might be correlated. |
| 15:03.34 | mikez5 | So if the reboot thing worked, the update must have been pre-RC30, or the RC30 update failed to install boot.img. |
| 15:03.50 | mattgyver83 | after updating to rc30, is it possible to download and manually install rc29 to roll back the firmware? |
| 15:04.43 | mikez5 | No, I don't think you can downgrade (atleast if you are running the real RC30). |
| 15:05.06 | jbq | It's not supposed to be possible. Plus, with the fixes that were made in RC30, that might not be such a good idea. |
| 15:05.58 | mattgyver83 | guess ill just have to wait for a different root workaround, tmobile tricked me ;l |
| 15:06.44 | jbq | You can use the time to look for a legitimate use for being root, and for submitting patches to Android so that this use case becomes possible without being root :-) |
| 15:07.02 | mikez5 | How did you get tricked? Were you trying to avoid RC30 but failed somehow? |
| 15:07.44 | mattgyver83 | No, i had updated my phone at work, not reading about the update first. |
| 15:08.40 | Disconnect | jbq: how do i play with new kernel/modules (ahem, vpn or scheduler) or back up my files without being root? currently the only way to flash the device is by replacing the keys as root.. |
| 15:09.18 | Disconnect | "the community will fix it" is the BEST legitimate use case for being root. (or is this another one of those "is not a phone its a platform" doublethinks? the community will...fix their apps. just like every other mobile platform.) |
| 15:09.31 | jbq | You want Android running on some open hardware in that case. |
| 15:09.46 | Disconnect | ..and until then, android is a phone, not a platform. |
| 15:09.59 | mikez5 | android is a platform; G1 is a phone. |
| 15:09.59 | jbq | You're playing with words and you know it ;-) |
| 15:10.33 | Disconnect | at a minimum, until then the whole "community will fix it" is a lie. the community -can't- fix it. i'd love to get in there and figure out whats hoarking up wifi. but thats not going to happen because the community can only fix apps, not platform. |
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| 15:10.37 | mikez5 | The best solution would be to make hardware available with USB enabled bootloader. |
| 15:10.57 | mikez5 | Flashing the phone over USB is easier and more reliable than installing OTAs from the SD card. |
| 15:11.25 | jbq | ... which brings us back to the issue of open hardware... |
| 15:11.35 | Disconnect | jbq: i'm honestly trying to explain that android is and remains a closed system until such time as i can buy working hardware with reflashing access. and i'm not alone - take a look at recent posts in the unfortunately-titled "most pathetic email app ever" thread on android-discuss. |
| 15:12.04 | mikez5 | I don't know who you are accusing of telling lies. Android promised source and delivered; TMobile promised phones and delivered. |
| 15:12.05 | jbq | Android isn't a product. It's literally a blob of source code. |
| 15:12.12 | Disconnect | there is an excellent post about buying a car with android on it. lemme find a link. (and its not mine, although i'd encourage you to read mine as well) |
| 15:13.40 | Disconnect | http://groups.google.com/group/android-discuss/msg/dd0b069c5a1b7a2e |
| 15:13.46 | Damm | michaelnovakjr, grab the full rc30 patch, stick it on a microsd... boot it up doing the power + home trick, alt+l, alt+s |
| 15:13.50 | Damm | and do a full update |
| 15:13.53 | Damm | it's that or the screen is fried |
| 15:13.55 | jbq | I've had a look at the title of that thread you mentioned, decided that reading it would be a waste of my time. |
| 15:14.31 | michaelnovakjr | Damm: it seems somethng is messed up |
| 15:14.31 | Disconnect | yah it is unfortuantely named. it got better after a couple days. |
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| 15:14.49 | jbq | I agree with Damm - if the system works far enough that you can guess that it has started the kernel and init but the screen is black, this sounds like a hardware problem. |
| 15:15.07 | DJTachyon | oh thanks god |
| 15:15.15 | Damm | and if you can type reboot, he didn't get the update |
| 15:15.18 | DJTachyon | order confirmation for my new G1 |
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| 15:15.28 | DJTachyon | that only took 3 weeks to get replaced |
| 15:15.38 | Damm | how'd you break the old one DJTachyon? |
| 15:15.47 | DJTachyon | it was defective from the factory |
| 15:15.52 | DJTachyon | the accelerometer/compass |
| 15:15.56 | jbq | DJTachyon: yay for the replacement :) , nay for the delay :( |
| 15:16.01 | DJTachyon | yeah .. heh |
| 15:16.28 | DJTachyon | i pull up street view compass mode in NYC and it just shows me a picture of the road |
| 15:16.41 | DJTachyon | bubble, pacman, they all dont work |
| 15:17.01 | DJTachyon | the video player doesnt turn when you rotate it, etc .. there is a pretty big thread on the tmo forums |
| 15:17.15 | DJTachyon | people got it to work by smacking it around .. but that didnt work either |
| 15:17.16 | DJTachyon | :P |
| 15:17.50 | Damm | seems fairly extreme |
| 15:18.04 | Damm | I guess I should be thankful I haven't broken my G1 yet. |
| 15:18.12 | Damm | (other then i'd have to buy a new one out of pocket) |
| 15:18.21 | DJTachyon | aww they even are overnighting it, how nice |
| 15:18.35 | DJTachyon | heh .. |
| 15:18.51 | Delvien | Anyone know where to get a good screen protector (not a cheap one that is hard to apply) |
| 15:19.18 | Disconnect | Delvien: intellishield is great. |
| 15:19.22 | *** join/#android spearce (n=spearce@nat/google/x-bd5c56c41e0fcd54) |
| 15:19.28 | Disconnect | has it on his g1, mbp, wif's bb, coworkers bb.. |
| 15:19.51 | DJTachyon | my wife wants a G1, but she needs to be able to check work email with it |
| 15:19.57 | mikez5 | has never had any trouble with the screens getting scratched up with no protection. |
| 15:20.02 | Disconnect | got an associates link too if you want to help me out. :) but even if not its really good. (and some of the extra pieces can be used to do things like stopping the creak) |
| 15:20.10 | DJTachyon | i have a feeling she will be getting a BB Bold .. |
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| 15:20.25 | Disconnect | mikez5: yah but the glass feels like hell and gets really dirty really fast. |
| 15:21.52 | KNY | Delvien, I asked a few of the Google guys that lurk here and they said they tested the screen pretty rough for 18 months and haven't scratched it |
| 15:22.03 | KNY | I was worried about it scratching, too |
| 15:22.19 | vol | Has anyone made a rinky dinky simple compass app yet? |
| 15:22.22 | Damm | i've kept the factory screen whatever on it |
| 15:22.28 | Damm | and it seems to be pretty good |
| 15:22.29 | vol | it seems like something that would be out there right away |
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| 15:22.41 | Disconnect | vol: orienteer |
| 15:22.45 | Damm | vol, most people like to think they know their north from their south. |
| 15:22.45 | KNY | Damm, I couldn't stand how that felt under my finger, so I had to take it off |
| 15:23.01 | Damm | KNY, only problem I have with it is when I get the screen wet... |
| 15:23.10 | Damm | or finger |
| 15:23.12 | KNY | Damm, ha! you haven't met my girlfriend, I see. North is in front of her, South is behind. |
| 15:23.13 | Damm | and then it's slippery as heck |
| 15:23.19 | KNY | Or uphill/downhill |
| 15:23.30 | vol | Damn: it's harder when the sun isn't out :P |
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| 15:24.47 | vol | anyway, thanks |
| 15:24.53 | vol | I need to check out the market place again |
| 15:26.14 | Damm | vol, depends where you live... for me the mountains are to the east, so that gives you a good bearing. |
| 15:28.18 | Disconnect | hmm. i wonder if it makes sense to fork the imap-idle email client into a simple biff notifier.. |
| 15:28.27 | vol | Damm: I kind of know which way is which around me, and I don't really have much NEED for a compass |
| 15:28.40 | vol | I just like having a fun little toy like this |
| 15:28.48 | KNY | vol, build one of those vibration belts |
| 15:28.54 | vol | vi.... what |
| 15:28.58 | vol | that sounds dirty ;D |
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| 15:29.17 | vol | is it a belt that vibrates in the direction of north? |
| 15:29.20 | KNY | https://bandgap.rsnsoft.com/mediawiki/index.php/Compass_Belt |
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| 15:30.48 | vol | KNY: ha, cool. Bre Pettis's jacket is pretty cool too |
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| 15:33.30 | Delvien | isonnect i cant find that brasnd onkline |
| 15:33.34 | Delvien | weow |
| 15:33.38 | Delvien | wow |
| 15:33.47 | Delvien | fat fingered that one |
| 15:34.09 | Delvien | disconnect i cant find that brand online |
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| 15:35.52 | Disconnect | Delvien: cheat, use my link :) www.gotontheinter.net click the ad on the right (yah i need to update my page more often. or.. you know.. at all.) |
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| 15:43.19 | Delvien | 15 dollars!?!? |
| 15:43.54 | Delvien | its plastic for pete's sake |
| 15:44.18 | brocktice | Delvien, just don't put your keys in the same pocket with it and you'll be fine. |
| 15:44.33 | vol | ... |
| 15:44.36 | vol | yeah, I do that |
| 15:44.39 | vol | phone is fine so far |
| 15:44.50 | brocktice | People do the most amazingly abusive things to their phones and then call them pieces of crap. |
| 15:44.53 | vol | mostly because I make sure my phone is facing flat against my leg |
| 15:44.56 | brocktice | After they break. |
| 15:44.59 | brocktice | vol, that helps |
| 15:45.07 | brocktice | That's a good idea even if the keys aren't in there. |
| 15:45.16 | vol | brocktice: I just call them pieces of crap when they're poorly programmed |
| 15:45.16 | brocktice | Bump a table corner with the screen out and you could be in trouble. |
| 15:45.23 | vol | *COUGH RAZR COUGH* |
| 15:45.38 | brocktice | The OS on the razr2 v8 was much better |
| 15:45.44 | brocktice | and the A2DP support was superb |
| 15:45.47 | brocktice | Unlike the G1 |
| 15:46.26 | vol | I just didn't like that it would sometimes decide that when I pressed down, I actually meant down-up |
| 15:46.35 | vol | so I would key in V, then press down twice |
| 15:46.40 | vol | to call Valentine, my girlfriend |
| 15:46.51 | vol | except sometimes it would decide "nah, not really" and stop on Vadim, my friend |
| 15:46.51 | Disconnect | brocktice: according to store.androidcommunity.com there is a whole line of sony stereo bluetooth headphones SPECIFICALLY for the g1. (yes i know is bs, i just hate that sort of ebay-style advertising. "kingston 4g sdhc card FOR G1/CURVE/RAZR/...") |
| 15:46.57 | brocktice | On the RAZR or v8? |
| 15:47.00 | vol | saying "Hello, suger butt" gets very awkward. |
| 15:47.04 | Disconnect | lol |
| 15:47.14 | vol | the RAZR |
| 15:47.21 | brocktice | Yeah, I did hear the OS was crap. |
| 15:47.38 | brocktice | Disconnect, you can hook up stereo bluetooth headphones all you want. |
| 15:47.43 | brocktice | If you want the same thing in both ears. |
| 15:47.53 | Disconnect | right |
| 15:47.54 | *** join/#android matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com) |
| 15:48.08 | brocktice | At low quality, no less. |
| 15:48.27 | Delvien | so how resilient is the g1 screen with no protector |
| 15:48.39 | Disconnect | http://store.androidcommunity.com/t-mobile-g1-bluetooth.htm or - better - http://store.androidcommunity.com/content/accessories/9-115.htm |
| 15:48.59 | brocktice | rolls eyes |
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| 15:49.39 | brocktice | yeah the first link is not so bad |
| 15:49.45 | brocktice | It's one thing to list things that are compatible |
| 15:50.04 | brocktice | It's another thing to name the product and say it's "for" something when really it's much more general. |
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| 15:51.07 | *** mode/#android [+o cbeust] by ChanServ |
| 15:51.33 | Disconnect | ..and that product isn't compatible. |
| 15:51.44 | brocktice | Well... it is. Sort of. |
| 15:51.55 | brocktice | It will pair and you can make phone calls. |
| 15:52.00 | Disconnect | some of the wording is safer in other parts of the site ('compatible with android devices') but android devices don't support stereo at all. and the 'select a product for specific compatibility' ... |
| 15:52.00 | brocktice | But it's a stretch for sure. |
| 15:52.26 | Disconnect | it lists "superior stereo sound" as a feature.. |
| 15:52.46 | brocktice | The wireless stereo speakers with "high definition stereo sound" are worse. |
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| 15:53.24 | brocktice | hahahaha |
| 15:53.29 | brocktice | Or bluetooth GPS receivers. |
| 15:53.31 | brocktice | That's rich. |
| 15:53.40 | brocktice | For a device with GPS built in. |
| 15:53.44 | Disconnect | damnit. totally unrelated but kvm needs a multi-open lockout on hdd files. :( i just booted 2 vms with the same hdd image. |
| 15:53.53 | Disconnect | brocktice: not only built in but you -can't- pair another one |
| 15:54.05 | *** join/#android mmarker_ (i=d0365e09@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-455081ec2178483b) |
| 15:54.23 | Disconnect | (I could see the advantages - throw the bt gps onto the back deck or magnet it in the trunk or something when the phone doesn't get good reception in the cabin, for example) |
| 15:55.12 | *** join/#android jbq (n=jbq@72.14.224.1) |
| 15:55.44 | brocktice | But yeah, unlike the headphones, if it can't pair at all that's ridiculous. |
| 15:56.37 | Disconnect | i'm sure google will come along and tell them to stop being 'android' at some point. right? |
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| 15:58.38 | wastrel | hi |
| 16:00.34 | mmattice | you can't pair a bt gps device to the phone? |
| 16:00.36 | *** join/#android PINguAR_ (n=PINguAR_@88.235.146.65) |
| 16:01.05 | PINguAR_ | any clues when will dev challenge 2 start? |
| 16:01.51 | vol | it already has; didn't you get your golden ticket yet? |
| 16:01.58 | *** join/#android KNY (n=KNY@leonidas.kickersny.com) |
| 16:03.32 | Leeds | is there any information regarding a2dp support anywhere? |
| 16:03.41 | PINguAR_ | vol: nope ;P did you? |
| 16:03.47 | brocktice | mmattice, Actually I haven't tried, was just going on what Disconnect said. |
| 16:03.52 | vol | no : ( |
| 16:03.55 | vol | I was just lying |
| 16:03.55 | brocktice | I have one. Maybe I should give it a shot. |
| 16:04.05 | PINguAR_ | vol: =) |
| 16:04.17 | vol | Yeah, I kind of wonder what happens when you pair a BT GPS |
| 16:04.30 | vol | does it give you two sets of location managers? |
| 16:04.42 | brocktice | It's out in my car, though, which is currently covered in snow. |
| 16:04.47 | brocktice | So I'll try it another time. |
| 16:05.20 | unix_lappy | Leeds: enjoying the G1? |
| 16:05.59 | Disconnect | snow? sounds fun |
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| 16:06.38 | brocktice | Disconnect, eh, it's all melty-welty. |
| 16:06.44 | Disconnect | still. |
| 16:06.53 | brocktice | Better for snowballs I guess |
| 16:07.40 | Disconnect | http://www.wunderground.com/webcams/captaincracker/1/show.html not my cam but thats pretty much what it looks like here. :( |
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| 16:09.16 | brocktice | Ah, I lived in MD until recently. |
| 16:09.21 | brocktice | Definitely further south than MN |
| 16:09.29 | Disconnect | just a bit |
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| 16:15.27 | *** mode/#android [+o cbeust] by ChanServ |
| 16:19.43 | vol | adb -e forward tcp:1234 tcp:1234 |
| 16:19.47 | vol | error: more than one device and emulator |
| 16:19.51 | vol | (1 device, 1 emulator) |
| 16:19.55 | vol | known issue? |
| 16:20.11 | *** join/#android muthu_ (n=mobeegal@59.92.61.157) |
| 16:21.15 | KNY | vol, you use -s to set which device/emu you want |
| 16:22.14 | vol | why can't I use -e? it works for shell, why wouldn't it work for forward |
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| 16:36.53 | *** join/#android jexe (n=jesseboy@static-64-115-213-78.isp.broadviewnet.net) |
| 16:41.18 | *** part/#android frmu (n=frankmur@86-44-92-118-dynamic.b-ras2.bbh.dublin.eircom.net) |
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| 16:43.50 | ttuttle | Hey, whenever I request GPS location updates, I always get a saved location update even if the GPS isn't working. How do I tell that this update is not real? |
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| 16:49.05 | KNY | vol, it's right in the docs: returns an error if more than one emulator is running. |
| 16:49.16 | *** join/#android Terdhex (n=fes004@host-208-68-238-61.biznesshosting.net) |
| 16:49.17 | KNY | vol, adb doesn't know the difference between an emulator and a device |
| 16:49.47 | KNY | erm, hmm. I might be wrong on that. |
| 16:50.10 | KNY | it might be a bug :) |
| 16:50.12 | *** join/#android blau (n=blau@c-68-37-236-163.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 16:51.43 | blau | anyone aware of anything in the api that let syou listen for holding a button down? |
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| 16:55.06 | KNY | blau, you mean a long press or an onButtonDown() sort of thing? |
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| 16:58.15 | blau | on button down, like a worldwide thing like on palm os |
| 16:58.22 | blau | err neither of those actually |
| 16:58.30 | blau | keyboard button was what i was referring to |
| 16:58.52 | blau | im a keyboard pressing kind of guy |
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| 17:02.09 | dd94300 | can somebody tell me the process for the volume keys? |
| 17:02.56 | zewm_ | + is up and - is down |
| 17:04.17 | dd94300 | i mean is it a part of com.android.phone or com.android.acore process |
| 17:04.30 | Damm | zewm_, don't lie... + sets the time bomb, while - undresses you with the x-ray camera |
| 17:04.31 | zewm_ | hah, I don't know man, I was just yankin' your chain |
| 17:04.46 | blau | crash acore and see if they still work :) |
| 17:05.31 | zewm_ | question: What is the learning curve to make an app for android knowing nothing about coding other than a bit of QBasic back in high school? |
| 17:06.01 | blau | did you learn qbasic or did you learn programming |
| 17:06.15 | zewm_ | umm |
| 17:06.17 | blau | if you just learned qbasic, id say its a fairly big curve, maybe even harder than coming from nothing |
| 17:06.24 | zewm_ | Well our programming class was based in Qbasic |
| 17:06.26 | blau | but if you learned about programming and just did it in qbasic |
| 17:06.38 | *** join/#android schmylan_ (n=schmylan@38.114.107.1) |
| 17:06.39 | zewm_ | yeah, it was programming class |
| 17:06.45 | blau | not sure if im being clear |
| 17:06.58 | zewm_ | ok let me rephrase |
| 17:06.59 | blau | im probably not, but i swear i understand myself |
| 17:07.20 | zewm_ | 9th and 10th grade I did qbasic, 11th I did C++ and 12th we went back to Visual Basic |
| 17:07.32 | zewm_ | like I have a good idea of programming basics |
| 17:07.47 | blau | was any of that object oriented programming? |
| 17:07.47 | zewm_ | like if I sat here and read up documents |
| 17:07.51 | zewm_ | no |
| 17:07.59 | blau | thats gonna be the biggest hurdle |
| 17:08.10 | blau | i suggest giving it a shot anyway, its not impossible to understand |
| 17:08.26 | blau | and if you had an interest in programming as far back as 9th grade, then you cant be too stupid |
| 17:08.34 | jbq | Having seen some C++ will at least have made you familiar with a C-like syntax, so you should be able to read through the sample code and API demos. |
| 17:08.36 | blau | the sdk comes with great examples and docs |
| 17:08.44 | *** join/#android schmylan (n=schmylan@38.114.107.11) |
| 17:08.56 | zewm_ | in high school I was heavy into computers |
| 17:09.09 | zewm_ | I used to run Linux (Slackware) and do Qbasic/C++ basic programming |
| 17:09.18 | zewm_ | but then I kind of fell out of computers after high school |
| 17:09.51 | blau | its easy, android needs more developers |
| 17:09.53 | blau | get crackin |
| 17:10.00 | zewm_ | I have an idea for a simple program |
| 17:10.04 | zewm_ | application * |
| 17:10.26 | blau | whats your idea, if you dont mind |
| 17:10.32 | savid | Is there a way to see what apps are using the most CPU? right now my g1 is running 20% at idle :-p |
| 17:10.34 | blau | ill try to point you in the right direction |
| 17:10.50 | blau | howd you find 20%? |
| 17:11.09 | ttuttle | There's a top program on the system. (I wrote it.) |
| 17:11.11 | zewm_ | I want to take apple.com/trailers and make it a simple list (latest trailers) and have it stream when you choose a movie trailer |
| 17:11.20 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@wg-d232064.dsl.fsu.edu) |
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| 17:11.28 | zewm_ | I'm checking to see if they use XML |
| 17:11.32 | blau | zewm, do the trailers already stream? |
| 17:11.55 | *** join/#android schmylan_ (n=schmylan@38.114.107.1) |
| 17:11.56 | zewm_ | Well I was on revision3.com via the browser app and it streamed the quicktime (h.264) videos right from the website |
| 17:12.05 | zewm_ | that's what gave me the idea |
| 17:12.26 | zewm_ | the first video player from the android market streamed the mp4 file |
| 17:12.28 | zewm_ | instead of downloading it |
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| 17:13.13 | *** part/#android bszabo (n=bszabo@ip72-208-41-138.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 17:13.16 | tauno | huh.. how do I delete all the contacts from the address book? |
| 17:13.29 | blau | tauno, go into your gmail account and do it there is the quickest |
| 17:13.56 | blau | otherwise have fun long clicking every contact |
| 17:14.08 | blau | or do you mean programatically? |
| 17:14.21 | tauno | no.. but I have no SIM card at the moment |
| 17:14.26 | tauno | so it can't sync |
| 17:14.40 | *** join/#android spackest (n=cahillej@216.49.181.128) |
| 17:15.14 | tauno | every other hone I have seen has "delete all contacts" option in the addressbook.. |
| 17:15.19 | tauno | or in worst case in the settings |
| 17:15.24 | blau | i havent seen that anywhere |
| 17:15.37 | blau | the big thing android seems to avoid is do something to all |
| 17:15.38 | jbq | if you have wifi, you should be able to sync with no SIM card. |
| 17:15.45 | blau | or even do something to multiples |
| 17:16.03 | *** join/#android schmylan__ (n=schmylan@38.114.107.11) |
| 17:16.25 | Disconnect | is there a way to sms multiple contacts without having to memorize them all? (pick off a list or something) |
| 17:16.26 | tauno | so, let me get this straight - in order to use a basic feature called "delete all contacts" I have to open the browser, go to gmail, delete all contacts there and let it update? :) |
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| 17:17.21 | *** join/#android mikey (n=mike@93-96-140-104.zone4.bethere.co.uk) |
| 17:17.27 | wastrel | is delete all contacts a basic feature? |
| 17:17.34 | wastrel | i think that would be an infrequent operation |
| 17:17.36 | mikey | mmm...im getting an unhandled exception in emulator.exe |
| 17:17.46 | mikey | the sdk was working fine all this time :/ |
| 17:17.56 | mikey | everytime i try to launch my project, it happens |
| 17:18.10 | tauno | well I use it frequently : / |
| 17:18.12 | blau | you broke something in your project |
| 17:18.26 | blau | ive never used delete all contacts on any of my phones |
| 17:18.45 | blau | except the g1 cause it had like a billion contacts in it from my gmail account |
| 17:19.17 | tauno | I even don't remember what account I used to register the phone.. so I can't log in into it in gmail that easily :P |
| 17:19.18 | Disconnect | i've used factory-wipe before (usually surrounded by backup/restore..sigh) but never delete-all-contacts |
| 17:19.21 | zewm_ | blau: I have a C++ for dummies book in my closet, should I read up on that first? |
| 17:19.35 | Disconnect | tauno: email yourself :) |
| 17:19.59 | mikey | ok, i downloaded the latest commit from my repo, it still gives the error |
| 17:20.08 | mikey | this is before the project is even launched in androud |
| 17:20.12 | mikey | android * |
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| 17:20.15 | tauno | if it's a feature that noone uses, then why on earth does every other phone have it? it's not like it's a lot of work to do ;) |
| 17:20.33 | Disconnect | i've never seen it on my symbian devices |
| 17:20.33 | tauno | and I REALLY use it and need it ;) |
| 17:20.35 | blau | zewm: nah you should be fine |
| 17:20.44 | mikey | happens also with the api demos |
| 17:20.59 | blau | mikey: redownload the sdk? |
| 17:21.30 | blau | ive messed stuff up by closing and opening the emulator in odd ways |
| 17:22.09 | *** join/#android ralfz (n=ralf@m201-20.dsl.tsoft.com) |
| 17:22.09 | andyross | Seems like the appropriate Google Magic (tm) would have been to figure out a way for you never to have to worry about having too many contacts. Kinda like how gmail made everyone forget about folders. |
| 17:22.25 | wastrel | it's true |
| 17:22.26 | ttuttle | hasn't forgotten about folders |
| 17:22.31 | blau | i dont think about how many contacts i have |
| 17:22.33 | Disconnect | andyross: the problem is, first google magic made everyone have 25,000 useless contacts :) |
| 17:22.35 | blau | i just star typing the name |
| 17:22.43 | blau | but im a keyboard guy |
| 17:22.43 | ttuttle | still gets a strange feeling when he archives an email without "putting it somewhere" |
| 17:22.53 | andyross | doesn't use gmail either, nonetheless it changed a lot of the rules of the game as far as email goes. |
| 17:22.54 | wastrel | yeah i keep the thing closed most of the time |
| 17:22.54 | Disconnect | and you have to admit, the gmail contact manager is godawful |
| 17:22.56 | Damm | first rule of #android, blame google |
| 17:23.06 | wastrel | also i want an easier way to call a contact's other phone number |
| 17:23.10 | Damm | it's all googles fault, and your fault for wearing goggles to buy google. |
| 17:23.18 | blau | my keyboard is always on :) |
| 17:23.24 | *** join/#android jexe (n=jesseboy@static-64-115-213-78.isp.broadviewnet.net) |
| 17:23.25 | wastrel | right now i have to long press, tap view contact, then tap the number i want |
| 17:23.35 | blau | wastrel, you dont have to long press |
| 17:23.38 | blau | just tap the contact |
| 17:23.44 | Disconnect | wastrel: look them up from the similar-but-different contacts tab instead of the dialer |
| 17:23.52 | wastrel | in the recent calls list blau |
| 17:23.53 | Disconnect | then a tap will open the contact and you can tap the #. |
| 17:24.07 | wastrel | Disconnect: then i have to scroll thru hundreds of contacts :] |
| 17:24.15 | Disconnect | spelldial helps with that |
| 17:24.19 | Disconnect | but yah |
| 17:24.27 | blau | wastrel, wait where are you just tapping once to call? |
| 17:24.30 | unix_lappy | andyross: not everyone, a lot of people dont use gmail. |
| 17:24.39 | tauno | ok, deleted all contacts in gmail.. they are still there in the contacts in android.. |
| 17:24.40 | wastrel | blau: call log in the dialer |
| 17:24.43 | unix_lappy | and no client that I know of has taken the gmail approach to email. |
| 17:24.50 | blau | oh |
| 17:24.50 | wastrel | Disconnect: spelldial is a 2-hand operation |
| 17:24.55 | mikey | noooo, still giving errors :O |
| 17:24.56 | blau | why not use favorites? |
| 17:25.05 | Disconnect | wastrel: no its not. its an app that lets you T-9 dial |
| 17:25.07 | blau | mikey, maybe you broke eclipse? |
| 17:25.21 | wastrel | oic it's an app |
| 17:25.23 | mikey | java projects still work :/ |
| 17:25.27 | wastrel | i will look thanks. |
| 17:25.40 | tauno | do I have to push a special button so it syncs back to android and all my contacts are gone? :) |
| 17:25.40 | mikey | i'll uninstall and reinstall the sdk add on for eclipse |
| 17:25.44 | blau | favorites list you click once to get a list of all numbers then click again |
| 17:25.57 | blau | tauno, should sync automatically if its setup right |
| 17:26.00 | wastrel | blau: good tip thanks |
| 17:26.02 | andyross | My point wasn't to rave about gmail. It was that a lot of the problems of classic applications can be routed around with some cleverness. The gmail example was just that "fast search" was what users *really* wanted, and "folders" were just the groupthink regime that had grown out of the requirement. |
| 17:26.19 | tauno | blau, "data syn.." options are all ticked in settings |
| 17:26.30 | blau | tauno, give it a few mins? |
| 17:26.30 | tauno | blau, and the phone is connected to the net.. |
| 17:26.31 | andyross | The complaint here was "too many contacts", and I was wondering if the *real* requirement was just "easy contacts to find". |
| 17:26.35 | blau | ive never noticed a problem |
| 17:26.37 | tauno | don't have time.. come on.. |
| 17:26.50 | blau | i think theres a way to force a manual sync |
| 17:27.13 | blau | wastrel: what aboit voice dial? |
| 17:27.58 | blau | im working on a project that most people are going to think is ridiculous |
| 17:27.59 | blau | lol |
| 17:28.23 | mikey | :( |
| 17:28.24 | blau | a sort of command line for calling, txting, running apps, searching |
| 17:28.24 | mikey | Unhandled exception at 0x00436070 in emulator.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation writing location 0x00040004. |
| 17:28.34 | mikey | it's been working fine for over a month |
| 17:29.25 | blau | itll work a bit like the google search bar combined with quicklaunch shortcuts |
| 17:29.30 | tauno | ..it finally synced back.. yeah.. all my contacts are gone.. it only took like 20 minutes :P |
| 17:30.39 | tauno | if only htere was a way to add this "delete all" option to the contacts app.. hey wait.. there is :) |
| 17:30.44 | tauno | ..if only I had time :S |
| 17:31.00 | KNY | blau, unless it's a widget (it's not), I doubt I would use it |
| 17:31.06 | blau | you can add it, but good luck replacing the contacts app |
| 17:31.07 | blau | :( |
| 17:31.10 | KNY | tauno, why not just log into gmail and delete your contacts there? |
| 17:31.25 | KNY | blau, I'm just saying, I wouldn't start up an app that starts up apps |
| 17:31.31 | KNY | kinds defeats the purpose, no? |
| 17:31.36 | *** part/#android spackest (n=cahillej@216.49.181.128) |
| 17:31.38 | tauno | blau, I mean add it so everyone gets this amazing innovative feature ;) |
| 17:32.07 | blau | ohhh |
| 17:32.15 | blau | kny, it would be a keyboard shortcut |
| 17:32.28 | KNY | blau, ah |
| 17:32.32 | blau | if i could replace the search button i would |
| 17:32.34 | Damm | innovation... your G1 vibrates and rings when you fart |
| 17:32.37 | Damm | to cover up you farting |
| 17:32.48 | tauno | KNY, I think it's kind of .. sorry.. stupid... to fire up the browser, enter gmail.com, log in, navigate to contacts, select "mark all", then press delete, then log out, then wait for >5 minutes so it will sync and delete all contacts.. |
| 17:33.16 | blau | but the closest ive been able to come up with is having my app consume all the quicklaunch shortcuts from a to z and then default to opening that in a second or so if nothing else is typed |
| 17:33.25 | KNY | tauno, I meant through your PC. I know it's not ideal but it beats doing it the hard way |
| 17:33.46 | Damm | hrad reset, create a new account |
| 17:33.47 | tauno | KNY, it sure does but what if I'm not near a pc.. |
| 17:33.47 | Damm | fixed |
| 17:33.48 | Damm | hard* |
| 17:33.56 | tauno | damn, yeah, that sounds reasonable :D |
| 17:34.04 | tauno | Damm* |
| 17:34.51 | mikey | strange, it worked fine now that i launched it manually |
| 17:35.23 | *** join/#android RyeBrye (n=RyeBrye@108.248.sfcn.org) |
| 17:38.18 | blau | i dont understand how its so important to delete all contacts |
| 17:38.24 | blau | that if you are not near a pc the end of the world comes |
| 17:38.32 | blau | and just use the browser on your g1 anyway |
| 17:39.31 | ali1234 | i don't know how the G1 works, but my gmail seems to add everyone i ever email as a contact (to gtalk too). most of them i don't even have a phone number for, let alone ever want to speak to them on the phone. if i had to search through that list all the time for the 4 or 5 people i actually ever call, i would probably get annoyed about it. |
| 17:39.56 | blau | ali, they dont show up in your contacts list if they dont have a phone num |
| 17:40.15 | ali1234 | well then i dunno what people are complaining about then :) |
| 17:40.19 | blau | at list mine doesnt |
| 17:40.26 | blau | they do show in in gtalk tho |
| 17:40.40 | Damm | if you use IM... your gong to just be a sad face |
| 17:40.45 | Damm | setup Maverick for your Google Talk |
| 17:40.47 | Damm | and be a happy face. |
| 17:40.59 | KNY | blau, you can set the contacts list to just show those with numbers ... or all |
| 17:41.11 | KNY | I don't know who would want to show all, but the option is there |
| 17:41.24 | blau | you know what irks me, how people on the market with apps clearly inferior to mine are getting just as good ratings |
| 17:41.33 | blau | and dont get the 1 star reviews that i get |
| 17:42.01 | blau | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:42.18 | blau | i had some debate about mccain and obama in the reviews of one of my apps |
| 17:42.18 | KNY | what's your app? |
| 17:42.36 | blau | that one was dg SMS Screen Alert |
| 17:42.42 | KNY | are you dg*? |
| 17:42.44 | blau | my main one is dgMoney |
| 17:42.45 | blau | yes |
| 17:42.47 | KNY | ah |
| 17:42.50 | Disconnect | KNY: thats true for any of them. even if you dismiss the 'clearly inferior' label they are all full of spam and crap |
| 17:43.28 | KNY | yeah, I especially like the one-star reviewers that just say "first!" or something equally stupid |
| 17:43.51 | blau | or this wonderful review "it suck...does work" 1 star |
| 17:43.56 | blau | wtf is that supposed to mean |
| 17:44.29 | blau | actually maybe they have been moderating some reviews... alot of my 1 stars seem to be gone |
| 17:44.47 | KNY | maybe they went back and changed their rating |
| 17:44.54 | blau | or maybe they just dissapeared temporarily, the market ratings and stats are so fucked |
| 17:45.15 | blau | or it seems to be that way |
| 17:45.36 | blau | like reviews that i know were from last week or something are showing up as from the current day |
| 17:45.38 | blau | every day |
| 17:45.46 | *** join/#android markf (n=markf@nat/google/x-c75a04667b01b046) |
| 17:46.06 | dmoffett | There are some bugs in the review code for sure. |
| 17:46.24 | blau | i liked it better, when each new revision was hiding the old reviews |
| 17:46.36 | blau | now i have no idea what issues users are experiencing |
| 17:46.59 | KNY | I wish the market had update notifications :-/ |
| 17:47.03 | blau | aside from the people who email me, but for the most part those people actually like the software and are just asking for more features |
| 17:47.21 | blau | kny, its really easy to implement your own update checker as a developer |
| 17:47.33 | KNY | blau, I know, but an integrated one would be nice |
| 17:48.03 | blau | i agree |
| 17:48.13 | *** join/#android cybereagle (n=cybereag@unaffiliated/cybereagle) |
| 17:48.13 | Damm | i kinda wish you could modify the vibration |
| 17:48.21 | Damm | to double vibrate on SMS's |
| 17:48.37 | Disconnect | Damm: to be longer and/or stronger so it can be detected? i tend to miss it even when its sitting flat on a hard surface :( |
| 17:48.43 | blau | damn: catch the sms incoming and vibrate in your own app? |
| 17:48.54 | Damm | Disconnect, yep |
| 17:48.57 | blau | vibrate is weak, and i thought i read somewhere that theres 2 motors |
| 17:49.09 | Disconnect | there are |
| 17:49.12 | Damm | blau, there is 2 motors. |
| 17:49.16 | Damm | however some nights it won't wake me up |
| 17:49.18 | Damm | others it does |
| 17:49.20 | Disconnect | one is for picking thing sup in the home app. which is nice but .. who cares. |
| 17:49.22 | blau | why does it suck then :( |
| 17:49.39 | Damm | I was just holding it as i texted myself and it was light. |
| 17:49.40 | Damm | :( |
| 17:49.43 | Damm | like 1 motor is dead |
| 17:49.51 | Disconnect | Damm: it only uses 1 at a time |
| 17:50.04 | *** join/#android Poohba (n=rcampbel@63.215.212.242) |
| 17:50.16 | Damm | Disconnect, I'm half tempted to move my pages back to my AT&T phone... as it will vibrate for 15seconds straight on texts |
| 17:50.30 | Damm | and i love how it vibrates on each ring for incoming calls |
| 17:50.38 | Damm | so it constantly vibrates as it rings. |
| 17:50.43 | Disconnect | yah. i had to set a ringtone that was really high and beepy for messages before i was able to get pages reliably (eg at night) |
| 17:50.59 | Damm | I'm going to have to. |
| 17:51.04 | Disconnect | and that is at cross-purposes with the inability to mute a notification without unlocking it and dragging down the bar. counterproductive in meetings... |
| 17:51.15 | Damm | setup locale |
| 17:51.17 | Damm | :) |
| 17:51.36 | Damm | your home = loud as crap... everywhere else is normal |
| 17:51.50 | Disconnect | yah fuck that shit. (to quote innumerable reviews :) ..) it keeps blinking in and out of work settings. which results in it turning the ringer back on (and up) all the time. |
| 17:52.16 | Disconnect | reviews in general, not locale specifically |
| 17:52.17 | Damm | it works fine for me. I defined my home, and work, and it's worked solid. |
| 17:53.06 | Disconnect | it periodically decides i'm not at work anymore (gps miss? or it reads just the tower maybe.) and goes back to default. then - if i'm lucky,before a notification fires - it will get a hit and go back to 'work' |
| 17:53.11 | spikebike | locale needs a I'm at work because I can see this AP |
| 17:53.14 | Damm | I just removed it because post RC30... the vibrate has been less then reliable |
| 17:53.14 | *** join/#android lloyd_fedora (n=chatzill@86.99.16.93) |
| 17:53.19 | Damm | perhaps that's why my battery life is better. |
| 17:53.29 | Damm | RC30 mucks with the vibrater settings |
| 17:53.30 | spikebike | GPS isn't reliable inside |
| 17:53.35 | Damm | Disconnect, tower. |
| 17:53.45 | Damm | it works off of GSM Tower, GPS, and WiFi |
| 17:53.53 | *** join/#android Goosey (n=Goosey@168.215.170.99) |
| 17:53.57 | ttuttle | It does not work off WiFi. |
| 17:53.59 | spikebike | right, but only wifi in it's magic database |
| 17:54.04 | Damm | ttuttle, locale? |
| 17:54.09 | spikebike | so any of your APs aren't likely to be in it |
| 17:54.17 | ttuttle | Damm: Not sure about Locale, but there is not yet a wifi location provider. |
| 17:54.28 | Damm | amazingly my AP is excellent at home |
| 17:54.29 | Disconnect | yah i know how it works. but my point is that it keeps getting location misses and instead of assuming "i might still be @ work" it goes "ooh, defaults, crank everthing to 11!!" |
| 17:54.33 | an_dev | can anyone tell me how can i start the music application from my own application? |
| 17:54.35 | Damm | somehow it knows exactly where i'm at within 10meters |
| 17:54.45 | Damm | and I don't recall putting my Lat/Long in my AP's setup |
| 17:54.48 | ttuttle | Damm: Hmm. |
| 17:54.58 | ttuttle | Damm: Maybe it does. |
| 17:55.03 | Damm | apple airport extreme |
| 17:55.13 | Poohba | will the android take a 8gb micro card? |
| 17:55.17 | Damm | I do love apple hardware. |
| 17:55.19 | Damm | Poohba, and 32 |
| 17:55.21 | spikebike | Poohba: ya |
| 17:55.25 | spikebike | I got mine for $30 |
| 17:55.41 | Disconnect | Poohba: 8 and 16 have both been tested. long as its micro-sdhc. |
| 17:55.41 | Poohba | oh. i can get the 32... hmmm i wonder if my camera can take a 32. hmm |
| 17:55.42 | ttuttle | Poohba: Android does not accept micro cards, nor microSD cards. The T-Mobile G1 has a microSD card slot which will accept microSD or microSDHC cards. |
| 17:55.48 | Poohba | u got what for $30? |
| 17:56.04 | spikebike | 8 GB microsd for the g1 |
| 17:56.07 | ttuttle | got an 8 GB microSDHC for a little over $30. Works great. |
| 17:56.13 | Disconnect | ttuttle: ...wtf? "nor microSD cards" "..will accept microSD ..cards" |
| 17:56.22 | Poohba | oh. i see 8gb on Amazon for $16 |
| 17:56.31 | spikebike | type-6 |
| 17:56.42 | Disconnect | i have a knock-off non-sdhc 4g i got off woot a long time ago, pulled it from my e90 and it works fine |
| 17:57.03 | Damm | type-6 should be fast afaik |
| 17:57.06 | Damm | i forget the actual speeds |
| 17:57.18 | Damm | that's one thing I like about SDHC... they give it types, instead of 1x, 2x, 150x, etc |
| 17:57.32 | ttuttle | Damm: /me is reminding folks that Android != the G1. |
| 17:57.40 | Disconnect | Damm: it'd be even better if you had to pass some sort of 3rd party certification before labelling it by type... |
| 17:57.46 | ttuttle | Damm: The emulator, for example, cannot read microSD cards unless the host has a microSD card slot :P |
| 17:57.56 | Damm | ttuttle, rofl. |
| 17:58.05 | Disconnect | ttuttle: ah. but that was me not Damm. |
| 17:58.07 | umdk1d3 | hmmim using an 8gb class-4 just fine |
| 17:58.24 | ttuttle | umdk1d3: What brand? (I have Transcend.) |
| 17:58.37 | umdk1d3 | patriot, got it at frys |
| 17:58.40 | ttuttle | umdk1d3: ah |
| 17:58.50 | Damm | Disconnect, I generally buy decent brands... I have a 4gig SDHC in my Camera that's Type-6, and it proves it. |
| 17:58.58 | umdk1d3 | i havent been crazy writing to it like i thought i would |
| 17:59.01 | Damm | I can actually pump out 25 shots per minute in RAW |
| 17:59.05 | Disconnect | cool |
| 17:59.12 | umdk1d3 | mostly because the g1 hasnt replaced my main music player yet :/ |
| 17:59.29 | ttuttle | umdk1d3: /me does not have another music player, so the G1 has been sufficing. |
| 17:59.30 | jbq | Disconnect: do you honestly expect anyone to respond to your email? |
| 17:59.31 | umdk1d3 | i get horrid gsm chirping when trying to listen to it in the car |
| 17:59.34 | mikey | im trying to get this button to sit next to an edittext, but it keeps on overlaying it |
| 17:59.39 | ttuttle | umdk1d3: Oh, that's always fun :-\ |
| 17:59.40 | Damm | the "G1" will never replace my ipod |
| 17:59.47 | jbq | (in a constructive manner, that is) |
| 17:59.50 | mikey | i think the issue is the edittext is "fill parent" for width |
| 18:00.00 | mikey | any idea how i can get em both to play nicely? |
| 18:00.01 | unix_lappy | Damm: i dont think it aims to. |
| 18:00.08 | unix_lappy | though, it would've been nice to have that goal. |
| 18:00.15 | an_dev | can anyone tell me how can i start the music application from my own application???????????? |
| 18:00.17 | Damm | unix_lappy, nope it doesn't. |
| 18:00.17 | Disconnect | jbq: sure. explain how i am misguided and how i can actually work on the camera portion of the platform without having to hack (and subsequently risk bricking) my device. |
| 18:00.44 | savid | Is there a way to see what applications/processes are using CPU? My CPU usage currently reads 13% at idle |
| 18:00.55 | blau | svid: in windows? |
| 18:00.57 | unix_lappy | Damm: it's come as close as windows mobile has to replacing the iphone / ipod. |
| 18:00.58 | blau | or on the g1? |
| 18:00.58 | Damm | savid, ps |
| 18:01.17 | Damm | unix_lappy, meh... windows mobile can never replace an ipod |
| 18:01.35 | Disconnect | was gonna use it as a primary music player but the official-htc-branded charge-and-listen splitter causes the music player to crap itself every 30 seconds or so. |
| 18:01.37 | Damm | I could say something about only morons buy windows mobile and use that pathetic media player in it... |
| 18:01.42 | Damm | and it's pretty much right |
| 18:01.44 | jbq | I don't disagree with the content of the message. But the way you spread FUD about the people whose help you need isn't going to help your cause. |
| 18:01.50 | Damm | but it's mean to all the people who buy a winmo phone. |
| 18:02.02 | *** join/#android Goosey (n=Goosey@168.215.170.99) |
| 18:02.17 | Disconnect | jbq: point to fud. i'll happily respond to clarify or retract (when i get my copy, which hasn't come in yet..) |
| 18:03.17 | jbq | your last paragraph is the straw that breaks the camel's back. |
| 18:03.18 | *** join/#android `vip (n=denied@m465e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 18:04.11 | jbq | but the underlying premise that the people who contributed the initial android source code aren't part of the community is wrong all the way. |
| 18:04.55 | Damm | is it true that the android folks are a bunch of hippies who smoke weed? (j/k) |
| 18:05.26 | jbq | meth is better for productivity (j/k) |
| 18:05.43 | Damm | jbq, depends on the person... meth makes some people vomit alot |
| 18:05.56 | Damm | which it's kinda hard to code while you're hovering over the porcelin god |
| 18:06.40 | Damm | <--'s woman has a prescription for morphine and meth (the prescription stuff) |
| 18:08.45 | Disconnect | jbq: the statements by google of "the community should fix it" is drawing a clear, distinct line between "insiders" (google, etc) and the rest of us, and saying "stop bugging us and fix it yourself" |
| 18:09.15 | jbq | actually, that's not at all what they mean. |
| 18:09.19 | Disconnect | which would be fine (if somewhat annoying) if that was possible at all. |
| 18:09.21 | *** join/#android schmylan_ (n=schmylan@38.114.107.11) |
| 18:09.34 | Disconnect | (leaving out the - imho etc - disaster of releasing this thing to the masses before it was ready..) |
| 18:09.37 | joel | I tried to simulate incoming call in emulator, it rejected. http://fpaste.org/paste/183 |
| 18:10.12 | *** join/#android osmosis (n=steven@63.139.86.3) |
| 18:10.13 | *** join/#android Gumby (n=gumby@unaffiliated/gumby) |
| 18:10.22 | *** join/#android Shiny (n=brenda@209-20-76-6.slicehost.net) |
| 18:10.33 | joel | The incoming call was in call log, but it did not show up on screen. |
| 18:11.36 | jbq | I don't even think that discussing this is worth my time. It seems to me that you've put yourself in an "us vs them" situation, along with "we have them and they hate us", which isn't going to be the basis for any kind of constructive discussion. |
| 18:12.39 | Disconnect | jbq: if you can't support your position that the community -can- fix problems with android then just say so. but don't assign positions to me that I haven't taken. |
| 18:13.36 | *** join/#android androoid (n=android@12.193.57.162) |
| 18:13.38 | jbq | Changes have been accepted by the android maintainers that were contributed by people who weren't part of the initiat team. |
| 18:13.47 | blau | theres no way for the community to fix it and get a working build back on their actual devices |
| 18:14.00 | blau | without a real ota right? |
| 18:14.12 | Damm | blau, that's more of a T-Mobile issue, then a Google issue. |
| 18:14.26 | Disconnect | jbq: I gave several examples, and labeled the ones I felt were impossible. explain how i can work on any of those. (camera, for example.) |
| 18:14.26 | *** join/#android zewm (i=FatandUg@adsl-068-209-101-180.sip.mia.bellsouth.net) |
| 18:14.28 | Damm | blau, however you can put it on to the emulator... which isn't really helpful |
| 18:14.54 | jbq | blau: some OpenMoko people have Android running on their device from a fork, and we're working with them to bring their changes back into the main tree (it's tricky, because their CPU is slightly below Android's current minimum requirements) |
| 18:14.57 | Damm | the next root exploit that hits... i'm going to install my own and stop doing OTA's |
| 18:15.29 | Disconnect | camera is great because its device-specific, its broken and its been hit with the "community will fix" label. |
| 18:16.11 | jbq | If it's device-specific, it should probably have been labeled with "the device manufacturer should fix it" instead. |
| 18:16.29 | jbq | And the device manufacturer is part of the community, FWIW. |
| 18:16.30 | Gumby | On the "Set up email" page I can enter my email settings and then the app checks them and then goes to the page where I can name the account and enter my name for outgoing messages. I enter both but I can never click "Done". Is this a common thing? Has anyone seen this before? |
| 18:16.37 | spikebike | damn keep hoping, I'm dubious |
| 18:16.45 | spikebike | (that there will be a root hole) |
| 18:17.03 | Damm | Gumby, try using the manual setup. |
| 18:17.12 | Damm | spikebike, i'm sure there will be... persistance is key |
| 18:17.27 | spikebike | damm dunno there's a minimal number of binaries |
| 18:17.49 | spikebike | very few daemons, most everything runs as a user, and all apps run inside a vm |
| 18:17.53 | Damm | spikebike, stop thinking of simple stuff. |
| 18:17.55 | Disconnect | jbq: apps on sd is certainly a platform thing. i'd like to hack on that as well. |
| 18:18.01 | Gumby | Damm: ok. I think I've tried that already. The mail setup works for server etc, just not account name and outgoing message display name. I'll try again though |
| 18:18.09 | Disconnect | jbq: (starting with a simple hacker answer of loopback ext2 mounts..) |
| 18:18.19 | Damm | Gumby, the Email program kinda sucks... so i'm not terribly suprised. |
| 18:18.34 | Damm | you get more detail when the phone is not in landscape mode |
| 18:18.38 | Gumby | Damm: I am also emulating android on an htc touch so that could be part of my issue |
| 18:18.39 | Damm | however you cannot enter details that way |
| 18:18.40 | jbq | Disconnect: little of that should be hardware-specific, so the emulator should be able to support most of the development there. |
| 18:18.41 | Disconnect | Gumby: just install k-9 and save the effort :) |
| 18:19.01 | Damm | Gumby, shouldn't be that much of a deal |
| 18:19.05 | jbq | (assuming that you don't want to wait until open devices are available) |
| 18:19.06 | Gumby | Disconnect: I'll google it :) Does k-9 do push email and/or talk to exchange servers? |
| 18:19.20 | Damm | Gumby, no |
| 18:19.32 | Gumby | no and no? hehe |
| 18:19.33 | Damm | Gumby, there's an app in the market that does (i dunno if you have access to the market) |
| 18:19.38 | Damm | it's pop3 or imap |
| 18:19.39 | Disconnect | jbq: so once i submit a patch that works for me (simple loopback ext2 image) and that will work for most of the other developers/power users, how long before I can put it on my device and move on to developing a slicker/better/cleaner v2 implementation? |
| 18:19.40 | Damm | same as Email |
| 18:19.45 | Damm | K-9 is just a fork of Email |
| 18:19.50 | Gumby | ah, ok |
| 18:19.52 | pawalls | Is it impossible to get firmware unlocked devices directly from HTC? |
| 18:20.07 | spikebike | that would be nice |
| 18:20.08 | jbq | Disconnect: this is an issue of devices, which has little to do with Android. |
| 18:20.18 | *** join/#android aquarist_2006 (n=aquarist@host-208-68-238-61.biznesshosting.net) |
| 18:20.37 | *** join/#android jt436 (n=jtomlins@216.0.105.98) |
| 18:20.48 | pawalls | I can see why this would make the carriers cringe, but I can't see why HTC wouldn't support it (other than perhaps requiring bulk orders?) |
| 18:20.55 | Disconnect | jbq: so far devices and android have been lockstepped. remember the code discussion? "where is the code?" "no code until the device is shipped" "..but its a platform." "shuttup, no code until the device ships".. |
| 18:21.34 | *** join/#android zewm_ (n=tinyirc@adsl-068-209-101-180.sip.mia.bellsouth.net) |
| 18:21.35 | jbq | Disconnect: there were some very good reasons why the source code wasn't available before the first devices... and I'm not allowed to discuss those in public. |
| 18:22.26 | Disconnect | jbq: i'm not particularly asking you to, i'm just saying that google's doublethink of platform vs device is just that - doublethink. |
| 18:22.38 | jbq | No, you're misguided. |
| 18:22.58 | Disconnect | jbq: and the only parts of it that the community can fix are the exact same parts they can fix on iphone, or symbian, or palmos - the applications. (and the 'fix' is to replace them. its sure nice that we have sources for those, but..) |
| 18:23.00 | Damm | jbq, you are referring to past tense? so i'm assuming those reasons are gone now? (you don't have to elaborate) |
| 18:23.08 | DarkriftX | if code had been released before devices, we wouldnt have root :( |
| 18:23.10 | andyross | Guys, until another phone ships, you're both right (or both wrong, whatever) |
| 18:23.20 | jbq | Damm: yes, the reasons are gone (the first devices shipped) |
| 18:23.23 | DarkriftX | we would have found that, explioted it and they would have removed it before first devices shipped |
| 18:23.24 | Disconnect | Damm: the reasons are prolly still valid but since the hw has shipped its expired :) |
| 18:23.45 | jbq | Damm: the initial source drop was released within hours of the phones shipping. |
| 18:24.14 | DarkriftX | wasnt it days later? |
| 18:24.17 | blau | disconnect: can i have a google job :) |
| 18:24.18 | romainguy | no |
| 18:24.21 | Damm | DarkriftX, nope |
| 18:24.26 | jbq | DarkriftX: first devices on Oct 20, source code on Oct 21. |
| 18:24.30 | DarkriftX | ahh |
| 18:24.33 | blau | the phones shipped earlier than the 20th |
| 18:24.37 | *** join/#android PhasesEvilTwin (n=robjacks@c-68-48-9-210.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 18:24.46 | blau | if you wanna get technical :P |
| 18:24.49 | Damm | i'm just waiting for the source tree's to syncup between google and source.android.com |
| 18:24.49 | romainguy | the official release of the G1 was the 22nd |
| 18:24.53 | Damm | if that ever happens |
| 18:25.01 | romainguy | Damm: it will |
| 18:25.04 | b0nn | hi guysIm trying to get started with android, but Im having trouble with the emulator. |
| 18:25.15 | jbq | Damm: we're working hard on that right now. |
| 18:25.26 | b0nn | It seems unresponsive, I sat here for 15 minutes pressing buttons and nothing happened |
| 18:25.37 | b0nn | can sopmeone point me to a troubleshooting guide? |
| 18:25.43 | *** part/#android zewm_ (n=tinyirc@adsl-068-209-101-180.sip.mia.bellsouth.net) |
| 18:25.43 | Damm | jbq, I'm quite aware, that was not a 'nag' or anything. Just a vocal hope. |
| 18:25.50 | *** join/#android zewm_ (n=tinyirc@adsl-068-209-101-180.sip.mia.bellsouth.net) |
| 18:25.53 | blau | b0hn: i noticed the emulator performance was awful on my amd turion mk36 |
| 18:26.03 | blau | practically unusable |
| 18:26.09 | blau | whats you os and processor? |
| 18:26.18 | b0nn | oh I only have a celeron 2.2, with half a gig of ram, is that not enough? |
| 18:26.32 | Damm | wow the G1 phone almost has more RAM then you do |
| 18:26.38 | *** join/#android schmylan (n=schmylan@38.114.107.11) |
| 18:26.53 | jbq | Disconnect: you're spreading FUD again about android. With the other platforms that you mentioned, the source code isn't available (and even less licensed under a very open license) |
| 18:26.55 | blau | think the ram might be hurting |
| 18:26.56 | *** part/#android topeira (n=lucio@unaffiliated/topeira) |
| 18:26.57 | b0nn | if its a ram issue I can go get more |
| 18:27.21 | *** join/#android geewizIRCsucks (n=robjacks@c-68-48-9-210.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 18:27.37 | blau | i dont know if its that for sure, so dont hold me to it |
| 18:27.39 | Damm | b0nn, someone from google can correct me if i'm wrong, but the emulator runs ARM code... so your dealing with some emulation effects |
| 18:27.47 | romainguy | that's correct |
| 18:27.49 | Damm | your processor is taking "x86" to ARM |
| 18:27.51 | blau | the emulator starts up? |
| 18:27.57 | blau | do you get to the android desktop? |
| 18:27.58 | romainguy | the emulator does exactly that, it emulates an ARM CPU (plus other stuff) |
| 18:28.01 | Damm | and i doubt it's 1:1 ratio |
| 18:28.04 | *** join/#android jexe (n=jesseboy@static-64-115-213-78.isp.broadviewnet.net) |
| 18:28.06 | romainguy | so it will be slow on a slow computer :( |
| 18:28.09 | Damm | so it's going to be slow |
| 18:28.36 | b0nn | but nothing happened at all over a 15 minute period |
| 18:28.38 | Damm | RAM helps only so much, in this case it won't help much. |
| 18:28.45 | Disconnect | jbq: i never said the source wasn't available. in fact, I said it was great that most of the broken apps had source to start with. but that doesn't make it open. the ability to -work with- that code is missing. |
| 18:28.55 | Damm | takes about 3minutes for it to boot on My 2.3Ghz Macbook Pro |
| 18:28.57 | ali1234 | b0nn: the initial boot of the emulator takes a long time... i thought it crashed... it took about 20 minutes |
| 18:29.05 | ali1234 | but after that it was ok |
| 18:29.16 | b0nn | I have the word android, and a little alien sitting there |
| 18:29.23 | b0nn | is that not fully booted? |
| 18:29.23 | ali1234 | yeah |
| 18:29.26 | Disconnect | my point is that open source != open platform. and certainly negates the community's ability to fix things. |
| 18:29.34 | blau | bonn: let it go overnight |
| 18:29.42 | blau | some machines it takes foreverrrr to start |
| 18:29.42 | romainguy | Disconnect: what can't you fix right now? |
| 18:30.13 | Disconnect | romainguy: camera. scheduler. backup/restore application. |
| 18:30.16 | blau | we cant fix the lock screen |
| 18:30.25 | blau | whats wrong with the scheduler? |
| 18:30.26 | Disconnect | romainguy: lock screen, good one blau. |
| 18:30.32 | jbq | Disconnect: your problem is with open devices, and the fact that android as it's been released doesn't currently run on open devices. |
| 18:30.41 | romainguy | Disconnect: you have the source code for the lock screen? so why can't you fix it? |
| 18:30.47 | Disconnect | blau: when i hit home and it takes 60-90 seconds to do more tan paint the background, thats a bug :) its less frequent than it was in rc19 but.. |
| 18:30.54 | romainguy | Disconnect: camera, if it's in the proprietary code, there's not much even us can do |
| 18:31.25 | romainguy | Disconnect: backup/restore, you can also do it with the git tree |
| 18:31.37 | jbq | yup. ditto with vpn, and apps on SD. |
| 18:31.40 | romainguy | Disconnect: and that has nothing to do with the scheduler |
| 18:31.46 | Disconnect | romainguy: its not, its just broken platform implentation. (or so i've been told by @google, i haven't dug into it yet). the word i got is the app has some room for improvement (which is fine, and doable if you rename/replace it..) but the problem was mostly in the platform backend |
| 18:31.58 | b0nn | How do I tell when the emulator is ready? |
| 18:32.03 | blau | how can we put a new lock screen back on a g1, not possible at the moment right? |
| 18:32.05 | romainguy | Disconnect: then grab the platform source and fix it |
| 18:32.16 | romainguy | blau: not with the SDK |
| 18:32.25 | Disconnect | romainguy: ok. step one, lets put some timing in and see where its hanging. oops. it takes no time at all for the emulator to return it's fake picture. |
| 18:32.28 | ali1234 | b0nn: you get something resembling a gui |
| 18:32.35 | Damm | Disconnect, you cannot blame google for the "platform" being locked. You bought a Cell Phone, T-Mobile does not want you to have full reign, that's normal for Cell Phone Carriers. |
| 18:32.46 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@wg-d232064.dsl.fsu.edu) |
| 18:33.00 | Damm | if you want full control over your device, you need to buy a device that no carrier wants... (OpenMoko) |
| 18:33.20 | blau | i guess it really does boil down to the fucking platform |
| 18:33.27 | romainguy | Disconnect: sorry, didn't catch you were talking about Camera again; like I said for Camera there are things that even us cannot change |
| 18:33.30 | b0nn | I have the picture of the phone, with the word "android" and a picture of an alien on it |
| 18:33.37 | b0nn | is that fully ready? |
| 18:33.41 | ali1234 | no |
| 18:33.42 | blau | bonn: still loading, its ready to use when you see the desktop |
| 18:33.47 | Damm | b0nn, nope |
| 18:33.50 | b0nn | ohh |
| 18:33.52 | b0nn | ok |
| 18:33.53 | blau | it could be 20 minutes, id go watch a movi |
| 18:33.54 | blau | e |
| 18:33.58 | b0nn | heh |
| 18:34.01 | blau | and then never close the emulator down again |
| 18:34.12 | b0nn | as long as I know then its not so bad |
| 18:34.16 | romainguy | even if you close it the next startup should be much faster |
| 18:34.22 | *** join/#android spearce (n=spearce@nat/google/x-e712cbc2c6eec241) |
| 18:34.26 | Damm | yep |
| 18:34.27 | romainguy | (as the system won't have to dexopt the applications) |
| 18:34.29 | Damm | first time is always a pain |
| 18:34.48 | Disconnect | romainguy: sorry, gotta fire off a vm creator, brb :) |
| 18:34.57 | *** join/#android parti (n=parti@77.163.25.244) |
| 18:35.22 | *** join/#android charlesnw (n=charlesn@12.46.70.2) |
| 18:35.25 | jbq | blau: no need to swear, that won't accomplish much except getting people annoyed. Yes, the platform isn't currently perfect, and it'll improve over time. |
| 18:35.51 | b0nn | ! |
| 18:35.57 | b0nn | its telling me no service |
| 18:36.03 | b0nn | thats ready yeah :) |
| 18:36.05 | blau | its working! |
| 18:36.13 | b0nn | awesome, thanks |
| 18:36.20 | Disconnect | anyway. that may be incorrect (that the platform can fix the camera) and it even might be incorrect that the scheduler has nothing to do with the device being io-bound when drawing the home screen. BUT.. these are things the community has been told to fix. |
| 18:36.27 | pawalls | I think you guys are thrashing the wrong people. The engineers here surely aren't accountable for the G1 being a locked down device. |
| 18:36.41 | b0nn | <G> |
| 18:36.57 | blau | the solution is to hire us so we can fix things |
| 18:37.01 | Disconnect | pawalls: they are accountable for the statement that "all your problems will be fixed if you just stop bitching and start fixing them".. |
| 18:37.19 | romainguy | Disconnect: well open source goes two ways :) |
| 18:37.26 | pawalls | Disconnect, I'd imagine that's paraphrasing to a very large degree. |
| 18:37.38 | pawalls | With a fair amount of artistic license. |
| 18:37.39 | pawalls | :-P |
| 18:37.41 | jbq | Disconnect: do you consider the android engineers who wrote the initial android code part of "the community"? |
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| 18:38.42 | Disconnect | romainguy: like i said.. camera app. show me how to fix. or (to pick off my list) wifi problems. 2-minute timeout instead of going to 802.11b powersave mode, etc. |
| 18:39.01 | romainguy | Disconnect: I just told you *twice* that you might be right about Camera |
| 18:39.10 | romainguy | you can keep bitching all you want about it, that won't change a thing |
| 18:39.21 | Disconnect | jbq: depends. some animals are more equal than others. do they go through the same process that, say, i do to submit patches? |
| 18:39.29 | romainguy | Disconnect: yes |
| 18:39.31 | jbq | Disconnect: yup. |
| 18:40.01 | Disconnect | so where is the public submission of the root console fix? or (better, since its not all security..) the patches between rc18 and rc28? |
| 18:40.26 | Disconnect | cuz maybe i'm on the wrong lists but i didn't see those patches submitted for review or anything. |
| 18:40.27 | romainguy | like we said several times, the external git tree is not yet in sync with our internal tree |
| 18:40.33 | jbq | Actually, what was open-sourced was beyond rc28 already, and we won't be able to publish a back-history. |
| 18:40.34 | romainguy | because we are moving the entire project from perforce to git |
| 18:40.38 | romainguy | and it takes a lot of time and efforts |
| 18:40.48 | romainguy | we have teams that work very hard every day to do exactly that |
| 18:40.50 | pawalls | Disconnect, I'd like to point out that the root console fix doesn't even technically need to be released since the relevant code is Apache licensed :-P |
| 18:40.54 | Disconnect | romainguy: i didn't ask for it in the tree, i accept that hte tree is outdated and will be fixed someday. thats fine.. |
| 18:41.03 | romainguy | and like jbq said, the open source code is beyond rc28 anyway :)) |
| 18:41.14 | Disconnect | pawalls: absolutely. but if you go down that road it -really- makes "open source" into doublethink. |
| 18:41.43 | jbq | Another aspect to keep in mind is that the notion of RC19 or RC28 is specific to the US G1, it's not an android thing. |
| 18:42.26 | pawalls | Disconnect, It's entirely possible that the carrier (tmobile) pushed the fix out on their own and never intend to give those changes back to the community. |
| 18:42.31 | Damm | jbq, that seems to be the real disconnect with disconnect... he is taking the G1, as Android... and as the issue. |
| 18:43.13 | Disconnect | there are patches to a ton of other apps that are not security-related (or at least, haven't been admitted to be security) in rc30. where did those patches get submitted for public review? (again, i know the repo is outdated, but if internal devs go through the same hoops as external ones then there is gonna be a public list somewhere where these things happen, right?) |
| 18:43.28 | pawalls | Disconnect, You can't blame Google engineers for such things. The engineers are doing what they can to create a good open source project w/ Android.. if the carriers don't want to cooperate, there's nothing Google can do about it. |
| 18:43.50 | blau | google should have mad a google license! |
| 18:43.57 | Disconnect | blau: ugh |
| 18:44.08 | *** join/#android trigatch4 (n=robjacks@c-68-48-9-210.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 18:44.09 | Damm | pawalls, exactly |
| 18:44.29 | jbq | Disconnect: like we said, we're working on getting the latest android source in the open such that everything can happen in the open. |
| 18:44.50 | pawalls | My hope is that eventually all carriers will have Android powered phones, and if there is really consumer demand for a fully open handset, one will surface. |
| 18:45.19 | Damm | pawalls, my hope is that carriers will stop working in a Communist way and start toking up and being hippie like. |
| 18:45.28 | geist | jbq, always the diplomat |
| 18:45.42 | jbq | geist: shut up! ;-) |
| 18:46.09 | Disconnect | jbq: so the answer is really that -some day- (sooner, later, whatever, i'm not going there. could be '5pm today' even) internal developers will do the same thing as external, btu -right now- they do not.. yes? |
| 18:46.09 | jbq | smiles at his former housemate. |
| 18:46.55 | jbq | Disconnect: that's currently correct, for a very small period of time. |
| 18:46.57 | *** join/#android geewizIRCsucks (n=robjacks@c-68-48-9-210.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 18:46.57 | geist | Disconnect: are you implying that internal developers have to submit code and have external ones review it before it's accepted? |
| 18:47.07 | geist | if that's what you're getting out, i seriously doubt it |
| 18:47.43 | jbq | there's not even a clear notion of internal vs external. |
| 18:47.47 | Damm | nah the internal google tree is just not the same as the external. |
| 18:48.01 | Damm | you can't write crap code and commit it and have it go unnoticed |
| 18:48.40 | Disconnect | geist: if i submit to android, i do it in a public forum and public members can comment. repo 'owners'/gatekeeps will obviously (just for now? dunno) be google employees, but they'd be expected to be fair. if a google employee submits to android, right now, they do it in private and it might show up in one of the rc's or in a repo sync (not bitching that repo syncs are intermittant, thats fine, etc) |
| 18:49.39 | geist | uh huh |
| 18:49.42 | geist | and? |
| 18:50.03 | jbq | the approvers don't have to be googlers - they'll be whoever demonstrates understanding of the system they maintain and quality code. Sure, googlers have a head starts. |
| 18:50.39 | pawalls | Disconnect, I think discussing RC releases as part of a discussion of the Android open source community is pointless. |
| 18:50.45 | geist | come on jbq, stop trying to be so diplomatic. Of course google folks have a lot more leeway, that's how it is. they wrote the code. |
| 18:50.51 | geist | so what? |
| 18:51.05 | geist | to expect anything else is ridiculous |
| 18:51.11 | Disconnect | that throws a big wrench in the "every submitter is equal, internal to google or external" line because it is not possible for an external developer to participate on even footing with internal devs. they get the (admittedly dubious :) ..) advantage of avoiding public scrutiny of their patches and they get to shortcut the process. (they also get to test their code on actual devices, which was my earlier point.) |
| 18:51.14 | pawalls | Disconnect, The RC releases will inevitably be different than whatever is in git head at any time, and it's possible that some things won't even make it back into the public git repo. |
| 18:51.18 | jbq | geist: actually, we didn't write all the code, and there are some modules where approvers won't be googlers right away. |
| 18:51.54 | geist | sure, but the stuff you didn't write is presumably the closed source blobs that deal with the hardware |
| 18:51.57 | Disconnect | jbq: to be clear, i was trying to indicate that googlers wouldn't be the only gatekeepers, and that i expected they'd be fair. |
| 18:52.25 | jbq | yup. |
| 18:52.38 | pawalls | Disconnect, So how do you recommend the device problem be solved? |
| 18:52.42 | Disconnect | and at first it wouldn't be at all surprising if they -were- the only gatekeepers. cuz they have The Power :) |
| 18:52.50 | jbq | geist: actually, big blobs like the speech recognition engine or the media core came from the outside. |
| 18:52.58 | geist | ah that. yeah |
| 18:53.01 | pawalls | Disconnect, The source is open so you can test out things like lock screen on other devices if you port the platform. |
| 18:53.04 | jbq | (not counting all the open-source projects that were incorporated, of course) |
| 18:53.22 | pawalls | Disconnect, You can petition T-Mobile or HTC to get firmware unlocked Dream devices. |
| 18:53.24 | geist | media core, i definitely understand. grmbl |
| 18:53.37 | Damm | pawalls, haha good luck on that. |
| 18:53.41 | pawalls | But I don't know that bitching at Android developers is going to really get you anywhere. |
| 18:53.59 | Damm | it's not HTC it's really T-mobile. |
| 18:54.14 | Damm | but at the same time, this is the most open device that has been commercially sold in the US |
| 18:54.27 | Damm | so you should praise T-Mobile for doing it, and Google for making it happen |
| 18:54.41 | *** join/#android porter1 (n=cameron@156.26.172.20) |
| 18:54.46 | pawalls | Indeed. It's a step in the right direction. Revolutions don't happen over night ;-) |
| 18:54.47 | geist | probably maks him feel better. And the google devs can just go to the cafeteria and get a latte, or a massage |
| 18:54.55 | *** join/#android Dipen (n=LENOVO@host-208-68-238-61.biznesshosting.net) |
| 18:55.12 | Disconnect | damm: until we can modify the platform, the device is no more or less open than the iphone. it has more application source behind it, but thats all.. |
| 18:55.22 | *** join/#android romainguy_ (n=gfx@adsl-75-55-215-117.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:55.52 | Cedric2 | Disconnect: why don't you get an iPhone and go yell at the Apple engineers on #iphone-dev? :) |
| 18:56.09 | Disconnect | and if you seriously want to put the devs on an even footing internal and external, reflash all their g1s with retail firmware. otherwise there will -always- be an advantage to teh devs who can test on real hardware. |
| 18:56.42 | pawalls | Disconnect, One could argue that being able to install applications from 3rd parties without jailbreaking makes the G1 slightly more open than the iPhone. |
| 18:57.01 | Disconnect | but the same as symbian. |
| 18:57.23 | jbailey | Disconnect: So here's the trick. The device isn't open, the platform is. |
| 18:57.28 | Damm | Disconnect, it is more open then the iphone, as you can write your own applications for it, test it, hand it out without having apple slap you. |
| 18:57.42 | Disconnect | i believe the iphone still lets you do imei-based development installations as well (so app devs can sign it with 'n' number of imeis and install on those phones. yes, that is not as open as android, but its still more open than people claim) |
| 18:57.43 | jbailey | The telco industry sucks a bit that way. But at least now there's one less problem to oslve. |
| 18:57.45 | pawalls | Disconnect, You're being very nearsighted. Having the platform be open will be a big win, you're just not looking at the big picture. |
| 18:57.49 | Disconnect | Damm: actually, see above :) |
| 18:57.58 | Damm | Even as is, the G1 is much more open then iPhone ever will be. |
| 18:58.18 | Disconnect | sure. and that puts it exactly smack dab where symbian, palm and wm are... |
| 18:58.24 | jasta | pawalls: sup |
| 18:58.38 | *** join/#android spearce (n=spearce@nat/google/x-67671db812bd6e20) |
| 18:58.45 | Damm | not really, you have all the code for Android, you can re-write Settings, or whatever you want and install it on your G1 and wham |
| 18:58.46 | Disconnect | only without the ability to do backups :) |
| 18:59.05 | romainguy | Disconnect: grab the tree, start working on a back feature, submit it :p |
| 18:59.06 | Damm | you can change quite alot on the G1, you just don't have root (wah) |
| 18:59.47 | Damm | declares romainguy our Gestapo agent prodding us to stop bitching and work harder/faster/more. |
| 18:59.57 | Disconnect | Damm: thats applications. so sure, its nice that there is application source code out there, but the "open platform" is not open. (unless someone reasonably expects a carrier to release a reflashable phone? .. right. and besides, thats a can of worms google would probably liek to avoid, since it opens up fork-hell) |
| 19:00.09 | jbq | Disconnect: when we buy G1s from T-Mobile, we can't flash them either. It's a pain for us too. We're limited to what we can get from HTC. |
| 19:00.19 | Damm | romainguy, and don't take that the wrong way. |
| 19:00.25 | romainguy | Damm: I don't :) |
| 19:00.39 | romainguy | Damm: like I said, it's two ways; pushing Android out was a huge effort (not just technical but also to convince carriers, manufacturers, etc.) |
| 19:00.56 | blau | hey if i work for google doing something on android can iget a reflashable phone? |
| 19:00.59 | Disconnect | jbq: "when we buy from tmobile" sure.. but you can't tell me that most of the devs aren't running engineering units. |
| 19:01.01 | pawalls | jasta, what's up pimp? |
| 19:01.03 | romainguy | Damm: and I find it a bit... surprising to see people who keep asking for more without contributing back |
| 19:01.11 | andyross | jbq: So can we take that to mean that there's no hardware access from the cpu environment that allows reflashing the first stage bootloader at all? A write-only mapping or somesuch? |
| 19:01.21 | romainguy | Damm: yes there are shotcomings to Android, we know, and we want things to get better |
| 19:01.32 | Damm | romainguy, don't be suprised. It's actually quite common if you ask me. |
| 19:01.38 | Damm | It's more frustrating |
| 19:01.38 | SanMehat | romainguy: i'm not surprised |
| 19:01.45 | romainguy | Damm: yes frustrating is the right word |
| 19:01.47 | jbq | Disconnect: correct, google has a few units directly from HTC that we can flash. |
| 19:01.56 | *** join/#android cmonex (n=xy6091@zbkz84n00k.adsl.datanet.hu) |
| 19:02.10 | jbq | andyross: actually, recovery can flash the bootloader. |
| 19:02.32 | andyross | So at least in principle, you *could* recover phones from T-Mobile then. |
| 19:02.41 | romainguy | Damm: and for what it's worth a very large amount of work we did/do happened/happens on the emulator :) |
| 19:02.44 | Disconnect | jbq: i'm dubious but i'll take your word for it. maybe its just that there is a higher than average number of them hanging out here :/ |
| 19:02.55 | romainguy | I mentioned this example already, but the touch UI was mostly implemented without physical devices :)) |
| 19:02.59 | jbq | andyross: except that we don't have the keys. |
| 19:03.26 | Damm | romainguy, I gathered that much. However, I'm quite impressed, and it's still quite open to me, to let the users/developers hack/fix do whatever they want. |
| 19:03.43 | Damm | Just because you can't flash your own phone, wah. |
| 19:03.45 | Disconnect | jbq: isn't recovery what jf hacked up to use test keys? so.. |
| 19:03.52 | romainguy | well AT&T said ANdroid is not open enough for them ^^ |
| 19:03.54 | andyross | Not sure I'm following. If you have hardware access, you don't need keys. Keys would be interpreted by software, that you can reflash. Are you saying that you could reflash the bootloader using code inside the bootloader? |
| 19:04.03 | DarkriftX | wow, we got the full google group going now |
| 19:04.20 | blau | google is gonna smack us |
| 19:04.21 | geist | andyross: you'd think, but the msm chip is more locked down that that |
| 19:04.33 | geist | the a11 actually can't write to the flash that the primary bootloader lives on |
| 19:04.37 | geist | since that's the radio's flash |
| 19:04.44 | DarkriftX | blau im sure they want to smack us or tmobile |
| 19:04.48 | geist | er at least the section of flash that it lives on (it's different on 7225) |
| 19:04.52 | blau | shouldnt this talk be in android dev maybe? |
| 19:04.53 | Damm | geist, that's interesting... but makes sense. |
| 19:04.58 | blau | which i just realised existed |
| 19:04.59 | blau | lol |
| 19:05.10 | geist | there's a hardware interlock that prevents you from accessing certain sectors |
| 19:05.10 | andyross | geist: Thanks, that was my suspicion too. But jbq's statement that the bootloader could be reflashed game me a brief moment of hope :) |
| 19:05.10 | SanMehat | blau: #android-dev is for code discussion :) |
| 19:05.17 | jbq | andyross: sorry, I meant, on a non-rooted G1, we (google) can't reflash a different bootloader, because we don't have the keys to sign an OTA package that would contain a new bootloader. |
| 19:05.31 | *** join/#android romainguy__ (n=gfx@72.14.224.1) |
| 19:05.54 | Damm | and that answers another question I had completely :) |
| 19:06.12 | Damm | that's what I love about jbq... he gives answers if you read between the lines.... very good answers |
| 19:07.00 | andyross | FWIW, no one in their right mind would give the development group the production keys anyway. No doubt any TMO engineers working on the G1 would be in the same boat. |
| 19:07.34 | geist | yeah, somewhere jbq learned tact and how to communicate clearly |
| 19:07.38 | Disconnect | andyross: yah. it looks like htc actually holds the keys, or at least they generated them. |
| 19:07.42 | Damm | andyross, i've been quite impressed in how the OTA keys are handled. Quite elegant. |
| 19:07.48 | *** join/#android blau2 (i=4425eca3@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e8494f73139c6b58) |
| 19:07.49 | *** join/#android vinse (n=vinse_@208.253.223.146) |
| 19:07.54 | blau2 | cool beans |
| 19:07.56 | blau2 | ajax irc |
| 19:08.14 | blau | s |
| 19:08.20 | pawalls | Disconnect, It seems more likely that TMobile would have the OTA keys. |
| 19:08.32 | jbq | geist: yeah, I grew up from being a young idiot to being an old one. |
| 19:09.01 | cmonex | [20:02:10] <jbq> andyross: actually, recovery can flash the bootloader. |
| 19:09.05 | blau | the spinner needs to have automatic filtering imo |
| 19:09.07 | cmonex | without passing the task to bootloader itself? |
| 19:09.12 | andyross | blau2: Mibbit is pretty cool (although I find I still prefer pidgin). The developer (axod) is active in the #startups channel if you have questions. |
| 19:09.13 | *** join/#android blau3mib_ao128b (i=d0365e5b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-0baec4759e5402b6) |
| 19:10.07 | jbq | cmonex: I don't know the exact details. I know that an extra reboot is needed. It might be that recovery puts the new bootloader in a shared place, and reboots to make the old bootloader flash the new one. |
| 19:10.10 | blau | damn mibbit doesnt seem to work on g1 browser :( |
| 19:10.20 | DarkriftX | blau, yes it does |
| 19:10.22 | cmonex | [20:03:55] <andyross> Not sure I'm following. If you have hardware access, you don't need keys. Keys would be interpreted by software, that you can reflash. Are you saying that you could reflash the bootloader using code inside the bootloader? -> obviously the bootloader has flashing ability. now question why is this not made public / images release for it... who was the google guy who promised to ask about this? :) |
| 19:10.26 | geist | jbq: yeah, i think the a9 does the flashing |
| 19:10.29 | `vip | hey romainguy, you about ? |
| 19:10.32 | geist | so you have to reboot to get it to do the work |
| 19:10.38 | blau | dark: i just got disconnected as soon as i joined |
| 19:10.41 | cmonex | geist: the a9 flashes radio |
| 19:10.47 | geist | radio boots a11 |
| 19:10.48 | cmonex | but it doesnt have to flash the arm11 bootloader too |
| 19:10.50 | *** join/#android mib_ax8v0o (i=4468a1e0@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-2da76dab02864ca8) |
| 19:11.00 | DarkriftX | blau, http://android-dls.com/android-freenode-chat.html |
| 19:11.00 | cmonex | i assume the arm11 bootloader can flash itself |
| 19:11.12 | geist | cmonex: that's not a good assumption with msm cpus |
| 19:11.14 | andyross | And now we've come full circle to my deep desire for MSM7k docs. :) |
| 19:11.18 | cmonex | geist |
| 19:11.18 | geist | they're extremel radio centric |
| 19:11.22 | DarkriftX | blau, ive had ppl test that page on the g1 and it works for them |
| 19:11.24 | cmonex | the msm cpu's i've met so far were like this :) |
| 19:11.29 | cmonex | the devices made by HTC |
| 19:11.30 | geist | it depends on how to lay it out |
| 19:11.45 | geist | they may have it so that the radio boots stage1, which then loads stage2 (outside of the radio partition) |
| 19:11.47 | cmonex | arm9 protects the nand up to appsbl partition |
| 19:11.55 | cmonex | then appsbl (bootloader) is accessible by arm11 |
| 19:12.03 | cmonex | this is how htc always did it on other msm devices :) |
| 19:12.04 | geist | ah, okay |
| 19:12.12 | mattgyver83 | What does holding the trackball and power button do it turns on a blue light? |
| 19:12.13 | geist | my experience is with the 7225 |
| 19:12.16 | cmonex | of course I don't know the G1, so just assumption |
| 19:12.19 | geist | which has a seperate, distinct flash for the radio |
| 19:12.23 | geist | so there's no place for the a11 to touch |
| 19:12.36 | andyross | mattgyver83: As far as anyone has been able to tell, that mode enables power to the blue LED. :) |
| 19:12.41 | geist | ergo the entire appsbl has to live in radio land |
| 19:12.42 | cmonex | separate? hmm, on 7201/7500 they share the same nand, |
| 19:12.45 | mattgyver83 | awesome |
| 19:12.47 | cmonex | but arm9 part is protected |
| 19:12.47 | geist | 7225 is different |
| 19:12.50 | *** join/#android blaug1 (i=d0365e1b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1004a4292c29b182) |
| 19:12.50 | cmonex | ah |
| 19:13.04 | cmonex | btw geist - i missed the start of this discussion |
| 19:13.07 | cmonex | what is it really about? =) |
| 19:13.23 | geist | well, actually 7225 isn't that different. just the one i've been using we laid it out differently |
| 19:13.30 | blaug1 | hi im on g1 i rule! |
| 19:13.32 | geist | slc nand for radio + mlc nand for a11 |
| 19:13.39 | Disconnect | cmonex: strangely enough, it started about how the platform is closed-with-source-available :) |
| 19:13.39 | geist | so we gave the entire slc nand to the radio |
| 19:13.39 | cmonex | oh |
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| 19:13.47 | cmonex | but the radio makes it show up it is the same chip? |
| 19:13.48 | geist | but the 7225 has a shared sdram bank |
| 19:13.57 | cmonex | I've seen the partition table in radio.img |
| 19:13.59 | DarkriftX | lol blaug1 |
| 19:13.59 | geist | that's the primary difference |
| 19:14.14 | geist | cmonex: no, we (the a11) just completely ignore the radionand |
| 19:14.19 | blau | lol |
| 19:14.21 | geist | the a9 completely owns it |
| 19:14.23 | cmonex | geist |
| 19:14.29 | cmonex | have you seen the actual partition file for the g1 radio? |
| 19:14.37 | cmonex | i'm trying to explain what i mean |
| 19:14.47 | geist | nope.I assume they start their stuff after the radio bits |
| 19:14.47 | jbq | Woohoo, the changes I submitted for review yesterday (yes, internally, in the old system) got approved! |
| 19:14.47 | blaug1 | cant we all just get along |
| 19:15.29 | cmonex | geist: yep. but it all looks like it's still one chip. i believe you if you say it isn't. just funny how the partition table is still the same as on 7201 |
| 19:15.29 | geist | cmonex: also keep in mind when i say 'we' I dont work for android |
| 19:15.29 | geist | it's a different we |
| 19:15.29 | cmonex | oh i thought you did.. who do you work for, htc? :)) |
| 19:15.31 | cmonex | btw see my line above, hope it makes sense? |
| 19:15.33 | geist | hah, no |
| 19:15.44 | geist | the hint is that i work about 2 miles from google |
| 19:15.56 | blau | youre a contractor? |
| 19:15.59 | *** join/#android incandenza (n=incanden@12.44.147.155) |
| 19:16.05 | geist | no no, i dont work for or with android at all |
| 19:16.09 | andyross | Yeah, that really narrows down the list of potential wireless companies, it does. :) |
| 19:16.12 | geist | i just follow it, since my homies are all at android |
| 19:16.25 | DarkriftX | geist, you the palm guy? |
| 19:16.26 | andyross | Someone in silicon valley is using MSM7k parts? Do tell. |
| 19:16.35 | cmonex | i'm not familiar with the place where google is so that tells me nothing :) |
| 19:16.38 | geist | lots of people are using this thing |
| 19:16.43 | geist | DarkriftX: uhhh |
| 19:16.54 | andyross | Guys, if he wanted to say, he would have. |
| 19:17.02 | DarkriftX | if he didnt, he wouldnt hint |
| 19:17.02 | geist | no i work at palm |
| 19:17.15 | DarkriftX | pays attention |
| 19:17.21 | cmonex | really palm? |
| 19:17.32 | cmonex | btw i think i saw you before geist, on some arm channel |
| 19:17.35 | cmonex | ah yes on beagle =P |
| 19:17.45 | geist | yeah, the beagleboard group overflows here |
| 19:18.03 | blau | palm rules! |
| 19:18.06 | geist | i have to remind myself sometimes which channel i'm on, so i quit talking about omap3 |
| 19:18.17 | cmonex | :) |
| 19:18.36 | *** join/#android ismarc (n=mbrace@dhcp-216-12-248-83.aus0.tx.us.corp.wayport.net) |
| 19:18.38 | zewm_ | geist: same here, cept about fat girls and strippers :\ |
| 19:18.48 | cmonex | geist: so if you are not with google or htc, how are you sure the 7225 has two separate flash like that? |
| 19:18.50 | spikebike | treo pro is msm7k |
| 19:18.52 | cmonex | just curious |
| 19:19.04 | geist | yep, we have msm7k products as well |
| 19:19.20 | cmonex | hmm, my htc diamond also has 2 flash |
| 19:19.26 | geist | a lot of companies use it. it's the only thing that cheap that does gsm + cdma + single chip |
| 19:19.28 | cmonex | still the arm11 bootloader on it flashes itself :) |
| 19:19.40 | cmonex | because the 2nd flash is just storage for the WM OS :) |
| 19:20.05 | geist | heaven forbid palm actually work on something new |
| 19:20.18 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 19:20.23 | DarkriftX | damned palm |
| 19:20.30 | geist | anyway |
| 19:20.33 | DarkriftX | the palmdroid |
| 19:20.49 | Disconnect | geist: they used to. ever look at palmos development? <shudder> it was 'new' all right.. |
| 19:20.58 | geist | yeah, that's a real piece of shit |
| 19:21.12 | geist | it's even better once you get all the internal dirt about why this or that decision was made |
| 19:21.20 | *** join/#android tauno_ (n=tauntz@118.192.50.195.sta.estpak.ee) |
| 19:21.20 | Disconnect | heh |
| 19:21.29 | pawalls | FYI, I actually got a pretty reasonable response from HTC. As I suspected, they have an exclusive agreement to only sell handsets to T-Mobile. No firmware unlocked phones from them in other words ;-) |
| 19:21.30 | geist | and then all the leftover palm people still hate the Be people that 'came in and messed it all up' |
| 19:21.33 | geist | which is kind of funny |
| 19:21.37 | cmonex | i dont think it is easy to understand palm ?? :) |
| 19:22.15 | Damm | pawalls, well T-Mobile has a vested interest to not unlock the firmware also. |
| 19:22.21 | Disconnect | i wanted to [get paid to] learn palm dev way back when. so we ported a middleware interface over. (we had a small palm division, so..) i quickly gave that up as a bad job adn just wrote the server side, let the palm guys deal with that disaster :) |
| 19:22.23 | Damm | T-Mobile's 3G network is a bit rickity right now |
| 19:22.36 | Damm | and until they get it stabalized they're trying to keep you from punishing the towers |
| 19:22.53 | geist | hah, they were saying that 6 years ago when we shipped the sidekick |
| 19:23.04 | geist | OMG DONT USE THE NETWORK ITLL FALL OVER |
| 19:23.15 | Damm | geist, sadly that's about true. |
| 19:23.24 | Damm | somedays I think T-Mobile's network is put together with duck tape |
| 19:24.18 | *** join/#android Yeggstry (n=mind@cpc1-rdng14-0-0-cust946.winn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 19:24.40 | DarkriftX | wonders whats wrong with duct tape |
| 19:24.49 | DarkriftX | i think duct tape might make their network more reliable |
| 19:25.05 | cmonex | hmmû |
| 19:25.16 | cmonex | hungarian tmobile network seems fine here. |
| 19:25.18 | *** join/#android blaug1 (i=d0365e1b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e59bf01ad6c9bf9c) |
| 19:25.19 | geist | yeah, i think they just use scotch tape |
| 19:25.27 | *** join/#android schmylan_ (n=schmylan@38.114.107.1) |
| 19:25.28 | geist | tmobile US == voicestream |
| 19:25.30 | pawalls | Damm, I think you could punish their data network without having a firmware unlocked handset. Which is why they have the ToS saying they will bandwidth limit you over the monthly cap. |
| 19:25.31 | cmonex | btw as for sim unlock |
| 19:25.34 | geist | they were a little guy a few years back |
| 19:25.45 | cmonex | friend got a g1 that came from tmobile UK |
| 19:25.48 | geist | still never completely grew up, i think they're a distant 4th or so as far as size |
| 19:25.56 | cmonex | worked with tmobile HU sim, not with others :) |
| 19:26.37 | geist | since they're the underdog they tend to take more risks though, and ship stuff like the sidekick or G1 |
| 19:26.40 | geist | so it's all good |
| 19:26.43 | *** join/#android unix_lappy (i=614133e2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4bfa682a74b3bee0) |
| 19:26.49 | blau | sidekick rules! |
| 19:26.55 | geist | it does indeed... |
| 19:27.03 | blau | g1 is like sidekick ++ |
| 19:27.50 | geist | not surprising |
| 19:27.58 | geist | since a good portion of danger folks went to android |
| 19:28.07 | unix_lappy | wondering if 2 weeks worth of waiting is worth saving 33 bucks :-) |
| 19:28.19 | ttuttle | unix_lappy: yes, it is |
| 19:28.36 | unix_lappy | ttuttle: re walmart on black friday ;-) |
| 19:28.42 | ttuttle | unix_lappy: Oh, *totally* wait. |
| 19:28.44 | ttuttle | unix_lappy: And buy a few. |
| 19:28.52 | unix_lappy | ttuttle: heh, only need one. |
| 19:28.55 | unix_lappy | if that. |
| 19:28.57 | ttuttle | unix_lappy: resell them |
| 19:29.17 | unix_lappy | ttuttle: would require multiple contracts :-P |
| 19:29.17 | *** join/#android mmarker (i=d0365e26@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-9388e309fe306a78) |
| 19:29.24 | Damm | pawalls, quite. |
| 19:29.43 | unix_lappy | and T-Mobile 3rd party resellers make about 200 dollars for each sale. |
| 19:30.58 | *** join/#android jexe (n=jesseboy@static-64-115-213-78.isp.broadviewnet.net) |
| 19:33.56 | *** join/#android g1er (n=chatzill@c-67-161-176-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 19:33.58 | *** join/#android blaug1 (i=d0365e5b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8fd4e082e4005868) |
| 19:34.07 | Gary|tp | my g1 wants to update >.< |
| 19:34.19 | Gary|tp | anyone know how long before it auto updates |
| 19:34.26 | blau | it doesnt i dont think |
| 19:34.31 | Disconnect | blau: it does |
| 19:34.35 | Cedric2 | Gary|tp: if you let it update, all your wildest dreams will come true |
| 19:34.52 | *** join/#android mmarker (n=mmarker@m665e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 19:34.53 | dd94300 | Emulator does not display vibrate icon on status bar.........?? G1 does |
| 19:34.58 | geist | you can do anything with the update |
| 19:35.12 | geist | your imagination is the only limit, with the update |
| 19:35.16 | g1er | ya dd94300 |
| 19:35.56 | Ramblurr | is there a way to detect if this instance of onCreate() is the result of a screen orientation switch |
| 19:36.25 | Ramblurr | e.g. getInent.getExtra("isorientationswitch") == "true" |
| 19:36.25 | romainguy__ | if the Bundle is != null, it may be an orientation switch |
| 19:36.29 | dd94300 | g1er: do you know the reason? |
| 19:37.02 | g1er | no clue :/ sry |
| 19:37.03 | Ramblurr | romainguy__: that wont work in my case because im passing something in the bundle |
| 19:37.44 | romainguy__ | Ramblurr: you are calling onCreate() manually? |
| 19:38.02 | Ramblurr | romainguy: no, but in another activity i am creating this one, and passing some extras |
| 19:38.18 | romainguy__ | but the extras go in the Intent |
| 19:38.28 | romainguy__ | no in the onCreate(Bundle state) |
| 19:38.31 | romainguy__ | not |
| 19:38.33 | Ramblurr | oh hm you're right, i confused the bundle and extras |
| 19:39.01 | Ramblurr | you said "may be an oirientation switch" when would the Bundle != null and it not be an orientation switch? |
| 19:39.22 | romainguy__ | your activity was in the background and the system needed resources |
| 19:39.25 | romainguy__ | so it got killed |
| 19:39.28 | *** join/#android Terdhex (n=fes004@host-208-68-238-61.biznesshosting.net) |
| 19:39.29 | romainguy__ | but you go back to it |
| 19:39.34 | romainguy__ | it's restored with a Bundle != null |
| 19:39.55 | Ramblurr | ah |
| 19:40.11 | *** join/#android snadge (n=snadge@starbug.ugh.net.au) |
| 19:40.13 | Ramblurr | ok |
| 19:40.51 | `vip | hey romainguy__ was it you that reccomended a java book the other day ? |
| 19:41.06 | romainguy__ | I have no idea :) |
| 19:41.12 | blau | Core Java? |
| 19:41.19 | `vip | no, wasnt it |
| 19:41.23 | `vip | :l |
| 19:41.25 | romainguy__ | Thinking in Java? |
| 19:41.36 | `vip | it was either romainguy or michaelnovakjr__ |
| 19:41.37 | `vip | :l |
| 19:41.41 | michaelnovakjr | Effective Java? |
| 19:41.45 | `vip | i wrote it down and damnit i lost the paper |
| 19:41.50 | `vip | yeah! |
| 19:41.53 | `vip | many thanks |
| 19:41.54 | `vip | :P |
| 19:42.21 | cmonex | Chainfire are you available now? |
| 19:42.32 | blau | anyone wanna help me come up with a database structure for storing scheduled expenses in my expense tracking program? |
| 19:43.10 | Disconnect | headfirst java |
| 19:43.10 | Chainfire | sup cmonex |
| 19:43.21 | Chainfire | i gotta run to the store but ill be back in 20 mins or so |
| 19:43.32 | Chainfire | just PM me |
| 19:43.39 | cmonex | ahh ok |
| 19:44.06 | cmonex | PM sent :) |
| 19:45.02 | cmonex | :( |
| 19:45.03 | cmonex | mlc |
| 19:45.05 | cmonex | er |
| 19:45.13 | cmonex | stupid keyboard-- |
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| 19:45.38 | *** part/#android Dipen (n=LENOVO@host-208-68-238-61.biznesshosting.net) |
| 19:48.27 | *** join/#android DarkriftX (n=AAQWR1@ip68-104-161-224.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 19:48.35 | blau | how do i change the date in the emulator? |
| 19:49.22 | Damm | i'd be willing to bet there's lots of things that romainguy__ doesn't even remember an hour ago. |
| 19:49.46 | cmonex | damm yes? |
| 19:49.51 | romainguy__ | Damm: I don't even remember what I said 3 seconds ago |
| 19:50.08 | Damm | cmonex, no? |
| 19:50.18 | Damm | romainguy__, excellent. |
| 19:50.18 | cmonex | lol. |
| 19:50.33 | michaelnovakjr | romainguy__, so you're officially done with your iPhone? |
| 19:50.42 | romainguy__ | it's been a couple of months already |
| 19:50.49 | romainguy__ | it's gathering dust in its box |
| 19:50.56 | blau | my iphone has been gathering dust too! |
| 19:51.01 | michaelnovakjr | mine too |
| 19:51.17 | Gumby | so... this may sound like a stupid question but where can I download the google mail app from? I see the app info at google.co.uk/mobile/android/mail/index.html but I dont see anywhere to actually download the app |
| 19:51.29 | jbq | my wife doesn't want to trade he iphone for a G1 :( |
| 19:51.58 | *** join/#android buffet (n=buffet@89.222.150.19) |
| 19:52.17 | michaelnovakjr | Gumby, source.android.com |
| 19:52.18 | Cedric2 | jbq: What if... "something" happened to her iPhone? I don't know, like it fell into the tub or something |
| 19:52.30 | Disconnect | Gumby: that is a stupid question. :) the platform is open. but not the device. or the more interesting apps. |
| 19:52.31 | Gumby | thanks michaelnovakjr |
| 19:52.44 | Disconnect | michaelnovakjr: they opened the gmail app? |
| 19:52.54 | jbq | She'd use the excuse to get a 3G... and she'd use her iPod touch in the meantime. |
| 19:53.08 | michaelnovakjr | Gumby, do you mean the gmail app or the mail app? |
| 19:53.25 | Gumby | Disconnect: so the gmail app must be purchased? Is that what you are saying? On that URL I posted it sasys its free (as in price) |
| 19:53.34 | Gumby | michaelnovakjr: I mean the gmail app |
| 19:53.35 | Disconnect | Gumby: its not open source |
| 19:53.40 | michaelnovakjr | Gumby you can't get the source |
| 19:53.43 | Disconnect | michaelnovakjr: that page is all about the gmail app |
| 19:53.46 | michaelnovakjr | only the Mail app is open source |
| 19:53.52 | Gumby | michaelnovakjr: I dont want the source. I just want the app |
| 19:53.57 | Disconnect | gotta get a g1 |
| 19:54.04 | michaelnovakjr | yea :) g2 |
| 19:54.06 | michaelnovakjr | g1* |
| 19:54.06 | Gumby | so it only comes with the device? |
| 19:54.09 | michaelnovakjr | yes |
| 19:54.18 | Gumby | well that aint no fun!! :) |
| 19:54.29 | Gumby | I just want push email darnit! hehe |
| 19:54.29 | michaelnovakjr | the open source mail app will install on the emulator |
| 19:54.49 | Disconnect | but if you're gonna do that just install k-9 |
| 19:54.51 | Gumby | yeah, I already have that. But it doesnt do push |
| 19:54.59 | Gumby | ditto for k-9 |
| 19:55.28 | *** join/#android sp1 (n=spiglerg@host119-31-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 19:55.39 | *** part/#android sp1 (n=spiglerg@host119-31-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 19:55.53 | Disconnect | nothing on a cell network does "push" (maybe blackberry) .. everything just does variations on "connect with tcp and poll/wait" which is pull |
| 19:56.17 | blau | anyone wanna let me pick their brain regarding scheduling automatic expenses |
| 19:56.35 | jbq | proxy-originated OMA push is a real push. |
| 19:56.47 | Gumby | Disconnect: exchange/activesync does push (and from what Ive been led to believe so does the gmail app but maybe not) |
| 19:57.06 | michaelnovakjr | doesn't it use IDLE |
| 19:57.40 | jbq | Gmail uses a client-originated TCP socket blocked on a read(). |
| 19:58.04 | Disconnect | Gumby: cell network has packet data (sms, voice, PTT) and tcp (email, exchange-email, blackberry, gmail, web..). sorry but they are all the same. implementations differ.. |
| 19:58.36 | Disconnect | reliability (eg blackberry 'always' gets mail) depends on how frequently the server looks/is notified and how hard the client tries to stay connected. |
| 19:59.00 | Gumby | Disconnect: ok, then care to explain why when I have an exchange account setup I get immediate email delivery? No polling/wait times? |
| 19:59.47 | Disconnect | Gumby: because the bb server is notified by the exchange server and your client holds a tcp connection open to the bb server. identical to gmail. identical to what i described above. |
| 19:59.53 | Disconnect | care to explain why you're not listening? |
| 20:00.02 | Ramblurr | romainguy__: after an orientation switch icicle.getBoolean("configchange"); will == true correct? |
| 20:00.22 | Gumby | the socket remains open yes, but its the server that is telling the client that there is email available to be downloaded. |
| 20:01.05 | romainguy | Ramblurr: I never heard of this, so I'd say no |
| 20:01.14 | *** join/#android herriojr (n=Miranda@65.173.101.2) |
| 20:01.35 | romainguy | Ramblurr: you should look at the javadoc for Activity |
| 20:01.48 | vol | KNY: Yeah, the fact that it works for adb shell and not for adb forward is why it was wierd for me. |
| 20:01.59 | Disconnect | the only difference between gmail's "push email" and (grr, whats the email fork with imap idle?) is that gmail works much harder to stay connected. (or 'gets more help staying connected' if you like. part of the platform, etc.) |
| 20:02.26 | herriojr | was SyncableContentProvider replaced or just removed? |
| 20:02.40 | Gumby | Disconnect: I guess the term "push email" has been blurred a bit by MS and google then. They are both saying that they are capable of "push email". The client still initiates the contact which I guess is not true push email. |
| 20:02.53 | jbq | I don't think that Gmail gets any specific help abut staying connected. It might just be more careful about using what the platform exposes. |
| 20:03.00 | Disconnect | thats what i'm saying, yes. |
| 20:03.39 | Disconnect | jbq: is the sync stuff exposed to anywhere else? i haven't looked (although I think you are correct, since sometimes I get email immediately and sometimes it takes -hours- and/or me opening the gmail app..) |
| 20:03.47 | Gumby | in any case, I find this solution (MS version of push email) to use much less battery, which is why for me, its a necessity to have on my phone. |
| 20:04.09 | jbq | Disconnect: I think that the entire sync mechanism is Google-specific, neither exposed nor open-sourced. |
| 20:04.15 | Disconnect | yah |
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| 20:05.12 | Disconnect | Gumby: apples and oranges, but ok. if you require the ms version then you are in the wrong place, it doesn't run under android. |
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| 20:07.08 | Gumby | Disconnect: not what I mean at all. I'd sooner not use the MS mail app. (or MS at all). |
| 20:07.45 | Disconnect | you just said "these identical behaviors on different platforms use differing amounts of battery, but i require the orange one" .. so ok. orange one is over there. |
| 20:08.15 | Gumby | Disconnect: or I could just not use email at all. I'm sorry, I phrased it poorly |
| 20:08.36 | blau | if you care about battery, dont use push |
| 20:08.42 | blau | query the server ever 2 hours |
| 20:08.53 | blau | crisis averted |
| 20:09.15 | Gumby | blau: currently I use push and its better at using less battery than polling every 5 mins |
| 20:09.31 | blau | thats why i said 2 hours :) |
| 20:09.34 | Gumby | or shall I say "MS push" |
| 20:09.50 | blau | wait for someone to build exchange support |
| 20:09.53 | Chainfire | does Android Market run as root? |
| 20:09.55 | blau | and hope i works? |
| 20:09.57 | Gumby | blau: using push uses LESS battery than polling |
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| 20:10.12 | blau | polling ever 2 hours uses more than push still? |
| 20:10.13 | Gumby | allthough probably not pooling every 2 hours. |
| 20:10.15 | romainguy__ | Gumby: depends on many emails you get ^^ |
| 20:10.21 | Gumby | romainguy: true :) |
| 20:10.31 | romainguy__ | at least on my iPhone, having push email made my battery life a LOT worse |
| 20:11.03 | Disconnect | depends on the platform and network. how 'awake' does the device have to be, what does it have to do to stay connected, etc.. |
| 20:11.10 | Gumby | oh well, I'm stil just testing android so its not a big deal. I can wait for a "push email" app to come out |
| 20:11.23 | romainguy__ | jasta is working on push email :p |
| 20:11.25 | Disconnect | BB is the only special-case in that the carrier can charge extra for out-of-band notifications (actual push) |
| 20:12.40 | andyross | Note that any given TCP connection is going to drop more than once every two hours (it does in my area, anyway) forcing a reconnect anyway. So you pay with battery for "continuous" operation even if nothing useful comes down the pipe. |
| 20:14.25 | andyross | I guess a battery-optimal solution would be to push something using an existing mechanism like SMS which then causes a pull at the higher levels. |
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| 20:14.57 | blau | bah, only about 60 people used my software in 10 hours :( |
| 20:15.29 | blau | well used the last 2 versions since those are the only ones that check for updates |
| 20:15.45 | ttuttle | blau: what software? |
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| 20:15.55 | blau | dgMoney |
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| 20:16.12 | blau | the latest 2 versions check for an update file on my webserver to see what the latest ver is |
| 20:16.23 | tripps | any google devs/reps in here that can discuss the android? totally *awesome* device but it's primary function, the telephone, leaves some things to be desired |
| 20:16.24 | blau | so I can check logs and see roughly how many people checked |
| 20:16.31 | aquarist_2006 | is there any sample code directly invoke packet video liabrary in android |
| 20:17.09 | Disconnect | tripps: yes but your better bet is to file bugs |
| 20:17.22 | Disconnect | or submit patche...well scratch that, just file bugs. |
| 20:17.30 | Disconnect | starting with "android isn't a device" :) |
| 20:17.44 | tripps | Disconnect, not sure if these are "bugs" or unintended "features" :) |
| 20:17.57 | Disconnect | trust me, they are probably bugs :) |
| 20:18.02 | tripps | Disconnect, wanted to have a 2 way discussion to get some thoughts/ideas |
| 20:18.07 | blau | id like to hear the issues |
| 20:18.13 | blau | but im not associated with google |
| 20:18.45 | tripps | the main thing that's somewhat frustrating is the key lock timeout that comes up while you're on the phone |
| 20:18.58 | blau | its a feature |
| 20:19.15 | tripps | so when you have an ivr prompt or need to dial something, you need to unlock the phone which seems ridiculous IMHO. |
| 20:20.08 | tripps | what would be ideal and possibly kill lots of birds with one stone would be to have a separate timeout for the screen and key lock |
| 20:20.31 | vol | I have to admit that this is kind of annoying |
| 20:20.35 | vol | I can understand the point |
| 20:20.39 | vol | so that you don't start dialing with your cheek |
| 20:20.51 | tripps | I like the 2 minute screen timeout for battery savings but don't need the key lock for 10 minutes or more or unless I specifically hit the hang up key to activate the key lock, if that makes sense |
| 20:20.51 | vol | but there really needs to be a better way |
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| 20:21.42 | andyross | But the key lock is just dismissed with a single press. Wouldn't any better way be about equally annoying? |
| 20:22.32 | Disconnect | if its a configurable timeout it's automatically less annoying :) |
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| 20:22.34 | tripps | andyross, the keylock takes a complicated gesture to connect the dots in my case and while on a phone call with one hand gets really frustrating |
| 20:22.36 | fadden | Seems like a reasonable use for the accelerometer, i.e. shake the phone to dismiss the in-call screen lock. |
| 20:22.51 | Disconnect | neat. |
| 20:22.53 | tripps | fadden, yes sounds like that could be a good solution |
| 20:22.57 | Disconnect | "what was that whooshing sound?" |
| 20:23.02 | andyross | Oh, right. The gesture thing. Don't have that enabled. But yeah, the shake idea is pretty clever. |
| 20:23.31 | Disconnect | "i went to unlock the screen so i could put in my vm password and it slipped and crashed through my tv! right next to where the wiimote went! aaaah!" |
| 20:23.37 | blau | i think dropping the phone should deploy airbags |
| 20:23.44 | blau | that would be a good use of the accelerometer |
| 20:24.02 | Disconnect | it already voids the warranty, how much more can it do? :) |
| 20:24.21 | vol | haha |
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| 20:25.45 | blau | maybe its me but i see limited purpose for the non pattern keyguard |
| 20:26.17 | blau | if i could, id make it so the keyguard it semi transparent and lets you click behind it |
| 20:26.25 | blau | on the screen |
| 20:26.32 | blau | its hard to explain bah |
| 20:26.46 | Disconnect | if you can click its hardly a guard.. |
| 20:27.10 | tripps | blau, right I think however a simple separate timeout on the gesture screen from the screen timeout would be an easy interim solution |
| 20:27.13 | blau | what im basically saying is that id like to have the option to remove it |
| 20:27.52 | blau | or make an alternative that only locks out the trackball |
| 20:28.17 | blau | imo, the trackball is the only deadly button on the phone that could be pressed while its closed |
| 20:28.28 | herriojr | why did google take away the SyncableContentProvider? |
| 20:28.49 | blau | the back button is basically not destructive, neither is the home, the call button could be but its not easily pressed by accident |
| 20:29.10 | blau | the touch screen cant be touched accidentally |
| 20:29.18 | blau | since it requires touching by your hand |
| 20:29.56 | blau | my solution would be to have a "half guard" that locks out the call button and trackball until you start pressing something else or interacting with the screen |
| 20:30.20 | Disconnect | blau: can touch the screen with your face successfully |
| 20:30.43 | blau | thats why the screen turns off :P |
| 20:31.20 | Disconnect | 'interacting'? |
| 20:31.40 | blau | interacting, touching the screen or using one of the non destructive buttons |
| 20:32.05 | Disconnect | so its off.. until your cheek touches it? seems less useful that way. or am i misunderstanding? |
| 20:32.21 | blau | misunderstanding |
| 20:32.27 | blau | ill explain in like 30, im leaving work now |
| 20:32.31 | blau | bbiab |
| 20:33.12 | jasta | Gumby: http://jasta.dyndns.org/android/Exmail.apk -- standard E-mail app + IMAP IDLE (push e-mail) |
| 20:33.12 | tripps | Disconnect, yeah I touched my face to the screen and raised all sort of hell on a phone call this morning ;) |
| 20:33.12 | jasta | (but there are bugs *grin*) |
| 20:33.26 | Disconnect | lol |
| 20:34.32 | tripps | so I like the regular timeout which would only require the call or menu buttons to get back to the screen, but definitely not the complicated gesture while on a call |
| 20:34.41 | pawalls | jasta, I assume you're going to stick it on the market eventually? |
| 20:38.40 | unix_lappy | expects to see some decent email apps once paid apps come around. |
| 20:39.27 | michaelnovakjr | unix_lappy: why paid? |
| 20:40.49 | pawalls | snickers.. |
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| 20:41.14 | pawalls | Crashing quite frequently, though it's possible that I haven't configured IDLE correctly. |
| 20:42.10 | unix_lappy | paid, because email is the ultimate API for geeks and nongeeks alike, and non-geeks will pay money for a "just works" push-email app. |
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| 20:42.45 | michaelnovakjr | ok, but who's to say there won't be a free mail app that 'just works' |
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| 20:43.48 | orci_ | hi, any apps that keep track of battery charge history etc |
| 20:44.12 | vol | I don't believe so |
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| 20:44.16 | vol | You could always write one : ) |
| 20:44.26 | vol | poll every minute or so |
| 20:44.34 | orci_ | I have to learn java gui programming first :)) |
| 20:44.47 | michaelnovakjr | poll every minute? |
| 20:44.53 | SanMehat | ack |
| 20:44.55 | SanMehat | dont poll |
| 20:45.16 | orci_ | it should just keep track of last charge time, the level it was charged up to |
| 20:45.16 | vol | well, have the timer do something once a minute? |
| 20:45.23 | vol | ah |
| 20:45.30 | vol | I thought he wanted a more thorough graph :P |
| 20:45.31 | michaelnovakjr | no no no no no no no no no no no no no no |
| 20:45.42 | michaelnovakjr | i would uninstall anything that polled every minute like that |
| 20:45.49 | michaelnovakjr | for battery state? |
| 20:46.21 | orci_ | it could give recommendations for when it might be best to recharge, etc |
| 20:46.29 | vol | orci_: in any event, the GUI stuff is actually pretty easy |
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| 20:46.49 | StyleWarz | heyho |
| 20:46.56 | orci_ | vol, I kind of know but have no experience, I should just jump in it and try to swim |
| 20:47.24 | StyleWarz | anyone using an HTC BA with android? |
| 20:47.42 | orci_ | I wish market app was showing th elicenses as well, I am pretty sure what they mean by FREE is not actually free |
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| 20:47.57 | michaelnovakjr | ? |
| 20:48.06 | orci_ | MichaelJE2, free as in freedom |
| 20:48.15 | orci_ | michaelnovakjr, ^ |
| 20:48.22 | michaelnovakjr | eh, it would be nice to see the license |
| 20:48.45 | vol | orci_: Free as in beer |
| 20:48.54 | vol | most of the apps on marketplace are not free as in speech |
| 20:49.00 | orci_ | so people like me might choose to stay away from licenses that they may not like |
| 20:49.20 | vol | eh, if it makes you feel better, clickthrough EULAs are unenforcable |
| 20:49.28 | orci_ | any other repositories, yet? |
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| 20:49.45 | unix_lappy | handango is working on one. |
| 20:49.55 | michaelnovakjr | vol, it could just list the license |
| 20:50.09 | unix_lappy | though, as per marketplace TOS they cant put out an app. |
| 20:50.09 | StyleWarz | does anyone have a nokia n810 with a current version of android running? :s |
| 20:50.09 | michaelnovakjr | more for knowledge purposes i guess |
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| 20:50.35 | orci_ | does handango have a website for her project? |
| 20:50.43 | michaelnovakjr | handango sucks |
| 20:51.11 | unix_lappy | i wasnt overly impressed with handango OR the people behind it. |
| 20:51.20 | unix_lappy | erm, and* |
| 20:51.23 | michaelnovakjr | +1 |
| 20:51.26 | unix_lappy | needs to eat something. |
| 20:51.48 | Zelig_ | Hey, anyone fiddling with the accelerometers in the G1? |
| 20:51.57 | vol | not I |
| 20:52.01 | Disconnect | jasta: any possibility of integrating with k-9? |
| 20:52.09 | orci_ | Zelig_, KNY, does |
| 20:53.29 | jasta | Disconnect: i am going to be providing patches very shortly. they can do with them as they please. |
| 20:53.41 | jasta | but personally i'd prefer not to run K-9. |
| 20:53.52 | Disconnect | just ooc why not? (assuming it does imap idle of course) |
| 20:54.15 | jasta | i don't like their approach. they are just hacking and slashing at the code without bothering to make clean changes and patch the original app |
| 20:54.26 | jasta | and they are doing so very recklessly |
| 20:54.31 | michaelnovakjr | i agree with jasta, its a waste |
| 20:54.45 | Disconnect | i haven't looked at the code, so.. but ok :) |
| 20:54.53 | romainguy__ | they actualy submitted their first patch |
| 20:55.12 | jasta | yeah? *searches* |
| 20:55.24 | romainguy__ | http://r.android.com/2630 |
| 20:56.08 | jasta | oh that's a pretty useful one if his analysis is correct |
| 20:56.58 | Disconnect | yah i was just gonna ask what was wrong (other than the 'm') |
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| 20:57.42 | romainguy__ | Disconnect: nothing's wrong |
| 20:59.01 | jasta | i think the proper way to have handled k-9 was through a script which applied incremental patches, so they could maintain all their changes nice and tidy. |
| 20:59.15 | jasta | that way the builder could also cherry pick certain isolated features |
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| 20:59.29 | orci_ | when I reply to a perso in k-9 or the default e-mail application same behaviour happens. It puts a "," at the and tells me that I need at least one recipient to send the e-mail. I cannot use the pre saved e-mails in my contact list either. I have to write from the beginning each time I compose a message |
| 20:59.50 | orci_ | does anybody else have that? |
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| 21:00.23 | stadlero | jasta, my feedback to the k9 patch (which isn't on that "r" page because I was having an account problem) was exactly the same as you and I discussed; I asked them to hold off for just a bit, because of an impending update from this end, and also to plan to write a unit test for it. |
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| 21:01.45 | jasta | stadlero: i do hope that this impending update is coming soon :) |
| 21:01.56 | ismarc | stadlero: does the update from that end include Exchange/WebDAV stuff at all? |
| 21:02.06 | jasta | btw, can you discuss any details of this change? will it affect any of the changes we discussed for imap idle? |
| 21:02.22 | ismarc | stadlero: that's more of a "should I abandon what I've been working on or not" question than a "ooh ooh gimme" question |
| 21:02.26 | Disconnect | ..and will tmobile keep issuing updates every week? |
| 21:02.32 | Disconnect | cuz if not, its kinda moot :) |
| 21:02.56 | jasta | Disconnect: not at all. it's important that we're all working on the same tree. doesn't matter what t-mobile does. |
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| 21:03.17 | jasta | plus, with a script i wrote, you can install the stock Email app (or any others for that matter) onto a phone |
| 21:03.26 | stadlero | No, right now I'm focusing on bug fixing P1 errors like connection failures, crashers, lack of privacy/security, and localization. No major new features... yet... |
| 21:03.33 | jasta | in fact, i had meant to post that script for the k-9 developers so they could revert their namespaces for patches |
| 21:03.57 | jasta | stadlero: ahh, connection failures is an interesting one that i discovered. |
| 21:04.03 | jasta | while working on IMAP IDLE i mean |
| 21:04.20 | jasta | it seems that the app treats a timed out connection (which was idle) as a connection error? |
| 21:04.30 | ismarc | awesome...at my current rate of development, expect Exchange/WebDAV support patch in 6-9 months :( |
| 21:04.45 | stadlero | jasta, mostly there are spot fixes, but there is some rework in connection failures handling |
| 21:04.49 | stadlero | (I have to run, meeting) |
| 21:04.53 | jasta | later |
| 21:04.55 | Gumby | thx for the URL jasta |
| 21:05.11 | jasta | thank me for my work, not my web server :) |
| 21:05.16 | Gumby | lol |
| 21:05.17 | Disconnect | random side note, another simple fix i keep forgetting to list that isn't possible right now/ever: stop the browser from saving stuff to the data partition. (and marketplace, but thats a closed app). i might be able to replace the browser (k-9/jastamail style) with one that works, at a net loss in available storage. but i can't fix the actual broken bits or make the situation better. |
| 21:05.32 | Gumby | I havnt tried it yet, I'll thank you when I try it and like it :) |
| 21:06.01 | jasta | Gumby: it is exactly like the current email app except that it has push support. |
| 21:06.20 | jasta | there is one bug which can "miss" certain incoming messages, but its a pretty unlikely case that i'd be surprised you find |
| 21:06.25 | jasta | and i'm also working on it :) |
| 21:07.23 | romainguy | Disconnect: why can't you fix browser using the git tree? |
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| 21:08.05 | Disconnect | romainguy: i can, but what i can't do is fix it on any devices. so the motivation is hardly there. "hey, if i put this fix in i can LOSE a ton of storage! woo!" and that assumes the breakage isn't in the webkit native bits.. |
| 21:08.21 | romainguy | but if you fix it, it will be part of a future update... |
| 21:08.49 | romainguy | stop saying it is not possible to fix something when it is |
| 21:08.59 | romainguy | so yes, you cannot replace the Browser on your device right now |
| 21:09.02 | romainguy | but you can still fix issues |
| 21:09.08 | romainguy | if you don't want to do it, that's perfectly fine |
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| 21:09.19 | michaelnovakjr | just dont complain :) |
| 21:09.28 | romainguy | but don't say things like it's not possible |
| 21:09.30 | fadden | Well, complain constructively. |
| 21:09.35 | romainguy | it's very different from not having the incentive to do it |
| 21:09.42 | ismarc | fadden: that's called creating a bug report |
| 21:09.47 | Gumby | jasta: is there somewhere (other than here) that I can view your email app status (regarding updates, bugs, and fixes)? |
| 21:09.52 | fadden | If nobody complained, IRC traffic would drop by 42%. |
| 21:10.06 | michaelnovakjr | is that a bad thing :) |
| 21:10.09 | Zelig_ | Huh. is that bad? |
| 21:10.12 | DarkriftX | 80% of all statistics are made up on the spot |
| 21:10.12 | Zelig_ | D'oh, slow. |
| 21:10.13 | unix_lappy | ^ that's top notch google research btw folks :-) |
| 21:10.38 | fadden | The actual number I made up on the spot is 42.3%, but I rounded it off for easier digestion. |
| 21:10.45 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 21:10.50 | Zelig_ | Much more believable that way. |
| 21:10.57 | *** join/#android blau (n=blau@pool-72-76-169-214.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) |
| 21:12.54 | Disconnect | romainguy: thats likely a simple fix, and i might since nobody has bothered with the bug report (#1068 if you are keeping track at home, plus the various forum discussions on how to move it to sd card if you have root) but it is the monster-software-company approach to get it onto a device. so chances are good you'll see devs do 1, maybe 2 rounds of coding/patching before they get fed up and either work only in app space or move on entirely. |
| 21:14.31 | Disconnect | the motivation for that itch is to fix it on the device. (so now is probably the time, with tmob doing their constant "wtf were they thinking" patch cycles :) ..) |
| 21:14.48 | blau | are we bitching about the lack of storage on the g1? |
| 21:15.15 | spikebike | what lack |
| 21:15.23 | spikebike | buy an SD card |
| 21:15.35 | blau | you cant run apps off an sd card |
| 21:15.37 | DarkriftX | not everything can be stored there |
| 21:15.40 | spikebike | you can |
| 21:16.15 | DarkriftX | cept with root, which lots of ppl wont have |
| 21:16.15 | spikebike | if you have root |
| 21:16.16 | spikebike | well then the bitch should be about the lack of root |
| 21:16.16 | DarkriftX | it is |
| 21:16.16 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 21:16.16 | DarkriftX | this is a specific reason |
| 21:16.16 | Disconnect | its not actually. |
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| 21:16.16 | Chainfire | err |
| 21:16.17 | cmonex | hm |
| 21:16.19 | Chainfire | i thought all the bitching was about not having root? |
| 21:16.20 | cmonex | so you need root even for that |
| 21:16.21 | cmonex | shame |
| 21:16.25 | Disconnect | throwing out the entire security model because the phone hasn't got onboard storage is harldy the right answer. |
| 21:16.26 | blau | you shouldnt have to make a symbolic link to run shit on an sd card |
| 21:16.29 | cmonex | =P |
| 21:16.38 | spikebike | I hardly call having root pitching the security model |
| 21:16.39 | Chainfire | still waiting for not needing root for decent socket stuff <1024 :)) |
| 21:16.43 | Disconnect | (even though I htink the security model is - nicely put - very poorly thought out) |
| 21:16.49 | DarkriftX | dont think that works blau |
| 21:16.59 | DarkriftX | i tried a symlink to an apk on sd card and it failed |
| 21:17.00 | blau | oh, well then how are they doing it with root? |
| 21:17.02 | Disconnect | spikebike: erm. sd card has no ownership. so any app can access any file. thats the whole of the security model, right there, rihgt out the window. |
| 21:17.14 | spikebike | disconnect you are assuming fat32 |
| 21:17.27 | DarkriftX | because fat32 is default |
| 21:17.29 | spikebike | sd card could handle ext2 for instance |
| 21:17.34 | *** join/#android jexe (n=jesseboy@static-64-115-213-78.isp.broadviewnet.net) |
| 21:17.34 | Zelig_ | Because you'd also like the SDcard to be readable by other devices. |
| 21:17.36 | DarkriftX | but does the stock kernel? |
| 21:17.46 | blau | id be fine without the sd card being readable by other devices |
| 21:17.47 | spikebike | yeah |
| 21:17.50 | DarkriftX | oh |
| 21:17.51 | spikebike | you have to add a module |
| 21:17.55 | DarkriftX | so its just ext3 it didnt have |
| 21:17.55 | Disconnect | stock kernel has no ext support |
| 21:18.01 | DarkriftX | oh, well without root, you cannot add module |
| 21:18.03 | spikebike | right, you need a kernel |
| 21:18.05 | Disconnect | ext2/ext3 are both missing. adding a module doesn't make it the stock kernel anymore. |
| 21:18.08 | spikebike | yes, you need root |
| 21:18.10 | Zelig_ | Meh, thatd be a terriubly unpopular choice. |
| 21:18.14 | Disconnect | yah really |
| 21:18.15 | DarkriftX | thats the point |
| 21:18.17 | Disconnect | @Zelig_ |
| 21:18.22 | DarkriftX | the only way to do it is with root |
| 21:18.44 | spikebike | so yes the g1 has a huge number of issues without root, no vpn, no backups, no storage. |
| 21:18.48 | DarkriftX | we should either have root (with other security measures in place) or have abilities like this without root |
| 21:18.54 | spikebike | agreed |
| 21:19.01 | DarkriftX | id like the first one more |
| 21:19.11 | spikebike | agreed |
| 21:19.12 | DarkriftX | have root, but make it hard to get to |
| 21:19.21 | spikebike | dunno, other communities are fine with root |
| 21:19.25 | spikebike | like say nokia/maemo |
| 21:19.33 | Disconnect | DarkriftX: thats no different than not having it. consider the n800. without root (as it ships) you can do all that stuff just fine. |
| 21:19.35 | jasta | Gumby: currently, no. soon i will just post my patches somewhere. |
| 21:19.46 | spikebike | n800 basically comes with root |
| 21:19.55 | DarkriftX | make a special process you have to enter into in bootloader mode, a keypress, sign (with a button) a form saying you understand the security risks, then it runs a script that gives you su access (not just full on root) |
| 21:20.04 | jasta | for now i dont have them posted because there are known bugs :) |
| 21:20.12 | *** join/#android poetic_folly|G5 (n=poetic_f@97.103.39.213) |
| 21:20.17 | spikebike | not to mention cell providers allow tethering, which == root |
| 21:20.30 | DarkriftX | i agree Disconnect i can do a lot on my ubuntu box without root, but not everything |
| 21:20.32 | vol | The n800 has redpill/bluepill mode which lets you give yourself root |
| 21:20.33 | blau | make it act like windows vista user access control! |
| 21:20.34 | Disconnect | spikebike: wtf are you talking about? tethering isn't root. |
| 21:20.34 | *** join/#android berto (i=47e69177@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-019b39d445fd1861) |
| 21:20.43 | blau | everytime you have to do something interesting ask for access! |
| 21:20.51 | Chainfire | yeah |
| 21:20.59 | DarkriftX | blau, thats like sudo on linux |
| 21:21.01 | Disconnect | thinks you are all way too hung up on root. |
| 21:21.04 | DarkriftX | which is actually good |
| 21:21.05 | Chainfire | thats a surefire way to get the G1 dusty on a shelf |
| 21:21.06 | spikebike | disconnect if I have root on a laptop connected to tether how is that "safer" than root on a g1? |
| 21:21.31 | spikebike | what is the argument against root on the g1 vs tether? |
| 21:21.47 | spikebike | both allow uncontrolled processes access to the cellular network |
| 21:21.51 | blau | its not about what you can do on the network, it sounds like its more about people trashing their phone |
| 21:21.51 | DarkriftX | vol, i like that name, bluepill/redpill |
| 21:21.53 | Chainfire | DarkriftX not only am I hung up that I can't have root on my device |
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| 21:22.02 | DarkriftX | would be perfect |
| 21:22.03 | Disconnect | spikebike: lets do it. here is an e90. it has a bunch of system files i can't access and a bunch of user files i can. and, bonus, it tethers just fine. so its tethered. now i'm on the internet via edge (no 3g in the usa, its imported). that gains me -nothing at all- on the phone. nada. zero. zilch. |
| 21:22.05 | spikebike | root != ability to brick phone |
| 21:22.05 | blau | spike, we already basically have unconrolled processes on the cell network |
| 21:22.21 | spikebike | right |
| 21:22.34 | spikebike | so what is tmo's argument against root? |
| 21:22.37 | Disconnect | tethering has nothing to do with root. |
| 21:22.41 | Chainfire | its even more that having root on your own device is considered a bigger risk than storing your data at an external party that really has no reason to be trusted (and many not to), like Google. |
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| 21:22.49 | Chainfire | which is clearly, insane. |
| 21:23.24 | Disconnect | Chainfire: don't forget, if the application data is important or sensitive it shouldn't be stored on the sd card. except, thats the only place it can be backed up from. whoops, sorry you lost all that critical data.. |
| 21:23.27 | Zelig_ | tmo's argument against root is it opens up competition for service provisions they;d like to keep to themselves. |
| 21:23.42 | Disconnect | Zelig_: like what? |
| 21:23.49 | Zelig_ | This is a rational preference from their perspective. It's just counter to our interests. |
| 21:23.59 | Chainfire | which is nonsense Zelig_, as you get full "root" for other OSs they have on their phones |
| 21:24.06 | Disconnect | Chainfire: not true.. |
| 21:24.14 | Zelig_ | Well, I'm not saying it's a -good- reason. |
| 21:24.18 | *** join/#android Dralspire385 (n=dral@81-196.126-70.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 21:24.19 | Zelig_ | Just that it's a rational desire. |
| 21:24.21 | Chainfire | Disconnect how so |
| 21:24.24 | vol | Zelig_: I'm kind of curious what services they sell that you can do yourself with root |
| 21:24.45 | spikebike | heh |
| 21:24.48 | Chainfire | Disconnect> what part of "root" dont you have on a Sprint Touch Pro, for example ? |
| 21:24.52 | Disconnect | Chainfire: pick a device, then modify some piece of the core system. without hacking it.. |
| 21:24.52 | Zelig_ | Best example I can come up with is not applicable any more. |
| 21:24.54 | Zelig_ | Ringtones. |
| 21:25.02 | Zelig_ | I went through all kinds of nonsense to get a |
| 21:25.10 | Chainfire | Disconnect if you have the knowledge you can... |
| 21:25.10 | Zelig_ | custom ringtone on my previous phone. |
| 21:25.21 | Disconnect | Chainfire: the part that allows me to change the browser logo. or replace the font. (i haven't worked with the touch pro but ..) or delete all the system files. |
| 21:25.21 | spikebike | vol a AOL/MSN/yahoo chat that doesn't cost SMS |
| 21:25.26 | spikebike | oh wait, that doesn't require root |
| 21:25.29 | Zelig_ | Most recent phones seem to be able to get a random MP3 and play it now. |
| 21:25.45 | Chainfire | Disconnect> well system files you can delete because they are in ROM, but you CAN replace them... |
| 21:25.50 | Chainfire | *cant delete |
| 21:25.54 | Zelig_ | But if you make it really hard to DIY, then the folks who sell ringtones for $2.50 a pop are very happy. |
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| 21:26.25 | vol | Zelig_: there's a freaking "turn my mp3 into a ringtone app" for crying out loud. |
| 21:26.29 | berto | does it mean anything for gaining an a2dp bluetooth profile? |
| 21:26.30 | Disconnect | Chainfire: thats not rom. thats non-root. |
| 21:26.38 | Zelig_ | That's why I said it's no longer applicable. |
| 21:26.47 | Zelig_ | Folks got around it well enough. |
| 21:26.52 | vol | I seriously cannot think of anything that's not tethering and that's not "running a webservice like sshd from your phone" that applies |
| 21:26.58 | Chainfire | Disconnect even the kernel itself cant rewrite those files... |
| 21:28.51 | spikebike | vol vpn? backups? |
| 21:29.06 | Disconnect | Chainfire: something does system updates. |
| 21:29.06 | vol | and I challenge you to do otherwise |
| 21:29.06 | Disconnect | vol: backups. |
| 21:29.06 | Chainfire | Disconnect yeah the radio does... |
| 21:29.06 | DarkriftX | ouch |
| 21:29.06 | Chainfire | err radio |
| 21:29.06 | DarkriftX | wow, big split and still 223 users? |
| 21:29.06 | Chainfire | SPL |
| 21:29.07 | Chainfire | thats in the radio, no? |
| 21:29.07 | DarkriftX | or does xchat not recount users after splits |
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| 21:29.07 | Disconnect | hmm. some big pieces of the net just fell down, according to my monitoring. weird. |
| 21:29.07 | blau | lol |
| 21:29.28 | DarkriftX | california fell into the ocean!!! run!!! |
| 21:29.28 | Disconnect | not just irc. google is unreachable from here, cnn is marked down.. |
| 21:29.28 | Zelig_ | It's obviously your fault: it's your name, disconnect. :) |
| 21:29.28 | blau | yeah i cant connect to google |
| 21:29.28 | *** join/#android keby (n=keby@cpe-24-243-43-87.satx.res.rr.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 21:29.29 | blau | or amazon |
| 21:29.29 | blau | and i was editing notes in google notebook |
| 21:29.29 | DarkriftX | google works here |
| 21:29.29 | fadden | I can confirm that California is still floating. |
| 21:29.29 | Disconnect | yah |
| 21:29.29 | DarkriftX | so cali is still alive somewhat |
| 21:29.29 | Chainfire | Disconnect> even if I cede you that part, on which I disagree with you, its still a hell of a lot more root than the G1 is. I CAN replace core system files with my own versions, I CAN load my own device drivers etc, I do have full access to non-ROM files |
| 21:29.43 | Zelig_ | Works from Florida (Cox internet) |
| 21:29.43 | Disconnect | its routing - guy here w/o vpn is able to get to it. i can get to my fios link but not google from there |
| 21:29.43 | blau | i can get to excite.com |
| 21:30.05 | Chainfire | perhaps sprint pulled cogent's plug again ;d |
| 21:30.05 | Zelig_ | Owie. |
| 21:30.05 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 21:30.09 | vol | Disconnect: I wasn't even aware that there was a backup service offered by tmobile |
| 21:30.11 | DarkriftX | heads off to the DR's |
| 21:30.29 | Disconnect | vol: huh? |
| 21:31.05 | vol | 16:27 < Disconnect> vol: backups. |
| 21:31.31 | Disconnect | and actually, sidekicks are handled that way. so they do offer a backup service of sorts. |
| 21:31.36 | berto | is there any progress on a2dp? any word on how long until we have this feature? |
| 21:31.56 | blau | sidekicks rock |
| 21:32.02 | blau | each app gets some server side storage |
| 21:32.08 | Disconnect | berto: sometime in q3 next year at this rate |
| 21:32.14 | Disconnect | but i'll push it back farther every time you ask |
| 21:32.23 | blau | but app dev is pretty locked down |
| 21:32.27 | *** part/#android aterrel (n=aterrel@145.107.9.167) |
| 21:32.29 | blau | good luck getting something released publicly |
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| 21:32.56 | blau | at least as of sidekick 3, dont know if anything changed |
| 21:33.01 | vol | Disconnect: I know sidekicks are handled that way (I had one) but I'm pretty sure they don't have that for android |
| 21:33.03 | berto | i don't care if you push it back, i have a dash =p |
| 21:33.14 | vol | and that has nothing to do with root |
| 21:33.30 | vol | aside from "private" files |
| 21:33.38 | berto | whats the hold up anyways? |
| 21:34.03 | Chainfire | any got a native android code debugger running for the emulator? (and if so, which one?) |
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| 21:34.23 | vol | Chainfire: I've been using gdb, with varying levels of success |
| 21:34.33 | Chainfire | vol> where you nick it from ? |
| 21:34.36 | vol | still having a dash of trouble. |
| 21:35.03 | vol | Chainfire: one of the google gents here gave me gdbserver, but some enterprising fellow compiled his own version of gdbserver, gdb, strace, and bash |
| 21:35.08 | vol | and I've been using those |
| 21:35.31 | vol | the only problem is that attempting to use gdb on the emulator runs completely out of memory |
| 21:35.36 | vol | and the emulator crumbles like a cheap wet box |
| 21:35.37 | Chainfire | vol> you got a link for me? |
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| 21:35.50 | vol | http://ortegaalfredo.googlepages.com/android |
| 21:35.57 | vol | gdb will demand that /bin exist |
| 21:36.00 | Chainfire | thx |
| 21:36.02 | Bally3 | ha! |
| 21:36.02 | vol | so you have to remount the root dir with rw |
| 21:36.14 | vol | mount -w -o remount -t rootfs rootfs / |
| 21:36.34 | vol | you'll also have to remount /system/bin to stick these in there |
| 21:36.49 | vol | so, same deal, mount -w -o remount -t yaffs2 /dev/whatever /system |
| 21:37.10 | Chainfire | yar thx i know that part |
| 21:37.18 | Chainfire | i love how he ends that blog post with "I rule" |
| 21:37.26 | Chainfire | I need to debug my FreePascal app |
| 21:37.42 | Chainfire | its running fine but refuses to exit :D |
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| 21:40.03 | vol | Chainfire: excellent. |
| 21:40.05 | vol | btw |
| 21:40.24 | vol | I had significant success using gdbclient from the android source |
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| 21:41.50 | vol | in any event, you'll want to have the shared libs from the device (and a copy of app_process) somewhere you can reference them |
| 21:41.56 | Chainfire | vol im gonna have to read up on gdb/client/server stuff |
| 21:42.17 | vol | Chainfire: so far, it seems to not be hideously hard |
| 21:42.28 | vol | let me pastebin my method of debugging Hello, Segfault |
| 21:42.30 | Chainfire | vol> its just a hello world command line program |
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| 21:42.45 | Chainfire | it doesnt use any shared libs :) |
| 21:42.54 | vol | libc, libm, etc. |
| 21:43.00 | Chainfire | except, it doesnt :) |
| 21:43.04 | vol | if you have sprintf, you're using a shared li- |
| 21:43.05 | vol | oh |
| 21:43.06 | Chainfire | FPC has its own RTL |
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| 21:43.21 | vol | well, make sure you can reference those |
| 21:43.29 | Chainfire | they are statically linked :) |
| 21:43.47 | vol | the biggest part is running adb forward tcp:1234 tcp:1234 |
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| 21:43.51 | vol | (or whatever port you want to use) |
| 21:44.02 | vol | that will forward port 1234 on the device/emulator to port 1234 on your machine |
| 21:44.12 | vol | then, when you run gdb, you type |
| 21:44.16 | vol | target remote localhost:1234 |
| 21:44.22 | vol | I start gdbserver as |
| 21:44.25 | Chainfire | good im logging this |
| 21:44.34 | vol | gdbserver 10.0.2.2:1234 /data/hello |
| 21:44.49 | vol | do target remote localhost:1234 |
| 21:44.54 | vol | after you start gdbserver |
| 21:44.55 | vol | also |
| 21:45.01 | vol | when you run gdb, you're going to debug against app_process |
| 21:45.08 | vol | which will load your program and execute it |
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| 21:45.28 | vol | so, I use symbol-file (filename) to load it into memory |
| 21:45.28 | vol | and set a breakpoint at main |
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| 21:46.15 | Chainfire | ah k |
| 21:46.15 | vol | though, it apparently sets it at the breakpoint for the linker |
| 21:46.15 | vol | so I end up doing break hello.c:4 :\ |
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| 21:47.24 | Chainfire | myeah usually my IDE does the GDB part for me |
| 21:47.24 | Chainfire | perhaps i can get it to work with this gdb so i dont have to remember all that stuff :P |
| 21:47.24 | blau | internet is back! |
| 21:47.24 | spikebike | heard that verizon is having major issues |
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| 21:50.05 | tripps | do we have tethering capabilities on the G1 yet? |
| 21:51.06 | blau | ughhhhhhh google notebook lost all of my sections |
| 21:51.07 | blau | :( |
| 21:51.47 | spikebike | ya |
| 21:51.53 | spikebike | via usb |
| 21:52.09 | blau | so now i have 80 notes all lumped together |
| 21:52.38 | vol | tethering works via usb? |
| 21:52.44 | vol | I didn't realize that worked yet :D |
| 21:52.50 | spikebike | I'm pretty sure |
| 21:52.57 | Chainfire | only proxy right now |
| 21:53.02 | dgilmore | spikebike: where are the docs? |
| 21:53.26 | spikebike | http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443025 |
| 21:53.35 | spikebike | uses socks |
| 21:54.13 | kRutOn | without socks your feet get too sweaty |
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| 21:54.40 | tripps | spikebike, awesome I'll check it out! |
| 21:54.43 | spikebike | and isn't the web proxy hack |
| 21:55.01 | spikebike | other folks have cross compiled some iptables and was working on dhcpd |
| 21:55.06 | Chainfire | im still waiting on my G1 to release my own (better, of course) proxy |
| 21:55.10 | spikebike | it's already in the kernel |
| 21:55.25 | Chainfire | yeah iptables is crossbuilt if you build the android source |
| 21:55.33 | Chainfire | (but no G1, so haven't been able to play with it :/) |
| 21:55.49 | kRutOn | Does the G1 act as an AP as well? I noticed hostapd on there |
| 21:56.07 | Chainfire | funny though |
| 21:56.17 | Chainfire | that topic states firefox doesnt work with socks proxy itself |
| 21:56.20 | Chainfire | without addon |
| 21:56.22 | Chainfire | which it DOES |
| 21:56.31 | Chainfire | I know cause I've tested using a socks proxy on WM |
| 21:56.35 | tripps | has there been any discussion of using the accelerometer to support display rotation without pulling out the keyboard? that would be cool. |
| 21:57.00 | Disconnect | tripps: evidently google found it unreliable and too much like the jesus phone. |
| 21:57.07 | incandenza | Chainfire: I think they figured out later you just needed to set a setting in about:config to route the DNS through socks |
| 21:57.10 | Disconnect | anyway its time to go home :) |
| 21:57.18 | Chainfire | ah k incandenza |
| 21:57.27 | Chainfire | (my setup also had a DNS proxy) |
| 21:58.08 | Chainfire | its weird it doesnt do that out of the box though... there's a good reason you can supply a fully qualified host name on socks instead of just IP addresses... |
| 21:58.09 | sfuentes | ok i my g1 is now modified rc30 :D |
| 21:58.12 | tripps | Disconnect, bummer. I hope they change their minds, or at least make it available for those that would like it |
| 21:58.36 | Chainfire | tripps> I have this on some apps on my Touch Pro, and it's absolutely horribly annoying |
| 21:59.37 | Damm | .. |
| 21:59.40 | tripps | what I have also heard a lot of people wanting is a screen keyboard for quick one handed typing without opening keyboard. yes, I know it would suck as bad as jesus phone keyboard, but it's the choice in any case ;) |
| 22:00.04 | vol | I really would like that. |
| 22:00.13 | vol | It might be awkward and fat-fingerful |
| 22:00.19 | vol | but sometimes I just don't want to flip out the freaking keyboard. |
| 22:00.20 | spikebike | sfuentes: congrats |
| 22:00.28 | tripps | vol, exactly |
| 22:00.29 | vol | especially when I just need to punch in a number or two |
| 22:00.48 | vol | if I want to press "5" I don't want to slide that open, find the teeny 5 key, and mispress 6 by accident |
| 22:01.03 | tripps | vol, I think that along with accel based rotation would save lots of wear and tear on the phone itself, too |
| 22:01.07 | spikebike | yeah, seems silly to open the keyboard for 2 chars |
| 22:01.10 | mikey| | hello all, im still having no luck getting the edittext and buttons on the side to work nicely :| |
| 22:01.33 | mikey| | the edittext is set to fill_parent for width and the buttons end up on top of it |
| 22:01.38 | tripps | also really would love screen gestures for shortcuts, etc. to work across all apps ;) |
| 22:01.48 | mikey| | how could I make it so it stops at the edges of the button? |
| 22:02.45 | tripps | i've also wondered why the alt vs. shift for the number keys on the G1. what is that all about? why not have them shifted like a real keyboard instead of using alt? that trips me up a lot |
| 22:05.15 | tripps | Chainfire, I wonder if it is a function of hardware? the jesus phone works reasonably well. sensitivity settings could be customized I presume |
| 22:05.51 | *** part/#android px (i=px@havok.org) |
| 22:05.56 | tripps | vol, you suppose a soft keyboard like that would be a market place app or something google would write? |
| 22:06.01 | Chainfire | nah its done in software :) |
| 22:06.15 | blau | both! |
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| 22:06.23 | blau | google needs to make an api available to implement one nicely |
| 22:06.45 | jbq | blau: it's on the roadmap. |
| 22:06.51 | tripps | Chainfire, right - but the software could have sensitivity settings determining how forceful of a rotation would be required or something |
| 22:06.58 | blau | yay |
| 22:07.04 | Chainfire | sure you could write that |
| 22:07.07 | tripps | jbq, excellent - the api or the soft keyboard itself? |
| 22:07.11 | Chainfire | it will STILL be annoying as hell, though |
| 22:07.22 | jbq | tripps: both |
| 22:07.46 | Chainfire | jbq> any way to get the <1024 port non-root access bumped up on the fix list? :) |
| 22:07.48 | jbq | tripps: http://source.android.com/roadmap check the Q1 part |
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| 22:08.04 | jbq | Chainfire: that's not my decision :( |
| 22:08.24 | Chainfire | who do I call/write/threaten? :) |
| 22:09.12 | jbq | I don't know... |
| 22:09.15 | tripps | jbq, cool roger thx |
| 22:09.25 | Chainfire | too bad... |
| 22:09.31 | *** join/#android plusminus_ (i=4421a620@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-5393898c8b86acf2) |
| 22:09.51 | blau | who do ihave to hug to get a job at google new york |
| 22:10.02 | clicke | hug? |
| 22:10.22 | blau | so we can be best friends |
| 22:10.28 | blau | and theyll put in a good word for me |
| 22:10.31 | blau | lol |
| 22:11.08 | clicke | heh |
| 22:11.09 | ismarc | blau: You realize part of the interview process is seeing how many hits you can take with a baseball bat and continue coding, right? |
| 22:11.36 | *** join/#android tripps (n=sean@72.20.150.206) |
| 22:11.53 | Chainfire | dont you need like a PhD at minimum to work at Google ? |
| 22:12.04 | clicke | Chainfire: not anymore iirc |
| 22:12.19 | blau | its a minimum for research work |
| 22:12.19 | Chainfire | cool. I got a swimming diploma |
| 22:12.41 | Chainfire | doesnt like swimming, though |
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| 22:14.05 | blau | yeah the research scientist jobs require a phd |
| 22:14.12 | blau | everything else doesnt seem too picky though |
| 22:14.17 | Chainfire | meh I just want to code fun stuff |
| 22:14.17 | blau | and i have a masters |
| 22:14.39 | blau | i just dont have any published papers though |
| 22:14.57 | Chainfire | i dropped out of CS |
| 22:15.10 | SplasPood | hrm, does anyone know what adb devices showing 'offline' means? Seems I cannot connect to the device, although the adb devices entry disappears when it's not connected |
| 22:15.19 | vol | how about a bachelors? |
| 22:15.20 | blau | im gonna apply for here http://www.google.com/jobs/lunar_job.html |
| 22:15.24 | vol | Is that good enough for elgoog? |
| 22:15.26 | Chainfire | seriously my teachers were complete noobs, hehe |
| 22:15.40 | Chainfire | (half of them didnt know the subjects they were teaching :/) |
| 22:15.47 | vol | such as? |
| 22:15.59 | blau | vol, theres a few positions that seem ok with bachelors |
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| 22:16.27 | Chainfire | we'd have network folks trying to teach us logic and collections, but they didnt know anything about it so they just read the book to us... wtf |
| 22:16.38 | vol | ah |
| 22:16.41 | vol | what school? |
| 22:16.46 | Chainfire | that sort of shit was all over the place |
| 22:16.48 | blau | i thought most of my professors were great |
| 22:16.52 | vol | devry? :P |
| 22:16.59 | Chainfire | nah a dutch college |
| 22:17.03 | blau | esp compared to the non cs/se classes |
| 22:17.04 | Chainfire | Fontys |
| 22:17.32 | Chainfire | i tried picking it up again at another university, but by that time I was making too much bloody money selling software :D |
| 22:17.38 | blau | lol chain |
| 22:17.44 | blau | i still dont feel like im making enough |
| 22:18.02 | Chainfire | well its never enough is it |
| 22:18.09 | vol | Rutgers had some fantastic professors, and some professors that were research professors so they had the TA teach the class |
| 22:18.17 | vol | so, I can kind of feel your pain |
| 22:18.23 | vol | but the good professors made it worth it :) |
| 22:18.30 | blau | i almost went to rutgers |
| 22:18.38 | Chainfire | yeah the second university had great teachers though, i was just to bummed out to get really into it, and as I said I was already making a lot of cash |
| 22:18.40 | vol | the Computer Graphics professor was so good that the entire class got him a thank you card : ) |
| 22:18.49 | Chainfire | I did study Astrophysics after that for the fun of it, though |
| 22:19.05 | blau | vol, cool |
| 22:19.06 | Chainfire | haha nice |
| 22:19.16 | blau | most of the kids in my uni hated our professors |
| 22:19.29 | blau | and most of them sucked at cs and se |
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| 22:19.47 | blau | the kids, not the professors |
| 22:19.52 | KNY | there isn't much better in school than a good professor who makes material interesting, fun, and knows his shit |
| 22:20.00 | vol | yeah |
| 22:20.04 | Chainfire | true that |
| 22:20.08 | blau | yup |
| 22:20.18 | blau | my HCI professor was the best |
| 22:20.21 | Chainfire | thats what drew me to astrophysics... we got nobel prize winning teachers :) |
| 22:20.25 | vol | the graphics professor would actually hang out in the lab 6 hours before a big assignment was due to answer last minute questions |
| 22:22.10 | Chainfire | still pisses me off though... if my first college had been good, i'd have a masters now :) |
| 22:23.33 | Chainfire | time for some chow! laters. |
| 22:24.50 | blau | later |
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| 22:27.09 | clicke | sigh... job seaching while at work feels sleazy |
| 22:27.15 | *** join/#android jota- (n=jota@190.6.0.180) |
| 22:27.26 | androoid | pretty |
| 22:27.41 | jbq | luckily, IRC at work is fine ;-) |
| 22:27.58 | clicke | heh |
| 22:28.34 | blau | lol |
| 22:28.42 | blau | i try to troll for jobs on irc while at work |
| 22:29.15 | jbq | heh |
| 22:30.30 | clicke | I think I am tired of the programming/software engineering career |
| 22:30.50 | *** join/#android jexe (n=jesseboy@static-64-115-213-78.isp.broadviewnet.net) |
| 22:31.10 | jbq | My wife keeps telling me I should become a shepherd in the greek mountains... and she's actually serious. |
| 22:31.38 | clicke | well you wont have to shave every morning, so thats a plus |
| 22:31.59 | jbq | I already don't shave every morning! |
| 22:32.04 | jbq | I barely shave every month |
| 22:32.07 | clicke | and the sheep... well nevermind |
| 22:32.24 | ttuttle | shaves before interviews, and that's about it. |
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| 22:36.17 | blau | google |
| 22:36.30 | ionstorm | scroogle |
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| 22:40.47 | tripps | jbq, will the IMF/IME be the framework to support finger gestures on the touch screen as shortcuts, etc.? |
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| 22:41.15 | jbq | tripps: I don't know which IMEs are in the pipeline other that what's mentioned on the roadmap. |
| 22:47.41 | tripps | jbq, cool. i would really like to see gestures as part of the way to navigate around apps and between apps |
| 22:48.04 | tripps | i presume multitouch gestures would not be implemented due to jesus phone IP issues? |
| 22:48.37 | jbq | (no comment) |
| 22:48.42 | tripps | lol |
| 22:49.48 | jbq | I know they're not in the platform guidelines, and I know that not all touch panels support it, but anything beyond that would be extrapolation from my part. |
| 22:49.56 | tripps | of course i also presume that i could, given the api, create my own multi-touch gestures to do what I choose . . . . . |
| 22:50.28 | tripps | and just look over my shoulder to make sure Jobs isn't running after me with attorneys in tow :) |
| 22:50.49 | *** join/#android guerby (n=guerby@33.196.98-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 22:51.31 | Zelig_ | Well, I'm now confident that playing noises result in sufficient chassis vibration that the accelerometers register several M/s even if the bloody thing is just sitting on a bench. |
| 22:51.58 | tripps | Zelig_, wow that sensitive? cool! |
| 22:52.27 | Zelig_ | Grumble, I think uncool. |
| 22:52.34 | Zelig_ | My saber app notices something has moved once, |
| 22:52.43 | Zelig_ | and then continues "swinging" ad infinitum. |
| 22:53.01 | *** part/#android fleeting|work (n=fleeting@rrcs-24-173-30-178.sw.biz.rr.com) |
| 22:53.04 | Zelig_ | Need some kind of low-pass filter.. |
| 22:53.13 | tripps | Zelig_, ah . . . so have to write some filter function of some sort |
| 22:53.17 | kRutOn | So is there a way to use the "adb ppp" thing or is it just broken |
| 22:53.19 | Zelig_ | I don't care about accelerations at 100hz. |
| 22:53.33 | Zelig_ | and I don't think I have that visibility. |
| 22:53.41 | Zelig_ | I'm firing on ;onSensorChanged events. |
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| 22:53.58 | tripps | Zelig_, that would be cool if they did make that detail available |
| 22:54.02 | spammy | hey all |
| 22:54.51 | spammy | anyone in here use android on something other than a G1? |
| 22:54.53 | Zelig_ | I need to set the damn thing to making noises off in a corner for an hour or so, and collect stats on the accel rates it causes. |
| 22:55.11 | tripps | Zelig_, you could use it for earthquake detection ;) |
| 22:55.16 | Zelig_ | plppth. |
| 22:55.30 | Zelig_ | O LOOK It's QUAKING here on this SAND SPIT we call Florida. |
| 22:55.41 | Zelig_ | famous for tectonic activity, Gainesville is. |
| 22:55.50 | *** join/#android thesquib (n=thesquib@202-160-48-164.knossos.net.nz) |
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| 22:57.01 | Zelig_ | Anybody have opinions on the very most effieicnt way to get some update on the screen? |
| 22:57.38 | Zelig_ | Is the setText for some region just the best? |
| 22:58.53 | spammy | unfortunatly I don't know enough about programming android to anwser that question |
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| 23:01.34 | ionstorm | isnt java harder than python |
| 23:01.36 | *** join/#android `vip (n=denied@m575e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 23:01.42 | vol | marginally |
| 23:02.00 | ionstorm | i can grasp python but android java is annoying me to learn it |
| 23:02.17 | spammy | I really like java.....I was curious if anyone knew anything about Market and when it will be available for non G1 phones |
| 23:02.22 | vol | ionstorm: I personally find java a lot more logical. If you're used to C++ and such, it's pretty natural |
| 23:02.31 | vol | spammy: probably when another Android phone comes out :P |
| 23:02.41 | spammy | well that sucks |
| 23:02.46 | spammy | i've got another android phone |
| 23:02.52 | spammy | im running android on my HTC touch |
| 23:02.54 | ionstorm | I need to find better tutorials on coding for android |
| 23:03.01 | thesquib | in j2me a repaint/paint does not wipe the canvas.. Is there a similar method in the Android APIs to draw to the screen without clearing everything? |
| 23:03.14 | ionstorm | the google docs suck to me, maybe cuz I never messed w/java |
| 23:03.26 | spammy | I was just searching the API for a repaint() but couldn't find anyhting similar |
| 23:03.49 | vol | spammy: invalidate |
| 23:03.50 | spammy | are you guys coding in Eclipse? |
| 23:03.59 | vol | yes, I'm using eclipse |
| 23:04.06 | *** join/#android Chainfire (n=Chainfir@unaffiliated/chainfire) |
| 23:04.07 | spammy | that is one wonderfull tool |
| 23:04.17 | vol | thesquib: invalidate has args for void and rectangle |
| 23:04.22 | vol | so you can specify what part of the screen you want to update |
| 23:04.33 | spammy | nice |
| 23:04.54 | blau | eclipse rulesss |
| 23:05.01 | thesquib | vol: that requires "knowledge" of what needs redrawing.. |
| 23:05.13 | spammy | just call invalidate() |
| 23:05.18 | spammy | it does the entire view |
| 23:05.32 | vol | thesquib: as opposed to.... |
| 23:05.56 | vol | oh, you just want to draw directly over top of what's already there? |
| 23:06.29 | thesquib | Yup |
| 23:06.56 | thesquib | And if I wanted to clear it, then I might clear a rectangle (for example) by setting the color to white and drawing over it. |
| 23:06.58 | vol | hmmm, I don't know offhand. There might be something in the docs. |
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| 23:07.24 | thesquib | cool thanks, I'll keep looking |
| 23:07.28 | spammy | so nobody with a rooted phone can grab me the market.apk? :) |
| 23:07.39 | *** part/#android ismarc (n=mbrace@dhcp-216-12-248-83.aus0.tx.us.corp.wayport.net) |
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| 23:08.01 | vol | well, the way it works as I recall is that onDraw gets called, and the canvas may or may not have a bounding rectangle (outside of which draws are ignored) |
| 23:08.13 | vol | so, you pretty much always want to pretend that you're drawing to a fresh screen |
| 23:15.29 | blau | i swear theres more phones with full qwerty than t9 now |
| 23:18.27 | jt436 | if you don't clear the screen in onDraw then calling invalidate() will not make things disappear |
| 23:18.27 | ionstorm | i can type faster with t9 lol |
| 23:18.42 | jt436 | thesquib: its just like paint in J2ME |
| 23:18.47 | ionstorm | been so fuqn used to t9 |
| 23:18.53 | jt436 | you override onDraw to do what you want |
| 23:20.15 | languish | *sigh* When is google going to enable logins from GAFYD on other google service, like picasa? |
| 23:20.48 | languish | It's awesome we can use it to log in to the G1, but then have to use a separate gmail login for everything else |
| 23:20.55 | spikebike | heh |
| 23:20.57 | spikebike | ya |
| 23:21.02 | spikebike | I wish they would just support openid |
| 23:21.10 | jmo | you can create an account to log in to those other services |
| 23:21.16 | jmo | it's just a different account |
| 23:21.21 | languish | right, that's the issue |
| 23:21.34 | jmo | yeah |
| 23:22.39 | languish | It's not critical but it's very annoying |
| 23:22.53 | languish | and wasteful :/ |
| 23:23.02 | *** join/#android ahaberlacho (n=adam@jenny.mediariffic.com) |
| 23:23.11 | jmo | but you can use the same email address for that I mean (not sure if you knew), even if it's a GAFYD email |
| 23:23.32 | languish | same email address for what? |
| 23:23.37 | *** join/#android npelly (n=npelly@nat/google/x-04fe5a58c5e161b2) |
| 23:23.43 | blau | i can type over 40 wpm with my g1 |
| 23:24.10 | languish | I can't log in to picasaweb with the GAFYD login, or a number of the other google services. |
| 23:24.20 | jmo | you can sign up for an account for picasa, etc, that uses an GAFYD email. There are two accounts created -- one owned by your domain admin, and one that's just keyed off any valid email address. |
| 23:25.13 | languish | yes, but when I use related services that link the email address, it will show the gmail, not the GAFYD address. |
| 23:25.13 | jmo | click the "Create an account now" link below the sign in box, and create an account using your email address from the GAFYD domain. |
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| 23:25.54 | languish | ah, I see, hmm hang on |
| 23:25.58 | jmo | if you log out of the gmail account, it won't show them. but then you have two accounts on picasa, one with gmail and one with your gafyd account |
| 23:26.33 | jmo | (btw, I have this problem too, I have an @google.com, an @android.com, my own domain, and a regular gmail account, it's really frustrating) |
| 23:29.37 | languish | I can imagine |
| 23:31.48 | blau | i want a google.com email address |
| 23:32.14 | *** part/#android osmosis (n=steven@63.139.86.3) |
| 23:32.14 | clicke | you have to hug someone for that too |
| 23:32.24 | blau | clicke: you want some hugs? |
| 23:32.26 | blau | hugs clicke |
| 23:32.50 | clicke | I need to be deloused! |
| 23:32.58 | thesquib | jt436 - thanks |
| 23:33.00 | blau | i dont delouse |
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| 23:33.47 | savid | I'm finding it hard to drag icons to the left-side of the "desktop".. does anyone else notice this? |
| 23:34.18 | clicke | phonetop? |
| 23:34.55 | *** join/#android mike (n=mikechan@nat/google/x-e83b3c88e5b24529) |
| 23:34.56 | blau | i have |
| 23:35.24 | *** join/#android invain (n=invain@c190015.sait.samsung.co.kr) |
| 23:35.24 | blau | both sides |
| 23:35.40 | blau | its awkward |
| 23:35.47 | savid | yeah, seems like the left side is harder for me |
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| 23:38.34 | ttuttle | savid: yes |
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| 23:39.38 | spikebike | speaking of which |
| 23:39.43 | spikebike | what are people doing for screen protection? |
| 23:39.52 | pwnage | hi everyone, can anyone remember how we clear the marketplace cache? |
| 23:40.12 | pwnage | ive just ordered a bodyguardz protector, will let you know what its like when it arrives |
| 23:40.32 | languish | spikebike, nothing. romainguy was correct, the screen is pretty resilient |
| 23:40.42 | languish | Shock protection is more of a concern |
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| 23:41.08 | spikebike | heh |
| 23:41.21 | spikebike | I'm hard on devices, I definitely want screen protection |
| 23:41.31 | blau | if i do currenttime in millis divided by the number of millis in a day and drop the remainder |
| 23:41.32 | languish | out of the 9 guys at our office that have G1's, 4 have already killed them by dropping them from low heights (accidentally) even on to carpet |
| 23:41.39 | spikebike | ugh |
| 23:41.41 | spikebike | damn dude |
| 23:41.41 | blau | then multiple my number of millis in a day ill get the current day? |
| 23:41.52 | spikebike | a case seems almost impossible |
| 23:42.05 | spikebike | I have er, 6-7 friends with them |
| 23:42.09 | spikebike | none have died so far |
| 23:42.21 | *** part/#android vrmad1 (n=vrmad1@74-131-99-164.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 23:42.34 | spikebike | er 9 actually |
| 23:42.41 | spikebike | I wonder how many they have sold |
| 23:42.44 | languish | but the screens, they don't scratch easily. I'm wondering if the surface is minorly self healing (viscuous) that hairline scratches just reabsorb |
| 23:43.05 | spikebike | I use the sock religiously when it's not in active use |
| 23:43.10 | spikebike | I hope that would help |
| 23:43.15 | languish | I don't use it at all |
| 23:43.22 | spikebike | Although I do occasionally use it while riding my bike |
| 23:43.25 | languish | I took romainguy at his word and abuse it |
| 23:44.04 | languish | stuck it in my bag a few times with a bunch of crap, including my keys |
| 23:44.06 | languish | no scratches |
| 23:44.06 | blau | i lost my sock i think |
| 23:44.11 | blau | i love that socky thin |
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| 23:44.53 | languish | the only scratches on it, came from the factory on the inside back cover, and from the scraping on the back of the screen from opening/closing |
| 23:45.00 | spikebike | I use a fanny pack, keep lots of shit in it, and bike around 10 miles a day with it on |
| 23:45.31 | michaelnovakjr__ | i haven't heard the word fanny pack in years |
| 23:45.31 | spikebike | If I had a choice for an iphone like device running android I'd probably switch.... just to be more durable |
| 23:45.54 | spikebike | er, man purse... whatever they are called |
| 23:46.41 | languish | lawl |
| 23:46.46 | Fnord^ | no keyboard? |
| 23:46.55 | languish | manpurses aren't the same as fannypacks |
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| 23:47.32 | languish | I've been looking for a decent bag that's slim, but they all look like murses |
| 23:47.46 | languish | I'm just not that stylish I guess |
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| 23:48.07 | *** part/#android stadlero (n=stadler@nat/google/x-185b9e9bfcae8565) |
| 23:48.51 | spikebike | dunno, seems like iphone folks can type about as fast as I can |
| 23:48.54 | spikebike | (on the g1) |
| 23:49.25 | spikebike | pockets are basically unusable while biking, and I bike 4+ times a day |
| 23:49.36 | spikebike | (I don't usually drive) |
| 23:49.44 | Gigawatts | but some just done like the non-feel of a touch screen keyboard (myself included) |
| 23:50.15 | spikebike | ya |
| 23:50.27 | spikebike | I don't usually type a ton on the g1 |
| 23:51.19 | Gigawatts | ive tried typing on an iphone a few times (my sisters), and i couldnt get the hang of it |
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| 23:51.42 | languish | yeah, I didn't get the iphone because of the lack of tactile comfort with the on-screen keyboard |
| 23:51.42 | spikebike | I wonder how many g1s will survive for 2-3 years |
| 23:51.55 | blau | love mibbit |
| 23:51.59 | languish | though I do need an onscreen kbd for verticle |
| 23:52.03 | herriojr | I'm kind of curious, how does google certify a phone as Android compliant? |
| 23:52.15 | languish | herriojr, you're assuming they even do |
| 23:52.18 | blau | u wont be using a g1 in 2 years |
| 23:52.29 | Poohba | ok. now back to this. is there a way or are there any plans to allow file attachments to email with G1? |
| 23:52.29 | spikebike | my last phone lasted for 6 |
| 23:52.33 | Gigawatts | i still need to get over to the tmob store and get my hands on one of those things, see how it feels and such |
| 23:52.36 | spikebike | and I have a daughter ;-) |
| 23:52.53 | blau | g1 feels like a fancy sidekick |
| 23:52.59 | spikebike | poohba it already works doesn't it? |
| 23:53.04 | Gigawatts | yeah, never handeled one of those either |
| 23:53.04 | andyross | Poohba: it was reported here that the image-only limitation in the email clients was a T-Mobile requirement. So probably no, unless it's a 3rd party application |
| 23:53.08 | Poohba | spikebike: only for pictures |
| 23:53.12 | blau | i havent used a phone for more than a year since sidekick 2 |
| 23:53.29 | *** join/#android Laz (n=Laz1@28.184.119.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 23:53.31 | spikebike | poohba oh, er, check out one of the filebrowsers and see if they have a share button |
| 23:53.44 | Poohba | damn. they should have just used a filesize or filetype limitation. thats wack! |
| 23:53.50 | languish | herriojr, whoever wants to sell a device with Android on it, just gets the source code, and tailors it for their own device. The G1 is not googles device, it's an HTC device T-Mobile had tailored for Android. |
| 23:54.03 | spikebike | poohba er, there's an attach under menu |
| 23:54.07 | languish | So the G1 is "certified" by T-Mobile for their own purposes |
| 23:54.25 | languish | Google's just in the mix to get their platform going |
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| 23:55.11 | *** mode/#android [+o cbeust] by ChanServ |
| 23:55.17 | languish | btw, this is the bag I tend to carry. cheap, but looks good http://tinyurl.com/6chfgh |
| 23:55.32 | b0nn | hi guys, I tried to upload an app to the android emulator and get INSTALL_PARSE_FAILED_NO_CERTIFICATES |
| 23:55.40 | spikebike | $130 = cheap? |
| 23:55.52 | b0nn | I thought that ant automagicaly gave me a debugging certificate? |
| 23:55.52 | languish | spikebike, for a mens leather shoulder bag, yes |
| 23:56.14 | languish | spikebike, I got it for $60 or $80 anyway, i forget which |
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| 23:58.03 | Gary|thinkpad | Anyone else have a contact added twice when adding from an SMS message? |
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| 23:58.19 | Gary|thinkpad | like, someone sent me a phone number, I held it down, added it was a contactand it showed up twice |
| 23:58.30 | spikebike | sure it wasn't already in your contacts? |
| 23:59.26 | Gary|thinkpad | positive |
| 23:59.46 | Gary|thinkpad | *added it as a contact |
| 23:59.50 | Gary|thinkpad | I fail at multi tasking heh |
