| 00:15.09 | chomchom | No but I'm interested to hear how you have got no with it since the reverse geo coding stuff was something that we all wanted |
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| 00:53.03 | chomchom | romainguy are you around? |
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| 00:54.01 | umdk1d4 | hmm |
| 00:54.02 | Razec | hi all |
| 00:54.16 | chomchom | waves |
| 00:54.31 | umdk1d4 | is there a way to force a single View to rotate 90\degr? |
| 00:54.40 | umdk1d4 | so instead of making the entire activity rotate, only a subset of the views |
| 00:56.22 | chomchom | A frameLayout? I'll have a look |
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| 01:17.49 | chomchom | Its not clear from the layouts if you can do that but it makes sense. You can certainly do it progromatically looking at the sensor demo under OS in the demos |
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| 01:35.21 | chomchom | I tried a demo quickly with some embedded linear views and framelayouts and they all were rotated to the same orientation as their parent |
| 01:35.50 | chomchom | So if you manage it through just xml I'd like to hear about how you did it or maybe see an example |
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| 02:15.41 | Razec | see ya |
| 02:19.02 | chomchom | nighty |
| 02:20.26 | chomchom | How could I both list elements and include a mapview within an activity considering that I can only extend the functionality of one of them? |
| 02:20.47 | chomchom | Is there a way to embed two activities within a frame? |
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| 05:14.51 | gambler | what is the smallest, simplest good open source Inversion of Control framework |
| 05:14.54 | gambler | oops |
| 05:14.56 | gambler | wrong channel |
| 05:15.21 | muthu | pico |
| 05:15.34 | gambler | aight |
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| 05:35.32 | cbeust_ | Go wit Guice |
| 05:35.37 | cbeust_ | with* |
| 05:36.23 | muthu | seam is also nice |
| 05:36.41 | cbeust_ | Don't use Seam if all you need is a DI framework |
| 05:37.06 | muthu | agree, seam has a lot more |
| 05:38.14 | muthu | cbeust_: testng under active development? |
| 05:38.37 | cbeust_ | It's slowed down but still active, yes |
| 05:39.00 | muthu | great job on tesng |
| 05:39.09 | cbeust_ | Thanks! |
| 05:39.33 | muthu | any chance we get tesng for android ;) |
| 05:39.46 | cbeust_ | hehe |
| 05:39.48 | cbeust_ | We thought about it of course |
| 05:39.54 | cbeust_ | but I recommended against it, it's too heavy for that |
| 05:40.07 | muthu | yeah, was a bit surprised about junit support |
| 05:42.03 | muthu | what's the best way to test android projects? |
| 05:42.41 | cbeust_ | We have a full instrumentation framework for that, part of the SDK |
| 05:43.07 | muthu | but the docs sux |
| 05:55.30 | jasta | muthu: didn't you just tell me it was pointless to test? |
| 05:55.50 | muthu | jasta: yes, given the current state of the instrumentation framework |
| 05:56.24 | jasta | well actually i'd say except for the limitation i found, it seems quite usable. |
| 05:56.28 | jasta | and very sophisticated |
| 05:56.41 | jasta | which is why it's so frustrating, really |
| 05:56.59 | muthu | yeah, so there are limitations |
| 05:57.19 | jasta | i shouldn't even say limitation: it seems to merely be a bug that should be fixed. |
| 05:57.33 | jasta | but i don't know enough about it, and apparently neither does Google. |
| 05:57.56 | muthu | right |
| 05:58.14 | jasta | still i wouldn't call it a waste of time. i don't know where you got that attitude. |
| 05:58.29 | muthu | haha |
| 05:58.34 | muthu | its a waste of time for me! |
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| 06:00.50 | muthu | today is the beginning.. |
| 06:00.56 | muthu | of something big... |
| 06:01.05 | jasta | oh yeah? |
| 06:01.19 | muthu | ooh yeah |
| 06:01.30 | jasta | actually, i don't care what you have to say. |
| 06:01.51 | muthu | really? |
| 06:02.05 | muthu | k, listen |
| 06:02.15 | muthu | i'm going to tell you something |
| 06:02.57 | muthu | jasta: let me ask your opinion |
| 06:03.15 | muthu | if you look at the top 10, there are a couple of shopping apps that won |
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| 07:50.48 | umdk1d3 | continues to wonder about rotating Views regardless of Activity rotation |
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| 08:00.52 | anno^da_ | wonders if it is possible to use GPL licensed icons in a closed source project. |
| 08:02.52 | cutmasta | mornin |
| 08:03.20 | umdk1d3 | hmm are image files dynamically or statically linked |
| 08:05.33 | anno^da_ | well in the case of image files I dont really know how to decide if thery are dynamically oder statically |
| 08:07.20 | umdk1d3 | might check if the icons are under multiple licenses |
| 08:09.05 | anno^da_ | yeah well I'm just walking through the different licenses and icon sets. Talking about the following CC license: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/ I would assume that it can not be used in closed source projects. The point is if the sentence " or build upon this work" considers the whole project as my "work". |
| 08:13.01 | umdk1d3 | tango i take it? ;) |
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| 08:13.20 | anno^da_ | Yeah for example tango but there are a lot of other ones |
| 08:13.30 | anno^da_ | in Apache 2 projectes it is no problem |
| 08:13.42 | anno^da_ | but closed source hmm well I dont know |
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| 08:14.27 | umdk1d3 | "It is also possible for proprietary closed source applications to use Tango Desktop Project icons, provided they follow the license directives. Examples highlighted by the Tango Showroom include VMware Workstation 6 and Medsphere OpenVista CIS." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tango_Desktop_Project |
| 08:14.58 | umdk1d3 | ive always thought of it as any derivative icons you create go back to the project |
| 08:15.04 | umdk1d3 | but it doesnt have any impact on the rest of your program |
| 08:15.11 | umdk1d3 | or other privately-created icons you might use |
| 08:15.52 | anno^da_ | Yeah ok. I was just wondering about the above mentioned sentence. |
| 08:16.13 | anno^da_ | What means built upon this work. :) |
| 08:16.55 | anno^da_ | If I use them in a commercial project I'm builing upon the icons. Without the icons I wouldnt have a working GUI. :) |
| 08:18.14 | umdk1d3 | mmm nope |
| 08:18.34 | umdk1d3 | your not creating a derivative work from the icons, your using them verbatim |
| 08:19.36 | anno^da_ | ok. So the term "work" is fixed to the icons. |
| 08:20.21 | umdk1d3 | thats my interpritation, yes |
| 08:20.30 | umdk1d3 | and from the wikipedia quote above, i think its the general understanding as well |
| 08:21.02 | anno^da_ | Yeah after reading through the tango mailing list it seems so :) |
| 08:23.37 | umdk1d3 | wonders where the drawables for tab backgrounds are hiding |
| 08:25.39 | moccuo | android is awesome |
| 08:27.19 | anno^da_ | it is. :) But it's not awesome that the HTC Dream is not coming to Europe in October |
| 08:27.49 | moccuo | aah, thats rough |
| 08:28.34 | anno^da_ | (this mentioned a member of HTC at the IFA in Berlin) |
| 08:28.58 | anno^da_ | "They want to minimize the risk" |
| 08:34.34 | Miek | anno^da_: that sucks :( |
| 08:35.41 | tomgibara | anno^da_: Did they mention any timeframe for a europe release? |
| 08:36.36 | snadge | im going to be in the usa in november.. it will be available there? |
| 08:37.01 | snadge | im from australia and doubt they will release here same time as usa |
| 08:38.23 | anno^da_ | tomgibara: Not really. |
| 08:40.24 | anno^da_ | From what they said I dont expect it to happen in 2008. But perhaps the success in the US will change their minds. |
| 08:40.56 | tomgibara | I'm interested to see (1) how rapidly phones become available in territories outside North America and (2) how Google structure the ADCII if there are territories without phones. |
| 08:41.21 | anno^da_ | 2) can become very important |
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| 08:42.02 | anno^da_ | If they dont want to upset coders again they should make them available as soon as possible for countries outside the us |
| 08:42.21 | anno^da_ | (- coder + developers :) ) |
| 08:43.31 | anno^da_ | From my point of view the markets outside the US are a lot more interesting for Android enabled phones. |
| 08:45.06 | tomgibara | I don't think that's entirely true, on the basis that the US mobile telecom market is so degenerate - Andriod and the iPhone are very important in the US |
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| 08:45.28 | tomgibara | But Android's largest potential markets certainly exist outside the US |
| 08:46.01 | tomgibara | Also remember that (iirc) approx. half the developers in the first challenge were from the US. |
| 08:46.42 | anno^da_ | Ok thats true. |
| 08:47.09 | snadge | thats cos.. where else but in america, can you afford to enter a competition.. for a device that doesnt even exist yet |
| 08:47.19 | snadge | hehe |
| 08:47.59 | anno^da_ | Mhh I dont think that it has something to do with the US itself |
| 08:48.05 | tomgibara | snadge: There are lots of reasons |
| 08:48.34 | anno^da_ | I would say: No other than Google can afford entering such a competition. |
| 08:49.49 | tomgibara | Greater density of software developers, more disposable income/time, and simple cultural bias, perhaps even implicit support for US companies. |
| 08:54.05 | anno^da_ | But in contrast you have locked up networks which dont really fit tothether with an open system Android wants to be. |
| 08:55.11 | snadge | i kind of see android as a trojan horse in the american market |
| 08:55.25 | snadge | the networks will open up AFTER it is released.. not before |
| 08:55.41 | snadge | and you can bet they will do everything to try and make google strip features from android that they dont approve of |
| 08:57.15 | snadge | theres nothing stopping these features being added back in again after launch |
| 08:57.45 | anno^da_ | Yeah I'm with you in that point. I just think that it would be easier to start Android outside the US. Or let me say it in a different way. It would be no problem to start it outside the US as well. |
| 08:58.37 | snadge | im amused at the impact it will have in the mainstream media |
| 08:58.41 | anno^da_ | And yeah they will try to remove the features (like video recording atm) but they wont succeed. |
| 08:58.57 | snadge | here in australia for example, they didnt shut up about google street view for about 2 days |
| 08:59.10 | anno^da_ | I'm worried how easy it will be to install custom builts of Android on the real hardware. |
| 08:59.20 | romainguy | anno^da_: missing features have nothing to do with carriers |
| 08:59.27 | anno^da_ | romainguy: ok. |
| 08:59.40 | romainguy | it's just a question of time, resources, priority, etc. |
| 08:59.45 | anno^da_ | Just thought it was a |
| 08:59.50 | snadge | theres probably some reality setting in.. too much to do in a small amount of time |
| 09:00.10 | snadge | easier to concentrate the same amount of resources on a smaller scope.. to end up with a higher quality result |
| 09:00.32 | snadge | which can be added to easily later |
| 09:00.56 | anno^da_ | romainguy: A different question. Will it be possible to install custom builts on the devices. |
| 09:01.21 | snadge | of course.. but think of it in exactly the same way people think of linux today |
| 09:01.41 | snadge | when you report a problem or a bug.. the first thing thats established is what version you're running, and if theres any custom patchsets etc |
| 09:02.13 | anno^da_ | snadge: Well on my linux machine I dont have a read only memory storing my distribution. |
| 09:02.16 | snadge | if the answer is yes, then you're asked to reproduce the problem with a standard release.. if you can't, you are probably then told to get stuffed |
| 09:03.10 | snadge | it wont be rom though, im presuming its some kind of flash memory |
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| 09:04.46 | anno^da_ | Well just read that. The reason was a possibiliy to recover the system. But I dont really believe that. |
| 09:10.38 | snadge | makes sense.. go back to version 1.0.. aka, holy shit i've bricked my brand new expensive phone |
| 09:10.49 | snadge | hehe |
| 09:11.27 | snadge | and to then have the manufacturer turn around and say "sorry buddy.. we dont cover dodgy self installed hacks" |
| 09:12.24 | snadge | or charge you $60 to "reset" it |
| 09:16.21 | anno^da_ | Well and thats the point I dont understand. On the desktop system you dont need that mechanism. And it works pretty fine for millions of users. |
| 09:18.06 | snadge | the equivalent on the desktop would be to flash your BIOS |
| 09:18.21 | snadge | and brick your motherboard.. this is why some motherboards come with a spare bios thats in rom |
| 09:18.38 | snadge | most people dont update their bios.. they're very simple, and generally dont need updating |
| 09:18.48 | umdk1d3 | people brick winmo phones here all the time |
| 09:18.53 | umdk1d3 | and then reflash them |
| 09:19.22 | umdk1d3 | even from home over usb |
| 09:20.11 | anno^da_ | snadge: Ok that is true but I wouldnt compare the OS to the BIOS. |
| 09:22.04 | snadge | in a mobile phone.. the difference between the OS and the BIOS is less defined (i would think) |
| 09:22.35 | umdk1d3 | there is still a bios |
| 09:22.46 | umdk1d3 | same as in pc--its just enough to bootstrap into the firmware image |
| 09:22.58 | umdk1d3 | probably where the low-level splash screen is stored too |
| 09:23.19 | snadge | right.. so you can think of reflashing your phone.. as updating the kernel.. and whatever other system libraries etc are installed |
| 09:24.12 | snadge | but if you wreck your phone, you still need a way to get back to a working system.. in a pc, you can insert storage medium and boot off it |
| 09:24.26 | umdk1d3 | also, that lowlevel bios knows just enough to watch usb cable and receive an new firmware image to overwrite whats on the device |
| 09:24.40 | umdk1d3 | so even if you bork a firmware upgrade, or it gets corrupt, the bios can still help you write a new one |
| 09:25.14 | snadge | does htc's other phones (eg the tytn II specifically) use arm cpu also? |
| 09:25.32 | umdk1d3 | im assuming theyll take this approach, because other mobile devices have had good luck with its model--specifically the n810 |
| 09:25.44 | umdk1d3 | umm not sure, i think a lot of winmo phones are arm based |
| 09:26.07 | umdk1d3 | but i dont think it will be easy to just hack android over to existing devices |
| 09:26.08 | snadge | was wondering why the decision to go with arm.. but if winmo does it, that makes a lot more sense |
| 09:26.50 | umdk1d3 | arm is used on a lot of embedded and mobile stuff because of power usage iirc |
| 09:27.11 | umdk1d3 | "dominant in the mobile electronics market, where low power consumption is a critical design goal" --wikipedia |
| 09:28.17 | Miek | snadge: the tytn ii uses arm |
| 09:31.06 | umdk1d3 | gahhh /me rips hair out |
| 09:31.20 | umdk1d3 | this would be alot easier if i could rotate individual View s |
| 09:44.16 | romainguy | umdk1d3: it's not very hard to rotate views |
| 09:44.22 | romainguy | unless you want to rotate the touch events as well |
| 09:47.44 | umdk1d3 | oh? |
| 09:48.11 | umdk1d3 | for example, i have a listview in a landscape Activity |
| 09:48.27 | umdk1d3 | and it would be awesome for it to appear like it does in a normal portrait Activity |
| 09:48.47 | umdk1d3 | (there is other stuff in the landscape view that needs to be landscape) |
| 09:49.23 | umdk1d3 | and im kinda rewriting TabView to make the tabs run along the left-edge of landscape screen |
| 09:49.24 | romainguy | that sounds weird that you need to mix both landscape and portrait... |
| 09:49.43 | umdk1d3 | kicks stupid camera :P |
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| 10:54.10 | tomgibara | umdk1d3: The new Camera APIs really make everything much more difficult don't they :( |
| 10:57.14 | EQU | tomgibara: I don't agree with you :) now you have a jpg stream ( btw. with strange guy :) ), what ese you want ? |
| 10:57.21 | EQU | else* |
| 10:58.29 | tomgibara | EQU: I'm guessing that umdk1d3 is trying to write an app that uses the camera efficiently, without being in landscape |
| 10:58.44 | tomgibara | That sort of difficultly is just for starters |
| 10:59.09 | EQU | tomgibara: oh, i see, do yuo recognize this guy ? |
| 10:59.23 | EQU | tomgibara: result of Camera.takePicture() ? |
| 11:00.03 | tomgibara | There's no way of getting byte data at a different resolution from that displayed either, which kills it for many sensible applications |
| 11:00.06 | tomgibara | EQU: I'm talking about camera previews |
| 11:01.59 | tomgibara | I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that no-one likes the new Camera preview capabilities |
| 11:02.43 | tomgibara | They add complexity for performance, but aren't powerful enough to do anything but the most simple tasks |
| 11:03.15 | tomgibara | I'd be happy if someone demonstrated that I'm wrong |
| 11:04.29 | EQU | tomgibara: maybe i'am wrog, but thera 2 functions |
| 11:04.41 | EQU | first: setPictureSize() - set size for taken picture |
| 11:05.06 | EQU | second: setPreviewSize() - set preview size :)| |
| 11:05.23 | EQU | so you want make for example a zoom ? |
| 11:06.13 | tomgibara | No, I want (amongst other things) to get callback data at a different resolution from that displayed on the surface. |
| 11:08.22 | EQU | tomgibara: i think, yours features are hidden at "set(String key, int value)" function :) |
| 11:08.43 | EQU | tomgibara: no documented at the momment :( |
| 11:13.33 | gambler | I need a reasonable aspectJ compiler that generates source code. Any ideas? I see at least 15 or so on the AOP wikipedia article. |
| 11:14.28 | gambler | The abc compiler has a java out option but the code is decompiled (instead of generated) and therefore ugly. |
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| 11:25.16 | Acsia | gm |
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| 12:42.39 | umdk1d3 | EQU: thats the boss from office space, right? |
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| 12:44.00 | umdk1d3 | tomgibara: part of the camera api changes i can understand |
| 12:44.11 | umdk1d3 | as they are trying to actually make it work reasonablly fast with actual hardware |
| 12:45.23 | tomgibara | umdk1d3: Yes, that's obvious - as I already stated above: They added complexity for performance |
| 12:45.43 | tomgibara | But what results is impractical |
| 12:45.54 | umdk1d3 | true |
| 12:46.00 | tomgibara | All of the inefficiency is then piled onto the application code instead |
| 12:46.14 | umdk1d3 | thats 1.0 for ya tho ;) |
| 12:47.57 | tomgibara | Only if you employ poor practices |
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| 13:00.55 | davidw | wow... this email from a 'phd candidate' wondering if there are any android phones |
| 13:01.12 | davidw | doesn't have a phd, but does know how to find things on the internet |
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| 13:03.11 | anno^da_ | :) |
| 13:03.23 | anno^da_ | I've read that as well. |
| 13:08.15 | gambler | maybe he is a lazy genius. linky? |
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| 13:23.55 | umdk1d3 | "Dear Kind Heart, I Am A Member Of The Royal Family Of Madeupistan And Have 2,000 Android Phones But Require Your Aid To Clear Them Rapidly Through Customs" |
| 13:26.13 | muthu | lol |
| 13:26.36 | umdk1d3 | hey muthu hows it goin :) |
| 13:26.47 | muthu | goin great |
| 13:26.59 | umdk1d3 | im havin a tough time staying motivated since thursday lol |
| 13:27.07 | muthu | haha |
| 13:27.38 | muthu | i know, millionaires are hard to get motivated ;) |
| 13:27.43 | umdk1d3 | holiday today tho ^.^ |
| 13:28.02 | muthu | oh, its a long weekend.. |
| 13:28.11 | umdk1d3 | yep labor day |
| 13:28.20 | muthu | cool |
| 13:28.26 | muthu | i'm working on something new |
| 13:28.34 | muthu | so motivation is aplenty! |
| 13:29.06 | umdk1d3 | hehe :) |
| 13:31.40 | muthu | right now, you should've got some deals |
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| 13:31.47 | muthu | anyone up yet? |
| 13:33.02 | umdk1d3 | theyre all sleeping in :P only 730am here atm |
| 13:33.55 | anno^da_ | Yeah I'm up |
| 13:34.03 | umdk1d3 | goes to find coffee |
| 13:34.06 | anno^da_ | the rest is sleeping silently :) |
| 13:40.52 | gambler | i think my windows PC just got owned again. I guess 3 virus scanners isnt enough |
| 13:44.17 | muthu | windows sux |
| 13:44.41 | gambler | yep |
| 13:44.48 | muthu | my laptop is virus free for the last 3 years |
| 13:44.54 | muthu | one less thing to worry |
| 13:45.16 | gambler | I use it because I spread my desktop across 3 monitors and then vnc into my linux machines |
| 13:45.55 | muthu | i'm not using anything fancy |
| 13:46.08 | gambler | I wonder if linux multimon is there yet...I am getting sick of this |
| 13:46.16 | muthu | should be |
| 13:47.23 | muthu | and have seamlessly upgraded from fedora 6 to 9 |
| 13:47.47 | muthu | without any data loss |
| 13:48.26 | muthu | since switching to linux, its been fantastic |
| 13:49.24 | umdk1d3 | <3 linux |
| 13:49.40 | gambler | yeah its better for developers... Since im not doing my other thing anymore I probably can change back again... I used to be a hardcore linux user but I got pretty tired of some of the b.s. |
| 13:50.36 | cutmasta | are they old : http://gizmodo.com/5043836/more-htc-dream-pictures-leaked |
| 13:50.37 | cutmasta | ? |
| 13:50.40 | cutmasta | never saw them before |
| 13:51.07 | gambler | a few days |
| 13:52.05 | muthu | wonder whether htc dream will be available oct 18 in india |
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| 13:52.20 | gambler | I hate to say it but that phone looks really gay. |
| 13:52.36 | gambler | How are you meant to use the trackball with such a big phone |
| 13:54.21 | muthu | to me it looks functional |
| 13:55.17 | muthu | the best thing is its no way resembles iphone |
| 13:55.28 | umdk1d3 | yea esp a /real/ keyboard |
| 13:55.33 | gambler | I just hope more than one android phone comes out. |
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| 13:56.48 | muthu | yeah, that's the promise |
| 13:57.07 | muthu | is the sliding view in home screen available in the api? |
| 13:57.20 | umdk1d3 | the panning left/right? |
| 13:57.30 | muthu | no the pull up/down |
| 13:57.42 | muthu | where you have the app icons |
| 13:57.47 | umdk1d3 | oh hmm havent seen it anywhere |
| 13:57.52 | umdk1d3 | seems like a modified grid view |
| 13:58.01 | muthu | it would be a nice widget to use |
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| 14:14.04 | gambler | aspectJ should win an award for the least accessible source code for an open source project |
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| 14:23.46 | gambler | yay found it |
| 14:34.57 | muthu | most of the frameworks bundle them |
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| 15:32.57 | umdk1d3 | how do you show an overlayed search view at the top of your activity? |
| 15:33.09 | umdk1d3 | like in the maps app when you hit the search menu option |
| 15:33.18 | umdk1d3 | it darkens the map and shows the search above it |
| 15:37.34 | umdk1d3 | aha "The search UI is presented as a floating window and does not cause any change in the activity stack. " |
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| 15:48.26 | umdk1d3 | is starting to understand how android fits together |
| 15:48.36 | umdk1d3 | but man its hard to see |
| 15:49.14 | umdk1d3 | SearchManager doc page should be required reading for any serious android developer |
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| 15:56.20 | pandora-- | MORNIN! |
| 15:56.23 | pandora-- | ooh caps |
| 15:56.29 | pandora-- | and wrong channel! |
| 15:56.52 | pandora-- | well, i haven't done android in a few months, i suck |
| 15:59.01 | SanMehat | mornin |
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| 17:48.13 | umdk1d3 | hmm |
| 17:48.45 | umdk1d3 | what Intent should i use to properly show the android.intent.action.SEARCH singleTop searchbox? |
| 17:49.03 | umdk1d3 | just using the SEARCH action reverts to system-wide search |
| 17:49.26 | umdk1d3 | and specifying either the current class, or the target class that has the SEARCH intent-filter doesnt work |
| 17:50.14 | umdk1d3 | im using a null uri right now |
| 17:52.00 | umdk1d3 | aha looks like i should be using onSearchRequested(); instead of an intent |
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| 19:44.43 | trigatch4 | Hi everyone |
| 19:45.15 | trigatch4 | morrildl you around? |
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| 21:17.34 | bricode | Does Android have any window manager dependencies? |
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