| 00:01.06 | jasta | yeah, about to head home |
| 00:01.28 | jasta | i might not have time to play tho, my gf is getting off early today :( |
| 00:01.38 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 00:01.38 | Dougie187 | ok |
| 00:03.17 | Dougie187 | well i think i might hop on to bnet and play some |
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| 00:19.47 | zhobbs | I have a Parcelable[] p, all the members are MyObj, so I should be able to MyObj[] arr = (MyObj[]) p; right? |
| 00:19.59 | zhobbs | but getting class cast exception |
| 00:20.54 | romainguy | you can't do this in Java |
| 00:21.21 | zhobbs | hm |
| 00:21.44 | f00f- | each object in the array |
| 00:21.55 | zhobbs | Cause I go from MyObj[] to Parcelable, just can't get back unless I loop through huh? |
| 00:22.08 | romainguy | yes |
| 00:22.14 | f00f- | it's "one of those things" |
| 00:22.19 | romainguy | it makes sense |
| 00:22.29 | romainguy | what if your Parcelable[] contained { A, B, C } |
| 00:22.59 | romainguy | casting to A[] would not work but there would be no way to detect it until you access the elements |
| 00:23.10 | romainguy | and you would get a ClassCastException on a myParcel[i] |
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| 02:23.08 | _ProZaC_ | hi, is this channel about google andoid? |
| 02:23.11 | _ProZaC_ | hi, is this channel about google android? |
| 02:23.24 | zhobbs | _ProZaC_: yeah |
| 02:23.47 | _ProZaC_ | really? |
| 02:25.14 | zhobbs | yep |
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| 02:58.14 | gambler | has anyone tried to use sqlite with an ORM layer like Apache Cayenne? |
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| 07:22.49 | sleepydroid | good morning |
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| 12:37.00 | Dougie187 | Good Morning Everyone |
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| 13:30.20 | michaelnovakjr | howdy |
| 13:36.45 | Dougie187 | hows it going? |
| 13:41.56 | Dougie187 | brb |
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| 13:55.07 | zhobbs_ | http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/18/android-on-a-nokia-n95-captured-on-video/ |
| 13:57.24 | Zba_Phy | m3 :/ |
| 13:58.34 | Dougie187 | that has to be the worst video in the whole world. |
| 13:58.42 | Dougie187 | it looks like he took it with a cell phone |
| 13:58.47 | Dougie187 | or a web cam |
| 14:03.52 | michaelnovakjr | any news on an SDK? |
| 14:05.46 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 14:05.48 | Dougie187 | SDK? |
| 14:05.56 | Dougie187 | i dont even know what that is anymore |
| 14:06.26 | Dougie187 | (aka, no) |
| 14:12.00 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 14:12.34 | michaelnovakjr | i am working on another software project while waiting for the new sdk |
| 14:14.04 | Dougie187 | oh yeah? |
| 14:14.07 | Dougie187 | for android? |
| 14:14.11 | michaelnovakjr | nope |
| 14:14.22 | Dougie187 | whats it for? |
| 14:14.26 | michaelnovakjr | i have put android on hold while waiting for the new sdk |
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| 15:59.49 | michaelnovakjr | yo dougie187 |
| 16:12.26 | jasta | hey |
| 16:21.18 | michaelnovakjr | howdy jasta |
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| 16:53.12 | michaelnovakjr | http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=2567 |
| 16:53.24 | michaelnovakjr | ^^ Fennec |
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| 16:58.53 | michaelnovakjr | very quiet in here |
| 16:59.14 | eido | sneezes. |
| 17:00.00 | michaelnovakjr | howdy |
| 17:01.11 | yonkeltron | michaelnovakjr: interesting post |
| 17:04.33 | michaelnovakjr | yea, i hate the iphone |
| 17:07.46 | yonkeltron | michaelnovakjr: so do i....i dislike apple in general though |
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| 17:08.29 | michaelnovakjr | for anyone who is interested, i am creating androidnerds.com to host android development projects. |
| 17:08.31 | jasta | trendy crap :P |
| 17:08.45 | michaelnovakjr | there will be a choice of svn, git, and have Trac integration. |
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| 17:09.16 | michaelnovakjr | and a project email address @androidnerds.com |
| 17:09.55 | yonkeltron | michaelnovakjr: fascinating... |
| 17:10.02 | jasta | what's wrong w/ Google code? :) |
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| 17:10.11 | yonkeltron | is waiting on the integration of non-java languages |
| 17:10.32 | jasta | yonkeltron: you will be waiting for quite a long time. someone will have to do quite a lot of work to make that possible |
| 17:10.39 | michaelnovakjr | jasta, its not Trac :) |
| 17:10.59 | muthu | google code has poor project management integration |
| 17:11.09 | michaelnovakjr | Trac is excellent |
| 17:11.10 | jasta | that's actually true |
| 17:11.18 | jasta | though i have not used Trac before |
| 17:11.30 | michaelnovakjr | you should check it out |
| 17:12.04 | michaelnovakjr | it has great integration of your svn and tickets, milestones, roadmap, change history page, and a wiki |
| 17:12.22 | muthu | michaelnovakjr: androidnerds, cool name |
| 17:12.32 | michaelnovakjr | gracias |
| 17:12.44 | yonkeltron | jasta: i've heard that the jruby folks are mulling it over... |
| 17:12.55 | Guest20107 | hops in and hugs trac |
| 17:13.16 | jasta | yonkeltron: sure, but without a proper release with source, no serious porting effort can go anywhere. |
| 17:13.21 | michaelnovakjr | i'll offer hosting services free for open source projects |
| 17:13.45 | michaelnovakjr | ruby is a terrible language |
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| 17:14.13 | jasta | yonkeltron: the Android platform is tightly dependant on Java code paths, so a porting effort of another language will require extensive bindings to access that functionality |
| 17:14.25 | jasta | and as i said, without a proper release, that project can't happen |
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| 17:14.57 | romainguy | jasta: you can always port one of the many interpreters written in Java |
| 17:15.11 | romainguy | there's also a bunch of compilers that output bytecode from other languages |
| 17:15.46 | michaelnovakjr | romainguy, i just don't see the need for something like that. |
| 17:15.57 | romainguy | michaelnovakjr: I'm not saying I agree |
| 17:16.03 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 17:16.16 | romainguy | I'm just saying that if you really really really don't want to use the Java programming language, there are alternatives that may work |
| 17:16.20 | jasta | romainguy: i would imagine that the best approach would be to create a dalvik compiler for other languages, and that in particular would be troublesome without better documentation and/or source code. |
| 17:16.29 | romainguy | now to me a language is just a tool, so I really don't care |
| 17:16.49 | romainguy | jasta: there's no need to if there's already a Java bytecode compiler for the said language |
| 17:17.05 | romainguy | JRuby, Jython and Groovy know how to output Java bytecode for instance |
| 17:17.08 | romainguy | you can just dex that |
| 17:17.17 | jasta | oh, i was unaware that such a thing existed. |
| 17:17.41 | romainguy | here is a nice list of interpreters/compilers for the JVM: http://www.is-research.de/info/vmlanguages/ |
| 17:18.19 | michaelnovakjr | i don't see something like JRuby being widely used..... those ruby creators are morons |
| 17:18.38 | michaelnovakjr | java is not hard to use |
| 17:18.41 | zhobbs_ | I think down the road we'll see C apps, probably mostly UI'less ones |
| 17:18.46 | jasta | i agree with romain in general, that preference alone is an insufficient reason to need such a porting effort. |
| 17:18.52 | michaelnovakjr | yes |
| 17:19.00 | romainguy | I mean, if Java was a terrible language I'd understand |
| 17:19.08 | michaelnovakjr | what gain would JRuby give you? |
| 17:19.11 | romainguy | but it's a good language, not perfect or not the best, but still a good language |
| 17:19.15 | jasta | however, preference isn't always the reason that ports are desirable. sometimes, for example, large existing code bases are simply not available in a certain language. |
| 17:19.26 | zhobbs_ | I could see some useful C/C++ demons coming out |
| 17:19.34 | romainguy | jasta: if you need to port a "large" code base on a phone you're in trouble already :)) |
| 17:19.48 | jasta | also, the ability to micro-optimize is sometimes necessary, requiring moving back to a language that has a more subtle expressive power. |
| 17:20.32 | michaelnovakjr | there's a lot of important stuff running on Java |
| 17:21.27 | jasta | i personally see no immediate need for any of this, but i can appreciate that there are some folks who are not simply insane when wanting other options. |
| 17:22.01 | michaelnovakjr | no need at all, we should just work on a new sdk for now |
| 17:22.03 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 17:22.29 | jasta | hehe |
| 17:26.53 | jasta | man, GWT is so neat :) |
| 17:27.07 | michaelnovakjr | totally, i am using it at work |
| 17:27.07 | zhobbs_ | jasta: you been using it for real? or just playing? |
| 17:27.12 | jasta | for real |
| 17:27.19 | michaelnovakjr | setup external registration process for us using it |
| 17:27.23 | zhobbs_ | cool, just was wondering if it breaks down at some point |
| 17:27.39 | jasta | using it for a project at work, basically just whipping up some simple interface to an internal process our customer service dept goes through |
| 17:27.45 | michaelnovakjr | zhobbs_ been running here for a few months |
| 17:27.52 | michaelnovakjr | in production |
| 17:27.57 | jasta | zhobbs_: well, it certainly has limitations that are not obvious at first |
| 17:28.18 | michaelnovakjr | yea, i actually modified the source for a few parts |
| 17:28.19 | jasta | but one of the coolest things it has is a native GWT-specific RPC interface that lets you implement server-side RPC services and invoke them intuitively from the client. |
| 17:28.25 | zhobbs_ | I was just wondering if browser compatibility issues for more complex apps or other limitations, etc |
| 17:28.36 | jasta | that makes it very easy to develop some stupid throw away app in record time |
| 17:29.00 | zhobbs_ | cool, I'll have to check it out next time I need something like that |
| 17:29.04 | jasta | it doesn't feel like it's a good fit for "any web app" |
| 17:29.12 | zhobbs_ | that was the only thing I learned from the IO keynote |
| 17:29.21 | jasta | but there seems to be a certain class of apps, especially intranet type stuff, that can benefit tremendously from it |
| 17:29.29 | zhobbs_ | I had never heard of it and I was impressed during the keynote |
| 17:29.38 | michaelnovakjr | its impressive |
| 17:29.59 | jasta | again, i think the most compelling feature is the native RPC stuff. |
| 17:30.11 | michaelnovakjr | indeed |
| 17:30.16 | zhobbs_ | jasta: and that's all client javascript to java backend? |
| 17:30.17 | jasta | makes communicating between client and server very rich and intuitive, much unlike the current way that AJAX works. |
| 17:30.39 | jasta | zhobbs_: well, to the programmer it's all Java, but yes the client code is translated, where the server code remains as-is. |
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| 17:31.01 | zhobbs_ | yeah, I'll check it out |
| 17:31.10 | jasta | any translated code has to be written carefully, most of the Java library is unavailable to you on the client side. |
| 17:31.33 | zhobbs_ | I'll have to get java support on my server though..guess that's not a big deal |
| 17:33.21 | jasta | nah, just toss in tomcat |
| 17:33.39 | jasta | the GWT dev environment bundles tomcat for debug/testing, and your server environment can deploy it very easily that way |
| 17:33.51 | michaelnovakjr | ew tomact |
| 17:33.54 | michaelnovakjr | tomcat |
| 17:33.58 | jasta | like i said, i dont think its a good fit for any or possibly even most current web apps |
| 17:34.09 | jasta | well, it does not require tomcat. |
| 17:34.14 | michaelnovakjr | nope |
| 17:34.26 | michaelnovakjr | i dropped it on a server that wasn't running tomcat |
| 17:34.36 | jasta | but there certainly is a class of applications that GWT can support very well |
| 17:34.50 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: well then you didn't have the RPC stuff in use ;) |
| 17:34.57 | michaelnovakjr | no |
| 17:35.10 | zhobbs_ | can you do the ajax stuff without the rpc? |
| 17:35.29 | jasta | zhobbs_: yeah, you just need to use some other, more traditional method for communication |
| 17:35.35 | jasta | like JSON, XML, whatever. |
| 17:35.40 | zhobbs_ | oh ok |
| 17:35.43 | michaelnovakjr | the json support is cool |
| 17:35.58 | michaelnovakjr | the dom class was a big help as well |
| 17:36.02 | zhobbs_ | I asumed rpc meant xml rpc |
| 17:36.16 | michaelnovakjr | although for the version i was running i did modify the dom class |
| 17:36.24 | jasta | zhobbs_: No, their RPC approach is something they support atop all the traditional methods |
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| 17:36.58 | jasta | Particular to GWT, that is able to serialize and communicate native Java objects, with function call semantics and proxy stubs. |
| 17:37.21 | jasta | so that from either side, client or server, it appears as though you are just invoking native Java calls to a class you've defined. |
| 17:38.09 | jasta | given that GWT is open source, i suspect other platforms will create compatible clients as well |
| 17:38.15 | jasta | so that your HTTP service can be reused even outside of GWT |
| 17:48.02 | michaelnovakjr | zimbra is awesome |
| 18:01.28 | jasta | how well does it integrate with Outlook? |
| 18:09.17 | jasta | oh that's the professional version ;) |
| 18:09.22 | jasta | i looked at buying that a while ago actually |
| 18:09.25 | jasta | i hate Exchange so much :) |
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| 18:28.39 | f00f- | zimbra is bloated and takes over your entire system |
| 18:28.45 | f00f- | but it looks good :) |
| 18:28.57 | f00f- | it's free, too |
| 18:29.26 | f00f- | and i can't believe jasta just admitted he uses outlook |
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| 18:32.05 | Dougie187 | sounds like a party in here |
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| 18:32.59 | f00f- | it's about to get bumpin |
| 18:33.24 | Dougie187 | well im glad i didnt miss that. |
| 18:33.44 | f00f- | ... indeed |
| 18:47.17 | jasta | f00f-: of course i do, Outlook is a necessity in a lot of business environments. |
| 18:48.03 | jasta | however, i use vmware to access it :) |
| 18:48.30 | jasta | but it's not hard to see why Outlook and Exchange are important, even if sucky and terrible. |
| 18:49.43 | michaelnovakjr | i run my own zimbra server and it is fantastic |
| 18:49.48 | michaelnovakjr | the web interface is nice |
| 18:50.01 | michaelnovakjr | and the server is really easy to setup |
| 18:52.34 | michaelnovakjr | jasta what do you do in Outlook that you can't in thunderbird |
| 19:04.20 | jasta | calendar integration (specifically, with groupware software) |
| 19:04.46 | jasta | also, Thunderbird e-mail searches really suck, and Google Desktop for Linux is lame and irritating. |
| 19:05.31 | zhobbs_ | kmail ftw |
| 19:05.33 | Dougie187 | cant you use sunbird for the calender? |
| 19:05.57 | Dougie187 | lol can you can use gmail with imap for searching |
| 19:06.06 | michaelnovakjr | outlook mail searches suck |
| 19:06.26 | jasta | yeah, but Google Desktop is great :) |
| 19:06.34 | jasta | anyway, i'm looking through the GWT blog... |
| 19:06.48 | jasta | and i'm noticing that they post a lot, spotlighting projects or interesting things that the community is doing |
| 19:07.03 | jasta | that seems like a good format to copy for Android. |
| 19:07.42 | michaelnovakjr | sure, once there is an android |
| 19:08.05 | jasta | true enough, it's really like Android doesn't exist anymore :) |
| 19:08.09 | zhobbs_ | yeah, they didn't even update teh blog with the IO videos |
| 19:08.20 | zhobbs_ | and the advocates disapeared |
| 19:08.28 | michaelnovakjr | and this channel proves it too |
| 19:08.39 | jasta | the forums also are very quiet and not especially helpfulto anyone |
| 19:08.43 | michaelnovakjr | no one here discusses technical android stuff any more |
| 19:08.50 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 19:08.56 | Dougie187 | none of the google people are around except romainguy |
| 19:09.03 | Dougie187 | i havent seen dan in like 2 weeks |
| 19:09.06 | Dougie187 | and jason since before that |
| 19:09.50 | zhobbs_ | there's only 50 active projects |
| 19:10.11 | michaelnovakjr | i can say i am certainly not active at the moment |
| 19:15.03 | Dougie187 | i tried out invoker jasta |
| 19:15.05 | zhobbs_ | round 1 was so much better, it was my only job then...now I have to work all day and then android at night |
| 19:15.23 | muthu | zhobbs_: wonder how you manage it |
| 19:15.37 | zhobbs_ | zhobbs_: you didn't have a day job? |
| 19:15.45 | michaelnovakjr | hmmm, that sounds like my android round 1 |
| 19:15.46 | Dougie187 | i have to play games all day and cook and play games all night. |
| 19:15.49 | Dougie187 | its very tiring. |
| 19:15.56 | michaelnovakjr | work all day then go home to work on android |
| 19:16.17 | zhobbs_ | michaelnovakjr: wears you down |
| 19:16.27 | zhobbs_ | I'm sure that's how it was for most people though |
| 19:17.34 | zhobbs_ | muthu: you still in SF? |
| 19:18.07 | muthu | yeah |
| 19:18.23 | Dougie187 | till june 30th right? |
| 19:18.53 | zhobbs_ | muthu: better get back and see the family |
| 19:19.03 | Dougie187 | lol, he doesnt care about his family |
| 19:19.06 | muthu | can't wait |
| 19:19.08 | Dougie187 | all he cares about is buying a house in SF |
| 19:19.15 | muthu | now i really want to go back |
| 19:19.21 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 19:19.31 | muthu | and be with the family |
| 19:19.49 | michaelnovakjr | haha, muthu why are you in SF so long? |
| 19:20.07 | zhobbs_ | family will understand...as long as you make $275k |
| 19:20.11 | Dougie187 | he wanted to be gay for a month. |
| 19:20.16 | muthu | haha |
| 19:20.24 | Dougie187 | no better place the SF to do that. |
| 19:20.29 | muthu | i must agree, it's too long |
| 19:20.30 | Dougie187 | then* |
| 19:20.40 | michaelnovakjr | muthu, but why there so long? |
| 19:20.47 | muthu | mostly because of the airline screwup |
| 19:21.05 | muthu | these were the dates available, when i booked |
| 19:21.06 | Dougie187 | ? |
| 19:21.12 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 19:21.15 | Dougie187 | a month apart? |
| 19:21.23 | muthu | zhobbs_: oh yeah, 275 will set it right ;) |
| 19:21.33 | *** part/#android yonkeltron (n=yonkeltr@c-71-230-172-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 19:21.37 | muthu | Dougie187: yeah, india is screwed up in a lot of ways |
| 19:21.39 | *** join/#android yonkeltron (n=yonkeltr@c-71-230-172-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 19:21.46 | Dougie187 | tell me about it. |
| 19:21.49 | muthu | and the airlines are one of them |
| 19:21.59 | Dougie187 | what are the other ways? |
| 19:22.19 | zhobbs_ | muthu: you going to move to the states? |
| 19:22.29 | muthu | zhobbs_: its all open |
| 19:22.49 | muthu | it depends |
| 19:23.11 | muthu | i can't come back and work for a company |
| 19:23.38 | muthu | love startups |
| 19:24.50 | michaelnovakjr | muthu so what have you been doing all month? io was only a few days? |
| 19:24.55 | zhobbs_ | I'll be trying very hard to work for myself as soon as possible...don't have any motivation to earn money for others |
| 19:24.56 | michaelnovakjr | hanging with the sailors? |
| 19:25.27 | muthu | hehe |
| 19:25.32 | muthu | there's p2 work michaelnovakjr |
| 19:26.11 | michaelnovakjr | damn, i would have said... maybe next year IO :) thats a long time for such a short conference |
| 19:26.16 | Dougie187 | all the submissions are due soon right? |
| 19:26.18 | muthu | michaelnovakjr: what do you think p1 winners are doing? hanging with sailors ;) |
| 19:26.38 | Dougie187 | june 30th? |
| 19:26.40 | muthu | yeah due soon |
| 19:26.43 | michaelnovakjr | muthu not all of them are hanging in sf |
| 19:26.57 | zhobbs_ | Dougie187: july 28 |
| 19:26.58 | Dougie187 | yeah half way around the world for a month? |
| 19:26.59 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 19:27.00 | Dougie187 | oh |
| 19:27.04 | Dougie187 | thats a lot longer then i though |
| 19:30.07 | michaelnovakjr | muthu, should have at least went to wwdc and made a trip out of it |
| 19:30.45 | muthu | not interested in apple |
| 19:30.47 | muthu | for some reason |
| 19:31.22 | muthu | i like sergey better than steve :) |
| 19:31.28 | michaelnovakjr | would have been something to do |
| 19:32.00 | muthu | honestly now i'm bored with sf |
| 19:32.15 | michaelnovakjr | i would be too! |
| 19:32.26 | muthu | 15 days is the right timeframe |
| 19:32.29 | zhobbs_ | muthu: you been working a lot though? |
| 19:32.54 | muthu | zhobbs_: its a mix yeah |
| 19:33.16 | jasta | muthu: i told you, a month is a chore, a week or two is a vacation. |
| 19:33.22 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 19:33.25 | muthu | jasta: you were right |
| 19:33.59 | muthu | zhobbs_: you need to do a startup |
| 19:34.09 | jasta | it's like you're living there, without all the luxuries of family, friends, and stuff to keep you busy :) |
| 19:34.18 | muthu | jasta: exactly |
| 19:34.30 | zhobbs_ | muthu: I will |
| 19:34.34 | muthu | there's no place like home :) |
| 19:34.41 | muthu | zhobbs_: you can do it |
| 19:34.56 | muthu | and let me know when you do it |
| 19:35.07 | michaelnovakjr | muthu, why'd you go with this in mind? |
| 19:35.24 | jasta | muthu: what level of education do you have? that matters a lot if you intend to come to the states and get sponsored for a work visa :) |
| 19:35.39 | muthu | jasta: i have a masters here |
| 19:35.42 | zhobbs_ | muthu: after android I'll be focusing on designing niche electronic devices |
| 19:35.46 | muthu | i don't have a problem getting work here |
| 19:36.09 | muthu | zhobbs_: cool, sounds fun |
| 19:36.15 | jasta | muthu: that's only a start if you're trying to live here permanently :) |
| 19:36.23 | jasta | the US, apparently, really sucks about this. |
| 19:36.29 | michaelnovakjr | yes it does |
| 19:36.33 | muthu | jasta: i was here 10yrs then left |
| 19:36.42 | muthu | so thinking about it now, will suck bigtime for me |
| 19:36.58 | jasta | my friend Dmitri has been denied a work visa twice now, and is 6 months away from getting his masters. |
| 19:37.11 | muthu | i know, i went through all |
| 19:37.15 | jasta | the only reason he's getting it is because he was denied and had no choice. |
| 19:37.19 | jasta | muthu: you've had a work visa here? |
| 19:37.21 | muthu | i was here when there were pretty much no rules |
| 19:37.51 | muthu | i had F1 (students), H1B (work) and B1 (business) |
| 19:38.00 | muthu | you can get all kinds of visas |
| 19:38.16 | muthu | all my friends are US citizens now |
| 19:38.53 | muthu | zhobbs_: you excited about tunewiki? |
| 19:39.17 | zhobbs_ | yep |
| 19:39.28 | muthu | great |
| 19:39.34 | muthu | adding new stuff, huh ;) |
| 19:40.20 | zhobbs_ | yeah, it's coming along pretty good |
| 19:40.35 | muthu | cool |
| 19:41.49 | michaelnovakjr | are you guys working with an NDA SDK? |
| 19:41.55 | muthu | yeah |
| 19:42.19 | zhobbs_ | yeah, all top 50 are |
| 19:42.29 | zhobbs_ | don't think they have a choice |
| 19:42.37 | michaelnovakjr | i still can't get over how stupid that is |
| 19:42.47 | muthu | what? |
| 19:42.54 | michaelnovakjr | for at least two months all other developers have to wait |
| 19:43.11 | muthu | oh yeah |
| 19:43.25 | michaelnovakjr | i can't see this having a good effect on the platform |
| 19:43.44 | *** join/#android genericprodigy (n=pjlaszko@81-179-24-233.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 19:44.01 | zhobbs_ | hopefully there will be a public one out soon |
| 19:44.53 | michaelnovakjr | yea, i've so much interest that it would take some pretty cool new features to draw me back in |
| 19:45.02 | michaelnovakjr | i've lost so much interest* |
| 19:45.47 | zhobbs_ | like what? |
| 19:46.10 | michaelnovakjr | a more feature complete sdk that isn't restricting |
| 19:46.26 | muthu | brb |
| 19:52.38 | jasta | much better emulation would be a big win for me. |
| 19:52.53 | jasta | bluetooth, wi-fi, camera, etc. |
| 19:53.02 | *** join/#android borism (n=boris@195-50-199-154-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) |
| 19:55.46 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 19:55.49 | Dougie187 | i want an SDK that will make my car fly |
| 19:56.01 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 19:56.02 | genericprodigy | iPointlessSDK? |
| 19:56.14 | Dougie187 | ohh, whos this newcomer? |
| 19:56.39 | genericprodigy | Geek with opinions and sarcasm. |
| 19:56.43 | Dougie187 | cool. |
| 19:56.44 | michaelnovakjr | developer? |
| 19:57.00 | genericprodigy | Yep. |
| 19:57.10 | michaelnovakjr | good |
| 19:57.22 | michaelnovakjr | because we aren't talking about developing at the moment |
| 19:57.24 | Dougie187 | are you in the top 50? |
| 19:57.24 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 19:57.36 | Dougie187 | ohh michaelnovakjr do you play warcraft 3 at all? |
| 19:57.57 | michaelnovakjr | i've played world of warcraft... but that is about it. |
| 19:57.58 | *** join/#android matt_c_ (n=mcroydon@gozur.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 19:58.02 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 19:58.05 | Dougie187 | WoW is boring. |
| 19:58.12 | Dougie187 | i get bored with it after about 10 days |
| 19:58.23 | Dougie187 | the trial versions usually work for me. |
| 19:58.27 | Dougie187 | then i dont want to play it anymore |
| 19:58.27 | zhobbs_ | 10 days non-stop play? |
| 19:58.33 | zhobbs_ | that's how most people play it |
| 19:58.44 | michaelnovakjr | ye |
| 19:58.45 | michaelnovakjr | a |
| 19:58.59 | Dougie187 | lol no. |
| 19:59.02 | Dougie187 | 10 days, period. |
| 19:59.21 | michaelnovakjr | i changed my paypal account and then realized i still had a wow account :) |
| 19:59.26 | michaelnovakjr | when they couldn't bill me |
| 19:59.39 | Dougie187 | hah |
| 20:00.15 | michaelnovakjr | if anyone is looking to buy a MacBook Pro let me know.... i'm selling mine! |
| 20:00.32 | Dougie187 | becauase it sucks? |
| 20:00.40 | michaelnovakjr | nah |
| 20:00.47 | Dougie187 | thats why i would be selling it |
| 20:00.48 | michaelnovakjr | because i want a linux friendly laptop now |
| 20:01.42 | Dougie187 | what are you looking at? |
| 20:02.05 | michaelnovakjr | probably an xps |
| 20:02.09 | genericprodigy | Eee 901 :) |
| 20:02.15 | *** join/#android AhtiK (n=ahti@84-50-35-208-dsl.kjj.estpak.ee) |
| 20:02.35 | Dougie187 | hey michaelnovakjr if you like WoW http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/pvp/tournament/index.xml |
| 20:03.00 | michaelnovakjr | cool! |
| 20:03.12 | michaelnovakjr | i'm looking at a 13 inch laptop |
| 20:03.15 | michaelnovakjr | not a 15 anymore |
| 20:03.44 | Dougie187 | i want to get a Thinkpad r61 14.1' |
| 20:04.05 | michaelnovakjr | i had a thinkpad for a while. they aren't so bad |
| 20:04.28 | Dougie187 | i have a toshiba r10 right now |
| 20:04.30 | Dougie187 | its pretty cool |
| 20:04.40 | michaelnovakjr | what are you running on it |
| 20:05.12 | Dougie187 | ubuntu |
| 20:05.24 | michaelnovakjr | ah, i switched |
| 20:05.26 | Dougie187 | i have a dual boot though, like 8 gigs for XP. |
| 20:05.30 | Dougie187 | thats just for games though |
| 20:05.37 | michaelnovakjr | i am running mandriva now |
| 20:05.43 | michaelnovakjr | much more pleasant |
| 20:05.46 | Dougie187 | ive heard good things about mandriva |
| 20:05.53 | michaelnovakjr | its nice |
| 20:05.59 | michaelnovakjr | i am using it with xfce4 |
| 20:06.33 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 20:06.36 | Dougie187 | im using gnome. |
| 20:06.43 | Dougie187 | not really for any reason. |
| 20:06.47 | Dougie187 | sometimes i turn on compiz |
| 20:07.00 | michaelnovakjr | i use compiz and an emerald theme that i like alot |
| 20:07.08 | Dougie187 | thats cool. |
| 20:07.14 | Dougie187 | im trying to talk my mom and brother into using ubuntu |
| 20:07.15 | Dougie187 | from xp |
| 20:07.15 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 20:07.24 | Dougie187 | im trying to convert them |
| 20:07.25 | michaelnovakjr | haha, good luck! |
| 20:07.35 | Dougie187 | and my big brother is being a douche and trying to get them to stay with xp |
| 20:07.36 | michaelnovakjr | its a bit buggy for my tastes |
| 20:07.41 | Dougie187 | he just complains about OOo |
| 20:07.47 | Dougie187 | ive never had any issues. |
| 20:07.56 | Dougie187 | and compared to fedora it's a dream |
| 20:07.58 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 20:08.18 | michaelnovakjr | if i leave my ubuntu box on for a certain time period stuff stops working |
| 20:08.24 | michaelnovakjr | like audio, web browser, terminal |
| 20:08.26 | Dougie187 | thats weird. |
| 20:08.46 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 20:08.58 | michaelnovakjr | so i switched to mandriva and i haven't had any problems at all |
| 20:09.30 | Dougie187 | thats cool. |
| 20:09.49 | michaelnovakjr | totally |
| 20:09.59 | michaelnovakjr | it picked up my nvidia right off the bat |
| 20:10.01 | Dougie187 | i was looking into mandriva a while ago. |
| 20:10.04 | michaelnovakjr | when booting the live cd |
| 20:10.08 | Dougie187 | but i just stayed with ubuntu |
| 20:12.28 | *** part/#android genericprodigy (n=pjlaszko@81-179-24-233.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 20:15.04 | f00f- | jasta: yeah i am stuck with lotus notes. sometimes there is no choice :) |
| 20:15.53 | f00f- | muthu when are you going back |
| 20:25.36 | *** join/#android michaelnovakjr (n=michaeln@204.141.14.170) |
| 20:30.26 | *** join/#android zhobbs` (n=zach@132.245.8.67.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 20:32.19 | f00f- | interesting poll on LinkedIn front page |
| 20:32.31 | f00f- | so little confidence for android |
| 20:32.41 | michaelnovakjr | can you blame them |
| 20:32.55 | f00f- | wtf, i am being owned by some smell |
| 20:32.57 | f00f- | it stinks |
| 20:33.21 | f00f- | i seriously hate AC systems |
| 20:33.25 | f00f- | circulates everything |
| 20:33.34 | f00f- | yeah i was at a mobile thing last week |
| 20:33.41 | f00f- | one of the founders of linkedin was there |
| 20:33.47 | f00f- | i forget what he was talking about though |
| 20:34.09 | michaelnovakjr | i'm losing confidence in android |
| 20:34.17 | muthu | michaelnovakjr: why? |
| 20:34.25 | muthu | android is already changing the mobile world |
| 20:34.40 | michaelnovakjr | how muthu? |
| 20:34.55 | muthu | look at iphone prices now |
| 20:35.07 | muthu | this i'm sure would not happen if android is not looming over apple |
| 20:35.47 | michaelnovakjr | i don't think android is the thing apple is worried about |
| 20:36.01 | michaelnovakjr | blackberry is the reason not android |
| 20:36.48 | michaelnovakjr | i have not heard apple acknowledge android existed |
| 20:38.23 | michaelnovakjr | hey Dougie187, this is my desktop..... http://penguinsoftware.org/mydesktop.png |
| 20:38.37 | *** join/#android nowi (n=nowi@p54ADFEC5.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:39.23 | f00f- | blackberry is an untapped market |
| 20:39.32 | f00f- | definitely need to unleash something for those devices |
| 20:39.51 | f00f- | net.rim.* |
| 20:39.51 | michaelnovakjr | blackberry is the iphone competitor not android |
| 20:40.09 | jerkface03 | what? |
| 20:40.19 | michaelnovakjr | i don't think there's money to be made in android |
| 20:40.49 | michaelnovakjr | open source, free software will be the biggest selling point for android |
| 20:40.58 | muthu | michaelnovakjr: just because we hate some things that goog is doing right now, doesn't mean android had lost its value |
| 20:41.21 | *** join/#android zmedico (n=zmedico@gentoo/developer/zmedico) |
| 20:41.28 | michaelnovakjr | i'm not saying its lost value..... there's a lot of people that are saying that |
| 20:41.33 | *** join/#android nowi (n=nowi@p54ADFEC5.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:51.50 | *** join/#android naick (n=teky@cm61-18-106-243.hkcable.com.hk) |
| 20:56.42 | jasta | muthu: i would argue directly that the actions of late have lost value for Android. |
| 20:57.11 | muthu | among the developers, maybe |
| 20:57.14 | jasta | in particular, it has lost third party applications that were originally likely to come to market along with the device itself, populating their "market" store for day 1. |
| 20:57.40 | michaelnovakjr | yea, i mean i wouldn't buy a phone based on the top 50 |
| 20:57.51 | michaelnovakjr | i'd wait until more apps are out |
| 20:58.07 | muthu | probably more apps are getting built by oem's and carriers |
| 20:58.11 | donomo | it feels like android is in a lull right now |
| 20:58.12 | f00f- | lots of companies working in stealth, who couldn't be arsed to enter the ADC, fyi |
| 20:58.31 | michaelnovakjr | yes, but without the new sdk they are doing much :) |
| 20:58.32 | jasta | the argument wasn't whether value would remain, it was whether value was lost. |
| 20:58.33 | jasta | It was. |
| 20:58.49 | f00f- | whatever, it'll come back |
| 20:58.52 | donomo | goog has gone more stealthy with development, and the wait for handsets is wearing down the 'outsider' devs |
| 20:59.17 | michaelnovakjr | the 'outsider' devs are a large base of people you don't want to piss off |
| 20:59.26 | donomo | indeed |
| 20:59.35 | *** join/#android zhobbs_ (n=zach@mail.guardianmfg.com) |
| 20:59.38 | michaelnovakjr | and i think its safe to say they have |
| 21:00.17 | f00f- | the only devs they have pissed off are the folks who submitted to ADC |
| 21:00.21 | f00f- | that's a very small minority |
| 21:00.21 | muthu | another public sdk release, things would be back to normal |
| 21:00.28 | jasta | f00f-: minority in terms of wha? |
| 21:00.29 | jasta | what* |
| 21:00.43 | f00f- | in terms of the number of developers they will have once an actual phone is out |
| 21:00.55 | f00f- | many good devs are not even thinking about android now |
| 21:01.06 | f00f- | it's too much in its infancy to be nothing but a blip on the radar |
| 21:01.08 | michaelnovakjr | of course, because its a waste of time |
| 21:01.23 | f00f- | exactly, so if you piss off people now, it doesn't really matter |
| 21:01.27 | f00f- | the real people will come in once the phone is out |
| 21:01.33 | jasta | f00f-: yeah, but again, the argument here was whether google's actions of late have lost value for the platform. |
| 21:01.50 | jasta | and they have. the initial launch will suffer, i don't think you could reasonably argue otherwise. |
| 21:01.59 | f00f- | it's irrelevant. there was no value to begin with. |
| 21:02.04 | michaelnovakjr | open source projects that are stealth, that's annoying |
| 21:02.34 | *** join/#android mickrobk (n=mickrobk@c-67-173-250-134.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 21:02.51 | jasta | f00f-: I don't think I would agree. Value doesn't have to be a realized utility. |
| 21:03.00 | jasta | Hype, for example, is valuable. |
| 21:03.32 | muthu | the value can be regained by doing a public release |
| 21:03.40 | f00f- | maybe perceived value was created by the community. i don't believe google realized how much response they got to android initially. |
| 21:03.42 | michaelnovakjr | i dont think its that easy |
| 21:04.06 | zhobbs_ | jasta: will the initial launch suffer more now than if R2 participants didn't get an SDK snapshot and just had to develop for M5? |
| 21:04.47 | jasta | zhobbs_: so far, i don't think that the ADC had much to do with Google's overall marketing strategy. For example, have they done anything other than create a PDF of the winners? |
| 21:05.42 | romainguy | jasta: they haven't won yet |
| 21:05.42 | michaelnovakjr | nope |
| 21:05.42 | jasta | That's true, of course. |
| 21:05.42 | muthu | we'll know after p2 |
| 21:05.43 | jasta | When is judging supposed to be completed, anyway? |
| 21:05.52 | zhobbs_ | I agree though, why didn't theys how off more of the apps? |
| 21:05.55 | jasta | some time in August? |
| 21:06.04 | zhobbs_ | yeah, august |
| 21:06.12 | muthu | zhobbs_: really? |
| 21:06.14 | michaelnovakjr | a lot of them weren't that great |
| 21:06.37 | jasta | zhobbs_: Perhaps they are waiting until the grand prize winners are crowned, but my guess is actually that they don't see it as a useful marketing vehicle. |
| 21:06.45 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 21:07.03 | michaelnovakjr | it'll be the apps that are actually used by people that get marketed with the platform |
| 21:07.17 | jasta | Thus far, they have done a very poor job hyping the phone. Not that they have not tried, it seems like they are trying, and failing. |
| 21:07.25 | zhobbs_ | if they don't utilize the top 20 winners better than they did with top 50 then they wasted $5m |
| 21:07.32 | jasta | The demonstration at the I/O keynote, for example, did not impress me. |
| 21:07.34 | muthu | i don't think they are marketing yet |
| 21:07.44 | Dougie187 | michaelnovakjr: i love your background. |
| 21:07.46 | Dougie187 | its really cool |
| 21:07.50 | michaelnovakjr | thanks :) |
| 21:07.54 | jasta | what background? |
| 21:08.02 | michaelnovakjr | my desktop background |
| 21:08.05 | jasta | where? |
| 21:08.13 | Dougie187 | http://penguinsoftware.org/mydesktop.png |
| 21:08.19 | michaelnovakjr | ^ yea that's it |
| 21:08.21 | f00f- | your name is sergey? |
| 21:08.26 | michaelnovakjr | nope |
| 21:08.31 | michaelnovakjr | that is a status message |
| 21:08.31 | Dougie187 | i think your theme is really cool too |
| 21:08.34 | jasta | that hurts my brain |
| 21:08.39 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 21:08.40 | jasta | is that an illusion or a real photograph? |
| 21:08.42 | f00f- | ugh, you are rolling up your windows like blinds |
| 21:08.57 | Dougie187 | my bet is illusion |
| 21:09.00 | michaelnovakjr | i actually did that to show the background |
| 21:09.18 | jasta | it looks like an illusion based on the lighting, but then if you look at the clouds it's harder to tell |
| 21:09.20 | romainguy | looks like a real photograph taken as a panorama |
| 21:09.32 | michaelnovakjr | my understanding is its a real photo |
| 21:09.36 | f00f- | yeah |
| 21:09.51 | michaelnovakjr | i've seen shots of New York that make me think i live in a city that doesn't exist |
| 21:09.57 | Dougie187 | i thought it was an illusion based on the cars and lighting. |
| 21:10.09 | f00f- | romainguy: one of your shots in the m3 or m5 backgrtound... was it shot from mt. hamilton? |
| 21:10.22 | romainguy | hmm no |
| 21:10.24 | Dougie187 | I guess it could be a panorama though. |
| 21:10.32 | muthu | its not real |
| 21:10.34 | romainguy | the backgrounds in Android came from Sequoia Park |
| 21:10.38 | romainguy | and China |
| 21:10.39 | f00f- | okay |
| 21:11.03 | Dougie187 | why muthu? |
| 21:11.05 | romainguy | and to be more precise, from a small mountain village in south China |
| 21:11.14 | f00f- | ah :D |
| 21:11.15 | muthu | Dougie187: the streets are going nowhere |
| 21:11.24 | Dougie187 | have you ever heard of a dead end? |
| 21:11.33 | michaelnovakjr | what are you talking about muthu? |
| 21:11.37 | romainguy | muthu: it's just a panorama |
| 21:11.40 | Dougie187 | on the right. |
| 21:11.44 | Dougie187 | there are two streets that just end. |
| 21:11.44 | michaelnovakjr | the one in the middle stretches the whole way |
| 21:11.54 | Dougie187 | but theres still city behind it. |
| 21:11.57 | muthu | which city is that? |
| 21:12.04 | michaelnovakjr | not sure exactly |
| 21:12.13 | Dougie187 | all speculation |
| 21:12.17 | romainguy | the one on the far right splits into two other streets |
| 21:12.23 | michaelnovakjr | i stumbled across the graphic and it was nuts |
| 21:12.36 | muthu | its all superimposed |
| 21:12.47 | michaelnovakjr | now that is just silly talk |
| 21:12.49 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 21:13.05 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 21:13.08 | Dougie187 | maybe its texas. |
| 21:13.17 | Dougie187 | its flat enough. |
| 21:13.33 | michaelnovakjr | if that's texas, i think i'll move there :) |
| 21:13.47 | Dougie187 | lol. it doesnt look like that all the time... |
| 21:13.51 | Dougie187 | i hate texas actually. |
| 21:14.02 | muthu | no way close to texas |
| 21:14.12 | jasta | texas is a good guess, actually. |
| 21:14.25 | muthu | its europse |
| 21:14.26 | romainguy | this photo? |
| 21:14.29 | romainguy | Texas? |
| 21:14.31 | muthu | europe* |
| 21:14.32 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 21:14.34 | romainguy | with these buildings?? |
| 21:14.37 | f00f- | heh |
| 21:14.37 | romainguy | seriously guys... |
| 21:14.46 | Dougie187 | what city romainguy? |
| 21:14.52 | Dougie187 | i mean muthu |
| 21:14.53 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 21:14.53 | Dougie187 | ... |
| 21:14.54 | jasta | romainguy: where would you guess? |
| 21:15.00 | romainguy | it looks a lot like Europe |
| 21:15.20 | Dougie187 | where in europe? |
| 21:15.21 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 21:15.27 | Dougie187 | thats a rather broad guess. |
| 21:15.27 | romainguy | that I don't know |
| 21:15.29 | jasta | yeah, but everyone is driving on the right side. |
| 21:15.32 | Dougie187 | im gonna say Australia |
| 21:15.44 | Dougie187 | maybe Asia |
| 21:15.48 | romainguy | jasta: so? |
| 21:16.03 | michaelnovakjr | there are places in europe that don't drive on the left |
| 21:16.14 | romainguy | omg |
| 21:16.16 | Dougie187 | any that have buildings like this? |
| 21:16.24 | jasta | i dont think any that would look like this |
| 21:16.24 | romainguy | Dougie187: certainly not Asia |
| 21:16.28 | michaelnovakjr | omg.? |
| 21:16.29 | Dougie187 | lol i know |
| 21:16.30 | Dougie187 | it was a joke. |
| 21:16.32 | jasta | in particular guys, look to the far left. |
| 21:16.41 | jasta | on the railing |
| 21:16.42 | Dougie187 | because Europe is a ridiculous guess. |
| 21:16.48 | romainguy | jasta: people drive on the right in Europe... except in England |
| 21:16.50 | Dougie187 | yeah i saw the railing thing. |
| 21:17.11 | jasta | well, i suppose this is a riddle for the channel |
| 21:17.28 | Dougie187 | heh michaelnovakjr did you think your background would invoke such conversation? |
| 21:17.32 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 21:18.01 | romainguy | ah dog |
| 21:18.02 | romainguy | doh |
| 21:18.04 | romainguy | I feel stupid |
| 21:18.07 | romainguy | it's fucking Paris |
| 21:18.10 | muthu | haha |
| 21:18.14 | f00f- | that's what i was thinking |
| 21:18.14 | muthu | that's what i thought |
| 21:18.19 | Dougie187 | hey romainguy, how do the roads work going from england to other countries? |
| 21:18.19 | f00f- | arrondisement style streets |
| 21:18.21 | muthu | somewhere in france |
| 21:18.31 | romainguy | Dougie187: England is an island |
| 21:18.36 | muthu | romainguy_: how can you miss this? |
| 21:18.48 | f00f- | loo |
| 21:18.56 | romainguy | there's teh freaking arche de la défense in the background |
| 21:19.04 | romainguy | the picture is just taken on place de l'étoile |
| 21:19.06 | Dougie187 | touche. |
| 21:19.14 | romainguy | muthu: cause I hate Paris :)) |
| 21:19.17 | f00f- | yeah |
| 21:19.44 | Kraln | nothing wrong with paris |
| 21:19.48 | Kraln | except the people who inhabit it |
| 21:19.55 | Dougie187 | either way, after a rather strong whiskey sour i think its time to play some dota. |
| 21:19.55 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 21:19.56 | Kraln | I much prefer Lyons |
| 21:20.02 | f00f- | romainguy: have you been down on 880 a bit south of SJC... there's a structure (i call it the Dolby Noise Reduction building since it looks like the NR logo), and it looks a lot like the l'arc de la defense |
| 21:20.07 | michaelnovakjr | i love that Dougie187 |
| 21:20.14 | Dougie187 | dota? |
| 21:20.17 | Dougie187 | or whikey sours? |
| 21:20.27 | michaelnovakjr | how do the roads in england connect to other countries? |
| 21:20.31 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 21:20.36 | Dougie187 | its the whiskey sour talking. |
| 21:20.46 | f00f- | michaelnovakjr: they dont... |
| 21:20.48 | romainguy | f00f-: I don't remember seeing this building |
| 21:20.51 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 21:20.59 | Dougie187 | f00f-: he was quoting me |
| 21:21.03 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 21:21.14 | Dougie187 | (05:18:19 PM) Dougie187: hey romainguy, how do the roads work going from england to other countries? |
| 21:21.52 | Dougie187 | romainguy has all the answers. |
| 21:22.30 | Dougie187 | well, you can tell its a panoramic too, just because of the station wagon in the right side. |
| 21:22.35 | Dougie187 | its "ghosted" |
| 21:22.47 | Dougie187 | like a poorly put together panoramin |
| 21:22.55 | michaelnovakjr | Arc de Triomphe |
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| 21:23.07 | Dougie187 | now thats just jibberish. |
| 21:23.16 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 21:23.19 | michaelnovakjr | that is where it is |
| 21:23.22 | Dougie187 | heh, brb |
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| 21:24.49 | michaelnovakjr | From the top there is a panoramic view of Paris |
| 21:24.58 | michaelnovakjr | straight out of wikipedi |
| 21:24.59 | michaelnovakjr | a |
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| 21:26.14 | Dougie187 | now its time for dota |
| 21:27.03 | Dougie187 | lol a noobs only game. |
| 21:28.40 | Dougie187 | jasta: im invoker just for you. |
| 21:28.41 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 21:28.49 | muthu | hey, walmart cheaper than target? |
| 21:28.56 | muthu | need to get some shopping done |
| 21:28.59 | muthu | for family |
| 21:29.01 | michaelnovakjr | walmart === cheap |
| 21:29.11 | muthu | walmart, costco, target |
| 21:29.14 | muthu | that's what we have here |
| 21:29.28 | michaelnovakjr | costco is membership |
| 21:29.46 | muthu | but is it cheaper than walmart? |
| 21:30.06 | michaelnovakjr | no |
| 21:30.08 | Dougie187 | depends. but you need a membership to get in. |
| 21:30.10 | muthu | heard generally you can buy in walmart blindly |
| 21:30.12 | michaelnovakjr | at least not by me |
| 21:30.18 | michaelnovakjr | yes muthu |
| 21:30.22 | muthu | cool |
| 21:30.27 | michaelnovakjr | walmart is the cheapest i've found |
| 21:30.33 | muthu | great |
| 21:30.48 | michaelnovakjr | http://penguinsoftware.org/chicago.jpg |
| 21:30.56 | michaelnovakjr | that is also a pretty nutty photo |
| 21:31.00 | Kraln | muthu: walmart is cheaper than target |
| 21:31.09 | Kraln | but shopping at walmart is basically soulless |
| 21:31.29 | muthu | Kraln: yeah, but i don't want to be comparing prices |
| 21:31.38 | Kraln | walmart isn't the cheapest |
| 21:31.44 | muthu | which one then? |
| 21:31.50 | Kraln | they did market research to figure out what are the 8 items that most people will remember the price on |
| 21:32.05 | Kraln | young men, young women, middle aged men, middle aged women, old men, old women |
| 21:32.11 | Kraln | and they made those 48 items loss leaders |
| 21:32.18 | Kraln | and everything else is pretty expensive by comparison |
| 21:32.24 | muthu | oh |
| 21:32.36 | Kraln | what are you shopping /for/ |
| 21:32.48 | muthu | let me pull out the list |
| 21:32.51 | muthu | mostly kids items |
| 21:33.17 | muthu | coloring set, school bag, educational toys |
| 21:33.33 | Kraln | sounds like toys 'r us to me |
| 21:33.38 | muthu | right |
| 21:33.47 | muthu | hand bag, perfume, makeup |
| 21:33.53 | Kraln | plus I don't have any ethical problems with toys r us. |
| 21:34.02 | Kraln | I think you need to find a mall with a toys 'r us near by |
| 21:34.10 | muthu | there's one very close |
| 21:34.16 | muthu | and i'm buying all toys there |
| 21:34.28 | muthu | what about diamond jewellery? |
| 21:34.31 | muthu | where to get that? |
| 21:34.51 | Kraln | honestly? the internet. =p |
| 21:35.02 | muthu | yeah, but i don't have time to order and wait |
| 21:35.14 | Kraln | well you're going to get gouged on convienience |
| 21:35.24 | muthu | right |
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| 21:35.45 | muthu | internet might not be bad |
| 21:35.50 | muthu | may be that's what i should do |
| 21:35.58 | muthu | still time left |
| 21:36.09 | muthu | Kraln: any website for diamond jewellery? |
| 21:36.19 | Kraln | off the top of my head? no |
| 21:36.26 | Kraln | shop around though. you can definitely save some $$$ |
| 21:36.32 | muthu | ok |
| 21:36.33 | Kraln | amazon sometimes has good deals |
| 21:36.42 | muthu | ok, i'll google |
| 21:39.26 | muthu | wow, 50% off |
| 21:42.20 | Kraln | I'm not suprised =) |
| 21:42.45 | muthu | online is the best place |
| 21:42.53 | muthu | Kraln: thanks |
| 21:45.03 | Dougie187 | jasta: your right about exort. |
| 21:45.06 | Dougie187 | :( |
| 21:48.51 | jasta | privmsg |
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| 22:18.54 | jasta | playing with all this google stuff is really interesting. |
| 22:18.57 | jasta | gears, gwt, etc |
| 22:19.08 | jasta | i think gears especially is very cool |
| 22:19.18 | jasta | i'm excited to see what people do with web apps on Gears. |
| 22:19.25 | jasta | err, mobile web apps i mean |
| 22:21.45 | zhobbs | wonder if they will release gears for mobile for other platforms? |
| 22:22.06 | jasta | they already released windows mobile, i assume they have plans to support every platform that can be supported. |
| 22:22.14 | zhobbs | oh, cool |
| 22:35.31 | muthu | mobile web apps + gears will be interesting |
| 22:35.59 | jasta | still inferior to native apps, i think, but at least a big step up from current web apps on mobile phones |
| 22:41.42 | muthu | jasta: you can't compare with native apps |
| 22:42.13 | muthu | but the gap might be bridged just like desktop/webapps |
| 22:44.20 | jasta | the next big step would be to optimize the language itself. HTML and JavaScript are all wrong for mobile devices. |
| 22:45.29 | jasta | efficiently compressed HTML and a JavaScript bytecode are both necessary to improve the situation. |
| 22:45.36 | jasta | as in, not just gzipped HTML :) |
| 22:45.42 | muthu | it depends on browser |
| 22:45.43 | jasta | similar to Android's binary XML format |
| 22:45.50 | muthu | the mobile browsers must get smart |
| 22:46.23 | jasta | the efficiency of HTML and JS are big bottlenecks that the browser, however efficient, cannot overcome. |
| 22:46.56 | muthu | need to think different for mobile |
| 22:47.02 | jasta | neither lend themselves well to poor network connections, slow processors, and limited memory. |
| 22:47.30 | muthu | isn't there some mobile web standard |
| 22:47.41 | jasta | yes, WAP and WbXML |
| 22:48.07 | jasta | the former is a miserable failure, the latter is only just a failure :) |
| 22:48.43 | jasta | the basic problem with both is that they are not generalized encodings of what the desktop is used to processing. |
| 22:49.07 | jasta | a javascript bytecode and formalized efficient encodings for HTML and XHTML would go a long way. |
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| 22:50.51 | muthu | its again because of browser wars i guess |
| 22:51.06 | Kraln | not really |
| 22:51.14 | Kraln | the browers represent the page differently internally |
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| 22:51.32 | muthu | every browser has it own thing |
| 22:52.20 | muthu | is webkit / webview going to be the mobile browser standard |
| 22:53.02 | Kraln | no |
| 22:53.08 | Kraln | opera and firefox both have mobile browsers |
| 22:53.47 | muthu | that's the problem |
| 22:53.57 | muthu | again browser wars and developers caught in between |
| 22:57.36 | jasta | really, that's not the biggest problem. |
| 22:57.41 | jasta | Gears solved one of the big problems. |
| 22:57.49 | jasta | But still, the bigger one is the efficiency of HTML and JS. |
| 22:57.58 | jasta | the bigger one remaining, i should say. |
| 22:58.00 | muthu | gears solved only the storage problem |
| 22:58.07 | jasta | Gears solved more than that. |
| 22:58.09 | muthu | not the view problem that webapps face |
| 22:58.21 | muthu | is gwt available for mobile? |
| 22:58.40 | jasta | Gears also offers a fork analog, which can be used to do background caching and all sorts of other goodies. |
| 22:58.46 | jasta | windows mobile only |
| 22:58.59 | jasta | web apps being rendered correctly on mobile phones is an easy problem space. |
| 22:59.03 | muthu | if we can use gwt + gears |
| 22:59.44 | jasta | you're not listening, GWT imposes pretty heavy JavaScript overhead, a language which is quite slow to interpret or JIT compile. |
| 22:59.54 | jasta | and HTML is bad as well. |
| 23:00.01 | muthu | brb |
| 23:00.38 | jasta | given the limited real-estate of mobile phones, it's very simple to create a good user interface with almost no significant layout or markup. Single column designs work *great*. |
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| 23:01.07 | jasta | but HTML and JS are inefficient bottlenecks. |
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| 23:01.57 | Kraln | jasta: the opera web browser proxies everything so it gets pre-rendered. |
| 23:03.11 | rosh11821 | how pervasive is copy+paste in Android? |
| 23:05.52 | jasta | rosh11821: uhh? |
| 23:06.15 | jasta | Kraln: i'm not sure eactly what you mean, but the problem space isn't any different based on the time you render or compile. |
| 23:06.28 | jasta | it still is an expensive operation when it doesnt have to be. |
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| 23:06.35 | Kraln | -1this is true |
| 23:06.56 | Kraln | I agree. but they simplify the on-device browser to essentially a vector viewer iirc |
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| 23:22.02 | jasta | ultimately, web apps could become very neatly integrated with mobile devices, but it will require a lot of standards work to get there |
| 23:22.12 | jasta | and that is traditionally something that happens very slowly |
| 23:22.43 | jasta | Gears, I think, is an excellent first step, practically demonstrating the benefit of this type of integration. |
| 23:23.18 | muthu | jasta: gears has nothing to do with mobile |
| 23:23.28 | jasta | you're quite wrong, muthu. |
| 23:23.54 | muthu | gears is for developing ria |
| 23:24.02 | muthu | RIA |
| 23:24.37 | jasta | Gears is for cooperating with the client's native resources. |
| 23:25.01 | jasta | Including the natural extension to contacts, location, etc. |
| 23:25.02 | muthu | you always give the longer explanation, that no one reads |
| 23:26.20 | jasta | If you're interested in what could be possible, see: http://code.google.com/p/gears/wiki/GeolocationAPI as an example |
| 23:27.29 | jasta | The idea is that native applications have certain advantages at the edges, like access to local resources and platform-specific APIs. |
| 23:27.51 | jasta | Gears ultimately is trying to even the playing field so that web apps, enabled with Gears, can have the same level of access on the device that is hosting the app. |
| 23:28.09 | muthu | RIA |
| 23:28.41 | muthu | similar to flash/silverlight etc., |
| 23:29.08 | muthu | gears is only focussed on the client storage though |
| 23:29.34 | f00f- | we dont know enough about gears to really talk about it |
| 23:29.57 | jasta | Well, considering I have been looking at it for the past several days, I'd say I can :) |
| 23:30.57 | muthu | f00f-: are you saying you don't know enough? |
| 23:31.09 | muthu | or jasta doesn't know ;) |
| 23:31.55 | jasta | muthu, what gives you the confidence that you understand Gears so well? Have you, for example, used it on a project? Explored the documentation? Scoured the forums? |
| 23:32.34 | muthu | http://www.slideshare.net/intellibitz/gears-user-guide/ |
| 23:32.40 | muthu | that was done 1 year ago |
| 23:32.50 | muthu | when gears came out |
| 23:32.51 | jasta | And is that your basis for education? |
| 23:33.20 | jasta | Because I'm seeing a lot of things that, right now, could be possible. And have read about where some of the engineers are trying to take the project in the future. |
| 23:33.56 | jasta | And specifically, how they want it to integrate with the mobile space to create applications that feel native to the user, with access to local resources like location awareness. |
| 23:34.47 | muthu | i've worked with gears, gwt |
| 23:34.54 | muthu | etc., as soon as they have come |
| 23:35.01 | muthu | just like android ;) |
| 23:35.29 | f00f- | well none of us have developed anything using gears |
| 23:35.30 | muthu | now i just focus on android more, since its on the mobile space and seems to fit my interest like a "glove" |
| 23:35.32 | muthu | :0 |
| 23:35.43 | muthu | s/0/)/g |
| 23:36.02 | muthu | f00f-: haha |
| 23:36.04 | f00f- | s/infobot//g |
| 23:36.10 | muthu | you have become more like me these days ;) |
| 23:36.35 | f00f- | hehe |
| 23:36.48 | muthu | wanted to create some sort of userguide for android |
| 23:36.53 | muthu | but now i don't think i can |
| 23:37.37 | f00f- | how come? |
| 23:37.45 | f00f- | (apart from the obvious reasons) |
| 23:38.27 | muthu | oh yeah the obvious ones |
| 23:38.45 | muthu | m5 is old |
| 23:41.49 | f00f- | yea |
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